Navigating Loss and Healing Through Shared Stories

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Do you have a story that you want to share with the
world?
Do you think your voice needsto be heard?
Well, I'm here to tell you thatpodcasting is the fastest way
to share your story with theworld.
Hi, welcome to a new episode ofPodcast your Story.
I'm your host, dr Julie MartyPearson, and I am so happy to

(00:30):
have you here for a brand newinterview that I have done with
Melissa Wright of your BishTherapist Podcast.
I met Melissa through anotherpodcast.
The podcast is Drama Darling byAmy Phillips, who has been a
longtime comedian, radio hostand podcaster who covers reality

(00:55):
shows, specifically Bravoreality shows.
If you don't know this about me, I love Bravo.
I am all about Bravo and all oftheir reality shows.
It is actually how I decompress.
As someone with an education inpsychology, I also love
watching reality just for thepsychology of what people will

(01:17):
do on camera.
But anyway, I love reality andbecause of that I followed and
listened to Amy Phillips andthrough that I met Melissa, who
has been many times a guest onher show and a co-host.
Melissa then started her ownshow where she really breaks
down reality and other types oftelevision from the mental

(01:41):
health perspective.
From the mental healthperspective.
She is herself a therapist andhas worked in many areas of the
mental health field, whichyou'll learn more about.
But one day I reached out toMelissa, partly because she's a
podcaster and in the mentalhealth field, but also because
that she herself is a cancersurvivor.
I really love the way sheapproaches her content and her

(02:05):
episodes, but I also really lovehow open and honest she is
about her own mental health, herown health journey and the
battle she has faced since shewas a teenager dealing with
cancer.
Last year, I lost a fellowpodcaster and friend, rebecca
Johnson, to cancer and reallystruggled with how to deal with

(02:28):
the grief as well as to honorand remember Rebecca.
So one of the things I did wasI asked Melissa if she would be
interviewed for my podcast andtalk about her experience, but
also help me to talk about theways that we can support our
friends and family when they'regoing through serious illness

(02:48):
like cancer.
I don't know about you, butsometimes I feel like I don't
know how I can help, and measking how can I help you isn't
really something they need to beworrying about.
So this is a very honest andraw conversation that Melissa
and I had, talking about hercancer journey, how she thinks
people can help their ownfriends and family, as well as

(03:10):
talking about her podcastjourney and how podcasting has
changed her life.
I know you are going to enjoythis interview and I cannot wait
to hear what you have to sayafter, so please make sure to
reach out to me on social media,on my YouTube channel or via

(03:32):
email, and let me know yourthoughts after you listen.
So now I welcome Melissa to thePodcast your Story podcast and I
can't wait for this interview.
I think I'm fangirling a littlebit here.
I am so excited to welcomeMelissa Reich.

(03:55):
I hope I just spelled your nameright.
Okay, welcome Melissa Reich tothe podcast.
Hi, melissa, thank you so muchfor being here, hi.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Julie, thank you so much for having here.
Hi, julie, thank you so muchfor having me.
I'm honored and I'm veryexcited to be here, so thank you
.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yes, I am super excited for this conversation
for many reasons, but to getstarted, I want to explain to
the listeners how I met you viasocial media and your podcast.
So Melissa has a podcast calledyour Bish Therapist Anyone
listening who is a Bravo fanwill get the name without us

(04:30):
explaining.
So I would say you know, goingback years, it started with Amy
Phillips, who used to hostReality Checks on Andy Cohen's
channel on Sirius XM, who thenstarted her own podcast, drama
Darlings, and I believe it wason the podcast that you first

(04:54):
started speaking with Amy aboutBravo-related topics.
Is that correct or were you onher radio show?

Speaker 2 (05:00):
No, so that's absolutely correct.
I was a caller into her radioshow because she and I DM'd a
lot and she just said that she'slike you're interesting, I like
your point of view.
Call into the show and so Iwould call in as she was getting
ready to leave.
And then, when she went over toDrama Darling, she said you

(05:21):
know what, I'm starting this newshow.
I like what you got going on,so why don't you come on the
show?
And your bitch therapist wasborn.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
That all is making sense to me now.
I do remember there were pointsat which callers would call in,
especially when we were talkingabout psychology-related things
on her radio show.
But specifically so Amy's showsand podcasts are all about, you
know, going over reality showsmostly Bravo, but all types and
so one of the things that alwayscomes up whenever we talk about

(05:53):
reality, of course,specifically, especially, I
would say, housewives shows iswhy do they act this way?
What is the psychology behindtheir behavior?
So that's kind of where youcame in to kind of give your
guidance.
So what has that process kindof been like for you to start to
use your background as a mentalhealth therapist into the TV

(06:16):
pop culture world?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
You know, it's funny because I was just talking about
this with my own BISH therapist, because I was just talking
about this with my own Bishtherapist, who I call my
listeners grand Bish therapistand my therapist loves that.
I call her that.
She's like I am honored, I amso honored.
But so there's a lot of skillsthat I didn't realize are

(06:38):
transferable from being atherapist, a practitioner, to
this pop culture space.
However, what I was notprepared for is that, you know,
I was always the type of kid whogrew up and was like why are
people treating me this way?
Why do people behave this way?
Why are adults so grumpy?

(07:00):
Why Like, why, why, why, why,why.
You know, I have always lovedthe pop culture space.
I was always one of thosepeople who I loved, you know,
like the gritty pop culturestuff, like Rock of Love and
Flava Flav and the Surreal Lives, you know all of that sort of
stuff.
And then, when Housewives cameabout, I just was in love.

(07:23):
Season one, episode one of Roniof OC.
I was just.
It started a love affair.
So what's fascinating to me isI would do what I'm doing now,
but in my own head, and I had noidea how much people would be
interested in what I had to say.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Or that other people weren't having those thoughts
too, right, I think, working ineducation of psychology, our
brains work a certain waybecause of what we know, right?
But yeah, that I love that thatyou didn't have any idea.
People would want to hear whatyou're thinking in your head.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Oh, because you know, again, I'm accustomed to
believing that, you know, peopledon't care about me or care
what I have to say.
You know, thanks, trauma.
So I just it just neveroccurred to me.
And then when I started in thisspace, when Amy had me on her
podcast, you know, she said Ireally think this is something

