October 4, 2023 • 28 mins
In this episode, we're chatting with Alex Sanfilippo of PodPros.com. The question we're addressing - Do Podcast Reviews Really Matter? Tune in to find out!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com.
(00:18):
In today's episode, we're chatting with Alex Sanfilippo of Podprose.
The question we're answering today is do reviews really matter?
Tune in to find out.
Enjoy the show.
But Alex, I'm really excited that you could be here.
(00:39):
You were recommended by so many past guests.
Because when I was asking people, who should we have on the show?
Who do you think would be really good for our audience?
They were like, you got to have Alex.
And so I'm really excited you could be here and welcome to the show.
Can you do us a favor and tell us what it is you do?
Yeah, sure.
Thank you.
What an incredible thing to hear.
That's so humbling and honored.
Thank you.
Yeah, my name is Alex Sanfilippo and I focus on helping independent podcasters.
(01:04):
So I'm 100% podcasting.
It's what I do full time and I serve through creating software solutions that other people
haven't already created.
Just kind of trying to fill in the gaps to make things more frictionless for independent
podcasters that really have a passion, a purpose, a desire to serve people that are listening.
So that's what my company does.
It's called Podprose.
It's kind of like the umbrella, if you will, and everything we do is under that.
(01:24):
And again, all around, can we help podcasters continue to podcast so they can serve the
world and ultimately make it a better place?
Yes.
And one of the things that's under your umbrella is pod lottery.
And that's the thing that got me the most excited.
And here's why.
You know, one of the things that a lot of people talk about whenever they're trying
to figure out how to promote their shows or how to get more people listening is whether
(01:45):
or not reviews matter.
And so my question for you that kind of prompted this whole thing is, in your opinion, in 2023
and beyond, do reviews of a podcast still matter?
You know, I had somebody challenge this idea.
There's other industry guys like, why the heck do we care about reviews?
And the first thing I said, when's the last time you bought something on Amazon or anywhere
(02:07):
where you didn't first see if it had reviews, right?
If it doesn't have reviews at all, major red flag.
If it has bad reviews, whether they're real or fake, in our mind, we're like, I can't
go with that one.
You want to go with the one that has a high quantity of really good reviews.
That's when you're buying a product, when you're buying anything, right?
And so for me, I'm like, hey, if I'm going to listen to a podcast and there's three options
on a similar topic, the one that actually has a review or multiple reviews is probably
(02:31):
the first one we give a shot to.
So to me, yes, it absolutely matters.
Just from first and foremost, from me being a listener standpoint, from that experience,
I'm like, okay, yeah, this one has something, right?
But beyond that, when you're looking at sponsors, when you're looking at partners, the really
only metric that someone from the outside can see is a review.
So again, to answer your question in sort of a long way, Ashley, yes, I think reviews
(02:52):
really matter.
Okay.
So if they matter, how do we get them?
Yeah, there's a lot of ways to do this.
And the first thing I want to mention actually is talking to your listeners.
A lot of hosts do this, but I recently had someone poke a hole in this theory and it
was very interesting to me.
They have a podcast about, for former sex addicts that are coming out of that lifestyle
(03:16):
and they're like, I don't want my listeners to leave reviews because that exposes them.
And I was like, oh shoot.
And they're like, so I would never ask a listener for review.
I'm like, I don't know what to say to you.
Right.
And then I started thinking, I'm like, wait, this isn't the only topic like that.
Like what if you're coming out of domestic abuse, like mostly things that are some sort
of like trauma that's happening in your life, right?
(03:37):
Like or loss, anything like that.
I'm like, yeah, you don't want the listeners to leave reviews because you're going to expose
them.
And the whole thing is they're listening to your podcast because it's safe for them, right?
They can, you don't even know that they're listening, right?
You the host and you want to kind of keep that privacy on some of those topics.
And so again, actually that really poked a hole in that theory.
Now if you have a podcast, it's just about abundance, lifestyle, comedy, those things
(03:59):
by all means, please get very tactful with asking your listeners for reviews.
So I think that's the first point I'd share.
I don't know if you have anything you want to add to that or we want to keep on going
down a list.
No, I just want to keep on going.
Cool.
All right, great.
So really quick on that to get tactful with it.
I think the best way to do it is actually just you, the host ask, but in like a raw,
organic way, like you don't want to be this whole thing on like, Hey everybody, the show
(04:22):
is going great, but I would love for you to leave a five star rating review.
When you do, let me know.
Let's get back to the show, right?
If it's more like, Hey, we're really trying to grow this show and make sure we're getting
the right people listening to it.
Could you share it with somebody you know, who would add value to and while you're at
it, if you could leave us a five star rating review, we'd really appreciate that.
That motivates me to keep on doing this.
I get to read those reviews, so thank you so much in advance.
(04:44):
When you really spin it that way, what a beautiful thing.
And someone who really likes your show, they're going to go take action and do that.
So again, if you have a show in the right style or format where it's safe for someone
to leave a review by all means be asking for it and just try to keep it raw, authentic,
make it feel like they're doing you personally a favor, not you're here to serve the brand.
Right?
Like it's, it's for you and them to have that connection and for you to be able to see that.
(05:06):
I think that again, that's really the step one is to be able to do that.
I got to say the way that you did the example of asking for the review, it's like you've
done it before.
Uh, no comment.
It sounded so good.
You just spit it right out.
Like, no big deal.
You know, it didn't work.
Let's put it that way.
Or a friend, I'm speaking for a friend.
They said it didn't work.
Okay.
It was me.
You know, beyond that, beyond like asking listeners for reviews is leaving frictionless
(05:27):
ways for people to do it.
So there's a bunch of websites that will help you do this, which can link people directly
to the show.
So if you're a regular viewer, you can go to the website, you can go to the website,
it's that will help you do this, which can link people directly to where they can leave
a review.
The first one that comes to mind I really like and use is called pod kite, uh, pod kite.com.
They have a button that will, uh, basically when you're linking to your episode, like
(05:50):
maybe on a blog post, which Ashley, you and I both, uh, we, we, we come from that world,
right?
Uh, we are big proponents of that.
So having that blog post saying, Hey, click here to leave a review for the show and it'll
automatically direct them to where they can do that.
And there's other services that do similar things like that.
Again, making it frictionless, like asking for someone to leave a review, but not explaining
how, where, like why, like all those things is going to make it difficult.
(06:13):
You're like, Hey, leave me a review.
And people are just like, how, where, what do you want?
Right.
And so you want to direct people to that.
And I should really give this disclaimer.
I think that Apple reviews are the best because currently it's the only really big podcast
player.
So there's some small ones that do this, but this is the only big one that allows people
to actually leave a review.
(06:33):
Other places allow you to brief some sort of star rating and maybe that'll change at
some point, but right now the only ones that actually can leave text.
And to be quite frank, I don't know.
Is that just having a star rating is really helpful.
People want to know, okay, is there a human behind that or did this just happen from a
robot?
Right.
So people want to be able to see it.
And that to me means Apple podcast reviews are really, that's the one that we really
(06:54):
need to be after is getting those reviews.
So again, making a frictionless way for people to find out how to do that and linking to
it is another great way to do it.
Now one of the things that you mentioned, but you know, bots and things like that, how
can we tell whether or not we're just getting bombarded with fake reviews?
Do you have anything that we can look for that would tell us like, okay, that's totally
(07:18):
bots?
Yeah.
