September 16, 2021 • 25 mins
After suffering from severe stress while going through her doctorate, Dr. Alice fell into a downward spiral of alcohol abuse. This continued until she realized her problem, and she has been sober for three years since.
It's this experience that led Dr. Alice to starting the Beyond the Pink Cloud podcast, where she talks to people that have overcome their own battles with substance abuse, as well as inspired others by living their best lives.
Topics up for discussion this week include:
- how the podcast grew from her own recovery from alcohol abuse
- how the Covid-19 pandemic is leading to higher stress and addiction temptation
- how we're adding to our stress levels while working from home
- how the show's direction has evolved from recovery-focused to multiple fields of expertise across various topics
- why she's inspired by people living their dreams
- some of the hurdles that are hard to overcome when dealing with abuse
- how the drinking culture of different countries affects addiction levels
- the fear of sharing her story in the first few episodes
- how she became a semi-professional fire dancer
Settle back for an open and honest discussion about addiction, recovery, and what that means to the people afflicted, and those surrounding them.
Connect with Dr. Alice:
Contact me: danny@podcasterstories.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alice (00:00):
That was a wonderful piece of advice.
Actually, a friend gave me, he waslike, just try this for six months.
You can always go back to drinking.
And that really made itvery possible for me.
And I liked that perspective andI share that frequently because it
takes this scary nature of, oh myGod, I have to change this forever.
But you can do six months.
Most of us can look at that timeperiod and say, okay, this is doable.
Why don't I try this?
Why don't I do some research with beingsober and see what that feels like?
(00:23):
On
Danny (00:23):
this week's show, I've got Dr.
Alice Kerby from San Diego in California.
Who's the host of the beyondthe pink cloud podcast.
So Dr.
Kirby or Dr.
Alice sorry.
I'm not sure which.
Dr.
Alice, I'll get you stared Dr.
Alice, welcome to the show.
How about you tell the listenersabout yourself and your podcast.
Sure.
Alice (00:43):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a, it's a pleasure tobe with you this morning.
And so I'm Dr.
Alice Kirby.
I'm a doctor of physical therapy as wellas a health consultants and a somatic
experiencing practitioner in training.
And a lot of people haven'theard of somatic experiences.
Essentially I'm a trauma practitioner.
So I work with trauma.
(01:03):
I work with chronic stress and anxietyprimarily within my consulting work.
And I'm based here in San Diego.
And I started my podcastbeyond the pink cloud.
About a year ago.
I have a, a special love for workingwith women in recovery, from alcohol
addiction and sober women who are.
You know, who have moved forwardfrom that place in their lives, where
(01:25):
they've been very, you know, dependentor struggled with using the substance
or even women who are more like grayarea drinkers, or just want to try
something other than alcohol to help withanxiety or stress or calming them down.
And so I started the podcast as.
Really for that community of waysto move forward beyond recovery.
And I've really, I'm so happy withthe direction it's taken because of
(01:48):
course we S we certainly still holdthat in the, in the theme of the
podcast, but it's really evolved intojust a place full of information.
I have guests on every week.
And so I interviewed people from I had Dr.
Neal Barnard on who is really big.
The psychologist based inWashington, DC, that does a lot
within the plant-based movement.
(02:09):
And he's published, I think, 17 books anda bazillion, you know, research articles,
but he's had phenomenal results withpeople actually reversing diabetes, using
a plant-based diet and with women who havebeen able to really heal endometriosis and
really you know, painful menstrual cramps.
And debilitating, you know,menstrual type syndrome.
(02:29):
So he was really interesting to talk to.
And then I, I just recently had on BrucePerry who produce the BBC show tribe and
is this documentarian, and he's lived allover the world with indigenous people.
And as we talked a bit about theegalitarianism tribes and what
that's like to live with peoplethat really don't have anyone.
(02:50):
In charge and nobody isable to be in charge.
So it really is this sense ofequality within a community.
So it was really lovely to talk with him.
Anyway, I get really, really excitedabout the show because there's just I'm
I love how, how many of these amazingpeople come on and speak with me and
really give my audience a sense of, oh,there's all these other things in life.
(03:10):
Like if they are sober, you know,now that I'm sober, like look at all
these other ways I can, I can delveinto my own journey of, of just really
thriving and be my essential self.
Danny (03:21):
Right.
And for people that, that may not be awareof the town pink cloud what does that.
Alice (03:27):
Sure.
So it's a recovery term.
And I don't know if it's just likein 12 step recovery or if it's more
broad, but I know it as there's thistime period, almost like a honeymoon
phase, I think we could relate it toin a relationship where everything's
really lovey and it feels really great.
And you know, it's, it'slike this with recovery.
So when you.
When you give up a substance or whenyou get sober from alcohol or drugs or
(03:51):
whatever your thing is there can be thistime period, and not everyone goes through
this, but a lot of people experienceit and it's called the pink cloud.
That's essentially where you're justkind of floating on this happy cloud
and you realize how great life is.
And I think it's before maybesome more, the work can come
in around, you know, recovery.
But some people stay on it fora really long time and just feel
really good, know that they'refree of addiction and substance.
(04:15):
So that's where the termthat pink cloud comes from.
And so beyond the pinkcloud is really like, okay.
You know, now that we'removing forward in our.
What's next and how canwe continue to thrive?
All right.
Danny (04:25):
And I know you'd mentioned that obviously your professional job is a
therapist and the, the, the podcast ismore about recovery from addiction, but
it was some of that can be done to traumaand get up recovering from a therapy.
What, what, where did the ideaof the podcast come about?
Thromb?
Was it people you were speakingwith brands, et cetera,
or how did it come from?
So your professional day job into the, of.
(04:48):
Addiction focused topicof the podcast recovery.
Alice (04:52):
So, yeah, sure.
And so I I've been transitioningfrom practicing more as a, as a DPT,
as a doctor physical therapy overthe past year and a half, really.
So I don't actually see.
That many patients anymore.
I do a little bit of PT still,but not a lot because I've really
moved more into the trauma recoverywork because it's so valuable.
(05:12):
And I'll certainly use that withsome of my PT clients because it's
great for any kind of like motorvehicle accidents or falls or even
surgical prep, things like that.
The trauma work is hugely hugely importantand works really, really well for those.
But in my own life, I got sober almostthree years ago and I had really
struggled a lot with addiction withalcohol specifically was my thing.
(05:35):
And even in as I was fig as Iwas finishing some of my clinical
internships in rotations throughmy doctorate program, I was really
struggling with a lot of anxiety andstress in my personal life, and like
really having to claw myself to get.
