January 27, 2025 • 15 mins
I’m going to say something and you might not agree with me, but in my experience this is the truth: marketing a podcast is harder than having a podcast.
Finding the right people that should be listening to your podcast and reminding them every week to listen to your podcast is actually harder than making the podcast itself and that’s not easy.
In this episode we’re going to talk about why your podcast marketing isn’t working, what you can do to improve and how we can make small changes to start rebuilding our listener base and engaging with our existing audience.
📌 Book Your 1:1 Coaching Session:
https://morganfranklin.media/contact-morgan-franklin
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https://podcastsforprofit.com
📥 Download 4 FREE ChatGPT prompts for podcasters and listen to the episode on how to use them here:
https://morganfranklin.media/podschool-steal-my-4-favorite-chatgpt-prompts-for-podcasting/
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🙋🏻♀️ Questions? Comments? Ideas? Message Me:
morgan@morganfranklin.media
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Morgan Franklin (00:01):
I'm gonna say something, and you might not
agree with me, but in myexperience, this is the truth.
Marketing a podcast is harderthan having a podcast now,
finding the right people thatshould be listening to your
podcast and reminding them everyweek to listen to your podcast
is actually harder than makingthe podcast itself, and that
(00:23):
part isn't easy. In thisepisode, we're gonna talk about
why your podcast marketing isn'tworking, what you can do to
improve and how we can makesmall changes to start
rebuilding our listener base andengaging our existing audience.
Hello and welcome to podcast forprofit. My name is Morgan
Franklin. I'm a PodcastProducer, strategist and
(00:46):
educator. This podcast will helpyou create and grow a podcast
that cuts through the noise ofsocial media and speaks directly
to your target audience. Ifyou're ready to create a podcast
that will align you with theexperts in your industry
position yourself as a trustedleader and create another source
of revenue for your business.You're in the right place. I did
(01:09):
a poll with 100 podcasters a fewmonths ago on threads, and I
asked, how would you spend$1,000 on your podcast? About
80% of the people saidadvertising. But then when I
asked how they would use thatmoney on advertising, there
wasn't really a very clearanswer. And the truth is that
most podcast marketing doesn'twork that well because it's just
(01:31):
not at the right time and place.I've talked about this several
episodes in the past, but if,for example, you were relying on
short form clips, on, let's say,Tiktok, or Instagram reels, to
be converting into listeners. Asmy granny would say, you've got
a long row to hoe, because thinkabout this, you're scrolling on
(01:51):
Tiktok. Maybe at the end of along day, you're exhausted, like
so many of us are. We're turningoff our brain. We're just
flipping through these videos,even if you come across a
podcast that you think is sofunny or smart or whatever you
may want in a podcast, thelikelihood of you doing anything
more than just bookmarking it orsaving it for later is very
slim. And honestly, how often doyou go back and look at those
(02:15):
saved videos or bookmarks onsocial media? Is this to say
that I think marketing yourpodcast on short form video is
pointless. No, not at all. Ithink you should be using it. I
think that Tiktok, specificallyis the best place for awareness
and growth potential. Theaverage user spends about 95
minutes a day on Tiktok. And inthe United States, we have 160
(02:38):
million active users. Now, I'lllet you do the math on that one,
but what I'm trying to say is itmight not be the best place to
market your podcast if you wantconversion from podcast
downloads and listens, but it isso amazing for awareness, so
make sure that you're utilizingit, especially in the United
States. We know that we onlyhave until about April, that for
(03:01):
sure Tiktok is going to be here.So if you know you want to use
it, make sure that you areutilizing that time on the
platform a short form videostrategy that I've not heard
anyone talk about is usingYouTube shorts, which is kind of
the version, the Tiktok shortform version of YouTube videos.