(08:19):
she's like between you know yourclinical experience and your
personal experience, and justthe way that you speak about
things.
She's like I think that this isa niche that is like untapped.
And let me be clear, there areother therapists who do this.
I am honored that I have justhad a lot of success which,
trust me, is shocking to me,first and foremost.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
No one's more surprised than me.
I get that, right, I think,especially because in like the
psychology world, like our jobis one-on-one, or in small
groups, like it's more of anintimate thing that you don't
think someone would like to hearthat conversation to the masses
.
Right, no one would want tohear what I have to say.
But it's so funny how youexplained your love of reality,

(09:08):
because I know oftentimes when Itell people, oh, I love Bravo,
I love all things Bravo, I loveHousewives, I love all of that
and they look at me like, reallyLike well, it's an outlet for
me, it's a way to kind of justturn everything else off, watch
it, be like this is crazy or ohmy gosh, I love this Right and I
think it's it's.
For me it's always been kind ofa way to turn off all the other

(09:30):
noise and just kind of watchsomething for fun, but it still
stimulates that psychologist inmy head which is all you're
right, which is always.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
This brain of mine is just always thinking so it was
a lovely distraction, fullyagree with that.
And, to be fair, it also waslike, you know, I've had a lot
of trauma but my life's not sobad, because, you know, we tend
to think that like money or famewould change that and it's like
, no, it just makes things morecomplex.

(10:03):
And so it was.
This like duality of it kept mementally stimulated, but it
also was such validation thatyou know, maybe I'm doing all
right here Me and my life isn'tso bad after all.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, I've always said there's a there's
definitely an element especiallywith housewife shows that money
doesn't cure all.
Money doesn't make you happy.
Money doesn't mean you're happy.
There's this level of oh, it'sso opulent and all these amazing
trips and parties and all ofthat, but that doesn't mean
they're happy and have a goodmarriage and have good
relationships, Right?

Speaker 2 (10:41):
So I've always kind of felt that validation of it's
interesting.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I mean aspects of it.
Sure, who wouldn't love to flyprivate or whatever it may be?
But that doesn't mean theirlife is easy.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
So I get what you're saying, and you know, what's
fascinating too is in my careerI have had the pleasure of
working with a very diversebackground of folks, and so
what's interesting is I'veworked with folks in lower
socioeconomic status, but I'vealso worked with folks in very
high socioeconomic status, andthe problems are similar but

(11:17):
they present very differently.
And so having that experiencewith people maybe who are
wealthy or in highersocioeconomic brackets, working
with that, it kind of does giveme this little insight into some
of these you know, rich womenand some of the issues they may
present with, and how differentthat is from someone who you

(11:39):
know is in a differentsocioeconomic bracket, if that
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
No, that makes total sense.
I just was thinking.
A friend of mine who's aclinical social worker.
Whenever I talk to her abouther patients, she says well, you
know, it doesn't matter, we allhave the same complaints Our
spouses, our jobs, our bosses,you know, family drama we all
have the same things.
It just looks differentdepending on who you are, where
you live, like you said, yoursocioeconomic status, and I

(12:07):
think what I've always foundinteresting with housewives is
when we start to learn abouttheir childhood, because a lot
of them were not born into moneyor high class living, and so we
can kind of sometimes go oh,that's why you're reacting that
way.
Right, yes, but it makes senseto us.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
That's exactly right.
And then you can tell some ofthem who did grow up with money.
There there is still drama.
It's just more subversive, likerich people have problems, but
they're just very like let's nottalk about them, let's just
pretend they don't exist.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
We can use our money and our status to kind of as a
shield and as armor and all ofthat, and so you know that
that's been interesting too,yeah, and I think that's kind of
what I think we're living, thatin a lot of areas of the world,
of how rich people use that togain power, but that's a whole
nother podcast interview Dingding, ding, ding, yes, but ding

(13:05):
yes, yes.
So that's kind of we've talkedabout like how your world
collided with reality and thencreated your podcast.
But before all of that, andobviously still now, you are a
licensed therapist.
So what can you tell thelisteners a little bit about who

(13:26):
you help, what type of workyou've done to give them a sense
of like kind of how who you areas a person helping others in
the mental health space?

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, good question that when I went to college, I
went to Penn State University inPennsylvania and I did my
undergrad in psychology.
But I wanted to give myselfsome actual experience before I
went to grad school, which nojudgment ever.
You either.
There's really two options youeither go right to grad school

(14:00):
right, which you're familiarwith, or you work in the field
and then go.
And so I knew, because I'm verytype A, I wasn't worried that
if I took a break I wouldn't goback because I am psychotically
focused, which is part of myproblem.
But so my first job I actuallyworked at a place called oh I

(14:22):
don't know if I should say thename of it now that I'm thinking
about it.
Okay, so I'm not going to saythe name, but it was a very
intensive scenario where it wasa unit of girls from ages 12 to
18.
It was like a residentialtreatment facility, and so my
first job was really dipping mytoe in the pool of.

(14:46):
Does this make sense for me?
Because I'm also painfullypractical and I was like I don't
want to go right for school if,like this isn't really what I
want to do me, is that myrelationship building skills

(15:08):
with people, aside from theclinical interventions and the
clinical knowledge.
For me that is my strength isconnecting with people, seeing
them, making them feel seen.
I just have that way about meand I didn't really know that
until I worked at my first job.
And so from there I have workedin inpatient residential
treatment facilities for drugand alcohol.
So for a lot of my career Ifocused on drugs and alcohol and

(15:32):
I did individual therapy, grouptherapy, family therapy,
couples therapy.
I've kind of done it all.
I've worked with people inNortheast Philly and then I've
also worked in other locales, soI really have seen a gamut.
But my focus has always beenreally on adults, individuals

(15:54):
with anxiety, depression, trauma.
That's kind of my sweet spot,as I like to say, just of my
therapy style is not for kids,it's really for adults.
And so my first job I did workwith kids and I really had a
hard time with it because mystyle is so adult and if I'm

(16:17):
being frank, I'll be honest andshare that.
You know I hadn't processed mytrauma when I started working in
the field and so my inner childstuff was still so painful and
so I think that also, if I'mbeing candid, you know, really
presented a hurdle with kids,you know, because I was so out

(16:38):
of touch with my stuff, whichyou know it's interesting as
I've gone about my clinicalcareer, my own stuff has really
made or broken my experiences,and so what I will say is that I
haven't practiced since thepandemic due to health issues
that I've had and I wassearching for.

(16:58):
Am I going to go back to work,you know, with my health stuff?
What do I do?
And therapy to me is truly sosacred.
It is, I mean and I'm trying tothink of the word that I want
to use I just take it soseriously and it's so sacred to
me that I was like, well, Ican't practice if my body is
unpredictable.

