August 31, 2025 • 28 mins
Alex Sanfilippo shares how PodMatch is revolutionizing podcast guest booking through an innovative platform that functions like a dating app for interviews. He explains the platform's unique business model and why he believes community building is the future of podcasting.
• PodMatch connects podcast hosts and guests while automating administrative functions
• The platform charges a small fee to ensure users are serious, creating a "law of buy-in"
• Through the Pod Value Initiative, PodMatch has given back nearly $900,000 to podcasters
• Each profile doubles as a professional media one-sheet with SEO benefits
• Audio content remains powerful because it doesn't intrude on people's busy lives
• Quality content is essential as the barrier to entry remains low
• The "Mom Test" helps podcasters get honest feedback from listeners
• Building community with listeners provides valuable insights for improvement
• Hosts should ask listeners how they found the show, what they like, how to improve, and what problems they need solved
To sign up for PodMatch or access free podcasting resources, visit podmatch.com/free.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sam Sethi (00:00):
Hello and welcome to a very exciting interview.
He is well-known within thepodcast industry.
His name is Alex Sanfilippo,but he's also the founder and
the CEO of Podmatch.
Alex hello, how are you?
Alex Sanfilippo (00:14):
Sam, thank you so much for having me and I'm
doing really well, Excited to behere with you today.
Sam Sethi (00:17):
Yeah, we met a few years back at one of the podcast
movements and you've beenrocking it out ever since.
So look, let's start off with.
What is Podmatch?
Alex Sanfilippo (00:28):
Yeah, so Podmatch is a software we
created just out of a need wesaw in the industry, which is
basically a way to connectpodcast guests and hosts for
interviews, and I know that welive in a world where there's
plenty of people wanting to be aguest and hosts have a lot of
options.
Right, the idea is connectingthe right podcast guest and the
right podcast host togetherfaster, while handling a lot of
the administrative functionsautomatically throughout it,
(00:49):
because there's just a lot ofthings we do every single time.
So the whole idea wasconnecting the right people
faster and basically, for anyonewho's not heard of it, kind of
the easiest way to describe isit works kind of like a dating
app, but instead of connectingfor dates, it connects for
podcast interviews.
Granted, sam, I have beenmarried too long to be ever on a
dating app, but I'm told thatthey work very similar.
Sam Sethi (01:05):
Just in case the wife hears this interview.
Alex Sanfilippo (01:07):
Right Good answer.
Sam Sethi (01:08):
Thank you, yes, I don't know what you mean by
swipe, right, honey?
I haven't a clue what thatmeans.
Alex Sanfilippo (01:15):
You know I got to share a real funny story, Sam
.
I'll make it brief, but when wefirst launched Podmatch is when
some of the generative AI stufffirst started coming out.
It was early 2020.
And a lot of the banks were thefirst ones to use this.
When it came to the descriptionof your subscription that you
had, so Podmatch was gettingclassified actually as a dating
app, and so it regularly showedup as matchcom or something
(01:37):
another one that I'm notfamiliar with.
It was similar to that and wehad people emailing us saying,
hey, can you please tell my wifethat I do not have a
subscription to a dating app,because she saw it on the credit
card and that's your fault.
And we're like, oh no, it was amess to organize.
That was probably our first bigproblem we had, but the banks
were automatically categorizingit and it's funny that they made
that decision.
So anyway, I have.
Sam Sethi (01:56):
I have the same problem.
So through fans, my own app,most people go.
Is that only fans?
Yes, a lot of people ask methat as well.
So, yes, mismatching, as theysay.
Now talking of matching people,though.
So PodMatch, how does it work?
Do I rock up, I register myselfand then other people say, yes,
I'd like to interview you, orhow do I, as a creator, find
(02:18):
people?
So tell me how the wholeprocess works.
Alex Sanfilippo (02:21):
Yeah, sure, we have two models.
We have the individual side andwe have the agency model as
well.
I'll skip the agency modeltoday, but basically I will just
briefly mention if you're abooking agent, whether you're
booking people on podcast orbooking guests on podcast.
Either way, we have an agencymodel.
That's good for people.
But the individual side isreally the core of what we do.
And, yes, if you're a host, youwould just go to the website and
you'd start the sign up processand it'll walk you through all
(02:42):
the different things that weneed basically for our system
the algorithm, the AI to doreally good matching and same on
the guest side, if someone'slike, well, maybe I have a
podcast but I also want to be aguest.
Same thing, and you can haveone login with both those sides
of the account.
But the whole thing is rightwhen you go to the website, we
want to be very intuitiveautomatically start and you can
(03:03):
message in the platform, you canschedule in the platform.
You never have to exchange anemail if you don't want to, and
that's kind of the beauty ofstreamlining and automating the
process for both sides of themicrophone.
But, right, when you'refinished, you end up with a very
beautiful one sheet, whetherthat's for you as an individual,
as a podcast guest, or as apodcast host or as both, but
regardless, you've got thesebeautiful high ranking on search
engines and on AIs now profilethat you can use as a media one
(03:25):
sheet for your show or for youas an individual, and that's one
of the things that we don'treally talk about as a benefit
on Podmatch, but the reality isthat's been good for a lot of
people because once again,questions.
It would usually come in likehey Alex, I need pictures of you
for this interview Great, myPodmatch profile has, where you
can literally download approvedpictures.
Oh, you want my bio?
Great, it's on my profile.
You want questions?
I'm ready to be asked.
It's there.
And same on the flip side formy show.
(03:46):
You want to understand theaudience, the flow, who I'm
looking for.
It's all listed in that oneplace and that's all mentioned
and asked during the signupprocess of a pod match.
Sam Sethi (03:55):
Okay, and does this give me good SEO as well?
Can I use my profile forsomething that people can find
me on outside of Podmatch with alink back to the profile?
Alex Sanfilippo (04:09):
Yes, absolutely , and every profile doubles as
an affiliate link.
So somebody goes to yourprofile and they see the public
version of it.
It shows a little bit lessdetail than the internal version
.
So if you're signed up forPodmatch but it does prompt
people, hey, if you want tointerview this guest or if you
want to be a guest on thispodcast, click here to sign up
and then it'll automaticallywork as that person's affiliate
link.
But from an SEO perspective, weworked with a couple different
experts on this and I didn'teven know what schema markup is
and I know this is an SEOpodcast and, sam, I know you
(04:31):
know that world well but thatwas apparently a thing that we
were overlooking.
We're like, hey, if you wantthis to rank higher in search
engines, you want the largelanguage model AIs to be able to
figure out who somebody isbased off a Podmatch profile.
You've got to work on thisstuff.
So we have put a lot of timeand energy into it.
We still are to help that, helpsomebody rank higher, and the
idea is it will just increasetheir authority as an individual
(04:52):
and we can kind of see like thefuture of search is going
toward the individual'scredibility, and so we wanted to
be able to help that.
We had somebody recently leavePodmatch, which is always
upsetting to me, but they saidhey, what did you all do to me?
I'm like what do you mean?
They're like my websitevisitors went down.
My podcast listenership wentdown.
Like, did you do that to mebecause I left Podmatch?
I'm like no, that's just abyproduct of no longer having a
high ranking profile on thosetwo places.
(05:14):
It was probably your bestranking profile on the internet
and that was something we reallywanted to do just as a bonus
for everybody.
So to me, it's really important.
Sam Sethi (05:22):
So is this aimed at independent podcast creators or
is this aimed at the bigpodcasters?
Who's the target audience?
Alex Sanfilippo (05:31):
Thank you for asking that, sam.
I don't know if anyone's everasked me that, but it's the
independent creator.
Me personally, I'm anindependent creator myself.
I have my own show and I justlove being an individual creator
and I believe in the power thathas in the world.
Like together, right?
Sure, there's one show thatmight be bigger than all of ours
combined almost right.
But the reality is I reallylove the heart behind what an
(05:52):
individual does and how itserves people.
So we're always gonna be allfor the individual, the small,
independent podcaster.
And when I go to conferences Idon't try to meet the keynotes
of the big names, not that tomeet the keynote to the big
names, not to have anythingagainst them.
