Podimo's success; and the Pod Predictor from Coleman Insights

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Friday, the 28th of February 2025.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Sethi.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News, and I'm
Sam Sethi, the CEO of TrueFans.

Speaker 4 (00:18):
Coming up.
We're entering a partnershipwith creators.
We're not just a platform.
That's why we're different,right.

Speaker 5 (00:23):
Morten Strunke from Podimo on why the company is
successful and growing and howcan you make content that isn't
just good, but content that istruly appealing to that target
audience, but it's also buildingyour brand and is in sync with
your brand's expectations at thesame time?

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Jay Nachlis from Coleman Insights talking about
Podpredictor, their new tool totest your show before it
launches, and Apple makes iteasier to claim your podcast.
Youtube says over one billionpeople watch podcast content
monthly.
Listennote says AI be gone.
And happy fourth birthday toSpotify Hi-Fi.

(01:01):
If only we knew where it was.
This podcast is sponsored byBuzzsprout with the tool to
support a community.
To ensure you keep podcasting,start podcasting.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
keep podcasting with buzzsproutcom From your daily
newsletter the Pod News WeeklyReview.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Right, James.
It's not only Spotify's fourthbirthday for Hi-Fi, but can you
imagine if Steve Jobs was stillalive?
He would have been 70 this week, 70.
Well, there's a thing.
One thing I would say is that Imiss Steve Jobs because I think
there would have been a deviceor application that he would
have delivered.
I still hear from Apple peoplesaying I wonder what Steve Jobs

(01:40):
would do.
They'd still reference him.
You know, it's like the ghostof Jobs.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yes, he was on.
Johnny Ive was on Desert IslandDiscs, if you go and find that
particular podcast, and he wasthere talking about what would
Steve Jobs do?
So, yes, absolutely.
I'm sure that it happens, butthe folks at Apple Podcasts have
, though, done something I thinkthat Steve Jobs would have done
, and that's made things alittle bit easier, haven't they?

Speaker 3 (02:04):
They have indeed, and I think it that Steve Jobs
would have done, and that's madethings a little bit easier,
haven't they?
They have, indeed, and I thinkthey got a little nudge from you
.
I think, james, your reportcard from last year reported
that Apple need to make theirsubmission process a lot easier.
So you know, the report carddoes provide feedback and it
does provide action.
So, yes, they've tried to makeit easy you can now claim your
show but they've done it in owntag as well but they are

(02:47):
supporting the podcast TXT tag.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
No idea why they've got two duplicate tags in there.
It doesn't make any sense atall, but certainly using that
podcast TXT tag is a good thing.
I think, didn't they.

Speaker 3 (02:59):
I thought they had the TXT already.
I think they're just using itnow for this verification.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
So the way that you claim your show in apple
podcasts connect and and we'llget on to why this is important
in just a second but the waythat you claim your show is
apple podcast will say put thisum code into your uh rss feed um
, ideally in the podcast txt tag, um, and it'll be a six-figure

(03:25):
number or something.
And so you put it in there andhey, presto, as soon as Apple
sees that it knows that you haveaccess to that particular
podcast, and hey, presto, it'syours.
So that's really cool andreally super.
Why that's particularly helpfulis that Apple have dropped the
requirement to have an Appleaccount if you're going to

(03:47):
submit a show.
So you can now submit a show ifyou're with a participating
podcast host, you can now justpress one button and it submits
it for you, which is very cool.
So there are some good podcasthosts in there, including our
sponsor, buzzsprout, and ofcourse, then later on you might
want to claim that show in ApplePodcasts Connect to see some of

(04:09):
the numbers as well.
So very cool.
It's got rid of two of the bigbugbears that the PodNews report
card kicked up last year, and Ithink that's essentially what
the report card is there for.
It's there to make it easierfor somebody who's product
manager, for example, for ApplePodcasts, to basically go look,

(04:30):
here's all of the evidence thatwe need to fix this particular
problem.
Let's go and fix it.
Could I have some engineeringresource to go and fix it?
And so the Pod News report tagis a really useful tool for that
sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Does this mean that they're building on delegated
delivery?
Is it part of that similarfunction?
So now you've got the abilityto verify the podcast and
through delegated delivery.
Are the hosts doing this or isit a separate function?

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, so far as I'm aware, it's just a separate
function.
So hosts like Buzzsprout andmany others have a way of
submitting a new show to ApplePodcasts through an API.
So that's easy and simple andstraightforward.
And then this tag as well,which allows them to actually,

(05:24):
you know, check that you do haveaccess to that particular show.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
So does this now mean again?
I'm asking you lots ofquestions because it's very
interesting for me Does thismean that every one of the hosts
that's participated with Applenow has a field within the host
where you enter that?

Speaker 1 (05:41):
code they do.
That's exactly what it means.
So that should mean that if youare wanting with TrueFans, if
you are wanting to verify thatsomebody owns that particular
podcast, then you can use thesame type of thing as well.
Hooray at last, so you should beable to.
So my understanding iseverybody has used that

(06:06):
particular tag in some way,shape or form.
I think Apple, to be fair, Ithink Apple just looks through
the entire RSS feed for thatparticular code.
So you'll notice, with someshows, for example, if you have
a look at their copyrightinformation, then there's a
weird six-figure code in therebecause at some point they've

(06:29):
used it in there instead.
So I think that's really what'sgoing on.
But using the podcast TXT fieldmeans that it's hidden away and
means that nobody gets to seethat random code.
But it is just a really simpleway of just proving that you own
that particular show.
So yeah, so that's the wayforward.

(06:49):
So it should mean that anybodyelse can actually do that same
sort of thing as well.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
We are working with one host to try and make this
work.
I did work with Tom Rossi acouple of years ago to try and
get this to work, and I'm notblaming Tom.
Tom came up with the sameprocess for doing this.
Um, I wasn't ready and I thinktom wasn't that interested, if
I'm honest, and so the wholething fell apart.
But I'm glad to see that it'sworking, and if you now have all

(07:16):
these hosts using that fieldand updating the rss feed, then
we should be able to do the samething, which is really nice,
nice, cool.
I'm very happy.
But now one of the things thatcame out of that I had a
discussion with another hostthis week and it was on the back
of Mark Asquith's post, whichwas last week has podcasting 2.0

(07:36):
failed?
And of course, the answer is no.
But he then actually said whyshould hosts care about
podcasting 2.0?
What's in it for them?
And I went I'm sorry, what areyou on about?
And he said well, all the tagsthat are added benefit the apps,
but where's the benefit for thehosts?
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Oh well, that's an interesting viewpoint, isn't it?
Yes, I mean, all of the tagsbenefit the listener, if we're
going to be strictly accurate.
So either the listener or thecreator.
But yes, I mean, you know, Isuppose everything leans on
value for value and or ratherstreaming payments.

(08:19):
And so, you know, a host,obviously, as Todd has done can
take, you know, a percentage ofthat streaming payment, you know
, if they want to.
But I think, for everything else, I mean, why should hosts be
interested?
Well, because other hosts willbe doing it and people will

(08:40):
leave your host if you're notsupporting something that other
hosts do.
So I suppose that that's onereason why and the other reason,
you know and it's tied up withthe whole thing that Buzzsprout
keeps on talking about is itshould make it easier to keep
podcasting, because you've gotmore of these features available

(09:01):
to you.
Crossout comments is an obviousone that will make it much more
advantageous to keep podcasting, because you can actually see
what your audience is saying.
So that's an obvious one, if aslightly complicated one to
actually achieve, becausenobody's really achieved that
yet so far.
But there are plenty of otherexamples in there, as well, I

(09:40):
guess.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
And then there's those that have no tag, and I'd
say Buzzsprout's somewhere inthe middle, captivate as well,
and I think it was Kevin Finnwho said that every tag they add
adds load to the actual RSSfeed and therefore they have to
consider very carefully whichones they add.
And I think what is missing andit's something that I think I'm

(10:03):
having to review as an appdeveloper is what do we do?
So the verified tag is veryimportant because if we can
verify easily through amechanism like Apple have just
enabled, then we can buildrelationships with hosts and we
can give them their first partydata back from the hosts that we

(10:25):
see that they're currentlyhosting.
So, for example, this show, forexample, we could give the data
back to Buzzsprout that theycould integrate into their
analytics if they wanted.
So I think there has to be alittle bit more of a quid pro
quo.
I did get stopped in my trackswhen this host told me well,
what's in it for me?
And I went actually, yeah, letme think about it, because we're

(10:46):
asking to put engineering costin place, we're asking you to
put extra load on the RSS feed,which is a cost to you, and then
actually the first party datavalue comes to the apps, which
is, you know, the location dataor the transcript where we can
then interrogate that or we cando other things, and the
transcript where we can theninterrogate that or we can do

(11:06):
other things.
And so he was asking genuinely,why don't we get any value back
?
And I just said, hmm, I'llraise the question.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that's an interestingpoint, isn't it?
Doubtless, adam and Dave arechomping at the bit to give an
answer, and doubtless you'llhear that in the Podcasting 2.0
podcast and doubtless you'llhear that in the Podcasting 2.0
podcast available wherever yougot this one.
So, yes, Interesting.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Moving on, then Podimo out of Denmark, lovely
company that they are, have somebig news to share with everyone
.
What was it, James?

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yes, they do.
Fantastic news, and I mean,quite apart from anything else,
that company which sells accessto its podcast.
It's a podcast subscriptioncompany.
It also does audio books aswell.
They said that they wereprofitable in three of their
markets.
They operate in Europe and inLatin America.

(12:00):
But you spoke to the CEO,morten Strunger, and you started
off by asking why was it a goodday, and does your good news
have something to do with amillion?