First off, Apple does a pretty good job of removing these.
I don't know if they review each review, if I can say it that way.
I don't know if they're checking each review, that's better.
But it takes a few days for it to get to show up on Apple.
So I don't know if there's some sort of system behind that, but in general, I want them at
someone span the podcast and my downloads went like through the roof overnight.
(07:41):
I don't know how or why, but I told Apple, I'm like, Hey, I just got like 15 reviews
and they're all nice reviews.
But I'm like, it wasn't good English.
First off, I know most of my audiences in the U S and also it was very, they almost
all said exactly the same thing.
And they're like, yeah, we see it, we'll take care of it.
And then like a day later, they were all gone.
So I think to some sense, Apple will actually remove it at the same time.
(08:04):
I think us humans are pretty good at understanding humans and robots these days.
I think we're only getting better at that.
Right?
So when you read it, you can see if you resonate with it.
It was just like great show five star.
It's like, okay, that doesn't really feel like anything.
One says, I listened to this episode with Ashley.
She's such a smart person.
She helped me as a blogger.
She's helped me as a podcaster over the years.
Right?
Like reading that, you're like, okay, this, this isn't human, right?
(08:25):
Like somebody actually wrote that.
So I think that in many ways it's up to us and thankfully Apple is doing a good job.
I think keeping most of the spam out of it right now.
Yeah.
That's, that's good to hear because I mean, one of the things that's been happening, even
with RSS is sometimes we'll get the most insane reviews and you can tell that they are, have
nothing to do with actually the company itself.
(08:46):
And one of the funny things that's been happening lately is we've been getting reviews for podcasters
on our platform rather than the actual company itself.
So it's kind of funny how that sometimes happens whenever you're like, okay, we're sifting
through this trying to figure out what's real, what's not, what's good, what's not, what's
a bot, what's not.
And so I just, I was just curious about that.
I wondered if you had any thoughts on it.
(09:07):
So I'm glad you did.
So now do you think that in terms of reviews, do you think it has any impact on the SEO
that it's related to trying to get a podcast attention online?
So this is a good point.
And I really dove deep into this and I found a page on Apple's website.
(09:27):
It's public where they literally say a review on Apple does not change anything in the algorithm.
It will not help you.
And so they flat out say this is not going to change anything, but in the day, so it
might not help get you to like top charts, quote unquote, but it does help you with people.
And I think that that's, that to me is what matters more than being on charts, right?
Like that doesn't necessarily help with people, but someone looking at it can see a review
(09:48):
they resonate with.
So from that perspective, I don't think it does anything from an SEO perspective other
than the fact that someone might see it and be like, Ooh, this show has 10 reviews.
All the rest of them are zero.
I'll check that one out first.
I, from what I can tell, that's really it.
What do you think about, what are they called?
Review incentives where like, you know, you'll put them into a lottery if they give you so
(10:11):
many reviews that they will get a prize or possibly get a prize.
What do you think about people that do things like that?
Yeah, gamification among your listeners, incentivizing them to leave reviews can be a really fun
thing.
It can build fans for sure.
And some hosts go as far as reading the winners reviews or they read one a week and people
are leaving them for that reason.
If you can incentivize around it, as long as it's done tastefully and not in a way that
(10:35):
feels like spam, right?
If you're talking to your listeners being like, Hey, if you've listened to this podcast
and you like it, I'm going to start reading reviews every week.
Would love for you to leave one more people are going to leave them because they're like,
Oh, I want to hear my name on my podcast.
I like to listen to you.
Right.
If you have a private community, let's just use example of Facebook group.
It's an easy, easy one to use as an example.
Right.
If you run some sort of contest among your listeners saying, Hey, I'm going to anyone
(10:56):
who leaves a review this week, I'm going to give this right.
Whatever the podcast is about.
Um, then yeah, I think there's no problem with that.
And I would always add the disclaimer personally to make sure it comes from integrity.
Like I would even for me, I say it doesn't even need to be a five star rating and review.
It can be like, just give me your honest feedback on the show.
It's not going to change the fact whether you win or not.
(11:17):
I just wanted to be authentic.
And I always personally like to add that.
Um, I think that's a really important point to add, but I'm all for that stuff.
I think if you can gamify a little bit and get your, your fans and listeners engaged,
why not?
It builds more, I guess it builds a stronger fan base.
Yeah.
It helps build community too.
And I like the idea that you mentioned of, of reading the, the reviews on the air, so
(11:37):
to speak.
I mean, I know it's not, we're not broadcasting on, on radio waves, but what radio background,
I can't help it.
So it just, it feels kind of cool to like actually give someone a shout out.
And so I like that idea a lot.
Yeah.
I think that's something you can do.
You know, I want to, if you don't mind, I'll riff on something that's a side note here.
Um, if that's okay.
(11:57):
Yes, go for it.
So I mentioned like making sure it's an authentic review.
A lot of podcasters I meet, they start getting reviews and someone leaves a four star review,
a three star review to a one star review and they get really upset and they're like, this
is going to damage our reputation.
I'm done.
I'm through, I'm over.
And I, I want to challenge that belief because I think that's a really wrong perspective.
(12:20):
As a matter of fact, if you have fans of what you're doing, the way you can actually create
someone who's just a listener into a fan is to prove somebody wrong.
And all of us, let's, let's face it.
If you go to Amazon and you're going to buy something, the first thing you click is the
one star review.
Like what are the complaints about this thing?
Right.
And the thing is you might look at it and be like, that's the most ridiculous, dumb
reason to leave a one star review of everything in my life.
(12:41):
I'm buying this just out of spite for that person.
The truth is you might get new listeners because they're like this idiot.
Look, look, look what he said about this person.
They don't sound like that.
And I'm going to leave them a really nice five star review and 10, my friends are going
to do it too, because this person's a loser.
Right.
I know I'm being extreme, but the truth is sometimes your best, most helpful review is
the one that's the most negative because people are going to want to prove that wrong because
(13:03):
they grow to like you and it'll expedite their ability to become a fan of yours.
A lot of people don't agree with what I'm sharing right now, Ashley, but I really believe
is you can get that one star review, not a hundred of them, right?
But you can get that one, one star review from just the person who's a jerk, right?
Or for whatever reason, just didn't resonate with you.
Don't look at that as a negative thing.
That is a positive because also if I have a thousand five star reviews and no one's
(13:25):
ever said anything bad about me, that doesn't seem believable.
I talk too fast.
I'm too loud.
I don't speak in good sound bites, right?
Like all those things are real.
So I get a three star review about that.
People are like, Oh wow, cool.
Alex is a real human.
Someone doesn't like him.
Right.
So I think you need to actually think of that as a positive, not a negative, but teaching
people that mindset.
I had somebody who was so angry at me when I shared that with him.
(13:46):
I mean, he was, he was ready to leave me a one star review because he's like, this is
the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
He goes, your reputation matters.
It has to always be five star.
I'm like, I don't subscribe to that.
Right.
So, uh, but I think there's a kind of challenge to think on that.
A one star review isn't as negative as you may think.
Absolutely not.
Cause I mean, I've seen one star reviews where the person didn't like the host's name.
(14:07):
They didn't like their last name.
They're like, I can't believe they even said their name in the, in the episode.
It's like, really?
Like that's why you left a one star review.
And it's, it's amusing to me why people will sometimes leave negative reviews, especially
when you know, you can tell that sometimes they're just in a bad mood that day or they
didn't like the specific topic.
