Podcasting in the Arab states and in India; plus the two billion US industry

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Gautam Raj Anand (00:00):
The Pod News Weekly Review uses chapters.
Use a modern podcast app toskip through the stories if
you're a lightweight, or listenall the way through like an OG.
It's.

James Cridland (00:09):
Friday, the 25th of April 2025.

Announcer (00:12):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Sethi.

Sam Sethi (00:21):
I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News, and I'm
Sam Sethi, the CEO of True Crime.

Stefano Fallaha (00:26):
So True Crime is actually Sawal Iftarit, so
it's the number one podcast inthe UCC.
But it's not only true crime,it's also a mix of cultural or
personal journals.

Stefano Falaha from Podio on podcasting in the
Arab states.

Gautam Raj Anand (00:40):
Plus Ever since YouTube came into the
market and they think aboutpodcasts as a synonymous word
with interviews.
Plus.

Gautam Rajanand from Hubhopper on Indian
podcasting after YouTube and thetwo billion podcast industry,
odyssey behaving badly andmicropayments from X.
This podcast is sponsored byBuzzsprout With the tools,
support and community to ensureyou keep podcasting, start
podcasting, keep podcasting withbuzzsproutcom.

(01:15):
From your daily newsletter, thePod News Weekly Review.

Sam Sethi (01:20):
James, let's kick the show off then.
Right, do I go?
Boom or do I go?
Oh my God.
Finally, I don't know which wayI feel, but podcasting is now a
$2 billion ad industry in theUSA.
Tell me more, james.

It is.
Yes, we have finally broken $2billion.
I have to say it was a bit of asurprise to me, given that last
year wasn't a fantastic yearfor many people.
Quite a surprise to see asignificant growth for podcast
ad revenue in the US.
It broke $2 billion and in facthas earned $2.4 billion.

(01:56):
According to the IAB andPricewaterhouseCoopers, who have
put together the Internet AdRevenue Report, in total
internet advertising revenue hit$258 billion in 2024.
So you know, podcasting isstill less than a 1% medium, but

(02:17):
still nevertheless pretty goodnews, I think.

Sam Sethi (02:19):
Yeah, it's great news , but how do they measure it?

It's quite an interesting way of doing it.
They actually talk to a ton ofpeople, a ton of ad agencies and
people who are actually buyingpodcast advertising, and asking
them for their numbers.
So it's something that they'vedone for some time, it's not
unusual.
There are a couple of othercompanies who do the same sort

(02:45):
of thing, because obviously, atthe end of the day, everybody
wants to know what everybodyelse is doing anyway.
So, yeah, but that's basicallyhow they've put the numbers.
Now the question, I suppose,from my point of view, is what's
a podcast?
Because obviously that willmake a difference in terms of
what this means for thesenumbers, given that you know

(03:06):
YouTube may well be a proportionof that.
You know how much you know.
Can we claim YouTube, ourpodcasts in here and et cetera,
et cetera.
But still, I mean, it's stillnice to see that we've bashed
through the $2 billion ceiling,which we've been trying to do

(03:26):
for a number of years now.

Sam Sethi (03:28):
Is there a European or worldwide report?
I mean, do they extend thenumbers beyond just the USA?

There are some reports that I have seen from
other countries, but it's alittle bit more difficult to get
that information, you know, ona comparable basis.
So, yeah, I mean it would belovely, wouldn't it, to see what
the global figures are as well.
Is anyone predicting threebillion, particularly for this

(04:00):
year?
Because who knows what's goingto happen, given the economy
right now?
Who knows whether or noteverybody is going to go
gangbusters later on in the yearor if everybody's going to just
pull back and not do any ofthat stuff?

Sam Sethi (04:15):
Would any of this be also a boom based on the back of
a presidential election?

Well, quite a lot of.
You see, the difficulty with apresidential election is
actually quite a lot of peoplepull their money, pull their ad
money, until the election hasactually happened, and so, of
course, the election onlyhappens in mid-November, so that
doesn't necessarily mean a tonmore cash.

(04:43):
Now, what it means for radiobroadcasters is it does mean a
ton more cash because radiobroadcasters normally get quite
a lot of political advertising,not really seeing that for
podcasting.
So yeah, so I'm not sure, to behonest, I'm not sure that the
presidential election actuallyhelped these numbers.
I'm not sure that thepresidential election actually

(05:05):
helped these numbers.
I mean, certainly what we'veseen is that people really
didn't want to pay until afterthey knew who was getting in and
then they can make their plansand everything else.
And that's certainly what mybusiness saw was not very much

(05:26):
spending towards the end of theyear and then all of a sudden,
december, january, februaryquite a lot of money in the
market.
So yeah, so who knows whathappens this year?

Sam Sethi (05:40):
Okay, well, we'll watch this space now.
Moving on, the Spotify PartnerProgram was available in
Australia, canada, the UnitedKingdom and the USA.
It's now grown to nine newcountries.
I thought when I sent you anemail, james, that I was being
really clever.
I found something, only for youto send me a link going no

(06:01):
covered that March 27th I waslike, oh, okay to send me a link
going no covered that March27th.
I was like, oh okay, but it isstill a case that on April, the
29th, they will be rolling outthe programme in Europe.

Yes, and this is good news for two sets of
people actually.
Firstly, it's good news forvideo creators in Germany,
austria, switzerland, france,netherlands, belgium, luxembourg
and Ireland.
All of those places can applyfor the Spotify Partner
Programme and money from theirpodcasts, whether that's in

(06:32):
audio or in video.
So all of that is good news.
But also it's good newsactually for those of us who are
in other countries Australia orCanada or the UK or the US
because until now, you don'tearn money from people in
countries where the SpotifyPartner Programme isn't

(06:55):
available.
So all of a sudden, you willget more cash coming in from the
Spotify premium users in thosecountries as well.
So I think I calculated 43% morepeople.
Now, obviously, different showsare more popular in different
places, but that's a big, that'sa big exciting, you know push,

(07:18):
I think, for potentially earningcash with the Spotify Partner
Program.
Of course, there's a lot ofdiscussion about that right now.
We had Maja Brohovnik on theshow last week and she was
talking about exactly that.
But yeah, it's good news, Ithink, for quite a lot of people
.

Sam Sethi (07:38):
Now, moving on, james X, formerly known as Twitter,
made an announcement.
Now, this is not directlyrelated to podcasting, but I
thought it was worth you and Idiscussing it, because they are
adding wallet support andmicropayments.
Now, I've long said that when Iwas at Netscape, it was not

(07:58):
Netscape that made the web, butit was Microsoft, and most
people were surprised.
Yes, netscape was a scrappystartup with the browser, but
actually Microsoft, putting itinto the operating system and
making it one-click access forthe mainstream, was what made
the web take off.
And I've long said that onecompany larger than you know,
the podcasting 2.0 apps, if theyadopt the wallet mechanism and

(08:23):
also support micropayments andtake it to the mainstream, will
help us all in the podcastingworld, and I think, sadly, it's
x and not another company.
But again, uh, this is theannouncement from linda
iaccarino, the so-called ceo,and again, nobody knows is she
the ceo of xai or X?

(08:44):
Anyway, that's another question, but this is exciting news.
I haven't got any more detailsother than Visa are behind it
and they are going to allow youto connect to your debit card
and it is peer-to-peer payments.
So any thoughts?

Yeah, I mean.
I suppose the question is, doesthis?
I don't see the wordmicropayment in her announcement
.
So, yes, there are ways ofpaying, ways of paying people
through the X money account,whatever that is.
See anything aroundmicropayments, because I mean,

(09:29):
yes, that would be brilliant ifthere was ways of making
micropayments to other people,then that significantly helps
and, by the way, there is anopen API for it.
That significantly helps.
Where we are in the podcastingworld, I don't see that quite
yet and I guess from Visa'spoint of view, well, where's
Visa going to make the money?
Visa's going to make the moneyfrom people loading their

(09:51):
wallets, I suppose.
Are Visa expecting to makemoney from each individual
transaction?
Because if they are, thenclearly that's not going to work
from a micropayment point ofview.

Sam Sethi (10:03):
I'm suspecting that it's the same way that I use
Stripe, where you do a transferof fiat currency into SATs, so
you load up your wallet and thenfrom your wallet, you make
those transactions and then youcan withdraw from your wallet or
you can top up your walletagain via Visa.

I think they're the backbone not the
transactional element.
Yeah, so that's Stripe with a K, of course.

Sam Sethi (10:29):
No Stripe with a P.

Stripe with a P.

Sam Sethi (10:33):
Yes, not with a K.
Are you sure I'm using Stripewith a?
P as my backbone, not Stripewith a K as a wallet.

Yes, oh, I didn't realise that Stripe did
Bitcoin.
Have I been?
Have I been fast asleep withthat one?
How bizarre.
I have never spotted thatbefore.
Well, there we are.
You learn a new thing every day.
Well, there you go, so, yeah,well, yeah, so if if that's the

(11:04):
case, then great.
Of course they won't be usingBitcoin or anything.
They'll be using X money,whatever X money is, doge, doge
coin.
I think is what I worry about.
Well, yes, exactly yes, it'llbe some weird thing that they
end up using, but no,interesting.
I mean, obviously, a lot ofthings need to need to line up

(11:28):
in order for this to work forall of us.
We need an open API.
X needs to make money somehowout of this, I suppose, and you
know, etc.
Etc.
Etc.
But you know, it's interestingto end up seeing that you also
mentioned that x have launched amerch store.
Yeah and um, that merch store,which is called x drop 2 for

(11:50):
some reason, um, that will allowusers to buy merch using micro
payments from their wallet theywill allow them to use their
wallet to make the payments.

Sam Sethi (11:59):
So I am assuming they're micro.
Okay, we haven't got the detailyet, but I'm assuming that it's
micro payments.
Otherwise it would be just aVisa card and that would be just
nothing exciting on you.

Yes, indeed, indeed, Although of course,
that's what Apple and Googlehave both done.
They've both essentially justput their name in front of a
Visa or a MasterCard.
But yeah, interesting to seewhat happens there with the ever
reliable Elon.

Sam Sethi (12:31):
Musk.
Now moving on, you had a storythis week I'm just going to call
it Odyssey behaving badly.
Tell me more.

Yes, although the suggestion of anything
improper is absurd.
Suggestion of anything improperis absurd.
So once upon a time there was acompany called Podcorn, and
Podcorn was a way of earningmoney from your podcast.

