Have you ever wondered what it takes to create a true crime podcast that captivates audiences and helps solve a cold case? In this episode, I sit down with Madison McGhee, the creator of the groundbreaking podcast Ice Cold Case, which investigates the unsolved murder of her father from 2002.
We explore the complexities of balancing objectivity with personal connection when investigating such a deeply personal story. Madison opens up about the surprising turns her investigation has taken and how the podcast has become an invaluable tool for gathering new information about the case.
Key insights from our conversation:
- The unexpected ways Madison's background in TV and film production influenced her podcast creation
- How she navigates the emotional toll of investigating her father's murder while producing engaging content
- Her advice for aspiring podcasters looking to share their own powerful stories
Madison's experience demonstrates the potential for podcasting to not only entertain but also to make a real-world impact. Her determination to uncover the truth about her father's case while creating compelling content is truly inspiring. Whether you're a true crime enthusiast, an aspiring podcaster, or simply curious about the power of storytelling, this episode offers valuable insights into the art of crafting a meaningful podcast series.
To learn more, check out Ice Cold Case. You can also hear Madison now as Host of LA Time True Crim Podcast.
Follow Madison on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook. You can also see Madison podcast LIVE on the Family Matters Tour.
Madison McGhee is a Los Angeles-based producer, director, and writer mostly known for her break out podcast Ice Cold Case and now hosting the LA Times True Crime Podcast. Originally from Charleston, West Virginia, her portfolio spans across multiple genres including true crime, comedy, scripted, and documentary.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi and welcome to a brand new episode of Podcast
your Story.
I am your host, dr Julie MortyPearson, and I am so excited to
be back.
I'm very excited to start backwith a big one, a big one for me
.
This is someone who I found herpodcast.
(00:27):
I listened, I loved it, I dovein, I kept listening.
I started following her onsocial, I was engaging with her
and one day I said I'm justgoing to ask her to be on my
podcast.
So on Instagram, I believe, IDM'd Madison.
I said hey, hey, I love yourpodcast, I love what you're
(00:47):
doing, I would love to have youcome on my podcast.
And she said yes, this is thepower of podcasting, you know.
Now I will say, since I'verecorded this, madison has blown
up even more and I willdefinitely be asking if she can
come back for a follow-up foryou guys because, wow, she has
made some incredibleaccomplishments, not only with
(01:10):
her podcast but other podcastswhich maybe I'll mention later
on.
But this episode is all aboutMadison McGee and her podcast,
ice Cold Case.
Now, I will admit, I love truecrime.
I've always been a fan of truecrime documentaries, always been
a fan of TV shows and moviesbased on true crime like things
(01:34):
solving murders.
Even as a kid I loved Murder.
She Wrote.
I don't know it's always beenwho I am.
So Madison's was one of thefirst true crime podcasts I
listened to.
It wasn't a genre I really doveinto because I kind of went
more to podcasting for funlight-hearted, you know, pop
culture stuff or to learn aboutpodcasting, and so when I heard
(01:57):
about hers and listened I wasjust brought in the production,
the way she tells the story.
But most importantly, what itwas about for me was the
connection of why she decided todo a podcast.
Ice Cold Case is about theunsolved murder of her father,
something she did not learnuntil her 20s.
(02:18):
That even was a murder.
She had always thought herfather had died of a heart
attack.
So not only was that acompletely new piece of
information for her, being inthe production world, in the
documentary world, she decidedto use her skills and knowledge
to try to solve her father'smurder.
(02:38):
So Ice Cold Case is Madison'saccount of learning about her
father's murder, learning aboutthe details and now
investigating and trying tosolve it herself.
It is really an emotionalrollercoaster as a listener, I
can only imagine for her.
But this episode that I recordedagain a while back was before
(03:02):
her most recent season was putout, but we really talked about
her why.
Why did she choose podcasting?
You know she's made documentaryfilms, she's been in the
business, as they say but shechose a podcast, and so I really
want you to hear her why whyshe decided to do something
about this, a big part of herlife, and why she chose
(03:26):
podcasting.
I really appreciate Madison'swillingness to be open and
honest and share this part ofher journey with me and with you
.
I really think you're going tolove this episode.
I know you're going to learnsomething.
I know you're going to beinspired and you're going to be
like dang, she is doing it andagain, I will ask her to come
(03:46):
back.
So, with no further ado, a brandnew episode of Podcast your
Story with my guest, madisonMcGee.
Hello, my friend, welcome backto the Podcast your Story Now
(04:08):
podcast.
I am super excited.
I am a true crime fan.
I love true crime podcasts,documentaries and this is
someone I've been following fora while.
I got hooked on her podcastlast year and I'm very happy to
welcome Madison McGee to thepodcast.
Hi, madison, thank you forbeing here.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So excited to talk all things true crime, but first
I'm going to tell my listenersa little bit about you.
So Madison is a Charleston,west Virginia native, currently
living in Los Angeles.
She is a television and filmproducer who has been part of
top-rated productions acrossmultiple genres.
Currently, Madison is makingwaves with her groundbreaking
(04:54):
podcast Ice Cold Case thatdelves into the cold case of her
father's murder, which remainsunsolved after 21 years.
This podcast has drawninternational attention, earning
her the title of Webby Awardshonoree in 2024.
I saw that.
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Thank you, that's exciting that was crazy, like
the most excited I think I'veever been for anything in my
life.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I get it.
I was nominated for an awardfrom a very small new award
ceremony last year and it's justOK, people get it.
People get why I'm talking.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's that validation, that like people care, and I
think that's like when you startthis which I'm sure we'll get
into and it feels like there'ssort of you're just like sort of
doing this and talking into thevoid or into a microphone or
whatever, and then you're likeoh, someone on some panel said I
(05:57):
like this, and that's reallycool.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's amazing, it's a big honor.
It's amazing, it's a big honor,and I'm so glad for you, not
only because you deserve it, butbecause that just gets you more
recognition and more peoplewill start listening, and that's
what we all want, right?
Totally.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Totally Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
So Madison and I were bonding before we hit record.
First of all, you can see ifyou're watching the video.
You can see her cat in thebackground.
We are both proud cat moms andwe love our cat, as you can see
behind me as well.
We're also, you know, fans ofthe Bravo world, which I love
having someone to chat aboutthat.
(06:36):
But we want to talk about youand kind of your stories.
You work in the world of TV andfilm.
Had you ever done anything inpodcasting before this, or what
made you decide to go into thatarea?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So this is a funny little story.
I hadn't ever thought aboutpodcasting before, but when I
sort of decided that this wasthe route I wanted to go in to
do my story was a podcast,because I had gone back and
(07:10):
forth about do I do a doc, do Ido a podcast?
Like what's the right sort ofmedium for this?
When I had sort of thought,okay, podcast might be the way
to go, I realized I didn't knowanything about podcasting
because I have only donetelevision and film.
I was like I have to learn howto podcast because I don't know
how.
And just the logistics ofuploading, how long does it take
(07:30):
, populating, sharing, I meanit's like a very weird.
There's different platforms toupload a podcast to, and which
one's better and how does it allwork and whatever.
And I was like, okay, I need topractice with something that
feels inconsequential, what do Inot really care about, that I
can start a podcast about topractice, right, and it was
(07:52):
summer of 2021.
And I was like, oh, big Brotheris about to come on, I'll just
do a recap podcast about BigBrother for the summer and I'll
do every Friday.
I'll, you know, teach myselfhow to like, stick to a schedule
, do an episode recap recordwith a mic and, you know, do all
(08:14):
the things.
So I did this little BigBrother podcast and I really was
not planning on it becominganything.
I was just like, I'm just good,I just want to practice.
Well, of course I get reallycompetitive with myself and I
was like, oh, I need people tolisten to this podcast.
So I started doing interviewswith people who used to be on
(08:34):
the show.
So I start interviewing peoplewho were on Big Brother and then
they, like, would become myfriends.
And then the season that I wascovering ended and I wanted to
interview all the people whowere on it.
And now one of my closestfriends was someone who was on
that season of Big Brother.
And so then I sort of gotintegrated into this very weird
(08:55):
niche reality TV world in LAwhich we talked about.
How I know so many randompeople in that space outside of
being a producer on otherunscripted stuff?
And it was all because of thisvery silly little podcast that I
had and I don't do it anymore.
Obviously I was really just apractice.
There was like no intention ofit becoming a thing, but it did
(09:15):
gain a little bit of popularity.
I was talking with Sharon Tharp.
Shout out to Sharon Tharp.
She used to be the Us Weeklyreporter who covered reality TV.
We were at a party in Novemberand I saw her and I was like, oh
my God, it's Sharon Tharpe,that's so cool.
So I said, hello, introducemyself.
And she knew my podcast.
And that was kind of crazybecause I was like, oh, I want
(09:37):
her to know about, like Ice ColdCase, I want to talk to her
about my true crime podcast.
Maybe she could introduce me tosomeone at Us Weekly who could
write about it.
But she was like, oh yeah, donPrime podcast.
Maybe she could introduce me tosomeone at Us Weekly who could
write about it.
But she was like, oh yeah,don't care about that, I know
your Big Brother podcast.
And so that was kind of crazy.
But yeah, that's how I.
It's a very weird, but that'show I got into it.
That's how I practiced, by justdoing something that I knew.
(09:57):
I didn't want to waste my storyon learning the kinks of
podcasting and oh, I had a fauxpas when I uploaded today and
now I have to redo it.
I don't want to deal all ofthat with something so important
.
So I just practiced with that.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
That's so funny, I love that, and you know it's so
funny.
I mean totally different.
But in some way that's kind ofhow I started.
So when I started my petpodcast, I was like I have no
idea what I'm doing.
You know, I've learned somebasics, I took some courses, but
I didn't edit, I didn't doanything, I just started and
people started asking to be onit.
(10:32):
I'm like, ok, and now it'sturned into this thing where
it's a passion project.
I want to advocate for animalrescue and adoption and people
are listening and I don't evenhave to promote that much,
people just are subscribed andkeep listening and it's oh OK,
people want to talk about thisand want to hear it.
(10:52):
And now it's taught me all thethings to make this new one
better.
So that's what I love aboutpodcasting you can kind of dip
your toe in and see if you likeit and maybe even guess on other
people.
That's what I always tellpeople to do.
If you're not sure, go be onsomeone else's and see if you'll
even like it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Totally.
Yeah, it is weird.
You'd think, even if you liketalking, oh, you'll love
podcasting.
But it is very weird.
I mean, even like us right now,like you're not here, right,
very weird.
Podcasting is very weird.
Like, you feel like almost likeyou're talking to yourself and
it's just.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, it's a really strange yes Thing especially for
you because you do you, youknow basically you do it solo.
But before we get to that, sothe reason you kind of wanted to
test out because the story youwanted to tell was really
important to you, obviously, socan you tell the listeners a
little bit about what that storyis and why you decided to start
(11:39):
the podcast for it?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
yeah, my podcast is a true crime podcast.
I am investigating my dad'scold case murder from 2002, just
an unsolved case.
It never really went throughlike a trial.
It wasn't like someone wasacquitted and they can't find
the right person.
They just haven't found anyone.
It's a very weird sort of setof circumstances and so I
(12:05):
started this podcast as sort ofan investigative tool.
