Don't just listen to podcasts - watch them, says YouTube CEO - Podnews Weekly Review

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice Min (00:00):
The Pod News Weekly Review uses chapters, so you can
skip the story coming up laterabout Australia, because who
cares about that?

Jingle (00:07):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Sethi.

James Cridland (00:15):
I'm James.

Sam Sethi (00:15):
Cridland, the editor of Pod News, and I'm Sam Sethi,
the CEO of True Fans.

Neal Mohan (00:20):
Having those podcasts hosted on YouTube and
having the algorithm find newaudiences for you every single
day turns out to be really,really powerful, no matter how
big of a podcaster you are.

YouTube's Neil Mohan on podcasting on the
platform Plus.
The download is dead andAustralia is better than you.
This podcast is sponsored byBuzzsprout with the tools,
support and community to ensureyou keep podcasting, start
podcasting, start podcasting,keep podcasting with
buzzsproutcom From your dailynewsletter, the Pod News Weekly

(00:51):
Review.

Sam Sethi (00:52):
Right, james.
Look, shock horror this week,james.
Yes, the man that runs a videoplatform says people don't want
to just listen.
Yes, they want to watch.
I wonder why he'd say that whowould have thought that?

no, who would have thunk it hey zut.

Sam Sethi (01:10):
Alors, as the french say, um youtube ceo.
Neil moham was over in cantalking to janice min.
It was about the platform.
Um what did you think?

Well, yes, it was a 45-minute or so
invite-only meeting.
Apparently Did you get yours?
I did, funnily enough, but thiswas the day before.
Neil Mohan then went on stageand said more stuff, and I
believe he went on stage and wastalking about AI and was
talking about how they're goingto be implementing AI into

(01:44):
shorts and all that kind ofstuff which I don't, I'm not
particularly interested in, butfrom the point of view of
podcasting, it was quiteinteresting.
So Janice Min, if you don'tknow, is the CEO and
editor-in-chief of the Ankler,which is a bridge.
You have to be very careful howyou say that, very careful how

(02:10):
you say that.
And this is three minutes ofNeil Mohan from where that quote
came from, talking aboutpodcasting on YouTube.
Let's take a listen.

Neal Mohan (02:15):
Podcasts on YouTube are really like a perfect
example of what feels like anovernight success.
But it was many years in themaking, making really, and we
first started to notice podcastsand back then really audio
podcasts like as a thing onYouTube, frankly, without us
doing anything like no productinnovation, so just in spite of

(02:36):
ourselves, before COVID, and sothat long ago, and we made kind
of two or three sort of key betsaround podcasts.
One was and COVID acceleratedthis was that people actually
don't want to just listen topodcasts, they want to watch
podcasts, they want to watchthis conversation happening.
By the way, is this going to goon YouTube?

(02:56):
I hope so there's a camera.
So, like watching that in somesense, it's sort of like back to
the future, right, like in somesense the old news uh interview
shows that used to happen Right, and so people really want to
watch.
So video was a really big betthat turned out to be true.
The other was that podcastingfrom a podcaster's perspective

(03:21):
is not just about sort ofreliability of the audience and
of course we have that withsubscribers and channel
subscribers and making sure thatthe audience always keeps
showing up but just as important, if not more important, around
the discoverability.
You want to keep growing thataudience every single day, and
so having those podcasts hostedon YouTube and having the

(03:41):
algorithm find new audiences foryou every single day turns out
to be really, really powerful,no matter how big of a podcaster
you are.
And then the third piece isjust like we were talking about
earlier is really aroundmonetization.
Podcast content is amazing forbrands, and so can we find a way
to innovate there?
How do we get past sort of likethe generic table reads to a

(04:03):
much more dynamic ad model thatreally works with brands and
brings their creativity to thetable.
So that's a big bet for me.
And so those are the threeareas in terms of how I think
about the success of podcasts onYouTube.

Janice Min (04:18):
But, Neil, I want to point out that YouTube is
bringing a different audience topodcasts.
I have the podcast charts andYouTube started to do podcast
charts, so this is sointeresting to me.
On the top podcasts by platform.
So the week this was done,number one on Apple good hang
with Amy Poehler.
Spotify Joe Rogan, YouTube JoeRogan.
But after that it all becomescompletely different and there

(04:41):
are things I hadn't heard ofdifferent and there are things I
hadn't heard of.
Kill Tony is your number twofor you Rotten Mango, which is
true crime, and so how do youaccount for that difference in
and so on, and how do youaccount for that difference of
what podcasts are hitting onYouTube versus the other
platforms?

Neal Mohan (04:57):
Just, my view is, all of those podcasts, all of
those podcast genres, talent etcetera should have a home on
YouTube, like my job is to makeit so that they're all
successful.
There's enough of an audiencethere that all of those
podcasters can ultimately besuccessful.
I think the main differentiatoris, you know, we're a video

(05:19):
first platform, right?
So podcasters that really sortof lean into that and what I
mean by that is not, you know,highly produced news show style
production, but recognizing thathaving sort of like a familiar
look and feel for your audienceand finding a way to act you
know, so much of communicationis nonverbal, right.
So really really capturing thatthose are the podcasts that

(05:42):
tend to be successful in ourplatform.
So Stephanie, stephanie Sue ofRotten Mango is a good example,
right.
So she had a podcast.
Then she bet on video.
She put up her podcast on herYouTube channel and grew her
subs by 2 million in a littleover a year because of that bet,
and it turns out that genrelike true crime with video,

(06:04):
works really successfully on ourplatform.

Wow.
So what do you reckon to all ofthat, Sam?
I heard him talking about a newad monetization model in the
middle of that.

Sam Sethi (06:19):
Yeah, look, at the end of the day they are, as you
said, a video first platform andif video first is what you want
to do, then please crack on.
It's like saying, when TV camealong, radio would die.
We've seen this analogy before.
Right, radio exists, tv exists,podcasting will exist, video

(06:42):
podcasting will exist.
Never the twain, shall we.
There is a massive crossover forhigh-end production companies
because over time, I think if wewere doing it, let's say you
and I, the extra editing that wewould have to do through video
editing would just, you know, Ithink, suck the life out of you.
James.
I think you know it's hardenough when you're trying to put

(07:04):
out a podcast, james.
I think you know it's hardenough when you're trying to put
out a podcast, let alone avideo podcast, because of all of
the cuts and the lip syncs andeverything else.
And I know the tools aregetting better, but I don't
think it justifies theadditional time and effort.
But you know, yes, true crime,new shows the news agents are
and the rest is politics twoshows I listen and sometimes

(07:27):
watch, but I don't really watch,I don't see the value.

But good luck to those people that are doing it,
having a podcast, and then shebet on video, as if they are two
totally different things.
But then arguing that podcastsexist on YouTube, um, I mean, I
think he should possibly makehis mind up is a podcast on

(07:54):
YouTube still a podcast or is ita piece of TV?
And if it's a piece of TV, well, fine that, that, that's
absolutely fine.
I don't.
I don't have a problem withpeople making pieces of TV.
So you know, and you know, justfrom that point of view, that
must have been a YouTube, youknow, filmed for YouTube, and

(08:14):
you can tell, because quite alot of that was off mic, because
you know you wouldn'tnecessarily have mic'd that up
for a podcast.
You can hear the full interviewon the Ankler podcast, by the
way, and I think that thatprobably says everything that if
you're making a video show, youdon't necessarily, you can't

(08:35):
necessarily put audio front andcentre.
You've got to make audio andvideo front and centre as well.
The other thing that I'msurprised at is that the CEO and
editor-in-chief, janice Min,doesn't understand the
differences between the podcastcharts.
Obviously, the Apple chart isgoing to show very different
shows, because the Apple chartis a trending chart, whereas the

(08:56):
YouTube chart is a chart basedon watch time, so the longest
piece of video wins.
So obviously they're going tobe different, janice, because
that's how it works.
But yeah, there's 45 minutesmore of that which I'm not going
to listen to because I think myblood would boil.

Sam Sethi (09:17):
But he was talking about.
You said, new forms ofadvertising as well.
What did you think he meant?

Yes, and he sort of decries the table, read as
he called it, and said you know,we can do better than that.
We can do dynamic.
You know stuff, but I'm notquite sure what he means.
He said how do we get?

Sam Sethi (09:41):
Is it going to be like TV break ad ad section back
to the TV.

I mean it could be, couldn't it?
I mean that's how I mean youcould do that on a YouTube video
anyway if you wanted to.
You know quite a lot of YouTubevideos break for for
commercials if you don't pay toget rid of them.
But yeah, I mean his actualwords there rid of them.

(10:07):
But yeah, I mean his actualwords there.
How do we get past the generictable reads to a much more
dynamic ad model that reallyworks with brands and brings
their creativity to the table.
I think you'll find that that'sexactly how YouTubers are
already monetizing their contentand that's doing sponsorships
and sitting down and workingwith some of the brands.
So I'm not quite sure what hemeans other than dynamic ad

(10:29):
model.
What does dynamic ad model mean?
Does it mean, yeah, I don'tknow.

Sam Sethi (10:34):
I mean, this is where my brain's just gone to TV
commercials, right, literally.
Will they stop the podcast?
Have a break.
Will they stop the podcast?
Have a break.
Show you a visual ad ratherthan a host read ad or a textual
based table, and then move backto the podcast after.

