February 3, 2025 • 52 mins
****THIS EPISODE WAS RECORDED PRE-DEBATE EPISODE (93)****
Christians often reduce church to a Sunday experience where pastors perform and congregants consume—a model drastically different from Scripture's vision. The biblical church functions through multiple roles working in harmony, not through one person's efforts alone.
While pastors hold significant responsibility, their qualifications extend far beyond preaching ability. True pastoral leadership requires humility, prayer, compassion, and consistent love for people both inside and outside church walls. As Jonathan shares from personal pastoral experience, it's about ministering to real needs on Monday through Saturday, not just delivering powerful sermons on Sunday.
Deacons, from the Greek word "diakonio" meaning "through the dirt," play an equally crucial role in church function. Far from being mere money counters or decision-makers, they represent the serving heart of the church. Through their often unrecognized work—greeting visitors, caring for facilities, or quietly ministering—they demonstrate Christ's love in tangible ways.
Most powerfully, the podcast challenges every believer to recognize their essential role in God's kingdom. Using the analogy of a car engine where tiny spark plugs and gaskets are just as crucial as larger components, even the smallest acts of service—a kind text message, an encouraging word, a moment spent welcoming a visitor—contribute vitally to building God's kingdom. As Brother Sean shares about "Brother Hugh" who keeps popsicles stocked for neighborhood children, these seemingly minor gestures often make the most significant impact.
Whether inside church walls or in everyday interactions, someone is always watching your example. How does your behavior reflect Christ when you're ordering at a restaurant, shopping at a store, or discussing controversial topics online? The consistency of your faith may be the exact testimony that draws someone to Christ.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Proclaiming the gospel, helping individuals and
ministering to individuals inneed.
I just mentioned that.
I'm going to mention it again.
If your pastor is the only oneproclaiming the gospel, you are
not being a follower of Christ.
You're listening to theEveryday Christian Podcast,
(00:23):
where we apply scripturalprinciples to everyday Christian
lives.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm John Rich and I'm Sean Slogin.
Y'all have to forgive me.
I just found out this was livewe are doing a live episode.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
It's good to be with you all.
We were going to try to do anepisode on Monday or a live
episode on Monday and I got sickwith the bubonic plague or
something.
I'm not really sure what it isBird flu.
Yeah, bird flu, rat lungwormdisease, I don't know All of the
above had sort of a difficulttime pretty much just laying in
(00:57):
bed for like four days withfever and coughing and all that
mess, and I know some of you whoare listening and some friends
of ours have experienced thesame thing.
So we pray for you that that,uh, you get healed quickly.
It was probably one of theworst, worst sicknesses I think
my family as a whole has beenthrough uh, but we're here and
(01:20):
now he's here doing a podcastright next to me telling me.
He still doesn't feel goodcoughing, all, overoughing, all
over Sean the entire episode.
So if I do cough or clear mythroat, that is why Don't go
with me to eat tonightafterwards.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
We have a tradition.
We have a tradition where we goeat afterwards and this guy
won't do it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And I told him.
I said and you guys can hold meto that, while you're listening
to this podcast, podcast thatI'm going to go home and go to
bed right after this.
So thankful for everybody thathas joined us that's listened in
, thankful for the last episode.
I think we had severallisteners' comments, questions
on there.
Really awesome to see there isan episode we'll be doing two
(02:03):
weeks Actually it will be a weekfrom'll be doing two weeks.
Actually, it will be a week fromMonday.
This coming Monday we will bedoing an episode on a debate
between Nathan Mayo of Berean,holiness, and then Holiness
Evangelist Luke Beetz, aboutdoctrine standards and the
(02:24):
gospel.
You will not want to miss thatdebate.
It is going to be here at 7 pmon February the 10th, that is, 7
pm Central Standard Time.
On February the 10th.
It is going to be the debate ofthe century.
I keep saying that.
I have no idea if that'saccurate, but it's really
exciting.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Four people are going to listen.
I have no idea if that'saccurate, but it's really
exciting.
Four people are going to listen.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
No, we're excited for it.
Yes, very excited and ready tosee what God has in store there.
Let me hide that Christianpodcast.
So, yeah, if you have anyquestions for that, I'll that
(03:08):
you want the debaters to discussor answer during the debate?
Please message us or put acomment in the video below or
any.
I think we've had several postson Facebook that we have had on
there for people to leavecomments.
If you do have a questionduring that or for that debate,
please leave us a comment andquestion and we will submit
those for you.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yes, and we do understand that doing debates
like this is not always fun.
It's fun for us.
Some people act like it's notfun.
I'll put it that way.
We've been getting some verypositive feedback, some not so
much.
We want everybody to understandthis, though.
We're not doing this podcast totear one side or the other down.
(03:49):
We're not doing it to try tomake anybody look like fools.
We're doing it to try to helpand encourage other people.
Yeah, if, for whatever reason,this comes up and you hear
something from Nathan Mayo andyou're like, hey, that was
really good, great, that's whatwe want.
If you hear something greatfrom Luke Beetz awesome, that's
(04:15):
what we want.
We're doing these things tohelp people, try to encourage
open communication, open debates, open communication, open
debates.
Some feedback we've beengetting has been kind of
questioning and targeting others.
I'm just going to go ahead andsay it.
I didn't tell him I was goingto say this and that's not what
(04:38):
this is about.
We're not doing it to targetand take anybody down.
We're doing it to try toencourage people to dig deeper,
find answers, get help, and thisis one way we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, and it opens dialogue.
It opens the yes, the feedbackloop.
It opens communication betweenparties.
I think it it.
You know we've had a lot of,like you said, we've had a lot
of opposition, but we obviouslydon't really care.
We're still going on with it.
So I hope you all are excitedabout it at least as much as we
(05:08):
are.
I wanted to introduce thisepisode.
It is sort of a differentepisode because we're showing
the biblical role of the church.
We're showing different officesin the church.
We're showing how they shouldbe, how congregants should be,
what that looks like, is itauthoritative, is there a
(05:30):
hierarchy, etc.
So we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit and obviously,
during the episode we are live.
If you have a question duringthe episode or you have a
comment during the episode thatyou would like for us to read,
then please.
You know, obviously, if it'sG-rated, we've had a couple of
non-so G-rated ones, but we cango from there.
(05:53):
So I wanted to first start offwith talking about the church
hierarchy and talking about thatdefinition.
You know, if you think aboutchurch hierarchy, did we even do
our intro right?
I think yeah.
Well, I don't think we did.
We are talking about thebiblical order of the church.
We did.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Welcome back to the Everyday Christian Podcast.
This is Jonathan Rich, I'm SeanSlogan, and today we're going
to be talking about the biblicalorder of the church.
We did yes.
There you go, I think we missedthat.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Praise God.
We touched on it, but didn'tquite handle that at the
beginning, because I threw Seanoff by saying 10 seconds before
hey, we're doing a live episode.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I'm over here like trying to get myself prepped and
make sure my lines are allright, and then I'm like wait,
we're doing live, and then wetotally lost it.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, it was over for him.
If you think about hierarchywithin a church, the first thing
I myself think of is the Romanchurch.
You know Roman Catholic churchyou think about like priests and
bishops and archbishops andcardinals and the Pope.
Obviously, that's just anexample.
I don't celebrate or worshipthe Pope or look up to him in
(06:57):
any way.
I don't look up to archbishopsand et cetera.
Yes, Sean, clearly does, and ifyou do, obviously we're not
dogging you for that.
But even outside of just that,you look at that structure.
There are several Protestantchurches who maintain clergy or
bishops but they reject thatidea of a pope.
(07:18):
And even independent andnon-denominational churches
believe in self-governing, localcongregations with no external
hierarchy.
So they do have structure, theyhave pastors, but they have
nothing external sort of leadingthem.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And then I mean there also are the others that have
the pastors over it.
I know I'm interrupting here.
No, you're good, but do haveother structures set up, much
like your church South Heights.
Yeah, a lot of the assemblyChurch of Christ, churches like
that have the pastors, but thepastors actually have somebody
(07:58):
to answer to as well, right Inthose hierarchies.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, kind of accountable to something higher
up or always having somethingaccountable above them, but
which one of those really alignswith Scripture?
And I think that on the onsetof this episode, I think that
it's important to say thatthere's not really a Scripture
in the Bible that says if yourchurch does not have X, y, z,
(08:24):
then your church is going tohave destruction.
But there is pattern, I believe, in the Bible that we can all
glean from and pattern ourchurches after.
There's pattern that we canpattern our churches after.
So I want to look at thatbiblical model of church
leadership.
It mainly talks about model ofchurch leadership.
(08:49):
It mainly talks about there'sother things or offices, I guess
you can say in the Bible.
We could talk about evangelismor evangelists and we could talk
about apostles and prophets,but two of the main offices that
the Bible discusses are eldersand deacons.
If you look at Acts 14 and 23,you know for some Bible reading
for you guys at home, or 1Timothy 3, 8 through 13, you're
(09:09):
going to see those two roleselders and deacons.
Now, the term elder when youread that I think, at least in
my finite mind I think some oldguy you know, someone who has
wisdom and someone who is older.
Bless you, brother Sean.
Again, we are alive.
So when you think about elder,you use that term and that's
(09:31):
sort of what you think, but inreality in the Bible, when the
word elder or bishop or pastoris there, those words are
actually used interchangeably,meaning they refer to the same
role.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You know what I found out.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I'm interrupting again.
Yeah, you're good that a lot oftimes elder was interchangeable
, but there actually are someinstances so I'll get back up in
the mic.
There actually are someinstances where elder and pastor
meant two totally differentthings.
Yeah, so don't just read it andtake it at that.
Some of that may have a littlebit of studying.
(10:07):
That goes into it.
Yeah, much like pastors, or Ithink I said something about
pastors, I don't remember whereit was.
Now I want to say 2 Corinthians.
I don't know, but it talksabout pastors and teachers and
it kind of has them allconjoined in as one.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, but continue.
So I mean, between those tworoles you know, you think about
like pastorship and what does itmean to be a pastor and what
all does it take?
And I wanted to say here in thebeginning minutes of this
podcast is that it is notsomething to be taken lightly.