And so I agree that, you know, if you, if you are going to leave a one star review,
(14:30):
it doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
And the harder part, the thing that no one's going to want to hear, but I'm going to, I'm
going to kind of lean into the mic and I'm going to really say this.
Sometimes you need to hear those horrible reviews so you can fix something.
Would you agree with that?
Yes, through and through, we're, this is changing topics.
We're not even in podcast anymore, but we're, we're fragile.
(14:51):
Let's be real.
Like, and maybe it's just the times that we're in, but like the truth be told, like our egos
get hurt real bad, but I had a three star review where somebody told me Alex doesn't
pause when he talks and he talks too fast and too loud.
And I actually was like, man, they're a hundred percent right.
Like I, not that I need to change who I am, but I do need to learn to not be so loud,
to slow down, to take a breath.
Right.
(15:11):
And those are things that I am actively working on.
I saw that and appreciated it.
I had somebody the same week come to me and be like, this person left me a four star review
because they said my intros are just too long.
Like how long are your intros?
Like eight minutes.
I was like eight minutes.
I'm like, yeah, they are too long.
They're like, no, they're not.
This is what my listeners like.
I'm like, I, I didn't say it, but I'm like, I doubt that no one wants to hear you just
riff for eight minutes before you get into your interview.
Right.
(15:31):
So, and I'm like, Hey, maybe there's something there.
Have you looked at the data?
No, but they're wrong.
I'm like, okay.
So yeah, people get really upset with hearing that, but hey, listen, have a growth mindset.
Like we're not perfect.
We're all on a journey.
We're all on it, like a hunt in our own adventure.
Right.
Take it as something that you might be able to improve.
And I think, I love that you said that actually, I think that's a really important point.
Yeah.
Cause I mean, you know, we had, we had Joe Pardo on several episodes back and we were
(15:56):
talking about trolls and haters.
And you know, one of the things that kept coming up is that, you know, sometimes people
are just really vile, but it's like, you can't, you can't focus on that negativity.
Sometimes you have to just hear the criticism and decide, is this constructive?
Is it helpful?
Am I going to use this or am I just going to be like, that guy was a jerk and I'm done?
Right.
(16:16):
Yeah.
Keep going.
So true.
Yeah.
I like to say that I'm not everybody's cup of tequila, but that's okay.
You seem like mine and I love tequila.
So yeah, I'm, I'm on board.
Good, good.
Well, what else would you like to share with me about reviews?
Like what else do we really need to hear to help the listeners?
Yeah.
And I have another idea around, around gaining reviews.
(16:38):
And this actually kind of blurs the line into also knowing your audience really well, which
I think the two can be connected and can almost be your metric.
So for me, what's really important, I think in podcasting, probably in my mind, the most
important thing is to actually talk to your listeners.
So how do you find them?
They're engaging on social media.
They're emailing you, they're messaging you just, you know, it's like liking something,
(16:59):
find a way to contact them and just say, Hey, saw you like this.
Any chance that you, if you listen to the podcast, would you be willing to give me 10
minutes on a video conference call?
Might be a little bit uncomfortable, but the truth is if you can get on that call, this
is the bonus material here, by the way, you can learn a lot from your listeners.
Ask them how they found the show.
Ask them what they like about it.
Ask what you think, would they, would they think you can do better for future listeners?
(17:22):
Ask what they're struggling with.
When you learn these things and you log that through an Excel spreadsheet, I am telling
you what 10, 20 people later, you can learn how to really, really, really, really, really
improve your podcast.
Bringing that back to reviews now after that call, because most of your listeners will
be very psyched to hear from you.
Be like, Hey, really enjoy our time together.
Hey, real quick while we're on, can you open up your, you have an iPhone or do you have
iTunes?
(17:42):
Can you go to Apple podcasts real quick?
I'd love it if you'd leave me a quick review on the podcast, guide them through it.
The thing is that could also be your metric for how many times you're getting on a call.
If you're like, you know what?
I want to get 20 reviews a month.
Maybe you need to be doing 20 calls a month because that's going to make you a better
podcastor, but also you now have the proof that yeah, I'm becoming a better podcaster
while I'm also growing my reviews.
Those two things go hand in hand.
(18:03):
I think that if podcasters start doing that, you'll find you exponentially accelerate your
ability to grow and really impact an audience.
So I completely agree with every single thing you've said, especially the one thing that
really hit me was you mentioned PodKite earlier and how you have to make it stupid simple
for someone to leave reviews.
(18:24):
So is that the first thing that you would do if you were trying to get people to start
leaving them for you is make it seamless or would you start putting it into your podcast
episodes and then go from there?
What do you think is the best first step?
First step is definitely make it as seamless as you possibly can.
You've got to find a way just to make it stupid simple.
Even if you're calling it out on your show, say, hey, go to my website, podpros, go to
(18:46):
podpros.com slash review and it'll send you straight to a link to it.
I have a friend, she went so far as to do a quick video.
She did like a quick reel and she just links that in one of her pages showing you exactly
how to do it.
So it's like 35 seconds.
It's like, here's how you leave a review on my show.
And I was like, man, that's, I put it, I was like, can I take that?
I'm like, I'll give you credit.
I'm going to embed that in my page where I teach people how to do it.
(19:07):
Cause I'm like, that's so helpful.
Cause now if you want to say to me, I'm like, I can't figure it out.
I'm done.
You give them a link.
You make it stupid simple.
Right.
And I think that that's the first thing is we got to remove the friction involved in
it.
I think we have to do that with everything.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, that's the whole reason I like RSS personally is because of the fact
that it's so stupid, simple that even I could do it.
Cause I'm not tech savvy at all.
It starts with the name RSS.
(19:28):
I mean, that's what podcasting is.
So yeah, you all, you all got it right from start to finish for sure.
Yeah.
Talk about SEO.
Like I'm brilliant, right?
Right.
No kidding.
Well, where can people find you online if they want to learn more about you?
Yeah.
Everything I do is at podpros.com.
So you can just go to podpros.com.
You'll see my podcast.
You'll see all the different product services I have.
(19:49):
And I think that that's a great place for people to go.
Well, there's also one question I have to ask you before I let you go.
It's the question I ask everyone.
What is one question I didn't ask you really wish I had?
I guess we should have gotten into pod lottery.
Maybe that doesn't mean we didn't even talk about it.
I just realized, cause that is an alternative.
That's another way.
I didn't even mention it.
We should probably go into that real quick.
(20:10):
Sorry.
Let's go into it.
Cause I'm like thinking like that.
I miss anything.
I'm like, wait, yeah, I did miss something.
So what is pod lottery?
Okay.
Thank you.
Pod lottery.
I should have brought this up earlier.
Pod lottery is an alternative solution for getting more reviews on your podcast, specifically
Apple reviews.
And the idea was, could we do like a peer to peer type of thing?
It almost feels like a review swap among podcasts host specifically, but do it in a fun, gamified
(20:34):
way.
So we built it to be like a lottery system.
So I'll explain the whole thing and how it works.
You register as a host.
You get a ticket with that ticket.
You pick a number and every night numbers are drawn.
If your number is picked, you win reviews from other podcast host.
When they review your show, they win a ticket.
They get a number.
They get a chance to win.
So it kind of turns into a review swap and we've got people that have literally 100s
(20:55):
of reviews.