I think that's where he is thinking of going.
Yeah, who knows?
It's really interesting, reallyinteresting to hear.
That was obviously a tinyamount of the full chat which
you can hear full on the Anklerpodcast, and obviously
podcasting is a tiny part ofYouTube and I think that's one
of the things that worries meabout podcasting on YouTube is

(11:19):
that it is a tiny little part ofYouTube.
Um, and they have no interestor care whether podcasting
succeeds or fails on the on theplatform.
Why should they?
They didn't care about itactually starting, Um, so you
know what I mean.
So I'm, I'm, I'm kind of therethinking, you know, well, great,
if podcasting is a success onYouTube, well, fantastic, um for

(11:43):
YouTube, but if it's not asuccess, well, they don't care
much.
So, yeah, it's content.
It's content to sell ads.
It is indeed it's content tosell ads and at the end of the
day, they've got plenty of otherpeople making cheap TV for them
, and that's not to decry whatYouTubers are doing.
There's some YouTube shows thatI watch which are really really

(12:05):
good, but clearly made on aniPhone, but that's absolutely
fine.
So, you know, but that's adifferent bit of content than
podcasting.
So, anyway, well, there we are.

Sam Sethi (12:20):
I would say one thing , okay, just to balance it up.
We've talked in the past aboutparasocial relationships.
This is where the listenerknows more about the host
through the osmosis of listeningover time to an episode or
episodes, and so they will knowthat you live in Australia,
james, I live in Marlow, we do X, y or Z, so the listeners know

(12:45):
more about us than we perceive.
And that parasocialrelationship, I guess goes one
stage further when you add video.
I think Neil mentioned it.
You know a lot of communicationis non-verbal and so video adds
a non-verbal interface where,again, that parasocial

(13:07):
relationship I guess could beseen as a stronger relationship.
So there is that element,because why would you tune in to
watch um rory, uh, uh stewartand um, the rest is politics?
Yeah, just to see two talkingheads.

No, I agree, I agree, yeah, absolutely.
And you know, I mean Neil isright in saying well, you know,
you do get to see people'sfacial expressions and that sort
of thing, and yes, you do.
But yes, it is a parasocialthing.
It's why webcams existed onradio station websites all those

(13:50):
years ago, because people justwant to be closer to the voices
that they hear.
So, yeah, so I guess there isthat kind of side to it.

Sam Sethi (13:59):
And to prove Neil right, there is a new podcast
launching with Zoe Ball and JoeWiley.
Persephoneca are launching itin.
It's going to be a twice weeklyshow, they say, which will be
fully visualised on YouTube.
I love that expression.
I was like, oh, fullyvisualised.

It's a very British phrase, that
visualisation.
It comes from the BBC wherethey were doing visualised radio
in 2005.
And so Zoe Ball in case youdon't know, zoe Ball and Joe
Wiley, two of the biggest radioDJs in the UK.
They both worked for a longtime on BBC Radio 2, which is

(14:36):
the most listened to radiostation in Europe, and so
they're doing a lifestyle showwith Persephonica, starting in
the middle of July there's noname for it yet and I'm
imagining twice weekly they'llbe copying the Restiz plan of
having a full episode followedby Q&A, because that's the

(14:57):
easiest way to make a twiceweekly show, because you can
record all of that at the sametime, but, yes, being fully
visualised on YouTube.
I thought it was interestingthat they would come out with
that from the get go, butobviously, from Persephoneca's
point of view, they need to goout and sell the ads that go
around.
That I guess.

Sam Sethi (15:19):
Now, Australia, where you reside, is better than the
UK.
I have here as a title how come, I don't know.
Well, sometimes I do.
I think the weather might bebetter, but do tell.

Yes, absolutely correct.
Yes, well better than the UK interms of podcast listening.
It turns out.
The Infinite Dial Australia2025 came out yesterday.
Edison Research and CRA Cameout yesterday.
Edison Research and CRA andpodcasting now mainstream media
in Australia, in the UK it's 51%of the British population

(15:54):
listens to… it's always 51%James …listens to a podcast
every month.
51% yes.

Neal Mohan (16:00):
Yes, 48, 52.

Yes, yes, too soon.
Whereas here in Australia it's52%.
Yay, we've beaten the oldcountry and we're approaching
the US, which is 55%.
Really good to see the infinitedial.
We only have the top levelresults so far, so we don't have
all of the detail quite yet,but some good numbers coming out

(16:24):
of that.
There was another number, whichI'm just going to remind myself
of by opening another window,which is the top audio sources
in cars.
The Infinite Dial asked do youuse the following in cars?
84% say that they listen to theradio in the car.
36% say they listen to podcastsin a car, with 50% listening to

(16:47):
music via streaming apps 36%.
So that's a third, over a thirdof people consuming podcasts in
cars, which is pretty good.
Hello to you if you're driving.
So, yeah, I just thought.
Interesting data from theInfinite Dial.
Also, by the way, interestingdata from the Digital News

(17:08):
Report, which has we'll talkabout it in a global fashion in
just a second, but theAustralian version of that came
out.
It's put together by theUniversity of Canberra.
Down here they have a chapteron podcasting and there's a
couple of very interesting statsin there.
One of those stats is that,well, 9% of Australians say they

(17:33):
use podcasts for news in thepast week.
That probably tells you thatthere are many other places of
getting news, but the numberthat I thought was very
interesting 59% of Australiansare willing to pay for news
podcasts 59%.
So here we are.
You know, sam, one day we willtalk about payment of podcasts.

(18:01):
We will one day.
We also talked to Oscar, Ibelieve from Fountain, but 59%
of podcast listeners newspodcast listeners are willing to
pay for them in some way, shapeor form, which I thought was
really interesting.
It's the highest number in theworld the US is at 46%, but even
that is still really high.
So, yeah, I thought that wasinteresting really high.

Sam Sethi (18:27):
So, yeah, I thought that was interesting.
I think it goes back to I thinkit's a trend, I think when we
look back over 2025, I thinkwe'll see more and more quality
content going behind paywalls,more and more people willing to
pay.
We've got trained through, Idon't know, Netflix through
Prime, through Apple TV, ofpaying for content and I think
people are saying, okay, goingback to that point about video,

(18:50):
it's not quick, it's not easy,it is expensive if you do it
right and no one wants to throwthat out the front door for free
.
Or if they are throwing out thefront door, they want to ensure
they've got a strong admonetization behind it to
continue doing it.
Otherwise, you're just going tohave pod fade or what would be
the equivalent video fade.

(19:10):
I don't know what would that be, but I think you know it's
great to see that trend being, Isuppose, validated Right, which
is something that was in my gutthat that's where the trend is
going and it's good to see thatnow there's some validation in
the data as well.
But that's the way it's goingas well.

No, it's good to end up seeing that there's one
other piece of data here fromAustralia, which was the
Australian Podcast Ranker, whichhas come out.
Average weekly listenership isthe highest ever.
It's the same number as inMarch, but the highest ever,
which is 7 million.
And if you ever hear peoplesaying that you can't launch a

(19:53):
new show in this day and age,then they're wrong, Because
Mushroom Case Daily from the ABC, although it's actually been
going for a year, it hit numberfive last month, up from 180
something or other, with morethan 3.3 million downloads in

(20:13):
the month it's covering.
There's a case going on at themoment which, because for rather
complicated technical reasons,this podcast is an Australian
podcast I have to be verycareful what I say, but it's a
continuing case of somebodycalled Erin Patterson who says
she's innocent of killing familymembers with poisonous
mushrooms and that's all that Ican really say on that.
But Mushroom Case Daily isreally interesting and that's a

(20:37):
real hit all of a sudden becausethe court case has actually
started and is going on.
So, yeah, so I just thought youknow, interesting seeing a
successful show coming fromessentially nowhere.
Yes, it's got a bit ofpromotion on the telly and on
the radio, and that, by the way,is audio only you mentioned the

(20:59):
Digital News Report.

Sam Sethi (21:00):
They've got some other data as well.
What have they said?

Yes, so the Digital News Report is actually
a piece of global work, globalwith a small g.
It's from the Reuters Institute.
One part of the data looks atthe changing landscape for news
podcasts.
It's all about news, you know,obviously, and there's a
particular segment which looksspecifically at the US, UK and
Norway, for some reason whichI've not yet fully understood.

(21:25):
But in terms of what it says,in the US, the data suggests
that YouTube is the main accesspoint for news podcasts in the
US.
In the country, 15% say thatthey access a news podcast
weekly.
But the really interestingnumbers were Joe Rogan and

(21:47):
Tucker Carlson.
Joe Rogan reached in the weekafter the inauguration.
Just that week, Joe Roganreached 22%, so that's over one
in five of everybody in the US,according to their sample at
least, which is massive, isn'tit?
I mean that is a massive,massive podcast, or is it a

(22:07):
massive, massive YouTube video?
Discuss Receipt earlier.
Yes, indeed, so that wasinteresting, but also
interesting what's going on inyour neck of the woods in the UK
, Although the percentage ofweekly news podcast listeners in
the UK is half that of the US.

(22:28):
Interestingly, the BBC, whichhas been going for over 100
years and is the place where yougo to find news in the UK.
They are at number four andnumber five in terms of
podcasting.
Americast is at number four,Newscast is at number five.
Those should surely be theother way around, you would
argue.
But there are three independentshows at the top Goldhangers.

(22:53):
The rest is politics number one, Globals, the news agents I
know you're a big fan at numbertwo and Politics Joe at number
three.
They are all all, by the way,available in video as well as in
audio, which I think says quitea lot.
Um, but uh, I find itfascinating that the BBC is
underperforming so badly when itcomes to UK podcasting.

(23:16):
Um, overseas it's a little bitmore different, but in the UK,
yeah, really interesting.

