October 31, 2022 • 30 mins
Andrew shares his love of American history by recounting two brave Americans who shaped the course of the Revolutionary War and why they were forgotten in the textbooks.
Website for U.S.A. history books: Wallbuilders.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Host (00:13):
Hi, Welcome to the podcast From The Edge Talking Common
Sense, because in this day, whowouldn't want a little common
sense, right?
I'm your host and thank you fortuning in..
In this show, I'll be speakingwith Andrew, who lives in
Connecticut and is an avidreader of American history.
(00:36):
He'll share with us many storiesof brave and intriguing men and
women who shaped America, andalso African American men and
women who not only shaped thecountry, but perhaps the
Republican Party.
These are stories you probablynever learned about or read in
(00:57):
school.
So I hope like me, you reallyenjoy what he has to share.
So let's dig in and get started.
Hi.
So Andrew, you grew up inConnecticut, and um, would you
(01:18):
like to tell the listeners alittle bit more about yourself?
Guest (01:21):
Yeah.
I grew up in Connecticut, likeyou said.
Uh, joined the Navy at 18.
Soon as I graduated high school,went off to bootcamp and served
in the Navy for about 11 and uh,almost 11 years, excuse me.
Just, just shy of 11 years andgot out, uh, went to college,
got married, have a daughter nowliving the good life here in the
Farmington Valley, and, and therest is history from there.
Host (01:42):
Okay, so today we're gonna be discussing a.
Men or women who shaped theRepublican Party.
And um, I know we had previouslydiscussed there were two heroes
of yours, two African Americansthat had a huge role to play in
(02:03):
the Revolutionary War.
Guest (02:05):
Correct.
Yeah.
Host (02:05):
Would you like to start talking about that?
Sure,
Guest (02:08):
sure.
So, uh, first one that comes tomind is the man by the name of
James Armistead(Lafayette) andJames was very, very pivotal in
the Revolutionary War,specifically in the Battle of
Yorktown.
That was the last final bigbattle between America and
British.
Uh, French were there as well,but the last final big battle of
the revolution, and once the,the British lost that battle, it
was really all downhill fromthere, the British didn't last
(02:30):
much longer, and, uh, shortlyafter that, the war was over.
But what James did to contributeso much to that battle, he
didn't, he didn't have a musket.
He wasn't taking thebattlefield.
He was never a soldier.
What he was, was a spy.
So prior to the, to the Battleof Yorktown, I'm not sure what
year he started doing this, buthe was asked and I stress asked,
(02:50):
not told, He was asked to go spyon the British, and he, you
know, he, he volunteered to doit.
He said, Not a problem.
And what the way he got into theBritish camp was the way he got
into the British camp was, hewent over to one of the camps,
you know, whatever camp he couldfind, um, this large contingent
(03:11):
of, of British soldiers.
And he said, You know, we, you,uh, you British please, please
take me in.
I'm a runaway slave.
Americans are just so horribleto me.
Will you please take me in?
So they agreed.
They took him in and he hadstarted doing odd jobs for the
soldiers.
You know, whatever he could do.
And he would just keep his earsopen, you know, and listen to
whatever he could, whatever hecould listen to.
(03:34):
As time went on, he, he, um, youknow, was doing all the work for
the British soldiers and there'sone British soldier in
particular, a senior officer whoreally took notice of, of what
James was doing and how good ofwork he was doing.
And that British Officer Generalsaid, James, you need to come
work for me.
You need to, nevermind, uh, theenlisted soldiers over here.
You need to come work for me.
(03:54):
So James, and that Britishsoldier, that British officer
that he went into work for was,was Benedict Arnold.
At that point, Benedict Arnoldhad already portrayed the
American cause.
He went back over, he went overto the British side and became a
general immediately.
So now he's working directlywith one of the senior officers
(04:15):
for, for the British side andexcuse me.
And so now he's(James) with theBritish and you know, he is
with, he's with, he is withBenedict Arnold.
And now he's really hearing alot of great stuff because he's
with one of the senior generals.
So what James would do is hewould, he, again, he would just
do what Benedict Arnold asked,keep his ears open, and then
(04:35):
relay the information to theAmericans and on the French
side, I'm not sure how he wasable to get this information.
I'm not sure if James could reador write and if he was, you
know, did he write letters orwas he in fear of those letters
being intercepted?
So he would just verbally gotell the British and Americans,
not British Americans, excuseme, the French and Americans,
(04:56):
uh, what, what he was hearing.
And if he did that, how did heget out?
What was his excuse to leave theBritish camp?
Again, I'm not sure how allthose details were worked out,
how he managed to do that, buthe did manage to get the
information to the Americans andthe French.
And one day, Benedict Arnold wassent away.
He was, he had to go, He wasordered to go somewhere else
and, and do whatever it is heneeded to do.
(05:18):
And there was another seniorBritish General who said, James,
you need to come work for me.
Stay here, come work for me.
And that was, um, uh, LordCornwallis, General Cornwallis
General Cornwallis was thecommanding officer for the
Southern British forces at thetime.
So now James hears all the greatstuff because he's, he's with
the senior.
(05:39):
Again, he's just doing histhing, working, taking care of
what the general asked him totake care of by keeping his ears
open as time goes on.
General Cornwallis comes up toJames one day and says, James,
you know the Americans, theyalways seem to be one step ahead
of us whenever we go out to findthem.
We think we know where they are.
We get to the location andthey're just gone.
(06:01):
They always seem to be one stepahead of us.
You know, I think we have a spyin our camp.
Now, I'm sure at this pointJames is probably ready to just
pass out.
He's probably so nervous.
I know I would be.
He, as if the British found outwhat he was doing, it would not
have taken kindly to him,especially General Cornwallis,
inviting a spy to work with him.
It probably would've beenincredibly embarrassing for
(06:22):
Cornwallis.
Had had everyone found out thatJames wasn't spy.
Excuse me.
Pardon me.
I'm just getting over a cold,everybody.
Host (06:30):
Yeah.
Don't worry about it.
Guest (06:32):
So he.
So Cornwallis keeps talking and,and says, James, you know, like
I said, I think we have a spy inthe camp.
But James, can you do me afavor?
Can you go over to the Americansand spy on the Americans for me
so we know what the Americansare doing?
So James, I'm sure probablybreathe a pretty big sigh relief
at this point, and James agreedto go Spy on the Americans and
(06:56):
the French for Great Britain.
So James goes over to theAmericans and the French and he
says that, um, you know, heexplains to them what Cornwallis
asked him to do.
So now is, is a perfectsituation.
You can't get a more perfectsituation than this because now
James has a reason to leave thecamp to go quote unquote spy on
the Americans.
(07:16):
And uh, so whenever he hasinformation to share, he has a
reason now to leave.
And when he would go over to theAmericans and the French.
The Americans and the Frenchwould give him incorrect
information to pass along to theBritish.
So he always came back withsomething good and at least, you
know, so the British thought, soit seemed like he was doing a
great job for the British.
So they suspected nothing.
(07:37):
And then all the information heended up gathering.
Um, I'm not sure, and I'm, I'mnot sure how long he did this
for, but I'm sure it sounds likeit was a, a really extended
period of time.
But all the information and allthe intelligence he was able to
gather for the French and theAmericans is what made the
battle of Yorktown possible.
