August 2, 2023 • 35 mins
In this episode we’re chatting with Arielle Nissenblatt, but you might know her as Ari This and That depending on where you follow her online. Ari’s one of the most well known podcasters in the industry, and we were lucky enough to have her on the RSS.com podcast to chat about Discord, podcasting trailers, video podcasts, and so much more. Tune in now, and enjoy the show!
Arielle’s Links:
Arielle’s Podcasts:
Feedback with EarBuds https://www.earbudspodcastcollective.org/earbudspodcast-podcast-feedback
Trailer Park: The Podcast Trailer Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trailer-park-the-podcast-trailer-podcast/id1663965044
Counter Programming with Shira & Arielle https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/counter-programming-with-shira-arielle/id1506238332
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com.
(00:17):
In today's episode, we're chatting with podcasting guru Arielle Nissenblatt about Discord,
podcast trailers, and so much more related to the wild world of podcasting.
(00:40):
So, let's get started.
I run a podcast recommendation newsletter called Earbuds Podcast Collective.
I work for Squadcast as the head of community and content.
(01:01):
I help people grow their shows with marketing and audience growth tactics, a bunch of different
clients who need different things at different times.
I also write a newsletter called Podcast Plunge.
I also write a newsletter called This and That with Arielle Nissenblatt.
I host a podcast about podcast trailers, and I host a podcast about podcast recommendations.
(01:26):
And I sometimes co-host a podcast about the business of podcasting called Sounds Profitable.
And pretty much, if you approach me with an ask about what I may do in the podcast space,
I will probably say yes.
And it's good.
I love it.
I'm tired, but I'm happy.
And I really love this space.
And I just, yeah, I'm constantly excited by the news and the new audio.
(01:49):
And I just, I don't know, I'm very happy to be here.
Okay.
So basically what has just come through for me is we need a listener challenge to figure
out how many times we say the word podcast in this podcast episode.
Oh, I know.
So basically you live and breathe podcasts, it sounds like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is there anything you do in your life that doesn't revolve around podcasting?
(02:11):
I play soccer.
Oh, that's cool.
That's actually really cool.
I play soccer.
I have a podcast about soccer.
That's a great question.
I play soccer.
I like walking tours, but I still somehow think that walking tours relate to podcasts
because it just feels like a live podcast, you know?
Yeah.
I like that a lot.
I like that a lot.
What else?
Uh, yeah.
And then I go to a lot of live podcast tapings or comedy, but that feels podcasty in some
(02:35):
way.
Yeah.
A lot of what I do is podcast related and it's great.
I mean, I don't know.
I just, I'm very, very grateful that I started listening to podcasts in 2014 and that, and
that they were able to so beautifully integrate into my life.
Absolutely.
There's something so magical about the world of audio because you can take it with you
(02:55):
wherever you go.
And like the, you know, I was listening to the, uh, the recordical, um, live that was
happening last week and, uh, they were talking about how like, you know, if you're trying
to watch a video, you can't do that while you're driving or, you know, while you're
doing certain things, but audio you can always just have in your ears and it's so intimate
and it's, it's just such a fun, fun and wonderful medium.
(03:16):
And so, um, but speaking of like podcasting in terms of like how you market it and things
like that, one of the things that's really big and, and what made me reach out to you
is a lot of people are starting to use Discord as a means to build their community and grow
their podcast.
And I'm in your Discord for podcasting.
And so I'm curious, what was it that made you decide to start using Discord to work
(03:40):
with your community?
Yeah.
I started this Discord called, I think it's called the podcasting community on Discord
is the official name.
And we started it in October because of Elon Musk, because Twitter seemed like it was going
down the toilet.
This was October of 2022.
(04:01):
And you know, there have been times before that, October of 2022 and times since October
2022, that there have been mass exoduses from Twitter and at times people have returned
to Twitter.
But we started the, we started the Discord because we wanted to give people an option
for another place to hang out.
(04:21):
And it blew up.
It was, we had a thousand people in the Discord within two weeks.
It was amazing.
We got featured everywhere.
All the podcast newsletters covered, covered it, added a link.
And so many people joined from all walks of podcasting life, people from huge corporations
to independent creators.
(04:43):
And I'm really, really grateful for the community that we've been able to build on there.
I wanted to start it because, well, I, I truthfully had no business starting a Discord.
I was barely involved in other Discords as a community member.
I had signed on a few times to Discords that I'd been invited to over the years, but never
really participated.
(05:03):
But Discord seemed like a good place because Slack just felt too corporate.
You know, I didn't want to start Mighty Networks or Circle.so or a Facebook group.
I wanted it to be independent.
And Discord seemed like the right thing.
Even though it can be really hard for a lot of folks to grasp, but we have things in place
for those people.
We do regular events where we help people orient themselves to Discord.
(05:25):
And we also have a newsletter that goes along with the Discord so that people can stay involved
in what's discussed within, if they don't want to be active day to day or week to week.
So we've got some things in place to make it more manageable, but Discord seemed like
the right place to be.
It's interesting because it seemed like once you started yours, so many different podcasts
or podcast companies were starting Discords as well.
(05:46):
Like I got an invite to the one for Descript and the one for Decipher.
And then all of a sudden I got one for Colin and Samir's podcasts.
And it's like everybody's starting to do Discord.
And now it's more important than ever because you know, everything, I guess you'd call it
the dumpster fire that is Reddit right now with everything going on with the fact that
they're removing the APIs from third party apps.
(06:07):
And I mean, I know that's probably for the whole trying to stop spam thing, but in reality,
it feels like more and more of these different platforms are just making it harder for people
to build their communities.
And so with the Discord, what goes into starting it and do you, I noticed you have moderators
in it, but for people who have no idea what to do with the platform, can you give a little
(06:30):
bit of advice as to what you wish you'd done, how things are now and that kind of stuff?
Yeah, I've started the Discord late October, 2022 and almost immediately podcast friends
that I've had from the internet reached out and they were like, Hey, if you need help
moderating this, I'm here.
I was like, I'm going to take you up on that right now.
(06:50):
I'm not even going to pretend that I don't need help.
So I had about five moderators join on.
We have a group within the Discord channel where we talk to each other.
And then we also are constantly in touch on other social media platforms, just in case
like something goes wrong.
So we had to meet up in order to figure out what rules folks should abide by and what
(07:15):
is crossing the line when it comes to self-promotion and other things like that.
We also had to figure out what sort of back channels within Discord we should have, right?
Do we have a resources tab?
Is that different from a help tab?
Is that different from a tech tab?
Is that different from events?
Yes, all of these are different, but we need to outline what goes into each one and what
is appropriate to be posting in each one and what happens if something is posted in one
(07:38):
of those that should be posted elsewhere.
How do you nicely tell somebody to move it?
And the reason is because, you know, ultimately we want to encourage people to be very active
in there and we don't want to moderate too heavily, but we also want to make sure that
it is a manageable experience for the average passerby.
So I think, you know, number one piece of advice for this is get moderators who you
(08:01):
trust to both understand the medium.
So for us it's podcasting, but also the technology, which is Discord.
So they know how to turn on two-factor authentication.
So they know how to turn on two-factor authentication and so that they know how to make it so that
if there's a million posts getting thrown up in one of the channels and people are kind
(08:25):
of getting out of control, maybe they're fighting, how do you turn on slow mode to make sure
that people can't post more than X number of times per minute or per hour or something
like that.
Those are not things that I knew about beforehand, but Discord has all of these capabilities
and my beautiful moderators knew exactly what to do.
