Join James Cridland and Sam Sethi
INTERVIEW:
- Evo Terra - Podcast Pontifications - he lists his helpful commandments here.
PODNEWS HEADLINES:
- How’s podcasting doing for Spotify? Internal Spotify podcast consumption data has been leaked to Business Insider.
- If Spotify Isn't getting much value from Gimlet, that feeling’s mutual
- Matt Deegan writes more about the figures and the strategy of exclusives
- Spotify has expanded “Music and Talk” shows to fifteen more countries
- Spotify will let all US-based Anchor podcasters sell subscriptions
DISCOVERY TOOLS:
- Podchaser has refreshed their creator profiles and alerts.
- Entale has also added a way to follow people and be notified whenever they’re featured in new episodes.
- You can now link to a specific timestamp in a podcast episode on Buzzsprout.
- Podcast host Captivate now sends podcast credits automatically to Podchaser using the Podcast Taxonomy
- Apple has also rolled out a social media link generator to help promote y
Start podcasting - keep podcasting!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
Connect With Us:
- Email: weekly@podnews.net
- Fediverse: @james@bne.social and @samsethi@podcastindex.social
- Support us: www.buzzsprout.com/1538779/support
- Get Podnews: podnews.net
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James (00:01):
Welcome to Podland.
The last word inpodcasting news.
Portland is sponsoredby Buzzsprout.
He is by over a hundred thousandpodcasters like us to host,
promote and track your podcast.
And by riverside.fm version2.0 recording podcasts and
video interviews in studioquality from anywhere.
Just got an upgrade.
We're using it now.
It's the 26th of August, 2021.
(00:24):
I'm James crude and theeditor of pod news.net
here in Australia.
Sam (00:27):
Hello, I'm Sam Steffi.
The editor of Sam
Evo (00:30):
Talks Technology and I'm emo Tara.
And later I'll be talking aboutpodcast apps and why they suck
James (00:37):
pod lands a weekly podcast where Sam and
I delve deeper intothe week's podcasting
Sam (00:41):
news.
So James let's get on withthe big stories of that
week here in Portland.
And they're takenfrom a pod news.
How was podcastingdoing for Spotify?
James?
Let's start off with our massive
James (00:53):
question like that.
Yes.
let's start off with amassive question like that.
It turns out the businessinsider got some leaked
data from Septemberof last year, 331.
Million hours of podcasts.
They measure podcasts bythe hour at Spotify in that
month, September 18.7% ofall podcasts time listened
(01:13):
to was made by Spotify.
So 18% seems to say that Spotifyis doing quite well, but Gimlet
accounted for just not 0.4%of all podcasts listening.
I'd given it was boughtfor $230 million and the.
Commentary around that frombusiness insider is, was Gimlet
really a very good investment.
(01:34):
And I kind of wonder,
Sam (01:36):
it doesn't seem like it's getting much value now.
Gimlet, we're a bit peevedthough, because they
started putting out onGimlet reply or a tweet.
What did they say,
James (01:45):
James?
they posted this very strangetweet, basically saying ever
since we were sold to Spotify,we haven't had any control
over the ads and just knowthat we don't endorse the ad,
which is currently running.
And then there was a pauseand then we meant the
ad for the U S Miller.
Okay.
Somebody at reply all is notparticularly happy about their
(02:07):
show being used to recruitnew soldiers and stuff.
as I said on the pod newspodcast, a couple of days ago,
the children are fighting again.
It really does
Sam (02:18):
feel like that.
Nick Hilton, right?
Good posting mediumabout the separation of
creators and advertisers.
And I feels like it's an oldargument, the magazine, and
paperworld used to have thiswhere advertisers want to slam
an advert right next to content.
And it seemed inappropriate.
He said, I expect a relationshipbetween a show and an
advertiser and podcasting thatI don't in any other medium.
(02:40):
So I think whathe's trying to say.
And he might be trying to backa Gimlet, which is look, if
the show's about, I dunno,cooking, is it appropriate
to slam an ad for the U Smilitary right next to it?
It doesn't seem appropriately
James (02:54):
related.
yeah.
And I think also podcastingis very much closer to
the advertisers in termsof, for example, later
when I talked to you.
Yeah.
Evo talks about a feature thathe would really like, am I pop
in which you'll hear later andsay, and Buzzsprout offers that
and Buzzsprout is our sponsor.
And I talk about that for a bit.
That's the sort of thing thatpodcast listeners expect is that
(03:19):
closer relationships, I thinknext, absolutely right there.
You don't expect that closerelationship and India.
It's very much frowned upon.
When you look at the printmedia, everybody talks
about, the relationshipbetween church and state
and all this kind of stuff.
But actually I thinkthat there is something
there around podcastingbeing much more intimate.
(03:39):
if you're playingthe drinking game.
Yes.
Did say intimate, haveanother drink about podcast
advertising and, yeah.
So I think Nick'sabsolutely right there.
Now,
Sam (03:48):
Matt Deegan also has written about what's been going
on with the Spotify figuresand he said, it's interesting
to see hours consumed ratherthan downloads, which is what
you just said, James, as astreamer, it's a metric that's
pretty exclusive to Spotify.
They know what you actuallylistened to rather than just
adding up downloads, which iswhat I've been saying for a long
(04:09):
time that I think downloads.
Oh, dead.
As a metric let's as anindustry, get rid of them,
because I think it's the dirtylittle secret of podcasting,
you'll say to advertisers,yeah, we had 500 downloads or
5,000 or whatever your numbermay be as an advertiser.
You don't know whether youradvert was listened to or not.
(04:29):
Whereas Spotify can actuallytell you how far along
the stream the podcast waslistened to and therefore,
whether your ad was, I think.
The industry ourselvesneeds to move away from the
CPC model to a CPA model.
James (04:45):
I think cost per thousand versus cost per action
is a different conversation.
But I do think certainlythat, Brian Violetta in
sounds profitable, verygood website newsletter
sounds profitable.com.
he was saying that appleactually missed a trick.
Obviously apple had a bug withsome versions of apple podcasts
recently, which essentiallymeant that they weren't
automatically downloading shows.
(05:06):
And he was saying thatapple missed a trick because
actually it will be betterfor the industry if we were
to stop automatic downloads.
Now, I think that apple don'tnecessarily think that's
particularly fair becauseI think that, it's just
somebody else piling ontoapple and apple have not had
a very good couple of monthsand I can quite see apples.
But, I can also, I thinkthe point that, I took out
(05:30):
of Brian's piece was thatauto downloads shouldn't
be the default in anypodcast app these days.
We don't reallyneed it these days.
I'm not saying getrid of downloads.
Altogether.
I'm not saying even getrid of auto downloads.
But what I am saying isfor the vast majority
of people, we don't needautomatic downloads anymore.
(05:51):
It would make for much betterstats, it would make for
much better information foradvertisers and frankly much
better ad targeting as well.
If we didn't haveauto downloads.
And instead when you pressthe play button, that is the
user initiated download, thatgets the podcast for you.
Sam (06:09):
I think.
A bug or a featurewhen it first came out.
And I still think heshould have been a
feature, apple called it a
James (06:15):
bug, but it's a difficult thing because if
you then turn around and yousay, that's 11% of podcasts,
which are auto downloadedand never listened to.
We know that number now, whichwe've never known in the past.
So that's a glimpse into thatdata because of apple podcasts.
But yeah.
Which means that there are asignificantly larger amount of
(06:38):
podcasts, which are out therenow, which are never being
listened to, it's all pricedinto the cost per thousand.
So I don't think it's aproblem for the industry, but
a wouldn't it be interestingif there was a change in the
way that we thought aboutthese things and that actually
also downloads wasn't givento people by default, by some
of these large, apps and yeah.
(07:00):
It's very difficult to getSpotify to automatically
download shows.
it's very difficult to getGoogle podcasts to automatically
download shows in PocketCasts,downloading is something which
you turn on, but in overcastand in apple podcasts, auto
downloads are on by default andmaybe that's the best thing.
Maybe we need
Sam (07:19):
a new metric cost per listen.
That would be aninteresting one.
Wouldn't it?
Now James, you've beengetting out your napkin as
well, going back to Spotify.
James (07:28):
I'm not quite sure what that's supposed to mean, but
yes, I did some math or mathsdepending where you live.
please add the S I got hassledby Harry who listens to this
podcast and Harry said, no,say maths, but anyway, I
did a little bit of, I did alittle bit of calculations.
(07:48):
If you look at the leakedSpotify, You can work out.
So we know that theaverage length of a podcast
is about 37 minutes.
We know how many hours ofpodcasts were played on Spotify.
So therefore we can workout that there were 543
million podcast playsin total on Spotify.
And Spotify is about20% of the industry.
So you can work out there.
(08:09):
If you include 11% of podcastsbeing auto downloaded and
never listened to, youcan probably work out that
there are at least 3 billionpodcasts downloads per month.
And actually that figureis probably too low
because that assumes thateverybody on Spotify.
Never bails out of a showearly or fast forwards it.
(08:30):
So let's assume that twothirds of shows are listened
to right to the end, whichis data that I've seen in a
number of different studies.
So maybe we have 4 billiondownloads per month in
terms of podcasting.
I notice that Libsyn iscurrently quoting 7.9
billion per quarter for theirnetwork and their network is.
(08:51):
not necessarilyparticularly large.
So maybe again, maybeI'm underestimating it,
4 billion downloads amonth is not bad, I think.
Yeah,
Sam (08:59):
no, it's very tasty that number now, the number I
thought that was interestingwas the 37 minutes though.
and it goes back to again,if you've got a streaming
measurement, you could actuallythen put a different price
point on ads, anything before20 minutes, anything in the
20 minutes to 37 minutesand then anything after
James (09:18):
this one.
NPR was trying to do with rad acouple of years ago was to have
a much more robust analyticsplatform that allowed you to
know what ads were listenedto in a particular show.
And therefore to beable to report that
back on a sample basis.
And that could be a planfor, how you pay rod had
(09:40):
perceived issues with privacy.
And that was the reason whythat didn't get anything.
But, maybe there's somethinginteresting, particularly around
what you can do with boostswith, cryptocurrency, because
actually a cryptocurrencypayment for this show is being
made every single minute.
So you could theoretically goand have a look at the amount
(10:02):
of cryptocurrency paymentsand work out some form of
audience numbers from that.
But, I think it's a littlebit too early to be talking
about that quite yet.
Sam (10:12):
Some have pointed out to us that their favorite
Spotify produce podcastshave disappeared from
their usual podcast feeds.
Can you explainthat to me, James
James (10:21):
Spotify has apparently taken a few more shows away
from standard RSS feeds andhave made them exclusive.
I think what I have sincediscovered is some of those
shows are actually they'vekilled the RSS feed altogether.
So if you try searching for.
You still might find thatpodcast as a ghost in one, in
(10:44):
some of the is, but as soon asyou try listening to a show, you
find out that you can't anymore.
Spotify have explained thatthe reason why is that they
get better stats from exclusiveshows because they get the
streaming stats, not thestreaming universe comments
rather than the download stats.
And so therefore they can usethat to make better shows.
(11:04):
I'm not so sure.
Interesting to see them.
Adding a few moreexclusive shows.
One of those is serialkillers, which is one of my
favorite names for a podcast.
Cause it does what it sayson the tin serial killers.
I wonder what that'sa podcast about.
Oh, I know what that is.
A podcast about isabout serial killers.
Yeah.
It passes the Ron seal test it.
Doesn't it just, no onein America will understand
Sam (11:25):
that.
No.
Or anywhere around the worldactually, but there you go.
Subscription Spotfire hasnow turned on subscriptions
to elect all US-based anchorpodcasts, sell subscriptions.
What are they?
Yeah.
James (11:39):
So anyone with an anchor show in the U S can
now put their podcast into,a paid podcast, subscription
service, with Spotify.
And that's all very exciting.
They've added new price tiers.
You can now.
Ask for your listeners, emailaddresses, which they can
share with you if they want to,which is one of the criticisms,
(12:00):
obviously against apple.
The other criticismagainst apple is keeping
30% of the revenue.
Whereas Spotify is keepingnothing of the revenue for
the first two years and then5% of the revenue after that.
And I think that interestinglycoincides with a piece in the
verge where a number of podcastscompanies are criticizing apple
podcasts for their subscriptionproducts so far, Spotify is
(12:22):
going to let everybody else.
So even you, Mr.
Sathi sell subscriptionson Spotify.
If you're an anchor podcaster,probably in September, so
we'll be able to buy shows inSeptember as foreign types.
And it basically said, prettywell soon after that, we'll
(12:43):
be able to sell them as well.
So good news for people who wishto sell their particular show.
Sam (12:50):
Now do you have to pay the, anything to become a
creator of subscriptions like
James (12:56):
you do with apple, you don't at all,
from what I understand.
So it's just as simple as,getting your stuff in there,
which might be interesting.
I think it'll be interestingto see what Spotify does here.
Interesting.
Also to see what Spotifydoes, if I was to.
Create an anchor podcast,put one show in there, sell
(13:16):
a bunch of subscriptions andthen not do any other shows.