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, we've announced today that we've hit the
milestone of one million payingsubscribers, so that's pretty
awesome, I would say.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Yeah, that is pretty awesome.
I mean, Podimo was only startedin 2019.
So we're talking of a veryrapid six year growth.
So tell me more about the waythat users use Podimo and how
they subscribe to Podimo.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
Yeah, I mean we launched just over five years
ago as a subscription service inDenmark and today we're live in
seven markets in total andessentially our proposition has
evolved.
But if you zoom in, it's asubscription service around
seven eight euros per month andthen you get unlimited access to
exclusive podcasts that youthen also consume through our

(12:57):
own app and the creator side,but also the app experience,
which we put a lot of effortinto building out in terms of
helping discovery, bringingcreators and listeners closer to
each other through communityfeatures and so forth.
I think we've evolved since thenin terms of our model has
changed somewhat that we don'tjust have our subscription

(13:17):
service.
We actually own studios in alot of the markets we're in and
we also own the advertisingsales side.
So we have a lot of our contentthat lives on the open rss
broadly available to buildlistenerships and reach, and
then we monetize that contentthrough advertising.
And then we also, next to that,have our subscription business

(13:38):
where we gradually bring overthe most loyal audience towards
our subscription service.
So we've, over the of years,we've actually invested heavily,
both through acquiringproduction companies, through
acquiring ad sales and seasonnetworks, in order to become an
even better partner for creatorsin terms of not just helping
them monetize through asubscription, but also now being

(13:58):
able to maximize their reachand maximize their monetization
with both advertising andsubscription.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
So the content creators you have generally are
local language content creators,right, rather than the generic
UK, us type ones that we'd see.
So these are exclusive toPodimo.
You talked about them beingopen in the RSS mode so
available to every app, but thenyou bring them back into the

(14:26):
platform and make them asubscription, so they're
exclusive just to your platformwhen they're in that
subscription.
Do you also have shows that aretotally exclusive, that you
never let out into the open RSSmarketplace?

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yeah, it's a combination.
It depends on the content typeand the show.
So some shows we have fullybehind our paywall, some shows
we window out onto the open RSS.
So say documentaries forexample, you might get the first
couple of episodes availablebroadly, but if you want to
listen to the full thingstraight away, then you have to
sign up for Podimo.
And then we also do, asmentioned, backwindowing, so

(15:01):
content that we first release onpotimo and then we window it
out to the open rss and then weactually, through our network,
have shows that fully live onthe open rss and not on potimo,
because that's the best thingfor that show, that it's not
suited for subscription and it'sa better cater to in terms of
building listenership andmonetization on the open rss.

(15:21):
So it's actually a combination.
Um, could see it a bit morelike a.
Essentially it's a freemiummodel, right?
Like you, instead of just usingour own app, we use the reach
of other platforms to buildlistenership and then we
monetize through advertising andthen we gradually bring a
certain share of that audienceback to Podium or the
subscription side of thebusiness.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
Nice.

Speaker 4 (15:41):
So let's talk about two things that are hot in terms
of engaging and a lot of usersprefer to watch video, but

(16:10):
obviously it hasn't beaten thepower of audio and there's still
a lot of audio listening.
I think what's exciting for uswith video is that suddenly you
go from consuming the contentwith your phone in your pocket
to having your phone in front ofyou.
That plays really well togetherwith our community features.
So on our own platform we havea lot of community features

(16:32):
where creators can ask thelisteners questions.
Listeners they can answer, theycan engage in commenting, they
can do emojis as you listenthrough and the feelings that
are created and, obviously,having your phone in your hand,
and then we see a lot moreengagement on these community
features, as we call it, whichis great to see as well.
So there are many reasons forus doing video.

(16:53):
But it's not just about, forsome listeners it's the
preferred medium to consume in,but it's also because it unlocks
a lot of other use patterns onour platform as well, which is
great to see.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
So do you also do live video?
So one of the things thatYouTube does very well is having
podcasters or videocasters dolive video and then have content
, communication with their fanscoming straight back with super
chats.
Is that something that Podimodoes as well?

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, we do, we have started to test it and it is
something we're looking intoscaling more.
But we have done a number oftests on Exactly Live and we
have a very important show inDenmark, for example, that is
live every Friday where you canwatch it live as well.
And obviously I mean, for somecontent it doesn't make sense
where the editing part of itisn't important as well, but for

(17:44):
other content types it makessense to engage closer with the
listeners and co-create thecontent together with the
listeners, as you recall.
So it's definitely it's notgoing to be a shift where
suddenly everything is live,right, but I think it is
interesting for us to see thatthe medium is evolving, right,
both with video, with live, butalso with these kind of
community feeds.
Right, that it's becoming adifferent and a new medium that

(18:05):
expands the value that we cancreate to both creators but also
to listeners, right.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
So what markets are you in?
Remind me, and then whatmarkets are you going to be in
in 25?

Speaker 4 (18:14):
So far we're in seven markets.
So we're in Denmark, norway,finland, we're in the
Netherlands, we're in Germany,spain and then, lastly, mexico.
So there's still a lot ofgrowth to capture in the markets
we're in.
So both in terms of theexisting verticals that we're
catering to in terms of content,but there's also a lot of new
verticals that we don't have onour platform today that can

(18:34):
unlock a bigger audience and abigger growth potential for
Podimo.
So we'll continue to investheavily into the existing
markets.
We're actually increasinginvestments in those markets,
but then, late this year, we'rebeginning to look towards
expanding into new territoriesagain can't say which yet, but
excited that we're beginning toexpand again.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
You mentioned expanding slightly in content,
so you're talking aboutpodcasting, you're talking about
video, talking about books, tv.
The two that are missing inthere are music and live events
and ticketing within that.
Is that within your remit to gointo those areas as well?

Speaker 4 (19:12):
Music is not on the roadmap, but live shows is
something that we're alreadydoing and that we're beginning
to create more structure around.
We have sold out theatersacross multiples of our markets
and some of the shows areselling out fully within hours
after announcing live shows.
So piggybacking on that strongcommitment and that relationship

(19:32):
between the listeners andcreators for live shows is
definitely very meaningful.
I think when I talk about moreverticals, it's more about
beginning to bring more contenttypes to a platform, such as, if
you're taking example, it couldbe sports, for example.
We don't have a lot of sportson our platform, so beginning to
invest into those verticals sothat we open up and talk to new
audiences.

(19:52):
Fiction is a category that Ihave a strong belief in.
I mean, fiction don't exist inshort form, really right.
Why doesn't it?
I mean we spend an enormousamount of time consuming fiction
when we turn on the TV or weopen a book right, but it's
because the ecosystem hasn'tbeen in place to allow for
investments into those kind ofcontent verticals.
Kit content is something thatwe're also looking into.
So there's a lot of verticalsthat haven't found their way

(20:15):
into short form audio andpodcasting that I think we can
help bring to market as well.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Will you be on the acquisition hunt?
Are you going to be goingacquiring more companies?

Speaker 4 (20:24):
I think we're very proactive in that and actually
saying yes we are.
It is part of our core strategyto do more M&A and it's fully
aligned with our board and ourinvestors as well.
We've done two acquisitionslast year that have worked out
really well and are trying toidentify more acquisitions, both
in the markets we're already in, but also for launching new
markets.
It might make sense to get toscale faster through

(20:47):
acquisitions.
So both technology acquisitionswithin the field, but primarily
production companies, ip and adnetworks is something that
we're looking very much into.
So consolidation and M&A isdefinitely part of our growth
strategy as well.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
What is the one barrier that you think?
Oh my God, if I could get ridof this, this would accelerate
Polymo.
What is it that you think youcould change?
That would actually increasethe growth of Podomay.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Actually, we have changed a lot since we started.
I think when we launched, wejust had our subscription
service and a paywall service,right.
That is more costly and takes alonger time to jumpstart such a
model, right.
So what we have evolved intonow, where we have studios and
we have content live acrossmultiple platforms, maximizing
the reach for creators andmaximizing the monetization,

(21:33):
that model is actually workingreally well and that's what
we're scaling now.
We did that through theacquisition in the Netherlands
last year of Tony, next to theacquisition we already made, and
we're looking to do furtheracquisitions and also building
out organically what we callPodimo Studios, essentially.
So we are already doubling downon the learnings we have and
which is a more efficient growthmodel for us.

(21:55):
I think where we've also madeprogress is on the profitability
side, which is a barrier, right.
If you want to grow faster,then you need capital to grow
and to be able to attractcapital, you need to show not
just growth.
You need to show there's aclear path to profitability and
that you're actually operating asustainable business model, and
there we've made significantprogress as well.
We have three markets that arefully profitable, cash flow

(22:16):
positive as well, and have twomore markets looking to turn
profitable this year.
So in an industry that's soearly on and that we're still
growing as we're growing, butalso, at the same time,
demonstrating big steps towardsprofitability, at the same time
demonstrating big steps towardsprofitability, that's a good
cocktail to be able to also goout and get more capital on

(22:37):
board so we can accelerate ourgrowth even more and expansion
as well.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Morten, congratulations.
One million, it's a massiveachievement, well done.

Speaker 4 (22:43):
It feels really good.
At least it's really good.
Thanks a lot.