So basically, what you would dois make one of these short form
(03:21):
videos and then link your longerepisode that's also on YouTube
so that someone will hopefullysubscribe to your channel, and
if you're looking for them toconvert to the full episode. I
think that utilizing YouTube andYouTube shorts is like the
perfect conjunction, and a greatplace to do this, because you
don't have to go off of anotherapp, and people can subscribe to
(03:42):
you there. You know, therereally should be a place for
brand awareness in yourmarketing strategy of your
podcast, because like peopleseeing your podcast on Tiktok or
Instagram reels or YouTubeshorts and watching that 32nd
clip, there is a place for that.Instead of having that direct
conversion like you might haveon Facebook or LinkedIn or even
Pinterest, you need to recognizethe difference, and that's when
(04:06):
you can start properly marketingyour podcast episodes. We have
to understand the differencebetween awareness and a direct
conversion to a potentialsubscriber. So when I say that
there needs to be a right placeand a right time. I mean that
your listener needs to be in thezone for listening to a podcast,
(04:26):
or at the least, in the zone tobe opening their podcast
platform, app to follow yourpodcast. In my opinion, one of
the best ways to market yourpodcast is to be a guest on
another podcast. And I know thatthis isn't a task that you can
just pay an agency to do, andit's not traditional podcast
marketing, but it's fixing theexact problem we were talking
(04:50):
about earlier, about needingpeople at the right place in
time, if your imaginary listeneris already listening to this
podcast episode, you. Thatyou're a guest on, then they're
already listening to a podcast.They're already on a podcast
platform, app of their choosing.They're getting to know you.
They can follow your podcastwhile they're still listening to
(05:12):
this other one, and if they likeyou, chances are they are going
to want to follow your podcastand listen to it. Another thing
that guesting does is itprovides that social proof to
your future listener, so theyknow that they like the podcast
that you're guesting on. So mostlikely, they trust the host and
they want more of what they'recurrently getting. This is why
(05:34):
you need to be strategic withthe podcast that you guessed on.
That is very important to makesure that the person has an
audience that you'd want toshare, and that it makes sense
for your time and effort. Ithink so often podcasters are
like, I'm going to go on everysingle podcast that could even
possibly make sense. And I thinkthat that's kind of a waste of
(05:56):
time. But what I do think thatyou should do is investigate who
their audiences. What is thekind of production that they are
putting out, and do you want tobe associated with that? Listen
to a few of their episodes andmake sure that this is worth
your time and effort. Make sureare people listening to this. Go
look up their listen notes. Gosee if they're ranking on
anything. Is this worth yourtime and effort? Do they even
(06:17):
have an audience that you wouldwant to speak to. So that's a
free way to market your podcast,usually. So let's talk about
paid ways to market yourpodcast, paid ads. Now it might
not be paid ads in the sensethat you might be thinking like
meta or Google ads. I think thatthose can both be effective. But
again, are you at the rightplace and the right time for
(06:40):
that potential podcast listener.If I were investing $1,000 into
paid ads for my podcast, I'd beon another podcast ads or on
another podcast platform. So forexample, Spotify. You can buy
banner ads, you can buy audioads, you can buy all kinds of
ads, and that is where yourlistener is. You are meeting
(07:04):
them at the time and place whenthey are looking for something
to listen to. And you can nichethis down so far. So even if,
let's say that you have abusiness investing podcast, you
can drill it down to people whoare looking for business
investment podcasts. This is soeasy and so specific to make
sure you are getting the personthat you're looking for. And I
(07:25):
know that you can do the samething on Pocket Cast and a few
of the other podcastingplatforms. So do a little bit of
research and find out who youcan advertise with. That is a
podcast platform where you canadvertise your podcast to people
who are looking for a podcast tolisten to. There is no better
Right place, right time thanthat, right another way that you
(07:48):
could utilize paid ads isadvertising in a relevant space
online that is specific to yourniche. So for example, if it
were me, if I wanted to sponsora blog post or a video of
another podcast creator to talkabout my podcast that would be
meeting my audience, where theyare and what kind of information
they're looking for, right?Like, let's say that this is
(08:09):
someone that makes all theircontent about podcast
microphones. If I were to buy apaid ad with that person, that
would be my market. That wouldbe the people who are looking
for me. So think about the nicheopportunities that you have and
the ways that you could spendyour money to be closer to those
other kinds of creators thatcould align themselves, their
(08:31):
brand, with who you are lookingto speak to, but make sure that
you are keeping in mind, wouldthis actually convert to someone
listening? Because we can go wayoff into left field, or, for
example, you could sponsor aYouTube video that then links
back to the episode that youwant people to listen to. So
make sure that you're being veryspecific with that, and that you
(08:53):
have a clear path to someoneactually listening to your
podcast, or to a specificpodcast episode. Most podcast
advertising doesn't work becauseit's selfish, and I know that
I've said this before, butposting about a new episode for
the sake of sharing that youhave a new episode is not
enough. That should be thestatus quo. If you have a
(09:16):
podcast, you should be puttingout a new episode every week, or
whatever amount of time that younormally put out a new episode,
this is not news. So instead,take the time to tell me why I'd
be interested in this episode.Short clips from podcasts work
for a long time, and I think tosome extent that they still do.
