March 31, 2025 • 19 mins
Audio UK is an industry body dedicated to advancing the UK audio sector through innovation, creator support, and driving sustainable growth for podcasts, radio, and audiobooks. We talk with Chloe Straw.
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Announcer (00:00):
The Pub News Weekly Review.
With Buzzsprout Podcast hostingmade easy.
Sam Sethi (00:07):
I'm joined today by Chloe Straw.
Chloe is the CEO of Audio UK.
Chloe hello, how are you?
Chloe Straw (00:14):
Hi, sam, I'm good.
Thanks for having me.
Sam Sethi (00:16):
It's our pleasure.
Now look Audio UK.
Let's crack through that first.
What is Audio UK?
Chloe Straw (00:22):
So we've recently slightly updated our kind of
mission statement and that'svery much because the way that
the audio industry has changedso rapidly over the last kind of
10 years.
So we are an industry body andwe're dedicated to advancing the
audio sector.
So that includes podcasts,radio, audio books, and that's
by fostering innovation,innovation supporting creators
(00:44):
and businesses and drivingsustainable growth.
So we've got about 130 members,we're member funded and I think
we have about 50 in london, 50out of london, across the uk,
and they include businesses likesony, goldhanger, audio always,
persephonica, novel, so a hugerange of amazing different
(01:05):
businesses.
Sam Sethi (01:06):
And when you say all these people are members, what
is it that you are then givingthem Guidance?
Are you giving them regulation?
What is it that Audio UKprovides then?
Chloe Straw (01:18):
So we do a huge amount of different work and it
represents the huge range ofdifferent members that we have.
So within those lists we mighthave one person who is an
audiobook producer, and theychurn out audiobooks every
single week in their home studio.
And then obviously you haveGoalhanger, who are absolutely
massive and have five out of thetop 10 Apple podcasts in the
(01:41):
charts every week.
So in the way that our membershave a lot of different needs,
we provide a lot of differentservices.
So one of the biggest thingsthat we concentrate on is
growing the industry and growing, I guess, the amount of money
coming into the industry for ourmembers.
Our members are largelyindependent, and by that I mean
we don't have the BBC as amember, we don't have Global as
(02:03):
a member, but we do have some ofthe kind of biggest independent
podcast companies, and so Iguess what we do I split into
almost two sides.
There's the tangible benefitsand the less tangible benefits.
In terms of industry growth,one of our main things this year
is we're doing a huge amount ofpolicy work, which doesn't
sound that exciting but isreally really important, of
(02:25):
policy work which doesn't soundthat exciting but is really
really important and the maincrux of that without turning
this into a policy podcast isaround getting audio podcasting
recognised as a creativeindustry.
So there's something atgovernment level called the
Creative Industries Council.
It has a huge amount of inputinto where the money goes for
the creative industries,representation abroad and all
(02:46):
different levels of developmentaround the creative industries,
and as it stands there is noseat for audio in any form on
the Creative Industries Council,which seems completely mad to
me.
And so one of the big thingsthat I've been working on with
Hannah, who's our policy andregulation lead, is lobbying
around a seat on the CreativeIndustries Council and from that
(03:09):
flows things like creativeaudio, tax relief for podcasting
and audiobooks, more IP fundingfor development and IP export
overseas.
So I guess if you're one of ourbigger members then you are
able to directly feed into thoseconversations.
I think one of the things I loveabout Audio UK is I keep in
fairly constant contact with alot of the founders and CEOs and
(03:33):
MDs of our companies.
So we're always very open totalking to our members about
various issues and that givesthem a really kind of direct
avenue into those massiveindustry decisions.
So it's very much about growingthe industry Tangible benefits.
We provide a lot of businesssupport.
So we've just partnered with anew insurance provider on behalf
(03:54):
of our members called Riskbox,which is great.
We have a long runningpartnership with Minton Co, who
provide as soon as you join upat any business level, you get
access to 30 free legal contracttemplates.
We have a partnership with HRcompanies all of those things
that you might be really focusedas a business on, like what's
(04:14):
the creative, what's an idea,but all the kind of
infrastructure of running abusiness.
We also offer that to all ofour members.
So, and many other thingstraining, audio production,
awards, which we're going tocall the APAs from now on and,
yeah, so many different things.
Sam Sethi (04:31):
Okay, so a couple of questions there.
One is what's the website?
So let's get that out of theway.
Where would they go to find outmore?
Chloe Straw (04:38):
AudioUKorguk.