Speaker 2 (22:46):
The Pod News Weekly Review with Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Morten Strunke from Podimo, and fascinating looking
at the differences between theEuropean podcast market, where
Podimo clearly doing very wellin terms of paid for podcasts,
and there was some data not solong ago out of Sweden which
seemed to show that one in 10podcast listeners are paying for
a podcast subscription, which Ithought was really interesting

(23:17):
as well.
So, yes, very good, his companyseems to be doing very well.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah, I love this model, I think.
I mean they're a host, they'rean app.
They are doing freemiumpodcasts.
They're doing paid podcasts.
They're doing multiemiumpodcasts.
They're doing paid podcasts.
They're doing multi-language.
They've got their ownadvertising studios.
They've got their Podimo studiofor creating unique content.
I think you know they've gotthe recipe.
Now, if you listen to Morton,you know we're profitable here

(23:45):
and you can hear in his voicethey're going back for money,
they're going back to the VCsand they're going to get a ton
more money.
They raised 75 million firsttime round, which is a truckload
of money, and I think they'regoing to go and raise a bigger
amount now.
This is quite exciting.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
They're doing very well and it's great to be in a
position where you can go backto your investors and go look,
we're already making money inthese markets already.
Let's have some more money sothat we can launch into
additional ones.
Of course, the big nuts tocrack is the UK, the US, frankly

(24:21):
, any English speaking you knowany English speaking market, so
any of those will be reallyinteresting to see if they move
into.
But yeah, it's doing great gunsand really difficult if you're
launching in lots of differentmarkets that speak lots of
different languages as well.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
There's a question I really didn't ask you.
Last week we talked aboutWondery pulling out of Mexico
and I didn't really say why.
I mean, has the Mexican markettanked or something?
Because one of the big marketsfor Podimo is Mexico, one of the
big markets for RSScom isMexico.
So why is Wondery pulling outof Mexico?

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, a great question.
My suspicion is that Wondery isjust wanting to focus, and I
think if you are going to launchin a big country like Mexico,
you need to have the focus toactually make that work.
And either you've got themanagement focus and you don't
mind spending one day out offive on Mexico, which is still a

(25:28):
relatively small market, or youdon't.
But I think that that'sprobably one of the reasons why.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Now related to this, I heard an interview this week
with the CEO, Jack Conte, fromPatreon.
He was on the Colin and Samirshow and I'm not being
hyperbolic I think this ispossibly the best podcast
interview I've heard in the lastcouple of years about the
future of podcasting and the wayyou make revenue.

(25:58):
It was just minute after minutewith information that I thought
.
I'm in this industry and yetI'm still learning constantly
through this interview and Ithink I've heard about it four
times so far.
It's that good.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, you sent me a message on Signal yesterday.
I did, James.
This is possibly the bestepisode of a podcast I've ever
heard on the subject ofpodcasting and revenue
generation.
There you go.
Link to truefansfm.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
Well, I had to give you some way of listening to it?
You know, obviously otherpodcast apps wouldn't have had
it by then.
You know, that's.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Quite right, but no, it is on my list.
Mr Sethi, it's on my list.

Speaker 3 (26:39):
Anyway, I highly recommend it to everyone else as
well.
Now YouTube.
You know, the old expression isfirst they ignore you, then
they laugh at you, then theyfight you and then you win.
That was a Gandhi expression,and it looks like YouTube may be
winning, james, because they'veannounced that they have one
billion people watching podcastsevery month, and the word watch

(26:59):
was the critical word that Isort of picked up on.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Yes, so YouTube say more than one billion active
viewers of podcast content onYouTube in January.
So more than 1 billion.
So let's put that into context.
Spotify when I saw Spotifycrowing how many listeners they
had, they were talking about 120million.

(27:25):
That is a tenth of the size ofYouTube.
A tenth of the size of YouTube.
So Spotify talking about 120million, if the data is correct.
Apple Podcasts is less thanthat.
So it's less than 120 million.

(27:45):
So that is a big number fromYouTube.
Now, worth remembering, though alistener to a second of podcast
content on YouTube, even ifit's just been automatically
played to them and YouTube doesan awful lot of automatic plays,
unless you turn it off even ifyou listen to a second of
podcast content or watch asecond of podcast content, you
will automatically be a podcastuser on that platform.

(28:09):
So just bear that in mind.
That reach doesn't necessarilytranslate to time spent, but it
does, though you know, goalongside some of Edison
Research's figures that we saw.
I was curious as to what apodcast was.
Are you curious as to what apodcast is in this data?

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Well, we're not the only ones.
Hernan Lopez did say that.
Do you know how?
Youtube defined a podcast forthis metric, and?

Speaker 1 (28:40):
I don't know of that either.
Oh, go on, then I do.
I asked and a YouTubespokesperson told me that the
company follows the lead ofcreators marking a playlist as a
podcast when they upload.
So basically, if you've tickedthat box that says this is a
podcast, then you now count interms of podcasts.
Now I went to have a look atthe YouTube podcast's homepage

(29:03):
in the US because I thought,well, that might be interesting,
it might be worthwhile taking apeek at, it might be worthwhile

(29:25):
taking a peek at.
So on the YouTube podcasthomepage in the US, there is NBC
Nightly News.
That's a full TV news show.
There's Maybe that's ABC, butanyway one of those.
If you just watch a little bitof that on YouTube, then that
counts as a podcast, which isweird.
But then you have a look andyou go well, there are actually
audio podcasts for both NBCNightly News and PBS NewsHour as

(29:48):
well, and similarly here inAustralia, if you have a look at
Australia's podcast's homepage,there are individual news
stories from Seven News whichyou can watch, and they're in a
YouTube playlist called SevenNews Just In, which is marked as
a podcast, and there is also aSeven News Just In audio podcast
as well.
So what is a podcast.

(30:09):
It begins to get very, verycomplicated, but I think you
know, at the end of the day,whatever a creator says is a
podcast is what YouTube ismeasuring here, and it's still
pretty big.
I have to say YouTube's blogpost was authored by a guy
called Tim Katz.
I had never heard of Tim Katz.

(30:31):
Had you heard of Tim Katzbefore?

Speaker 3 (30:34):
No, but he seems someone who's become fairly
senior.

Speaker 1 (30:37):
Doesn't he?
So he describes himself as VPPartnerships Podcasts on that
blog post and I went to checkand that is the first time he
has ever used that job title.
So if you go onto LinkedIn,he's director, head of sports
and news, so not podcasts.
Back in 2023, he wasinterviewed as director and

(31:00):
global head of responsibilityand in 2024, he was global
director of responsibility andleader for the Canada and Latin
America region.
So he seems to be a jack of alltrades and has given himself a
title of VP PartnershipsPodcasts for this particular
post.
So it's just, you know, typicallarge organisation.

(31:22):
You know, we'll just front someproduct manager, you know.
But clearly, you know, tim Katz, you know, has not got a
podcast background.
I'm peculiar as to why itwasn't Kai Chuck, who is head of
podcasts and has been head ofpodcasts for the last two and a
half years, why it wasn't himblogging about this.
But no, he was interviewed inBloomberg.

(31:45):
Ashley Carman ended upinterviewing him and he started
talking about, you know, YouTubepodcasts.
On YouTube, he said, existed,but it was a matter of us
pouring some gas on it to get itto move a little bit more.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
So yeah, he said he reminds me of my days in
corporate world.
He's probably seen that thegrowing part of YouTube is
podcasting.
Therefore, move and getyourself involved.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Move over there.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
Yes, oh yeah, no, I mean, I've seen so many
corporate colleagues in the past.
Oh, where's the growth withinthe company?
Get yourself in that team fast,yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
No, indeed, indeed.
Well, there's been somereaction from the industry.
Justin Jackson from Transistorbelieves that the podcast
industry is fundamentallymisdiagnosing YouTube's role in
consumers' lives andoverestimating the benefits
it'll get from the platform.
Why don't you tell us what youreally think?
Justin Wondery's founder,hernán López, he's a Canadian.

(32:42):
He doesn't say nasty things, no, exactly, he's awfully polite.
Polite people yes, wondery'sfounder Hernán López people yes,
wondery's founder Hernan Lopezsuggested to keep in mind the
bigger picture, and I love thisas a stat.
So YouTube, in this release,also repeated their stat that

(33:03):
400 million monthly hours ofpodcast watching on TV sets
happened.
400 million monthly hoursSounds like a lot.
No, that's against 30 billionhours of YouTube spent on TV
sets.
So 30 billion hours, only 400million of those were podcast
watching, but it's a weird thing, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (33:25):
I've never thought about turning on my TV to listen
to a podcast.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
No Well, I mean me neither, and you know, yeah, I'm
very aware that there's a lotof great shows on there that are
made in video, but why, youknow?
Why would I watch it Either.
Why would I watch the video.
Or, with the case of NBCnightly news, why would I?
Why would I listen to the audioonly?

(33:48):
I mean, that's bizarre.
So you know, justin Jacksonpouring a little bit of cold
water on it, hernan Lopezpouring a little bit of cold
water on it, and then, as youmay have noticed, in the Pod
News newsletter yesterday Iquote myself because, obviously,
why not?
I was speaking at the podcastshow in London back in 2023.

(34:09):
And I did say on stage at thatpoint that if YouTube is the
only platform out there, it willkill almost every part of the
value chain within the podcastindustry.
It'll kill hosting companies,it'll kill dynamic ad insertion
tools, analytics companies and,yes, podcast apps, mr Sethi.
So we just need to be careful.

(34:30):
What we wish for, right, that'sit Block.
I'm blocking them.
So, yeah, but you know, I meana fascinating number that only
YouTube could have produced, andI mean significantly bigger
than Apple, although what Iwould say is I think Apple is
still bigger in terms of totaldownloads of podcasts, Because I

(34:55):
think that, actually, if youwere to have a look at all of
the individual time spent with apodcast, apple is probably
still up top, and there's somedata again from PodTrack back in
2023 that we linked to, which Ithink really shows how big
Apple is in comparison toeverybody else.