It's weird.
It started as like an advocacytool to sort of get the word out
about the case, to put pressureon the police department, and
has very quickly turned into aninvestigative tool of like tips
are coming in, of like tips arecoming in, information is
(12:29):
surfacing and so a lot of myleads are coming now through the
podcast, which is reallyinteresting and, yeah, it's my
sort of perspective of thatjourney, but also the case
itself and the logistics of thecase, the facts, the case files,
witness testimony etc.
Sort of all wrapped into this.
I would maybe say it's like adocumentary.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But in a podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, and so it's kind of turned you into an
investigative journalist in away, but also a researcher,
because you're having, you'regetting information, but then
you've got to dig more.
A researcher because you'rehaving, you're getting
information, but then you've gotto dig more and you know true
crime is such a specific kind ofset of skills I would imagine I
would have no word, any ideawhere to start to even get
(13:13):
information from the police, letalone to do all the things
you've done.
So what has surprised you mostabout the process of where you
started and what you thought itwould be and kind of where
you're at now?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Oh man, I mean, I thought it was going to be like
I don't even know a lot easier.
I really and like naively,really did believe that like you
could call up any policedepartment in any town in USA
and go, hey, I'm curious aboutthe disappearance of so, and
(13:47):
they just mail you a box ofstuff.
That is so not how it works.
And so when I called theBelmont County Sheriff's
Department to get access to thecase files which I'm looking at
right here, this is my dad'smurder file.
This is what's crazy.
I'll show you.
This is it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's it.
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Yeah, like you said, you havethis idea of like boxes are
going to be, like laid down foryou, with all this stuff, and
it's just like a pile of papers.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
This is literally it, and yeah, so getting this was
insanely difficult.
It took about nine and a halfmonths for me to get access
after the first initial attempt,and then, yeah, I expected
there to be more in there.
I expected you know even thecontents of this file to be more
in depth.
(14:40):
Give me more explanations.
Everything in there is like soconfusing and doesn't make any
sense, and so I just the wholeprocess as far as, like, the
information gathering, wasreally surprising, because I
just didn't know what to expect.
I'm also not a journalist, so Ihave no idea how to like put
all of this together.
Storytelling is like an insanelydifficult art.
(15:04):
I'm friends with a lot ofbrilliant storyteller, comedians
, writers, filmmakers, and Ireally underestimated how
difficult it is to tell a storyfrom beginning to end, and then,
even within that, every episodehas to have a beginning, middle
and end and, you know, add tothe arc of the actual story.
And how do you do that when youhave no idea where the story is
(15:25):
going, because this is still anunsolved case.
It's been just challenge afterchallenge to put this all
together on top of you know,actually reading through all of
this, investigating, askingmyself questions when do I go
from here?
It's been so much and it'sfunny, I love.
Thank you for saying that I ama journalist and an investigator
.
I love to hear that because Ido not feel that way and I, oh
(15:48):
yes, I am.
But I'm also.
You know, I write the episodes,I record them in my apartment,
I edit them.
I don't mix and master.
I'm very fortunate to have afriend who does that for me but
right when you know, we get offhere, I have to string out an
episode, and now we're doingvideo versions, which is like a
(16:09):
whole nother nightmare.
So I have to piece all thattogether.
So I'm like an editor as welland, you know, an executive
producer, because then I have tooversee everything.
When I send it off to be colorgraded, I have to oversee that.
And there's just so muchinvolved in all of this that I
really was like, when you lookat it from far away, you're like
(16:30):
you read what 45 pages of acase file and you write a little
podcast and you record it andthen you're done and that is so,
not it?
That's just the beginning ofall the things.
And then the promoting of it islike is so, not it?
That's just the beginning ofyou know all the things.
And then the promoting of it islike a whole nother.
Yeah, I spend more money andtime promoting my show than I do
(16:51):
on anything else, and all theother stuff takes up a lot of
time, right?
So the fact that the marketingtakes up double triple, that is
like my nightmare.
It's crazy.
So yeah's a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, you know, I think it's like the great thing
and not so great thing aboutpodcasting is people see it.
Oh, that's easy and in a way,it is to get started and to get
up and going.
But if you really want to do itwell and you want it to be
quality story content as well assound and video and all those,
it's a lot.
There's a lot of moving piecesand a lot of us.
(17:29):
You do most of it or all of ityourself and you know.
And then there's the whole,like you said, the marketing
piece.
Okay, I've created it.
Now how do I get people tolisten to it?
That's just a whole nother job.
Yeah, but the great thing aboutpodcasting is it can evolve,
which I think yours kind of has,as you're been telling the
story and, like you said, youstart to get more information.
(17:50):
I actually just listened toyour most recent episode today
and the last two episodes havebeen really interesting because
it's been a little differentthan what you had done prior,
because you were actuallyspeaking to someone who has been
said to possibly be like theprime suspect in this case, and
I could definitely hear adifference in the way your voice
(18:13):
is like when you were talkingto him, versus when you're like
narrating it more.
So how has that kind of changeand you know you went back to
Belmont and all of that processkind of been for you to navigate
through?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
oh my god, it's like the most emotional thing ever.
I feel like, yeah, my podcastvoice is very different than my
like regular voice.
I also am like a very I don'teven know how to explain it you
know those people who like smileand laugh when they're like
uncomfortable.
That's what I do, and I feellike when I was like
re-listening before we postedthe episode, I was like, oh my
(18:50):
god, I'm like laughing when I'mtalking to this guy.
Is that weird?
Do I sound like a serial killer?
And no, I think so, like when Ilisten to it you could.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
it's like you're trying to ease your own nerves
and speaking to this personwhile not acting like I don't
know what to think about whathe's telling me.
You learn things you had neverheard before, and so I'm
imagining your brain was justgoing like a million miles a
second.
Oh, totally.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's just the most emotional process ever.
Ever, I mean, I don't know ofanything I've done up to this
point in my 28, almost 29 yearsof life that has been more
emotionally taxing than this,and that moment was probably the
peak of you know, the crazinessof this journey is, you know,
(19:40):
it all culminated into talkingto this person and that was just
wild.
And also in a way where you'relike, how do I say this?
I feel like when everything youthink is true sort of starts to
unravel in front of you, it'sfrustrating and it's just such a
(20:04):
weird feeling.
And I've had that feelingbefore because, you know, I
thought my dad died of a heartattack and then I found out he
was murdered.
So that truth was sort ofunraveled in front of me and
then it felt like, oh, and nowhere I am again.
I believe this truth, and nowthat is also unraveling and it's
very bizarre and this processjust in general is insane and I
(20:27):
wouldn't recommend to anyone.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, I'm sure there's, because there's two
pieces.
It's like you creating this art, this content, this story on
this side and you're proud of itand you're trying to get it out
On this side.
It's you, it's your story, it'syour life, it's your family.
That's what I loved about, Iwould say, the first season is
the way you weaved into thestory of what happened to your
(20:50):
dad, with your experience ofdifferent family members and
what you knew when you found outand things like that.
So I'm sure it's a lot for youto take on because of the
emotional aspect of it.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, it really is.
It's yeah, because I'm tryingto do the job of a journalist,
which is to remain as objectiveas possible, right, but this is
like a very deeply personalstory and so to try to, you know
, showcase that side of it whilealso sticking to the facts,
(21:25):
right, the lines just overlap somuch.
It's very confusing and it'sdifficult to write.
And I talk a lot about we haveto rewrite episodes a lot,
because I'll do a first draftand then it's oh, this is too.
You've really this is not yourdiary, madison, and so then we
have to rewrite it and it's verydifficult to ride that line.
And you know, I did that onpurpose.
(21:47):
I set the tone of the show tobe that.
It could have been, you know,more of a journal, but it's just
, that's just not what I wantedit to be or what I envisioned.
And you know, we want to keepthe tone the same throughout,
even as things sort of evolveand shift and adjust.
And yeah, it's been a veryinteresting process point about
(22:18):
how to podcast, but also aboutmyself and how I handle these
situations and sort of how toprocess, you know, all of this
very crazy stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, I'm sure there are moments where you kind of
have to give yourself grace andgive yourself time.
And it's OK if you don't getthis done right now, because
you're processing somethingthat's like impacting your life
and you're like trying to makesense of it too.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, totally, and thank God for Bravo.
I mean shout it out.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Thank God for.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Bravo.
Thank God for Bravo.
Like I, you know, there aredays where I remember I took
about I don't know, maybe twoweeks I had a launch party for
part two of the podcast and Ihandmade 250 friendship
bracelets for everyone whoattended the party.
(23:02):
And I remember going why did Ido this to myself after I had
made 20 bracelets?
But it ended up becoming such aweird cathartic.
Oh, I'm going to take a breakfrom all of this stuff.
I just make bracelets and Istarted playing Real Housewives
of Salt Lake City when I startedmaking the bracelets and by the
time I finished all 250bracelets, I had watched all
(23:25):
four seasons of Real Housewivesof Salt Lake City in two weeks.
And that is like mental illnessbehavior and I should be locked
up.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But, come on, you had to get to the point where you
got to receipts through time.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I had to get to the end and it is such a like I had
to just be like.
If you need to watch you know aridiculous amount of Real
Housewives of Salt Lake City,ridiculous amount of Real
Housewives of Salt Lake Citythen that's what you need to do
today and that's fine.
And you know, I do beat myselfup about it a little bit because
(24:02):
I should be doing you know ahundred other things, but
sometimes we all need time andspace to just, yeah, you just
have to do that and yeah, I gavemyself two weeks to watch.
I mean that's, there are like 25episodes this season.
I watched 100 episodes of RealHousewives in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's sick, but you know you know you got to do what
you got to do.
It's funny because you know I'mmuch older than you.
However, you want to say I'm 46.
You know I have a lot ofeducation, I'm used to working.
You know fancy jobs and Bravohas always been my go-to it's
(24:41):
you know.
My psychology education kicksin.
I just got to understand whythese people are acting like
this.
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And I think that's why the true crime fans overlap
a lot with Bravo reality TV etc.
Because it's like the samepeople that are like well.
Why are people killing?
People are also like well.
Why is this woman, you know,going on television and drinking
eight bottles of wine beforeshe films?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Right, okay, yes, it's that whole like how would
you know you're yourself, you'renot being someone else?
You're actually saying this isyou, and.
But I love it because it's just, it's entertaining, it keeps
you going.
And then we have this communityonline.
You know all the well nowpodcasts.
A lot of them started out associal media people who would do
all the updates and it's justkind of like a fun little
(25:27):
community to be a part of andreact with and I couldn't give
up Bravo ever.
I know I love it, I love it.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I'm grateful.
I was a late adapter, but I'mvery grateful that I got.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, you know it was back in grad school, I think is
probably when I got into it,and it was just that.
You know I didn't want to readanymore or write or do any of
that.
I needed to just let my head doit.
And it's still because it'sentertaining.
Your mind keeps going and youfeel like, ok, I'm not just
sitting doing nothing at leastTotally, although some people
(26:03):
don't get it, but that's OK.
One of the things I love aboutIce Cold Case is and I'm sure
there are other two crimepodcasts that do this but yours
just felt special in that way,the way you tell the story and
you have the music and the soundeffects and the upbeats and the
you know I feel like thatreally carries the storyline.