Like I have this picture oflike digging out of a hole, like
really just clinging to a wall.
That's really what it felt like inthis last bit of my, my education.
(05:56):
So my own drinking really took me downand I'm quite lucky cause I was able to
get help and go into some recovery andexperience that pink cloud for myself.
And then at the same time, I was workingwith a therapist who introduced me
to the somatic experiencing tools.
Really resonated with that work.
And it helped me so much.
And my early sobriety continuesto help me a bunch now, but it was
(06:17):
really, I think, quite pivotal forme to make that switch of knowing.
Okay.
Not just do I want to give upthis substance, but I'm gay.
Sense of myself and the sense of beingable to really feel good in my body.
And so that was very powerfulfor me to want to stay sober.
So the podcast just came about aspart of this greater step into working
(06:39):
more with sober women or working with.
Women who are under a lot ofchronic stress or anxiety.
I work for goodly with women in thecorporate sector as well, even if they
don't have the issue with alcohol, it'salmost this addiction to high achieving
or addiction to like work and stresswhere where we get so used to it, that it
becomes part of our identity is what I'veseen with a lot of the women I work with.
(07:00):
They're like, well, if I changemy job, I don't know who I am.
So.
That's kind of a long answer, but no, no,
Danny (07:05):
it's, it's, it's interesting to hear, you know, from your own personal
experience, how that grew into whatyou're talking about now and the people
you're helping know through the show.
And I, I know like some of the peopleI've spoken to what would be in sort of in
the green room prior to shoulder gardens,for example, we've spoken about the
impact that COVID-19 has had on people'smental health and their stress levels.
And some of that has done to the fact thatnow a lot more people are working from
(07:27):
home for the first time to find that hardto switch off because they don't have.
Dedicated 9:00 AM starta 5:00 PM cutoff point.
Now you're driving homecommuting or whatever.
Is that something that you've possiblyfound, you know the last few months or
people you've spoken to on your own showthat stress levels are increasing as
workload, et cetera, increases over thelast few months because of the pandemic
(07:49):
and the fact that we've got more time toallocate to work, that we wouldn't know.
Alice (07:54):
I think so.
I mean, definitely.
I think yes, overall stress hasbeen pretty high on a global scale.
And I think part of that is that we,we, when you think about it from a
trauma perspective and trying to likeorient to the threat of like what's
coming for us and there's no real visualthing to, to orient to where to find.
So it's, it's like we're trying to placeourselves in relation to this, this
(08:15):
scary thing or this threatening thing.
But I love the, I love yourpoint about working from home
because that's huge for people.
And particularly I tendto work with women, not
exclusively, but primarily, and.
Working with women who havechildren in her home and are
trying to do their busy jobs.
And yet also caretake all the time.
I know that that's been incrediblystressful for people as well.
(08:35):
And in some of the things that Iencourage people to do to speak to
your point of their home all the time.
So work can just go on into the night.
It can start earlier.
There isn't the same constraintsor bookmarks of like I
start work and I end work.
So having people, if they can to setaside a space in their home, even
if it's just a table, Somewhere,and that's just designated for work.
(08:55):
So to have a particular space that'sjust around work and you don't sit
there and do other things, if you can.
And I know not everyone can do that,but if you could even have like a small
quarter, that's just for work and I'vebeen doing that myself, cause I'll notice
the same thing where it's 10 o'clock andI'm doing this or that for my business.
And I'm like, you have to stop.
Yeah.
Danny (09:16):
Okay.
Now I know you mentioned earlierabout the guests that you've been
having on and the conversationsyou've been having on the shores.
And I noticed that there'sa looking at your episodes.
You're up to it's about episode 30, 233 at the moment 33 was the last one.
Yeah.
And it looks like you've got a asolid mix of health professionals.
And then what I would say is normaleveryday people, even though they're
(09:37):
well-known in the field, was thatalways a goal to have a major.
Health conversations as well as, youknow, creatives and professional people,
or did that come about organically?
Alice (09:47):
I think it did come about organically.
I really, my goal with going intoit was to provide the listeners
A wide range of perspectiveson how to move forward in life.
And in the beginning itwas more recovery focused.
I had more kind of recovery coachesor people like that on people
talking about their own recoveryjourneys, but as it's expanded.
(10:09):
Like I was saying earlier, I've reI've really enjoyed the opportunity.
And I know my audience does too, tohave these people from, you know,
from all these various fields andlevels of experience and expertise
that aren't necessarily tied intothe recovery community, but that
do offer it a different perspectiveon what life could be like.
And for me personally, I reallylike talking to people who are.
(10:30):
W living there, their inspiration, youknow, and who are working in a field of
their inspiration, because I think thatjust gives the rest of us the ability
to see, oh, this is possible for me.
And, oh, I can follow someof these things that cause.
And,
Danny (10:46):
And speaking to the guests there's a, as we mentioned has been a wide
variety with very open raw topics at time.
Has it been not to try to put youon the spot or anything, but has it
been possibly like an episode that'sreally stood out or, or impacted you
or of the shows that you've completed?
So.
Alice (11:02):
Oh, that's such a great question.
I don't think anyone'sasked me that before.
You know, I don't, I have my favorites.
I do have summer.
I just really not, you know, not becauseanyone's better than anyone else,
but I've had guests that I've justreally enjoyed and gotten a lot out.
Kirsten Johnson was one of them.
She lives over in Bali and has thisbook called the heartgasm revolution
and she's big in the sober community,but I just loved her story and her
(11:23):
vibe was so infectious and I feel likeshe's one of those people that's really
embodying what she's what she's preaching,you know, what she's working with.
And that was, she was justa delight to speak with.
I had Jason Stevenson on who's.
Someone I've reallyadmired for a long time.
I love his work.
He's a meditation coach andis pretty big on YouTube.
And, you know, my mom loves him,which was, it was exciting for her.
(11:43):
She's a caregiver to interview him.
And so that was neat.
And he was just a lovely guy sometimes.
And the same thing with Bruce Perry,where I'm a big fan of his work.
And so it was neat to justsit down with the person.
I don't know if those have beenhugely impactful on my own personal
life, but I do get somethingout of everyone I speak to.
And I think it really does draw back towhat I was saying earlier that seeing
people that are really living their dreamsand are really inspired and motivated in
(12:07):
their work is definitely just a catalystfor me to continue with my own journey.
And hopefully for the audiences.
Danny (12:14):
Yeah, no.
And I know, I mean, I'm reallyjealous that she lives in Bali.