(17:19):
If I'm waking up one day and I'mlike I don't know if I can do
this, that's irresponsible toyou know, to treat Like what
even is my purpose and then,boom, this falls into my lap,
and so it's very different.
But I do get a lot of messagesabout you know, wow, you really

(17:42):
helped me to see this.
I had someone tell me the otherday that, you know, listening
to my podcast helped themextricate themselves from an
unhealthy relationship.
Extricate themselves from anunhealthy relationship, and you
know so this is a very longwinded way to say is that I just
love helping people and I lovemaking people feel seen and feel

(18:04):
understood, and so now I justget to do that on a greater
level, which also comes withpros and cons, right, because in
therapy it's just one personprojecting their stuff onto me,
right?

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Just one.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
But now on the internet it's 14,000.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
And they all have an opinion about it.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
Oh, now don't think they have an opinion about it.
They have an opinion about me,honey, and they're like you know
, I am not accustomed to havingpeople really dislike me.
It's never something that I'vereally been used to.
I've, you know, always hadmaintained friendships and done
well socially.
And now all of a sudden, inthis space, people really

(18:48):
dislike me, and so that's justthe Internet.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Right.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
But that is the one piece that I will say I was not
prepared for is just the massprojection onto me and people
taking all of their stuff aboutbad therapists or someone who's
hurt them and they're putting itonto me journey.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, that that totally makes sense to me
because in therapy you'regetting one person possibly
projecting on you and you knowwhy, or you know that's
happening, and it's much more ofa controllable process.
But I can imagine five hundredor a thousand people commenting
on an episode or a reel orwhatever You're like.
Ok, that's a lot.

(19:30):
I can't take all of that.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
It's so much.
It's so much.
It's great because I have awonderful community of folks
that they are just so engagedand they will share their
thoughts and I do.
I will get hundreds of commentsand there's some days where
it's like I can't manage this,but I love it.
I love that.

(19:52):
You know it's a place forpeople like us to go to.
I call it like ethical realityTV.
You know, I take something thatmay not be ethical or great and
I use it to.
You know, talk about theseimportant concepts.
I kind of joke.
It's like tricking kids intoeating their vegetables.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
No, it's so true.
You're using it as a vehicle toeducate and let people know.
You know it's OK to feel thisway, it's OK that you've had
this issue.
You're not alone.
I say that all the time towomen I work with who want to
start a podcast.
I'm like the purpose you maynot know, you may not know who
you're going to reach, and Iwould say you never know who

(20:35):
might hear this episode and beimpacted and it may have nothing
to do with what you weretalking about, and so there's a
power in that.
And I also find that podcast issuch a great tool for building
community.
Like you said, you have thisgreat community and I think

(21:00):
that's really powerful foreveryone, but especially us as
women, to connect with peoplethat we wouldn't have ever
connected with without it.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
It's such a huge, has such a huge reach.
I'm always shocked when I seecountries that are listening to
one of my podcasts.
I'm like, ok, right, oneepisode.
I just went through all thelocations where people are
listening and I'm like, how arethere people listening to me in
North Korea?
I am gobsmacked.
But thank you, thank you somuch so.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
My first podcast, the story of my pet.
I'm always shocked when I seeIreland, you're on the top chart
.
Norway, I'm like, okay, youknow even countries that English
isn't their first language.
You're like, well, it's veryinteresting.
You just never know.
And that does segue intosomething else we will talk
about in a few minutes.
But I do want to say so much ofwhat you have said in your

(21:44):
history of your education andworking.
It's like ding, ding, ding forme.
You know, originally I wentthrough undergrad and a master's
in psychology, straight into adoctoral program and clinical
psych.
And it was that first year of,you know, starting to do
practice therapy and all of that, that I realized I can't do
this, I can't take on everybodyelse's stuff.

(22:06):
I just realized, because youknow, whatever you call it
empath, whatever.
Whatever you call it empath,whatever, I've always been an
introvert, but I've always beengreat at helping people through
difficult times andunderstanding what they're
trying to say and all of thosethings.
And, like you, I didn't realizeit was a skill until one of my
professors said you're reallygreat at this, you should come
do research with us and do focusgroups and interviews, you know

(22:31):
.
So I thought oh, that must be,and I should be a therapist.
But psychology is so broad insome ways.
There's so many ways we can usethat education.
So you're making me feel, seen,I'm like I get it.
You think you should do thingsbecause that's what you're good
at, but it still may not be theright place for you and I think
that me doing this right.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
It shows how we can do what we do in so many
different ways.
There's not just one right way,or even two.
You know it's like and theability to shift.
You know as, as we relate somuch because doing this and and
going outside of our comfortzone it's very uncomfortable,

(23:17):
but it's.
It's some of the greatest stuffI think I can speak for me I've
ever done Right.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Absolutely.
Me too.
I've made some of the bestconnections and friendships and
met some of the most amazingwomen, especially that I'm like
I would have never met you women.
Especially that I'm like Iwould have never met you.
And for me, as a 47-year-oldwoman without any human kids
only for kids I always felt veryalone in that, because most of
my friends and family have kidsand have that journey, and

(23:45):
through podcasting, somehow I'vemet so many who are very much
like me that it's like, wow,okay, I'm not alone.
In a way that I always kind offelt on the outs.
And that is the power ofpodcasting, I think.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
And I think for me you know and I know we'll talk
about this, but losing myability to have children via
ovarian cancer when I was young,it does validate so many women
who, by the way whether you wantchildren or not, it's like
childless women are seen as well.
We know how we're seen Lessthan no value all the buzzwords.

(24:19):
And so what I find reallyspecial and important is
changing that narrative, becauselook at the work that we're
doing Right, and so I thinkthere needs to be the societal
shift away from.
Women are valuable in manyother roles other than mother,
maybe some in addition to orother than, or what have you,

(24:39):
but that's for me.
I'm just a huge advocate, I'mvery outspoken and I am just a
champion for women in that way,and I just couldn't be prouder
to do that, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Well, I am a very proud auntie.
I have many both blood andnon-blood nieces and nephews, as
well as fur babies that are Iam auntie to, and I take that
role very seriously and I loveit very much.
And I know, for me personally,not having kids was more of a
choice, although many doctorssaid we're not telling you not
to, but we're not sure how yourbody will respond.