I'm not quite surewhat recompense
Spotify has, for that.
And I'm not quite sure what thatmeans for people that might get
a little bit upset about that.
I think it's going to bereally interesting to watch.
It's a very different modelthan the apple model of paying,
whatever it was, 20 bucks or 30bucks to get into this service.
(13:39):
And then apple actually humanlymoderates, you and checks
that you're a good person.
my suspicion is thatSpotify will work in a
slightly different way.
So it'll beinteresting to watch.
I did read somewhere todayand I'm not quite sure
where the figure came from.
That only 100 anchor showsso far have made themselves
available for paid subscription,because it has been available
(14:03):
in beta for a couple of months.
I'm not quite sure of theveracity of that number,
but, again, I think that'san interesting number to see.
And for the record.
Over a thousand paid forpodcasts with apple podcasts
and over a thousand podcastssurrounding value for value
with the podcast index.
so that's where we areand by the way, nearly 4
(14:23):
million podcasts out there.
So it's still avery small thing.
Sam (14:26):
Okay.
Last bit of, Spotfire newsbefore we move on, Spotify
has expanded its musicand talk shows to 15 more
countries, including Germany.
The Philippines and Brazil,the service also has a new
look, which is very nice.
And there are a few exampleswhich mix music and talk.
You can look at, Brad Hillstake cover, and you can
(14:48):
look at our Tom Webster'sdeep six, for example.
it's still a service thoughthat I find is one Dato.
It needs to move on.
If it wants toactually do what radio.
Presenters though.
Yeah.
And allowing you to mix
James (15:02):
over the music.
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that part ofthat is due to the music
licenses that Spotify have.
Because if you allow somebodyto talk over the music, then
you're making a derivativeproducts, which, Spotify don't
necessarily have the rightsfor both Brad Hills take cover,
which is a very good show.
All about cover versionsand Tom Webster's deep sex.
which is a very good showwith six songs, which are
(15:24):
somehow related to each other.
Both of those are pod faded.
If you like both of those Tomand Brad have given up on.
So what does that tell you?
partially it might tellyou that they were just.
Kicking the tires and tryingit out, but also partially
that may tell you that, itwasn't necessarily something
that they were getting anyfeedback from any data from and
(15:46):
didn't feel it was worthwhile.
Continuing.
I can't really talk for eitherTom off or for Brad, but you
get that feeling that mightbe happening, interesting
to see it being rolled out.
There's, a nice, moreswish UI, which people
might have fun with.
And, but I would agree.
Yeah.
Think it's not quitethere yet as a product
Sam (16:04):
now swiftly on this week's James and whether
you meant to or not, you'vebeen writing a lot and
I've called it discovery.
Now we've got seven differentforms of new discovery that
we're going to discuss nowin the next three hours.
And then next round I pullup at coffee and settle
James (16:24):
back.
What's
Sam (16:24):
number one, he says moving swiftly.
number one, just fuck that.
Feel.
Matt Deegan, a friend of thechair again, he's been talking
about, there's too much materialaround in terms of you probably
haven't got enough room toreally give Spotify promo value.
Yeah.
To your acquisitions.
Basically, he's saying that theissue with gambler and podcasts
(16:46):
and ringer and all the othershows that have been created
Spotify, isn't allowing thatdiscovery of those new shows.
Maybe that's the reasonwhy Gimlet has only got
0.4% in the Spotify stats.
So the question is, shouldSpotify create a new
separate podcast clientand make discovery easily?
(17:06):
Maybe we've talked aboutthis before, briefly as well.
Haven't we, James, they
James (17:10):
have made us per radio client for their
algorithmic jukeboxes, whichthey trialed in Australia.
We got somethingfirst for a change.
so that was nice.
I think the problem with Gimletisn't promo, I think the problem
with Gimlet is that Gimlet staffappeals to public radio lists.
Slightly younger publicradio listeners who
are not using Spotify.
(17:31):
And I think that,that's the main issue.
It's the wrong audiencefor the wrong product.
And I think either that meansthat Gimlet needs to get younger
in its outlook and producemore of the sorts of products
like, call her daddy and Joe.
Or it means that Gimletwas just the wrong purchase
because it's just not awell aligned audience.
(17:53):
I don't actually think it'sa promo issue at all here,
but I would also agreethat it is really hard.
If you've got 300 shows,it's really hard to
promote all 300 at once.
It's like a radio station youend up promoting the breakfast.
Because that's the thingthat you want to promote.
You've got your heroesthat you want to promote.
(18:13):
Nobody is promoting whothe evening show is.
He says as an evening show,not for a year, nobody ever
promotes the evening show.
They only promote the breakfastshow because that's where you
get the best bang for your buck.
And maybe that's what Spotifyhas an issue with right now.
Sam (18:30):
ITunes probably went through this when they
were trying to have music.
And then they weretrying to have films.
They were trying to haveother content and they then
tried to create one client.
Then they separated them out.
I suspect Spotify isgoing through that same
tension internally.
Do they try and createthe Uber client one single
app or do they Spotify?
(18:50):
Break it out intotwo or three apps
James (18:52):
and they're chucking audio books in as well.
Of course, they've had audiobooks in Germany for a while
and they're moving that outto other platforms as well.
How's that going to fitinto the Spotify UI?
yeah, I agree.
I think it's going to be harderand harder for Spotify to
promote this kind of stuff.
Sam (19:07):
Okay.
Now a discovery too.
And this one.
Pod chasers refresh theircreator profiles, and now
you can follow creatorsacross different shows.
and they've also changedthe roles to credit.
What do you think of that
James (19:23):
one, James?
Yeah.
So they've stopped callingeverybody a creator and
they've started havinga list of credits, which
I think is a good idea.
So if you have look at thelisting, for example, for pod
land at the pod news websites,then you'll find it now says
credits and not creators.
Cause I was usingtheir language.
It's a data that has comefrom the podcast taxonomy
(19:45):
as well, which is helpfulbecause it means that we all
know now what an editor is,what a podcast host is, what
an executive producer isand all that kind of stuff.
Sam (19:55):
Now, jumping ahead slightly, one of the
companies captivate.
Has done somethingvery interesting for
discovery as well.
It now sends the podcastcredits automatically to pod
James (20:06):
chaser.
Yes.
So I'm an advisor to captivate.
I need to say that upfront, ifyou are doing a podcast within
captivate and you're actually.
Adding people to yourauthorization list, so you
can have the host to usingcaptivate and the editor using
captivate and everything else.
It uses that as credits, whichit then automatically sends
(20:28):
off to pod chaser as well.
They're using thepodcast taxonomy too.
again, a great planbecause it allows.
Anybody who is using a podcasthost and captivate in this
particular case to get thosecredits, in, as a standard
fashion, into a pod chaser to,what captivate has also done.
And I just mentioned itthere around podcast networks
(20:49):
is that they've added.
Podcast networksavailable to all users.
now, so if you want to runyour own podcast network and
you want full visibility ofhow everybody's doing, and
you want team management andyou want a network website
and everything else, thencaptivate is the place to be.
Because it's ma it's givingthat available to everybody.
if you're on the bottom tierat captivate, I think you
(21:11):
can have a podcast networkof three or maybe four
shows and that goes up asyour, tier goes up as well.
I think it's a goodthing, although I would
say that would not,
Sam (21:21):
I've also done one other thing, which is they've
introduced cross-promotional
James (21:25):
feed drops.
Oh yes.
Which mark is veryproud of that.
and that's very clever becauseit's enabling you to, put a
drop throughout your entirenetwork of a new show that
perhaps you're launchingand that sort of thing.
you've probably heardthat through Wondery and
other large companies.
Now you can do thatwith captivate as well.
(21:45):
And I know that they are workingon analytics around that too.
So you can actually see howwell that is going for you.
So there's some reallyinteresting stuff going on
there, and I'm a, it's acompany which I'm proud to
occasionally take part inand advisor meetings for.
And it's, it is a veryoccasionally no, but you
can really see that's acompany which understands
(22:08):
what podcast is want.
That
Sam (22:10):
was another form of discovery.
And I think as we'll hearfrom me, Terra shortly,
one of the things is he'slooking for all the apps to
start to add more features.
One of the features I'd love iswhat captivates done is for all
the other podcasts companies topush their credits up into pod
chaser, just making it a simplerway that we can all be, then
(22:31):
be discovered across multipleother podcasts that we do.
That'd
James (22:35):
be nice.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
What I would like to see isthat the podcast person tag,
which is how you put creditsinto the RSS feed, I would like
to see that being implementedby these podcast hosts as well.
because I'm sure thatpod chaser a lovely.
But, one com one company,one point of failure
(22:55):
is a concern to me.
So if there's a way of pullingthat credit's information
out of the RSS feed as well,then I think that's probably
where we should be going.
And again, that's podcasttaxonomy compatible, and so
it's well worth having a look.
Sam (23:11):
Okay.
Another discovery thatyou wrote about or is
entail is also added away.
To follow people, as well asfilms and TV shows discuss
within a podcast it's driven bytheir proprietary AI technology.
So Hannah Blakewrote about this.
She said, we've releasedanother feature.
That's transformingpodcast discovery.
You can follow people,films and TVs, as I just
(23:33):
said, within the podcast.
And then you'll benotified whenever they
feature in new episodes.
So again, nice.
If you can list people or thatyou want to know more about
and you discover what else.
James (23:45):
The difference here is the entail is using its own
AI technology, which of coursemeans that you can then follow
any mention of that personor that thing in any podcast,
which is listed in entail.
So it doesn't have to relyon an individual human being
to put that information in.
(24:05):
And that's particularly usefulfor, obviously films and
TV shows, but also frankly,for brands who would really
like to know what people aresaying about them on podcast.
Sam (24:15):
Now, continuing the theme of discovery, which I
am, Buzzsprout our sponsorsand our good friends.
they have basicallytaken on board.
I think we discussedthis many months ago.
Actually.
You mentioned it being able toput a specific timestamp in a
podcast episode and share it.
That's
James (24:34):
great, isn't it?
Yeah.
I think that'sreally good album.
Brooke gave a demonstrationof this on the bus sprout
blog, which you shouldall go and have a look at.
And he chose this very podcast,which was quite a thing.
So thank you album.
That's very kind of you andyes, what they've done with
it is that they've usedthe standard T equals at
the end of the URL, whichYouTube uses Spotify use it.
(24:56):
Okay.
Casts and pod friend also uses.
And that also works onovercast, even though overcast
has a preferred way thatthey want you to do it.
Google podcasts ofcourse works differently.
And of course, apple podcasts.
Doesn't let you do that at all.
as is usually the way, but,being able to share a specific
timestamp and being able tosay, go and listen to that.
(25:18):
From here is areally helpful thing.
And I'm sure that willbe a useful plan for the
future to actually sharestuff on social media.
Sam, should we talk,goods and tech?
Sam (25:28):
No, I think we should talk
James (25:29):
Evo.
Terra let's talk Evo Terra.
You're absolutely correct.
Evo wrote a really goodblog post the other
day and also a podcast.
He has a great podcast.
Podcast pontifications and itwas all about what he wants
to see from a podcast app.
So I caught up with Evoand firstly, I asked him
(25:50):
who Evo Terra is and whathis podcast pontifications
Evo (25:54):
Evo.
Terra is a guy who has beenpodcasting for a very long time.
Since the beginning oftime, actually since 2004.
Since 2016, I focusedmy attention on making a
podcast for others wherebusinesses specific,
basically my mission in life.
Now, here we are in 2021,recording this as you know
is to make podcasting better.
(26:15):
And that's where the wholeimpetus behind podcast.
Pontifications a dailyshort form podcast
where I talk about ways.
Working podcasters can make
James (26:23):
podcasting better.
That's great.
It gives you something tothink about when working on
a podcast and you spoke aboutpodcast apps the other day, you
reckon that there's a problemwith some of the big apps.
Evo (26:33):
I reckon there's a problem with every app.
I haven't been happy withpodcast apps for a very.
Long time.
And I think it's finallytime that we collectively
do something about it andregime change begins with me.
So I'm on a mission totry and find, or at least
make podcast apps better
James (26:54):
as well.
I miss the simple daysof iPod personally,
Evo (26:58):
I Potter X.
Yeah.
Race like Kinski and a few
James (27:01):
others.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I Potter X.
I apologize.
Yes.
I forgot the expert.
You're recommending that peoplego and try some new apps.
So why are you saying that?
Evo (27:12):
Look, the choices from podcast apps have been
stagnant for a long time.
And we have the big onesthat people tend to use.
Like most people like to usefor their iPhones, at least
the apple podcast app, becausethere's default it's, what's on
your phone for the last threeyears, Spotify has been doing
everything they can to get us tomigrate to the Spotify system.
And now we have Amazon outthere and then we have a slew
(27:35):
of podcast apps that have beenaround since the beginning.
not necessarily thebeginning, but have become
staples podcast ads.
Overcast and a slew of others.
And they all do the basicjob of giving you access to
podcasts roughly the same.
But then they stoppeddoing that and they each
(27:55):
have their own differentthings that they do well.