Of course they're great,everyone wants to meet them,
everyone wants to sign theirshow right For me, I want to
meet the new person 10, 20episodes in that has a real
passion, a real purpose for it,and that's who I know that I can
serve really well and that'swhat gets me up in the morning
(06:15):
and gets me really excited to bein this space.
Sam Sethi (06:17):
So, with Podmatch, is there a payment requirement
from the guest or the host interms of because one of the
things that I've been approachednumerous times oh, we can get
you on a show, but it'll costyou so much money, right?
And I'm like, nah, I'm okay,I'll just bring them.
If I really want to be on thatshow, I'll connect with them,
and if I have value, as in whatI've got to say, they'll have me
(06:41):
as a guest, and if I haven'tgot value, then I'm not paying
for it, right?
So where's the money flow inthis?
Alex Sanfilippo (06:47):
Yeah, we do things very I don't know.
I don't want to call it likeanti.
Well, you know, it's just it'snot common, it's not
conventional wisdom when itcomes to software, and I've been
told we don't do it right bymany people.
So I know that if you out, butwe actually have no free tier,
we have no trial, it's you payand then you can start, and
(07:08):
we've done that since thebeginning, just not since the
beginning, actually.
We did that maybe a year in,and the weird thing is when I
did that, our amount of signupsorganically quadrupled overnight
.
And still this day we grow,mostly organically, and it just
basically kind of weeds outpeople that maybe aren't serious
, aren't ready yet, but thepricing can always change, but I
don't foresee that everhappening, on the host side at
the very least.
So on the host side, it's $6 amonth to be a host on Podmatch.
(07:31):
That's unlimited matches, asmany or as few as you want.
So we have some people that dodaily podcasts, we have some
people that do a monthly episode, and so it's as much or as
little as you want.
But the one thing that we addedis we call it our pod value
initiative.
So if you're a podcast host onthe platform through a pod value
initiative which you'reautomatically enrolled into.
We actually pay podcast hostswho use the platform and it's
not a whole lot, but the goal isto help them offset their
(07:53):
production cost.
We charge $6 a month for law ofbuy-in.
I did some personal trainingmany years ago, sam, and I've
learned that all of my worstclients were the ones I gave a
deal to or the ones I trainedfor free.
They never took it seriously.
They never really were willingto invest in themselves because
I told them you don't need to be, just come and I'll help you
however I can.
And so when it came topodcasting, we realized the same
thing.
We charge $6 a month not tomake $6 a month off of you.
(08:16):
We give it back to you, plus alot more.
I just need to know that you'reserious.
If you can't pull up yourwallet, I can't pull mine out
for you.
And so our goal is to break amillion dollars back in the
hands of podcasters, and at timeof recording, we're just over
$900,000 we've given back and soreally excited about that.
Like that's been a goal fromday one and it's just our way of
helping them offset theproduction costs, because
there's money involved inpodcasting.
(08:38):
Now, on the guest side, alicia,my wife she's the one who knows
the numbers really well, so,forgive me, I don't actually
know how much it costs, butwe've done our best to keep it
very affordable as well.
That way we can have peoplethat have real stories,
independent people.
We don't want it to.
We don't want to remove peoplefrom the platform or keep them
from getting on if they can'tafford it.
So we kept it a price pointthat's affordable to make sure
that people would be able tojoin and again share
(08:59):
authentically that independentcreator, that person who maybe
has a newer business or justdoesn't have a lot financially,
but they have a really goodstory.
So we've done our best to keepthe whole thing affordable and
that's going to be our long-termgoal.
We don't have this futurepricing structure that's going
to increase it over time.
We want to make sure that it'sgood for everybody.
We want to be people that arereally serious.
Sam Sethi (09:17):
Okay, so describe a little bit more to me.
So I'm a guest, I've registered, I've put Is this like Calendly
?
Get a request for time?
Are you integrated with thingslike Riverside or Descript?
How much of the workflow is anintegrated process and how much
(09:39):
do I have to do individuallywith the tools that I probably
use today?
Alex Sanfilippo (09:43):
Yeah well, sammy, you might know this, but
a lot of podcast hosts, theylike to keep a lot of it manual.
But we found that on PodMatchwe've been doing a good job with
the training side of things.
To explain that like you don'thave to.
So if you want to automate allof it, the way it works is
whoever receives the initialmessage has the right of first
acceptance or refusal.
So, like again, if a host reachout to a guest, the guest says
(10:05):
match or pass.
They get to read the message.
You can have some conversation.
But let's just assume that theguest is like you know what this
seems like a fit.
I'll hit match.
The next thing happens youautomatically get brought into
the host workflow, which isalways how it works.
Right.
The host is the platform.
You and I fully believe that,like that's, that's the
foundation of it.
And so at that point, does thehost have a pre-interview, yes
or no?
If yes, send them theircalendar link for the
(10:25):
pre-interview to the guest sothe guest can schedule it right
there.
It'll mirror it in Podmatch andwe let hosts use their own
calendars.
We found that that just worksso much better.
Next is the release form yes orno?
If yes, they can sign therelease form right there inside
of Podmatch.
Next is schedule the interview.
If they already have the linkin there, they can just schedule
it from the link.
From there it automaticallygives.
So the whole thing can beautomated.
(10:47):
We have a few people very fewnow, thankfully that keep the
whole thing manual.
But the idea is you can gothrough each step without ever
having to leave the messagethread and it could just
automatically go through all ofit based off what hosts have I
don't do pre-interviews, somepeople do pre-interviews.
Some people have release forms,some don't and then you just
kind of follow the whole processAt the end, the release date
and the link for where it's liveor where it will be live, and
(11:09):
we're getting ready to add aspot for the guest to mention
where they shared the episode aswell.
So, again, everything is justkept in the same message thread.
It's all on like the right sideof the message thread, like we
call it, like the action panelthat shows everything that's
happened and exactly whereyou're at from a status
standpoint.
Sam Sethi (11:22):
Nice.
So what's next on the roadmapfor Podmatch?
I mean, where do you want totake it next?
Alex Sanfilippo (11:28):
Yeah.
So the big goal is to breakthat million dollars.
My goal is by the end of 2025and then in 2026, we'd like to
double that.
So once we kind of figured itout and the other thing that
we've been really working on weadded an embedded player into
the podcast profiles and we'reseeing that bring a lot of
traffic to podcast and so we'rereally doubling down on again
the SEO, the schema markup,getting it ranked on search
(11:49):
engines, and large languagemodels to help podcast listeners
find podcasts as well.
So I think the next thing Iwant to help with is that.
But we don't like to keep peopleon Podmatch.
If you're just a listener, theprofile doesn't make sense.
And that's kind of where wecome in, wanting to work with
true fans, like places wherepeople can actually go and
engage right, like we're nevergoing to be that.
We want to help with thatinitial introduction, and
there's so many places that Ifeel like they're great
(12:12):
listening experiences, but whenit comes to the introduction
it's a little bit more difficult.
We have so much informationthat the hosts have made
available that we can do that.
So what we're really focused onright now is helping podcasts
grow as well and get discovered.
I don't care to keep all thelistenership on Podmatch, but if
that's your initial way offinding it, I want to make sure
that you get to the next bestplace where it fits you
afterwards.
So we're kind of working on nowmatching podcasts and listeners
(12:34):
, like we're kind of done withdoing the host and the guest
type of thing.
Sam Sethi (12:38):
So do I get to rate the host after the show?
Does the host get to rate theguest?
I mean, it's sort of an Airbnbmoment you know where you've
left the place really tidy andyou get a good rating, or you've
left it trashed and you get abad rating.
Right, do I get to give thehost my little rating and vice
(13:01):
versa?
Alex Sanfilippo (13:02):
Yeah, thanks for mentioning that, sam.
Sometimes I forget our ownfeatures that we have.
But, yes, and, by the way,whether I'm a guest or host, I
always review the other party.
And yeah, we built a way rightinside of Podmatch.
You can see that on theprofiles and I guess that's
actually one of the benefits ofhaving the Media One Sheet that
you get as a podcast guest is itactually shows your reviews.
I don't know if there's manyplaces that show that yet.
There's a few of us that aredoing it now.
But, yes, at the way that Appleworks.