(13:00):
You tied it into Podcorn.
Podcorn measured how popularyour podcast was and Podcorn
also sold.
I think they sold host reads onyour podcast if it was big
enough.
So that's what Podcorn would do.
Podcorn is now called OdysseyCreator Lab, but back in the

(13:22):
days when it was still calledPodcorn, a number of podcast
hosting companies didpartnerships with Podcorn to
basically say here are all ofour users.
All of our users want to makemoney from their podcast.
So here's a quick button thatwill enable them to take part in
Podcorn, which of makes a tonof sense.

(13:45):
The difficulty now is thatOdyssey's Creator Lab has
launched, which is Podcorn.
But what Odyssey have also doneis they've launched a free
podcast hosting company.
So hooray for them.
But of course, one of the firstthings they did is they
marketed through email to all oftheir customers Hello, we are

(14:08):
now called Odyssey Creator Laband you should be hosting with
us as well now.
So basically, if you're one ofthe large podcast companies who
did a deal with Podcorn.
What you've basically done isyou've handed all of your
customers' email addresses andeverything else to Odyssey, who
are now promoting their own freepodcast platform.

(14:33):
So a bit of an oops from allconcerned.
Really, I think it's pretty badbehaviour on Odyssey's part.
Odyssey clearly don't seeanything wrong on Odyssey's part
.
Odyssey clearly don't seeanything wrong.
Odyssey's spokesperson told mesome guff about being excited to
be expanding our offerings.
Blah, blah, blah, blah blah.

(14:53):
The suggestion of anythingimproper is absurd.
Well, I think if you are all ofa sudden mailing all of the
customers that you were givenfrom podcast hosting companies
and saying, all right, screwthose podcast hosting companies,
come and join ours, we're free,is a bit improper, to be honest
.
But that's where they haveended up being.

(15:16):
But I do know a number ofdifferent hosting companies who
are quite annoyed at it, shallwe say who are quite annoyed at
it, shall we say.

Sam Sethi (15:26):
Yeah well, kelly Turner is the president and
chief executive officer forOdyssey.
Maybe I should ping her and seeif she'd want to come on the
show.

Yeah, I mean maybe, although I would be
surprised if she knew whatOdyssey Creator Lab was.
I think she's way, way, way upin the stratosphere.
Oh really, in terms of thatsort of thing, yes, I would have
thought so, oh okay, sorry.
Yes, but yeah, I mean, you know,who knows whether or not
Odyssey particularly cares, butit does look, to me at least, as

(15:54):
if they've been stiffing thepodcast hosting companies who
gave them a ton of customers.
So it's a weird one actuallyPodcorn, because you might
remember that we've occasionallycarried stories basically
saying are they still going?
Are they still actuallyexisting?
Because it was very, very quietfrom them for quite some time

(16:16):
and that probably explains whybecause they were busy
rebranding themselves.

Sam Sethi (16:21):
Well, they also had massive layoffs as well, so that
was the other thing that wesort of highlighted.

Anyway, there's.
Odyssey for you.
There's Odyssey for you and, bythe way, now that Odyssey is out
of bankruptcy and I'm notsaying that Cumulus is going
into bankruptcy but one of thethings that has just been
announced is that Cumulus Mediais coming off Nasdaq because it
can't keep its shares to above$1.

(16:47):
And so Cumulus has basicallygone.
Yeah, you know what?
Rather than investing time,effort and cost into keeping on
the NASDAQ, we're just comingoff.
So that's what's happening forCumulus, which, of course, is a
competitor to Odyssey.
So it's all going on in the US,isn't it?

Sam Sethi (17:06):
Now whizzing around the world and talking about the
US.
At least, that's what it'scalled.
This week, the Netflix earningscall had talks about video
podcasts, James.
What were they talking about?

Yes, but only a little bit.
This is the clip.
The next question is from Matt.

Sam Sethi (17:22):
Thornton of FBN Securities.
Do you think video podcastscould perform well as a?

category on Netflix.

Ted Sarandos (17:30):
So we're constantly looking at all
different types of content andcontent creators.
The lines between podcast andtalk shows are getting pretty
blurry.
We want to work with kind ofgreat creators across all kinds
of media that consumers love,and podcasts, to your point,
have become a lot more videoforward and today we actually
produce a lot of podcastsourselves, part of our kind of

(17:50):
publicity and publishing efforts.
So some are really showspecific, like Squid Game and
Diplomat.
Some are genre focused.
Some are talent focused.
We have a great one called youCan't Make this Up all about
Netflix docs and they liveeverywhere.
Podcasts live today, but as thepopularity of video podcasts
grow, I suspect you'll see someof them find their way to
Netflix.

Well, there we are.
That's about as much as we knowabout Netflix's plan for
podcasts.
My suspicion, I have to say, isthere's two sort of sides of it
.
One side is, netflix is makingpodcasts and they want the world
to know about the fact thatthey're making podcasts, which
is why they sponsored Evolutions, which is why they're a sponsor

(18:32):
at the podcast show in London.
And on the other side, netflixwould quite like some cheap
video programming.
And who's got that?
Well, it's the video podcasters.
So, you could argue, would itmake sense for Netflix just to
make it really easy to submit avideo show onto Netflix as well?

(18:54):
Well, why not?
I mean, it's free content forthem, in the same way that
YouTube gets all of this freecontent as well.
So perhaps it's a plan, I don'tknow.

Sam Sethi (19:03):
Well, given that some of the reports that we've had
from Edison research about howpeople are using YouTube on
large TV screens as a means ofconsumption, it would make sense
for Netflix to do the same, toget the similar content so that
they can keep the platform appsticky.
You're watching a film, youswitch over to a TV show.
Oh look, I'm bored of both ofthose.

(19:24):
Oh, I'll just watch a videopodcast.

Yes, and that may well be the case, may well
be what they've got planned.
So, yes, so that is going on inthe US.
Also going on in the US, oursponsor Buzzsprout.

Sam Sethi (19:39):
Go on, james.
Are you saying Go on?
No, I was going to say I don'tuse it Subreddit.
So I was going to say what thehell is a subreddit?
Because I don't go on Reddit.

Oh, you don't go on Reddit.
A subreddit is just a forum.
On Reddit it's just a group.
But yes, there is one there forBuzzsprout.
I have tried to be in a few ofthe podcasting subreddits in
Reddit itself.
It's an interesting place.
The moderators have someinteresting ideas.

(20:12):
But knowing the success of theBuzzsprout Facebook group, I
suspect that this might be quitegood for anybody that wants to
post on there.
You don't have to be aBuzzsprout customer to post in
there, so it's worthwhile takinga peek at.
You'll find it just bysearching for Buzzsprout in

(20:34):
Reddit.

Sam Sethi (20:35):
Whizzing back here to the UK, your favourite people,
the BBC.
They're partnered with a globalaudio marketplace.
Audacia, audacia, is that howyou say it?

Yeah, it's Audacia, I believe, although I
was a bit confused.
Kim from Audacia or Audacia?
It's very difficult to knowquite whether it's Audacia or
Audacia.
Anyway, they are.
They've been both based inSingapore and in Australia and

(21:08):
they are looking after BBCpodcasts in Asia.
So places like Singapore,malaysia, indonesia, the
Philippines, thailand, southKorea and Vietnam.
So that's quite a nice get forAudacia.
So congratulations to them, Iguess.

Sam Sethi (21:23):
Now this one.
I don't understand Evan.
Evan Davis, a BBC radiopresenter, has been asked by the
BBC to stop hosting the HappyHeat Pump podcast.
It seems very innocuous to stophim doing that.

It does, doesn't it?
It's the Happy Heat Pumppodcast, but there is a good
reason for that, and here's EvanDavis.

Sam Sethi (21:42):
I'm a BBC employee.
I take their shilling.

They dictate the rules.

Sam Sethi (21:47):
They know they have to try and keep their presenters
out of areas of publiccontroversy and they have
decided Heat pumps can becontroversial.

So they've asked me not to be involved.
Yes, heat pumps are apparentlycontroversial, right?
So, yes, that's probably thething I mean.
To be fair, firstly, he's aflagship presenter of the news.
So Evan Davis is one of thosepeople that you have to be

(22:16):
pretty careful.
What he's getting involved inhe presents at PM, which is the
big afternoon news show on BBCRadio 4.
So you've got that reallyneeding to be as impartial as
you possibly can.
He's doing this Happy Heat Pumppodcast with a co-host who is a

(22:37):
lobby group employee for heatpumps.
So that's yeah.
So that's a thing.
It turns out that the UKgovernment is requiring
new-build homes in the UK to fittechnology like heat pumps, but
other technology options areavailable, and so obviously
you've got this lobby groupperson saying it's heat pumps or

(23:01):
nothing, and heat pumps arebrilliant.
And the podcast I listened toyou know an episode or two and
you know this guy who'samazingly called Bean Beanland,
bean Beanland, who is thecuriously named Director of

(23:22):
Growth and External Affairs forthe Heat Pump Federation.
He does say some, you know,criticism of the government and
all that kind of stuff, and EvanDavis doesn't really push back
very, very much.
So, yeah, I think it's one ofthose difficult things.
But unfortunately that meansthat Evan has been told that he
can't really continue doing thisparticular show, has been told

(23:47):
that he can't really continuedoing this particular show.
Cue lots of excited people allsaying it's BBC censorship gone
mad.
And all of that because, youknow, heat pumps are for some
reason really controversial inthe UK.
Can't think why, but that'sbasically where that's happened.
It should be pointed out thatEvan Davis earns £290,000 to

(24:09):
present that show, pm, on Radio4.
That's US$390,000.
Den, which is the UK equivalentof Shark Tank.
So he's on quite a nice watch.
He doesn't necessarily need itfor the money, but perhaps he

(24:30):
did it because it was quite afun thing to be involved in.
But he's been told to stop.

Sam Sethi (24:36):
I highly recommend, if you can find it, listen to
Gary Lineker's exit interviewwith Amal Rajan about why he's
leaving the BBC.
Exit interview with Amal Rajanabout why he's leaving the BBC.
The impartiality element isdealt with very nicely by Gary
Lineker there.

Yes, well, there's the impartiality side,
but there's also the creative,and I think Evan Davis used an
interesting phrase.
He said you know that they'vebeen, you know the BBC have been
very helpful and blah, blah,blah.
And he says they're very unkeento stop me doing things that I

(25:12):
find rewarding.
And I think actually, yeah, youknow there is a certain amount
if you're a creative person, youwant to do rewarding things,
and he found this funny littlepodcast to be quite a rewarding
thing to do, but of course, thatall of a sudden gets into
trouble with you know, allmanner of exciting issues.

(25:33):
So, yeah, so you can kind ofsee his point really, but yeah,
it's an interesting place.

