Young Thug and the Trial Fiasco!

Young Thug is a global rap phenomenon who was indicted on RICO charges out of Fulton County, with the same prosecutor who is going after Trump with the same RICO charges. The jury selection and beginning of the trial has been rife with chaos, viral moments, and blunders, and we're here to break it all down! This will be a multi-part series, and we will be sure to keep you updated on the entirety of the Young Thug trial!

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Pocketball Talks.

(00:14):
This is your host, Brett.
Over the way as usual, the controls is Devin.
Hey, how's it going?
Before we jump into things a little bit, we have a little extra time between episodes
this time.
We don't go into what's going on here all that much.
Devin is in school, so he was off for finals.
I had a big trial in the midst of that, so that's why a little bit of gap in our episodes.

(00:38):
I want to give a little shout out to Devin.
He officially got into his school of business.
I don't know why we're putting that in here.
So very proud of him for that.
Today we're going to jump into a different topic than what some of the things we've been
talking about in recent times.
Here's a young gentleman by the name of...

(00:58):
Young Thug.
He's a big superstar rapper.
He's been big since I was a kid.
He's worked with the likes of Drake, Elton John.
Four or five years ago, his album So Much Fun had debuted at number one on the Billboard
Top 200.
He's consistently putting out songs that are always at the top.
If you've listened to the radio at any point, especially in the 2000 and teens to the 2020s,

(01:23):
you've heard him on there.
Anybody who likes rap knows about him for sure.
How old is he?
I couldn't tell you.
Maybe in his mid-30s.
I'm going to look.
Why don't you keep going?
So he's huge.
And he's also known for his bold fashion statements and taking a part of his feminine side.
Because of that, there's been questions called in about his sexuality and whatnot.

(01:48):
And he's just a very dynamic person.
He's 32.
Yeah.
I knew he's not that old.
He's not that old at all.
I mean, I think he started rapping when he was like 16.
At what point, though, can you not use young?
I mean, maybe it's a mindset.
I don't know how they'd put it.
Old thug.
At some point, he turns to old thug.
Maybe when he gets out of prison, he's considered old thug if he gets convicted.

(02:10):
So yeah, we're going to talk about today.
He's in a little hot water in Hotlana.
Yeah.
So this same prosecutor, Fannie Willis, this is the exact same prosecutor that's going
after Trump on that Rico indictment in Georgia, Fulton County.
That's crazy.
I didn't even think about that fact that imagine having both of these things going on at the

(02:31):
same time because as the prosecutor.
Yeah, that's the one that's pushed trying to push the trial right now.
Yeah, it's sink or swim for her.
Like it like if she succeeds on both of these, she's probably going to be a superstar.
She fails on both of these.
Yeah.
What?
She didn't even have any opposition when she ran.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So she was like elected by default.
That's a crazy thing.

(02:51):
And you know, having at one point worked in a prosecutor's office, there's always cases
that hit the office that are high profile.
And usually, you know, sometimes people think that, well, the elected prosecutor's got to
do all the stuff.
The elected prosecutor rarely is the one that's trying the cases.
There's usually a couple of dynamos in the office that are sort of well known for being

(03:13):
the best trial lawyers.
They'll get assigned these gems.
Why wouldn't you want the elected prosecutor being like a fire trial lawyer?
Well, being a being a you would think the elected is the best of the best.
Well, being an awesome trial lawyer does not necessarily go hand in hand with being an
awesome politician.
Those are definitely two different trials.

(03:33):
So you think lead are the elected prosecutor is more of a politician than they are a prosecutor?
Depends.
And in my time as a prosecutor, I'd say I worked under some that I thought were really
good trial lawyers and some that I thought that got elected because they were really
good politicians.
You know, I would say and I don't go into too many personal names, but before I worked

(03:54):
in Marion County, there was a gentleman by the name of Scott Newman.
He was the elected prosecutor in Marion County.
He was very much a well respected trial lawyer before he got elected as prosecutor.
And so sometimes it goes hand in hand.
But once you get the job of elected prosecutor in a major metropolitan area like Atlanta,

(04:14):
it's different because everybody wants you to be part of everything.
Right.
So, well, yeah, what do they do most of their time if they're not trying trials?
Well, I mean, it's like Safe Streets Coalition is going to want you to be on that board.
Community Corrections wants you to be on their board.
Oh, so you're just on a lot of boards?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
A lot and lots of governmental like the mental health court wants you to become their meetings,

(04:35):
you know.
So the elected prosecutor is is a in a figurehead position in some extent, but also they want
them to be a part of everything that has to do with the criminal justice system.
Judges want them to come to judges meetings.
They get pulled in a million different directions.
So some elected prosecutors will sit on these big cases and actually prosecute themselves.

(04:56):
Sometimes they'll sit on these big cases and they'll play minor roles in the trial.
They're just there to be present because it's a big deal.
Some of them will not even be in the courtroom while the big cases are going on.
But usually there's and different officers are called different things and some in some
jurisdictions are called prosecutors, sometimes some jurisdictions they're called district
attorneys.
And in each of those jurisdictions, there's either deputy prosecutors or assistant district

(05:20):
attorneys.
Same with the federal system.
There's a assistant USA's US attorneys.
Those are the those are kind of the soldiers, if you will.
There are the ones that are in the in the line of fire down in the trenches fighting
these cases out on a day to day basis.
But these ones to get high notoriety, take a tremendous amount of resources and energy.

(05:43):
It's very hard on these offices.
This this how long this young thug, how long did jury selection take?
Jury selection took 10 months.
I do also want to say before you get into the thick of it that there is an underlying
controversy.
Well, there's a lot related to this case.
But the main one and this really calls into question Fannie Willis in general, before she
was that's the prosecutor.
That's the that's the elected prosecutor.

(06:05):
It's not the prosecutor that is trying him, though, there is another prosecutor.
I think there's almost all of the case.
Yeah, she's probably honestly paying more attention to the Trump case.
Yeah.
Of course, now there's she has a special investigation that was opened up to her because it says
that she colluded with the January 6th committee against Trump than it but unrelated to Trump.

(06:26):
Before she was elected, she tried to open her own law practice.
And she had a client who is now or was a defendant of young who would who would have been a defendant
of young thug in this Rico case.
OK, that client she was having sexual relationships with.
Well, that's not appropriate.
And that client is not charged in this Rico case.

