Fresh Air's branded podcasts; and Spotify looks to disclose AI use

Episode Transcript
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Announcement (00:00):
The Pod News Weekly Review uses chapters.
In YouTube, just mouse over theplayback bar.
Or, you know, use a properpodcast app, you barbarian.
The last word in podcastingnews.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridlin and
Sam Sethy.

JamesCridland (00:16):
I'm James Cridlin, the editor of Pod News.

SamSethi (00:18):
And I'm Sam Sethy, the CEO of TrueFans.

NeilCowling (00:22):
I still find that every time we speak to a new
brand, we have to start fromthat low base.
There's still a huge educationpiece to be done on how this
medium works and why a brandshould get involved.

Neil Cowling from Fresh Air on Branded Podcasts
plus Spotify's approach to AIand HLS for podcasting.
This podcast is sponsored byBuzzSprout with a tool, support,
and community to ensure youkeep podcasting.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting with BuzzSprout.com.

From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly
Review.

SamSethi (00:55):
This week, uh, I just want to say congratulations for
a great interview that you didlast week.
I really enjoyed hearing fromJanine, but also just
understanding more about herperspective, but also it made it
very clear to me that it's notsomething I want to engage with
as a consumer.
You did say at the end of thatthough, that you ha didn't want

(01:17):
to give your opinion.
Now, lots of other people havegiven their opinion since, Adam
Curry and Dave Jones, amongothers.
Did you want to give anyadditional thoughts on it?

Well, I mean, I I I shouldn't be giving any
opinion, but I enjoyed listeningto Adam and Dave.
This is a little bit of whatDave Jones had to say.

DaveJones (01:36):
I recommend everybody listen to James's interview
with Janine Rice.

AdamCurry (01:40):
What's your takeaway from it?

DaveJones (01:41):
She seemed very uncomfortable.
To me, that was that was ageneral sense that I got and and
I don't blame her, I would betoo.
I also think that this is thissounds very much like a company
who's looking to get purchased.

I think he's absolutely right there, both in
terms of the company wanting toget purchased, but also yes, I I
found it odd that she didn'tsound as comfortable as I
thought that she would do, giventhat uh quite a lot of the
things that she has been sayinghave been, well, how can I put
this, a little bit sort ofincendiary in terms of the way

(02:18):
that she's been saying it.
But yeah, but that that was uhthat was my overall my overall
thoughts there.

SamSethi (02:24):
Yeah, I mean I I I took it as you know, the part
where she said I'm releasingthree thousand episodes a week.

JeanineWright (02:30):
Three thousand episodes a week.
I have eight people in my team,there's no way we're listening.
There's no way we're listeningto the overwhelming majority of
our content.

SamSethi (02:37):
Before it's released.
I I I go Okay, so you'readmitting it, that's fine.
This is the Jason Calacanisplay when he did it for blogging
and SEO, and that's what she'sfocused on.
She's looking at the SEO that'scurrently trending on Google
and then throwing something outthe front door and trying to get
a uh, I guess, an audience thatwill monetize against it.

(02:58):
That that in itself, if that'syour model, that's fine.
That's what you want to do.
It'll be interesting whetherthe podcast index blocks this
content onto their platform.
It'll be interesting to see ifapps decide to block this
content onto their platform aswell.

Yeah, I I would certainly agree with that.
I think you you know, the theone thing that I didn't hear
Janine say was anything to dowith the listener.
So we we heard a lot about howit was very clever that they'd
managed to, you know, launch ashow about Charlie Kirk within
an hour of the shooting.
Well, very clever, but nowherehave we actually heard what the

(03:37):
listener thinks.
And the only way to find outwhat the listener thinks is to
have a look at some of thereviews for some of those shows.
And what she's essentially saidin terms of that is that or and
what the audience has said interms of that is that they don't
like it very much.
You know, they're they're notrated particularly highly,
they're very clearly AI.

(03:57):
So I'm not quite sure, youknow, what what's going on
there, but you know, time timewill tell.
And it depends really whetheror not you're an advertiser and
you want to advertise in there,given that you know, if you are
in there 45 minutes into anhour-long show, well, that may
not be listened to because youknow people may have already

(04:18):
tuned out by that point.
So that is the other sort ofside of it, I suppose.

SamSethi (04:23):
Well, somebody also said, I wonder if bots download
the product, the the thewhatever they are, these these
AI podcasts.
So you're getting botsdownloading it.
The only person that's gettingthen hurt in this process will
be the advertiser who's payingfor non-listeners.

Yeah, I agree.
So I think that that'll beinteresting how that uh shakes
out.
But yeah, it's a goodinterview.
If you want to go back and havea listen to it, you can also
read it if you're if you don'twant to listen.
You can read it at uhpodcastbusinessjournal.com.

SamSethi (04:58):
Now on a happier note, James, happy International
Podcast Day.
It was this week.
Anything that's been said ordone that you noticed.

I really liked there was a a post.
So so firstly, uh theInternational Podcast Day
desperately needs someorganization.
It doesn't have any or anyorganization, it's not really a
thing.
And uh, as last year and as theyear before, I got lots of
emails on the day saying we'redoing this for International
Podcast Day.
Well, why why didn't you tellme before so that I could
actually have published it onInternational Podcast Day?

(05:30):
So cheers.
Thanks very much by that.
But anyway, there was a reallynice post from RSS.com from the
podcast hosting company there,which was basically saying that
the RSS feed is podcasting'ssecret weapon.
Well, of course they would saythat, wouldn't they?
But actually, I think thatthere's something of interest
there in terms of where we'vecome from and where we're going,

(05:52):
that actually, you know, theopenness of RSS is a really
important thing in terms ofwhere podcasting is going.

SamSethi (05:59):
I I I tend to agree it is the secret source, and it's
something that other companiestry and get rid of time and time
again, and it just comes backand it comes back.
So uh yeah.
Nice article.
Uh, thanks a lot to RSS.com forwriting that.
Now, let's get on with some ofthe stories from this week,
James.
Like London buses, James, itseems that CEOs leaving to

(06:21):
become executive chairman is atrend.
We heard about Ross Adamsstepping down, we heard about
Andrew Mason stepping up to bethe chief executive.
Um and now it seems this weekDaniel Eck has announced that he
is going to step up to be thechief executive and transition
from being the CEO, James.

Yes, yeah, so he's stepping up to be executive
chairman, isn't he, fromJanuary the 1st next year.
Interestingly, there are goingto be two CEOs.
What could go wrong?
What could go wrong?
Could go wrong there.
So Alex Nostrum and GustavSerdestrom will be the co-CEOs
for Spotify.
Essentially, what Daniel Eckhas uh said is that he is very

(07:06):
much going to be focusing on uhthe future of uh Spotify and not
the day-to-day stuff.
And you can s totally see fromhis point of view that actually
the day-to-day stuff must bequite dull, really, given his
background, given his history ofcoming up with new ideas and
everything else, that actuallythe day-to-day stuff must be a

(07:26):
little bit boring.
So I think that it probablyfits him rather better, you
know, in terms of that.
He says he wants to spend moretime on the long-term strategic
decisions that will defineSpotify in the next decade.
So interesting to see that,certainly.
I mean, obviously, Daniel hasbeen spending some of his money
on uh on drones, which isexciting, but that's sort of

(07:50):
basically where he is.