(10:48):
I don't believe it's notsomething that is just, hey man,
they needed a pastor, so I'mgoing to pastor.
I think that it takes aspecific calling to do that.
Now, people would disagree withme.
People say, well, anybody canbe the pastor.
Now, people would disagree withme.
People say, well, anybody canbe the pastor.
And I guess when I say calling,I'm not necessarily meaning
that everybody who's a pastor.
(11:09):
God just shined a light fromheaven and said you shall be a
pastor.
But I think that there'scharacteristics that God placed
in each of us and there arecharacteristics of being a
pastor or how to be a pastor.
You know, when you're an elderor a pastor, you have to be a
decision maker.
You have to be one that caresand prays for the sick, the
(11:31):
hurting, the ones who need yourhelp.
You have to be humble, you haveto have spirituality, you need
to be on fire for God, spiritualguardian, and then you need to
be a teacher excuse me or apreacher.
I think all of those role, allof those characteristics and all
of those things fit into therole of pastorship.
(11:54):
Now, if you want to be a pastorjust because you're a good
preacher, that's just not goodenough To me.
I don't think that that's goodenough to the church that you
potentially could be pastoring.
If you're someone who prays,well, that's just not
necessarily good enough.
I mean, it's a part of it butit's not good enough.
But if you can pray with others, have compassion for others, be
(12:16):
a decision maker, be someonewho is a spiritual guardian, be
a teacher and a preacher, if youshow all those characteristics
and display those things orcultivate and work on those
things, then that, if you'rewondering what God's calling is,
that could potentially besomething that God uses for you
(12:36):
to be a pastor.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Brother Sean, yeah, and I'd also add to that, you
know, on looking to be a pastor,just being humble and being a
servant.
You know, a lot of times Ishouldn't say a lot, I use that
phrase way too much, y'allforgive me.
A lot of times to him, a lot oftimes to me, there are times
(12:59):
where you know there are pastorsand people in leadership that
aren't humble and it's my way orthe highway that don't have the
servant's heart, that aren't upthere to be a servant for the
church and be the shepherd andlooking out, but they're up
there for control.
And when I look at pastors andwhen I look for one that I think
(13:25):
might would be a good pastor, Ilook for the servants.
Who has a servant?
Who's willing to go out thereand help, who's willing to go,
put the chairs up when it's timeand I'm not saying that
everybody has to, but you cantell the ones that are sincere
about it as well.
And I think that kind offollows over on the evangelists,
(13:48):
which that's another podcast.
I guess Paul was more or less amissionary slash evangelist and
he had more control over some ofthe churches and the pastors
did.
But you know, when I seeevangelists and preachers and
(14:09):
all these things.
I'm not looking for the flavorof the month, right.
I'm looking to see who's readyto lead.
Yeah, you're right, I'm lookingto see who's honest about it.
But I'm looking to see forsomebody who can teach me.
I'm looking for somebody who'swilling to serve the church as
(14:32):
well as lead the church.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I think that that's what's sort of wrong with a lot
of your—every one of these getus in trouble, man.
I'm telling you every timewe're live I'm like I'm going to
say something that gets us introuble.
But you know what?
It wouldn't be the first time.
I think a lot of your churchesthat are smaller or churches
that are seeking a pastor maybethey're larger I think that
that's where they make a mistakewhen they're going to pick a
(15:00):
pastor for their church, as Isaid, well, this dude preached
thousands of churches in, youknow, zimbabwe, africa.
Like that's not a good enoughreason to be a pastor.
This person went all over theUnited States and preached with,
you know, holy Ghost fire andhe was anointed and we want that
(15:20):
.
I'm sorry, but that's not agood enough reason to be a
pastor or to ask someone to beyour pastor.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It's great that they have the Holy Ghost.
It's great that they're on fire.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
It's great that they're preaching, but that
doesn't mean that.
Yeah, and if you look atqualifications, there are those
obviously within the Bible.
We're going to discuss some ofthose, but then there are also
those characteristics If youhave someone who is not humble
and they're just doing it to tobe the preacher and to get that
(15:51):
paycheck then we're going tohave.
He said paycheck as soon as Idid, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
That's crazy.
We're, we're, we're anointedtoday, but we should be, pastors
.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
If that is, profit is in part of being a pastor.
If that is, profit is in partof being a pastor and preacher,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
If that is the reason why you are wanting to be a
pastor, then you're doing it forthe wrong reasons.
You have to have a love forpeople and can I tell you
something real quick it has tobe there's got to be a little
bit of longevity with it as well.
You can't say I love thesepeople and then one year later,
not love those people.
(16:28):
There needs to be something inyou that is consistently growing
and if you love them, then youneed to ask God to continue for
that to blossom in your heartBecause you love them today, as
a pastor, you should love themin 10 years, no matter what they
do to you, no matter if theyhurt you, no matter if they hurt
your church or whatever, nomatter if they're not going
(16:51):
there anymore.
You should still love them andcare for them.
To believe that because you'vemastered the art of preaching,
that all of a sudden thatqualifies you to master the art
of pastoring is a grave mistakeI believe a lot of ministers
make.
There are qualifications.
There are things that peopleare soon to be or desire to be
(17:16):
pastors need.
They need to have a love andprayer I said it before for the
sick, but, as Sean said, theyneed to have humility.
It's not about me, it's aboutChrist.
It's not about me.
It's about what I can do tohelp reach someone for Christ,
(17:38):
and humility starts.
Humility is the foundation forall of that.
If you really want to pray forthe sick, you're going to have
to be humble of that.
If you really want to pray forthe sick, you're going to have
to be humble.
If you truly want to preach andteach lessons and messages that
are designed to not stir up thecrowd, not yell and scream and
(17:58):
run around the building, notdesigned to do any of those
things, but that are designed tohelp or potentially help people
, all of that's going to comefrom the heart of humility.
But the opposite of humilitysays I can preach good,
therefore I can pastor.
I can get people stirred up,therefore I'm doing a good job
(18:19):
as pastor.
No, people are people.
Monday, tuesday, wednesday,thursday, friday, saturday and
Sunday.
They have lives, they haveneeds that they need prayers for
.
They have troubles that theyneed counsel over.
They have different difficultcircumstances that they're
facing every day.
(18:40):
That you're waiting for Sundayto preach that sermon so that
they get help is just not goingto cut it.
They need help today and Ithink that we need to get that
in our head.
Brother Sean had no idea I wasgoing to harp on this as much
tonight, and I don't know if Idid either, but I think that if
you're desiring to pastor, youneed to keep that in mind,
(19:01):
brother Sean.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think if you're desiring any position, you need
to keep that in mind For sure,and I'm sure we'll get to a lot
of it.
Yeah, but as a preacher, as adeacon, as a song leader, as a
instrument player, as a Sundayschool teacher a lot of you all
(19:27):
know that I teach Sunday schoolfor the teenagers at my church
and Jonathan is the BrotherJonathan.
I'll say on this one timeBrother Jonathan is the youth
leader.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Is that your title?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Youth pastor.
Youth pastor.
Ooh, he got an upgrade.
I better start calling himbrother.
Is there a youth?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
pastor over here.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Doctor actually?
No, I ain't going that far.
But you know, jonathan can bethe youth pastor there and
without all these things that hejust talked about, you know
being humble, wanting to helpothers, and you know how long
(20:11):
would you give him Six months ayear before he's out Because
some kids in there were doingsomething and I don't know.
I mean, I know a few of hisyouth, so I'm not calling
anybody out, but you know mySunday school class.
How long would it have been ifI wasn't coming in there ready
(20:32):
to help and ready to serve.
I've been there several yearsnow.
There are Sundays, just likeeverybody else, where there's
only three of them in there.
There's also Sundays wherethere's 23 of them in there and
obviously we look forward to the23.
But having that heart for it is, for whatever position it is, I
(20:57):
think is very vital.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, and we're going to talk about congregants, but
having a heart for thosefoundational pillars of your
church as well, I know, I thinkthat we sort of we put them in a
way on the back burner becauseit's like, oh, they've been
going here forever and they cometo every service and it's like
we need to try to win these newpeople.
And I get it.
I want to win new people, Iwant to bring new converts, but
(21:24):
there are some pillars of yourchurch that sometimes they need
that teaching and preaching aswell, and sometimes they need,
you know, sometimes it's onlythose three there instead of the
23, like Sean was talking about.
But those, those same kids,youth, adults, they they need
that same amount of love andcare, because it's like, man, if
(21:46):
I had three youth and I have,I've had three or four youth in
our youth group before but I'mlike I'm going to preach and
teach the same, because whathave I changed?
One of their hearts and what dothey go on to win millions of
people for God, like, like I'mmaking a difference in just one
person.
And yeah, it it takes that, thatsort of commitment, that sort
(22:07):
of drive You're like.
Well, how do you know?
Because I've pastored a churchfor Brother Sean.
Isn't that crazy I always love.
My favorite thing ever is I'msorry.
Yeah, my favorite thing ever isfor individuals like.
I'll say something aboutpastors like, well, you don't
(22:27):
know anything about it.
I'm like, actually, I do knowjust a little bit about it.
I failed miserably, I feel like, but God was good and God was
merciful.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Do you need to apologize to the township?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
God was good and God wasmerciful.
No, no, no, no.
God was good and God wasmerciful.
But I do know, to an extent atleast, what it takes to do that.
Excuse me, I'm so sorry, I keepcoughing that loud noise,
hacking, that's me.
(23:01):
But outside of the elders,bishops, pastors, whatever you
want to call yourself, you know,bishop, youth pastor, john Rich
is what they typically call meNot really, but I want to talk
about deacons as well.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I got called the youth pastor, did you really
Like?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
a month ago I was like no, no, no Time out, not
even close.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And they were like well, you teach the teenager?
And I said Sunday schoolteacher.
Nobody said anything aboutyouth pastor.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Youth Sunday school teacher.
Thank you very much.
I want to talk about deacons aswell, and of course you guys
are.
I know everybody wants to talkabout the congregants and the
pastor, like I know that's whereit's at.
But there is a middle groundhere, and the Bible talks about
deacons and the Bible talksabout deacons.
So the origin of the termdeacon comes from the Greek word
(23:51):
diakonio, meaning through thedirt, and it refers to serving,
attending or ministering toothers.