(35:16):
So, yeah, just worthwhilebearing that in mind too.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
So, james, moving on, then you've got a really
interesting interview with a guycalled Jay Natlis.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yes, I do.
Yeah, he's from ColemanInsights.
Now Coleman Insights have beenadvertising their Pod Predictor
in the Pod news newsletter forthe last couple of months and
you know how sometimes it iswhen you take a look at some
advertising and you go whatactually is that?
So I thought I would check inwith Jay and find out a little

(35:51):
bit more about their tool.
It tests your show basicallybefore it launches.
So if you're going to throw abunch of money at a new podcast,
then it will actually test andsee whether or not you should
have one host or three, or testand see whether or not you
should have music in there orwhat a good title is.

(36:11):
It sounds like a good idea.
So I called Jay and I said tellme a bit more about
Podpredictor.

Speaker 5 (36:20):
Podpredictor is essentially A-B testing for
podcasts and the idea behind itis you know, before you go and
invest lots of time and energyand money into podcasts.
We know that a lot of times,podcasters are wrestling with

(36:40):
lots of different ideas, right,it's not like one idea comes out
of the chute and that's whatit's going to be.
There's a lot of things thatare thrown up against a wall and
brainstorming.
That happens and what titlewould be good and how should we
pitch it.
And that's what pod predictoris all about is, before you
launch it it's meant to bepre-launch and test a couple of

(37:00):
concepts against each other.
The best way that it works iswhen it's the same show but
different concepts of the sameshow, right?
Um, and so, in other words,you've got a, you've got a news
podcast and two different titles, two different ways of pitching
it.
We test it with 500 podcastconsumers of the US and and then
analyze the results in manydifferent ways.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
So I mean, the show might cost, you know, tens of
thousands of dollars to make, ifit's a big show, but it makes
sense, I think, first to throwthe idea in front of people,
particularly different types ofpeople, different ethnicities,
different ages, just to see whatsticks right.

Speaker 5 (37:40):
Exactly.
And so you know we're lookingat it overall.
We're also looking at itagainst other podcast concepts.
Ideally that works when it'sfans of the same category, right
?
So we would, you know, we likelike to.
When we do a pod predictor, ifwe're testing comedy concepts,
for example, it's best if you doit with comedy fans, right?
That have more propensity to beinterested in it, for sure.

(38:02):
And then you're looking at itoverall.
How do they test against eachother?
How do they rank against otherconcepts, against other concepts
?
But then also, as you point out, how does it rate by age,
gender, ethnicity?
We're also looking at fans of.
You know, we're looking atcategory, andrew, so you might
be surprised, for so I think, inpart, it's a it's strategic for

(38:23):
you to know which one is moreappealing, but it's also
strategic from a marketingstandpoint, right, strategic
from a marketing standpoint,right?
So you have a good idea of Iknow that fans of this
particular concept are also fansof podcasts in this category,
right?
So maybe as part of my strategy, I should go and look to be
guests on podcasts in thiscategory, or I should look to

(38:45):
advertise in this particularcategory.
So it serves both of thosepurposes.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Sounds really clever and do you have any examples of
some of the ideas that you havetaken in front of audiences and
something?
Maybe that might have surprisedyou a little bit?

Speaker 5 (39:01):
Yeah, a number of different things, for sure, but
I'll give you a couple ofexamples.
One is there is a this was ahealth and wellness show that
was was about plastic surgery,and the this was one where they
had a couple of different namesof the show.
One of them was more specificto the client themselves.

(39:25):
So so the brand was about them.
And, you know, it was aninteresting litmus test because,
well, how well known was thatbrand?
And certainly nationwide, itwasn't really that well known
and the way they were pitchingit was was focused on their own
doctors, naming people that,again, may not have real brand

(39:48):
recognition of a small circle oftheir current base.
And as part of that, I said,well, because I'm willing to
help as part of that process,right, you don't have to
necessarily, if you want someguidance as to, well, what are
some other good concepts to test, happy to be part of that.
And that was the case in thisone right when there was a

(40:10):
concept that we tested againstthat.
That was a little bit that.
And that was the case in thisone right when there was a
concept that we tested againstthat.
That was a little bit broaderand it was more about what it
was actually about rather thanactually about their brand.
And you know, and they wereable to discover that that other
concept tested better.
They were able to see, I think,a couple of surprising things,

(40:31):
but they were able to see agethink, a couple of surprising
things, but they were able tosee age-wise.
You know where is thewheelhouse of this particular
concept.
So you know, those are somelearnings of that.
There was another one that wedid for podcast radio.
That was an interesting, uniqueone, right where they were
actually trying to determine andthey made these results public.

(40:51):
They were interested indetermining, based on the pitch
of podcast radio and what it is,how does that appeal to radio
listeners in the United States?
So that was not a typical usageof PodPredictor, but it was
essentially the same kind ofmethodology just done in a bit
of a different way.
And that's really one of thebeauties of PodPredictor and

(41:13):
almost every study we do is itcan be customized and tweaked
based on the strategic goals.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
So you can tweak it for format, or you can tweak it
for name of the show, or you cantweak it for all kinds of
things like that, I guess.

Speaker 5 (41:28):
Yeah, you can also test.
It's almost unlimited right.
Like, if you want to test, forexample, uh, show art against
each other, you could do that.
Um, if you wanted to testmarketing, other marketing
messages, you could do that.
Um, trailers, I mean.
I think trailers is a greatusage case too, uh is, if you
wanted to test differenttrailers, you can.

(41:49):
And that's really a lot of thestuff that we do at Coleman.
You know we're brand andcontent people.
Right, we've been doing brandand content work for media
brands for 45 years.
And in the podcasting space,that's really something that
we're trying to get podcastersto focus on is don't just look
at those numbers, but look atyour brand and how you can build

(42:11):
the brand and how can you makecontent that isn't just good,
but content that is trulyappealing to that target
audience but it's also buildingyour brand and is in sync with
your brand's expectations at thesame time.
And so there's lots of ways togo about that and lots of ways
that we do that, whether it bein the moment content testing,
whether it's larger scalestudies that really dig into

(42:32):
target audiences and their usageand perceptions and habits, and
then it's things likePodPredictor, which really was
designed to be something thatyou know.
Even the independent creatorthat, uh, that isn't doesn't

(42:53):
necessarily have a big networkbehind them, can utilize it.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
I guess I hadn't considered, of course, that um
people who are making shows willprobably include this sort of
idea in their pitch.
Um to the client to basicallysay we will test this stuff
before we make it for you.

Speaker 5 (43:11):
Yeah, and you know, the biggest interest level in
the conversations by far hascome from agencies.
Editors, right, it's peoplethat work with a lot of
different podcasts and that'stheir zone, that's their
wheelhouse and they're helpingthese podcasters right from
start to publication and so, aspart of that, they're taking

(43:34):
them through this launch.
You know a lot of them have alaunch package, right, and
they're taking them through thatand they're it's everything
from coming up with the conceptsto the editing, to sometimes,
their SEO and digital marketingand and all of it.
And so they're looking at podpredictor and saying, okay, how
can I offer this as a service tomy clients as part of it?

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Yeah, Now I know Coleman Insights, as many people
do, from the work that you doin terms of radio.
How much is podcasting sort ofchanging that?
Are you doing an awful lot morepodcasting stuff now?

Speaker 5 (44:10):
I mean it still remains, sure, because
historically we do so much workin radio.
But the podcasting I thinkwe've been at for about probably
six or seven years now and it'sbeen a nice progressive growth
and the clients are across theboard.
It's not one set and it'sinteresting right Like.

(44:31):
There, for example, is ahosting platform that was really
interested in learning abouttheir user persona and so, when
it was going through a processof redesigning the website and
thinking about what themarketing messages are and who
that user is and how to reachthem, that was a study that we

(44:52):
were able to do and that type ofstudy can be very effective.
For you know, we've done astudy like that for a network.
We've done a study like thatfor a branded podcast where it's
trying to really understand whois my target consumer.
And I think in branded inparticular, that's a really
interesting area, because Iwrote a blog about this recently

(45:14):
is that you're not justthinking about putting out a
podcast and making sure thecontent is great, but you're
talking about a brand thatprobably is pretty well known
and you've got to make sure thatyou're thinking about that
really strategically.
And I sometimes worry aboutwith branded podcasts that they

(45:34):
do a podcast because they thinkthey have to.
But right, but you know, go doa podcast.
I think everyone says we shoulddo a podcast, let's make it
part of our marketing plan, butthe reality is it should be
treated with the same delicatecare that they would any other
campaign that they do.
And if you're going to put, ifyou're really going to invest in

(45:54):
all your other marketing, whywouldn't you do the same thing
and understand, you know, thebest strategic direction for
your branded podcast?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
So I guess you've got a website to find out more
about PodPredictor.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
We do.
The website iscolemaninsightscom and you can
learn about Podpredictor thereand also other types of research
that we do for podcasters.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Very cool, and are you talking at Evolutions in
Chicago in a couple of weeks?

Speaker 5 (46:22):
Yes, I am, and actually we'll be doing one of
the keynote presentations of afollow-up to a study that we
debuted at Podcast Movement in2020, late 2023.
So this is about that.
One was called the new rules ofpodcasting on YouTube, and so

(46:43):
we're going to, you know, atthat time it's really funny,
james, to think about the factthat I went back and looked at
this to make sure I wasn't crazythat particular podcast
movement had one session focusedon video podcasting and it was
ours.
And then of course, last yearthere was 15, and now everyone's
got a track and everything else.
So I think it's going to beinteresting to see, because

(47:06):
we're going at it at a fewdifferent angles.
I think last time the study wasreally focused on understanding
where video plays in the fullfunnel.
This time we're going to probein a much deeper way video
podcasting but we're also doingit from the creator side, which
I think is going to be aninteresting angle, because we

(47:27):
want to not just see howconsumers' habits have changed
over the last year and a half,but I also want to see how
creators are wrestling with this, because there's so much for
them to think about and whetheror not it's worthwhile and
whether or not the investment oftime and money is worth it and
where should I put it and is itjust a trend or is it here to

(47:48):
stay?
All these things, and that'sgoing to be part of this
presentation and study which I'mexcited about.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Jay, thank you so much for your time.
I appreciate it today.

