Spotify's Secret to Higher Podcast Consumption

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Pod News Weekly Review uses chapters, so you can
skip the 400 stories aboutSpotify this week.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Sethi.

Speaker 4 (00:15):
I'm James.

Speaker 5 (00:15):
Cridland, the editor of Pod News, and I'm Sam Sethi,
the CEO of TrueFans.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
So we're really putting an appeal out to anyone
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Speaker 4 (00:29):
Plus Apple's anniversary, patreon's payouts,
podcast marketing.
And now we know why Spotifysees higher consumption on video
podcasts because they pay topromote them.
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Speaker 5 (00:53):
Review Well, James, now it seems that there's a
celebration due.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
Our friends at Apple are 20.
What's going on?
Yes, it's almost 20 years sincepodcasts were added into iTunes
.
In fact, it's 20 years tomorrow, but they're celebrating today
and indeed celebrated parts ofyesterday as well.
Don't get me started aboutembargoes, but 20 years ago
Apple added podcasts to iTunesand, they say, helped take the

(01:27):
emerging medium of podcastingmainstream, which I think is
probably fair enough.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I think, that's true.

Speaker 4 (01:34):
Yeah.
So I think you know there'sobviously quite a lot of patting
themselves on the back, andquite rightly so.
And they've launched this thingcalled 20 Years, 20 Podcasts we
Love.
And when I was going throughthe list, very excitedly I saw
two from the UK in there.
That doesn't normally happen.

(01:55):
So good to see two UK shows inthat list as well as, obviously,
things like Serial, as youmight guess what else was in
there this American Life, as youmight guess.
In fact, I've just been lookingat old screenshots of the Apple
Podcasts app and this AmericanLife is there being pushed in

(02:18):
there, which is quite fun,pushed in there, which is, you
know, which is quite fun, but,yes, so good to see.
You know a number of thosesorts of things and you know,
and obviously Apple stillplanning on additional changes
with the new iOS and all of that.

Speaker 5 (02:39):
I mean, look, they have been the guardians,
custodians, which is the rightword.
I'm not sure of podcasting inthe downtime.
The directory is something thatthey kept going and they have
added new features, as you said,in the new iOS 26,.
They've started adding a fewmore features.

(03:00):
I'm frustrated with Applethat's my position with them
because I think they go too slowand they could go much faster
and make much more effect.
I think you know they talkabout how Apple, you know, made
the emerging medium ofpodcasting.
Yes, they did, and imagine whatthey could do today if they

(03:21):
really embrace podcasting today,if they actually made apple pay
a micro payment system whereyou could because it's all
digital just do one p or onecent or one euro.
Right, yeah, they can do it,they have the ability, they.
There is nothing that they aredoing other than slowing down
the progress, because I don'tknow why they can do everything

(03:45):
and they choose not to, andthat's the frustration I have.

Speaker 4 (03:49):
Yeah, I think my overwhelming view, coming back
to Apple from Android, is thatGoogle is the company that you
want Apple to be.
They move fast, they launchlots of new and exciting things.
My overwhelming view is thatApple are a set of companies

(04:10):
that do things very, very slowly, but once they do something
then they commit for a long,long time.
You know they don't close apps.
You know very, very often, ifat all, you know they commit to
keeping their um, their hardware, you know, up and running for
as long as they possibly can.
I think it's a pretty goodcompany from that point of view,

(04:32):
um, but very different and very, you know, certainly not fleet
of foot in the same way that, um, you know android is, but, um,
yeah, I can certainly see that.

Speaker 5 (04:41):
Yeah, and look, I congratulate Apple on reaching
their 20th milestone.
I think you know that's anamazing point.
But where will they be in fiveyears, James?
I mean, should we leave that toour prediction show, or do you
want to give a guess now?