SamSethi (07:51):
Yeah, that drone investment of 600 million euros
uh hasn't gone down very well.
Lots of music artists areremoving their content from the
Spotify catalogue, saying theydon't want to be uh linked to a
company that is investing in warmachines.
But you know, I'm sure Danielwill keep doing that.
He is on the positive noteinvested into a very interesting

(08:14):
healthcare company, and itopened in London about a year
ago.
So that's one to watch out for.
So he is putting his moneywhere his mouth is, I guess.
The other thing, if you'reinterested though, David Senra,
who I've never heard of, by theway, so uh apologies to David,
is a brand new podcast out thisweek, and in that episode he
does interview Daniel Eck, andmaybe that's something worth

(08:37):
listening to.
I haven't had a chance tolisten to that.
Do you know who David Senra is,James?

I've never heard of David Senra.
He's something to do withAndrew Huberman, who shared the
episode in his feed as well, andso obviously Huberman's feed is
really big.
The only thing I know about himis that he studies greatness
and understands it.
Oh which doesn't sound awful atall.
It sounds very LinkedIn like,doesn't it?
But yes, so absolutely no ideawho David Senner is.

(09:03):
Note to self, don't appear onDavid Senner's show because
you'll probably lose that jobwithin uh within a week after
going on the show.
That's seemingly what'shappened to Daniel Eck.
But anyway, there we are.
So worth a listen anyway if youwant to uh get behind his uh
thinking.

SamSethi (09:20):
Now we we talked about AI content generation.
It seems that Spotify is wakingup to the idea that music
artists are having their contentAI, I don't know, generated, or
certainly some of the samplingand then reused through AI.
So what have they announced,James?
They've got some new tools,haven't they?

Yeah, they've got some new tools.
It was quite a good blog post,uh, actually, I thought.
Uh I thought it was very uhunderstanding of what the issues
are.
The first bit in the blog post,really, they were talking about
the balance of the differenttypes of AI that there is.

AdamCurry (09:57):
At its best, AI is unlocking incredible new ways
for artists to create music andfor listeners to discover it.
At its worst, AI can be used bybad actors and content farms to
confuse or deceive listeners,push slop into the ecosystem,
and interfere with authenticartists working to build their

(10:18):
careers.
That kind of harmful AI contentdegrades the user experience
for listeners and often attemptsto divert royalties to bad
actors.

So I think they understand what the difficulty
of AI is.
It can be used for good, but itcan also be used for bad.
And I think most interestingwas when they started talking
about transparency and an AItag.
And as I've been saying allalong here, an AI tag that just

(10:48):
says is AI or isn't AI doesn'tnecessarily work.

AdamCurry (10:51):
The industry needs a nuanced approach to AI
transparency, not to be forcedto classify every song as either
is AI or not AI.

And they've come up with a uh standard.
They're working with uh acompany called DDEX, and they
they say that they're going touse it.

AdamCurry (11:10):
We're helping develop and will support the new
industry standard for AIdisclosures in music reddits
developed through DDEX.
This standard gives artists andrights holders a way to clearly
indicate where and how AIplayed a role in the creation of
a track, whether that'sAI-generated vocals,
instrumentation, orpost-production.

(11:32):
This change is aboutstrengthening trust across the
platform.
It's not about punishingartists who use AI responsibly
or downranking tracks fordisclosing information about how
they were made.

And I think again, you know, that that's
something that is importantbecause I think it it's very
easy just to go, oh well, tickAI, and then shows won't be in
in some directories or or youknow, etc.
etc.
But actually it's it's muchmore than that, isn't it?
It's a much more nuancedconversation, as you know,
Janine Wright was saying aswell.

(12:06):
So I thought it was a prettygood post.
I thought being music only isinteresting, and they clearly
don't see that there is aproblem with podcasting.
Perhaps that's because theydon't pay royalties out for
podcasts, I don't know.
But what what were yourthoughts on that, uh Sam?

SamSethi (12:23):
Well, very much in line with what you said.
I think it's nice that theyunderstand the problem.
I think it's good that they seeit not as a black or white AI
or not AI issue.
I've never heard of a DDXmyself.
I did look at it.
As it's an industry standard,I'm not sure how that is
applied.
It'll be interesting to seethat when this comes out and

(12:46):
then whether we, the podcastingcommunity, can adapt it to what
we do within podcasting.
I know various people, Daniel,Jay Lewis, and others have
proposed a podcast disclosuretag.
So it may be something that wecan adapt once we see what
Spotify, YouTube, and othershave used for music.
So again, it's keep those eyespeeled and let's wait and see

(13:09):
what comes back.

Yeah, I will I would certainly agree.
And you know, the one thing Iwould say about any tag is that
they need to be programmaticallyunderstood.
The podcast disclosure tag isutterly useless in the the it's
just raw text in there, so youcan say whatever you like, but
that doesn't help any anysystems understand what to list
and what not to list.
But I think as long as it'sprogrammatically understood,

(13:34):
which it looks as if the thestandard from the music side uh
is, then I think that that willwork quite well.
But yeah, interesting to have alook at that.
Interesting also to have a lookthat YouTube is doing more AI
stuff, a new initiativededicated to exploring the
potential of AI on YouTube.
Basically, they are launching aAI-generated sort of radio DJ

(13:58):
type thing designed to deepenyour listenering, your listening
experience by sharing relevantstories, fan trivia, and fun
commentary about your favoritemusic on the YouTube Music app.
Sign me up.
So that's available in the USonly, and you may be able to
sign up to it on YouTube Labs.
So there's a thing.

(14:18):
And of course, Riverside hasjust launched a new way of
editing your audio, and this Ithink is is quite interesting.
We should have Kendall on theshow next week, I believe.
But talking about uh editingaudio just basically using a
prompt saying, please give me a30-second, you know, a 30-second

(14:39):
clip of this show so that I canshare it on socials and it will
go off and do the 30-secondclip.
So, or please remove all of thefiller words, or please edit
this show down so that it's uhonly an hour and a half long,
all that kind of uh stuff.
So I think that that isinteresting.
So again, you know, AI not allbad, but certainly worthwhile

(14:59):
having a think about in terms ofhow these things work.

SamSethi (15:02):
I think my challenge with all of these AI things is
what I call trust.
Trust that they're gonna do abetter job than me.
Yeah, trust that the outputthat I get is gonna be what I
want, and maybe that's learninghow to better prompt it.
I mean, D Script's gotsomething called Underlord that
does very much the same thing aswell, and we will have Laura

(15:24):
Burkhauser on as well, the newCEO.
So I'm not sure.
I mean I'm still you use AI, Ithink, more than I do right now.
You're you're more comfortablewith it.
I'm not a Luddite, but I'm I'malso somebody who looks at it
and goes, I could probably dothis quicker and better myself
still.
And so I'm not quite there withit.

Yes, no, I agree.
I I've not used AI that much,to be honest.
I'd like to, you know, explorea little bit more, play a little
bit more with it, particularlyfor incoming email, which I
think is a real benefit there,but haven't yet understood,
frankly, where the where theAPIs are that I can use that
won't cost me an arm and a leg.
So, you know, still still sortof working on that.

SamSethi (16:07):
Yeah, well, we'll need to talk to both of them about
AI credits and how much you haveto pay.
Yes, exactly.
You use AI credits withWondercraft, don't you?
So you know how that modelworks very well.

Yes, indeed.
And yeah, so you know,Wondercraft works very well, and
I should thank Wondercraft forvoicing the bit of the Spotify
blog just then.
But yes, I I I think that, youknow, AI is a fascinating tool
if used well, but uh, as withany of these things, you can use
it badly as well.