(26:24):
Was that important to you ordid that just kind of come
naturally as you were creatingit?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, everything in this show is heavily considered
and thought out and thoughtthrough, from the music to you
know the timing of breaks inbetween breaths and like
everything is.
I go over and over and overeverything so many times.
And, yeah, that it's.
(26:50):
It is such an important pieceof this and I have this
knowledge just from film andtelevision.
A film you should be able tolisten to.
A film with no music and stillhave the same emotions that you
would if the music was added.
It should elevate, but itshould never sort of compensate
for the writing or anything likethat.
(27:11):
And that's like an old adagefrom the film and TV world and
people will criticize movies who, you know, rely too heavily on
music to build up that feeling.
And so I was really cognizantabout the music really adding
benefit to whatever it was, butalso making sure that the words
(27:36):
spoke for themselves.
And, yeah, it's a reallyimportant piece to me.
And the music, the originalmusic we use, is composed by a
wonderful friend of mine, mattBettinson.
He's fantastic and the rest wejust get royalty free.
But even then I'm like I mean Ilisten to.
Probably it's actually my leastfavorite part of doing this.
It takes the longest for mebecause I'm nitpicky about the
(27:58):
music.
I will listen to 400 songs forone section before I'm like,
okay, that's the song that goesinto the section because it's
all so important to me.
And if I can't find one, thenI'm like the no music, then we
just won't have any yeah, it'sdefinitely a rabbit hole you can
go down.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I know when I, you know I only have music for like
my intro and rabbit hole you cango down.
I know when I you know I onlyhave music for like my intro and
outro, but you can go down.
Oh no, I don't like that, or no, it's so long, oh yeah.
And I think that's a hard thingabout podcasting in general If
you script it, you can pick itapart.
When you record the audio, likesometimes I just have to tell
(28:34):
myself stop, I don't need toworry about every gap, every
every.
You know there has to be somenatural talking, that's how we
talk.
But you can really like go hardand then spend time on stuff
that maybe isn't as important.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But sometimes it's hard to back yourself off that.
Yeah, I spend a lot of time insort of every phase of the show.
But yeah, I definitely we're ina unique position because the
podcast comes out every otherweek and, like we recorded on
Monday for the one that comesout in two weeks, it's a little
(29:14):
stressful because we're likealways last minute I mean, we
finished today's episodeyesterday but it's nice because
it doesn't allow me too muchtime to pour over all these
details like 100 times.
If we had recorded theseepisodes five months ago, they
would all have been re -recordedfive times because I would have
too much time to be like, oh, Idon't like this, oh, we need to
redo this, oh, we can't do this.
(29:35):
So it's actually nice that wedo it in a bit of a pinch.
We could probably give myselfan extra week.
Maybe the two weeks is a bit ofa tight turnaround, but it's
nice that we do it sort ofwithin the month because it
doesn't allow for too much ofthat oh, let's change this.
Or oh, hearing it back afterit's fully done and going, oh,
let's just redo it, we don'thave time for that, so we don't
do that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, there's a good thing about setting a schedule
and sticking to it for a lot ofreasons, because then you just
have to get it out.
I'm trying to do that myself.
Consistency has always been mybiggest issue as a podcaster.
I think because of a lot ofthese reasons, you don't want to
just leave it that way orprocrastinate, which I have
always done.
Yeah, those are the hard partsof podcasting, so I'm sure
(30:18):
having a strict schedule kind ofhelps you kind of push yourself
along a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
It sounds yes definitely yeah, the show has to
come out when it's supposed tocome out.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Right.
So in terms of you know you'rein the second season now you,
like you said earlier, you'regetting a lot of tips, so that's
kind of directing some of whatyou're in the second season now
you, like you said earlier,you're getting a lot of tips, so
that's kind of directing someof what you're doing and of your
research.
Where do you feel like the showis going for you now and where
what are you hoping to do withit at this point?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
it's a good question.
Hopefully I solved the caseright, right, yes, ultimately
yes.
(31:18):
I think that it's yeah, I mean,I think similar of the people
who were around so that if Irefer to them later, you're
familiar with them and theirstory and their role sort of in
my dad's life.
And I end with a theory that Ihave.
And because I did that, peoplecame out of the woodwork and
(31:39):
said either no, that's not true,or yep, that's exactly what
happened.
And so now I'm sort of playingwith doing these installments of
episodes to end with, okay, andhere's a new theory based on
all of that.
And now here's you know, I'lltake six months off or whatever
(32:03):
and here's your opportunity tocall me up and say actually
that's not true, or okay, you'rea lot closer than you were
before, and just sort of keepdoing that until I get to a
point where it's like, and nowhere is exactly what happened.
Or now I've gotten this muchinfo I've heard from this person
or whatever, and now I'm, youknow, much more in tune with the
(32:28):
actual series of events thathappened that day.
So that's sort of my plan asfar as how to use this show to
solve the case and hopefully itworks.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, because definitely you're in this unique
situation where it's like thestory now is kind of evolving as
you tell it and changing andit's kind of directing you in a
way of where you're going withit.
But I know there's some bigthings you're trying to get to
and recently you kind of put outthat you have a GoFundMe set up
for the podcast.
(33:05):
What are you trying to do withthat?
Where is that going to help youto get to with the case and the
story and all of that?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's crazy how expensive life is.
I mean we are living in likethe weirdest.
I'm not going to get on thesoapbox about politics and the
economy and whatever, but I amseeing people who were like
insanely well off in my opinionlike filing bankruptcy and
(33:35):
companies that I've looked up to.
The production company thatmade Spotlight and Roma just
went under.
Yesterday they announcedthey're closing.
It's like we are living in avery strange, like borderline
Great Depression type of timewhere, like, things are just
crazy and as my show gets bigger, it becomes more complicated,
(34:00):
more complicated.
I mean even just explaining toyou the amount of time it takes
to do all of these aspects of myshow and I'm doing them.
It's basically a full-time jobfor free, so I have bills that I
have to pay and rent and peoplewho are working on the show,
with a guy who mixes the show,the guy who makes the music all
(34:22):
work for free.
No one's getting paid to dothis because we're not making
any money, but we all have tosurvive.
And it got to a point where Iwas like we're now, after today,
12 episodes into this show andI can't keep asking people to
cut me for like, for how long,100 episodes.
That's crazy, and so I reallywant to be able to start like
(34:45):
building even a small budget perepisode to be able to pay
people the guy who does thevideo editing, the guy who does
the mixing, like all of thisstuff, even if it's not a lot, I
want to be able to startcompensating people because this
is a job, and I think there'sthis weird connotation that,
(35:06):
like, well, if you're doing apassion project, that's what it
is, you don't need to get paidfor it and it's okay, right, but
you could still like your joband get paid for it.
That's a crazy thing to say.
So I decided I'm very I had beenadvised at the very beginning
of this journey to crowdfund andI was adamant that I would
(35:27):
never in a million years, ever,ever, ask anyone for money.
It just was something that Ifelt really weird about.
I was not comfortable doing itat all.
At the time.
I was working full time.
I mean, I'm a freelancer, but Iwas working all the time Like I
wouldn't have even known I wasa freelancer.
I was like hopping from job tojob.
So I was like I'm cool, I don'tneed to make money off this
(35:51):
because I'm doing other stuff.
Yes, I'm working late at night,I'm doing all this other you
know side hustle stuff, but it'sfine because I'm working.
So like my bills are gettingpaid.
It's no big deal.
And when my last television showwrapped on December 23rd, I had
this weird feeling that Iwasn't going to work for a while
and I have not gotten a callfor a TV show since, and it's
(36:16):
almost the end of April, so Ihaven't worked in four months.
And it was like to a pointwhere I was like, if I can't
survive off of this show, then Ihave to stop doing this show
and I need to go, like baggroceries at Trader Joe's or
something.
And that's just the reality ofit and I'm not above any job,
(36:37):
like I would do anything.
And it got to a point where itwas like my ego.
I had to put it away and reallythink about do I want to solve
this case?
Do I think this podcast ishelping me get closer to that?
And am I willing to ask peopleto donate if they enjoy the show
in order to help to do that?
(36:57):
Donate if they enjoy the showin order to help to do that?
And it was like, yeah, I have noother option.
And I mean, I sat on it for awhile.
We made the actual GoFundMe onMarch 16th and I didn't launch
it until April 9th or something,because I was like I don't even
want to share it, I don't evenwant to do it, and so it really
took me a while to.
Even when I post about it now,I'm like, oh my god, but it's
(37:20):
been really interesting andbeautiful to see people donate
because they consume the contentand at the end of the day, it's
.
I have made 12 episodes ofsomething that tens of thousands
of people download and findentertaining.
Right, like I should get paidfor that.
(37:40):
Right.
I'm like creating entertainmentin the same way that Bravo
makes money to make TV shows I'mmaking something that people
are consuming.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
They're saying that podcasts are being consumed
almost more than TV at thispoint.
Yeah, you know it's a trade-off.
Okay, if this is the contentyou want, you've got to help it
keep going in some way, whetherit's ads or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
It feels a lot like public radio and I think about
that a lot.
When I was a kid, I wouldlisten to the radio with my
grandma, like on my way to theschool, and they'd be like, hey,
if you like this radio station,throw us five bucks a month.
And it feels a lot like that.
Yes, and it feels a lot likethat.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yes, so much of what you're saying makes sense.
I mean, again, it's a totallydifferent reason behind it and
everything.
But that's how I felt with mypet podcast, because I've become
very passionate about it and Iget to have people who are
working in shelters and who arerunning rescues that need people
to understand what's happeningand how they can help.
But I pay for everything.
I do it all myself.
(38:39):
You know I haven't made anymoney off of it and it's not big
enough.
You know you have to have somany downloads to even start to
do ads.
So there is that point whereI'm like, ok, I got it, I got it
, something has to give.
And so, as part of why Istarted a second podcast because
you know I'm helping peoplestart podcasts so hopefully that
(38:59):
can help.
But it is hard because you getto this point where you believe
in it and there's so much of youin it.
You don't want to let that go.
But, like you said, the economyis what it is, you got to eat.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
So yeah, I want to help, really help, yeah it's
wild and yeah, and I also feltme trying to convince myself
that it was okay to do this.
I was like, okay, cool, if Iget you know 500 people that get
$5, right, like I don't needyou know everyone to give 500
bucks, that's crazy.
But if everyone could just givea little bit then now it's like
(39:32):
everyone feels like they're partof this and they want me to
solve it and they're sort ofinvested now in this and it
feels like you're building thisbit of a community, and so that
was another way that I justifiedit in my head of okay, now it's
we're really building.
This is like the core group ofpeople that are really riding
for this show.
And there are days where I donot want to do this and I want
to quit more than anything, andI can look back at that and say,
(39:55):
oh, but there's like thesepeople who like really believed
in you enough to like give youfive bucks or ten bucks or
whatever and like now you'resort of doing it for, like, that
added reason of, yes, you'redoing this for your dad and your
family and the closure of it.
Right, you're also doing it forthe people who, like believe in
you enough to like I mean, Idon't, like I understand the
value of a dollar I do not takeeven like a dollar donation I do
(40:18):
not take lightly and to thinkabout all of the people who have
already all of this and, yeah,hopefully we can just keep it
going.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Keep it going.