(25:14):
I have autoimmune issues sinceI was young.
But when I did have ahysterectomy I didn't anticipate
the emotional and psychologicalfeelings I had because it was
like you know, I'm not going tohave kids.
This isn't a big deal.
I need to do this for my body.
But then I was in my room on thewing where all the babies had

(25:36):
just been born, hearing all thebabies cry overnight as I had
just had my uterus removed, andI did not expect that.
I didn't even think about whereI would be that night, let
alone what that experience wouldbe like.
So I think that's importantbecause I know now there are
other women who have felt thatand have also felt alone and not
understanding how to feel likethat and, as women, no matter

(25:59):
how we lose it, whether we'vehad kids or not losing that
ability to have children impactsyou, no matter what you think
it will.
I have learned that, and so Ithink, like you said, podcasting
has given me a way to connectwith people and women in a way I
never would have been able to,and five years ago, if you told

(26:22):
me I had a podcast, I'd be likewhat are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Same.
I joke all the time that I amtech elderly, and it is not so
much a joke and more a truth.
Elderly, and it is not so mucha joke and more a truth.
If someone would have told methat I would have this
complicated setup, that I wouldbe doing this, I would have said
that you were on mushrooms orsome sort of psychedelic and I
am so sorry that I can't helpyou.
But you're right.

(26:47):
I mean, I talk to people everyday for the past year that
before I even started doing this, I didn't even have them in my
life.
And now there's so many peoplelike you and other folks that I
talk to on a day-to-day basisthat a year and a half ago they
weren't even on my radar.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
So it's just it's wild, it's cool, it's stressful,
it's beautiful, it's all's, allthe things, all the things and
sometimes all the things in oneday, right, sometimes.
Yes, that's correct, yes, yougot it.
But I do think that COVIDshifted that for a lot of us
like it, for one kind of stoppedthe world and we weren't doing

(27:29):
what we'd always been.
And then it also made us reallyrealize how fragile life is and
how quickly life can change.
And I think I've met so manywomen that made shifts in some
way since then, because theywanted to do what they wanted to
do.
They wanted to feel proud abouttheir work or their side hustle
or whatever it may be, and it'svery stressful to go out and

(27:52):
try something completely new.
It's very stressful to go outand try something completely new
.
And you know, but for me,meeting people like you and so
many others, it's like.
This is why I'm here.
I'm connecting with women who Ineed for the rest of my life,
because you know, we're allgoing through something and we
need that support so much.
So so that's right, yeah,that's right.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
And I, oh, I'm sorry, no, go ahead.
I think that for me, havingcommunity is so special and
important because not all of uswere privileged to be born into
a community that we should havebeen born into.
And so you know, like you said,it's not just about blood, it's

(28:35):
about those relationships thatwe make for ourself in adulthood
, that support us, that lift usup, that, you know, maybe we
didn't have the opportunity tohave growing up, and so for me,
that's the greatest thing, andI'm just really resonating with
that part of what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yes, absolutely so.
Speaking of someone I metthrough podcasting, one of the
reasons I reached out to Melissato ask her to be on the podcast
was a couple months ago, afriend of mine, rebecca Johnson,
passed away from cancer andeven though we knew ultimately
five days before she passed thatthere were no more treatment

(29:14):
options, she was going onhospice.
We were all processing that.
No one expected it to happen soquickly and so we were all kind
of just stuck in this shock,this like what do we do?
And if you want to learn moreabout Rebecca, you can listen to
her interview on this podcast.
I'm very grateful that I got tohave that space with her before

(29:35):
she left, because it means alot to me and so many others now
.
But one of the reasons Ireached out to Melissa, to you
specifically, is because you arevery open and honest about your
own journey with cancer andhaving survived twice.
So I kind of said to you I'mnot trying to put my grief on
you, but I need some helpunderstanding how to process

(29:59):
this Ultimately.
There's two things I have feltsince then is one how do you
process a sudden loss of someonewho was so bright and full of
life.
And the other side is for women, for anyone who has someone in
their family or friend that'sgoing through cancer.
How do we support them best?
Because you know there's that Idon't want to bother you, but I

(30:21):
want to be here for you, but Idon't want to push myself on you
all of that.
So those two reasons were thereasons I messaged you and said,
melissa, would you come andtalk to me about these things
and talk to me about thesethings?
So share as much or as littleas you want about your own
cancer journey.
To kind of give a sense of whyI reached out to you for that.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
I and first of all, I am honored to be here to kind
of memorialize Rebecca and alsoto give her pain meaning and
power, because that's all I cando for myself and that's all I
can do for my fellow survivorsand thrivers and people that

(31:02):
we've lost too soon.
So when I was 17, I wasdiagnosed with end-stage ovarian
cancer.
This was in 1998 and it wasstage 3c ovarian cancer.
It was misdiagnosed for a longtime because I was medically
neglected by my family and bydoctors because I was living in

(31:22):
an area that is terrible.
I was born and raised in Chicago, but we moved to a very small
town in Pennsylvania and that iswhen I got sick, which is like,
oh, if I was in Illinois, Ireally think I would have fared
much better, which is that'sright.
There's part.
So everything I'm explaininghere is like grief is so complex

(31:43):
and grief it's not just like wedon't have grief buckets.
When you have grief in one area, it triggers grief in another
area and another area and thenit becomes like a game of
dominoes and before you know it,it's like you're just drowning
in grief.

Speaker 1 (31:59):
And I have to say one thing I've always said about
grief to people is you can'tcompare grief.
You can't compare grief oflosing a person versus losing a
job or a marriage or a home toan awful disaster, to losing
parts of you for medical reasons, which I have gone through
myself.
That it's all grief and, likeyou said, it all goes to the

(32:23):
same space and then it justpiles up when you're not dealing
with it.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yep, and it has a way of really just smacking you
right in the face if you're notpaying attention.
So by the time my cancer wasdiagnosed, it was so far gone
that in 1998, recovering fromthis stage of ovarian cancer,

(32:49):
they were like we're sorry, werelike we're sorry, you know.
They suggested that my parentsmake accommodations and, you
know, basically plan my funeral.
And my parents, they took me toa hospital that they wouldn't
even agree to treat me.
They were like we can onlyoffer you like hospice.
And my parents, fortunately,were like, nah, we're going to,

(33:11):
we're going to look at somethingelse.
And so they took me to PennMedicine, who you know.
After I had, I think it was likenine or 10 months of
chemotherapy, I had threehysterectomies which how Three?
So the first one I had was whenI was 17.
They wanted to try to preservemy reproductive organs because I

(33:33):
was so young, you know again,in case I did want to have
children, which I did alwayswant to have children.
And then.
So the first hysterectomy wasjust one ovary and they found
that I had two liters of fluidand thousands of invasive tumors
from my diaphragm all the wayto my pubic bone, in addition to
two tumors the size ofsoftballs.

