To Train Up a Child: The Tragic Story of Hana Alemu

Hana and her adoptive brother, Immanuel, were brought from Ethiopia into what was supposed to be a loving home, but they instead found themselves in an abusive environment of isolation, starvation, and cruel punishment. Perhaps the warning signs were too subtle, because no interventions came in time to prevent the unimaginable tragedy that unfolded in May 2011. Far too often abuse is only exposed in hindsight. Larry and Carri Williams appeared to be a kind, wholesome couple devoted to raising their family in Sedro-Woolley, Washington. But behind closed doors, their strict fundamentalist Christian beliefs and harsh parenting practices would lead to a horrifying case of abuse, ultimately resulting in Hana’s tragic death.

In this episode, we examine the rise of the homeschooling movement particularly in fundamentalist Christian homes, the influence of controversial child-rearing books like To Train Up a Child, as well as some of the troubling adoption practices that led us here. Hana’s death laid bare the dangers of abusive parenting ideologies and the failures in adoption oversight. She endured years of mistreatment before her body sadly succumbed to the persistent abuse that she had already endured for years at the Williams family’s rural home.

What red flags were ignored along the way? Can justice ever truly be served? Join us as we uncover the heartbreaking story of abuse, control, and religious extremism that devastated a community.

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us at [e-mail] or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The tactics espoused in fundamentalist Christian child-waring books such as,

(00:05):
"To train up a child, written by Michael and Debbie Pearl, are plastered all over the
Internet if you care to look."
However, if you find violence against children, even those too young to walk,
upsetting, you do well to maybe steer clear.
They are very detailed instructions for every stage of development,

(00:28):
and very specific about the types and level of corporal punishment that should be issued to children.
Damn, dude.
Hi, Cassie.
Hi, Caitlyn.
Hi, creepy people.
Oh, hello.
If you're not watching us, we are on location.

(00:48):
You almost said in location.
In location.
On the location.
Bear is seeing.
We are in a secret location in the PNW.
If you can't tell by the trees.
Yeah.
Yep.
Oh, by the way, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides.
Where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, I don't know, occasionally some other stuff as well.

(01:13):
In the Pacific Northwest.
Also that.
Or the PNW if you're nasty.
If you're nasty.
If you're nasty.
Are you nasty?
If you're nothing, get out of here.
Yeah.
Bye.
You probably don't want to stay just ahead.
Yeah, you should go.
Spoiler alert.
It's going to get real weird for you.

(01:33):
What else do we do?
We do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic.
I forget to say if you're nasty, you forget to tell the tarot thing.
It's a yes.
What we do here.
Yeah.
It's a little ebb and flow.
Give and take.
Oh, man.
Okay.
Are you ready for this?

(01:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, one.
I would recommend keeping it close.
I'm prepared.
Maybe I need a little puppy dog to snuggle me.
Oh, she's off doing her own thing.
This is um,
this is a new one.
It's good.
Semiseko.
Whatever that means.
Semiseko.

(02:16):
I'm more than semi approved.
Easy loaded.
We have fun here.
It's a late reaction by me.
Yeah.
Well, that's all the fun we're about to have.
Yeah, pretty much.
Yeah.
No, from here on out, it's going to be pretty bleak.

(02:38):
So,
I can't think of any business that we have that could possibly delay this.
So, I guess we just get into it.
Yeah, let's do it.
Everything.
I'm ready.
All right.
We're just going to go ahead and we're
keeping an eye on our InstaCart order though as well.
Three out of four items.
Shopped.

(02:58):
That's right.
We InstaCarted four items.
Four items.
Because you know what?
This relates because we have been drinking.
So, we refuse to drive.
Responsible.
We talked about this recently.
I was just going to say.
Don't do that.
Even if it's four items.

(03:18):
InstaCart.
That bitch.
Yeah.
I don't think the item number is what is of concern.
But, but moving on.
Larry and Carrie Williams,
a seemingly happily married
Cedro Wolley couple,
lived with their family in the community known as
the gateway to the Cascades.

(03:40):
Oh, that sounds nice.
Yeah.
Quoting the official Cedro Wolley website,
the city is located on the western edge
of the majestic Cascade mountain range
in Northwest Washington.
Oh, we've talked about like a haunted hospital
there before or something.

(04:01):
Something haunted.
I knew there was something we had talked about.
Yeah.
Okay.
I remember having to look up how to pronounce that.
Well, but did you know this?
Fun fact.
When it was incorporated,
it combined the names of two neighboring towns.
Cedro and Wolley.
I don't think I knew that.
Learned something new every day.

(04:22):
There's a different thread.
You got to pull every time you research something.
Yeah.
I was midway through my research when I was like,
is there anything that, I don't know, maybe anything that just
isn't a complete and total bummer?
Oh.
But you can look up.
Yeah, there it is.
Yeah.

(04:43):
You found it.
Thank you.
The city is north of Seattle, south of Bellingham,
and a hell of a long way from Ethiopia.
Yeah.
That's the African nation from which the couple would eventually adopt
two children in 2008, Emanual and Hana.
In the mid to late 2000s, as the couple was bringing up their own family,

(05:08):
there was a conservative Christian,
read as a K.A. fundamentalist, homeschooling trend.
Particularly amongst larger families.
Many of those already large families also went on to adopt more children,
frequently from abroad.

(05:29):
The African continent proved popular amongst adoptees.
Adoption, especially from abroad, was seen as an extension of the ministry, ostensibly.
That's the icky part that I'm making faces at a little bit.
A little bit.
It makes me think that the Spanish Inquisition meets just run of the mill, colonialism.