And some of them do betterthan others, but there are
some missing pieces I think,in, in what these apps should
be doing for podcasters.
And it's when I foundJames is really hard.
To get podcast appdevelopers to actually.
Use their app and get intoit and really understand
(28:17):
how it is that podcastersand podcasts listeners
want to consume content.
James (28:22):
That's interesting.
you say you've got a listof must haves for podcasts,
listening apps that none ofthem are doing right now.
None of them
Evo (28:29):
wow.
Doing all four of them.
So I have things that Iwant podcast apps to do,
and some of them do someof them, but none of them.
All of them, shall I run throughmy list of four to why not?
number one, I want to be ableto create show level cues or
(28:50):
lists or groupings or stations,whatever you want to call them.
Now, the reality is a lot ofthe podcast apps out there
do that, but when looking atthe new podcasts, The ones
that are being pimped outby the podcasting 2.0 folks
that are enabling value forvalue and lots of other fun
things, you'd be amazed.
How many of them don'tallow that to happen?
(29:12):
They'll let you queue upindividual episodes, but they
will not let you break downthe podcast you subscribed to
and group them into individualqueues so that if you're
in the mood to listen tolong form audio dramas, you
don't have to be interruptedby somebody every day.
Putting out around threeminutes worth of really
cool podcast tech.
for example.
James (29:33):
So that's number one.
Yeah.
Evo (29:35):
Number two.
Let's talk about those cues.
I would like for one veryspecific cue to be developed
and that very specific cueis I'm calling most recent.
If you will.
And here's why I want that.
James, you and Iproduced daily podcasts.
The number of daily podcastsout there has skyrocketed
(29:55):
in the last few years.
Now, I don't know about you,but if I go on vacation for
a few days and I don't pickup my daily newspaper and I'm
gone for a week, I don't goback and read the episodes.
Starting from the day Iwas gone and get caught.
There's no point in doing that.
It's news it's information.
That's no longer relevant to me.
So I want to most recent, onlyqueue that has just that I
(30:19):
get to decide which podcastswhich shows go into that queue.
And then the only thingthat shows up in there is
the most recent episode ofall of those, rather than
having 16 episodes of.
For example, a daily podcastnews story queued up for
me when I get back from it.
And I
James (30:37):
hear some people do binge on pod news.
How can you possibly do that?
Then this drive,you mad I'm with
Evo (30:44):
you as well.
the nice thing is I just wantthat to be a cue they're there.
All the episodes arestill available, right?
it's not like we'reremoving them and we can't
access them any longer.
I just want this one simplelittle cue to say here's
where you can get caughtup on the most recent.
That you specificallyadded to this queue?
That will be great.
James (31:02):
So that's Evo second commandment.
What's your third.
Evo (31:05):
I want podcast apps to respect RSS feeds that are
serial IIS podcasts thatare designed to be listened
to from the beginning,not the most recent.
you didn't read Michelle Obama'slast book from the last chapter.
You didn't start on that lastchapter and you certainly
didn't watch the 10thepisode of Ted lasso before
(31:27):
you watched the episodesone through nine, right?
It makes no senseto do it that way.
Every reasonable personaccessing a serialized
podcast wants to listen tothe first episode first.
So why not podcast appspresent that to people?
I did a little research onthis, James right now, there
are about 42 thousands.
Podcasts that are tagged ascereal and in most podcasts
(31:52):
listening apps and in almostall of the, if you will, not
the big ones and all of the newpodcast apps, none of them are
flipping the feeds and showingit from the first one first,
weirdly enough, apple, Spotify,and Amazon actually do this.
It's just hard tofind the settings,
James (32:09):
Come on with number four,
Evo (32:10):
I have beat this horse for a long time and I'm going
to keep on beating it as well.
Thanks to the amazing work ofthe people at podcast index.
We now have a transcripttag which goes in our feeds.
Wouldn't it be great.
If that transcript, which isSRT and timestamp to nicely put
right there on the player, onthe phone or on the web app,
(32:31):
the actual transcript, as thewords are being spoken, all of
the info is there timestamps,text, everything, just display
it the same way it works onYouTube, close captions, or even
those are no television shows.
We are ready inour podcast apps.
So that's it just those fourthings and I'll switch to your
(32:52):
app and I'll evangelize it to
James (32:53):
the end of time.
And this is one of the thingsthat I keep on talking to
the folks at Google podcastsabout they already have the
technology to add, not justtake the podcast transcripts,
tag from somebody's podcast,but also add transcripts.
Everyone's podcast, it'sbuilt into Android phones and
I'm there going, why don'tyou build this into your
(33:14):
app specifically so that youcan go out and say, it's the
only app with transcripts forevery single show out there.
And they they look atme and they go, yep.
It's really
Evo (33:25):
frustrating.
It's almost like you needto say Google podcasts.
There's this otherapp called YouTube.
Maybe you've heard of it.
It actually will do that.
That very same thing.
I'm talking about.
YouTube can with a clickof a button automatically
and transcripts toevery single video.
So I think that alphabet, theparent company has a technology.
Can you share
James (33:45):
that seems okay.
To me that I get frustrated atwith podcast apps is I look at
some of the individual apps.
Yeah.
There's a lot of work put intosome of the UI, but the actual
player has no work put into it.
And one of the things thatI like about PocketCasts and
frankly like about Googlepodcasts is the smart speed.
(34:09):
So it gets rid of thegaps and stuff like that.
It's not called Smartspeedcause that's an overcast
registered trademark.
yup.
And what a pocket cast alsohas is something that it
doesn't call voice boost.
Cause that's anotherone of Marco's.
but it's something that makeseverything a little bit louder.
There are some shows out there,not this one, I hope, but there
are some shows out there whereyou're interviewing somebody
(34:29):
or somebody at the other endof a phone line somewhere.
And the other person is really.
And the interviewer isreally loud and it's really
hard to listen to it.
It surprises me that thingslike Smartspeed that voice
boost or whatever, the genericterms for both of those things.
Haven't been productizedinto a bunch of, Android or
(34:50):
iOS, player, SDKs quite yet.
I'm
Evo (34:53):
with you on both of those things, I think
some responsibility lieson the host themselves.
Who've Evers assemblingthis show produced show.
But I also think, especiallyfor the idea of, let's just
call it, normalizing the volumeand getting everything to
a nice 16 minus 16 lumps orwhatever standard we're using.
I like minus 16 laps.
And I think a lot ofthat could be happening
(35:13):
on the hosting side.
Yes.
If in fact we wereuploading wave files, which.
Podcast hostingcompanies aren't 19.
And come to mind.
We'll allow you to upload awave file and we'll whoosh.
I know for a fact automaticallynormalize the tracks.
If you click a little box todo that and get it all nice and
sunny, it'll send out MP3 files.
And then I know otheralternate enclosures as well
(35:35):
for much smaller things.
So a lot of that canbe happening during the
time of creation, butI am totally with you.
I use overcast more thananything else for that
voice boost feature, becausewhen I'm driving in my car,
There is road noise androad noise, significantly
interferes with podcasters.
Who've decided to let somedynamic range creativity
(35:57):
run free on their episodes.
And which basically means Ican't hear the dialogue, which
I think is important to doso I do love that feature.
And yes.
For must haves.
I think there are sometable stakes that everyone
should do just becauseit's the right thing to do.
Getting voices normalized,allowing people to adjust
the speeds back and forth.
Yes.
All of these things are certainnecessary to do, to make a real
(36:19):
podcast app worthy of promoting.
In
James (36:21):
20, 21, or we have a fine sponsor of Buzzsprout,
Buzzsprout have a service calledmagic mastering, which does
much the same sort of thing.
You can upload away a fight ifyou like to buy a sprout and it
will remaster that and sort outthe dynamics for you and make
that into a lovely MP3 file.
If that's what you want.
What have you tried so far then?
Eva, what's the one thatyou're using the most.
(36:42):
It sounds as if it's overcast,but that's not got all
of the features in there.
What else have you found?
That's good.
Evo (36:47):
So I've been, I spent most of last weekend playing
around with three new.
Podcast apps from new podcastapps.com to plug that little
free service, which detailsout the new podcast apps
James (36:58):
boost button.
Now yes.
Hit the boost.
Evo (37:00):
Yes.
so fountain and pod verse andpod friend are the three that
I'm playing with most right now.
And I've spoken with thedevelopers in all of those
and they all love what I haveto say, but they also say.
We are working eitheron a shoestring budget
(37:22):
or we're or no, or avirtual shoestring budget.
We are, we're totallyout of shoestrings.
or it's, we've gota laundry list.
That's a mile long aswe're trying to get to.
So it's a nice tohave just be happy.
We're making what we'redoing right now and I get
it and I am happy with whatthey're doing right now.
I just want to encouragethem to do more.
James (37:39):
Yeah.
And I wonder whetherthere is something there.
Maybe taking, an open sourceapp and getting a little bit
of resource into it to actuallymake the podcast as podcast app.
Maybe that's a planfor the future.
Although, maybe that's about it.
Who
Evo (37:52):
knows what they could do rather than trying to play
the let's do everything game.
I think another great anglewould be let's focus on
a particular underserved.
Portion of thelistening audience.
who's not getting what theyneed out of the current
podcast, listening apps.
I think it's not a crazy ideato think someone will come
along and build a podcastlistening app that doesn't
have 4 million podcasts init, but is only designed
(38:16):
to, for example, listen to.
Sports-related podcasts, butmaybe there's a special way.
Sports podcasts, listeners wantto consume their content grouped
by teams or sporting types orvarious weird things like that.
W I think we're to thesize now where rather than
trying to get everyone,everybody together, maybe
we just make hyper-focused.
(38:37):
These are the thingsthat this does, and if
you really want the bestpossible experience in this.
What we've built.
We've got an app that does just
James (38:45):
that podcast.
Pontifications is in allgood podcasting apps and
quite a few bad ones, too.
Evo.
Thank you so much for your time.
Evo (38:52):
Thank you very much for your time, James.
And don't forgetthat, that boost
Sam (38:55):
button . I have to say those for a wishlist,
is what he's asking.
Very useful.
what, the most recenttranscripts individual cues,
I mean that, they're allthings that, that we want.
And it, what it got me thinkingabout is, again, with all
the other features that we'vejust discussed as well, with
captivate, pushing to podchaser with entail, doing
(39:18):
discovery is that we're in a.
I want to call it a podcastwars because before I explain
that somebody this week,and I know we're coming to
boost the Graham quarter, buthe, whoever you are, mark,
please reveal your surname.
Come hoping you'renot mark Cuban.
You said somethingthat absolutely the
penny dropped for me.
(39:39):
You described applepodcasts as the new internet
Explorer of podcast players.
And it, the minuteyou said that I do.
Yep.
That is exactly what they are.
I was with Netscapeduring the podcast wars.
I was the European productmanager for communicator.
What we were fighting, whatwere for new standards?
We were fighting fornew versions of HTML.
(40:00):
We were fighting to pushthe browser forward and
Microsoft with IAE wherethe dominant incumbent, who
just drag their knucklesdidn't do anything, came up
with predatory standards.
Do you remember active ex
James (40:13):
James?
Oh yes.
Active
Sam (40:15):
ex.
Yeah.
And they had so many, anyways that they try to kill
the industry or turn it intoan internal wall garden.
Apple, I'm sorry.
You are the newinternet Explorer.
And I think.
I think that's the titlethey need to take in.
I try to make friendswith apple, but they never
(40:35):
get to sponsor as Jamesis to the way he both,
James (40:37):
they're never going to sponsor anything.
that's not how it work.
Sam (40:40):
Yeah, exactly.
But I think what the funniestthing for me is somebody
who was really heavilyinvolved in that timeframe.
Microsoft now use chromium asthe basis for their browser.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They've gone full circle.
Yeah.
And I hope that maybe apple,one day we'll actually start
(41:00):
to look at the podcast indextutor, own namespace and
start to say, yeah, actually.
The industry'sworking around that.
And maybe we need to adopt it.
I dunno where Spotify fitsin all this, by the way.
Cause I can't come up with agood analogy to what browser
they would have been, butthey're certainly not Netscape
James (41:17):
that's for certain yeah.
Cello.
Yes.
I think there you go.
that's showing my age.
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think that the podcast names.
Is something that peopleshould be particularly apple
and Google should be lookinginto very seriously, because
I think there's a bunch ofvery useful things for Apple's
(41:41):
current issues with notupdating shows properly and
all of that kind of stuff.
There's a bunch of usefultools that can be built in
to help all of that work.
So I'm surprised thatthey haven't been doing,
more looking into that.
Sam (41:55):
Going back to evoke terror.
So what he's saying is thatlots of smaller apps are
beginning to put tools likechapters, and as we've seen,
credits and people support.
Is there going to be one ofthose that steps forward you
think, is there a potentialwinner out of that's coming
out or is it too earlyto see as an alternative
James (42:15):
client?
Oh, I think it's very difficultto see and I, my hope and
my hope has always beenthat PocketCasts or someone
similar overcast, maybe,although that won't happen.
Grabs the opportunitiesgiven to them by the new
podcast, namespace withboth hands and goes away and
makes the best podcast appthat deals with all of the
(42:39):
new podcast namespace tags.
