Patreon, AI voices, and HLS video

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Orson Welles (00:00):
The Pod News Weekly Review uses chapters.
Skip between the stories if youhave to or you know don't the
last word in podcasting news.

Sheila Dee (00:09):
This is the Pod News Weekly Review with James
Cridland and Sam Sethi.

John McDermott (00:15):
I'm James Cridland , the editor of Pod
News, and I'm John McDermottfrom Calaroga Shark Media.

Zach Justice (00:20):
It's a great source of secure revenue.
My favorite part is thecommunity.
I can speak to peopleone-on-one who are, I guess, the
truest fans or the truestviewers.

James Cridland (00:31):
Zach Justice from the Dropouts about why he
uses Patreon for his value forvalue, plus Radio Canada's Ooh
La La Lawyers and AI Voices.
This podcast is sponsored byBuzzsprout with the tools,
support and community to ensureyou keep podcasting, Start
podcasting.
Keep podcasting withbuzzsproutcom From your daily

(00:54):
newsletter, the Pod News WeeklyReview.
Sam Sethi is drinking wine andriding a bicycle in Alsace, in
France.
So we've got one of our powersupporters for Sam today, John
McDermott from Calaroga SharkMedia.
John, who are you and who isCalaroga Shark Media?

We make short form podcasts.
I use the word lovinglyMcDonald's.
They're tasty, they're quick,they aren't a lot to produce and
it makes a nice business for us.
I also host two podcasts DailyComedy News and Five Good News
Stories.
I'm the writer on a lot ofshows but we do a lot of dailies
.
They're all 10, 12, 15 minutes.

(01:28):
Put them out, run somemid-rolls and that's the
business.

And those daily shows.
There's the Daily Comedy Newswhich you host, I think.

Yes, and my business partner, mark Francis,
hosts Palace Intrigue which isabout the British royal family.
That's the big one.
That's what the company isbuilt off of.
Thank you, megan, and I writethat one.
It's a lot of fun to do and yousay McDonald's.

Mcdonald's, of course, very famous for being
consistent.
Whichever McDonald's you gointo in the world, the Big Mac
will taste the same, unless yougo to India, where they don't
eat cows, but accepting thatMcDonald's will taste exactly
the same.
So consistency is part of yoursecret sauce, is it?
I'll take that as high praise.

Yeah, it's just.
You know, other people aremaking big produced
documentaries and that's greatand I understand that some of
the things we make are nevergoing to win.
You know, podcast of the year,here's an AI hosted trivia show.
I get it, totally get it, butfor us and what we're doing, it
works just great and it's a lotof fun to do, just to create
every day.
And with a two-man company,there are days we roll out of

(02:28):
bed and one of us will text theother and be like, hey, how
about this thing?
Should we jump on that?
The recent example of that wasMark texted me and was like I
want to do a show about Diddyand the approval process was
cool.

Yeah, that's kind of how it should be,
Instead of three months worth ofmeetings and tediousness.
Spot the man who's worked for alarge broadcaster.
You've worked for a largebroadcaster there in the past,
haven't you?

Several and it's part of so.
I'm glad people get to hear myvoice Anytime I say on a podcast
, I admit, on social media, onLinkedIn and my sub stack, I
throw fastballs, so I likecoming on shows like this so I
can sound a little more reasoned.
But not working for thecorporation anymore has allowed
me to be a little more unleashedwith my opinions because, you

(03:16):
know, no one's going to send mea note and be like did you say
that?
You know?
So it's fun.
I'm 55 years old.
Now I understand that the mostof my home runs are on the back
of my baseball card and not thefuture, and it's just a great
place to be.
You reach a point where you'relike ah, you know what I like,
who I am and I'm having a goodtime.

I'm 54.
I hadn't considered that, sothanks for making me feel old,
john.

I'm sorry.

Let's kick off with stories about AI.
Actually, there's a Scottishvoiceover called Gayenne Potter,
who claims that she's had hervoice stolen and used as the
voice of Scott Rail a trainoperator.
Would you like to hear what shesounds like in the train?

Oh, yeah, this story.
You know, sometimes you've gotto read what you're signing, and
I know we're all guilty of that.
But this one to me is a littlelike ooh what did you guys do?

Yeah, exactly.
Well, this is what she soundslike.

We are now approaching Glasgow Central.

Please mind the gap when alighting from this
train.
I mean, that sounds all rightto me.

Yes, if it's what you thought was going to
happen.

Again, I imagine somebody signed something, but
that's the kind of thing thatyou you know, you get on a train
and you hear yourself, you'd belike, wait, what happened?
Yeah, and that's pretty wellexactly what happened.
She was sent a video from afriend saying oh wow, I've just
heard your voice on the train.
Scotrail is the train operatorfor all of Scotland, so it's not

(04:43):
a small thing.
And yeah, and apparently shewas most upset.
Now she says that she signed adeal in 2021 for a company

(05:04):
called ReadSpeaker or it mightbe RedSpeaker, I don't know
R-E-A-D Speaker believing thatit would only be used for
e-learning and accessibility.
She's calling for tighterregulations, but Reid's speaker
says it has repeatedly addressedher claims and you kind of get
the feeling that they've kept ongoing back to her and said no,
you signed this.
This is what it means.
But I mean, if I was avoiceover, my goodness, I mean,
if you have allowed your voiceto be cloned in that way, then
that's probably the end of yourcareer in terms of being a

(05:26):
voiceover, I guess.

I guess.
But for all of us.
You know, many of us in theindustry have cloned their voice
and I don't think any of thefolks that I do business with
are doing anything nefarious.
But maybe I haven't read page98 of something.

Well, yeah, exactly, I mean, it's not the
only AI voice in the news.
This week, the Orson Wellesestate has approved an AI voice
clone of the actor to produce anaudio guide which is available
within an app called StoryRabbit.
Orson Welles died in 1985, buthe's still alive in terms of his

(06:00):
voice.
This is what he sounds like.

Orson Welles (06:03):
The world has a memory.
It lingers in statues, breathesthrough buildings and flickers
at the edges of the familiar.
This is the voice of OrsonWelles, curious as ever, and I'm
ready to reveal what has beenhidden too long.

I mean, I have to say, as soon as you hear
Orson Welles' voice, I rememberlistening to the Alan Parsons
Project, which had an album withhim on, and that is the same
voice.
That is astonishingly good.
And the fact that the OrsonWelles estate, that his family
or the people that his familytrust to use his voice in this

(06:45):
way is quite a thing, I think.
What did you think of thatvoice?
You use AI a fair amount.
I have a big smile on my face.
That's Orson Welles, or what mymind thinks Orson Welles sounds
like.
That's fantastic.
On a similar note, Netflix hada recent documentary about
Churchill where they tookChurchill's words from his books

(07:06):
and had Churchill AI voiceChurchill, and I thought it made
the whole story better.
It was fantastic.
So I'm in favor of these things.
Again, if the estate is onboard and it's not, you know,
hey, let's clone James Cridlandand have him host the poker show
.
You know that's not cool, butif everybody's on board with
something, that's great.
So it's Orson Welles.
We understand he died what isit?

(07:27):
40 years ago, but great greatto hear him again.