SamSethi (16:34):
Now, let's move on.
Fresh air.
No, we're not talking about uhjust you know things in the
vapor.
It's a company.
Neil Cowling is the founder andCEO, and Neil contacted us
about the fact that they aremoving into more branded
podcasts.
They also have moved intooriginal podcasts as well.
Have you come across Fresh Airmuch, James, yourself?

Yes, they've been exhibiting at the podcast show
over the last uh few years.
I've had some nice chats withuh Neil as well.
They're a really interestingand clever company and working
more around measuring theirsuccess based on listen time and
attention rather thandownloads.
They must have been talking to.

(17:17):
The good folk at Bumper, youcaught up with Neil and you
started off by asking Neil, whoare Fresh Air?

Yes, so Fresh Air is a specialist podcast company
for brands.
So we are an agency for brands,both on the production side of
podcasting and also on the mediaside.
We came for many years frombeing a traditional radio indie,
and then about 10 years ago,decided to focus very much on
this branded space.
We our first client was theNational Trust in the UK, and

(17:48):
then built from there into doinglots of corporate work for
brands like Barclays orHewlett-Packard Enterprise or
wide variety of both finance andtech and cultural companies, so
really wide range of companiesthat we now make podcasts for
and decided to make brands verymuch our thing.

SamSethi (18:09):
So, with branded podcasts, is this something that
people are now understandingthat this is the way forward
where they can get theircommunication out, or is it an
education process that you'restill having to get people
understanding that podcasts area good means of communication?

Come a long way.
For a long time, I had to startevery pitch by explaining what
a podcast was.
So thankfully I don't have todo that anymore.
So, yeah, that was startingfrom a low base at that point.
A much, much more recognizedmedium, of course, but it's
still a very misunderstoodmedium.
I think there's a lot ofbrands.
We sort of went through aprocess during COVID, huge

(18:47):
growth, a lot of brands whowanted to get into podcasts
because podcasts were cool andbecause they also had a lot of
brands during COVID had a videobudget that they couldn't spend,
and therefore they decided tomake a podcast.
But there were also a lot ofvanity projects during that
time.
So there were just a lot ofprojects where we made a podcast
and we enjoyed it and the brandloved it, but we couldn't

(19:10):
really justify at the end whythey'd done it.
You know, it was difficult tomeasure, the ROI was difficult
to quantify.
So we've had to come a long wayfrom that point of really
helping brands to understand,okay, so you want to make a
podcast, but what is that goingto achieve?
How are we going to measure it?
How are we going to prove thatit's successful?
And how are we going to do itin a way that genuinely

(19:32):
entertains people and informspeople, but also treads the
tightrope between doing that andgetting a piece of
communication out there.
So it neither is it a longadvert, but also neither is it
just a vanity project thatdoesn't work for the brand.
So that's been quite aneducation for everybody

(19:52):
involved.
And the brands that we haveworked with who've done it long
term have done it reallybrilliantly and really built up
their understanding of whypodcasting works.
But I still find that everytime we speak to a new brand, we
have to start from that lowbase.
Okay, so it's not what is apodcast, but there's still a
huge education piece to be doneon how this medium works and why

(20:16):
a brand should get involved.

SamSethi (20:18):
You talk about metrics to measure.
I mean, how are you measuringsuccess?
Because each brand will have adifferent thing.
Is it brand awareness?
Is it number of downloads?
Is it an advertising revenuereach?
What's the metric that they'reusing?

It's a lot of brand awareness, often brand
awareness and thought leadershipand building authority in a
particular space.
So most brands that we workwith, they're not looking to
create something that is numberone in the podcast charts.
They're looking to createsomething that speaks to a niche
audience and gives themsomething really useful.

(20:50):
So, for instance, the show thatwe make for Barclays is aimed
entirely at mortgage brokers.
So it's presented by PhilSpencer, who's quite famous in
the UK in the property sector.
So he has a bit of celebritysparkle, but the topic is really
tightly controlled and reallytightly targeted at a specific

(21:10):
group of people.
So that audience are reallyvaluable to Barclays.
And therefore we measure itthrough, yes, it's downloads,
but it's also the brand, they dobrand studies to understand how
that group of people areregarding Barclays as opposed to
how they they used to regardthem.
Listen through rates areobviously really important.

(21:30):
And we use the measure that DanMeisner at Bumper came up with
a while ago, that sort of costper minute of attention.
And that always just starts tohelp brands to understand that
that investment is all aboutattention and the amount of time
that that really valuableaudience is spending with the
brand.
So it's quite rare that we'repurely looking at downloads.

(21:55):
On a branded piece, you'relooking far more carefully that
level of attention and the valuethat you're giving that niche
audience.

SamSethi (22:03):
100% agree.
That's the metric that peopleshould be using.
Because as Dan says, adownload's not a listen.
So it doesn't really matter.
Now you've also gone intooriginal content production
recently.
Why is that?

It was to broaden the range of types of work that
we do.
It's not a huge diversion awayfrom the branded work because
we're known for branded andwe're experts in the branded.
And my worry with originals hasalways been that it's a
distraction from the core ofwhat we do.
So it's sort of dropped in ourlaps a little bit.
It's called That's Just Wildwith Steve Backshaw, who's a

(22:38):
brilliant and and sort of heroicwildlife presenter.
So we saw there was a gapthere, and it's also sort of
flexing different types ofcreative muscles from our point
of view.
So we think there are modelsfor funding original content
that probably haven't been fullyexplored yet.
And so at the moment, this is atraditional original where

(23:02):
we're building it up fromscratch and we're funding it
through advertising andsponsorship.
But the beauty of what we do,of course, is we have
conversations with brands andplatforms a lot.
So we are able to hopefully seesources of advertising and
sponsorship that others wouldn'tspot.

SamSethi (23:20):
So you talk about other means of funding it.
What are they?

Well, I'm interested in looking towards
brands really broadly to see howthey can fund original work in
the future.
We've not gone down thecommissioning model very much.
We've not really worked verymuch for Wonder and elsewhere,
but we do work, for instance,for platforms such as the New
York Times and the Wall StreetJournal and TripAdvisor and BBC

(23:47):
StoryWorks.
And so that's one route for usof making work for publishers
who work for brands.
But I also think there areprobably models for funding
podcasts and original work thathaven't even been touched on
yet.
I think if you look at TV,there are barter models, for
instance, the where programs aremade and media is exchanged and

(24:11):
sold at a profit.
And those are ways thatprograms get funded through
intermediaries.
And yes, they're morecomplicated than the traditional
podcast models, but they'rereally unexplored.
And I really think there areways of working with talent, for
instance, that haven't beenexplored.
If we're looking at big globaltalent who really need good

(24:34):
money, big money to make apodcast, then they're not going
to be in it to make odds andsods of money along the way.
But when we're talking toreally big talent, we need to
find ways of getting brandsinvolved from the off so that

(24:58):
those shows can be fundedthrough a combination of
sponsorship and live events andall sorts of other routes that
get them the funding and themoney that they need right from
the start to get involved,rather than this idea of having
to wait, you know, six monthsbefore it pays for itself,

(25:19):
because clearly top-level talentaren't in it for that.
So it's a funny one because Idon't even know what the end
model will be at the moment.
We're sort of working on it andthinking it through and
exploring it.
But there will be models emergein the next year, 18 months
that I think hopefully sort offill the gap left by Wonder and

(25:41):
move us beyond just thinkingthat there are only two routes
to making originals, which aread funded or commissioner.
There's something in the middlethere that we're all trying to
work out.
And it's sort of fun to work itout, but it's definitely it
definitely involves brands.
It definitely involves somesort of TV type model and brand
funded type model that will cometogether.