I did a fly over there once when Iwas in Australia many years ago, and
it was only there for the evening,but it was just an incredible island.
I'm super jealous Rachel
Alice (12:26):
lives there.
I know, I know.
It's me too.
It's coming up on the list.
Danny (12:31):
Yeah.
No, you'd mentioned that the, thepodcast sprung from your own personal
experience and your own sobrietyjourney from the last few years, what
do you feel is the biggest hurdle?
To overcome an addiction, whether it's,you know, substance abuse, alcohol abuse,
et cetera, is there, is there somethingthat, that you find is a sort of, you know
(12:52):
a similar obstacle for most people or,and how do you help with that overcoming?
Alice (12:59):
I think that's a great question as well.
And you know, I don't know ifthere's any one biggest thing.
I think you.
I can speak from my own experience.
Like I really had to get over theidea of Like being able to moderate
or being able to control my drinking.
I had to just accept that.
Like, I can't like alcohol is not for me.
(13:19):
It's just not, I can't drink.
If I do it, it just goes bad.
And I've proven that becauseI've done a lot of research in
that area and my personal life.
And it's not something I can do.
And some people can, some people canmoderate and be very well, but I think
you have to really take an honest look atyourself and if it's something, whatever,
whatever the thing is, if it's somethingthat you, if it's negatively impacting
(13:42):
your life, and that could be, maybe youhave a glass of wine at night, but if
that's keeping you from reaching yourcreative potential and you feel like
you can really do more and offer more.
And be more in your life andthat's keeping you from that.
Then you've got to bereally honest with yourself.
Of what role is the substanceplain for you, or what role is
this behavior playing for you?
And I think if you can get honestwith yourself on that then seek
(14:03):
out community, seek out some kindof support and help around it.
A counselor, whether it's workingwith the coach, whether it's some
kind of a group recovery program,there's tons of different options
for people now around things.
Alcohol in particular, I'm quiteaware of, cause that's the field
that I work in, but there's a milliondifferent options because a lot of
people say, well, I don't want to goto a 12 step thing and that's fine.
(14:25):
There's like 10 other things you can gotry, but you've got to try something.
And, and building that community right.
The central, whoever that's with, butjust to be around other people who can
relate to what you're going through,relate to what you've gone through.
I think that helps.
It's huge.
It's huge for recovery.
Danny (14:41):
I know I've got a friend who you know about his own alcohol addictions.
And one of the things he constantly saidwas the point you made about having that
community network around you, of peoplethat are, have either experienced it
previously, or are currently experiencingbecause they can relate and to know
what you're going through, where tosee a partner or a colleague or a
friend or anything may not be able tounderstand what you're going through
(15:05):
and give you bad advice, even thoughthe things that giving you friendly.
Good advice.
Alice (15:10):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I've had some women who, who havewanted to kind of question their
relationship with alcohol, but oneof the women that I'm working with
currently, she mentioned, oh, you know,this, this person who's close to me
in my life told me, oh, but you neverreally had that much of a problem.
You never heard anyone.
You never were drivingdrunk or anything like that.
But she knew that it wasreally detrimental for her.
So I think if you know, inside, likeit's not always good to listen to those
(15:34):
people that are saying, well, maybeit's not that big of a deal because
they don't, they don't live within you.
So.
You don't trust, trustyourself a bit around that.
If you, if you think it's aproblem, then try not doing it.
That was a wonderful piece of advice.
Actually, a friend gave me, he waslike, just try this for six months.
You can always go back to drinking.
And that really made itvery possible for me.
And I like that perspective.
(15:54):
And I share that frequently becauseit takes this scary nature of, oh my
God, I have to change this forever.
But you can do six months.
Most of us can look at that timeperiod and say, okay, this is doable.
Why don't I try this?
Why don't I do some research with beingsober and see what that feels like?
Danny (16:10):
And I know the and I think a lot of that comes down to like, certainly I,
I look at the UK, it's a very big drinkingculture, drink and mindset culture.
And I compare that tosee in north America.
What of Canada?
The U S.
And it's very different.
And the UK it's celebrated, you know,you're not distrust you unless you
have a beer on hand or something.
So it's interesting to, you know, Icame to Canada 12, 13 years ago almost.
(16:31):
And it's been interesting to, tocontinue to watch my friends back
in the UK and their behaviors andhow that is so different over.
Is it
Alice (16:39):
different in Canada?
What's it like there withthe, with the drinking?
Yeah,
Danny (16:43):
it's it's weird in Canada because it's got Canada's sort of weird halfway
house between the UK and the U S I think,you know, it's like we're closer to the
UK than the us and mindset, but we'reclose to the U S and a lot of things.
So I think there's definitely aparty culture here, but I think
Canadians are, do a better job.
Managing it, you know, they don't havebars up until say 4:00 AM or 24 nightclub
(17:05):
and et cetera that you have in the UK.
And I think that definitely, there'snot like a pub scene, like in the
UK, there's very much a pop scene.
Every lot of times guides at leasttwo or three pubs on the same street.
It's crazy.
Whereas here not so much.
I think that helps for sure.
Alice (17:20):
Definitely does.
Yeah, I would think so.
Danny (17:23):
So with the, the podcast was there, cause obviously you, you
mentioned that you'd started a podcastto a land from your own journey and
share your license and help women,you know, looking to become sober
or continuing a journey of sobriety.
What are any sort of obstacles thatyou had to overcome as a podcast
to coming into the space talkingabout, you know, something that some
people might not want to hear about.
Alice (17:45):
Yeah, definitely.
It's a little scary, particularlythe first couple episodes where
I sort of shared my story.
And I think also getting over thehurdle of being able to interview
people and speak articulately.
There's certainly an art that comeswith that and time helps a lot.
And I've noticed more frequently,I've been guesting on more podcasts
and really sharing a lot of, moreof the details of my own story.
(18:07):
And I went back and listened to one andI definitely had a moment of, because
I know my mom had listened to it andI had this moment of like, wow, that
was really pretty raw and vulnerable.
I just shared all that inthis very public space.
So some of that will come up.
I think as long as, you know, for me,as long as I'm feeling quite grounded
and true to myself, then it's okay.
(18:28):
Because I think being vulnerable andsharing these experiences are what
really can help other people to know.
Okay, I'm not alone.
Other people have gone through this andthey've come out the other side, you
know, and they're not still stuck in thisreally miserable place of, of addiction.
Danny (18:44):
Alright.
And I know you'd mentionedthe, the first few episodes.
What about yourself?
And, you know and you're, youhad lessons as a podcast as well.