(05:57):
Like, why can't you just adopt to give someone a better life and be
who their own person?
Like, what do your own person have the best life you can add to your own person
without me putting all my beliefs on you?
What a novel idea.
I hate that there were these weird tangential things that felt like

(06:20):
sort of these like touchstone type things that I was like, "Oh,
that feels like directly tied to me somehow."
But I'm not trying to make this about me, but it was like all of these things that like have
a significance in some like former fashion.
And I was like, "Oh, you just shatter over it."

(06:40):
Oh, man.
Oh, no.
So here's the first one.
Okay.
Above rubies, you know, just casually, my birthstones.
I was like, "Wait, no, rubies my birthstone. That's cancer."
Oh, it's July.
Right, July.
That's right.
I get it.
I always get it confused.

(07:01):
Yeah.
It goes by month.
Yes.
Yeah, we have the same birthstone.
How cute.
Are we so cute?
We're both rubies.
This is also about me, you guys.
Yes.
I mean, isn't it always?
Above rubies was a fundamentalist women's ministry.
Actually, still appears to be.

(07:22):
They have a website that has been said to have inspired not just carry
Williams, but many others to seek out adoptions, notably specifically in Africa,
from the African continent.
I don't like that either.
Any kid that needs help from anywhere.

(07:45):
Why does it specifically need to be from Africa?
Are you African, is that why?
Or, no.
Well, no, but how would anyone know that I adopted this child if they weren't
so clearly different from me?
I've adopted this accessory child.
Right.
Well, they're starving children in Africa.

(08:06):
Yeah.
That's the only place.
It's the Birken bag of adopted babies.
Hi.
The group is anecdotally linked to a surge in adoptions, specifically from Liberia.
More than a few with seemingly less than ideal, and in some cases, even disastrous consequences.

(08:27):
I'm thinking of the family that adopted and like the car.
Yes.
The Hart family.
Yes, thank you.
I was like, I know I know the name, but
yeah, I know, but it almost seems like
it's kind of cruel irony that
heart is the last name.

(08:48):
No.
But yeah, your head just doesn't want to go there, I think.
Getting back to the Williams' in 2008, they decided to adopt
and begin looking into adoption agencies.
Of course, they might have had some reticence about the first one that crossed their path,
because it was
secular.

(09:10):
What does that mean?
Non-religious.
Oh, okay.
I've heard them term, but I...
Yeah, you're like, I guess I just live my whole life not actually knowing what that is.
Yeah.
I am secular.
Sectacular.
I'm kind of here for that.

(09:37):
Roughly a decade has passed since the A.A.I.
adoption advocate's international was shuttered.
I'm not going to dive deep on the organization for now at least, but given the time for additional
research, I wouldn't say it's out of the question for the future.
Put it on the shelf for now.

(09:58):
We're not going to put a pin in it.
No, have you ever heard this?
Put it on the shelf.
Put it on the shelf.
This is a religious shelf.
Oh, no.
Why is that a religious thing?
My understanding, because this is not something that I actually have been directly told in my

(10:20):
upbringing, but whenever you have something that sort of makes you question your faith,
that makes you question the teachings, they say, put it on the shelf.
Like to think about later or just to like not ever think about it again.
You forget.
Yep, that one is kind of the idea, I think.
You put it on the shelf.

(10:41):
Any reservations that you might have, so that you can continue to observe your faith.
Faithfully.
Yeah, just don't think about it.
It's fine.
Yeah, I wouldn't think too hard.
In 2008, it was thanks to the A.A.I.
that the Williams is were matched with a deaf Ethiopian child in need of an adoptive family

(11:03):
unstable home.
It's a lot to take on.
Certainly not for the faint of heart, but for the Williams'es, their faith implored them to move
ahead.
Or maybe it was the fact that prior to their marriage and the birth of their seven children since,
Kerry had actually studied American Sign Language with plans of becoming a Sign Language interpreter.

(11:26):
Okay, well, that seems very helpful.
It seems like that would be a good skill set for
that particular adoption.
Well, it's sounding better.
Yeah.
It seems that once the couple started their family, however, that dream fell by the wayside,
that being the dream of becoming an interpreter.

(11:47):
Oh, okay.
I mean, you know, once you have seven children,
kids are hard to do.
And though the couple have been gifted blessings aplenty, their union had indeed been quite
fruitful. Carry had wanted more children.
Unfortunately, the couple would learn that complications related to her previous pregnancies

(12:08):
had left her unable to have additional biological children.
I mean, that sucks, but I mean, at a certain point, I think that is certainly a risk you run.
She had children or she did.
I think the couple had seven children at their own.
Yes.
Quite a few.
And I mean, my heart goes out to anybody that wants to have children or wants to have more children

(12:32):
and they can't, but my goodness, you know, what are you trying to get a TLC show?
I mean, maybe.
Yeah, maybe.
But you know, when they say, when God closes a door, He opens a window.
I've heard that before.
No.
AI tells me that this saying when God closes the door, He opens a window,

(12:54):
is a popular comforting phrase often used to suggest that even when things seem to go wrong,
new opportunities and possibilities will emerge.
This is considered an adage rather than a proverb because a proverb typically gives and I quote,
practical advice on how to live and behave.

(13:15):
Yeah.
That's the, you know, the biblical thing.
They've got the whole section about it.
Yeah, yeah, proverbs.
What if God closes a window and opens like a basement door or something like that?
Yeah, it just pulls like the, you know, old uno-reverse.
Yeah.
The light doesn't work.
Yeah.
What then?

(13:35):
Good question.
Whereas an adage expresses accepted wisdom, but does not always come in the form of advice.
So it's basically just like a thing that we say.
That means nothing.
Well, I was just going to say another famous example of an adage.
One might use this love is blind.

(13:58):
Many of us agree that's, you know, commonly accepted wisdom to some degree.
It's one example.
Okay.
Love, lie.
Use love, lie.
Anybody watch that?
Anybody watch that?
Yeah.
But, you know, the difference being that a proverb, it's, you know,
by virtue, it's a little more preachy because it's actually giving specific advice.