Sam Sethi (25:41):
Interesting place Moving on Middle East and Africa
.
Podio is a Dubai-based companythat recently announced the
completion of 5.4 million offunding.
Congratulations to them.
Their CEO, Stefano, talks abouttheir plans to invest in their
global expansion and grow theirAI capabilities, and I was

(26:03):
interested to find out moreabout what they were going to do
.
He also discusses two excitingnew announcements, James, so I
thought let's kick off.
I started off by asking Stefanowho or what is Podio?

Podio.
We started a couple of yearsback with the aim of amplifying
the region's voices, because wealways felt that the Middle East
and North Africa region, andspecifically the Arabic culture,
is always lacked in terms ofglobal visibility on a global
media scale, and so we alwayswanted to sort of crack that
medium and help people withstories get their stories out
there.
And podcasting, as we both know, it is one of the most powerful

(26:44):
ways to get our stories and ourvoices heard.
And so we started by looking atthe different challenges in the
market.
Obviously, first challenge wassupply, which is the content
creator part dived into what canwe do to help creators sort of
simplify their process to create?
So we localized the end-to-endtools for recording production,

(27:07):
post-production, distributionand monetization.
And so, if we look at thenumbers, before we entered the
market we were probably at lessthan 2,000 podcasts in Arabic
across the entire Middle Eastand North Africa.
And the way we tried andstarted going after that market
was looking at the realchallenges and really the gaps

(27:27):
in that market, and we startedbuilding tools that very
localized tools as well, to helpcreators get their podcasts up
and running, and that number hasskyrocketed to tens of
thousands of creators over thelast couple of years.
So that's something that wekeep on doubling down on,
because we believe that this isjust the start of the journey of

(27:49):
amplifying voices out of theMENA region.
And so, if we look at thedifferent gaps, supply was a gap
, demand was also another gap,and then, obviously,
monetization and revenue is alsothe third gap, and so we look
at it as a trifecta that keepson continuously improving itself
, and the beauty in the model orthe and so we look at it as a
trifecta that keeps oncontinuously improving itself,
and the beauty in the model orthe platform that we built was
that they all feed into eachother.

(28:10):
So, really, network effectshave a big play or a big role in
scaling organically a market,specifically when we localize
the entire platform to be veryculturally relevant, the entire
platform to be very culturallyrelevant.
So a bit of context as well onthe region.
So the region is one language,which is Arabic, but really

(28:31):
divided into sub dialects, andso you have probably more than
20 different dialects acrossdifferent countries, and so it's
as if we're operating in 20different markets, because Saudi
creators don't listen to thesame content as Egypt audiences.
And then the UAE is also a verycosmopolitan country, so you

(28:52):
also have these differentdialectical changes that we need
to adapt to.
You also have the differentdialects that we need to
localize for, and so the keycomponents or the key areas
we're really optimized for washyperlocality when it comes to
the product, but also when itcomes to the content, and making
sure that once the supply is upand ready, then the demand is

(29:15):
also localized to the differentchannels, and so obviously we do
distribute and creatorsobviously come in the platform
upload or record.
One click reaches all theplatforms.
So Apple, spotify, all thetypical streaming apps, but also
we went above and beyond thatand started plugging in with
channels where consumerstypically listen on, and in this

(29:36):
region, radio was predominantlythe main platform where people
consumed audio content.
So that was one area where westarted plugging in.
These integrations helpedcreators maximize their reach,
but also improved the content,or the curated content on these
off-peak hours.
Another side of the story aswell is we started looking at
channels where we can integrateaudio on the go and help

(30:00):
commuters specifically consumepodcasts.
So we plugged in with the RTA,which is the Road and
Transportation Authority inDubai, which operates Hala Taxis
, and so we partnered with theOEM, which is Binary Media, and
creators just upload ordistribute the same way,
distribute on audio platforms.
They could also reach all theseavenues that we have integrated

(30:23):
and implemented directly intothe platform.
And so, from a macroperspective, if you look at it,
we became sort of thatinfrastructure or the pipes of
the industry, helping creatorssimplify their production,
maximize their reach andmonetize through different
avenues which I believe we'llget into in a bit.

Sam Sethi (30:41):
Well, let's get to it now.
What is the monetizationstrategy?
So, is it traditional DAI?
Is it host-read?
Is it other forms ofmonetization?
Tell me more.

So they are the typical forms of monetization
so programmatic, directsponsorship, host-read, branded
or white label production, soreally not very different than
the typical monetization schemes.
Also, something that we'redefinitely getting into and is
tipping and donation and gifting, so really similarities with

(31:13):
the different social platformsthat are available, which I
believe is something that, sam,you know with TrueFans, you're
also an expert at and it'sdefinitely something where you
see value.
So that is, we're always goingto help creators maximize their
revenue, from maximizing fillrates to simplifying the brand
or the agency connections withthe creators through a

(31:35):
marketplace or even through thecreator economy or Patreon model
.
That is also applicable to anyform of content.
If we also look at podcasting,we always say it's one of the
most engaging, intimate medium,but reality is the engagement
between the creators and thelisteners is still not there.
It's not on par with the claimat which the industry or which

(31:55):
reality of how consumptionhappens, and so that's something
where we see is a bigopportunity and something to
double down on which really getsus excited, because that's
really part of the trifectathat's just going to
continuously get better andbetter over time.

Sam Sethi (32:09):
So in the front end is there a Podio app that people
are downloading as well.
Because I think when I look atwhat you're doing, I look at
Podimo out of Denmark and I seeso many similarities because
they've created their own app,they've created their own
content and, again, maybe that'ssomething you might look to in
the future as well.

(32:30):
They've raised a ton of moneyand they are looking at creating
regional studios for content.
So their strategy is exclusiveon-platform subscription, less
in the advertising play and thenfreemium out to the end points,
maybe a week or two weeks laterwith advertising supported to

(32:53):
raise revenue around that.
So do you see that Podio willeventually get into creating and
being a creator platform notjust helping the creator, but
actually creating your owncontent?

So that's a very good question, sam.
Our core ethos is we are notproducers and we are not a
production house.
We are an independent,sovereign tech podcast platform,
and that means that we do notget into the production of
podcasts.
We get into the enablement ofcreators or podcasters.
We do have our own Podio app,which is one channel at which we

(33:32):
distribute the podcast to, butwe are distribution first and
not destination, and so thatmeans that we do not care to
consolidate audiences in oneplace.
The same way, spotify wants toconsolidate podcast audiences by
doing all these exclusive dealsor Podimo consolidating as well
, or acquiring pieces of contentto put them on the Podimo app

(33:55):
right.
Each one has its own strategy.
What we've seen, according toour experience and very
localized experience in themarket, that is something that
is not only challenging to do,but comparables with music, for
instance, where people typicallypay for music in the region.
This is a region where peopletend to not pay for content in

(34:17):
general.
That behavior is changing withthe likes of Shahid, which is
the number one streaming VODplatform in the region, and I
believe that the alternative tothat is always going to be
giving the opportunity for theaudience to decide for
themselves.
Here's a great piece of contentI want to donate or I want to

(34:37):
support it.
I can support it, but itdoesn't mean I'm going to get a
paywall or I'm going to get awalled content, even for some
duration.
And that also goes to reinforceour mission as a platform which
is continuously helping creatorsget more audiences, bigger
reach and more revenue.
And the beauty in our businessmodel is that it is aligned with

(35:00):
more reach, because the more wehelp creators maximize their
reach through radios, taxis,airlines, different integrations
that we've done the more wehelp them monetize, the more
everyone makes money.
And so I believe that is acontinuously reinforcing the
open podcast ecosystem andcontinuously really going after
what creators want, which ismore reach and more money.

(35:20):
And so that is what Podioreally stands for, and we did
start out of the MENA region,but we have and we've already
started our global expansion.

Sam Sethi (35:30):
Nice.
Now, one of the other thingsthat to mind is the Indian
market.
When I interviewed GautamRajanand, with local dialects
and with local platforms weredominating the market space.
So you had Ghana and a fewother platforms, but then along

(35:51):
came Spotify, then along cameYouTube, then along came Amazon
and they seem to be dominatingas the platforms of distribution
endpoint consumption.
So within the MENA region, doyou have a footprint of Spotify,
apple and YouTube yet, or is itlocal content points that are

(36:13):
dominating now?
And if they are, do you seethem remaining as a dominant
player?

So the region is pretty much diversified in
terms of consumption.
So Apple podcast is stillpredominantly the consumption
platform on the audio side.
On the video side it is YouTube, and when it comes to more
localized play, I mean, thePodio app has significant
footprint on the demand side aswell.
But it also acts as a companionapp for creators, and so

(36:38):
creators can also record on thego what they do is.
They just open up their phone,they send the link to their
friend or their guest.
We could have both done thatinterview on the Podio app, for
instance, and from the Podio appyou could either click and
distribute everywhere or youcould become a listener, and so
from that point it acts on bothsupply and demand, which

(36:58):
creators and listeners reallysee value in because they're
building on their owncommunities.
But again, to us it is anotherchannel that is really growing
organically because it is a verylocalized podcast app to listen
to.

Sam Sethi (37:14):
But we do not want to consolidate audiences on that
app just because our corebusiness model scales as we help
creators get more reach now,given that localization of
language is one of the criticalpillars of what you're doing, do
you think you will supportsomething like the alternative

(37:34):
enclosure and languagetranslation?
So one of the things I thinkthe podcast world needs to do.
I, mr Beast, recently said iton another podcast 15% of the
world speaks English, the restof the world doesn't, and he's
very keen on getting languagetranslation and audio dubbing
into his videos because he getsthe extended reach that he wants

(37:58):
.
So if you want to extend thereach of the Arabic stories, are
you going to extend that totranslating them into English so
that dumb people like me canlisten to them, because I don't
speak Arabic?

Definitely.
That is all integrated into thePodio Creator product, which is
our web app, and so we haveadd-ons as well, where you can
click or add to cart, either dubthe podcast or your episode to
a different language.
And now we're getting into thelocalized dialects and so if
you're a creator from SaudiArabia and your audience is

(38:35):
predominantly in Saudi Arabia,but you also want to unlock the
Egyptian market and the Lebanesemarket and the Jordanian market
, then you would be able to dubyour entire podcast within the
different localized sub-Arabicdialects.
Obviously, that gives us a bigadvantage because reality is,
90% plus of the supplier ofpodcasts in Arabic are hosted

(38:56):
and distributed through Podio,which means that the amount of
localization and inputs thatwe're generating really help
creators get these localizedversions of their main Arabic
podcast to tap into thesub-dialects.
And that also means that, let'ssay, creators or podcasters in
markets that have lower CPMs inthe region can localize or dub

(39:21):
their piece of content and getit into a higher CPM market like
Saudi Arabia or the UAE orQatar, and that also helps them
unlock higher CPMs from aprogrammatic perspective or even
from a direct sponsorship,post-read perspective with the
same piece of content.
So definitely that is allstreamlined as well through our

(39:42):
web app in the form of add-ons,so usage-based add-ons.