To me, that would be thedifferentiator between pocket
casts and the incumbent.
The Google, theSpotify and the apple.
And I think that would bethe absolute right choice
for Russell and for, Phil,I think it is to end up
doing, obviously I'm not theproduct manager and by all
(43:02):
accounts, it's not been a fun18 months at the pocket costs.
folks, I'm sure that they'vegot a bunch of tech debt
that they need to fix first.
but that would be my ideal.
Now, the other
Sam (43:13):
thing that came out of, listening to.
Was, he was just somethingthat he was saying
all the way through.
And you said something as wellabout boost grams as well.
You Chub's client actuallyis really where I think
a lot of podcast clientsmight want to have a look
at the timestamp things now,just beginning to come in.
So if you take bussprout, cause we.
(43:34):
We use that a lot.
So fundamentally that timestampthing, which has been in YouTube
forever and a day, the sharingcapability, but they've got
comments, but the one that it'smost interesting in YouTube,
if you follow any of the, Iknow football ones that I do,
you've got this thing calledsuper follows and which I think
are really interesting andvery similar to boost to grams.
(43:57):
But they're done moreoften with live streams
where you can actuallypay $5, $10 or whatever,
and it is cash amounts.
but then the host will seethat and it'll highlight up in
the comments very differently.
And then they canread that comment out.
They ignore the rest ofthe comments by the way.
So the stream could be flyingthrough and they'll only
look at the super follows.
(44:18):
I wonder where the, in a realworld environment where you
let's say we did this podcastlive via a client where the
Brewster grams would be that as
James (44:29):
well.
Yeah.
I don't think there's anythingto stop booster grams.
the way that the whole thinghas been built, there's
nothing necessarily to stopthem from using fierce,
from using real currency.
but.
I'm also very aware thatactually the benefit of using
the cryptocurrency stuffis that it means that it's
completely de-centralizedand no one is in charge.
(44:49):
And we've just seen all ofthat kerfuffle with only fans
that is kerfuffle, which hasbeen driven by MasterCard who
have turned around and said,we don't want people paying
for smart, with MasterCard.
Thank you very much.
Could you please stop the smart.
I think, that,that's the concern.
(45:10):
I think I put quite apart fromthe individual cost of, taking
a credit card payment, that'sthe main concern that many
people in podcasting shouldhave of, just making sure
that this is a open thing,but I do wonder sometimes.
I've started talking with afew people about, booster grams
being internet tokens, andyou buy internet tokens and
(45:34):
you give them to other people.
And that's really what a sat is.
Yes.
You can turn it into cash.
Yes.
It's actually a Bitcoin.
Yes, it's cryptocurrency.
But at the end of the day,it's an internet token.
It's the same as afairground token.
When you go into the, whenyou go to the fair or,
any of that sort of thing.
And I think if we think aboutit in that way, it becomes
far less scary and some peoplemay choose to cash them in.
(45:56):
Some people may justchoose to hold them.
And that's fine too.
Yeah.
It's a
Sam (45:59):
micro payment system.
We've wanted for awhile on the internet.
In fact, yeah.
I remember listeningto Marc Andreessen.
Talk about the one thing hewished he did creative when he
first created Netscape browserwas a micropayment system.
You said that was the onething they wished they'd done.
And I know Facebook triedrecently and failed abysmally
with their micropaymentsystems, cause no one
(46:20):
trusts mark Zuckerberg.
and that's why I thinka lot of that failed.
But it's the, I think theproblem is it simple enough?
You've implemented it.
How easy is it to
James (46:29):
implement hideously complicated at the moment,
but it is much easier nowthan it was three months ago.
And that's the point?
I think it's very quicklybeginning to be easier.
this isn't iPod X, aswe were talking about
with Eva, it's not.
I was, trying to tell somebodythe other day about, it
(46:51):
was listening from Norwayand he wants to help this
show and her downloadedfountain and found the whole
thing really complicated.
And I said, you'reprobably not young enough.
To have been playing around withyour copy of windows 3.1 and
try to configure your wind sock.
but you'll remember configuringwind sock and everything else
(47:13):
so that you could actuallyget onto the internet, and
all these kinds of weirdand wonderful stuff and how
complicated all of that was.
And now it's super easy andit's built into everything.
I think that's basicallywhere we are at the moment.
And I think.
Anything that makeslife easier and simpler.
We'll come and we'llcome very quickly.
And certainly it's far easier.
(47:33):
Now then, as I say, than itwas three months or so ago
to set up value for valueand to start accepting Sam.
So
Sam (47:42):
talking of, value for value.
Have we had any
James (47:45):
boosts this week?
yes, let's play.
Adam's very exciting.
Very top 40 boosterGraham corner jingle.
Now it's
Evo (47:52):
time for the
James (47:53):
boost
Sam (47:54):
to Graham corner.
James (47:56):
It's too much.
And we've got a number ofdifferent messages here.
Mary Oscar fromfountain 769 SATs.
It says here, although thatmight not be what Mary Oscar
thought he was paying, becauseof the way that these things
work, I should just point out.
But anyway, Mary says, orOscar says another great
episode looking forward tocoming on in a few weeks time.
(48:16):
Oh yes.
Oscar's coming onin a few weeks time.
Isn't it?
A fountain.
So that should be good.
He is excellent.
Dave Jackson, thepodcast has podcaster.
he, very kindly sent us a 500SATs or so with a fountain.
He says, keep up the great work.
Thank you.
Dave.
Dave has put together a brandnew podcast called leading the
bleeding, which is essentiallyDave, trying to understand
(48:38):
how all of this stuff works.
And, working to enable hispodcasts as value for value.
He's going to turn thatwhole experience into a
podcast, which is really good.
And, it should be wellworth having a listen to,
that is available now inall good podcast apps.
And in Spotify,
Sam (48:55):
Nick says he loves pod land.
Thank you, Nick.
Add he sent us 990 stats.
I knew he was using fountain.
I think that may be
James (49:02):
fountains.
Yeah.
Ah, maybe who
Sam (49:05):
knows.
and Dave said, thanksfor the kind words SAB.
You're the host ofthe football podcast.
You can't let an Australianguy with a raspberry PI school,
your base styles, yellow card.
Thank you, Dave.
Thank you so much.
He said just 20,903 stats.
And again, using fountain.
Yeah.
James (49:23):
20,000 SaaS is a lot as well.
Dave, thank youvery much for that.
That's a very kind that's that?
That is probably.
Another beer thatI can school Mr.
Sethi on when I can finallyget over to the UK in 2025.
Assuming of course that youactually have any pubs left or
indeed any food available inyour country, which appears to
be falling apart as we speak.
(49:45):
Yeah.
Sam (49:45):
Anyway.
Yeah, we might end upjust having to grow what
we can find in fields.
So yes, that's it.
James (49:52):
it's quite a thing.
And Adam.
I it has, I think, sentyou a message here.
4,900 sites through Curio Casta.
Thank you, Adam.
What does Adam said here?
Sam (50:02):
Thank you for considering the podcast
index with your academy fees.
Yes, I would.
I'd rather pay you Adam,that I would pay the academy.
James (50:11):
I'm sorry.
I think he's not looking for apromise if I'd rather pay you.
I think he's lookingfor some money.
Maybe we might.
Okay.
Maybe we might send them over.
Sam (50:21):
So yeah, they're great.
You know what they aregreat because it does
what you just said, James.
It just allows us to know thatpeople are listening and what
they think of what we say.
James (50:30):
Indeed.
No, I think it's areally good thing.
And I think the easier thatwe can make it, the more
satisfactory it will be foranybody that is doing a podcast.
Sam (50:39):
Yeah.
And I fully agreewith your comment.
I think it will be, hidden intoapps and made very simple way.
You take fearcurrency converted to.
Token SATs.
And then you can just usethem where you want your data.
It'll be a good model.
Lastly, Buzzsproutgoing back to them.
boss sprout has nowincluded the podcast guru
ID into the RSS feeds whata Gilead's again, just
James (51:02):
remind me, ah, this is a, it's a standard way
of an ID for your podcast.
It stays with your podcast.
Whatever you use.
So if you shift from, andthey've seen to, and then maybe
you shift to captivate and thensprout, obviously, cause bus
parrots are brilliant and thenyou're good will never change.
And that means that you canlink to your podcast in a
(51:23):
standard way, which meansthat no one is in charge
of that ID at the moment.
We're all using appleID numbers and those are
not particularly helpful.
it's a great thing to see.
Buzzsprout.
Are now doing Google ads,fully in their system.
And I look forward tomore podcasts companies
doing that too.
I wonder if apple
Sam (51:42):
Explorer will ever change now, apple
James (51:45):
Explorer.
Ouch.
Sam (51:48):
Oh, I sell you.
Mark has given me so much hopewith his little statement.
Aye.
Aye.
On the basis that Ideleted by apple podcast,
player, client, wow.
It's gone.
Gosh.
James (52:00):
Yeah, that's a thing I'm going to use
Sam (52:01):
it until next week when I have to.
Cause there's a feature,I'll leave test it, but
then that'll be that now,lastly, and it feels like
we are beating them up, butapple podcast download bug.
it, again, it seems tobe raising its head.
Is there anything else that'sbeen said about, I think Triton
digital had some data about it.
Triton,
James (52:20):
it's been basically saying with all of the
podcasts rankers that theyproduce, is there's been
a significant drop in theamount of podcasts downloads
if you compare may to July.
so in the middle of June waswhere, people were transitioning
over to the new apple podcasts.
And if you compare may toJuly, it's down on average by,
somewhere in the region of.
(52:41):
A percent or so, which, backsup the random number that
I came up with earlier on.
So yeah, you can see that'shappening, but you can also
see pod tracker releasing,weekly figures, which I don't
typically report on becauseotherwise that's the only thing
that I would be doing, butthey are showing that those
are beginning to increase it.
As the fix has, has rolled out.
(53:02):
good on apple for fixingthat and for rolling it out.
I'm sure, there are lots ofthings that we can criticize
them for, but I think, theydid act, relatively fast once
they knew that there was a.
Okay.
A few things coming up,which might be useful to know
about the Australian podcastawards is back for 2021.
I'm a director of thecompany this year.
It features a totalof 31 award entries.
(53:25):
You should take part it'sreally robustly, judged.
Proud of it.
well-worth going to, take apeek just to a Google search
for Australian podcast awards.
There's also the NewZealand podcast awards.
If you're a Kiwi and you saythe word dairy a lot, the
deadline for nominations forthat is September the first.
So get a move on and the IABhas announced the final agenda
(53:47):
for the IEB podcast upfront.
Which is happening in New York,actually in New York, between
September the ninth and 10th.
it's something that allowsmedia buyers to preview new
shows, coming from podcastpublishers and new ad tech tools
to, don't see if you can gobecause it's invite only, but
it's a good thing to take partin if you have been invited.
(54:07):
And finally there is theinternational women's
podcast awards, whichsure has been announced as
the headline partner of athat's already been judged.
I understand theceremony is in line.
On September the 23rd.
Excellent.
Sam (54:20):
I always thought the only way to tell the difference
between Kiwis and Aussies was toask them to say fish and chips,
James (54:25):
fashion shops.
yes, there is that.
Or, yes, they call acorner, shop a dairy,
which is very strange.
And, yes, there a strange,one of the clubhouse rooms
that I occasionally jump intois basically run by Kiwis.
And it's great fun to jump inthere and hear all of these,
Americans, gassed at thefact that they're talking to
(54:46):
somebody from New Zealand.
So it's very interesting.
It's always a good thing.
Sam (54:51):
Did you say clubhouse?
Sorry, this is 19.
I did say club's sorry.
Are we back inJanuary 20, 21 again?
James (54:58):
No, it's still going, I believe.
so yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Sam (55:02):
Finally then James.
So what else has happened foryou in Portland this week?
James (55:05):
so I have spent much of the week talking to lawyers
about a news story that,we're not mentioning today.
so that's good.
It's been a bit of a fraughtweek for, reasons, best knots.
gone into, Sam, what ishappening for you in Portland
over the next few weeks?
Sam (55:19):
my wig sounds a lot quieter than yours.
That's for certain, I'minterviewing Gary Lineker the,
famous football on TV pundits.
Crisp salesman.
Yes, indeed.
So that's this week, I justinterviewed Joe Royal from,
any Everton fans out therewould know who he was.
James (55:35):
Family.
Yeah.
Yeah.
very funny.
No,
Sam (55:39):
yes, no.
Unless you read the football,it's not a podcast you want to.
James (55:43):
Yeah.
All the Americans listening haveno concept of what's going on
Sam (55:48):
now.
I'll just say soccer and
James (55:50):
there'll be fine.
And this is for your, thisis for your English premier
league soccer podcast, whichis called the old spice book.
Indeed.
And you'll find that in allgood podcast apps like this one.
And that's it for thisweek, you can come back
to pipeline next time.
Follow us cost app.
Oh, we're at Podlanddot news on the web.
Sam (56:09):
If you have any comments or questions.