So you kind of got a crash course in all the things Discord, just by starting it.
(08:46):
So now one of the things you said to me was you keep in touch on other platforms as well.
The thing that screamed to me is what people keep claiming and talking about and pushing
to people, but not paying enough attention to and that's don't put all your eggs in one
basket.
Is that why you are like having touch points in other platforms?
(09:07):
I keep touch points on other platforms because I just think it is important for me as what
I've recently been called as a portfolio entrepreneur.
I do a lot of different things in a lot of different places.
I don't want to put too many eggs in one basket for myself.
I continue to have a presence on Twitter.
I continue to build up a presence on LinkedIn.
(09:28):
I am relatively active on Instagram, but not necessarily professionally.
When it comes to being in touch with my moderators on other platforms, that's just because mostly
we met on other platforms in the first place.
So some of those folks I still have DMs going on with on Twitter.
For example, some of those people have left Twitter, which is interesting.
We also have an email chain just in case you get locked out of Discord and you need to
(09:50):
be in touch.
Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense.
For some reason it's reminding me of something I saw on a movie.
I can't remember if it was, he's just not that into you or what, but it was like I message
you on Facebook, but then you reply to me on Twitter and then you send me a text message
and I'm being rejected in three different platforms.
No one needs that.
But still, it does make sense though because it even happened to me today.
(10:12):
I sent someone a message via email and then they messaged me back in Facebook messenger
and I'm like, no, keeping it went fine.
I know, I know.
I have to with a few people.
So you're doing all these things and I got to ask you, it sounds like you're putting
a lot of time into all of this.
Are you monetizing all of it or is most of it just community that you're building and
(10:35):
you're just hanging out with people?
How does all that work for you?
Some of the things that I do are monetized.
Some are not.
Some were monetized and are not anymore.
Some were not monetized and are now.
And I think that's kind of the beauty of it.
I think I alluded to this before, but somebody recently on an interview called me a portfolio
entrepreneur.
(10:55):
It's like I'm an artist, but I am collecting communities instead of canvases.
I think, yeah, that's the first time I said that out loud.
That was good.
That was really good.
Yeah.
I think for me, it's all about being the most helpful I possibly can, both for myself and
for anybody who needs help in any way.
So is it an independent creator who needs to know what mic to buy or is it a very established
(11:20):
creator who needs to figure out how to market their show because they're really great at
the content development, but they don't know the first thing about pitching newsletters.
So I just try to think about, I just try to have a really great grasp on who is doing
what in the podcast space, who should be collaborating with who, what new tools are there that you
should be using in order to get to the next level or to maintain the level that you're
(11:43):
at, which is okay.
I think right now I am full-time paid by Squadcast, which is a remote recording platform that helps
podcasters record audio and video in studio quality.
I manage the community and the content there, so that's my full-time job.
I love it very much.
And then I also do a lot of work that is monetized by helping people.
(12:05):
I do consulting with people on where is their show right now, how many downloads are they
getting per episode, what's their goal and how do they get there?
What sorts of collaborations should they be doing?
How should they be setting up promo swaps?
Should they be buying ads on other podcasts?
Should they be buying ads on podcast platforms?
And I try to advise people on that.
The Discord is not monetized.
(12:27):
There's a newsletter that goes along with it that is not monetized, although we do have
the ability to take on sponsorships if we want.
I run a podcast recommendation newsletter that is monetized.
I run a podcast that goes along with that newsletter that is monetized.
Am I monetized?
I don't mean I'm raking in the big bucks.
I mean I'm making some money to offset the cost of my time.
And then the few other communities that I take part in or the few other projects that
(12:49):
I take part in, sometimes they're monetized, sometimes they're not, but I sort of use all
of these to just contribute to what I'm doing in the podcast space and my thinking is it
will come back to me in some way.
Absolutely.
And it sounds like, you know, in order to be able to do all these things, to have your
fingers on all these pies, it sounds like you're really, really passionate about podcasting.
(13:10):
And so for anybody who's listening to this and they don't hear it coming through, I can
tell just from everything I see that you do.
I hope you can hear it coming through.
I can.
I can.
But just in case, if someone's just reading the transcript and they're like, okay, I
don't have...
Wow, she sounds bland.
I don't think you sound bland at all.
I dig podcasting just as much.
(13:31):
Maybe not quite as much as you, but I do think it's pretty cool.
So now what other ways, I mean, I know we started this with talking about Discord, but
what other ways do you use specifically to get the word out about the podcast that you
do produce?
Because I know you have the Trailer Park podcast, which I absolutely love.
And actually, no, let's actually take that back.
So the Trailer Park podcast, I already heard you talking about this on the Best Advice
(13:54):
Show, but for people who haven't listened to that and are listening to this.
So what made you decide to do a podcast about trailers for podcasts?
I love trailers.
I love short audio snippets that are meant to draw you into something larger.
And I think trailers are just such a great way to potentially discover a new show.
(14:15):
So I wanted to start a podcast about podcast trailers because I love meta podcast stuff.
So as you may have noticed, all of my podcast projects are about podcast recommendations
or about the podcast industry in general, because I just love the medium and I want
more people to discover podcasts and I want more people to understand how the space works.
So the way the podcast trailer podcast works is that each week we feature a different trailer
(14:39):
and then we talk about that trailer.
We say what works, what didn't work, what we liked, what we didn't like, and then we
tell you how to find the rest of that show.
Sometimes the trailers that we feature are for shows that have many seasons.
Sometimes they were just made as a proof of concept.
Sometimes they are looking for funding.
It could be anything in between.
And I wanted to start it because I was looking at the new and noteworthy section on Apple
(15:01):
podcasts a few years ago and I decided to listen to all of the trailers for a month
straight that were featured on the new and noteworthy section.
And I tried to figure out like, what is it about these trailers that is enticing?
What is not pulling me in?
But then more importantly, is the trailer indicative of what's to come in the larger
(15:22):
season?
Right?
So does it match the tone and the texture of the larger season?
If you have a 30 second trailer that's very cinematic and really draws you in, but then
your show is sort of boring and doesn't match the tone, I'm probably not going to continue
listening because I was promised one thing and it wasn't delivered.
Right?
So I've been thinking about what it means to promise something as a creator and then
(15:43):
to deliver or not deliver on that promise.
So I wanted to start this podcast because I want to help people make really great short
audio teasers that help draw potential listeners in and make people loyal listeners.
Yeah.
And we're definitely going to leave that in the show notes because everybody needs to
listen to that podcast because one of the things that we heavily promote is that you
(16:05):
need a trailer for your podcast.
And it's not just because you're trying to show listeners what they're about to listen
to, but it can also be your first episode that you can use to get on all the podcast
directories.
I just think it's fantastic.
And I'm a movie girl, like I'm obsessed with movies and I used to joke that I wanted to
watch an entire movie of movie trailers.
And so I guess that's why I...
(16:26):
Every trailer's rule.
They really are the best.
And I also like, have you seen honest movie trailers on YouTube?
I've heard they tell the truth about what is going on in the movie.
I think I've seen one or two of them, but nothing comes to mind.
Yeah, they're usually pretty comical and I enjoy the heck out of them.
But yeah, I think that's really good that you've created something that kind of shows
people what to do because not only is it somewhat critiquing, but also giving really good inspiration
(16:52):
for people.
And I think that's a great idea.
Thank you.
Yeah, well, all right.
So now that I'm done patting your back.
So I do want to ask you, if you were to start working on promoting your own podcast right
now, what is the best advice that you would give to someone who has just started a podcast
to go about doing that?
