February 3, 2025 • 12 mins
Only 35% of podcasts make money. If I'm being honest, I thought it would be less. 😬
Most podcasts will never get out of the red - and it's not their fault! Podcasting is expensive, time consuming and everyone thinks they're going to make money from it. In this episode we’ll talk about the two kinds of podcasts that actually make money. How to better align your podcast with one of these two strategies and why so many podcasters are never able to monetize their podcast.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Morgan Franklin (00:01):
Earlier this week, I was in between
recordings for a podcast that Ido on location at an office
building, and a man walks in forthe regular business this office
conducts, and he's asking aboutthe podcast equipment and what
we're doing. And this happens,I'd say, a few times a day when
we're recording the podcast inoffice, so I usually don't think
that much of it. But this guysits down, and after he asked me
(00:22):
about the equipment, he says, Sodo you make any money off of it?
And of course, this made melaugh, not because of the actual
question, but because, usuallywe're not so straightforward
about asking people how we'remaking money. I live in the
south, and usually this is notsomething that someone would ask
the first time that they meetyou. So naturally, I'm laughing,
(00:42):
and I say, you know, most of themoney that we make goes back
into producing the show andtrying to grow it. So then, of
course, as this conversationpretty much always goes, he
launches into a 10 minute pitchto me about the podcast that he
has been brooding on over thepast five years. This
conversation inspired me to makethis episode because while most
(01:02):
of us understand the possibilityof making money podcasting, we
don't fully understand the kindof podcast that makes money.
According to captivate.fm only35% of podcasters will ever make
a dime from podcasting, andhonestly, I thought that it
would be way lower in thisepisode. We'll talk about the
(01:24):
two different kinds of podcaststhat actually make money. How to
better align your podcast withone of these two strategies and
why so many podcasters are neverable to monetize their podcast.
Hello and welcome to podcast forprofit. My name is Morgan
Franklin. I'm a PodcastProducer, strategist and
(01:45):
educator. This podcast will helpyou create and grow a podcast
that cuts through the noise ofsocial media and speaks directly
to your target audience. Ifyou're ready to create a podcast
that will align you with theexperts in your industry,
position yourself as a trustedleader and create another source
of revenue for your business.You're in the right place. I
(02:09):
live in a smallish town inTennessee. I'd say about 40,000
residents, give or take. Growingup, we had several different
locally owned grocery stores, afew big name stores, but we all
more or less lived in harmonytogether. Over the past 10
years, I've seen almost everymid sized, locally owned grocery
store close expansion of our bigname grocery stores, and, you
(02:33):
know, the entrance of a fewmicro farm to table markets,
those boutique, kind of tinylittle grocery stores, basically
either big and cheap stores thathave everything you would need,
or small and expensive and veryselective options. And to me,
this is the perfect comparisonto podcasts that make money you
(02:56):
have your big name, broadcoverage, podcasts like Joe
Rogan, call her daddy, MelRobbins, and then you have much
more niche, specializedpodcasts, like, for example, the
podcast that you're listening toright now. All these podcasts
make money, but they make moneyfor different reasons and appeal
(03:17):
to much different audiences.Normally, there are two kind of
podcasts that make money. Thefirst is the commercially
popular mainstream podcast thatis reaching a broad audience,
and I'd say, gets at least100,000 downloads on new
episodes in the first 24 hours.Again, that's podcasts like new
(03:38):
heights with Travis, Kelce,Conan O'Brien Huberman lab
podcast consistently ranking inthe top 200 of the all category
on Apple podcast or Spotify.Basically the celebrities of
podcasting, the other kind ofpodcast that makes money besides
these really well knownpodcasts, are the specific niche
(04:01):
industry or interest specificpodcast. For example, I think
about all the marketing podcaststhat I love to listen to,
especially as someone who worksin marketing and digital media,
these podcasts are veryimportant to me. I like them
just as much as the big namepodcasts, but they're probably
never going to be on the Appletop 200 All Categories list,
(04:23):
right? And that's okay. They'reprobably never gonna get 100,000
downloads in 24 hours. Andagain, that's okay. That doesn't
stop them from making a fulltime income and growing a team
around this podcast. Let me use,for example, one of my favorite
podcasts about learning how tomarket and grow your business on
(04:44):
Pinterest. It's called simplepin podcast with Kate all and
Kate is incredible. If you guysdon't listen to this podcast,
you should, especially if youwant to get into Pinterest. But
she has so many ways that shemonetizes her podcast, and this
is just by me listening to herpodcast, knowing this and. Not
really. I mean, I've neverbought a service through her,
but I know that she has digitalproducts. I know she has
(05:05):
education, templates,worksheets, workbook coaching.