Our LinkedIn's a bit moreexciting, but if you want to
find out about joining us, thengo to the website.
Sam Sethi (04:45):
And the other one is I don't know if you saw, but in
this week's news, india hasannounced a $1 billion
investment into its localcreator economy.
So it sounds very similar towhat you were just describing
with what Audio UK would wantfrom the UK government.
So in Mumbai, neil Mohan, theCEO of YouTube, basically spoke,
(05:08):
and then the Indian governmentminister has announced that
they're putting in $1 billionnot rupees, thankfully and the
goal is to enable creators toscale their productions, upgrade
tech and tap into the globalmarkets.
That sounds exactly what youwere just describing for what
Audio UK wants the UK governmentto do.
Chloe Straw (05:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's very much what we need to
happen, I think, if I have afascinating spreadsheet which
looks at kind of the differentbenefits that other creative
industries get.
So film, tv, gaming, animation,theatre they get a huge amount
of government support, wherehistorically, we got a bit of
money into training, but thatstopped in 2018.
(05:47):
2018.
We're actually partnering withthe BBC on training.
We're relaunching AudioTrain,which will be great, but I feel
like the government should beputting money into training for
audio as well.
Absolutely, we put in a proposalfor the spring spending review
around a fund for IP developmentand export.
So, obviously, as we all know,one of the things that we want
(06:09):
to do is make sure that UKpodcasting is successful
internationally and we're ableto tap into those international
markets as well, and that'sanother of our key focuses is
how do we bring in moreinternational investment?
The kind of IP fund focuses onthat at a local level as well as
at a global level.
And also, the audio tax reliefis very much around.
(06:31):
So many of our member companiesuse UK teams to make podcasts
for the US and if we had a taxrelief, you know it would just
supercharge that.
So, yeah, we just want to growthe industry, bring in more
money.
We'd love a billion dollars forthe podcast.
Sam Sethi (06:46):
Wouldn't we just yes.
Chloe Straw (06:48):
Maybe a bit less than that at the moment.
But you know anything, I'd takeanything right now, and then
we'll work up to a billion.
Sam Sethi (06:54):
We'll see if Rachel's got a few shekel behind her
couch.
You know she might find some.
Now, this event that you've gotcoming up it's on the 23rd of
April.
Tell me more about it.
Chloe Straw (07:04):
So that's another real focus for us this year
actually.
So, aside from policy events soon, we obviously work with a
lot of the biggest and finestproduction businesses,
production houses and networksin the UK.
As I've mentioned, that's oneof the things I absolutely love
about Audio UK.
It's the ability to bring allthese incredible businesses
(07:27):
together, and one thing that wedo is we have a podcast leaders
lunch.
So it's for Audio UK membercompanies.
They don't necessarily have tobe the biggest.
Obviously the biggest comealong, but it's the CEOs and the
MDs and the co-founders ofthose businesses who come along,
and something that I love aboutthe industry is that they're
obviously all competitors, butthey're also very happy to share
(07:50):
insights, which I love becauseI love partnerships.
I think good things happen outof partnerships, and so we run
these leaders lunches everyquarter or so.
We obviously put on lunch, geteveryone who we can together to
come along and discussopportunities and challenges
within the industry.
And one of the biggestchallenges and opportunities
(08:10):
that came up was aroundadvertising in podcasting in the
UK, and I mean you know this aswell, if not better, than I do.
You know podcasting in the UK,in terms of ad spend, still has
a long way to go in terms ofbeing recognised as a really
good place to put your money.
As a really good place to putyour money.
(08:34):
We all know that it's a greatplace.
We know that the statistics aregood.
We know that audienceengagement is good.
We know that the kind of returnon investment is good.
The kind of structure andconvincing the ad agencies and
the media buyers of that stillneeds a lot more work, and I
spend a lot of time withstatistics because I love data
and so we know the obviouscomparison is the US and the UK,
(08:55):
both primarily English speakingcountries, and I think my most
recent calculation is if youlook at the podcast ad spend per
person in the UK, it's 1.2pounds per person and if you
look at it in the US, it's $7per person.
So it's not just that the US isbigger because population size
it's bigger per person, and soone of the priorities that came
(09:16):
out of those lunches was aroundhow do we convince advertisers
that podcasting is a good placeto put their money?
We know it, but there'sobviously a bit of a disconnect
there.
Know it, but there's obviouslya bit of a disconnect there, and
obviously there's great workbeing done already by ACAST, by
Megaphone Goalhanger, do theirown outreach around that.