Without his intelligence,there's an excellent chance that
we would not have fought thatbattle.
(07:57):
We wouldn't have decided to makea stand right there in Virginia,
Yorktown, Virginia.
And if we did, would we havebeen prepared enough to defeat
the British that day?
Well, we have known what thesize of the British forces were,
you know, how many artillerythey had, how many infantry they
had, ships, you know, navyships, all that information.
That's very, very critical Inorder for the Americans and
(08:18):
French to plan properly.
To understand what exactlythey're going to be going up
against.
Have we not had thatinformation?
If we did go through the battle,we could have very easily lost
that battle, which, who knows ifwe would've won the
Revolutionary War at that point,you know, what we have won.
If we had suffered a big defeatthere in Yorktown, and if we
still would've won, how manymore years would the Revolution
(08:39):
had gone on?
You know, would've extended ayear, two or three years longer.
Who knows?
We, you know, we'll never knowexactly what would've happened.
What we do know is that James'intelligence was incredibly
important.
So, and also what makes James sospecial.
Not, not only the fact that he,he really helped us win the
battle of Yorktown with his, um,with all the information he was
able to gather.
(08:59):
But he became America's firstdouble agent because don't
forget he was spying on theBritish Or the French and the
Americans.
But then the British said, Hey,can you go spy on the Americans
for us?
So he became America's firstdouble agent, and he's not in
our history books.
I think it's just unbelievable.
It's remarkable.
There are books that have him,you know, I, I've, you know,
(09:20):
that's about how I'm able tolearn about him, but we don't
learn about him in our schoolhistory books, in public school
history books at least.
So that was, that's, that'sJames Armistead, that's his
story.
He ended up surviving the warand, uh, he became very good
friends with General Lafayette,who was the, the commanding
general of the French forces.
He was over in America forseveral years and they, they did
(09:43):
get to meet one more time well,after the war, General Lafayette
came back to America sometime inthe 18, maybe late 18 teens or
early 1820s, somewhere aroundthere.
I have to double check the year.
But he did come back and to thehuge fanfare America loved
General Lafayette.
So people, huge crowds will comeout to see him.
(10:03):
And he was, General Lafayettewas down, down in the southern
colonies and he just happened tocross, cross paths with James.
So they did get to see eachother one more time before they
both passed away.
Host (10:13):
Oh wow.
That's amazing.
Um, did he ever get to meetGeorge Washington at all?
I'm not.
Okay.
Cuz I know Lafayette andWashington were very, very.
They were very close.
Guest (10:26):
And um, I know there was times when there were, Cause
there was other spy rings thatwent around that were around the
country.
The Culper spying ring.
Host (10:33):
That's right.
Guest (10:34):
New York City, Long Island area was, was very
popular and was very, um,instrumental in, in the
intelligence that they gatheredfor the, for the American side.
Um, but there was times whenGeneral Washington, he, you
know, he knew of the spy rings,but he didn't know who the spies
were.
So there's a good chance thatGeneral Washington never even
knew who James Armistead.
He may have known that James,that there was someone out there
(10:55):
gathering the intelligence,Excuse me, but he may not have
known who James actually was.
Host (11:04):
Oh wow.
Guest (11:05):
Excellent chance.
Cause that was, Those names,those names were, were close,
uh, closely guarded secrets.
Host (11:09):
Right, right.
That's true.
And then who is the second spy?
Guest (11:17):
Well, he wasn't a spy, but the second man, the second
man, again, African Americanman, just like James was, um,
his name was Peter Salem is asecond guy.
So Peter Salem, he was a, he wasactually a soldier in the
American Revolution.
Not like James who, who, who didthe work of a spy.
But, uh, Peter, he, he fought inmultiple battles in the American
(11:37):
Revolution, but there's onebattle in particular, the Battle
of Bunker Hill that he's mostknown for.
Um, and I say most known for,most people don't know his name
because he's not talked about inour history books anymore.
He was at one point, but notanymore.
And what, Um, at the Battle ofBunker Hill, we lost that
battle.
The British were veryrelentless.
They, they charged our lines.
(11:57):
We repelled the charge.
They came back a second time.
We repelled the charge a second.
It was either on the third orfourth attempt that British were
making to, um, to defeat us onthat day.
They were forming back up andthey were getting ready to
charge again, and I guess thatwas either the third or the
fourth time they were comingback and the Americans all
realized, We're outtaammunition.
(12:19):
We have no ammunition left.
What are we going to do?
They, they know.
They know the British are comingback.
They know they can't fight'emoff this time.
Do they run, do they getcaptured?
If they run, they get captured.
And what happens to them if theyget captured?
You know, there's this, they,there's, you know, they're
starting to panic, I'm sure atthis point.
Um, so what the, um, uh, whatPeter did, Peter had one round
(12:48):
left.
He had one bullet.
So he loads his musket.
And what Peter ended up doing ishe took aim and he fired, but he
didn't, he just didn't shoot atany old soldier he found, was
able to spot the commandingofficer of the British at that
particular British, uh, uh,infantry or platoon, whatever
they called it.
Host (13:07):
Right.
Wow.
And it has a, uh, the British,uh, the British officer
Guest (13:10):
was a major, I can't think of his name, but his rank
was a major, and Bri, uh, Petertook aim, fired and killed him.
Host (13:18):
Wow.
Guest (13:18):
Now, what this did, They confused the British, all the
soldiers because the, the manwho was barking out all the
orders, telling'em what to do,how to do it, and, you know,
running the whole show in theBritish side was dead.
So now there's no orders beinggiven out.
That caused mass confusion onthe British side.
The British were able toregather, you know, regroup
(13:38):
themselves and figure things outand, you know, uh, you know, the
second, the second man incharge, you know, stepped up and
they worked everything out.
However, that delayed that finalcharge.
Up on bunk on Bunker Hill,delayed the british's final
charge, which gave the Americansenough time to escape.
So without Peter Salem's expertmarksmanship that day, and just
(14:01):
the, the, the understanding of,you know, Okay, I have one
bullet left.
We gotta make this count.
He, you know, he didn't, like Isaid, he didn't shoot any old
soldier.
He took aim, particularlyspecifically at the, the
commanding officer of theBritish on the British side.
Because he knew what it would doto the British.
He knew it would give theAmericans the best chance for
escape and slow the British downas much as possible.
(14:23):
So he, he understood what to do.
He had expert marksmanship.
He actually hit his target.
And in doing all that, heprobably saved, easily saved
several hundred American livesthat day because there was an
excellent chance that most ofthose American soldiers would've
been captured by the British, orkilled by the British.
So he saved several hundredAmerican lives that day.
And his story is, or to me wasin our history books.
(14:47):
There's an organization that Istarted, uh, that I discovered
about maybe three years ago,called Wall Builders.
Their website iswallbuilders.com.
Host (14:55):
Okay.
Guest (14:55):
And they're non-profit dedicated to teaching, forgotten
American History.
And one of the things they havein their massive collection of,
of historical documents andartifacts is an old history
textbook that used to be taughtin public schools.
It was published sometime in the1850s I think..
And Peter Salem is in that book.
So we know, we used to teachpeople like Peter Salem in our,
(15:16):
in our public schools, but he's,he's no longer in there now.