And you'd like to talk tothis show as well, tweet us at
James (56:14):
potluck news.
Yes.
And if you would likedaily news, you should get
pod news, the newslettersfree upon news.net.
The podcast is in yourpodcast app, and that's
where you'll find the linksfor all the stories we've
mentioned in this way.
Our
Sam (56:25):
music is from ignite jingles and.
And sponsored a by bussprout and a Riverside FM.
If you enjoyed this episodeor any of the other previous
ones, please tell yourfriend about Portland.
I will see you in Portland
James (56:38):
and also thank you to headliner for giving
us some excellent tools aswell and keep listening.
Welcome to Podland.
The last word inpodcasting news.
Portland is sponsoredby Buzzsprout.
He is by over a hundred thousandpodcasters like us to host,
promote and track your podcast.
And by riverside.fm version2.0 recording podcasts and
video interviews in studioquality from anywhere.
Just got an upgrade.
We're using it now.
It's the 26th of August, 2021.
(00:24):
I'm James crude and theeditor of pod news.net
here in Australia.
Sam (00:27):
Hello, I'm Sam Steffi.
The editor of Sam
Evo (00:30):
Talks Technology and I'm emo Tara.
And later I'll be talking aboutpodcast apps and why they suck
James (00:37):
pod lands a weekly podcast where Sam and
I delve deeper intothe week's podcasting
Sam (00:41):
news.
So James let's get on withthe big stories of that
week here in Portland.
And they're takenfrom a pod news.
How was podcastingdoing for Spotify?
James?
Let's start off with our massive
James (00:53):
question like that.
Yes.
let's start off with amassive question like that.
It turns out the businessinsider got some leaked
data from Septemberof last year, 331.
Million hours of podcasts.
They measure podcasts bythe hour at Spotify in that
month, September 18.7% ofall podcasts time listened
(01:13):
to was made by Spotify.
So 18% seems to say that Spotifyis doing quite well, but Gimlet
accounted for just not 0.4%of all podcasts listening.
I'd given it was boughtfor $230 million and the.
Commentary around that frombusiness insider is, was Gimlet
really a very good investment.
(01:34):
And I kind of wonder,
Sam (01:36):
it doesn't seem like it's getting much value now.
Gimlet, we're a bit peevedthough, because they
started putting out onGimlet reply or a tweet.
What did they say,
James (01:45):
James?
they posted this very strangetweet, basically saying ever
since we were sold to Spotify,we haven't had any control
over the ads and just knowthat we don't endorse the ad,
which is currently running.
And then there was a pauseand then we meant the
ad for the U S Miller.
Okay.
Somebody at reply all is notparticularly happy about their
(02:07):
show being used to recruitnew soldiers and stuff.
as I said on the pod newspodcast, a couple of days ago,
the children are fighting again.
It really does
Sam (02:18):
feel like that.
Nick Hilton, right?
Good posting mediumabout the separation of
creators and advertisers.
And I feels like it's an oldargument, the magazine, and
paperworld used to have thiswhere advertisers want to slam
an advert right next to content.
And it seemed inappropriate.
He said, I expect a relationshipbetween a show and an
advertiser and podcasting thatI don't in any other medium.
(02:40):
So I think whathe's trying to say.
And he might be trying to backa Gimlet, which is look, if
the show's about, I dunno,cooking, is it appropriate
to slam an ad for the U Smilitary right next to it?
It doesn't seem appropriately
James (02:54):
related.
yeah.
And I think also podcastingis very much closer to
the advertisers in termsof, for example, later
when I talked to you.
Yeah.
Evo talks about a feature thathe would really like, am I pop
in which you'll hear later andsay, and Buzzsprout offers that
and Buzzsprout is our sponsor.
And I talk about that for a bit.
That's the sort of thing thatpodcast listeners expect is that
(03:19):
closer relationships, I thinknext, absolutely right there.
You don't expect that closerelationship and India.
It's very much frowned upon.
When you look at the printmedia, everybody talks
about, the relationshipbetween church and state
and all this kind of stuff.
But actually I thinkthat there is something
there around podcastingbeing much more intimate.
(03:39):
if you're playingthe drinking game.
Yes.
Did say intimate, haveanother drink about podcast
advertising and, yeah.
So I think Nick'sabsolutely right there.
Now,
Sam (03:48):
Matt Deegan also has written about what's been going
on with the Spotify figuresand he said, it's interesting
to see hours consumed ratherthan downloads, which is what
you just said, James, as astreamer, it's a metric that's
pretty exclusive to Spotify.
They know what you actuallylistened to rather than just
adding up downloads, which iswhat I've been saying for a long
(04:09):
time that I think downloads.
Oh, dead.
As a metric let's as anindustry, get rid of them,
because I think it's the dirtylittle secret of podcasting,
you'll say to advertisers,yeah, we had 500 downloads or
5,000 or whatever your numbermay be as an advertiser.
You don't know whether youradvert was listened to or not.
(04:29):
Whereas Spotify can actuallytell you how far along
the stream the podcast waslistened to and therefore,
whether your ad was, I think.
The industry ourselvesneeds to move away from the
CPC model to a CPA model.
James (04:45):
I think cost per thousand versus cost per action
is a different conversation.
But I do think certainlythat, Brian Violetta in
sounds profitable, verygood website newsletter
sounds profitable.com.
he was saying that appleactually missed a trick.
Obviously apple had a bug withsome versions of apple podcasts
recently, which essentiallymeant that they weren't
automatically downloading shows.
(05:06):
And he was saying thatapple missed a trick because
actually it will be betterfor the industry if we were
to stop automatic downloads.
Now, I think that apple don'tnecessarily think that's
particularly fair becauseI think that, it's just
somebody else piling ontoapple and apple have not had
a very good couple of monthsand I can quite see apples.
But, I can also, I thinkthe point that, I took out
(05:30):
of Brian's piece was thatauto downloads shouldn't
be the default in anypodcast app these days.
We don't reallyneed it these days.
I'm not saying getrid of downloads.
Altogether.
I'm not saying even getrid of auto downloads.
But what I am saying isfor the vast majority
of people, we don't needautomatic downloads anymore.
(05:51):
It would make for much betterstats, it would make for
much better information foradvertisers and frankly much
better ad targeting as well.
If we didn't haveauto downloads.
And instead when you pressthe play button, that is the
user initiated download, thatgets the podcast for you.
Sam (06:09):
I think.
A bug or a featurewhen it first came out.
And I still think heshould have been a
feature, apple called it a
James (06:15):
bug, but it's a difficult thing because if
you then turn around and yousay, that's 11% of podcasts,
which are auto downloadedand never listened to.
We know that number now, whichwe've never known in the past.
So that's a glimpse into thatdata because of apple podcasts.
But yeah.
Which means that there are asignificantly larger amount of
(06:38):
podcasts, which are out therenow, which are never being
listened to, it's all pricedinto the cost per thousand.
So I don't think it's aproblem for the industry, but
a wouldn't it be interestingif there was a change in the
way that we thought aboutthese things and that actually
also downloads wasn't givento people by default, by some
of these large, apps and yeah.
(07:00):
It's very difficult to getSpotify to automatically
download shows.
it's very difficult to getGoogle podcasts to automatically
download shows in PocketCasts,downloading is something which
you turn on, but in overcastand in apple podcasts, auto
downloads are on by default andmaybe that's the best thing.
Maybe we need
Sam (07:19):
a new metric cost per listen.
That would be aninteresting one.
Wouldn't it?
Now James, you've beengetting out your napkin as
well, going back to Spotify.
James (07:28):
I'm not quite sure what that's supposed to mean, but
yes, I did some math or mathsdepending where you live.
please add the S I got hassledby Harry who listens to this
podcast and Harry said, no,say maths, but anyway, I
did a little bit of, I did alittle bit of calculations.
(07:48):
If you look at the leakedSpotify, You can work out.
So we know that theaverage length of a podcast
is about 37 minutes.
We know how many hours ofpodcasts were played on Spotify.
So therefore we can workout that there were 543
million podcast playsin total on Spotify.
And Spotify is about20% of the industry.
So you can work out there.
(08:09):
If you include 11% of podcastsbeing auto downloaded and
never listened to, youcan probably work out that
there are at least 3 billionpodcasts downloads per month.
And actually that figureis probably too low
because that assumes thateverybody on Spotify.
Never bails out of a showearly or fast forwards it.
(08:30):
So let's assume that twothirds of shows are listened
to right to the end, whichis data that I've seen in a
number of different studies.
So maybe we have 4 billiondownloads per month in
terms of podcasting.
I notice that Libsyn iscurrently quoting 7.9
billion per quarter for theirnetwork and their network is.
(08:51):
not necessarilyparticularly large.
So maybe again, maybeI'm underestimating it,
4 billion downloads amonth is not bad, I think.
Yeah,
Sam (08:59):
no, it's very tasty that number now, the number I
thought that was interestingwas the 37 minutes though.
and it goes back to again,if you've got a streaming
measurement, you could actuallythen put a different price
point on ads, anything before20 minutes, anything in the
20 minutes to 37 minutesand then anything after
James (09:18):
this one.
NPR was trying to do with rad acouple of years ago was to have
a much more robust analyticsplatform that allowed you to
know what ads were listenedto in a particular show.
And therefore to beable to report that
back on a sample basis.
And that could be a planfor, how you pay rod had
(09:40):
perceived issues with privacy.
And that was the reason whythat didn't get anything.
But, maybe there's somethinginteresting, particularly around
what you can do with boostswith, cryptocurrency, because
actually a cryptocurrencypayment for this show is being
made every single minute.
So you could theoretically goand have a look at the amount
(10:02):
of cryptocurrency paymentsand work out some form of
audience numbers from that.
But, I think it's a littlebit too early to be talking
about that quite yet.
Sam (10:12):
Some have pointed out to us that their favorite
Spotify produce podcastshave disappeared from
their usual podcast feeds.
Can you explainthat to me, James
James (10:21):
Spotify has apparently taken a few more shows away
from standard RSS feeds andhave made them exclusive.
I think what I have sincediscovered is some of those
shows are actually they'vekilled the RSS feed altogether.
So if you try searching for.
You still might find thatpodcast as a ghost in one, in
(10:44):
some of the is, but as soon asyou try listening to a show, you
find out that you can't anymore.
Spotify have explained thatthe reason why is that they
get better stats from exclusiveshows because they get the
streaming stats, not thestreaming universe comments
rather than the download stats.
And so therefore they can usethat to make better shows.
(11:04):
I'm not so sure.
Interesting to see them.
Adding a few moreexclusive shows.
One of those is serialkillers, which is one of my
favorite names for a podcast.
Cause it does what it sayson the tin serial killers.
I wonder what that'sa podcast about.
Oh, I know what that is.
A podcast about isabout serial killers.
Yeah.
It passes the Ron seal test it.
Doesn't it just, no onein America will understand
Sam (11:25):
that.
No.
Or anywhere around the worldactually, but there you go.
Subscription Spotfire hasnow turned on subscriptions
to elect all US-based anchorpodcasts, sell subscriptions.
What are they?
Yeah.
James (11:39):
So anyone with an anchor show in the U S can
now put their podcast into,a paid podcast, subscription
service, with Spotify.
And that's all very exciting.
They've added new price tiers.
You can now.
Ask for your listeners, emailaddresses, which they can
share with you if they want to,which is one of the criticisms,
(12:00):
obviously against apple.
The other criticismagainst apple is keeping
30% of the revenue.
Whereas Spotify is keepingnothing of the revenue for
the first two years and then5% of the revenue after that.
And I think that interestinglycoincides with a piece in the
verge where a number of podcastscompanies are criticizing apple
podcasts for their subscriptionproducts so far, Spotify is
(12:22):
going to let everybody else.
So even you, Mr.
Sathi sell subscriptionson Spotify.
If you're an anchor podcaster,probably in September, so
we'll be able to buy shows inSeptember as foreign types.
And it basically said, prettywell soon after that, we'll
(12:43):
be able to sell them as well.
So good news for people who wishto sell their particular show.
Sam (12:50):
Now do you have to pay the, anything to become a
creator of subscriptions like
James (12:56):
you do with apple, you don't at all,
from what I understand.
So it's just as simple as,getting your stuff in there,
which might be interesting.
I think it'll be interestingto see what Spotify does here.
Interesting.
Also to see what Spotifydoes, if I was to.
Create an anchor podcast,put one show in there, sell
(13:16):
a bunch of subscriptions andthen not do any other shows.
I'm not quite surewhat recompense
Spotify has, for that.
And I'm not quite sure what thatmeans for people that might get
a little bit upset about that.
I think it's going to bereally interesting to watch.
It's a very different modelthan the apple model of paying,
whatever it was, 20 bucks or 30bucks to get into this service.
(13:39):
And then apple actually humanlymoderates, you and checks
that you're a good person.
my suspicion is thatSpotify will work in a
slightly different way.
So it'll beinteresting to watch.
I did read somewhere todayand I'm not quite sure
where the figure came from.
That only 100 anchor showsso far have made themselves
available for paid subscription,because it has been available
(14:03):
in beta for a couple of months.