So I launched Trailer Park, the podcast trailer podcast in February, and I did all of the
(17:16):
things that I recommend other people do when they're launching a show.
The first thing was I made a list of all of the podcast newsletters and I tried to figure
out an angle to pitching all of them in some way.
So I have a huge list of podcast newsletters.
Some of them are newsletters that cover news.
So you know, who bought who in the podcast space, who is being hired where, what new
(17:37):
shows are dropping, how many podcasts are there, what new technology is out there.
Some newsletters are more editorial.
So let me do a deep dive into this podcast and talk about why I love it.
Some of them are more curated.
So here's a list of five podcasts that you should listen to.
And then there's everything in between.
So I made this list and I for the, you know, I've been doing this for a while because this
is what I do for clients.
But I thought to myself, what is the angle?
(18:00):
Why would each of these newsletters want to cover the news of my podcast about podcast
trailers dropping?
And I wrote all those things out and I sent personalized pitches to all of those people.
And I said, would you consider doing a story with me or would you consider interviewing
me?
Or would you consider a mention in your newsletter if nothing else or a tweet or something like
that?
Or would you even just screenshot that you are listening to the podcast and post it on
(18:23):
your Instagram story?
Whatever it is, how can I get this podcast to be everywhere all at once at the time of
the launch or soon thereafter so that people cannot not try it out?
So I did that and then I also reached out to other shows about other podcasts about
podcasts and I tried to get the trailer of the podcast trailer podcast featured on other
podcasts.
(18:43):
So hey, you know, RSS.com's podcast, would you consider featuring, would you consider
featuring the trailer for the show and then talking about when it's going to drop because
it's going to be helpful for the people that use RSS to know that making a trailer is important,
right?
So let's point people to that.
I also got in touch with all of the different softwares and services that I used and asked
(19:04):
if they would highlight me in some way as a case study because I use their products
and services.
I also got in touch with all of the podcast listening apps that I have contacts with or
that I had hopes of having contacts with and I let them know that I had a show coming out
when they would they consider featuring it in some way.
And you know, you're not going to hear back from everybody.
You're not even going to hear back from 50% of people.
But I took advantage of every single thing, every single positive response, and I milked
(19:29):
that.
And I think a really big part of that was offering something in return and not just
expecting that people were going to feature me in some way.
Well, I have two questions to that.
What was your response level?
And do you think that your response level was because of the fact you're already known
in the podcasting space?
I didn't calculate the response rate, mostly because I'm not a math person, so it doesn't
(19:50):
come naturally to me to do that.
But it was pretty high for this compared to some of the other shows I work on.
And part of it was because it was mine, you know, so I'm pitching on behalf of myself.
So there's a clear passion in that.
But also, yeah, I've been working in this space for a while.
And a lot of people will push back on me and say, like on Twitter, I'll give advice about
podcast marketing.
People will say, yeah, the only reason that works is because like, you're in the podcast
(20:13):
space and like, your name is known.
And I'm like, yeah, you know how my name got known?
I worked really freaking hard to make my name known.
And it took me a really long time to do that.
And I think that there is no substitute for asking people out for coffee so that you can
hear about how they got to where they are today.
And really taking a genuine interest and then them thinking of you because they just really
(20:34):
like your vibe.
And I think, yeah, of course, a good amount of my success comes from the fact that I am
me, but I am only me because I have been working on it for seven years in audio.
So basically what you're saying is if you want to start getting yeses and positive feedback,
you got to put in the work.
(20:54):
Yeah.
And it has to be genuine.
I know.
And look, there are some people who are going to get lucky and they don't have to put in
as much work and their show is going to come at the right time.
It's going to be at the perfect production level and the story is going to be perfect.
And the right outlet is going to find it at the right time, which is going to mean that
it's going to get promoted to the right person who sees it, who has a really big platform,
(21:16):
who's going to basically your goal should be to make your show recommendable by word
of mouth so that you don't have to do the work on your own so that people are just like,
oh my God, you have to listen to this.
Everybody's talking about it.
That's the goal.
And sometimes that can happen.
Just sheer luck and circumstances and keywords and I don't know, so many other factors, but
also it's fun to work hard and find avenues and angles to get your show found.
(21:40):
Well, and plus, I mean, the big thing to me, because like I do a lot of outreach to try
to get like freelance work and things like that.
And the big thing that is constantly said to me and that I completely agree with is
you have to send so many because you're going to get a lot of no's, but it's the yeses that
are what's most important, but you're never going to get the yes if you don't deal with
the no's.
(22:01):
Right.
Right.
And I think something important to think about with the no's is, you know, there are ways
to cut down on your no's.
There are ways to get like a soft yes or a maybe or a non-response that you then can
follow up on that maybe you hone your pitch a little bit and your second and your follow-up.
And I think a big part of that is just personalizing as much as you can.
It can really be tempting to mail merge something and just be like, hi, would you consider featuring
(22:25):
me?
But taking a moment to find out why your show or your news piece or you as a potential interviewee
would be perfect for them at this time and honing that pitch so that they can't say no
or so that, you know, you find a way for them to say yes to something small so that over
time they say yes to something bigger, maybe in your third follow-up or maybe you go back
(22:47):
and forth, you have a phone call.
Eventually they say yes.
I think it's all about just not getting an initial no.
It's all about getting a response.
Get the response and go from there.
Yeah.
And don't do the spray and pray.
No.
You mentioned the mail merge and I, since I am a freelance writer, I am constantly, I
mean, I have a folder in my filters that basically chucks people to this press releases that
(23:09):
I have not signed up for.
And I get them every day.
I got 10 today and, you know, these people don't know who I am.
They don't know what I'm writing about, but they're sending these pitches constantly.
And it's like, if they just took a moment to, instead of saying, hi, first name, and
just find out what I actually write about, maybe they could get some more positive response.
So I think that that's the biggest thing that is, you know, coming through with what you're
(23:30):
talking about is that you send personalized stuff because even if you weren't, you know,
so well known in the podcasting space, you're taking the time and the energy to at least
make sure that who you're sending it to will possibly even care.
And I'm known in the podcast space, but I'm not known in the spaces of the, you know,
I pitch on behalf of clients a lot of the time and I am not known in the energy sector
(23:55):
space, but I get responses because I'm taking the time to figure out, you know, here's a
trade publication for the renewable energy space and here's what they tend to cover.
And here's why this show would be perfect for them.
And maybe for example, that it's a monthly newsletter and they aren't currently covering
podcasts in the energy space.
And maybe I can pitch them on a monthly podcast recommendation, right?
(24:17):
So just think about where are you adding value to these people?
Are you doing a lot of guest posting and guest podcasting?
Like this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I say yes to a lot.
I love to put my name out there.
I love to hone my craft as a, as a talker.
I love to figure out ways to tell my story in different, using different vocabulary.
(24:40):
I like to see if I can go sentence after sentence without saying um, or like, or ah, and just,
you know, not that that's a bad thing, but it is fun to figure out your craft and to
figure out your flow as a speaker.
Absolutely.
Like my big thing is I come from the blogging world.
And so I'm constantly like trying to figure out how I can get into other websites and
(25:01):
things like that.
And I'm like, my, my, my joke is famous Ashley Grant.
And it's because I'm constantly trying to get internet famous one posted.
It's not Kardashian famous, not Kardashian famous.
Cause who wants that?
Um, so kind of along with everything that we've talked about and yet maybe sort of side
stepping it, but, um, what do you think about video podcasting?
