Vanished – The Martin Family Mystery

Step into the foggy streets of Portland in December 1958, where a seemingly perfect family—Ken and Barbara Martin along their three daughters—vanished without a trace. From their cheerful "Candy Lane" home to their fateful trip in search of a Christmas tree, this haunting case captivated the Pacific Northwest as well as the rest of the nation. Featuring nearly daily coverage in newspapers like The Oregonian, the disappearance was a story of unresolved twists, from mysterious sightings of their vehicle to the eventual chilling discovery of two bodies in the Columbia River.

Join us as we delve into the investigation of a case that clearly haunted lead Detective Walter Graven of the Portland Police Bureau. We’ll explore suspicious ties to ex-convicts, and uncover the enigmatic role of the family’s sole survivor, Donald Martin. Did a stolen .38 Colt Commander hold the key to the mystery? Was the family's demise the result of a tragic accident—or something far darker? This episode reexamines one of Oregon's coldest cases and its lingering mysteries. 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Ken played Santa Claus every year for neighborhood children who approached with awe in their eyes

(00:07):
to collect the homemade candy cane decorations that the family made to share with their neighbors.
Why is this the most fucking wholesome thing I've ever heard?
I know, it's pretty precious.
The family wasn't only known for their small acts of kindness during the winter season, though.
They were also well known to organize summer events as well.

(00:29):
They held Christmas in their heart all year.
Hi, Cassie.
Hi, Caitlyn.
Hi, creepy people.
Hello!
Hello!
This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest.

(00:56):
And that would be the PNW.
If you're nasty.
If you're nasty.
I feel like my voice got really gross at the end of nasty.
Oh, God.
So anyway, about those tarot readings.
Yeah.
We usually do those at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic.

(01:22):
And you might notice that technically Christmas or the holidays, whatever is over.
But we are coming to you from the past where it is not over yet.
It hasn't even begun yet.
So we're still celebrating.
And because we don't get to be together, I feel like we deserve that.
Yeah.
And we will not be taking questions.

(01:45):
Yeah.
So if you see our color scheme and if you're watching the video.
I decided to wear my cozy hood and didn't take it off.
So I look kind of weird.
But that's fine.
Yeah.
I'm going to keep on trucking.
Let's do it.
I'm ready.
All right.
You are not ready.
I promise.

(02:06):
Yeah.
To start us off, I'll quote true crime author, JB Fisher, a PNW local with a doctorate in English Renaissance literature.
From the prestigious Reed College, also PNW based.
In 1958 to 1959, Ish, this was a huge news story.

(02:31):
For almost a year, it received nearly daily coverage in the Oregonian and the Oregon Journal.
But in a haunting parallel to the case itself, this case hasn't time become a truly baffling mystery.
Oh, mysterious.
Yeah.
I got to get in the habit of saying end quote because that last sentence, that was mine.

(02:55):
Oh, yeah, you do.
I do the same thing.
Yeah.
I forget.
They're just saying you'll know our voices.
You'll know when the quote's ending and where our voice begins.
Yeah.
Or maybe you all think that I talk like a doctorate, you know, English Renaissance literature guy.
I mean, sometimes.

(03:16):
I was like, Cassie's going to say yes.
And I feel like I was setting you up to say no, but here we are.
No.
Oh.
End sign.
Kenneth Ken Martin was born September 10th, 1904.

(03:37):
I don't know that anyone was actually in the habit of addressing him by his military rank.
Like, just casually at this point.
What was his rank?
It's end sign.
Oh, okay.
I was like, I, you said the word and it sounded familiar and then, okay.
I see.
Yeah.
But I did see some source material that mentioned it or that referred to him that way.

(04:01):
So I don't know.
Maybe just given the situation, it's a sign of difference or respect.
His wife Barbara Alene Cable was born in February of 1910, sometime in February.
Oh, okay.

(04:22):
The 14 because you're wearing like a heart shirt.
Oh, yeah.
There you go.
I was going for Christmas vibes, but maybe that was, you know, for bay abs.
You literally, you pulled up, you have this red and green on your bread and green behind you.
And all I see is the heart.
And I'm like, oh, you're valentine today.

(04:44):
You're like, bitch, I'm Christmas.
What do you mean?
I am Christmas.
But it all connects.
Yeah, it does.
Oh, and hold on.
What?
I didn't even put that together.
I have the skeleton heart hands mug that I'm drinking out of.
It's pink.

(05:05):
And it has talking hands.
We're both hearts and we're both Christmas.
How did we do that?
I don't know.
That's funny.
And we're not, I think we've shown time and time again that we're far too frazzled to really plan out any of these things.
No, totally not.
That's funny.
The pair were married on November 28th of 1929.

(05:29):
Mir weeks after the Great Crash in October that same year.
So that was the start of the Great Depression.
Okay, I was like, what kind of pressure are we talking about?
Stocks, steamboat, incident, or...
No, this is...
Yeah, it's, I mean, the most infamous market disaster, I think, of the modern era, I would say.

(05:54):
Damn.
A pretty crazy...
I mean, the Great Depression, just like, you know, if most of us were alive at this point, which hopefully if you're listening, you were.
The 2008 market recession.
How it sort of like, in some respects, there are aspects of it that started here in the United States, but it really became sort of a global financial crisis.

(06:22):
It's like that scale.
Okay.
It hardly seems like a harbinger of joy.
And yet, the couple went on to have four children.
Four?
In this academy?
Well, I mean, it wasn't this economy.
That economy?
Yeah, I mean, either way, not great.

(06:45):
The Martin family lived in a two-story tutor-style home in Portland.
By all accounts, they were well-liked by neighbors and incredibly kind people who were active in the local community.
So, I know I told you this wasn't strictly speaking a Christmas case, but there are a couple of things that make it feel a little bit more Christmassy than I let on.

(07:13):
Oh, okay.
I'm not mad about it.
Okay, good.
The street on which the Martins lived was often referred to as "candy lane" during the Christmas season.
Candy lane!
Candy lane!
I want to go there.
Yeah.
This was apparently due in no small part to the family's love of the holiday season, as well as spreading Christmas cheer to their neighbors.

(07:42):
Ken played Santa Claus every year for neighborhood children who approached with awe in their eyes to collect the homemade candy cane decorations that the family made to share with their neighbors.
Why is this the most fucking wholesome thing I've ever heard?
I know. It's pretty precious.
The family wasn't only known for their small acts of kindness during the winter season, though.

(08:07):
They were also well-known to organize summer events, as well.
They held Christmas in their heart all year.
I'm just saying, Christmas in July.
Yeah!
Ken worked at Eccles, a lecture-com service company.
He supervised the repair department and had an apparently impeccable attendance record.

(08:29):
He supervised the repair department and had an apparently impeccable attendance record.
His failure to show up to work on December 8th was, quote, "Unprecedented."
End quote.
Oh!
That's because he's afraid of being on the naughty list, so that's a huge deal.
Exactly.
Exactly. We can only assume.