Speaker 5 (47:56):
Thank you, james, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Jay Naklis from Coleman Insights talking about
Pod Predictor and, as you justheard, he will be at Evolutions
in Chicago talking about YouTubeand talking about more stuff
about that, so that'll be athrill.
What we should do, sam, is weshould have a little jingle that
says and now more news aboutYouTube, oh great.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
Yeah, exactly, I was going to say we've got one for
Spotify and we need one for.
YouTube.
Yes, absolutely.
I was going to say that thatinterview with Jay was
interesting because I think wereported many months ago that
Flight Studio Dyer of the CEOuse a predictor tool as well.
In a very similar way, theyhave a panel of people who

(48:42):
listen to the long form of theshow before it goes out and then
they give feedback using thespace bar and visual indicators
to say where they found the showinteresting, that's where they
clip it all up and then that'show they put it out Again.
I think it's very interestingthat people are building tools
to do pre-testing before launch.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, no, indeed.
And you know, I mean they knowColeman Insights know.
You know, as I said, they'veworked in the radio business.
They know an awful lot aboutthis kind of stuff, so they're
very good at testing formats andthings, and so you know why
wouldn't they jump into thepodcast space?
But they've been in that spacefor a number of years now and

(49:23):
they seem to do that very well.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Time to whiz around the world.
James Off to Sweden first.
What's happening there?

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Yes, so Sweden.
Well, guess what?
Podcasting is continuing togrow.
Who knew?

Speaker 4 (49:36):
It's dark, it's cold.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
It's not surprising.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
It gets nice there.
It gets nice there.
I had a very good time therewhen I was there in November.
But yes, according to new datafrom Dargan's media, acast is
very big.
Swedish radio obviously verybig.
It's the big public servicebroadcaster there.
Podspace is the podcast hostingcompany which is growing

(50:03):
fastest.
It's up 23% year on year.
I was sent this by a man who Ithen discovered is an advisor to
Podspace, so therefore, ofcourse, they would highlight
that, wouldn't they?

Speaker 3 (50:15):
Doing his job.
Doing his job.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
But Podspace was one of the two non-US podcast
hosting companies that was inApple's announcement as well,
which I thought was interesting.
The other one, osha.
So yes, so Sweden, everythingis going gangbusters, which is
nice.
Audiochuck things going on inthe US.

(50:44):
Audiochuck has received $40million in investment from the
Chernin Group.
The company is already turningprofit profit of $45 million
last year.
You kind of wonder why theywant $40 million in investment
if they've already just made $45million last year.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
It's the VC game, james.
Yeah, you play the VC game.
So you go, you showprofitability, you set a value
for the company.
You then go and get investmentto ratify that value.
So now the value is, I don'tknow, 150 million.
And then you go ah right, nowthat the company is worth 150
million because we've got a 40million investment, let's go and

(51:20):
raise another round again.
Now it's 300 million.
Let's do the IPO Now it's halfa billion.
Oh look, we're all happy andthe investors take their money
out.
And then everyone is all happyand rosy and goes home nice it's
a game.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
It's a game, yes.
Well, there you go, it's uh.
Yes, um, I mean, ashley islooking to expand her staff to
130.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Um, I know, which is uh, which is uh, quite a thing
now, I don't really know thisguy, dan bongino, but I I
clearly hear from many otherpeople that he's quite famous
but he's joining Donald Trump todo something he is.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
He's joining Donald Trump, so Dan Bongino had Donald
Trump on his podcast before theelection.
It's a pretty big deal in thathe does a show which does
relatively well 322,000downloads per episode, according
to one tool that I have accessto.
He's also on American TalkRadio as a replacement for Rush

(52:20):
Limbaugh.
Rush Limbaugh was a massive,great, big star and he was the
replacement that quite a lot ofpeople took.
Anyway, he has been named theDeputy Director of the FBI.

Speaker 3 (52:35):
Yes, I can see the skill set transferring over
amazingly well.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Yes, yes, I mean being fair, he's got a little
bit of history.
That isn't just talking infront of a microphone and being
quite sweary.
He does have a little bit ofhistory.
I think he was a Navy SEAL andI think he was involved in some
protection thing and blah, blahblah.
But anyway, he's now the DeputyDirector of the FBI.
On a totally unrelated note,here's a quick track from the

(53:03):
70s by the Specials.

Speaker 5 (53:05):
The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Ah, that was nice, wasn't it Right?
Let's move on.
Iab Australia Ooh, that's fromdown my way.
They've published the audioadvertising State of the Nation
2025.
Good news for podcasting, butactually very good news for
podcasting, and even thoughcommercial radio and audio have

(53:33):
welcomed it here, you canimagine that they've welcomed it
with gritted teeth, because 79%of agencies say that they will
spend more on podcastadvertising this year, and that
is more than advertising withstreaming radio or streaming
music.
So basically, podcasting iswinning in terms of the budget.
So hurrah for podcasting iswhat I say.

(53:55):
There was a big IAB audioconference this week in Sydney.
There'll be a big IAB audioconference next week in
Melbourne.
I'm going to neither of them,but there we are.
But, yeah, they seem to be atleast releasing quite a lot of
useful data for the industry,which is a good thing.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
Now one of the things you predicted in the UK, james,
has come true.
What is it?

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Yes, the BBC is to close BBC Sounds, that's its
music radio podcast app forinternational users.
So you can now get BBC podcastson the bbccom app and on the
international website, but youwill be losing, if you haven't
lost them already.

(54:42):
You will be losing the BBC'sdomestic music radio stations.
So you'll get World Service andRadio 4, but you won't get any
of the other music services andyou won't get any local radio,
which I believe is upsettingquite a lot of people.
So, yeah, that's no longergoing to be available outside of
the UK.

(55:02):
Probably makes quite a lot ofsense, unfortunately, because
the BBC can't make any money outof that without all of a sudden
getting liable for all of themusic rights which they simply
can't afford and can't deal withanyway.
So I think all of that isinteresting.
But yes, I said that this wouldhappen in November.
I genuinely did not know thatthis was the plan, but it turns

(55:25):
out it was the plan and yes, andso they are, and so I have
downloaded the BBC Sounds app.
Interesting.
They did say one interestingthing in that release which they
did tell me under embargo acouple of weeks prior, but
obviously I couldn't.
I couldn't say anything.
They said in the release thatBBC Sounds will continue to work

(55:46):
for people who live in the UKwho go on holiday temporarily.
How Well, how Exactly?
So I think what's going tohappen there is.
The first thing that they'll dois they will take BBC Sounds
out of all of the app storesoutside of the UK so that we
can't install it All right.
So that's a good first step.

(56:07):
Then, I suspect what they willdo with the audio links is that
they will actually tie it intoyour BBCcom ID, so you will have
to log in, as you do at themoment, to listen to that
particular station, and so Isuspect that that's what's going
to happen.

(56:27):
So that will mean that BBCRadio essentially dies for
anybody with an internet radiodevice or a smart speaker or any
of that sort of thing.
But I really don't know.
I mean, that's just a guess,but I thought it was an
interesting little bit ofinformation there that BBC

(56:47):
Sounds will continue to work foryou if you go on holiday
outside of the UK temporarily.
So yeah, there's a thing.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
I bet it still works with my VPN, even if I didn't do
that.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
I absolutely bet that it'll continue working with a
VPN.
Certainly iPlayer does, whichis their TV app.
You have to.
You know you have to choose aVPN relatively carefully, but
you can get it to work.
So, yeah, I'm absolutely surethat if you have a VPN, it'll
continue to work.
But on the other side thenthat's the customer or the

(57:23):
listener bypassing somebodyelse's security.
So I think that they arerelatively safe on that.
But I think you know, as withall of these things VPNs or DRM,
you know, rights management orany of that stuff it's a tax on
the un-techie and just stopsthem from doing things that if

(57:47):
you're techie enough, you knowhow to do anyway.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Correct.
Now, over in the Middle East,james iHeart are launching a
regional podcasting hub in Qatar.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
Yes, or Qatar.
Is it Qatar or Qatar?

Speaker 3 (58:00):
I never know.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
I actually don't know , I never know, I actually don't
know.
But anyway, yes, so they gotquite a lot of their big stars
over to Web Summit in Qatar.
I'm going to say Qatar fromhere on in.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Okay, let's see, let's see if I'm wrong, it's all
right.
I'm calling Elon Musk's companyDoggy now.
So we're okay, you go Qatar.
Well, there you go.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
There you go, well, anyway.
So, yes, so this was a bigannouncement that they made at
the Web Summit.
They got a ton of their starsover there, which was nice, and
now they have said that they aregoing to launch a regional
podcasting hub.
The Qatari government isbasically turning around and

(58:45):
saying we will pay for that.
Just please come and show ushow this stuff works.
That's what I would expect.
Interestingly, that happenedlast week.
Also, last week was the Saudimedia summit in Riyadh as well,
so lots of media conversationsgoing on in that part of the

(59:07):
world.
My understanding is that quitea lot of the Arab nations,
firstly, are seeing an explosionin creator economy and that
kind of stuff, but also,secondly, seeing that they have
to be fun places to be for theyoung generation of today,
because otherwise they justleave and they don't want a

(59:30):
population drain of young,bright people just upping and
leaving, which is why you'reseeing quite a lot of these
places open up.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Finally, in Europe.
Andrea Koskaj, who was on theshow a couple of weeks back.
In Europe, andrea Koskaj, whowas on the show a couple of
weeks back, has launchedEurowaves, a Google group.
It's a European group forpodcasters and they've already
got their 200th member which isquite cool.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Yes, they've got a lot of them and there's an intro
thread on there which has abunch of fascinating people in
there.
So, yes, worthwhile taking apeek at.
If you are in any wayinterested in podcasting in
Europe and talking about that,there's a free radio and podcast
festival in a place calledAscoli Pinceno in Italy.

