Apple Podcasts New and Noteworthy Secrets Revealed with Josh host of Obscure History

On this episode, Josh, host of Obscure History, walks us through the evolution of his show. Obscure history was listed on Apple's new and noteworthy which resulted in 10's of thousands of downloads. Did they stick around?

Did you know Josh created this show for only 40 dollars? You will learn how he does it and some advice for creating your show.

Apple Form :) - https://bit.ly/3C1ewOr

Recorded on Riverside. If you like the way this interview looks and sounds and want to use it for your show please use this link - https://bit.ly/2VsuvW3

Find Obscure History on all podcast apps - https://bit.ly/399I9kp
Follow Josh on twitter - https://twitter.com/allthepeoplepod

Find Podcast Creators at https://indiedropin.com/show/podcast-creators

Greg's info
FanDummies Podcast - https://pod.link/1475022348
FanDummies on YouTube - https://youtube.com/c/fandummies
Greg on Twitter - https://twitter.com/indiedropin
On Instagram - https://instagram.com/indiedropin

Hosting
Both Obscure History and Podcast Creators is hosted on Spreaker. Check out Spreaker here - https://spreaker.pxf.io/KeZkn7

Josh's Setup
Microphone FiFine T669 - https://amzn.to/3E0k8dA
Recording Software Garage Band - https://www.apple.com/mac/garageband/
Mastering Software Auphonic - https://bit.ly/3lcYiuK


Podcast Creator Studio
Rode Rodecaster pro - https://amzn.to/38Ve3Ri
Rode Podmic - https://amzn.to/2YHLftQ
Rode PSA1 Mic Stand - https://amzn.to/3hf5KnR
Sony A7C - https://amzn.to/2XfaHpY
Sony 24mm F1.4 Lens - https://amzn.to/3ngwQPl
Benro Aero 4 Tripod - https://amzn.to/3niiUV7
2x Elgato key light - https://amzn.to/3trC3VL
Elgato Game Cature 4k60 mk.2 - https://amzn.to/3tuFmLQ

Edited using Adobe Audition - https://adobe.ly/3hj2fwG
Original Music Composed By David Rosen - https://bit.ly/3E3dIdS

*Many of the links provided are affiliate links by which Indie Drop-In LLC will make a small commission at no cost to you. Thank you for supporting Independent Podcast Creators.
*As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello everybody, and welcome to PodcastCreators, a show where we get podcasting
advice from real podcasters. I'm yourhost, Greg, creator of Indie drop
In Network and co host of TheFan Dummies podcast. Today on the show
we have Josh from Obscure History.I really think you're gonna like this interview.
Josh goes into detail about what it'slike to be featured in the New

(00:23):
and Noteworthy section in Apple Podcasts,which I know everyone dreams about. He
also talks about storytelling and retaining yourlistener. He also switched three times hosting
providers, so he tells you whatthat experience was like. It's a lot
of fun if you like the waythis show looks and sounds. It's recorded
on Riverside FM, so I've gotan affiliate link for that I'll put in

(00:46):
the show notes below. I'll alsoput all the links for both Obscure History
and all of my shows down inthe description box, along with links to
all the equipment that both Obscure Historyand Indie drop In and fandoms use on
a day to day basis. Soif you want to pick up some gear,
it's easy links for that. Allright, let's get on with the

(01:06):
show. Hey, Josh, welcometo the show. Hey, thanks for
having me. Why don't we juststart by telling everybody about yourself and your
show. Okay, my name isJosh. I host a show called Obscure
History. Previously it was called Allthe People You Should Know, but I

(01:30):
decided to do a little bit ofrebranding and so now it's Obscure History.
It's pretty fun, man. Ireally enjoy making it and I've seen a
lot more success with it than Iever thought that I would, and hopefully
it was more to come. We'regoing to dive into that deep. But
first I want to start with maybethe most fun question, how do we
sound like? Josh? How doyou sound like me? Yeah? Give

(01:53):
us your equipment breakdown? Like whatdo you use? Where do you host
have? And if I remember right, you have a story for the hosting
that I definitely want to hear.Yeah. Absolutely. For some reason in
my brain I connected it like howdo you sound like me? Like you
wanted to do an impression? Iwas like, I don't know, just
have various your personality, try tosound like you know what you're doing.