I have a smile on my face.
Yeah, no, it's really good.
So you use AI for a fair amountof things, don't you?

Yeah, and you and I have discussed this
publicly, privately, and my takeon it.
For example, we just did a newseries.
It's called Eastwood Reloaded.
It's about Clint Eastwood.
I work for a two man company.
I sound like this.
Mark was born in Adelaide,australia, so he sounds like
that.
Neither one of us is quiteright for an Eastwood podcast.

(07:56):
You're not right for it, sam'snot right for it.
The AI voice we picked is rightfor it and you know I wrote the
words and an AI is voicing itand Mark produced it.
I think it sounds pretty good.
So we use AI voices regularly.
I use AI in show productiondevelopment.
Help me figure out, you know.
Again back to Eastwood.

(08:17):
I probably would have justhanded in Dirty Harry and the
good, the bad and the ugly andthe AI as I shaped it.
I was like you know what ideasare here.
It was like, oh, why don't youlook at something like American
Sniper, which he directed?
I'm like, oh, good, thought AIpal On some of our narrative
series.
I'll throw the scripts backinto AI after I'm done with them
.
I just went through.

(08:38):
I just did this on the actingpresident series and just had
the AI.
Check OK President series andjust had the AI check.
Ok, did I leave any danglingplot threads?
Did I not establish something?
Is something not clear?
Is there continuity here?
And it's great for helping withthat sort of thing.

So here's a little clip of some of that
Eastwood Reloaded podcast.

He was already a known quantity, but this this
is where the Eastwood mythbecomes something more than myth
.
Here's what you need to know.
Dirty Harry was released inDecember 1971, directed by Don
Siegel, a frequent Eastwoodcollaborator.
The film tells the story of SanFrancisco police inspector

(09:19):
Harry Callahan, a no-nonsensecop on the trail of a serial
killer who calls himself Scorpioa no-nonsense cop on the trail
of a serial killer who callshimself Scorpio.

Now, no shade on you, John, but I don't think
that you would have done as gooda job as that AI voice.

No, 100%, and that's where I come from.
So earlier today I produced twoweeks of our trivia series,
five Daily Trivia Questions.
I probably could host that one,but by having the AI do it and
you would sound great on that aswell but by having the AI do it
, I got everything in one take,except it said Paul McCartney

(09:53):
played bass guitar.
So I had to do one pickup and Iwas able to make two weeks of
shows in one hour.
So if I bill myself for my timeand then I assembled it and we
get two weeks of shows, throw insome mid-rolls for an hour of
whatever you want me to chargeme.
You know that's a nice business.

And I think you did something which was very,
you know, throws back to yourradio world, of reacting very,
very fast.
Pope Francis wasn't very well.
Everybody expected him to dierelatively quickly and all of a
sudden there was a show which Ithink was called White Smoke.
Wasn't very well.
Everybody expected him to dierelatively quickly and all of a
sudden there was a show which Ithink was called White Smoke,
wasn't it?

Yeah.
So we started that one sameconversation.
Mark would have sounded okay onthat, but one of the things I
get on my soapbox about isresources include time, humans,
money.
So if Mark is voicing WhiteSmoke, mark is not making
something else and there's onlytwo people at the company.
So we went with the AI.
That I think, sounds pretty goodand can I tell you, you know,

(10:51):
now that we're into the Pope Leoera, that show has evolved.
We're continuing to do it dailyfor now because Pope Leo, the
American Pope, there's all thesestories that maybe if a
different person had beenselected as Pope we wouldn't be
getting about.
You know the white socks andthe stamp collecting, and he's
got a brother who goes on FoxNews and it's almost become like

(11:12):
papal intrigue where we're justcovering right now the gossip
of Pope Leo.
But when, when the novelty diesdown, that will go back.
We have mapped out, we've gotto unproduced scripts that we
didn't use because of the deathof Pope Francis, but that will
go back to being a story of howdoes one select a new Pope.
There's fascinating stories foreach one of them, so that'll

(11:34):
eventually go back to maybe aweekly, or maybe we'll do say
Leo on Wednesday and thenarrative series on Sunday, but
right now it's kind of a gossipshow and it's fun.

I find it fascinating and I think the one
thing as we were chattingoffline, I think the one thing
that I realised and I've usedthis on stage now and people
seem to get it is in the 1980snobody said this song contains a
drum machine.
Nobody would have said that.
But that clearly was the thingin the 1980s.

(12:10):
Now perhaps what people shouldhave said is Milli Vanilli
aren't real and they're actuallysession singers and they're not
the people who you see on themusic videos and things.
And I suppose it's thatdifference.
If you were told that OrsonWells is still actually alive
and voicing this stuff, that's avery different conversation,

(12:31):
obviously.
I mean it's obviously a lie,but it's a very different
conversation to deceive somebodythan to basically just use the
tools in the method that theyare supposed to be used.
So yeah, I think the whole drummachine analogy, as I'm now
calling it, is an interestingone.

Yeah, and you and I we've had great
discussions about it.
One of them was me reacting towell, why didn't you say it was
an AI?
And I'm like I don't know, Idon't know why I didn't say it
was an AI.
I'm not hiding that it's an AI.
I'm actually proud that it's anAI.
So now I say, hey, this is anAI.
Voice or AI was used in theproduction of this series.

I believe you say proudly using AI these days.

Yeah, so you and I have had very respectful
educational discussions about itand I've appreciated them and
I've said that privately andpublicly.

Sheila Dee (13:15):
The Pod News Weekly Review with Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.

So Wednesday you covered a radio broadcaster
who's sending legal threats topodcast apps for using their RSS
feeds.
What's going on there?

Yeah, this is a really weird one.
So, yes, so the wonderfulpeople at Radio Canada, which is
one of the public servicebroadcasters in Canada, to the
north of where you areWhereabouts are you, by the way,
at the moment?
New Jersey, new Jersey?
Oh, there you go.
Well, so Radio Canada, all theway up there in Montreal, has

(13:53):
been sending out rather confusedlegal threats, or rather a
lawyer acting on their behalfbasically saying how dare you
use our podcast feeds that wehave published for the use of
linking to a podcast?
And just very strange, I thinkone of the things that I spotted
in the story you'll find it inthe Pod News newsletter One of

(14:15):
the things that I spotted wasthat the lawyer was basically
saying you must take all CBC andRadio Canada podcasts down, and
the CBC, who I contacted,basically said we know nothing
about this and please don't dothat.
So you know, radio Canada has avery different strategy, but

(14:37):
their strategy appears to behave a confused lawyer that
doesn't really understand howpodcasting works and get them to
send legal threats to podcastapps for using open RSS feeds
that are available in ApplePodcasts, and they haven't
ticked the box that says don'tgive this RSS feed to anybody
else.
So, you know, from my point ofview and I've been at the

(15:01):
receiving end of a number ofthese legal threats from my
point of view, you know, gettinglegal threats is pretty bad If
you believe in lawyers and youbelieve in the rule of law,
which I increasingly don't.
But if you do that, then to getthis sort of scary thing that
says, you know, time, sensitivelegal demand at the top of it is

(15:24):
, you know, it just adds stressto your life and stress that you
don't need, particularly ifyou're doing everything totally
right and above board.
So, yeah, so it was quiteinteresting being able to focus
on that, being able to, you know, essentially make a thing of
this particular lawyer.
It's not the first, it won't bethe last, but hopefully lawyers

(15:47):
will look at this and go, ohyeah, okay, actually we need to
get our ducks in a row, we needto understand what it is that we
are asking for here and we needto understand how podcasting
works first of all.
So, yeah, I mean I don't knowwhether you've you know, are you
comfortable with anybody usingyour RSS feed, as long as it's
being used in the right way?