(06:48):
That's one of the things being said, at least that's an allegation.
Well, there is proof that she definitely like had a relationship.
Well represented him and had a relationship.
Yes.
So so they're calling into question why he wasn't charged.
Maybe if that's what started all of this.
And that's the bad.
That's a tough thing of being an elected prosecutor.
When you may, that job requires and we're going to actually just sort of preface a future

(07:12):
episode we're going to we're going to do an episode here down the road on the powers of
what it means to be a prosecutor, because it's a hugely powerful position.
But what does come with that is when you attack big names, they don't just sit by and defend
themselves.
They attack.
Yeah.
And Trump's doing that.

(07:32):
And it sounds like young folks doing that just an extent to.
Well, not even just them, but I think they're they're supporters.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, of course, young Doug isn't going to want to say anything slanderous to her.
He's taking the quiet route.
He's not doing the up and arms like Trump is, but his base is doing that for him.
Yeah, no.
And so is Trump's.
I mean, they're all they're going to get on TV and call her whatever.

(07:54):
You know what I mean?
Like the young Doug isn't going to do that.
Yeah, but they all will claim that they're the subject of a witch hunt.
Yeah.
And then try to show that the prosecutor is making biases or doing things for the wrong
reasons.
And it can be a real thankless job when you're prosecuting somebody that's got sort of that
celebrity status.
Yeah.
So another person that was in this highly, highly, highly politicized case is Ghana.

(08:19):
And Ghana last year, he took an Alfred plea deal.
That'd be G-U-N-N-A.
Yep, he took an Alfred plea deal, which basically means that he isn't admitting fault, but that
he admits that the evidence against him would be enough to secure a guilty and or convict
him at least.
And with that, he admitted that this group was a gang in front of the judge.

(08:41):
And so because of that, he's they tried to blackball him from the industry.
He's the only one from Atlanta that released an album this year.
So there's been a lot of people in the rap game mad that, you know, he's getting all
this notoriety, so to speak, and hasn't fallen off like they want him to.
But Ghana was brought into the light by Young Thug and Young.
These two were considered like actual brothers.
There would be no Ghana without Young Thug.

(09:03):
And so the fact that Ghana kind of turned on him and especially because Ghana had the
least amount of charges out of everybody.
Like I think his charges would have amounted up to like six months.
And so the fact that he did that was huge and is still being talked about to this day.
It would be interesting to know behind the scenes.
They probably tried to pressure him in doing way more than that.

(09:23):
Right.
Like they probably tried to get him to testify about specific events.
And so probably end up being a compromise for him to say, OK, I know it just was a gang.
That's important.
And we'll talk a little bit about that when we get into the end of the the Rico charges
that you mentioned that the Alfred Pooley.
You'll hear things all the time.

(09:43):
We're talking about legal stuff like Miranda and when you hear about evidence that is exculpatory,
there's a name for that.
That's all they're all based on the last names of the defendants who appealed these cases
and created new case law.
Sculpatory was a last name.

(10:03):
No, no, no.
Sculpatory evidence is a type of it's called Brady material.
Oh, OK.
Brady.
Yeah.
The guy that took the case to appeal that created a rule that if there's exculpatory
evidence, the prosecution must turn it over.
If if not, it's now called a Brady violation because Brady is the last name of the guy
that took that up.
Miranda warnings where somebody has to be read all the rights before they can be interviewed

(10:26):
in a custodial situation is just the last name of the guy that took it up when somebody
got a confession without from him without reading him his rights first.
So they became Miranda warnings.
Now, that's the same thing.
They I don't know the exact background of Alfred, but Alfred probably took a plea without
acknowledging his his guilt.

(10:48):
And that was either shot down or whatever.
It went up to the Court of Appeals and they said, no, you can do that, at least in that
state.
And now it's called an Alfred plea.
The Alfred pleas are more commonly called and other just diction is one of those fancy
Latin phrases that make attorneys be able to have their jobs.
No low contendre and no low contendre means you're just pleading no contest.

(11:10):
We do not have that.
Oh, we don't have any contest at all.
No, no, no.
In the end, you have to admit guilt.
It's all that out then very it's something, you know, as a as a defense attorney and prosecutors,
we probably would like to have that tool because you can say, all right, yeah, you you you
you can probably prove me guilty, but I'm not I don't think I did it and I'm not going

(11:34):
to admit I did it, but I'll take I'll take a hit for it.
Now, of course, it doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter when it comes to the charges and the conviction that they're going to get
the time that they're going to do, how it's going to look on them later in life.
Like it's going to still treat it as a conviction.
Yeah, I don't know, low contendre, but you get to maintain your innocence.
And in the end, if you maintain your innocence, you're pleased rejected.
So you have to say I did the crime.

(11:55):
If you don't think you did the crime, you're supposed to go to trial.
That's how Indiana looks at it.
So it is different than these other.
I can't afford the trial.
Go after yourself.
So we got public defenders for.
OK, screw yourself literally.
Well, I mean, that's a mixed bag.
You know, you got good and bad, like in every profession.
I don't blame them at all.
I mean, they're just too busy.
Oh, yeah, for sure.

(12:16):
They're overworked.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When you're getting $500 for a case that's going to take you a week to try or whatever,
that's that a normal attorney would probably get eight, nine, ten thousand.
Yeah, that's that makes it very difficult.
But these no low contendre, please, are something that exists, I'd say, probably in about half
the jurisdictions gives you an option to resolve your case without having to admit your guilt.
And that's what happened where this guy it's really interesting because if they if he did

(12:43):
a Alford plea.
Then he shouldn't have had to admit to anything.
But then they got him to admit to this.
What's the name of the organization?
YSL is in being a gang.
So basically the way there was a video of it, it was videotaped and the judge was basically
like by accepting this Alford plea, you will have to admit that YSL was a gang.

(13:04):
And the only thing that he said was yes.
Yeah.
So that was the term of his plea.
So the prosecutor gave him whatever he gave him in return for getting admission, not to
his guilt of whatever that crime was, but to the fact that this organization was a gang
and something that he was obviously he or she was going to utilize to create this much

(13:25):
this massive indictment that came later.
Yeah, and that's important because of course the prosecution is alleging that YSL is a
gang.
The defense is alleging that YSL is a record label, which is true, full of rap artists
and that it is not a gang and that it is just a group of guys that are trying to make it
big in the rap world.
Of course it could be both.
Yeah, it could be both.
And it probably started off as a gang first and then turned into a rap label as most of

(13:48):
these rappers.
You know, there's rappers where they don't do anything, right?
They've never done anything criminal and they're honestly kind of weak.
But when they talk about in their songs, it'd make you think that they really live that
life and it's because they have seen that.
They grew up around that, right?
And then there's people who have really lived that stuff.
There's people like Gucci Mane and Yohgadi and Young Dolph who was killed last year.