Sam Sethi (39:46):
Okay, and who's the number one podcaster in the
region?
Please don't tell me it's JoeRogan.
Please tell me.
No Good, thank God Right, so isit local language creators.

It is a Saudi creator.
His name is.
It's called Sawalif Tariq.
He's a big YouTuber as well, sothis is where you see the merge
between audience growth onYouTube, and that consequently
means he's the number onepodcast across every single top
chart, mainly in the GCC area.
So it is not Joe Rogan.

Sam Sethi (40:18):
Good.
And in terms of the contentcategories then, what are the
dominant content categories?
I mean, is it crime, thriller,comedy, religion, a sport
technology?
What's dominating the listeningbehavior out there?

So true crime is actually Sawal of Tariq, so
he's the number one podcast inthe DCC, but it's not only true
crime, it's also a mix ofcultural or personal journals.
So this is where the twocategories really come together.
The next one in line is, Ibelieve, a business podcast, so
that is more related tointerviews and technology and

(40:57):
then comedy, naturally, so thesealways shuffle between the top
10.
It is a very diversified marketas well, so there's not one or
two podcasts that you knowcontinuously challenge each
other.
It's really more of okay.
Here's a creator that we know.
What we're also noticing isthat creators tend to want to

(41:20):
expand their scope of categories.
So there comes at the timewhere we had one creator where
they were doing only sportsinterviews with, specifically,
basketball interviews withbasketball players, and then
they got to a point where theystarted expanding to different
sports.
So they started looking atsoccer, they started looking at

(41:42):
different athletes in general,and that is common in the region
.
I'm not sure if you've seenthat Sam in your markets.

Sam Sethi (41:49):
Yeah, I think brand extension is coming out.
I mean, people are looking attrying to widen their reach.
So yeah, I can imagine Ihaven't looked at it
specifically but yeah, I thinkthat would be a natural
extension.
Yeah, so, given that you've gotthe platform, you've got the
regional language support andyou've got the monetization,

(42:10):
which is the critical part, yousuccessfully raised 5.4 million
dollars last year.
Congratulations by the.
I know how hard that is, sowhat are you going to do with
all the money?

So, yeah, definitely it was a challenging,
obviously, time to raise.
So it was last year as well.
We started pre-AI hype, so thatwas even more challenging and
also, if you look at theregional market, we're also not
in very high liquidity marketwhen it comes to fundraising.
But for us, we were able toraise that money because we

(42:45):
proved that our ecosystem makessense at scale and we proved the
model in relatively one of themost complex languages when it
comes to dialects and when itcomes to markets and so proving
that entire ecosystem model witha blueprint or playbook to
replicate across differentglobal languages.

(43:05):
So you've mentioned 15% English.
Then we're looking at the 85%when it comes to global
languages and we are definitelyglobalizing that product across
the top 10 languages in theworld.
And that is just to reinforceour mission, which is looking at
the stories and the voices fromthese underrepresented markets

(43:30):
or underrepresented or repressedstories and voices across the
world and help them reach largerand global audiences.
And so there's really a lot ofcross distribution that's
happening.
The more we can improve thelocalization, the more we help
these creators reach largeraudiences.
The fund it was led by OraseaCapital, based out of the UAE.

(43:52):
We have participation fromIptikar Fund, which is a
Palestinian fund.
We have participation as wellfrom Cedar Mundi Ventures, from
Razor Capital, which are basedout of the UK, and repeat
investors, and we also have abig roster of media execs based
out of the US, based out ofEurope, that really believe that

(44:14):
we're looking at a massivemarket and the potential for the
time that's going tocontinuously grow with time is
just, you know, insurmountablein terms of potential for the
content world, creators andcreators becoming content
companies, as opposed to sourcesor main media, mainstream

(44:41):
sources that are disseminatinginformation the way they used to
disseminate information, and sothat is also where the biggest
opportunity is, in my opinion,is transforming or enabling
podcasters to maximize theirofferings in terms of reach, but
also in terms of monetization,and this is where lots of
cross-collaboration in theindustry need to happen.

(45:02):
I'm really, really confidentand optimistic about the podcast
industry in general and wherewe're heading, and I believe
that, as Podio, we're reallybuilding that infrastructure or
ecosystem.
And these lesser looked atmarkets because obviously
they're not profitable marketsat the beginning.
You're not looking at high CPMmarkets.

(45:24):
You're looking at markets thatdon't have supply, that don't
have demand, and reality is wehave that blueprint and playbook
to go into a market scalesupply, scale demand, make that
market profitable, rinse andrepeat, really doubling down on
the mission that we initiallyhad.

Sam Sethi (45:38):
Now let's touch on the two topics I really don't
want to touch on, but I knowwe're going to get asked.
So the first one is video andwhere is your heart and mind
with relation to video anddistributing to YouTube?

Yeah, so that's the topic of the industry over
the last couple of months.
Reality is at the core.
Podcasts were always an audiofirst medium.
I think where that is headingis video is predominantly
winning in terms of reach.
Reality is youtube has probablyor on the verge of cracking

(46:17):
that discoverability medium thatpodcast apps couldn't figure
out.
What I'm fearing is that thepodcast has a community, and
that is when you went to listento a podcast and you were
following or, part of that,subscribing to a community.
The way podcasts are beingdiscovered on YouTube today are

(46:40):
typically through algorithms,which, in a way, is
counterintuitive to the coreoffering of the medium, which is
community first.
What we've seen, on the otherhand, is that lots of audiences
are discovering the piece ofcontent on YouTube or on other
channels, but they're not goingto watch that 40, 50 minute

(47:01):
episode.
They're going to go and lookfor that podcast and subscribe
to it and listen to it on one ofthe audio platforms.
And so what we're building aswell is sort of a mechanism to
help that transition, thattransition from discovering the
piece of content on one of thesechannels and converting to
listen to it on an on-demandpodcast app, and that, in a way,

(47:22):
is something that we've beenrelatively successful in doing,
because, when we look at ourdifferent distribution channels
on radios, on airlines, ongaming apps, on taxis we want to
help creators, help get themdiscovered and really convert
the audience that discoveredthat show to follow or subscribe

(47:43):
to that podcast, and so we'veseen it work.
So I don't see it not working,even in the case of YouTube or
even in the case of video.
So that is where, personally, Ithink the industry is going to
move forward.
Video is going to have a bigrole in discoverability, but not
in consumption as a whole, andI also think it's generally a

(48:07):
good thing to uplift that entirepodcast industry.
I'm optimistic about the waythe industry is moving forward
and I don't see it as a threat.
I see it as a compliment or anamplifier to the medium itself.

Sam Sethi (48:23):
Now, you said it right at the beginning of the
interview about radio being amajor distribution network, and
one of my personal focuses in2025 is around live podcasting.
I think that's a massiveopportunity.
I think when you think of radioand live radio, it's the

(48:45):
distribution over the network.
Now, a podcast that is livedistributed over a podcast app
or through the live item tag isequally, in some people's mind,
just radio, because it's justthat consumption in the
immediacy.
Are you planning to supportsomething like the live item tag

(49:08):
?
Are you planning to supportlive capabilities for
broadcasting of your contentcreators?

Definitely, sam .
We stand for wherever andhowever creators can get
discovered and generate morerevenue.
And if the live aspect is goingto help with that and could be
with the tipping, could be withthe gifting, then this is
definitely what we stand for andwhat we're going to do.
So the way we look at it is webelieve in on demand audio first

(49:36):
, but that doesn't mean we'renot going to support live audio
or video in general, justbecause it will help creators
get their word out there.
So this is our North Star andthe how we're going to have to
navigate according to trends,according to how consumers are
behaving, how consumers areconsuming, and we're just going

(49:58):
to be committed to that NorthStar.
And whatever route or whicheverroute we're going to have to
amend or adapt or even optimizefor, then we stand for that
Because to us, just creators areour North Star and we're going
to help them reach and we'regoing to help them with
monetization.

Sam Sethi (50:16):
Okay, we've kept it to last.
You have some exciting news.
Tell me more.

So some exciting news always related to
these two metrics, these twoNorth Stars.
So we have signed with SMC,which is Saudi Media Company,
which is the largest ad rep inthe GCC the largest ad rep in

(50:43):
the GCC.
So that is really exciting forus because that's a new chapter
in terms of maximizingmonetization when it comes to
brands and agencies, connectingthem with the relevant creators,
so programmatic sponsorship andcreator economy in general.
So that's something that we'resuper excited for and really
kicking off that as of thismonth and it's all about forming

(51:03):
these partnerships tocontinuously reinforce our core
North Stars.
And we also have our newestjoiner to the team, wee Fen
Thang, who joins us from TikTok.
Previously she was with Spotifyand previously was with Google,
so sales manager for the threecompanies, and she's a really

(51:24):
big believer as well inpodcasting.
And she joins us on this newchapter as well this month to
again double down on our NorthStars.

Sam Sethi (51:33):
Congratulations.
I'm really excited for you.
That's two big news storiesthere.
Now, with all of this in mind,with the new hire, with the new
advertising partnerships thatyou've got, I assume you'll be
raising more funding.
The overall goal then.
Where do you see yourselves ina year's time, if you can
extrapolate that out?

Sure.
So we see ourselves at aposition where we really optim
optimized for the Middle Eastand North Africa market and
really maximized the potentialwhen it comes to educating
brands and agencies on theimportance of podcasting, the
high ROIs and ROAS that podcastadvertising has.
And the beauty is that there isbig appetite from big agencies

(52:16):
to really get into the medium,because the medium has really
proved over and over again thatit is a medium that has high
retention, high engagement andhigh ROAS and it's on us as a
platform and as an ecosystem orlarger community of creators to
make sure that that message isheard and budgets are maximized

(52:38):
towards podcasting.
So that is the roadmap,obviously for the next year and
obviously doubling down on allthe different languages that we
mentioned and help justcontinuously optimize for our
mission and just amplify morevoices from different languages
and stay true to our vision.
And stay true to our vision,stay true to our ability to

(53:03):
maximize and amplify the reachof creators and add in more
distribution channels as well.
So partnering with morepartners, distribution partners
and channels to help creatorsmaximize their discoverability
and obviously help them convertthese newly acquired audiences
into their own community ofaudiences and listeners.