Sam Sethi (23:22):
I think the BBC has got a massive problem in its
balanced broadcasting that ithas to do right.
I think it can't make opinionand I think it sits on the fence
too often, whereas the podcastshows like, the rest is politics
, and news agents can take astance, they can take a position
.
You might not agree with it,but they can be much more un

(23:45):
unbiased in this, or maybeshould I say more biased in
their positioning.
Yes, yes, less less unbiased,more biased in their positioning
, but I think you know again,one of the other things is you
and I, when we were growing up,there would have been the david
dimplebees of the day.
There would have been um othershows that were weekend shows,
that were interview-based onpolitics.

(24:06):
You hardly see those anymoreand yet you know the news agents
are knocking one out every day,maybe two a day, you know,
depending on the news cycle.
The BBC can't cope with that.
They can't compete with thatand I just don't think that
mainstream media, even in theUSA, can.
I just saw Tucker Carlsoninterviewed Ted Cruz Great

(24:27):
interview.
I don't think you would haveseen that on any mainstream
media.
Fox would have made him goright, cnn would have made him
go left and he actually took areally strong position against
Ted Cruz and it made it a reallygood interview.
How many people live?

Tucker and Ted (24:42):
around.
By the way, I don't know thepopulation At all.
No, I don't know the population.
You don't know the populationof the country you seek to
topple.
How many people live around?
92 million.
Okay, how could you not knowthat?
I don't sit around memorizingpopulation tables?
Well, it's kind of relevantbecause you're calling for the

(25:04):
overthrow of the government.
Why is it relevant?
Whether it's 90 million or 80million, or 100 million.

Neal Mohan (25:09):
Why is that relevant ?

Because, if you, don't know anything about the
country.
I didn't say I don't knowanything about the country.
Okay, what's the ethnic mix ofIran?
They are Persians andpredominantly Shia.

Neal Mohan (25:20):
Okay, this is Iran.
So okay, I am not the TuckerCarlson expert on Iran.
You're a senator who's callingfor the overthrow of the
government.
You're the one who claims.

You don't know anything about the country.
No, you don't know anythingabout the country.
You're the one who claimsthey're not trying to murder
Donald Trump.

Neal Mohan (25:35):
No, I'm not saying that You're the one who can't
figure out if it was a good ideato kill General Soleimani, and
it doesn't mean they're tryingto murder Trump.

Yes, I do.
It says you're not calling formilitary strikes against them in
retaliation.

Neal Mohan (25:45):
If you really believe that we're carrying out
military strikes.

Sam Sethi (25:47):
today you said Israel was Right With our help, and so
I think mainstream media's gota big problem and I think we've
said in the past, youtube couldbe the new TV, as in everyone
has a channel.

Well heavens, what does that mean, I wonder?
We should wait and see.
Newscast is a great listen fromthe BBC, but I think it's still
a bit BBC when you're listeningto it.
It's a very relaxed listen andblah, blah, blah.
It suffers from the tyranny ofvideo in that it's filmed now

(26:24):
for the TV, it's visualised, Ishould say, for the TV.
So yeah, it'd be interesting.
There is definitely a paperfrom somebody on why the BBC has
failed so badly in terms ofnews podcasting in the UK, and I
would love to, I'd love to findfind somebody to put that

(26:48):
together at least one day.
But still.
But there we are, and I knowthat quite senior people at the
BBC do tune into this verypodcast.
So so, who knows, we might, wemight even get them on.
That would be nice.

Sam Sethi (27:05):
Yes, could they be unbiased in their opinion of the
BBC?

No, of course they can't Right.
Let's move on and talkdownloads.

Sam Sethi (27:14):
Yes, is the download finally dead, james?
Using downloads for measurementis a business liability, says
Bumper.
What do they mean?

Yeah, I think they are bang on the money here.
So they say that downloads aredecreasing for many podcasts,
which is correct they are.
They're going down, butdownloads are largely
disconnected from actual podcastconsumption.
So Bumper says and again,that's absolutely correct Two
things that have happened overthe last couple of years which

(27:44):
has really proved what Bumper issaying.
One of them is you remember thebig Apple iOS 17 automatic
podcast download thing in mid2023, which wiped millions of
dollars off the balance sheetsof podcasters?
That was an incredible risk forpodcasters.
But there's, of course, anotherone going on right now, which

(28:06):
is all of a sudden, podcastersare seeing far less downloads
from Spotify Because, of course,if you upload video to Spotify,
it wipes your RSS audio.
So, all of a sudden, actuallylots of people are seeing far
fewer podcast downloads becauseof YouTube and because of

(28:27):
Spotify video.
So I think they're absolutelyright in saying that downloads
are decreasing.
We need a better you know, abetter way of measuring how
podcasts work.
Of course, they're recommendingthe bumper dashboard, which is
very good, but, yeah, I thinkthey are absolutely right.

(28:49):
The longer that we stick withdownloads, which is an
inherently messy number, thenthe more the liability is going
to be, I think.
What do you think?

Sam Sethi (29:02):
Yeah, look, it's first-party data.
I think we've put this onethrough the ringer several times
.
It's listen time, percentcompleted, value paid.
Right, and value paid may notbe the one that anyone uses
today, but I think it will be inthe future, but listen time or
watch time are certainly themetrics that I think people

(29:22):
should be now looking at.
The problem comes back to, ascertainly the metrics that I
think people should be nowlooking at, the problem comes
back to, as we've said onnumerous occasions, that that
data isn't available to hosts.
So hosts are reliant ondownloads as their analytics
dashboard, and so they'repromoting that still as a metric
.
If they could get first partydata, then I assume that they
would deprecate the download,but they can't right, so and we

(29:46):
know that John Spurlock's putforward a proposal there are
many other ways of doing it.
So I think you know, right now,the big behemoths Apple,
spotify and YouTube have firstparty data.
They have volumes of it.
I'm pretty sure they're sharingthat with advertisers directly,
which is, you know, again, oneof their competitive advantages

(30:07):
that they have right now.

Yeah, indeed, I find it really, really
interesting, and you know, oneof the things that I'm sort of
slightly nervous about in termsof the industry's requirements
for data is, firstly, looking atdownloads, is firstly looking
at downloads and secondly and Iknow that we've just been
talking about it the amount ofpeople who listen to podcasts,

(30:32):
because that's a 51 or 53%number.
It's a lovely number, but thatnumber is going to plateau soon,
and what we want is we want anumber that we can still see
going up, and it's not going tobe reach total people, because
that is inevitably going to slowdown and stop.
What we need to be focusing onis time spent listening.

(30:52):
First and foremost, what's theoverall time spent listening of
podcasts?
And I'm really interested inseeing whether there's any data
out there which has beenmeasuring that over the last 10,
15 years or so, becausewouldn't that be great if you
could actually see thathopefully going up?
Maybe it's not going up, inwhich case that would be a

(31:16):
slight concern, wouldn't it?

Sam Sethi (31:18):
But yeah, I think every report that we you know
you just mentioned the rankersand you mentioned all of the
infinite dials everything seemsto be going in the right
direction.
Well, look, I say it may not befactually correct, but I say
podcasting is a new radio andYouTube is a new TV.
I mean, it doesn't mean that Ithink radio is gone.
I just think radio distributioncan be done through live

(31:42):
podcasting mechanisms like Lit,and I think we'll see more of
that, because I think DAB and FMis becoming much more expensive
and we're seeing I think we'vetalked about this, you know
radio stations in the US, the UKand Western Europe certainly
are, you know, merging the localradio station into the national

(32:02):
one, for cost-saving purposesmore than anything else, but
also for advertising reach.
And so as those local radiostations become extinct I guess
is the best way of putting itthey will repopulate, I think
personally, in a web-basedformat and then they will
distribute over digitalmechanisms rather than the

(32:26):
traditional transmitters.
And so I think what we areseeing is a shift in change in
people's listening behaviors.
We're going much more togetting our news from we just
said it from podcasts or fromvideo.
We're getting our information,our sports, from those.
I think the traditional radioand TV transmitter networks are

(32:48):
going to be suffering.
I wonder whether there's dataaround that You're the radio man
.
Is radio seeing a decline inthe listenership?

I mean radio.
Interestingly, radio reallyisn't.
I mean, the figures came outagain from Australian commercial
radio this week and guess what?
More people listening tocommercial radio than ever
before in Australia.
That may be because there aremore people in Australia than
ever before, which is probablythe reason, but I think I mean

(33:18):
interestingly, and this againmakes the point very well the
number of people listening tothe radio is not actually going
down particularly fast.
It really isn't.
The number of people is stayingrelatively still, but the time
spent listening is going downand is falling off a cliff for
many people, particularlyyounger audiences.

(33:40):
So it's the time spentlistening again comes back to
that rather than overall.
People is fine, but actually yousell advertising based on time
spent listening.
Because you sell advertisingbased on we've got nine minutes
or 12 minutes of ads an hour andthat's how you earn your money.
And podcasting, frankly, is nottoo different.

(34:01):
And so, therefore, time spentlistening turns into money, and
that's where radio is havingtrouble.
And, frankly, where broadcastTV is also having trouble is
that people are still watchingit, but they're watching it far,
far less than they ever used to.
So, yeah, I think it is allfascinating in terms of where

(34:23):
the future is going, but I dothink that we should stop
looking at total amounts ofpeople.
We've proved the point now.
It's mainstream, it's over 50%.
Let's move on and start talkingabout time spent, because
that's the important thing thatreally matters.

Sam Sethi (34:39):
Let's whiz around the world.
James Over to the Nordics,Weirdly.
I know that the Digital Reportincluded Norway, First time ever
that I've seen something likethat.
But let's go back to theNordics.
They saw a record high amountof household spending on audio.
So this is money spent on audiomedia.