So if you were to give advice, like anypiece of advice for either someone is
looking to get into podcasts in, or thehealth professional, like yourself or
someone, that's got your, you know, your,a similar story to yourself and is looking
for an outlet, what would be your pieceof advice for someone looking to begin.
Alice (19:08):
Well, I recently learned about Libsyn as far as a podcast host
and I did my podcast on anchor andthere I'm still currently hosting
it there, but I've recently learneda bit more about why that's not the
best platform and other platforms.
So I think doing a little bit of research,actually on the mechanics of what is a
good platform, talk to other podcasters.
Anytime you want to start somethingnew, talk to someone who's been doing.
(19:31):
And is doing it welland ask them questions.
But I think don't overlook some of thosetechnical things as well of it, especially
if it's a project that you'd like tostart and carry through for a while, see
if you can begin on a platform that'sgoing to grow with you and sustain you.
So speak with someone who's been doingit, someone like yourself, or, you
know, there's so many people that aredoing podcasts and doing quite well.
(19:53):
But ask questions and get started too.
Like, don't be afraid you canorder really basic equipment.
Very inexpensively.
That sounds good.
So don't get hung up on the technicalthings, but getting advice from someone
who has been doing it is always a goodway to start when, when you're beginning
a new journey or a new A new task.
Danny (20:12):
Yep.
And I like the thing you mentioned,you know, it's as great to
start on something like anchor.
That's what I startedoff way back in the day.
And it's a really easy platform andthat'll let you know, dude, is there
something I want to do, you know,in 2, 3, 6 months time, et cetera.
And now you can start to, as youmentioned, you know, start to wear
headphones and know why you should bewearing headphones when you're, you
know, speaking on a podcast recording.
(20:33):
So just to, just to switch it up a littlebit, what's It may not even be an answer.
And that's perfectly fine, cause I knowyou're a very open book when it comes
to about yourself, the show, et cetera.
But what might be something thatnot a lot of people know about
you that may surprise them?
Ah,
Alice (20:47):
oh, that's a great question too.
I am such an open book.
When I lived in Hawaii, Iwas a semi-professional fire
dancer and belly dancer.
And I think some people knowthat I used to belly dance.
I've done a a body of research aroundit as well, but I don't really do
the fire dancing so much anymore.
But when I lived over there, it was great.
(21:08):
I had this group of women and wewould book parties and we got paid.
And that's why I say, say myprofessional, because it was
something we were making money for.
And it was so much fun.
And a lot of people are doing it more.
Now I see it a lot in myneighborhood here in ocean beach.
There's a big fire community and it'spretty cool, but I like to think we
were a little bit cutting edge back thenbecause it wasn't so, so widely popular.
(21:31):
That was a ton of fun.
It's really neat to work with fire and tohave that elemental nature while you're in
really in your body and, you know, movingon the earth and, you know, Hawaii is such
a magical place for all of that to happen.
So,
Danny (21:44):
so how does fire and work?
I seen also ballet dancers andI seen people like walk over
coals and up at fire dancing.
What does that look like?
Alice (21:50):
So there's a couple of different ways.
Like some people will have the longstaffs and then there's different kinds of
wicking material you can put on each end.
I know Canuck is one type andthen there's another type.
I forget the name of it, butit's like a, a substance.
You can dip it in gas.
There's white, you can use white gas iswhat we used to use and then you light it.
And so it'll burn, butit'll stay contained.
You know, WIC primarily.
(22:11):
And so you can have a really bigwick and you get a really big flame
where you can have it smaller.
And I learned with , which istraditional from Hawaii or from
that region from the Pacificisland region, I think maybe Samoa.
And I may be saying that wrong.
So I apologize if I am, but it's liketwo chains and then you have little
balls at the end, so you can kind ofswing them around and dance and it's fun.
(22:34):
Yeah.
It's a lot of fun.
It's neat to work with
Danny (22:36):
fire.
Was it ever any accidents?
Alice (22:40):
I have a little bird.
I got a scar, but nothing major.
No.
And, and I think for those accidents, youlearn really quickly what you shouldn't
be doing and just ways to be careful and.
You know, take precautions.
Danny (22:52):
Yeah, that's cool.
I like the sound of that.
I, I, I seen people know that youmentioned, I've seen people with the,
the ones that are hanging down, likeMacy's old sort of medieval messes
with the balls on fire at the end.
So it's swinging a boat thrownup there and catching it.
It's pretty cool.
It's a little bit.
Well, Dr.
Alice, I really appreciateyou coming on the show today.
It's been a real interesting conversationand I know people take a lot away
(23:13):
from the topics you've been talkingabout for anybody that wants to learn
more, either for themselves or forpartners, our family, et cetera, about
either addiction, recovery, and youknow where to listen to your show
is about these topics, et cetera.
Where's the best place for people to find.
Alice (23:28):
Sure.
So I'm really active on Facebook.
Alice Kirby, there, you can alsocheck out my website, which is
Kirby method, consulting.com.
I have an Instagrampresence too, which is Dr.
Dr.
Alice Kirby.
But on Facebook, I'm onthere pretty regularly.
I do it a lot of live videos.
I talk about some of the trial traumahealing work and just different ways
to, to change our relationship withstress and anxiety and integrate our
(23:50):
nervous system, things like that.
But, yeah, my website's got a lot,all my links and everything as well.
Okay.
Danny (23:57):
Awesome.
So what I'll do, I'll make sure thatI drop all the, the links to your
shore, the website, the Facebook,et cetera, and the show notes.
So if you're listening to this inyour podcast app, be sure to check
the show notes so we can directyou over to where to find Dr.
Alice.
So let's see if I really appreciateyou coming on today, man.
What's your plans for the rest of.
Alice (24:13):
I've got a little bit more work to do, and my partner has the day off.
So I'm hoping I can get him outto the forest to go for a hike.
Danny (24:20):
You'd mentioned that hiking.
So that's a big
Alice (24:21):
thing.
Yeah.
I love it.
That's what I've been doinga lot of during COVID.
So it's, there's an area I discoveredrecently that actually has trees,
which for Southern Califor.
A bit of a rarity.
So I'm hoping I can takehim there this afternoon.
Danny (24:34):
Oh, that's cool.
Hope you enjoy that.
We've we've got the kids they're justdoing some schoolwork at the moment.
I hope they're doing someschoolwork at the moment.
I don't know what they'redoing in this half hour.
I will pull
Alice (24:42):
up.
That's a good
Danny (24:43):
sign.
Well, that's a border, right?
Unless they'll make it ahuge mess somewhere else.