(13:35):
But we also say, hey, this isgreat for the host, just, if you
already left the review, justpaste it here as well.
So, yes, that's a big part ofit.
Is that social proof around it?
Sam Sethi (13:42):
Yeah, now a little bit about Alex.
Alex, how did you get intopodcasting?
I mean, how long have you beeninvolved in the industry?
Alex Sanfilippo (13:50):
So I started my first podcast in 2014.
And forgive me, everyone, if Iget the years wrong.
It gets a little blurry.
Sam, I don't know if you'veever encountered that COVID
screwed it all up for everybody.
Sam Sethi (14:00):
The lost years, the lost years, yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (14:03):
So yeah, 2014 was my first time starting a
podcast which I heard one justmaybe two years before that and
the first time I heard a podcastsaying I literally said out
loud because it was in a companyI worked at.
I walked into one of mydepartments and said you guys
aren't watching this, you'rejust listening to him.
Like that's so dumb.
And then I went back to my deskand I was like, well, I wonder
if there's anything good,because these guys convinced me.
(14:24):
I had an app for it on my phonealready.
I had an iPhone at that pointand, sure enough, there's that
little purple app and I was likeI don't know if there's
actually anything interesting onhere.
I fell in love with podcaststhe same day.
I said that this is so stupid.
That same day, I started mypodcast listenership journey.
Two years later, I got into itand it was really hobbyist.
Nothing great at first, but in2018, I got my real start.
I was going to do a show thatI'm like this is going to be a
(14:46):
good show and it did really well.
And I started speaking at theconferences and that ultimately
kind of led me to realizing likeI wanted to get out of the
aerospace industry, where I wasat 15 years in the aerospace
industry and I wanted to becomea full-time podcaster.
Like I knew that's what Iwanted to do, whether it was on
the industry side, whether itwas as a host or a combination,
which is what ended up being.
I just knew I wanted to, and soI have a background in aerospace
(15:08):
, but not in the fun stuff.
I wasn't an astronaut, wasn't askydiver, wasn't a fighter
pilot, just for everyone to know.
I worked at a company thatmanufactured parts that focus on
below the atmosphere and butwhen I left, I didn't start in
this position, but I left.
I was on the C-suite.
It was a publicly traded,multi-billion dollar company,
loved the job, just knew that itwas good.
But this podcasting thingseemed great, and so that's
ultimately what made me decideto kind of make that leap from
(15:31):
business administration andoperations to being a podcaster,
a creative, a creator.
Sam Sethi (15:36):
And in that time, I mean we've seen the industry
change quite dramatically in thelast few years.
You know, we've seen the riseof Spotify, the rise of YouTube,
dynamic ad insertions In myhumble opinion, I think, sites
like Patreon and paywall, siteslike Memberful now, and
subscription-based podcasting.
It seems to be where the moneyis.
(15:57):
What have you seen?
I mean, where do you think theindustry is heading?
Are we going to have to be theYouTube industry?
You know, video only, or isaudio strong enough as a
standalone requirement, withoutthe need for video?
Alex Sanfilippo (16:18):
I think that audio, I think it still stands
alone.
And to me, here's an example,even if I find a podcast through
YouTube and I'll just use asthe example.
The search engine on YouTube isvery, very good.
They also own a company calledGoogle that most people probably
familiar with as well, right?
So they've figured out thissearch thing, right, sam?
I mean, they kind of got itdown and I think that the
historically speaking at least,the player apps, which they are
starting to get better and I'mnoticing that they're improving
(16:38):
their search.
But sometimes I couldn't findwhat I was looking for and I'd
go to YouTube, I'd find it, butthen I'd immediately open up my
player app, which has the samecontent, basically right, maybe
slightly different in a formatperspective, and I'm going to
listen to it because I've foundI retain information so much
better when I don't have to justsit there.
I want to be on a walk, I wantto be cooking, cleaning, working
(16:59):
out, like I want to be doingsomething active.
And if I go back to mychildhood, sam, like I had some
learning disabilities as a kidand a doctor my mom was taking
me to finally just said you knowwhat?
Try letting him play with Legosand then read his lesson for
him and see if he can retain it.
And my retention went fromalmost nothing, when I was just
sitting in front of something,reading it myself, to something
(17:20):
in the high nineties.
And it's just because I'm thetype of person that I need to be
doing something while I'mlearning something else.
That obviously activates adifferent part of your brain, a
different part of your body, andso, for me, audio is always
going to be my first choice.
It's my go-to, and I don't thinkI'm alone with that, and I
think it's just an incrediblynon-intrusive way to consume
(17:41):
content.
Example if I'm going to watchsomething on YouTube, it is now
taking a lot of me Physically.
I have to be there, I have towatch it, I have to listen to it
.
When I'm listening to a podcast, I can do anything else I want.
It's not intruding too much inmy life and I'm still getting
the same good information.
For that alone, I think just usbeing busy people it's going to
continue to have its own space,and so, to me, the future of the
(18:01):
industry, though I do believethat it's about doubling down on
making good content, and Ithink, at the end of the day
because podcasting and YouTubeany form of creation online is
having such a low barrier toentry.
Anybody can do it, but itdoesn't mean that everybody
deserves to have people that arelistening.
Just because you can do, itdoesn't mean that you deserve
(18:23):
the audience.
Like you've got to actually dosomething really good, like what
you've done in podcasting, sam.
Like you have first off, youhave an incredible podcasting
voice.
Every time I listen I'm likedang, this guy's got it.
Sam Sethi (18:31):
You know, like that helps, that helps.
Alex Sanfilippo (18:34):
But you're extremely well-spoken and you
know the direction of all theconversations, all the any type
of content you seem to produce.
Sam, I'm not just blowing smoke,you do it really well and
that's why all of your projectsseem to do really well.
If you're out here not prepared, not trying, just kind of
recording, you'd be and youmight be like well, why is no
one listening?
Well, it might not be goodcontent.
Just because you can make itdoesn't mean it deserves an
(18:55):
audience, and so I think thatwe're going to find that even
independent creators, they haveto do a really good job.
And I'm not saying you have tospend tens of thousands of
dollars per episode, but it'sgotta be well thought out.
You should get a goodmicrophone, you should make sure
that you're showing up in areally quality way to respect
people's time that are justengaging with you, and
ultimately, I think that'swhat's going to cause people to
stand out.
What that looks like exactly, Idon't know.
(19:16):
I would push to some moreexperts in the space and even
you to tell me a little bit moreabout that, but my thought is
the content's going to have toget really good.
Sam Sethi (19:24):
I think you hit the nail on the head.
It's it's respecting people'stime, right?
If I'm going to ask you to giveme your time to listen to
something that I've produced,let me make sure it's good, let
me ensure it's, you know, in mycase, educational.
Let's say I'm not a comedian,so if it was comedic, then let
me make it, so it's funny.
Or if it's instructional, right, and so I think that's the
(19:44):
thing I always think.
And you know, the thing I hatewith most podcasts is that
beginning five minutes where thehosts are like you know, hey,
how did you get on last week?
What's your?
I hate that.
Get on with it.
I'm not here to live your life.
I'm here because of what you'vegot to talk about.
If you want to and James and Ido this if you want to have that
(20:05):
sort of and how was your weekand what have you been up to,
stick it right at the end,because if the person doesn't
want to listen, they're out,right, that's fine, and if they
still want to stick around,that's great.
But you were at PodcastMovement just now, so two very
quick questions here.
First of all, how was PodcastMovement for you?
How was it for you?
Alex Sanfilippo (20:24):
It was great.
I really enjoyed it.
I think that they was this 10years I don't know which one we
just celebrated.
It was something like that.
Sam Sethi (20:30):
I think so yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (20:31):
Yeah, they've just really got it down to a
science, like they know how tomake people feel welcome.
They know how to organize aroom really well, beautifully
done.
In my mind and for me, I go tojust meet the people that use
Podmatch, that are communitymembers.
I don't go with like any realagenda.
I show up to speak as well,like I want to show up and add
value, and then I would justwant to hang out and they made
such a great environment wherethat was just I mean, welcome is
(20:53):
an understatement Like it wasjust set up to thrive around
community, and so for me, thiswas the best one I've been to.