(08:51):
Ken reportedly had an important meeting at work that day, so it was particularly unusual for someone so fastidious and punctual just to...
That's show up.
I'm worried.
Yeah. I feel like I would be too.
If someone just doesn't show up to work, that's concerning.
Yeah, because you know those people.

(09:13):
Like, there's people who just don't show up to work and like, you know who they are.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they usually don't stick around that long.
Yeah. No.
You know the difference.
The Martin family had money in the bank with no readily-apparent troubles, financial or otherwise,
as far as the casual observer was concerned.
The family home was valued at $15,000, and I found in some source material that there was an additional $15,000 in cash and other valuables.

(09:45):
Other valuables, I would be curious to know what all that entails.
Yeah.
Just given the dollar value of a particular item that's going to come up later.
Oh.
Okay.
Secret secrets.
Yeah.
Also, would like to point out that is significantly more than the sum total of my current estate decades later.

(10:11):
I've never even seen that amount of money in my entire life.
I mean, I have.
I've prepared that amount of money for like other people at a bank.
But on December 7th, 1958, the weather in Portland was marked by patchy fog.
That burned off as the day warmed to the mid-50s.
Sounds legit.
I know.

(10:32):
I literally, in my notes, it sounds like nearly perfect weather for that time of year, for particularly that day's itinerary for the Martin family.
The Martin family plan to travel out towards the large mountain area, about 30 miles east of Portland, to find a Christmas tree, and some other greens to make reeds.

(10:55):
Oh.
I know.
Pretty wholesome.
Earlier in the day, some of their extended family had been over, which was not unusual.
It sounds like they were very not just community, but also very family oriented.
And they did have a pretty good size group of kind of extended family and like close family friends that lived, you know, within a relatively short distance from their home.

(11:24):
It was at about 10.30 a.m. that Mr. and Mrs. Robert D Evans, cousins of the Martin's visited the Martin family home with their two children in the child of another relative, Marcy Welch.
Sounds like a party.
Yeah.
Cousin party?

(11:45):
Yeah.
It's a party with a bunch of seven-year-olds.
Yeah. I met like, I was thinking more of like from the point of view of the seven-year-old, like sleep over with all the cousins.
Yeah.
Yeah.
This was on their way to a later Sunday dinner at the Welch family home, though the Martin's would decline the invitation extended to them.

(12:06):
Ken had told the relatives that morning that their venture out on East Highway 84 would take up the majority of their day and they just likely wouldn't be able to make it for dinner later.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Right. I think.
Yeah. It does.
It's definitely going to make more sense.
We have some information about the timeline that though there's sort of some discrepancies and things that's like, "Hmm, that's interesting."

(12:34):
Hmm.
It was around 1.30 to 2 p.m. that neighbors were called seeing the Martin's leaving in the family sedan.
Their neighbor Ella Chin, who lived just down the street, thought it closer to the ladder of the two.
So she said, "I think that they definitely left closer to 2 o'clock."
While Frank Womack, who had been outside washing his car, believed it was closer to 1.30.

(13:00):
I don't know who's like, "If you're outside washing your car, are you looking at the clock?"
That was my exact thought.
And then my next sentence.
And since this case is from the 1950s, I'm surprised that the source material I found doesn't just say they left at 1.30 before a female neighbor clearly became hysterical.

(13:21):
Right.
That is so true though.
A man said this, so we're going to assume it's fact.
Back then, I don't know if your watch would be waterproof.
You wouldn't want to be wearing it and washing the car.
I don't know.
Right.
No, I think that's such a good point.
I don't know how he knew exactly what time it was.

(13:42):
And I feel like she was probably, you know, in the kitchen.
That's what I was going to say.
If she wasn't in the kitchen, she was probably close enough by that, you know, she may have just glanced at the clock.
People also had clocks on their walls.
So being indoors, I don't know, I'm going out on a limb and say, "It makes more sense to me."

(14:07):
There are some other details, like I said, that I think probably line up a little bit more closely with them having left at about 1.30.
I don't know that a half hour is making that much of a difference.
Yeah.
It was an odd time of day to begin a journey into a wooded area, though, because it's like this time of year.

(14:30):
Oh, yeah, because it gets dark out like four.
The grandson of the detective who worked the case for Multnomah County even knew Kenneth didn't like to drive when it was dark outside.
It's gork outside.
Gork outside.
You can't drive in a garca.
Well, he didn't like to.

(14:52):
I don't even relate to that.
Seriously.
It sucks.
The older you get, the better the reason has to be for you to leave your house.
Yeah.
Leaving this late in the day and taking the length of their drive into account, there wasn't much daylight left for their foraging plans.
Because remember, they're trying to cut down a Christmas tree.

(15:13):
They're supposed to be gathering greens to put together a bunch of reeds.
Yeah.
Huh.
And, you know, they're headed out kind of towards like cascade locks, essentially like Hood River.
So, I mean, even from Portland, that's still a little bit of a drive.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Just seems odd.
It sort of gives me pause about some of the later theories.

(15:38):
I don't know.
Well, I'm worried about the theories.
I don't like groups setting up here.
I'm getting uncomfortable.
None of it's great.
I need to hug my blankie.
Yeah, I would.
In any case, the Martins reportedly left their home in the family vehicle, afford country sedan.
It was white or cream according to some source material and red.

(16:02):
I'm going to pull up the photo folder that I have for the case.
Okay, so I texted it to you.
Oh, cute.
I love old cars.
Also, this looks like rust and not red.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I will be finding some more true to life.
Oh, okay.
But like pretend like it was like a newer version is that what you're saying.

(16:24):
Yeah.
So, it's freaking cute.
Oh, no, it's cute.
It kind of reminds me like a little bit of like cars that you see in like old timey like movies.
Yeah.
Like movies like, um, oh God.
I think like Christmas vacate or yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is that okay?
That sounds right.

(16:45):
Yeah.
And I can just like picture a Christmas tree on top of this car too.
Yes.
Like just like that kind of car.
A thousand percent.
It was literally the most 1950s car imaginable, I think.
I picture this at the drive in.
It's got the tree strap to the roof.
Like you said.
Somebody's coming out delivering like malts and burgers and fries in roller skates.

(17:10):
Oh my God, I want a malt from a roller skated person immediately.
I don't know.
I'm going to Sonic.
Oh, wait, do they do roller skates there?
Wait, I have to do some.
Do they?
I feel like they do.
I don't know.
I could be wrong.
You guys, do they do roller skates?
Do they?
Am I like, was that like a fever dream I had?

(17:32):
I don't know.
Somebody please tell us.
I'm too afraid to Google it and find out that she's like really losing it.
But I want comments.
I want interaction.
Give it.
Loaded into the car.
We're both Ken and Barbara as well as Barbara aka Barbie.
I was going to say.

(17:53):
14.
Who was a freshman at Grant High School at the time.
Virginia, 13, and Susan, 11.
You may recall that I previously said the Martins had four children.
Their 28 year old son, Donald, was stationed in New York with the Navy.