(14:12):
These people actually live that life.
They actually were huge in the cocaine trade specifically related to those three and rap
about what their life used to be.
And so a big cornerstone of this case is if prosecution can use music videos and song
lyrics as a basis to charge someone and use that as evidence against them because it and

(14:34):
what the defense says is that this should be kept as artistic freedom.
And what was the other rapper that we talked about on a different episode?
YMWMLE.
Yeah, YMWMLE.
It's sort of some of that same stuff.
Very similar to that.
And that's something that, you know, if you're in this industry of creating music or creating

(14:56):
raps that are going to at least derive somewhat from your actual life experience, you know,
you got to be careful if that life experience includes anything criminal.
I mean, it's no different than the country people talking about slamming down a bunch
of alcohol at a bar and then drive in or whatever it may be.
And that'd be like, well, why don't you hit him with DUI?
I mean, a little less serious than some of the things that they're talking about.

(15:18):
Right.
But I mean, same concept.
Yeah.
Well, I think if they were later prosecuted for a DUI, maybe they would, you know, if
they're talking about their driving all the time.
To show history, maybe.
Yeah.
And the intent.
And a lot of these crimes involve intent and knowledge.
And did they know this activity was going on?

(15:39):
Well, if you're singing, if you're rapping about something and you're singing and there
are specific facts or specific lyrics that match up, you know, in whole or in part with
an activity that actually happened.
Man, as a defense attorney, I'd be telling you, don't do that.
Yeah.
There's 182 overt acts.
And one of those overt acts specifically is a song by Young Thug.

(16:01):
And a lyric of it is, it goes, I never killed nobody, but I had something to do with that
body.
Yeah.
So, create lyrics like that at your own peril if you're associating with people that have
killed people, because that's, if you later get charged, they're going to say you were

(16:22):
confessing in your own artistry.
Now, obviously.
That's the thing too, is just the, it's so hard to tell.
I mean, obviously some things might seem obvious and stuff, right?
But a lot of people think, well, I didn't do it.
So I can't be charged with it.
So I should be okay to talk about it.
And the criminal justice system and our laws are just so wide and encompassing.
I mean, it's hard for the daily person to realize how many laws they may be breaking

(16:45):
in a day.
Yeah.
If you get charged with murdering somebody, for example, and you've created a song about
murdering somebody, prosecutors are going to put that in every day, all day.
Yeah.
Even if you didn't do it.
Right.
Because that's evidence.
And you can argue what the defense attorney is going to say, objection, your honor.
This is a song.

(17:09):
It's just taking justice with creating lyrics and, and, you know, creating entertainment
and music.
It's not anything.
It's not a confession.
It's not true life.
You know, the judge is going to say in response to that, okay, counsel, that goes to the weight
of the evidence, not the admissibility.
You can argue that all day to the jury.
They should ignore it because it's a song.
That's fine.
Great argument for you.
But the jury will decide whether or not that's, that's what that was.

(17:31):
And so it's going to come in.
So, you know, anybody that's out there, you know, it's a song.
It's a budding artist or a rap artist or any type of artists that matter.
If you are associating with people that are anyway engaging in risky behaviors, you know,
you create a song about I didn't kill somebody, but I had others do it.

(17:51):
And even then, let's say you really had nothing to do with anything, but you're maybe making
rap songs, but you live in the ghetto and you're rapping about the things you see.
And I mean, you live in the ghetto.
It's hard to have friends who haven't committed crimes or something.
I mean, it's just it's just a way of life at that point.
It's as normal as your average white girl going and getting Starbucks.

(18:11):
It would be it would be so easy to get you caught up in something that you probably genuinely
didn't do right now.
And and we'll jump into sort of the facts of this young thug thing and what they've
charged him with.
It's it's the indictment is.
56 counts.
182 overt acts related to the RICO.

(18:32):
Six pages.
Yeah, we have it in front of us.
The the first count is the the RICO or racketeering charge.
That's the only one the young thug is actually charged.
Right.
There are then 55 other counts that involve what the prosecutor's theory is his underlings,
his underlings and all the crimes they did dating back to over 10 years.

(18:56):
2013 dates back to 2013.
So these are allegations that have probably already been convicted on or many of them
have been convicted on that involve I think which is really bad for him.
Right.
If these allegations are convicted, then that goes to show that that actually happened.
Yeah.
So once you've got allegations that are already proven, it's it's you know, you can't say

(19:16):
they didn't happen.
You just have to prove that you didn't have connection with it.
I guess roughly 30 different people involved, all of them, every single one of them.
And this is part of their theory on the case as a street name tied to them to their actual
legal name and then a street name.
And I think what's young thugs actual name?

(19:37):
Jeffrey Jeffrey is listed by his actual name and then
his street name.
All these you know, you've got this this Martinez Arnold, aka Duke, Damon Baylock, Valley, Javaris
Badford, aka Tuta.
It goes on and on and on and on.
So where I always say when you think of a Rico charge, the old adage birds of the feather

(20:01):
flock together.
That's the way for the government to charge the birds of the feather that are flocking
together.
You may not be the person that actually did the act.
You may not be the guy.
And the charges are all over the place that they say this criminal organization got involved
with.
Possession of drugs, selling drugs, narcotics, murder.

(20:22):
Possession of a firearm by a serious violent felon, hijacking, car robberies.
There's just it just the doors getting kicked in, house robberies, dealing, dealing drugs,
dealing marijuana, dealing hydrocodone, narcotics in general.
Yeah.
I mean, the list goes like I said, there's 50, 55 other counts that are all examples

(20:43):
of what they are saying is this large organization.
So they have a little background.
And this is something that I said to Brad right before the podcast started, which which
you know, I don't think we have any very many listeners around my age.
But when I was in high school, you know, I had a group of like 10 friends and we had
our own secret handshake.

(21:04):
And that if we were involved in criminal activity, that would have been considered a gang.
Well, it's a so we didn't have a name.
There are different things they look for in criminal activity, criminal gang activity.
In Indiana, there's a statute that actually defines examples of it.
So one of the things is, you know, a unique handshake, unique code words, colors, colors

(21:25):
in common, clothing in common, tattoos, acknowledging the gang or tattoos reflective amongst all
the members.
Those are all things that are evidence that are allowed to establish that this was a gang.
And the racketeering charges actually got started or their foundation is in the mafia

(21:47):
days.
The mafia was in its prime.
John Gotti was it the one that they really tried to hit with it?
The first one?
Yeah, because they think about if you're at the head of the head of a criminal organization,
your hands aren't dirty.
You're keeping your hands clean.
All is and all is.
Somebody gets in trouble.
I didn't know anything about that.
Well, the law, you know, the people that create laws, Congress and the state legislatures

(22:11):
like, well, wait a minute, we keep hitting all the guys that are doing the dirty work
with the guy that's profiting the most at the top and getting the biggest benefit out
of this is just letting everybody take hits for him.
That doesn't make sense.
And you know, rightfully so.
They figured out we got to figure out a way to do that.
So they created these things called Rico Rico laws, racketeering, criminal gang activity.