(02:17):
Yeah. I think every podcaster hasthat. Yeah, I think you have
to to think that people want tohear your voice exactly. Okay, So
for sound it's really simple. Idon't know, like some people might not
believe it if they listen to myshow. But I have a I have
this little mic right here. Igot to see it. Yeah, I

(02:38):
got that on Amazon for like fortybucks or so I just record into garage
ban because I've got a MacBook,and then throw an eque and a compressor
on my voice and then I shipit off to Offonic for you know,
like mastering for leveling. That's it. That's all I do, totally,

(02:58):
like for bucks and the MacBook thatI had already. Right, so I'll
have you send me over the modelof that microphone and I'll put it in
the show notes. So if people, you know, sounds like a great
mic, start off with it soundsgood. I mean we're doing some noise
suppression. You're not in a controlledenvironment, if I can, you know,

(03:19):
just look around. Yeah nope,not a studio for sure. Yeah.
Yeah, so it looks pretty good. And what's a phonic What does
that do? Yeah? So it'slike an AI based mastering software. I
guess it's browser based. So youjust go to offic dot com. You
get two hours of free audio amonth where you can just upload your audio

(03:40):
and the AI masters it for youif you need more. It's really very
affordable. Like to add, Ithink you can add like six hours at
a time for ten bucks or something. So oh wow, I've done that
maybe like once or twice when I'vehad especially productive months. But yeah,
I mean really it's a pretty goodservice, especially for those of us that
either don't have the time or knowledgeto like get into the nitty gritty of

(04:02):
mastering, you know, on ourown. So I definitely I highly recommend
it for any dy podcast out there. Yeah, sounds interesting. What about
editing, Like, what do youdo for editing? I have been I've
mentioned it on Twitter a couple oftimes, but I actually don't really edit
my show at all per se.I'm just highly neurotic, so if I

(04:26):
don't like a take, I justredo it. So the only editing that
I do is like when I pushstop recording and then cut off the last
you know, a couple milliseconds andthen push record again to start the next
paragraph. But your shows are like, if I remember right, they're anywhere
between twenty and thirty minutes normally,aren't they, Yeah, somewhere in there,

(04:48):
I've I think the shortest is abouttwenty, the longest is about forty.
I try to keep it right atthirty if I can. Yeah,
So yeah, I mean basically,I just break it down into manageable chunks,
you know, Like, if I'vegot a section that I know that
I'm going to be able to read, no problem, then I'll just go
through three or four paragraphs in onetake. But sometimes, like because it's

(05:12):
a history show and I'm reading,you know, maybe quotes from people hundreds
of years ago that don't speak theway that I speak. Sure, those
I'll usually just know to push pause, give myself a minute, and then
try to get through those, youknow, on their own. So you
will take little segments and then doyou stitch them together or do you like

(05:35):
you know, edit out like thelong silences between the takes or anything like
that, or do you literally justread it, take a breath, hit
record again, and then go tothe next one. Okay, So,
so if I were going to record, like if I were recording something right
now, I would push record andthen I would do Like in nineteen ninety

(06:00):
nine, things were really strange andthen i'd push stop record, I'd trim
off They'll just the last second soyou don't hear my click. Yeah,
and then I would line up mymarker right at the end of that one
push record, I give myself afour bar count in, so I push
recording it. You know, it'slike click and then let's go. So
basically I just trim off the lastsecond so you don't hear my click,

(06:21):
and I just read through. See. I think this is really important because
the message really isn't that you don'tedit. The message is is that you
can you break your show down intomanageable sections that you can read without errors.
Yeah, and if and if youhave an error, you just start

(06:43):
over on that section. You don'tplow through a thirty or forty minute episode
and then go oh no, andthen start over right. And I did
this for a couple of reasons.So the last four years, I've been
pursuing my bachelor's degree. I've alsogot two kids, and I have a
full time job and yeah, aside gig. So my time is absolutely

(07:06):
my most premium asset that I have. And so I found it recording that
way where I'm basically bypassing traditional likecharging like going back and you know,
zooming in on little chunks to getmy ums out or whatever. Like I
don't have time for that. Andif you like, if people do,
that's totally fine, like whatever worksfor you know, the individual, but