(14:22):
Okay.
Anyways, I thought I just, I went, that was the other rabbit hole.
Okay.
That's the light in this dark tunnel.
Each of these turns of phrase are likely to elicit a wide range of thoughts and emotions
in the context of adopting a child, particularly one that might have a disability.

(14:43):
Perhaps even more so when adopting not just the one, but two, in fact.
As nearly any prospective adoptive couple would,
Carrie and Larry jumped through the litany of necessary hoops with the adoption agency.
The now former director of social services for A.A.I.

(15:07):
stated that prospective adoptees would be disqualified
for admitting their parenting practices included spanking.
Okay.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
How long ago was this dating back to 2007, 2008, roughly?
Okay.
I feel like that's almost about the time we're spanking became like, oh, y'all don't do that.

(15:32):
I don't really.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
I'm not saying that that's wrong, but yeah.
But I guess it's fair to say that both Carrie and Larry likely omitted their own beliefs and
practices from any application forms and conversations they held related to their adoption.
Of Emmanuel and Hannah.

(15:53):
Oh, so you're saying they were spankers, but they did not admit to it.
As previously alluded to, Carrie and Larry held and practiced
fundamentalist Christian beliefs.
Every couple household and family should have the freedom to decide what ideology guides their lives,
but when it comes to actual practice.

(16:16):
Unfortunately, we step into some problematic territory.
For argument's sake, let's say that you've set aside the fact that the guiding principles of
fundamentalist sex of Christianity reduce women to objects.
Let's just say that doesn't bother you somehow.
Or, you know, if your rose-colored glasses are handy, more generously, one might view them as vessels

(16:42):
created for the sole purpose of subjugation and obedience to first and foremost, of course, God.
Swifferly followed by their fathers and then, of course, eventually later, their husbands.
Also, other male relatives all along the way.
Pretty much any man before your own self is in charge of you.

(17:04):
Correct.
Yes.
Got it.
Got it.
The tactics espoused in fundamentalist Christian child-waring books such as
"To train up a child, written by Michael and Debbie Pearl are plastered all over the internet if you
care to look."
However, if you find violence against children, even those too young to walk,

(17:26):
upsetting, you do well to maybe steer clear.
Oh.
This is like instructions, like abusive instructions?
Yes.
They are very detailed instructions for every stage of development.
And very specific about the types and level of corporal punishment that should be issued

(17:53):
to children.
Damn, dude.
In subreddits discussing the couple, the book, and their ministry,
you don't need to go beyond the first page of comments to feel your heart literally break inside.
The BBC released a piece entitled "Child Training Book Triggers Back Clash,"

(18:14):
which is not only fair to say, but perhaps a frontrunner for the understatement of 2013,
the year in which it was published.
Well, I'm glad it caused some sort of backlash and everyone wasn't just like, "Yeah, sure.
Let's... yeah, that sounds good."
Yeah.
I think, unfortunately, the backlash is already being felt, being seen,
heard in groups that would never enact these types of behaviors.

(18:40):
Right.
Sort of an echo chamber situation, but people are still like taking this and using it.
I don't know that I have come across a super recent case, but anybody who
doesn't have a complete utter aversion to hearing about investigating in terms of

(19:04):
true crime against children has come across this book.
Everyone, anyone, all of them, it feels like it's part of the canon.
The pearls-owned children appear to stand behind the lifelong work of their parents and are
themselves involved in the ministry.
The nonprofit No Greater Joy Ministries employed 18 people dating back to 2006.

(19:29):
Truth be told, however, the organization was David compared to Goliath-level Christian media companies,
such as Big Idea Entertainment, formerly known as Big Idea Productions,
and also the Media Production Company responsible for Veggie Tales.
Oh, interesting.

(19:50):
And now we get to the part of my research where I began to feel targeted.
One of many times that I began to feel targeted.
Do you want Veggie Tales?
Oh, yeah.
And they mentioned Carmen, and yes, I have consumed quite a bit of the Carmen media as a child.

(20:13):
I don't know what that is.
Yeah.
I was not a Veggie Taylor.
Yeah.
There's like a brief moment in time where I went to church,
like we listened to Veggie Tales on the way there, but that was it, and I was not.
Apparently there was a Veggie Tales show up until about 2022.

(20:34):
Oh, yeah.
Doesn't appear to be currently running.
Which, listen, you know, religious programming in and of itself, not necessarily problematic.
Right. Veggie Tales, I spend years, obviously.
I don't think that most of their programming was particularly problematic, but I don't quote me on that.

(21:00):
I'm not.
I don't know.
I literally know, Clue.
There could have been so much like messaging in their hidden.
Like that we just--
It's based on the Bible.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Hopefully it was just wholesome, you know, for kids.
I'm sure it was.
Oh.
Again, dating back to 2006, reportedly the pearls had sold or donated to churches,

(21:24):
military families, and community groups, more than a million copies of their works in various formats.
So we're talking about CDs, DVDs, books, all that.
As well as other materials related to the Christian family.
Their bi-monthly newsletter had 74,000 subscribers at the time.

(21:47):
That's quite a few.
Yeah.
Just the year prior back in 2005, no greater joy ministries represented a mere fraction of the
7.3--
My brain broke.
Billion.
Billion.
Did you say billion with a B?

(22:07):
Billion.
Billion.
Religious, publishing, and products market.
And that was 20 years ago.
Oh.
Now that they just will let any old evangelist into the White House directly, I can only imagine.
Anywho.
All of this is to say that when it comes to power dynamics within our society and the money that

(22:32):
there is to be made, even when it comes at the expense of others, some forces seem nearly
unstoppable once they gain a foothold.
Typical, fundamentalist Christian beliefs had more than just a foothold in the Williams household
by this time.
It wasn't long after they had decided to adopt a manual that the couple would be shown a video

(22:55):
that would change their own lives and countless others.
In the video, it said that Hannah was tearful but appeared healthy and the couple
were moved to seek her out for adoption as well.
Both Immanuel and Hannah came to the Williams family via an A.A.I.
affiliated orphanage in Ethiopia called Kadeen Merrett.