Yeah, in the right way.
So you know I'll push back withanyone.
And just to keep Clint Eastwoodin mind, there's a scene in
High Plains, Drifter, where thetownspeople are scared of the
bad guys and they offer Clintanything he wants and he takes
anything he wants, you know.
So anyone using my RSS feed?
Spiritually, yes, but you know,I'd like to know what they're
using it for.

(16:30):
One thing I teach in my collegeclass it'll come up.
You know how much of a show canI use?
And aside from the legal ofthat, just the spiritual of that
, I'll explain.
If I put on Jimmy Fallon'sTonight Show tonight and he goes
, hey, I discovered this newpodcast.
It's called Daily Comedy News.
It's really great.
Let's listen.
I'll be ecstatic tomorrow If hedoes it for a week.
I'll be ecstatic the 500th timethey do that.

(16:51):
At some point I'm going to callNBC and be like you know, hey,
can I get something here?
So yes, I'm cool with you usingmy RSS feed, but it's all
situational.

That's a great point and it's exactly.
It's what you know if you'reusing it for what RSS is to be
used for, which is to populate apodcast app or to be in a
directory.
I mean, heaven knows how manyof these legal things Adam and
Dave get at the podcast index,for example things Adam and Dave

(17:25):
get at the podcast index, forexample but using RSS the way
that it's supposed to be used,that should never require a
large, complicated legaldocument.
At the end of the day, you canhide your RSS feed, you can make
sure that it isn't scrapable,and that would be the way of
doing it.
So, yeah, if there's anythingthat I wish I could stamp out,

(17:46):
it's dumb lawyers who don'tquite understand how the world
works.

No, and it's interesting.
I've described a big part of mycareer being showbiz adjacent,
especially the 10 years atSirius, and usually things don't
go straight, lawyer.
Usually they start with a phonecall of like hey, james, it's
McDermott, what's the deal withthis?
How do we work this out?
It usually starts friendly.

Yeah, I would agree and I think particularly a
taxpayer funded company ortaxpayer funded organization
getting a presumably expensivelawyer to start sending all of
this stuff out.
Now, it might be the lawyerthinks that he's got carte
blanche from the client to sendall of these things out and to

(18:32):
bill hourly for them.
I mean it might be a nicelittle earner, but from my point
of view it's just not a goodthing for the podcast industry.
So if there's anything that Ican do, stopping that sort of
thing would be quite helpful,and I should thank Podcast
Addict, the app, for forwardingme the legal demands initially

(18:55):
and allowing me to mention them,because it makes it much more
helpful if you can actuallypoint at.
You know, this is the podcastapp that was threatened, because
they are doing the right thingin most cases.
So, yeah, I think it's a goodthing.
Now let's move on to Spotifynews.
We would play the jingle, but Ican't be bothered.

(19:18):
Spotify launched an enhancedpodcast discovery tool for its
app.
There are now recommendationson the home screen quotes for
users who love podcasts endquotes.
I'm not quite sure how thoserecommendations are chosen.
There's also threaded views intheir comments and a following
view within the app.
Have you seen therecommendations on the home

(19:41):
screen and, if you have, john,what have you actually seen
being recommended to you?
What new unearthed podcastmight there be there?

I have.
And before I say another word,I just want to be fair to
Spotify and say I have not triedto train this thing at all.
I do not usually use Spotify asa podcast app, so I want to be
fair there.
But the first thing that wasrecommended to me was Amy
Poehler's podcast, the currentnumber one podcast, I think on
both charts.
So I'm not sure that washelpful to unsurface Amy

(20:13):
Poehler's podcast.
I don't think that's theintention.
But that was the first time Ihad opened the app in a minute.
So, okay, free pass on that one.
Day two, I was served somethingI hadn't heard of, wasn't
interested in, and again, Ihadn't trained the algo.
But I was like, okay, this isnew.
The next two days I got a showabout fried chicken and I kind
of appreciate that.

(20:33):
I was like, oh, this is fun.
But then it said the word watchand I was like, oh, no, no, no,
you don't know me at all, We'llget to that.
So this morning it was onlyoffering me music on my home tab
.
So I switched over to thepodcast tab and I'll tell you,
james, there they had playingunder the cover art like a live.
I could read the podcast as Iwas deciding whether or not I

(21:07):
wanted to listen to it or, Iguess, even watch it, but I
thought the transcription thingwas really interesting.
I'm excited about what they'reup to.
It's not all the way there yet,for me anyway, but I think it's
great whatever they're up to.

Yeah, I mean, I think anything that helps people
find shows is a useful thing.
I've just thought to myself oh,I should probably check it
myself, shouldn't I?
And on my home screen at themoment is the Louis Theroux
podcast.
Now, louis Theroux being aBritish broadcaster who looks

(21:40):
very much like me, and yeah,that would be a good.
I mean, it does say you know,watch now and all of that kind
of stuff.
But yes, that makes sense.
One person did contact me andsaid because it auto plays, it
auto plays a little bit of theshow.
Does that count as a play,particularly if it's on

(22:01):
pass-through?
I think my understanding is itdoesn't and it won't actually
appear on pass wish.
To be honest, I wish that itwas a little bit more democratic

(22:25):
and it used the pod role andthings like that, because that's
helpful.
But yeah, you know, what have Igot on my podcast's homepage?
I've got songs that explain the90s, focusing on no One Knows,
by Queens of the Stone Age.
That's a very Spotify thing,isn't it?
Followed by a Danny Bakerpodcast, who again is another

(22:47):
British podcaster, followed bythe Guardian Full Story that's
again British.
So Adam Buxton British, theNews Quiz, british.
So they've clearly understoodwhere I'm from, although weirdly
, I'm in Australia and I have anAustralian bank account
connected to that, so who knowswhat's going on there.
But yeah, that was certainlyinteresting.

(23:09):
So, yeah, I think there'sdefinitely something there in
terms of that.

I just opened mine back up, so on the main tab
I'm not seeing any podcasts.
I am being recommended JoeRogan with Ron Weitz I won't eye
roll that, because that'sabsolutely something I would
listen to anyway Bill Simmons,which I did listen to earlier
today, and Dan Cummins isanother comedian.
Yeah, you're a big, big BillSimmons fan, aren't you?
You know, I think Bill got thisright 10 years ago and I have

(23:36):
said this to people who I'veworked with for years of because
I approach everything from abudget standpoint and the
sentiment of let's go in theother room and just talk about
basketball to me makes so muchsense, and Bill's built an
empire on that as opposed todoing these you know, big, giant
productions the last 10 weeks,and then how are we going to
make the money back?
So I love what Bill does, and Ithink what you're getting at is

(23:57):
my confusion over Bill Simmons.
Head of stock programming orwhatever his title was pushing
everyone to YouTube instead ofSpotify video.
That just confused me.