(22:33):
These are all charges that I know racketeering something corrupt influence, corrupt organization,
oh, racketeering influence, corrupt organization, corrupt, corrupt organization.
And so they created all these different charges to come up with ways to go after the heads
of the snake.
And in this case, they they filed a conspiracy to violate the racketeer influenced and corrupt

(22:58):
organizations act and that's a Georgia law under 1614 four dash C. And so that's the
only one that young thug is charged under because they're saying he was the head of
the snake or one of the heads of the snake.
And he's keeping his hands clean by having all these people underneath him do all these
crazy different criminal activities.
All right.
So he's been housed at the Fulton County Jail since May 2022.

(23:21):
And he faces up to two decades behind bars, which honestly sounds pretty lax for what
they're alleging.
And there's eight charges including violation of the Georgia Controlled Substances Act,
possession of a firearm while committing a felony, conspiring to violate George's Rico
Act and he's pleaded guilty or not guilty to each offense.
The trial has begun on November 27th and there's been a lot of hiccups with that as well.

(23:41):
Has been a complete media.
I mean, everything has been all over the news and thankfully they've allowed cameras in,
which has brought its own problems that we're going to talk about.
And the charges are alleged to have happened between 2013 and 2022.
So literally a decade in the making, like they go far as far back, I think it was like
May of 2013.
And those are the, but those are the, those are the instances they are alleging occurred

(24:07):
under count one.
Right.
So those are not, those are not separate criminal charges.
Those are the essentially the allegations that they're making under count one to show
that this criminal organization exists.
And those, those are, are very detailed.
There's within that count one, I'm trying to take a quick look here.

(24:29):
It's a lot.
It's a book, literally.
I mean, it is, like I said, the 58 different, 56 different counts of the, what is it?
60, 86 pages of this indictment.
That young thug is a part of 63 of them are detailing the allegations that have crime

(24:53):
that make up the Rico count.
So the first count occupies 63 pages and it lists 182 separate acts of criminal conduct
that they are saying was part of this criminal organization.
Now keep in mind too, the trial is going to be 10 years.
Yeah.

(25:13):
And the trial is going to be a year.
Jury selection was 10 months.
How much would you charge for this?
Knowing that you can't take cases for a year and it's going to probably eat into the next
year too, because you can't take cases.
Yeah.
These, these are monsters.
So if you're going to, if you're going to be, this is at least a million, like what?
1.3, 1.5 million.
Yeah.
I mean, 10 months for jury selection and another year to try the case.

(25:35):
Yeah.
In legal fees, you'd have to charge somewhere north of a million dollars.
Yeah.
Cause you're setting your practice down.
Yeah.
This is all you're doing.
You're not, not only are you not generating other revenue by setting, shutting your, essentially
shutting your personal practice down, you're turning away all that revenue, but you're
also, you know, indirectly hurting all of your marketing.

(25:56):
Yeah.
Cause eventually, you know, you turn business away for a year.
People starts getting out.
You can't, you can't call, you know, you can't go, Brad, he's tied up in this.
He doesn't have time to do anything else.
Now if you win, he's going to explode.
Yeah.
And you know, firms, when you get hired on a high profile case like this, it's going
to last that long.
You have other people that work for you.

(26:17):
So they're going to take on that, that workload and, and capture a lot of that business.
Yeah.
Just this specific attorney.
Like his whole firm isn't going to shut down.
He's probably the, he's probably the head of the, he's probably the head of the law firm.
He's got other people working for him, but it's, that's an exhausting, very tough thing
to do to be in trial.
And when I first heard this, this trial was as long as it was going to be, I was like,

(26:41):
what in the world?
I thought only California did stuff like that.
When you're talking about 56 charges, like what, 30 defendants, whatever it is, somewhere
in that neighborhood, 184 allegations.
And just in the first charge, I mean, you are talking about so many witnesses.
I can't even imagine the number of witnesses you're going to have to call.
And then as a juror, you got to try to remember.

(27:04):
Yeah.
Are they allowed to take notes?
They can take notes.
They can ask to rehear evidence.
Like if there's, if there's tapes.
Yeah.
I mean, the most recent trial I did, the first thing the jury did is said, we want to rehear
the interviews.
And so we had to go and everybody had to sit in the courtroom and listen to all the interviews
all over again.
So they can do that.
They can reanalyze the evidence.
They can ask to hear interviews again.

(27:25):
If there's video, I'm sure there's videos of some of this criminal activity.
There's probably phone calls, all that stuff.
There is, there's phone calls, there's texts.
And so, so they can ask to hear it in.
And a lot of courts, if you want to ask to hear or see something, not all courts are
this way.
Sometimes, sometimes they send it back with the jury, but a lot of courts, if you want
to ask to hear or see something, everybody, the attorneys, the defendant, prosecutors,

(27:48):
everyone judge, everybody has to come back in the courtroom and all sit there and watch
them watch it.
Yeah.
So to give you a little history of this and a little background before we continue to
dive into it.
YSL, if it's considered to be a gang, it's considered to be a subset of the Bloods Gang
Sex Money Murder, which was massive in New York City.

(28:10):
And they actually have him on phone, which is transcripted, talking with the leader of
Sex Money Murderer in New York.
And that transcripts, transcript states that, you know, them talk about soldiers are going
to die, men are going to fall, but it's all for the betterment of our empire.
Wow.
Soldiers are going to die.
Say that again.
Soldiers are going to die.
Men are going to fall, but it's all for the betterment of our empire.

(28:32):
Okay.
That's a bad, that's a bad piece of evidence.
Yeah.
Soldiers are going to die.
That's talking about your own people.
Yes.
And then empires are going to fall.
I'm assuming that's talking about other people.
Well, to create, he's saying that men have to die so their empire can grow.
To create the bigger empire.
Yes.
Yeah.

(28:53):
That's classic Rico.
Like, what you're right.
That's like, what are you doing, dude?
You know, it's amazing to me, these, these younger up and coming artists, once you start
making enough money, man, you should have like an attorney on staff.
I'm sure he did.
Every single thing that you're doing, you should be like, all right, how could this
bite me in the ass?