(23:18):
Both children were reportedly abandoned likely due to their health issues.
Oh, I mean, that's so hard.
If you can't take care of the health issues, you know, what do you?
Yeah.
What do you do?
Yeah, I'm not sure what that looks like in other nations.

(23:40):
I know that obviously we have like the firehouse laws where you can literally leave a
a baby at a fire station, at a hospital and, you know, no questions asked.
And as long as you surrender the child safely, that is a-okay in the eyes of the law.

(24:00):
I don't know what that looks like in a lot of other countries.
Yeah.
I would assume that a lot of other countries have some
former fashion of a similar practice.
But it is really hard to hear about children that are being abandoned because presumably
health issues or I mean really just hard to hear about kids being abandoned.

(24:23):
Yeah.
I would assume I hope that it was in the hopes of someone else can take care of her.
Providing-
I don't- I just like don't want to deal with it, you know?
Yeah.
Although-
I mean to be fair, if you don't want to deal with it, please for the love of God,
give that child to somebody who will take care of it.
There's- I just feel as though there are so few excuses for

(24:45):
not doing the best that you can for a child.
I don't even like kids, you guys.
And especially in the end, if you're like adopting a kid who needs help, like you take-
like you're-
the-
I like you don't even know what to say, it's so obvious, but like fucking take care of it.

(25:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It does seem really obvious.
Yeah.
Both children were flown to the United States, a company by an escort,
though neither had ever met their adoptive parents.
That's so hard.
This practice is no longer allowed by the Ethiopian government.

(25:26):
It seems like common sense that an adoption should not be allowed to move forward and finalize
without the respective parties having met, but you know, I guess Hindsitis 2020.
Listen, if kids have no other place to go-
like if you are trying to place children in loving homes, I can understand how sometimes you are
maybe not always operating in ideal circumstances, but my God.

(25:53):
Can we just make sure they're going someplace better than, you know, wherever they were surrendered?
It's like you're ordering a kid off Amazon or something, like just shows a beard or one day.
Well, no home inspection, no.
An A.A.I. social worker did visit.
Oh, okay.
So they do that to follow up with the children and the family as they adjusted to the new home

(26:17):
and, you know, to integrating into the family.
I think goodness for that.
Yeah.
So they did do that, which feels like sort of the bare minimum.
You know, when you just basically expect someone to show up on a doorstep that they've never
darkened before and oh boy.

(26:37):
This was in the first six months following their placement with the Williams'es and included
some review of their medical records at the time.
While Hannah had been underweight at only 77 pounds upon her arrival, for contacts, she's about 13
years old. So very, very little.
Within those first six months, she had grown to 105 pounds, which I feel like is a very,

(27:03):
you know, healthy weight for her, you know, a young teenage girl.
I'm not totally clear on what her height was just going strictly from memory, but even if she
was really short like me, 105 pounds would be, that's a good, healthy weight, I think at that age.
She was also reading from a little house on the Prairie Book Series.

(27:26):
Which I feel like that's considered a literature staple.
Right.
My many in the age group.
I mean, hot tape?
I mean, I didn't even know it was books.
Oh.
I mean, I knew of the show.
I mean, I know pretty much if I thought about it, I would figure, okay, it's probably a book.

(27:48):
Cause like everything is a book.
Everything's a book.
But yeah, I just, I heard of the show.
So I never really thought about the books.
Yeah.
I feel like, I mean, it started out as books and so like kind of dependent, I mean, it's just like
anything else.
Whatever you were exposed to first is kind of the thing that wins out in general, but that's so

(28:10):
funny. I'm like, I didn't know for a long time that there was a show.
I'd read the books and I was like, oh, they made a show out of it.
Cause my mom had the book.
Oh.
Oh, okay.
Emanuel for his part was learning to sign in order to communicate with members of his new family.
There were kind people in relative proximity to the family and the local community that made

(28:36):
efforts to extend themselves, but found doing so wasn't meant with the warm regard they'd expected.
A fellow parishioner that also happened to be deaf had tried to converse with Emanuel,
but either Larry or Carrie would escort the boy from basically any situation where
he might have been able to have a private conversation with anyone outside of their home.

(28:59):
Oh, that's not, that's a red flag.
It's funny you should say that my next sentence. This is an early red flag.
You know, kind of a canary in the coal mine type of a, like the biggest,
like, ah, this kid's in trouble.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Why can't the kid have a private conversation?

(29:22):
Why not?
Yeah.
It's weird.
Why not?
Weird.
One day simultaneously in the not too distant future and somehow also not quite soon enough,
however, his voice would be heard.
Quart.
Oh.
After June 2009, there would be no further doctor's visits nor the oversight of the adoption

(29:48):
agency completing additional follow-up visits, at least none that were documented.
By this point, it seems the Williams'es would have been expected to assume responsibility for
providing updates per the standard adoption agreement with the AAI.
But the Williams'es never did.

(30:10):
And while there certainly are some laws enacted to
related to adoption, providing such updates to the agency was not compulsory.
At least as far as the law was concerned.
So legally, they have no obligation to provide any verification, any updates, no follow-up,

(30:33):
nothing once the children are officially, you know, permanently placed in their care.
Which makes sense in a way, in a way.
But you would think there are people that are invested in these children that have been placed
in your home. You would think you would care enough about letting them know like they did the right

(30:58):
thing. They found this child a good home. And they're just like, "Nah, I don't feel like it."
As stated by a former AAI employee, even if the updates do continue, there's no guarantee
of accuracy as adoptive parents would be self-reporting by that stage.
Right. Like, what does even the point?