(07:28):
for me, it's like I knowthat I have to get in and out
and as little time as possible becauseI have like the rest of my life
waiting for me as soon as I'mdone recording. Yeah, that makes total
sense. And if I remember correctly, you started on Anchor, right like
you so you you started this process. You know, you're hitting the pause
record, pause record, you know, you're getting through your episodes and then

(07:51):
you post it to Anchor what happensafter that? So you're right. Um,
I did start hosting on Anchor,and it was it was good,
you know, Like I I wentfrom like five listeners on my first episode
and then like eventually that got upto like twenty five and that was really
cool. And then I got featuredon Apple's New and Noteworthy and that,

(08:16):
like I think eventually I was upto like seventy five pretty regularly, and
that basically like over one month turnedinto like over one hundred thousand total downloads,
and I think i've I've plateaued rightabout now at two thousand listeners per
episode, which is like mind boggling. I know, that's not like a

(08:37):
huge deal compared to like some ofthe big shows or whatever, but like,
I was totally fine making it forfree, just like to whoever wanted
to listen, because I liked Ilike the writing part really is most of
it like hard. I'm a writer, not so much like an audio engineer
or like an performer per se.So I was happy just writing it for

(08:58):
fun. But then it was likeit turned into kind of a thing.
That's like now I feel accountable toit, you know, because there's so
many people that actually care, rightright, So let's rewind the film a
little bit here, because you sayyou have about two thousand quote unquote listeners,
I'm assuming that that's two thousand downloadsin roughly thirty days per episode.
Yeah, something something in that neighborhood. Yeah, And it's interesting I think

(09:24):
that the term downloads you could putin air quotes, maybe because I was
with Anchor and then I switched toRed Circle because they offered like the programmatic
ads, which was something I waslooking for sure, and so on those
services, I was at like thirtyfive hundred strong an episode after thirty days,

(09:46):
like really consistently. And then Iswitched to Spreaker because I got accepted
into the Prime program, which isamazing, highly recommended for any indie podcaster
out there. And then immediately,like as soon as I switched, my
downloads cut almost perfectly in half.And after like weeks and weeks of tech
support and trying to investigate, youknow, what had happened basically just comes

(10:09):
down to the downloads being certified,because Anchor and Red Circle, to my
knowledge, aren't certified, and Spreakeris so like, I use downloads leasely
because like saying that I had thirtyfive hundred downloads makes my ego feel nicer.
But you know, really it wasprobably two thousand plus fifteen hundred of
static I guess random downloads. Yeah, but you've since added Chartable onto Spreaker,

(10:35):
haven't you, And then and Chartablehas corroborated spreakers numbers. Is that
true or false? Yeah? Absolutely, so I have added Chartable and I've
gone into the Apple podcast Connect becausebeing featured on Apple's New Noteworthy is pretty
advantageous in the fact that like ormore of my listenership is on Apple.

(11:01):
So when I go to podcast Connect, I mean it's really a snapshot of
almost all of my listeners. Sure, and checking both of those sources,
it seems like the entire time Iwas on Anchor and Red Circle, I
was still getting about the same downloadsthat I am currently through Spreaker. It's
just for some reason, like Idon't understand the tech side of it.
But like so I went back andlooked in like one month on Anchor,

(11:26):
I had like fifty thousand downloads,but I went to that same month in
Apple podcast Connect and I had likehalf of that, which is, you
know, perfectly mirrors what I'm experiencingnow having switched to Spreaker, going from
you know, three thousand to thirtyfive hundred to two thousand. So somewhere
along the lines, I'm not sureexactly how, but on those other two

(11:48):
services, I picked up a lotof just kind of extra downloads that don't
seem like they were actually happening.And then now that I'm on Spreaker,
those numbers are verified and you know, seem like they're right in line with
podcast Connect and Spotify podcasters. Yeah, it's hard to really know who's more
accurate when you really boil it down, but I always prefer to go with

(12:11):
a smaller number because you know,it's it's just better to plan, plan
for the worst and hope for thebest. I guess is the right look
at it right, And it feelsmore honest too, Like if your podcast
is big enough that you're trying tosolicit like sponsorships and stuff on maybe sites
like podcorn, like it feels morehonest to have those smaller numbers be certified
and you know, just say like, hey, here's what I'm working with.