Yes, yes, there's a lot of confusion with
Bill Simmons.
I liked the way that he quiterecently, in a show of his,
basically said that everybodywho works in his industry are
all shysters and untrustworthypeople and blah, blah, blah.
And you're there thinkingshould you really be saying that
out loud?
But maybe that's part of thecharm, who knows?

(24:31):
So Calaruga Shark Media does itdo anything with Patreon or
similar subscription tools likethat?

No Patreon.
We do use Supporting Cast,which I like a lot.
We also offer the shows mostlycommercial free.
We've started to do more earlyreleases.
As things are produced, I saidto Mark I go, why don't we just
put them all out and let peoplelisten early?
I like Apple subscriptions alot.
There's less friction.
I understand Apple takes theircoin out of the wallet, but the

(24:59):
trade-off there for the lessfriction and being able to tell
the listeners click the bannerthat says uninterrupted
listening, that's just.
It's so much straightforwardand I see a lot better
conversion on Applesubscriptions.
I also for the comedy show.
I do buy me a coffee, whichworks pretty well.
I like buy me a coffee, yeah no, it's a good thing.

Buymeacoffeecom slash James Cridland.
You can always always go overthere.
No, it's a good thing and Ifind it fascinating.
So I link to Buy Me A Coffeeand to my own tip jar on Stripe
and it's just a Stripe paymentpage and you can put in anything
you like on that particularpage.
No one ever uses the unbrandedStripe thing.

(25:38):
Everybody uses the Buy Me ACoffee or the Patreon, which I
find fascinating.
It's that power of the brand.
I did write in the Pod Newswebsite.
I did write my own Patreonbecause I thought why am I
giving Patreon some of my money?
Wrote my own version, whichnobody used and everybody
continued to use Patreon and Ithought, well, that does show

(26:01):
some of that.
I think Funny that we mentionedPatreon, though, because I was
at the podcast show a couple ofweeks ago and I caught up with
Stephanie at Patreon, but firstone of their podcasts that uses
Patreon a lot, the Dropouts.
I caught up with Zach Justiceand I started by asking Zach who

(26:22):
he was.
I do a multitude of things.

I have two dogs that I walk and outside of that
I guess I do podcasting.
It's not a great podcast, but Ihave one.
Everyone does these days.
And what is your podcast?
I have Dropouts podcast,because I dropped out, so I'm
uneducated, so anything you heartoday that you take with you is
on your own concern, becauseI've already told you I'm

(26:44):
uneducated.
And then I have another onecalled the Lunch Table.
So two podcasts in a week andfor some reason that's
apparently a job nowadays.

We know of your podcast.
They're big, big, big shows.
You are here because theexcellent people at Patreon have
brought us together.
I'm assuming that is becauseyou do stuff on Patreon.
That is true.
Why did you get involved inPatreon as a different revenue
stream?

So my mom decided she wanted to go on more
vacations.
So I was like, oh, I guess Ineed to earn more money.
And then a paywall is a greatway to do that and Patreon is
the best one in my opinion.
So we give them extra content.
We give them the 15 to 20minutes of extra podcasts of
each podcast.
Extra podcasts a month that wedo a drunk episode.
So again, I dropped out ofcollege and I get paid.

(27:32):
It's a wild west out here.
But no, patreon's been great.
We just filmed.
We rented out Mel's Diner inHollywood, which is like a very
famous diner, uh, and we brought, uh, a ton of our fans in and
they were able to watch us docompetitions and film a podcast.
So Patreon has been a goodlittle partner.
I feel like I'm married withoutthe commitment.
It's beautiful.

There are quite a few podcasters who say that
adding additional content that'squite a lot of hard work.
Is it an important part of the?
The patron experience?
Is that why people are signingup?

Yeah, I think.
I think they also want to feelthat we give out so much free
content.
Obviously, and again, um, we'venoticed a lot of people are
like sometimes I don't watch it,I just feel so nice that I get
to help you guys out because yougive me so much already.
But but no, uh, definitely amajority is there because we
give um the extra content, um,and it's like, uh, it's like a

(28:25):
little club almost.
You know, we've got ourcommunity which understands the
quirks and our ins and outs ofinside jokes and, uh, we go to
them for, for new concepts andthings.
So it really feels like a, anextended family, of a place
where we can feel safe from thescariness of the full internet.

a place where we can feel safe from the
scariness of the full internet.
Yeah, and of course you know,advertising sometimes means that
you can't necessarily say someof the things that you want to
end up saying how important isPatreon to you as a business
when you're making your shows,are you able to give us any sort
of numbers?

Yes, I'm very rich from Patreon.
Thank you.
I'm not allowed to giveofficial numbers because
Robbie's sitting right next tome and he'll get mad at me.
But just know, I'm doing sowell and I want to specify that
I'm not giving any of it tocharity.
But I would if I found acharity that I liked, but so far
I haven't.

But are we talking about?
You know?

an extra five 10% or are we talking about a
significant additional Extra 50%?
Yeah, if you do it right.

And so in your mind, what is doing it right, I
guess?

it's the way that some people just create, I guess
, a Patreon maybe, or really anymodel of paywall, to just get
money when it should becommunity building.
So if you're giving them morevalue than they're signing up
for, I think that's just abeautiful thing and people
really enjoy it.
So we like to over deliver.

(29:52):
Our first tier is five bucks amonth, so we really wanna make
sure they get more than theydeserve not than they deserve,
but than we deserve.
I'm they deserve, but then wedeserve.
I'm just kidding from them.

So yeah, you talk about community.
There are other methods outthere where you can earn money
from your audience, but youdon't necessarily, you can't
actually communicate with themone-on-one.
Is the community aspect of itan important part?

Yeah, I think that's the main reason we do it.
I mean, obviously it's, it's agreat source of secure revenue,
which you know, say, theadvertisers go away or for
whatever reason the algorithmchanges, they're all there, um,
but I, my favorite part is thecommunity, because I can speak
to people one-on-one who are, Iguess, the truest fans or the
truest viewers, the people thatreally understand the content
the most, so they can usuallygive the best ideas when it

(30:40):
comes to what they want to see.
A lot of people they just needa friend, and today a lot of
people are lonely, so it's niceto get that one-on-one time with
a lot of individuals.

Stephanie from Patreo (30:56):
Stephanie , what do you do at Patreon?
First of all, I'm head ofbusiness development, and that
can mean a number of things, butat Patreon I am responsible for
product partnerships.
So looking at platforms that wefeel can enhance the tools and
services that creators areoffering their fans, and then
also channel partnerships.
So that's looking at where docreators live at scale, where
members live at scale, and howdo I partner with those
platforms to funnel them toPatreon.

And is the story of Zach and Robbie.
You know, you know, uh, one ofthose stories that you hear
every, every day at Patreon.