Sam Sethi (20:58):
Good, I've heard some really good positive feedback
from many people, so I'm havingFOMO for missing it this year,
but anyway, Sorry, sam.
Alex Sanfilippo (21:06):
I mean it was terrible.
It was awful you didn't miss athing.
Sam Sethi (21:08):
That's what I was trying to say that's what I want
to hear.
That's what I want to hear Now.
One of the people you met upwith was Jordan Blair from
Buzzsprout, sponsor of PuzzleNews Weekly Review.
You talked to Jordan about sometips for independent podcast
creators.
What were they?
They were great when I heardthem.
Alex Sanfilippo (21:27):
Yeah, thank you .
The big thing I wanted tohighlight with her audience
specifically, just because Iknow how Buzzsprout,
specifically, is a verycommunity-driven business,
similar to how we do things atPodmatch.
That's really important to usand I always find that stuff
bleeds into your membership, thepeople that are in your
community, and so for me, Ireally wanted to drive a point
home.
When I talked and this is mymain point it was about talking
(21:48):
to your listeners and formingcommunity among them and around
them, and I think that that'skind of one of the next things
in podcasting.
And, sam, I feel like I'mpreaching the choir a little bit
, like you've been ahead of thecurve on this for a long time,
seeing that that's going to bethe future of what we're doing
(22:11):
and the rest of us are just kindof like huh, maybe right, but
more and more, even at thatevent, people wanted to be there
to hang out with people, andthat just reinforced the point,
and I'll just share this here.
Talking to your listeners, Ithink, is so important, and the
question I always get aroundthis is well, how, where are
they engaging with you?
Listen, if you've got somethinglike true fans, that's going to
help you get there immediately.
Great, if you don't yet, maybesign up for it.
But beyond that, are theyengaging with you on any social
platform?
Do you see them messaging you?
Are they liking everything?
Are they commenting?
(22:31):
Have they emailed in Any waythat you find somebody that
you're like?
I think they're listening to myshow.
Reach out to them, ask them forfive minutes on a video
conference call just to get toknow them.
Now it might sound scary, butthe reality is this person likes
you.
If they've listened to yourpodcast, they've determined that
they probably like you andthey'd love the opportunity to
probably make them a fan of yourpodcast If you can give them
that time.
And when you get on a call,because I think that's so
(22:53):
important.
There's four questions.
I always tell people hey, youshould ask this as a podcast
host to your listeners.
I encourage you're hearing this.
Write these things down, causeI think they're really valuable.
Number one just assume theyfound it through Apple, spotify,
youtube, right, but the realityis what?
(23:14):
If Sam mentioned your podcaston an episode and all of your
listeners are coming from that,then I'll tell you what your
best next course of action is totalk to Sam and be like hey,
sam, what else can we do?
Clearly, the people that likeyou, also like me, like there's
got to be something here.
Right, correct, you want tofind that stuff out.
I think that's just to me thatis absolutely key.
The second thing is to ask themwhat they like about your show.
When I asked this question,there was something I was doing
30% of the time in my episodesonly 30% of the time and every
(23:38):
person I talked to said thatthat was their favorite segment,
that favorite thing.
I would do, so you want to askyou.
Sam Sethi (23:43):
Sorry to cut across you, but you gave this wonderful
story about your mom, so themom test.
Go on, tell me what the momtest is yes.
Alex Sanfilippo (23:51):
So the mom test here, like the reason that I'm
asking these questions in thisway, and actually to quickly
give you the third question, iswhat?
The question is kind of what doyou not like about the show?
But you can't ask it that way.
So again, that mom test.
Sam, I'm glad you mentionedthis.
Here's the example.
If I went to my mom right now,who happened to be in my house
just an hour ago, she wasdriving through town.
She stopped to say hi.
If I told my mom mom, I'mquitting podcasting, I'm
(24:12):
shutting down pod match, becauseI got an idea I'm going to
create an umbrella that doesn'tblock out the sun and doesn't
block out the rain.
What do you think?
My mom would literally say Alex, honey, you are amazing, you're
going to do so.
Good, this is, this is the bestchoice you've ever made.
That's what my mom would say.
Now, if my mom walked in anhour ago, I said hey, mom, what
would you think of somebody whowants to create an umbrella that
(24:33):
doesn't block out the sun orthe rain?
Do you think that's a good idea?
She would literally say that isthe dumbest thing I've ever
heard in my life.
I asked her the exact samequestion, I just positioned it
differently.
When you're talking to yourlisteners little bit intimidated
even being on a call with you,because they're like, oh, I've
only listened to this person andif you ask them, hey, what do
you like about the show, whatcan we do better?
They're going to break yourheart and probably not be honest
(24:55):
.
You need to pull yourself outof the equation.
So the best way to ask thequestion what can we do better?
Is, hey, how do you think wecan improve the show together
for future listeners?
How do you think we can improvethe show together for future
listeners?
Asking that allows them to breakyour heart without breaking
your heart, and chances are theymight be like what they did to
me.
They said, alex, your episodesare too long, you need to
shorten it up, and I was like,okay, there's something there.
(25:17):
It hurt a little bit.
I changed that and mylistenership started increasing
even more when I did that.
No-transcript what youunderstand based off the podcast
content they've heard from you,and I think that it can be
(25:39):
incredibly insightful.
Learning that can teach youwhat your next product is.
It can teach you how you canserve them on a higher level,
can teach you what your nextepisode should be about.
I think that talking to yourlisteners, building that form of
community around them, giving aplace to meet each other even
afterwards, can go a really,really long way for us as
podcasters, especially theindependent level.
Sam Sethi (25:57):
Yeah, I've got a WhatsApp group where I invite
super fans to that channel and Igive them early access to what
we're doing on TrueFans and sothey get all of the information.
They see it before anyone else.
I even ask them about pricing.
I ask them about you know thisis a feature we're launching.
What do you think Can you testit for me before anyone else?
(26:19):
And that group is so importantto me because they give me that
feedback.
Now, you know, we've all heardthe.
You know the old adjectiveHenry Ford asked what would you
want?
Faster?
All heard the.
You know the old adage of henryford asked what would you want
faster?
Horses would be the answer.
Right, not a new car.
But I actually think the peoplethat you identify important as
well, because they are the heavyusers, they are the bleeding
(26:43):
edge users and they're the onesthat are going to tell you, you
know, as creators, what theywant to go forward with.
So, fully agree, finding yoursuper fans, whatever you want to
call them, and creatingwhatever platform you want.
You know it could be threads,it could be blue sky, it could
be whatsapp, it doesn't have to.
You know, be that, but I dobelieve you're right.
Alex Sanfilippo (27:02):
Finding that community is critical now I
think it's really nice that youuse WhatsApp, because so many of
us, as we're creatives, we'recreators, we assume we need to
reinvent the wheel you justmentioned.
Use WhatsApp.
I'm sure it doesn't cost youanything or much.
I don't know how big your groupis, but the reality is people
can download that.
You're like okay, I built anapp for us to communicate and we
don't need to reinvent thewheel.
Keep it really simple.
(27:23):
And the other thing, sam, Idon't mean to just repeat what
you said, but it's very, veryimportant that we have our own
discernment as hosts.
An example when you startedworking on True Fans, people
never asked you for that.
What they asked you was can youtalk to someone at Apple so
they can make it more communitydriven?
Can you kind of do somepodcasting 2.0 stuff, like
that's what they were probablyasking you and you're like no
(27:44):
like, can you become a bookingagent and connect us manually?
No, they were describingPodmatch.
That takes wisdom, that takesdiscernment and us as
individuals, creatives.
We need to step back and say Idon't need to reinvent this, but
this is a gap.
This is something I need tocreate because I think it will
serve my community well.
Make sure you're working on theright thing.
Again, that takes some wisdomand discernment.
We don't have time to talkabout that.
Sam Sethi (28:06):
No, but we do have time to ask you if I wanted to
sign up for Podmatch.
Alex Sanfilippo (28:12):
Where would I go?
Podmatchcom has everything thatyou'll need and I do always
tell people to start atpodmatchcom slash free.