Host (15:19):
Why do you think that is?
Guest (15:22):
Well, there's, there's probably multiple reasons I
would say I, I probably can'tpin it down to just one specific
reason, is my guess.
But, um, I know one, one reasonwhy people like, Peter, like
James, aren't in our historybooks anymore, is, uh, Woodrow
Wilson.
When he was, before he becamepresident, before he was
governor or even president ofPrinceton University, uh, he
(15:45):
wrote a, you know, a threevolume, I think believe it was
three volume, but, uh, mul,multi volume set of American
history.
He went back to, I think maybethe pilgrims was maybe just
totally before the pilgrams.
And went up to the present dayat that time, he wrote it very
turn of the very early 20thcentury, 1905 ish, give or take
a year or two on that.
I can't remember the exact yearthat, uh, the volumes came out,
(16:08):
but he wrote, uh, he wrote theAmerican history, you know,
those American history books,and it was supposed to be the
complete history of, of Americaup to that point.
And people like James and Peterweren't in it.
Other, other notable AfricanAmericans Harriet Tubman, she
wasn't in it, and she was aliveat the time.
Oh, Booker T Washington.
(16:29):
He wasn't in it.
He was alive at that time.
You couldn't think to interviewthese two very important people.
Host (16:34):
Of course.
Guest (16:35):
I mean, Harriet Tubman, besides her working underground
Railroad, from what I under,from what I've read, she helped
rescue over 90 people fromslavery, which is tremendous.
She also served as a spy duringthe During for the union, during
the Civil War.
So she did a lot of amazingthings.
It wasn't, it wasn't just, andI, and I don't try to, you know,
downgrade it in any way.
Cause Underground Railroad wasincredible but she didn't just
(16:57):
do that.
She did other things as well,and uh, you couldn't think to
interview her real quick, so hedidn't include those people.
In the American History book,there is one reference to
African Americans, from what Iunderstand.
I haven't personally looked atthat three volume set.
Excuse me.
But, um, from what I saw, I sawa video that wall builders
(17:18):
produced.
It's on YouTube.
You can look up wall builders onYouTube as well.
And they, they have their ownchannel.
They, they put a lot of greatvideos, a lot of great history,
and they, they showed a copy ofthe, of the three volumes set in
this particular video, and theyopened up the book and there is
a, a, um, a reference to anAfrican American male.
Not anyone in particular.
(17:38):
And I'd tell you, I'll just putit, you know, bluntly here.
The, the, um, that picture theyused wasn't exactly a very
flattering picture.
It was a, it was a drawing, notan actual photograph, and it
wasn't very flattering to saythe least.
Host (17:51):
Oh my gosh.
Guest (17:52):
So, well, so what happened at that point?
He writes the volumes and thenpeople start learning from those
three volume sets.
They start learning Americanhistory from the, uh, the work
that he did, the, the books thathe.
So you get that first generationthere, very early 20th century.
They don't learn those amazingnames like Peter Salem and James
Armstead.
(18:13):
We still know about Harry Tubmanand Booker T Washington.
That's good.
They're, they're still in ourhistory books.
Right.
And even like Fedrick Douglastoo.
Fedrick Douglas, you know, he's,you know, I, those are names
that I learned, I rememberlearning in school.
Um, so that's good.
Um, but the names before that,like, you know, like Peter and,
and, and James and there'sothers as well.
It's not, it's not just them.
There's plenty other AfricanAmericans
Host (18:34):
yeah, I think I had mentioned to you before about
Ida B.
Wells Barnett.
She was a journalist and sheinvestigated a lot of lynchings
that occurred and she ended upadvocating for a lot of the
anti-lynching laws.
And, um, so she, she has been,You know, not really her story
(18:55):
has not been told, I should say.
Guest (18:57):
No, not, not to the extent that it should be for
sure.
I mean, at the very least,briefly mention that story.
I mean, how long did it take meto tell a story of Peter Salem?
Right?
I, I think a public school canfit that into their curriculum
for one day.
You know, take, take fiveminutes in one day and at least
briefly mention the name PeterSalem.
Um, so now with that, with that,those three volumes that, that,
(19:20):
um, Woodrow Wilson wrote, Peoplestart learning US history from
it.
And then those individuals, theygrow up, they become, some of
them become teachers, and thenthey're teaching the next
generation from the books thatthey've read from Woodrow
Wilson.
So it just, it just cascaded onfrom generation after generation
where they're using, not justWoodrow Wilson said, but all
(19:41):
stems from, from his and othervolumes that were written around
that.
when Black Americans werewritten out of our history
books.
So to this day, that's why yougot so many people this day who
don't know those names, becausegenerations before us were never
taught them.
So if you, you know, if youweren't taught something, you're
not gonna be able to teach it tosomebody else.
Host (20:02):
That's right.
Exactly.
And it's, it's unfortunate toobecause, um, Woodrow Wilson, I
mean, it's no surprise therethat he was, he tended to have a
lot of discriminatory attitudestoward, towards African
Americans.
Oh yeah.
And he was the president of theUnited States.
Guest (20:23):
Oh yeah.
He was, he was.
It was no secret that he was aracist.
He, he most certainly was.
Um, you know, he showed the, thefirst motion picture and the
White House ever shown wasduring his administration.
It was, Uh, gosh, what was that?
I was, it was a Ku Klux Klan.
Host (20:38):
Oh.
The Birth of a nation?
Guest (20:39):
Birth Of A Nation.
Thank you.
Host (20:41):
Yeah.
It was about the kkk.
Yeah,
Guest (20:43):
yeah.
And, and that's what reallyhelped revive the Ku Klux Klan
at that point, because the Klanwas started shortly after the
Civil War by Democrats, notnecessarily the Democrat Party.
You know, I'll, you know, putthat out there..They were
exactly affiliated with theDemocrat Party.
However, I'm, you know, I.
Certainly say they probablyworked together.
Um, but it was Democrats whoformed the Ku Klux Klan down in
(21:06):
the south.
And that Klan, you know, whenyou get to the early 20th
century, Well, Woodrow Wilson ispresident, so you're talking
about like 19, I think it wasaround 1912 ish or so when he
became president, give or take.
Host (21:18):
Yeah.
Guest (21:18):
A year or two, somewhere around there.
Host (21:19):
That's right.
Cause he also started the UNoriginally at that time, the, at
least the foundation for theUnited Nations.
Guest (21:28):
Yeah, I think they wanted to call it the League of
Nations, but
Host (21:30):
That's right.
Guest (21:30):
That's exactly after World War One to, you know, not,
you know, have something likethat ever happen again.
Host (21:35):
Right, Exactly.
Guest (21:37):
But the Klan started, The Klan was on the decline in the
early 20th century duringWoodrow Wilson's administration.
and then he shows Birth of ANation really kind of publicized
that movie and that that helped.
I mean, there was other things.
I'm sure it wasn't just WoodrowWilson showing that movie, but
that certainly was acontributing factor to the
revival of the Ku Klux Klan inthe early 20th century.
Host (21:59):
Right.
Well, that's so fascinating.
And it's just incredible thebravery of these men and women,
I should say too.
Guest (22:08):
Oh, yeah, Ladies, Ladies did a lot of tremendous things
necessarily.