Stephanie from Patreon (31:26):
The great thing about Patreon is
everybody comes from differentwalks of life, different stories
on how they got there.
I just actually finished apanel with um, the Red Handed
Podcast, and they met at a bar.
And if, if a few secondsdiffered, they would have never
met.
And so, um, it's really aboutpeople who are creators, who are
coming to express themselvesfreely, to build relationships

(31:49):
of their community and to buildbusinesses around them.

There's a number of different services which do
the kind of Patreon thing.
They don't all have Jack Conteas the boss.
What's different about Patreonto those other services?

Yeah, I would focus just on our
strengths.
I think that A Jack Conte is aphenomenal CEO and he's a
creator himself, and so, beingpart of a mission-driven company
, that creator well-being andsustainability is so woven into
our DNA that that speaks volumes.
And sustainability is so woveninto our DNA that that speaks

(32:26):
volumes.
But then also, looking at howmuch we advocate for creators
versus other businesses might bebeholden to advertisers, to
brands, or even signing upcreators, where they pay up
front but not vested into theirsuccess.
Our platform is if the creatormakes money, we make money.
If they don't make money, wedon't make money, and so that

(32:47):
aligns incentives and objectivesso that we are fully vested
into their success.
And so we are incentivized todo IRL events, like we did with
Dropouts, because we want themto be successful.
It all becomes a flywheel, andso I just think the passion
about creators, itdifferentiates ourselves.
And then we have putsignificant investment into our

(33:11):
podcasting vertical.
We have over 40,000 podcasters,6.7 million paid members for
those podcasts and they madeover $472 million last year.
And so I think that indicatesto the market and to our
creators and to fans that wetake podcasting really seriously
and and we've been buildingtools to help you build

(33:31):
sustainable businesses on ourplatform.

I.
Finally, he threatens me thatif I don't make him more money,
he'll come to my house.
He didn't see what he'd dothere, but he has threatened me
He'll come house and sing.

That's the.
That's the scary thing.

Yeah, he's gonna bring the whole band, or he's
gonna bring the whole pontamoose or whatever they're called
and just jam out my lastquestion to you, uh, stephanie,
is what, what, um, what have youlearned?

works really well.
What are, what are the what?
What is the dropout doing that?
Uh, other podcasters shouldalso be doing.

Yeah, I think.
First, podcasters understandingthat it doesn't take like a
whole full production house tobuild a new business on Patreon.
You can literally keep thecameras on longer and deliver
extended content, bonus content.
I think, making thingsexclusive on Patreon but
minimizing the amount of extraeffort you have to put in,

(34:23):
that's the highest ROI, becauseyour fans are going to want to
want more coming from thosechannels.
I think also the communitytools that we have available via
community chats, being able todo DMs, comments, and we're also
launching live later thissummer so you can do live Q&A
with your fans or do a liveDJing session or teach them how

(34:48):
to play an instrument.
So many things that allow youto have extra touch points with
your community.
And then, when it's time togalvanize them for IRL events,
like at Mel's Diner, they'reripe to go because they're
energized, they're excited andit's something that they can't
get outside of Patreon.

Very cool.
Stephanie Zach, thank you somuch for your time.
I appreciate it.
I know you are.

I'm giving him a handshake for our audio
listeners.

Yes, thank you On the record, On the record.
So there we are, and if youwould like to obviously go and
support the PodNews Patreon,then do that.
Podnewsnet slash Patreon, I'llget two accounts.
Radio and podcasting seem to bemerging.

(35:34):
John iHeart have just announcedthe launch of a new nightly
radio show and podcast which iscalled True Crime Tonight.
The show is going live thisweek on 20 broadcast radio
stations throughout the US.
Is this where you think radioshould be going?

I think that's a lot of fun, especially, you
know, we both come out of radiothe nighttime, especially the
overnight format, always allowedfor talk, a chance to try
things out.
I think this is neat, ratherthan throwing on another show
discussing the issues of the dayor the politician of the day.
It's different and it may getpodcasting content in front of

(36:14):
casuals.
I think that's great.

Yeah, I thought it was interesting.
It's obvious what iHeart aredoing, given that the artwork
for True Crime Tonight is pink,so it's pretty obvious what's
going on there.
They are trying to get moreyounger women listening to their
radio stations.
Now if it's gone live on 20broadcast radio stations, that
sounds a lot to a European.

(36:37):
That is not a lot.
Iheart own over a thousand, sothis is most definitely a very
limited test, but I think it'scertainly an interesting test.
To put true crime content outon the radio.
I don't think that that'sreally a thing.

It certainly isn't here in Australia or in
Europe Is the much true crimeradio where you are Not that I'm
aware of, and I rarely hit thatradio button these days.
I'm wondering here an educatedguess could part of this be
added value?
Hey, buy some of our iHearttrue crime podcasts and we'll

(37:16):
also air your spots in otherwiseunsold inventory.

I am absolutely sure it is.
Yeah, I'm absolutely sure it is.
I see, I mean, many iHeartstations now have a huge, great,
big chunk of podcasts on Sundayevening, which is typically a
time when nobody listens to theradio that would normally listen
during the week, and so it's avery specific time to have a
listen to the radio.

(37:41):
And you can very much see thatif you sponsor this particular
show, not only do you get thepodcast, but you also get a big
chunk of audience on ourbroadcast radio stations, and
that way they can charge theclient more, and I think that
it's probably less about addedvalue and more about a
justification for the chargethat they would give that

(38:03):
particular client.
But yeah, I find it fascinating, and more radio stations
broadcasting podcasts issomething that I would expect to
see over the coming months andyears.
The Edison Research InfiniteDial seems to be now relatively
close in terms of the amount ofspoken word content that is

(38:28):
being listened to on the radioand the amount of spoken word
content that is being listenedhappen in the next year, year
and a half, but I suspect thatpodcasting will overtake radio
in terms of the primary placethat we listen to spoken word
content, and why not use thesame content?

(38:50):
You know more than once.

How are the radio stations getting back on
the clock?
At some point you have tore-sync with the top of the hour
, even if it's a hard fade.
Mid-sentence, in the middle ofa true crime story at 3am, is
there a live jock making thingstime out?
Are we just playing a 90-secondmusic bed?
Who cares?
I'd just be curious.

I have heard iHeart's podcast.
Radio stations in the pastliterally fade a podcast out to
hit the news at the top of thehour which is awful, and I mean
in this day and age I have noidea why they're hitting news at
the top of the hour.
It's very easy just to bufferthat in your play out system and

(39:28):
play it when it's next ready.
You know when that podcast hasfinished and if that podcast
finishes 30 seconds.
I mean I used to sometimes.
I did a breakfast show for aradio station in the north of
England.
I did a breakfast show for aradio station in the north of
England and I used to turn up athalf past five or so and I

(39:48):
would be on the air at six andit would be automated until six
when I would turn up.
Sometimes I didn't get into thestudio in time to actually hit
the commercial break, to go intothe news, so I would go next
door to the other studio thatnobody was in, record the news
and then play another song playanother song, and then I could
finish that song, as the songwas supposed to finish, and play

(40:11):
the ad break, and then or thestop set or whatever it is that
you Americans want to call it,and then go into the news and no
one knew, because it justsounded better.
I didn't have to pot somethingearly.
So, uh, yeah, I think a lot ofit is down to how it gets played
out.
A lot of it is down to you know, do you actually play that uh

(40:31):
show that shows nominally Idon't know 25 minutes?
Do you play that at half pastso that you finish in time to
play a song which you can thenfade out?
And it sounds less bad thanfading out, and the killer was
you know.
So, yeah, so I don't know, butI find all of it fascinating.