(12:35):
Maybe it's not as much as Iwant, or maybe it's not as
much as my thing says that itis, but like, at least this
is honest, and you know forsure that this is what you're going to
get if you invest in my show. Yeah, so let's kind of talk
about this new and noteworthy thing,because you and I have talked about this
a lot, just on Twitter andback and forth. But but I want
to hear the story. How didyou get on the new and noteworthy?

(13:01):
There is this magical form. Idon't know where to find it. I
don't know exactly where it comes from, except for that it lives somewhere deeply
hidden on Apple's website. I bookmarkedit because another podcaster sent it to me
on Discord and they said, hey, I did this. I filled it
out for Canada. It totally legit. It's like an air table forum or

(13:22):
whatever, and so I thought,like, what's the worst that could happen,
you know, I fill it outand then nothing happens. Like it
doesn't ask for your personal information orlike anything like that, just your email
and your show's information. So Ifigured, if I'm getting you know,
catfished or whatever, like it's abad one exactly thing from me. So

(13:43):
I feeled it out and then Iwent away on vacation. I went to
the middle of nowhere in the woods, so I had no service. And
when I came back, you know, we're driving, my phone started like
blowing up with like new social medianotification ends and I checked through. I
had the Anchor app on my phone. I looked at the app and I
had like had gone from like Idon't even remember the exact number, but

(14:09):
I went from like seven hundred totaldownloads or whatever to like five thousand,
and then a few miles down theroad. I opened it again and it
was up to like thirteen thousand,and it just kept going like that for
about a month of just like asteady incline, and then it plateaued,
and then it went down, andthen it plateaued again. So yeah,
I figured the listeners that I havenow are the ones that liked it enough

(14:31):
to stick through the like hype.So yeah, So at the peak,
you think you probably got about fiftythousand downloads from being featured or what do
you think your total like downloads werefrom that? Oh? Man, um
rough gas during the peak or sincethen? Maybe total like like total like

(14:54):
what how many? How many thousandsof downloads do you think you can attribute
to that program? Oh so Ihad less than a thousand before I got
featured. Total, Um, Ithink I was probably at like seven hundred
or so, and I just recentlypassed three hundred and fifty thousand total downloads

(15:18):
I mean again, total downloads whateverthat means. Yeah, that's the milestone
that I celebrated, so I'll countit that way. But yeah, I
think that's amazing. So what doyou think your highest performing episode? How
many downloads it received? What I'mtrying to do is I'm trying to figure
out like where the peak was versuswhere we are now and kind of what

(15:41):
percentage stuck around. Um, Ihad I forget which episode, like I
don't remember the title, but Ihad one episode hit fourteen thousand total,
and again it was probably really halfof that of actual downloads, so probably

(16:03):
seven thousand total at like the absolutepeak, and then that has sense tapered
off to about two thousand, anda lot of that I think actually is
this is I think probably good toget into, especially for indigent podcasters.
This is going to be kind ofbrutal. So like, I'm sorry that
if this like crushes anybody's hopes anddreams. But a lot of that was

(16:25):
like my own fault. Like whenmy show got featured, it wasn't ready
to be featured. It was likenot a great product. I mean,
it was maybe better than some smallpodcasts, but like compared to what I'm
doing now, it's like night andday difference. Also, I made the
mistake of, like, I hopethat this isn't controversial, but like I

(16:45):
made the mistake of thinking that thenew listeners that had just started trying my
show wanted to know what I thoughtabout stuff in the world that wasn't related
to the show, if that makessense. So like I talked about like
my political beliefs one week and losta ton of downloads the next episode,
and then I talked about my religiousbeliefs and then lost a ton of downloads.