(29:13):
Now, obviously you don't want, you know, you can't, you can't have all your stuff being
so watered down that it's not going to connect with your audience, but gosh, you got to remember,
you got to be, you got to be careful.
I remember.
You can't connect with your audience if you're not making music.
Yeah.
There was a, back when I was a prosecutor, there was a local, a local major athlete in

(29:36):
the paid for one of the professional sports teams that used to be a victim of crime over
and over and over and over and over and over and over again because of who he was surrounded
them with.
They stole from him all the time.
And then he wouldn't want to actually cooperate and prosecute against them.
This is kind of like the same, but in reverse.
So if you're the head, if you're the guy that's making all the money, you know, you got all
your boys from back in the day that maybe you haven't moved on in life or going to,

(29:59):
you know, ride your coattails.
If you're the one that they're, you're supporting them, you're, you're, you're kind of providing
for them.
They're doing anything you asked them to do.
You know, you got to be careful because if they take, they can take something you say
that you didn't mean it to mean this, and then they go and do something criminal.
Those communications be twisted around the wrong way.

(30:22):
That's you, you directing them.
And here's the thing too, as well is like a lot of people may think, well, just leave
all those people behind.
If you're making all this money, you know, why surround yourself with that?
And here's the thing.
These men have gone through the worst of life together.
They have had friends killed in front of them, you know, family members arrested and they
that they'll never see again.
They've gone through the worst of the drug epidemics.

(30:44):
You know, they've seen it all together.
So when they're making these music, this music and a lot, a lot of times what they'll do
is they'll pull money together.
So that they can get, you know, studio time and it'll all be under the auspice of if one
of us makes it, all of us makes it.
Right.
We're gonna take care of each other.
Exactly.
There's some nobility in that.
There's some honor in that.
But you know, at some point when you become the man, you got to make sure the men you're

(31:08):
taking along with you are are representing your brand, representing your business in
a positive way.
All right.
So Young Thug created his own record label called YSL Records, which means Young Stoner
Life or Young Slime Life.
Even through that has recruited various rappers to his listings, including his best friend
Gunna, which I had referenced.
And Fannie Willis, the same prosecutor from Fulton County, Georgia, claims that this is

(31:29):
actually a criminal enterprise and slash gang that ran rampant in the streets of Fulton County
in greater Georgia and helped use the proceeds from rapping to bolster his image in the criminal
underworld.
He's accused of trafficking or helping facilitate the trafficking trafficking of narcotics and
guns as well as calling hits out on rival gang members and having multiple people in
his gang possessing weapons, despite them all being felons.
Young Thug has claimed to have been the leader of the gang.
The Top Shot caller and is even reported to be called in a hit on fellow rapper and Atlanta

(31:52):
native Wyifin Lucci while he was currently incarcerated in jail.
And Wyifin Lucci was reportedly stabbed, however, he survived the attempt on his life.
Now, this is interesting because Wyifin Lucci is considered a rapper, but he usually does
like R&B.
He does very sing song music.
I didn't even know he was a gang member.
Like, I was so surprised.
And I didn't find out that he was stabbed.
And there is evidence that Young Thug probably called this hit out on him.

(32:14):
And he had even in one of the overt acts in 2019.
Was he was making a big or what was the I mean, what was the beef about?
Lucci is a rival gang.
Okay.
And so in 2019, Young Thug made an Instagram post that tagged Wyifin Lucci and said, you're
lucky.
I like everything you do for your kids and your mother because otherwise that would have
done killed you.
Yeah, that's not good.
So basically saying like, because you take care of your mama, I'm not killing you.

(32:37):
Yeah, it's, you know, one of the we were talking a little bit about this off off air before
we taped one of the things that, you know, in my profession, it's been surprising is
how many of these how many of my young clients when they're involved in a violent act, shooting,

(32:57):
stabbing, whatever it is, I can ask them what the what why what was the why.
And then many times they don't know.
We've just hated each other.
And they don't know why they can't remember why.
And it's a lot of times just who they were affiliated with.
It's not having to do with it wasn't something where somebody crossed somebody.
Somebody was with somebody else's girl, meaning the classic.

(33:18):
That's one of my favorite things to watch is gang members who have come to the age,
you know, they're in their 30s, the late 30s, early 40s, and they meet another gang member
and they'll get on podcasts and they'll talk about like, man, the only reason why I hated
you is because you were born on 52nd Street and not 55th Street.
And if you take like you are the exact same as me, you take two or three steps back and
think about that.

(33:39):
You were born three blocks down the street.
And because of that, I wanted to murder you.
How stupid that is.
Just take a few moments, just a few steps back.
So and then this is what happened.
You know, I mean, you say it's stupid, right?
But these are people, their whole community has always been grown up there.
This started off in the crack epidemic.
Someone dies and then they kill another one.
Then another one dies and another one dies and back and forth, back and forth, back and

(33:59):
forth.
Then you're born into it.
Then one of your friends dies.
Now you want to go kill one of them.
And the cycle perpetuates itself forever.
Well, there's a sense of belonging and safety.
Right.
It's tribalism too.
They won't.
They won't talk about that part of it.
But the gang affiliation gives them a sense of belonging and safety that they aren't feeling
the other way.
Right.
Because even if you're not in a gang, if this gang from 52nd Street finds out you're from

(34:21):
55th Street, even if you're not affiliated with a gang, they might fuck you up.
Right.
And so why not have the protection?
Right.
Yeah.
No, it's it's bad.
If you look at this whole thing with Young Thug, though, the hundred eighty four different
criminal allegations, they said, spanned over 10 years.
That's 18 on average, 18 crimes a year.

(34:42):
They're saying that this criminal organization, they know they believe they can prove was
a part of.
And so, you know, you just work your way up the chain and say, all right, well, who's
if there's somebody in this group that could that has control, that's directing this organization
that could say, do this, don't do that.
Who is it?
And, you know, they're saying it was it was Young Thug.

(35:04):
So let's start getting into the trial and the absurdities, because this has been a complete
circus show.
Jury selection began in January of twenty twenty three.
And at that time, 14 of the 28 people charged the indictment were set to be tried together.
That number has dwindled to six after some defendants either took plea deals or were
separated to be tried later.
A jury of 12 people, nine women and three men and six alternates was finally selected
on November 1st after several delays.