We'll find out.
Well, I hope you enjoy your hike.
And as I say, I reallydo appreciate coming on.
It's been a pleasure having you on.
Alice (24:53):
Thank you so much for having me.
Danny (24:55):
This has been another episode of podcast stories.
If you enjoyed this week's episodeyou know, feel free to leave a
review on iTunes and share withanybody that you feel might enjoy it.
You can find more episodes at PodcasterStories dot com and on your favorite
podcast app, like apple podcast, Googlepodcast, Spotify, and more until the
next time take care and we'll speak soon.
That was a wonderful piece of advice.
Actually, a friend gave me, he waslike, just try this for six months.
You can always go back to drinking.
And that really made itvery possible for me.
And I liked that perspective andI share that frequently because it
takes this scary nature of, oh myGod, I have to change this forever.
But you can do six months.
Most of us can look at that timeperiod and say, okay, this is doable.
Why don't I try this?
Why don't I do some research with beingsober and see what that feels like?
(00:23):
On
Danny (00:23):
this week's show, I've got Dr.
Alice Kerby from San Diego in California.
Who's the host of the beyondthe pink cloud podcast.
So Dr.
Kirby or Dr.
Alice sorry.
I'm not sure which.
Dr.
Alice, I'll get you stared Dr.
Alice, welcome to the show.
How about you tell the listenersabout yourself and your podcast.
Sure.
Alice (00:43):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a, it's a pleasure tobe with you this morning.
And so I'm Dr.
Alice Kirby.
I'm a doctor of physical therapy as wellas a health consultants and a somatic
experiencing practitioner in training.
And a lot of people haven'theard of somatic experiences.
Essentially I'm a trauma practitioner.
So I work with trauma.
(01:03):
I work with chronic stress and anxietyprimarily within my consulting work.
And I'm based here in San Diego.
And I started my podcastbeyond the pink cloud.
About a year ago.
I have a, a special love for workingwith women in recovery, from alcohol
addiction and sober women who are.
You know, who have moved forwardfrom that place in their lives, where
(01:25):
they've been very, you know, dependentor struggled with using the substance
or even women who are more like grayarea drinkers, or just want to try
something other than alcohol to help withanxiety or stress or calming them down.
And so I started the podcast as.
Really for that community of waysto move forward beyond recovery.
And I've really, I'm so happy withthe direction it's taken because of
(01:48):
course we S we certainly still holdthat in the, in the theme of the
podcast, but it's really evolved intojust a place full of information.
I have guests on every week.
And so I interviewed people from I had Dr.
Neal Barnard on who is really big.
The psychologist based inWashington, DC, that does a lot
within the plant-based movement.
(02:09):
And he's published, I think, 17 books anda bazillion, you know, research articles,
but he's had phenomenal results withpeople actually reversing diabetes, using
a plant-based diet and with women who havebeen able to really heal endometriosis and
really you know, painful menstrual cramps.
And debilitating, you know,menstrual type syndrome.
(02:29):
So he was really interesting to talk to.
And then I, I just recently had on BrucePerry who produce the BBC show tribe and
is this documentarian, and he's lived allover the world with indigenous people.
And as we talked a bit about theegalitarianism tribes and what
that's like to live with peoplethat really don't have anyone.
(02:50):
In charge and nobody isable to be in charge.
So it really is this sense ofequality within a community.
So it was really lovely to talk with him.
Anyway, I get really, really excitedabout the show because there's just I'm
I love how, how many of these amazingpeople come on and speak with me and
really give my audience a sense of, oh,there's all these other things in life.
(03:10):
Like if they are sober, you know,now that I'm sober, like look at all
these other ways I can, I can delveinto my own journey of, of just really
thriving and be my essential self.
Danny (03:21):
Right.
And for people that, that may not be awareof the town pink cloud what does that.
Alice (03:27):
Sure.
So it's a recovery term.
And I don't know if it's just likein 12 step recovery or if it's more
broad, but I know it as there's thistime period, almost like a honeymoon
phase, I think we could relate it toin a relationship where everything's
really lovey and it feels really great.
And you know, it's, it'slike this with recovery.
So when you.
When you give up a substance or whenyou get sober from alcohol or drugs or
(03:51):
whatever your thing is there can be thistime period, and not everyone goes through
this, but a lot of people experienceit and it's called the pink cloud.
That's essentially where you're justkind of floating on this happy cloud
and you realize how great life is.
And I think it's before maybesome more, the work can come
in around, you know, recovery.
But some people stay on it fora really long time and just feel
really good, know that they'refree of addiction and substance.
(04:15):
So that's where the termthat pink cloud comes from.
And so beyond the pinkcloud is really like, okay.
You know, now that we'removing forward in our.
What's next and how canwe continue to thrive?
All right.
Danny (04:25):
And I know you'd mentioned that obviously your professional job is a
therapist and the, the, the podcast ismore about recovery from addiction, but
it was some of that can be done to traumaand get up recovering from a therapy.
What, what, where did the ideaof the podcast come about?
Thromb?
Was it people you were speakingwith brands, et cetera,
or how did it come from?
So your professional day job into the, of.
(04:48):
Addiction focused topicof the podcast recovery.
Alice (04:52):
So, yeah, sure.
And so I I've been transitioningfrom practicing more as a, as a DPT,
as a doctor physical therapy overthe past year and a half, really.
So I don't actually see.
That many patients anymore.
I do a little bit of PT still,but not a lot because I've really
moved more into the trauma recoverywork because it's so valuable.
(05:12):
And I'll certainly use that withsome of my PT clients because it's
great for any kind of like motorvehicle accidents or falls or even
surgical prep, things like that.
The trauma work is hugely hugely importantand works really, really well for those.
But in my own life, I got sober almostthree years ago and I had really
struggled a lot with addiction withalcohol specifically was my thing.
(05:35):
And even in as I was fig as Iwas finishing some of my clinical
internships in rotations throughmy doctorate program, I was really
struggling with a lot of anxiety andstress in my personal life, and like
really having to claw myself to get.
Like I have this picture oflike digging out of a hole, like
really just clinging to a wall.
That's really what it felt like inthis last bit of my, my education.
(05:56):
So my own drinking really took me downand I'm quite lucky cause I was able to
get help and go into some recovery andexperience that pink cloud for myself.
And then at the same time, I was workingwith a therapist who introduced me
to the somatic experiencing tools.
Really resonated with that work.
And it helped me so much.
And my early sobriety continuesto help me a bunch now, but it was
(06:17):
really, I think, quite pivotal forme to make that switch of knowing.