(09:37):
A lot of the businesses that wework with do outreach around
that, but I think it's reallypowerful to bring all of these
businesses together and get thebrands and advertisers together
to hear from such an incrediblebunch of businesses At the same
time as we'd come up with that.
I know Meera Kumar quite well,who's obviously a fantastic
(09:57):
producer, and she brought asimilar idea to me, and the
beauty of Meera is, if it hadbeen left to me because I have
40,000 things to do at any onepoint it probably would have
stayed.
Oh, that's a good idea,shouldn't we do that Whilst I
answer all my emails, and shecame to me with the idea and has
been really instrumental injust driving it forward, which
(10:19):
is fantastic.
We also have Martin who runsPodmasters helping out and a few
other people.
So, yeah, I think the mainpoint of it is around
demystifying advertising, and Ithink the reason we wanted to is
around demystifying advertising.
And I think the reason wewanted to do it is because in
advertising there's so manydifferent stakeholders, isn't
there?
There's kind of the platforms,the production houses, the
(10:41):
agencies, the media buyers somany different things and I
think again, one of thestrengths of Audio UK and one of
the things that I love about itis the ability to hear straight
from the horse's mouth.
So we are bringing these brandsand advertisers together with
the production houses and thenetworks who sell their content,
make their content, distributetheir content, and we want to
(11:04):
talk to them about why it's sobrilliant and just do a really
good job of showing them whypodcasting should be on their
buying plan for the next year.
I think it's a difficult task.
We are different from the US inhow we're set up.
I was reading a reallyinteresting report recently and
one of the points around it isthat podcasting still sits under
(11:28):
audio in terms of ad buying,and I think, if you look at
America, podcasting is sort ofits own branch of buying, and I
think that's something that'sreally interesting for us to
look at.
For me, this is a really goodfirst step in tackling and you
know, it's not just us doing it,a lot of people are doing it,
(11:50):
and it's not just us doing it, alot of people are doing it but
if we all tackle the need formore money to come into podcast
advertising and sponsorships.
I think it can only be a goodthing.
Sam Sethi (12:00):
I think, given what you said, I heartily agree that
the differences between the USand UK markets.
There's a couple of things inmy head.
One is I think Rocky Thomasfrom Soundstack had said it when
she was presenting over inVenice recently we don't make
podcasting buying for mediacompanies easy.
We don't talk their language,so somehow we've got to
(12:22):
translate Swahili into theirlanguage and they've got to
translate whatever they do intoours.
So there's an education element, and so I think your event will
be good as a first step in that.
I also think and I don't say itlightly I think there is a
laziness within the industry,not so much the podcasting, but
I think in the media industrybuying.
It's like let's not rock theboat, let's do what we do.
It's easy.
So there's an element of that.
(12:44):
And then I think there is alsoone thing I think the podcasting
industry can do, which is toprovide better metrics back to
the advertisers.
I think TV and radio don't do agood job.
Things like Raja, I think, areweird and I think some of the
measurement systems.
It's like one person inScarborough heard your station,
so a million people werelistening to you today.
It's like that's not true.
(13:05):
You can't just extrapolateright, but that's what the
industry does and everyone takesthat number as a given.
But I think within podcastingwe can do a better job and I'm
currently working with a bunchof geeks on something called
performance data, which is firstparty data back Now companies
like YouTube, spotify, applehave that first party data.
How long did Chloe listen tothis podcast?
(13:26):
Did she hear the ad?
When did she drop off?
All those things can be givenback to advertisers.
That radio and TV cannot do.
And I think that's the sort ofmessaging I would hope is
getting back to those mediabuyers.
Actually, the old adage of Ispend my marketing, I just don't
know which half is effectiveand which is not.
I think with podcasting I thinkwe can address that, but that
(13:49):
was the promise of digitalonline anyway.
Now this event if anyone wantsto come along, I'm assuming it's
invite only, so how would theycome along?
Chloe Straw (13:59):
Yeah, so we have made it just for brands and
advertisers because we need toprovide that value for the
businesses who are presenting.
So if you would like to comealong, then you can drop Katie,
who does our marketing, an email.
So she is.
It's got to be an easier way todo this, but again there's not.
(14:20):
Perhaps you could put a link inthe transcript way to do this,
but again there's not.
Perhaps you could put a link inthe transcript.
Sam Sethi (14:30):
Uh, k-a-t-i-e bannum which is dot b-a-n-h-a-m at
audio ukorguk we'll put it inthe show notes for you as well.