No, I love that because, yeah,I hate that.
You know I've said, oh, buy mea coffee, all these different
ways you can get a little money.
But there is also this if youdo it and people do give you
money, then there is thatincentive.
Ok, people believe in this,they believe in me.
I have to keep going.
I can't just give up nowbecause there's more at stake
and that totally is hard to putyourself in that place, but it's
(41:07):
also wow.
Ok, people do believe in it andI have to keep going.
So it's like this great kind ofweird place to be at, I'm sure.
But you know, I think whenpeople, really when a story or a
person or whatever it may be,connects, people, you know, just
want to get behind it and helpkeep it moving.
(41:27):
You know, just like I'm surewe'd both give money for Bravo
to keep going.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Exactly, I mean, I pay for Peacock every month.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Oh, yes, I do.
You know, I want those extradeleted scenes and and unedited
reunions.
Thank you very much.
So, kind of on a lighter note,I guess I you recently put out
some merch that kind of came outas like kind of a haha out of
some stuff that happened in thepodcast where you have this new
(41:57):
thing.
It's okay, we can guess Snitch,as Daddy, which is a name your
father, was called by someone.
So that's kind of like alighter note of why did you
decide to kind of take thatlittle piece of something and
turn it into something else?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, one of my favorite things I've ever heard
in my life.
So, yes, in June of 2023, Ireceived a message on Facebook
from a cousin of mine who saidthat my dad deserved to die
because he was a snitch assdaddy.
And I think she I mean,obviously she meant to hurt my
(42:38):
feelings, but there was justsomething about the grammar of
this message and the fact thatshe called my dad a snitch-ass
daddy while criticizing me.
That just made me laugh for 25minutes, and so I was like, oh,
I love that so much and I joke,I'm a bit of an eeyore.
I'm always like I'm sad, I'mdepressed, like I'd rather sit
(43:00):
at home with a blanket over myhead and watch TV than go out
with my friend, and so the factthat snitch ass daddy spells sad
was like the icing on top ofthe cake.
So I put sad on the front ofthe shirt and I put snitch ass
(43:21):
daddy on the back and I postedit.
And a friend of mine who's aGrammy winning producer was like
, oh my God, can I put snitchass daddy in a song?
And I was like, of course, it'sso funny.
I love it.
Yes, please do.
And then I messaged him a fewdays later and I was like
actually I want a song calledSnitch Ass Daddy.
And he was like whenever youwant.
(43:42):
So we went into the studiotogether months later and we
took the message that my cousinwrote me and we wrote a parody
song called Snitch Ass Daddy andwe just almost verbatim, line
by line.
I mean she said all kinds ofstuff, all very funny.
Like one of the things she saidwhich I think is ironic and we
just sort of touched on this, isthat I'm making all this money
(44:04):
on my podcast and I'm just outhere getting rich on this story.
So of course in the song it'sme talking about how rich I am
because of my snitch ass daddyand it's just so funny.
And we recorded this song andhe was so generous and did it
for free and I mean he's liketop notch.
So even just the time spent isso valuable and I'm so
(44:25):
appreciative to him for takingthe time to do this with me,
especially because I'm not likea legit artist.
This is obviously like a veryparody song.
You know he works with legitpeople and was like yeah, I'll
do this, you know, for you.
And then I have some friendswho got together and were like
hey, we make music videos andwe'd love to do a music video
for the song.
And so now we're doing a musicvideo for the song, oh my God.
(44:48):
And yes, I'm very excited.
So that comes out on June 7th.
Yes, it's become this thingbecause of this message, which I
just think is so incredible.
This thing because of thismessage which I just think is so
incredible, and I hope peopleare inspired by the fact that
she obviously meant for this toreally hurt me.
And now it's my favorite thingI've ever done.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
That's amazing.
I love when things we startturn into these whole other
things that are just like.
This is so fun and amazing andjust we get to create more
things with it.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, and that really goes back to like my roots.
I never was interested on a fanperspective of true crime,
never wanted to be like in itlike I am now.
I was always interested in likecomedy.
I used to do parody musicvideos when I was in high school
so this was always likesomething I just like was always
a fan of.
(45:37):
So to be able to marry the twothings- was like such a unique
and exciting opportunity for meto do something that was like a
creative outlet Right and sortof really back to my like
comedic roots, but also it tiein as like a marketing tool for
the podcast it was like a veryexciting opportunity.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
It's a fun way for you to kind of create joy for
yourself as a part of it in anew way, but then you also know
that once it's out there thatit'll help bring people to the
podcast.
So it's like a win in that way.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, and to draw in a new audience of people I would
never be able to reachotherwise is.
I'm very excited.
I'm hoping to collab withsomeone to make up a TikTok
dance to it and really lean in.
So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Oh, my gosh, Sounds so much fun.
Well, I know I can't see myclock.
We're almost up with the timewe had scheduled and you have
other things to do.
Make a podcast yourself, sokind of like after hearing your
story and all of this if someonesays, you know, she's so
inspiring, I'd love to do this,something like it.
(46:43):
Someone said, yeah, I want tostart a podcast.
What advice would you give tothat woman that wants to use it
as a way to share her story?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, I think just start.
It's so cheesy, but I learned alot I mean even just about it
from doing it like episode fiveis better than one and episode
12 is better than five, and youwon't ever really have all of
the knowledge anyways, and therewill always be especially if
(47:14):
you're starting out there willalways be like a network or a
company that's like doing itbetter than you, to be honest.
And so if you let that be ahindrance of, well, I'm not
ready yet, or I don't have theright gear, or I don't have
whatever.
I didn't have this mic when Idid my Big Brother podcast, I,
you know you evolve and youchange and things elevate as you
go, but the learning of it islike almost just as valuable as
(47:37):
like the thing itself.
And I think just getting startedand like sitting down and like
deciding what you want to do,what you want to say, you know
the storytelling is much moreimportant than the quality and
the gear and all of that otherstuff.
If you have a really good storyand you put it out and it's not
the best quality, but the storyis really solid and you're
(47:59):
really good at telling it andyou tell it with like conviction
and it's something that means alot to you.
I think that really comesthrough.
And then there will be someonewho comes in a network or
someone else that's, hey, thisstory is great and we can help
you with all the other stuff.
So I think, yeah, and youwouldn't know that if you didn't
just start.
I mean, I went through thatwhere I was really upset that I
(48:20):
had to independently release mypodcast because I had pitched it
around and I had tried to getyou know a bigger network
involved and was really excitedto you know, enter in at number
one on the charts to be able tosee the growth and I, at one
(48:42):
point we were 34 on the truecrime charts and 60 something on
in all categories.
It's the only time we've everhit that.
But to know that I did that onmy own right it's like the best
feeling and I wouldn't have everdone that if I had sat back and
just gone.
Oh, I'm just not ready to dothis and I don't think we hit
that until like episode seven oreight.
I definitely think juststarting is it's the hardest
part of it, but it's the youknow.
(49:03):
Then you get going right.
Once you have episode one out,it's so much easier to do
episode two and three and fourand five and you get better and
better.
And I think that's figuring outsort of the format of how you
want to do it.
You know if it's episodic or ifit's, every episode is a
different what you're doing.
Every episode sort of standsalone.
And then just okay, now I'mgonna go make the thing and give
(49:24):
yourself, I think, deadlines isreally important, because
obviously it's easier said thandone to just be like just record
today, right, um, but if youhave to write it or you have to
schedule guests, you have to dosomething.
I always find it really helpfulto be like okay, by you know
October 1st, I have to do it andI have to have it out, and I
have to have it ready and givingyourself a really realistic.
(49:46):
Obviously it won't be donetomorrow.
But if it's like a guestsituation, you know, okay, in
four weeks I will have scheduledfive guests and then I will
start, and then I will put themout and like really giving
yourself like I have to do thisby this point and treating it
like a job and you just got todo it and no excuses, and just
put it out and start, and thenit'll all get better.
(50:07):
And I guess also a second thingis don't save your good stuff
for when you're better.
So, if you're worried about oh,I'm new and I don't know what
I'm doing.
I need to work out all thekinks.
What's your big brother podcast?
Start something and then learnand evolve, and I've always
heard that in film and TV it'slike you start with your C-list
(50:29):
idea and then you can work onthe other ones once you have
more knowledge and experienceand a fan base and all of those
things.
Just start and build somethingand yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
No, I always say just start messy.
Just start and then you'llfigure it out as you go.
I mean, there's a lot of thingsyou can do to help yourself in
the beginning, but just start.
You got to test it out and seeif you even like it and if you
even enjoy it.
Because you got to enjoy it.
There has to be some level ofenjoyment or, like you said,
(51:03):
it's something that you like totalk about or you have a passion
for.
If you love to talk about acertain tv show, do that just to
test it and see how things go.
Because 100%.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
I did not watch a single video on podcasting or do
a single course when I started.
I still, to this day, havenever done that.
I learned everything.
That's preferred method.
I just like to learn stuff fromdoing it and it's worked out
pretty well for me so far.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
And then when you get to the point where you need to
learn some aspect, there's somany ways you can.
I mean university, and whatI've learned, too, being at this
point in my journey, is now I'mgoing to in-person events
podcast movement last month andpodfest Then you get to connect
more with people, but then youget to learn and when you find
your community, people are goingto help you without you having
to pay for it.
(51:46):
You're going to exchange things.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
You're like I'll do this for you if you do this for
me and do episode swaps and allthat great stuff 100%, and there
are so many resources like thatout there and, yeah, you
wouldn't have access to thatunless you had a podcast, so you
have to start to even begin toenter into those spaces and so,
yeah, starting is like the mostimportant, key piece of it.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
And once you have that first episode out, you're a
podcaster Exactly Well.
Madison, thank you so much.
I've been so excited about thisbecause I've been listening to
your podcast and following yourstory and I you know I don't
know anybody else personally inthe true crime world, so when I
was able to connect with you, tohave you on, I think it's so
(52:31):
important to show all thedifferent ways that we can
podcast and share our story.
So I appreciate your time andyour openness and sharing your
experience with all of us, and Iwill put in the show notes all
of the links to follow Madisonon social media, to follow Ice
Cold Case, to listen, as well asto check out all the things
(52:54):
she's doing to help support thepodcast.
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Thank you so much for having me.
This was absolutely lovely.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Thank you so much.
Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited.
Yes, I hope you enjoyed that asmuch as I did Way back when I
recorded it getting to meetMadison virtually and really get
into her story and her podcastand everything she is doing with
(53:24):
Ice Cold Case, as well as newthings, and I just really hope
you enjoyed it.
I love kind of coming back tothis a year or more later,
finally getting to put it out,because her story, no matter
what it comes out, it's stillvery inspiring and I know there
are podcasters that arequestioning whether they should
(53:46):
start or do anything or anyonecares and so just know, whatever
is that thing, that thing youwant to talk about, that thing
you're passionate about, thatstory you want to tell or maybe
find out more about, like herwith the True Crime Podcast.
Just know, this is your answerfrom the universe saying do it.
Somebody needs to hear yourstory.
(54:09):
I am so happy to be back on thepodcast and to be talking to you
, to be sharing my story, to besharing these amazing interviews
I have done, but also to besharing what I've learned and
hopefully you can learn from meand maybe not make some of the
same mistakes I've made.