(18:18):
Quite a bit older than his Sibs.
Yeah.
I was like, what explains this insane age gap?
And then immediately they had a bajillion.
You know what I mean?
Sounds like a high school accident.
And then later on, I don't know, I could be wrong.

(18:39):
But that's what it sounds like to me.
I mean, sure.
But this is a married couple essentially before birth control was sort of widely used.
Oh.
I just feel like it's kind of like Pringles.
It's sort of usually like a one-chip-hop.
You don't stop.

(19:00):
I mean, some people have difficulties or whatever.
I guess.
I don't know.
But then once they broke the seal again, it was it was on.
It's interesting.
Yeah.
It said that the family had lunch at a diner located in Hood River.
Clara York, a waitress at the Paradise Snack Bar in Hood River, said she waited on the

(19:22):
family between four and four thirty.
However, she later modified her story slightly, clarifying that she believed they had come in
closer to around two p.m.
So if they had come in at two, they definitely would have needed to leave the house at one thirty.

(19:45):
Okay.
I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
Nevertheless, her original story in timeline may have been more plausible because she remembered
turning the flood lights on in the parking lot just after they left as dusk fell.
So why would she change her story?
Well, I think, you know, sometimes I witness testimony is always kind of tricky.

(20:09):
And especially when you're asking someone to give you, you know, a precise timeline, I
would assume, you know, particularly as a waitress or really like anyone who's like in their
work environment, you know, you can look up at the clock and all of a sudden realize,
holy shit, it's lunchtime, you know what I mean?

(20:30):
And yeah, if you're busy, you just have a lesser awareness.
I don't know.
I do.
I think it's odd, but it's not, it's not even close to the weirdest thing.
The family also stopped for gas at the Cascade Box Service Station.
The reports differed as to when they arrived and who waited on them because of course,

(20:56):
why wouldn't it?
In fact, this receipt, a receipt for gas they purchased like 30 minutes out of town arrived
in the Martin mailbox roughly two weeks after this particular date.
So apparently gas stations used to mail people receipts?

(21:20):
Interesting.
Yeah.
Okay.
It indicated that five gallons of gas had been purchased that day.
Martin's signature on the receipt was authenticated by handwriting experts at the time.
So presumably they actually did get gas there.
That feels verifiable.

(21:40):
It doesn't really tell us a lot because-
Does it have a timestamp?
No.
Not that I'm aware of.
God dang it.
Receipts nowadays have timestamps.
They sure do.
Yeah.
Oh.
Oh.
Honestly, just the marvel that is anyone going to the effort of mailing a receipt.

(22:04):
Yeah.
Wow.
It's interesting.
It was a different time.
Yeah.
That's like just so like leave it to beaver.
You know what I mean?
Kelsey and Doris Newtson claimed to have seen what looked like the Martin station wagon
around dusk parked under the bridge of the gods in cascade locks.

(22:27):
Two men were standing next to the vehicle and speaking to the passengers inside.
This was most likely the last reported sighting of the Martin family.
Oh no.
Yeah, not great.
It was roughly 9.30pm the following day, December 8th, that Ken's boss Edward Lunds called the police

(22:50):
concerned about the family's whereabouts after Ken never reported to work that day.
That attendance record, I'm telling you.
Comes in handy.
If you come- I mean if you go missing, sadly, hopefully you don't.
It would also be established by Charlotte Dorsey, a second grade teacher and also Ken's sister

(23:11):
that the Martin children had not attended school that day.
The police would accompany Charlotte to the family home for an old-timey wellness check.
Is this on the 8th?
Yes.
Okay.
Look at you, superstar.
Just trying to get the timeline down.
Yeah.
I know.

(23:32):
She's like, I'm a salsa.
In the Martin family's ranch-style home, there was a thawed me on the counter, dishes in the
sink, a load of wash in the machine, and they'd even left the heater on downstairs.
Oh.
It seemed that the Martin's had planned to return, but where were they now?

(23:55):
I know.
I mean, everyone that talked to them that day, and well, I should say the day prior, everyone
that talked to them the day presumably that they disappeared said, I mean, based on their
plans, obviously they were headed home that evening.
Yeah, they were going to get a train coming back, right?

(24:16):
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, because then you got to get that thing in water.
Yeah.
You got to shake all the spiders out, water it, and decorate the bitch.
Yeah.
Got to get that star on top.
And exhaustive search and investigation were undertaken in an attempt to discover the

(24:36):
Martin families whereabouts.
Some 6,000 circulars were distributed by law enforcement nationwide.
A circular?
Yeah, it's basically like a flyer?
Yes.
So sometimes they were included like in your newspaper, things like that.

(25:00):
Okay.
So there's like a missing person's alert type of thing.
Yes.
Yeah.
Essentially that's what we're talking about.
They were distributed in kind of, I think, a variety of ways at this point in history, but
yes, that's the ultimate takeaway.
They were circulated.
A $1,000 cash reward was raised for tips in the case, $900 from friends and family, and

(25:27):
another 100 that was donated by a motor safety club.
Oh, I know.
Even the clubs in the 1950s were just, it's very wholesome.
Just days after Christmas on December 29, a woman phoned authorities with the tip that
the family was, quote, "In water by a totem pole."

(25:53):
End quote.
In water?
Mm-hmm.
By a totem pole?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Though reportedly she could not say where exactly, which tracks because I don't know where
that would be.
Yeah.
It could be a hole in water.
It could be anywhere and nowhere.

(26:17):
But eventually, it seemed like the trail hit Gong cold despite the best efforts of detective
Walter Graven, which I'm going to be honest, nothing against him, because actually I think
he's a good dude, and he did probably as good a job as anybody might have.

(26:37):
But I don't want the detective that's involved with my case to be named Graven.
Oh.
Sounds great.
Yeah, great.
You know what I mean?
Little bit grave.
It's a little too on the nose.
But honestly, he's great as far as I know.
Oh.
He was a man from the 1950s.

(26:58):
So, you know.
Was the person who called and said it was in water by a totem pole?
Were they like a psychic?
Girl?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Did you say that?
And I just like missed it?
No.
Okay.
No.
We're not really going to come back to that because they could never really substantiate anything

(27:20):
that this person said.
It just sounds like a psychic would say that.
Like, I don't know where, but I'm seeing water in a totem pole.
No.
A thousand percent.
Your instincts are totally on.
I mean, because I believe that report came in on the telephone, it's like, who knows who

(27:42):
that person was or like anybody can call themselves a psychic, right?
But, yes.
It's one of those like kind of creepy cold case.
Really?
I mean, just generally true crime case things that like comes back so frequently.
Why are there so many psychics that want to give information to the police?