So I'm putting this out there.
I need somebody to listen tothis.
Your pastor is not the only onethat needs to do the work.
Your pastor is not the only onethat needs to love people and
(24:13):
pray for people.
You also need to do that as adeacon, as a member or leader of
the board, and maybe yournickname is not deacon, maybe
your nickname is worship leader,or maybe your nickname is
Sunday school teacher, whateverit is.
Maybe, your title is worshipleader, or maybe your nickname
is Sunday school teacher.
Whatever it is, maybe yourtitle is benchwarmer, maybe your
(24:40):
title is benchwarmer yeah, butwhatever it is, your goal is
also to love the people.
I can't tell you how manychurches I've been to.
I can't tell you how manyplaces I've been where the
deacons were always behind thescenes.
You didn't even know who theywere.
They counted the money and tookup the offering and that was it
, and they made decisions in thechurch.
Listen, deacons, your role ismuch more than counting money.
(25:02):
Your role is much more thanmaking decisions in the church.
I feel very blessed.
I feel like a lot of you knowthe de making decisions in the
church.
I feel very blessed.
I feel like a lot of thedeacons in our church I am
biased and I'm going to brag Ifeel like a lot of them do put a
lot of work in and I see themmowing yards and see them
(25:22):
greeting and see them drivingthe golf cart to pick, you know,
congregants up to bring them tothe door.
I love all of that and I'm veryappreciative of that.
But you know, as the churchbody as a whole and different
churches all over the UnitedStates and all over the world.
As a deacon, it is yourresponsibility to also care for
(25:42):
people.
There are people that yourpastor is not always going to
get to, you know.
I think the pastor should try,obviously, but there are people
that come into a church servicewhile pastor's preaching and
they come in and sit down.
They need to be tended to, tobe loved for and cared for,
(26:03):
sometimes by the deacon.
Hey, how are you doing?
Go sit by them, tell them whoyou are when they leave, or get
up before pastor's donepreaching and they leave, tell
them thank you for coming Like,show that you care, because it
is just as important, I feellike, as it is for that pastor
to be up there preaching.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Brother Sean, one of our newest members at our church
I guess I can call him a membernow.
He's been coming for pastor tobe up there preaching.
Brother Sean, one of our newestmembers at our church I guess I
can call him a member now.
He's been coming for maybe acouple months now, as best he
can, but he showed up to churchand he got to know about us
because somebody took a actuallyit was a PB&J van.
(26:47):
I don't know if you've met thisgentleman yet, but Brother Hugh,
a guy in our church, amazingindividual.
If anybody knows, he may notwant to be associated with this
podcast.
No, he's awesome, Brother Hugh.
He's a phenomenal man, alwaysgiving, always helping.
But he took the mission or notthe mission but one of the PB&J
(27:10):
vans to get it fixed and took itto a guy to have him work on it
and they created or theyestablished that relationship
through that and that's whatJonathan's talking about here.
I'm not tearing my pastor downwhen I say this, but my pastor's
not going to come pick up oneof the vans for the outreach
(27:31):
works that we do and go take itto a mechanic.
I believe he would if he wasasked to, but that's not
necessarily his role right now.
Somebody else.
Yeah, I'll go get it, andthat's Brother Hugh.
Brother Hugh's going to do it.
And now we've got a gentlemancoming to our church that
(27:54):
probably I mean best I canunderstand probably never would
have went to our church.
He lives four miles, I think.
Four miles from the church.
Yeah, very close.
But he's there not because ofthe pastor, but because somebody
took a few extra minutes to go.
(28:16):
It was dropping a van off, butwhen they asked, hey, what is
this PB&J, tell me a little bitabout it, opened up an
opportunity for him to be ableto witness.
Yeah, and here comes the trainguys.
Yeah, the train making noise inthe background.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Go ahead unless you're just waiting on the train
making noise in the background.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Unless you're just waiting on the train.
No, I was waiting on it.
I thought you were done.
Yeah, no, I was just trying tojust throw it out there that you
know there are people thatwe'll never be able to reach,
and I've told my class that aswell.
Yeah, you know, they're inschool right now.
A lot of them are, and I'vetold them.
So there's people that I'llnever, may never, meet.
(28:57):
You know, if you go to a publicschool, or even if you go to a
private school, you're puttingyourself in situations that I
may never get to.
You know when's the next timethat I'll ever go to a public
school?
I mean, unless I'm called,never.
But you have an opportunity tobe part of that.
So just you know, even if youdon't hear us call out your role
(29:22):
or your title here, just knowthat it's still very important
and it all needs to point backto Christ.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, one of my favorite quotes is many hands
make light work.
Eyes, yeah, one of my favoritequotes is many hands make light
work.
And I think that all the pastordoes have several different
roles and the pastor does havecharacteristics that are, I
believe, required to be a pastor.
The pastor cannot do everythingJust like you have they just
(29:48):
can't.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You're required of things to be a Christian.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, well, and that's what I'm getting at,
sorry.
No you're good.
I mean, we're about to get tothat here in a moment when we
talk about congregants but Ithink that people expect pastors
to look.
If you're a growing church,you've got 15 people in there.
Your pastor does not need to bedoing everything.
(30:12):
You also need to be doing somethings.
You also need to be workingtogether.
If your pastor is the only onethat is praying with people, if
your pastor is the only onethat's visiting the sick and the
hurting, if your pastor is theonly one going door to door
telling people about Christ,inviting them to the church, if
your pastor is the only onetaking a bus to go pick up young
(30:35):
people, to bring them intoSunday school, if he or she is
the only one to do those things,then there's a problem.
You as a congregant, andespecially you as a deacon,
should be doing those samethings.
I wanted to talk aboutdifferent roles or
(30:57):
characteristics that deaconsshould have as well, and then I
want to talk about congregants.
I think that's really important.
Obviously, as a deacon, youshould have a biblical
background.
You should have the Bible tellsus.
You should be blameless, youshould have good character, you
should have a faithful spouse.
In that, you are a goodhousehold manager.
(31:18):
You should be honest,respectful, not greedy, not
addicted to alcohol.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
No, that's not what it says.
I think it says not given tomuch wine, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, not given to much wine.
Yeah, so a little bit, a littlebit.
It's this guy.
Yeah, not given to much wine.
Yeah, so a little bit, a littlebit.
It's this guy.
Yeah, we are alive, brother,we're going to get kicked off so
fast?
No, but I'm assuming Sean'sjoking here.
Okay, I can't ask him and pause.
Yeah, we don't know.
You haven't been to my house ina couple years, but there are
(31:51):
qualifications for a deacon andI think that we just had one
viewer leave.
Yeah, we did, didn't we?
It needs to be said and itneeds to be shown that deacons
are I'm not going to say just asor more or little or less than
pastors, but they have a hugeresponsibility as well within
(32:12):
the church, especially whendoing the work of God.
I wanted to move on real quick.
There's so many differentlittle things that we could talk
about, and I've got scripturefor a lot of it.
But I think that it's alsoimportant to look at the purpose
of the church as a church bodyand to look at the purpose of
(32:33):
congregants and those who attendthe church, and especially
those who are saved, who believein Christ, who are followers of
Christ.
It's important as a church tofellowship among believers.
It's important as a church topray.
Churches don't pray anymore.
I know that sounds verymatter-of-fact and it also
(33:00):
sounds very blanketstatement-ish, but I am willing
to bet that, percentage-wise,it's going to show that and I'm
sure there are studies out there.
But it's going to show thatchurches just don't pray, not,
hey.
They don't come to prayermeeting, not hey.
They don't come to the altarafter we're done preaching, but
(33:22):
they just don't pray.
They have no prayer life in thechurch, but they specifically
don't have prayer life outsideof the church, and I think that
that's a problem, Brother Sean.
I mean, it is very and vitallyimportant.
It is the lifeblood thatconnects you to God and allows
God to speak to you and, attimes, speak through you.
(33:44):
So developing a prayer life asa church member is important
Proclaiming the gospel, helpingindividuals and ministering to
individuals in need.
I just mentioned that.
I'm going to mention it again.
If your pastor is the only oneproclaiming the gospel, you are
not being a follower of Christ.
(34:06):
Is it James 2 and 3?
It's James 1 and 27.
I don't know where I got 2 and3?
It's James 1 and 27.
If pastors are, I don't knowwhere I got 2 and 3 from.
I don't know if I think that'sthe same one.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
that you're thinking of.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
If pastors Is it right, is it the same one?
No, it's a different one.
That one was way off.
We won't talk about the one hejust pulled up.
If pastors are the only oneministering to those in need,
then you are not followingChrist.
If pastors are the only onethat are praying, you are not
(34:39):
following Christ.
Christ was a man who prayed.
Christ was a man who proclaimedthe good news.
Christ was a man who ministeredthose who were in need.
The Bible tells us in 1 James,1 and 27,.
Or do you have that, or is itsomething else?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Well, I did have it, and now my phone's.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
He's all over the place.
Now the Bible tells us and Seanwill read it in James 1, 27,.
This is what it says.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the
Father.
Is this to visit the fatherlessand widows in their reflection
and to keep himself unspottedfrom the world?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
And I think that the Bible says that, but that is
portrayed through Jesus.
Through Jesus, you cannot tellme that you belong to a strong
church if your church does notcare for the orphan and the
widow and the needy and thehomeless and the addicted and
(35:45):
the children who areimpoverished.
You can't tell me that yourchurch is on fire for God if on
Sunday mornings and Sundaynights and Wednesday nights you
have shout-down services butMonday, tuesday, wednesday,
thursday, friday and Saturday,there is no fruit, there is no
helping those who are poor,there is no helping those that
(36:09):
are in need.
You do not have a church.
You have something that is adisplay.
You have something that istrying to portray a church.
But a true church is notnecessarily one that has a
shout-down service.
Every time they have a service,it is one that, when God
(36:30):
ministers to you, I take thatbread that he ministers to me
and I share that bread withthose who need ministering to as
well.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Brother Sean, and I would encourage I mean I
encourage reading the Bible, butI would encourage those that
are maybe wanting to study thisa little more or have questions
about themselves in the churchto go read James 1.