I'm very grateful that you arehere with me and that you're
(54:29):
going to be here with me as Irelaunch and keep sharing my
story and many others.
So, wherever you are listeningto this, please make sure you
hit follow or subscribe.
Whether you're on Apple orSpotify or iHeart or you're on
my YouTube channel, pleasesubscribe, please share, please
(54:50):
help me get these amazing femalevoices and their stories out
into the world, and I cannotwait to see you back on the next
new episode Podcast your story,because your story matters and
your story needs to be told.
Hi and welcome to a brand new episode of Podcast
your Story.
I am your host, dr Julie MortyPearson, and I am so excited to
be back.
I'm very excited to start backwith a big one, a big one for me
.
This is someone who I found herpodcast.
(00:27):
I listened, I loved it, I dovein, I kept listening.
I started following her onsocial, I was engaging with her
and one day I said I'm justgoing to ask her to be on my
podcast.
So on Instagram, I believe, IDM'd Madison.
I said hey, hey, I love yourpodcast, I love what you're
(00:47):
doing, I would love to have youcome on my podcast.
And she said yes, this is thepower of podcasting, you know.
Now I will say, since I'verecorded this, madison has blown
up even more and I willdefinitely be asking if she can
come back for a follow-up foryou guys because, wow, she has
made some incredibleaccomplishments, not only with
(01:10):
her podcast but other podcastswhich maybe I'll mention later
on.
But this episode is all aboutMadison McGee and her podcast,
ice Cold Case.
Now, I will admit, I love truecrime.
I've always been a fan of truecrime documentaries, always been
a fan of TV shows and moviesbased on true crime like things
(01:34):
solving murders.
Even as a kid I loved Murder.
She Wrote.
I don't know it's always beenwho I am.
So Madison's was one of thefirst true crime podcasts I
listened to.
It wasn't a genre I really doveinto because I kind of went
more to podcasting for funlight-hearted, you know, pop
culture stuff or to learn aboutpodcasting, and so when I heard
(01:57):
about hers and listened I wasjust brought in the production,
the way she tells the story.
But most importantly, what itwas about for me was the
connection of why she decided todo a podcast.
Ice Cold Case is about theunsolved murder of her father,
something she did not learnuntil her 20s.
(02:18):
That even was a murder.
She had always thought herfather had died of a heart
attack.
So not only was that acompletely new piece of
information for her, being inthe production world, in the
documentary world, she decidedto use her skills and knowledge
to try to solve her father'smurder.
(02:38):
So Ice Cold Case is Madison'saccount of learning about her
father's murder, learning aboutthe details and now
investigating and trying tosolve it herself.
It is really an emotionalrollercoaster as a listener, I
can only imagine for her.
But this episode that I recordedagain a while back was before
(03:02):
her most recent season was putout, but we really talked about
her why.
Why did she choose podcasting?
You know she's made documentaryfilms, she's been in the
business, as they say but shechose a podcast, and so I really
want you to hear her why whyshe decided to do something
about this, a big part of herlife, and why she chose
(03:26):
podcasting.
I really appreciate Madison'swillingness to be open and
honest and share this part ofher journey with me and with you
.
I really think you're going tolove this episode.
I know you're going to learnsomething.
I know you're going to beinspired and you're going to be
like dang, she is doing it andagain, I will ask her to come
(03:46):
back.
So, with no further ado, a brandnew episode of Podcast your
Story with my guest, madisonMcGee.
Hello, my friend, welcome backto the Podcast your Story Now
(04:08):
podcast.
I am super excited.
I am a true crime fan.
I love true crime podcasts,documentaries and this is
someone I've been following fora while.
I got hooked on her podcastlast year and I'm very happy to
welcome Madison McGee to thepodcast.
Hi, madison, thank you forbeing here.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
So excited to talk all things true crime, but first
I'm going to tell my listenersa little bit about you.
So Madison is a Charleston,west Virginia native, currently
living in Los Angeles.
She is a television and filmproducer who has been part of
top-rated productions acrossmultiple genres.
Currently, Madison is makingwaves with her groundbreaking
(04:54):
podcast Ice Cold Case thatdelves into the cold case of her
father's murder, which remainsunsolved after 21 years.
This podcast has drawninternational attention, earning
her the title of Webby Awardshonoree in 2024.
I saw that.
Congratulations.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Thank you, that's exciting that was crazy, like
the most excited I think I'veever been for anything in my
life.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I get it.
I was nominated for an awardfrom a very small new award
ceremony last year and it's justOK, people get it.
People get why I'm talking.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It's that validation, that like people care, and I
think that's like when you startthis which I'm sure we'll get
into and it feels like there'ssort of you're just like sort of
doing this and talking into thevoid or into a microphone or
whatever, and then you're likeoh, someone on some panel said I
(05:57):
like this, and that's reallycool.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's amazing, it's a big honor.
It's amazing, it's a big honor,and I'm so glad for you, not
only because you deserve it, butbecause that just gets you more
recognition and more peoplewill start listening, and that's
what we all want, right?
Totally.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Totally Thank you.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
So Madison and I were bonding before we hit record.
First of all, you can see ifyou're watching the video.
You can see her cat in thebackground.
We are both proud cat moms andwe love our cat, as you can see
behind me as well.
We're also, you know, fans ofthe Bravo world, which I love
having someone to chat aboutthat.
(06:36):
But we want to talk about youand kind of your stories.
You work in the world of TV andfilm.
Had you ever done anything inpodcasting before this, or what
made you decide to go into thatarea?
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So this is a funny little story.
I hadn't ever thought aboutpodcasting before, but when I
sort of decided that this wasthe route I wanted to go in to
do my story was a podcast,because I had gone back and
(07:10):
forth about do I do a doc, do Ido a podcast?
Like what's the right sort ofmedium for this?
When I had sort of thought,okay, podcast might be the way
to go, I realized I didn't knowanything about podcasting
because I have only donetelevision and film.
I was like I have to learn howto podcast because I don't know
how.
And just the logistics ofuploading, how long does it take
(07:30):
, populating, sharing, I meanit's like a very weird.
There's different platforms toupload a podcast to, and which
one's better and how does it allwork and whatever.
And I was like, okay, I need topractice with something that
feels inconsequential, what do Inot really care about, that I
can start a podcast about topractice, right, and it was
(07:52):
summer of 2021.
And I was like, oh, big Brotheris about to come on, I'll just
do a recap podcast about BigBrother for the summer and I'll
do every Friday.
I'll, you know, teach myselfhow to like, stick to a schedule
, do an episode recap recordwith a mic and, you know, do all
(08:14):
the things.
So I did this little BigBrother podcast and I really was
not planning on it becominganything.
I was just like, I'm just good,I just want to practice.
Well, of course I get reallycompetitive with myself and I
was like, oh, I need people tolisten to this podcast.
So I started doing interviewswith people who used to be on
(08:34):
the show.
So I start interviewing peoplewho were on Big Brother and then
they, like, would become myfriends.
And then the season that I wascovering ended and I wanted to
interview all the people whowere on it.
And now one of my closestfriends was someone who was on
that season of Big Brother.
And so then I sort of gotintegrated into this very weird
(08:55):
niche reality TV world in LAwhich we talked about.
How I know so many randompeople in that space outside of
being a producer on otherunscripted stuff?
And it was all because of thisvery silly little podcast that I
had and I don't do it anymore.
Obviously I was really just apractice.
There was like no intention ofit becoming a thing, but it did
(09:15):
gain a little bit of popularity.
I was talking with Sharon Tharp.
Shout out to Sharon Tharp.
She used to be the Us Weeklyreporter who covered reality TV.
We were at a party in Novemberand I saw her and I was like, oh
my God, it's Sharon Tharpe,that's so cool.
So I said, hello, introducemyself.
And she knew my podcast.
And that was kind of crazybecause I was like, oh, I want
(09:37):
her to know about, like Ice ColdCase, I want to talk to her
about my true crime podcast.
Maybe she could introduce me tosomeone at Us Weekly who could
write about it.
But she was like, oh yeah, donPrime podcast.
Maybe she could introduce me tosomeone at Us Weekly who could
write about it.
But she was like, oh yeah,don't care about that, I know
your Big Brother podcast.
And so that was kind of crazy.
But yeah, that's how I.
It's a very weird, but that'show I got into it.
That's how I practiced, by justdoing something that I knew.
(09:57):
I didn't want to waste my storyon learning the kinks of
podcasting and oh, I had a fauxpas when I uploaded today and
now I have to redo it.
I don't want to deal all ofthat with something so important
.
So I just practiced with that.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
That's so funny, I love that, and you know it's so
funny.
I mean totally different.
But in some way that's kind ofhow I started.
So when I started my petpodcast, I was like I have no
idea what I'm doing.
You know, I've learned somebasics, I took some courses, but
I didn't edit, I didn't doanything, I just started and
people started asking to be onit.
(10:32):
I'm like, ok, and now it'sturned into this thing where
it's a passion project.
I want to advocate for animalrescue and adoption and people
are listening and I don't evenhave to promote that much,
people just are subscribed andkeep listening and it's oh OK,
people want to talk about thisand want to hear it.
(10:52):
And now it's taught me all thethings to make this new one
better.
So that's what I love aboutpodcasting you can kind of dip
your toe in and see if you likeit and maybe even guess on other
people.
That's what I always tellpeople to do.
If you're not sure, go be onsomeone else's and see if you'll
even like it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Totally.
Yeah, it is weird.
You'd think, even if you liketalking, oh, you'll love
podcasting.
But it is very weird.
I mean, even like us right now,like you're not here, right,
very weird.
Podcasting is very weird.
Like, you feel like almost likeyou're talking to yourself and
it's just.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, it's a really strange yes Thing especially for
you because you do you, youknow basically you do it solo.
But before we get to that, sothe reason you kind of wanted to
test out because the story youwanted to tell was really
important to you, obviously, socan you tell the listeners a
little bit about what that storyis and why you decided to start
(11:39):
the podcast for it?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
yeah, my podcast is a true crime podcast.
I am investigating my dad'scold case murder from 2002, just
an unsolved case.
It never really went throughlike a trial.
It wasn't like someone wasacquitted and they can't find
the right person.
They just haven't found anyone.
It's a very weird sort of setof circumstances and so I
(12:05):
started this podcast as sort ofan investigative tool.
It's weird.
It started as like an advocacytool to sort of get the word out
about the case, to put pressureon the police department, and
has very quickly turned into aninvestigative tool of like tips
are coming in, of like tips arecoming in, information is
(12:29):
surfacing and so a lot of myleads are coming now through the
podcast, which is reallyinteresting and, yeah, it's my
sort of perspective of thatjourney, but also the case
itself and the logistics of thecase, the facts, the case files,
witness testimony etc.
Sort of all wrapped into this.
I would maybe say it's like adocumentary.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
But in a podcast.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, and so it's kind of turned you into an
investigative journalist in away, but also a researcher,
because you're having, you'regetting information, but then
you've got to dig more.
A researcher because you'rehaving, you're getting
information, but then you've gotto dig more and you know true
crime is such a specific kind ofset of skills I would imagine I
would have no word, any ideawhere to start to even get
(13:13):
information from the police, letalone to do all the things
you've done.