(40:52):
I think if there's one thingabout radio that drives me a
little bit mad, radio is nowfull of people that don't care
very much about radio, and Iwish it was not the case, but
that's kind of how it is.

Your just real quick story.
Your news stories reminded meof a trick I learned from my
mentor and former WRPD, davidBernstein, who taught me a lot
of this.
He taught me when you get up inthe middle of the night for
reasons men, get up in themiddle of the night at least
once put the radio on for fiveseconds and then call the
hotline and ask any questions.
Like James, did you and Samjust talk about Spotify?

(41:26):
Yeah, yeah, okay, no, I wasn'tsure.
I was like half asleep.
Yeah, the show sounds great.
And then go right back to bedand it makes your air staff
think you're a hawk and alwayslistening.

Yes, very clever , very wise.
One thing I would like to justmention is I hope that Adam
Curry has now emptied hisdishwasher.
Apparently, this show is theshow that he listens to when he
empties the dishwasher,apparently on a Friday morning.
So he was saying so there yougo.

(41:55):
So I hope that you've emptiedit now.
Podcast events on the Pod NewsWeekly Review it now.
Podcast events on the Pod NewsWeekly Review yes, lots of
things coming up for you.
If you want to go to someevents and some exciting things
going on, For example, come toCalgary, beautiful Calgary in
Alberta, in Canada, you can goto Pond Summit YYC which is

(42:17):
happening this September.
There's an excellent lineup ofspeakers, only slightly spoiled
by the fact that I'll be thereas well.
Live podcast shows from SickBoy and from CBC's Crime Story
with Kathleen Goldtar, availablewherever you get your podcasts.
So that should be fun.
Podsummit YYC is linked fromthe PodNews events page
podnewsnet slash events.

(42:39):
Also in the UK, the BBC islaunching a partnership with the
Crossed Wires Podcast Festivalin Sheffield.
They are running a wholeweekend of free shows in early
July.
If you want tickets and you'rein the UK, or even if you're not
in the UK hey who cares Thenyou can go and watch those
particular things.
You can buy those tickets today.
They've probably already soldout, but that's basically how

(43:02):
that works.
Other events going on podcastmovement, of course, in August
in Dallas, Texas, If you use thecode PODNEWS, you save $75.

And Radio Days Asia in Jakarta in Indonesia,
which I'm going to lookingforward to.
The CodePod news there willalso save you some money't have
any plans right now.
I guess part of it is justtechnology that I can connect
with the people I need to see,and I feel like I just saw a
bunch of people.
I had a great time in Chicago.
It was great to see you andother people in the industry,
though.

Yeah, no, chicago was great fun and there
is definitely something aboutwandering past the bar and
seeing somebody who you haven'thad a reason to talk to for
years.
Yes, you can do Zoom calls andall of that, but actually just
the randomness of it is a veryhelpful thing and being able

(44:14):
just to sit and have a meal withsomebody.
I think it's the first time Imet Ivo Terra.
We were at Podfest, I think,and Ivo needed somebody to go
and have lunch with, and so, youknow, it was just great to meet
him and great to chat with him.
So I think that these eventsstill have a place.

(44:36):
I'm looking forward to podcastmovement in Dallas, in Texas.
I mean, obviously, dallas inAugust is always going to be
interesting, let's hope.
The last time that we werethere, there was an invasion of
crickets these massive, greatbig bugs that were everywhere,
and it was very unpleasant, solet's hope that they won't be
there for this time.

(44:57):
But yeah, I'm looking forwardto taking part.
Sadly, it's not in the towncentre or what should I be
calling it Downtown?
It's not in downtown, it's insome random resort hotel
somewhere.
I would much rather that wewere in downtown, to be honest,
but still, it should be fun, sohopefully see many other people

(45:21):
there.
The Tech Stuff on the Pod NewsWeekly Review.
Yes, it's the stuff you'll findevery Monday in the Pod News
newsletter.
Here's normally where Sam talkstechnology, but I'm going to
talk about the Podcast StandardsProject, john.
I'm going to talk about thePodcast Standards Project John,
which has published its thinkingbehind video podcasting.

(45:42):
Video podcasting it's thefuture, and they are talking
about HLS delivery of video.
So, basically, hls is a way ofallowing somebody to download a
video, but instead ofdownloading one great big file,
you're downloading lots and lotsand lots of tiny 10 second
files, and the benefit of doingthat is that it allows you to do

(46:04):
things like work out how fastthe viewer's internet connection
is, so you can feed them eithera decent quality video stream
if they've got a great internetconnection, or feed them one
which is lower quality but willwork better.
So that's a good start.
It also, of course, means thatwe can potentially get some more

(46:26):
consumption analytics out ofthat, and you don't have to
download the entire video if youonly watch the first five
minutes of it.
So that's all good.
Hls streams can still bedownloadable, which is important
, just to point out.
Do you think?
I mean, you've clearly gotviews about video anyway, john,
just before we dive into theviews about video.

(46:48):
Do you think that if video is athing, we should leave video to
YouTube and Spotify, or shouldwe have a solution that works
with OpenRSS?

I'm always in favor of OpenRSS.
I think this is the point where, on a podcast about podcasting,
I'm supposed to say somethinglike video's always been part of
podcasting since 2007,.
James, remember the tiki bar?
I think it's great, andespecially if you can get things
to people without using up alltheir bandwidth.

(47:20):
I actually hit a show that I'ma fan of.
I hit them on the side and Iwas like hey guys, you put out
an 800 megabyte one hour audiofile.
I don't know what's going onthere, but you're going to eat
up my phone.
Can we shrink that down alittle bit?
But yeah, I'm pro.

Yeah, yeah.
So a pro in terms of at leastmaking sure that we have an
option that isn't just givingour crown jewels away to YouTube
or to Spotify Video as a whole.
You were really surprised whenwe connected on Clean Feed that
we use to record this particularshow.
You said, oh, there really isno video because I had made a

(47:56):
joke about it.
And you said, oh no, therereally is no video, is there?
What are your views about videoand podcasts?

So I think, from a creator standpoint, be
everywhere.
I subscribe to Jimmy BuffettTheory.
The great musician JimmyBuffett made a lot of money
doing live concerts, but he alsostreamed every concert.
So if you didn't want to go seeJimmy, you could stay home and
watch him on YouTube, and he hada very successful touring
career.
So I believe in be everywhere.
When I do eye roll video, it'spart of like.

(48:29):
You know, if people werewatching you and I have this
conversation that right now Idon't know about your end, my
end's not that interesting,right?
So you know why would we make avideo of this?
I usually listen to you and Sam.
I walk the dog long and eitherFriday afternoon or on Saturdays
, um and a long, long dog walk.
Uh, we go for an hour, but I'mone of those crazy people that
listen at 2.2 X.