Yes, and it's grown 20% year on year.
It's the average monthly spendon music, audiobooks and
podcasts, and it's up to 172,which is about $18 per household
.
Now, that's an average,obviously, in terms of monthly.
There are plenty of householdswho aren't spending anything.
There are plenty of householdswho, like this household, are

(35:20):
spending rather more than thaton audio.
But, yeah, $18 per household.
But I think the point there isit's grown 20% year on year and
it's something that you know.
Assuming that there's nothingparticularly weird about people
in Sweden and I've been therethere isn't really.
That should be the same inquite a lot of other countries

(35:43):
as well.

Sam Sethi (35:44):
Yeah, Again, I think we've hinted at it in the past
ourselves that, you know,quality content is moving behind
paywalls.
We've said that already.
But also, I think people arebeginning to say well, this is
Spotify's you know overallstrategy.
If you look at it, you know.
If you look at it, you knowwe're going to have music, audio

(36:11):
books, concert tickets,podcasts, subscriber based
podcasts, and I think that isthe only way actually, I think
Spotify will get out of the holethat they're building or
digging themselves into.
There was a report we talkedabout a few months ago which
said that the price elasticitythat Spotify has is about five
more dollars.
So if they increase the priceof their premium subscription by

(36:31):
around $5, I think it was somecrazy high number about 60% of
people would stop subscribing toSpotify, and so if they know
that and I'm sure they do thenthey're going.
Well, how can we?
It's called bill shock.
The BT, british Telecom, usedto use that term.
Quite often.

(36:52):
They would break up your billinto multiple smaller chunks so
that you didn't feel that it wasone big number that you got hit
with, and I think bill shock iswhat Spotify is trying to avoid
, which is oh my God, my bill isnow $30 a month, or $35 a month
for my subscription.
Can I break it into smallercomponents where, oh, I've just

(37:13):
bought an audio book, but that'snot part of your subscription.
Oh, I've just bought thisticket no, not still part of
your subscription.
It's not the overall bill fromSpotify, and I think, if we are
seeing households, you know,willing to pay more for digital
content, what does this mean foradvertising?
You're the one who observedthis with Mayor Prohovnik which

(37:35):
is, if people are paying tosubscribe and have no ads and I
hardly see ads, by the way thenwho are the advertisers actually
reaching?
Are they reaching the peoplewho can't afford or do not wish
to have a subscription, and arethose people the ones they
really want to reach?
And therefore it seems like aweird dichotomy I'm paying for

(37:58):
not to have ads, but you'repaying for your ad to reach
people who may not be able toafford your product.

Yeah yeah, it is a weird one and, by the way, if
you look at Amazon Prime in theUS, which has a ad funded
option, I think they're all adfunded now, aren't they?
Amazon Prime?
I think you have to have ads onall of that.

Sam Sethi (38:19):
No, you pay extra to now not get ads have to have ads
on all of that.

No, you pay extra to now not get ads.
Oh, you pay extra to get rid ofthe ads.
Oh well, there you go.
So the version with the adslaunched with not very many ads
at all, and, very quietly, overthe last couple of months,
they've doubled the amount ofads that are on there, which I
think says quite a lot.
But yeah, I mean, from my pointof view, just seeing the amount
of money spent on audio is good.

(38:47):
It should be good data for truefans to show that people will
spend money in that way, andgood data for those of us who
ask for money as well.
If you're a fan of this show,you should become one of our
power supporters.
We've got 19 at the moment.
Weeklypodnewsnet is where to go, armed with your credit card.

(39:08):
The internet's money.

Sam Sethi (39:09):
So we know there's a ceiling to your subscription.
We know that the householdpurses are going to not be
infinitely stretched.
I mean, okay, if you're superrich, $20 or $30 or $50 makes no
difference, but we're lookingat the average.
So I think there is a point andI've seen the trend with my own
children where they will do apay-as-you-go.

(39:31):
So if I watch the behavior ofmy 20-year-olds, they will
subscribe to Netflix for aseries and then unsubscribe.
They will subscribe toParamount and then unsubscribe,
so that subscribe to Paramountand then unsubscribe, so that
what they're doing is they'rethey're fundamentally trying to
build a pay as you watch modelrather than a pay, and then when

(39:51):
I there's nothing to watch, I'mstill paying and my
subscriptions rolling over.
So they're learning becausethey have limited funds.
The best way of doing it is apay-as-you-go model and I think
the way that podcasting 2.0 istrying to build a new
monetization model which isstreaming based.

(40:12):
So I want to stream an episodeand I only want to pay for what
I consume, which goes back tolisten time as well.
I think they all conflatetogether how much did I listen?
That's what I'm willing to payfor and that's what I want to
actually show as my consumption,as opposed to I pay in advance

(40:32):
for everything or I pay for thefull episode.
I think we're seeing a slightchange again, I think because
the window or the ceiling sorry,I should say for payments will
come to a point where people sayI can't afford it anymore, so
I'll just pay for what I consume.

Yeah, no, indeed , indeed.
I find it fascinating and,interestingly, youtube put up
their money.
We use YouTube for music inthis household and they have
just put up their bill and itsays I think from memory it says
$29, which is Australiandollars $29 a month now, but it

(41:12):
didn't say how much we werepaying.
So I had to go back and findout how much we were paying and
I thought, well, that's a bit ofa cheeky thing anyway, but yeah
, but I did look at that and Ithought, well, I'm not really
going to cancel it because weuse it so much.
We use both the music thing somuch, but also YouTube itself.

(41:33):
So, yeah, so it was aninteresting one.
Anyway, let's move on to the UK.
You must be very excited.
You're a big fan of the NewsAgents a big news show from
Global.
There's another agents showcoming from them, isn't there?

Sam Sethi (41:53):
Yeah, but I'm not so excited.
The Crime Agents the realstories of a career
investigating the criminalunderworld and from a life at
the top of policing and workingat the heart of the security
services.
The Crime Agents Listen onGlobal Player or wherever you
get your podcasts.
Yeah, I won't be subscribing tothis one, I'm sad to say, but I

(42:14):
also think you know this is thefourth Agents podcast.
Yes, it feels like the guysover at Global global have gone.
Everything's going to be calledsomething, agent and and the
gold hanger guys have gone.
Yes, everything's going to becalled.

The rest is, it feels so is persiphonica going
to come up with their monikerfor every show um, well, yeah, I
, because I'm surprised thatpersiphonica haven't done that,
because it's obvious brandextension stuff to link the news
agents, the sports agents, thenews agents USA actually the
news agents Investigates, whichis one that I forgot about and

(42:53):
the crime agents all together.
I think it's genius.
Actually, I think it's a veryclever thing to do.
Similarly, the rest is, as youso rightly say, I think short
term it's very clever.

Sam Sethi (43:06):
I think long term, you will have blindness to the
name because you'll be going oh,which one of those agents was
it?
I can't remember.
I know it's an agent show, Ican't remember which one.
And I think you'll lose thevalue of the uniqueness of the
brand.
Um, once you get 20 shows right.

(43:27):
Um, one of the things that youknow.
Uh, you were not shocked Ithink that's the wrong word but
surprised when I said I'mchanging pod fans to true fans,
and it was because I waslistening to Adam Curry and Dave
Jones talk about oh, it's onPodfriend, podcast, guru,
podverse, Podfans, podthis, ohmy God, no, no, no, no, no,

(43:48):
because the listeners tuned out.
All they heard was Pod,something.
They can't remember us from theothers, and I thought Fountain
just stood out as a you know, oh, and there's Fountain, oh, okay
.

I'll remember Fountain, because that sounds
different to all the others.

Neal Mohan (44:10):
Yes, correct, correct.

No, I think that makes uh, I think that makes a
bit of sense.
I mean, you could have alwayschanged your name to fansley, no
, okay.
One other thing going on aroundthe world is canada.
Um, I I never really fullyunderstand Canada, but Just
above North America, 51st state,yes, just so you know.
Yes, I'm looking forward togoing there.
I can't say anything bad abouteither the US or indeed Canada

(44:35):
until You've left September, yes, and then I'll let rip.
But there is a moment going onin Canada, so Canadian
broadcasting and Canadian musicgets a lot of funding from the
Canadian government like loadsand loads and loads from the
federal government in Canada.

(44:56):
Podcasting has never got any ofthat and there is a point now
where many of the big Canadianpodcasters have gone.
You know what?
We deserve some of that money,and right now we are a bit
concerned that all you'll get onpodcast platforms is going to
be US stuff, because that's whatis really driving that

(45:19):
particular market.
There's a lot of US content andall of the Canadian content is
going to go away.
So please could we have some ofthat money, and I think that
they've certainly got anargument.
If there is money going intobroadcasting and is going into
the music industry, I think thatthere should be money going
into the podcast industry.

(45:40):
You can argue whether or notthere should be money from the
government going into thoseindustries, but if there is,
then I think that podcastingshould certainly exist there as
well.
So you can read the open letterand if you are a Canadian
podcaster, you can even signthat open letter in the story
that we covered yesterday in thePod News newsletter the story

(46:02):
that we covered yesterday in thepod news newsletter.

Sam Sethi (46:09):
Well, look, we had Chloe Straw on from UK Audio
talking about how she lobbiesthe UK government for more money
, right, and gets a few pennieshere or there.
That was contrasted when Iinterviewed her with the Indian
government.
That put $1 billion, not 1billion rupees, $1 billion into
podcasting.
And I think you look atsomething like Canada, you know

(46:29):
it's.
It's, yes, predominantlyEnglish speaking.
I know there'll be a lot ofFrench speaking as well, but
predominantly English speakingpodcasts.
If they don't invest into it,they will get the
Americanization of their culture, which I think is one thing
that they should worry about.
I think they need to investlike they would in film, tv.
I mean, I found out this weird,fascinating fact the other day

(46:52):
that the cia has a budget for no, the pentagon has a budget for
films in the usa.
So top gun was paid for mainlyby the USA.
So Top Gun was paid for mainlyby the US Pentagon.