(25:21):
Cause that seems to be the big thing that people are pushing right now is everything's
got to be on video.
Do you think that we still need to really respect the medium of audio or should we be
repurposing with video?
I like clips for video.
You're right.
This is a very popular question.
I think it's going to stress a lot of people out to hear that you've got to be making videos.
So I just want to take that weight off your shoulders.
(25:43):
You don't need to be making video if you like making audio, if you only like making audio,
there are still people who want to listen to podcasts and do not want to watch podcasts
and that is okay.
So if you want, if you are already recording video, so if you're using Riverside or Squadcast
or Zencaster and you're recording video and it is not too hard for you to take that video
and throw it up on YouTube, add some captions, add some waveforms, whatever.
(26:06):
Great.
Do that.
But if it is so, if it's so time consuming and you hate it and you're not seeing any
growth from it, step back, maybe make a few clips that will excite people about the show
so that if they see it on Tik Tok or reels or YouTube shorts, they might say, you know
what?
That's that famous Ashley Grant.
I want to check her out.
That's a great way to experiment a little bit.
(26:27):
And I'm a big fan of the three month experimentation segment.
So you know, trying out posting clips once a week for three months.
And if you're gaining traction from that, great, keep going.
If you're not, take a step back, maybe reevaluate, figure out maybe your clips were too long.
Maybe they were too short.
Maybe they were boring as hell and you need to try something else.
So do you do that with a lot of your stuff?
(26:49):
Like do that three month test thing so you can see like A, B testing and seeing how it
goes.
Yeah, I did that on Tik Tok for a while, just personally posting videos of myself doing
podcast advice or podcast recommendations.
I saw some success, but then I ultimately weighed the scale and I was like, you know
what?
I'm also getting stressed out doing this because people are mean on the internet and I don't
(27:11):
necessarily want to deal with that.
So I, you know, I realized that I like Twitter a little bit better.
People are weirdly nicer there to me.
I will not say that that's the case for everybody.
And I just would rather spend time on Twitter.
So I did do that experiment on Tik Tok.
I did that experiment on Instagram reels.
I didn't do it on YouTube shorts at the time, but it's all a possibility.
(27:35):
I do think three months is a good amount of time.
Yeah, because I mean, things move so quickly and in three months it might not even matter
to anybody anymore.
Exactly.
So we've covered a lot.
I mean, we have covered so much, but is there anything?
Well, I have to ask you the one question that I ask everyone before I let them go.
(27:58):
What's one question I didn't ask you, you really wish I had.
A lot of people have been asking me what is my goal and I have no answer for that because
I love being everywhere.
(28:20):
And so that do we even have to have an end book?
Exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, a lot of people are like, okay, so you're doing this, you're doing that, you're
doing that, you're doing this.
Where do you want to be in 10 years or where do you want to even be in a year?
And I really love representing Squadcast and being aware of all of these creator tools
that are perfect for podcasters at any stage.
(28:43):
And then also being able to help people grow their show.
My whole thought is if people are going to continue to use Squadcast, which is a paid
product, they are going to need to be able to associate success with their podcast so
that they can associate success with Squadcast.
So if I can help teach them, if I can teach them podcast growth tactics, if I can teach
(29:05):
them podcast marketing tactics, they see growth, they see success, they're making connections,
they are enjoying the creative process, and then they associate that success with Squadcast,
I've done my job.
So I love representing Squadcast.
I also love keeping up with what's going on in the podcast space.
So to answer the question that I just prompted you to ask me, but I didn't really do that,
(29:28):
I would say my goal is to just continue being aware of what is going on in audio, in podcasting,
and continue advocating for this medium to continue growing.
I want more people to listen to podcasts because I want more creators to get paid, because
I want more people to discover podcasts, because I want more people to continue to get paid.
And it's a circle, it's a cycle, it's a...
(29:49):
I just love it.
And I think I said that 50 times, but it is where I'm at.
And that's okay.
And I think we're at like 75 or 80 of how many times we've said the word podcast.
Oh, gosh.
Anybody counting?
We'll have to put it in the transcript and I'll do a control F and find out.
Well, so you have so much going on, but where can people find you if they want to learn
more about you?
(30:10):
Best thing to do is go to Google and type in Ariel Nismlat because I'm the only one.
And also because my website will come up, which is arielnisimlat.com.
I have also bought the domain soundslikethisandthat.com.
I plan to redirect it, but for now it's just arielnisimlat.com.
There you will find my Twitter, you'll find all my newsletters, you'll find a link to
(30:31):
Squadcast, you'll find a link to all my podcasts and everything in between.
Well, and they should find the link to your Discord there too, right?
Yeah, because that's kind of circling back to what we started with after bringing in
the Discord one more time.
Do you think that people should start a Discord for their podcasts?
I think that's a larger question about community.
I think not every podcast lends itself to an offline or an online community.
(30:56):
Not every podcast needs to be discussed all the time.
So I really think it's case dependent.
Oh, that's a great answer.
I like the cop out.
It's a cop out, but it's a good answer.
I would need an example.
I would need an example.
Like the RSS podcast should have a Discord because it's also a technology, right?
And it's also a hosting site, right?
So it makes sense for RSS to have community surrounding the podcast that is in its name.
(31:20):
But if you have a podcast about, like, I don't know, I have a podcast about podcast trailers.
I do not have a Discord dedicated to it because it would be overkill because I already host
so many things related to podcasting and I can discuss those things there.
But let's see, I had a podcast a while back called Counter Programming, called Counter
Programming with Shira and Ariel.
(31:42):
And it was a pandemic distraction podcast where we talked about anything with the word
count or counter in the title because it was supposed to be countering the grim COVID-19
news right at the beginning of the pandemic.
And we started an Instagram and that was it.
We decided that that's what we wanted to do.
That's all we had capacity for.
Do what you can, do well, and don't spread yourself too thin because people can tell.
(32:06):
That's very true.
And I'm curious, I know that we're going all over the map here, but you keep bringing up
all these amazing things that I have to know more.
So with the things that you're no longer, like, really active with, do they still live
online?
Yeah, Counter Programming still lives online.
I am still really proud of it.
Sometimes my co-host and I listen back and we're like, damn, we were good for 2020 people.
(32:28):
You know, for this time where things were tough, like we were funny.
That show is so hilarious.
And we basically, we have a series within it on countertops.
So we debated the benefits and disadvantages of marble, steel, granite, and wood, and laminate,
and recycled glass, and Formica.
(32:48):
And we really did that.
And it was strange and it was great.
And we learned a lot.
So yeah, that's still online.
We hosted on Buzzsprout.
So it'll still be up on the internet forever.
And we get an email every Monday from Buzzsprout telling us that we had still a hundred downloads
per week, which is shocking.
And we're like, where are these coming from?
But we're very proud.
(33:09):
That's awesome.
I think that's so cool because one of the things that I got the pleasure of interviewing
Tlaib Chassir from Afros and Audios and the podcast festival.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but he said in there that one of his favorite
things about podcasting is it's like a time capsule of everything that's going on in that
moment.
And that definitely sounds like what was going on with the counter in the COVID.
(33:32):
I mean, because when we look back on all of that, just knowing what was happening in that
moment, it's like, wow, this is a really big deal that we still have this.
And it's like etched in time.
Right.
Exactly.
That's a little philosophical, but still, you know, that's a thing.
Well, Ari, I want to say thank you so much for being here.
You have shared a lot of amazing information.
(33:53):
And I'm sure that we barely scratched the surface of what we could talk about.