SamSethi (26:03):
One of the things that I've heard is that you talk
about working with originaltalent or high-value talent, is
they're often contracted tothings like YMU or other
agencies.
So how do you deal with that?
Because obviously you're nowhaving to include them in the
splits of the revenue funding,maybe, and or get them out of

(26:23):
contract.
I mean, what's thecomplications of working with
celebrity?

I think agencies like YMU and big talent agencies
in many ways hold the key tomaking these models work.
Because there's no point intrying to fight against the
relationships that talent havewith their agencies.
We often get approached byagencies saying, My talent wants
to make a podcast.
Can you find the brand thatwill fund it, please?

(26:49):
It's never quite that easybecause approaching a brand
completely blind with an ideathat doesn't exist yet and
asking them to pay for it isn'tthe easiest route to market.
What we start with is whatassociations does your talent
already have?
Because those agencies oftenhave long-term relationships
with brands, and brands want toget involved with talent.

(27:13):
But if that relationshipalready exists, then that's a
far easier starting point.
So I don't see the agents as abarrier to making these things
happen.
YMU have been trailblazers fora long time in creating talent.
They're obviously workingreally closely.
They've obviously helped Fernbuild Happy Place, high
performance, you know, was a YMUproduct.

(27:34):
Davina's obviously closely inwith Stephen Butler and Flight
Story now.
So all those things can cometogether really well.
And also those agencies knowthat if they get it right, it's
a really good brand extensionfor their talent as well.
So all these things are comingtogether to create new models.
And brands are definitely inthat.

(27:56):
But they're nervous.
They're nervous about whetherthis medium works for them.
They're nervous about theamount of investment that it can
take.
And, you know, not all podcastsare going to be smash hits
overnight, but especially whenyou're talking to brands because
they have brands, you know,they work on a sort of annual

(28:19):
budget.
So they're not necessarily init for the next five years.
They're saying, okay, if Ilaunch a podcast in January, how
quickly will it be huge?
And what talent can I workwith?
And again, if that podcastdoesn't already exist, they're
taking a gamble for a bigaudience or a big investment to
raise an audience.
So having talent and havingagents behind that talent

(28:42):
tightly involved is a reallyhelpful piece of insurance for
them to make it work.

SamSethi (28:47):
Are you getting demand for video-based podcasting
rather than audio-basedpodcasting?
Where's the line now fallingfor you?

It's all video, if I'm honest.
We very rarely, when we'retalking to brands, we very
rarely get a brief that doesn'tinvolve video.
And that's two reasons.
And I I don't think it's a badthing.
When I think about theevolution of branded podcasts in
the last 10 years, there was asort of slow build-up.
Then there was COVID when I sayit went huge, and everything
was all was really audio duringCOVID.

(29:15):
Then there was a bit ofpost-COVID, there was a bit of a
period with brands of, oh,everyone's got a podcast now.
So it's a bit old hat.
We'll go back to making ourvideos.
What video's done with brandsis make it feel like a premium
product again.
And they see Dire CEO or theysee high-quality video podcasts,
and it helps them to grasp alittle more how that can feel

(29:39):
premium.
The other thing it does with abrand is make a podcast content
engine at the heart of theirstrategy.
So when they're looking at alltheir content and thinking, how
do I feed the machine that youknow I'm being asked to create
all this content that has mybrand on it and aligns with my
brand, a podcast that's Videofeeds into all those channels

(30:03):
because obviously you'recreating a long form video for
YouTube, you're creating thepromotional clips that go
alongside it, all of that can goout on the brand's social
channels.
If you're just making an audioproduct, it only lives in the
audio channels.
So I'm an audio snob.
I spent 30 years in radiobefore doing this, but fresh air
is becoming as much of a videocompany as it is an audio

(30:24):
company.
And that's keeping up with thedemand.
And also just answering thatquestion of why make a podcast?
And the answer is it's acontent engine that churns out
all this stuff for you and somemultiple channels in a way that
an audio podcast unfortunatelydoesn't.

SamSethi (30:42):
Do you find that you are courted by Spotify and or
YouTube because Spotify is theupstart, the young, hungry video
podcasting platform?
Do they knock on your door andsay, hey Neil, can we have it
here exclusive?
Or hey Neil, what have you gotthat we can use?
Or is it a case of you havingto go to them now?

A bit of both.
I think it's it's obviouslyyou're right, Spotify is hungry
for video content.
And therefore, that's drivingboth the expectation, again,
from the clients, from thebrands, they want to be on
Spotify.
They want their podcast to bebig on Spotify.
And in truth, Spotify are onlyreally interested in promoting

(31:27):
content that is video.
So those two things kind offeed into each other.
It helps it helps just kind ofcreate this swirl of demand and
supply that is really just meanswe are making video content in
order to get it promoted onSpotify, but we're also making

(31:47):
it from the brand's point ofview to help it go big.
And on YouTube, most of thetime, brands have their own
YouTube channels.
So again, it's sort of feedingthat demand.
If we take legal in general, isan example of a client that we
work with, and they are lookingto create content for young
people to build themselves asturdy financial future and

(32:11):
speak to people really sort ofcertainly under 40 about how to
build solid finances.
YouTube is the channel forthat.
Most people maybe will watchthat video on YouTube and then
open another tab and listen toit.
So it's still an audio productin a sense.
But if a brand isn't puttingtheir podcast on YouTube these

(32:32):
days, then again, they'remissing a trick.
There's a whole channel therethat they're not getting the
full value for what they'repaying us.

SamSethi (32:39):
So where do you see the next stage of all of this
then?
Where do you see the brandedpodcast evolving into?
Is it going to just be thisagain rinse and repeat, or is
there a model that we can evolveinto?

With branded podcasts, I think there will
there will be one angle thatgoes bigger and bigger.
So if we take Dish, which Ithink is the sort of gold
standard really for a massmarket branded podcast, you
know, what the guys have donewith that show is extraordinary.
Lots of brands want the nextDISH because they want it to go
huge and for their content tobecome what their kids see on

(33:22):
Instagram and what they see onInstagram.
So I think there will be biggerand bigger shows like that that
are more ambitious and have bigtalent.
Like I say, whether they willbe funded to that degree or
whether those of us who do thishave to find ways of making
bigger and bigger shows withmore modest budgets, I'm not

(33:44):
sure.
I would like to think that someof those bigger shows and
bigger brands come together withreally significant budgets.
Because you're, you know, Dishis a TV show, really.
It's got a lot of fundingbehind it.
But that shows the ambitionthat Waitos had with it.
And I would love to see morebrands do Waitros and create

(34:08):
something of that scale.
But at the other end, I alsothink that this attention metric
and this attention economy isreally important.
And the more that brands cangrasp the idea that high
attention media has a reallygood value to it, the more that
branded podcasts will beeffective and be popular.

(34:33):
ACast and other platforms likeACAST have done a brilliant job
at making podcasts a kind ofeasy, lazy buy for media
agencies.
The key really to whether brandpodcasts are successful and
grow in the future is whetherthose media agencies can be more
ambitious with what theycreate.