(09:37):
So just taking a little clip outof your episode. But what's so
much better is you making apiece of content that explains
to your audience, to me, why youmade that episode, take the
time. Don't be selfish. Don't belazy. Explain to your audience
why you made this episode, whyyou think that they'd like it,
(09:58):
and where they can. And listento it. You know, time is our
most precious resource, and ifwe think that someone is going
to listen to our podcast justbecause it's a new episode, we
are incorrect. If I could taskyou and every podcaster with one
thing that would help convertsocial media content into an
(10:19):
actual listener, it would be toexplain where your listener can
listen to the podcast. And Iknow that this sounds useless,
but hear me out. There are somany people that you're trying
to get to listen to your podcastepisode that hardly know what a
podcast is. And I know thissounds impossible, but it's not.
(10:39):
We think podcasting is somainstream and well known, and
while we're getting there, forsure, you can have a beautiful
post that is so engaging andthat the person thinks, wow, I
really want to listen to thispodcast or this episode, but
they have no idea how to do itall right? So the first thing
is, most of us are not beingstraightforward enough and
(11:02):
reminding people clearly andconsistently what the name of
our podcast is. And I could goon an entire episode, long rant
about this. I won't, but halfthe time, someone's like, listen
to my podcast episode or showinga clip from their podcast. I
have no idea what podcast that'sfrom. I'm hunting around the
(11:22):
profile. I'm totally lost. I'mstarting to think that maybe
they don't even have a podcast.This was just a podcast they
were a guest on, you know, andI'm so guilty of this too. I
remember a few years ago, beforeI really kind of realized this,
I would be making promotionalcontent for podcasts that I was
producing, and I just put thecover art for the podcast, like
so the logo so tiny on thevideo. And think that people
(11:45):
knew what that meant. Theydon't. They don't know what it
means. They don't. So what Iwant you to say is, I want you
to spell it out for people sayyou can listen to my podcast,
podcast for profit, with MorganFranklin, new episodes on Monday
on all major streaming platformsand YouTube. So tell people what
day it comes out, tell the fullname of your podcast. Tell them
(12:07):
where it is, tell them if it'son YouTube. Don't leave anything
to chance, because I promiseyou, people don't even know the
name of your podcast. Andanother thing in this vein is
having the correct linking toyour podcast. It is 2025, there
is no reason your audience hasto look around for where to
listen to your podcast. Itbetter be linked everywhere.
(12:30):
It's in your link tree. It's inyour posts. It's connected to
everything with the full name ofthe podcast. And if you think
it's overkill, then you'reprobably doing it right. Because
I'm telling you, I recordanywhere from four to eight
podcast episodes a month withguests, and these people don't
know where to find podcasts, andthey don't really understand how
(12:51):
podcasts work. So they arepeople that are literally coming
on podcasts that don't know howthey work. They have no idea how
to listen to them. So make surethat you are telling people,
Hey, go listen to this episode.In the Link, in the caption,
wherever it may be, tell peoplewhere to go. So the last thing
that I want to talk about inthis episode is being consistent
(13:12):
with advertising new episodesand whether this is free or paid
advertising, there is no reasona week goes by and you aren't
telling people about your newepisode. They say it takes eight
to 12 touch points for a buyerto buy, and we've already talked
about this earlier in theepisode, but listeners are
(13:32):
giving you their most preciousresource of all their time. So
if you really want people tolisten to your podcast episodes,
you should probably be puttingout at least one piece of
content every day, but never,ever less than once a week,
because truthfully, at thatpoint, why even have one. And if
you want to work with me one onone to create podcast
(13:54):
advertising that works for yourpodcast, my coaching information
is in the episode description,or you can email me at Morgan,
at Morgan Franklin dot media.You can also shop my digital
template store that willdefinitely help you get started
with making social media posts.I have Canva templates for
social media that I've designedand perfected over the years to
(14:16):
help convert followers intolisteners. And as always, I
can't wait to listen to yourpodcast. Hey, thank you so much
for joining me on this episode.If you enjoyed the podcast and
you'd like to hear more episodeslike this one, go ahead and
subscribe to the show. Newepisodes air every Monday
morning. And if you found thisepisode valuable and you want to
(14:38):
help other business owners andpodcasters, will you leave me a
five star review. It helps theshow rank higher in the charts,
and brings more entrepreneursthe information they need to
start making money on theirpodcast.