You can hire her team to manageyour Pinterest or to run ads on
your Pinterest. They do it all.And I'm sure that she has a very
lucrative business and podcaststhat work in tandem together.
The story that I was telling youearlier in the episode about the
guy that came into the officewhere I was recording that
(05:25):
podcast isn't connected to abusiness. It gets about 40,000
downloads per month and doesn'thave any kind of business or
service that we could sell.However, we've been very
intentional about knowing ouraudience and keeping that
audience local and specific. Weknow exactly who is listening to
this podcast every week, andthat's why we're able to sell ad
(05:48):
slots to advertisers and makemoney off this podcast, even
though it's not as big as thosebig name ones, and we're not
selling anything through abusiness. You either need to
have a wide enough audience thatbrands want to advertise with
you because you have a bigaudience, or you need to have a
specific enough audience thatbrands see the value in knowing
(06:09):
exactly who listens to yourpodcast. You know, if I could
tell every podcaster who wantedto make money podcasting one
thing, it'd be that either youwork hard enough and get lucky
enough to have a huge podcastwhere you need to be specific
enough to know exactly what kindof audience you have. This is
(06:30):
why, when people tell me thatthey want to start a podcast
because they think they'refunny, or their friends have
tons of stories, or whatever itmay be, my first question always
is, who will listen to thispodcast. That's the reverse
engineering practice that everypodcaster and content creator
needs to exercise. So let's talkabout strategy number one, which
(06:51):
is basically the rock starapproach. You're going to grow a
big enough following and haveenough people listening to your
podcast that brands want to haveblanket advertisements with you.
Great. The first thing that youneed to do is focus on at least
four social media outlets, andwhether that's Facebook,
LinkedIn, Tiktok, Instagram,whether it's x, Pinterest,
(07:14):
substack, YouTube, I don'treally care, but I'd be working
and building on those platforms,posting every day, multiple
times a day, trying to get asmany followers and engagement as
you can. If you want a podcastwith a big following, you need
to either have a full timecontent creator or be a full
time content creator yourself.And I know that that's not easy
(07:35):
and it's not cheap, but there isno one, except maybe someone
that was already recognized as acelebrity that can start a
podcast and grow that podcastwithout having any other way to
promote it. You have to use allthe tools in your tool belt. The
second prong of this approach isguesting on other shows and
(07:56):
getting the best possible guestyou can get on your show if I
was going to try to get a topranking show, I would be
reaching out to PR teamsmanagers, trying to get any kind
of celebrity or celebrityadjacent person that would give
me the time of day. You needstar power and you need name
recognition. This is not a timefor having your friends as
(08:18):
guests. Lastly, even if I wastrying to get a wide audience, I
would still be niching down.Let's see. For example, Candace
Owens, on the day that I'mrecording this episode, she's
eighth on the Apple podcastoverall chart. If you don't know
who Candace is, she's aconservative podcaster. She
talks about politics and popculture and conservative
(08:40):
ideologies, she never misses anopportunity to capitalize on
political friction here in theUnited States, she is trying to
reach a wide audience, but she'smaking her opinions and
interests well known. I've saidthis many times, but a friend to
all is a friend to none. And ifyou want to grow quickly on
(09:00):
social media or digital media,share your opinions now, that's
much easier said than done, andif you're sharing political
opinions, you are going to getbacklash, no matter which side
it's coming from. But if youwant to speak directly to an
audience like you, share whatyou think going for the broader
reach podcast approach is themost difficult, and isn't one
(09:24):
that I normally recommend toclients, unless you have an
audience following you fromsomewhere else, or you are a
celebrity in some capacity, it'slike saying that you're going to
be an influencer, and it mighthappen, but there is a much
greater probability that it willnot so what would I recommend to
you, if you aren't a celebrityof some kind already, I'd
(09:47):
recommend that reverseengineering approach, where you
ask yourself who your listenersare and why they're listening.