(34:53):
Because it's very easy whenyour brand goes to their agency
and says, I've got X amount ofmoney to spend, I can fancy
doing something in podcasting.
It's very easy for that mediaagencies to say, great, okay,
well, we'll stick that onto aCPM, another line on the
spreadsheet, and it goesalongside the radio and the TV

(35:14):
and the outdoor without any morethought behind it.
But you know, dish doesn't comeout of that mindset.
And the sorts of work that wemake doesn't come out of that
mindset.
If an agency can think, okay,how can I make something really
exciting that will win us awardsand that the brand will love
and will make a really big noisein this medium?

(35:35):
Then they need to think beyondjust chucking it on the
spreadsheet.
They really need to think aboutwhat's the alignment with
talent, what's the objectivethat this podcast could create
that could make something reallyunique and could turn into the
next big Spotify podcast and thenext big Spotify video?
What's going to create apodcast that spills content for

(35:59):
the next three years across allour social channels?
And how does it sit right inthe middle of that strategy?
So encouraging media agenciesand their clients to view
podcasting as an exciting,adventurous, ambitious place is
the key to creating a reallystrong future for branded

(36:20):
podcasts.

SamSethi (36:21):
One of the things that James and I have been reporting
on recently is the use ofAI-hosted podcasting.
Now, there is a company who ischucking out the front door
3,000 SEO-based podcasts a week,right?
And they're using AI togenerate the content.
Do you think that you mightmove down the road with brands

(36:41):
to an AI-driven host?
Because celebrity is anexpensive acquisition, it has
complications, there aretime-bound limits around
celebrity.
Would you rather move to acreating an AI host that has a
character that eventually, youknow, if you look at something
like Go Compare, the characteris a character of it, and the

(37:03):
mere cats are a character of thebrand.
Could you envisage creating anAI host that is a character that
fronts a brand?

Well, when you put it like that, I suppose so.
I mean, I I'm sorry, I didn'tmean to.
No, no, no.
I think it's it's reallyinteresting.
Last year we made a show forWendy's called The Burger Files,
which was a spoof true crimeshow about the crimes that take
place in theory of burger bars.
And so that was pure comedy andpure character-driven.

(37:35):
And so I suppose in thatscenario, I can imagine using AI
voices because it's quick andcould you know it works with a
script rather than conversation.
I really struggle, like I say,that sort of niche podcasting
for a super interested audiencewhere engagement and

(37:57):
understanding of a niche topicis really important.
You know, I can see why an AIpresenter could scrape all the
information they needed off theinternet.
But what brands come to us foris a really genuine connection
between the brand and theaudience.
And I think it's hard enoughanyway to think why would

(38:18):
someone listen to a podcastbrought to you by a brand?
Because there's a sort oftransactional relationship there
that everyone understands isgoing on.
So you're already asking peopleto say, here's a podcast
created by X brand who obviouslyhave a sort of ulterior motive
to create the show, but theyalso have something useful and

(38:42):
interesting to show you, andtherefore this is worth your
time.
The idea that you would bringan AI presenter in seems to make
that such a transactionalrelationship that it really
wouldn't be worth the investmentfor the brand.
So all we really have to tradeon is that human voice, that
human understanding, that humanrelationship.

(39:03):
So I can't imagine it, and Ican't imagine myself being happy
getting out of bed in themorning to create AI podcast for
brands.
But then who knows?
In five years' time, it mightbe all we do.

SamSethi (39:16):
I'm 100% with you, but we did interview Michael
Parkinson's son, Mike Parkinson,about using Michael Parkinson's
voice for a podcast.
It was very weird havingMichael Parkinson interview
people again, but it was MichaelParkinson's voice.
You could understand that.
Very odd.
Anyway, let's let's move awayfrom that.
So if I want to see more aboutFresh Air, where would I go,

(39:37):
Neil?

So it's freshair.audio is the website,
and we're pretty big onLinkedIn.
We do a weekly newsletter, soyou can find out all about us on
there.
And yeah, we are always in themarket for brands who want to
speak to us, for brands who wantto explore podcasting, and
anyone else who's got a messagethey want to get out in this
brilliant medium.

SamSethi (39:57):
So are you going to be any of the big events?
So you're going to be in NewYork for podcast movement, are
you going to be at the LondonPodcast Show?
Are you going to be anywhereelse?

We're always at the podcast show.
I'm going to Atar Festival inRiyadh in October, which is
really interesting.
I think there's some reallyinteresting work going on in the
Middle East, and particularlyin this sort of arena that we
do, is a place that I think hasa lot of potential to explore
that meeting of brands andaudio.
Yes, and we'll be at Cannes, atMedia360, at Madfest, lots of

(40:26):
the marketing shows rather thanpodcast-specific shows.
But yeah, you can normally findthis in bright t-shirts,
thoroughly branded up at thoseevents.

SamSethi (40:36):
Excellent.
Neil Cowling, founder of FreshAir.
Thanks a lot.

Pleasure.
The Pod News Weekly Review withBuzzSprout.
With Buzz Sprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.

SamSethi (40:49):
Soundstack has launched its HLS for podcasting.
Now, HLS is something that thePodcast Standards Group's been
trying to promote.
I've been certainly banging thedrum longer than that about how
I think HLS is the way forward.
There is something called lowlatency HLS as well.

(41:10):
And it's good to see thatSoundstack has, with its
increased CDN, I think aboutthree or four months ago, they
they increased the capacity oftheir CDNs by co-locating in
London and Far East and otherplaces.
So, James, did you have achance to read the press release
from Soundstack?

Yeah, indeed.
It's a really interesting pressrelease.
It it highlights the benefitsand the capabilities of HLS as
being faster playback start,better monetization, expanded
content options, for example,live and that sort of thing, as
well as multiple formats, audioto video, automatic bandwidth

(41:49):
adjustment, and more accuratemeasurement.
So there are lots of goodreasons why HLS is a good thing.
Of course, this works when youhave access to an internet
connection rather thandownloads, because you can still
download an HLS file, but itjust turns into a download at
that point.
But there are some veryinteresting things in there.

(42:12):
I guess the question from mypoint of view is it's it's only
supported by a few podcast apps,TrueFans being one of them, of
course.
And so I suppose the questionis, well, why why are they doing
it if hardly anybody supportsit?
But I guess you know there is achicken and an egg thing here,

(42:32):
and and they've and they've youknow announced it and are moving
on.

SamSethi (42:37):
Well, I think there's a background story to this.
Obviously, Rocky Thomas and Imet probably well, we certainly
met at the Lon Poca show with alarge m conting of the
Soundstack team, and we wentthrough a lot of what HLS could
or could not deliver.
Um I have one concern issue.
I'm not sure what the rightword is.

(42:59):
If you use the sameinfrastructure that you
currently deliver MP3, MP4 for,you're not going to save any
money.
You're actually going toincrease the amount of money you
spend because you're creatingmultiple stored versions of the
same audio or video file.
So you're creating 320, 720,4K, whatever.
So you're not actually savingany money.