So what has surprised you mostabout the process of where you
started and what you thought itwould be and kind of where
you're at now?
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Oh man, I mean, I thought it was going to be like
I don't even know a lot easier.
I really and like naively,really did believe that like you
could call up any policedepartment in any town in USA
and go, hey, I'm curious aboutthe disappearance of so, and
(13:47):
they just mail you a box ofstuff.
That is so not how it works.
And so when I called theBelmont County Sheriff's
Department to get access to thecase files which I'm looking at
right here, this is my dad'smurder file.
This is what's crazy.
I'll show you.
This is it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That's it.
Yeah, oh my gosh.
Yeah, like you said, you havethis idea of like boxes are
going to be, like laid down foryou, with all this stuff, and
it's just like a pile of papers.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
This is literally it, and yeah, so getting this was
insanely difficult.
It took about nine and a halfmonths for me to get access
after the first initial attempt,and then, yeah, I expected
there to be more in there.
I expected you know even thecontents of this file to be more
in depth.
(14:40):
Give me more explanations.
Everything in there is like soconfusing and doesn't make any
sense, and so I just the wholeprocess as far as, like, the
information gathering, wasreally surprising, because I
just didn't know what to expect.
I'm also not a journalist, so Ihave no idea how to like put
all of this together.
Storytelling is like an insanelydifficult art.
(15:04):
I'm friends with a lot ofbrilliant storyteller, comedians
, writers, filmmakers, and Ireally underestimated how
difficult it is to tell a storyfrom beginning to end, and then,
even within that, every episodehas to have a beginning, middle
and end and, you know, add tothe arc of the actual story.
And how do you do that when youhave no idea where the story is
(15:25):
going, because this is still anunsolved case.
It's been just challenge afterchallenge to put this all
together on top of you know,actually reading through all of
this, investigating, askingmyself questions when do I go
from here?
It's been so much and it'sfunny, I love.
Thank you for saying that I ama journalist and an investigator
.
I love to hear that because Ido not feel that way and I, oh
(15:48):
yes, I am.
But I'm also.
You know, I write the episodes,I record them in my apartment,
I edit them.
I don't mix and master.
I'm very fortunate to have afriend who does that for me but
right when you know, we get offhere, I have to string out an
episode, and now we're doingvideo versions, which is like a
(16:09):
whole nother nightmare.
So I have to piece all thattogether.
So I'm like an editor as welland, you know, an executive
producer, because then I have tooversee everything.
When I send it off to be colorgraded, I have to oversee that.
And there's just so muchinvolved in all of this that I
really was like, when you lookat it from far away, you're like
(16:30):
you read what 45 pages of acase file and you write a little
podcast and you record it andthen you're done and that is so,
not it?
That's just the beginning ofall the things.
And then the promoting of it islike is so, not it?
That's just the beginning ofyou know all the things.
And then the promoting of it islike a whole nother.
Yeah, I spend more money andtime promoting my show than I do
(16:51):
on anything else, and all theother stuff takes up a lot of
time, right?
So the fact that the marketingtakes up double triple, that is
like my nightmare.
It's crazy.
So yeah's a lot.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Yeah, you know, I think it's like the great thing
and not so great thing aboutpodcasting is people see it.
Oh, that's easy and in a way,it is to get started and to get
up and going.
But if you really want to do itwell and you want it to be
quality story content as well assound and video and all those,
it's a lot.
There's a lot of moving piecesand a lot of us.
(17:29):
You do most of it or all of ityourself and you know.
And then there's the whole,like you said, the marketing
piece.
Okay, I've created it.
Now how do I get people tolisten to it?
That's just a whole nother job.
Yeah, but the great thing aboutpodcasting is it can evolve,
which I think yours kind of has,as you're been telling the
story and, like you said, youstart to get more information.
(17:50):
I actually just listened toyour most recent episode today
and the last two episodes havebeen really interesting because
it's been a little differentthan what you had done prior,
because you were actuallyspeaking to someone who has been
said to possibly be like theprime suspect in this case, and
I could definitely hear adifference in the way your voice
(18:13):
is like when you were talkingto him, versus when you're like
narrating it more.
So how has that kind of changeand you know you went back to
Belmont and all of that processkind of been for you to navigate
through?
Speaker 2 (18:28):
oh my god, it's like the most emotional thing ever.
I feel like, yeah, my podcastvoice is very different than my
like regular voice.
I also am like a very I don'teven know how to explain it you
know those people who like smileand laugh when they're like
uncomfortable.
That's what I do, and I feellike when I was like
re-listening before we postedthe episode, I was like, oh my
(18:50):
god, I'm like laughing when I'mtalking to this guy.
Is that weird?
Do I sound like a serial killer?
And no, I think so, like when Ilisten to it you could.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
it's like you're trying to ease your own nerves
and speaking to this personwhile not acting like I don't
know what to think about whathe's telling me.
You learn things you had neverheard before, and so I'm
imagining your brain was justgoing like a million miles a
second.
Oh, totally.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's just the most emotional process ever.
Ever, I mean, I don't know ofanything I've done up to this
point in my 28, almost 29 yearsof life that has been more
emotionally taxing than this,and that moment was probably the
peak of you know, the crazinessof this journey is, you know,
(19:40):
it all culminated into talkingto this person and that was just
wild.
And also in a way where you'relike, how do I say this?
I feel like when everything youthink is true sort of starts to
unravel in front of you, it'sfrustrating and it's just such a
(20:04):
weird feeling.
And I've had that feelingbefore because, you know, I
thought my dad died of a heartattack and then I found out he
was murdered.
So that truth was sort ofunraveled in front of me and
then it felt like, oh, and nowhere I am again.
I believe this truth, and nowthat is also unraveling and it's
very bizarre and this processjust in general is insane and I
(20:27):
wouldn't recommend to anyone.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Well, I'm sure there's, because there's two
pieces.
It's like you creating this art, this content, this story on
this side and you're proud of itand you're trying to get it out
On this side.
It's you, it's your story, it'syour life, it's your family.
That's what I loved about, Iwould say, the first season is
the way you weaved into thestory of what happened to your
(20:50):
dad, with your experience ofdifferent family members and
what you knew when you found outand things like that.
So I'm sure it's a lot for youto take on because of the
emotional aspect of it.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, it really is.
It's yeah, because I'm tryingto do the job of a journalist,
which is to remain as objectiveas possible, right, but this is
like a very deeply personalstory and so to try to, you know
, showcase that side of it whilealso sticking to the facts,
(21:25):
right, the lines just overlap somuch.
It's very confusing and it'sdifficult to write.
And I talk a lot about we haveto rewrite episodes a lot,
because I'll do a first draftand then it's oh, this is too.
You've really this is not yourdiary, madison, and so then we
have to rewrite it and it's verydifficult to ride that line.
And you know, I did that onpurpose.
(21:47):
I set the tone of the show tobe that.
It could have been, you know,more of a journal, but it's just
, that's just not what I wantedit to be or what I envisioned.
And you know, we want to keepthe tone the same throughout,
even as things sort of evolveand shift and adjust.
And yeah, it's been a veryinteresting process point about
(22:18):
how to podcast, but also aboutmyself and how I handle these
situations and sort of how toprocess, you know, all of this
very crazy stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, I'm sure there are moments where you kind of
have to give yourself grace andgive yourself time.
And it's OK if you don't getthis done right now, because
you're processing somethingthat's like impacting your life
and you're like trying to makesense of it too.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Yeah, totally, and thank God for Bravo.
I mean shout it out.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Thank God for.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Bravo.
Thank God for Bravo.
Like I, you know, there aredays where I remember I took
about I don't know, maybe twoweeks I had a launch party for
part two of the podcast and Ihandmade 250 friendship
bracelets for everyone whoattended the party.
(23:02):
And I remember going why did Ido this to myself after I had
made 20 bracelets?
But it ended up becoming such aweird cathartic.
Oh, I'm going to take a breakfrom all of this stuff.
I just make bracelets and Istarted playing Real Housewives
of Salt Lake City when I startedmaking the bracelets and by the
time I finished all 250bracelets, I had watched all
(23:25):
four seasons of Real Housewivesof Salt Lake City in two weeks.
And that is like mental illnessbehavior and I should be locked
up.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
But, come on, you had to get to the point where you
got to receipts through time.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
I had to get to the end and it is such a like I had
to just be like.
If you need to watch you know aridiculous amount of Real
Housewives of Salt Lake City,ridiculous amount of Real
Housewives of Salt Lake Citythen that's what you need to do
today and that's fine.
And you know, I do beat myselfup about it a little bit because
(24:02):
I should be doing you know ahundred other things, but
sometimes we all need time andspace to just, yeah, you just
have to do that and yeah, I gavemyself two weeks to watch.
I mean that's, there are like 25episodes this season.
I watched 100 episodes of RealHousewives in two weeks.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
It's sick, but you know you know you got to do what
you got to do.
It's funny because you know I'mmuch older than you.
However, you want to say I'm 46.
You know I have a lot ofeducation, I'm used to working.
You know fancy jobs and Bravohas always been my go-to it's
(24:41):
you know.
My psychology education kicksin.
I just got to understand whythese people are acting like
this.
This is crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
And I think that's why the true crime fans overlap
a lot with Bravo reality TV etc.
Because it's like the samepeople that are like well.
Why are people killing?
People are also like well.
Why is this woman, you know,going on television and drinking
eight bottles of wine beforeshe films?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Right, okay, yes, it's that whole like how would
you know you're yourself, you'renot being someone else?
You're actually saying this isyou, and.
But I love it because it's just, it's entertaining, it keeps
you going.
And then we have this communityonline.
You know all the well nowpodcasts.
A lot of them started out associal media people who would do
all the updates and it's justkind of like a fun little
(25:27):
community to be a part of andreact with and I couldn't give
up Bravo ever.
I know I love it, I love it.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I'm grateful.
I was a late adapter, but I'mvery grateful that I got.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Yeah, you know it was back in grad school, I think is
probably when I got into it,and it was just that.
You know I didn't want to readanymore or write or do any of
that.
I needed to just let my head doit.
And it's still because it'sentertaining.
Your mind keeps going and youfeel like, ok, I'm not just
sitting doing nothing at leastTotally, although some people
(26:03):
don't get it, but that's OK.
One of the things I love aboutIce Cold Case is and I'm sure
there are other two crimepodcasts that do this but yours
just felt special in that way,the way you tell the story and
you have the music and the soundeffects and the upbeats and the
you know I feel like thatreally carries the storyline.
(26:24):
Was that important to you ordid that just kind of come
naturally as you were creatingit?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Yeah, everything in this show is heavily considered
and thought out and thoughtthrough, from the music to you
know the timing of breaks inbetween breaths and like
everything is.
I go over and over and overeverything so many times.
And, yeah, that it's.
(26:50):
It is such an important pieceof this and I have this
knowledge just from film andtelevision.
A film you should be able tolisten to.
A film with no music and stillhave the same emotions that you
would if the music was added.
It should elevate, but itshould never sort of compensate
for the writing or anything likethat.
(27:11):
And that's like an old adagefrom the film and TV world and
people will criticize movies who, you know, rely too heavily on
music to build up that feeling.