(01:00:19):
It's called Dire Fare Ascoltare, which is just fantastic, which
I think means say do no, saymake and listen, and it's a free
radio and podcast festivalApril 5th to the 6th.
In case you happen to be inItaly I believe it's somewhere

(01:00:41):
near Rome is Ascoli Piceno it'ssomewhere near Rome, is Ascoli
Piceno.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
I was going to say.
Those Italian classes you weretalking about last week at
school seem to be working.
Then Beautifully announced yes,well, we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
But I've probably pronounced that entirely wrong.
But anyway, yes.
So if you want to go to that,then podnewsnet slash events is
where to go and take a peekPeople.
News on the Pod News WeeklyReview.
Yes People News, kim Curtin hasbeen hired as head of podcast
partnerships at NovaEntertainment in Australia.

(01:01:14):
I remember being in the Qantaslounge in Singapore and somebody
rushing up and saying you'reJames from Pod News, aren't you?
How exciting.
And it was, kim, slightlyembarrassing.

Speaker 3 (01:01:28):
Once only in my life, but I enjoyed the moment.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Yes, yes, so that was fun.
Actually, I seem to remember itwas on the way into the lounge
and I said are you going into alounge?
And she said no, no, I can'tget into a lounge.
And I said, come into thelounge and guested her in.
But yes, so congratulations toher.
I know that she is totallychuffed about that.

(01:01:52):
And also sad news If you'vebeen to a podfest, you will know
Neil Gillarte.
He has died after an accident.
He was only 51.
He has died after an accident.
He was only 51.
He directed the podcastdocumentary film the Messengers,
which is, of course, a DaveJackson thing.
It's got lots of people inthere Harry Duran and all kinds

(01:02:15):
of other people.
He used to DJ at Podfest andall of that.
And so all very sudden there'sa GoFundMe page for his wife and
his daughter if you want to goand help, and you'll find that
linked from the Pod Newsnewsletter this week.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Moving on then, james awards and events.
The British Podcast Awards areback, james.

Speaker 1 (01:02:41):
What are they doing this time?
Yes, they are going to be atIndigo, at the O2, which is the
nightclub in the Millennium Dome, as I would call it because I'm
old, back for the ninth year.
I understand getting quite alot of flack for being very
expensive to enter, but you know, I think that's where you are

(01:03:02):
with the British Podcast Awards.
One of the things that I didnotice was quite interesting is
that they have three newcategories, one of those being
Video Innovation.
And if that doesn't point tothe future of podcasting, what
does it celebrates outstandingvisual podcasting, including
editing, production and audienceengagement in video format.

(01:03:24):
So there we are.
Sponsored by YouTube probably.
Well, you know, who knows, whoknows.
But yes, so it's a decentawards.
It's been going for nine yearsnow and, yes, it'll be rather
fun.
I've been to Indego at the O2.

(01:03:46):
I've actually stood on stageand given away a prize at the
Student Radio Awards a long,long time ago, and it's quite a
large place and all of a suddenyou feel, oh gosh, I'm.
You know, I feel very small onthis large stage, but still,
there we go.
So that should be fun.

Speaker 3 (01:04:05):
The award's happening on the 2nd of october now I
heart, who we just talked aboutbriefly, has announced the
return of the black effectpodcast festival, which is going
to take place in atlanta in theusa on april 26th yes, and
before that, of course,evolutions on the 31st of March
and on in Chicago in the US.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
I will be there kicking off one of the days and
looking forward to doing that,so that should be good.
But what's your thing?
How's your thing going?
Because I see here a verybeautiful looking leaflet which
has podcast show branding on it,as well as pod camp london.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
this is very exciting sam, well, I didn't produce it.
That's even more exciting.
That's what I love, um, this,uh, yes.
So a quick update.
Um, why have I not been pushingit harder?
Um, the reason is we had avenue and that venue now has
fallen through.
So I've got a conversation withsomebody else.
So once that's secured, I'llthen start announcing a lot more

(01:05:09):
.
But we have some great sponsors.
We have captivate a cast andalso a podcast movement, and if
you want to sponsor us, pleasecontact me.
But, um, julie costello um isbringing over ainsley costello
and, uh, there's a whole bunchof other people.
There's going to be an event atDingwalls which is very

(01:05:29):
exciting, a concert very similarto the ones they did in
Nashville.
It'll be live broadcast on allthe Podcasting 2.0 apps as well
and the whole thing is comingtogether very nicely and Julie's
pulling together all of thebits and pieces to do with that
concert.
I've been talking to a numberof well-known uh podcasting 2.0

(01:05:49):
apps and hosts about uh speakingat the event and they've all
pretty much said yes, so that'svery exciting.
So I'll be putting panelstogether and announcing that,
probably in the next couple ofweeks very cool.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
so, yeah, it's all coming together.
Yes, all coming together.
The thing that I like the mosthere is in this, which is
probably a mock-up schedule, butthe mock-up schedule says, at
five o'clock in the afternoon,cocktails and questions.
Okay, sounds good.
Questions get better as thecocktails get better.
Yes, so remind us, it's the20th of May, so it's 2.0, 20th

(01:06:24):
of May.
See what we did there PodCampin London, and the website
address podcamplive.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Podcamplive or podcamp2.live, both work.
Yes, there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
It's almost as if you've done this before.
Yeah.
The tech stuff on the Pod NewsWeekly Review.
Yes, it's the stuff you'll findevery Monday in the Pod News
newsletter.
Here's where Sam talkstechnology Pod 2, our friend
Russell.
What's he up to?
Well?

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
he had a new player called PlayerPod, which I've
never heard of, so I had to lookit up and they were basically
making too many requests to hisservers.
They were making from the app.
They have set a hundreddownloads for every episode that

(01:07:13):
they can get their hands on andthat's their default.
So Russell was getting, I think, gigs and gigs and gigs of data
requests and he was like who'sdoing this and it's costing him
a lot of money.
So he says, look, he reachedout to them and I don't think
they're quite interested, sohe's had to ban them, which I
think is quite, you know, harsh.

(01:07:34):
But you know he said look, Ican't.
I've been polite, I've gone tothem.
I've said your app requires orsets a default download of 100
episodes.
I don't know why you're doingthat.
And they haven't changed.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
So when you subscribe to a new show, it downloads 100
episodes of that new showinstantly, instantly, even if
you know you don't need morethan three.
Let's say that's not brilliant,although, weirdly, that was
exactly what Apple Podcasts wasdoing prior to iOS 17.
So maybe they've learned fromthe best.
So he was talking about usingum.

(01:08:09):
Well, firstly, he was talkingabout um, uh, a new tag which
would indicate to podcastplayers how many, um, how many
downloads they could actuallytake and how often.
Um, which um I mean, which Ilooked at and I thought why, if
you're a player and you don'tunderstand how to download

(01:08:32):
podcasts anyway, why would youpossibly take any notice of
whatever that said?
So I think that was anon-starter he's now trying to
use.
There's a standard status codewhich the PodNews website uses
as well, actually 429, which iscome back later.

(01:08:52):
Too many requests come backlater, and so he is suggesting
using that, which I know thatsome podcast apps already
support, which is nice.
That's not going to fix hiscosts in terms of bandwidth.
It's just going to slow downthe amount of requests that he
gets.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's the King Canute model,
right, he's not going to be ableto stop the waves, he's not
going to be able to stop thedownloads, but at least he can
put a yellow card up forsomebody and say you need to
slow down, pull back a bit and Iguess you get the red card if
you don't.
So I don't know what otherhosts think.
You know, I mean you know,russell's an up and coming young

(01:09:34):
podcast host, but some of thebig ones, like Buzzsprout or
Captivate Blueberry, et cetera,I wonder what they think of apps
like this that are doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:44):
Yeah, Well, I know that there are.
I mean, there are a number ofthings built into both Amazon,
CloudFront and CloudFlare thatactually would slow any of these
podcast hosts, podcast apps,down.
I mean, I think you can see theproblems that it was causing,

(01:10:06):
because this was, as I say, whatApple Podcasts used to be doing
when you came back to a showthat you had subscribed to but
then you'd lapsed for you know50 episodes or something, and
then you came back and it woulddownload all of the ones that
you missed all at the same time,which, if you're just serving
static audio files, then that'sone thing and frankly, you

(01:10:29):
should be able to deal with thatand I'm not quite sure why you
can't.
But if you are servingprogrammatic ads into those
shows, then obviously you knowyou've got servers that are
rebuilding all of those MP3s foryou every single time, and
that's where it gets difficultif you are asking for 500 shows
at the same time.

(01:10:50):
So that that, of course, is ayou know is a bad thing.
So I'm sure that people will be, you know, building that into
their, into their hosting, youknow platforms, if they've not
already done so.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
One of the things I learned I mean again, I'm still
on a learning curve with many ofthese things was that Apple now
use a head request to try andsee if there's actually a change
to the file, rather thanrequest the file itself every
time.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Yeah, so Apple have always sent both a head request
first to find out a little bitabout that file, check that it's
actually there, and blah, blah,blah before they download it,
and there are a few other uhapps that uh do that.
Now, if you are charged by therequest, as I am, then that
doubles my costs.
So there are benefits anddownsides in doing that.