Like sometimes I don't know how you get so lucky, but some, we have like five numbers
get drawn and they had four of them.
Right.
And I think it got like 163 reviews.
I was like, wow.
So they get 163 reviews from other podcasters, but we actually worked directly with Apple
on this.
This is a really important point.
We can validate a listen and we can validate that it's a review left from a place of authenticity
(21:16):
and integrity.
So it's not copy pasted.
It's not the same one they just left.
It has more than 10 words.
It doesn't have profanity in it, right.
Unless it's fitting, I suppose.
Right.
So, but they also, again, validate the listen.
So again, we can make sure this comes from a place of integrity.
And that for us has been a really, just a fun thing.
It's free.
There's no charge involved, but it's like, Hey, can we help each other get more reviews
(21:37):
so we can make sure that our podcasts are getting known?
They're getting noticed.
I mean, that just sounds like really cool.
So how do people start like working with pod lottery?
Like what do they need to do to be able to get on it?
You go to podlottery.com, you register the account.
The two things that they ask you for is to validate that you're the podcast host you
say you are.
So they'll just email you a quick little code to make sure that that's you.
(22:00):
And then the second thing they'll do is ask you for your podcast reviewer name.
So that's your name in iTunes or an Apple of like what it says when you leave a review,
right?
To make sure that we can actually validate that you're leaving review.
Those are the two things that ask for and pass that it's free.
You can play every day if you want.
Really?
It's free.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, it was just something fun.
(22:20):
Like I actually, you know, it's funny.
Here's my accountability.
Ashley, it has the word lottery in it and it works like a lottery.
It is illegal in the United States to charge for anything that's a lottery or sweepstakes
of any kind.
That government has the monopoly on that.
So that's why the government runs all of them.
So I told my lawyer, he's like, do not do this.
He's like, unless you're not going to charge.
I'm like, I'm not going to charge.
He goes, good.
If you, if you charge for it, you're going to jail.
I was like, cool.
(22:40):
That's perfect accountability.
I was never playing on charging anyway.
It's just for fun.
So it worked out really great.
That's awesome.
So, I mean, that's actually a really neat idea.
I didn't even know that it was free.
So that's even, even more reason that people should sign up for it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's been fun.
You know, at the end of the day, I'm a podcaster myself, an indie podcaster and getting reviews
matters for me as well.
And so it's been a really fun community building thing.
(23:02):
And also you pick the categories you want.
So like I only, true crime scares the mess out of me, Ashley.
I'm just going to be real.
So I don't want to review any true crime podcasts because I have to listen to them.
So I, I focus in like, uh, in anything that's like mindset related entrepreneurship, business
marketing, right?
And I have found shows that become shows I listened to through this.
So I'm not only getting to leave them a review and a rating, but I'm also like, this is a
(23:23):
cool show.
I like this.
I'm going to, I'm going to keep this one going.
I'm going to subscribe to this one.
Right?
So that's been kind of the bonus fun is it's built a little bit of a community and I love
that.
That's like my favorite thing ever.
Well, because you said the niches that I'm all about, what are your favorite podcasts?
Putting you on the spot.
I have so many favorite podcasts.
I've been really enjoying, uh, the James Altucher show.
(23:44):
Okay.
He's a six, just so unique.
I call him the most interesting entrepreneur in the world.
Like a play on the most interesting man in the world.
The guy's just like totally unique, totally different.
Uh, and the other one is the Jordan Harbinger show is the one I've been listening to a lot.
He's just such a good podcast host.
Like it blows my mind how good he is.
Um, those are my two that I'm kind of like really all about right now.
(24:04):
And then I always look up topics.
So I like kind of go deep into like the podcasting world by looking up, I want 10 episodes on
this and I'll go find them.
But those are the two like shows I'm currently into.
I love that you said James Altucher because, um, his book, choose yourself is one of the
reasons that I decided I was going to stay freelance instead of trying to get a full
time job.
Uh, just reading about how he was voluntarily homeless basically.
(24:25):
And um, all the stuff that he went through just, it's wild that you in this day and age
can like pull a Jack Reacher and be homeless on purpose.
And so that's just what, that's what drew me to him.
And so yeah, big band.
So very, very excited that you mentioned him.
So cool.
I love that.
New episodes anymore.
I don't, I'm, I'm like, I'm a backlog guy.
(24:47):
I'm never real time.
I love them.
People are like, I haven't, they're like, you're listening to what episode?
Like episode 50, like dude, I'm an episode 400.
I'm like, I know I'm, I'm like, wait, I'm not there.
Like leave me alone.
Right?
I'll get there eventually.
If you stop, I'll catch up.
So.
And fun fact, one of the reasons I actually like to go to the backlog sometimes is I like
to see where someone started versus where they are now.
(25:09):
It's the journey, right?
Like when you listen to something, it's like, okay, I'm going to skip your 20 year journey
and just get to where you are now.
I'm like, wow, this person is so impressive.
I prefer to hear, wow, you got some work to do to hearing the transformation happen.
I, I'm, I think you and I are really similar, Ashley.
We're best friends, I think.
Yeah.
Did we, did we just become best friends?
We were a bit at Zine and Nesta Brothers.
Good quote.
Yes.
(25:29):
And yes, the answer is yes.
Awesome.
Awesome.
I'm very excited.
I could always use more bloggy friends.
Oh wait, wrong show.
Nice.
So, um, is there anything else that you want to share that I, that I haven't brought up
yet?
Because I want to make sure that you get everything in here that you want to talk about.
Yeah.
The last thing I'll mention is just around why all this really matters.
(25:50):
And to me, everything that we do as independent podcasters has to be to serve the person who's
going to be listening.
Sure we can work on our cover art, our abilities as hosts.
That's super important, right?
Like we can come up with a better title description.
We can get better mics and all that.
At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is are we serving the person
on the other side of the mic?
(26:11):
Are we serving that person who's listening?
At the end of the day, I think there's no better medium for really providing potential
transformation in people's lives than podcasting.
So it's all about that.
And if having more reviews makes that an easier decision for them to enter your world, then
so be it.
Let's work on that.
Let's do that.
Let's focus on what really matters, which is changing that person's life who's listening
(26:32):
to you.
Oh God, that is so good.
It really is because the big thing is so many people, whenever they come into this medium,
they realize how much work it is and then they start to freak out and then they're like,
well, is it even worth it?
Shouldn't I just start making a bunch of money and all those things?
But when you push all that aside and just remember the person who's got their headphones
on and is listening to you, that's when the magic happens.
(26:57):
And so I hope that people listening today heard something that kind of lit them up and
got them excited, not only about podcasting, but about taking the chance to ask people
to leave them for reviews, because, you know, building this community and building something
around an idea, it's just magical.
Yeah, that's my Disney moment.
(27:18):
I love it.
What a great way to end that.
Well, Alex, I want to thank you so much for being on the show today.
You've shared a lot of amazing information with us and I hope that people will actually
take that and start using it.
I know I certainly will because I need some reviews.
Spoiler alert, I have none, but I will work on that now.
You're going to get one now.
I believe in you, Ashley.
You're going to make it happen.
I'll leave you one.
Draw me a link and I'll leave you one.
(27:38):
I love it.
I love it.
And I will definitely be signing up for Pod Lottery.
Since it's free.
Well, my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips, and ideas that we've shared
in this episode.
To learn more about launching and growing your own show, head over to rss.com backslash
(28:01):
blog.