(43:21):
So my question has always beenwhere's the money value saving?
Because if all you're doing isspeeding up the user experience
by a nanosecond, I think ToddCochran said it many times, you
know, there isn't actually auser, you know, concern or
problem.
You know, he didn't have peoplegoing, oh, that video didn't

(43:41):
play quick enough, or thatpodcast didn't play quick
enough.
So there wasn't a driver fromthe user experience side that
says let's make HLS work becausethe current model doesn't work.
So for me, yes, all thebenefits of auto-detecting the
bandwidth, the ability to havepreload, which is what

(44:02):
fundamentally allows the quickspeed of the video or the audio
to play because you've preloadedsix seconds.
So I like all of that.
I think the only value for me,as somebody who's looking at
this quite closely, has to bethat the download of a complete
episode may be, let's say, 50meg or 100 meg for this show.

(44:22):
If we then have HLS andsomebody only streams 80% of
this show, then you've actuallysaved the amount you've
downloaded.
So that then means companieslike Soundstack have to model
their payment structure aroundthe amount downloaded and give a
measurement.
So I might have a half terabytecapability for my entry level

(44:47):
as a creator, and I need toknow, therefore, if I'm
downloading or people aredownloading my episode or
streaming my episode, sudostreaming, then I'm actually
saving money, or I'm savingbecause I'm not using up all my
bandwidth because the downloadisn't completely the episode.
That's the only value in it tobegin with.

And you have to build well, the only the only
value really is i is in it forthe podcast hosting company.
Yeah.
And it uh that won't be passedon to the consumer because blame
you, how complicated would thatbe?

SamSethi (45:24):
Uh I wouldn't say that.
Uh I think watch is space.

Well, okay.
Well, well, I'm saying I'msaying from a from an
understanding how the consumerworks point of view, you know,
all I care about is a is adownload.
Now, if if I get more downloadsfor my money, then that's
great.
But that's really all that allthat I really care about, I
suppose.
But I think, yeah, the the theproof really will be in terms of

(45:51):
how many podcast apps startsupporting this sort of thing
and what that means in terms ofyou know in terms of take up.
But I think you know it'll beinteresting to find out, you
know, how that bit works, Isuppose.

SamSethi (46:05):
Now you've undertaken a little experiment, haven't
you, already?

Yes.
So if you want to play aroundwith HLS, I think I've got it
working correctly.
You can the Pod News DailyPodcast has a 320k AAC format
audio file, which is nowdelivered via HLS.
So if you want to uh play withthat, you'll find that in the
alternate enclosures.
One of the things that I havespotted is that I'm not quite

(46:29):
sure how a podcast app issupposed to know whether it's
audio or video, because the theMIME type is exactly the same
for the playlist.
So I'm not quite sure how thatbit works, and I'm hoping to uh
find some some clarity in thespecs in terms of that.
Let's move on, let's go aroundthe world.
And uh in the US, Pew Researchreleased a new podcasts and news

(46:54):
fact sheet.
54% of US adults have listenedto a podcast in the past 12
months, according to thatparticular study.
A third get their news frompodcasts at least sometimes.
Uh interestingly, if you'reRepublican, you trust podcasts
twice as much as if you're aDemocrat.
Not quite sure really why thatmight be.
Is it just because there aremore Republican podcasts out

(47:16):
there, more right-wing podcasts?
I don't know.
But anyway, under 50s and themore educated are more likely to
listen.
It's some good research andworth a read.

SamSethi (47:27):
Related to that was uh there was a report out about
high attention media is moreprofitable for advertisers.
High attention media, what'sthat, James?

Well, I I have always said that radio, for
example, particularly speechradio, is high attention media.
You are listening to it.
So therefore it's verydifficult to close your ears.
So when the ad comes on, youlisten to what the ad says.
In the same way, podcasting ismuch the same sort of thing.
Because it's speech, you'relistening there for the speech.

(47:59):
That's very high attentionmedia in comparison to something
like out of home, somethinglike an ad banner.
This is a this is a verydifferent thing.
So the the so I think we can wecan probably agree that high
attention media, media thatpeople are paying attention to,
is going to work better than lowattention media, than media

(48:20):
that you just you know walk pastor or whatever.
But would the interesting thingthat this study came out is
that ad investment is shiftingaway from the high attention
media off to the low attentionmedia, off to the to the ads
that you skip past on TikTok oron or on X or whatever it is.
And I think that that's reallyquite interesting that the

(48:41):
advertising agencies arespending more money on stuff
that doesn't actually sink in asmuch.
So some good good research, Ithought.

SamSethi (48:51):
In your backyard, James, you're gonna have the
South by Southwest, notliterally in your backyard,
that'd be a very uh busy place,but in Sydney, what's going on?

Yes, this is South by Southwest Sydney, and
um they will have a fulldedicated podcast stage next
month, as well as many otherthings.
I say next month, this month,of course, because we are in
October.
MIK Studio is doing a bunch ofpanels and conversations, so is
uh ACAST as well.
I think I'm gonna be there onthe Thursday, maybe on the

(49:20):
Friday morning as well.
I'm not quite so sure as yet,but I will be popping down to go
to South by Southwest Sydneybecause I've not been there
before.
So that should be quite fun.
There's a South by Southwest inLondon as well, which is a big
thing.
I've never been to a South bySouthwest, so this is a good
start, I thought.

SamSethi (49:39):
Awards and events, James.
What's happening in the worldof awards and events?

Yes, lots of exciting awards going on.
Uh the Signal Awards releasingtheir finalists for this year's
awards.
You can vote for the Listener'sChoice Awards in every
category.
Similarly, the Lovey Awardsannouncing their finalists.
Uh, you can vote for that aswell right now.
If you vote for both of those,then it'll be pretty obvious
that they're run by the samecompany because it's just the

(50:05):
same website with a differentlogo on the top.
So that's pretty that's prettyobvious.
They're both run by theWebbies, in fact.
Right.
But worth a peek at that.
Road has just announced itsCreator of the Year Awards 2025.
Lots of uh prizes to be won inthere as well.
There are the Black PodcastingAwards, which will be held in

(50:27):
person for the first time onFriday, October the 17th.
71 podcasts being nominated forthat as well.
And October the 15th is theIndependent Podcast Awards in
London.
You'll be handing out an awardthere, I believe.

SamSethi (50:43):
Yes, I don't know which one and why or how, but
yes, I will be there.

So that'll be very good.
And in terms of events andthings, there is a Speak Fest,
Night of the Living Podhappening on October the 10th in
Houston in Texas.
And also, well, going on rightnow, you are uh I mean not right
now, but you are in uh Madrid.
Please not right now.

SamSethi (51:08):
Yes, well, when you hear this, yes, that's correct.

So you will be speaking at podcast days in uh
Spain, which I look forward tofinding out more about next
week.

SamSethi (51:18):
Indeed.
If I'm still awake, I've got athree o'clock get up to clap
catch a six o'clock flight, andthen oh boy, what a day.
Oh, well, that a day.

That'll be all okay.
At least you won't be sufferingfrom jokes.

SamSethi (51:30):
I feel like I'm living your life, James, you know.

You must be used to doing that.
At least you won't be sufferingfrom jet lag.

The tech stuff.
On the Pod News Weekly Review.

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday
in the Pod News newsletter.
Here's where Sam talkstechnology.
Bosbrout, our sponsor, has donesomething clever, haven't they?

SamSethi (51:46):
Yes, they've come up with a podcast name generator,
which, you know, I guess that'sa really cool thing to do
because and the other thing,it's free, by the way.
But the name generator, Iguess, is one of those things
when you first have your eurekamoment.
I want to do a podcast.
I had a friend up the road askme about this, and the first
thing I said to her was, let'scheck what other podcasts are

(52:08):
named in the thing you want todo.
And you go, Oh yes, no, you'reokay, you can do it, you can
have that name.
So no, this is quite nice.