So I definitely hope we can have you back on again in the near future.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
This was a lot of fun.
Well my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips and ideas shared in this
(34:15):
episode.
To learn more about launching and growing your own show, head over to rss.com backslash
blog.
And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with
your first episode on us.
Thanks for tuning in.
Hey everyone, Ashley here with RSS.com.
(00:17):
In today's episode, we're chatting with podcasting guru Arielle Nissenblatt about Discord,
podcast trailers, and so much more related to the wild world of podcasting.
(00:40):
So, let's get started.
I run a podcast recommendation newsletter called Earbuds Podcast Collective.
I work for Squadcast as the head of community and content.
(01:01):
I help people grow their shows with marketing and audience growth tactics, a bunch of different
clients who need different things at different times.
I also write a newsletter called Podcast Plunge.
I also write a newsletter called This and That with Arielle Nissenblatt.
I host a podcast about podcast trailers, and I host a podcast about podcast recommendations.
(01:26):
And I sometimes co-host a podcast about the business of podcasting called Sounds Profitable.
And pretty much, if you approach me with an ask about what I may do in the podcast space,
I will probably say yes.
And it's good.
I love it.
I'm tired, but I'm happy.
And I really love this space.
And I just, yeah, I'm constantly excited by the news and the new audio.
(01:49):
And I just, I don't know, I'm very happy to be here.
Okay.
So basically what has just come through for me is we need a listener challenge to figure
out how many times we say the word podcast in this podcast episode.
Oh, I know.
So basically you live and breathe podcasts, it sounds like.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is there anything you do in your life that doesn't revolve around podcasting?
(02:11):
I play soccer.
Oh, that's cool.
That's actually really cool.
I play soccer.
I have a podcast about soccer.
That's a great question.
I play soccer.
I like walking tours, but I still somehow think that walking tours relate to podcasts
because it just feels like a live podcast, you know?
Yeah.
I like that a lot.
I like that a lot.
What else?
Uh, yeah.
And then I go to a lot of live podcast tapings or comedy, but that feels podcasty in some
(02:35):
way.
Yeah.
A lot of what I do is podcast related and it's great.
I mean, I don't know.
I just, I'm very, very grateful that I started listening to podcasts in 2014 and that, and
that they were able to so beautifully integrate into my life.
Absolutely.
There's something so magical about the world of audio because you can take it with you
(02:55):
wherever you go.
And like the, you know, I was listening to the, uh, the recordical, um, live that was
happening last week and, uh, they were talking about how like, you know, if you're trying
to watch a video, you can't do that while you're driving or, you know, while you're
doing certain things, but audio you can always just have in your ears and it's so intimate
and it's, it's just such a fun, fun and wonderful medium.
(03:16):
And so, um, but speaking of like podcasting in terms of like how you market it and things
like that, one of the things that's really big and, and what made me reach out to you
is a lot of people are starting to use Discord as a means to build their community and grow
their podcast.
And I'm in your Discord for podcasting.
And so I'm curious, what was it that made you decide to start using Discord to work
(03:40):
with your community?
Yeah.
I started this Discord called, I think it's called the podcasting community on Discord
is the official name.
And we started it in October because of Elon Musk, because Twitter seemed like it was going
down the toilet.
This was October of 2022.
(04:01):
And you know, there have been times before that, October of 2022 and times since October
2022, that there have been mass exoduses from Twitter and at times people have returned
to Twitter.
But we started the, we started the Discord because we wanted to give people an option
for another place to hang out.
(04:21):
And it blew up.
It was, we had a thousand people in the Discord within two weeks.
It was amazing.
We got featured everywhere.
All the podcast newsletters covered, covered it, added a link.
And so many people joined from all walks of podcasting life, people from huge corporations
to independent creators.
(04:43):
And I'm really, really grateful for the community that we've been able to build on there.
I wanted to start it because, well, I, I truthfully had no business starting a Discord.
I was barely involved in other Discords as a community member.
I had signed on a few times to Discords that I'd been invited to over the years, but never
really participated.
(05:03):
But Discord seemed like a good place because Slack just felt too corporate.
You know, I didn't want to start Mighty Networks or Circle.so or a Facebook group.
I wanted it to be independent.
And Discord seemed like the right thing.
Even though it can be really hard for a lot of folks to grasp, but we have things in place
for those people.
We do regular events where we help people orient themselves to Discord.
(05:25):
And we also have a newsletter that goes along with the Discord so that people can stay involved
in what's discussed within, if they don't want to be active day to day or week to week.
So we've got some things in place to make it more manageable, but Discord seemed like
the right place to be.
It's interesting because it seemed like once you started yours, so many different podcasts
or podcast companies were starting Discords as well.
(05:46):
Like I got an invite to the one for Descript and the one for Decipher.
And then all of a sudden I got one for Colin and Samir's podcasts.
And it's like everybody's starting to do Discord.
And now it's more important than ever because you know, everything, I guess you'd call it
the dumpster fire that is Reddit right now with everything going on with the fact that
they're removing the APIs from third party apps.
(06:07):
And I mean, I know that's probably for the whole trying to stop spam thing, but in reality,
it feels like more and more of these different platforms are just making it harder for people
to build their communities.
And so with the Discord, what goes into starting it and do you, I noticed you have moderators
in it, but for people who have no idea what to do with the platform, can you give a little
(06:30):
bit of advice as to what you wish you'd done, how things are now and that kind of stuff?
Yeah, I've started the Discord late October, 2022 and almost immediately podcast friends
that I've had from the internet reached out and they were like, Hey, if you need help
moderating this, I'm here.
I was like, I'm going to take you up on that right now.
(06:50):
I'm not even going to pretend that I don't need help.
So I had about five moderators join on.
We have a group within the Discord channel where we talk to each other.
And then we also are constantly in touch on other social media platforms, just in case
like something goes wrong.
So we had to meet up in order to figure out what rules folks should abide by and what
(07:15):
is crossing the line when it comes to self-promotion and other things like that.
We also had to figure out what sort of back channels within Discord we should have, right?
Do we have a resources tab?
Is that different from a help tab?
Is that different from a tech tab?
Is that different from events?
Yes, all of these are different, but we need to outline what goes into each one and what
is appropriate to be posting in each one and what happens if something is posted in one
(07:38):
of those that should be posted elsewhere.
How do you nicely tell somebody to move it?
And the reason is because, you know, ultimately we want to encourage people to be very active
in there and we don't want to moderate too heavily, but we also want to make sure that
it is a manageable experience for the average passerby.
So I think, you know, number one piece of advice for this is get moderators who you
(08:01):
trust to both understand the medium.
So for us it's podcasting, but also the technology, which is Discord.
So they know how to turn on two-factor authentication.
So they know how to turn on two-factor authentication and so that they know how to make it so that
if there's a million posts getting thrown up in one of the channels and people are kind
(08:25):
of getting out of control, maybe they're fighting, how do you turn on slow mode to make sure
that people can't post more than X number of times per minute or per hour or something
like that.
Those are not things that I knew about beforehand, but Discord has all of these capabilities
and my beautiful moderators knew exactly what to do.
So you kind of got a crash course in all the things Discord, just by starting it.
(08:46):
So now one of the things you said to me was you keep in touch on other platforms as well.
The thing that screamed to me is what people keep claiming and talking about and pushing
to people, but not paying enough attention to and that's don't put all your eggs in one
basket.
Is that why you are like having touch points in other platforms?
(09:07):
I keep touch points on other platforms because I just think it is important for me as what
I've recently been called as a portfolio entrepreneur.