(01:11:38):
But I'm charged by request aswell as being charged by
bandwidth, as Russell is as well.
So you know, we, we, you knowthat that is also a thing, and
the ideal is to um, not to um,cause so much hassle on
someone's server that uh it justtimes out and you then have to

(01:11:58):
go and request an episode again,and then again, and then again,
because again, that was whatwas going on with the apple
podcast thing and why they endedup having to change it.
Um, so, yeah, so I think youknow.
Yeah, again, it's just, it'sjust making making sure that
everything is a little bit morecalm on the on the podcast

(01:12:20):
hosting side now moving on.

Speaker 3 (01:12:23):
Uh, we talked about Justin Jackson from Transistor.
He's now posted a list of 23podcast apps that have closed.
And then he puts a tip don'tlaunch a social podcast player.
What is a social podcast playerin the first place.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
Well, it's all of these podcast players.
They will either say you know,we're the cleverest thing
because we can do clipping andso you can share clips with your
friends, which nobody wants,and so lots of podcast players
go to market with that, and theother set of podcast players, a
bit like Good Pods and Fountainto a degree, have promoted

(01:13:03):
themselves as social podcastplayers so you can invite your
friends and you can leavecomments and all of that stuff.
And all of those have died,with the exception of Good Pods
and Fountain.

Speaker 3 (01:13:16):
I was going to say I don't think they were on the
list, james.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
Yes, no, no, exactly, but you can very clearly see
that if you are a podcast hostwhich offers either clipping or
the concept of being a socialpodcast player, then you are
more likely to fail.
23 podcast apps in there thathave closed One of them, of
course, google Play Music, whichwas only a podcast app in the

(01:13:44):
US and in Canada, I notice andthere was also a little mention
of Google Listen.
Now I've been chatting to theperson that invented Google
Listen, or one of the peoplethat invented Google Listen.
I've learned some amazingthings about Google Listen, and
so at some point, when I've gotenough time to sit and write the

(01:14:05):
article, I will be writing anarticle about Google Listen, the
best podcast app that we neverhad, genuinely, because, my
goodness, it was capable.
You know the ideas behind it wasso, so great, but it was a
typical piece of Google 10% timethat never really moved forward

(01:14:25):
to anything else, but actuallywas Google's first attempt at
YouTube, would you believe,because Google Listen went onto
the Google TV box, the firstever Google TV box before Google
had bought YouTube.
It was that long ago, so yeah,so it's a tremendous story and

(01:14:47):
I'm looking forward to writingit up when I've got time,
spotify, we'll whisk throughthis so we don't have to play
that jingle.
But four years ago this week,spotify announced Spotify Hi-Fi
Still the largest resolvedmystery of our time.
What is going on with SpotifyHi-Fi?

Speaker 3 (01:15:08):
I don't know.
I mean we can surmise that it'slicensing.
We can surmise that they wantto increase the price and
they're saving it for last.
I don't know, but I meanYouTube, amazon, apple all offer
high quality audio already.
I don't really get a sight orsound of why they wouldn't do it
.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Well, I did read something on the internet a
couple of days ago and I thought, oh well, maybe this is it.
It's a product which they arelaunching, uh, relatively soon,
called spotify music pro.

(01:15:49):
It's a new premium tier calledspotify music pro was reported
in bloomberg, actually whichwill introduce, in inverted
commas, cd quality audio.
What does that mean?
Um, something it first promisedback in 2021, and so, yes, and
so it does look as if they'veactually dropped the name
Spotify Hi-Fi completely.

(01:16:09):
They're calling it SpotifyMusic Pro, and instead of
Spotify Premium being $12 amonth, it's now going to cost
you $18 a month to get SpotifyMusic Pro, which seems to me
something that I would not buy,to be honest.
But still, there we go.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
Well, daniel Ek was crowing about something called
Spotify Singles this week, whichI'd never come across.
He said back in 2016,.
We launched Spotify Singles, amusic series where artists
reimagine their own songs andrecord one-of-a-kind covers, and
it's now passing its 10 yearsand 10 billion streams.
And I went.
I've never even heard ofSpotify singles, let alone

(01:16:51):
played one.

Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
I do remember Spotify recording their own stuff in
because they used to have a bandarea in London I know, I know
that and clearly they've got aband area in LA as well.
And it's a great way, of course, for them to have cheaper music
Because all of a sudden, with aSpotify single that you record

(01:17:16):
Coldplay singing Yellow again,then you don't have to pay EMI
for the record company becausethe record company you've got
rid of the record companybecause it's your own recording.
So it's a great way of savingyourself a bunch of cash, and
the fact that they've now hit 10billion streams of Spotify
singles worldwide seems to showthat they've done quite well.

(01:17:39):
In terms of that.
I should point you to a radiostation here in Australia.
It's run by the ABC here.
It's called Triple J and it hasa feature which they do every
single week called Like AVersion.
It's a bit like Like A Virgin,you see, but it's not, anyway,
and that is essentially the samething.

(01:18:02):
So they record one-of-a-kind, akind covers, um, and so it's a
band that you know recordinganother song that you know, uh,
and that does incredibly well onYouTube, incredibly well in
various other places.
And again, you know realopportunity because you own the
masters.
So um, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
Moving on then.
Uh, apple looks like we'regetting a little stocking filler
late christmas presents fromapple.
Um, ios 18.4 now has updates tothe carplay interface not the
ones that I thought they weregoing to bring out.
Um, the exciting news is theynow allow you to have a third
row of apps on the home screenwell, that's exciting, isn't it?

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Apple CarPlay apparently, on some cars you can
say whether you want the littlebuttons to the left of the
screen or to the right of thescreen.
On my car, it doesn't have thatsetting and it just chooses.
Is it random?
So sometimes the buttons are onthe left, sometimes they're on
the right.
Good old Chinese software.
That's what you need.
Uh, apple also, um, adding afew new things.

(01:19:06):
Uh, apparently, um, from thepodcast's app.
Um, I don't know where you'vegot this information from, um,
because I'm just pointing outthat, of course, I'm being a
good boy and I'm not reportingon the beaters.
Um, because nobody, nobodyreports on the beaters because
you're not supposed to.

Speaker 3 (01:19:24):
Well, apart from the whole of the bloody internet.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
Clearly I'm reading this Apart from the whole of the
internet, I know I know exactly.
There are also, hilariously,two new Australian voices for
Siri in 18.4.
One of them is called Kylie,one of them is called Jason
Hilarious, no actually theyaren't, but I thought I'd leave
that in there for you.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
But they do have two australian voices.
Yes, now moving on swiftly andthen swiftly being the core word
um, gordon firemark, friend ofthe show, who's the podcast
lawyer.
Um, I don't normally listen tohis podcast, sorry, gordon, but
it is very much about legalissues.
But the current issue, episode177, was quite interesting
because all about ai law and andhe talked about the first AI

(01:20:07):
generated art to get copyrightand it was really interesting.
It wasn't the end product thatgot the copyright, it was the
human squiggles on a piece ofpaper that got the copyright and
the AI was just the output.
So quite interesting where thecopyright law will sit with this

(01:20:29):
one legal ruling.
He also talked about a majorfair use victory for podcasters
at the Copyright Claims Boardand he points to a website which
I didn't even knew existed,called plagiarismtodaycom, which
is covering the story, which Ithought was quite interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:20:50):
Is it all original content?

Speaker 3 (01:20:51):
plagiarism today Very good.
It's basically a copyrightpodcasting use, a TikTok video
of a attorney and the attorneywas not very happy, but they
caught overrule that they hadfair use.
So again, if you want to hearmore about what they were doing

(01:21:14):
there, it's quite interestinghow podcasters can use other
content and their use of thatcontent is upheld as fair use.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
Well, gordon Farmark will, I'm sure, be at Evolutions
in Chicago.
He normally makes it hisbusiness to go to all of those
things, so we should watch outfor him there.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
Boostergram Super comments, zaps, fan mail, super
chats and email.
Our favourite time of the week,it's the Pod News Weekly Review
Inbox.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
Yes, it's our favourite time of the week.
There are so many differentways to get in touch with us.
There's fan mail by using thelink in our show notes, or super
comments on True Fans, boosts,or email, and yes, and basically
any of those.
We've got some messages here,haven't we?
Through Blue Sky, yes, what'sthe first message here?

Speaker 3 (01:22:13):
Well, you enabled Blue Sky through the social
interact tag onto your website.
So now you're picking up thesecomments and it's John Spurlock
with a tip Don't launch a socialpodcast player.
Yes, he's joining in withJustin Jackson.
Yes, note to self.
Do not launch a social podcastplayer.
Yes, he's joining in withjustin jackson.
So, yes, note to self.
Do not launch a social podcastplayer.
Right, all those featurescoming out?
Um, he said perhaps it's timeto come to terms with the fact

(01:22:36):
that, although many podcasterssay they want social podcast
apps, almost no listeners do.
Podcast listening is inherentlypara anti-social listeners do.
Podcast listening is inherentlypara-antisocial.

Speaker 1 (01:22:49):
Live streams, on the other hand, I guess, are
different.
Yeah, yes, no, he is absolutelycorrect.
Danny Brown also left a BlueSky message.
This is why podcasters alsoneed to be listeners of podcasts
.
I've seen a lot say they don'tbother, which is fine if that's
your preference, but you justmiss out on a lot of insights
and listener preferences bydoing so.
Being just a podcaster skewsthe bigger picture view.

(01:23:12):
He's replying to John there, Iwould guess.
But yes, absolutely.
I'm always flabbergasted bypeople in radio who I meet who
don't listen to the radio.
It seems bizarre.
And people who make podcaststhat don't listen to the radio,
which seems bizarre.
And people who make podcaststhat don't listen to podcasts.
I was absolutely flabbergastedby that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
You can also send or CEOs of podcast companies that
don't have a podcast studio appor headphones?