Now, outside of talking togovernment and trying to change
policy and running events, whatelse does audio uk do?
Chloe Straw (14:43):
so, yeah, I must give a big shout out to the apas
, which are our annual awardsceremony.
Katie messaged me beforehandwas like make sure you mention
the apas, chloe, so they're atthe bfi in november.
I think it's november.
Actually, I don't want to give,I'll get the date wrong, which
is classically me.
So I was going to give you anexclusive date reveal somewhere
(15:04):
in november.
Sam Sethi (15:04):
It's around.
Then We'll let you know.
Chloe Straw (15:06):
On a Wednesday towards the end.
I should have briefed myself abit better on that.
Apologies about that.
So we do that.
As you say, we do a lot ofevents.
So I would absolutely sayplease join Audio UK If you are
not sure if you're eligible tobe a member.
We're broadening the membershipmore and more.
As I say, our key driver isvery much about growing this
(15:29):
industry, about bringing moremoney into it for our businesses
.
We all do it for the love, butyou need to earn the money to
keep going as well.
But we are primarily memberfunded and so the more people
that join, the merrier.
We have a join us button on ourwebsite and as part of that,
everything that I've spokenabout, we are doing an
(15:49):
increasing amount of eventsbecause we find that members get
a huge amount of benefit fromthat.
So we recently ran an event withPACT, who are the TV and film
equivalent of us, which was a TVversus podcasting networking
event.
Obviously, as we all know,podcasting is not just audio,
it's every single different IPextension you could possibly
(16:12):
know about.
And what was really nice aboutthat event was we brought PAT
members together with Audio UKmembers.
They were able to network.
We had a presentation fromKarina at Buzz16 and from Tony
Pastor at Goalhanger and it wasjust a great time for, you know,
people might have a podcastidea but they don't know how to
exploit the TV IP extension, orpeople in TV might want to learn
(16:36):
more about podcasting.
So we're trying to do more andmore of those events that grow
people's businesses and more ofthose events that grow people's
businesses, grow theiropportunities.
I'm a huge collaborator.
We are relaunching our audiotrain platform this year, which
is very much about providingopen access training to the
whole podcast, audio radio,audiobook industry.
(16:58):
It's in the early stages butwill very much be around a kind
of series of training videosfrom industry experts.
So if you want to know how tostory edit, you want to know how
to monetize your podcast, youwant to know how to market your
podcast, you want to know aboutaudio drama, there should be a
video for everything.
So I'm very excited about thatand we also are generally at
(17:21):
most of the events we get aroundquite a lot.
So the uni pod fest is comingup on the 4th of april see you
yeah, great.
And bernard, uh, ashton pong,who is the vice chair and
obviously founder of unedited,he and I are doing a workshop
and so, yeah, we'll see youthere and I'm really excited
about the podcast show.
Um, I do love the podcast show.
(17:44):
It's an opportunity to see allyour work, friends, and it's
increasingly international,which is important for us.
So we've announced our firstpanel there, which is called
2025 to 2035 predictions for thefuture of podcasting.
Sam Sethi (17:59):
Seat one, row one, I'll be there.
Chloe Straw (18:00):
I know I mean it's a little bit tongue inin-cheek,
but I'm looking forward to it.
Sam Sethi (18:04):
Mystic Chloe.
That's the new title.
Chloe Straw (18:07):
I want the audience to put their predictions in,
but I'm chairing that and thenthere's going to be Megan
Bradshaw from Amazon Music,Tiffany Ashtay from Acast and
Jessica Cordova Kramer fromLemonada Media.
So I think incredible amount ofknowledge there.
And we've already made the jokethat we're going to have a
swear jar if anyone says video,because obviously there's so
(18:30):
much out there, like every timeon LinkedIn, I'm so happy to
read about it, but it's like isvideo the future of podcasting?
And we think we know that videohas got a part in it now.
So our promise to you on thatpanel is, if we say video, we
have to put a pound in the jar.
Sam Sethi (18:46):
I tell you, the drinks that evening are going to
be amazing.
Chloe Straw (18:49):
And we've also got a couple more that I'm really
excited about, but I can'tannounce yet, so hopefully they
should come and yeah, all theother things.
But, as I say, we're realfocused on pushing really hard
to grow this industry that welove, whether that's through
bringing more money in fromadvertising, through getting a
(19:10):
seat on the Creative IndustriesCouncil, we're just sort of
hammering away at the moment.
Sam Sethi (19:15):
Hopefully, more people will hear this and join.
More people will also ping youto come along to your event.