African American ladies, I'msure African American ladies,
but ladies in general did a lotof amazing things in the
Revolutionary War.
Host (22:19):
Right.
Even, And when you said theCulper ring too in Long Island,
um, I think there was a coupleof women that were spies Oh
yeah.
That were, you know, reallyputting their lives on the line.
I think one was married even.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so it's just so fascinatingto hear them come to life.
Guest (22:41):
Yeah.
I mean, there was, there werestories.
There was a group of, it wastwo.
Who saved our continental armyat Valley Forge.
So the Valley Forge, you know,we, we've heard that story,
right?
And, um, you know, in our, atleast I remember learning that
story in public school in myhistory classes, right?
So Valley Forge right, isbrutal.
Horrible, horrible winter.
Very early on we're getting ourbutts kicked by the British.
(23:03):
So the morale just generallylow.
Now we got this brutal winterbeating on the Army, killing
people literal.
So morale is at an all time low.
You know, can we hold the armytogether?
And uh, I don't know the women'snames cuz their names from my
understanding have been lostover history.
So over time.
That's right.
But their stories have not beenlost, fortunately.
(23:26):
Um, they're not exactly wellknown.
But what happened there was oneday and none of the soldiers, my
understanding, none of thesoldiers knew this was gonna
happen.
There was, um, Two wagon loads.
I think it was more than maybetwo, maybe, maybe more, more
than two.
But wagons come in and pulled byteams of oxen with supplies on
them, and the ox.
(23:47):
The wagons were driven by women.
Women had, they did the work togather all this material, all
these supplies, to deliver it toValley Forge.
They went through all this deepsnow, however deep the snow was,
and just the brutal temperaturesdriving the oxen through all
this, can imagine what it's liketo try to drive oxen.
Deep snow and wood areas.
(24:08):
There's no highway systems then,
Host (24:10):
or are no sleds.
Guest (24:11):
I mean, obvious they do, but they got the supplies there.
I can't remember how many wagonsthey, they delivered, but it
was, it was certainly more thanone.
And all these supplies were ahuge morale booster, obviously,
to the soldiers.
They gave'em, you know,obviously those food, I'm sure
they'll buy blankets, maybetents, maybe some clothing.
I'm not sure if they broughtguns and ammunition with them or
(24:34):
if it was just merely food andyou know, stuff for shelter and
things like that.
Um, but you certainly, I mean,we'll never know what would've
happened had they not done whatthey did.
But, you know, I think it's, uh,you can certainly make the
argument that had those womennot taken upon themselves to
gather all that material.
Then deliver it to the soldiersof Valley Forge.
(24:57):
Would we have, would our, wouldthe Continental Army have
survived that winter of ValleyForge?
Would, would we have gone on tofight that that coming spring
and continue on with the war?
Because maybe there wouldn'thave been an army after that
winter.
Host (25:09):
I don't think so.
I mean, just think about whomade up that Continental Army.
They were farmers.
Yeah.
They were just average Americanpatriots.
Really?
You know, black, white, cuzremember?
Black and white.
Guest (25:22):
Yes.
Our army was very muchintegrated at that time.
The very first battle, um,Battle of Lexington and Concord.
It was a congregation that wentout and met the British.
It was a group of men from theyall worship together at the same
church.
Not only do they fight together,they worship together.
And it's says, stories we don'thear about today.
We don't, you wouldn't thinkthat the, the army was
(25:43):
integrated back then, but itmost certainly was.
Um, and even, even, you can evensay that the, um, that black
soldiers were even morepatriotic than white soldiers,
cuz black soldiers on averageserve about four times, I think
four times or even more longerthan the average white soldier.
Host (26:00):
But they were not trained, you know, um, like the British
soldiers were.
So no, it was such a huge uphillbattle, really.
I mean, it was a miracle Yes.
That our side won
Guest (26:15):
Yep.
Um, it's absolutelyunbelievable.
We had, um, big break after bigbreak in that war.
And even just little thingslike, like what those women did,
like gathering those supplies.
We had weather go our way atcertain battles where, uh, the
weather kind of concealed ourmovements and, um, made things
difficult for, um, for theBritish.
(26:35):
And you know, some people willsay it's a, you know, divinely,
um, you know, that God had hishand.
In, in our victory over theBritish.
So yeah, that's, there's no waywe should have won that war.
Host (26:47):
That's true.
I know, I know.
And, uh, do you have anyoneelse, uh, I know we had
discussed, you had mentionedsomething about the Civil War or
did you wanna save that for nexttime?
Cause I would really love tohave you back, um, as a regular
guest to talk about all thesedifferent people of history that
(27:12):
shaped America.
Guest (27:14):
I, I would love to come back for sure.
You know, work out a regularschedule, but I'd definitely
love to come back and, yeah,we'll save it for, save it for
another time.
I'd like to, there, there is oneindividual I can think of off
the top of my head who fought inthe Civil War, very instrumental
in, uh, in his contributions to,to defeating the Confederacy
and, and, uh, just kind ofoverall why it's important to,
(27:36):
to learn American.
You know, history in general Ithink is important, but I, I
gravitate particularly to, toAmerican history.
Got a little, uh, little biastowards America, I suppose, but,
uh, little, little favoritismtowards America.
Host (27:49):
There's no problem there.
Guest (27:50):
Nope.
But, um, you, so I definitelygravitate towards that.
But, um, history in general isincredibly important to know
because it's, you know, who, ifyou like, the, the old saying
goes, I don't know who said it,but those who don't learn
history are doomed to repeat it.
It's so 100% true and just someof the, the arguments you hear
from, from the left these dayson, on how they try to portray
(28:12):
our founding fathers, how theytry to portray how things were
in America, you know, evenbefore the American Revolution,
you know, days of the pilgrims.
When, uh, days, you know, when,uh, Jamestown first established
and all that, and the whole 1619project that's, its complete
garbage.
That's 16.
I've, I've read part of it.
I didn't read the whole thingcuz it's a series, it's a series
(28:33):
of, of, uh, essays.
And if I did read, um, NicoleHannah Jones' particular essay
and it, the Historical Facts,there's just massive gaping
holes in her history and howshe's presenting it.
Unbelievable that she's leavingout so many key facts and so,
and some really, reallyimportant people that really
would kind of give you a morecomplete picture of that, of
(28:56):
what she's trying to tell you.
But she's either, she's ignorantto the history.
Which isn't, which I wouldn'thold that against her because
we've had people like WoodrowWilson write out, um, people who
are incredibly important to ourhistory.
So she just may not have neverlearned some of this history,
which I totally understand.
Or she's got an agenda, it's oneof two.
I'm not sure which it is.
(29:17):
But um, yeah, I definitely loveto come back and talk about
those things.
Um, you know, let's get, getpeople some good resources to,
to go and they can researchthese things on their own.
Um, there's lots of, there,there are resources out there.
People can learn this stuff ontheir own.
Host (29:33):
Okay, great.
Well thank you so much thenAndrew.
I appreciate it for taking yourtime to talk to us and this was,
like I said, a reallyfascinating conversation and I'd
like to do more so
Guest (29:47):
for sure.
And I promise less coffee nexttime.
Host (29:50):
All right, so until next time.
Guest (29:52):
Right.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye-Bye.