You know, we read the very lastscripture, but all throughout
(37:02):
James, chapter 1, it's beingdoers upholding perfect law of
liberty.
Bridling not your tongue, Imean deceiving your heart, I
mean.
It just goes on and on and on.
So it's a very powerful chapterfor that.
(37:23):
But you know, as a church memberand I've heard this before and
I'm sure a lot of you have butjust because you're a quote lay
member or bench warmer, that'sno reason to sit back and just
hold on.
You know, as, as Jonathan wassaying, it's, we all have a call
to action.
(37:43):
You know whether it's.
You know, whatever the case maybe, I mean we have some people
that clean our sanctuary.
I believe they do it once aweek.
I could be wrong, but they dothat to be help and it seems so
(38:06):
small.
But I guarantee if they didn'tdo it for a couple weeks, you
would find some cereal under mybench, because one of my kids
ended up with something, andthere'd be Kleenexes all
scattered around and the trashcans would start overflowing and
(38:29):
they're behind the scenes.
You never know that they'rethere.
You know they may come on aThursday night or Friday night
or whatever it is, but it'ssomething that's done to help
with the kingdom and I commendthose that even do those kind of
things that seem to gounthanked.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I'm kind of going off here, but if you do, if you run
sound, trust me, I know that'sa pretty thankless job.
I used to do it.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
The only time you're paid attention to when you run
sound is when it's bad yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Or they're singing the chorus and you're still on
the first verse.
Right, everybody looks back atyou and you're still on the
first verse.
Right right, right.
Everybody looks back at you.
You're looking down at yourphone.
Change it.
But you know, I encourage youto stay with it, keep holding on
, yeah, and continue to do thosethings, because, even if man
doesn't always see it, god doesyeah.
(39:31):
Those things, because, even ifman doesn't always see it, god
does yeah, and that's part ofbeing the body of Christ.
If you're doing those things,you may not at that moment, you
may not be preaching the gospel,or proclaiming the gospel, as
you said, or equipping others tolive holy, or doing
fellowshipping among believers,any of those things, but you're
(39:54):
still being a part of the bodyof Christ and that is something
that is very commendable.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, and I think we've said it a million times
probably on this podcast ingeneral over the span of many,
many episodes.
But I think it's commendablewhen you make it up in your mind
that I'm going to work forChrist, regardless of if I get
the credit or regardless of ifI'm seen, but I'm going to do
(40:20):
something.
You know, if, if you're most ofyou, you're driving think about
driving a car and it's like allyou do is you get in, you you
turn the ignition on and you goand then, um, the moment,
brother Sean and I were actuallyat B-dubs a couple of weeks ago
when we we got out to, uh, wegot out to my car and we went to
(40:44):
go start it and it didn't startand I was like man, so open the
hood and my battery cable waswas loose, really bad, and, um,
I didn't think about any of thatuntil I opened the hood and my
battery cable was loose, reallybad, and I didn't think about
any of that until I opened thehood and it's like whoa, what's
going on there?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Until it won't start.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Until it won't start.
Yeah, and most of you are thesame way.
You get in the car and youstart the car and you drive
wherever and it's untilsomething goes wrong or you have
to replace something that youdon't realize.
You open that hood, hood andyou see all of these big
mechanical pieces and then yousee all of these really, really
little mechanical pieces and youwould think that that little
(41:22):
mechanical piece, like a sparkplug, like that, that tall,
maybe you just screw it in.
That's how tall it is.
It's not that big a deal andit's on top of an engine that's
like this big.
You know bigger.
We're not mechanically inclined.
Well, some of them are bigger,but some of them aren't that big
.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
But what I'm saying is I think I'm going to say this
and then you can keep going.
I think of a gasket.
Yeah, I mean, you talk aboutspark plugs, but when you
started talking, I thought of agasket.
Yeah, I mean, they're less thana 16-inch thick, but without
that, yeah, oh, you got a lot oftrouble.
(42:01):
Yeah, go ahead, keep going.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
A lot of trouble.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
You said the smallest , tiny and I thought of this
Just minuscule piece of.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah Well, you open that up and you see that and
realize that even that littlegasket, that little spark plug,
they serve a huge, huge, hugepurpose.
They're not really seen, you'vegot to dig to get to them, but
they serve a huge purpose.
Sometimes the work that you'redoing for God is not going to be
(42:37):
magnified in front of everybodyelse.
Sometimes it's not going to bebehind a pulpit preaching to
thousands of people and seeingthousands of souls come to the
altar.
It's not going to be that.
Sometimes it's going to besomething small, like cleaning.
Sometimes it's going to bewhich, by the way, it's not
small to clean.
I have done cleaning the churchbefore.
I hated it.
I would do it again if pastorasked me.
Not a fan of it, pastor, ifyou're watching.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Hey, pastor Sam Jonathan just volunteered yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
It is not a small thing, but it could be something
as little as sending a textmessage to a new church member,
or sending a text message tosomeone who used to come to
church there.
Say I'm praying for you.
Say, how are you doing?
Hey, do you want to meet up forlunch later?
You think that no one else seesthat, and because no one else
(43:25):
sees that, that means that it'snot helping this big machine go,
and that's not true.
We need those little things.
We need those little things.
We need those littleconversations, we need those
small prayers.
We need those small moments tohelp build the kingdom of God,
just as much as we need thatperson behind the pulpit
preaching, just as much as weneed that person in a place of
(43:46):
leadership, like a deacon or anelder.
We need the church as well,brother Sean.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
And that happens inside the church and outside of
the church.
He's talking about those smallthings where it doesn't seem
like you're recognized.
That small thing could beplease and thank you.
Yeah, yeah, to your waiter.
(44:15):
I think that a lot of thatstuff we've lost and I still
think, respected it should betaught and it should be
portrayed, especially byChristians.
Yeah, you know, this issomething that that again, this
is something that we've talkedabout several times when you're
(44:36):
hateful, or maybe not evenhateful, just not grateful and
not just ungrateful, thankfulnot expressing then they see
that they recognize those kindof things and being that outside
(44:58):
of the church can make a hugedifference.
Again, go back to Brother Hugh.
He wasn't in the church housewhen all that went down.
Is he one of the first peoplethat goes up and shakes your
hand if you're a visitor thatcomes in?
Yes, he is, and he'll ask youwhat your name is and he'll
(45:19):
shake all your kids' hands andask how old they are and what
they like and what theirfavorite color is.
He used to be my neighbor andsometimes it would irritate me
because as soon as he would pullup in the driveway, my kids
would run out the door withouteven telling me, and they would
come back with a Popsicle.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm like where'dyou get it, the Popsicle guy?
Yeah, the Popsicle guy.
They didn't even know it wasBrother Hugh, but they found out
(45:43):
.
He found out what theirfavorite color was, and I
promise you was, and I promiseyou he had 150 plus popsicles in
his freezer.
But he would pull up and he'dsee the kids running over there
and he'd go out there and tellthem you want a pink one, you
(46:03):
want a blue one, right?
Okay, just a minute.
And he'd run in the house andhe would dig through the fridge
I guarantee it would notsurprise me one bit if he would
ever went in there and couldn'tfind the color, so went and
bought a new box of them, eventhough there was still a dozen
of them left, so those kidscould have a pink one and a blue
one, or whatever their colorsare, but it doesn't matter.
(46:24):
Inside the church, outside ofthe church, that's Brother Hugh,
and you'll know exactly who heis, because he's the same and
he's going to treat everybodythe same.
He's going to show the love ofChrist, doesn't matter, pb&j
walking down the street, runninginto a Walmart, in the church
house, doesn't matter.
That's Brother Hugh and that'swhat we all need to be.
I strive to be like BrotherHugh.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I think we should end with this question, unless you
have more.
You interrupt me, but with thisquestion of like, what is your
persona inside the church versusoutside of the church?
You know what is your, what areyour characteristics?
Are they Christ-like?
Are they loving?
Are they, are they kind?
You play an important role as apastor.
You play an important role as adeacon and as apostle and as a
prophet.
You play an important role as adeacon and as an apostle and as
a prophet.
You play an important role asthese things in the kingdom of
(47:16):
God.
But just as a simple congregant, as someone who just goes,
you're like I just go to church,that's it.
I'm a nobody.
You know what.
You're somebody for God.
You can do something for God,but think about that Everybody
has somebody watching them.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, absolutely Everybody does.
Even if you don't think thatyou do, somebody is watching you
.
Yes, I've got an 8-year-old, a6-year-old, a 4-year-old and a
1-year-old, and my 8-year-olddaughter and my 6-year-old son
for sure.
See some teenagers some 12, 13,14, 15-year-olds walk in the
(47:58):
church.
My son will be like Dad, can Igo sit by?
So-and-so, like he's not hereyet.
Yeah, he is.
I just saw him walk in.
I'm going to go sit by him.
They sit up front.
Can I go sit with them whenthey sing for songs?
Absolutely, you can.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Everybody has somebody watching them.
Go ahead, no, it's so true.
And everybody has someone thatlooks up to them, you know, and
wants to pattern their lifeafter them sometimes.
So just think of that, rememberthat and are you being
Christ-like inside and outsideof the church?
I think that that will concludeour episode.
I didn't see any comments orquestions on there.
(48:44):
We appreciate everyone who'sbeen watching and keeping up.
Again.
I'm going to mention this onemore time, but here on Monday,
February the 10th, I'm going toput that up on the screen here.
But Monday, February the 10th,at 7 pm Central Standard Time,
(49:05):
we are going to have a debatebetween Nathan Mayo of Berean
Holiness and Luke Beetz, who isa holiness evangelist and a
campus preacher.
They're going to be debatingabout doctrine, standards and
the gospel.
If you want to know what theresolution is for that debate,
go to our Facebook page bysearching the Every Day that's
(49:28):
the Every Day Christian Podcastand go look at the last few
posts that we put on there.
We talk about that.
If you have a question for thatdebate, if you're wondering
what it means, if you have aburning question that you've
thought of that no one reallyhas given you the correct answer
for, or at least not a biblicalor clear, concise answer for
(49:54):
that you would like to submit tothese debaters?
Please comment below or send usa direct message.
There's been several that havebravely commented on the post
themselves and several who havebravely messaged just as well.