Yes, and we will all see you,hopefully at the London Podcast
Show.
Chloe Straw, thank you so much.
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Chloe Straw (19:35):
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The Pub News Weekly Review.
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Sam Sethi (00:07):
I'm joined today by Chloe Straw.
Chloe is the CEO of Audio UK.
Chloe hello, how are you?
Chloe Straw (00:14):
Hi, sam, I'm good.
Thanks for having me.
Sam Sethi (00:16):
It's our pleasure.
Now look Audio UK.
Let's crack through that first.
What is Audio UK?
Chloe Straw (00:22):
So we've recently slightly updated our kind of
mission statement and that'svery much because the way that
the audio industry has changedso rapidly over the last kind of
10 years.
So we are an industry body andwe're dedicated to advancing the
audio sector.
So that includes podcasts,radio, audio books, and that's
by fostering innovation,innovation supporting creators
(00:44):
and businesses and drivingsustainable growth.
So we've got about 130 members,we're member funded and I think
we have about 50 in london, 50out of london, across the uk,
and they include businesses likesony, goldhanger, audio always,
persephonica, novel, so a hugerange of amazing different
(01:05):
businesses.
Sam Sethi (01:06):
And when you say all these people are members, what
is it that you are then givingthem Guidance?
Are you giving them regulation?
What is it that Audio UKprovides then?
Chloe Straw (01:18):
So we do a huge amount of different work and it
represents the huge range ofdifferent members that we have.
So within those lists we mighthave one person who is an
audiobook producer, and theychurn out audiobooks every
single week in their home studio.
And then obviously you haveGoalhanger, who are absolutely
massive and have five out of thetop 10 Apple podcasts in the
(01:41):
charts every week.
So in the way that our membershave a lot of different needs,
we provide a lot of differentservices.
So one of the biggest thingsthat we concentrate on is
growing the industry and growing, I guess, the amount of money
coming into the industry for ourmembers.
Our members are largelyindependent, and by that I mean
we don't have the BBC as amember, we don't have Global as
(02:03):
a member, but we do have some ofthe kind of biggest independent
podcast companies, and so Iguess what we do I split into
almost two sides.
There's the tangible benefitsand the less tangible benefits.
In terms of industry growth,one of our main things this year
is we're doing a huge amount ofpolicy work, which doesn't
sound that exciting but isreally really important, of
(02:25):
policy work which doesn't soundthat exciting but is really
really important and the maincrux of that without turning
this into a policy podcast isaround getting audio podcasting
recognised as a creativeindustry.
So there's something atgovernment level called the
Creative Industries Council.
It has a huge amount of inputinto where the money goes for
the creative industries,representation abroad and all
(02:46):
different levels of developmentaround the creative industries,
and as it stands there is noseat for audio in any form on
the Creative Industries Council,which seems completely mad to
me.
And so one of the big thingsthat I've been working on with
Hannah, who's our policy andregulation lead, is lobbying
around a seat on the CreativeIndustries Council and from that
(03:09):
flows things like creativeaudio, tax relief for podcasting
and audiobooks, more IP fundingfor development and IP export
overseas.
So I guess if you're one of ourbigger members then you are
able to directly feed into thoseconversations.
I think one of the things I loveabout Audio UK is I keep in
fairly constant contact with alot of the founders and CEOs and
(03:33):
MDs of our companies.
So we're always very open totalking to our members about
various issues and that givesthem a really kind of direct
avenue into those massiveindustry decisions.
So it's very much about growingthe industry Tangible benefits.
We provide a lot of businesssupport.
So we've just partnered with anew insurance provider on behalf
(03:54):
of our members called Riskbox,which is great.
We have a long runningpartnership with Minton Co, who
provide as soon as you join upat any business level, you get
access to 30 free legal contracttemplates.
We have a partnership with HRcompanies all of those things
that you might be really focusedas a business on, like what's
(04:14):
the creative, what's an idea,but all the kind of
infrastructure of running abusiness.
We also offer that to all ofour members.
So, and many other thingstraining, audio production,
awards, which we're going tocall the APAs from now on and,
yeah, so many different things.
Sam Sethi (04:31):
Okay, so a couple of questions there.
One is what's the website?
So let's get that out of theway.
Where would they go to find outmore?
Chloe Straw (04:38):
AudioUKorguk.
Our LinkedIn's a bit moreexciting, but if you want to
find out about joining us, thengo to the website.
Sam Sethi (04:45):
And the other one is I don't know if you saw, but in
this week's news, india hasannounced a $1 billion
investment into its localcreator economy.