Okay.
Not just do I want to give upthis substance, but I'm gay.
Sense of myself and the sense of beingable to really feel good in my body.
And so that was very powerfulfor me to want to stay sober.
So the podcast just came about aspart of this greater step into working
(06:39):
more with sober women or working with.
Women who are under a lot ofchronic stress or anxiety.
I work for goodly with women in thecorporate sector as well, even if they
don't have the issue with alcohol, it'salmost this addiction to high achieving
or addiction to like work and stresswhere where we get so used to it, that it
becomes part of our identity is what I'veseen with a lot of the women I work with.
(07:00):
They're like, well, if I changemy job, I don't know who I am.
So.
That's kind of a long answer, but no, no,
Danny (07:05):
it's, it's, it's interesting to hear, you know, from your own personal
experience, how that grew into whatyou're talking about now and the people
you're helping know through the show.
And I, I know like some of the peopleI've spoken to what would be in sort of in
the green room prior to shoulder gardens,for example, we've spoken about the
impact that COVID-19 has had on people'smental health and their stress levels.
And some of that has done to the fact thatnow a lot more people are working from
(07:27):
home for the first time to find that hardto switch off because they don't have.
Dedicated 9:00 AM starta 5:00 PM cutoff point.
Now you're driving homecommuting or whatever.
Is that something that you've possiblyfound, you know the last few months or
people you've spoken to on your own showthat stress levels are increasing as
workload, et cetera, increases over thelast few months because of the pandemic
(07:49):
and the fact that we've got more time toallocate to work, that we wouldn't know.
Alice (07:54):
I think so.
I mean, definitely.
I think yes, overall stress hasbeen pretty high on a global scale.
And I think part of that is that we,we, when you think about it from a
trauma perspective and trying to likeorient to the threat of like what's
coming for us and there's no real visualthing to, to orient to where to find.
So it's, it's like we're trying to placeourselves in relation to this, this
(08:15):
scary thing or this threatening thing.
But I love the, I love yourpoint about working from home
because that's huge for people.
And particularly I tendto work with women, not
exclusively, but primarily, and.
Working with women who havechildren in her home and are
trying to do their busy jobs.
And yet also caretake all the time.
I know that that's been incrediblystressful for people as well.
(08:35):
And in some of the things that Iencourage people to do to speak to
your point of their home all the time.
So work can just go on into the night.
It can start earlier.
There isn't the same constraintsor bookmarks of like I
start work and I end work.
So having people, if they can to setaside a space in their home, even
if it's just a table, Somewhere,and that's just designated for work.
(08:55):
So to have a particular space that'sjust around work and you don't sit
there and do other things, if you can.
And I know not everyone can do that,but if you could even have like a small
quarter, that's just for work and I'vebeen doing that myself, cause I'll notice
the same thing where it's 10 o'clock andI'm doing this or that for my business.
And I'm like, you have to stop.
Yeah.
Danny (09:16):
Okay.
Now I know you mentioned earlierabout the guests that you've been
having on and the conversationsyou've been having on the shores.
And I noticed that there'sa looking at your episodes.
You're up to it's about episode 30, 233 at the moment 33 was the last one.
Yeah.
And it looks like you've got a asolid mix of health professionals.
And then what I would say is normaleveryday people, even though they're
(09:37):
well-known in the field, was thatalways a goal to have a major.
Health conversations as well as, youknow, creatives and professional people,
or did that come about organically?
Alice (09:47):
I think it did come about organically.
I really, my goal with going intoit was to provide the listeners
A wide range of perspectiveson how to move forward in life.
And in the beginning itwas more recovery focused.
I had more kind of recovery coachesor people like that on people
talking about their own recoveryjourneys, but as it's expanded.
(10:09):
Like I was saying earlier, I've reI've really enjoyed the opportunity.
And I know my audience does too, tohave these people from, you know,
from all these various fields andlevels of experience and expertise
that aren't necessarily tied intothe recovery community, but that
do offer it a different perspectiveon what life could be like.
And for me personally, I reallylike talking to people who are.
(10:30):
W living there, their inspiration, youknow, and who are working in a field of
their inspiration, because I think thatjust gives the rest of us the ability
to see, oh, this is possible for me.
And, oh, I can follow someof these things that cause.
And,
Danny (10:46):
And speaking to the guests there's a, as we mentioned has been a wide
variety with very open raw topics at time.
Has it been not to try to put youon the spot or anything, but has it
been possibly like an episode that'sreally stood out or, or impacted you
or of the shows that you've completed?
So.
Alice (11:02):
Oh, that's such a great question.
I don't think anyone'sasked me that before.
You know, I don't, I have my favorites.
I do have summer.
I just really not, you know, not becauseanyone's better than anyone else,
but I've had guests that I've justreally enjoyed and gotten a lot out.
Kirsten Johnson was one of them.
She lives over in Bali and has thisbook called the heartgasm revolution
and she's big in the sober community,but I just loved her story and her
(11:23):
vibe was so infectious and I feel likeshe's one of those people that's really
embodying what she's what she's preaching,you know, what she's working with.
And that was, she was justa delight to speak with.
I had Jason Stevenson on who's.
Someone I've reallyadmired for a long time.
I love his work.
He's a meditation coach andis pretty big on YouTube.
And, you know, my mom loves him,which was, it was exciting for her.
(11:43):
She's a caregiver to interview him.
And so that was neat.
And he was just a lovely guy sometimes.
And the same thing with Bruce Perry,where I'm a big fan of his work.
And so it was neat to justsit down with the person.
I don't know if those have beenhugely impactful on my own personal
life, but I do get somethingout of everyone I speak to.
And I think it really does draw back towhat I was saying earlier that seeing
people that are really living their dreamsand are really inspired and motivated in
(12:07):
their work is definitely just a catalystfor me to continue with my own journey.
And hopefully for the audiences.
Danny (12:14):
Yeah, no.
And I know, I mean, I'm reallyjealous that she lives in Bali.
I did a fly over there once when Iwas in Australia many years ago, and
it was only there for the evening,but it was just an incredible island.
I'm super jealous Rachel
Alice (12:26):
lives there.
I know, I know.
It's me too.
It's coming up on the list.
Danny (12:31):
Yeah.
No, you'd mentioned that the, thepodcast sprung from your own personal
experience and your own sobrietyjourney from the last few years, what
do you feel is the biggest hurdle?
To overcome an addiction, whether it's,you know, substance abuse, alcohol abuse,
et cetera, is there, is there somethingthat, that you find is a sort of, you know
(12:52):
a similar obstacle for most people or,and how do you help with that overcoming?