(17:06):
And you know, frankly, peoplecare about like what celebrities have to
say about the rest of the world, but there's maybe five people that listen
to my podcast that actually care aboutwhat I think is going on with religion
and politics. So I've since restructuredmy show that it is like from the
top to the very end, itis like pure storytelling, focused on the

(17:27):
actual plot of the episode, andat the end I give just a few
little blurbs about the show, youknow, drop all of the links,
all of that stuff, if Ido a little bit of housekeeping at the
very end. But for the lastyou know, three or four months,
I've been focusing just from like beginningto end telling a cognitive story and then
you know, putting just a littlebit of information at the end, and

(17:49):
that's his I can't say that mypodcast is like, you know, grown
in terms of downloads, but likein terms of engagement and people caring about
it. Like, I get somany more positive messages now that I've structured
it that way, and that's alarge part due to you. That was
some advice that you gave me thatI took seriously. So definitely I owe

(18:11):
you some things there. Hey man, I've driven down that road. That's
what I hope we can do forsomeone else that's watching this. I mean,
there's two things that I learned thehard way that you then replicated the
hard way, And that's when youstart talking about yourself too much and it
interrupts the story. It doesn't matterif it's politics, religion, or if
it's like what kind of baseball youknow you prefer over another kind of baseball.

(18:36):
It pulls people out of the storyand they get irritated, quite frankly,
even if they agree with you.So it's not so much that it's
a personal attack against the podcast somuch as it's there there to hear a
story. Right. I think onceyou get through the story, you've earned
the license to kind of say whatyou want at the end. Yeah,
And that works for me, andI think it works for you, so

(18:59):
maybe it'll work for other people.Totally. Yeah, And I don't mean
to say like nobody was malicious whenI did. When I like, nope,
I haven't really received any like reallynegative or hateful reviews over anything.
It was just that they don't comeback. Yeah, they just don't come
back. Yes, they speak,they speak with their time, and you
notice that difference. It's like,oh, maybe I'm doing things that are

(19:22):
turning people off because at the endof the day, like whether your show
is four buddies around a table crackingjokes or you know, a single person
narrated history show, at the endof the day, the people are listening
because they want to hear a story. I mean, that's pretty much it.
They want to hear a story,they want to see patterns, they
want you know, structured sort ofsegments. And you know, the more

(19:44):
that you can provide that, themore incentive there is to return. Because
if it's just four guys talking arounda table and cracking jokes and they're all
like out of left field and there'sno narrative and it's just a bunch of
laughter. Like my brother, mybrother and Me is a good example.
Like they crack a lot of joke, then they have a lot of side
conversation, but like, there's atheme, and there's a direction, and
no matter how far off of thetheme they get, they always go back

(20:07):
to, like, here's a segmentthat we're going to talk about. Here's
a bunch of jokes, here's asegment. There's a bunch of jokes.
Like, no matter what your podcastis, it needs structure and storytelling,
for sure. That's exactly right.And my brother and my Brother and Me
is a prime example of how youcan take that show and build segments to
keep the audience retention high. Soyou can constantly say, hey, we're
going to play a game in thenext segment. You know, hey we're

(20:30):
going to talk to this person inthe next segment, and people go oh,
and they look forward to it foryour show, you know, your
story keeps them engaged, So yourquality of writing is the only tool that
you have to kind of keep themthere. Now, have you seen your
retention do anything? Like you haveyou noticed anything? Yeah, Actually,
that's a good thing to bring up. I had I had forgot that.

(20:52):
We talked about that before, butsince I started focusing mostly on storytelling and
putting all of the like side informationat the very end of the episode.
My retention went from like off thetop of my head, it was in
like the sixty percent of people thatyou know were making it through sixty percent
of the episode too, Like nowI'm over eighty percent. Like it seems
like most people now are tuning inuntil I get to the part where I,

(21:15):
you know, do some housekeeping andtelling people that go the links and
my show notes or whatever. Yeah, And the reason people hang up there
is there's there's two reasons. Onethey know you and they don't need to
hear your links anymore. Or twothey're on the other side of the spectrum
and they're like an elite fan andthey're sticking around. Right. So you

(21:37):
give people the choice, you know, whether or not they want to stay
or go, And and you don'thold the story hostage, which I think
is is really the only thing todo. I mean, you have to
either do it up front or atthe end. You can't do it in
the middle. Just cannot do it. Yeah, I think that that's,
um, that's great advice for allof us. I think you're totally right
on with that. One of thethings that I do just for my show

(22:00):
because a I think it fits thematically, and b because it's something else that
I'm really interested in. Is Iput like very obscure indie musicians at the
end of my show, right,And uh, it's you can kind of
tell who the like diehard listeners arebecause I'll get social media messages from them
like, Hey, who is thatperson that you played on this episode?