Ah, there you go .

Sam Sethi (47:05):
And it's that what it is.
It's cultural appropriation,right.
What you're seeing there isinvestment into the mediums that
they want that will supporttheir own culture.
I think you're going to seeCanada lose out if they don't
start putting more money intothis sector.

No, I agree.
So you know numbers in that.
In that stats are things likeCanadian podcasts make up just
43% of listening to podcasts inCanada and that number has
stagnated in recent years, andyou know.
So from that point of view it'syou know, it's bad.
On the other side you canobviously turn around and say

(47:46):
government really has nobusiness in investing in the
creative arts at all, does itreally?
So you know there's definitelya conversation to have.
But certainly if they'respending money on lots of other
parts of the cultural andcreative industries, then
podcasting should be part ofthat.

(48:07):
So you can certainly see that.

Sam Sethi (48:11):
Let's whiz on Jobs.
James who's?

moving and grooving Jobs.
Yes, there's lots of movementat Realm, who have appointed
Sarah Van Mosel as the newestmember of its board of directors
, have appointed Sarah Van Moselas the newest member of its
board of directors.
She, of course, has been atSiriusXM and they've got some
more advisors as well.
We were talking aboutGoldhanger a little bit ago.
Goldhanger now has a chiefrevenue officer.

(48:34):
It's never had one of thosebefore.
Interestingly, it is someonewho joins from Warner Music
Group, universal Pictures andhis own company called
Instrumental.
It's a man called Conrad Withy,not a podcast person, but he is
joining as chief revenueofficer and really sort of

(48:57):
pushing that.
So that's, that's aninteresting thing, pushing that,
so that's an interesting thing.
Also interesting maybe is KamalAhmed, who used to work at the
BBC as their economicscorrespondent, then, after a
little quiet time, went to workat the Daily Telegraph, which is
a right-leaning newspaper inthe UK, newspaper in the UK,

(49:25):
where he was director of audioand hosted the Daily Tea, which
is their daily show.
Anyway, he has lasted in thatjob for exactly a year and he
has now left that position.
He's still going to write acolumn.
He's still going to quote landbig interviews, going to write a
column.
He's still going to quote landbig interviews, but he's
stepping aside in terms of that.

(49:46):
So interesting moves andgrooves in terms of the job
market.

Sam Sethi (49:51):
Now another week passes, you haven't got another
award, have you?
Or what other awards are?

out there.
Well, there have been a few.
For example, the winners of the2025 Women Podcasters Awards
were announced Really smart.
If you want to see a veryslickly edited video of a
virtual awards ceremony, thenyou should definitely take a
peek at this.

(50:17):
You'll find it linked from thePod News newsletter.
You'll find it linked from thePod News newsletter.
The event's coming back inNovember.
I very much enjoyed getting upat half past five in the morning
to give out two of the awards,so that was fun.
Other awards are the NewZealand Podcast Awards, back for
a fifth year, which is beingsponsored by Acast, who are

(50:37):
giving free advertising to thepodcasts that win the Podcast
Awards.
2025 Listener's Choice Award isnow open for public voting.
You could vote for this show ifyou wanted to, although I'm not
entirely convinced that we willget anywhere, but anyway.
Last year's winner was Help.
I Sexted my Boss from AudioAlways, so congratulations to

(50:58):
them.
But who knows who's going towin this time?
Who says sex doesn't sell right?
Who says?
Who says that exactly?
And JAR Audio has announced thewinner of its 2025 Emerging
Women in Podcasting PilotCompetition.
Libby Lybird is her name.
She did a stage show about 10years or so ago called

(51:21):
Motherhood, which takes a lookat the stigma surrounding single
mothers, and she will be doingthat in podcast form in the
coming months.
Jar Audio's chief creativeofficer, jen Moss, who we should
have on.
She says that Libby is a proudsingle mum with a story to tell.

(51:43):
What's not to like, indeed.
And of course, events coming upPodcast Movement 2025 in August
in Dallas.
Radio Days Asia in September inIndonesia.
Pod Summit YYC in Calgary inAlberta in September.
And there is one more as well.
It's a Mark Ronick podcastconference.

(52:05):
It's called the EmpoweredPodcasting Conference and that
is late September at the HyattCentric Hotel in Uptown
Charlotte, north Carolina.
What's the difference betweenUptown and Downtown?

Sam Sethi (52:20):
Downtown's where the main place is.
Isn't it Generally where thecentre is and uptown is outside?
I don't know.

Ask.

Sam Sethi (52:29):
Billy Joel.
He knows uptown girl, he'llknow what it means.

Yeah, she's been living in a downtown world
Anyway.
Yes, so that's happening aswell.
There are various ways ofsaving money for that if you are
a PodNews newsletter subscriber.

Sam Sethi (52:45):
Now just a couple of stories that I saw on PodNews
Daily.
That don't sort of fit into astory as such, but I thought
they were interesting assomething that people might want
to go and look at themselves.
Local podcasting could be thenext big leap for the industry,
says Matthew Passy.
He was writing, actually, anarticle for Pod News Daily.

(53:06):
What does he mean?
That local podcasting could bethe next big leap?

Well, one of the things he says is your
neighbourhood pizza shop isn'tsponsoring the daily, but they
would support a show withlisteners in their delivery zone
, which is absolutely right,although I think, arguably, you
could say that they could stilladvertise in the daily thanks to
the magic of dynamicallyinserted audio.
But yes, he very much sees, asindeed Adam Curry does, local

(53:36):
being a very important communityto serve for podcasting.
I mean, all of podcasting iscommunity based, all of
podcasting is broadcasting to acommunity, but in this
particular case, he sees thatlocal podcasting is certainly
something which isn't beingproperly utilised as yet.
Part of that might be thepodcast location tag, who knows?

(53:59):
But yeah, so it's a goodarticle to read from that, and I
think it's notable that he'stalking about the podcast
location tag, and he is also, Ithink he's chief evangelist for
Lebsyn, isn't he?
So it'd be interesting to marryboth of those things up.
I mean, you've been there, donethat and got the t-shirts,

(54:19):
haven't you?
Both of those things up, I mean, you've been there, done that
and got the t-shirts, haven'tyou?

Sam Sethi (54:22):
Well, been there, done that, failed and got the
t-shirt.
Yeah, because you know.
Yes, when I had River Radio,the goal was for hyperlocal
radio.
The live item tag didn't exist,so we couldn't do podcast apps
as a means of distribution,which is why I go back to saying

(54:43):
that I think podcasting is thenew radio, because the content
is irrelevant of thedistribution right.
So if I produce content and howI distribute it, whether it's
over DAB FM or through the liveitem tag or an Alexa or web,
that's the distribution.
People didn't quite get it.
I was a bit too early.

(55:03):
We're talking five years ago.
I think it's the right thing todo.
I think radio and or localpodcasting, whatever you want to
call it, is the way that localbusinesses should reach a
hyper-local community and peopleare looking for it.
It poses the trend that we saidearlier of national radio
stations merging local radio in,and I think that leaves a

(55:27):
vacuum for someone to go into it, which is what I think Adam
Curry is trying to do now withthe Godcaster, but I think
others can also do that.
I think hyperlocal radio,podcasting, whatever is the best
way, and I think if we can getadvertising, this is the other
thing that you will have moreknowledge than I will, James.
The cost of producing a qualityad that you could slide in to

(55:50):
that local podcast is going tobe the issue, because if you're
doing a local podcast and you'repost-reading it, great, no
problem at all.
But if you're being asked toproduce a voiceovered slickish
radio style ad, then the cost ofa person, the time to edit etc

(56:10):
is just going to be too high.
I wished wondercraft had beenaround when I was doing river
radio, because I think we couldhave done yeah, absolutely, and
the ads that way is the answerthere?

ai help write them.
Ai can certainly help recordthem as well.
There's a bunch of differenttools out there.
One of them is called Spec AI,which you know essentially.
You write in the name of theproduct and you know roughly
what it is that you'd like it tosay about that particular thing

(56:43):
, and it will go off and make anad for you.
So yeah, absolutely.
If you can bring the cost ofthat right down and make that
scalable, then that certainlyworks.

Sam Sethi (56:56):
Now, the other story that was floating around was our
friend Justin Jackson, theco-founder of Transistor.
He was on a video from theNathan Barry Show talking about
open standards.
Did you see it?

I haven't had a chance yet using my own personal
brand.
Justin is a very clever man.
He's very, you know, switchedon in terms of a lot of things
and does a very good interview.

(57:29):
It's worth watching the entirething, but halfway through this
he talks about the fact that,for creators and for independent
businesses, open standards arethe thing that actually makes
those businesses work, the factthat we have open standards.
We have open standards in termsof video encoding, obviously,

(57:50):
we have open standards in termsof RSS feeds.
We have open standards in termsof so much of this stuff, and
the open standards are thethings that make everything work
.
Um, he says, and I I think hehe is absolutely right.
So it's a good, um, it's goodvery long uh interview, uh,
which I believe he did in um, uh, in chicago, uh, while podcast

(58:16):
movement evolutions was going on, um, so there's a thing, but
anyway, it's uh certainlyworthwhile having a watch.
It came out over the weekend.