Whether you're a podcast guesthost or aspiring guest or host
or even an agency, there'ssomething there for you.
It's just nine quick ideas.
I don't ask for your emailaddress or anything like that.
There's just some things Ithink can help podcasters out.
So, again, to sign up ispodmatchcom, but if you start at
podmatchcom slash free, take alook at those nine ideas.
It's just kind of some of thethings that have really stood
(28:33):
out to me over the years.
But, sam, you're amazing, thankyou for doing what you do and
truly honored to be here today.
This was absolutely a
Hello and welcome to a very exciting interview.
He is well-known within thepodcast industry.
His name is Alex Sanfilippo,but he's also the founder and
the CEO of Podmatch.
Alex hello, how are you?
Alex Sanfilippo (00:14):
Sam, thank you so much for having me and I'm
doing really well, Excited to behere with you today.
Sam Sethi (00:17):
Yeah, we met a few years back at one of the podcast
movements and you've beenrocking it out ever since.
So look, let's start off with.
What is Podmatch?
Alex Sanfilippo (00:28):
Yeah, so Podmatch is a software we
created just out of a need wesaw in the industry, which is
basically a way to connectpodcast guests and hosts for
interviews, and I know that welive in a world where there's
plenty of people wanting to be aguest and hosts have a lot of
options.
Right, the idea is connectingthe right podcast guest and the
right podcast host togetherfaster, while handling a lot of
the administrative functionsautomatically throughout it,
(00:49):
because there's just a lot ofthings we do every single time.
So the whole idea wasconnecting the right people
faster and basically, for anyonewho's not heard of it, kind of
the easiest way to describe isit works kind of like a dating
app, but instead of connectingfor dates, it connects for
podcast interviews.
Granted, sam, I have beenmarried too long to be ever on a
dating app, but I'm told thatthey work very similar.
Sam Sethi (01:05):
Just in case the wife hears this interview.
Alex Sanfilippo (01:07):
Right Good answer.
Sam Sethi (01:08):
Thank you, yes, I don't know what you mean by
swipe, right, honey?
I haven't a clue what thatmeans.
Alex Sanfilippo (01:15):
You know I got to share a real funny story, Sam
.
I'll make it brief, but when wefirst launched Podmatch is when
some of the generative AI stufffirst started coming out.
It was early 2020.
And a lot of the banks were thefirst ones to use this.
When it came to the descriptionof your subscription that you
had, so Podmatch was gettingclassified actually as a dating
app, and so it regularly showedup as matchcom or something
(01:37):
another one that I'm notfamiliar with.
It was similar to that and wehad people emailing us saying,
hey, can you please tell my wifethat I do not have a
subscription to a dating app,because she saw it on the credit
card and that's your fault.
And we're like, oh no, it was amess to organize.
That was probably our first bigproblem we had, but the banks
were automatically categorizingit and it's funny that they made
that decision.
So anyway, I have.
Sam Sethi (01:56):
I have the same problem.
So through fans, my own app,most people go.
Is that only fans?
Yes, a lot of people ask methat as well.
So, yes, mismatching, as theysay.
Now talking of matching people,though.
So PodMatch, how does it work?
Do I rock up, I register myselfand then other people say, yes,
I'd like to interview you, orhow do I, as a creator, find
(02:18):
people?
So tell me how the wholeprocess works.
Alex Sanfilippo (02:21):
Yeah, sure, we have two models.
We have the individual side andwe have the agency model as
well.
I'll skip the agency modeltoday, but basically I will just
briefly mention if you're abooking agent, whether you're
booking people on podcast orbooking guests on podcast.
Either way, we have an agencymodel.
That's good for people.
But the individual side isreally the core of what we do.
And, yes, if you're a host, youwould just go to the website and
you'd start the sign up processand it'll walk you through all
(02:42):
the different things that weneed basically for our system
the algorithm, the AI to doreally good matching and same on
the guest side, if someone'slike, well, maybe I have a
podcast but I also want to be aguest.
Same thing, and you can haveone login with both those sides
of the account.
But the whole thing is rightwhen you go to the website, we
want to be very intuitiveautomatically start and you can
(03:03):
message in the platform, you canschedule in the platform.
You never have to exchange anemail if you don't want to, and
that's kind of the beauty ofstreamlining and automating the
process for both sides of themicrophone.
But, right, when you'refinished, you end up with a very
beautiful one sheet, whetherthat's for you as an individual,
as a podcast guest, or as apodcast host or as both, but
regardless, you've got thesebeautiful high ranking on search
engines and on AIs now profilethat you can use as a media one
(03:25):
sheet for your show or for youas an individual, and that's one
of the things that we don'treally talk about as a benefit
on Podmatch, but the reality isthat's been good for a lot of
people because once again,questions.
It would usually come in likehey Alex, I need pictures of you
for this interview Great, myPodmatch profile has, where you
can literally download approvedpictures.
Oh, you want my bio?
Great, it's on my profile.
You want questions?
I'm ready to be asked.
It's there.
And same on the flip side formy show.
(03:46):
You want to understand theaudience, the flow, who I'm
looking for.
It's all listed in that oneplace and that's all mentioned
and asked during the signupprocess of a pod match.
Sam Sethi (03:55):
Okay, and does this give me good SEO as well?
Can I use my profile forsomething that people can find
me on outside of Podmatch with alink back to the profile?
Alex Sanfilippo (04:09):
Yes, absolutely , and every profile doubles as
an affiliate link.
So somebody goes to yourprofile and they see the public
version of it.
It shows a little bit lessdetail than the internal version
.
So if you're signed up forPodmatch but it does prompt
people, hey, if you want tointerview this guest or if you
want to be a guest on thispodcast, click here to sign up
and then it'll automaticallywork as that person's affiliate
link.
But from an SEO perspective, weworked with a couple different
experts on this and I didn'teven know what schema markup is
and I know this is an SEOpodcast and, sam, I know you
(04:31):
know that world well but thatwas apparently a thing that we
were overlooking.
We're like, hey, if you wantthis to rank higher in search
engines, you want the largelanguage model AIs to be able to
figure out who somebody isbased off a Podmatch profile.
You've got to work on thisstuff.
So we have put a lot of timeand energy into it.
We still are to help that, helpsomebody rank higher, and the
idea is it will just increasetheir authority as an individual
(04:52):
and we can kind of see like thefuture of search is going
toward the individual'scredibility, and so we wanted to
be able to help that.
We had somebody recently leavePodmatch, which is always
upsetting to me, but they saidhey, what did you all do to me?
I'm like what do you mean?
They're like my websitevisitors went down.
My podcast listenership wentdown.
Like, did you do that to mebecause I left Podmatch?
I'm like no, that's just abyproduct of no longer having a
high ranking profile on thosetwo places.
(05:14):
It was probably your bestranking profile on the internet
and that was something we reallywanted to do just as a bonus
for everybody.
So to me, it's really important.
Sam Sethi (05:22):
So is this aimed at independent podcast creators or
is this aimed at the bigpodcasters?
Who's the target audience?
Alex Sanfilippo (05:31):
Thank you for asking that, sam.
I don't know if anyone's everasked me that, but it's the
independent creator.
Me personally, I'm anindependent creator myself.
I have my own show and I justlove being an individual creator
and I believe in the power thathas in the world.
Like together, right?
Sure, there's one show thatmight be bigger than all of ours
combined almost right.
But the reality is I reallylove the heart behind what an
(05:52):
individual does and how itserves people.
So we're always gonna be allfor the individual, the small,
independent podcaster.
And when I go to conferences Idon't try to meet the keynotes
of the big names, not that tomeet the keynote to the big
names, not to have anythingagainst them.
Of course they're great,everyone wants to meet them,
everyone wants to sign theirshow right For me, I want to
meet the new person 10, 20episodes in that has a real
passion, a real purpose for it,and that's who I know that I can
serve really well and that'swhat gets me up in the morning
(06:15):
and gets me really excited to bein this space.
Sam Sethi (06:17):
So, with Podmatch, is there a payment requirement
from the guest or the host interms of because one of the
things that I've been approachednumerous times oh, we can get
you on a show, but it'll costyou so much money, right?
And I'm like, nah, I'm okay,I'll just bring them.