Thanks a lot for tuning in and Ireally hope you enjoyed the show
with Andrew and listening towhat he had to say.
So until next time, bye.
Hi, Welcome to the podcast From The Edge Talking Common
Sense, because in this day, whowouldn't want a little common
sense, right?
I'm your host and thank you fortuning in..
In this show, I'll be speakingwith Andrew, who lives in
Connecticut and is an avidreader of American history.
(00:36):
He'll share with us many storiesof brave and intriguing men and
women who shaped America, andalso African American men and
women who not only shaped thecountry, but perhaps the
Republican Party.
These are stories you probablynever learned about or read in
(00:57):
school.
So I hope like me, you reallyenjoy what he has to share.
So let's dig in and get started.
Hi.
So Andrew, you grew up inConnecticut, and um, would you
(01:18):
like to tell the listeners alittle bit more about yourself?
Guest (01:21):
Yeah.
I grew up in Connecticut, likeyou said.
Uh, joined the Navy at 18.
Soon as I graduated high school,went off to bootcamp and served
in the Navy for about 11 and uh,almost 11 years, excuse me.
Just, just shy of 11 years andgot out, uh, went to college,
got married, have a daughter nowliving the good life here in the
Farmington Valley, and, and therest is history from there.
Host (01:42):
Okay, so today we're gonna be discussing a.
Men or women who shaped theRepublican Party.
And um, I know we had previouslydiscussed there were two heroes
of yours, two African Americansthat had a huge role to play in
(02:03):
the Revolutionary War.
Guest (02:05):
Correct.
Yeah.
Host (02:05):
Would you like to start talking about that?
Sure,
Guest (02:08):
sure.
So, uh, first one that comes tomind is the man by the name of
James Armistead(Lafayette) andJames was very, very pivotal in
the Revolutionary War,specifically in the Battle of
Yorktown.
That was the last final bigbattle between America and
British.
Uh, French were there as well,but the last final big battle of
the revolution, and once the,the British lost that battle, it
was really all downhill fromthere, the British didn't last
(02:30):
much longer, and, uh, shortlyafter that, the war was over.
But what James did to contributeso much to that battle, he
didn't, he didn't have a musket.
He wasn't taking thebattlefield.
He was never a soldier.
What he was, was a spy.
So prior to the, to the Battleof Yorktown, I'm not sure what
year he started doing this, buthe was asked and I stress asked,
(02:50):
not told, He was asked to go spyon the British, and he, you
know, he, he volunteered to doit.
He said, Not a problem.
And what the way he got into theBritish camp was the way he got
into the British camp was, hewent over to one of the camps,
you know, whatever camp he couldfind, um, this large contingent
(03:11):
of, of British soldiers.
And he said, You know, we, you,uh, you British please, please
take me in.
I'm a runaway slave.
Americans are just so horribleto me.
Will you please take me in?
So they agreed.
They took him in and he hadstarted doing odd jobs for the
soldiers.
You know, whatever he could do.
And he would just keep his earsopen, you know, and listen to
whatever he could, whatever hecould listen to.
(03:34):
As time went on, he, he, um, youknow, was doing all the work for
the British soldiers and there'sone British soldier in
particular, a senior officer whoreally took notice of, of what
James was doing and how good ofwork he was doing.
And that British Officer Generalsaid, James, you need to come
work for me.
You need to, nevermind, uh, theenlisted soldiers over here.
You need to come work for me.
(03:54):
So James, and that Britishsoldier, that British officer
that he went into work for was,was Benedict Arnold.
At that point, Benedict Arnoldhad already portrayed the
American cause.
He went back over, he went overto the British side and became a
general immediately.
So now he's working directlywith one of the senior officers
(04:15):
for, for the British side andexcuse me.
And so now he's(James) with theBritish and you know, he is
with, he's with, he is withBenedict Arnold.
And now he's really hearing alot of great stuff because he's
with one of the senior generals.
So what James would do is hewould, he, again, he would just
do what Benedict Arnold asked,keep his ears open, and then
(04:35):
relay the information to theAmericans and on the French
side, I'm not sure how he wasable to get this information.
I'm not sure if James could reador write and if he was, you
know, did he write letters orwas he in fear of those letters
being intercepted?
So he would just verbally gotell the British and Americans,
not British Americans, excuseme, the French and Americans,
(04:56):
uh, what, what he was hearing.
And if he did that, how did heget out?
What was his excuse to leave theBritish camp?
Again, I'm not sure how allthose details were worked out,
how he managed to do that, buthe did manage to get the
information to the Americans andthe French.
And one day, Benedict Arnold wassent away.
He was, he had to go, He wasordered to go somewhere else
and, and do whatever it is heneeded to do.
(05:18):
And there was another seniorBritish General who said, James,
you need to come work for me.
Stay here, come work for me.
And that was, um, uh, LordCornwallis, General Cornwallis
General Cornwallis was thecommanding officer for the
Southern British forces at thetime.
So now James hears all the greatstuff because he's, he's with
the senior.
(05:39):
Again, he's just doing histhing, working, taking care of
what the general asked him totake care of by keeping his ears
open as time goes on.
General Cornwallis comes up toJames one day and says, James,
you know the Americans, theyalways seem to be one step ahead
of us whenever we go out to findthem.
We think we know where they are.
We get to the location andthey're just gone.
(06:01):
They always seem to be one stepahead of us.
You know, I think we have a spyin our camp.
Now, I'm sure at this pointJames is probably ready to just
pass out.
He's probably so nervous.
I know I would be.
He, as if the British found outwhat he was doing, it would not
have taken kindly to him,especially General Cornwallis,
inviting a spy to work with him.
It probably would've beenincredibly embarrassing for
(06:22):
Cornwallis.
Had had everyone found out thatJames wasn't spy.
Excuse me.
Pardon me.
I'm just getting over a cold,everybody.
Host (06:30):
Yeah.
Don't worry about it.
Guest (06:32):
So he.
So Cornwallis keeps talking and,and says, James, you know, like
I said, I think we have a spy inthe camp.
But James, can you do me afavor?
Can you go over to the Americansand spy on the Americans for me
so we know what the Americansare doing?
So James, I'm sure probablybreathe a pretty big sigh relief
at this point, and James agreedto go Spy on the Americans and
(06:56):
the French for Great Britain.
So James goes over to theAmericans and the French and he
says that, um, you know, heexplains to them what Cornwallis
asked him to do.
So now is, is a perfectsituation.
You can't get a more perfectsituation than this because now
James has a reason to leave thecamp to go quote unquote spy on
the Americans.
(07:16):
And uh, so whenever he hasinformation to share, he has a
reason now to leave.
And when he would go over to theAmericans and the French.
The Americans and the Frenchwould give him incorrect
information to pass along to theBritish.
So he always came back withsomething good and at least, you
know, so the British thought, soit seemed like he was doing a
great job for the British.
So they suspected nothing.
(07:37):
And then all the information heended up gathering.
Um, I'm not sure, and I'm, I'mnot sure how long he did this
for, but I'm sure it sounds likeit was a, a really extended
period of time.
But all the information and allthe intelligence he was able to
gather for the French and theAmericans is what made the
battle of Yorktown possible.
Without his intelligence,there's an excellent chance that
we would not have fought thatbattle.