(28:06):
I guess if you legitimately think you have information, even if it sounds wild, I mean,
what's the harm, I guess?
Do a certain degree, but I don't.
But you don't want them like wasting all their time and resources on.
Yeah.
I don't know, maybe bring it to like a private search team or something and see if they would

(28:30):
like to take it on.
I mean, I don't really know the options, but there's got to be something better than just
like, I don't know, wasting the time of police.
Well, and here's the thing.
In this case, we have enough information to know that the disappearance was taken seriously

(28:53):
really from the beginning.
And there's more information than I anticipated, like a lot more.
Wow.
Unfortunately, a lot of it is, I think broadly speaking, you'd say, well, sure that looks
this way or that, but it's very circumstantial.

(29:18):
Through the course of the investigation, it would come to light that just a day after their
disappearance, a stolen white Chevrolet was found east of the Cascade locks.
The vehicle was registered in California where it had been stolen by two ex-convex, who
conveniently were at this time they were escaped.

(29:42):
They had a scop aid.
Holy shit.
They were apprehended the day after the Martin family disappearance.
So they caught them?
Mm-hmm.
That's what apprehended me.
Yeah.
But it's like, oh, interesting.
So an abandoned vehicle, two ex-cons from California in the same area at the same time.

(30:08):
I don't know.
Didn't someone see the family's vehicle, like two guys talking to them?
Sure did.
I'm glad you brought that up.
Oh, I'm really paying attention today.
It's going to, there's, okay.
Later, it would be revealed that the owner of the diner that the Martin family had reportedly

(30:31):
stopped at for lunch knew one of the escapees.
The one that changed her story?
The owner.
Oh, okay, okay.
Not the waitress.
That, okay.
I see.
Oh.
Still?
Yeah, I mean, either way, it's like there's more than one person that puts them there in

(30:52):
that diner, which is really important because of what I'm about to say next.
He stated that while on the lamb, the two men had been there that day at the diner as well,
and even left the establishment around the same time as the family.
Oh, it's so juicy.
Oh, girl.

(31:14):
You don't even know.
You don't even know.
I'm waiting to know.
I know.
Something else odd happened within a short time after the family's disappearance in the
area.
A bloody 38-cult commander, Han-Gun, was recovered in the very same area where the vehicle

(31:38):
had been discovered abandoned.
You know the one that was stolen by the two ex-cons?
Right.
Okay, okay.
A bloody gun means like they were close.
I assume.
I don't know.
Oh, I think you may be on to something.

(31:58):
When it was discovered in the bushes, it was covered in dried blood.
The man and his wife, who had found it, turned it into the local police, but it was ultimately
just returned to him.
By the person who found it?
Yeah.
He turned it into the police and the police were like, we're all done with this.
So you can have a back.

(32:21):
That doesn't seem like the right thing to be doing with a bloody gun, but someone found.
Okay.
Well, here's the thing.
My understanding is that he turned it into the local police, which would have been like
Hood River, different jurisdiction from PPB, the Portland police.

(32:44):
When Detective Walter Graven of the Multnomah County Police learned of the gun, he wanted
to explore that avenue in his investigation because, do I?
But of course, he couldn't because it had been found outside his jurisdiction in Portland
Oregon, within Multnomah County, and had reportedly, again, like I said, already been returned

(33:09):
to the Good Samaritan that turned it in before he would ever get the chance.
I just feel like common sense.
It's a bloody thing that can murder people and you're not going to just keep it in evidence
just in Kate.

(33:30):
I mean, at that point, they just did not have the same scientific capabilities.
I know.
I know.
I know.
It's a bloody murder weapon because it has blood on it.
It literally has blood on it.
Yeah.
It literally has blood on it.
Like, if it was just a gun, okay, maybe.
But like, even then, maybe don't give guns to people who just find them.

(33:55):
Yeah.
I mean, finders keepers.
Let's not play finders keepers with guns, okay, guns.
I really don't think we should.
And so a case quickly turning cold continued to grow even colder with time.
There were a number of reported potential sightings of the Martin family vehicle from along

(34:20):
the I-5 corridor in Oregon to Burlington, Iowa and Billings, Montana.
But the whereabouts of the Martin family remained unknown.
In the new year, some potential new developments in the case gave hope to an increasingly cold

(34:41):
investigation.
In May 1959, following a tentative tip that arrived dating back to February, a river drilling
rig hooked something heavy and metal on its anchor.
No!

(35:02):
But unfortunately, came loose before broaching the surface.
Evidence emerged just a few short days later suggesting that the Martin family car
had plunged off a cliff into the Columbia River near the Dalles.
No!
In the water!

(35:24):
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna keep going.
It was still early May of 1959 when that evidence, the bodies of the two youngest Martin girls
were discovered.
Susan's body was found in the Columbia Slow near Camus, Washington, followed by Virginia's

(35:45):
body near the Bonneville Dam spillway, not far from the Cascade Locks.
Despite these long overdue discoveries, the car was never discovered.
Never recovered.
Holy shit, dude!
Though some believe it was in fact the Martin vehicle that was briefly dislodged from the

(36:06):
river by the drilling rig that loosed the two girls that were subsequently discovered,
which I have to say makes a lot of sense to me.
It does, like the timing of everything.
Susan's body was taken to the Clark County morgue in Vancouver and in both cases the cause

(36:27):
of death was listed as drowning.
Supports the theory of the car, unless they were shot first?
Well, but it says cause of death is drowning.
So they were not decomposed too much to where they could figure out the cause of death?

(36:48):
I think despite whatever decomposition there may have been, it's cold enough in the months
leading up to May.
And I think if the decomposition is not too advanced, it stands to reason I think for me.

(37:13):
And I'm by no means an expert, but I would think that water in the lungs, that would be
something that might be preserved for a little bit longer, especially like I said, those
are colder months of the year, particularly out towards Hood River.

(37:34):
Yeah.
I was just thinking of like the bloody gun that was found.
Right.
I don't know.
I don't know what I would prefer to like be shot or drown.
Yeah.
I think it seems clear that probably I don't think that there was a choice.

(38:04):
So of course not.
But I hope what they say about death by drowning is true because I've always heard from various
sources and different things that I've read over the years that that is supposed to
be one of the more peaceful ways to die.

(38:25):
Yeah, I was just thinking I don't want people to suffer.
So whatever the least amount of suffering is.
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's hard to imagine because of course being slowly suffocated is not good, but I've
always heard that once you reach a certain point and the oxygen deprivation, it's a certain

(38:52):
level that there's sort of a euphoria that kind of floods your system.
God, I would hope that there's something in place in your body to help protect your
mind at the end.
Right.
Yeah.
This is a dark conversation.
Sorry.
Yeah.

(39:12):
That one.
It's not about to get better necessarily.
Susan was identified based on her clothing as well as her dental records.
Dr. A.E.
Waterman, the Martin family is dentist stated, all fillings in this girl's mouth match

(39:33):
Susan's.
Susan had been wearing red and white petal pushers and a blue quilted coat.
Stop it.
Yeah.
Also more red and white.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
But like this primary color scheme I like that she's got going on.

(39:53):
Yeah.
Blue and blue.
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Charles Larson, a pathologist from Tacoma was summoned to perform her autopsy.
Eventually, the underwater searches were called off when it diver very nearly perished
in the efforts to discover the fate of the Martin family.