And so I was really cognizantabout the music really adding
benefit to whatever it was, butalso making sure that the words
(27:36):
spoke for themselves.
And, yeah, it's a reallyimportant piece to me.
And the music, the originalmusic we use, is composed by a
wonderful friend of mine, mattBettinson.
He's fantastic and the rest wejust get royalty free.
But even then I'm like I mean Ilisten to.
Probably it's actually my leastfavorite part of doing this.
It takes the longest for mebecause I'm nitpicky about the
(27:58):
music.
I will listen to 400 songs forone section before I'm like,
okay, that's the song that goesinto the section because it's
all so important to me.
And if I can't find one, thenI'm like the no music, then we
just won't have any yeah, it'sdefinitely a rabbit hole you can
go down.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I know when I, you know I only have music for like
my intro and rabbit hole you cango down.
I know when I you know I onlyhave music for like my intro and
outro, but you can go down.
Oh no, I don't like that, or no, it's so long, oh yeah.
And I think that's a hard thingabout podcasting in general If
you script it, you can pick itapart.
When you record the audio, likesometimes I just have to tell
(28:34):
myself stop, I don't need toworry about every gap, every
every.
You know there has to be somenatural talking, that's how we
talk.
But you can really like go hardand then spend time on stuff
that maybe isn't as important.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
But sometimes it's hard to back yourself off that.
Yeah, I spend a lot of time insort of every phase of the show.
But yeah, I definitely we're ina unique position because the
podcast comes out every otherweek and, like we recorded on
Monday for the one that comesout in two weeks, it's a little
(29:14):
stressful because we're likealways last minute I mean, we
finished today's episodeyesterday but it's nice because
it doesn't allow me too muchtime to pour over all these
details like 100 times.
If we had recorded theseepisodes five months ago, they
would all have been re -recordedfive times because I would have
too much time to be like, oh, Idon't like this, oh, we need to
redo this, oh, we can't do this.
(29:35):
So it's actually nice that wedo it in a bit of a pinch.
We could probably give myselfan extra week.
Maybe the two weeks is a bit ofa tight turnaround, but it's
nice that we do it sort ofwithin the month because it
doesn't allow for too much ofthat oh, let's change this.
Or oh, hearing it back afterit's fully done and going, oh,
let's just redo it, we don'thave time for that, so we don't
do that.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Yeah, there's a good thing about setting a schedule
and sticking to it for a lot ofreasons, because then you just
have to get it out.
I'm trying to do that myself.
Consistency has always been mybiggest issue as a podcaster.
I think because of a lot ofthese reasons, you don't want to
just leave it that way orprocrastinate, which I have
always done.
Yeah, those are the hard partsof podcasting, so I'm sure
(30:18):
having a strict schedule kind ofhelps you kind of push yourself
along a little bit.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
It sounds yes definitely yeah, the show has to
come out when it's supposed tocome out.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Right.
So in terms of you know you'rein the second season now you,
like you said earlier, you'regetting a lot of tips, so that's
kind of directing some of whatyou're in the second season now
you, like you said earlier,you're getting a lot of tips, so
that's kind of directing someof what you're doing and of your
research.
Where do you feel like the showis going for you now and where
what are you hoping to do withit at this point?
Speaker 2 (30:50):
it's a good question.
Hopefully I solved the caseright, right, yes, ultimately
yes.
(31:18):
I think that it's yeah, I mean,I think similar of the people
who were around so that if Irefer to them later, you're
familiar with them and theirstory and their role sort of in
my dad's life.
And I end with a theory that Ihave.
And because I did that, peoplecame out of the woodwork and
(31:39):
said either no, that's not true,or yep, that's exactly what
happened.
And so now I'm sort of playingwith doing these installments of
episodes to end with, okay, andhere's a new theory based on
all of that.
And now here's you know, I'lltake six months off or whatever
(32:03):
and here's your opportunity tocall me up and say actually
that's not true, or okay, you'rea lot closer than you were
before, and just sort of keepdoing that until I get to a
point where it's like, and nowhere is exactly what happened.
Or now I've gotten this muchinfo I've heard from this person
or whatever, and now I'm, youknow, much more in tune with the
(32:28):
actual series of events thathappened that day.
So that's sort of my plan asfar as how to use this show to
solve the case and hopefully itworks.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, because definitely you're in this unique
situation where it's like thestory now is kind of evolving as
you tell it and changing andit's kind of directing you in a
way of where you're going withit.
But I know there's some bigthings you're trying to get to
and recently you kind of put outthat you have a GoFundMe set up
for the podcast.
(33:05):
What are you trying to do withthat?
Where is that going to help youto get to with the case and the
story and all of that?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's crazy how expensive life is.
I mean we are living in likethe weirdest.
I'm not going to get on thesoapbox about politics and the
economy and whatever, but I amseeing people who were like
insanely well off in my opinionlike filing bankruptcy and
(33:35):
companies that I've looked up to.
The production company thatmade Spotlight and Roma just
went under.
Yesterday they announcedthey're closing.
It's like we are living in avery strange, like borderline
Great Depression type of timewhere, like, things are just
crazy and as my show gets bigger, it becomes more complicated,
(34:00):
more complicated.
I mean even just explaining toyou the amount of time it takes
to do all of these aspects of myshow and I'm doing them.
It's basically a full-time jobfor free, so I have bills that I
have to pay and rent and peoplewho are working on the show,
with a guy who mixes the show,the guy who makes the music all
(34:22):
work for free.
No one's getting paid to dothis because we're not making
any money, but we all have tosurvive.
And it got to a point where Iwas like we're now, after today,
12 episodes into this show andI can't keep asking people to
cut me for like, for how long,100 episodes.
That's crazy, and so I reallywant to be able to start like
(34:45):
building even a small budget perepisode to be able to pay
people the guy who does thevideo editing, the guy who does
the mixing, like all of thisstuff, even if it's not a lot, I
want to be able to startcompensating people because this
is a job, and I think there'sthis weird connotation that,
(35:06):
like, well, if you're doing apassion project, that's what it
is, you don't need to get paidfor it and it's okay, right, but
you could still like your joband get paid for it.
That's a crazy thing to say.
So I decided I'm very I had beenadvised at the very beginning
of this journey to crowdfund andI was adamant that I would
(35:27):
never in a million years, ever,ever, ask anyone for money.
It just was something that Ifelt really weird about.
I was not comfortable doing itat all.
At the time.
I was working full time.
I mean, I'm a freelancer, but Iwas working all the time Like I
wouldn't have even known I wasa freelancer.
I was like hopping from job tojob.
So I was like I'm cool, I don'tneed to make money off this
(35:51):
because I'm doing other stuff.
Yes, I'm working late at night,I'm doing all this other you
know side hustle stuff, but it'sfine because I'm working.
So like my bills are gettingpaid.
It's no big deal.
And when my last television showwrapped on December 23rd, I had
this weird feeling that Iwasn't going to work for a while
and I have not gotten a callfor a TV show since, and it's
(36:16):
almost the end of April, so Ihaven't worked in four months.
And it was like to a pointwhere I was like, if I can't
survive off of this show, then Ihave to stop doing this show
and I need to go, like baggroceries at Trader Joe's or
something.
And that's just the reality ofit and I'm not above any job,
(36:37):
like I would do anything.
And it got to a point where itwas like my ego.
I had to put it away and reallythink about do I want to solve
this case?
Do I think this podcast ishelping me get closer to that?
And am I willing to ask peopleto donate if they enjoy the show
in order to help to do that?
(36:57):
Donate if they enjoy the showin order to help to do that?
And it was like, yeah, I have noother option.
And I mean, I sat on it for awhile.
We made the actual GoFundMe onMarch 16th and I didn't launch
it until April 9th or something,because I was like I don't even
want to share it, I don't evenwant to do it, and so it really
took me a while to.
Even when I post about it now,I'm like, oh my god, but it's
(37:20):
been really interesting andbeautiful to see people donate
because they consume the contentand at the end of the day, it's
.
I have made 12 episodes ofsomething that tens of thousands
of people download and findentertaining.
Right, like I should get paidfor that.
(37:40):
Right.
I'm like creating entertainmentin the same way that Bravo
makes money to make TV shows I'mmaking something that people
are consuming.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
They're saying that podcasts are being consumed
almost more than TV at thispoint.
Yeah, you know it's a trade-off.
Okay, if this is the contentyou want, you've got to help it
keep going in some way, whetherit's ads or whatever.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
It feels a lot like public radio and I think about
that a lot.
When I was a kid, I wouldlisten to the radio with my
grandma, like on my way to theschool, and they'd be like, hey,
if you like this radio station,throw us five bucks a month.
And it feels a lot like that.
Yes, and it feels a lot likethat.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yes, so much of what you're saying makes sense.
I mean, again, it's a totallydifferent reason behind it and
everything.
But that's how I felt with mypet podcast, because I've become
very passionate about it and Iget to have people who are
working in shelters and who arerunning rescues that need people
to understand what's happeningand how they can help.
But I pay for everything.
I do it all myself.
(38:39):
You know I haven't made anymoney off of it and it's not big
enough.
You know you have to have somany downloads to even start to
do ads.
So there is that point whereI'm like, ok, I got it, I got it
, something has to give.
And so, as part of why Istarted a second podcast because
you know I'm helping peoplestart podcasts so hopefully that
(38:59):
can help.
But it is hard because you getto this point where you believe
in it and there's so much of youin it.
You don't want to let that go.
But, like you said, the economyis what it is, you got to eat.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
So yeah, I want to help, really help, yeah it's
wild and yeah, and I also feltme trying to convince myself
that it was okay to do this.
I was like, okay, cool, if Iget you know 500 people that get
$5, right, like I don't needyou know everyone to give 500
bucks, that's crazy.
But if everyone could just givea little bit then now it's like
(39:32):
everyone feels like they're partof this and they want me to
solve it and they're sort ofinvested now in this and it
feels like you're building thisbit of a community, and so that
was another way that I justifiedit in my head of okay, now it's
we're really building.
This is like the core group ofpeople that are really riding
for this show.
And there are days where I donot want to do this and I want
to quit more than anything, andI can look back at that and say,
(39:55):
oh, but there's like thesepeople who like really believed
in you enough to like give youfive bucks or ten bucks or
whatever and like now you'resort of doing it for, like, that
added reason of, yes, you'redoing this for your dad and your
family and the closure of it.
Right, you're also doing it forthe people who, like believe in
you enough to like I mean, Idon't, like I understand the
value of a dollar I do not takeeven like a dollar donation I do
(40:18):
not take lightly and to thinkabout all of the people who have
already all of this and, yeah,hopefully we can just keep it
going.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
Keep it going.
No, I love that because, yeah,I hate that.
You know I've said, oh, buy mea coffee, all these different
ways you can get a little money.
But there is also this if youdo it and people do give you
money, then there is thatincentive.
Ok, people believe in this,they believe in me.
I have to keep going.
I can't just give up nowbecause there's more at stake
and that totally is hard to putyourself in that place, but it's
(41:07):
also wow.
Ok, people do believe in it andI have to keep going.
So it's like this great kind ofweird place to be at, I'm sure.
But you know, I think whenpeople, really when a story or a
person or whatever it may be,connects, people, you know, just
want to get behind it and helpkeep it moving.