(07:57):
We wouldn't have decided to makea stand right there in Virginia,
Yorktown, Virginia.
And if we did, would we havebeen prepared enough to defeat
the British that day?
Well, we have known what thesize of the British forces were,
you know, how many artillerythey had, how many infantry they
had, ships, you know, navyships, all that information.
That's very, very critical Inorder for the Americans and
(08:18):
French to plan properly.
To understand what exactlythey're going to be going up
against.
Have we not had thatinformation?
If we did go through the battle,we could have very easily lost
that battle, which, who knows ifwe would've won the
Revolutionary War at that point,you know, what we have won.
If we had suffered a big defeatthere in Yorktown, and if we
still would've won, how manymore years would the Revolution
(08:39):
had gone on?
You know, would've extended ayear, two or three years longer.
Who knows?
We, you know, we'll never knowexactly what would've happened.
What we do know is that James'intelligence was incredibly
important.
So, and also what makes James sospecial.
Not, not only the fact that he,he really helped us win the
battle of Yorktown with his, um,with all the information he was
able to gather.
(08:59):
But he became America's firstdouble agent because don't
forget he was spying on theBritish Or the French and the
Americans.
But then the British said, Hey,can you go spy on the Americans
for us?
So he became America's firstdouble agent, and he's not in
our history books.
I think it's just unbelievable.
It's remarkable.
There are books that have him,you know, I, I've, you know,
(09:20):
that's about how I'm able tolearn about him, but we don't
learn about him in our schoolhistory books, in public school
history books at least.
So that was, that's, that'sJames Armistead, that's his
story.
He ended up surviving the warand, uh, he became very good
friends with General Lafayette,who was the, the commanding
general of the French forces.
He was over in America forseveral years and they, they did
(09:43):
get to meet one more time well,after the war, General Lafayette
came back to America sometime inthe 18, maybe late 18 teens or
early 1820s, somewhere aroundthere.
I have to double check the year.
But he did come back and to thehuge fanfare America loved
General Lafayette.
So people, huge crowds will comeout to see him.
(10:03):
And he was, General Lafayettewas down, down in the southern
colonies and he just happened tocross, cross paths with James.
So they did get to see eachother one more time before they
both passed away.
Host (10:13):
Oh wow.
That's amazing.
Um, did he ever get to meetGeorge Washington at all?
I'm not.
Okay.
Cuz I know Lafayette andWashington were very, very.
They were very close.
Guest (10:26):
And um, I know there was times when there were, Cause
there was other spy rings thatwent around that were around the
country.
The Culper spying ring.
Host (10:33):
That's right.
Guest (10:34):
New York City, Long Island area was, was very
popular and was very, um,instrumental in, in the
intelligence that they gatheredfor the, for the American side.
Um, but there was times whenGeneral Washington, he, you
know, he knew of the spy rings,but he didn't know who the spies
were.
So there's a good chance thatGeneral Washington never even
knew who James Armistead.
He may have known that James,that there was someone out there
(10:55):
gathering the intelligence,Excuse me, but he may not have
known who James actually was.
Host (11:04):
Oh wow.
Guest (11:05):
Excellent chance.
Cause that was, Those names,those names were, were close,
uh, closely guarded secrets.
Host (11:09):
Right, right.
That's true.
And then who is the second spy?
Guest (11:17):
Well, he wasn't a spy, but the second man, the second
man, again, African Americanman, just like James was, um,
his name was Peter Salem is asecond guy.
So Peter Salem, he was a, he wasactually a soldier in the
American Revolution.
Not like James who, who, who didthe work of a spy.
But, uh, Peter, he, he fought inmultiple battles in the American
(11:37):
Revolution, but there's onebattle in particular, the Battle
of Bunker Hill that he's mostknown for.
Um, and I say most known for,most people don't know his name
because he's not talked about inour history books anymore.
He was at one point, but notanymore.
And what, Um, at the Battle ofBunker Hill, we lost that
battle.
The British were veryrelentless.
They, they charged our lines.
(11:57):
We repelled the charge.
They came back a second time.
We repelled the charge a second.
It was either on the third orfourth attempt that British were
making to, um, to defeat us onthat day.
They were forming back up andthey were getting ready to
charge again, and I guess thatwas either the third or the
fourth time they were comingback and the Americans all
realized, We're outtaammunition.
(12:19):
We have no ammunition left.
What are we going to do?
They, they know.
They know the British are comingback.
They know they can't fight'emoff this time.
Do they run, do they getcaptured?
If they run, they get captured.
And what happens to them if theyget captured?
You know, there's this, they,there's, you know, they're
starting to panic, I'm sure atthis point.
Um, so what the, um, uh, whatPeter did, Peter had one round
(12:48):
left.
He had one bullet.
So he loads his musket.
And what Peter ended up doing ishe took aim and he fired, but he
didn't, he just didn't shoot atany old soldier he found, was
able to spot the commandingofficer of the British at that
particular British, uh, uh,infantry or platoon, whatever
they called it.
Host (13:07):
Right.
Wow.
And it has a, uh, the British,uh, the British officer
Guest (13:10):
was a major, I can't think of his name, but his rank
was a major, and Bri, uh, Petertook aim, fired and killed him.
Host (13:18):
Wow.
Guest (13:18):
Now, what this did, They confused the British, all the
soldiers because the, the manwho was barking out all the
orders, telling'em what to do,how to do it, and, you know,
running the whole show in theBritish side was dead.
So now there's no orders beinggiven out.
That caused mass confusion onthe British side.
The British were able toregather, you know, regroup
(13:38):
themselves and figure things outand, you know, uh, you know, the
second, the second man incharge, you know, stepped up and
they worked everything out.
However, that delayed that finalcharge.
Up on bunk on Bunker Hill,delayed the british's final
charge, which gave the Americansenough time to escape.
So without Peter Salem's expertmarksmanship that day, and just
(14:01):
the, the, the understanding of,you know, Okay, I have one
bullet left.
We gotta make this count.
He, you know, he didn't, like Isaid, he didn't shoot any old
soldier.
He took aim, particularlyspecifically at the, the
commanding officer of theBritish on the British side.
Because he knew what it would doto the British.
He knew it would give theAmericans the best chance for
escape and slow the British downas much as possible.
(14:23):
So he, he understood what to do.
He had expert marksmanship.
He actually hit his target.
And in doing all that, heprobably saved, easily saved
several hundred American livesthat day because there was an
excellent chance that most ofthose American soldiers would've
been captured by the British, orkilled by the British.
So he saved several hundredAmerican lives that day.
And his story is, or to me wasin our history books.
(14:47):
There's an organization that Istarted, uh, that I discovered
about maybe three years ago,called Wall Builders.
Their website iswallbuilders.com.
Host (14:55):
Okay.
Guest (14:55):
And they're non-profit dedicated to teaching, forgotten
American History.
And one of the things they havein their massive collection of,
of historical documents andartifacts is an old history
textbook that used to be taughtin public schools.
It was published sometime in the1850s I think..
And Peter Salem is in that book.
So we know, we used to teachpeople like Peter Salem in our,
(15:16):
in our public schools, but he's,he's no longer in there now.
Host (15:19):
Why do you think that is?