And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with
your first episode on us.
Thanks for tuning in.
Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com.
(00:18):
In today's episode, we're chatting with Alex Sanfilippo of Podprose.
The question we're answering today is do reviews really matter?
Tune in to find out.
Enjoy the show.
But Alex, I'm really excited that you could be here.
(00:39):
You were recommended by so many past guests.
Because when I was asking people, who should we have on the show?
Who do you think would be really good for our audience?
They were like, you got to have Alex.
And so I'm really excited you could be here and welcome to the show.
Can you do us a favor and tell us what it is you do?
Yeah, sure.
Thank you.
What an incredible thing to hear.
That's so humbling and honored.
Thank you.
Yeah, my name is Alex Sanfilippo and I focus on helping independent podcasters.
(01:04):
So I'm 100% podcasting.
It's what I do full time and I serve through creating software solutions that other people
haven't already created.
Just kind of trying to fill in the gaps to make things more frictionless for independent
podcasters that really have a passion, a purpose, a desire to serve people that are listening.
So that's what my company does.
It's called Podprose.
It's kind of like the umbrella, if you will, and everything we do is under that.
(01:24):
And again, all around, can we help podcasters continue to podcast so they can serve the
world and ultimately make it a better place?
Yes.
And one of the things that's under your umbrella is pod lottery.
And that's the thing that got me the most excited.
And here's why.
You know, one of the things that a lot of people talk about whenever they're trying
to figure out how to promote their shows or how to get more people listening is whether
(01:45):
or not reviews matter.
And so my question for you that kind of prompted this whole thing is, in your opinion, in 2023
and beyond, do reviews of a podcast still matter?
You know, I had somebody challenge this idea.
There's other industry guys like, why the heck do we care about reviews?
And the first thing I said, when's the last time you bought something on Amazon or anywhere
(02:07):
where you didn't first see if it had reviews, right?
If it doesn't have reviews at all, major red flag.
If it has bad reviews, whether they're real or fake, in our mind, we're like, I can't
go with that one.
You want to go with the one that has a high quantity of really good reviews.
That's when you're buying a product, when you're buying anything, right?
And so for me, I'm like, hey, if I'm going to listen to a podcast and there's three options
on a similar topic, the one that actually has a review or multiple reviews is probably
(02:31):
the first one we give a shot to.
So to me, yes, it absolutely matters.
Just from first and foremost, from me being a listener standpoint, from that experience,
I'm like, okay, yeah, this one has something, right?
But beyond that, when you're looking at sponsors, when you're looking at partners, the really
only metric that someone from the outside can see is a review.
So again, to answer your question in sort of a long way, Ashley, yes, I think reviews
(02:52):
really matter.
Okay.
So if they matter, how do we get them?
Yeah, there's a lot of ways to do this.
And the first thing I want to mention actually is talking to your listeners.
A lot of hosts do this, but I recently had someone poke a hole in this theory and it
was very interesting to me.
They have a podcast about, for former sex addicts that are coming out of that lifestyle
(03:16):
and they're like, I don't want my listeners to leave reviews because that exposes them.
And I was like, oh shoot.
And they're like, so I would never ask a listener for review.
I'm like, I don't know what to say to you.
Right.
And then I started thinking, I'm like, wait, this isn't the only topic like that.
Like what if you're coming out of domestic abuse, like mostly things that are some sort
of like trauma that's happening in your life, right?
(03:37):
Like or loss, anything like that.
I'm like, yeah, you don't want the listeners to leave reviews because you're going to expose
them.
And the whole thing is they're listening to your podcast because it's safe for them, right?
They can, you don't even know that they're listening, right?
You the host and you want to kind of keep that privacy on some of those topics.
And so again, actually that really poked a hole in that theory.
Now if you have a podcast, it's just about abundance, lifestyle, comedy, those things
(03:59):
by all means, please get very tactful with asking your listeners for reviews.
So I think that's the first point I'd share.
I don't know if you have anything you want to add to that or we want to keep on going
down a list.
No, I just want to keep on going.
Cool.
All right, great.
So really quick on that to get tactful with it.
I think the best way to do it is actually just you, the host ask, but in like a raw,
organic way, like you don't want to be this whole thing on like, Hey everybody, the show
(04:22):
is going great, but I would love for you to leave a five star rating review.
When you do, let me know.
Let's get back to the show, right?
If it's more like, Hey, we're really trying to grow this show and make sure we're getting
the right people listening to it.
Could you share it with somebody you know, who would add value to and while you're at
it, if you could leave us a five star rating review, we'd really appreciate that.
That motivates me to keep on doing this.
I get to read those reviews, so thank you so much in advance.
(04:44):
When you really spin it that way, what a beautiful thing.
And someone who really likes your show, they're going to go take action and do that.
So again, if you have a show in the right style or format where it's safe for someone
to leave a review by all means be asking for it and just try to keep it raw, authentic,
make it feel like they're doing you personally a favor, not you're here to serve the brand.
Right?
Like it's, it's for you and them to have that connection and for you to be able to see that.
(05:06):
I think that again, that's really the step one is to be able to do that.
I got to say the way that you did the example of asking for the review, it's like you've
done it before.
Uh, no comment.
It sounded so good.
You just spit it right out.
Like, no big deal.
You know, it didn't work.
Let's put it that way.
Or a friend, I'm speaking for a friend.
They said it didn't work.
Okay.
It was me.
You know, beyond that, beyond like asking listeners for reviews is leaving frictionless
(05:27):
ways for people to do it.
So there's a bunch of websites that will help you do this, which can link people directly
to the show.
So if you're a regular viewer, you can go to the website, you can go to the website,
it's that will help you do this, which can link people directly to where they can leave
a review.
The first one that comes to mind I really like and use is called pod kite, uh, pod kite.com.
They have a button that will, uh, basically when you're linking to your episode, like
(05:50):
maybe on a blog post, which Ashley, you and I both, uh, we, we, we come from that world,
right?
Uh, we are big proponents of that.
So having that blog post saying, Hey, click here to leave a review for the show and it'll
automatically direct them to where they can do that.
And there's other services that do similar things like that.
Again, making it frictionless, like asking for someone to leave a review, but not explaining
how, where, like why, like all those things is going to make it difficult.
(06:13):
You're like, Hey, leave me a review.
And people are just like, how, where, what do you want?
Right.
And so you want to direct people to that.
And I should really give this disclaimer.
I think that Apple reviews are the best because currently it's the only really big podcast
player.
So there's some small ones that do this, but this is the only big one that allows people
to actually leave a review.
(06:33):
Other places allow you to brief some sort of star rating and maybe that'll change at
some point, but right now the only ones that actually can leave text.
And to be quite frank, I don't know.
Is that just having a star rating is really helpful.
People want to know, okay, is there a human behind that or did this just happen from a
robot?
Right.
So people want to be able to see it.
And that to me means Apple podcast reviews are really, that's the one that we really
(06:54):
need to be after is getting those reviews.
So again, making a frictionless way for people to find out how to do that and linking to
it is another great way to do it.
Now one of the things that you mentioned, but you know, bots and things like that, how
can we tell whether or not we're just getting bombarded with fake reviews?
Do you have anything that we can look for that would tell us like, okay, that's totally
(07:18):
bots?
Yeah.
First off, Apple does a pretty good job of removing these.
I don't know if they review each review, if I can say it that way.
I don't know if they're checking each review, that's better.