So if you would like to have aquestion submitted for that, let
(50:15):
me rephrase not rephrase, butlet me re-say that If you would
like a question, not I'm givinga comment on what I feel about
these two people, not I'm givingmy opinion on this subject,
none of that.
If you have a question for thedebaters, please, please, please
(50:36):
, reach out to us, and you haveuntil Friday to do so.
Brother Sean, do you haveanything to add to that?
No, sir, Praise God.
Well, I want to thank everybodywho has listened in and joined
us, and we pray that you have awonderful evening and an
everyday Christian Podcast isout.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
God bless, thank you, thank you.
Proclaiming the gospel, helping individuals and
ministering to individuals inneed.
I just mentioned that.
I'm going to mention it again.
If your pastor is the only oneproclaiming the gospel, you are
not being a follower of Christ.
You're listening to theEveryday Christian Podcast,
(00:23):
where we apply scripturalprinciples to everyday Christian
lives.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I'm John Rich and I'm Sean Slogin.
Y'all have to forgive me.
I just found out this was livewe are doing a live episode.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
It's good to be with you all.
We were going to try to do anepisode on Monday or a live
episode on Monday and I got sickwith the bubonic plague or
something.
I'm not really sure what it isBird flu.
Yeah, bird flu, rat lungwormdisease, I don't know All of the
above had sort of a difficulttime pretty much just laying in
(00:57):
bed for like four days withfever and coughing and all that
mess, and I know some of you whoare listening and some friends
of ours have experienced thesame thing.
So we pray for you that that,uh, you get healed quickly.
It was probably one of theworst, worst sicknesses I think
my family as a whole has beenthrough uh, but we're here and
(01:20):
now he's here doing a podcastright next to me telling me.
He still doesn't feel goodcoughing, all, overoughing, all
over Sean the entire episode.
So if I do cough or clear mythroat, that is why Don't go
with me to eat tonightafterwards.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
We have a tradition.
We have a tradition where we goeat afterwards and this guy
won't do it.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
And I told him.
I said and you guys can hold meto that, while you're listening
to this podcast, podcast thatI'm going to go home and go to
bed right after this.
So thankful for everybody thathas joined us that's listened in
, thankful for the last episode.
I think we had severallisteners' comments, questions
on there.
Really awesome to see there isan episode we'll be doing two
(02:03):
weeks Actually it will be a weekfrom'll be doing two weeks.
Actually, it will be a week fromMonday.
This coming Monday we will bedoing an episode on a debate
between Nathan Mayo of Berean,holiness, and then Holiness
Evangelist Luke Beetz, aboutdoctrine standards and the
(02:24):
gospel.
You will not want to miss thatdebate.
It is going to be here at 7 pmon February the 10th, that is, 7
pm Central Standard Time.
On February the 10th.
It is going to be the debate ofthe century.
I keep saying that.
I have no idea if that'saccurate, but it's really
exciting.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Four people are going to listen.
I have no idea if that'saccurate, but it's really
exciting.
Four people are going to listen.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
No, we're excited for it.
Yes, very excited and ready tosee what God has in store there.
Let me hide that Christianpodcast.
So, yeah, if you have anyquestions for that, I'll that
(03:08):
you want the debaters to discussor answer during the debate?
Please message us or put acomment in the video below or
any.
I think we've had several postson Facebook that we have had on
there for people to leavecomments.
If you do have a questionduring that or for that debate,
please leave us a comment andquestion and we will submit
those for you.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yes, and we do understand that doing debates
like this is not always fun.
It's fun for us.
Some people act like it's notfun.
I'll put it that way.
We've been getting some verypositive feedback, some not so
much.
We want everybody to understandthis, though.
We're not doing this podcast totear one side or the other down.
(03:49):
We're not doing it to try tomake anybody look like fools.
We're doing it to try to helpand encourage other people.
Yeah, if, for whatever reason,this comes up and you hear
something from Nathan Mayo andyou're like, hey, that was
really good, great, that's whatwe want.
If you hear something greatfrom Luke Beetz awesome, that's
(04:15):
what we want.
We're doing these things tohelp people, try to encourage
open communication, open debates, open communication, open
debates.
Some feedback we've beengetting has been kind of
questioning and targeting others.
I'm just going to go ahead andsay it.
I didn't tell him I was goingto say this and that's not what
(04:38):
this is about.
We're not doing it to targetand take anybody down.
We're doing it to try toencourage people to dig deeper,
find answers, get help, and thisis one way we're doing it.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, and it opens dialogue.
It opens the yes, the feedbackloop.
It opens communication betweenparties.
I think it it.
You know we've had a lot of,like you said, we've had a lot
of opposition, but we obviouslydon't really care.
We're still going on with it.
So I hope you all are excitedabout it at least as much as we
(05:08):
are.
I wanted to introduce thisepisode.
It is sort of a differentepisode because we're showing
the biblical role of the church.
We're showing different officesin the church.
We're showing how they shouldbe, how congregants should be,
what that looks like, is itauthoritative, is there a
(05:30):
hierarchy, etc.
So we're going to talk aboutthat a little bit and obviously,
during the episode we are live.
If you have a question duringthe episode or you have a
comment during the episode thatyou would like for us to read,
then please.
You know, obviously, if it'sG-rated, we've had a couple of
non-so G-rated ones, but we cango from there.
(05:53):
So I wanted to first start offwith talking about the church
hierarchy and talking about thatdefinition.
You know, if you think aboutchurch hierarchy, did we even do
our intro right?
I think yeah.
Well, I don't think we did.
We are talking about thebiblical order of the church.
We did.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Welcome back to the Everyday Christian Podcast.
This is Jonathan Rich, I'm SeanSlogan, and today we're going
to be talking about the biblicalorder of the church.
We did yes.
There you go, I think we missedthat.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Praise God.
We touched on it, but didn'tquite handle that at the
beginning, because I threw Seanoff by saying 10 seconds before
hey, we're doing a live episode.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I'm over here like trying to get myself prepped and
make sure my lines are allright, and then I'm like wait,
we're doing live, and then wetotally lost it.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, it was over for him.
If you think about hierarchywithin a church, the first thing
I myself think of is the Romanchurch.
You know Roman Catholic churchyou think about like priests and
bishops and archbishops andcardinals and the Pope.
Obviously, that's just anexample.
I don't celebrate or worshipthe Pope or look up to him in
(06:57):
any way.
I don't look up to archbishopsand et cetera.
Yes, Sean, clearly does, and ifyou do, obviously we're not
dogging you for that.
But even outside of just that,you look at that structure.
There are several Protestantchurches who maintain clergy or
bishops but they reject thatidea of a pope.
(07:18):
And even independent andnon-denominational churches
believe in self-governing, localcongregations with no external
hierarchy.
So they do have structure, theyhave pastors, but they have
nothing external sort of leadingthem.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And then I mean there also are the others that have
the pastors over it.
I know I'm interrupting here.
No, you're good, but do haveother structures set up, much
like your church South Heights.
Yeah, a lot of the assemblyChurch of Christ, churches like
that have the pastors, but thepastors actually have somebody
(07:58):
to answer to as well, right Inthose hierarchies.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, kind of accountable to something higher
up or always having somethingaccountable above them, but
which one of those really alignswith Scripture?
And I think that on the onsetof this episode, I think that
it's important to say thatthere's not really a Scripture
in the Bible that says if yourchurch does not have X, y, z,
(08:24):
then your church is going tohave destruction.
But there is pattern, I believe, in the Bible that we can all
glean from and pattern ourchurches after.
There's pattern that we canpattern our churches after.
So I want to look at thatbiblical model of church
leadership.
It mainly talks about model ofchurch leadership.
(08:49):
It mainly talks about there'sother things or offices, I guess
you can say in the Bible.
We could talk about evangelismor evangelists and we could talk
about apostles and prophets,but two of the main offices that
the Bible discusses are eldersand deacons.
If you look at Acts 14 and 23,you know for some Bible reading
for you guys at home, or 1Timothy 3, 8 through 13, you're
(09:09):
going to see those two roleselders and deacons.
Now, the term elder when youread that I think, at least in
my finite mind I think some oldguy you know, someone who has
wisdom and someone who is older.
Bless you, brother Sean.
Again, we are alive.
So when you think about elder,you use that term and that's
(09:31):
sort of what you think, but inreality in the Bible, when the
word elder or bishop or pastoris there, those words are
actually used interchangeably,meaning they refer to the same
role.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
You know what I found out.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I'm interrupting again.
Yeah, you're good that a lot oftimes elder was interchangeable
, but there actually are someinstances so I'll get back up in
the mic.
There actually are someinstances where elder and pastor
meant two totally differentthings.
Yeah, so don't just read it andtake it at that.
Some of that may have a littlebit of studying.
(10:07):
That goes into it.
Yeah, much like pastors, or Ithink I said something about
pastors, I don't remember whereit was.
Now I want to say 2 Corinthians.
I don't know, but it talksabout pastors and teachers and
it kind of has them allconjoined in as one.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, yeah, but continue.
So I mean, between those tworoles you know, you think about
like pastorship and what does itmean to be a pastor and what
all does it take?
And I wanted to say here in thebeginning minutes of this
podcast is that it is notsomething to be taken lightly.
(10:48):
I don't believe it's notsomething that is just, hey man,
they needed a pastor, so I'mgoing to pastor.
I think that it takes aspecific calling to do that.
Now, people would disagree withme.
People say, well, anybody canbe the pastor.
Now, people would disagree withme.
People say, well, anybody canbe the pastor.
And I guess when I say calling,I'm not necessarily meaning
that everybody who's a pastor.
(11:09):
God just shined a light fromheaven and said you shall be a
pastor.
But I think that there'scharacteristics that God placed
in each of us and there arecharacteristics of being a
pastor or how to be a pastor.
You know, when you're an elderor a pastor, you have to be a
decision maker.
You have to be one that caresand prays for the sick, the
(11:31):
hurting, the ones who need yourhelp.
You have to be humble, you haveto have spirituality, you need
to be on fire for God, spiritualguardian, and then you need to
be a teacher excuse me or apreacher.
I think all of those role, allof those characteristics and all
of those things fit into therole of pastorship.