Sam Sethi (58:26):
And the last thing I just wanted to get your thoughts
really.
Friend of the show, russellHarraway, ceo of Pod2, came up
with an idea which was do weneed a Shazam for podcasting?
The background to that is he'sbuilding a music app as well,
which would then be his way ofensuring that he could then find

(58:48):
whether people were illegallyusing the music content that he
was helping distribute.
But I actually said to Russellwhat would be smarter instead of
tracking music, because Shazamdoes that already.
So why?
Why create?
You know, why reinvent thewheel.
But um, we talk about discoverynow.
I think six months ago we hadthis idea of using the

(59:12):
transcript to go and say oh, itmentioned James Cridland in that
transcript.
He was a guest.
Okay, tag that as guest guest.
Then he was a host on this show.
Okay, tag him as host.
And now somehow, through somesort of podcast graph, we could
see James's collective voice,his hosted shows and his guest

(59:33):
shows.
Great, if I like James Cridland, I can now click on this list
and I can get him on x show or yshow.
That that seemed like a lot ofwork, certainly a lot of cost
and a lot of time to do that,because not everyone can afford
to transcribe every episode.
So one other idea was and Idon't know if it'll ever work
was to find a way to fingerprintthe voice in the audio.

(59:54):
So Buzzsprout, our host andsponsor they allow us to
transcribe this show and thenthey pop up a screen which says
here's a sample of the voices wehear in this audio.
Can you tell us who they are?
Because AI can't quite do thatyet.
So we then, as humans, candetect that voice quickly, label

(01:00:17):
it with the name and thenthat's how you get the names and
the transcript.
But if we could fingerprintthat through some AI I don't
know if Wondercraft could dothat or others like Eleven Labs
Could you then be listening to ashow and then suddenly I hear I
don't know you, james.
Let's say you're on the BBC'smedia show, and suddenly I go oh

(01:00:40):
, he said something really smart, shazam that.
Who was that guest?
Oh, that's James Gridland.
Oh great, he sounded veryintelligent.
Wonder what else he does?
Click bang and I now get a fulllist of everything else you do.

James Cridland (01:00:55):
I don't know, that was the thought process.
Yeah, it's a good thoughtprocess.
I've been playing with apodcast app called Metacast
which is essentially built to doquite a lot of that, in terms
of doing transcripts ofeverything and then producing
summaries of everything and thenworking out exactly.
You know the big, you know thebig points that each guest was

(01:01:17):
making and all of that, so youcould see that there might be
some of that in there as well.
I mean, you know, on the otherside, I suppose you know, we're
always looking at this stuff andgoing, well, what could we do
with technology?
But on the other side, well,what could we do if people just

(01:01:37):
did their transcripts properly?
Because if people did theirtranscripts properly, then we
would already have this kind ofinformation.
It's very clear who is talkingat one particular time.
You know, it's very clear whois talking at one particular
time.
But yeah, it's an interestingidea, more of which, I'm sure,
is to come.
The Tech Stuff on the Pod NewsWeekly Review.

(01:01:59):
Yes, it's the stuff you'll findevery Monday in the Pod News
newsletter.
Here's where Sam talkstechnology.
Oh, I've just talked aboutMetacast Brilliant you have.
Yes, yes.

Sam Sethi (01:02:12):
Well, let's keep talking about them.
Yes, I really should get theirceo on this show, but anyway, um
, they have come out withprivate paid feeds as a new
feature now.
I think this is great.
I think, uh, pocketcast does it, um, I'm sure other apps do it
as well.
It's a way of getting yourPatreon or memberful exclusive

(01:02:35):
content into your favouritepodcast app.
So Metacast have gone and donethat.
They've taken it a littlefurther.
They've also added transcripts,summaries, chapters, bookmarks
to private podcasts, just likethe ones they do for public.
So that seems like a very nicefeature.

Yes, it does look very cool.
It does look very smart.
He's busy working out, ofcourse, ilya, who runs it, is
busy working out, of course, howmuch he can afford to actually
run the AI, of course, becausethat comes with costs.
But, yeah, I've got access toit and it looks quite smart.

(01:03:18):
So, yeah, I think it would beworthwhile having a chat.
What I find interesting is thathe is not necessarily using
very much of the podcasting 2.0stuff, so he's starting from the
other end and seeing what hecan build is not necessarily
using very much of thepodcasting 2.0 stuff, so he's
starting from the other end andseeing what he can build.
You know essentially, but yeah,you know something that

(01:03:39):
automatically builds chaptersand summaries and transcripts
and all of that.
It's a pretty, pretty smartthing.

Sam Sethi (01:03:46):
But if he's not using podcasting 2.0, is he just not?
He's just reinventing the wheel.
It's a look.
You said it five minutesearlier.
Right, in the long run, openwins, right, open standards win.
So it's the tortoise versus thehare, right?
Yes, he can be the tortoise,sorry, he can be the hare,
running off doing his own thing,a bit like Spotify, but

(01:04:07):
eventually the hag gets caughtup by the tortoise.

Yeah, I think there's two sides to it.
I think, yes, he is doing hisown thing, but partially he's
doing his own thing because someof the big shows still don't
support their own transcriptsyet and so it's easier for him
just to produce a transcriptthat he knows is going to work
and blah, blah, blah and youknow, and that should all work

(01:04:34):
for every single show ratherthan for having a look at the
small percentage of shows whichare producing a transcript and
you know sticking those in.
So I guess he is doing it.
You know the way of OK, I'mgoing to do this for every
single show out there.
But what he said to me is thathe will start using creator

(01:04:56):
produced transcripts if they'regood enough quality, because
obviously that is then going tosave him money in terms of the
transcription.
Probably won't save him money,to be honest, in terms of the
summaries, in terms of thechapter points.
So actually, in terms of anactual saving, it's probably not
going to make a big differenceto him.
But yeah, but I, you know it'san interesting way around it.

(01:05:19):
It's one of the reasons why Ilike the way that Pocket Casts
has done Podroll.
In that Pocket Casts it's there, if it exists in the feed.
But if it doesn't exist in thefeed, then there is this very
nice graceful fallback to showsthat it's going to recommend
instead, and I think that that'sa really clever way of doing

(01:05:41):
this kind of stuff.
So perhaps that's what theMetacast folk are doing.
We should get Ilya on.
I have emailed his emailaddress to you, Okay excellent.

Sam Sethi (01:05:55):
I do think, though, we are teasing out Come on,
oscar, hurry up and get on withit.
We are teasing out, jeez,louise.
We are teasing out that thereis a proposed alternative.
It doesn't mean that that'sgoing to be a winning
alternative.
I mean, look, no one knowsright, but there's a technology

(01:06:16):
that we've been muting calledSecure RSS, which allows you to
have both premium and freemiumcontent in the same feed, and
it's my belief, rightly orwrongly, that I think separate
paywall sites like Patreon andMemberfulful, etc.
Um, add that extra layer ofwork.
We talked about video adding anextra layer of work.

(01:06:37):
I personally believe that ifyou, james, had to take this
show, let's say, uh, and put itout into buzzsprout, and then
take this show and then put itinto patreon, yeah, and then.
Then we would say to ouraudience here oh, by the way,
you can get us on all the openapps, but, by the way, if you
want this episode, please goover here and go and do

(01:06:58):
something else and createanother account and log in and
pay us.
I just think this two splitaudience paywall strategy has
short-term value, not long-term.
Um, longevity, uh, I think it.
Um, it will be subsumed into asingle feed.
That's my belief.
Yeah, I, and I look forward totalking about it in more detail.

No, and I certainly agree with that, and I
think one of the thingsinterestingly, that buzzbrow,
our sponsor, does is it doesallow you to do those paid
episodes if you want to, in thesame Buzzsprout interface that
you're used to.
But on the other side it stillmeans that a listener has to get

(01:07:43):
the special paid feed.
So it's fixed half of it butnot the other half.
So perhaps this secure RSS,which could work alongside it,
might work a little bit better.
We will talk more on that, I'msure, as we move forward.
So after we talk about one appwhich has launched new stuff,

(01:08:05):
another app has closed down andit's the fiction podcast app,
apollo.

Sam Sethi (01:08:09):
Another app has closed down and it's the fiction
podcast app, apollo.
I think you know it was a greatidea to focus on a narrow niche
, which was well, it's not thatnarrow, it's actually one of the
biggest categories.
But clearly people don't wantto have multiple apps for
vertical content.

Either that or the amount of listeners to
fiction podcasts are quite lowin comparison to other shows, so
I suppose you could look at iton that side of it as well.
I suppose there are twoco-founders.
One of them is called AJ.
I've reached out to AJ becauseI would love to learn a little
bit more of this, but all theysaid in the email is we're

(01:08:50):
incredibly proud of what wecreated, because particularly
fiction podcasting needs aslightly different interface.
You know, in terms of how youlisten, we're incredibly proud
of what we've created, but wehaven't been able to grow the
listener base enough to sustainthe service long term, to grow

(01:09:11):
the listener base enough tosustain the service long term.
You could argue, of course, thatstreaming sats could have fixed
all of that, and had streamingsats been a big enough thing for
the fiction podcast communityby now, then we might be in a
position where Apollo didn'thave to close down.
I wonder what happens to thecode base, because it was very
nice, and the design andeverything else.

(01:09:33):
I wonder what happens to all ofthat code and whether or not
there is something there toactually take that forward again
.
But yeah, it's a sad day whenyou see a podcast app.
Close down certainly.

Sam Sethi (01:09:49):
So, james, you mentioned Pocket Casts and you
mentioned the pod role.
It's quite interesting.
Now People are starting to lookat how many podcasts are
including a pod role, and thenthey're beginning to look at
what podcasts are includedinside those pod roles as well.