So it sounds very similar towhat you were just describing
with what Audio UK would wantfrom the UK government.
So in Mumbai, neil Mohan, theCEO of YouTube, basically spoke,
(05:08):
and then the Indian governmentminister has announced that
they're putting in $1 billionnot rupees, thankfully and the
goal is to enable creators toscale their productions, upgrade
tech and tap into the globalmarkets.
That sounds exactly what youwere just describing for what
Audio UK wants the UK governmentto do.
Chloe Straw (05:26):
Yeah, I mean, that's very much what we need to
happen, I think, if I have afascinating spreadsheet which
looks at kind of the differentbenefits that other creative
industries get.
So film, tv, gaming, animation,theatre they get a huge amount
of government support, wherehistorically, we got a bit of
money into training, but thatstopped in 2018.
(05:47):
2018.
We're actually partnering withthe BBC on training.
We're relaunching AudioTrain,which will be great, but I feel
like the government should beputting money into training for
audio as well.
Absolutely, we put in a proposalfor the spring spending review
around a fund for IP developmentand export.
So, obviously, as we all know,one of the things that we want
(06:09):
to do is make sure that UKpodcasting is successful
internationally and we're ableto tap into those international
markets as well, and that'sanother of our key focuses is
how do we bring in moreinternational investment?
The kind of IP fund focuses onthat at a local level as well as
at a global level.
And also, the audio tax reliefis very much around.
(06:31):
So many of our member companiesuse UK teams to make podcasts
for the US and if we had a taxrelief, you know it would just
supercharge that.
So, yeah, we just want to growthe industry, bring in more
money.
We'd love a billion dollars forthe podcast.
Sam Sethi (06:46):
Wouldn't we just yes.
Chloe Straw (06:48):
Maybe a bit less than that at the moment.
But you know anything, I'd takeanything right now, and then
we'll work up to a billion.
Sam Sethi (06:54):
We'll see if Rachel's got a few shekel behind her
couch.
You know she might find some.
Now, this event that you've gotcoming up it's on the 23rd of
April.
Tell me more about it.
Chloe Straw (07:04):
So that's another real focus for us this year
actually.
So, aside from policy events soon, we obviously work with a
lot of the biggest and finestproduction businesses,
production houses and networksin the UK.
As I've mentioned, that's oneof the things I absolutely love
about Audio UK.
It's the ability to bring allthese incredible businesses
(07:27):
together, and one thing that wedo is we have a podcast leaders
lunch.
So it's for Audio UK membercompanies.
They don't necessarily have tobe the biggest.
Obviously the biggest comealong, but it's the CEOs and the
MDs and the co-founders ofthose businesses who come along,
and something that I love aboutthe industry is that they're
obviously all competitors, butthey're also very happy to share
(07:50):
insights, which I love becauseI love partnerships.
I think good things happen outof partnerships, and so we run
these leaders lunches everyquarter or so.
We obviously put on lunch, geteveryone who we can together to
come along and discussopportunities and challenges
within the industry.
And one of the biggestchallenges and opportunities
(08:10):
that came up was aroundadvertising in podcasting in the
UK, and I mean you know this aswell, if not better, than I do.
You know podcasting in the UK,in terms of ad spend, still has
a long way to go in terms ofbeing recognised as a really
good place to put your money.
As a really good place to putyour money.
(08:34):
We all know that it's a greatplace.
We know that the statistics aregood.
We know that audienceengagement is good.
We know that the kind of returnon investment is good.
The kind of structure andconvincing the ad agencies and
the media buyers of that stillneeds a lot more work, and I
spend a lot of time withstatistics because I love data
and so we know the obviouscomparison is the US and the UK,
(08:55):
both primarily English speakingcountries, and I think my most
recent calculation is if youlook at the podcast ad spend per
person in the UK, it's 1.2pounds per person and if you
look at it in the US, it's $7per person.
So it's not just that the US isbigger because population size
it's bigger per person, and soone of the priorities that came
(09:16):
out of those lunches was aroundhow do we convince advertisers
that podcasting is a good placeto put their money?
We know it, but there'sobviously a bit of a disconnect
there.
Know it, but there's obviouslya bit of a disconnect there, and
obviously there's great workbeing done already by ACAST, by
Megaphone Goalhanger, do theirown outreach around that.
(09:37):
A lot of the businesses that wework with do outreach around
that, but I think it's reallypowerful to bring all of these
businesses together and get thebrands and advertisers together
to hear from such an incrediblebunch of businesses At the same
time as we'd come up with that.