(40:14):
Ooh.
That's so scary.
Yeah.
I mean, it's, I think, a very risky endeavor.
I think, I mean, very much to this day you are taking your life in your own hands when you
go diving.
And I mean, not to put anybody at a heightened sense of alarm.

(40:38):
But it is a risky thing to do.
And of course, there are people that are like trained experts, but it makes sense that at
that point they would decide, you know, does the benefit outweigh the potential harm.
Right.
Yeah, you don't want to lose anyone else as much as you want to know what happened, but
you kind of at this point already have an answer.

(41:01):
So like why do you need to keep looking if it's so risky?
I mean, there are three remaining family members that have never been found along with the vehicle.
So I can understand why they continued, but I do think that, you know, if you can't do
it safely, you can do, yeah, it's a tough call.

(41:26):
I wouldn't want to be the one that makes that call.
I will say that.
No.
Still, not all was lost as it turns out though police work was at times tedious and thankless,
Detective Walter Graven was quite dedicated.
However, his efforts would continually be met by frustration after devastating frustration,

(41:49):
further freezing the case with time.
Detective Walter Graven is said to have never abandoned the case.
Following his personal effects, a notebook full of his notes pertaining to the case was preserved
stowed away in this case.
One excerpt indicated he might have suspected he was on the right track with a particular

(42:13):
suspect in the case.
Stating about the Martin family's disappearance and presumed demise that it has to be planned
by, but unfortunately, the name was blacked out.
If it was a name, redacted.
So it's impossible to read.

(42:34):
And after he died in 1988, his suspicions went with him to the grave.
Why was it blacked out?
Uh, uh, did he do it?
Did someone else come through and look through his stuff and redact it?
It's hard to say.
I would assume he did it.
Yeah, I would assume too, because like why wouldn't they just like burn it or whatever,

(42:56):
but.
Well, and it's stowed away inside a suitcase, you know, this is like a movie.
Oh, totally.
I mean, it really is.
Though notably, his ambition to solve the case lived on as his grandson regaled local news
media with some stories that he had shared over the years.

(43:17):
So this is a case that literally stayed with him until he had grandchildren.
Yeah.
And then he like passed the dedication on to his grandchildren.
Yeah.
Or at least one of them.
I mean, it was certainly something that stuck with them.
I don't believe that his grandson entered, you know, the law enforcement field, but.

(43:41):
Oh, yeah.
Like the stories.
Yeah.
But it's, it's had an impact on him.
And I'm thinking we may have a little Patreon mini-saud that sort of touches on some
more modern aspects of the case.
Okay.
Yeah.
But there was still one remaining member of the Martin family.

(44:04):
And as is the case in any murder investigation, the detective had to explore every possible
suspect and lead to try to determine what happened.
Oh, this is where Donald suddenly becomes a far more intriguing character in our story.
I kind of forgot about Donald until you just said that.

(44:25):
Yeah.
Of course, he'd been far away from his family at the time of the disappearance.
He's, it was a verifiable fact.
I mean, at the time he was enlisted in the Navy and he was stationed in New York State at
Fort Skylar.
Couldn't really get a whole lot further away unless he went international.

(44:47):
Right.
Okay.
Besides, surely he wouldn't have had any involvement in the disappearance of his entire family, right?
I would hope not.
Yeah.
I mean, why would he wish harm on any of the people that he'd grown up with?
I don't know.

(45:07):
I could think of reasons, but I don't want to say.
Now, it's entirely possible that he didn't have any ill will towards his own family.
I feel like that would be kind of the default setting.
Hopefully.
Right.
After all, he was never arrested in connection with a crime related to his family's disappearance.

(45:34):
Though that's not to say that he had never committed a crime.
I knew you were going to say that.
In fact, he'd stolen thousands from his previous employer, Meyer and Frank, about five years
prior.
Is that why they're out of business now?
It is not.

(45:56):
Not related.
But I mean, it's not a good sign for the future.
No.
I mean, it certainly didn't help.
That's awful.
Yeah.
At the time, he blamed it on problems at home.
And though he wasn't arrested, it seems the store may have been repaid by the family in

(46:20):
order to avoid entanglement with legal system.
Okay.
Interesting.
So at home, you mean his family family or like his girlfriend at home?
Yes.
Okay.
Because this is when he was still living with the family.
Okay.
Yeah.
A five-year-old theft hardly equates to motive for family annihilation.

(46:46):
But of course, there are more details that have resulted in a few raised eyebrows in the
years that followed.
It wasn't until June 3rd, 1959 that Donald returned to Oregon.
His family went missing in December.
That is six months.

(47:06):
Okay.
So you think he would return sooner?
Yeah.
And it's going to come up.
I'm only saying that just because I want to make sure that like, because like, I can tell
I'm like, you've been like on the edge of your seat and stuff, but like some of the dates
and like other details.
I'm like, I just want to make sure that's like.
Thank you.

(47:27):
Because in the back of my mind, I was stuck on like an ADHD thing.
And I was thinking how like Oregon ducks and he's Donald.
Donald?
And I was like trying so hard to pay attention to what you were saying.
I feel like I was pick up on it.
Well, I was like, okay, she didn't react to the June 3rd thing.

(47:48):
And I was like, I feel like maybe the dates aren't fresh enough.
So I was like, okay, I'm going to say it.
And we can totally like cut that whole bit out or whatever.
I don't know.
But I was like, it fits a fit.
If it fits, it sits.
Yeah.
No, I also think I needed a second to like process.
Yeah, the dates to see it.

(48:08):
Like yeah, okay, yeah, he should have been there sooner because his whole family disappeared.
I mean, you could make the argument.
He's enlisted in the military and like they don't get to come and go as they please.
But historically, if there's a death in the family, you kind of get a pass for that.

(48:29):
Yeah.
And unless he was stuck on a boat or something, but Navy, it was Navy out on the boat.
Yeah, that's the Navy.
He was that board skiler.
He wasn't on a boat.
Okay.
Okay.
Actively that I'm aware of.
I see.
He reportedly claimed that he didn't return home sooner because his aunt Charlotte told
him at the time of the disappearance that there was nothing more that he could do back home

(48:53):
by leaving his military post.
Which sounds reasonable.
Yeah.
And his aunt denied having made this statement or discouraging his immediate return.
Okay.
So he said she said.
Yeah.
And I'm sorry, but she's like a second grade school teacher.
So why would she lie?

(49:13):
Uh, on it, she doesn't have any reason to lie.
Yeah.
My voice got really high there because she wouldn't lie.
Maybe this was a miscommunication of some sort, though when Donald did make his way back
to Oregon, he didn't attend the funeral held for his family due to a scheduling misunderstanding.

(49:41):
Well, what else are you doing?
Uh, dude.
Yeah.
I mean, that's the first of many questions that I have.
Yeah.
That's weird.
I mean, I don't know.
Everyone grieves different.
Maybe he just couldn't handle it.
And so he was like, okay, well, like I have this other thing.