Why are they coming back everyweek? What value are you?
Providing for them. Whatspecific interest or industry do
you want to represent throughyour podcast? What do you want
(10:08):
to be known for? All thesequestions can be answered of a
new or existing podcast, and Idon't want you to think because
you already have a podcastthat's not serving a specific
audience, that you can't becomea podcast that answers all these
questions well, because youabsolutely can, and I would love
to help you. I'll include theinformation for working with me
(10:28):
in the episode description, butI have strategy calls that are
made for this exact reason. As Isaid in the beginning of the
episode, 65% of podcasters nevermake a dime from podcasting, and
I'd say most of them go intodebt making the podcast. You
will never just make money frompodcasting. And I think that's a
really big misconception that'snever going to just magically
(10:51):
happen. I think the day and agewe're living in, we think if we
just make enough content thateventually it will be worth
money. But that's just not true.There's no build it, and they
will come guarantee. And youknow, all that being said, I
truly believe that everypodcaster can make money
podcasting, every podcast can bea success if you know how, and
(11:13):
you stay persistent in trying,if you want to work with me, one
on one to see how your podcastcould monetize, or what you need
to do to start building anaudience that's monetizable. My
contact information is in theepisode description. Or you can
send me a message at Morgan, atMorgan Franklin, dot media, I
(11:35):
love to hear from you, and asalways, I can't wait to listen
to your podcast. Hey, thank youso much for joining me on this
episode. If you enjoyed thepodcast and you'd like to hear
more episodes like this one, goahead and subscribe to the show.
New episodes air every Mondaymorning. And if you found this
episode valuable and you want tohelp other business owners and
podcasters, will you leave me afive star review. It helps the
(11:58):
show rank higher in the chartsand brings more entrepreneurs
the information they need tostart making money on their
podcast.
Earlier this week, I was in between
recordings for a podcast that Ido on location at an office
building, and a man walks in forthe regular business this office
conducts, and he's asking aboutthe podcast equipment and what
we're doing. And this happens,I'd say, a few times a day when
we're recording the podcast inoffice, so I usually don't think
that much of it. But this guysits down, and after he asked me
(00:22):
about the equipment, he says, Sodo you make any money off of it?
And of course, this made melaugh, not because of the actual
question, but because, usuallywe're not so straightforward
about asking people how we'remaking money. I live in the
south, and usually this is notsomething that someone would ask
the first time that they meetyou. So naturally, I'm laughing,
(00:42):
and I say, you know, most of themoney that we make goes back
into producing the show andtrying to grow it. So then, of
course, as this conversationpretty much always goes, he
launches into a 10 minute pitchto me about the podcast that he
has been brooding on over thepast five years. This
conversation inspired me to makethis episode because while most
(01:02):
of us understand the possibilityof making money podcasting, we
don't fully understand the kindof podcast that makes money.
According to captivate.fm only35% of podcasters will ever make
a dime from podcasting, andhonestly, I thought that it
would be way lower in thisepisode. We'll talk about the
(01:24):
two different kinds of podcaststhat actually make money. How to
better align your podcast withone of these two strategies and
why so many podcasters are neverable to monetize their podcast.