Guest (15:22):
Well, there's, there's probably multiple reasons I
would say I, I probably can'tpin it down to just one specific
reason, is my guess.
But, um, I know one, one reasonwhy people like, Peter, like
James, aren't in our historybooks anymore, is, uh, Woodrow
Wilson.
When he was, before he becamepresident, before he was
governor or even president ofPrinceton University, uh, he
(15:45):
wrote a, you know, a threevolume, I think believe it was
three volume, but, uh, mul,multi volume set of American
history.
He went back to, I think maybethe pilgrims was maybe just
totally before the pilgrams.
And went up to the present dayat that time, he wrote it very
turn of the very early 20thcentury, 1905 ish, give or take
a year or two on that.
I can't remember the exact yearthat, uh, the volumes came out,
(16:08):
but he wrote, uh, he wrote theAmerican history, you know,
those American history books,and it was supposed to be the
complete history of, of Americaup to that point.
And people like James and Peterweren't in it.
Other, other notable AfricanAmericans Harriet Tubman, she
wasn't in it, and she was aliveat the time.
Oh, Booker T Washington.
(16:29):
He wasn't in it.
He was alive at that time.
You couldn't think to interviewthese two very important people.
Host (16:34):
Of course.
Guest (16:35):
I mean, Harriet Tubman, besides her working underground
Railroad, from what I under,from what I've read, she helped
rescue over 90 people fromslavery, which is tremendous.
She also served as a spy duringthe During for the union, during
the Civil War.
So she did a lot of amazingthings.
It wasn't, it wasn't just, andI, and I don't try to, you know,
downgrade it in any way.
Cause Underground Railroad wasincredible but she didn't just
(16:57):
do that.
She did other things as well,and uh, you couldn't think to
interview her real quick, so hedidn't include those people.
In the American History book,there is one reference to
African Americans, from what Iunderstand.
I haven't personally looked atthat three volume set.
Excuse me.
But, um, from what I saw, I sawa video that wall builders
(17:18):
produced.
It's on YouTube.
You can look up wall builders onYouTube as well.
And they, they have their ownchannel.
They, they put a lot of greatvideos, a lot of great history,
and they, they showed a copy ofthe, of the three volumes set in
this particular video, and theyopened up the book and there is
a, a, um, a reference to anAfrican American male.
Not anyone in particular.
(17:38):
And I'd tell you, I'll just putit, you know, bluntly here.
The, the, um, that picture theyused wasn't exactly a very
flattering picture.
It was a, it was a drawing, notan actual photograph, and it
wasn't very flattering to saythe least.
Host (17:51):
Oh my gosh.
Guest (17:52):
So, well, so what happened at that point?
He writes the volumes and thenpeople start learning from those
three volume sets.
They start learning Americanhistory from the, uh, the work
that he did, the, the books thathe.
So you get that first generationthere, very early 20th century.
They don't learn those amazingnames like Peter Salem and James
Armstead.
(18:13):
We still know about Harry Tubmanand Booker T Washington.
That's good.
They're, they're still in ourhistory books.
Right.
And even like Fedrick Douglastoo.
Fedrick Douglas, you know, he's,you know, I, those are names
that I learned, I rememberlearning in school.
Um, so that's good.
Um, but the names before that,like, you know, like Peter and,
and, and James and there'sothers as well.
It's not, it's not just them.
There's plenty other AfricanAmericans
Host (18:34):
yeah, I think I had mentioned to you before about
Ida B.
Wells Barnett.
She was a journalist and sheinvestigated a lot of lynchings
that occurred and she ended upadvocating for a lot of the
anti-lynching laws.
And, um, so she, she has been,You know, not really her story
(18:55):
has not been told, I should say.
Guest (18:57):
No, not, not to the extent that it should be for
sure.
I mean, at the very least,briefly mention that story.
I mean, how long did it take meto tell a story of Peter Salem?
Right?
I, I think a public school canfit that into their curriculum
for one day.
You know, take, take fiveminutes in one day and at least
briefly mention the name PeterSalem.
Um, so now with that, with that,those three volumes that, that,
(19:20):
um, Woodrow Wilson wrote, Peoplestart learning US history from
it.
And then those individuals, theygrow up, they become, some of
them become teachers, and thenthey're teaching the next
generation from the books thatthey've read from Woodrow
Wilson.
So it just, it just cascaded onfrom generation after generation
where they're using, not justWoodrow Wilson said, but all
(19:41):
stems from, from his and othervolumes that were written around
that.
when Black Americans werewritten out of our history
books.
So to this day, that's why yougot so many people this day who
don't know those names, becausegenerations before us were never
taught them.
So if you, you know, if youweren't taught something, you're
not gonna be able to teach it tosomebody else.
Host (20:02):
That's right.
Exactly.
And it's, it's unfortunate toobecause, um, Woodrow Wilson, I
mean, it's no surprise therethat he was, he tended to have a
lot of discriminatory attitudestoward, towards African
Americans.
Oh yeah.
And he was the president of theUnited States.
Guest (20:23):
Oh yeah.
He was, he was.
It was no secret that he was aracist.
He, he most certainly was.
Um, you know, he showed the, thefirst motion picture and the
White House ever shown wasduring his administration.
It was, Uh, gosh, what was that?
I was, it was a Ku Klux Klan.
Host (20:38):
Oh.
The Birth of a nation?
Guest (20:39):
Birth Of A Nation.
Thank you.
Host (20:41):
Yeah.
It was about the kkk.
Yeah,
Guest (20:43):
yeah.
And, and that's what reallyhelped revive the Ku Klux Klan
at that point, because the Klanwas started shortly after the
Civil War by Democrats, notnecessarily the Democrat Party.
You know, I'll, you know, putthat out there..They were
exactly affiliated with theDemocrat Party.
However, I'm, you know, I.
Certainly say they probablyworked together.
Um, but it was Democrats whoformed the Ku Klux Klan down in
(21:06):
the south.
And that Klan, you know, whenyou get to the early 20th
century, Well, Woodrow Wilson ispresident, so you're talking
about like 19, I think it wasaround 1912 ish or so when he
became president, give or take.
Host (21:18):
Yeah.
Guest (21:18):
A year or two, somewhere around there.
Host (21:19):
That's right.
Cause he also started the UNoriginally at that time, the, at
least the foundation for theUnited Nations.
Guest (21:28):
Yeah, I think they wanted to call it the League of
Nations, but
Host (21:30):
That's right.
Guest (21:30):
That's exactly after World War One to, you know, not,
you know, have something likethat ever happen again.
Host (21:35):
Right, Exactly.
Guest (21:37):
But the Klan started, The Klan was on the decline in the
early 20th century duringWoodrow Wilson's administration.
and then he shows Birth of ANation really kind of publicized
that movie and that that helped.
I mean, there was other things.
I'm sure it wasn't just WoodrowWilson showing that movie, but
that certainly was acontributing factor to the
revival of the Ku Klux Klan inthe early 20th century.
Host (21:59):
Right.
Well, that's so fascinating.
And it's just incredible thebravery of these men and women,
I should say too.
Guest (22:08):
Oh, yeah, Ladies, Ladies did a lot of tremendous things
necessarily.
African American ladies, I'msure African American ladies,
but ladies in general did a lotof amazing things in the
Revolutionary War.
Host (22:19):
Right.