I'm gonna say something, and you might not
agree with me, but in myexperience, this is the truth.
Marketing a podcast is harderthan having a podcast now,
finding the right people thatshould be listening to your
podcast and reminding them everyweek to listen to your podcast
is actually harder than makingthe podcast itself, and that
(00:23):
part isn't easy. In thisepisode, we're gonna talk about
why your podcast marketing isn'tworking, what you can do to
improve and how we can makesmall changes to start
rebuilding our listener base andengaging our existing audience.
Hello and welcome to podcast forprofit. My name is Morgan
Franklin. I'm a PodcastProducer, strategist and
(00:46):
educator. This podcast will helpyou create and grow a podcast
that cuts through the noise ofsocial media and speaks directly
to your target audience. Ifyou're ready to create a podcast
that will align you with theexperts in your industry
position yourself as a trustedleader and create another source
of revenue for your business.You're in the right place. I did
(01:09):
a poll with 100 podcasters a fewmonths ago on threads, and I
asked, how would you spend$1,000 on your podcast? About
80% of the people saidadvertising. But then when I
asked how they would use thatmoney on advertising, there
wasn't really a very clearanswer. And the truth is that
most podcast marketing doesn'twork that well because it's just
(01:31):
not at the right time and place.I've talked about this several
episodes in the past, but if,for example, you were relying on
short form clips, on, let's say,Tiktok, or Instagram reels, to
be converting into listeners. Asmy granny would say, you've got
a long row to hoe, because thinkabout this, you're scrolling on
(01:51):
Tiktok. Maybe at the end of along day, you're exhausted, like
so many of us are. We're turningoff our brain. We're just
flipping through these videos,even if you come across a
podcast that you think is sofunny or smart or whatever you
may want in a podcast, thelikelihood of you doing anything
more than just bookmarking it orsaving it for later is very
slim. And honestly, how often doyou go back and look at those
(02:15):
saved videos or bookmarks onsocial media? Is this to say
that I think marketing yourpodcast on short form video is
pointless. No, not at all. Ithink you should be using it. I
think that Tiktok, specificallyis the best place for awareness
and growth potential. Theaverage user spends about 95
minutes a day on Tiktok. And inthe United States, we have 160
(02:38):
million active users. Now, I'lllet you do the math on that one,
but what I'm trying to say is itmight not be the best place to
market your podcast if you wantconversion from podcast
downloads and listens, but it isso amazing for awareness, so
make sure that you're utilizingit, especially in the United
States. We know that we onlyhave until about April, that for
(03:01):
sure Tiktok is going to be here.So if you know you want to use
it, make sure that you areutilizing that time on the
platform a short form videostrategy that I've not heard
anyone talk about is usingYouTube shorts, which is kind of
the version, the Tiktok shortform version of YouTube videos.