But it takes a few days for it to get to show up on Apple.
So I don't know if there's some sort of system behind that, but in general, I want them at
someone span the podcast and my downloads went like through the roof overnight.
(07:41):
I don't know how or why, but I told Apple, I'm like, Hey, I just got like 15 reviews
and they're all nice reviews.
But I'm like, it wasn't good English.
First off, I know most of my audiences in the U S and also it was very, they almost
all said exactly the same thing.
And they're like, yeah, we see it, we'll take care of it.
And then like a day later, they were all gone.
So I think to some sense, Apple will actually remove it at the same time.
(08:04):
I think us humans are pretty good at understanding humans and robots these days.
I think we're only getting better at that.
Right?
So when you read it, you can see if you resonate with it.
It was just like great show five star.
It's like, okay, that doesn't really feel like anything.
One says, I listened to this episode with Ashley.
She's such a smart person.
She helped me as a blogger.
She's helped me as a podcaster over the years.
Right?
Like reading that, you're like, okay, this, this isn't human, right?
(08:25):
Like somebody actually wrote that.
So I think that in many ways it's up to us and thankfully Apple is doing a good job.
I think keeping most of the spam out of it right now.
Yeah.
That's, that's good to hear because I mean, one of the things that's been happening, even
with RSS is sometimes we'll get the most insane reviews and you can tell that they are, have
nothing to do with actually the company itself.
(08:46):
And one of the funny things that's been happening lately is we've been getting reviews for podcasters
on our platform rather than the actual company itself.
So it's kind of funny how that sometimes happens whenever you're like, okay, we're sifting
through this trying to figure out what's real, what's not, what's good, what's not, what's
a bot, what's not.
And so I just, I was just curious about that.
I wondered if you had any thoughts on it.
(09:07):
So I'm glad you did.
So now do you think that in terms of reviews, do you think it has any impact on the SEO
that it's related to trying to get a podcast attention online?
So this is a good point.
And I really dove deep into this and I found a page on Apple's website.
(09:27):
It's public where they literally say a review on Apple does not change anything in the algorithm.
It will not help you.
And so they flat out say this is not going to change anything, but in the day, so it
might not help get you to like top charts, quote unquote, but it does help you with people.
And I think that that's, that to me is what matters more than being on charts, right?
Like that doesn't necessarily help with people, but someone looking at it can see a review
(09:48):
they resonate with.
So from that perspective, I don't think it does anything from an SEO perspective other
than the fact that someone might see it and be like, Ooh, this show has 10 reviews.
All the rest of them are zero.
I'll check that one out first.
I, from what I can tell, that's really it.
What do you think about, what are they called?
Review incentives where like, you know, you'll put them into a lottery if they give you so
(10:11):
many reviews that they will get a prize or possibly get a prize.
What do you think about people that do things like that?
Yeah, gamification among your listeners, incentivizing them to leave reviews can be a really fun
thing.
It can build fans for sure.
And some hosts go as far as reading the winners reviews or they read one a week and people
are leaving them for that reason.
If you can incentivize around it, as long as it's done tastefully and not in a way that
(10:35):
feels like spam, right?
If you're talking to your listeners being like, Hey, if you've listened to this podcast
and you like it, I'm going to start reading reviews every week.
Would love for you to leave one more people are going to leave them because they're like,
Oh, I want to hear my name on my podcast.
I like to listen to you.
Right.
If you have a private community, let's just use example of Facebook group.
It's an easy, easy one to use as an example.
Right.
If you run some sort of contest among your listeners saying, Hey, I'm going to anyone
(10:56):
who leaves a review this week, I'm going to give this right.
Whatever the podcast is about.
Um, then yeah, I think there's no problem with that.
And I would always add the disclaimer personally to make sure it comes from integrity.
Like I would even for me, I say it doesn't even need to be a five star rating and review.
It can be like, just give me your honest feedback on the show.
It's not going to change the fact whether you win or not.
(11:17):
I just wanted to be authentic.
And I always personally like to add that.
Um, I think that's a really important point to add, but I'm all for that stuff.
I think if you can gamify a little bit and get your, your fans and listeners engaged,
why not?
It builds more, I guess it builds a stronger fan base.
Yeah.
It helps build community too.
And I like the idea that you mentioned of, of reading the, the reviews on the air, so
(11:37):
to speak.
I mean, I know it's not, we're not broadcasting on, on radio waves, but what radio background,
I can't help it.
So it just, it feels kind of cool to like actually give someone a shout out.
And so I like that idea a lot.
Yeah.
I think that's something you can do.
You know, I want to, if you don't mind, I'll riff on something that's a side note here.
Um, if that's okay.
(11:57):
Yes, go for it.
So I mentioned like making sure it's an authentic review.
A lot of podcasters I meet, they start getting reviews and someone leaves a four star review,
a three star review to a one star review and they get really upset and they're like, this
is going to damage our reputation.
I'm done.
I'm through, I'm over.
And I, I want to challenge that belief because I think that's a really wrong perspective.
(12:20):
As a matter of fact, if you have fans of what you're doing, the way you can actually create
someone who's just a listener into a fan is to prove somebody wrong.
And all of us, let's, let's face it.
If you go to Amazon and you're going to buy something, the first thing you click is the
one star review.
Like what are the complaints about this thing?
Right.
And the thing is you might look at it and be like, that's the most ridiculous, dumb
reason to leave a one star review of everything in my life.
(12:41):
I'm buying this just out of spite for that person.
The truth is you might get new listeners because they're like this idiot.
Look, look, look what he said about this person.
They don't sound like that.
And I'm going to leave them a really nice five star review and 10, my friends are going
to do it too, because this person's a loser.
Right.
I know I'm being extreme, but the truth is sometimes your best, most helpful review is
the one that's the most negative because people are going to want to prove that wrong because
(13:03):
they grow to like you and it'll expedite their ability to become a fan of yours.
A lot of people don't agree with what I'm sharing right now, Ashley, but I really believe
is you can get that one star review, not a hundred of them, right?
But you can get that one, one star review from just the person who's a jerk, right?
Or for whatever reason, just didn't resonate with you.
Don't look at that as a negative thing.
That is a positive because also if I have a thousand five star reviews and no one's
(13:25):
ever said anything bad about me, that doesn't seem believable.
I talk too fast.
I'm too loud.
I don't speak in good sound bites, right?
Like all those things are real.
So I get a three star review about that.
People are like, Oh wow, cool.
Alex is a real human.
Someone doesn't like him.
Right.
So I think you need to actually think of that as a positive, not a negative, but teaching
people that mindset.
I had somebody who was so angry at me when I shared that with him.
(13:46):
I mean, he was, he was ready to leave me a one star review because he's like, this is
the most absurd thing I've ever heard.
He goes, your reputation matters.
It has to always be five star.
I'm like, I don't subscribe to that.
Right.
So, uh, but I think there's a kind of challenge to think on that.
A one star review isn't as negative as you may think.
Absolutely not.
Cause I mean, I've seen one star reviews where the person didn't like the host's name.
(14:07):
They didn't like their last name.
They're like, I can't believe they even said their name in the, in the episode.
It's like, really?
Like that's why you left a one star review.
And it's, it's amusing to me why people will sometimes leave negative reviews, especially
when you know, you can tell that sometimes they're just in a bad mood that day or they
didn't like the specific topic.