(22:22):
Sometimes like they'll sneak into the binessis like I know that you're one of
the ones that sticks around for thewhole thing. Yeah, it's kind of
a nice way to gauge it,you know. And the funny thing is
is you just don't need that many. You know, I've heard different,
you know, those hustle economy folks, those people say, you know,
you only really need a hundred truefans to turn it into a job,

(22:42):
right because a hundred will tell moreand the word of mouth will will follow
and and really, you know,your first hundred people is your goal.
One other thing I wanted to touchon I think is really important for indie
creators is you decided to change yourformat, not just not just your storytelling
and you know, keeping it tothe point, but you changed I don't

(23:06):
want to say your genre, yourgenres stay the same, but you you
changed your topic and your branding.I did do that. Yeah, it
may have been unwise, I guessif you look at it from certain angles,
but show yeah, I'm happy withit, you know, And I
will say, honestly, if anybodyelse is thinking about rebranding or restructuring there

(23:30):
the way that they do things,I haven't noticed a significant drop off.
If anything, I've actually noticed moreengagement from people since I've made the big
rebrand, if you want to callit that. Yeah. But before All
the People you Should Know was justabout people, and writing biographies is really
hard, especially if people that areas obscure as possible, because that was

(23:53):
has always been one of the goalsof my show has been to be obscure,
even when it was called All thePeople you Should Know, Yeah,
and about the people you don't knowexactly exactly yeah. So doing biographies of
people that are obscure is really difficultbecause sometimes you are like you run into

(24:15):
these dead ends where they disappear forfive years and there's no documentation of what
they did. And one particular episodethat I did that was so hard was
one of my early episodes about MadWagner, who was like one of the
first female tattoo artists in America,and she's an interesting person and being the
first female tattoo artist is really cool. But it was like there was no

(24:41):
actual solid information to follow. Therewas like a couple of blurbs and some
blogs, and then I had togo off of like information that I found
in the obituary, the birth certificate, the death certificate, like a couple
of different like address changes that Ifound through public's record searches or whatever,
like really really difficult research. AndI was getting kind of burnt out on

(25:02):
trying to find some trying to findpeople that had enough information that I could
do an episode on without breaking myback over it. And so changing the
name to Obscure History does a coupleof things. So it a opens it
up to any kind of obscure topic, which you know, gives me a
lot more freedom as a writer andtakes a lot of pressure off. And

(25:23):
it also I think opens up thedoor for future endeavors, Like I would
love to have some of my friendscome on and make other obscure shows,
right like obscure music or something,you know, discovering you know, super
obscure Indie musicians or obscure crime isone that I'm very interested in right now

(25:45):
because I don't want to make atrue crime show. Frankly, I barely
have time to make the one showthat I make. But I just recently,
and this is a pro tip toanybody that's making any kind of a
history show, whether it's true crimeor contemporary history or whatever, like,
there are services where you can payfor information and you should do it,
because I just got a subscription tonewspapers dot com and it has changed my

(26:10):
entire outlook for my podcast because Ihave access to stories that nobody has ever
talked about on a podcast that aresuper obscure, but like some of those
old newspapers went into some grizzly details. Man, So it's like it's all
right there, you just have togo find it. But unfortunately, you
know, it's like sometimes you canhave to pay for that information, but
if you do, you're gonna bethe only person talking about, you know,

(26:33):
this bank robbery from nineteen oh oneor whatever. I think that's a
great tip people should invest in theirshows, not just in like microphones and
editing software, but in how youget information, even if you have to
pay to interview let's say a familymember of the tattoo artist. Right,

(26:55):
there's nothing in it for them tobe on your show, so you have
to, you know, give themfifty bucks or something. Yeah, totally.
I'm a big proponent of that.I mean, I don't bring on
guests really, but I think thatinvesting in the content of your show is
maybe even more important than investing in, you know, a lot of high
end sound equipment. Because and thisis something that like, I have a