Yes, I think a pod role is really interesting.
It's quite difficult to do theresearch on who's linking to
what, because the only waycurrently of doing that is to
download the entire podcastindex and then to check every
single RSS feed all four pointsomething million of them to see
what pod roles people arelinking to, what podcasts people

(01:10:30):
are linking to.
So that's quite hard, but atleast the PodNews website has a
sample of about 1.2 millionpodcasts.
They're mostly the bigger ones,they're the ones that people
have searched for and found inthere, and so I thought well,
wouldn't it be interesting fromthat sample to find out who the

(01:10:51):
most recommended podcasts bycreators are?
So I pulled that informationout.
And the number one as I'm sureour sponsor will be delighted to
know, the number one mostrecommended podcast out there is
Buzzcast Hurrah, which is theofficial podcast of Buzzsprout,

(01:11:16):
our sponsor, recommended by allmanner of different people,
including us, including the latebloomer actor, including
podcasting made simple from AlexSanfilippo and various other
shows in there as well.
So just an interesting page.
If you want to go and see itpodnewsnet slash podcasts, slash

(01:11:39):
recommendations and you can seethat it's updated.
Well, it says continuouslyupdated.
It probably is continuous rightnow.
Probably shouldn't be in thefuture, but still.
But that's where we are.
But yeah, just some interestinginformation in there that may
or may not be handy as we tryand understand how this feature

(01:11:59):
is being used.

Sam Sethi (01:12:02):
Finally, just whizzing up to Scotland, Alitude
now supports more podcasting2.0 features.
What are they?

doing yes, so they are supporting the funding
tag.
That's the big one that theyare supporting, which is
excellent to see.
So, thank you, alitu, for doingthat.
They're, of course, a podcastmaker tool, so if you're making
a show, then you can host withAlitu and you can make the
entire show with Alitu as well,so that's very cool.
They're also supporting thelicense tag, the text fields tag

(01:12:34):
and the location tag, althoughit sounds as if they're not
doing the location tag correctly, but anyway, we'll get back to
that once I've fixed that withthem.
But yes, really good to seeAlitu pushing more Podcasting
2.0 features.
The funding tag is the big oneand I think that's the one that
we should really push for morepeople to get involved with.

Jingle (01:12:57):
Boostergram, boostergram , boostergram, super, super
comments, zaps, fan mail, fanmail, super chats and email.
Our favourite time of the week,it's the Pod News Weekly Review
Inbox.

Inbox yeah, so many different ways to get in
touch with us.
Fan mail by using the link inour show notes, super comments
on True Fans or boostseverywhere else, or email, and
we share any money that we makebetween us.
So thank you for all of those.
We've got a bunch of boosts andsuper comments, haven't we
Including some from the UglyQuacking Duck?

Sam Sethi (01:13:33):
Yes, Bruce himself 2222Sats, he says welcome back,
sam.
Thank you, bruce.
How long did the battery laston the electric bike before it
needed charging?
Well, if I stayed out of turbomode it would have gone longer,
but it lasted as long as Ineeded, which was the full day,
so I didn't have to push um.
Those hills around the lakeswere pretty high.

So an electric bike with alcohol, yeah, needed
it as much as I could get yes, Imean, obviously it would have
been illegal to have drivenunder the influence, even on an
electric bike.
So, um, I'm sure I'm sure thatyou don't mean that.

Sam Sethi (01:14:11):
I was spitting the wine out.
It's fine.
Yes, yes, Honestly, honestly.

Ossifer yes, he says thanks for the episode.
It's good to be able to listento you.
Both 73s and also another rowof ducks fell behind on
listening.
Got to the episode with JohnJohn McDermott, who of course,
did it while you were out onyour bike.
Interesting episode.
Thanks for what you do Well.
Thank you, Bruce, it's verykind.

(01:14:36):
Every show that I'm listeningto right now I hear a row of
ducks from the ugly quackingduck.
So it's always nice to hearthat.
And thank you for your supportfor all of podcasting.

Sam Sethi (01:14:48):
One, two, three, four sats from Claire Waite-Brown,
who's one of our powersupporters.
I won't be matching Silas'smega boost amount, just a part
of it.
I too, had fun hanging out withhim and Elias increasing the
bar bill for pod news.
Yeah, thanks everyone.
And beyond the rest, she spentthe rest of the time at the
London podcast show with them aswell.
So, yes, yes, that was a megaboost indeed.

Yes indeed, and the man himself, silas, on Linux
, has sent a bunch of boosts.
He sent $130 with SATs insteadof a Visa card.
He's still very upset about thefact that I say Visa card and
MasterCard is the internet'smoney, because it is Show me
where he hurt you on the umbral.

(01:15:31):
But then it sends another one.
Massively awkward feelingmoment Having just sent another
visa joke boost, only to nowhear you read and talk about the
other boost I sent aboutlowering fees not being enough.
Let me be an idiot aboutnon-big corpo payment systems.
And then one final one idiotabout non-big corpo payment

(01:15:53):
systems.
And then one final one.
I was talking about homeassistance and saying that it's
not really very good.
It's a bit of a mess, and Ithink I said it's just not great
.
Anyway, silas said it'sprobably the most infuriating
thing James has ever said Wow,wow, okay, there you go.

Sam Sethi (01:16:14):
I'll tell you now over three years no, it's not.
Yes.

Gosh, no, exactly, exactly so.
Thank you, silas for that.
3,000 sats in all, which isgood of you, and Dave sent us 10
sats.
I just thought I'd mention it.
I think he's a true fan.
I don't think he knows a truefan.

Sam Sethi (01:16:29):
I don't think he knows he did it.
I don't think he knows he didit Really Okay.
No, I think he's heartedsomething and of course, we
attach a small micro payment to.

Well, if he's hearted something, it should say
something like Dave heartedyour show.
It did afterwards.

Sam Sethi (01:16:46):
It did afterwards, but I'm not sure he knew that he
would do it in the beginning.
You know we do explain it, butyou know not everyone.
I have found out people don'tread, no people absolutely don't
read.

Yes, yes, they click things and then ask
afterwards why did that happen?

Sam Sethi (01:17:00):
Well, if you read the thing before, we would have
told you yes, correct?

But anyway, dave , thank you for hearting us.
That means we get 10 sats,which is, if we get lots of
those, then we can afford a beer.
So that's kind of you.
The power supporters are allexcellent.
There are 19 of them, thenoteworthy 19.

Sam Sethi (01:17:20):
And they include I still think naughty and nice,
but anyway.

And they include Star Tempest, james Burt, jim
James and Rachel Corbett.
Thank you all so much for yourkind support.
We really appreciate it If youwould like to become a power
supporter or indeed support usin any way.
If you're getting value fromwhat we do, then
weeklypodnewsnet is how you canlearn much more about how to do

(01:17:47):
that.
So what's happened for you thisweek, sam?

Sam Sethi (01:17:52):
Well, a little milestone we have successfully
submitted our native iOS andAndroid apps for TrueFans, so
they're under review.

Yes, Under review.
I wonder what both Apple andGoogle are going to think about
the wallets and the payments andall of that.

Sam Sethi (01:18:18):
No, that's been fine.
So I'll tell you what we had.
It was really fun, okay.
So the first response was whatare SATs?
Well, I went back and saidthey're tokens of micro payments
, yada, yada, oh great, noproblem at all.
Then that disappeared as anissue, okay, the other issue
that came I'm so happy, I wasthinking shit here we go yeah
yeah, keep keep it low level,sam, don't raise the bar.

(01:18:39):
Um.
And then the other one was um,where are you getting all your
content from?
So I had to explain how applepodcasts worked and what
brilliant yes and and rss, andthen show links to both
directories and how the wholepodcasting system works, really.
Um, at which point they wentyes, that's fine as well.
Um, so the only stumbling blockis um.

(01:19:00):
There's stupidly a checkboxthat I must have hit by mistake
or it's defaulted, I don't knowthat says we require camera
access, which we don't.
So we've got to remove that andresubmit.
So, fingers crossed, I'mhopeful that we will be able to
get the app into the App.

Store this week.
Very good.
Well, that'll be exciting,won't it?
I wonder who will be first.
Will it be Google or will it beApple?

Sam Sethi (01:19:26):
Well, the other thing is, I'll have no excuse now.
Um, I can't say, because whenwe get our app store, we'll be,
we'll be doing better.
So now, when we have them, Ihave no excuses anymore, that
it's just a pwa.
So, yes, now it's back to me ifwe don't succeed.

Yes, no, anyway well, I, I have, I have it on my
phone, it is working on, uh, Ion ios 26 or whatever this thing
is, and, yes, and it's alllooking very spiffy.
So, yes, it'll be nice to seeit going live.

Sam Sethi (01:20:00):
We've also submitted for review Apple TV and Fire TV.
So we did the Fire TV one a fewmonths ago actually, but we
made the changes, so hopefullywe'll be on those, given that
allegedly YouTube now is wheremost people consume on a big TV,
let's see if that has any.
And then you mentioned earlierCarPlay.

(01:20:20):
That's just an extra separateconfiguration, so we will do
CarPlay soon.

Very nice.
You're doing a show with ClaireWake Brown, which I think you
used to do a show called FanZone.
You're now doing a show calledsomething else.