If I really want to be on thatshow, I'll connect with them,
and if I have value, as in whatI've got to say, they'll have me
(06:41):
as a guest, and if I haven'tgot value, then I'm not paying
for it, right?
So where's the money flow inthis?
Alex Sanfilippo (06:47):
Yeah, we do things very I don't know.
I don't want to call it likeanti.
Well, you know, it's just it'snot common, it's not
conventional wisdom when itcomes to software, and I've been
told we don't do it right bymany people.
So I know that if you out, butwe actually have no free tier,
we have no trial, it's you payand then you can start, and
(07:08):
we've done that since thebeginning, just not since the
beginning, actually.
We did that maybe a year in,and the weird thing is when I
did that, our amount of signupsorganically quadrupled overnight
.
And still this day we grow,mostly organically, and it just
basically kind of weeds outpeople that maybe aren't serious
, aren't ready yet, but thepricing can always change, but I
don't foresee that everhappening, on the host side at
the very least.
So on the host side, it's $6 amonth to be a host on Podmatch.
(07:31):
That's unlimited matches, asmany or as few as you want.
So we have some people that dodaily podcasts, we have some
people that do a monthly episode, and so it's as much or as
little as you want.
But the one thing that we addedis we call it our pod value
initiative.
So if you're a podcast host onthe platform through a pod value
initiative which you'reautomatically enrolled into.
We actually pay podcast hostswho use the platform and it's
not a whole lot, but the goal isto help them offset their
(07:53):
production cost.
We charge $6 a month for law ofbuy-in.
I did some personal trainingmany years ago, sam, and I've
learned that all of my worstclients were the ones I gave a
deal to or the ones I trainedfor free.
They never took it seriously.
They never really were willingto invest in themselves because
I told them you don't need to be, just come and I'll help you
however I can.
And so when it came topodcasting, we realized the same
thing.
We charge $6 a month not tomake $6 a month off of you.
(08:16):
We give it back to you, plus alot more.
I just need to know that you'reserious.
If you can't pull up yourwallet, I can't pull mine out
for you.
And so our goal is to break amillion dollars back in the
hands of podcasters, and at timeof recording, we're just over
$900,000 we've given back and soreally excited about that.
Like that's been a goal fromday one and it's just our way of
helping them offset theproduction costs, because
there's money involved inpodcasting.
(08:38):
Now, on the guest side, alicia,my wife she's the one who knows
the numbers really well, so,forgive me, I don't actually
know how much it costs, butwe've done our best to keep it
very affordable as well.
That way we can have peoplethat have real stories,
independent people.
We don't want it to.
We don't want to remove peoplefrom the platform or keep them
from getting on if they can'tafford it.
So we kept it a price pointthat's affordable to make sure
that people would be able tojoin and again share
(08:59):
authentically that independentcreator, that person who maybe
has a newer business or justdoesn't have a lot financially,
but they have a really goodstory.
So we've done our best to keepthe whole thing affordable and
that's going to be our long-termgoal.
We don't have this futurepricing structure that's going
to increase it over time.
We want to make sure that it'sgood for everybody.
We want to be people that arereally serious.
Sam Sethi (09:17):
Okay, so describe a little bit more to me.
So I'm a guest, I've registered, I've put Is this like Calendly
?
Get a request for time?
Are you integrated with thingslike Riverside or Descript?
How much of the workflow is anintegrated process and how much
(09:39):
do I have to do individuallywith the tools that I probably
use today?
Alex Sanfilippo (09:43):
Yeah well, sammy, you might know this, but
a lot of podcast hosts, theylike to keep a lot of it manual.
But we found that on PodMatchwe've been doing a good job with
the training side of things.
To explain that like you don'thave to.
So if you want to automate allof it, the way it works is
whoever receives the initialmessage has the right of first
acceptance or refusal.
So, like again, if a host reachout to a guest, the guest says
(10:05):
match or pass.
They get to read the message.
You can have some conversation.
But let's just assume that theguest is like you know what this
seems like a fit.
I'll hit match.
The next thing happens youautomatically get brought into
the host workflow, which isalways how it works.
Right.
The host is the platform.
You and I fully believe that,like that's, that's the
foundation of it.
And so at that point, does thehost have a pre-interview, yes
or no?
If yes, send them theircalendar link for the
(10:25):
pre-interview to the guest sothe guest can schedule it right
there.
It'll mirror it in Podmatch andwe let hosts use their own
calendars.
We found that that just worksso much better.
Next is the release form yes orno?
If yes, they can sign therelease form right there inside
of Podmatch.
Next is schedule the interview.
If they already have the linkin there, they can just schedule
it from the link.
From there it automaticallygives.
So the whole thing can beautomated.
(10:47):
We have a few people very fewnow, thankfully that keep the
whole thing manual.
But the idea is you can gothrough each step without ever
having to leave the messagethread and it could just
automatically go through all ofit based off what hosts have I
don't do pre-interviews, somepeople do pre-interviews.
Some people have release forms,some don't and then you just
kind of follow the whole processAt the end, the release date
and the link for where it's liveor where it will be live, and
(11:09):
we're getting ready to add aspot for the guest to mention
where they shared the episode aswell.
So, again, everything is justkept in the same message thread.
It's all on like the right sideof the message thread, like we
call it, like the action panelthat shows everything that's
happened and exactly whereyou're at from a status
standpoint.
Sam Sethi (11:22):
Nice.
So what's next on the roadmapfor Podmatch?
I mean, where do you want totake it next?
Alex Sanfilippo (11:28):
Yeah.
So the big goal is to breakthat million dollars.
My goal is by the end of 2025and then in 2026, we'd like to
double that.
So once we kind of figured itout and the other thing that
we've been really working on weadded an embedded player into
the podcast profiles and we'reseeing that bring a lot of
traffic to podcast and so we'rereally doubling down on again
the SEO, the schema markup,getting it ranked on search
(11:49):
engines, and large languagemodels to help podcast listeners
find podcasts as well.
So I think the next thing Iwant to help with is that.
But we don't like to keep peopleon Podmatch.
If you're just a listener, theprofile doesn't make sense.
And that's kind of where wecome in, wanting to work with
true fans, like places wherepeople can actually go and
engage right, like we're nevergoing to be that.
We want to help with thatinitial introduction, and
there's so many places that Ifeel like they're great
(12:12):
listening experiences, but whenit comes to the introduction
it's a little bit more difficult.
We have so much informationthat the hosts have made
available that we can do that.
So what we're really focused onright now is helping podcasts
grow as well and get discovered.
I don't care to keep all thelistenership on Podmatch, but if
that's your initial way offinding it, I want to make sure
that you get to the next bestplace where it fits you
afterwards.
So we're kind of working on nowmatching podcasts and listeners
(12:34):
, like we're kind of done withdoing the host and the guest
type of thing.
Sam Sethi (12:38):
So do I get to rate the host after the show?
Does the host get to rate theguest?
I mean, it's sort of an Airbnbmoment you know where you've
left the place really tidy andyou get a good rating, or you've
left it trashed and you get abad rating.
Right, do I get to give thehost my little rating and vice
(13:01):
versa?
Alex Sanfilippo (13:02):
Yeah, thanks for mentioning that, sam.
Sometimes I forget our ownfeatures that we have.
But, yes, and, by the way,whether I'm a guest or host, I
always review the other party.
And yeah, we built a way rightinside of Podmatch.
You can see that on theprofiles and I guess that's
actually one of the benefits ofhaving the Media One Sheet that
you get as a podcast guest is itactually shows your reviews.
I don't know if there's manyplaces that show that yet.
There's a few of us that aredoing it now.
But, yes, at the way that Appleworks.
(13:35):
But we also say, hey, this isgreat for the host, just, if you
already left the review, justpaste it here as well.
So, yes, that's a big part ofit.
Is that social proof around it?
Sam Sethi (13:42):
Yeah, now a little bit about Alex.
Alex, how did you get intopodcasting?
I mean, how long have you beeninvolved in the industry?
Alex Sanfilippo (13:50):
So I started my first podcast in 2014.
And forgive me, everyone, if Iget the years wrong.
It gets a little blurry.