I know Meera Kumar quite well,who's obviously a fantastic
(09:57):
producer, and she brought asimilar idea to me, and the
beauty of Meera is, if it hadbeen left to me because I have
40,000 things to do at any onepoint it probably would have
stayed.
Oh, that's a good idea,shouldn't we do that Whilst I
answer all my emails, and shecame to me with the idea and has
been really instrumental injust driving it forward, which
(10:19):
is fantastic.
We also have Martin who runsPodmasters helping out and a few
other people.
So, yeah, I think the mainpoint of it is around
demystifying advertising, and Ithink the reason we wanted to is
around demystifying advertising.
And I think the reason wewanted to do it is because in
advertising there's so manydifferent stakeholders, isn't
there?
There's kind of the platforms,the production houses, the
(10:41):
agencies, the media buyers somany different things and I
think again, one of thestrengths of Audio UK and one of
the things that I love about itis the ability to hear straight
from the horse's mouth.
So we are bringing these brandsand advertisers together with
the production houses and thenetworks who sell their content,
make their content, distributetheir content, and we want to
(11:04):
talk to them about why it's sobrilliant and just do a really
good job of showing them whypodcasting should be on their
buying plan for the next year.
I think it's a difficult task.
We are different from the US inhow we're set up.
I was reading a reallyinteresting report recently and
one of the points around it isthat podcasting still sits under
(11:28):
audio in terms of ad buying,and I think, if you look at
America, podcasting is sort ofits own branch of buying, and I
think that's something that'sreally interesting for us to
look at.
For me, this is a really goodfirst step in tackling and you
know, it's not just us doing it,a lot of people are doing it,
(11:50):
and it's not just us doing it, alot of people are doing it but
if we all tackle the need formore money to come into podcast
advertising and sponsorships.
I think it can only be a goodthing.
Sam Sethi (12:00):
I think, given what you said, I heartily agree that
the differences between the USand UK markets.
There's a couple of things inmy head.
One is I think Rocky Thomasfrom Soundstack had said it when
she was presenting over inVenice recently we don't make
podcasting buying for mediacompanies easy.
We don't talk their language,so somehow we've got to
(12:22):
translate Swahili into theirlanguage and they've got to
translate whatever they do intoours.
So there's an education element, and so I think your event will
be good as a first step in that.
I also think and I don't say itlightly I think there is a
laziness within the industry,not so much the podcasting, but
I think in the media industrybuying.
It's like let's not rock theboat, let's do what we do.
It's easy.
So there's an element of that.
(12:44):
And then I think there is alsoone thing I think the podcasting
industry can do, which is toprovide better metrics back to
the advertisers.
I think TV and radio don't do agood job.
Things like Raja, I think, areweird and I think some of the
measurement systems.
It's like one person inScarborough heard your station,
so a million people werelistening to you today.
It's like that's not true.
(13:05):
You can't just extrapolateright, but that's what the
industry does and everyone takesthat number as a given.
But I think within podcastingwe can do a better job and I'm
currently working with a bunchof geeks on something called
performance data, which is firstparty data back Now companies
like YouTube, spotify, applehave that first party data.
How long did Chloe listen tothis podcast?
(13:26):
Did she hear the ad?
When did she drop off?
All those things can be givenback to advertisers.
That radio and TV cannot do.
And I think that's the sort ofmessaging I would hope is
getting back to those mediabuyers.
Actually, the old adage of Ispend my marketing, I just don't
know which half is effectiveand which is not.
I think with podcasting I thinkwe can address that, but that
(13:49):
was the promise of digitalonline anyway.
Now this event if anyone wantsto come along, I'm assuming it's
invite only, so how would theycome along?
Chloe Straw (13:59):
Yeah, so we have made it just for brands and
advertisers because we need toprovide that value for the
businesses who are presenting.
So if you would like to comealong, then you can drop Katie,
who does our marketing, an email.
So she is.
It's got to be an easier way todo this, but again there's not.
(14:20):
Perhaps you could put a link inthe transcript way to do this,
but again there's not.
Perhaps you could put a link inthe transcript.
Sam Sethi (14:30):
Uh, k-a-t-i-e bannum which is dot b-a-n-h-a-m at
audio ukorguk we'll put it inthe show notes for you as well.
Now, outside of talking togovernment and trying to change
policy and running events, whatelse does audio uk do?