(35:26):
The trial is expected to at least last at least a year.
It took 10 months for Judge Granville, which is the judge's name, and the attorneys to
select the jurors because the unusual scope of the case and the expected length of the
trial.
The selection process was rife with its own viral moments, including a courtroom drug
deal caught on camera.
Now I don't know if this was I don't remember if this is jury selection or what it was,

(35:46):
but basically one of the defendants walked up.
And if I remember, it was either Xanax or oxycodone, but basically dropped a bag of
pills into Young Thug's hand or like on the table or something like that.
Don't know the reason in behind it, but literally everybody saw it and Young Thug turned around
and immediately gave it straight to the prosecutor.
It was a big fiasco and they called it in question a lot.

(36:09):
If he asked for that to happen, if he knew it was going to happen, he vehemently denied
that he knew that was going to happen and talk about how stupid it would be to have
that happen.
Just when I think I've heard and seen everything that's that's that's what I have.
And then there was also a prospective juror ordered to write a 30 page essay about the
importance of jury service after she skipped a selection day.
But she skipped because she had a trip to Mexico plan for the last year and a half and

(36:33):
said she hadn't taken a vacation since and just wanted to take a damn vacation.
Yeah, that's interesting because in large jurisdictions, attendance for jury duty is
is terrible.
I think here in Indianapolis, it's somewhere around 50 percent just don't show up.
And so honestly, most of the time, nothing happens to them.

(36:54):
But judges do get frustrated.
He did threaten to after the couple after meeting her a couple of times, he threatened
to put her in six months of jail for every page that she had to write.
So I understand that judges get frustrated with it because obviously the criminal justice
system cannot work if people don't show up for jury duty.
So for somebody to sort of flippantly not appear for it is is certainly disrespectful

(37:19):
to the system.
And you want you want to set an example for the others that are here and listening to
it.
This is not accepted behavior.
This lady supposedly had a vacation that had been planned and prepaid for.
It's so odd.
To me, normally, if you make that a court aware of those kind of things, they will excuse
you.
But sometimes some judges are just sort of hardcore about those kind of things.
Right.

(37:39):
And a page, I don't want to say 30 page.
Yeah.
Paper on the importance of jury duty.
That'd be tough, a tough paper to write.
That's a space it.
Triple quadruple space.
Teen fought.
Yeah.
You know, four inch margins.
But yeah, that's double certain.
I get why judges frustrated.

(38:00):
But it seemed like a little bit of an overreaction in this this one instance in terms of how
she was like, screw it.
I'm staying home.
Like she had this one of the judges, one of the one of the judges I was in in front of
as a prosecutor on a daily basis when we did jury selection, you get that a current you
get that current or that occasional jury that clearly just didn't want to be on jury.

(38:22):
They didn't want to do it.
They didn't want they didn't want to spend their time doing it.
And you imagine on this one, you're getting a lot of that because you're talking about
people have to take away a year from their life.
Who can do that?
Right.
Very difficult.
You know, so you get all these excuses.
People make up stuff.
And sometimes I can't be fair.
I can't stand judge.
I can't do this.

(38:42):
And one of the judges I used to be in front of, she was it was a female judge.
She would pull her glasses down over her nose, look down at him and be like, sir or ma'am,
let me ask you a question.
If you've been charged with a crime, let's assume you have been.
Would you want somebody like you to be on the jury?

(39:05):
Or would you want somebody to be fair?
And so she would turn around on them and make them sort of try to be introspective and say,
all right, if I sit in this guy's seat, maybe I should maybe I should care about this and
not be so flippant about it.
So yeah, it's easy to see where judges get frustrated.
This seemed like a little bit of a over overreaction.
The judge also gave an insight into the financial troubles of the county when he ridiculed a
potential juror when they asked for lunch every other week or so with the exchange going

(39:29):
as such, quote, feels like a long shot, but can we get like lunch maybe every two weeks
or so?
And the judge acted very annoyed and said, you got a lot of nerve, man.
You trying to ask me for lunch?
And then he explained that Fulton County has a bad credit.
He no longer has money to provide amenities for jurors.
Quote, it's one of those things I wish I could provide you at this point in time, but I'm

(39:49):
not in a position to do so.
I can tell you that once you become a deliberating jury, I can make some arrangements for some
substance.
So obviously this was in jury selection or he's probably already selected but wasn't
deliberating yet.
Yeah, they don't normally buy lunch, but this was 10 months long, but it's spread out over
so long.
This and he asked for every other week.
That's five lunches.
It would just be a it would be a mess because jurors get paid like twenty dollars a day

(40:14):
in a typical state.
Imagine having to leave your job for a year.
Yeah, no, you're you're not paying.
You don't have to be paid during that time period.
Many companies would.
They can't fire you for it.
They can't can't terminate you.
But if you're an hourly worker, you're not going to get paid most places.
I mean, so that's why these jury selections on these cases are incredibly difficult.

(40:39):
Because no, I'm not I don't give up.
I don't give a damn about sorry, but OK, I'm a I got to still live.
Yes, I have to live.
I'm going to be homeless after this.
So you get a lot of retirees.
People that maybe some people that are on disability but can still get to a courthouse
and sit on a juror, you know, because otherwise, you know, imagine a parent being a parent.

(41:02):
I mean, you can't take your kids to events or to school or, you know, it would be an
incredibly try explaining to like an eight year old why they can't do all the things
they want to do because they're on jury.
No practice for the next year.
Yeah, yeah, they're not going to take that at all.
So yeah, very, very difficult.
Your selection is these type of cases where it's going to go that long.
A week long trial, which is like in, you know, that's one of the things I hate about court

(41:28):
cases to be on TV because a lot of it draws it out, makes it look like the criminal justice
system so slow.
A week long trial is a long trial.
Yeah.
And trials don't go more than a week.
Very, very often you start asking for more than a week of somebody.
Most jurors are going to have an issue with that.
Yeah.
And you know, most, most people, even the people that want to do their civil duty, you're

(41:51):
like, oh man, you're going to need to do something for a month.
That's hard.
Yeah.
People's lives can't be just interrupted like that.
So that's, that's, that's difficult.
Especially with no warning.
Yeah.
You know, they receive a letter in the mail.
Well, maybe a couple of weeks.
Yeah.
You got to be here in a couple of weeks.
And usually you have no idea what you're sitting on.
So you have no idea.
You might be there on a one day misdemeanor trial or you get, you see this, you're like,

(42:14):
oh shit.
Yeah.
This is the, this is the worst case scenario as a juror.
You've got this 60 page thing with 56 allegations.
Are they handed the indictment?
What's that?
Are they handed the indictment?
Normally this, I can't even imagine before jury selection, most judges will read the,
the charging information or indictment to the jury.