I do a lot of different things in a lot of different places.
I don't want to put too many eggs in one basket for myself.
I continue to have a presence on Twitter.
I continue to build up a presence on LinkedIn.
(09:28):
I am relatively active on Instagram, but not necessarily professionally.
When it comes to being in touch with my moderators on other platforms, that's just because mostly
we met on other platforms in the first place.
So some of those folks I still have DMs going on with on Twitter.
For example, some of those people have left Twitter, which is interesting.
We also have an email chain just in case you get locked out of Discord and you need to
(09:50):
be in touch.
Yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense.
For some reason it's reminding me of something I saw on a movie.
I can't remember if it was, he's just not that into you or what, but it was like I message
you on Facebook, but then you reply to me on Twitter and then you send me a text message
and I'm being rejected in three different platforms.
No one needs that.
But still, it does make sense though because it even happened to me today.
(10:12):
I sent someone a message via email and then they messaged me back in Facebook messenger
and I'm like, no, keeping it went fine.
I know, I know.
I have to with a few people.
So you're doing all these things and I got to ask you, it sounds like you're putting
a lot of time into all of this.
Are you monetizing all of it or is most of it just community that you're building and
(10:35):
you're just hanging out with people?
How does all that work for you?
Some of the things that I do are monetized.
Some are not.
Some were monetized and are not anymore.
Some were not monetized and are now.
And I think that's kind of the beauty of it.
I think I alluded to this before, but somebody recently on an interview called me a portfolio
entrepreneur.
(10:55):
It's like I'm an artist, but I am collecting communities instead of canvases.
I think, yeah, that's the first time I said that out loud.
That was good.
That was really good.
Yeah.
I think for me, it's all about being the most helpful I possibly can, both for myself and
for anybody who needs help in any way.
So is it an independent creator who needs to know what mic to buy or is it a very established
(11:20):
creator who needs to figure out how to market their show because they're really great at
the content development, but they don't know the first thing about pitching newsletters.
So I just try to think about, I just try to have a really great grasp on who is doing
what in the podcast space, who should be collaborating with who, what new tools are there that you
should be using in order to get to the next level or to maintain the level that you're
(11:43):
at, which is okay.
I think right now I am full-time paid by Squadcast, which is a remote recording platform that helps
podcasters record audio and video in studio quality.
I manage the community and the content there, so that's my full-time job.
I love it very much.
And then I also do a lot of work that is monetized by helping people.
(12:05):
I do consulting with people on where is their show right now, how many downloads are they
getting per episode, what's their goal and how do they get there?
What sorts of collaborations should they be doing?
How should they be setting up promo swaps?
Should they be buying ads on other podcasts?
Should they be buying ads on podcast platforms?
And I try to advise people on that.
The Discord is not monetized.
(12:27):
There's a newsletter that goes along with it that is not monetized, although we do have
the ability to take on sponsorships if we want.
I run a podcast recommendation newsletter that is monetized.
I run a podcast that goes along with that newsletter that is monetized.
Am I monetized?
I don't mean I'm raking in the big bucks.
I mean I'm making some money to offset the cost of my time.
And then the few other communities that I take part in or the few other projects that
(12:49):
I take part in, sometimes they're monetized, sometimes they're not, but I sort of use all
of these to just contribute to what I'm doing in the podcast space and my thinking is it
will come back to me in some way.
Absolutely.
And it sounds like, you know, in order to be able to do all these things, to have your
fingers on all these pies, it sounds like you're really, really passionate about podcasting.
(13:10):
And so for anybody who's listening to this and they don't hear it coming through, I can
tell just from everything I see that you do.
I hope you can hear it coming through.
I can.
I can.
But just in case, if someone's just reading the transcript and they're like, okay, I
don't have...
Wow, she sounds bland.
I don't think you sound bland at all.
I dig podcasting just as much.
(13:31):
Maybe not quite as much as you, but I do think it's pretty cool.
So now what other ways, I mean, I know we started this with talking about Discord, but
what other ways do you use specifically to get the word out about the podcast that you
do produce?
Because I know you have the Trailer Park podcast, which I absolutely love.
And actually, no, let's actually take that back.
So the Trailer Park podcast, I already heard you talking about this on the Best Advice
(13:54):
Show, but for people who haven't listened to that and are listening to this.
So what made you decide to do a podcast about trailers for podcasts?
I love trailers.
I love short audio snippets that are meant to draw you into something larger.
And I think trailers are just such a great way to potentially discover a new show.
(14:15):
So I wanted to start a podcast about podcast trailers because I love meta podcast stuff.
So as you may have noticed, all of my podcast projects are about podcast recommendations
or about the podcast industry in general, because I just love the medium and I want
more people to discover podcasts and I want more people to understand how the space works.
So the way the podcast trailer podcast works is that each week we feature a different trailer
(14:39):
and then we talk about that trailer.
We say what works, what didn't work, what we liked, what we didn't like, and then we
tell you how to find the rest of that show.
Sometimes the trailers that we feature are for shows that have many seasons.
Sometimes they were just made as a proof of concept.
Sometimes they are looking for funding.
It could be anything in between.
And I wanted to start it because I was looking at the new and noteworthy section on Apple
(15:01):
podcasts a few years ago and I decided to listen to all of the trailers for a month
straight that were featured on the new and noteworthy section.
And I tried to figure out like, what is it about these trailers that is enticing?
What is not pulling me in?
But then more importantly, is the trailer indicative of what's to come in the larger
(15:22):
season?
Right?
So does it match the tone and the texture of the larger season?
If you have a 30 second trailer that's very cinematic and really draws you in, but then
your show is sort of boring and doesn't match the tone, I'm probably not going to continue
listening because I was promised one thing and it wasn't delivered.
Right?
So I've been thinking about what it means to promise something as a creator and then
(15:43):
to deliver or not deliver on that promise.
So I wanted to start this podcast because I want to help people make really great short
audio teasers that help draw potential listeners in and make people loyal listeners.
Yeah.
And we're definitely going to leave that in the show notes because everybody needs to
listen to that podcast because one of the things that we heavily promote is that you
(16:05):
need a trailer for your podcast.
And it's not just because you're trying to show listeners what they're about to listen
to, but it can also be your first episode that you can use to get on all the podcast
directories.
I just think it's fantastic.
And I'm a movie girl, like I'm obsessed with movies and I used to joke that I wanted to
watch an entire movie of movie trailers.
And so I guess that's why I...
(16:26):
Every trailer's rule.
They really are the best.
And I also like, have you seen honest movie trailers on YouTube?
I've heard they tell the truth about what is going on in the movie.
I think I've seen one or two of them, but nothing comes to mind.
Yeah, they're usually pretty comical and I enjoy the heck out of them.
But yeah, I think that's really good that you've created something that kind of shows
people what to do because not only is it somewhat critiquing, but also giving really good inspiration
(16:52):
for people.
And I think that's a great idea.
Thank you.
Yeah, well, all right.
So now that I'm done patting your back.
So I do want to ask you, if you were to start working on promoting your own podcast right
now, what is the best advice that you would give to someone who has just started a podcast
to go about doing that?
So I launched Trailer Park, the podcast trailer podcast in February, and I did all of the
(17:16):
things that I recommend other people do when they're launching a show.
The first thing was I made a list of all of the podcast newsletters and I tried to figure
out an angle to pitching all of them in some way.
So I have a huge list of podcast newsletters.
Some of them are newsletters that cover news.