(50:03):
I said, like really important.
I got to do that instead.
I got to go do that.
So I don't know.
Maybe it's one of those things where, yeah, some people just like can't, some people just
can't handle it.
I don't know.
It's happened recently in my family where someone didn't come to a funeral.
So.

(50:23):
And it's tough, but I would say, I mean, my God, this is the entirety of your immediate family.
Yeah.
Again, like you said, everybody grieves differently.
And I've seen on a very personal level, like the, a number of the wide variety of iterations

(50:46):
of what grief looks like.
But that seems bizarre.
Yeah.
That seems bizarre.
While he was there, he did plan to settle his inheritance due to the presumption that the
rest of his family was dead.

(51:06):
Donald had noticed there were missing financial documents as he'd gone through the home and
family's belongings while he was there.
So it takes seven long years to get through probate.
As required by law, there was a seven year waiting period to establish the presumption

(51:29):
of death of the parents.
Once that period had come and gone, there was a $14,000 life insurance policy to settle.
Is that because they didn't find their bodies?
Right.
Wow.
Okay.
Interesting.
Yeah.
And remember, I had said early on that the home was valued at approximately $15,000 and

(51:55):
there was $15,000 in cash and/or other valuables.
That's why I think it's so interesting thinking about, okay, well, what were the other valuables?
Obviously, not the car.
Never remembered.
Right.
Yeah.
How much cash did they have?

(52:23):
I don't know.
So you're saying like it sounds like that stuff is missing or well, no, what I'm saying is
presumably if there was a lot of cash on hand, there's a house that obviously has a significant
monetary value and then additionally down the line, once the probate process is all negotiated,

(52:49):
there's also a $14,000 life insurance policy.
I see.
Okay.
I mean, I didn't do the math or an inflation calculator, but I have to imagine that roughly
$45,000 from 1959.
Right.
Yeah, that's a lot.

(53:10):
It's a lot.
So that's a good little payout for the one surviving member of the family.
Correct.
But was it true that something was a miss in the Martin family home?
He's saying there's documents and specifically potentially financial documents that have gone

(53:33):
missing.
And in the year since the disappearance, a neighbor had come forward to authorities to
provide additional information in the case.
A black taxi had pulled into the driveway of the Martin family home on the morning after
the disappearance.
However, the main investigator did not get this information until six months later.

(54:00):
The information only seemed relevant to the neighbor in hindsight as they became aware
of the Martin family's disappearance.
Because otherwise, why is that something that you would, I mean, give more than a second
thought to?
Right.
That would be like, if you'd notice every Uber.
Yeah.
Obviously, taxis coming in and out of your neighborhood were probably far less frequent

(54:26):
than that.
Especially like a black taxi.
I don't know.
Yeah.
That seems like a fancy taxi.
Yeah, I'm not sure if that was a different point in history.
Taxis have had a different aesthetic.
I don't know if that was a regional thing or like to a town car, ordering a town car or

(54:52):
whatever.
Kind of.
Yeah.
I agree.
It was interesting.
I didn't dig super deep on that.
But if it was true, it lent credence to Donald suspicions that perhaps someone had been in
the home and even removed important financial information or other documents.

(55:13):
So how does he know that they're missing?
Like how does he know about them?
That was kind of my first question.
Hard to say.
What kind of documents?
Yeah.
If you know they're missing, you know what they are.
What are they?
Right.
What are they?
Exactly.
Yeah.
I feel like more than anything, this just really opens a lot more follow up questions.

(55:37):
As the sole surviving member of the immediate Martin family, Donald did stand to benefit financially
from the family's estate and remaining assets.
His sister's bodies that had been recovered were quickly cremated after their remains were
discovered.
Okay.
That doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

(55:59):
Yeah.
I mean, at different points in history and depending on sort of the era and the circumstances
of potential crime, I feel like there are certain lengths of time that you would expect
that bond enforcement would sort of hold over.

(56:21):
And they would say, you know, no, we're not going to allow you.
If you want to have your loved one cremated, that's fine.
We're not here to tell you what to do in that regard.
But you are going to have to wait a certain length of time before we will allow that because

(56:42):
if there's evidence or sort of a suspicion of a crime, like we have to be able to gather
all of that evidence and solved.
Right.
Of course, you know, autopsies were performed, but and quickly is relative, quickly in the
1950s versus quickly now.

(57:06):
I don't know precisely what that time window looked like, but it was flagged.
It was flagged, you know, by people that were familiar with the story and in a lot of the
reporting, probably because at least in part due to the fact that they were held in their

(57:26):
urns at the mausoleum for 10 years, which I'm given to understand means that Donald never
claimed them.
So he like, he had to say the okay for them to get cremated, right?
Right.
So that he was like, okay, cremate them and then didn't pick them up.
So obviously he didn't really care.

(57:47):
I don't know.
And he's in the military, right?
I guess.
I guess that could account for a certain amount of some of these things, but they were held
by the facility in their urns for 10 years.
That's a lot of years.
You're not too busy for 10 years just to at least pick up a phone call and say, hey, can

(58:14):
you FedEx me my dead relative?
Ma'am.
This only came to light when his grandmother passed away just a few days after Christmas in 1969
as her funeral and other arrangements were being made.
It was then decided that all three would be buried and interred together.

(58:36):
No.
And this is another thing that gets a little bit weird.
It sort of goes back to that what you were saying about, you know, people grieve in different
ways.
He reportedly never shared the details of what had happened to his family when he started

(58:58):
a family of his own across the country.
He continued to live outside the state of Oregon and married his wife Helen at age 36.
They went on to raise a family of their own.
Donald was said to initially have been alienated from the family by his parents disapproval.

(59:19):
As Evan said that whether he came out to them or they merely suspected it, they believed
he was gay.
Oh, interesting.
Donald had reportedly been sent to a religious school in Connecticut where they attempted
to convert him.
Oh, that's rough, dude.

(59:40):
Yeah.
Is it possible that his family might have done such a thing?
I mean, it seems like there is evidence or some sort of, you know, statements made by people
that knew the family that indicate yes, that's what happened.
Wow.
Sadly, at the time, certainly, very possible.

(01:00:05):
And unfortunately today, very possibly, might they have sent him to a reform school simply
because he'd been caught stealing?
That's admittedly also a possibility.
Mmm, but there's also one last thing.
No, I don't want anymore.
I'm done.
Well done.

(01:00:25):
You're going to want to know.
One of the items that Donald had stolen dating back to his days at Myron Frank.
Was it gun that matched the description of the one found under the rock in the cascade
blocks?
The bloody gun.

(01:00:46):
It even had the same serial number.
Okay.
It had already been cleaned by the man who found it after being returned by the authorities.
Of course.
The main investigator, Walter Groven, began to speculate that even though Donald was
across the country, maybe he could have hired someone to carry out the deed.