And so I agree that, you know, if you, if you are going to leave a one star review,
(14:30):
it doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
And the harder part, the thing that no one's going to want to hear, but I'm going to, I'm
going to kind of lean into the mic and I'm going to really say this.
Sometimes you need to hear those horrible reviews so you can fix something.
Would you agree with that?
Yes, through and through, we're, this is changing topics.
We're not even in podcast anymore, but we're, we're fragile.
(14:51):
Let's be real.
Like, and maybe it's just the times that we're in, but like the truth be told, like our egos
get hurt real bad, but I had a three star review where somebody told me Alex doesn't
pause when he talks and he talks too fast and too loud.
And I actually was like, man, they're a hundred percent right.
Like I, not that I need to change who I am, but I do need to learn to not be so loud,
to slow down, to take a breath.
Right.
(15:11):
And those are things that I am actively working on.
I saw that and appreciated it.
I had somebody the same week come to me and be like, this person left me a four star review
because they said my intros are just too long.
Like how long are your intros?
Like eight minutes.
I was like eight minutes.
I'm like, yeah, they are too long.
They're like, no, they're not.
This is what my listeners like.
I'm like, I, I didn't say it, but I'm like, I doubt that no one wants to hear you just
riff for eight minutes before you get into your interview.
Right.
(15:31):
So, and I'm like, Hey, maybe there's something there.
Have you looked at the data?
No, but they're wrong.
I'm like, okay.
So yeah, people get really upset with hearing that, but hey, listen, have a growth mindset.
Like we're not perfect.
We're all on a journey.
We're all on it, like a hunt in our own adventure.
Right.
Take it as something that you might be able to improve.
And I think, I love that you said that actually, I think that's a really important point.
Yeah.
Cause I mean, you know, we had, we had Joe Pardo on several episodes back and we were
(15:56):
talking about trolls and haters.
And you know, one of the things that kept coming up is that, you know, sometimes people
are just really vile, but it's like, you can't, you can't focus on that negativity.
Sometimes you have to just hear the criticism and decide, is this constructive?
Is it helpful?
Am I going to use this or am I just going to be like, that guy was a jerk and I'm done?
Right.
(16:16):
Yeah.
Keep going.
So true.
Yeah.
I like to say that I'm not everybody's cup of tequila, but that's okay.
You seem like mine and I love tequila.
So yeah, I'm, I'm on board.
Good, good.
Well, what else would you like to share with me about reviews?
Like what else do we really need to hear to help the listeners?
Yeah.
And I have another idea around, around gaining reviews.
(16:38):
And this actually kind of blurs the line into also knowing your audience really well, which
I think the two can be connected and can almost be your metric.
So for me, what's really important, I think in podcasting, probably in my mind, the most
important thing is to actually talk to your listeners.
So how do you find them?
They're engaging on social media.
They're emailing you, they're messaging you just, you know, it's like liking something,
(16:59):
find a way to contact them and just say, Hey, saw you like this.
Any chance that you, if you listen to the podcast, would you be willing to give me 10
minutes on a video conference call?
Might be a little bit uncomfortable, but the truth is if you can get on that call, this
is the bonus material here, by the way, you can learn a lot from your listeners.
Ask them how they found the show.
Ask them what they like about it.
Ask what you think, would they, would they think you can do better for future listeners?
(17:22):
Ask what they're struggling with.
When you learn these things and you log that through an Excel spreadsheet, I am telling
you what 10, 20 people later, you can learn how to really, really, really, really, really
improve your podcast.
Bringing that back to reviews now after that call, because most of your listeners will
be very psyched to hear from you.
Be like, Hey, really enjoy our time together.
Hey, real quick while we're on, can you open up your, you have an iPhone or do you have
iTunes?
(17:42):
Can you go to Apple podcasts real quick?
I'd love it if you'd leave me a quick review on the podcast, guide them through it.
The thing is that could also be your metric for how many times you're getting on a call.
If you're like, you know what?
I want to get 20 reviews a month.
Maybe you need to be doing 20 calls a month because that's going to make you a better
podcastor, but also you now have the proof that yeah, I'm becoming a better podcaster
while I'm also growing my reviews.
Those two things go hand in hand.
(18:03):
I think that if podcasters start doing that, you'll find you exponentially accelerate your
ability to grow and really impact an audience.
So I completely agree with every single thing you've said, especially the one thing that
really hit me was you mentioned PodKite earlier and how you have to make it stupid simple
for someone to leave reviews.
(18:24):
So is that the first thing that you would do if you were trying to get people to start
leaving them for you is make it seamless or would you start putting it into your podcast
episodes and then go from there?
What do you think is the best first step?
First step is definitely make it as seamless as you possibly can.
You've got to find a way just to make it stupid simple.
Even if you're calling it out on your show, say, hey, go to my website, podpros, go to
(18:46):
podpros.com slash review and it'll send you straight to a link to it.
I have a friend, she went so far as to do a quick video.
She did like a quick reel and she just links that in one of her pages showing you exactly
how to do it.
So it's like 35 seconds.
It's like, here's how you leave a review on my show.
And I was like, man, that's, I put it, I was like, can I take that?
I'm like, I'll give you credit.
I'm going to embed that in my page where I teach people how to do it.
(19:07):
Cause I'm like, that's so helpful.
Cause now if you want to say to me, I'm like, I can't figure it out.
I'm done.
You give them a link.
You make it stupid simple.
Right.
And I think that that's the first thing is we got to remove the friction involved in
it.
I think we have to do that with everything.
Yeah.
I mean, that's, that's the whole reason I like RSS personally is because of the fact
that it's so stupid, simple that even I could do it.
Cause I'm not tech savvy at all.
It starts with the name RSS.
(19:28):
I mean, that's what podcasting is.
So yeah, you all, you all got it right from start to finish for sure.
Yeah.
Talk about SEO.
Like I'm brilliant, right?
Right.
No kidding.
Well, where can people find you online if they want to learn more about you?
Yeah.
Everything I do is at podpros.com.
So you can just go to podpros.com.
You'll see my podcast.
You'll see all the different product services I have.
(19:49):
And I think that that's a great place for people to go.
Well, there's also one question I have to ask you before I let you go.
It's the question I ask everyone.
What is one question I didn't ask you really wish I had?
I guess we should have gotten into pod lottery.
Maybe that doesn't mean we didn't even talk about it.
I just realized, cause that is an alternative.
That's another way.
I didn't even mention it.
We should probably go into that real quick.
(20:10):
Sorry.
Let's go into it.
Cause I'm like thinking like that.
I miss anything.
I'm like, wait, yeah, I did miss something.
So what is pod lottery?
Okay.
Thank you.
Pod lottery.
I should have brought this up earlier.
Pod lottery is an alternative solution for getting more reviews on your podcast, specifically
Apple reviews.
And the idea was, could we do like a peer to peer type of thing?
It almost feels like a review swap among podcasts host specifically, but do it in a fun, gamified
(20:34):
way.
So we built it to be like a lottery system.
So I'll explain the whole thing and how it works.
You register as a host.
You get a ticket with that ticket.
You pick a number and every night numbers are drawn.
If your number is picked, you win reviews from other podcast host.
When they review your show, they win a ticket.
They get a number.
They get a chance to win.
So it kind of turns into a review swap and we've got people that have literally 100s
(20:55):
of reviews.
Like sometimes I don't know how you get so lucky, but some, we have like five numbers
get drawn and they had four of them.