So you know, who bought who in the podcast space, who is being hired where, what new
(17:37):
shows are dropping, how many podcasts are there, what new technology is out there.
Some newsletters are more editorial.
So let me do a deep dive into this podcast and talk about why I love it.
Some of them are more curated.
So here's a list of five podcasts that you should listen to.
And then there's everything in between.
So I made this list and I for the, you know, I've been doing this for a while because this
is what I do for clients.
But I thought to myself, what is the angle?
(18:00):
Why would each of these newsletters want to cover the news of my podcast about podcast
trailers dropping?
And I wrote all those things out and I sent personalized pitches to all of those people.
And I said, would you consider doing a story with me or would you consider interviewing
me?
Or would you consider a mention in your newsletter if nothing else or a tweet or something like
that?
Or would you even just screenshot that you are listening to the podcast and post it on
(18:23):
your Instagram story?
Whatever it is, how can I get this podcast to be everywhere all at once at the time of
the launch or soon thereafter so that people cannot not try it out?
So I did that and then I also reached out to other shows about other podcasts about
podcasts and I tried to get the trailer of the podcast trailer podcast featured on other
podcasts.
(18:43):
So hey, you know, RSS.com's podcast, would you consider featuring, would you consider
featuring the trailer for the show and then talking about when it's going to drop because
it's going to be helpful for the people that use RSS to know that making a trailer is important,
right?
So let's point people to that.
I also got in touch with all of the different softwares and services that I used and asked
(19:04):
if they would highlight me in some way as a case study because I use their products
and services.
I also got in touch with all of the podcast listening apps that I have contacts with or
that I had hopes of having contacts with and I let them know that I had a show coming out
when they would they consider featuring it in some way.
And you know, you're not going to hear back from everybody.
You're not even going to hear back from 50% of people.
But I took advantage of every single thing, every single positive response, and I milked
(19:29):
that.
And I think a really big part of that was offering something in return and not just
expecting that people were going to feature me in some way.
Well, I have two questions to that.
What was your response level?
And do you think that your response level was because of the fact you're already known
in the podcasting space?
I didn't calculate the response rate, mostly because I'm not a math person, so it doesn't
(19:50):
come naturally to me to do that.
But it was pretty high for this compared to some of the other shows I work on.
And part of it was because it was mine, you know, so I'm pitching on behalf of myself.
So there's a clear passion in that.
But also, yeah, I've been working in this space for a while.
And a lot of people will push back on me and say, like on Twitter, I'll give advice about
podcast marketing.
People will say, yeah, the only reason that works is because like, you're in the podcast
(20:13):
space and like, your name is known.
And I'm like, yeah, you know how my name got known?
I worked really freaking hard to make my name known.
And it took me a really long time to do that.
And I think that there is no substitute for asking people out for coffee so that you can
hear about how they got to where they are today.
And really taking a genuine interest and then them thinking of you because they just really
(20:34):
like your vibe.
And I think, yeah, of course, a good amount of my success comes from the fact that I am
me, but I am only me because I have been working on it for seven years in audio.
So basically what you're saying is if you want to start getting yeses and positive feedback,
you got to put in the work.
(20:54):
Yeah.
And it has to be genuine.
I know.
And look, there are some people who are going to get lucky and they don't have to put in
as much work and their show is going to come at the right time.
It's going to be at the perfect production level and the story is going to be perfect.
And the right outlet is going to find it at the right time, which is going to mean that
it's going to get promoted to the right person who sees it, who has a really big platform,
(21:16):
who's going to basically your goal should be to make your show recommendable by word
of mouth so that you don't have to do the work on your own so that people are just like,
oh my God, you have to listen to this.
Everybody's talking about it.
That's the goal.
And sometimes that can happen.
Just sheer luck and circumstances and keywords and I don't know, so many other factors, but
also it's fun to work hard and find avenues and angles to get your show found.
(21:40):
Well, and plus, I mean, the big thing to me, because like I do a lot of outreach to try
to get like freelance work and things like that.
And the big thing that is constantly said to me and that I completely agree with is
you have to send so many because you're going to get a lot of no's, but it's the yeses that
are what's most important, but you're never going to get the yes if you don't deal with
the no's.
(22:01):
Right.
Right.
And I think something important to think about with the no's is, you know, there are ways
to cut down on your no's.
There are ways to get like a soft yes or a maybe or a non-response that you then can
follow up on that maybe you hone your pitch a little bit and your second and your follow-up.
And I think a big part of that is just personalizing as much as you can.
It can really be tempting to mail merge something and just be like, hi, would you consider featuring
(22:25):
me?
But taking a moment to find out why your show or your news piece or you as a potential interviewee
would be perfect for them at this time and honing that pitch so that they can't say no
or so that, you know, you find a way for them to say yes to something small so that over
time they say yes to something bigger, maybe in your third follow-up or maybe you go back
(22:47):
and forth, you have a phone call.
Eventually they say yes.
I think it's all about just not getting an initial no.
It's all about getting a response.
Get the response and go from there.
Yeah.
And don't do the spray and pray.
No.
You mentioned the mail merge and I, since I am a freelance writer, I am constantly, I
mean, I have a folder in my filters that basically chucks people to this press releases that
(23:09):
I have not signed up for.
And I get them every day.
I got 10 today and, you know, these people don't know who I am.
They don't know what I'm writing about, but they're sending these pitches constantly.
And it's like, if they just took a moment to, instead of saying, hi, first name, and
just find out what I actually write about, maybe they could get some more positive response.
So I think that that's the biggest thing that is, you know, coming through with what you're
(23:30):
talking about is that you send personalized stuff because even if you weren't, you know,
so well known in the podcasting space, you're taking the time and the energy to at least
make sure that who you're sending it to will possibly even care.
And I'm known in the podcast space, but I'm not known in the spaces of the, you know,
I pitch on behalf of clients a lot of the time and I am not known in the energy sector
(23:55):
space, but I get responses because I'm taking the time to figure out, you know, here's a
trade publication for the renewable energy space and here's what they tend to cover.
And here's why this show would be perfect for them.
And maybe for example, that it's a monthly newsletter and they aren't currently covering
podcasts in the energy space.
And maybe I can pitch them on a monthly podcast recommendation, right?
(24:17):
So just think about where are you adding value to these people?
Are you doing a lot of guest posting and guest podcasting?
Like this?
Yeah.
Yeah.
I say yes to a lot.
I love to put my name out there.
I love to hone my craft as a, as a talker.
I love to figure out ways to tell my story in different, using different vocabulary.
(24:40):
I like to see if I can go sentence after sentence without saying um, or like, or ah, and just,
you know, not that that's a bad thing, but it is fun to figure out your craft and to
figure out your flow as a speaker.
Absolutely.
Like my big thing is I come from the blogging world.
And so I'm constantly like trying to figure out how I can get into other websites and
(25:01):
things like that.
And I'm like, my, my, my joke is famous Ashley Grant.
And it's because I'm constantly trying to get internet famous one posted.
It's not Kardashian famous, not Kardashian famous.
Cause who wants that?
Um, so kind of along with everything that we've talked about and yet maybe sort of side
stepping it, but, um, what do you think about video podcasting?
(25:21):
Cause that seems to be the big thing that people are pushing right now is everything's
got to be on video.
Do you think that we still need to really respect the medium of audio or should we be
repurposing with video?
I like clips for video.
You're right.
This is a very popular question.
I think it's going to stress a lot of people out to hear that you've got to be making videos.
So I just want to take that weight off your shoulders.