Sam Sethi (53:22):
Nice Look.
Congratulations, stefano.
It's been a joy to watch yourgrowth and your journey.
I look forward to it.
Are you going to be coming tothe London podcast show?

I am hoping to.
It's just that schedule mightinterfere with something that or
a previous commitment that Ihave in the region, but I'll
hope to catch you there the lastthing if someone wants to go
and learn more about podio,wants to use it, where would
they go?
podioco, that's all.
If they're creator or listeneror an advertiser, they'll find
everything on our platform, onour web app or, if you want to

(53:55):
sort of also explore, creatingtools on the go or listen to,
obviously, the global library ofpodcasts and more localized or
regional shows, and there's alsothe Podio app that they can
download and listen on.

Sam Sethi (54:08):
I just had one last question that went through my
head, I'm sorry, one about thediaspora, because clearly there
is a massive Arabic diasporathat exists.
Are you finding that thatdiaspora is also coming to Podio
?
As a customer?

So the fourth market in terms of demand for us
is actually the US, which isall Arab expats that strive to
listen to localized stories, andso what we're sort of dubbed as
as well in that diasporiccommunity is that Podio is a
cultural bridge.
It's a cultural bridge betweenthe region and between the
expats that are sort of silencedor left out from what's

(54:47):
happening on ground, from thestories that are happening on
ground, and so that is something, as well, that we really sort
of are proud of, and that'ssomething that is going to be
the core aspect of what is goingto bring these global audiences
together.
Today, we're the culturalbridge for Arab expats.
Tomorrow, we're the culturalbridge for the top 10 languages

(55:08):
that we're adding to theplatform.

Sam Sethi (55:09):
Nice, stefano, great to meet you, great to talk to
you.
Thank you so much.
Speak to you soon, my friend.

Announcer (55:14):
The Pod News Weekly Review with Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.

Stefano from Podio in Dubai.
I last saw him at the end oflast year.
Good to hear that he's madesome good announcements there.
Talking about announcements,you've got some more, haven't
you here?

Sam Sethi (55:36):
Yeah, flight Story.
Stephen Bartlett's company hasmade, they say, a critical hire.
Somebody called Leon Farrell,who's joining them.
He was at Warner Music Groupand he drove revenue for Dua
Lipa, muse, ed Sheeran and manymore.
It's interesting that it's amusic hire.

(55:57):
That's one of the things that Iwas interested in.
But also he or Stephen has goneinto a long sort of explanation
about where he sees the marketexcuse me, where he sees the
market.
He's talked about the creatoreconomy much more and he's
talking about how, in phase one,influencers were an ad space.

(56:19):
You know you could put paidbillboards basically you can put
ads against them.
In phase two, influencersbecame employees and they
started working with the brands.
In phase three, influencersbecame equity partners.
They started taking shares inthe companies that they were
promoting and now influencersare equity partners.
They started taking shares inthe companies that they were
promoting and now influencersare the entrepreneurs.
The slice of the company wasn'tbig enough.

(56:40):
So people like Mr Beast havetaken on a whole series of
companies themselves KSI, loganPaul and they're making millions
and billions for themselves.
So Stephen's saying thatbasically, the use of podcasting
and influencers is now changingas a role and they've taken

(57:00):
this guy, leon Farrell, on tolead the creative ventures at
Flight Studio.

Yes, and there are a lot of creator
conversations that StephenBartlett is currently involved
in.
He will be at the podcast showLondon, or rather, the team from
Flight Story will be at thepodcast show in London, and they

(57:27):
have a session called theCreator Economy is Dead.
Welcome to the era of creatorentrepreneurs.
One thing that I would say onthat is that creators aren't
necessarily entrepreneurs.
Some of them can be.
That Stephen Bartlett is a goodexample of somebody that can
also be an entrepreneur as well,but quite a lot of creators

(57:49):
just want to create stuff andthey don't want to run their own
businesses.
So it's good for some people,maybe not so good for others.
But yeah, they will be doing abig session on this at the
podcast show London, which has aton of fascinating things going
on there as well.

Sam Sethi (58:08):
Awards and events.
James, there isn't particularlyone coming up in terms of
awards, but the New York Timeshad an interesting article and
they posed the question areawards really worth the entry
money?
They were talking about how somany of the big awards now you
have to pay two, three $4,000 toenter and they're asking is the

(58:30):
return on investment reallyworth entering an award?

They're asking is the return on investment
really worth entering an award?
Yes, probably, I would guessfrom somebody that was a little
bit grumpy that they didn't winan award.
It's usually the way of thesethings.
Yeah, and the New York Timesarticle is specifically about
the podcast awards the iHeartPodcast Awards, the Ambi Awards

(58:56):
and the Signal Awards and somepodcasters are fearing a money
grab.
Of course, there are plentymore shows that aren't, or
plenty more awards that aren't.
These three as well, three aswell.
Um, so you know, yes, I mean youknow, the there's particularly
um, uh, you know, um, uh, aquote from Jason Hock, who is a

(59:21):
podcast producer andentrepreneur Um and um, yeah,
it's um, it, it, you know it's,it's the usual, the usual um,
you know, conversation of ohwell, you know, have to pay a
lot to enter awards.
Yeah, you do, because awards,actually, if you want a decent
award ceremony, it costs money.
And if you want decent awards,they cost money.

(59:45):
And if you want judges, if youwant to make sure that you get
decent judges rather than someof the ways that some of these
shows are actually chosen, thenthat costs money as well.
So you know, this guy seems tobe really surprised that,
firstly, you have to pay toenter awards and, secondly, you

(01:00:05):
have to pay for the award itselfas well, which is what normally
happens in these things.
So, yeah, it's a bit sort ofsad that you get these knocking
emails after a while.
But you know, there you go.
I suppose people are alwaysgoing to write nasty things,
aren't they about things?

Sam Sethi (01:00:26):
Pay your money, get your rewards.

James Cridland (01:00:29):
Well, yes, but you know on the other side, if
you don't enter awards, you'renever going to win them.
So you know, you've obviouslygot that side of it as well.

Sam Sethi (01:00:39):
Now, talking of awards, the Webby Awards have
announced the winners.
The event is going to be on the12th of May at Cipriani in Wall
Street.
But again, james, the bigwinner was Dan Toberski's
Hysterical.
He seems to have won everythingthis year.
He's won so many other awards.
He's won Amby's, he's won AppleAwards.

(01:01:01):
I should really listen to it, Iguess.

Yes, I know I keep on thinking that as well.
Yeah, he's not necessarily thebig winner.
He is one of the winners KaraSwisher also winning for an
appearance she made on thePossible podcast.
Lots of other winners in thereas well.
I had the exclusive of thepodcast winners in Tuesday's Pod

(01:01:29):
News this week.
And particular congratulationsto Club Shay Shay from iHeart
Podcasts.
They won both the Webby Awardsand the People's Voice Award for
Best Creator or InfluencerSeries.
You know, winning both theWebby Award and the People's

(01:01:50):
Voice Award is obviously a veryimportant thing that only the
very best Webby Award winnersget.

Sam Sethi (01:01:57):
Oh, come on, has anyone else done this?

Just asking, oh yeah, oh, yeah, sorry, yes, I
forget, that was one that I won.
But yes, but the full list inthe usual Pod News fashion, you
know, linking to the trailersand the artwork and everything
else you'll find in thepodnewsnet website.

Sam Sethi (01:02:21):
Now the London podcast show is coming up very
soon, 21st, 22nd of May.
James who's going to beheadlining as partners there yes
, so they have signed.

This is a deal that has apparently taken months
to do, but both Global andiHeart are the headline partners
of the podcast show in London.
Now, that is interestingbecause iHeart is not a company
that has any business in the UK,any business in the UK, nor any

(01:03:01):
business in Europe.
Iheart is a purely US or NorthAmerican brand.
It also has brands in LatinAmerica and here in Australia
and New Zealand, but it'snowhere in anywhere in Europe.
So it's interesting seeing thatthey are one of the two big
sponsors.
The other big sponsor, or theother big headline partner, is
Global, which is a radio companythat also owns Captivate, based

(01:03:25):
in the UK.
So what are iHeart doing there?
Who knows?
There's an interesting thing.
Anyway, lots of media partners,lots of exhibitors, lots of
paid partners and everythingelse all involved.
There's a big list of them inthe Pod News website this week.
And, yeah, I'm looking forwardto being there, as are you, sam,

(01:03:47):
because I know that you'recoming, because this very show
is live on the second daytowards the end.
So we're looking forward todoing I'm sure everybody will be
delighted to know just a30-minute version of this show.
So that should be fun.
I've already been chatting to acouple of people who will be

(01:04:10):
coming.
Danny Brown from Captivate.
He will be coming.
They've allowed him out ofCanada just for this.
Excellent, so he gets to, washis Scottish accent fading.

Sam Sethi (01:04:20):
Did he have to come back and get some more?

Scottish in him.
Well, nobody will understandhim in London, of course will
they, but there we areTransatlantic voices.

Sam Sethi (01:04:32):
Yes, the good news is , next week we will have Jason
Carter, the organiser, the owner, the CEO whatever title Jason
would like to have on the showto tell us more about what's
going on at the London PodcastShow.

That will be an excellent thing.
And talking about Danny Brown,I am on the podcast that he puts
together in and aroundpodcasting this week, and so if
you've not had enough of mealthough, goodness, then you can
get another hour of me on thatshow as well.
The Tech Stuff on the Pod NewsWeekly Review.

(01:05:07):
Yes, it's the stuff you'll findevery Monday in the Pod News
newsletter.
Here's where Sam talkstechnology.
What have you got here, Sam?

Sam Sethi (01:05:16):
Well, one of the things that we've tried to do is
not just have UK voices orAmerican voices or English
speaking voices.
We've tried to go further, theinterview with Podio being one
example to understand about theMiddle East market.
And one of our friends over inIndia is Gautam Rajnand and he
runs Hubhopper, and from time totime we want to catch up with

(01:05:38):
him to find out what's happeningin the South Asian market, but
also what's he doingspecifically with Hubhopper.
And they recently announcedthat they've integrated with
Headliners Eddie to provide AIpowered text editing and
transcriptions.
But they've also announced thatthey've now integrated with
YouTube to provide ai poweredtext editing and transcriptions.
But they've also announced thatthey've now integrated with
youtube to provide videopodcasting um, so one of the

(01:06:00):
first hosts to actually supportdirect video podcasting.
And they've also launched a newum guest and host matching
service.
I best think that's the way totalk.
Talk about it.
It's called a mic match or, andso, yes, I thought I'd reach
out to gotham and find outwhat's going on with hub hopper

(01:06:21):
and what's going on in india.
And I start off by saying oneof the things that we had talked
about recently was video andpodcast hosts supporting it.