I'm not quite sure of theveracity of that number,
but, again, I think that'san interesting number to see.
And for the record.
Over a thousand paid forpodcasts with apple podcasts
and over a thousand podcastssurrounding value for value
with the podcast index.
so that's where we areand by the way, nearly 4
(14:23):
million podcasts out there.
So it's still avery small thing.
Sam (14:26):
Okay.
Last bit of, Spotfire newsbefore we move on, Spotify
has expanded its musicand talk shows to 15 more
countries, including Germany.
The Philippines and Brazil,the service also has a new
look, which is very nice.
And there are a few exampleswhich mix music and talk.
You can look at, Brad Hillstake cover, and you can
(14:48):
look at our Tom Webster'sdeep six, for example.
it's still a service thoughthat I find is one Dato.
It needs to move on.
If it wants toactually do what radio.
Presenters though.
Yeah.
And allowing you to mix
James (15:02):
over the music.
Yeah, I agree.
And I think that part ofthat is due to the music
licenses that Spotify have.
Because if you allow somebodyto talk over the music, then
you're making a derivativeproducts, which, Spotify don't
necessarily have the rightsfor both Brad Hills take cover,
which is a very good show.
All about cover versionsand Tom Webster's deep sex.
which is a very good showwith six songs, which are
(15:24):
somehow related to each other.
Both of those are pod faded.
If you like both of those Tomand Brad have given up on.
So what does that tell you?
partially it might tellyou that they were just.
Kicking the tires and tryingit out, but also partially
that may tell you that, itwasn't necessarily something
that they were getting anyfeedback from any data from and
(15:46):
didn't feel it was worthwhile.
Continuing.
I can't really talk for eitherTom off or for Brad, but you
get that feeling that mightbe happening, interesting
to see it being rolled out.
There's, a nice, moreswish UI, which people
might have fun with.
And, but I would agree.
Yeah.
Think it's not quitethere yet as a product
Sam (16:04):
now swiftly on this week's James and whether
you meant to or not, you'vebeen writing a lot and
I've called it discovery.
Now we've got seven differentforms of new discovery that
we're going to discuss nowin the next three hours.
And then next round I pullup at coffee and settle
James (16:24):
back.
What's
Sam (16:24):
number one, he says moving swiftly.
number one, just fuck that.
Feel.
Matt Deegan, a friend of thechair again, he's been talking
about, there's too much materialaround in terms of you probably
haven't got enough room toreally give Spotify promo value.
Yeah.
To your acquisitions.
Basically, he's saying that theissue with gambler and podcasts
(16:46):
and ringer and all the othershows that have been created
Spotify, isn't allowing thatdiscovery of those new shows.
Maybe that's the reasonwhy Gimlet has only got
0.4% in the Spotify stats.
So the question is, shouldSpotify create a new
separate podcast clientand make discovery easily?
(17:06):
Maybe we've talked aboutthis before, briefly as well.
Haven't we, James, they
James (17:10):
have made us per radio client for their
algorithmic jukeboxes, whichthey trialed in Australia.
We got somethingfirst for a change.
so that was nice.
I think the problem with Gimletisn't promo, I think the problem
with Gimlet is that Gimlet staffappeals to public radio lists.
Slightly younger publicradio listeners who
are not using Spotify.
(17:31):
And I think that,that's the main issue.
It's the wrong audiencefor the wrong product.
And I think either that meansthat Gimlet needs to get younger
in its outlook and producemore of the sorts of products
like, call her daddy and Joe.
Or it means that Gimletwas just the wrong purchase
because it's just not awell aligned audience.
(17:53):
I don't actually think it'sa promo issue at all here,
but I would also agreethat it is really hard.
If you've got 300 shows,it's really hard to
promote all 300 at once.
It's like a radio station youend up promoting the breakfast.
Because that's the thingthat you want to promote.
You've got your heroesthat you want to promote.
(18:13):
Nobody is promoting whothe evening show is.
He says as an evening show,not for a year, nobody ever
promotes the evening show.
They only promote the breakfastshow because that's where you
get the best bang for your buck.
And maybe that's what Spotifyhas an issue with right now.
Sam (18:30):
ITunes probably went through this when they
were trying to have music.
And then they weretrying to have films.
They were trying to haveother content and they then
tried to create one client.
Then they separated them out.
I suspect Spotify isgoing through that same
tension internally.
Do they try and createthe Uber client one single
app or do they Spotify?
(18:50):
Break it out intotwo or three apps
James (18:52):
and they're chucking audio books in as well.
Of course, they've had audiobooks in Germany for a while
and they're moving that outto other platforms as well.
How's that going to fitinto the Spotify UI?
yeah, I agree.
I think it's going to be harderand harder for Spotify to
promote this kind of stuff.
Sam (19:07):
Okay.
Now a discovery too.
And this one.
Pod chasers refresh theircreator profiles, and now
you can follow creatorsacross different shows.
and they've also changedthe roles to credit.
What do you think of that
James (19:23):
one, James?
Yeah.
So they've stopped callingeverybody a creator and
they've started havinga list of credits, which
I think is a good idea.
So if you have look at thelisting, for example, for pod
land at the pod news websites,then you'll find it now says
credits and not creators.
Cause I was usingtheir language.
It's a data that has comefrom the podcast taxonomy
(19:45):
as well, which is helpfulbecause it means that we all
know now what an editor is,what a podcast host is, what
an executive producer isand all that kind of stuff.
Sam (19:55):
Now, jumping ahead slightly, one of the
companies captivate.
Has done somethingvery interesting for
discovery as well.
It now sends the podcastcredits automatically to pod
James (20:06):
chaser.
Yes.
So I'm an advisor to captivate.
I need to say that upfront, ifyou are doing a podcast within
captivate and you're actually.
Adding people to yourauthorization list, so you
can have the host to usingcaptivate and the editor using
captivate and everything else.
It uses that as credits, whichit then automatically sends
(20:28):
off to pod chaser as well.
They're using thepodcast taxonomy too.
again, a great planbecause it allows.
Anybody who is using a podcasthost and captivate in this
particular case to get thosecredits, in, as a standard
fashion, into a pod chaser to,what captivate has also done.
And I just mentioned itthere around podcast networks
(20:49):
is that they've added.
Podcast networksavailable to all users.
now, so if you want to runyour own podcast network and
you want full visibility ofhow everybody's doing, and
you want team management andyou want a network website
and everything else, thencaptivate is the place to be.
Because it's ma it's givingthat available to everybody.
if you're on the bottom tierat captivate, I think you
(21:11):
can have a podcast networkof three or maybe four
shows and that goes up asyour, tier goes up as well.
I think it's a goodthing, although I would
say that would not,
Sam (21:21):
I've also done one other thing, which is they've
introduced cross-promotional
James (21:25):
feed drops.
Oh yes.
Which mark is veryproud of that.
and that's very clever becauseit's enabling you to, put a
drop throughout your entirenetwork of a new show that
perhaps you're launchingand that sort of thing.
you've probably heardthat through Wondery and
other large companies.
Now you can do thatwith captivate as well.
(21:45):
And I know that they are workingon analytics around that too.
So you can actually see howwell that is going for you.
So there's some reallyinteresting stuff going on
there, and I'm a, it's acompany which I'm proud to
occasionally take part inand advisor meetings for.
And it's, it is a veryoccasionally no, but you
can really see that's acompany which understands
(22:08):
what podcast is want.
That
Sam (22:10):
was another form of discovery.
And I think as we'll hearfrom me, Terra shortly,
one of the things is he'slooking for all the apps to
start to add more features.
One of the features I'd love iswhat captivates done is for all
the other podcasts companies topush their credits up into pod
chaser, just making it a simplerway that we can all be, then
(22:31):
be discovered across multipleother podcasts that we do.
That'd
James (22:35):
be nice.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
What I would like to see isthat the podcast person tag,
which is how you put creditsinto the RSS feed, I would like
to see that being implementedby these podcast hosts as well.
because I'm sure thatpod chaser a lovely.
But, one com one company,one point of failure
(22:55):
is a concern to me.
So if there's a way of pullingthat credit's information
out of the RSS feed as well,then I think that's probably
where we should be going.
And again, that's podcasttaxonomy compatible, and so
it's well worth having a look.
Sam (23:11):
Okay.
Another discovery thatyou wrote about or is
entail is also added away.
To follow people, as well asfilms and TV shows discuss
within a podcast it's driven bytheir proprietary AI technology.
So Hannah Blakewrote about this.
She said, we've releasedanother feature.
That's transformingpodcast discovery.
You can follow people,films and TVs, as I just
(23:33):
said, within the podcast.
And then you'll benotified whenever they
feature in new episodes.
So again, nice.
If you can list people or thatyou want to know more about
and you discover what else.
James (23:45):
The difference here is the entail is using its own
AI technology, which of coursemeans that you can then follow
any mention of that personor that thing in any podcast,
which is listed in entail.
So it doesn't have to relyon an individual human being
to put that information in.
(24:05):
And that's particularly usefulfor, obviously films and
TV shows, but also frankly,for brands who would really
like to know what people aresaying about them on podcast.
Sam (24:15):
Now, continuing the theme of discovery, which I
am, Buzzsprout our sponsorsand our good friends.
they have basicallytaken on board.
I think we discussedthis many months ago.
Actually.
You mentioned it being able toput a specific timestamp in a
podcast episode and share it.
That's
James (24:34):
great, isn't it?
Yeah.
I think that'sreally good album.
Brooke gave a demonstrationof this on the bus sprout
blog, which you shouldall go and have a look at.
And he chose this very podcast,which was quite a thing.
So thank you album.
That's very kind of you andyes, what they've done with
it is that they've usedthe standard T equals at
the end of the URL, whichYouTube uses Spotify use it.
(24:56):
Okay.
Casts and pod friend also uses.
And that also works onovercast, even though overcast
has a preferred way thatthey want you to do it.
Google podcasts ofcourse works differently.
And of course, apple podcasts.
Doesn't let you do that at all.
as is usually the way, but,being able to share a specific
timestamp and being able tosay, go and listen to that.
(25:18):
From here is areally helpful thing.
And I'm sure that willbe a useful plan for the
future to actually sharestuff on social media.
Sam, should we talk,goods and tech?
Sam (25:28):
No, I think we should talk
James (25:29):
Evo.
Terra let's talk Evo Terra.
You're absolutely correct.
Evo wrote a really goodblog post the other
day and also a podcast.
He has a great podcast.
Podcast pontifications and itwas all about what he wants
to see from a podcast app.
So I caught up with Evoand firstly, I asked him
(25:50):
who Evo Terra is and whathis podcast pontifications
Evo (25:54):
Evo.
Terra is a guy who has beenpodcasting for a very long time.
Since the beginning oftime, actually since 2004.
Since 2016, I focusedmy attention on making a
podcast for others wherebusinesses specific,
basically my mission in life.
Now, here we are in 2021,recording this as you know
is to make podcasting better.
(26:15):
And that's where the wholeimpetus behind podcast.
Pontifications a dailyshort form podcast
where I talk about ways.
Working podcasters can make
James (26:23):
podcasting better.
That's great.
It gives you something tothink about when working on
a podcast and you spoke aboutpodcast apps the other day, you
reckon that there's a problemwith some of the big apps.
Evo (26:33):
I reckon there's a problem with every app.
I haven't been happy withpodcast apps for a very.
Long time.
And I think it's finallytime that we collectively
do something about it andregime change begins with me.
So I'm on a mission totry and find, or at least
make podcast apps better
James (26:54):
as well.
I miss the simple daysof iPod personally,
Evo (26:58):
I Potter X.
Yeah.
Race like Kinski and a few
James (27:01):
others.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I Potter X.
I apologize.
Yes.
I forgot the expert.
You're recommending that peoplego and try some new apps.
So why are you saying that?
Evo (27:12):
Look, the choices from podcast apps have been
stagnant for a long time.
And we have the big onesthat people tend to use.
Like most people like to usefor their iPhones, at least
the apple podcast app, becausethere's default it's, what's on
your phone for the last threeyears, Spotify has been doing
everything they can to get us tomigrate to the Spotify system.
And now we have Amazon outthere and then we have a slew
(27:35):
of podcast apps that have beenaround since the beginning.
not necessarily thebeginning, but have become
staples podcast ads.
Overcast and a slew of others.
And they all do the basicjob of giving you access to
podcasts roughly the same.
But then they stoppeddoing that and they each
(27:55):
have their own differentthings that they do well.
And some of them do betterthan others, but there are
some missing pieces I think,in, in what these apps should
be doing for podcasters.
And it's when I foundJames is really hard.
To get podcast appdevelopers to actually.
Use their app and get intoit and really understand
(28:17):
how it is that podcastersand podcasts listeners
want to consume content.
James (28:22):
That's interesting.
you say you've got a listof must haves for podcasts,
listening apps that none ofthem are doing right now.
None of them
Evo (28:29):
wow.
Doing all four of them.
So I have things that Iwant podcast apps to do,
and some of them do someof them, but none of them.
All of them, shall I run throughmy list of four to why not?
number one, I want to be ableto create show level cues or
(28:50):
lists or groupings or stations,whatever you want to call them.