Right.
And I think it got like 163 reviews.
I was like, wow.
So they get 163 reviews from other podcasters, but we actually worked directly with Apple
on this.
This is a really important point.
We can validate a listen and we can validate that it's a review left from a place of authenticity
(21:16):
and integrity.
So it's not copy pasted.
It's not the same one they just left.
It has more than 10 words.
It doesn't have profanity in it, right.
Unless it's fitting, I suppose.
Right.
So, but they also, again, validate the listen.
So again, we can make sure this comes from a place of integrity.
And that for us has been a really, just a fun thing.
It's free.
There's no charge involved, but it's like, Hey, can we help each other get more reviews
(21:37):
so we can make sure that our podcasts are getting known?
They're getting noticed.
I mean, that just sounds like really cool.
So how do people start like working with pod lottery?
Like what do they need to do to be able to get on it?
You go to podlottery.com, you register the account.
The two things that they ask you for is to validate that you're the podcast host you
say you are.
So they'll just email you a quick little code to make sure that that's you.
(22:00):
And then the second thing they'll do is ask you for your podcast reviewer name.
So that's your name in iTunes or an Apple of like what it says when you leave a review,
right?
To make sure that we can actually validate that you're leaving review.
Those are the two things that ask for and pass that it's free.
You can play every day if you want.
Really?
It's free.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Again, it was just something fun.
(22:20):
Like I actually, you know, it's funny.
Here's my accountability.
Ashley, it has the word lottery in it and it works like a lottery.
It is illegal in the United States to charge for anything that's a lottery or sweepstakes
of any kind.
That government has the monopoly on that.
So that's why the government runs all of them.
So I told my lawyer, he's like, do not do this.
He's like, unless you're not going to charge.
I'm like, I'm not going to charge.
He goes, good.
If you, if you charge for it, you're going to jail.
I was like, cool.
(22:40):
That's perfect accountability.
I was never playing on charging anyway.
It's just for fun.
So it worked out really great.
That's awesome.
So, I mean, that's actually a really neat idea.
I didn't even know that it was free.
So that's even, even more reason that people should sign up for it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's been fun.
You know, at the end of the day, I'm a podcaster myself, an indie podcaster and getting reviews
matters for me as well.
And so it's been a really fun community building thing.
(23:02):
And also you pick the categories you want.
So like I only, true crime scares the mess out of me, Ashley.
I'm just going to be real.
So I don't want to review any true crime podcasts because I have to listen to them.
So I, I focus in like, uh, in anything that's like mindset related entrepreneurship, business
marketing, right?
And I have found shows that become shows I listened to through this.
So I'm not only getting to leave them a review and a rating, but I'm also like, this is a
(23:23):
cool show.
I like this.
I'm going to, I'm going to keep this one going.
I'm going to subscribe to this one.
Right?
So that's been kind of the bonus fun is it's built a little bit of a community and I love
that.
That's like my favorite thing ever.
Well, because you said the niches that I'm all about, what are your favorite podcasts?
Putting you on the spot.
I have so many favorite podcasts.
I've been really enjoying, uh, the James Altucher show.
(23:44):
Okay.
He's a six, just so unique.
I call him the most interesting entrepreneur in the world.
Like a play on the most interesting man in the world.
The guy's just like totally unique, totally different.
Uh, and the other one is the Jordan Harbinger show is the one I've been listening to a lot.
He's just such a good podcast host.
Like it blows my mind how good he is.
Um, those are my two that I'm kind of like really all about right now.
(24:04):
And then I always look up topics.
So I like kind of go deep into like the podcasting world by looking up, I want 10 episodes on
this and I'll go find them.
But those are the two like shows I'm currently into.
I love that you said James Altucher because, um, his book, choose yourself is one of the
reasons that I decided I was going to stay freelance instead of trying to get a full
time job.
Uh, just reading about how he was voluntarily homeless basically.
(24:25):
And um, all the stuff that he went through just, it's wild that you in this day and age
can like pull a Jack Reacher and be homeless on purpose.
And so that's just what, that's what drew me to him.
And so yeah, big band.
So very, very excited that you mentioned him.
So cool.
I love that.
New episodes anymore.
I don't, I'm, I'm like, I'm a backlog guy.
(24:47):
I'm never real time.
I love them.
People are like, I haven't, they're like, you're listening to what episode?
Like episode 50, like dude, I'm an episode 400.
I'm like, I know I'm, I'm like, wait, I'm not there.
Like leave me alone.
Right?
I'll get there eventually.
If you stop, I'll catch up.
So.
And fun fact, one of the reasons I actually like to go to the backlog sometimes is I like
to see where someone started versus where they are now.
(25:09):
It's the journey, right?
Like when you listen to something, it's like, okay, I'm going to skip your 20 year journey
and just get to where you are now.
I'm like, wow, this person is so impressive.
I prefer to hear, wow, you got some work to do to hearing the transformation happen.
I, I'm, I think you and I are really similar, Ashley.
We're best friends, I think.
Yeah.
Did we, did we just become best friends?
We were a bit at Zine and Nesta Brothers.
Good quote.
Yes.
(25:29):
And yes, the answer is yes.
Awesome.
Awesome.
I'm very excited.
I could always use more bloggy friends.
Oh wait, wrong show.
Nice.
So, um, is there anything else that you want to share that I, that I haven't brought up
yet?
Because I want to make sure that you get everything in here that you want to talk about.
Yeah.
The last thing I'll mention is just around why all this really matters.
(25:50):
And to me, everything that we do as independent podcasters has to be to serve the person who's
going to be listening.
Sure we can work on our cover art, our abilities as hosts.
That's super important, right?
Like we can come up with a better title description.
We can get better mics and all that.
At the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is are we serving the person
on the other side of the mic?
(26:11):
Are we serving that person who's listening?
At the end of the day, I think there's no better medium for really providing potential
transformation in people's lives than podcasting.
So it's all about that.
And if having more reviews makes that an easier decision for them to enter your world, then
so be it.
Let's work on that.
Let's do that.
Let's focus on what really matters, which is changing that person's life who's listening
(26:32):
to you.
Oh God, that is so good.
It really is because the big thing is so many people, whenever they come into this medium,
they realize how much work it is and then they start to freak out and then they're like,
well, is it even worth it?
Shouldn't I just start making a bunch of money and all those things?
But when you push all that aside and just remember the person who's got their headphones
on and is listening to you, that's when the magic happens.
(26:57):
And so I hope that people listening today heard something that kind of lit them up and
got them excited, not only about podcasting, but about taking the chance to ask people
to leave them for reviews, because, you know, building this community and building something
around an idea, it's just magical.
Yeah, that's my Disney moment.
(27:18):
I love it.
What a great way to end that.
Well, Alex, I want to thank you so much for being on the show today.
You've shared a lot of amazing information with us and I hope that people will actually
take that and start using it.
I know I certainly will because I need some reviews.
Spoiler alert, I have none, but I will work on that now.
You're going to get one now.
I believe in you, Ashley.
You're going to make it happen.
I'll leave you one.
Draw me a link and I'll leave you one.
(27:38):
I love it.
I love it.
And I will definitely be signing up for Pod Lottery.
Since it's free.
Well, my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips, and ideas that we've shared
in this episode.
To learn more about launching and growing your own show, head over to rss.com backslash
(28:01):
blog.
And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with
your first episode on us.
Thanks for tuning in.
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