Gautam Raj Anand (01:06:29):
Tell me more about what you've done with
video integration yeah, I meanactually, you and I are in a
couple of groups and we areseeing polarized stances with
the hosts and their approach tovideo podcasts and how
podcasting is changing, I think.
For us, as a philosophy, Ithink podcasts are whatever the

(01:06:51):
consumer wants them to be.
At least in a couple of yearsago, podcasts denoted or implied
a technology, right, and nowit's changed more from a
technology to a conversationalstyle, and that conversational
style can take place across anyformat.
So, as an organization becausewe know that the pain point and

(01:07:14):
the want of the creator today isto be omnichannel and the
assumption of the consumer isthat podcasts can be anything
Our goal is to facilitatedistribution, not just into
audio but also into video andsocial from one platform alone

(01:07:36):
and social from one platformalone.
So I mean, right now you'relooking at Hubbub distributing
directly into YouTube along withall audio platforms, some of
which are exclusive just to usbecause they're in the South
Asian market and emergingmarkets.
But going forward, you're goingto see us integrating with very
many different video platformsas well, some very large names
of course we don't need to guessbetween the two of us and then,

(01:07:59):
in the future, extending thatforward to also automatically
distribute into social platformsfrom Hubhopper.
So objective is upload once,distribute everywhere.
So yeah, that's pretty much ourthought process right now and
we think that this echoes verystrongly and true with creators.
So what's?

Sam Sethi (01:08:17):
been the uptake with video from your user base.
So what have they said?

Okay.
So it's been really goodactually, and let's talk about
the negative side.
So first is, we saw a slowdownon the number of audio creators.
So it's not just a one-sidedpush, it's also a pull down from
the other side.
I don't know how many hosts orhow many folks would admit to
this, but we've actually seen adeceleration in the number of
audio podcasts being created,and ever since we enabled video

(01:08:48):
distribution via YouTube justnow we've come back to Cetris
Paribus.
So the uptake has beentouchwood really good, because
we also do a thing where if youupload an MP file to upload to
YouTube and, in the future,other video platforms, we will
automatically also convert itinto audio and distribute it

(01:09:08):
into audio platforms.
So we want to make it suchwhere, even if you're uploading
an MP3 file, you will have theability to convert it into a.
Even if you're uploading an mp3file, you'll have the ability
to convert it into a video file,which is an mp4 file, and
distribute it into youtube andvice versa.

Sam Sethi (01:09:21):
So either way, we want to get you into as many
platforms as possible so are yougoing to use the alternative
enclosure to then have one feedwith both audio and video in it,
or are you going to have twoseparate feeds?

so you're aware, and we already do support
the alternate enclosure tag,but once again, we want to leave
this to the creator'sdiscretion, so we give them the
opportunity and option ofleveraging the alternate
enclosure tag, but also, if theyso wish, to have different
feeds for these shows andoperating as being completely

(01:09:57):
different because they'redifferent media formats.

Sam Sethi (01:09:59):
That's fine from our side as well are you considering
creating a alternative formatwhich is hls, so instead of
having m3 and MP4, having asingle HLS format which could be
a funny thing because we have alot of exclusive platforms-

(01:10:20):
that we distribute to.

We created the standard for the way they were
actually taking in podcasts.
So we helped build their entireecosystem of having podcasts on
their platform up and assistedtheir tech team.
So we thought that this was areally interesting opportunity
for us to distribute via hls,because we'd also be able to

(01:11:00):
tell creators you know drop offrates till what point people
were consuming, which isunfortunately a major you know
pain point for creators wherethey don't really know their
finishing rates or completion.
So we did that and integratedsuccessfully and this had, you
know, positive impact on ourserver costs as well and hosting

(01:11:20):
costs.
Did this for a couple of yearswith a few companies, giant
companies which have 500 millionmonthly active users.
Unfortunately, then came thetime where people wanted to
start standardizing towards whatSpotify were doing and what the
largest platforms are doing.
So these companies then cameback to us and said, ok, we've

(01:11:43):
been doing HLS for a really longtime, could we please actually
go back to MP3, or rather go toMP3 for the first time?
Or rather go to MP3 for thefirst time?
So for an organization thatactually tried to be future
forward with HLS four years ago,we unfortunately, due to market
forces were forced into the oldschool structure of doing
things.
We're very happy to try itagain.

(01:12:05):
I think it has positivebenefits for everybody involved.
We just wouldn't need the DSPthe consumption side platforms
to be open to doing it.
All of our tech stack is stillready to support it.
It's been built in that way.

Sam Sethi (01:12:20):
Well, with my CEO of TrueFans, I'll tell you we
already support HLS, so you canalways try it with us if you
want.
But the other thing I'm lookingat, Gautam, and maybe something
you want to look at there's anew update to hls called low
latency hls.
So one of the things you weretalking about with hls was six
second chunks of data andtherefore you could measure

(01:12:42):
performance based on where itdropped off.
You can actually do low latencyhls and it's a one second chunk
and it's actually a standardthat they've updated on HLS, so
maybe it's worth looking at thatas well.

Thank you for that.
I've actually taken a note ofthat.
I didn't know about this.
Thank you so much for puttingit on my radar.
Thank you.

Sam Sethi (01:13:04):
No worries Now.
One of the other issues withvideo is cost cost of
distribution.
What are you finding from yourown experience with the cost?

look.
There's no way to argue againstit.
It is a cost.
My hope is that it is ashort-term cost which, over time
, will get commoditized, thesame way as today we look at
audio hosting costs, which areactually quite affordable.

(01:13:36):
Today they used to be verydifferent, even five, six, seven
years ago.
I believe the same thing willpotentially happen on the video
side of things, and differenthosting providers when I say
hosting providers, I mean infraproviders will battle to a point
where these costs will actuallybe bearable both for us as well
as for the customer, becausethe last thing we want to do is

(01:13:59):
one is either bleed too muchmoney we are open to take the
first hit on it initially andnot put too much of the burden
on the customer but goingforward, we would also want it
to be such where it'seconomically viable for us as
well as for the end creator, aswell as for the infra company.
So I mean it should be awin-win.

(01:14:21):
I know this is a verydiplomatic thing to say, but
we've already seen it happenbefore on the audio side of
things, so there's no reason whyit shouldn't happen again.
The second thing that I wouldactually believe is that if with
video podcasts.
If we pass on a little bit ofthe cost to the customer, the
potential for monetization isgenerally a little bit higher on

(01:14:42):
the video side and this is nosurprise to anybody.
So if we're charging a slightlyhigher amount for video hosting
and video distribution, the hopeand the assumption is on our
side that the monetization forthe creator should also be
commensurate and they should beable to pull that much capital
out of it.
So at the end of this entirescenario, if we're looking at

(01:15:06):
each individual creator havingtheir own P&L and a balance
sheet, they shouldn't be hit toobadly Right now.
We're not pushing these costsheavily onto them.
We're taking a large burden ofit to balance sheet.
They shouldn't be hit too badlyright now.
We're not pushing these costsheavily onto them.
We're taking a large burden ofit because otherwise it'll shock
the system.
But over time we'd want it tobe such that their monetization
is strong enough that they'reable to withstand a little bit

(01:15:28):
of slightly higher hostingcharges on the video side, at
the same time hoping thatmacroeconomic forces will
prevail and you'll see generallyvideo hosting becoming cheaper
at an infra level.

Sam Sethi (01:15:42):
I agree.
I think scalability to networkusage should come down with more
access to it.
Now, congratulations on doingthat.
That sounds very exciting.
Now, the other thing I wantedto talk to you is a new feature
that you've launched, or a newsite you've launched, maybe
called Mic Match.
Now tell me more about MicMatch.

Okay.
So thank you so much, sam.
I think the last year has beenreally interesting in podcasting
for everybody, because we'veeven seen major changes at a
data level, like, for example.
We've even seen major changesat a data level, like, for
example, we've seen the peakdays for creator upload changing
.
Now we're looking at peak daysfor creator upload sitting
between tuesday and wednesday.

(01:16:23):
Peak days for consumption ishappening on friday and saturday
.
You're looking at the hours ofconsumption changing.
You're looking at devotion andreligion, which I told you the
last time I was on this call,being the top genre for
consumption by a big margin.
You're looking at that marginshrinking and education is now
coming and catching up very,very quickly.

(01:16:45):
And I think a large portion ofthis is actually because people
have begun to think aboutpodcasts in a slightly different
way ever since YouTube cameinto the market and they think
about podcasts as a synonymousword with interviews, basically,
podcasts equaling interviews.
That creates a whole host ofnew problem statements in the

(01:17:07):
market, and these problemstatements may have been there
always, but they've just been,you know, lifted up to a large
degree.
So the problem statement thatI'll state to you, which you
probably have also felt, is thechasm or the pain point between
podcasts hosts not being able tofind appropriate guests and

(01:17:28):
podcast guests who are aspiringguests that may be leaders in
their own space, who all want tobe on podcasts because it's a
showcase of their domainauthority not being able to find
how to actually be on shows.
So we did a little bit ofresearch in trying to understand
this place and this chasm andfound out that this problem was

(01:17:51):
much more painful than we hadinitially thought it was,
because even people that weredomain leaders and market
leaders in their own fields, theonly way that they were able to
reach out to podcasts in theirvicinity was through word of
mouth, because the only otheroptions that they had at their
disposal in a market like India,other emerging markets, etc.

(01:18:12):
Were they would have to put itup on Instagram, which is
something that they wouldn't dobecause they've been in the
industry that they've been infor 15 years, which is quite
embarrassing for them to do.
So they wouldn't do it.
They wouldn't put it up onLinkedIn either.
At best they would, you know,slide into a creator's DMs or

(01:18:33):
write into them in email onLinkedIn, or they would cold
mail them.
That was their best casescenario and then they'd get
lost in a barrage of mails orDMs that the host was already
getting, despite this personbeing a potentially appropriate
guest, and the host on the otherside was having the opposite

(01:18:53):
problem statement, wherein theywere getting a lot of people
that wanted to be on their shows, but very small percentage of
them actually were appropriatefor their shows, so only like
15-20% of them would beappropriate for their shows.
So think about Mic Match asnothing but a Tinder.
Think about Mike Match asnothing but a Tinder.
For podcast hosts and podcastguests.