(31:19):
Yeah. What are they going to say? Like, "Ah, we're doing so terrible at this parenting thing."
Well, yeah. I mean, exactly. I feel like the vast majority of people are, you know,
a self-assessment is, yeah, you're only going to get so much honesty, so much transparency.
Honor systems. Yeah.
According to court testimony, though none of the Williams' biological children slept in a closet

(31:45):
or took their meals outside in the cold. Hannah frequently did.
None of the bio children were served their meals cold, but both in manual and Hannah were on many
occasions. The adopted children were also physically disciplined far more than them, disciplined.

(32:07):
In some cases, to the point of visible marks being left behind,
by, and let's be clear here, what should accurately be characterized as abuse,
disciplined with really heavy, bunny ears, yeah, into train a child. They talk about selecting the size,

(32:27):
with length, and type of objects that, you know, you can use to physically discipline your children.
They talk about, and this is quite literal, babies, so that, you know, you can get more chores done.
You put them on a blanket, and whenever they try to crawl off the blanket, you hit them with,

(32:55):
you know, you just hit them with the prescribed size and type of device.
And that way they learn that they're not supposed to leave the blanket.
It's not the point of raising a kid, so it leaves the blanket.
Right, but that makes it really inconvenient when you're trying to do chores about your household.

(33:19):
You want to just be able to set your baby on a blanket and know that it's not going to go anywhere.
Because that's on the child. Yeah, no.
I'm littered. We're talking about children that cannot walk.
Because they're talking about babies crawling on a blanket that they're physically,
the physical is literal, but disciplining. They're literally talking about hitting infants.

(33:45):
That's ridiculous. What doesn't leave the blanket?
Then it's never going to leave your house. What is now it's too scared to leave a blanket?
I don't know. I think it might run away screaming the first chance that they get.
Just to provide some context to that, I didn't want to read an entire chapter.

(34:08):
Things.
Not really my idea of worthwhile or award-winning literature, if you know what I mean.
But it's the context that you need.
Testimony continued to include details about the events of a particular date.

(34:29):
Beyond just the broad strokes testimony about the overall home life.
Said of that date, May 12, 2011, testimony provided was that Hannah was being kept outside.
No desperately about the cold could move. Carry Williams.

(34:49):
Quote, while Hana was getting cold,
so mom told her to do jumping jacks, but she wouldn't do jumping jacks. This was later corroborated by
the testimony of another child from within the home. She almost exclusively at a certain point

(35:09):
started living out of doors. What the... like... in Northwest Washington. People live indoors.
I don't even like people who leave their dog outside. Yep. Two of the older brothers on this date in
particular and it sounds like possibly on other occasions, but on this day in particular,

(35:37):
were also said to have exited the home. Hit Hana with a switch when she appeared to have given up
on exercising for warmth. You may have guessed at this point that the court didn't become involved
along with media just due to abuse in the Williams family home, which would be horrific

(36:00):
in and of itself. And certainly worthy of creating concern and bringing that to light.
Sadly, it was that day in May of 2011 that Hana passed away, face down, in the mud outside of
family's rural home. The coroner testified that Hana's legs showed she could have recently been

(36:22):
struck at least 14 times. With an implement like the plastic tubing, the Williams family was known
to have used to discipline their children. It's very popular amongst the... to train a child,
group, demographic, whatever you want to call them. I got a lot of things I want to call them.
When Hana's body arrived at the corner in 2011, she was reportedly down to between 76 and 80 pounds.

(36:50):
So right back to her pre-adoption weight. And she was older. She lost approximately 30 pounds. Holy
shit. At the time of her death, she was lighter than 97% of girls in her age group.
Photos taken at the time of her autopsy are said to all too adequately illustrate the devastation

(37:13):
her body endured. Essentially, she was emaciated. And her ultimate cause of death was said to be
hypothermia. Yeah, what the fuck did they expect? Like, how do you expect someone to live and
survive outside on no food? Very little food, often cold food, being physically, these children

(37:39):
were being beaten. Until like doing jumping jacks for warmth. But how do you have the energy to do
jumping jacks even? Not that that's a good way to warm up a child who's outside being abused. But
how do you expect them to do jumping jacks if they're not even fed? I don't think she
and I say she, I do view in this case someone who was the full-time caregiver as, you know,

(38:06):
essentially a stay-at-home mom. That person I view as being maybe disproportionately responsible
compared to the father figure in the home. But one thing that I came across in research and I heard
in red was that there were those that had said, "Carry told members of like prayer groups and other

(38:33):
like women's groups that she was a part of associated with the church that, you know, she wouldn't
wish this child on anyone." And I think they did not realize she looked very small. Also, I will

(38:54):
show you some pictures that are available of Hana and she appeared much younger because of,
I mean, she was just such, I mean, just diminutive compared to other children her age here in the
States. I have to imagine. But when she arrived and it was clear that she was, you know, she's a teenager

(39:19):
because she started to exhibit parts of puberty, like having a period.
Carry didn't like that. But she was like that. I basically, I didn't adopt a child. I adopted,
I adopted a woman. Now I just have this like inconvenience. Wow. Because kids don't grow up eventually, too.

(39:46):
Yeah. Into women. And also it's still a fucking child. Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm here.
No, I mean, every and that goes in my mind that just goes to sort of the backwards thinking that
is included in scripture about female bodies and about that like our development. And I was like,

(40:13):
I don't know, I don't know what else to point to as being, how else does a grown-ass woman who has
experienced these things for herself? How does she have so little care for a child? I mean, these
are normal parts of development for an adolescent girl. And she has seven other kids, right?