(48:50):
Sorry, adam, 2.2.
Hi Adam Adam.
I listened to you on Fridays aswell at 2.2.
Hi Adam Adam.
I listen to you on Fridays aswell at 2.2.
Love the show.
I know he's going to be so mad,you know.
So with all these things, itdepends what we're making.
If I've got the talk show setand my guest is a prominent

(49:11):
politician and we've got a fourcamera shoot and I have a nice
suit on and the makeup is thereand the lighting is good, sure,
let's make a video.
Two guys talking aboutpodcasting Maybe not Doesn't
need to be a video.
But I think my big thing and mycaution to the industry is I
worry about companies readingthings and going, oh, we got to
get into video.
How can we?
Don't have video?

(49:31):
And we hire a video team andthen maybe the return isn't
there, and then we lay the videoteam off and video and we hire
a video team and then maybe thereturn isn't there, and then we
lay the video team off and thenwhere are we?
And I'm really worried aboutthat happening the rush to video
and then the oh, that didn'twork, tap the brakes, what's the
new shiny object you know andwe've talked about.
I can't remember what was thething.
What was the live thing onTwitter X that we were all doing
for five minutes and there wasfire or something right.

Well, it was Vine, I think, which was
something.
And then, yeah, exactly, I mean, I've seen a ton of people
who've been hired and then firedbecause Facebook changed its
mind in terms of how video worksas well.
I know that Adam Curry is verykeen in his view that video is a
fad and it'll go away again, Ithink.

(50:15):
From my point of view, I'm alittle bit more sort of
existential on this.
We have a specific place ofproducing audio first, content
stuff your ears when your eyesare busy.
That is significantly whatpodcasting does and that makes
us different to every othermedia out there.
Now, if we all of a sudden startmaking TV, then we are no

(50:39):
different to all of the otherpeople who are making crap TV on
YouTube.
And all of a sudden, thepodcast industry just goes away,
and it's why I'm keen that weunderstand what podcasting is,
because at some point we need tounderstand.
Okay, the podcast industry isworth this much.

(51:00):
The podcast industry is growing.
More people are listening topodcasts than ever before.
All of that kind of usefulnarrative for advertisers and
for brands goes away if there'sno such thing as a podcast
industry anymore and the onlything that we are spruiking, to
use an Australian phrase is justvideo.

(51:22):
It's just cheap, cheap video.
So I think, from my point ofview, I like the fact that we
have a separate identity and I'mconcerned if that separate
identity goes away.

So, yeah, absolutely make video, knock
yourself out, but it's still apodcast right, yeah, and I share
the concern about maybe thepower being taken away from the
creator.
If some of the bigger platformswere to change their mind about
something, where does thatleave you?
I actually go the other way.
I'm a fan of several YouTubers.
These shows where eight peopleare in Zoom boxes and they talk

(51:59):
about is the new Fantastic Fourmovie any good?
I love that stuff.
I have an app.
I rip those videos to audio anddrop them into Pocket Cast and
most nights use that to help medrift off to sleep as we argue
about the Fantastic Four, youknow.
So those are videos that Idon't even want your video.
I don't want to look at theeight of you in the boxes.
I just want to hear what youhave to say.

Yeah, well, it's a weird old thing.
Silas on Linux has sent us athousand sats through Fountain.
He says that he's coming aroundon HLS on the technical side of
it because of themulti-resolution thing of it.
And he also says of course, youknow you can do range headers
and things like that, but thebenefit of using HLS is to allow

(52:43):
you to have a resolution thatis right for the individual app
or the individual device thatyou're watching all of this
stuff on.
But he says, slowly, I'm comingaround to it, I need to play
more with HLS.
Well, silas, good news Silas isbeginning to understand the

(53:04):
benefits of HLS, so that's afine thing Talking about

(53:25):
feedback.
I guess we should do this.
Yes, so many different ways toget in touch with us Fan mail by
using the link in our shownotes, super comments on True
Fans or boosts everywhere else,or, of course, email as well.
And we share any money that wemake too not with you, john, but
Sam and I share all of that.
We got a fan mail this week Fanmail, of course, through our

(53:45):
sponsor, buzzsprout.
You'll find a link in our shownotes that says something like
send Sam and James a text and amysterious person ending3-6 from
Akron.
Is that how you pronounce it inOhio?

Akron, Akron Ohio.

Akron, akron.
There you go, who, I suspect,is Dave Jackson.
He says Preach on, james.
Loved your rant on everythingbeing called a podcast.
Yes, there's a thing We've gotsome boosts as well.
What was our first boost there,john?

635 stats from Neil Veglio, who writes here's
how radio listening is measured.
Survey person.
Have you ever listened to theradio?
Person?
Yes, survey radio stronger thanever.
He's got me there.
I have an industry friend who acertain newsletter comes out
most mornings and four days aweek.
It's you know, radio isstronger than it's ever been.
It's bigger than it was whenCousin Brucey was on WABC and we

(54:41):
just look, guys, let's be alittle real.

I love this.
So radio here every single yearpublishes something saying more
people are listening tocommercial radio than ever
before.
Well, yes, that's because herein Australia the amount of
people who live in Australia isgrowing more than ever before
every year, so there is agrowing population.

(55:09):
Amazingly, it means that morepeople do things that people do.
But yes, neil is an ex-radioperson.
He's also co-hosted this show along, long time in the past and
yes, he has a view about radiosurveys.
I would just turn around andsay that radio surveys are some
of the biggest surveys that youwill find anywhere in the world

(55:32):
and they're all remarkablyconsistent.
There's still nine out of 10people listen to the radio every
single week.
And so there, neil, he does add.
Just so James has a good excuseto crucify me.
So consider yourself crucified311 sats from the late Bloomer
actor.
He was talking about the UKpodcast show or podcast show

(55:55):
London doing a US version, whichI said I don't think that
they're going to do, because Ithink it would actually
significantly harm the Londonevent if they produced one in
New York or something, and thenlazy Americans wouldn't bother
going all the way over to London.
What the late bloomer actorsays is could they consider

(56:15):
using the success of the UKversion by rotating it annually
to other countries?
So maybe the US next year,australia after that, then
return to the UK.
Perhaps that would maintainparticipation and allow locals
of each country an opportunityto attend such a high quality
event?
I would say no, no, no, no, no,no, no.
I agree.
And the reason why I would saythat is, firstly, podcast

(56:37):
movement does that within the US, and it's just a frustration
every single year to go.
Where are we going this time?
Does anybody know anythingabout Dallas?
Or you know Denver?
So all of that kind of stuff isjust deeply irritating.
And so, from my point of view, Ithink one of the reasons why

(57:01):
the podcast show London has beenso successful in the last four
years is that it's been in thesame venue.
Everybody knows where thatvenue is, everybody knows where
the good hotels are, everybodyknows where the good pubs are
now and the good restaurants,and you begin to.
You know, ok, I'm not having torelearn something just to go to
a conference, it's justsomewhere where you know.

(57:22):
I know where to buy a cheapsandwich if I want to go and
find some lunch from the AmazonFresh store just over the road.
You know all of that kind ofstuff.
So I think that makes it much,much easier than finding a new
place.
I mean that venue that we wentto in Chicago, john.
I mean it was a venue that was10 times bigger than it needed

(57:44):
to be, wasn't it?