(33:56):
So the first surgery was todebulk that.
Then I did chemotherapy andthen I had another surgery and
they said, unfortunately wecan't save the ovaries, and so
they left in my uterus and mycervix.
And so the ultimate insult toinjury was after I recovered
from all of this.
I was put on because I have auterus and a cervix.

(34:19):
It's very complex, you need todo hormone replacement, and so,
to add insult to injury, I hadall of that happen and I still
proceeded to get a period forthe next years of my life.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yeah, that's not right.
20 years of my life?
Yeah, that's not right.
I can say that personallybecause that was the purpose for
me.
To get my uterus removed wasfor no more periods because it
was awful.
But come on, you're going to gothrough all that and still have
that.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
So I have all of these scars.
My abdomen looks like I wasattacked by a cheetah, these
scars my abdomen looks like Iwas like attacked by a cheetah,
and I've had two hysterectomiesat this point chemotherapy, and
I still was having periods andit was crazy.
And again, all of this was inthe effort but, ps, none of this
was made by me.
None of these decisions weremade by me.

(35:09):
These were made by my parentsand doctors, whose society was
like well, we still want tomaintain her ability to have
kids, but no one thought aboutwhat my quality of life might
have been Right.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
You're recovering each time and oh, I can't even
imagine how you felt before thatwith all of that in your body,
not knowing it, and then to havepiece by piece taken out like
just do it all and get it overwith.
You know, I can imagine thatfeeling.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
I wish I would have had you as my doctor, but no.
So although I have to say thepeople at Penn were great and so
miraculously they still mydoctors say to this day I am in
a medical journal that they arelike shocked that I was not only
able to get into remission, Isustained it for that cancer,

(35:56):
and so I basically what happenedis I recovered in time to go to
college.
I hadn't applied to collegesbecause I thought I was dying,
and so you don't apply tocollege when you think you're
dying.
So I applied to college.
I just like I was sotraumatized but just had no idea
that how bad it was Right, andI just went off to college.

(36:19):
I found psychology.
I just like fell in love and itbecame my distraction technique
from the anxiety that I wasfeeling, from PTSD that was
undiagnosed Now.
So I was able to have my careerand work and all these things.
And then, when I was 35, I wasdiagnosed with my second cancer,

(36:40):
which I am currently dealingwith, which is called chronic
lymphocytic leukemia.
Chronic lymphocytic leukemia isa chronic cancer that there's
no cure but there's treatment.
So I've been doingimmunotherapy for the past five
years.
I have to continue that for now, and it's basically the kind of
forever cancer until there issome sort of a cure for it,

(37:03):
which my doctors are hopeful inmy lifetime there will be.
But with chronic cancer it'slike even my experiences with
cancer are so vastly different.
One was like acute, it's goingto kill you right now,
immediately, like press the firealarm.
And this cancer it was likeslow growing and it was like I

(37:26):
was in a watch and wait periodwhich is basically just waiting
for things to get bad enough.
That necessitated treatment,but because the treatment that
I'm on right now, it did notexist when I was first diagnosed
.
That is how the light speed ofblood cancer research is truly
amazing, and I don't think thatI would even be here talking to

(37:49):
you today if it weren't for someof those advances, because my
CLL, because of my history ofcancer and because of that
chemotherapy I've become amedical unicorn.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
I've become, which is not something you want to be
people.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
No, it's awful because it's like I have 27
specialists.
None of them want to worktogether.
The medical system is anightmare, and so what's
frustrating now is that medicalsystem is a nightmare, and so
what's frustrating now is thatit's dealing with the grief and
the loss and all that comes withmy body, just basically
decompensating over the past,you know, 10 years.
But it's also the emotionalstuff that comes with that

(38:27):
number one and number two.
It's constantly managinganxiety of like it's just try to
think about the fact that youwant to die with this, not from
it, and it's like, oh, noproblem, I guess I just won't
wake up every day and thinkabout that obsessively.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
No problem in general medical practitioners, but also
us, as people don't realize theemotional, psychological toll
of chronic, everyday medicalissues.
And although I've never hadcancer and I cannot speak to
your journey at all in that way,having had autoimmune issues

(39:09):
since I was in sixth grade andhaving doctors tell my parents
she's just faking it forattention, there's nothing wrong
with her and the psychology ofnot getting to go to school for
almost a year, all of thosethings at the time impacted me
and still do.
Because of it shapes us and youwaking up every day with the

(39:29):
knowledge of you have this andhave to live with it, on top of
the fact that you don't knowwhat every day is going to look
like.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Some days are great you have energy the next day.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
You're like I can't get out of bed today and people
don't get it especially whenit's not visible.
They don't.
Oh, you're fine.
Well, I look fine, but I feellike I need to sleep for 13
hours, right.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Exactly.
And you know, what's funny isthat I have never looked better.
I will acknowledge that I havenever looked better, and it is
such gaslighting of my own body,it makes me so mad that I'm
like, because my skin is gray, Ilook youthful and so, yes to
your point, the psychologybehind the invisibility of our

(40:14):
illnesses is so frustrating andI do get constantly gaslit
because people are like well,you look great, so it can't be
that bad.
And, to be fair, you know, yousaid something that I want to be
clear.
It's like when your bodybetrays you and you are stuck in
a medical system that is, youknow, patriarchal and

(40:36):
gaslighting you.
I was told twice that I was ahypochondriac twice and twice it
was cancer.
Oh my God, I can't.
But the point is it's like itis.
It creates this emotionalstress, psychological toll.
That is what my podcast, thatis what I speak to, because,

(40:57):
whether it's cancer orautoimmune issues or being
gaslit by, you know, apatriarchal society, whatever it
is, we know what that's like,and so so do so many other
people, especially women,because there is a higher
incidence of autoimmune issuesin women, which I believe is
related to patriarchy and ouremotional selves and being told

(41:21):
oh well, you're just some crazybroad, so just you know, deal
with that.
Whatever Right, it all plays arole.
Stand up professionally.
It's just my greatest joy tolet people know this is how it
is.
It sucks.
You're not alone and you know.
Yeah, it's wild.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Yeah, and there's.
So, like you said, there's somany elements to it.
I have friends who've had tobattle their insurance just to
get a diagnosis for something,or you know.
There's just so many layers tohealth and wellness and dealing
with any type of chronic issue,both physical and mental health
wise, and there's also thisfeeling of I'm not supposed to

(42:02):
talk about it because then I'm acomplainer and I'm you know all
these negative things thatwe're told, and that's why even
talking about menopause andperimenopause was so taboo for
so long.
Oh, everybody deals with that.
Just keep it to yourself.
We don't want to hear about it.
And it's like no, you're goingto hear about it because I'm not
crazy.
I am dealing with a lot ofhormones that I don't know, how

(42:25):
to handle.
I know for me, even just aftermy hysterectomy, I would cry for
no reason, and that wassomething I never did.
I was never a crier or anoverly emotional person.
I'd be like what's wrong withme.
But it's like why don't youprepare me for the things that
could be changing?