(01:19:15):
No-transcript fill in detailsof what they're specifically
looking for takes you into avery clean user experience.
You get weekly suggestions onpotential guests or potential
hosts, which are marked with aparticular percentage of how

(01:19:38):
strong your match is, and thenyou can start a conversation
with these people and if theconversations begins to move
forward, the feature already hasa crm in it, so you, together
between you and your potentialnext guest, can then move each
other across the crm and both ofyou keep getting notified as
the crm position is changing.
So we've got a lot of positivefeedback and critique in the

(01:20:02):
initial days of the things thatwe're doing wrong, as well as
the things that we're doingright.
So, in order to get a lot morefeedback right now, we've kept
it completely free, both forhosts and for guests.
So come one, come all, go tomicmatchio and give it a whirl
and please be brutally honest.
We know that at an MVP level,there's a lot more that we can

(01:20:24):
do.
We just believe that this is abroken marketplace problem that
can be solved.
And, sam, I'm just sort ofgiving you a little bit of peek
into what could be in store inthe future is that this isn't
the only broken marketplace inthe podcasting space.
There is still a brokenmarketplace with people that

(01:20:45):
want services which are rangingfrom editing to animation, to,
etc.
And podcast hosts.
There's another brokenmarketplace between brands
across the board and podcasters.
So I'm maybe jumping the gun,but if you've created something
that actually joins peopleeffectively, that somewhat

(01:21:06):
sticks together a brokenmarketplace, you have the
opportunity of solvingdefragmentation to quite a
little bit of a degree andhelping folks along the way, but
still long ways for us to goEarly stages.
It's a beta product, which iswhy it's free.
Please kindly use it, go for itand tell us what you like, tell
us what you don't like.

Sam Sethi (01:21:24):
I'll be brutally honest, I'm not a great fan of
matching services, but that'sbecause you don't like.
I'll be brutally honest, I'mnot a great fan of matching
services, but that's because Idon't use them myself.
But I can see the need, I cansee how you've implemented it
and you know ranking guests andI saw a service recently from
jim james who actually did apost ranking of the guest based
on their tone, their speed ofconversation, their expertise.

(01:21:47):
That was quite interesting aswell.
So I think you know I canimagine you with Mike Match,
being able to then upload, hostthe interview, an ability to say
, oh yeah, this guest was greatand here's the AI report on them
and here's what the transcriptsaid about them, etc.
I think there's so muchopportunity there, I can see

(01:22:10):
them, etc.
I think there's so muchopportunity there I can see and
I love the idea, like fiverr,being able to find video editors
or ai people or maybe justsomebody who's a publisher or a
script writer or whatever.
I think that's a lovely brokenmarket, I agree with you.
And then branding for the longtail, I think, is again another
broken market.
So, yeah, nice ideas like them.
So, gotham, congratulations onall the work you've been doing
with youtube and video all thework with mic match.

(01:22:33):
Tell people where they can goagain to find out more about hub
hopper and mic matchhubhoppercom, and if you go to
hubhoppercom, slash pod news,we'll create a specific link for
that.

We'll give you a few months free as well so
that you can play around with itand tell us what you like and
what you don't like, and thenmicmatchio is anyways free.
So come one, come all.
Please tell us your thoughtsand where we can improve.
There's a bunch that we can do,I'm sure, but exciting days
ahead and looking forward to it.
Thanks, sam, for always tellingus and telling me about these

(01:23:08):
incredible new things.
I'm going to look at lowlatency HLS right now, in fact,
after this call, and yeah, catchyou later today possibly.

Sam Sethi (01:23:17):
Thanks, Gautam, Speak to you soon.
Bye mate.

Announcer (01:23:20):
Boostergram, boostergram, boostergram, super
Super comments Zaps, fan mail.
Fan mail.

Super, yes.
So many different ways to getin touch with us Fan mail by
using the link in our show notes, super comments on True Fans,
boosts everywhere else.
Or email, of course, we shareany money that we make as well
between us.
It's weekly at podnewsnet, bythe way.
Our email, uh address and allof that, and um, a ton of um, a
ton of boosts.
All of a sudden, seeing loadsof boosts, although, I have to

(01:24:00):
say, most of them from true fans, although there's a fair amount
from the fountain app, uh aswell.
Um, what have we got here, sam?
We've got one from Matt Cundall.

Sam Sethi (01:24:10):
Yeah, matt says.
Excellent interview with Amayafrom Spotify.
Appreciate the demystifying ofSpotify video.
Yes, it was a good interview.
Well done sir.

Why?
Thank you very much, and goodof Amaya to come on John
McDermott 4,444 sats, that'snice.
Thank you, john.
I wish to complain.
He says Does he want the10-minute complaint or the full
half hour?
I love James's comments aboutcopying bosses on email so much

(01:24:40):
I almost emailed him about it.
That would have been notgetting it.
So now you guys get satsBrilliant Double four, double
four, double ducks, or $3.79,according to True Fans Tech.
Yes, thank you, john.
He of course launched a coupleof weeks ago White Smoke, a
podcast all about how the nextnew pope is chosen.

(01:25:03):
It's almost as if he knew thatsomething was going to happen
there, but still.
Yes, yes, it's almost as if heknew that something was going to
happen there, but but still yes, yes, yes, conclave came out
six months too early, that's allwhat else have we got here?

Sam Sethi (01:25:18):
222 to a row of ducks from Bruce the ugly quacking
duck.
I got lost, looked up GoogleMaps, ended up getting my wires
crossed.
Still found my way back to news.
Thanks again for for PodNews.
You guys are a great team.
Thank you 73 on the call out.

Yes, thank you, bruce.
From the late bloomer actor 375sats.
I love the SPC concept fromJohn Spurlock.
Yes, that was in last week'sshow as well, wasn't it?
He says it can't come quickenough.
I feel there's only one realmetric we need and that's a
retention metric, perhapscoupled with listener data.

(01:25:55):
I don't care that much aboutdownload data.
No good if I have 1,000downloads but they all stop
listening under 10% in.
But if I've got 50 downloadsand they all average 90% or more
of my show, then that's dataworth knowing.
Now, john does actually havethe concept of that retention

(01:26:17):
data in the SPC as an example.
Where do you sort of stand onthe SPC, sam?
Are you thinking it's anexcellent plan or is it a bit
naive from John's point of view?

Sam Sethi (01:26:33):
No, I don't think it's naive.
I think you know we do need toshare this data back with hosts.
It's what you know late bloomeractor is looking for.
Right, we have that data.
He has that data actually inhis creator's dashboard because
I know he uses true fans.
But, um, what john's asking usto do for the metadata high

(01:26:55):
level, you know, um, number oflisteners, number of followers,
total time listened, um, thatstuff we can share with hosts.
But, as I said on the interview, um, it's a quid pro quo.
You, you know, if we're goingto give you, as a host, this
data, what do we get back in?
It's more of a business deal,you know.
Will you promote us as a app onyour platform?
Will you write about it in thenewsletter?

(01:27:17):
Will?
you encourage people to come tous, because why would we do it
otherwise?
So I don't think it's naive, Ithink we need to work together,
but there needs to be youscratch your back and I'll
scratch mine, um, or the otherway around, even Um, but um, no,
I think it works.
I think the the the problem isthe array of data that John

(01:27:38):
wants, which is, um, wherepeople uh, listen up to and
where they drop off.
That's slightly um informationthat I don't know yet.
I don't know what I'm going todo with that because, again, one
of the things we want as appsto be able to do is to, you know
, create pro accounts, and thathas to be some value in creating
a pro account, and that'spotentially first party data

(01:28:02):
given back to the creator.
Now, some of that data I knowyou said is is the data, is
their data right, fair enough,but without us writing the tools
, they wouldn't have the data.
So, um, accessing the data andthen allowing the creator to
choose, with a permission toshare back to their host, is
probably the way we will do it,so that we're not the ones

(01:28:23):
making that decision, but it'sthe creator themselves saying
yeah, I've got all this data,I've paid for it.
It's in my creator saying, yeah, I've got all this data, I've
paid for it.
It's in my creator's dashboardand, yes, I'm going to share
this data via SPC back to myhost.
I think that may be the way itgoes.

Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what
happens and whether or not anypodcast apps you know jump in
and start sharing that kind ofinformation.
I think it's a very clevertechnical solution, but I think,
yes, there's definitely somebusiness conversations to be
going on there as well.
I guess what else have we got?

(01:28:59):
We've got Lyceum with 2222satsa row of ducks.
James, I know somebody whocould do email training.
I'm not really looking foremail training, I'm just saying
that that's a really good way toget rich.
That's all I'm saying.
Anyway, he says fellowpodcaster, david Steenholm, his
title is Struktur, the structureguy.

(01:29:19):
Check out his podcast.
Done All the best, martinLindeskog.
I'm trying to pronounce that inthe same way that Adam Curry
does.
So, yes, lyceum.
Thank you so much for that.
Yes, I think that is an easyway to get rich is to teach

(01:29:41):
people how to use email.
Silas on Linux sent us a coupleof a bag of Richards.
Don't call it Sam Talks, trueFans or True Fans Weekly Review.
Call it True Sams.
Ah, now this is your newpodcast, isn't it?
Have you got a name for it?

Sam Sethi (01:29:59):
Yes, we're going to just call it.
Creators, oh Creators.
Yes, it's very simple, and it'sbasically Claire and I.
We recorded the first episodeyesterday or it will land on
Monday.
Yeah, so we're just finishingoff the editing and then, yes,
it will be James in your newpodcast apps for you to find
Very nice.

Is it going to have a trailer?

Sam Sethi (01:30:21):
It is going to have a trailer as well, so yes, you'll
be able to use that.
No, we just thought very, verysimply.
It's about helping creatorsmonetize their fandoms, and so
it's all about creators.
So we're going to highlight umindependent podcast creators and
independent podcast musicians.
Um invite some of those maybeon the show.
Talk about what's uh availablefor them to make money as

(01:30:44):
creators and how they can do it.
So, yeah, that's sort of uhtheme of the creator show.

What Silas also says is speaking of Tim Cook
being the worst thing to happento Apple.
Not going to agree or disagreewith that, but Tim Cook has been
serving as CEO for longer thanSteve Jobs ever did.
Think about that, somethingthat I hadn't considered.
So, silas, thank you for that.
And he also sends um a row ofducks, um, uh, quoting uh me, or

(01:31:13):
actually quoting Maya, uh, who,uh, I fervently agree with
sticking video in an RSS feed isa bad user experience.
And, uh, silas says that's areally bullshit statement.
The RSS feed does not dictateuser experience.
Ah, but in this case it does.
In this case it does, becauseputting a massive, great big RSS

(01:31:34):
, a massive, great big videofile in an RSS feed is not great
, is not a good plan, but is it?

Sam Sethi (01:31:42):
I mean we don't put the MP3 in the RSS, we put a
pointer to it.