(27:15):
bachelor's degree in history, and wedid a whole class on archives basically,
and one of the things that youfind about archives is like it's exclusive information.
Right, if you're looking for likethis one niche topic, you can
find it probably in an archive,but you've got to go to the archive.
Information is not always free, nomatter what the Internet tries to tell

(27:37):
you, Like, not everything thatyou want to know is on the Internet.
So when you buy a service likenewspapers dot com, or if you
pay for ancestry dot COM's like documentthey've got like a package that's for like
documents and military records or whatever.Like, if you pay for that kind
of stuff, it's going to takeyour research from like a seven to a

(27:57):
ten, just because you're getting stuffa from the source and B you're getting
more of it because if you're readinga blog about something, you can go
to another blog, but it's goingto be most likely just quoting the other
blog or the Wikipedia, and unfortunatelyall of the information isn't going to be
on either of those sites, right, And you're not really adding anything on
the topic. You're just collecting informationinto something and telling a story. It's

(28:23):
valuable. The story is probably valuable, but it's not as valuable as adding
to the conversation, right. Andyou know something that's it's interesting too,
is like I don't really know anythingabout SEO, but I know, like
if I do a podcast tomorrow onJeffrey Dahmer, I'll probably get a lot
of people that are interested just becausethey want to listen to every podcast about
Jeffrey Dahmer. And that's trye.Like, I've listened to a couple of

(28:45):
myself and it's a pretty interesting story. But the episode that I just put
out this morning is is not optimizedfor SEO because I did an episode about
a man who literally you can't findon Google. There's no pictures of this
person barely exists in the annals ofhistory, but I found his story in
a newspaper, and I followed,you know, the trail of newspapers and

(29:07):
just kind of made an outline ofthis guy's life. And it turned out
to be one of my favorite storiesto cover because it was kind of this
quirky tale of a guy that wasparticipating in this fun, little mysterious like
advertisement campaign, you know, andthen I just followed his life. He
was like a traveling coffee pot salesmanand was a member of like various philanthropic

(29:30):
organizations, and was seemed to belike really well respected and highly regarded within
his little tiny part of the world. But like, literally nobody knows this
guy's name except for the people thatlisten to my episode today. That's awesome.
I mean, it sounds like thedefinition of obscure history. Absolutely,
I've never been more obscure than Iwas on this episode. But and I
think that that's like and part ofme was a little concerned, you know,

(29:51):
when I went to go put thatepisode together, because there is no
seo value in that, Like nobody'sgonna come search for this guy's name in
their own This one was really justlike a love letter to the people that
enjoy my show, because I waslike, I'm not bringing in anybody that's
not already here for this one.Yeah, but but new listeners are going
to find immediate value. They've neverheard of them. You know, the

(30:14):
show's doing exactly what it's supposed todo. You know, the storytelling is
on point. There's no ridiculous chitchat in the middle. Like, right,
I think you're on the right track. And I would bet money that
your show will just continue to growand grow and grow and grow as you
refine. You know, you're goingto refine your techniques. There's gonna be
something you're doing now that later onyou can't believe that you did. Yeah,

(30:37):
it's just who knows what it is? Oh, totally, And I'm
totally like a shame based person tosome degree, Like I keep my old
episodes the way that they are becausesometimes when I feel like I'm a hot
shot, I go back and listento those and I realized, like,
you're like, oh, I amsix I am ten months removed from being
a complete dumpster fire. So it'sthe timetable so short, isn't it?

(30:59):
Like think about how long it takesyou to learn something in any other vocation,
but like in podcasting, it's trialby fire. You are on fire
the whole time. Yeah. Absolutely, And I think you know, I've
been tempted to rerecord some of thoseold ones before just because they are really
bad. You know, don't don'tstart with episode one of my show,
for sure. But then I think, like every once in a while when

(31:22):
I'm feeling like, you know,like I'm hot stuff, I just go
back and listen to that and think, Man, a year ago I was
making garbage. The thing to remember, though, is a year ago you
thought that was the hot stuff exactly. Yeah, that's the key point.
Yeah, yeah, awesome, totally. Well, if is there something that