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Because and that is why I'm here to do what I do,
because women, I literally wokeup in the hospital and they were
like we've removed your parts.
They threw a pack of birthcontrol at me and they were like
you know, good luck.
And it's like women's issuesare underfunded, are

(43:03):
under-researched, areunder-prioritized.
Yet this is an experience thatevery woman on the planet, since
the beginning of time, hasdealt with, and there are
absolutely psychologicalimplications of hormonal
disruption due to menopause,perimenopause, autoimmune issues
, whatever it is.
There absolutely is anemotional, physical, like

(43:27):
highway, it's like the gutaccess highway that's what they
call it, and there areconnections here that I am happy
to shout from the rooftopsYou're not crazy, I'm not crazy,
we're not crazy.
Society, just because theydon't want to listen to us,
crazy, irrational women, doesn'tmean that we don't feel or

(43:48):
experience something, and that'syou know.
So I think that's what's reallyimportant to you know, use our
platform for right.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Right, because what I've learned is it's not just
the medical system itself, it'sthe physicians I've had, on at
least two occasions that justpopped in my head.
Women physicians say things tome that scarred me emotionally.
Say things like oh well, yourbreasts aren't as developed as
they should be.
You've been on birth controlfor so long and I'm just Like

(44:17):
you, don't just make commentslike that and think that's OK
and so it's, it's systemic, aswe both know, both for sure.
Mental health wise.
Physical health wise.
Women's health wise supporteach other.

(44:40):
So I could say to you now, inyour world of managing a chronic
illness, what are ways for youlike?
If someone has someone like youin their life and they want to
be supportive, they want to behelpful, what would you say to
them would be like this is thekind of thing I would like or
not like.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
So for me, I am so assertive and outspoken that it
is impossible for me for you tonot know what I need, just
because that's who I am.
I am an Aries through andthrough, I am a Ram, and I think
that's how I've survived, justlike pushing my head to keep
going Right.

(45:11):
But if you know, someone inyour life isn't as vocal and
even people who are vocal, bythe way, we still have needs,
and you know I don't alwaysexpress those because we don't
want to feel like a burden andso my message to people is that
if you are approaching someonewith love and understanding,
there's nothing that you can dowrong.

(45:31):
Like you and I, usually there'snothing you could say to me
that's wrong or hurts myfeelings, because you're coming
from a place of understandingand wanting to be helpful.
So that number one is that somany people are afraid to upset
their loved one.
But if you really have thatrelationship, just know that's
really not possible.

(45:52):
Number two I think the biggestthing as a therapist and as a
patient.
What I'll say is it's importantto ask someone are you venting
or are you looking for solutions?
Because one big thing I noticedwith chronic health issues my
husband is very guilty of thisand he's working on it too is
that when we love someone and wewant to help them, we can

(46:12):
become overbearing and just wantto fix it and guess what?
Can't do that you know.
And so I think, as a friend, asa loved one, as a family member
, it can even be acknowledgingyour feeling of helplessness or
powerlessness and to say to yourloved one you know, I feel
helpless and powerless, thissucks, you know.

(46:33):
Acknowledging that can just bevery helpful.
And then I think the last onefor me is showing up in ways
that you know the person wellenough to know that they might
appreciate this, you know.
You know I will constantly tellpeople I got this, I'm fine, and
I am and I do, but that doesn'tmean it's still not good for me

(46:56):
to get that support.
So if you know someone is kindof like that, maybe just you
know it's not sending a text, oryou know, I know people are
allergic to phone calls thesedays, which you know.
Ok, that's fine, I'm a talker,I love a phone call, but I get
it.
So, whether it's just likesomething, a note, to let you
know I'm thinking about you.

(47:17):
I have this friend, kim.
She sends me cards like stilllike a greeting cards, but
that's special to me because Ilove a greeting card and I save
them and you know.
But again I'm an eldermillennial, so you know, I am
elderly, I get that.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
My mom still sends me cards, even though she lives 20
minutes from me, and I'll seeher in person.
She'll send me an extrabirthday card in the mail, and
you know.
So I get what you're saying.
There are ways that, for me, Ilove giving people gifts.
I've been told gift giving ismy superpower.
I'm really great at givingpeople like the perfect gift.
It's really hard for people togive me a good gift without me

(47:54):
telling them exactly what I want.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Oh, challenge accepted as someone who's a good
gift giver like you.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Challenge accepted, Julie, my husband has learned to
stay on script, yeah, yeah,because I am so specific with
gifts I give.
It's like I have a hard timewhen people give me something
and I'm like, well, what do I dowith this?
And that's awful and that'ssomething I work on.
I'm grateful for everything,but I love that you say that you

(48:22):
know the person well enough toknow what would help them, what
would make them happy.
And I think I had a hard timethat with Rebecca in the last
few months.
I knew she was going throughall this treatment and having
all these side effects.
I felt like I always wanted tomessage her or text her I don't
want to bother you, but are youOK?
And then, so that also canmaybe not feel great on her side

(48:42):
hearing that.
So it is a process of learningwhat's right for that person
that you're trying to support.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
And ultimately leading with love, though you
can't go wrong.
Right, you can't, you know, andto your point, something else
you can do.
If you don't want to text likeare you OK?
Because you know they're not,you can just send a love, you
thinking about you, you're on mymind, you know, I saw this
funny thing and I thought of you.
Or I saw this dumb thing and Ithought of you.