(25:43):
You don't need to be making video if you like making audio, if you only like making audio,
there are still people who want to listen to podcasts and do not want to watch podcasts
and that is okay.
So if you want, if you are already recording video, so if you're using Riverside or Squadcast
or Zencaster and you're recording video and it is not too hard for you to take that video
and throw it up on YouTube, add some captions, add some waveforms, whatever.
(26:06):
Great.
Do that.
But if it is so, if it's so time consuming and you hate it and you're not seeing any
growth from it, step back, maybe make a few clips that will excite people about the show
so that if they see it on Tik Tok or reels or YouTube shorts, they might say, you know
what?
That's that famous Ashley Grant.
I want to check her out.
That's a great way to experiment a little bit.
(26:27):
And I'm a big fan of the three month experimentation segment.
So you know, trying out posting clips once a week for three months.
And if you're gaining traction from that, great, keep going.
If you're not, take a step back, maybe reevaluate, figure out maybe your clips were too long.
Maybe they were too short.
Maybe they were boring as hell and you need to try something else.
So do you do that with a lot of your stuff?
(26:49):
Like do that three month test thing so you can see like A, B testing and seeing how it
goes.
Yeah, I did that on Tik Tok for a while, just personally posting videos of myself doing
podcast advice or podcast recommendations.
I saw some success, but then I ultimately weighed the scale and I was like, you know
what?
I'm also getting stressed out doing this because people are mean on the internet and I don't
(27:11):
necessarily want to deal with that.
So I, you know, I realized that I like Twitter a little bit better.
People are weirdly nicer there to me.
I will not say that that's the case for everybody.
And I just would rather spend time on Twitter.
So I did do that experiment on Tik Tok.
I did that experiment on Instagram reels.
I didn't do it on YouTube shorts at the time, but it's all a possibility.
(27:35):
I do think three months is a good amount of time.
Yeah, because I mean, things move so quickly and in three months it might not even matter
to anybody anymore.
Exactly.
So we've covered a lot.
I mean, we have covered so much, but is there anything?
Well, I have to ask you the one question that I ask everyone before I let them go.
(27:58):
What's one question I didn't ask you, you really wish I had.
A lot of people have been asking me what is my goal and I have no answer for that because
I love being everywhere.
(28:20):
And so that do we even have to have an end book?
Exactly.
Exactly.
I mean, a lot of people are like, okay, so you're doing this, you're doing that, you're
doing that, you're doing this.
Where do you want to be in 10 years or where do you want to even be in a year?
And I really love representing Squadcast and being aware of all of these creator tools
that are perfect for podcasters at any stage.
(28:43):
And then also being able to help people grow their show.
My whole thought is if people are going to continue to use Squadcast, which is a paid
product, they are going to need to be able to associate success with their podcast so
that they can associate success with Squadcast.
So if I can help teach them, if I can teach them podcast growth tactics, if I can teach
(29:05):
them podcast marketing tactics, they see growth, they see success, they're making connections,
they are enjoying the creative process, and then they associate that success with Squadcast,
I've done my job.
So I love representing Squadcast.
I also love keeping up with what's going on in the podcast space.
So to answer the question that I just prompted you to ask me, but I didn't really do that,
(29:28):
I would say my goal is to just continue being aware of what is going on in audio, in podcasting,
and continue advocating for this medium to continue growing.
I want more people to listen to podcasts because I want more creators to get paid, because
I want more people to discover podcasts, because I want more people to continue to get paid.
And it's a circle, it's a cycle, it's a...
(29:49):
I just love it.
And I think I said that 50 times, but it is where I'm at.
And that's okay.
And I think we're at like 75 or 80 of how many times we've said the word podcast.
Oh, gosh.
Anybody counting?
We'll have to put it in the transcript and I'll do a control F and find out.
Well, so you have so much going on, but where can people find you if they want to learn
more about you?
(30:10):
Best thing to do is go to Google and type in Ariel Nismlat because I'm the only one.
And also because my website will come up, which is arielnisimlat.com.
I have also bought the domain soundslikethisandthat.com.
I plan to redirect it, but for now it's just arielnisimlat.com.
There you will find my Twitter, you'll find all my newsletters, you'll find a link to
(30:31):
Squadcast, you'll find a link to all my podcasts and everything in between.
Well, and they should find the link to your Discord there too, right?
Yeah, because that's kind of circling back to what we started with after bringing in
the Discord one more time.
Do you think that people should start a Discord for their podcasts?
I think that's a larger question about community.
I think not every podcast lends itself to an offline or an online community.
(30:56):
Not every podcast needs to be discussed all the time.
So I really think it's case dependent.
Oh, that's a great answer.
I like the cop out.
It's a cop out, but it's a good answer.
I would need an example.
I would need an example.
Like the RSS podcast should have a Discord because it's also a technology, right?
And it's also a hosting site, right?
So it makes sense for RSS to have community surrounding the podcast that is in its name.
(31:20):
But if you have a podcast about, like, I don't know, I have a podcast about podcast trailers.
I do not have a Discord dedicated to it because it would be overkill because I already host
so many things related to podcasting and I can discuss those things there.
But let's see, I had a podcast a while back called Counter Programming, called Counter
Programming with Shira and Ariel.
(31:42):
And it was a pandemic distraction podcast where we talked about anything with the word
count or counter in the title because it was supposed to be countering the grim COVID-19
news right at the beginning of the pandemic.
And we started an Instagram and that was it.
We decided that that's what we wanted to do.
That's all we had capacity for.
Do what you can, do well, and don't spread yourself too thin because people can tell.
(32:06):
That's very true.
And I'm curious, I know that we're going all over the map here, but you keep bringing up
all these amazing things that I have to know more.
So with the things that you're no longer, like, really active with, do they still live
online?
Yeah, Counter Programming still lives online.
I am still really proud of it.
Sometimes my co-host and I listen back and we're like, damn, we were good for 2020 people.
(32:28):
You know, for this time where things were tough, like we were funny.
That show is so hilarious.
And we basically, we have a series within it on countertops.
So we debated the benefits and disadvantages of marble, steel, granite, and wood, and laminate,
and recycled glass, and Formica.
(32:48):
And we really did that.
And it was strange and it was great.
And we learned a lot.
So yeah, that's still online.
We hosted on Buzzsprout.
So it'll still be up on the internet forever.
And we get an email every Monday from Buzzsprout telling us that we had still a hundred downloads
per week, which is shocking.
And we're like, where are these coming from?
But we're very proud.
(33:09):
That's awesome.
I think that's so cool because one of the things that I got the pleasure of interviewing
Tlaib Chassir from Afros and Audios and the podcast festival.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with it, but he said in there that one of his favorite
things about podcasting is it's like a time capsule of everything that's going on in that
moment.
And that definitely sounds like what was going on with the counter in the COVID.
(33:32):
I mean, because when we look back on all of that, just knowing what was happening in that
moment, it's like, wow, this is a really big deal that we still have this.
And it's like etched in time.
Right.
Exactly.
That's a little philosophical, but still, you know, that's a thing.
Well, Ari, I want to say thank you so much for being here.
You have shared a lot of amazing information.
(33:53):
And I'm sure that we barely scratched the surface of what we could talk about.
So I definitely hope we can have you back on again in the near future.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
This was a lot of fun.
Well my fellow podcasters, we hope you enjoyed the insights, tips and ideas shared in this
(34:15):
episode.
To learn more about launching and growing your own show, head over to rss.com backslash
blog.
And if you're ready to launch a podcast of your own, you can get started for free with
your first episode on us.
Thanks for tuning in.
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