Chloe Straw (14:43):
so, yeah, I must give a big shout out to the apas
, which are our annual awardsceremony.
Katie messaged me beforehandwas like make sure you mention
the apas, chloe, so they're atthe bfi in november.
I think it's november.
Actually, I don't want to give,I'll get the date wrong, which
is classically me.
So I was going to give you anexclusive date reveal somewhere
(15:04):
in november.
Sam Sethi (15:04):
It's around.
Then We'll let you know.
Chloe Straw (15:06):
On a Wednesday towards the end.
I should have briefed myself abit better on that.
Apologies about that.
So we do that.
As you say, we do a lot ofevents.
So I would absolutely sayplease join Audio UK If you are
not sure if you're eligible tobe a member.
We're broadening the membershipmore and more.
As I say, our key driver isvery much about growing this
(15:29):
industry, about bringing moremoney into it for our businesses
.
We all do it for the love, butyou need to earn the money to
keep going as well.
But we are primarily memberfunded and so the more people
that join, the merrier.
We have a join us button on ourwebsite and as part of that,
everything that I've spokenabout, we are doing an
(15:49):
increasing amount of eventsbecause we find that members get
a huge amount of benefit fromthat.
So we recently ran an event withPACT, who are the TV and film
equivalent of us, which was a TVversus podcasting networking
event.
Obviously, as we all know,podcasting is not just audio,
it's every single different IPextension you could possibly
(16:12):
know about.
And what was really nice aboutthat event was we brought PAT
members together with Audio UKmembers.
They were able to network.
We had a presentation fromKarina at Buzz16 and from Tony
Pastor at Goalhanger and it wasjust a great time for, you know,
people might have a podcastidea but they don't know how to
exploit the TV IP extension, orpeople in TV might want to learn
(16:36):
more about podcasting.
So we're trying to do more andmore of those events that grow
people's businesses and more ofthose events that grow people's
businesses, grow theiropportunities.
I'm a huge collaborator.
We are relaunching our audiotrain platform this year, which
is very much about providingopen access training to the
whole podcast, audio radio,audiobook industry.
(16:58):
It's in the early stages butwill very much be around a kind
of series of training videosfrom industry experts.
So if you want to know how tostory edit, you want to know how
to monetize your podcast, youwant to know how to market your
podcast, you want to know aboutaudio drama, there should be a
video for everything.
So I'm very excited about thatand we also are generally at
(17:21):
most of the events we get aroundquite a lot.
So the uni pod fest is comingup on the 4th of april see you
yeah, great.
And bernard, uh, ashton pong,who is the vice chair and
obviously founder of unedited,he and I are doing a workshop
and so, yeah, we'll see youthere and I'm really excited
about the podcast show.
Um, I do love the podcast show.
(17:44):
It's an opportunity to see allyour work, friends, and it's
increasingly international,which is important for us.
So we've announced our firstpanel there, which is called
2025 to 2035 predictions for thefuture of podcasting.
Sam Sethi (17:59):
Seat one, row one, I'll be there.
Chloe Straw (18:00):
I know I mean it's a little bit tongue inin-cheek,
but I'm looking forward to it.
Sam Sethi (18:04):
Mystic Chloe.
That's the new title.
Chloe Straw (18:07):
I want the audience to put their predictions in,
but I'm chairing that and thenthere's going to be Megan
Bradshaw from Amazon Music,Tiffany Ashtay from Acast and
Jessica Cordova Kramer fromLemonada Media.
So I think incredible amount ofknowledge there.
And we've already made the jokethat we're going to have a
swear jar if anyone says video,because obviously there's so
(18:30):
much out there, like every timeon LinkedIn, I'm so happy to
read about it, but it's like isvideo the future of podcasting?
And we think we know that videohas got a part in it now.
So our promise to you on thatpanel is, if we say video, we
have to put a pound in the jar.
Sam Sethi (18:46):
I tell you, the drinks that evening are going to
be amazing.
Chloe Straw (18:49):
And we've also got a couple more that I'm really
excited about, but I can'tannounce yet, so hopefully they
should come and yeah, all theother things.
But, as I say, we're realfocused on pushing really hard
to grow this industry that welove, whether that's through
bringing more money in fromadvertising, through getting a
(19:10):
seat on the Creative IndustriesCouncil, we're just sort of
hammering away at the moment.
Sam Sethi (19:15):
Hopefully, more people will hear this and join.
More people will also ping youto come along to your event.
Yes, and we will all see you,hopefully at the London Podcast
Show.
Chloe Straw, thank you so much.
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