(01:01:09):
Maybe even two ex-cons?
And that's where I'm going to actually leave this one.
Wow.
I know.
But ending was like such a twist.
I know.
I know.
It's like just, I guess just because these people died presumably tragically that they were

(01:01:30):
good people, but still doesn't mean that they deserved to die the way they died.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
Also, the kids.
I'm sure the kids don't have anything to do with that.
Right.
They're blameless regardless of whatever their parents might have done.
And I mean, obviously at this point, even if they had not been in the vehicle when it was,

(01:01:56):
I mean, this is one theory, obviously, when it was submerged in the Columbia River, more
than likely, all three of the remaining family members that were not previously found, they
would probably be dead.
I mean, I suppose with the exception of Barbie because she was only 14 at the time.

(01:02:21):
So she very much, you know, she could still be alive at this point.
If she had survived whatever happened to the rest of the family, but there's a lot of,
there's a lot of different ways this case could go.
But I think the fact that, you know, there are so many obvious tie-ins.

(01:02:46):
This gun that's discovered right by the stolen vehicle, the X-con, and that gun happens to
be more than likely the gun that Donald stole from Iron Frank.
I just honestly, obviously, they were never able to piece together enough to feel like there

(01:03:14):
was a case that they could win.
Did they have enough for a case at some point?
I think possibly, but DA likes to go for a case that they think they can win.
That seems like a hot, this one seems hard.
Yeah.
There's a lot of things that feel like, ooh, but then it, it's like, it goes back to, like

(01:03:42):
I said, at the top, it really is a lot of very circumstantial things.
Yeah, you're right.
Yeah.
I know.
Who knew?
It's like I wrote this thing.
It's like you researched the shit out of this or something.
I mean, it's a wild one though.
It does.

(01:04:03):
And there are some things that I read that make it sound even a little bit more salacious.
There are some things that I was like, I'm not sure that I'm seeing that echoed throughout
the source material.
So I don't know if I feel confident enough to say to include that.

(01:04:25):
But there were some other kind of things that were rumored that I was like, ooh, boy.
If it's true, it gets even wilder.
But whoo.
Well, let's go to Patreon and talk about it.
Right?
See you in the Patreon.
See what the post.
Should we do in tarot?

(01:04:48):
Yeah, should we do some tarot about it?
Let's do it.
I'm ready.
Bitchin.
I'm gonna have nothing to do with it because I'm not in your vicinity, but I'll send you
my powers and vibes.
You guys.
I'm doing witchy mind powers to you.

(01:05:08):
Oh, shuffling is hard.
Okay.
I'll send you my vibes and you'll film through your fingertips.
Oh, it's the ten of cups.
Okay.
In reverse.
Oh, it looks like monkeys.

(01:05:30):
Is it monkeys?
Nope, not a monkey.
I can't tell it's blurry.
It's birds.
Oh, are they on a tree?
Yeah.
Okay, okay.
I thought it was like monkeys on a tree.
I see it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How many birds are there?
Four.
So numerically, it doesn't fully align for me, but we'll see.

(01:05:53):
We'll see.
You said it was a four of cups?
No, the ten of cups.
Oh, okay.
Oh, ten of cups is like the family card.
That's really interesting.
Yeah.
Oh, oh, shit.
Okay.
Wow.
Okay.
I just always feel like cups is like I'm trying to sort of create a little bit of like muscle

(01:06:18):
memory for myself about like kind of broad strokes themes and things like that.
And cups to me just is so positive that I'm always a little bit like, okay.
It is reversed though.
It is reversed.
That's one is kind of.
Yeah.
Boy, howdy.
I skimmed real quick and okay.

(01:06:44):
Keywords are comfort, happiness, domestic bliss, love and harmony.
A card of fulfillment, the ten of cups represents a happy home where love and harmony abide.
One deck show a contented couple gazing at their beautiful home while their children play.

(01:07:05):
Others picture the pair with flowers, rainbows and other symbols of love and hope.
You could think of this as the happy ever after card.
I feel like that was like obviously just very much how they were being portrayed on the
outside or how everything looked on the outside at least.
Yeah.

(01:07:26):
I totally agree.
Like even when you were talking about it, we were always like, oh that's so wholesome.
Like dressed up like Santa.
Yeah.
It definitely has a very, it's a wholesome vibe.
It's like very Brady Bunch.

(01:07:47):
It's very of that era, which obviously the Brady Bunch I really came a little bit later.
But you know what I mean?
It's a vibe.
The reverse ten may point to disharmony or disappointments in your home life.
Things haven't turned out the way you'd expected.

(01:08:08):
I feel like it was obviously was the perfect card.
Sometimes it suggests a family that puts too much emphasis on stuff and not enough on
love.
God.
In some cases, this card may represent the loss of a home or children leaving home.

(01:08:32):
Wow.
There was like all of that going on.
The oldest left home to go to the Navy.
Yeah, which I feel like at that point in his life, that's a normal thing to do, but wow.
But then like yeah, losing children and they were the only one who were found too.
That's also interesting.

(01:08:52):
But only, wait, it was three children, right?
And only two of them were found.
Two of them were found.
Yeah.
The two younger of the three girls.
In a reading about money, the ten reverse can mean having to scale down your expenditures
and lifestyle.
Sometimes it shows declining property values or squabbles over an inheritance.

(01:09:17):
Whoa, or like having to pay for the fact that your son stole a bunch of shit too.
I mean, it all fits.
Oh my God.
Holy shit.
Holy shit.
Are we still so powerful from a distance?
I think so.
Okay.
If the reading is about your job, this card says you're not as secure as you'd like to be.

(01:09:44):
Sometimes within a company may threaten your position or company may grow too fast or
overextend itself requiring you to work extra hard.
I'm going to go ahead and say it because I don't think I stated it in so many words, but
I think it goes without saying that Donald was fired from my iron Frank.

(01:10:06):
Right.
I would assume.
Yeah.
So I would say that matches up with problems within a company.
Yeah, I think so.
I think so.
Your position.
Whoa.
Okay.
Oh, this is very interesting.
Okay.
I'm not going to say anything.

(01:10:26):
I want to get your take on this.
Okay.
Okay.
In a reading about love, a partner may not share your values or may have different ideas
about family life.
If you don't get along with the in-laws or kids from a former relationship cause problems.
I don't know.
My first thought was like not love is in like a relationship, but like love is in this

(01:10:51):
is their family life and the parents don't agree.
Maybe with how the sun wants to live his life.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I feel like there's part of me that reads into this.
And again, it's hard to know if Donald was actually someone who was gay.

(01:11:13):
I mean, he married a woman and had children, but that was not an uncommon thing for a gay
man to do at that point in history.
Right.
Especially if you freaking family tries to convert you if that happens.
Right.
Right.
It sounds I don't have any reason to doubt that his family did try to convert him and that

(01:11:37):
they were disapproving of that quote lifestyle.
I think it does speak to just sort of a difference in values or as it says, different ideas about
family life.

(01:12:01):
Or ultimately because if you are a gay man that is living closeted and you know, you're
living with a partner and creating a family, ultimately that could speak to some conflict
in the relationship that you have with that partner.
Yeah.