Sam Sethi (01:20:37):
No, so let me try and clarify.
Yes, they're both with ClaireWake Brown.
Claire has been great.
She did the Podcasting 2.0 inPractice show, which helps if
you haven't heard that show.
If you want to learn aboutpodcasting 2.0, I see most
people who listen to our showare pretty savvy, but it's great
for newbies.
Um fan zone was an internaltrue fan show about how to use

(01:21:01):
true fans.
It's not it's not designed foranyone else.
So you get paid to listen tosmall three minute episodes.
You get sats in your walletevery time you listen.
That's it, simple job.
But creators was something thatClaire and I talked about,
which was I love doing this show, but it is sometimes very

(01:21:24):
technical my fault, normally andso it doesn't, you know, reach
out to a massive audience.
It reaches out to an audiencethat is more geeky, more
interested in the nuts and boltsof podcasting and the business
of podcasting.
But the independent creators,those people who just want to
know, uh, about how to improvetheir show, and they want to be

(01:21:46):
highlighted and spotlighted.
So, yes, the IndependentPodcast Awards, people like
those podcasts are the type ofguests we will have on.
So, yeah, creators from TrueFans is aimed at independent
podcast creators.

Well, very good, and you can find it wherever
you get your podcasts, butprobably in True Fans is
probably best.
And the final thing on the shownotes here says I am playing
way too much paddle.
It's very addictive.
What, what, what, what, what isthis?

Sam Sethi (01:22:16):
Uh, it hasn't reached you yet it will.
It's very addictive.
Paddle is a game that came outof somewhere between Spain and
Mexico and it's a combination ofshort form tennis like
pickleball, um and squash, andso you've got a, an enclosed
court with a back wall, a glassback wall, um, shorter rackets,

(01:22:37):
tennis ball like, but it's notas heavy as a tennis ball, but
it is the same size.
Um, four of you play on a court.
It's like doubles tennis, butwith a, and it's very, very
addictive.
I'm playing, probably too much.
According to my wife, I'mplaying too much.
It's about four times a week atthe moment.
Gosh, well, that sounds likeexercise.

(01:23:04):
Paddle is worth about $2 billiona year and is growing fast.
25 million active players yeah,the LTA, the Lawn Tennis
Association in the UK, are very,very worried.
Um, a lovely anecdotal storywas um.
There's a massive london uhtennis center and it's got 35
tennis courts and they've built10 paddle courts in the same
location.
There was a queue to get on thepaddle courts and all the

(01:23:26):
tennis courts bar one was empty.
Yeah, and that's at the heightof Wimbledon and Queens.
They just for most socialplayers, tennis is too technical
, you know, throwing the ball up, trying to serve, making sure
you get it in the court, havinga rally.
It's just so difficult and youknow the numbers are reflective

(01:23:50):
of that, whereas paddle it'ssuch a social game where the
technical level doesn't requireyou to, you know, have to serve
overhead, you serve underarm andthe court's smaller, and it
just generates much more of anaddictive game.
I think LTA are going tostruggle.

Well, it's all very exciting.
That much I can tell you.
Yes, there is an AustralianPaddle Federation and all kinds
of things.
It's something that I will keepa close eye on, just in case
anybody ever asks me to play andthen I can say no, absolutely
not.

Sam Sethi (01:24:26):
Hang on, James.
Look, you've got your new gymregime.
You must be now super fit andready to go.
I don't think so.

I don't think so .
I had to sit down in the gymtoday.
I said do you know what I'mgoing to have to sit down for a
couple of minutes?
I was looked on pityinglyAnyway.

Sam Sethi (01:24:46):
There was never kick sand in James's face.
That's what I'd say.
He'll have you.
Uh there was never kick sand inJames's face.
That's what I'd say.
He'll have you.
He'll have you so.

James, what's been happening for you this week
?
Well, so, um, I've done acouple of uh, uh, a couple of
entertaining things.
I've been working, um, doing afew um additional pages in the
podcasting 2.org website, whichis now, um, I can, I can, uh,
edit stuff in it.
It's brilliant, so that's good.
So there's a whole page on howPodroll works, and all of that

(01:25:15):
including links on how it workson Buzzsprout, because our
sponsor actually works withPodroll I mean, it was their
idea, really, and so that alllooks very nice.
Podcasting2.org is the place togo.
What else have I been doing?
Podnewsnet slash extras is mynew thing, which I quietly

(01:25:37):
launched earlier on this week.
It's not properly launched yet,but the idea behind it is, if
you've got money that you wouldlike to, you know a coupon or
something that you would like togive.
So, for example, if you want togo to Podcast Movement, you can
save $75 at the moment by usingthe code PODNEWS, and that's

(01:25:58):
lovely, but that does mean thateverybody who searches Google
will find that code and will useit.
So, yes, we'll look very good,but actually, at the end of the
day, it's not that useful forthe person who is selling stuff.
So what we've done is we've putsomething behind a really
simple wall which just basicallychecks that you're a subscriber

(01:26:21):
and then shows you all of thethings that you can get for free
or for cheap and it's atpodnewsnet slash extras and yeah
, it's been interesting buildingthat and interesting just sort
of getting a very MVP up of thatand seeing what happens.
So that's been quite fun to do.

Sam Sethi (01:26:42):
Anything else?
How's your experiment with theMac OS beta coming?

along, yes, so I rather foolishly press the
button to get the new beta oneverything On the watch it's
great.
On the phone, it's fine.
It's great on the phone as well.
To be fair, on the iPad, yes,gosh, everything's changed on
the iPad.
It's quite a learningexperience because all of a

(01:27:08):
sudden you can window.
You know you can do windowingjust like you can on a proper
computer, and so all of that isvery weird on the iPad.
So, yes, and then you've got thenew Mac OS on the Mac and
that's been gosh, quite a thing.
There are.
It works for pretty welleverything.

(01:27:29):
So it works for, obviously, itworks for CleanFeed and things
like that.
It works for browsers, it worksfor Dropbox and all of that
kind of stuff.
There's one thing that I'velearned that it doesn't work
with very well, and that's Mac'sown preview.
You know the thing that readsPDF files and things like that.
It seems to crash every thirdtime you open it for some reason

(01:27:50):
.
So that's very weird, but it'sjust.
It doesn't look very nice.
I think they are nowhere nearready in terms of making it look
pretty, and there are bits thatlook slightly better than other
bits, and it's all a bit messy,so it's been interesting
playing around with it, but I'msure it'll get better and better

(01:28:10):
and better as the developerbetas goes on, and then the
public beta, and then it finallygets released somewhere, in
sort of October, november time.

Sam Sethi (01:28:19):
I mean, I've avoided it this time, against.
You know my normal inclinationfor shiny toys.
But is there a killer featurethat you would say?
Oh yeah, of course, but if youupload it or implement this new
version, this is what you willget.

Yeah, there are two killer features really.
One of them is Spotlight, sothat's the thing that you get if
you do command in the space barand helps you launch programs
or search for files.
On current macOS, on the newmacOS, it enables so much more
stuff because you can runshortcuts through it.

(01:28:57):
You can do lots of other thingswith the new, improved
Spotlight program, so that'sdefinitely a good thing.
The other good thing is theshortcuts itself, in that you
can do many more things withshortcuts, but one of the things

(01:29:18):
that you can do is it plugsinto the Apple Intelligence
stuff on your own laptop, so youcan basically go take the text
that I'm highlighting right nowand give me a summary of that
and then email that to Sam andyou can get a shortcut to do all

(01:29:41):
of that and that will do all ofthat.
So I can imagine that that willbe very good for the power
users, and I think this is onething that Apple have done very
well, certainly in macOS, ishiding stuff like Spotlight and
shortcuts for power users todiscover and use, but not to

(01:30:03):
terrify the normal users, whowill never find it, and I think
that's a pretty clever plan fromtheir point of view.

Sam Sethi (01:30:12):
Still not going to upgrade, then Right.

Yes, but apart from that, there's nothing much
really.
I think there's, you know,there's a journaling app, great
Woo, and a few other things, butyes, that's sort of about where
we are.

Sam Sethi (01:30:27):
So no signs of really Apple intelligence, then?

I mean, you know the Apple intelligence stuff in
it is.
You know there is clearly moreof it.
It's available now to any appout there, not just Apple's apps
, so that's quite nice.
One of the things I'm surprisedby is Apple Podcasts, which
does have a few additionalfeatures, but what they've not

(01:30:53):
done is they've not put ApplePodcasts behind the iCloud
private relay.
I was kind of expecting thatfor this time, but they've not
actually done that.
I mean it would, it would besignificant for podcasting, but
yeah, so with all of thediscussion about privacy, which

(01:31:15):
Apple is actually pretty good at, still not seeing Apple using,
or even having an option forusing, private relay for
podcasting is, I think, quite,quite interesting really.

Sam Sethi (01:31:31):
Well, you know, one developer a year, one feature a
year.
You can't expect everything.

It's more than one developer.

Sam Sethi (01:31:43):
Maybe they have a part-time one as well.
I wonder what you did with yourspare time.
No, I know, that's probablywhere it is.

Anyway, and that's it for this week.
I am away in two weeks, so herenext week, away the week after.
So Sam is going to findsomebody potentially to co-host
with.
I bet it'll be ClareWaight-Brown that would be the
most sensible, but anyway, wewill see.
She's not feeling any pressureat all now and you'll be, and

(01:32:13):
you'll be editing as well.
So, um, we all look forward tothat.
Um, for this week, all of ourpodcast stories taken from the
pod news daily newsletter atpodnewsnet you can support this
show by streaming sats.

Sam Sethi (01:32:25):
You can give us feedback using the buzzsprout
fan mail link in our show notes.
You can send us a super commentor become a power supporter,
like the noteworthy 19.
Oh, I see the edit's been putin.

Yes, at weeklypodnewsnet yes, our music
is from tm studios.
Our voiceover is sheila d, ouraudio is recorded using clean
feed.
We edit with hindenburg.
All of those things work, bythe way, on the new Mac OS, and
we're hosted and sponsored byBuzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.
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(01:32:58):
Subscribe to our newsletter atpodnewsnet.

Neal Mohan (01:33:02):
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