(31:45):
you're working on now, is thereanything like you haven't solved, Like if
we could ask the community to gointo the comments and give you some advice
after you've given them a bunch ofadvice, what would you ask I don't
know exactly. I mean, I'malways I'm always down for some harsh criticism,
you know. I like to havepretty direct, constructive criticism. So

(32:09):
if anybody in the comments like seesthis episode and wants to go listen to
my show and wants to come backhere and like limbast me for something,
like I'm here for it. Youknow, I'm not going to get offended.
Let's not go crazy thought, Let'skeep it constructive. Yeah, no
death threats. I'm fine with everythingelse. But if you do that,
though, leave your own podcast sothat we can listen to it. Yeah,

(32:31):
and that's something that I will dooccasionally. If you're an indie podcaster
and you you know, want toreach out and have me critique your podcast,
there's a pretty decent chance that I'lldo it. I don't do it
all the time, but yeah,you know, I definitely try to give
back to the community because along theway, there were people that, like

(32:51):
you know, random people off ofReddit or Twitter or whatever that listen to
an episode and said, hey man, here's some things you could probably change.
And then I've just made it ahabit to at least given an honest
effort when somebody gives me criticism,and then it seems like it has always
turned out in for the better,you know, because I think, you
know, a small percentage of peoplethat have a negative thought about your show

(33:12):
are actually going to talk about it. So if there's one person that says
it, there's probably twenty more peoplethat are thinking it that just aren't going
to care enough to reach out andtell you to fix it. Yeah,
I completely agree. So one finalquestion, is your show still fun?
Because I see people on Twitter commentthat when they get negative reviews, they
don't want to change their show becauseit won't be fun. Is your show

(33:36):
still fun? Because you've changed ita whole lot, it's more fun.
I have never been more excited aboutmy show than when I pushed publish on
my episode today. I was sostoked to get that stupid, like tiny,
insignificant story out to the world.I was like a level of nerd
happy that I have never been beforein my life. I think that it's
it just gets better, you know. Like I think that one of the

(33:59):
things the indie podcasters especially need torealize is that like a lot of the
time, when people give you anegative review, like it is because they
want to care about it and theywant you to fix the things that are
bad, and like that's usually allthat it is. Now, I will
say, like, there are someone star reviews that I've seen that are
just like disgusting, and people shouldnot use the internet that way. But

(34:22):
if I've got a one star reviewthat says, like too much background noise,
I can't focus like that person wantsto focus, Like they stuck it
out long enough to decide that theycouldn't. So if I fix that,
at least that one person and thetwenty other people that felt that same way,
you know they might come back andstick it out. You know,
I couldn't agree more. Why don'tyou tell everybody where to find you?

(34:42):
Where to find your show all thedetails? Yeah, totally, it's Obscure
History. Like wherever you get podcasts. Most of my listeners are on Apple,
So if you go there, leavea review and a rating, because
we all know that that helps inthe mysterious algorithm. It helps people know
that the show is good. It'strue. Yeah, if nothing else that
helps people know that it's not abad show. Exactly. Twitter at All

(35:07):
the People pod because you can't changeyour user name and I was too lazy
to make a new one. Instagramat Obscure History podcast because Instagram lets you
change your user name, or ObscureHistory pod at gmail dot com for you
know, any kind of inquiries.Perfect, and no one has to write
any of that down. I'll putit all in the show notes so that

(35:28):
you can click it and get toall of your stuff. Awesome. Thank
you so much man, Thank youso much for being on the show,
and I'm sure I'll hear you onthe podcast. Awesome. Thanks to see
you later. Bye bye, yeahye. Thank you so much to Josh,
host of Obscure History, for comingon the show. We learned a
lot about the impact of the newand noteworthy on Apple podcasts, the importance

(35:50):
of sticking to a story, andwhat you can do on like a forty
dollars microphone from Amazon, which Iwill put the link in the show notes
below so you can check that out. Thanks again for listening to Podcast Creators.
Please hit subscribe rate and write usa review if you haven't already.
If you would like to be onPodcast Creators, just send me a DM
on any social media Reddit, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, I'm at Indie

(36:15):
dropping everywhere and we can talk aboutit. Thanks for listening. Bye bye.