(49:11):
Or I saw the sweet, whatever itis, that's OK.
That's OK too.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Yeah, and I think the same can be said for grief.
I know for me having differenttypes of grief in my life.
For example, six years ago mydad passed away.
He was 94 and a half, so whenpeople would ask me, well, how
old was he?
And I would say that, oh well,like it's fine.
Okay, it's like okay he died.
Well, yes, he had a very longlife, but it's still not happy,

(49:40):
it's still not yay he's gone.
Like people don't realizecomments, how they reverberate,
and that's a good example I loveto share, because it's like you
just don't say that to someone.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
And correct.
My grandfather is 97 and he'sstill alive and he's like my
best friend the only reason I'mnormal I'm not joking, and I was
talking about this with afriend that it's like I will
never be ready to live in thisworld without him.
So my grief is palpable.
But it's like, yeah, he's 97.
And that's how it goes.
So two things can be true,right, someone can like OK, yeah

(50:16):
, you die of old age, but itdoesn't make it any less sad, I
think.
What people?
My one bit of advice if thewords at least are about to come
out of your mouth, just takethat, pack that up and go
somewhere else with at least dot, dot.
At least you had a good life,at least you, you can.
You didn't have children, andso now you can focus on at least

(50:37):
Right, the, at least stuff.
When someone's trying to makeyou feel better, that's usually
misguided and that comes off asvery patronizing.
So that's the one thing I cansay to stay away from is the at
least Right, the toxicpositivity, right?

Speaker 1 (50:57):
And one thing I will always say to people in
instances like that, it's like,yeah, but for me I only got him
for 40 years of my life.
It's never going to be so.
Whoever it is and however youlose someone, it's OK to say yes
, but, like you said with yourgrandpa, it was never going to
be enough, right?
And we lose people fordifferent reasons.

(51:18):
But and I think people have aharder time when it's someone
younger than older, they like,oh, that's OK, they were old
anyway.
But grief is grief.
I will say I think for mepersonally, dealing with the
grief of losing Rebecca as afriend, even though I'd only
known her a few years, therewere these two pieces of one.

(51:41):
Why am I so impacted when youknow I haven't known her my
whole life?
You know, I even say it tomyself it's not this, it's not
that it's like, but that doesn'tmatter.
And then the other side of itis what I hadn't really I was
trying to think.
I haven't really had thishappen before.
It's someone my age dying and wewere like within a year of the
same age, and so I think thatwas part of what what an amazing

(52:05):
person she was, how much Iloved her and was so grateful to
be a small part of her life andher being.
My age was like oh, this is alot more complex than I expected
it to be, and so I think Pariscan sneak up on us in ways that
we aren't prepared for.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Because, to your point, what someone like Rebecca
does is it makes us realize ourown mortality and that is very,
you know, existentialist stoicssince the beginning of time
have talked about memento mori,which is remember.
We will all die and mementomori is really meant to be a

(52:44):
philosophy of.
Sometimes, you know, I am moreacutely aware of my mortality
because of my stuff, but Rebeccamade you aware of yours and
just as humans, existentially,that's extremely scary.
It's unsettling because we liketo think we're young and I'm
going to be 44.
I'm not young anymore and youknow.

(53:06):
So that's one part of it.
But the other thing, julie, Iwant to make sure to tell you
and your listeners, is that Ilike to say grief is the
excruciating cost of love.
Your listeners is that I like tosay grief is the excruciating
cost of love, and so it doesn'tmatter how long you've known
someone, it doesn't matter, likewhen you connect with someone
and you watch them decompensateand pass away, there is just

(53:30):
such awful grief and sadness tothat.
Awful grief and sadness to thatperiod, no matter what she died
from or what happened.
And then you know you addcancer to that and all these
other things, I think also whatI want to say is you might have
a little bit of survivor's guilt.
So I've lost people before withCLL in my community.

(53:52):
I've lost people and it's beenvery hard and unsettling.
People I've never met, but it'sjust like wow, this is very
real.
And I think that all we can dois validate and acknowledge that
this is okay, and not gaslightourselves, because society loves

(54:12):
to gaslight and say, oh well,your grief makes me
uncomfortable, so I'm going totell you well, okay, she's in a
better place, can?
I curse yes, go ahead, fuck that.
Ok, fuck that.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Or that was two months ago.
Like aren't you over it already?
Like that kind of for the love.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Yeah Well, maybe it took me two months to feel it.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Well, that's the other thing is that grief is
sneaky and, like you said, whatI believe happens as we get
older, grief piles upon griefand so as we start to lose
people right people, our agepast people, younger people,
older, family members, whateverit like builds on itself and it
becomes harder and harder everytime.

(54:56):
And I think that's what peopledon't understand is grief is not
linear, it's cyclical, it'scircular, it's, you know very
complex Combinations ofeverything and what I've also
learned is that new grief bringsup old grief.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
Exactly, you know, I think I've been more sensitive
about things.
Like I said, my dad passed awaysix years ago but, having kind
of felt a lot more of it thelast few months, Veterans Day
was very hard for me and I'mlike how many Veterans Day has
there already been?
Why is this?
Why is me seeing a veteranspost hard?
My dad was a World War IIveteran and I would get
emotional just reading some ofthe people's posts and like why?

(55:33):
Because, like you said, it'snot linear.
You never know when it's goingto hit you and there's going to
be little things that trigger itthat you are not going to
expect, but then there's alsolittle things.
That's going to put a smile onyour face.
For me, seeing a seagull is mydad and when I see one or a
picture, or I see it insomething I'm looking at, it
puts a smile on my face becausethe beach was his favorite place

(55:56):
.
He loved to sit and watch theseagulls and that has been
something a solo single hasshown up for me many, many times
since he passed and that'ssomething I can hold on in a
positive way, and so I thinkwhat with Rebecca's passing is
what is that thing I'm going tohold on to?
To be happy Because she wassomeone who was a lot of us have

(56:19):
said it in different ways likea ray of sunshine, a light in a
dark room.
She just had this amazingpersonality.
She never held back from it.
She had a great Southern accent.
You'd love to hear her tellstories.
She had an amazing humor abouteverything, including her cancer
.
She was also someone, she.

(56:44):
Her podcast is Love is Not Dead, Just my Husband.
Oh my gosh, I love that.
And she would say that and getvery different reactions from
different people.
So I started a podcast to helpprocess her own grief from a
sudden loss of her husband andto help others.
But she approached it in such away that was like not making it
so sad and awful and negative.
And so she did the same thingwith her cancer.

(57:06):
I mean, she was diagnosed withcancer six weeks after her
husband died.
She is someone who has beenthrough trauma and so I think
for a lot of us we all, a lot ofus have said it was like she
went through so much.
Why didn't she get to be theone to beat it?
You know we all thought in theback of our head she'll do it.
You know it's been five years.
Yes, it came back, but shealways does it.

(57:26):
But you know, we never know.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
And so I think and that's survivor's guilt, right
is you don't have to have cancerto experience the guilt of why
she was giving us such you know,she had such a great way about
her and she was using herexperience, strength and hope to
help people.
Why her Right?
And that's that is the toughpart to your original question.