So basically, what you would dois make one of these short form
(03:21):
videos and then link your longerepisode that's also on YouTube
so that someone will hopefullysubscribe to your channel, and
if you're looking for them toconvert to the full episode. I
think that utilizing YouTube andYouTube shorts is like the
perfect conjunction, and a greatplace to do this, because you
don't have to go off of anotherapp, and people can subscribe to
(03:42):
you there. You know, therereally should be a place for
brand awareness in yourmarketing strategy of your
podcast, because like peopleseeing your podcast on Tiktok or
Instagram reels or YouTubeshorts and watching that 32nd
clip, there is a place for that.Instead of having that direct
conversion like you might haveon Facebook or LinkedIn or even
Pinterest, you need to recognizethe difference, and that's when
(04:06):
you can start properly marketingyour podcast episodes. We have
to understand the differencebetween awareness and a direct
conversion to a potentialsubscriber. So when I say that
there needs to be a right placeand a right time. I mean that
your listener needs to be in thezone for listening to a podcast,
(04:26):
or at the least, in the zone tobe opening their podcast
platform, app to follow yourpodcast. In my opinion, one of
the best ways to market yourpodcast is to be a guest on
another podcast. And I know thatthis isn't a task that you can
just pay an agency to do, andit's not traditional podcast
marketing, but it's fixing theexact problem we were talking
(04:50):
about earlier, about needingpeople at the right place in
time, if your imaginary listeneris already listening to this
podcast episode, you. Thatyou're a guest on, then they're
already listening to a podcast.They're already on a podcast
platform, app of their choosing.They're getting to know you.
They can follow your podcastwhile they're still listening to
(05:12):
this other one, and if they likeyou, chances are they are going
to want to follow your podcastand listen to it. Another thing
that guesting does is itprovides that social proof to
your future listener, so theyknow that they like the podcast
that you're guesting on. So mostlikely, they trust the host and
they want more of what they'recurrently getting. This is why
(05:34):
you need to be strategic withthe podcast that you guessed on.
That is very important to makesure that the person has an
audience that you'd want toshare, and that it makes sense
for your time and effort. Ithink so often podcasters are
like, I'm going to go on everysingle podcast that could even
possibly make sense. And I thinkthat that's kind of a waste of
(05:56):
time. But what I do think thatyou should do is investigate who
their audiences. What is thekind of production that they are
putting out, and do you want tobe associated with that? Listen
to a few of their episodes andmake sure that this is worth
your time and effort. Make sureare people listening to this. Go
look up their listen notes. Gosee if they're ranking on
anything. Is this worth yourtime and effort? Do they even
(06:17):
have an audience that you wouldwant to speak to. So that's a
free way to market your podcast,usually. So let's talk about
paid ways to market yourpodcast, paid ads. Now it might
not be paid ads in the sensethat you might be thinking like
meta or Google ads. I think thatthose can both be effective. But
again, are you at the rightplace and the right time for
(06:40):
that potential podcast listener.If I were investing $1,000 into
paid ads for my podcast, I'd beon another podcast ads or on
another podcast platform. So forexample, Spotify. You can buy
banner ads, you can buy audioads, you can buy all kinds of
ads, and that is where yourlistener is. You are meeting
(07:04):
them at the time and place whenthey are looking for something
to listen to. And you can nichethis down so far. So even if,
let's say that you have abusiness investing podcast, you
can drill it down to people whoare looking for business
investment podcasts. This is soeasy and so specific to make
sure you are getting the personthat you're looking for. And I
(07:25):
know that you can do the samething on Pocket Cast and a few
of the other podcastingplatforms. So do a little bit of
research and find out who youcan advertise with. That is a
podcast platform where you canadvertise your podcast to people
who are looking for a podcast tolisten to. There is no better
Right place, right time thanthat, right another way that you
(07:48):
could utilize paid ads isadvertising in a relevant space
online that is specific to yourniche. So for example, if it
were me, if I wanted to sponsora blog post or a video of
another podcast creator to talkabout my podcast that would be
meeting my audience, where theyare and what kind of information
they're looking for, right?Like, let's say that this is
(08:09):
someone that makes all theircontent about podcast
microphones. If I were to buy apaid ad with that person, that
would be my market. That wouldbe the people who are looking
for me. So think about the nicheopportunities that you have and
the ways that you could spendyour money to be closer to those
other kinds of creators thatcould align themselves, their
(08:31):
brand, with who you are lookingto speak to, but make sure that
you are keeping in mind, wouldthis actually convert to someone
listening? Because we can go wayoff into left field, or, for
example, you could sponsor aYouTube video that then links
back to the episode that youwant people to listen to. So
make sure that you're being veryspecific with that, and that you
(08:53):
have a clear path to someoneactually listening to your
podcast, or to a specificpodcast episode. Most podcast
advertising doesn't work becauseit's selfish, and I know that
I've said this before, butposting about a new episode for
the sake of sharing that youhave a new episode is not
enough. That should be thestatus quo. If you have a
(09:16):
podcast, you should be puttingout a new episode every week, or
whatever amount of time that younormally put out a new episode,
this is not news. So instead,take the time to tell me why I'd
be interested in this episode.Short clips from podcasts work
for a long time, and I think tosome extent that they still do.