Now, the reality is a lot ofthe podcast apps out there
do that, but when looking atthe new podcasts, The ones
that are being pimped outby the podcasting 2.0 folks
that are enabling value forvalue and lots of other fun
things, you'd be amazed.
How many of them don'tallow that to happen?
(29:12):
They'll let you queue upindividual episodes, but they
will not let you break downthe podcast you subscribed to
and group them into individualqueues so that if you're
in the mood to listen tolong form audio dramas, you
don't have to be interruptedby somebody every day.
Putting out around threeminutes worth of really
cool podcast tech.
for example.
James (29:33):
So that's number one.
Yeah.
Evo (29:35):
Number two.
Let's talk about those cues.
I would like for one veryspecific cue to be developed
and that very specific cueis I'm calling most recent.
If you will.
And here's why I want that.
James, you and Iproduced daily podcasts.
The number of daily podcastsout there has skyrocketed
(29:55):
in the last few years.
Now, I don't know about you,but if I go on vacation for
a few days and I don't pickup my daily newspaper and I'm
gone for a week, I don't goback and read the episodes.
Starting from the day Iwas gone and get caught.
There's no point in doing that.
It's news it's information.
That's no longer relevant to me.
So I want to most recent, onlyqueue that has just that I
(30:19):
get to decide which podcastswhich shows go into that queue.
And then the only thingthat shows up in there is
the most recent episode ofall of those, rather than
having 16 episodes of.
For example, a daily podcastnews story queued up for
me when I get back from it.
And I
James (30:37):
hear some people do binge on pod news.
How can you possibly do that?
Then this drive,you mad I'm with
Evo (30:44):
you as well.
the nice thing is I just wantthat to be a cue they're there.
All the episodes arestill available, right?
it's not like we'reremoving them and we can't
access them any longer.
I just want this one simplelittle cue to say here's
where you can get caughtup on the most recent.
That you specificallyadded to this queue?
That will be great.
James (31:02):
So that's Evo second commandment.
What's your third.
Evo (31:05):
I want podcast apps to respect RSS feeds that are
serial IIS podcasts thatare designed to be listened
to from the beginning,not the most recent.
you didn't read Michelle Obama'slast book from the last chapter.
You didn't start on that lastchapter and you certainly
didn't watch the 10thepisode of Ted lasso before
(31:27):
you watched the episodesone through nine, right?
It makes no senseto do it that way.
Every reasonable personaccessing a serialized
podcast wants to listen tothe first episode first.
So why not podcast appspresent that to people?
I did a little research onthis, James right now, there
are about 42 thousands.
Podcasts that are tagged ascereal and in most podcasts
(31:52):
listening apps and in almostall of the, if you will, not
the big ones and all of the newpodcast apps, none of them are
flipping the feeds and showingit from the first one first,
weirdly enough, apple, Spotify,and Amazon actually do this.
It's just hard tofind the settings,
James (32:09):
Come on with number four,
Evo (32:10):
I have beat this horse for a long time and I'm going
to keep on beating it as well.
Thanks to the amazing work ofthe people at podcast index.
We now have a transcripttag which goes in our feeds.
Wouldn't it be great.
If that transcript, which isSRT and timestamp to nicely put
right there on the player, onthe phone or on the web app,
(32:31):
the actual transcript, as thewords are being spoken, all of
the info is there timestamps,text, everything, just display
it the same way it works onYouTube, close captions, or even
those are no television shows.
We are ready inour podcast apps.
So that's it just those fourthings and I'll switch to your
(32:52):
app and I'll evangelize it to
James (32:53):
the end of time.
And this is one of the thingsthat I keep on talking to
the folks at Google podcastsabout they already have the
technology to add, not justtake the podcast transcripts,
tag from somebody's podcast,but also add transcripts.
Everyone's podcast, it'sbuilt into Android phones and
I'm there going, why don'tyou build this into your
(33:14):
app specifically so that youcan go out and say, it's the
only app with transcripts forevery single show out there.
And they they look atme and they go, yep.
It's really
Evo (33:25):
frustrating.
It's almost like you needto say Google podcasts.
There's this otherapp called YouTube.
Maybe you've heard of it.
It actually will do that.
That very same thing.
I'm talking about.
YouTube can with a clickof a button automatically
and transcripts toevery single video.
So I think that alphabet, theparent company has a technology.
Can you share
James (33:45):
that seems okay.
To me that I get frustrated atwith podcast apps is I look at
some of the individual apps.
Yeah.
There's a lot of work put intosome of the UI, but the actual
player has no work put into it.
And one of the things thatI like about PocketCasts and
frankly like about Googlepodcasts is the smart speed.
(34:09):
So it gets rid of thegaps and stuff like that.
It's not called Smartspeedcause that's an overcast
registered trademark.
yup.
And what a pocket cast alsohas is something that it
doesn't call voice boost.
Cause that's anotherone of Marco's.
but it's something that makeseverything a little bit louder.
There are some shows out there,not this one, I hope, but there
are some shows out there whereyou're interviewing somebody
(34:29):
or somebody at the other endof a phone line somewhere.
And the other person is really.
And the interviewer isreally loud and it's really
hard to listen to it.
It surprises me that thingslike Smartspeed that voice
boost or whatever, the genericterms for both of those things.
Haven't been productizedinto a bunch of, Android or
(34:50):
iOS, player, SDKs quite yet.
I'm
Evo (34:53):
with you on both of those things, I think
some responsibility lieson the host themselves.
Who've Evers assemblingthis show produced show.
But I also think, especiallyfor the idea of, let's just
call it, normalizing the volumeand getting everything to
a nice 16 minus 16 lumps orwhatever standard we're using.
I like minus 16 laps.
And I think a lot ofthat could be happening
(35:13):
on the hosting side.
Yes.
If in fact we wereuploading wave files, which.
Podcast hostingcompanies aren't 19.
And come to mind.
We'll allow you to upload awave file and we'll whoosh.
I know for a fact automaticallynormalize the tracks.
If you click a little box todo that and get it all nice and
sunny, it'll send out MP3 files.
And then I know otheralternate enclosures as well
(35:35):
for much smaller things.
So a lot of that canbe happening during the
time of creation, butI am totally with you.
I use overcast more thananything else for that
voice boost feature, becausewhen I'm driving in my car,
There is road noise androad noise, significantly
interferes with podcasters.
Who've decided to let somedynamic range creativity
(35:57):
run free on their episodes.
And which basically means Ican't hear the dialogue, which
I think is important to doso I do love that feature.
And yes.
For must haves.
I think there are sometable stakes that everyone
should do just becauseit's the right thing to do.
Getting voices normalized,allowing people to adjust
the speeds back and forth.
Yes.
All of these things are certainnecessary to do, to make a real
(36:19):
podcast app worthy of promoting.
In
James (36:21):
20, 21, or we have a fine sponsor of Buzzsprout,
Buzzsprout have a service calledmagic mastering, which does
much the same sort of thing.
You can upload away a fight ifyou like to buy a sprout and it
will remaster that and sort outthe dynamics for you and make
that into a lovely MP3 file.
If that's what you want.
What have you tried so far then?
Eva, what's the one thatyou're using the most.
(36:42):
It sounds as if it's overcast,but that's not got all
of the features in there.
What else have you found?
That's good.
Evo (36:47):
So I've been, I spent most of last weekend playing
around with three new.
Podcast apps from new podcastapps.com to plug that little
free service, which detailsout the new podcast apps
James (36:58):
boost button.
Now yes.
Hit the boost.
Evo (37:00):
Yes.
so fountain and pod verse andpod friend are the three that
I'm playing with most right now.
And I've spoken with thedevelopers in all of those
and they all love what I haveto say, but they also say.
We are working eitheron a shoestring budget
(37:22):
or we're or no, or avirtual shoestring budget.
We are, we're totallyout of shoestrings.
or it's, we've gota laundry list.
That's a mile long aswe're trying to get to.
So it's a nice tohave just be happy.
We're making what we'redoing right now and I get
it and I am happy with whatthey're doing right now.
I just want to encouragethem to do more.
James (37:39):
Yeah.
And I wonder whetherthere is something there.
Maybe taking, an open sourceapp and getting a little bit
of resource into it to actuallymake the podcast as podcast app.
Maybe that's a planfor the future.
Although, maybe that's about it.
Who
Evo (37:52):
knows what they could do rather than trying to play
the let's do everything game.
I think another great anglewould be let's focus on
a particular underserved.
Portion of thelistening audience.
who's not getting what theyneed out of the current
podcast, listening apps.
I think it's not a crazy ideato think someone will come
along and build a podcastlistening app that doesn't
have 4 million podcasts init, but is only designed
(38:16):
to, for example, listen to.
Sports-related podcasts, butmaybe there's a special way.
Sports podcasts, listeners wantto consume their content grouped
by teams or sporting types orvarious weird things like that.
W I think we're to thesize now where rather than
trying to get everyone,everybody together, maybe
we just make hyper-focused.
(38:37):
These are the thingsthat this does, and if
you really want the bestpossible experience in this.
What we've built.
We've got an app that does just
James (38:45):
that podcast.
Pontifications is in allgood podcasting apps and
quite a few bad ones, too.
Evo.
Thank you so much for your time.
Evo (38:52):
Thank you very much for your time, James.
And don't forgetthat, that boost
Sam (38:55):
button . I have to say those for a wishlist,
is what he's asking.
Very useful.
what, the most recenttranscripts individual cues,
I mean that, they're allthings that, that we want.
And it, what it got me thinkingabout is, again, with all
the other features that we'vejust discussed as well, with
captivate, pushing to podchaser with entail, doing
(39:18):
discovery is that we're in a.
I want to call it a podcastwars because before I explain
that somebody this week,and I know we're coming to
boost the Graham quarter, buthe, whoever you are, mark,
please reveal your surname.
Come hoping you'renot mark Cuban.
You said somethingthat absolutely the
penny dropped for me.
(39:39):
You described applepodcasts as the new internet
Explorer of podcast players.
And it, the minuteyou said that I do.
Yep.
That is exactly what they are.
I was with Netscapeduring the podcast wars.
I was the European productmanager for communicator.
What we were fighting, whatwere for new standards?
We were fighting fornew versions of HTML.
(40:00):
We were fighting to pushthe browser forward and
Microsoft with IAE wherethe dominant incumbent, who
just drag their knucklesdidn't do anything, came up
with predatory standards.
Do you remember active ex
James (40:13):
James?
Oh yes.
Active
Sam (40:15):
ex.
Yeah.
And they had so many, anyways that they try to kill
the industry or turn it intoan internal wall garden.
Apple, I'm sorry.
You are the newinternet Explorer.
And I think.
I think that's the titlethey need to take in.
I try to make friendswith apple, but they never
(40:35):
get to sponsor as Jamesis to the way he both,
James (40:37):
they're never going to sponsor anything.
that's not how it work.
Sam (40:40):
Yeah, exactly.
But I think what the funniestthing for me is somebody
who was really heavilyinvolved in that timeframe.
Microsoft now use chromium asthe basis for their browser.
Yeah.
Yeah.
They've gone full circle.
Yeah.
And I hope that maybe apple,one day we'll actually start
(41:00):
to look at the podcast indextutor, own namespace and
start to say, yeah, actually.
The industry'sworking around that.
And maybe we need to adopt it.
I dunno where Spotify fitsin all this, by the way.
Cause I can't come up with agood analogy to what browser
they would have been, butthey're certainly not Netscape
James (41:17):
that's for certain yeah.
Cello.
Yes.
I think there you go.
that's showing my age.
Yeah, no, I agree.
I think that the podcast names.
Is something that peopleshould be particularly apple
and Google should be lookinginto very seriously, because
I think there's a bunch ofvery useful things for Apple's
(41:41):
current issues with notupdating shows properly and
all of that kind of stuff.
There's a bunch of usefultools that can be built in
to help all of that work.
So I'm surprised thatthey haven't been doing,
more looking into that.
Sam (41:55):
Going back to evoke terror.
So what he's saying is thatlots of smaller apps are
beginning to put tools likechapters, and as we've seen,
credits and people support.
Is there going to be one ofthose that steps forward you
think, is there a potentialwinner out of that's coming
out or is it too earlyto see as an alternative
James (42:15):
client?
Oh, I think it's very difficultto see and I, my hope and
my hope has always beenthat PocketCasts or someone
similar overcast, maybe,although that won't happen.
Grabs the opportunitiesgiven to them by the new
podcast, namespace withboth hands and goes away and
makes the best podcast appthat deals with all of the
(42:39):
new podcast namespace tags.
To me, that would be thedifferentiator between pocket
casts and the incumbent.
The Google, theSpotify and the apple.
And I think that would bethe absolute right choice
for Russell and for, Phil,I think it is to end up
doing, obviously I'm not theproduct manager and by all
(43:02):
accounts, it's not been a fun18 months at the pocket costs.
folks, I'm sure that they'vegot a bunch of tech debt
that they need to fix first.
but that would be my ideal.
Now, the other
Sam (43:13):
thing that came out of, listening to.