(57:56):
I think, julia, the one thing Ican tell you and other people
as the absolute best way to helpyourself with grief is to not
gaslight yourself and to stopasking why do I feel this way?
Why do I feel so sad?
Why am I crying?
Because that's very shame basedand it's very judgmental of
ourselves which, listen, I'mguilty of that.
But when you have a feeling,maybe just appreciate yourself

(58:20):
and say you know what?
Melissa, thank you for notingthat feeling that is so awful in
my brain right now and I'm justgoing to, I'm just going to
learn to take that in and I'mjust going to learn to feel that
, because, at the end of the day, a lot of what we try to do is
distract ourselves from feelinggrief and the only way out is
through.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
Yes, and I know that about myself.
I am an introvert my whole life.
I push it down, just keep itinside.
Don't need to bring that out.
Don't let that out.
I've always been.
I had an ulcer at five becausemy sister was in a bad bicycle
accident, was in the hospitalfor several weeks and I couldn't
see her and I didn't understandit and right.

(58:58):
So I know that's what I do.
Yes.
So I know it's easier said thandone, but I have had to learn
and I still have to push myself.
Don't be afraid of this feelingthat's coming on.
Just let it happen, because Iknow a lot of my health issues
are because I don't let ithappen and I push it down and

(59:20):
ignore it and just keep pushing,just keep going.
I'm a Virgo, I'm a type A, I doall the things, but no, because
ultimately that has led me tokidney disease and other issues
that I'm like.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Well, I guess I should face this now what we do
not allow ourselves to feel willget expressed in our body
Exactly A thousand percent, andto your point.
We have to remind ourselvesthat feelings aren't final and
they are not fatal Right.
They constantly change.
They are not going to kill youand you've made it through 100
percent so far of those times,and we're so.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
We got a good track record, you know, but I do think
you know, kind of I know we'reover our time together, but kind
of, to bring it all toperspective, I think there's
probably a lot of people, a lotof women listening who have lost
things, whether it's parts ofthemselves, from physical health
to marriages, to, you know,whatever family members, to

(01:00:20):
friends, that we have to notfeel bad about feeling bad about
it, and that the best way tohonor them is to remember them
and remember the positive.
And that is what so many of ushave done.
With Rebecca, you know we alldid little clips and our friend,
tiffany, who was her podcastmentor, published a final

(01:00:42):
episode of her podcast whereTiffany talked about their
connection.
She had several ones of us dolittle blips about what she had
meant to us and we feel like andTiffany is also set up for her
podcast to remain in perpetuity,so it will always be available
and that's a may seem like aneasy or a little thing, but it's
huge because it's like we'vedone this for her.

(01:01:04):
We can point people to herpodcast and say this might help
you with your grief.
I listen to her podcast becauseshe was my friend.
I was not a widow, nor ever hadcancer, but I have told her how
her podcast helped me deal withmy own grief From autoimmune
stuff.
I actually lost all of my teeth, I wear dentures and I have

(01:01:26):
since I was 32.
And when she spoke about hereye cancer and having to lose
one of her eyes to it and howshe realized she was grieving
that loss, I was like, oh my God, that's what all that was.
I was grieving a part of methat I didn't think I would lose
at 32, let alone maybe ever.
And we have to give ourselvesspace to feel those feelings.

(01:01:49):
But sharing your story and thisis what I tell everyone you
never know who needs to hear itand who you may help by saying
what you felt and what you'vebeen through, and that,
ultimately, is why we'repodcasting, that's why we're
here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
That's right.
That's the whole reason.
What a great summary.
And I am honored to be here, toyou know, to talk about Rebecca
.
I absolutely will be listeningto that podcast a thousand
percent.
I will be sharing about thatpodcast on my own podcast and I
think that you really havememorialized her in the best way

(01:02:32):
that you can, and all that'sleft is to feel the grief, right
.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Yeah, I think sometimes we're busy in that
part.
I know, like with my dad, thosefirst two weeks it's like every
day is 10 things and we got todo this and the funeral and this
and call all the people andthen you kind of come out of
that and you're like, oh OK,he's gone and life is different.
And you know, I have friendsright now who are going through
very difficult divorces, whichis its own grief, and it's like

(01:02:59):
just put your foot in front ofthe other every day and at some
point it'll be gone and you'llprocess it.
Right, we can give.
I think we have to giveourselves space and grace and
we're not great at that Spaceand grace, honey, we're not
great at that and the worldtells us nope, nope, you don't
get either of those.
Just keep going.
So I am so grateful, Melissa,for you to have been here, to

(01:03:26):
have this conversation, for usto get to know each other better
and also to memorialize Rebeccaand anyone listening who's lost
someone.
Help them through this process,and I hope it does, and I
appreciate you so much.
Everyone, go listen to yourBish Therapist podcast.
You're going to love it, Evenif you don't like reality TV.
She has great episodes talkingabout mental health and

(01:03:49):
different issues that areamazing educational pieces.
I encourage everyone to listen.
Thank you again, Melissa, forbeing here sharing your story
and helping us talk about thehard things.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Oh, it was my pleasure, thank you, this has
been amazing.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Wow, that was a great interview.
I love when I get to re-listento my interviews when I'm
editing and I really hope thatyou enjoyed it too.
I loved hearing more aboutMelissa's story, her journey
with cancer and her battle overthe years and living with a
non-curable cancer now andliving with a non-curable cancer

(01:04:36):
now.
I really really appreciate herperspective and information
about those of us wanting tosupport our friends and family
going through cancer or otherillnesses.
I really appreciate how openand honest she is about that and
I know it helped me and I hopeit helped you too.
I also hope that you wereinspired to realize, just as

(01:04:57):
Melissa did, you can start apodcast about anything.
You can lean on skills you have, work you do, or it can be
about something fun that youjust enjoy talking about.
I've thought about starting apodcast about Bravo shows for
years and maybe someday I'll doit, but I really loved getting
to know Melissa more and hearingher perspective on podcasting

(01:05:19):
and being a woman and being inthe mental health space, and I
cannot wait to share more newamazing interviews and content
with you here soon.
If you haven't done so already,head on over to my YouTube
channel and subscribe so thatyou will get notified every time
a new episode comes out, aswell as check out some of my

(01:05:42):
shorts of upcoming content andevents that you could be a part
of, including my Women'sPodcaster Party Networking
Community.
Thank you so much for listening.
Much love to you.

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Power of Storytelling: Navigating Grief & Chronic Illness with Melissa Reich of Your Bish Therapist

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