(11:54):
Now, if you want to be a pastorjust because you're a good
preacher, that's just not goodenough To me.
I don't think that that's goodenough to the church that you
potentially could be pastoring.
If you're someone who prays,well, that's just not
necessarily good enough.
I mean, it's a part of it butit's not good enough.
But if you can pray with others, have compassion for others, be
(12:16):
a decision maker, be someonewho is a spiritual guardian, be
a teacher and a preacher, if youshow all those characteristics
and display those things orcultivate and work on those
things, then that, if you'rewondering what God's calling is,
that could potentially besomething that God uses for you
(12:36):
to be a pastor.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Brother Sean, yeah, and I'd also add to that, you
know, on looking to be a pastor,just being humble and being a
servant.
You know, a lot of times Ishouldn't say a lot, I use that
phrase way too much, y'allforgive me.
A lot of times to him, a lot oftimes to me, there are times
(12:59):
where you know there are pastorsand people in leadership that
aren't humble and it's my way orthe highway that don't have the
servant's heart, that aren't upthere to be a servant for the
church and be the shepherd andlooking out, but they're up
there for control.
And when I look at pastors andwhen I look for one that I think
(13:25):
might would be a good pastor, Ilook for the servants.
Who has a servant?
Who's willing to go out thereand help, who's willing to go,
put the chairs up when it's timeand I'm not saying that
everybody has to, but you cantell the ones that are sincere
about it as well.
And I think that kind offollows over on the evangelists,
(13:48):
which that's another podcast.
I guess Paul was more or less amissionary slash evangelist and
he had more control over some ofthe churches and the pastors
did.
But you know, when I seeevangelists and preachers and
(14:09):
all these things.
I'm not looking for the flavorof the month, right.
I'm looking to see who's readyto lead.
Yeah, you're right, I'm lookingto see who's honest about it.
But I'm looking to see forsomebody who can teach me.
I'm looking for somebody who'swilling to serve the church as
(14:32):
well as lead the church.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I think that that's what's sort of wrong with a lot
of your—every one of these getus in trouble, man.
I'm telling you every timewe're live I'm like I'm going to
say something that gets us introuble.
But you know what?
It wouldn't be the first time.
I think a lot of your churchesthat are smaller or churches
that are seeking a pastor maybethey're larger I think that
that's where they make a mistakewhen they're going to pick a
(15:00):
pastor for their church, as Isaid, well, this dude preached
thousands of churches in, youknow, zimbabwe, africa.
Like that's not a good enoughreason to be a pastor.
This person went all over theUnited States and preached with,
you know, holy Ghost fire andhe was anointed and we want that
(15:20):
.
I'm sorry, but that's not agood enough reason to be a
pastor or to ask someone to beyour pastor.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It's great that they have the Holy Ghost.
It's great that they're on fire.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
It's great that they're preaching, but that
doesn't mean that.
Yeah, and if you look atqualifications, there are those
obviously within the Bible.
We're going to discuss some ofthose, but then there are also
those characteristics If youhave someone who is not humble
and they're just doing it to tobe the preacher and to get that
(15:51):
paycheck then we're going tohave.
He said paycheck as soon as Idid, didn't you?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That's crazy.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
That's crazy.
We're, we're, we're anointedtoday, but we should be, pastors
.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
If that is, profit is in part of being a pastor.
If that is, profit is in partof being a pastor and preacher,
isn't it?
Speaker 1 (16:07):
If that is the reason why you are wanting to be a
pastor, then you're doing it forthe wrong reasons.
You have to have a love forpeople and can I tell you
something real quick it has tobe there's got to be a little
bit of longevity with it as well.
You can't say I love thesepeople and then one year later,
not love those people.
(16:28):
There needs to be something inyou that is consistently growing
and if you love them, then youneed to ask God to continue for
that to blossom in your heartBecause you love them today, as
a pastor, you should love themin 10 years, no matter what they
do to you, no matter if theyhurt you, no matter if they hurt
your church or whatever, nomatter if they're not going
(16:51):
there anymore.
You should still love them andcare for them.
To believe that because you'vemastered the art of preaching,
that all of a sudden thatqualifies you to master the art
of pastoring is a grave mistakeI believe a lot of ministers
make.
There are qualifications.
There are things that peopleare soon to be or desire to be
(17:16):
pastors need.
They need to have a love andprayer I said it before for the
sick, but, as Sean said, theyneed to have humility.
It's not about me, it's aboutChrist.
It's not about me.
It's about what I can do tohelp reach someone for Christ,
(17:38):
and humility starts.
Humility is the foundation forall of that.
If you really want to pray forthe sick, you're going to have
to be humble of that.
If you really want to pray forthe sick, you're going to have
to be humble.
If you truly want to preach andteach lessons and messages that
are designed to not stir up thecrowd, not yell and scream and
(17:58):
run around the building, notdesigned to do any of those
things, but that are designed tohelp or potentially help people
, all of that's going to comefrom the heart of humility.
But the opposite of humilitysays I can preach good,
therefore I can pastor.
I can get people stirred up,therefore I'm doing a good job
(18:19):
as pastor.
No, people are people.
Monday, tuesday, wednesday,thursday, friday, saturday and
Sunday.
They have lives, they haveneeds that they need prayers for
.
They have troubles that theyneed counsel over.
They have different difficultcircumstances that they're
facing every day.
(18:40):
That you're waiting for Sundayto preach that sermon so that
they get help is just not goingto cut it.
They need help today and Ithink that we need to get that
in our head.
Brother Sean had no idea I wasgoing to harp on this as much
tonight, and I don't know if Idid either, but I think that if
you're desiring to pastor, youneed to keep that in mind,
(19:01):
brother Sean.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think if you're desiring any position, you need
to keep that in mind For sure,and I'm sure we'll get to a lot
of it.
Yeah, but as a preacher, as adeacon, as a song leader, as a
instrument player, as a Sundayschool teacher a lot of you all
(19:27):
know that I teach Sunday schoolfor the teenagers at my church
and Jonathan is the BrotherJonathan.
I'll say on this one timeBrother Jonathan is the youth
leader.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Is that your title?
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Youth pastor.
Youth pastor.
Ooh, he got an upgrade.
I better start calling himbrother.
Is there a youth?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
pastor over here.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Doctor actually?
No, I ain't going that far.
But you know, jonathan can bethe youth pastor there and
without all these things that hejust talked about, you know
being humble, wanting to helpothers, and you know how long
(20:11):
would you give him Six months ayear before he's out Because
some kids in there were doingsomething and I don't know.
I mean, I know a few of hisyouth, so I'm not calling
anybody out, but you know mySunday school class.
How long would it have been ifI wasn't coming in there ready
(20:32):
to help and ready to serve.
I've been there several yearsnow.
There are Sundays, just likeeverybody else, where there's
only three of them in there.
There's also Sundays wherethere's 23 of them in there and
obviously we look forward to the23.
But having that heart for it is, for whatever position it is, I
(20:57):
think is very vital.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Yeah, and we're going to talk about congregants, but
having a heart for thosefoundational pillars of your
church as well, I know, I thinkthat we sort of we put them in a
way on the back burner becauseit's like, oh, they've been
going here forever and they cometo every service and it's like
we need to try to win these newpeople.
And I get it.
I want to win new people, Iwant to bring new converts, but
(21:24):
there are some pillars of yourchurch that sometimes they need
that teaching and preaching aswell, and sometimes they need,
you know, sometimes it's onlythose three there instead of the
23, like Sean was talking about.
But those, those same kids,youth, adults, they they need
that same amount of love andcare, because it's like, man, if
(21:46):
I had three youth and I have,I've had three or four youth in
our youth group before but I'mlike I'm going to preach and
teach the same, because whathave I changed?
One of their hearts and what dothey go on to win millions of
people for God, like, like I'mmaking a difference in just one
person.
And yeah, it it takes that, thatsort of commitment, that sort
(22:07):
of drive You're like.
Well, how do you know?
Because I've pastored a churchfor Brother Sean.
Isn't that crazy I always love.
My favorite thing ever is I'msorry.
Yeah, my favorite thing ever isfor individuals like.
I'll say something aboutpastors like, well, you don't
(22:27):
know anything about it.
I'm like, actually, I do knowjust a little bit about it.
I failed miserably, I feel like, but God was good and God was
merciful.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
Do you need to apologize to the township?
Speaker 1 (22:40):
Yes, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
God was good and God wasmerciful.
No, no, no, no.
God was good and God wasmerciful.
But I do know, to an extent atleast, what it takes to do that.
Excuse me, I'm so sorry, I keepcoughing that loud noise,
hacking, that's me.
(23:01):
But outside of the elders,bishops, pastors, whatever you
want to call yourself, you know,bishop, youth pastor, john Rich
is what they typically call meNot really, but I want to talk
about deacons as well.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
I got called the youth pastor, did you really
Like?
Speaker 1 (23:18):
a month ago I was like no, no, no Time out, not
even close.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
And they were like well, you teach the teenager?
And I said Sunday schoolteacher.
Nobody said anything aboutyouth pastor.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
Youth Sunday school teacher.
Thank you very much.
I want to talk about deacons aswell, and of course you guys
are.
I know everybody wants to talkabout the congregants and the
pastor, like I know that's whereit's at.
But there is a middle groundhere, and the Bible talks about
deacons and the Bible talksabout deacons.
So the origin of the termdeacon comes from the Greek word
(23:51):
diakonio, meaning through thedirt, and it refers to serving,
attending or ministering toothers.
So I'm putting this out there.
I need somebody to listen tothis.
Your pastor is not the only onethat needs to do the work.
Your pastor is not the only onethat needs to love people and
(24:13):
pray for people.
You also need to do that as adeacon, as a member or leader of
the board, and maybe yournickname is not deacon, maybe
your nickname is worship leader,or maybe your nickname is
Sunday school teacher, whateverit is.
Maybe, your title is worshipleader, or maybe your nickname
is Sunday school teacher.
Whatever it is, maybe yourtitle is benchwarmer, maybe your
(24:40):
title is benchwarmer yeah, butwhatever it is, your goal is
also to love the people.
I can't tell you how manychurches I've been to.