Yes, no, indeed.
It's very smart.
I think the big difference isthat it boasts it it both comes
up with names for you, but alsoit checks whether or not the
names already exist.
It uses the podcast index forthat, which is very neat.
I tried typing in, you know, adaily newsletter all about
podcasting, and it came up withdaily pod news update, which I

(52:39):
thought I thought was quiteinteresting.
Don't go using that.
It's my trademark.

SamSethi (52:44):
Surely that's on the blacklist.
Get on to Buzzsproutes.

I'll be very upset.
But there we are.
So it's uh worth a play with.
You can find it by um uh doinga search for Buzz Sprout in the
Pod News newsletter.

SamSethi (52:57):
Now I feel like podcast index, the the board
meeting must be our sisterpublication or something,
because here we go again.
Adam Curry and Dave Jonestalked about Cloudfare
partnering with Coinbase tocreate something called the X402
Foundation.
Uh did you listen to this partof the show, James?

I did not listen to this part of the show.
Uh uh well, I I read and uh asI'm doing for every Monday, I I
am at least reading what theysay in the in the board meeting.
Okay.
But uh yeah, so X402 isessentially, potentially, a way
to enable micropayments forpodcasters.

(53:34):
It allows all kinds of thingsto exchange value on the web as
they call it.
It uses stablecoin and allkinds of exciting things.

SamSethi (53:43):
Well, it doesn't yet.
Oh no, it doesn't use stablecoin.
This is his aspiration to useit, right?
The the roadmap goal.
But what they're they'relooking at is fundamentally the
same as L402.
I don't know why they've calledit X402.
So what you have is a HTTPrequest for let's say you come

(54:04):
to a website, a bot, a crawler,or even a human and you request
content, you get a response backof a 402, which simply says
payment required.
So it's simply saying, no, youcan't access this content.
It's not a 404, there's not anerror, it's a payment required.
And on that challenge, apps canthen say, right, well,

(54:25):
actually, let's not just come upwith this horrible X402 or 402
response.
Let's actually then put in a UIexperience, which is what we
did, Russell and I, with SecureRSS, which is what the basis of
this.
So I've read the documentationnow, it's no different, it's
basically the same back andforth between the content owner
that's requesting an amount.

(54:47):
You then invoice it, it has themacaroon, all the same stuff
that we talked about before.
So it's really cool that theyare applying it because what it
means is I think there is awider community now that will
start to look at this as a wayof having encrypted premium
content, whatever you want tocall it, whatever the word is.
Yes, the eventual goal may wellbe that you want it to have

(55:12):
stable coins when stable coinsbecome much more common fair.
I mean, I know Stripe bought acompany related to stablecoins,
so expect Stripe to implementsomething there.
I also think the other thingthat you have to be aware of, it
can go back to straight fiatmoney.
So the the protocol itself isnot the predeterminant of the

(55:33):
currency.
So it could be could be alightning micropayment, it could
be a stablecoin, or it could bea fiat currency.
The X402 part is just simply achallenge, and then the app has
to do something with it.

Right.
And the reason why it's notL402 and it's X402 is that
Lightning Network released L402.
So L402 is very much focusedaround Bitcoin and Lightning,
whereas X402 is kind ofeverything, is my understanding
of that.
Okay.
But uh yeah, it's it'll beinteresting to see whether or

(56:06):
not that means uh anything forstreaming payments.
You would kind of hope thatthere's something there, but in
terms of paying for content,then potentially there's
something here as well.

SamSethi (56:19):
Yeah, I again I I've made it a very plain goal.
I I want to get rid of Patreon,and now I'm never going to get
rid of Patreon.
But I think the way thatprivate feeds work and the way
that Patreon does it, and theymake a lot of money doing it, is
the market model that I'mafter, because I think you can
put freemium and premium contentin the same feed.

(56:41):
Going back to what we saidabout RSS.com, saying the magic
source of podcasting is RSS.
I still think this is wherehosts can make a lot of money by
hosting premium content, havingthis capability to allow apps
to challenge the content andsay, right, no, this needs a
payment, having that payment,and then the host makes money

(57:03):
from that, just as Patronsmaking it, but you're not having
to send your users over toPatreon to set up another
account to then pop a populate aprivate fee back into your
favorite app.
It's a total mess.
And I think this is the wayforward.
Get off my hobby horse, Sam.

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One, two, three, four SATs fromSilas on Linux uh saying, good

(57:53):
interview with the InceptionPoint person.
I think you mean Janine.
I'm so excited to stoplistening to human-made content
and opinions.
I still have too much humaninteraction in my life, even
though I try to keep it as aminimum.
How good that finally I canonly listen to only computers as
well.
I think he's being sarcastic,something tells me.
But uh, Silas, thank you forthat.

(58:15):
Uh 1701 SATS from BrianEnsminger.
Boosting because I thought Iwas streaming SATS, but my Albi
wallet had disconnected.
Oops.
Thank you, Brian.
Much, much appreciated.

SamSethi (58:25):
We've got 611 SAT from Curecaster.
Similar to podcast guru appslike Castomatic, Cure Caster,
and Podverse all still workbecause they still use Olby.
And the same Olby account workswith all of them like it always
has.
Yes, the the the point I madelast week was it was great to
see not just boosts or supercomments from TrueFans, which we

(58:47):
had for a few weeks.
It was lovely to see Fountain,Podcast Guru, and now
Kurocaster.
So the the death knell ofmicropayments and streaming SATS
seems, you know, a bitpremature.
I think there are complicationsand some stuff that is being
worked through, but I do thinkthe Olby model is still working,

(59:09):
the Keysen model is stillworking within the podcast
community.
What we need to do is evolve itto support LN address without
going into the technicalities.
But that means that you knowall the apps are working on
that, and I think I don't know,six months from now or less, you
know, it won't be an issueagain.

(59:30):
But the the core point I wantedto make was it's lovely to see
more than just one app againsending through boosts and micro
payments.

Yes, no, indeed.
So super helpful with that, andthank you to whoever it is,
because I don't know who it wasin Castomatic.
Uh Customatic.
Yes, I think it may well be.
Anyway, 1234 sats is actuallyhow much we got from there.
I got 50% of that.
I'm not quite sure why.
I'm finding it fascinatingseeing where the where the

(01:00:03):
percentages come in.
Because you get forty-eightpercent, I think, or forty-nine
percent.
I think you get forty-ninepercent, I get forty-nine
percent, and then two percentgoes to podcast index.
I think that's how it works.

SamSethi (01:00:13):
Yeah.
So you asked the question to meactually on email, so we can
reveal behind the curtain whywhy the percentages were not
going the way that you thoughtthey should be.
That's because we haven't gotsupport for full LN address.
So your strike wallet, whichhas a percentage going to it,
doesn't receive it, right?
So what happens is it goes.
What we do is because we don'tsupport it, we then change the

(01:00:36):
percentages, and so you get thepercentage in your umbrella
different to what you would fromsay fountain, which does
support LN address.

JamesCridland (01:00:43):
So it'd be nice to support LN address,
obviously, on on your side alittle bit more.
But I mean, I'm fascinated byI'm fascinated by all of the
splits here because you know, Ican see some here at 50%, some
at 48%, some at 44%.
No idea why I'm gettingdifferent different splits for
everything in here.

I can tell you why, because it'll be the percentage
that also the app might take asa fee.