(42:35):
That would take a day in this class, in this case, just to read that document.
So I mean, you have to do it though.
You have to let them know what they're there about.
So I, I just can't fathom it would be, you'd have, if you're a defense attorney, you'd
have to be paid a fortune to do this.
If you're a juror, you'd have to be somebody that's either unemployed or retired or on

(42:58):
disability, on disability, independently wealthy and have a company that can run without you
being there day to day.
Yeah.
I mean, it would be difficult.
Fine.
Very.
So on November 29th, the third day of the trial, Glanville called the attorneys into
his chambers after screenshots from the trial live stream surfaced online, showing the faces
of four jurors.
Many media outlets then started doxxing said jurors and putting out their information.

(43:18):
Now doxxing means that you basically Facebook stalk someone and put all their information
out there, their family, their name, their work, their address.
So that's bad.
And by media, you mean to lose a sense of term because in today's social media world,
no, I mean, not media.
I mean, NBC news is not publishing a jury's face and giving the back.

(43:40):
Okay.
But then no jumper was one of them and they have like an 8 million audience.
Right.
But it's not mainstream media.
It's not the traditional mainstream.
Well, yeah, I guess it's not mainstream.
It wouldn't be mainstream for like what your generation would call it.
But my generation gets a lot of their news from places like that.
I'd say in older, older, older days, pre social media, where there's a voice given to so many

(44:06):
different people, something like this would have never happened.
You know, the major news organizations will never publish stuff about a juror.
If it got out, it would have been in something like the inquirer or what would be today,
TMZ.
Right.
And they probably would have only published certain things about them.
Like this person is, you know, a chef that works in this, you know, they probably would

(44:29):
still wouldn't have given the name.
But now on social media, yeah, they just do it.
It just explodes and it's going to be out there.
Totally.
One of the many, many examples of how social media has impacted our culture, one of which
is the, you know, trying to keep anonymity is impossible.
Very difficult, very difficult.
So the next day, prosecutors said they'd realized the photos of the jurors were more widespread

(44:50):
than they first thought and asked them to intervene.
But the judge said he wasn't going to quote, going to weird them out by telling them that
a few had been caught on camera.
And because of that, a few days later, another juror told the judge he was concerned the
jury could be seen on courtroom camera stream after he saw a months old video from pre
trial proceedings online.
She said she could still be fair and Glanville made sure other jurors who heard her disclosing
the video still believe they could be fair too.

(45:12):
But jurors aren't also also aren't supposed to be researching, reading or watching anything
about the case.
So Glanville responded to the woman finding the video by implementing his blanket ban
on all social media used by jurors.
He's not doing this so they don't find out stuff about the case.
He's doing this so they don't find out that their idea is exposed.
Yeah, it's everything we're talking about right here is why there are a lot of judges

(45:33):
that are adamantly against cameras in the courtroom.
They just are this and this is a good basis why you know, it's a real struggle between
courtrooms being public and, and the public knowing about their there's a lot of positives
to it, right?
They get to see what their elected officials are doing.
They get to see the judge, they get to see the prosecutor, they get to see the criminal
justice system in action, but there are negatives to it too.

(45:55):
And this is one of them.
Now most of the cameras that are in courtrooms are mounted fixed and pointed in specific
directions so there's zero chance that a juror can be caught because jurors go in the box
and then they go out of the courtroom.
They have their own door.
They don't go in and out the door everybody else does.
And so you can set it up where they should almost never there should be no chance of

(46:15):
them being on camera.
But when something like this happens, you know, it shows the downfall of having cameras
in the courtroom and you know, it's a double-edged sword.
So the judge himself actually the people that have been watching the trial has one of the
most sought after sightings and that's Jack, his service dog in some black lab.
He has it because he has PTSD.

(46:36):
He's an ex-veteran and this has actually been part of the trial too because Doug's lawyer
Brian Steele was cross-examining a police officer about a stolen gun he found during
a 2013 traffic stop in which Doug was arrested.
And the judge says, please point the muzzle always down no matter if it's unloaded.
Okay, you make everyone nervous, including Mr. Kearns who you pointed at.
Glanville said referring to a staff attorney Wesley Kearns, a major contention of the charging

(47:00):
documents in the trial is that a lot of young Doug's own lyrics from his music are being
used against him.
Something that's what like I said, brought the rest of the country into a wider debate
on if rappers and songwriters alike should be exempt from their work, criminalizing them,
stating that it stifles creative differences and that many of these rappers didn't do these
crimes but either witnessed them or heard them as they were growing up in the ghetto.
Here's a sound bite of one of his songs jumped out the window young Doug and he's rapping

(47:22):
jumped out the window and I fled on the cops at the expletive had to run because I've had
meds in my socks.
Let's stop for a second.
I'd like you to do that in more of a rap format.
No and I'm not pausing that so everyone can hear how goofy you just sound up.
Hit the rocky road.
Then I led them to the projects whole hood outdoors in the street.
They trying to stop them.

(47:44):
The state of Georgia alleges young Doug's lyrics depict real life crimes.
Prosecutors say YSL the initials of young Doug's record label young stoner life also stood
for young slime life.
That's a street gang they claim he led and used to direct crimes from murder to drug
dealing.
Here's Fulton County prosecutor Adrian love and her opening statement quote he tells you
we committing them crimes pop out and shoot roll one up for the gang.

(48:07):
He's not using gang coelacula.
The evidence will show he's telling you they are a gang young Doug's attorney Brian Steele
says those lyrics are art not evidence quote.
This is the environment that he grew up in.
These are the people he knew.
These are the stories he knew.
These are the words that he rhymed.
This isn't a ballot or a book.
These are phrases in a song.
End quote.
Now there has been evidence presented that has been painted as damning such as text from

(48:27):
young Doug that show he made of in fact calling the hit on wife and Luchi and had him stabbed
as well as recorded conversations as I've said with other gang members and leaders.
Conversation between Doug and Kyle Ori the alleged leader of sex money murder gang is
taped on January 25th.
The conversation includes the following remarks which are listed together in the indictment
as a single overt act.
Sacrifices must be made.