I can't tell you how manyplaces I've been where the
deacons were always behind thescenes.
You didn't even know who theywere.
They counted the money and tookup the offering and that was it
, and they made decisions in thechurch.
Listen, deacons, your role ismuch more than counting money.
(25:02):
Your role is much more thanmaking decisions in the church.
I feel very blessed.
I feel like a lot of you knowthe de making decisions in the
church.
I feel very blessed.
I feel like a lot of thedeacons in our church I am
biased and I'm going to brag Ifeel like a lot of them do put a
lot of work in and I see themmowing yards and see them
(25:22):
greeting and see them drivingthe golf cart to pick, you know,
congregants up to bring them tothe door.
I love all of that and I'm veryappreciative of that.
But you know, as the churchbody as a whole and different
churches all over the UnitedStates and all over the world.
As a deacon, it is yourresponsibility to also care for
(25:42):
people.
There are people that yourpastor is not always going to
get to, you know.
I think the pastor should try,obviously, but there are people
that come into a church servicewhile pastor's preaching and
they come in and sit down.
They need to be tended to, tobe loved for and cared for,
(26:03):
sometimes by the deacon.
Hey, how are you doing?
Go sit by them, tell them whoyou are when they leave, or get
up before pastor's donepreaching and they leave, tell
them thank you for coming Like,show that you care, because it
is just as important, I feellike, as it is for that pastor
to be up there preaching.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Brother Sean, one of our newest members at our church
I guess I can call him a membernow.
He's been coming for pastor tobe up there preaching.
Brother Sean, one of our newestmembers at our church I guess I
can call him a member now.
He's been coming for maybe acouple months now, as best he
can, but he showed up to churchand he got to know about us
because somebody took a actuallyit was a PB&J van.
(26:47):
I don't know if you've met thisgentleman yet, but Brother Hugh,
a guy in our church, amazingindividual.
If anybody knows, he may notwant to be associated with this
podcast.
No, he's awesome, Brother Hugh.
He's a phenomenal man, alwaysgiving, always helping.
But he took the mission or notthe mission but one of the PB&J
(27:10):
vans to get it fixed and took itto a guy to have him work on it
and they created or theyestablished that relationship
through that and that's whatJonathan's talking about here.
I'm not tearing my pastor downwhen I say this, but my pastor's
not going to come pick up oneof the vans for the outreach
(27:31):
works that we do and go take itto a mechanic.
I believe he would if he wasasked to, but that's not
necessarily his role right now.
Somebody else.
Yeah, I'll go get it, andthat's Brother Hugh.
Brother Hugh's going to do it.
And now we've got a gentlemancoming to our church that
(27:54):
probably I mean best I canunderstand probably never would
have went to our church.
He lives four miles, I think.
Four miles from the church.
Yeah, very close.
But he's there not because ofthe pastor, but because somebody
took a few extra minutes to go.
(28:16):
It was dropping a van off, butwhen they asked, hey, what is
this PB&J, tell me a little bitabout it, opened up an
opportunity for him to be ableto witness.
Yeah, and here comes the trainguys.
Yeah, the train making noise inthe background.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Go ahead unless you're just waiting on the train
making noise in the background.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Unless you're just waiting on the train.
No, I was waiting on it.
I thought you were done.
Yeah, no, I was just trying tojust throw it out there that you
know there are people thatwe'll never be able to reach,
and I've told my class that aswell.
Yeah, you know, they're inschool right now.
A lot of them are, and I'vetold them.
So there's people that I'llnever, may never, meet.
(28:57):
You know, if you go to a publicschool, or even if you go to a
private school, you're puttingyourself in situations that I
may never get to.
You know when's the next timethat I'll ever go to a public
school?
I mean, unless I'm called,never.
But you have an opportunity tobe part of that.
So just you know, even if youdon't hear us call out your role
(29:22):
or your title here, just knowthat it's still very important
and it all needs to point backto Christ.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, one of my favorite quotes is many hands
make light work.
Eyes, yeah, one of my favoritequotes is many hands make light
work.
And I think that all the pastordoes have several different
roles and the pastor does havecharacteristics that are, I
believe, required to be a pastor.
The pastor cannot do everythingJust like you have they just
(29:48):
can't.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
You're required of things to be a Christian.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, well, and that's what I'm getting at,
sorry.
No you're good.
I mean, we're about to get tothat here in a moment when we
talk about congregants but Ithink that people expect pastors
to look.
If you're a growing church,you've got 15 people in there.
Your pastor does not need to bedoing everything.
(30:12):
You also need to be doing somethings.
You also need to be workingtogether.
If your pastor is the only onethat is praying with people, if
your pastor is the only onethat's visiting the sick and the
hurting, if your pastor is theonly one going door to door
telling people about Christ,inviting them to the church, if
your pastor is the only onetaking a bus to go pick up young
(30:35):
people, to bring them intoSunday school, if he or she is
the only one to do those things,then there's a problem.
You as a congregant, andespecially you as a deacon,
should be doing those samethings.
I wanted to talk aboutdifferent roles or
(30:57):
characteristics that deaconsshould have as well, and then I
want to talk about congregants.
I think that's really important.
Obviously, as a deacon, youshould have a biblical
background.
You should have the Bible tellsus.
You should be blameless, youshould have good character, you
should have a faithful spouse.
In that, you are a goodhousehold manager.
(31:18):
You should be honest,respectful, not greedy, not
addicted to alcohol.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
No, that's not what it says.
I think it says not given tomuch wine, doesn't it?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Yeah, not given to much wine.
Yeah, so a little bit, a littlebit.
It's this guy.
Yeah, not given to much wine.
Yeah, so a little bit, a littlebit.
It's this guy.
Yeah, we are alive, brother,we're going to get kicked off so
fast?
No, but I'm assuming Sean'sjoking here.
Okay, I can't ask him and pause.
Yeah, we don't know.
You haven't been to my house ina couple years, but there are
(31:51):
qualifications for a deacon andI think that we just had one
viewer leave.
Yeah, we did, didn't we?
It needs to be said and itneeds to be shown that deacons
are I'm not going to say just asor more or little or less than
pastors, but they have a hugeresponsibility as well within
(32:12):
the church, especially whendoing the work of God.
I wanted to move on real quick.
There's so many differentlittle things that we could talk
about, and I've got scripturefor a lot of it.
But I think that it's alsoimportant to look at the purpose
of the church as a church bodyand to look at the purpose of
(32:33):
congregants and those who attendthe church, and especially
those who are saved, who believein Christ, who are followers of
Christ.
It's important as a church tofellowship among believers.
It's important as a church topray.
Churches don't pray anymore.
I know that sounds verymatter-of-fact and it also
(33:00):
sounds very blanketstatement-ish, but I am willing
to bet that, percentage-wise,it's going to show that and I'm
sure there are studies out there.
But it's going to show thatchurches just don't pray, not,
hey.
They don't come to prayermeeting, not hey.
They don't come to the altarafter we're done preaching, but
(33:22):
they just don't pray.
They have no prayer life in thechurch, but they specifically
don't have prayer life outsideof the church, and I think that
that's a problem, Brother Sean.
I mean, it is very and vitallyimportant.
It is the lifeblood thatconnects you to God and allows
God to speak to you and, attimes, speak through you.
(33:44):
So developing a prayer life asa church member is important
Proclaiming the gospel, helpingindividuals and ministering to
individuals in need.
I just mentioned that.
I'm going to mention it again.
If your pastor is the only oneproclaiming the gospel, you are
not being a follower of Christ.
(34:06):
Is it James 2 and 3?
It's James 1 and 27.
I don't know where I got 2 and3?
It's James 1 and 27.
If pastors are, I don't knowwhere I got 2 and 3 from.
I don't know if I think that'sthe same one.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
that you're thinking of.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
If pastors Is it right, is it the same one?
No, it's a different one.
That one was way off.
We won't talk about the one hejust pulled up.
If pastors are the only oneministering to those in need,
then you are not followingChrist.
If pastors are the only onethat are praying, you are not
(34:39):
following Christ.
Christ was a man who prayed.
Christ was a man who proclaimedthe good news.
Christ was a man who ministeredthose who were in need.
The Bible tells us in 1 James,1 and 27,.
Or do you have that, or is itsomething else?
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Well, I did have it, and now my phone's.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
He's all over the place.
Now the Bible tells us and Seanwill read it in James 1, 27,.
This is what it says.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the
Father.
Is this to visit the fatherlessand widows in their reflection
and to keep himself unspottedfrom the world?
Speaker 1 (35:21):
And I think that the Bible says that, but that is
portrayed through Jesus.
Through Jesus, you cannot tellme that you belong to a strong
church if your church does notcare for the orphan and the
widow and the needy and thehomeless and the addicted and
(35:45):
the children who areimpoverished.
You can't tell me that yourchurch is on fire for God if on
Sunday mornings and Sundaynights and Wednesday nights you
have shout-down services butMonday, tuesday, wednesday,
thursday, friday and Saturday,there is no fruit, there is no
helping those who are poor,there is no helping those that
(36:09):
are in need.
You do not have a church.
You have something that is adisplay.
You have something that istrying to portray a church.
But a true church is notnecessarily one that has a
shout-down service.
Every time they have a service,it is one that, when God
(36:30):
ministers to you, I take thatbread that he ministers to me
and I share that bread withthose who need ministering to as
well.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Brother Sean, and I would encourage I mean I
encourage reading the Bible, butI would encourage those that
are maybe wanting to study thisa little more or have questions
about themselves in the churchto go read James 1.
You know, we read the very lastscripture, but all throughout
(37:02):
James, chapter 1, it's beingdoers upholding perfect law of
liberty.
Bridling not your tongue, Imean deceiving your heart, I
mean.
It just goes on and on and on.
So it's a very powerful chapterfor that.
(37:23):
But you know, as a church memberand I've heard this before and
I'm sure a lot of you have butjust because you're a quote lay
member or bench warmer, that'sno reason to sit back and just
hold on.
You know, as, as Jonathan wassaying, it's, we all have a call
to action.
(37:43):
You know whether it's.
You know, whatever the case maybe, I mean we have some people
that clean our sanctuary.
I believe they do it once aweek.