(40:37):
Yep. Did none of them grow up to have periods? They all just stayed six forever? Hard to say.
I don't, and it's unclear to me how many boys versus girls that they had. And it doesn't,
it doesn't really matter. It doesn't really matter. You could have seven boys. And this would still be

(41:00):
just wildly unacceptable behavior. Thankfully, Carrie and Larry were found guilty on almost all the
charges brought against them. I really, I hope that nobody is offended that I did not go into
greater detail about sort of the events that specifically on the day in question that led to

(41:26):
Hannah's death because I, it's really rough. I feel like Carrie at one point is on the phone with
her husband. She has not gotten in touch with emergency services. And he actually advises her to do so.
And she's still hesitant to do so. Well, no shit, because she just killed a fucking child.

(41:46):
Yeah. Yeah. There are just details of this that it's like, listen, what it boils down to is that
these people are extremists and they are sick in the head. Maybe that has nothing to do with their
religion and they would have done these horrible things to children, regardless. I don't know.

(42:06):
But it boils down to that this child was neglected and abused to death.
She came from a country where she had so little chance to survive and thrive,
particularly in this era. And she lived here, state side for less than a handful of years

(42:28):
and died horrifically, horrifically. She lived longer in the country where she came from.
The jury's verdict was guilty on the following counts. First degree, assault of
immanual manslaughter. This was of course in connection to Hana's death and additionally for

(42:52):
Carrie homicide by abuse. They were sentenced on October 29th, 2013,
Larry to almost 28 years and Carrie to almost 37. However, if you say it in months,
like some people do for their kids well beyond the age of infancy, it almost sounds better.

(43:14):
333 and 443, respectively. Wow. 333. That's been interesting. He double it in like, you know,
660. Oh, fuck. For reference, sentencing is frequently far less, roughly half of the sentences

(43:41):
that they received for similar crimes. So they actually kind of got nailed to the wall a little bit.
And I don't feel bad about it at all. Do you know if they like got out earlier? Some shit. Not to
my knowledge at this point. One judge was quoted as saying they likely still deserve more.
And frankly, I'm inclined to agree. I agree. Can we give more? Can we just tack a little bit more?

(44:06):
That would be great. And there is so much more, but you're going to have to get past the paywall,
my friends. Hey, Trion, looks like you may have some bonus content coming your way.
Because best believe I am so far from shutting the fuck up about this particular topic and this
particular case, there's a lot for my research that I still kind of want to get into and discuss,

(44:33):
but somebody's got to pay for my therapy after this. Patreon? This one really fucked me up a little bit.
I mean, it took me so much longer to get through each of the stages with this case. It really,
yeah, none of them are, I mean, God, there's nothing I talk about. It's, you know, sunshine and rainbows.

(45:00):
But I must have been like feeling the Ick. Well, I guess I was probably feeling your Ick vibe because
you were sitting here writing it like, uh, sucks. Uh, yeah, but I didn't even like the fact that carry
a Larry rhyme. I didn't even like, oh, that's so cute. Normally, you would be like, oh, yeah,
but you just knew, I don't even, I didn't know that as far as you knew they could have been the victims.

(45:25):
Right. But you were like, I'm not getting that. I don't know. I don't remember. Maybe when we go back,
I'll listen to the recording. Maybe I will say, oh, but I don't think I was. I don't think so. I was
just picking up the vibe. No, because immediately I would have been like, oh, no, no, trust me. Not cute.
Yeah. No, not cute. All right. All right. I think we're going to go do the thing that we normally do

(45:52):
that we talked about at the beginning. And also, we'll probably have some snacks. Snack break and
the next tarot. Indeed. They give her two middle names too. I really fucking hate that.
What was her middle names? Hannah Aleemoo was her birth name. And I don't know. I don't know if this

(46:17):
was ever changed like legally or if this is just tacked on. It really doesn't matter. Nobody calls
her this. Nobody ever will. Hana Grace-Rose. And they hyphenated Grace-Rose. Grace-Rose.
Huh. Interesting. I hate it. So they they referred to her as Hana Grace hyphen Rose Williams.

(46:41):
It's not what her headstone says. Thank God. Okay. Because there were people that cared enough to make
sure she had a proper burial. Good. And a real last headstone. Wow. I didn't really even think about
it. Oh, visit her being like a thing. But oh my gosh. I'm glad that someone did that. Yeah.

(47:05):
Is she buried in Washington? We're going to oh, trust. That's a big part of what I want to talk about
in in the extended. The people that made sure that she had a proper burial. It's not necessarily a
long, a long discussion. But I I feel like there are some some important details there. And I feel

(47:33):
like it it made me feel so much sadder but also kind of better. That makes sense. Because it's like
oh, you know, because they love her. And then I'm like, oh, but they love her. But all they
are right. Let's go do terrible. Okay. Okay. Don't lick the cards because that was weird.

(47:56):
Okay. We have the infamous snorter here. So if you hear pig sounds in the background that is the dog.
Yeah. And also the dog is here. Yeah. You are you are the infamous snorter too.
snorting already. I think we need a third mic. She's clearly got things to say.

(48:24):
Kim and I do one more thinking about Hana. Ladies giving us all her energy.
Oh, she's jumping down. You wanted to be up here. You here with this whole fit. I know. She's like,
but it's boring. Yes, we're just doing tarot. I'm actively petting her by the way.

(48:52):
Lady, at least get up here and show me your cute face before you leave. Oh, look at you face.
I thought you wanted to do terror with us. You were even in a video. You were in a real.
We'll see you the chords. Okay. Bye.