No, no, no, but you know.
But even putting a pointer inthere, it's not a great user
experience for video, becauseyou need multiple different
versions of video, you needmultiple different resolutions,
you need all kinds of all kindsof things that just sticking one
video file in there is not goodfor anybody.
Uh, in there is not good foranybody, um, and at the end of

(01:32:07):
the day, um, you know, if youcan't, if you, if you can't
stream it, um then then itreally doesn't work from a point
of view of a playback uhexperience.
There's a reason why YouTubeworks the way it does and
doesn't just download the youknow the 1080p video to your
device.

(01:32:27):
You know it works that way sothat it can look the best on
whatever device you actuallyhave.

Sam Sethi (01:32:35):
So- which is why low latency HLS, I think, is a way
forward.

Correct, which is why streaming is certainly
one of the ways forward forvideo.
I think that that makes a bunchof sense.
So, silas, thank you for yoursats.
Don't agree, but very kind ofyou to get in touch and talking
about people who I don't agreewith, 1,173 sats, which is

(01:33:00):
something from Seth, and Sethjust says Apple is evil, and I'm
not sure I agree with thateither.
I don't think that Apple is.
I don't think.
Certainly, if you were to lookat Apple in comparison to Google
or Microsoft or Facebook, Ithink Apple will come out pretty
well out of that, and I don'tthink that that's particularly

(01:33:23):
fair.
So, yeah, so I don't agree withthat either, but thanks for the
stats.

Sam Sethi (01:33:28):
I'm more on the side of Seth than on yours.
I think Apple has turned evil.
I think the stuff that they'vedone recently with the App Store
and the way that they'vebehaved with the European Union
and the way that they aretreating certain people, I think
yes, well, they've just beenfined, haven't they?

Very well, They've just been fined another,
you know, bazillion dollars.
Yes.

Sam Sethi (01:33:54):
And what did Tim Cook do?
Went straight to Donald Trumpto go and say go and tell those
naughty Europeans off for meplease.

Yes, I paid my million dollars earlier on.
This is where I get my comeback.
It's government.
It's how it works.
Thank you so much to theexcellent 18, our power
supporters.
You can join them atweeklypodnewsnet for your kind

(01:34:24):
amounts of money every singlemonth.
They are Star Tempest, brianEntsminger, the late bloomer
actor, james Burt, johnMcDermott, claire Waite-Brown,
mazzilene Smith, neil Velio,rocky Thomas, jim James, david
Marzell, cy Jobling, rachelCorbett, dave Jackson, mike
Hamilton, matt Medeiros,marshall Brown and Cameron Moll.

(01:34:45):
You can join them if you like.
Just head over clutching yourcredit card to weeklypodnewsnet.
You can start for just $3 amonth and get in that list, and
that'll be a splendid thing.
So thank you for them.
What's happened for you thisweek, sam?

Sam Sethi (01:35:03):
Well, I had a weird epiphany moment.
So we are putting creators as apodcast with Buzzsprout Thank
you to Alban and I was checkingout co-host and I was going
through various features and oneof the things that I wanted to
do with the creators podcast wasalso to create a blog post with
a screencast in it.

(01:35:24):
So, let's say we were talkingabout a new technology with a
screencast in it.
So, let's say we were talkingabout a new technology.
I can reference it and say, oh,by the way, in this episode you
can go to read the blog postand see the screencast of how
this works.
And then I went to Buzzsproutand I realised that CoHost,
their AI technology, does ourtranscriptions, it does our show
titles, but it also pre-createsa blog copy that you can put

(01:35:49):
straight into a blog post.
And I thought, wow, okay.
So I actually went and took theinterview or the episode that we
did with Maya Prohovnik and Iwent and looked at what
Buzzsprout wrote about thatwhole episode and I've cut and
pasted that into True Fans, intothe blog for Pod News Weekly
Review, and so you can now justcreate blog posts instantly from

(01:36:14):
audio shows.
So I think it's quite a nicething.
I would love to work out a waywhere we could automate that in
some way, but I don't know howwe're going to do that yet.
But I do know Dave Jones isworking on something related to
that.

Oh, interesting, have you been on any?
In fact, I know this.
I saw you in some newsletterthis week, in some competing
newsletter.
Not competing, James, notcompeting, no, not really.

Sam Sethi (01:36:44):
No, andrea lovely Andrea that she is invited me on
to Eurowaves to talk about alittle bit about, obviously,
true Fans, but I was alsotalking about the industry and a
lot about AI.
I mean, I'm very gung-ho onwhat we're doing with AI and
yeah, so I talked a little bitabout that and I'll be
presenting and demoing at theLondon Podcast Show some of our

(01:37:08):
new interface that we're workingon related to AI as well.

Very nice, too Excellent.
It would be worthwhile findingout a little bit more about that
.
What else is going on?
We mentioned Stripe earlier.
That's Stripe with a P.
It is yes, that's Stripe with aP it is yes.

Sam Sethi (01:37:30):
One of our things that we did was we created one
click top up of your wallet viaStripe in TrueFans.
That was something that Ithought was a very quick feature
and you said it earlier.
There are a lot of peoplegiving us boosts from TrueFans
and that's because I think it'seasy to do it from TrueFans.
I'm not saying it's not easy inother apps.
I just think we've done an easymethod.

(01:37:52):
But one of the criticisms we hadwas that I've accumulated all
this money in my creator'sdashboard.
How do I get it out?
So we've basically allowed youto either enter your third party
external wallet and then youcan just move your sats from one
wallet to another so from atrue fans wallet to a fountain

(01:38:12):
wallet or a podverse or apodcast guru wallet or, if you
prefer, you can convert thatinto fiat money and you can do a
one click withdrawal straightback to stripe and you can then
say I've got 10 000 sats and Iwant to convert that back into
pounds or dollars.
We'll tell you how much that is.
You click the withdraw buttonand it will appear in your

(01:38:33):
credit card or your bank account.
So, yes, one click access.

Very nice, very nice.
And you're getting very excitedabout another book which you're
not going to read, but you'regoing to get somebody else to
read for you, because that's theway you roll.
I understand how this stuffworks, but it's from Sir Tim
Berners-Lee.
Famously, sir Tim Berners-Leein the opening of the London

(01:39:06):
Olympics in 2012.
Famously, the Americancommentator saying well, I don't
know who he was, but theinventor, of course, of the
World Wide Web, and he ended upactually unveiling at that very
ceremony, something saying thisis for everyone and that's his
new book, isn't it?
You're very excited by it.

Sam Sethi (01:39:25):
Yes, I think the title about it is, you know, and
I think, given where we are inthe world today, with where the
internet's fragmenting and whereeverything is changing, I think
the reminder that he inventedthis for everyone, for humanity,
I think, is a telling time.
Book's coming out in september.
You can pre-order it now.
Um, although, like thatAmerican commentator, I didn't

(01:39:49):
go as big a faux pas as that,but I did, as you may recall,
sit next to Tim Berners-Lee overlunch.
And I did turn around to him andsay what do you do?
Yes, so.
The classic.
Yes, at which point he said Iinvented the web.
Yes, dig a hole yes humble bragindeed.

(01:40:11):
Um, anyway, james, on that,that embarrassing note.
Uh, what's happened for youthis week?

well, um, I wrote a thing about the new
location tag, which, um, I thinkis you know.
We're just getting ready forthat to um, for the revisions of
that to get into the newpodcast namespace.
So you'll find that blog postover at podcastnamespaceorg
under the location tag in there.

(01:40:39):
I've remembered that I own thatwebsite.
Might as well do something withit.
But the point of the blog postwas really just to point out the
benefit of the open street mapfunctionality in there.
It's very easy, I think, forquite a lot of people just to
put the lat alone and think thatthey've done everything.

(01:40:59):
And yeah, you can do that withthe spec.
But it's not really going to bea particularly exciting
experience.
And I think what I'm excitedabout is being able to turn
around and say show me, make abig map of lots of podcasts

(01:41:19):
which are to do with wineries,for example.
Don't even make a map, justshow me All of the podcasts
which are to do with vineyardsin the south of France, for
example.
You can do that withOpenStreetMap IDs.
You can't do that with just arandom lat-lon point on the map.

(01:41:42):
So this will help you get realvisibility for shows.
So please go and read that incase you're thinking about
implementing the podcastlocation tag, but you're
thinking about being lazy andnot using OpenStreetMap, because
it's a super useful thing andwill really make you know, allow

(01:42:06):
us to do loads of reallyinteresting things.
If you are, for example,producing a podcast app which is
all about shows from churches,let's just say, then you could
use the OpenStreetMap IDs toactually give not just maps of

(01:42:29):
those churches but lists ofthose churches where they all
are.
All of that a different way into the podcast information, and
I think quite a lot of this isall to do with.
So far, everybody is just usingpodcast apps.
Where you go in, you search fora podcast, you listen to the

(01:42:49):
podcast, but actually we canorganise the world of audio in
lots of other ways as well, andI do think that the location tag
is one of the most excitingthings there from that point of
view.

Sam Sethi (01:43:03):
Anyway, there we are.
You know that we use the newformat for you in Pod News Daily
, if anyone wants to see it.

But we are switching to OpenStreetMaps from
Google Maps for the very reasonyou just explained Hurrah,
which is an excellent thing, andalso a few things on my
personal blog.
There's something aboutFreshRSS which I have just gone
to use.
Instead of spending lots ofmoney on a paid for RSS reader,

(01:43:36):
I thought I've got these boxeshidden away.
I might as well use them, soI've thrown that on there of how
to install that.
A few other things and perhapsone thing.
It's a little bit sweary, butthere's a radio station here in
Australia which, um a soundsrubbish um, and really sounds
not very good at all.

(01:43:57):
But also um B has been using anAI voice for the last six
months and no one has noticed,probably because the radio
station sounds so appalling Iwould doubt that anybody's
actually listening to it.
But anyway, it's worth a read.
If you want to go and have alook at that, jamescridlandnet
slash blog is where you'll findthat.

Sam Sethi (01:44:17):
I love the line.
It's the Milli Vanilli ofSydney radio.

Yes, milli Vanilli.
Remember them, my goodness.
And that's it for this week.
All of our podcast storiestaken from the Pod News daily
newsletter at podnewsnet.

Sam Sethi (01:44:32):
You can support this show by streaming stats.
You can give us feedback byusing the Buzzsprout fan mail
link in your show notes.
You can send us a super commentor a boost or become a power
supporter, like the excellent 18at weeklypodnewsnet.

Our music is from TM Studios.
Our voiceover is Sheila D, ouraudio is recorded using Clean
Feed, we edit with Hindenburgand we're hosted and sponsored
by Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.
Get updated every day.
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Ted Sarandos (01:45:06):
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