I could be wrong, but they dothat to be help and it seems so
(38:06):
small.
But I guarantee if they didn'tdo it for a couple weeks, you
would find some cereal under mybench, because one of my kids
ended up with something, andthere'd be Kleenexes all
scattered around and the trashcans would start overflowing and
(38:29):
they're behind the scenes.
You never know that they'rethere.
You know they may come on aThursday night or Friday night
or whatever it is, but it'ssomething that's done to help
with the kingdom and I commendthose that even do those kind of
things that seem to gounthanked.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I'm kind of going off here, but if you do, if you run
sound, trust me, I know that'sa pretty thankless job.
I used to do it.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
The only time you're paid attention to when you run
sound is when it's bad yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Or they're singing the chorus and you're still on
the first verse.
Right, everybody looks back atyou and you're still on the
first verse.
Right right, right.
Everybody looks back at you.
You're looking down at yourphone.
Change it.
But you know, I encourage youto stay with it, keep holding on
, yeah, and continue to do thosethings, because, even if man
doesn't always see it, god doesyeah.
(39:31):
Those things, because, even ifman doesn't always see it, god
does yeah, and that's part ofbeing the body of Christ.
If you're doing those things,you may not at that moment, you
may not be preaching the gospel,or proclaiming the gospel, as
you said, or equipping others tolive holy, or doing
fellowshipping among believers,any of those things, but you're
(39:54):
still being a part of the bodyof Christ and that is something
that is very commendable.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Yeah, and I think we've said it a million times
probably on this podcast ingeneral over the span of many,
many episodes.
But I think it's commendablewhen you make it up in your mind
that I'm going to work forChrist, regardless of if I get
the credit or regardless of ifI'm seen, but I'm going to do
(40:20):
something.
You know, if, if you're most ofyou, you're driving think about
driving a car and it's like allyou do is you get in, you you
turn the ignition on and you goand then, um, the moment,
brother Sean and I were actuallyat B-dubs a couple of weeks ago
when we we got out to, uh, wegot out to my car and we went to
(40:44):
go start it and it didn't startand I was like man, so open the
hood and my battery cable waswas loose, really bad, and, um,
I didn't think about any of thatuntil I opened the hood and my
battery cable was loose, reallybad, and I didn't think about
any of that until I opened thehood and it's like whoa, what's
going on there?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
Until it won't start.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Until it won't start.
Yeah, and most of you are thesame way.
You get in the car and youstart the car and you drive
wherever and it's untilsomething goes wrong or you have
to replace something that youdon't realize.
You open that hood, hood andyou see all of these big
mechanical pieces and then yousee all of these really, really
little mechanical pieces and youwould think that that little
(41:22):
mechanical piece, like a sparkplug, like that, that tall,
maybe you just screw it in.
That's how tall it is.
It's not that big a deal andit's on top of an engine that's
like this big.
You know bigger.
We're not mechanically inclined.
Well, some of them are bigger,but some of them aren't that big
.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
But what I'm saying is I think I'm going to say this
and then you can keep going.
I think of a gasket.
Yeah, I mean, you talk aboutspark plugs, but when you
started talking, I thought of agasket.
Yeah, I mean, they're less thana 16-inch thick, but without
that, yeah, oh, you got a lot oftrouble.
(42:01):
Yeah, go ahead, keep going.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
A lot of trouble.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
You said the smallest , tiny and I thought of this
Just minuscule piece of.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah Well, you open that up and you see that and
realize that even that littlegasket, that little spark plug,
they serve a huge, huge, hugepurpose.
They're not really seen, you'vegot to dig to get to them, but
they serve a huge purpose.
Sometimes the work that you'redoing for God is not going to be
(42:37):
magnified in front of everybodyelse.
Sometimes it's not going to bebehind a pulpit preaching to
thousands of people and seeingthousands of souls come to the
altar.
It's not going to be that.
Sometimes it's going to besomething small, like cleaning.
Sometimes it's going to bewhich, by the way, it's not
small to clean.
I have done cleaning the churchbefore.
I hated it.
I would do it again if pastorasked me.
Not a fan of it, pastor, ifyou're watching.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Hey, pastor Sam Jonathan just volunteered yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
It is not a small thing, but it could be something
as little as sending a textmessage to a new church member,
or sending a text message tosomeone who used to come to
church there.
Say I'm praying for you.
Say, how are you doing?
Hey, do you want to meet up forlunch later?
You think that no one else seesthat, and because no one else
(43:25):
sees that, that means that it'snot helping this big machine go,
and that's not true.
We need those little things.
We need those little things.
We need those littleconversations, we need those
small prayers.
We need those small moments tohelp build the kingdom of God,
just as much as we need thatperson behind the pulpit
preaching, just as much as weneed that person in a place of
(43:46):
leadership, like a deacon or anelder.
We need the church as well,brother Sean.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
And that happens inside the church and outside of
the church.
He's talking about those smallthings where it doesn't seem
like you're recognized.
That small thing could beplease and thank you.
Yeah, yeah, to your waiter.
(44:15):
I think that a lot of thatstuff we've lost and I still
think, respected it should betaught and it should be
portrayed, especially byChristians.
Yeah, you know, this issomething that that again, this
is something that we've talkedabout several times when you're
(44:36):
hateful, or maybe not evenhateful, just not grateful and
not just ungrateful, thankfulnot expressing then they see
that they recognize those kindof things and being that outside
(44:58):
of the church can make a hugedifference.
Again, go back to Brother Hugh.
He wasn't in the church housewhen all that went down.
Is he one of the first peoplethat goes up and shakes your
hand if you're a visitor thatcomes in?
Yes, he is, and he'll ask youwhat your name is and he'll
(45:19):
shake all your kids' hands andask how old they are and what
they like and what theirfavorite color is.
He used to be my neighbor andsometimes it would irritate me
because as soon as he would pullup in the driveway, my kids
would run out the door withouteven telling me, and they would
come back with a Popsicle.
Yeah, yeah, and I'm like where'dyou get it, the Popsicle guy?
Yeah, the Popsicle guy.
They didn't even know it wasBrother Hugh, but they found out
(45:43):
.
He found out what theirfavorite color was, and I
promise you was, and I promiseyou he had 150 plus popsicles in
his freezer.
But he would pull up and he'dsee the kids running over there
and he'd go out there and tellthem you want a pink one, you
(46:03):
want a blue one, right?
Okay, just a minute.
And he'd run in the house andhe would dig through the fridge
I guarantee it would notsurprise me one bit if he would
ever went in there and couldn'tfind the color, so went and
bought a new box of them, eventhough there was still a dozen
of them left, so those kidscould have a pink one and a blue
one, or whatever their colorsare, but it doesn't matter.
(46:24):
Inside the church, outside ofthe church, that's Brother Hugh,
and you'll know exactly who heis, because he's the same and
he's going to treat everybodythe same.
He's going to show the love ofChrist, doesn't matter, pb&j
walking down the street, runninginto a Walmart, in the church
house, doesn't matter.
That's Brother Hugh and that'swhat we all need to be.
I strive to be like BrotherHugh.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
I think we should end with this question, unless you
have more.
You interrupt me, but with thisquestion of like, what is your
persona inside the church versusoutside of the church?
You know what is your, what areyour characteristics?
Are they Christ-like?
Are they loving?
Are they, are they kind?
You play an important role as apastor.
You play an important role as adeacon and as apostle and as a
prophet.
You play an important role as adeacon and as an apostle and as
a prophet.
You play an important role asthese things in the kingdom of
(47:16):
God.
But just as a simple congregant, as someone who just goes,
you're like I just go to church,that's it.
I'm a nobody.
You know what.
You're somebody for God.
You can do something for God,but think about that Everybody
has somebody watching them.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
Yeah, absolutely Everybody does.
Even if you don't think thatyou do, somebody is watching you
.
Yes, I've got an 8-year-old, a6-year-old, a 4-year-old and a
1-year-old, and my 8-year-olddaughter and my 6-year-old son
for sure.
See some teenagers some 12, 13,14, 15-year-olds walk in the
(47:58):
church.
My son will be like Dad, can Igo sit by?
So-and-so, like he's not hereyet.
Yeah, he is.
I just saw him walk in.
I'm going to go sit by him.
They sit up front.
Can I go sit with them whenthey sing for songs?
Absolutely, you can.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
Everybody has somebody watching them.
Go ahead, no, it's so true.
And everybody has someone thatlooks up to them, you know, and
wants to pattern their lifeafter them sometimes.
So just think of that, rememberthat and are you being
Christ-like inside and outsideof the church?
I think that that will concludeour episode.
I didn't see any comments orquestions on there.
(48:44):
We appreciate everyone who'sbeen watching and keeping up.
Again.
I'm going to mention this onemore time, but here on Monday,
February the 10th, I'm going toput that up on the screen here.
But Monday, February the 10th,at 7 pm Central Standard Time,
(49:05):
we are going to have a debatebetween Nathan Mayo of Berean
Holiness and Luke Beetz, who isa holiness evangelist and a
campus preacher.
They're going to be debatingabout doctrine, standards and
the gospel.
If you want to know what theresolution is for that debate,
go to our Facebook page bysearching the Every Day that's
(49:28):
the Every Day Christian Podcastand go look at the last few
posts that we put on there.
We talk about that.
If you have a question for thatdebate, if you're wondering
what it means, if you have aburning question that you've
thought of that no one reallyhas given you the correct answer
for, or at least not a biblicalor clear, concise answer for
(49:54):
that you would like to submit tothese debaters?
Please comment below or send usa direct message.
There's been several that havebravely commented on the post
themselves and several who havebravely messaged just as well.
So if you would like to have aquestion submitted for that, let
(50:15):
me rephrase not rephrase, butlet me re-say that If you would
like a question, not I'm givinga comment on what I feel about
these two people, not I'm givingmy opinion on this subject,
none of that.
If you have a question for thedebaters, please, please, please
(50:36):
, reach out to us, and you haveuntil Friday to do so.
Brother Sean, do you haveanything to add to that?
No, sir, Praise God.
Well, I want to thank everybodywho has listened in and joined
us, and we pray that you have awonderful evening and an
everyday Christian Podcast isout.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
God bless, thank you, thank you.
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