Speaker 1 (01:23:41):
Yes, Correct, Correct , and I think yes, there is
definitely an article in thatwhich at some point I will write
, which is which of the CEOs whowork in podcasting actually
make a podcast for themselves,because I'm always astonished by
who doesn't.
We've had a number of boostsand things A row of ducks from

(01:24:06):
Anonymous Podcast Guru Userthat's a good name, you've got
there.
Thanks for the entertainingnews and conversation.
Bruce from the Ugly QuackingDuck Okay, 1,308 sats, so an
amount of British sterling.

(01:24:26):
From Neil Velio through TrueFans.
Neil says I agree Adam would bean excellent evangelist for 2.0
.
I don't understand hisresistance to repping what he
made.
Such a shame.
If I'd invented this tech, I'dbe sharing my passion for it
until I made people roll eyesabout it.
I enjoyed listening to Adam onthe Podcasting 2.0 podcast last
week where he basically says I'mnot interested in keynoting at

(01:24:48):
conferences.
Not interested, I have nointerest in that.
Oh, I'm looking forward tokeynoting at this conference
coming up.
What?

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
Yes, it was just so perfect he was going.
No, no, I'm never going to dothat.
No, anyway, next week I will bekeynoting and talking about
podcasting 2.0.
And I'm like that's all we wantyou to do, adam.
That is what we want you to do.

Speaker 1 (01:25:13):
Honestly, 5,150 sats from Matt Cundall.
I think we mentioned hisSoundUp podcast in the Pod News
Daily.
He sent us a boost that justsaid cheers, which is nice, and
that is it for those.
What's the phrase?
I've reached the delimiter andthank you.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
I think the bottom of the barrel is the other word
you're looking for.
That's exactly it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
And thank you to our stupendous 16.
Who will be number 17?
Will it be you, dear listener?
You can go to weeklypodnewsnetand we would love to see you as
a power supporter, as our 17thpower supporter.
You can be in there for just $3a month.
I mean you spend more on thatthan coffee.
That would be a lovely thing.

(01:26:02):
Anyway, the 16 that wecurrently have are Cameron Moll,
Marshall Brown, matt Medeiros,mike Hamilton, dave Jackson,
rachel Corbett, cy Jobling,david Marzal, jim James, rocky
Thomas, neil Velio, ms EileenSmith, clare Waight-Brown, john
McDermott, james Burt and thelate Bloomer actor.
And number 17 could be you,weeklypodnewsnet.

(01:26:24):
Go on, go on.
You know you want to.
So what's happened for you?
Quickly, sam, yes, yes quicklyRight.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
We continued with our exercise in moving to cross-out
comments, so we had blue sky inand out last week, very similar
to what you did with Pod NewsWeekly and what Transistor did.
We've added Twitter now and soyou can also post, if you choose
, to Blue Sky Twitter andActivity Park clients like

(01:26:55):
Mastodon.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
So if you're a Nazi, you can still use TrueFans.
Good news everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:27:01):
No, no, no.
I have to say you'll hear in aminute that it's going to be the
last thing we do with Twitter,because they want to charge
$10,000 for the API access permonth, per month.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:27:15):
So, yes, you can take your API and stick it where it
doesn't shine.

Speaker 1 (01:27:18):
Mr Elon Musk.

Speaker 3 (01:27:19):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:27:20):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:27:20):
There's a thing.
I'll explain that in a second.
We also so the image that youcan see in the show notes, james
, is actually the image of PodNews Daily in X that I was
listening to.
So you get all the listen timepercent completed and the value
I paid as well, and a link backto it.
So, yeah, that's what we did.
As I said, queen Elonia ofGilead, as I'm going to now call

(01:27:43):
him once 10,000 a month, justto use a single feature.
We built two years ago a reallycool tool which would allow you
to authorise your account on X.
We would then pull in yourfollowers and you could then
invite them to TrueFans, and itworked beautifully.
But it was too early, so wesort of parked it away and we
thought, right, we're prettymuch ready to start that feature

(01:28:05):
again.
So I told mo, my cto, let's putit back.
That feature's been moved tothe enterprise api version.
As I say, ten thousand dollarsa month, so you won't be doing
that gosh, do you know?

Speaker 1 (01:28:17):
do you know you've?
You've been saying gilead, um,uh, now, this is the third week
in a row that you've beentalking about gilead what at
some point I I am going to haveto come clean and say I have no
idea what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:28:33):
Gilead is the name of the place for Handmaiden's Tale
, where they took away women'srights.

Speaker 1 (01:28:40):
Aren't you the well-read.

Speaker 3 (01:28:45):
So, yes, the other things we're doing, I think are
quite cool Import-export of OPMLfinally, we needed to do that
and that was quite useful.
And now you can highlight textin a transcript and then just
save that in a private note oreven start a blog post.
So, again, using the transcriptfor more than just reading
along with it.
And finally, I'm very excited,we are relaunching Fan Zone with

(01:29:10):
Claire Waite-Brown, so Claireand I are currently recording
what is Fan Zone.
Fan Zone is a podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:29:19):
It's another product that sounds eerily close to
OnlyFans.
I'm just wondering what it is.
It's a podcast, is it?
That's all right.

Speaker 3 (01:29:29):
Well, I'm going to be using that picture of me as an
inner mankini and seeing howmuch money I can make from it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:33):
Yes, so it's a weekly podcast about all things new at
True Fans.
Yes, yes, you should go andfind that in your favourite
podcast app.
It will be everywhere.
You should go and find that inyour favourite podcast app and
in YouTube it will be everywhere.

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
Yes, no, no, no, no, not on YouTube.
No, we're not going to go there.
No, not yet.
No, but yes, it's beensomething we should have done,
and I was.
I hate doing solo podcasts.
I'll be there and I'll admit it.
Well, there you go.
Claire's done a brilliant jobof podcasting 2.0 in practice.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
And so she's helping me do this and it's brilliant,
so I'm very excited for that.
Yes, and talking aboutpodcasting 2.0 in practice,
claire's guest this week isJordan Blair from our sponsor,
buzzsprout.
Yay, talking about Podroll.
Yay, so you should go and takea listen to that.
Podcasting 2.0 in practice isobviously available wherever you
got this show, which is nice,james, come on.

(01:30:33):
What's happened for you, then?
Well, two things.
I launched a new website.
That's exciting, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (01:30:40):
I launched the podcast.
You launched the websiteExcellent.

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
It's newpodcastsnet and it is our feed of new shows
to help you find your nextfavourite podcast Newpodcastsnet
.
It looks all pretty and jollybecause I got somebody to make a
logo and some assets which I'venot properly fixed yet.
Go on a desktop.
It looks nicer than going on amobile.

(01:31:04):
Is it a PWA Right now?
It's not a PWA, no.

Speaker 3 (01:31:09):
I know, just wondering.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
But anyway.
So it is there.
But it is also the way that youcan get your podcast into the
Pod News newsletter.
Just go there, sign up and awayyou go.
It's free.

Speaker 3 (01:31:23):
I'll go and put Fan Zone in then.

Speaker 1 (01:31:24):
Yes, well, yes, why not?
Newpodcastsnet is the place togo for that, and you'll find the
New Podcasts podcast itself inyour favourite podcast app and
it's called New Podcasts.
You'll find it impossible tofind in Spotify, because what
Spotify does is it makes it verydifficult for you to find a

(01:31:46):
show which has the word podcastin it, so I need to fix that
somehow.
But anyway, let's play withthat later.
And I've read a book.
I've actually finished a bookthis week, which is amazing.
It's a brilliant book too, andI would heartily recommend it.
It's by a man called Ed Conway,who I believe is a reporter for
Sky News in the UK.

(01:32:07):
The book is called MaterialWorld the six raw materials that
shape modern civilization.
If you need to know how, on aknife edge, pretty well
everything in the world is, thenthis is an incredible book for
you to read.
It turns out, for example, thatum, we, we need sand.
We really need sand, but notjust any old sand.

(01:32:30):
We need sand from a particularmine, and the particular mine
has one road leading to thatmine, and if that road has any
problems, then that essentiallymeans no more silicon chips
anywhere in the world at all,because all of the silicon chips
in the world are made with theparticular type of sand from

(01:32:52):
this mine and you can then rollthat out to lithium and all of
the conversations that are goingon in Ukraine right now.
You can have a look at oil.
It's just absolutelyfascinating, and you end up
reading the book and thinkingliterally everything is just

(01:33:13):
luck that we are where we areright now.
Absolutely fascinating, so it'sdefinitely worthwhile.
Gosh, I gave that a write-up,didn't I?
And I think that's it for thisweek.
All of our podcast stories weretaken from the PodNews daily
newsletter at podnewsnet.

Speaker 3 (01:33:33):
You can support this show by streaming sats.
You can give us feedback usingthe Buzzsprout fan mail link In
our show notes.
You can send us a super commentor a boostergram or become a
power supporter like thesensational 16 at
weeklypodnewsnet yes, please dodo that in case.

Speaker 1 (01:33:49):
Um, you know, because I'm getting bored talking about
16, I would rather talk about17.
Our music is from studiodragonfly.
Our voiceover is sheila d.
We use clean feed for our audio.
We edit with hindenburg andthank you to hindenburg founder,
nick Dunkley, for includingthis show as one of his top 10
shows, which I thought wasfairly amazing.

(01:34:10):
Alongside Radiolab and you knowother, much better shows.

Speaker 4 (01:34:15):
So thank you to him for that.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Thanks for promoting us.
Yes, there you go.
And we are hosted and sponsoredby Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.
Get updated every day.

Speaker 4 (01:34:27):
Subscribe to our newsletter at podnewsnet tell
your friends and grow the showand support us, and support us.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
The pod news weekly review will return next week.
Keep listening.

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