Hello and welcome to podcast forprofit. My name is Morgan
Franklin. I'm a PodcastProducer, strategist and
(01:45):
educator. This podcast will helpyou create and grow a podcast
that cuts through the noise ofsocial media and speaks directly
to your target audience. Ifyou're ready to create a podcast
that will align you with theexperts in your industry,
position yourself as a trustedleader and create another source
of revenue for your business.You're in the right place. I
(02:09):
live in a smallish town inTennessee. I'd say about 40,000
residents, give or take. Growingup, we had several different
locally owned grocery stores, afew big name stores, but we all
more or less lived in harmonytogether. Over the past 10
years, I've seen almost everymid sized, locally owned grocery
store close expansion of our bigname grocery stores, and, you
(02:33):
know, the entrance of a fewmicro farm to table markets,
those boutique, kind of tinylittle grocery stores, basically
either big and cheap stores thathave everything you would need,
or small and expensive and veryselective options. And to me,
this is the perfect comparisonto podcasts that make money you
(02:56):
have your big name, broadcoverage, podcasts like Joe
Rogan, call her daddy, MelRobbins, and then you have much
more niche, specializedpodcasts, like, for example, the
podcast that you're listening toright now. All these podcasts
make money, but they make moneyfor different reasons and appeal
(03:17):
to much different audiences.Normally, there are two kind of
podcasts that make money. Thefirst is the commercially
popular mainstream podcast thatis reaching a broad audience,
and I'd say, gets at least100,000 downloads on new
episodes in the first 24 hours.Again, that's podcasts like new
(03:38):
heights with Travis, Kelce,Conan O'Brien Huberman lab
podcast consistently ranking inthe top 200 of the all category
on Apple podcast or Spotify.Basically the celebrities of
podcasting, the other kind ofpodcast that makes money besides
these really well knownpodcasts, are the specific niche
(04:01):
industry or interest specificpodcast. For example, I think
about all the marketing podcaststhat I love to listen to,
especially as someone who worksin marketing and digital media,
these podcasts are veryimportant to me. I like them
just as much as the big namepodcasts, but they're probably
never going to be on the Appletop 200 All Categories list,
(04:23):
right? And that's okay. They'reprobably never gonna get 100,000
downloads in 24 hours. Andagain, that's okay. That doesn't
stop them from making a fulltime income and growing a team
around this podcast. Let me use,for example, one of my favorite
podcasts about learning how tomarket and grow your business on
(04:44):
Pinterest. It's called simplepin podcast with Kate all and
Kate is incredible. If you guysdon't listen to this podcast,
you should, especially if youwant to get into Pinterest. But
she has so many ways that shemonetizes her podcast, and this
is just by me listening to herpodcast, knowing this and. Not
really. I mean, I've neverbought a service through her,
but I know that she has digitalproducts. I know she has
(05:05):
education, templates,worksheets, workbook coaching.
You can hire her team to manageyour Pinterest or to run ads on
your Pinterest. They do it all.And I'm sure that she has a very
lucrative business and podcaststhat work in tandem together.
The story that I was telling youearlier in the episode about the
guy that came into the officewhere I was recording that
(05:25):
podcast isn't connected to abusiness. It gets about 40,000
downloads per month and doesn'thave any kind of business or
service that we could sell.However, we've been very
intentional about knowing ouraudience and keeping that
audience local and specific. Weknow exactly who is listening to
this podcast every week, andthat's why we're able to sell ad
(05:48):
slots to advertisers and makemoney off this podcast, even
though it's not as big as thosebig name ones, and we're not
selling anything through abusiness. You either need to
have a wide enough audience thatbrands want to advertise with
you because you have a bigaudience, or you need to have a
specific enough audience thatbrands see the value in knowing
(06:09):
exactly who listens to yourpodcast. You know, if I could
tell every podcaster who wantedto make money podcasting one
thing, it'd be that either youwork hard enough and get lucky
enough to have a huge podcastwhere you need to be specific
enough to know exactly what kindof audience you have. This is
(06:30):
why, when people tell me thatthey want to start a podcast
because they think they'refunny, or their friends have
tons of stories, or whatever itmay be, my first question always
is, who will listen to thispodcast. That's the reverse
engineering practice that everypodcaster and content creator
needs to exercise. So let's talkabout strategy number one, which
(06:51):
is basically the rock starapproach. You're going to grow a
big enough following and haveenough people listening to your
podcast that brands want to haveblanket advertisements with you.