Alice (12:59):
I think that's a great question as well.
And you know, I don't know ifthere's any one biggest thing.
I think you.
I can speak from my own experience.
Like I really had to get over theidea of Like being able to moderate
or being able to control my drinking.
I had to just accept that.
Like, I can't like alcohol is not for me.
(13:19):
It's just not, I can't drink.
If I do it, it just goes bad.
And I've proven that becauseI've done a lot of research in
that area and my personal life.
And it's not something I can do.
And some people can, some people canmoderate and be very well, but I think
you have to really take an honest look atyourself and if it's something, whatever,
whatever the thing is, if it's somethingthat you, if it's negatively impacting
(13:42):
your life, and that could be, maybe youhave a glass of wine at night, but if
that's keeping you from reaching yourcreative potential and you feel like
you can really do more and offer more.
And be more in your life andthat's keeping you from that.
Then you've got to bereally honest with yourself.
Of what role is the substanceplain for you, or what role is
this behavior playing for you?
And I think if you can get honestwith yourself on that then seek
(14:03):
out community, seek out some kindof support and help around it.
A counselor, whether it's workingwith the coach, whether it's some
kind of a group recovery program,there's tons of different options
for people now around things.
Alcohol in particular, I'm quiteaware of, cause that's the field
that I work in, but there's a milliondifferent options because a lot of
people say, well, I don't want to goto a 12 step thing and that's fine.
(14:25):
There's like 10 other things you can gotry, but you've got to try something.
And, and building that community right.
The central, whoever that's with, butjust to be around other people who can
relate to what you're going through,relate to what you've gone through.
I think that helps.
It's huge.
It's huge for recovery.
Danny (14:41):
I know I've got a friend who you know about his own alcohol addictions.
And one of the things he constantly saidwas the point you made about having that
community network around you, of peoplethat are, have either experienced it
previously, or are currently experiencingbecause they can relate and to know
what you're going through, where tosee a partner or a colleague or a
friend or anything may not be able tounderstand what you're going through
(15:05):
and give you bad advice, even thoughthe things that giving you friendly.
Good advice.
Alice (15:10):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I've had some women who, who havewanted to kind of question their
relationship with alcohol, but oneof the women that I'm working with
currently, she mentioned, oh, you know,this, this person who's close to me
in my life told me, oh, but you neverreally had that much of a problem.
You never heard anyone.
You never were drivingdrunk or anything like that.
But she knew that it wasreally detrimental for her.
So I think if you know, inside, likeit's not always good to listen to those
(15:34):
people that are saying, well, maybeit's not that big of a deal because
they don't, they don't live within you.
So.
You don't trust, trustyourself a bit around that.
If you, if you think it's aproblem, then try not doing it.
That was a wonderful piece of advice.
Actually, a friend gave me, he waslike, just try this for six months.
You can always go back to drinking.
And that really made itvery possible for me.
And I like that perspective.
(15:54):
And I share that frequently becauseit takes this scary nature of, oh my
God, I have to change this forever.
But you can do six months.
Most of us can look at that timeperiod and say, okay, this is doable.
Why don't I try this?
Why don't I do some research with beingsober and see what that feels like?
Danny (16:10):
And I know the and I think a lot of that comes down to like, certainly I,
I look at the UK, it's a very big drinkingculture, drink and mindset culture.
And I compare that tosee in north America.
What of Canada?
The U S.
And it's very different.
And the UK it's celebrated, you know,you're not distrust you unless you
have a beer on hand or something.
So it's interesting to, you know, Icame to Canada 12, 13 years ago almost.
(16:31):
And it's been interesting to, tocontinue to watch my friends back
in the UK and their behaviors andhow that is so different over.
Is it
Alice (16:39):
different in Canada?
What's it like there withthe, with the drinking?
Yeah,
Danny (16:43):
it's it's weird in Canada because it's got Canada's sort of weird halfway
house between the UK and the U S I think,you know, it's like we're closer to the
UK than the us and mindset, but we'reclose to the U S and a lot of things.
So I think there's definitely aparty culture here, but I think
Canadians are, do a better job.
Managing it, you know, they don't havebars up until say 4:00 AM or 24 nightclub
(17:05):
and et cetera that you have in the UK.
And I think that definitely, there'snot like a pub scene, like in the
UK, there's very much a pop scene.
Every lot of times guides at leasttwo or three pubs on the same street.
It's crazy.
Whereas here not so much.
I think that helps for sure.
Alice (17:20):
Definitely does.
Yeah, I would think so.
Danny (17:23):
So with the, the podcast was there, cause obviously you, you
mentioned that you'd started a podcastto a land from your own journey and
share your license and help women,you know, looking to become sober
or continuing a journey of sobriety.
What are any sort of obstacles thatyou had to overcome as a podcast
to coming into the space talkingabout, you know, something that some
people might not want to hear about.
Alice (17:45):
Yeah, definitely.
It's a little scary, particularlythe first couple episodes where
I sort of shared my story.
And I think also getting over thehurdle of being able to interview
people and speak articulately.
There's certainly an art that comeswith that and time helps a lot.
And I've noticed more frequently,I've been guesting on more podcasts
and really sharing a lot of, moreof the details of my own story.
(18:07):
And I went back and listened to one andI definitely had a moment of, because
I know my mom had listened to it andI had this moment of like, wow, that
was really pretty raw and vulnerable.
I just shared all that inthis very public space.
So some of that will come up.
I think as long as, you know, for me,as long as I'm feeling quite grounded
and true to myself, then it's okay.
(18:28):
Because I think being vulnerable andsharing these experiences are what
really can help other people to know.
Okay, I'm not alone.
Other people have gone through this andthey've come out the other side, you
know, and they're not still stuck in thisreally miserable place of, of addiction.
Danny (18:44):
Alright.
And I know you'd mentionedthe, the first few episodes.
What about yourself?
And, you know and you're, youhad lessons as a podcast as well.
So if you were to give advice, like anypiece of advice for either someone is
looking to get into podcasts in, or thehealth professional, like yourself or
someone, that's got your, you know, your,a similar story to yourself and is looking
for an outlet, what would be your pieceof advice for someone looking to begin.
Alice (19:08):
Well, I recently learned about Libsyn as far as a podcast host
and I did my podcast on anchor andthere I'm still currently hosting
it there, but I've recently learneda bit more about why that's not the
best platform and other platforms.
So I think doing a little bit of research,actually on the mechanics of what is a
good platform, talk to other podcasters.