(09:37):
So just taking a little clip outof your episode. But what's so
much better is you making apiece of content that explains
to your audience, to me, why youmade that episode, take the
time. Don't be selfish. Don't belazy. Explain to your audience
why you made this episode, whyyou think that they'd like it,
(09:58):
and where they can. And listento it. You know, time is our
most precious resource, and ifwe think that someone is going
to listen to our podcast justbecause it's a new episode, we
are incorrect. If I could taskyou and every podcaster with one
thing that would help convertsocial media content into an
(10:19):
actual listener, it would be toexplain where your listener can
listen to the podcast. And Iknow that this sounds useless,
but hear me out. There are somany people that you're trying
to get to listen to your podcastepisode that hardly know what a
podcast is. And I know thissounds impossible, but it's not.
(10:39):
We think podcasting is somainstream and well known, and
while we're getting there, forsure, you can have a beautiful
post that is so engaging andthat the person thinks, wow, I
really want to listen to thispodcast or this episode, but
they have no idea how to do itall right? So the first thing
is, most of us are not beingstraightforward enough and
(11:02):
reminding people clearly andconsistently what the name of
our podcast is. And I could goon an entire episode, long rant
about this. I won't, but halfthe time, someone's like, listen
to my podcast episode or showinga clip from their podcast. I
have no idea what podcast that'sfrom. I'm hunting around the
(11:22):
profile. I'm totally lost. I'mstarting to think that maybe
they don't even have a podcast.This was just a podcast they
were a guest on, you know, andI'm so guilty of this too. I
remember a few years ago, beforeI really kind of realized this,
I would be making promotionalcontent for podcasts that I was
producing, and I just put thecover art for the podcast, like
so the logo so tiny on thevideo. And think that people
(11:45):
knew what that meant. Theydon't. They don't know what it
means. They don't. So what Iwant you to say is, I want you
to spell it out for people sayyou can listen to my podcast,
podcast for profit, with MorganFranklin, new episodes on Monday
on all major streaming platformsand YouTube. So tell people what
day it comes out, tell the fullname of your podcast. Tell them
(12:07):
where it is, tell them if it'son YouTube. Don't leave anything
to chance, because I promiseyou, people don't even know the
name of your podcast. Andanother thing in this vein is
having the correct linking toyour podcast. It is 2025, there
is no reason your audience hasto look around for where to
listen to your podcast. Itbetter be linked everywhere.
(12:30):
It's in your link tree. It's inyour posts. It's connected to
everything with the full name ofthe podcast. And if you think
it's overkill, then you'reprobably doing it right. Because
I'm telling you, I recordanywhere from four to eight
podcast episodes a month withguests, and these people don't
know where to find podcasts, andthey don't really understand how
(12:51):
podcasts work. So they arepeople that are literally coming
on podcasts that don't know howthey work. They have no idea how
to listen to them. So make surethat you are telling people,
Hey, go listen to this episode.In the Link, in the caption,
wherever it may be, tell peoplewhere to go. So the last thing
that I want to talk about inthis episode is being consistent
(13:12):
with advertising new episodesand whether this is free or paid
advertising, there is no reasona week goes by and you aren't
telling people about your newepisode. They say it takes eight
to 12 touch points for a buyerto buy, and we've already talked
about this earlier in theepisode, but listeners are
(13:32):
giving you their most preciousresource of all their time. So
if you really want people tolisten to your podcast episodes,
you should probably be puttingout at least one piece of
content every day, but never,ever less than once a week,
because truthfully, at thatpoint, why even have one. And if
you want to work with me one onone to create podcast
(13:54):
advertising that works for yourpodcast, my coaching information
is in the episode description,or you can email me at Morgan,
at Morgan Franklin dot media.You can also shop my digital
template store that willdefinitely help you get started
with making social media posts.I have Canva templates for
social media that I've designedand perfected over the years to
(14:16):
help convert followers intolisteners. And as always, I
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