(01:12:25):
I was totally thinking of his wife and wow.
I was trying to think too.
Did you mention in-laws?
I think you said the word in-laws in that statement, having trouble with your in-laws.
It says maybe you don't get along with the in-laws.
Pretty hard to not get along with the in-laws when they are dead.
Right.
Yeah.

(01:12:46):
Presumably.
I mean, at this point they certainly are regardless of what happened to them.
Legally, yeah.
I mean, legally or otherwise.
It's been a number of years and they were both born in the early 1900s.
They are certainly dead.
Yeah.
I keep forgetting kind of how old this is.

(01:13:07):
Right.
Right.
I know.
Yeah.
It's because like you said, it feels like it could be happening recently.
Yeah.
It's kind of wild.
Wow, I can't believe what I mean, I can't believe what a perfect card you've pulled, but still.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
It's just like the whole family vibe and it was about a family and yeah.

(01:13:31):
It feels like I mean, dead on.
It really does.
Oh, I want to know the short story and like what kind of birds they were.
Because I'm selfish.
I was going to say, of course, you do.
I want to know.
Okay.
So, blah, blah, blah.
It's, I mean, honestly, it's all the same keywords.

(01:13:52):
So I'll just read the little short story that's kind of, it serves as our interpretation.
What kind of birds are they?
They are violet, green, swallows.
Swallows.
Swallows.
You told me to swallow earlier.
Yeah, sorry about that.
The sun shower had felt good, washing the swallow's feathers clean after too long cooped up in

(01:14:16):
a nest that would be generously described as cozy.
But now that the summer rain was finally letting up, she was so ready to take to the air
to stretch her wings and judging by their hungry chirping, again, already.
Her chicks were ready for her to go to.

(01:14:37):
Her blitzed flicked outward from her wing tips as she rapidly beat the air, expertly intercepting
insects to deliver to hungry beaks.
Each time she returned, her mate eyed her admirably from the back of the nest.
Happy to see her back and happy to watch over the hatchlings while she was away.

(01:15:00):
Aww.
I was like, this motherfucker get off your ass.
That makes sense, yeah.
It's still the wholesome vibe.
Yeah.
She knew one day her chicks would fly off, migrate on their own paths, perhaps find their
own mates and nests.
But that was for another season.

(01:15:21):
For now, they were happy and safe, caring for each other.
At this moment that constant chirping was the most beautiful sound she could imagine.
Aww.
It made me sad.
It did remind me though, like talking about the water in the rain, that the cups are water.
And the water had a lot to do with this.

(01:15:44):
Yes, it definitely did.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Ooh.
I've gotten the chili willy as a couple of times.
Oh, I was just thinking about how like it said that you know your children are going to
find a mate and move out on their own.
What if that mate isn't the person that you think is right for your child?

(01:16:06):
Like it just reminded me of that too.
Yeah.
Like everything's perfect and nice until it's not.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's sort of where my head went to as well.
And ultimately he kind of went off on his own.
And I mean the thing about it is that part of me does wonder because you know his parents

(01:16:31):
and you know his siblings were long dead by the time that he married.
So you know it's possible that he still just felt like that was necessary to do, to be
able to live and you know somewhat like assemblies of a normal life in society.

(01:16:53):
But I feel like you know if he had cut all of those ties whether by his own hand or just
by you know that is what was determined you know by fate.
I can't help but wonder you know why would he have gone through with you know sort of
it.

(01:17:15):
I think what most of us would refer to is kind of a sham marriage if that was the case.
But or maybe he was just like a bisexual and was like yeah I like do that.
But I also ended up falling in love with a woman and completely like have a normal not I
don't want to say normal but I have like a loving marriage is what I do by normal.

(01:17:35):
Yeah but like a happy and healthy well-adjusted relationship.
Yeah.
You know I steer heavily on this one and I think there are certain things that they feel
more likely than you know some of the other theories that I've heard.
There are a number in this case.

(01:17:58):
But I don't think there's any I don't think there's any one theory that feels like it kind of
totally fits like yeah.
Did they get driven off the edge of a cliff by Xconvex and if so was that just because those

(01:18:21):
people were in the wrong place at the wrong time you know was that sort of a hit man squad
that was hired by Donald.
I mean I don't know.
Did you know the gun for someone else like if someone else out there like another unsolved
murder that they don't know even know about.
I know that was kind of something that came across.

(01:18:43):
Yeah like there are so many questions so many questions.
Did they DNA test the blood on the gun and like save it?
Cassie.
Did they did not have DNA testing back then?
No.
I don't know the time.
No.
And it was already cleaned.
In 1959 they did not have DNA testing.

(01:19:04):
I don't know when that came about.
I really don't.
Like in our lifetime like when we were like actual living breathing people.
Like the 90s?
Yes.
It was in its infancy in the 90s so it wasn't good.
You know the times where I'm like were cars invented yet?

(01:19:25):
I have a really hard time with the time line.
Well and we've I mean we've kind of covered like through this because I mean the parents were
born early in the 1900s.
You know we've been talking about kind of the 50s.
This really it covers multiple decades because by the time by the time they figured out

(01:19:47):
that like holy shit the sisters remains were never claimed.
That's like almost 1970.
Wow.
So I mean details of this case span multiple multiple decades.
And the article that I was kind of intrigued by just it's interesting to hear a little bit

(01:20:08):
more.
It's actually dated to 2009.
Wow.
Yeah.
So.
I mean that's like old.
It sounds like it's not that old but it is.
Yeah.
That's you know roughly 15 years.
Yeah.

(01:20:29):
It's like if I can quickly do math in my head it's like 15.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know it's wild.
We're coming on 2025.
And we're coming on 2025.
Come actually when this is out it's New Year's Eve.
I think we decided we're going to put this out on New Year's Eve.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Happy 2025.

(01:20:49):
Oh.
We're going to have a good year.
I really hope so.
Because 2024 didn't turn out the way any of us wanted it while some of us wanted it but
not enough.
Not enough of us wanted the different outcome apparently.
It's really strange how that worked out.

(01:21:13):
So we're just going to move on 2025.
You know what we're going to focus on us this year.
Fuck everyone else.
Except for the creepy people.
It's us and the creepy people this year.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Should we do our outro thingy?
Yeah.
Let's do it.
Okay.

(01:21:33):
Have a creepy year.
Have a creepy year.
Have a creepy year.
See you next year.
See you next year.
See you next year.
Oh my god.
Don't have a 2025.
That's as creepy as 2024 though.
I have a feeling it's all like going to get creepier.

(01:21:54):
Well, we're here.
And not in that good way.
We're here for you.
We're here for us.
You're here for us.
We're here for you.
How about us?
We can do this.
You guys.
We totally get.
Put a pin in that.

(01:22:16):
You know, it'll be important later.
Actually, it's literally important right now.
I'm just going to say the whole thing again.
Okay.
Yeah.
Just leave the pin alone.
No pins.
No sharp objects.
[laughter] www.pnwhauntsandhomicides.com