Uh so there's so TrueFans, TrueFans is keeping 6%
or something by the looks ofthat.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Yeah, I mean, I think we wereat five, but yeah.

I mean, so yeah.

Yeah, well, there you go.
Anyway, moving on.
Seth, 916 sats.
Thank you.
There definitely needs to be anAI tag, and it should be a
standard, especially withJanine's impact with Inception
Point AI's slop.
Your words, not mine.
Seth, thank you for that.
Appreciated.
I think the does, but I thinkit needs to be a little bit more
nuanced.
Lyceum.
Martin saying, giving us 420sats.

(01:01:42):
I have to check out the Museumof Brands, which I mentioned a
couple of weeks ago.
I like serial and radioreceivers.
You meet you and me both.
Have you been to the RadioMuseum in Gothenburg?
Have you checked out the Centrefor Business History in
Stockholm?
No and no.
I have done neither.
I can't think radio museums.
You know, I'm very interestedin radio, but radio museums I'm

(01:02:03):
just not interested in at all.
There's no interest in thatfrom my point of view.
So can I just say you mighthave to cue for no minutes to
get into yes, exactly.
I mean, to be fair, I didn'thave to queue to get into the
Museum of Brands either.
But yes, I I just I yeah, theythey they leave me entirely
cold.
But anyway, Martin, thank you.

(01:02:24):
And uh he's also sent through arow of ducks, 2,222 sats
saying, Congratulations on thefunding.
When are we gonna learn aboutyour funding, Sam?
When are we gonna learn aboutyour funding?

Give me a few more days and we will get there.
There you go.
Just leave me alone for aminute.
Let me enjoy it for Christ'ssake.

Three years of pulling my hair out.
Yes.
Martin also says, How did youcelebrate your birthday?

Nice meal on the river with my partner Jill and uh
some friends, and that's prettymuch it.
It was a it was a quieter onethis year.
Next year's the big halibaloo,so this one was a quiet one.

Oh well.
There you go.
And thank you to everybody whois a power supporter.
You can become a powersupporter too,
weekly.podnews.net.
Lots of excellent people inthere, including John McDermott,
uh, including Neil Vellio,including Jim James and Cy
Jobling.
Thank you to you, andespecially to John Spurlock, who
is our newest and latestperson.

(01:03:19):
Much appreciated, particularlysince I saw some data this week
saying that only six percent ofpodcast listeners subscribe or
donate to their favouritepodcast.
So thank you.
I wonder what that says interms of how many how many
listeners we actually have.
If only six percent.
Yes.
If only six percent are yes, uhdoes that mean that we've only

(01:03:41):
got skewing lower than six,hopefully.
Yes, exactly.
I think that means that we'veonly got 238 listeners, so we've
got more than that.
Anyway, so what's happened foryou this week, Sam?

Well, in light of what's going on with Soundstack,
what I'm doing with Pod 2, andsome of the hints I'm giving you
about new hosting measurementtools, our CDM is live.
You can just play with it ifyou want, it doesn't do
anything.
Cdn.truefans.fm, you can clickon it, it's there, it's live.
So that's where that's going.
The new pricing pages will beup shortly, and you'll be able

(01:04:15):
to get on the wait list andyou'll see how we're changing.
I think the way that you willbe getting your hosting.
But anyway, yeah, we'll seewhen it comes all live.
There you go.

There you go.
And you're building a you'reyou're branching out into some
editorial here.

Well, in line with what we're doing with our
hosting, I think it's equallygood for us to do a high hosting
price comparison feature.
So, why would you host withTrueFans compared to someone
else?
And what can you as a creatorbenefit from?
So, one of the things we aredoing is unlimited podcasts

(01:04:52):
similar to Captivate, and thenwe have a um download streaming
tool that measures the amount ofdata you've used, and so you'll
be able to see within yourtariff how close you are, and
we're going to measure thatagainst other hosts.
So, yeah, just and of course,one of the things we do is we

(01:05:12):
support every podcasting 2.0tag, and so we'll measure what
other hosts do or don't support.

Very nice, very nice.
Well, enjoy enjoy Spain aswell.
Uh, I hope that you uh bumpinto a ton of a ton of people
over there.

If you I would love to just go and play paddle out
there, actually.

I'm sure you would.
I'm sure you would.
What do the Spanish callpaddle?
Padel.
Yes, but what do they reallycall paddle?
That's what it's called.

Right, James.
What's happening for you thisweek, mate?

Well, so I I have been so I I have a media
directory website, which hasbeen going for about 25 years or
so, and costing me an arm and aleg to run at the moment.
And the reason why it's costingme an arm and a leg to run is
that there are lots of naughtystreaming set-top boxes out
there.
You know those set-top boxesthat you can buy from a man down

(01:06:05):
in the pub and it gets um, youknow, 7,000 free TV services on
it.
Well, those are available andthose are pulling all of the
television station logos from mywebsite, it turns out.
So I've tried to send 404errors for all of those uh logos
because it's 97% of all of thetraffic that go that comes out

(01:06:27):
of that website is doing logosfor hooky for hooky uh streaming
boxes.
So I've I've tried to give 404,so that doesn't appear to have
worked.
So now I'm just r replying toevery every request of an image
with a really obnoxious redflashing gif.
And it sits there and itflashes, it flashes, you know,

(01:06:49):
sort of really bright red towhite flashing to really annoy
people.
I did think about puttingsomething worse on there, but I
thought actually just a reallyannoying flashing gif file will
be probably enough.

So we will James, James.
You you need to use X402.
You need to use what Cloudflareis designing.

I I can't use X402 because at the end of the
day, just a 400 error just getsignored by their by their uh
their their uh platforms.
So I can't, you know, sadly Iwould love to do, I would love
to get some money out of it, butthat's clearly not going not
going to happen.
So so my plan there is toreally annoy the users of these

(01:07:30):
of these set-top boxes, andmaybe they will then force.
How do you get rid of all thesehorrible red flashing red
flashing icons?
Yeah.
I mean, I'm assuming that theAndroid set-top boxes, because
they're all Android, aren'tthey?
I'm assuming that the Androidset-top boxes will decode a
flashing GIF file, you know,just you know, perfectly

(01:07:53):
adequately.
And I'm assuming that that willbe much more annoying than just
a broken image, which may justbe hidden on these on these
platforms.
So we will see what effect thatwill have.
But I tell you what, it reallydid make me think that the
amount of money that I'm payingto Amazon for essentially
blocking these these files, it'svery clear that you know, if

(01:08:17):
you if you want to cost acompany a lot of money, then
just sit there and download lotsof lots of files from their
website because it'll it'll costthem an arm and a leg.
So yeah, and there's nothing Ican do about it other than you
know accelerate the amount of uhannoying red red flashing gifts
I'm producing.
So yeah, it's been reallyinteresting.
But yes, anyway, so that's sothat's what I've been doing for

(01:08:40):
most of this week.

So now you all know what James's side hustle is,
right?

I've got no idea.
No idea what you're talkingabout there.
Uh-oh.
Anyway, so that's all good.
And that's it for this week.
All of our podcast storiestaken from the pod news daily
newsletter at podnews.net.

You can support this show by streaming SAS.
You can give us feedback usingthe BuzzSprout thumbnail link in
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supporter like the 23andme,PowerFans at weekly.podnews.net.

Our music is from TM Studios.
Our voiceover is Sheila D.
Our audio is recorded usingCleanFeed.
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