(41:27):
You know, just like I'm surewe'd both give money for Bravo
to keep going.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Exactly, I mean, I pay for Peacock every month.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Oh, yes, I do.
You know, I want those extradeleted scenes and and unedited
reunions.
Thank you very much.
So, kind of on a lighter note,I guess I you recently put out
some merch that kind of came outas like kind of a haha out of
some stuff that happened in thepodcast where you have this new
(41:57):
thing.
It's okay, we can guess Snitch,as Daddy, which is a name your
father, was called by someone.
So that's kind of like alighter note of why did you
decide to kind of take thatlittle piece of something and
turn it into something else?
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, one of my favorite things I've ever heard
in my life.
So, yes, in June of 2023, Ireceived a message on Facebook
from a cousin of mine who saidthat my dad deserved to die
because he was a snitch assdaddy.
And I think she I mean,obviously she meant to hurt my
(42:38):
feelings, but there was justsomething about the grammar of
this message and the fact thatshe called my dad a snitch-ass
daddy while criticizing me.
That just made me laugh for 25minutes, and so I was like, oh,
I love that so much and I joke,I'm a bit of an eeyore.
I'm always like I'm sad, I'mdepressed, like I'd rather sit
(43:00):
at home with a blanket over myhead and watch TV than go out
with my friend, and so the factthat snitch ass daddy spells sad
was like the icing on top ofthe cake.
So I put sad on the front ofthe shirt and I put snitch ass
(43:21):
daddy on the back and I postedit.
And a friend of mine who's aGrammy winning producer was like
, oh my God, can I put snitchass daddy in a song?
And I was like, of course, it'sso funny.
I love it.
Yes, please do.
And then I messaged him a fewdays later and I was like
actually I want a song calledSnitch Ass Daddy.
And he was like whenever youwant.
(43:42):
So we went into the studiotogether months later and we
took the message that my cousinwrote me and we wrote a parody
song called Snitch Ass Daddy andwe just almost verbatim, line
by line.
I mean she said all kinds ofstuff, all very funny.
Like one of the things she saidwhich I think is ironic and we
just sort of touched on this, isthat I'm making all this money
(44:04):
on my podcast and I'm just outhere getting rich on this story.
So of course in the song it'sme talking about how rich I am
because of my snitch ass daddyand it's just so funny.
And we recorded this song andhe was so generous and did it
for free and I mean he's liketop notch.
So even just the time spent isso valuable and I'm so
(44:25):
appreciative to him for takingthe time to do this with me,
especially because I'm not likea legit artist.
This is obviously like a veryparody song.
You know he works with legitpeople and was like yeah, I'll
do this, you know, for you.
And then I have some friendswho got together and were like
hey, we make music videos andwe'd love to do a music video
for the song.
And so now we're doing a musicvideo for the song, oh my God.
(44:48):
And yes, I'm very excited.
So that comes out on June 7th.
Yes, it's become this thingbecause of this message, which I
just think is so incredible.
This thing because of thismessage which I just think is so
incredible, and I hope peopleare inspired by the fact that
she obviously meant for this toreally hurt me.
And now it's my favorite thingI've ever done.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
That's amazing.
I love when things we startturn into these whole other
things that are just like.
This is so fun and amazing andjust we get to create more
things with it.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, and that really goes back to like my roots.
I never was interested on a fanperspective of true crime,
never wanted to be like in itlike I am now.
I was always interested in likecomedy.
I used to do parody musicvideos when I was in high school
so this was always likesomething I just like was always
a fan of.
(45:37):
So to be able to marry the twothings- was like such a unique
and exciting opportunity for meto do something that was like a
creative outlet Right and sortof really back to my like
comedic roots, but also it tiein as like a marketing tool for
the podcast it was like a veryexciting opportunity.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
It's a fun way for you to kind of create joy for
yourself as a part of it in anew way, but then you also know
that once it's out there thatit'll help bring people to the
podcast.
So it's like a win in that way.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Yeah, and to draw in a new audience of people I would
never be able to reachotherwise is.
I'm very excited.
I'm hoping to collab withsomeone to make up a TikTok
dance to it and really lean in.
So I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Oh, my gosh, Sounds so much fun.
Well, I know I can't see myclock.
We're almost up with the timewe had scheduled and you have
other things to do.
Make a podcast yourself, sokind of like after hearing your
story and all of this if someonesays, you know, she's so
inspiring, I'd love to do this,something like it.
(46:43):
Someone said, yeah, I want tostart a podcast.
What advice would you give tothat woman that wants to use it
as a way to share her story?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, I think just start.
It's so cheesy, but I learned alot I mean even just about it
from doing it like episode fiveis better than one and episode
12 is better than five, and youwon't ever really have all of
the knowledge anyways, and therewill always be especially if
(47:14):
you're starting out there willalways be like a network or a
company that's like doing itbetter than you, to be honest.
And so if you let that be ahindrance of, well, I'm not
ready yet, or I don't have theright gear, or I don't have
whatever.
I didn't have this mic when Idid my Big Brother podcast, I,
you know you evolve and youchange and things elevate as you
go, but the learning of it islike almost just as valuable as
(47:37):
like the thing itself.
And I think just getting startedand like sitting down and like
deciding what you want to do,what you want to say, you know
the storytelling is much moreimportant than the quality and
the gear and all of that otherstuff.
If you have a really good storyand you put it out and it's not
the best quality, but the storyis really solid and you're
(47:59):
really good at telling it andyou tell it with like conviction
and it's something that means alot to you.
I think that really comesthrough.
And then there will be someonewho comes in a network or
someone else that's, hey, thisstory is great and we can help
you with all the other stuff.
So I think, yeah, and youwouldn't know that if you didn't
just start.
I mean, I went through thatwhere I was really upset that I
(48:20):
had to independently release mypodcast because I had pitched it
around and I had tried to getyou know a bigger network
involved and was really excitedto you know, enter in at number
one on the charts to be able tosee the growth and I, at one
(48:42):
point we were 34 on the truecrime charts and 60 something on
in all categories.
It's the only time we've everhit that.
But to know that I did that onmy own right it's like the best
feeling and I wouldn't have everdone that if I had sat back and
just gone.
Oh, I'm just not ready to dothis and I don't think we hit
that until like episode seven oreight.
I definitely think juststarting is it's the hardest
part of it, but it's the youknow.
(49:03):
Then you get going right.
Once you have episode one out,it's so much easier to do
episode two and three and fourand five and you get better and
better.
And I think that's figuring outsort of the format of how you
want to do it.
You know if it's episodic or ifit's, every episode is a
different what you're doing.
Every episode sort of standsalone.
And then just okay, now I'mgonna go make the thing and give
(49:24):
yourself, I think, deadlines isreally important, because
obviously it's easier said thandone to just be like just record
today, right, um, but if youhave to write it or you have to
schedule guests, you have to dosomething.
I always find it really helpfulto be like okay, by you know
October 1st, I have to do it andI have to have it out, and I
have to have it ready and givingyourself a really realistic.
(49:46):
Obviously it won't be donetomorrow.
But if it's like a guestsituation, you know, okay, in
four weeks I will have scheduledfive guests and then I will
start, and then I will put themout and like really giving
yourself like I have to do thisby this point and treating it
like a job and you just got todo it and no excuses, and just
put it out and start, and thenit'll all get better.
(50:07):
And I guess also a second thingis don't save your good stuff
for when you're better.
So, if you're worried about oh,I'm new and I don't know what
I'm doing.
I need to work out all thekinks.
What's your big brother podcast?
Start something and then learnand evolve, and I've always
heard that in film and TV it'slike you start with your C-list
(50:29):
idea and then you can work onthe other ones once you have
more knowledge and experienceand a fan base and all of those
things.
Just start and build somethingand yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
No, I always say just start messy.
Just start and then you'llfigure it out as you go.
I mean, there's a lot of thingsyou can do to help yourself in
the beginning, but just start.
You got to test it out and seeif you even like it and if you
even enjoy it.
Because you got to enjoy it.
There has to be some level ofenjoyment or, like you said,
(51:03):
it's something that you like totalk about or you have a passion
for.
If you love to talk about acertain tv show, do that just to
test it and see how things go.
Because 100%.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
I did not watch a single video on podcasting or do
a single course when I started.
I still, to this day, havenever done that.
I learned everything.
That's preferred method.
I just like to learn stuff fromdoing it and it's worked out
pretty well for me so far.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
And then when you get to the point where you need to
learn some aspect, there's somany ways you can.
I mean university, and whatI've learned, too, being at this
point in my journey, is now I'mgoing to in-person events
podcast movement last month andpodfest Then you get to connect
more with people, but then youget to learn and when you find
your community, people are goingto help you without you having
to pay for it.
(51:46):
You're going to exchange things.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
You're like I'll do this for you if you do this for
me and do episode swaps and allthat great stuff 100%, and there
are so many resources like thatout there and, yeah, you
wouldn't have access to thatunless you had a podcast, so you
have to start to even begin toenter into those spaces and so,
yeah, starting is like the mostimportant, key piece of it.
Speaker 1 (52:10):
And once you have that first episode out, you're a
podcaster Exactly Well.
Madison, thank you so much.
I've been so excited about thisbecause I've been listening to
your podcast and following yourstory and I you know I don't
know anybody else personally inthe true crime world, so when I
was able to connect with you, tohave you on, I think it's so
(52:31):
important to show all thedifferent ways that we can
podcast and share our story.
So I appreciate your time andyour openness and sharing your
experience with all of us, and Iwill put in the show notes all
of the links to follow Madisonon social media, to follow Ice
Cold Case, to listen, as well asto check out all the things
(52:54):
she's doing to help support thepodcast.
Keep going.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Thank you so much for having me.
This was absolutely lovely.
Speaker 1 (53:02):
Thank you so much.
Oh, my gosh, I'm so excited.
Yes, I hope you enjoyed that asmuch as I did Way back when I
recorded it getting to meetMadison virtually and really get
into her story and her podcastand everything she is doing with
(53:24):
Ice Cold Case, as well as newthings, and I just really hope
you enjoyed it.
I love kind of coming back tothis a year or more later,
finally getting to put it out,because her story, no matter
what it comes out, it's stillvery inspiring and I know there
are podcasters that arequestioning whether they should
(53:46):
start or do anything or anyonecares and so just know, whatever
is that thing, that thing youwant to talk about, that thing
you're passionate about, thatstory you want to tell or maybe
find out more about, like herwith the True Crime Podcast.
Just know, this is your answerfrom the universe saying do it.
Somebody needs to hear yourstory.
(54:09):
I am so happy to be back on thepodcast and to be talking to you
, to be sharing my story, to besharing these amazing interviews
I have done, but also to besharing what I've learned and
hopefully you can learn from meand maybe not make some of the
same mistakes I've made.
I'm very grateful that you arehere with me and that you're
(54:29):
going to be here with me as Irelaunch and keep sharing my
story and many others.
So, wherever you are listeningto this, please make sure you
hit follow or subscribe.
Whether you're on Apple orSpotify or iHeart or you're on
my YouTube channel, pleasesubscribe, please share, please
(54:50):
help me get these amazing femalevoices and their stories out
into the world, and I cannotwait to see you back on the next
new episode Podcast your story,because your story matters and
your story needs to be told.
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