Anytime you want to start somethingnew, talk to someone who's been doing.
(19:31):
And is doing it welland ask them questions.
But I think don't overlook some of thosetechnical things as well of it, especially
if it's a project that you'd like tostart and carry through for a while, see
if you can begin on a platform that'sgoing to grow with you and sustain you.
So speak with someone who's been doingit, someone like yourself, or, you
know, there's so many people that aredoing podcasts and doing quite well.
(19:53):
But ask questions and get started too.
Like, don't be afraid you canorder really basic equipment.
Very inexpensively.
That sounds good.
So don't get hung up on the technicalthings, but getting advice from someone
who has been doing it is always a goodway to start when, when you're beginning
a new journey or a new A new task.
Danny (20:12):
Yep.
And I like the thing you mentioned,you know, it's as great to
start on something like anchor.
That's what I startedoff way back in the day.
And it's a really easy platform andthat'll let you know, dude, is there
something I want to do, you know,in 2, 3, 6 months time, et cetera.
And now you can start to, as youmentioned, you know, start to wear
headphones and know why you should bewearing headphones when you're, you
know, speaking on a podcast recording.
(20:33):
So just to, just to switch it up a littlebit, what's It may not even be an answer.
And that's perfectly fine, cause I knowyou're a very open book when it comes
to about yourself, the show, et cetera.
But what might be something thatnot a lot of people know about
you that may surprise them?
Ah,
Alice (20:47):
oh, that's a great question too.
I am such an open book.
When I lived in Hawaii, Iwas a semi-professional fire
dancer and belly dancer.
And I think some people knowthat I used to belly dance.
I've done a a body of research aroundit as well, but I don't really do
the fire dancing so much anymore.
But when I lived over there, it was great.
(21:08):
I had this group of women and wewould book parties and we got paid.
And that's why I say, say myprofessional, because it was
something we were making money for.
And it was so much fun.
And a lot of people are doing it more.
Now I see it a lot in myneighborhood here in ocean beach.
There's a big fire community and it'spretty cool, but I like to think we
were a little bit cutting edge back thenbecause it wasn't so, so widely popular.
(21:31):
That was a ton of fun.
It's really neat to work with fire and tohave that elemental nature while you're in
really in your body and, you know, movingon the earth and, you know, Hawaii is such
a magical place for all of that to happen.
So,
Danny (21:44):
so how does fire and work?
I seen also ballet dancers andI seen people like walk over
coals and up at fire dancing.
What does that look like?
Alice (21:50):
So there's a couple of different ways.
Like some people will have the longstaffs and then there's different kinds of
wicking material you can put on each end.
I know Canuck is one type andthen there's another type.
I forget the name of it, butit's like a, a substance.
You can dip it in gas.
There's white, you can use white gas iswhat we used to use and then you light it.
And so it'll burn, butit'll stay contained.
You know, WIC primarily.
(22:11):
And so you can have a really bigwick and you get a really big flame
where you can have it smaller.
And I learned with , which istraditional from Hawaii or from
that region from the Pacificisland region, I think maybe Samoa.
And I may be saying that wrong.
So I apologize if I am, but it's liketwo chains and then you have little
balls at the end, so you can kind ofswing them around and dance and it's fun.
(22:34):
Yeah.
It's a lot of fun.
It's neat to work with
Danny (22:36):
fire.
Was it ever any accidents?
Alice (22:40):
I have a little bird.
I got a scar, but nothing major.
No.
And, and I think for those accidents, youlearn really quickly what you shouldn't
be doing and just ways to be careful and.
You know, take precautions.
Danny (22:52):
Yeah, that's cool.
I like the sound of that.
I, I, I seen people know that youmentioned, I've seen people with the,
the ones that are hanging down, likeMacy's old sort of medieval messes
with the balls on fire at the end.
So it's swinging a boat thrownup there and catching it.
It's pretty cool.
It's a little bit.
Well, Dr.
Alice, I really appreciateyou coming on the show today.
It's been a real interesting conversationand I know people take a lot away
(23:13):
from the topics you've been talkingabout for anybody that wants to learn
more, either for themselves or forpartners, our family, et cetera, about
either addiction, recovery, and youknow where to listen to your show
is about these topics, et cetera.
Where's the best place for people to find.
Alice (23:28):
Sure.
So I'm really active on Facebook.
Alice Kirby, there, you can alsocheck out my website, which is
Kirby method, consulting.com.
I have an Instagrampresence too, which is Dr.
Dr.
Alice Kirby.
But on Facebook, I'm onthere pretty regularly.
I do it a lot of live videos.
I talk about some of the trial traumahealing work and just different ways
to, to change our relationship withstress and anxiety and integrate our
(23:50):
nervous system, things like that.
But, yeah, my website's got a lot,all my links and everything as well.
Okay.
Danny (23:57):
Awesome.
So what I'll do, I'll make sure thatI drop all the, the links to your
shore, the website, the Facebook,et cetera, and the show notes.
So if you're listening to this inyour podcast app, be sure to check
the show notes so we can directyou over to where to find Dr.
Alice.
So let's see if I really appreciateyou coming on today, man.
What's your plans for the rest of.
Alice (24:13):
I've got a little bit more work to do, and my partner has the day off.
So I'm hoping I can get him outto the forest to go for a hike.
Danny (24:20):
You'd mentioned that hiking.
So that's a big
Alice (24:21):
thing.
Yeah.
I love it.
That's what I've been doinga lot of during COVID.
So it's, there's an area I discoveredrecently that actually has trees,
which for Southern Califor.
A bit of a rarity.
So I'm hoping I can takehim there this afternoon.
Danny (24:34):
Oh, that's cool.
Hope you enjoy that.
We've we've got the kids they're justdoing some schoolwork at the moment.
I hope they're doing someschoolwork at the moment.
I don't know what they'redoing in this half hour.
I will pull
Alice (24:42):
up.
That's a good
Danny (24:43):
sign.
Well, that's a border, right?
Unless they'll make it ahuge mess somewhere else.
We'll find out.
Well, I hope you enjoy your hike.
And as I say, I reallydo appreciate coming on.
It's been a pleasure having you on.
Alice (24:53):
Thank you so much for having me.
Danny (24:55):
This has been another episode of podcast stories.
If you enjoyed this week's episodeyou know, feel free to leave a
review on iTunes and share withanybody that you feel might enjoy it.
You can find more episodes at PodcasterStories dot com and on your favorite
podcast app, like apple podcast, Googlepodcast, Spotify, and more until the
next time take care and we'll speak soon.
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