Was, he was just somethingthat he was saying
all the way through.
And you said something as wellabout boost grams as well.
You Chub's client actuallyis really where I think
a lot of podcast clientsmight want to have a look
at the timestamp things now,just beginning to come in.
So if you take bussprout, cause we.
(43:34):
We use that a lot.
So fundamentally that timestampthing, which has been in YouTube
forever and a day, the sharingcapability, but they've got
comments, but the one that it'smost interesting in YouTube,
if you follow any of the, Iknow football ones that I do,
you've got this thing calledsuper follows and which I think
are really interesting andvery similar to boost to grams.
(43:57):
But they're done moreoften with live streams
where you can actuallypay $5, $10 or whatever,
and it is cash amounts.
but then the host will seethat and it'll highlight up in
the comments very differently.
And then they canread that comment out.
They ignore the rest ofthe comments by the way.
So the stream could be flyingthrough and they'll only
look at the super follows.
(44:18):
I wonder where the, in a realworld environment where you
let's say we did this podcastlive via a client where the
Brewster grams would be that as
James (44:29):
well.
Yeah.
I don't think there's anythingto stop booster grams.
the way that the whole thinghas been built, there's
nothing necessarily to stopthem from using fierce,
from using real currency.
but.
I'm also very aware thatactually the benefit of using
the cryptocurrency stuffis that it means that it's
completely de-centralizedand no one is in charge.
(44:49):
And we've just seen all ofthat kerfuffle with only fans
that is kerfuffle, which hasbeen driven by MasterCard who
have turned around and said,we don't want people paying
for smart, with MasterCard.
Thank you very much.
Could you please stop the smart.
I think, that,that's the concern.
(45:10):
I think I put quite apart fromthe individual cost of, taking
a credit card payment, that'sthe main concern that many
people in podcasting shouldhave of, just making sure
that this is a open thing,but I do wonder sometimes.
I've started talking with afew people about, booster grams
being internet tokens, andyou buy internet tokens and
(45:34):
you give them to other people.
And that's really what a sat is.
Yes.
You can turn it into cash.
Yes.
It's actually a Bitcoin.
Yes, it's cryptocurrency.
But at the end of the day,it's an internet token.
It's the same as afairground token.
When you go into the, whenyou go to the fair or,
any of that sort of thing.
And I think if we think aboutit in that way, it becomes
far less scary and some peoplemay choose to cash them in.
(45:56):
Some people may justchoose to hold them.
And that's fine too.
Yeah.
It's a
Sam (45:59):
micro payment system.
We've wanted for awhile on the internet.
In fact, yeah.
I remember listeningto Marc Andreessen.
Talk about the one thing hewished he did creative when he
first created Netscape browserwas a micropayment system.
You said that was the onething they wished they'd done.
And I know Facebook triedrecently and failed abysmally
with their micropaymentsystems, cause no one
(46:20):
trusts mark Zuckerberg.
and that's why I thinka lot of that failed.
But it's the, I think theproblem is it simple enough?
You've implemented it.
How easy is it to
James (46:29):
implement hideously complicated at the moment,
but it is much easier nowthan it was three months ago.
And that's the point?
I think it's very quicklybeginning to be easier.
this isn't iPod X, aswe were talking about
with Eva, it's not.
I was, trying to tell somebodythe other day about, it
(46:51):
was listening from Norwayand he wants to help this
show and her downloadedfountain and found the whole
thing really complicated.
And I said, you'reprobably not young enough.
To have been playing around withyour copy of windows 3.1 and
try to configure your wind sock.
but you'll remember configuringwind sock and everything else
(47:13):
so that you could actuallyget onto the internet, and
all these kinds of weirdand wonderful stuff and how
complicated all of that was.
And now it's super easy andit's built into everything.
I think that's basicallywhere we are at the moment.
And I think.
Anything that makeslife easier and simpler.
We'll come and we'llcome very quickly.
And certainly it's far easier.
(47:33):
Now then, as I say, than itwas three months or so ago
to set up value for valueand to start accepting Sam.
So
Sam (47:42):
talking of, value for value.
Have we had any
James (47:45):
boosts this week?
yes, let's play.
Adam's very exciting.
Very top 40 boosterGraham corner jingle.
Now it's
Evo (47:52):
time for the
James (47:53):
boost
Sam (47:54):
to Graham corner.
James (47:56):
It's too much.
And we've got a number ofdifferent messages here.
Mary Oscar fromfountain 769 SATs.
It says here, although thatmight not be what Mary Oscar
thought he was paying, becauseof the way that these things
work, I should just point out.
But anyway, Mary says, orOscar says another great
episode looking forward tocoming on in a few weeks time.
(48:16):
Oh yes.
Oscar's coming onin a few weeks time.
Isn't it?
A fountain.
So that should be good.
He is excellent.
Dave Jackson, thepodcast has podcaster.
he, very kindly sent us a 500SATs or so with a fountain.
He says, keep up the great work.
Thank you.
Dave.
Dave has put together a brandnew podcast called leading the
bleeding, which is essentiallyDave, trying to understand
(48:38):
how all of this stuff works.
And, working to enable hispodcasts as value for value.
He's going to turn thatwhole experience into a
podcast, which is really good.
And, it should be wellworth having a listen to,
that is available now inall good podcast apps.
And in Spotify,
Sam (48:55):
Nick says he loves pod land.
Thank you, Nick.
Add he sent us 990 stats.
I knew he was using fountain.
I think that may be
James (49:02):
fountains.
Yeah.
Ah, maybe who
Sam (49:05):
knows.
and Dave said, thanksfor the kind words SAB.
You're the host ofthe football podcast.
You can't let an Australianguy with a raspberry PI school,
your base styles, yellow card.
Thank you, Dave.
Thank you so much.
He said just 20,903 stats.
And again, using fountain.
Yeah.
James (49:23):
20,000 SaaS is a lot as well.
Dave, thank youvery much for that.
That's a very kind that's that?
That is probably.
Another beer thatI can school Mr.
Sethi on when I can finallyget over to the UK in 2025.
Assuming of course that youactually have any pubs left or
indeed any food available inyour country, which appears to
be falling apart as we speak.
(49:45):
Yeah.
Sam (49:45):
Anyway.
Yeah, we might end upjust having to grow what
we can find in fields.
So yes, that's it.
James (49:52):
it's quite a thing.
And Adam.
I it has, I think, sentyou a message here.
4,900 sites through Curio Casta.
Thank you, Adam.
What does Adam said here?
Sam (50:02):
Thank you for considering the podcast
index with your academy fees.
Yes, I would.
I'd rather pay you Adam,that I would pay the academy.
James (50:11):
I'm sorry.
I think he's not looking for apromise if I'd rather pay you.
I think he's lookingfor some money.
Maybe we might.
Okay.
Maybe we might send them over.
Sam (50:21):
So yeah, they're great.
You know what they aregreat because it does
what you just said, James.
It just allows us to know thatpeople are listening and what
they think of what we say.
James (50:30):
Indeed.
No, I think it's areally good thing.
And I think the easier thatwe can make it, the more
satisfactory it will be foranybody that is doing a podcast.
Sam (50:39):
Yeah.
And I fully agreewith your comment.
I think it will be, hidden intoapps and made very simple way.
You take fearcurrency converted to.
Token SATs.
And then you can just usethem where you want your data.
It'll be a good model.
Lastly, Buzzsproutgoing back to them.
boss sprout has nowincluded the podcast guru
ID into the RSS feeds whata Gilead's again, just
James (51:02):
remind me, ah, this is a, it's a standard way
of an ID for your podcast.
It stays with your podcast.
Whatever you use.
So if you shift from, andthey've seen to, and then maybe
you shift to captivate and thensprout, obviously, cause bus
parrots are brilliant and thenyou're good will never change.
And that means that you canlink to your podcast in a
(51:23):
standard way, which meansthat no one is in charge
of that ID at the moment.
We're all using appleID numbers and those are
not particularly helpful.
it's a great thing to see.
Buzzsprout.
Are now doing Google ads,fully in their system.
And I look forward tomore podcasts companies
doing that too.
I wonder if apple
Sam (51:42):
Explorer will ever change now, apple
James (51:45):
Explorer.
Ouch.
Sam (51:48):
Oh, I sell you.
Mark has given me so much hopewith his little statement.
Aye.
Aye.
On the basis that Ideleted by apple podcast,
player, client, wow.
It's gone.
Gosh.
James (52:00):
Yeah, that's a thing I'm going to use
Sam (52:01):
it until next week when I have to.
Cause there's a feature,I'll leave test it, but
then that'll be that now,lastly, and it feels like
we are beating them up, butapple podcast download bug.
it, again, it seems tobe raising its head.
Is there anything else that'sbeen said about, I think Triton
digital had some data about it.
Triton,
James (52:20):
it's been basically saying with all of the
podcasts rankers that theyproduce, is there's been
a significant drop in theamount of podcasts downloads
if you compare may to July.
so in the middle of June waswhere, people were transitioning
over to the new apple podcasts.
And if you compare may toJuly, it's down on average by,
somewhere in the region of.
(52:41):
A percent or so, which, backsup the random number that
I came up with earlier on.
So yeah, you can see that'shappening, but you can also
see pod tracker releasing,weekly figures, which I don't
typically report on becauseotherwise that's the only thing
that I would be doing, butthey are showing that those
are beginning to increase it.
As the fix has, has rolled out.
(53:02):
good on apple for fixingthat and for rolling it out.
I'm sure, there are lots ofthings that we can criticize
them for, but I think, theydid act, relatively fast once
they knew that there was a.
Okay.
A few things coming up,which might be useful to know
about the Australian podcastawards is back for 2021.
I'm a director of thecompany this year.
It features a totalof 31 award entries.
(53:25):
You should take part it'sreally robustly, judged.
Proud of it.
well-worth going to, take apeek just to a Google search
for Australian podcast awards.
There's also the NewZealand podcast awards.
If you're a Kiwi and you saythe word dairy a lot, the
deadline for nominations forthat is September the first.
So get a move on and the IABhas announced the final agenda
(53:47):
for the IEB podcast upfront.
Which is happening in New York,actually in New York, between
September the ninth and 10th.
it's something that allowsmedia buyers to preview new
shows, coming from podcastpublishers and new ad tech tools
to, don't see if you can gobecause it's invite only, but
it's a good thing to take partin if you have been invited.
(54:07):
And finally there is theinternational women's
podcast awards, whichsure has been announced as
the headline partner of athat's already been judged.
I understand theceremony is in line.
On September the 23rd.
Excellent.
Sam (54:20):
I always thought the only way to tell the difference
between Kiwis and Aussies was toask them to say fish and chips,
James (54:25):
fashion shops.
yes, there is that.
Or, yes, they call acorner, shop a dairy,
which is very strange.
And, yes, there a strange,one of the clubhouse rooms
that I occasionally jump intois basically run by Kiwis.
And it's great fun to jump inthere and hear all of these,
Americans, gassed at thefact that they're talking to
(54:46):
somebody from New Zealand.
So it's very interesting.
It's always a good thing.
Sam (54:51):
Did you say clubhouse?
Sorry, this is 19.
I did say club's sorry.
Are we back inJanuary 20, 21 again?
James (54:58):
No, it's still going, I believe.
so yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Sam (55:02):
Finally then James.
So what else has happened foryou in Portland this week?
James (55:05):
so I have spent much of the week talking to lawyers
about a news story that,we're not mentioning today.
so that's good.
It's been a bit of a fraughtweek for, reasons, best knots.
gone into, Sam, what ishappening for you in Portland
over the next few weeks?
Sam (55:19):
my wig sounds a lot quieter than yours.
That's for certain, I'minterviewing Gary Lineker the,
famous football on TV pundits.
Crisp salesman.
Yes, indeed.
So that's this week, I justinterviewed Joe Royal from,
any Everton fans out therewould know who he was.
James (55:35):
Family.
Yeah.
Yeah.
very funny.
No,
Sam (55:39):
yes, no.
Unless you read the football,it's not a podcast you want to.
James (55:43):
Yeah.
All the Americans listening haveno concept of what's going on
Sam (55:48):
now.
I'll just say soccer and
James (55:50):
there'll be fine.
And this is for your, thisis for your English premier
league soccer podcast, whichis called the old spice book.
Indeed.
And you'll find that in allgood podcast apps like this one.
And that's it for thisweek, you can come back
to pipeline next time.
Follow us cost app.
Oh, we're at Podlanddot news on the web.
Sam (56:09):
If you have any comments or questions.
And you'd like to talk tothis show as well, tweet us at
James (56:14):
potluck news.
Yes.
And if you would likedaily news, you should get
pod news, the newslettersfree upon news.net.
The podcast is in yourpodcast app, and that's
where you'll find the linksfor all the stories we've
mentioned in this way.
Our
Sam (56:25):
music is from ignite jingles and.
And sponsored a by bussprout and a Riverside FM.
If you enjoyed this episodeor any of the other previous
ones, please tell yourfriend about Portland.
I will see you in Portland
James (56:38):
and also thank you to headliner for giving
us some excellent tools aswell and keep listening.
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