(49:12):
Okay. That's like where I was going. Like, here is. Yeah. Or here is. Like in the middle of that ish.
Okay. Two of cards. Okay. That's interesting. It's such a positive card. I think so. It's like what

(49:34):
Carrie and Terry should have been. I feel like I've said that before. Larry. Oh, wait.
Who the fuck cares? Larry and Carrie, right? Larry and Carrie. Yeah. I feel like that's like what they
should have been. Like two loving bird parents who love all their adopted children. But

(49:57):
I mean, I don't even think I need to read it, but I guess I will. Yeah. It's just, it's too
positive. I mean, it is. And we drew it upright. I'm interested to see. Okay. Two of cups are keywords are
partnership, harmony, creative exchange and cooperation. Who cooperation? No, I don't, I don't

(50:21):
know about that word. Interesting in this context. I'll say that much. In many decks, the two of cups
shows a man and woman holding chalices as if toasting each other. The card represents joining forces
with someone either romantically or in a creative slash spiritual endeavor. It was spiritual too.

(50:46):
Well, in joining forces, honestly, that makes me think of at least in this application. I don't think
I ever would have thought of this being a connection, but you're joining together
families. You're joining these other and it was too adopted children. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

(51:09):
You share a common dream, interest or passion and can work together to bring it into being.
This next part might actually be physically painful to say. Mutual respect and equality exist
between you. Gonna beg to differ, but you know, and we'll move on. The upright too indicates a period

(51:33):
of harmony when things go smoothly between you and another person. I think of this as the honeymoon card.
Not in this case. Well, I think this feels representative of that honeymoon period. It's like six months

(51:54):
where things, I mean, at least there was nothing that was representing as being sort of a red flag.
Right. She like gained the weight and was like a normal kid and then. It seemed like both kids were
beginning to adjust. I mean, it's all relative and nobody else was there in the home with

(52:20):
that family, but when you have high hopes and experience a time of accord, optimism,
inspiration and goodwill, interreading about money, the upright to suggest a financial
partnership or merging your resources with someone else's for mutual gain. It can also mean

(52:44):
financial support comes from a partner or a backer. It doesn't feel super applicable, but it does
make me think of like, I think you said one of the kids got surrendered because of the disability.
So actually in this case, it's believed that both children that were adopted by the Williams

(53:08):
family were surrendered in no small part at least due to their medical condition. So one child
being deaf and in Hannah's case, my understanding is that she was happy positive.

(53:29):
Yeah, I think it just reminded me of our conversation like, well, did they were they just not able to
like afford to take care of it? So I don't know, that just reminded me of that kind of like
so much. So it's financial. Yeah, I mean, these days, how can anyone afford to raise a child
period? Right. Yeah. I mean, particularly with a child that might have any sort of special need.

(53:54):
I don't know. It's incredible. If the reading is about your job, this card describes a partnership
that benefits both people. Do you think this ties into the authors of to train a child? I think
this ties into the Pearl family. That's the vibe I'm picking up. And we have to record

(54:24):
this for bonus for the Patreon because there's just a lot of stuff that I feel like really provides
context that I didn't want to take the focus away from this particular family and this case
and Hannah in particular, but my God. So bullet point number two, you inspire one another and enjoy

(54:49):
working together. It can also represent cooperation and creative collaboration in your workplace.
In a reading about love, the two upright symbolizes a happy relationship that's developing smoothly.
You understand each other's needs and bring out the best in one another. This card shows

(55:12):
harmony, balance and mutual respect between two parties. I feel like this is all a lot of this
in the back half here is very representative of the Pearl family. Interesting. There's a lot of
really interesting material. I should probably stop there. Okay. To be honest, I didn't really anticipate

(55:39):
and I didn't want that to be such a major focus of this, but I feel like at the same time,
sort of what I've been getting at is that people that sort of propagate these beliefs and
like the practices that go along with them. It's like, I don't know, I have a hard time saying that

(56:01):
you're blameless in situations like this where I mean, this is on the best day. I think a lot of
the things that people abiding by these teachings, a lot of what they would be doing on the very best day.
You'd have a hard time selling that that's healthy, that's natural, that's legal. Yeah.

(56:27):
But in these cases, it's really hard to say that those people have remained blameless.
Yeah. I'm not saying that it's anyone's fault, but the Williams, right. But also at the same time,
there's co-evality. Right. How did you end up there? And what they were doing with the children.

(56:49):
So, yeah, I just, I mean, you can't hold those, you can't hold the pearls or anyone else responsible
for the crime aside from carrying Larry Williams. But I do think ultimately, when you find that
there are certain ideologies that are truly irresponsible or that lead to harm,

(57:15):
there has to be a way to adjust for that. I don't know what that is. I don't have all the answers, but
you don't. What are we with this podcast? Boy, if I did, though. I'm just saying, you know,
that's ugly. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a parent she should have had the one she deserved.

(57:43):
I mean, she had two parents who were led by two parents who wrote an awful book about,
but any two parents out there should reportedly be doing raising children. She was adopted as part of a pair.
They are violet green swallows, which you can see on them. They are purple and green.

(58:08):
Okay. I'm going to read this from the little book. It's the little poem. I don't know what you call it.
It's a poem? No. What's the, oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Well, we're googling. Yeah. No, this is going to bother me. Get the Google machine out.
Allegory. Allegory. Yeah. Like all of these definitions are written like an allegory. It's okay.

(58:34):
A story poem or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political
one. So it's a poem. You said poem in your description there, but they're not really strictly speaking
poem, right? But I wasn't wrong. I'm going to award you half a point. Okay. I'm going to read these,

(58:57):
these allegory, the swallows paths crossed and everything changed for both of them.
Had the wind not carried her a little farther than she had planned to go or had yesterday's storm,
not forced him to land early, they would never have encountered one another. Oh my god. A child

(59:19):
born in Ethiopia dies in Cedra, Wolley. That is true. Like everything has to align for you to get
to this one specific area. Yeah. In this case, like, in not a good way. Had he not twittered loudly
as he sun bathed, they would never have collected grass or twigs or feathers together. Had she not

(59:43):
swooped past at precisely the right moment to catch his showy display, they would not later
shape their collection into a cup in that hollow fur. Had her first return display to him,
not complemented the choreography of his own, they would never have bonded or laid eggs or incubated
them or hunted for insects to feed their brood. These birds are feeding their brood. Yeah. But all

(01:00:10):
those things conspired to occur, whether through chance, serendipity or fate, their past and just
cross, they converged. Same with like that couple who everything had to work out for them to get together
to have all of these kids to I cannot believe this. Just that specific word choice. Converged.