Sam, I don't know if you'veever encountered that COVID
screwed it all up for everybody.
Sam Sethi (14:00):
The lost years, the lost years, yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (14:03):
So yeah, 2014 was my first time starting a
podcast which I heard one justmaybe two years before that and
the first time I heard a podcastsaying I literally said out
loud because it was in a companyI worked at.
I walked into one of mydepartments and said you guys
aren't watching this, you'rejust listening to him.
Like that's so dumb.
And then I went back to my deskand I was like, well, I wonder
if there's anything good,because these guys convinced me.
(14:24):
I had an app for it on my phonealready.
I had an iPhone at that pointand, sure enough, there's that
little purple app and I was likeI don't know if there's
actually anything interesting onhere.
I fell in love with podcaststhe same day.
I said that this is so stupid.
That same day, I started mypodcast listenership journey.
Two years later, I got into itand it was really hobbyist.
Nothing great at first, but in2018, I got my real start.
I was going to do a show thatI'm like this is going to be a
(14:46):
good show and it did really well.
And I started speaking at theconferences and that ultimately
kind of led me to realizing likeI wanted to get out of the
aerospace industry, where I wasat 15 years in the aerospace
industry and I wanted to becomea full-time podcaster.
Like I knew that's what Iwanted to do, whether it was on
the industry side, whether itwas as a host or a combination,
which is what ended up being.
I just knew I wanted to, and soI have a background in aerospace
(15:08):
, but not in the fun stuff.
I wasn't an astronaut, wasn't askydiver, wasn't a fighter
pilot, just for everyone to know.
I worked at a company thatmanufactured parts that focus on
below the atmosphere and butwhen I left, I didn't start in
this position, but I left.
I was on the C-suite.
It was a publicly traded,multi-billion dollar company,
loved the job, just knew that itwas good.
But this podcasting thingseemed great, and so that's
ultimately what made me decideto kind of make that leap from
(15:31):
business administration andoperations to being a podcaster,
a creative, a creator.
Sam Sethi (15:36):
And in that time, I mean we've seen the industry
change quite dramatically in thelast few years.
You know, we've seen the riseof Spotify, the rise of YouTube,
dynamic ad insertions In myhumble opinion, I think, sites
like Patreon and paywall, siteslike Memberful now, and
subscription-based podcasting.
It seems to be where the moneyis.
(15:57):
What have you seen?
I mean, where do you think theindustry is heading?
Are we going to have to be theYouTube industry?
You know, video only, or isaudio strong enough as a
standalone requirement, withoutthe need for video?
Alex Sanfilippo (16:18):
I think that audio, I think it still stands
alone.
And to me, here's an example,even if I find a podcast through
YouTube and I'll just use asthe example.
The search engine on YouTube isvery, very good.
They also own a company calledGoogle that most people probably
familiar with as well, right?
So they've figured out thissearch thing, right, sam?
I mean, they kind of got itdown and I think that the
historically speaking at least,the player apps, which they are
starting to get better and I'mnoticing that they're improving
(16:38):
their search.
But sometimes I couldn't findwhat I was looking for and I'd
go to YouTube, I'd find it, butthen I'd immediately open up my
player app, which has the samecontent, basically right, maybe
slightly different in a formatperspective, and I'm going to
listen to it because I've foundI retain information so much
better when I don't have to justsit there.
I want to be on a walk, I wantto be cooking, cleaning, working
(16:59):
out, like I want to be doingsomething active.
And if I go back to mychildhood, sam, like I had some
learning disabilities as a kidand a doctor my mom was taking
me to finally just said you knowwhat?
Try letting him play with Legosand then read his lesson for
him and see if he can retain it.
And my retention went fromalmost nothing, when I was just
sitting in front of something,reading it myself, to something
(17:20):
in the high nineties.
And it's just because I'm thetype of person that I need to be
doing something while I'mlearning something else.
That obviously activates adifferent part of your brain, a
different part of your body, andso, for me, audio is always
going to be my first choice.
It's my go-to, and I don't thinkI'm alone with that, and I
think it's just an incrediblynon-intrusive way to consume
(17:41):
content.
Example if I'm going to watchsomething on YouTube, it is now
taking a lot of me Physically.
I have to be there, I have towatch it, I have to listen to it
.
When I'm listening to a podcast, I can do anything else I want.
It's not intruding too much inmy life and I'm still getting
the same good information.
For that alone, I think just usbeing busy people it's going to
continue to have its own space,and so, to me, the future of the
(18:01):
industry, though I do believethat it's about doubling down on
making good content, and Ithink, at the end of the day
because podcasting and YouTubeany form of creation online is
having such a low barrier toentry.
Anybody can do it, but itdoesn't mean that everybody
deserves to have people that arelistening.
Just because you can do, itdoesn't mean that you deserve
(18:23):
the audience.
Like you've got to actually dosomething really good, like what
you've done in podcasting, sam.
Like you have first off, youhave an incredible podcasting
voice.
Every time I listen I'm likedang, this guy's got it.
Sam Sethi (18:31):
You know, like that helps, that helps.
Alex Sanfilippo (18:34):
But you're extremely well-spoken and you
know the direction of all theconversations, all the any type
of content you seem to produce.
Sam, I'm not just blowing smoke,you do it really well and
that's why all of your projectsseem to do really well.
If you're out here not prepared, not trying, just kind of
recording, you'd be and youmight be like well, why is no
one listening?
Well, it might not be goodcontent.
Just because you can make itdoesn't mean it deserves an
(18:55):
audience, and so I think thatwe're going to find that even
independent creators, they haveto do a really good job.
And I'm not saying you have tospend tens of thousands of
dollars per episode, but it'sgotta be well thought out.
You should get a goodmicrophone, you should make sure
that you're showing up in areally quality way to respect
people's time that are justengaging with you, and
ultimately, I think that'swhat's going to cause people to
stand out.
What that looks like exactly, Idon't know.
(19:16):
I would push to some moreexperts in the space and even
you to tell me a little bit moreabout that, but my thought is
the content's going to have toget really good.
Sam Sethi (19:24):
I think you hit the nail on the head.
It's it's respecting people'stime, right?
If I'm going to ask you to giveme your time to listen to
something that I've produced,let me make sure it's good, let
me ensure it's, you know, in mycase, educational.
Let's say I'm not a comedian,so if it was comedic, then let
me make it, so it's funny.
Or if it's instructional, right, and so I think that's the
(19:44):
thing I always think.
And you know, the thing I hatewith most podcasts is that
beginning five minutes where thehosts are like you know, hey,
how did you get on last week?
What's your?
I hate that.
Get on with it.
I'm not here to live your life.
I'm here because of what you'vegot to talk about.
If you want to and James and Ido this if you want to have that
(20:05):
sort of and how was your weekand what have you been up to,
stick it right at the end,because if the person doesn't
want to listen, they're out,right, that's fine, and if they
still want to stick around,that's great.
But you were at PodcastMovement just now, so two very
quick questions here.
First of all, how was PodcastMovement for you?
How was it for you?
Alex Sanfilippo (20:24):
It was great.
I really enjoyed it.
I think that they was this 10years I don't know which one we
just celebrated.
It was something like that.
Sam Sethi (20:30):
I think so yeah.
Alex Sanfilippo (20:31):
Yeah, they've just really got it down to a
science, like they know how tomake people feel welcome.
They know how to organize aroom really well, beautifully
done.
In my mind and for me, I go tojust meet the people that use
Podmatch, that are communitymembers.
I don't go with like any realagenda.
I show up to speak as well,like I want to show up and add
value, and then I would justwant to hang out and they made
such a great environment wherethat was just I mean, welcome is
(20:53):
an understatement Like it wasjust set up to thrive around
community, and so for me, thiswas the best one I've been to.
Sam Sethi (20:58):
Good, I've heard some really good positive feedback
from many people, so I'm havingFOMO for missing it this year,
but anyway, Sorry, sam.
Alex Sanfilippo (21:06):
I mean it was terrible.
It was awful you didn't miss athing.
Sam Sethi (21:08):
That's what I was trying to say that's what I want
to hear.
That's what I want to hear Now.
One of the people you met upwith was Jordan Blair from
Buzzsprout, sponsor of PuzzleNews Weekly Review.