(48:47):
Soldiers must fall in order for battle to be won.
In five H 0 2 0 street life KG to God three shot nasty new and M1 anyone anybody not under
one of these individuals in the state of Georgia must line up Pete sap.
There is no rolling from one to the other.
Everything is as if you are one sex money murder.
Nothing added and nothing taken away two guns.
Now sex money murder is big on using violence to get their way and when they're saying no

(49:12):
rolling from one to the other it means no flipping from gang to gang that we are all
under the same banner.
Yeah and that's what you know and we'll get in this a little bit here in just a minute.
They actually call what are considered gang experts in these trials where they will take

(49:33):
all this information we're talking about right here and translate it into normal people speak
and say you know based on experience training and having been in this world for X number
of years here's what these things mean.
Most of those are detectives who've worked undercover inside of gangs for many many years
and so they'll call an expert will translate all that stuff and make it make sense and
they'll be able to do that.

(49:53):
They'll be allowed to show that yes I've been in here I've had these communications I've
seen them repeatedly and this is what this means.
All right so like when somebody says they're they're selling snow just as a real rudimentary
example they'll be an expert will take the stance that every time we've seen the word
snow and then we've done a drug bust it's been cocaine.
Right right.
So on January 7th 2015 per the state's accounts Doug rents a 2014 infinity Q 50 sedan that

(50:19):
is used in the murder of Donovan Thompson Jr. the indictment calls Thomas a rival gang
member to thug another overt acts prosecutors later paint thug as the mastermind behind
this and several other killings of rival gang members.
The murder is allegedly committed by YSL members Javaris Bradford Justin Cobb Diamante Kendrick
the rapper Yak Gotti the miss the Miss McMullen and Shannon Stillwell three days later on

(50:40):
January 26th stuff Doug says the following in a video post online.
So inward lie to their mama lie to their kids lie to their brothers and sisters then get
right in the courtroom and tell the God's honest truth.
Don't get it.
I don't get it.
Y'all inwards need to get fucking killed bro from me and YSL.
The prosecution links this statement to Donovan Thompson's Thomas's murder as an overt act

(51:03):
on March 18th 2018 thug and gunner pulled over once again and this has been a recurring
instance in many years like they were constantly getting pulled over another car is allegedly
in their entourage is pulled over in the same stop.
The latter vehicles found to contain a fully automatic weapon with high capacity magazines
including an AK 47.
Since the weapons were not found in their car neither rappers charged this traffic stop
is listed in the indictment as an overt act committed by both artists on August 8th 2018

(51:27):
or 2019 young thug tags and 11 alleged rival gang member wife and Lucia in a photo attached
to the following statement.
Why if in if I like what you do for your mother and kids I would have been killed you the
indictment list the post as an overt act.
There are many many many more pieces of evidence that are way too many to list in this episode
would be multiple days long.
Young Thugs attorney has fiercely fought against any claim against his client has remained

(51:49):
steadfast in his defense making many public media appearances to claim his clients innocence.
There's even remarks made in court from Thugs attorney which stated that the terms and acronyms
truly meant.
So one of those is swag.
Someone who admires God YSL young means young soldiers of the Lord slat SLA TT equals show
love all the time.

(52:10):
Op op is something that like if you're an enemy gang they're an op it's someone that
you would want to kill basically it means overly positive pal slime means that's the
funniest one for me because op is someone that you kill on site and they turned it to
the complete opposition.
Yeah your office literally your opposition slime seeing Lord and me every day gang going
above normal guys and Glock guarding lives overcoming challenges knowingly.

(52:34):
So it's you know it's really a very loving caring religious group.
Right.
That's what we've got here.
Yeah I mean okay so I'll give Young's attorney an A plus for creativity.
I don't think anybody's buying.
No I wouldn't buy that I would I would I think it'd be hard to not actually laugh.

(52:56):
Yeah when when what was the one for gang going above normal guys.
I mean that may be the only one that is maybe it's not what he believes that none of them
gang is even an acronym.
The beginning none of them are acronyms.
That's okay.
And op is spelled like when gang reduces OP just op right.

(53:20):
He's an op and then he put OPP overly positive pal.
Yes that's their overly positive pal.
The guy that is just so positive.
Yeah the rival coke dealer who I would love to murder.
He's just a pal.
I hate that guy but yeah I guess I mean that that that that one's gonna hurt the credibility
a little bit I'm afraid.
The trial already expected the last of the 12 months adjourned for the holidays early

(53:43):
after one of the men prosecutors alleged conspired with young Doug was stabbed in jail Sunday
night up in the ante for the most bizarre twist in a case already brimming with them.
The judge told the jury on Monday only that a participant in the trial had a medical issue
come up and the trial wouldn't be in session that day.
He told them Tuesday morning.
Unfortunately that medical issue still exists and recessed them until January 2nd.
This is the second time in 18 months that Shannon Stillwell who was the person that

(54:07):
was had this medical issue was stabbed in jail related to this case and it is the same
criminal indictment that has kept dog dog locked up since May 20 22.
Yeah that guy I mean the judge did the right thing.
Everything he did to deal with that situation is spot on what you should do but they're
assuming that person is going to end up being OK and recover they're going to put that guy
in solitary confinement.
Yeah I'm honestly I think that the people that are trying to kill him and if it's not

(54:31):
a rival gang it's going to be thugged and his people are trying to kill him because
Shannon Stillwell is one of the trigger men who has the most bodies under thug and so
I think they're trying to kill him so that way he can't even testify.
Exactly.
The judge told all the jurors that they had to completely refrain from using any social
media while they're on recess and not just refrain from reading anything about the case
as is typical.
The case will resume in January.

(54:52):
My my my son is a is a oddball and he doesn't use any social media at all unless they got
a bunch of him on the jury.
That's not happening.
They're going to log into their accounts as I'm leaving in the car in these three or four
weeks in the car on the way home.
They are logged into this account.
So that's this long episode.

(55:14):
Thank you for sticking with us.
That's sort of the groundwork on this trial.
It's going to be going on for the next year.
So as our major developments, we'll we'll we'll do some more episodes bringing you up
to speed on what's going on with this trial and we'll keep an eye on it and follow it
along the way and bring you some more material when it's relevant to that end.
This Richard Allen case Delphi that we've been following.

(55:36):
We did a long episode about that and what's going on with the judge being taken up to
the Supreme Court in a somewhat unusual twist that the Supreme Court has set that for oral
arguments, which means the attorneys and the parties are going to be present in front of
the judges where they can they'll drill them.
That's what they do.
They give them about a minute or two to speak and then they immediately start peppering

(55:57):
on them questions that takes place.
I think January 15, January 17 somewhere in that neighborhood.
So we'll have a follow up episode on the Delphi coming up for you on that issue once it comes
up.
We hope you all have had a wonderful Christmas and that the new year brings in a right future
good 2024 for you.
Thank you all for joining us.

(56:17):
This has been another episode of Pocket Wall Talks.
See ya.