A 20-minute walk from my room to the coffee bar
yeah, it really was.

I mean, you can see that being a fantastic venue
for a large event.
Podcast Movement Evolutions wascharitably not a large event.
Podcast Movement Evolutions wascharitably not a large event.
I mean over a thousand peoplethere, but even so.
So I think, yes, that wasdefinitely a thing.
What else have we got here?
Oh, more Silas on Linux.

(58:12):
Plenty of that.
But he sent a massive, greatbig boost, hasn't he here?

Yeah, I don't even want to properly pronounce
the number, I'll read it One,two, three, four, five, six
stats.
That's a lot of sats.

That is a lot of sats.
Yes, what has he said?
Why has he sent us that much?

He says he's slightly bitter and sad about
PodCamp.
The drinks evening was good,though.
Reason I say that was I stayedthere until 10 past 10, talking
to Elias and Claire.
Having another effective day tocode was okay too.
I still use PodCamp'scancellation as motivation for
developing, so I can just giveyou the money next time.
Thanks, guys.
I'm coming around on this, bythe way, james.

Yes, and I'll tell you what 123456s sats is.
That is, 130 US dollars.
Wow, ah, that's an incredibleamount.
So here's hoping it's in myumbral and Sam's umbral, but
yeah, that is an incredibleamount.
So, silas, thank you for that.
Thank you for looking after us.

(59:12):
I know that we had some.
I know that.
Yes, the bar bill was slightlylarger than Sam was expecting.

I'm starting to get mad now that I'm paying a
few dollars to do Sam's job forhim, and he just made 65 bucks.

Exactly.
Well, there you go, you winsome, you lose some, but yeah,
so that was quite a thing.
So, silas, thank you so muchfor that.
He's also sent another coupleof things talking about Visa and
MasterCard.
The internet's money is Visaand MasterCard, which is what I
said last week.
And he says, yes, and the costbenefits of Lightning Network

(59:52):
don't matter that much forbuying a T-shirt.
But the difference, then, isbeing a universal standard.
If everyone had a Lightningaddress, you could just send the
money.
Well, yes, but everybody's gota bank account and you can just
send the money and it'srelatively easy.
So, yeah, so I can kind of seeboth sides on this.
I would much rather that Visa,mastercard or V-Pay or Maestro

(01:00:16):
or whatever credit card you use.
I would just rather thatpayments were cheaper for that.
That would for a small amount.
I think that would make a bunchof sense.
So, silas, thank you so muchfor that.
Thank you also to thenoteworthy 19 of which are power

(01:00:36):
supporters at weeklypodnewsnet,of which, john, you are one of
those.
So thank you so much for that.
Choose another five names fromthat list that you can see in
front of you in very small typeAll right.

John McDermott (01:00:50):
Thank you to Cameron and Marshall and Matt
and Mike and Dave, jackson andRachel.
That's six.
That's six.

James Cridland (01:00:56):
That's brilliant .
So what's happened for you thisweek, John?
What is a normal week in theCalaroga Shark Media tower suite
that you inhabit?

I had a nice productive head-down week of
just doing I call it wateringthe plants.
So tweaked some artwork, wrotesome promos and actually
scheduled them, worked on theeditorial calendar, hit up Apple
for some promotion requests.
I'm always obsessed withgetting ahead as the weather
gets nicer.
I'm a big fan of Beach Friday,so if I could do five days

(01:01:27):
working for I like to do that.
But it's just been a veryproductive week of knocking down
the pins and you know I likethose weeks.
You look at the end of it yougo OK, everything's in good
shape, the plants are watered,the promos are scheduled, the
shows are loaded, we are tryingto promote things.
Just one of those are reallygood weeks.
I do feel guilty, sitting herein Sam's super comfortable chair

(01:01:48):
, that I didn't invent five newthings to add to True Fans, but
that's probably what Sam isdoing.
But whatever Adam talks abouton today's show, we're working
on that.
Yes, yeah, yeah yeah,absolutely no.

he's a good.
He's always working, is Sam,even when he's on holiday
drinking the wine?
And I mean the photographs thathe has been posting on his
personal Facebook.
But the photographs that he'sbeen posting?
I mean every single photographlooks like a chocolate box town

(01:02:23):
in the middle of Europesomewhere.
It looks absolutely fantastic.
So yeah, there's definitely anice holiday that Sam is
currently having, I guess.

Now, how about you?
I know you've been working onyour email, for one thing,
because I kept emailing you tolike 50 different addresses,
because I didn't want to like,blow you off.
But I was like, oh my God, thisis bouncing back.
Are you actually getting this?
And because of the timedifference, I'm like, oh, he's
going to think I'm a crazyperson.
But what are you working on,james?

Yes, I think Gmail has changed something,
which means that I can't forwardemails to Gmail very well
anymore and it's kicking backerrors and stuff like that.
So who knows what's going onthere, but anyway.
So I've moved my email awayfrom Gmail for now, and it's
just not a great experience.
It turns out that Apple Mail,the Apple Mail client on your

(01:03:11):
actual computer, doesn't workvery well and is quite buggy.
Actual computer doesn't workvery well and is quite buggy,
which is a real shame becauseit's not a bad mail app, but,
yes, it is not a good thing interms of all of the bugs in
there.
So what I'm currently doing forthe main Pod News newsletter is
I'm reading all of my emails onmy laptop using Apple Mail and

(01:03:35):
then I'm replying on my laptop,but I have to delete the email
on my phone because it works onmy phone but doesn't work on my
laptop, so it's just the mostunpleasant experience.
Anyway, if you've got a solutionfor email, then I would love to
hear it.
Not Mutt, adam, I don't want touse that, thank you very much.

(01:03:56):
And not Thunderbird, becauseyou know it's 2025.
So if anybody else has got anyideas not Outlook, obviously
then jamesatcridland is mypersonal email and also I've
planned a holiday myself.
I'm going to Darwin.
Oh yeah, I'm looking forward tothat.

(01:04:16):
So Darwin will be well, I wasgoing to say 30 degrees, which
sounds really cold, but no,it'll be really warm, it'll be
in the late 80s, early 90s, andit'll be fantastic up there.
So I'm looking forward to thatin early July.
So I'm going to tell Sam thathe needs to both find a guest

(01:04:38):
and also to edit the showhimself.
So who knows what will happen.
And that's it for this week.
All of our podcast storiestaken from the Pod News Daily
newsletter at podnewsnet.

And you can support the show by streaming
sats.
You can provide feedback usingthe Buzzsprout fan mail link in
the show notes, send a supercomment or become a power
supporter like me.
And you know, sam, you'rewelcome and the rest of the
noteworthy 19 atweeklypodnewsnet.
That's the way I did it.
I found that was the easiestway to do it.

Yes, it is excellent and it works with the
internet's money, which, ofcourse, is Visa and MasterCard.
Our music is from TM Studios,our voiceover is Sheila D, we
edit with Hindenburg and we'rehosted and sponsored by
Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting, thank you.

John, thank you.
Thanks for having me.
Get updated every day.
Subscribe to our newsletter atpodnewsnet.

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Weekly review will return nextweek.
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