Great. The first thing that youneed to do is focus on at least
four social media outlets, andwhether that's Facebook,
LinkedIn, Tiktok, Instagram,whether it's x, Pinterest,
(07:14):
substack, YouTube, I don'treally care, but I'd be working
and building on those platforms,posting every day, multiple
times a day, trying to get asmany followers and engagement as
you can. If you want a podcastwith a big following, you need
to either have a full timecontent creator or be a full
time content creator yourself.And I know that that's not easy
(07:35):
and it's not cheap, but there isno one, except maybe someone
that was already recognized as acelebrity that can start a
podcast and grow that podcastwithout having any other way to
promote it. You have to use allthe tools in your tool belt. The
second prong of this approach isguesting on other shows and
(07:56):
getting the best possible guestyou can get on your show if I
was going to try to get a topranking show, I would be
reaching out to PR teamsmanagers, trying to get any kind
of celebrity or celebrityadjacent person that would give
me the time of day. You needstar power and you need name
recognition. This is not a timefor having your friends as
(08:18):
guests. Lastly, even if I wastrying to get a wide audience, I
would still be niching down.Let's see. For example, Candace
Owens, on the day that I'mrecording this episode, she's
eighth on the Apple podcastoverall chart. If you don't know
who Candace is, she's aconservative podcaster. She
talks about politics and popculture and conservative
(08:40):
ideologies, she never misses anopportunity to capitalize on
political friction here in theUnited States, she is trying to
reach a wide audience, but she'smaking her opinions and
interests well known. I've saidthis many times, but a friend to
all is a friend to none. And ifyou want to grow quickly on
(09:00):
social media or digital media,share your opinions now, that's
much easier said than done, andif you're sharing political
opinions, you are going to getbacklash, no matter which side
it's coming from. But if youwant to speak directly to an
audience like you, share whatyou think going for the broader
reach podcast approach is themost difficult, and isn't one
(09:24):
that I normally recommend toclients, unless you have an
audience following you fromsomewhere else, or you are a
celebrity in some capacity, it'slike saying that you're going to
be an influencer, and it mighthappen, but there is a much
greater probability that it willnot so what would I recommend to
you, if you aren't a celebrityof some kind already, I'd
(09:47):
recommend that reverseengineering approach, where you
ask yourself who your listenersare and why they're listening.
Why are they coming back everyweek? What value are you?
Providing for them. Whatspecific interest or industry do
you want to represent throughyour podcast? What do you want
(10:08):
to be known for? All thesequestions can be answered of a
new or existing podcast, and Idon't want you to think because
you already have a podcastthat's not serving a specific
audience, that you can't becomea podcast that answers all these
questions well, because youabsolutely can, and I would love
to help you. I'll include theinformation for working with me
(10:28):
in the episode description, butI have strategy calls that are
made for this exact reason. As Isaid in the beginning of the
episode, 65% of podcasters nevermake a dime from podcasting, and
I'd say most of them go intodebt making the podcast. You
will never just make money frompodcasting. And I think that's a
really big misconception that'snever going to just magically
(10:51):
happen. I think the day and agewe're living in, we think if we
just make enough content thateventually it will be worth
money. But that's just not true.There's no build it, and they
will come guarantee. And youknow, all that being said, I
truly believe that everypodcaster can make money
podcasting, every podcast can bea success if you know how, and
(11:13):
you stay persistent in trying,if you want to work with me, one
on one to see how your podcastcould monetize, or what you need
to do to start building anaudience that's monetizable. My
contact information is in theepisode description. Or you can
send me a message at Morgan, atMorgan Franklin, dot media, I
(11:35):
love to hear from you, and asalways, I can't wait to listen
to your podcast. Hey, thank youso much for joining me on this
episode. If you enjoyed thepodcast and you'd like to hear
more episodes like this one, goahead and subscribe to the show.
New episodes air every Mondaymorning. And if you found this
episode valuable and you want tohelp other business owners and
podcasters, will you leave me afive star review. It helps the
(11:58):
show rank higher in the chartsand brings more entrepreneurs
the information they need tostart making money on their
podcast.
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