(01:00:33):
I don't think the tab is still open, but oh, I'm glad I read that then. I'm looking just to see. I
don't think I left it open. I was like, I don't need this anymore. I know I closed it. At some point
during this, it's just weird. I don't know. It's kind of one of those things where just like a word

(01:00:56):
hits you a certain way. At some point, I don't even know that it was related to the case specifically, but I
was looking up the term insufficient convergency. Oh, what does that mean?
You're like, I don't know. I'm looking it up. Honestly, I feel like I'm not. That's not a word like,

(01:01:25):
it's a word people use, obviously, but not really one that's like used in everyday language, you know?
Oh, okay. Actually, this is going to explain a lot. It's insufficient convergence, not
convergency, but in my defense, when I was researching this, I may or may not have had a head injury.

(01:01:49):
It has to do with the visual disturbance that when I was describing to the Google machine,
what I was experiencing, it was like, do you mean? And I was like, perhaps tell me more.
So it wasn't about the case or anything else. I mean, they coincided. Oh, yeah.

(01:02:13):
Yeah. I had tabs for both open in the same browser. They were converged.
They sure converge. It does like, that word, though. It's weird.
It is weird. It's one of those things that makes you think you're on the right path.

(01:02:33):
Yeah, just sort of, I don't know, it's synchronicity.
So happened to me the other day and I wrote it down just because I didn't think it was a huge deal,
but now maybe I'll say what it was because I don't think I ever plan to say it.
Oh, really? I think I even wrote it in my grocery time. I literally wrote it down in my groceries tab,
because I was like, I'm just going to write this down real quick. I'm not even going to

(01:02:57):
bother open a new note pad for this. Just for that. Oh, come on.
And because I was like, I'll probably just delete this. But it was interesting. So I had sent a text
in the sound like glitched. Like, you know, when it goes, it went like, but it was like glitchy.
And I was like, Oh, that's weird. I have like, so I turned on a new pot. This was like, I don't know.

(01:03:20):
I don't think it was directly after this happened, but it was like somewhere within
10 minutes of this like glitch itself. It was like, you know, I was going to say like a few days.
It was like, no, it's like the next thing I remember doing or whatever I turned on a podcast.
Oh, and I like, you know, I skipped past the, you know, the ad.
Yeah. Don't do that with our show because of what you want us to make money, you know?

(01:03:43):
Yes, it was a podcast that makes a lot of money. I was making so much money.
Yeah. Other podcasts, they make so much money.
Listen to the yeah. So anyway, I was skipping the ads and I went,
skip, skip, skip, and all of a sudden the, the host of it just says glitchy. And I was like,
that was weird. Like who just weird? Because I like was in the middle of her sentence.
And she just went glitchy. And that was the first word that I had like,

(01:04:07):
stop the skip on. And I was like, Oh, that's weird. Because I just had like a weird glitch thing happen.
But so as I was like typing this out though, and like the boop boop boop boop sounds were glitching.
Not so it was just like three glitchy things in a row. Oh, that's freaky. And my phone has never
made like this glitchy sound. I'm sure it was like an update thing or whatever. I don't know what it was.

(01:04:29):
Oh, it's gotta be right. I'm sure. But like three like glitchy glitch go to glitch. Yeah.
I mean, just say glitch three times. It was weird. Anyway, that's all weird.
Remind me of that thing that I never thought I would tell anyone. I thought I was just going to
bleed off my grocery list. But it just made me think, you know, just makes me think we're on the right.

(01:04:51):
Yeah. Things like a lie enough like that. Yeah, it's just weird. Well, I told you,
I, something had already come up for me that I was thinking about Little House on the Prairie.
And then I, I came across that Hannah was reading Little House on the Prairie. And um,

(01:05:12):
there was an adolescent inside of me. Oh, they just, I mean, that, that got me, that got me.
And listen, I, uh, I'm not going to say that those books hold up in, uh, the year of our Lord 2025.

(01:05:33):
Um, I'm not even sure when I read them that they weren't already probably super duper problematic.
I mean, listen, they never were not problematic. It's just, uh, whether or not you were paying attention.
Right. I think you have good memories with them. It doesn't like make it the fact that you
would go to memories associated with it. Yeah. I think that's fair. But I mean, I did too.

(01:05:59):
I know. Oh, I do. If anyone just deserves to have, you know, some small piece of joy in
anything. Oh my god. So I am wearing the world's tiniest cross today. But if it's should we do the
thing? Yeah, let's do the thing. I think so. It's probably time for some French onion dip.

(01:06:26):
I do. Yeah. Let's do that in our white cloths for true leaves or whatever the fuck.
Bubbly waters. She would like to consume more bookies.
Oh, I got some right here. What am I talking about? I literally have one.
Is she keeps forgetting that her glasses actually on this conveniently located table?

(01:06:46):
That's where glasses go. You can easily access them. Correct. That, uh, typically, typically. Yeah.
That for just me to be with them arms. Reach. Yeah. It's true. Even these little t-mails.
Okay. Have a creepy ass day. We'll see you next Tuesday.

(01:07:09):
And we may be coming to you from Who Knows Where? Who Knows God Knows Where?
What do you think this is a catwalk? I do my little turn on the catwalk.
Oh, the catwalk. It's a dogwalk. Lady. Come at the lights. Oh my god. Okay. Let's do this terror.

(01:07:36):
I'm gonna show you. It's a terror sound. Our entire studio. We're getting relished. Yeah. Pnwhauntandhomicides.com