You talked to Jordan about sometips for independent podcast
creators.
What were they?
They were great when I heardthem.
Alex Sanfilippo (21:27):
Yeah, thank you .
The big thing I wanted tohighlight with her audience
specifically, just because Iknow how Buzzsprout,
specifically, is a verycommunity-driven business,
similar to how we do things atPodmatch.
That's really important to usand I always find that stuff
bleeds into your membership, thepeople that are in your
community, and so for me, Ireally wanted to drive a point
home.
When I talked and this is mymain point it was about talking
(21:48):
to your listeners and formingcommunity among them and around
them, and I think that that'skind of one of the next things
in podcasting.
And, sam, I feel like I'mpreaching the choir a little bit
, like you've been ahead of thecurve on this for a long time,
seeing that that's going to bethe future of what we're doing
(22:11):
and the rest of us are just kindof like huh, maybe right, but
more and more, even at thatevent, people wanted to be there
to hang out with people, andthat just reinforced the point,
and I'll just share this here.
Talking to your listeners, Ithink, is so important, and the
question I always get aroundthis is well, how, where are
they engaging with you?
Listen, if you've got somethinglike true fans, that's going to
help you get there immediately.
Great, if you don't yet, maybesign up for it.
But beyond that, are theyengaging with you on any social
platform?
Do you see them messaging you?
Are they liking everything?
Are they commenting?
(22:31):
Have they emailed in Any waythat you find somebody that
you're like?
I think they're listening to myshow.
Reach out to them, ask them forfive minutes on a video
conference call just to get toknow them.
Now it might sound scary, butthe reality is this person likes
you.
If they've listened to yourpodcast, they've determined that
they probably like you andthey'd love the opportunity to
probably make them a fan of yourpodcast If you can give them
that time.
And when you get on a call,because I think that's so
(22:53):
important.
There's four questions.
I always tell people hey, youshould ask this as a podcast
host to your listeners.
I encourage you're hearing this.
Write these things down, causeI think they're really valuable.
Number one just assume theyfound it through Apple, spotify,
youtube, right, but the realityis what?
(23:14):
If Sam mentioned your podcaston an episode and all of your
listeners are coming from that,then I'll tell you what your
best next course of action is totalk to Sam and be like hey,
sam, what else can we do?
Clearly, the people that likeyou, also like me, like there's
got to be something here.
Right, correct, you want tofind that stuff out.
I think that's just to me thatis absolutely key.
The second thing is to ask themwhat they like about your show.
When I asked this question,there was something I was doing
30% of the time in my episodesonly 30% of the time and every
(23:38):
person I talked to said thatthat was their favorite segment,
that favorite thing.
I would do, so you want to askyou.
Sam Sethi (23:43):
Sorry to cut across you, but you gave this wonderful
story about your mom, so themom test.
Go on, tell me what the momtest is yes.
Alex Sanfilippo (23:51):
So the mom test here, like the reason that I'm
asking these questions in thisway, and actually to quickly
give you the third question, iswhat?
The question is kind of what doyou not like about the show?
But you can't ask it that way.
So again, that mom test.
Sam, I'm glad you mentionedthis.
Here's the example.
If I went to my mom right now,who happened to be in my house
just an hour ago, she wasdriving through town.
She stopped to say hi.
If I told my mom mom, I'mquitting podcasting, I'm
(24:12):
shutting down pod match, becauseI got an idea I'm going to
create an umbrella that doesn'tblock out the sun and doesn't
block out the rain.
What do you think?
My mom would literally say Alex, honey, you are amazing, you're
going to do so.
Good, this is, this is the bestchoice you've ever made.
That's what my mom would say.
Now, if my mom walked in anhour ago, I said hey, mom, what
would you think of somebody whowants to create an umbrella that
(24:33):
doesn't block out the sun orthe rain?
Do you think that's a good idea?
She would literally say that isthe dumbest thing I've ever
heard in my life.
I asked her the exact samequestion, I just positioned it
differently.
When you're talking to yourlisteners little bit intimidated
even being on a call with you,because they're like, oh, I've
only listened to this person andif you ask them, hey, what do
you like about the show, whatcan we do better?
They're going to break yourheart and probably not be honest
(24:55):
.
You need to pull yourself outof the equation.
So the best way to ask thequestion what can we do better?
Is, hey, how do you think wecan improve the show together
for future listeners?
How do you think we can improvethe show together for future
listeners?
Asking that allows them to breakyour heart without breaking
your heart, and chances are theymight be like what they did to
me.
They said, alex, your episodesare too long, you need to
shorten it up, and I was like,okay, there's something there.
(25:17):
It hurt a little bit.
I changed that and mylistenership started increasing
even more when I did that.
No-transcript what youunderstand based off the podcast
content they've heard from you,and I think that it can be
(25:39):
incredibly insightful.
Learning that can teach youwhat your next product is.
It can teach you how you canserve them on a higher level,
can teach you what your nextepisode should be about.
I think that talking to yourlisteners, building that form of
community around them, giving aplace to meet each other even
afterwards, can go a really,really long way for us as
podcasters, especially theindependent level.
Sam Sethi (25:57):
Yeah, I've got a WhatsApp group where I invite
super fans to that channel and Igive them early access to what
we're doing on TrueFans and sothey get all of the information.
They see it before anyone else.
I even ask them about pricing.
I ask them about you know thisis a feature we're launching.
What do you think Can you testit for me before anyone else?
(26:19):
And that group is so importantto me because they give me that
feedback.
Now, you know, we've all heardthe.
You know the old adjectiveHenry Ford asked what would you
want?
Faster?
All heard the.
You know the old adage of henryford asked what would you want
faster?
Horses would be the answer.
Right, not a new car.
But I actually think the peoplethat you identify important as
well, because they are the heavyusers, they are the bleeding
(26:43):
edge users and they're the onesthat are going to tell you, you
know, as creators, what theywant to go forward with.
So, fully agree, finding yoursuper fans, whatever you want to
call them, and creatingwhatever platform you want.
You know it could be threads,it could be blue sky, it could
be whatsapp, it doesn't have to.
You know, be that, but I dobelieve you're right.
Alex Sanfilippo (27:02):
Finding that community is critical now I
think it's really nice that youuse WhatsApp, because so many of
us, as we're creatives, we'recreators, we assume we need to
reinvent the wheel you justmentioned.
Use WhatsApp.
I'm sure it doesn't cost youanything or much.
I don't know how big your groupis, but the reality is people
can download that.
You're like okay, I built anapp for us to communicate and we
don't need to reinvent thewheel.
Keep it really simple.
(27:23):
And the other thing, sam, Idon't mean to just repeat what
you said, but it's very, veryimportant that we have our own
discernment as hosts.
An example when you startedworking on True Fans, people
never asked you for that.
What they asked you was can youtalk to someone at Apple so
they can make it more communitydriven?
Can you kind of do somepodcasting 2.0 stuff, like
that's what they were probablyasking you and you're like no
(27:44):
like, can you become a bookingagent and connect us manually?
No, they were describingPodmatch.
That takes wisdom, that takesdiscernment and us as
individuals, creatives.
We need to step back and say Idon't need to reinvent this, but
this is a gap.
This is something I need tocreate because I think it will
serve my community well.
Make sure you're working on theright thing.
Again, that takes some wisdomand discernment.
We don't have time to talkabout that.
Sam Sethi (28:06):
No, but we do have time to ask you if I wanted to
sign up for Podmatch.
Alex Sanfilippo (28:12):
Where would I go?
Podmatchcom has everything thatyou'll need and I do always
tell people to start atpodmatchcom slash free.
Whether you're a podcast guesthost or aspiring guest or host
or even an agency, there'ssomething there for you.
It's just nine quick ideas.
I don't ask for your emailaddress or anything like that.
There's just some things Ithink can help podcasters out.
So, again, to sign up ispodmatchcom, but if you start at
podmatchcom slash free, take alook at those nine ideas.
It's just kind of some of thethings that have really stood
(28:33):
out to me over the years.
But, sam, you're amazing, thankyou for doing what you do and
truly honored to be here today.
This was absolutely a
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