Even, And when you said theCulper ring too in Long Island,
um, I think there was a coupleof women that were spies Oh
yeah.
That were, you know, reallyputting their lives on the line.
I think one was married even.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so it's just so fascinatingto hear them come to life.
Guest (22:41):
Yeah.
I mean, there was, there werestories.
There was a group of, it wastwo.
Who saved our continental armyat Valley Forge.
So the Valley Forge, you know,we, we've heard that story,
right?
And, um, you know, in our, atleast I remember learning that
story in public school in myhistory classes, right?
So Valley Forge right, isbrutal.
Horrible, horrible winter.
Very early on we're getting ourbutts kicked by the British.
(23:03):
So the morale just generallylow.
Now we got this brutal winterbeating on the Army, killing
people literal.
So morale is at an all time low.
You know, can we hold the armytogether?
And uh, I don't know the women'snames cuz their names from my
understanding have been lostover history.
So over time.
That's right.
But their stories have not beenlost, fortunately.
(23:26):
Um, they're not exactly wellknown.
But what happened there was oneday and none of the soldiers, my
understanding, none of thesoldiers knew this was gonna
happen.
There was, um, Two wagon loads.
I think it was more than maybetwo, maybe, maybe more, more
than two.
But wagons come in and pulled byteams of oxen with supplies on
them, and the ox.
(23:47):
The wagons were driven by women.
Women had, they did the work togather all this material, all
these supplies, to deliver it toValley Forge.
They went through all this deepsnow, however deep the snow was,
and just the brutal temperaturesdriving the oxen through all
this, can imagine what it's liketo try to drive oxen.
Deep snow and wood areas.
(24:08):
There's no highway systems then,
Host (24:10):
or are no sleds.
Guest (24:11):
I mean, obvious they do, but they got the supplies there.
I can't remember how many wagonsthey, they delivered, but it
was, it was certainly more thanone.
And all these supplies were ahuge morale booster, obviously,
to the soldiers.
They gave'em, you know,obviously those food, I'm sure
they'll buy blankets, maybetents, maybe some clothing.
I'm not sure if they broughtguns and ammunition with them or
(24:34):
if it was just merely food andyou know, stuff for shelter and
things like that.
Um, but you certainly, I mean,we'll never know what would've
happened had they not done whatthey did.
But, you know, I think it's, uh,you can certainly make the
argument that had those womennot taken upon themselves to
gather all that material.
Then deliver it to the soldiersof Valley Forge.
(24:57):
Would we have, would our, wouldthe Continental Army have
survived that winter of ValleyForge?
Would, would we have gone on tofight that that coming spring
and continue on with the war?
Because maybe there wouldn'thave been an army after that
winter.
Host (25:09):
I don't think so.
I mean, just think about whomade up that Continental Army.
They were farmers.
Yeah.
They were just average Americanpatriots.
Really?
You know, black, white, cuzremember?
Black and white.
Guest (25:22):
Yes.
Our army was very muchintegrated at that time.
The very first battle, um,Battle of Lexington and Concord.
It was a congregation that wentout and met the British.
It was a group of men from theyall worship together at the same
church.
Not only do they fight together,they worship together.
And it's says, stories we don'thear about today.
We don't, you wouldn't thinkthat the, the army was
(25:43):
integrated back then, but itmost certainly was.
Um, and even, even, you can evensay that the, um, that black
soldiers were even morepatriotic than white soldiers,
cuz black soldiers on averageserve about four times, I think
four times or even more longerthan the average white soldier.
Host (26:00):
But they were not trained, you know, um, like the British
soldiers were.
So no, it was such a huge uphillbattle, really.
I mean, it was a miracle Yes.
That our side won
Guest (26:15):
Yep.
Um, it's absolutelyunbelievable.
We had, um, big break after bigbreak in that war.
And even just little thingslike, like what those women did,
like gathering those supplies.
We had weather go our way atcertain battles where, uh, the
weather kind of concealed ourmovements and, um, made things
difficult for, um, for theBritish.
(26:35):
And you know, some people willsay it's a, you know, divinely,
um, you know, that God had hishand.
In, in our victory over theBritish.
So yeah, that's, there's no waywe should have won that war.
Host (26:47):
That's true.
I know, I know.
And, uh, do you have anyoneelse, uh, I know we had
discussed, you had mentionedsomething about the Civil War or
did you wanna save that for nexttime?
Cause I would really love tohave you back, um, as a regular
guest to talk about all thesedifferent people of history that
(27:12):
shaped America.
Guest (27:14):
I, I would love to come back for sure.
You know, work out a regularschedule, but I'd definitely
love to come back and, yeah,we'll save it for, save it for
another time.
I'd like to, there, there is oneindividual I can think of off
the top of my head who fought inthe Civil War, very instrumental
in, uh, in his contributions to,to defeating the Confederacy
and, and, uh, just kind ofoverall why it's important to,
(27:36):
to learn American.
You know, history in general Ithink is important, but I, I
gravitate particularly to, toAmerican history.
Got a little, uh, little biastowards America, I suppose, but,
uh, little, little favoritismtowards America.
Host (27:49):
There's no problem there.
Guest (27:50):
Nope.
But, um, you, so I definitelygravitate towards that.
But, um, history in general isincredibly important to know
because it's, you know, who, ifyou like, the, the old saying
goes, I don't know who said it,but those who don't learn
history are doomed to repeat it.
It's so 100% true and just someof the, the arguments you hear
from, from the left these dayson, on how they try to portray
(28:12):
our founding fathers, how theytry to portray how things were
in America, you know, evenbefore the American Revolution,
you know, days of the pilgrims.
When, uh, days, you know, when,uh, Jamestown first established
and all that, and the whole 1619project that's, its complete
garbage.
That's 16.
I've, I've read part of it.
I didn't read the whole thingcuz it's a series, it's a series
(28:33):
of, of, uh, essays.
And if I did read, um, NicoleHannah Jones' particular essay
and it, the Historical Facts,there's just massive gaping
holes in her history and howshe's presenting it.
Unbelievable that she's leavingout so many key facts and so,
and some really, reallyimportant people that really
would kind of give you a morecomplete picture of that, of
(28:56):
what she's trying to tell you.
But she's either, she's ignorantto the history.
Which isn't, which I wouldn'thold that against her because
we've had people like WoodrowWilson write out, um, people who
are incredibly important to ourhistory.
So she just may not have neverlearned some of this history,
which I totally understand.
Or she's got an agenda, it's oneof two.
I'm not sure which it is.
(29:17):
But um, yeah, I definitely loveto come back and talk about
those things.
Um, you know, let's get, getpeople some good resources to,
to go and they can researchthese things on their own.
Um, there's lots of, there,there are resources out there.
People can learn this stuff ontheir own.
Host (29:33):
Okay, great.
Well thank you so much thenAndrew.
I appreciate it for taking yourtime to talk to us and this was,
like I said, a reallyfascinating conversation and I'd
like to do more so
Guest (29:47):
for sure.
And I promise less coffee nexttime.
Host (29:50):
All right, so until next time.
Guest (29:52):
Right.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye-Bye.
Thanks a lot for tuning in and Ireally hope you enjoyed the show
with Andrew and listening towhat he had to say.
So until next time, bye.
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