Speaker 4 (04:57):
Well, where will they be in five years?
I mean, it's very clearly thecase that the amount of
consumption through ApplePodcasts is going down in terms
of share.
What we don't know is totalconsumption.
We don't actually know whetheror not that is.
You know that is actually stillincreasing.
I seem to remember and I needto be careful because I've had

(05:20):
background briefings whichyou're not allowed to quote from
.
Careful because I've hadbackground briefings which
you're not allowed to quote frombut I seem to remember that at
the podcast show they weresaying things like last year was
our best ever year in terms ofconsumption through the app.
So they are still growing.
It's just that they're growingless than potentially, spotify
or YouTube is.

(05:41):
So you know.
So people are just seeing thatand seeing, well, it's a
slowdown in Apple.
It's not really.
It's just that the others aregrowing a little bit faster.
Um, but uh, yeah, you knowwhere.
Where are they going to go?
I found it interesting.
Um, you know the, the, thewhole video, audio, um

(06:03):
discussion.
Um.
I found it interesting becausenot only is it the 20th year of
podcasts being in iTunes, it isalso the 13th anniversary of the
launch of the Apple PodcastsiOS app which was launched this
week in 2012.
And I went to have a look atsome.

(06:23):
There are some YouTube videosthat are reviewing that back
from 2012, which are really oldfashioned looking and it was
interesting.
They had Sam.
They had a feature called TopStations probably the wrong name
, but it was a discovery feature.
So you went in there and yousaid I'm interested in shows
about sports and it would playyou five different sports shows

(06:51):
in a playlist and I thought,well, that's an interesting plan
.
Do you know the otherinteresting plan in there?
They had an audio video switchright at the top of the screen
so if you wanted to could go, goin there and you could say play
five tech um video podcasts andit would play five tech video

(07:11):
podcasts back to back how wouldhave been happy, todd would have
been so happy.

Speaker 5 (07:16):
Uh, yes, but we talked about a few weeks back
about the there being an audioand a video chart as well.
Again, this is one of thethings.
You know this.
Again, my frustration withApple is more to do with I want
them to do really well.
I love Apple.
I know I come across as anApple basher, but that's because

(07:37):
I'm an Apple fan boy and I'mfrustrated with the lack of
progress.
So HLS is a Apple standard.
Come on, apple, you know, addit.
You know it's not like you'regoing to a Google standard or a
third party standard fromYouTube that you're applying.
It's your own standard.
So apply it, use it, make itthe best app for it and then

(08:00):
allow the industry to growaround it.

Speaker 4 (08:02):
But no, you won't do that and then allow the industry
to grow around it.
But no, you won't do that.
Yeah, it's a bit of a shame,but certainly as a steward of
the maybe steward is the rightword as a steward of the
industry, I think that they'vedone a pretty good job in
ensuring that open RSS is stilla thing.
They could have completelyclosed that and turned that off,

(08:26):
of course, and the fact thatthey are still using that is, I
think, a very good thing.
From that point of view, theinteresting thing that I did
spot in the original ApplePodcasts iOS app was that you
couldn't add third-party RSSfeeds in there.
You could only add a show if itwas in the iTunes directory,

(08:50):
which I thought was interesting.
It's not not, you know.
So you know.
Clearly things have changedthere.
The other thing about the appwhen it first launched back in
2012 is that it was all.
It was all.
What was the phrase Neomorphism?
It was all these sort of things.

(09:11):
You know, the Notes app lookedas if it was an old legal pad on
a desk and all of this, and so,yeah, and so the Apple Podcasts
app had a reel-to-reel tapedeck in it when you pressed the
play button Beautiful oldreel-to-reel tape deck, and so I

(09:33):
did some research earlier thisweek to discover that it was the
Braun TG-60 tape recorder byDieter Rams, which was a
beautiful piece of design fromthe 60s, and Apple essentially,
you know, we probably shouldn'tsay copied, but certainly gave a
nod to that.
Yeah, gave a nod.

(09:53):
We can't say plagiarised either, gave a nod to that, which is
interesting because also, if youhave a look at the calculator
app, that was also based on aDita Rams Braun calculator, so
there are clearly some fans ofDita Rams within Apple.

(10:16):
But yeah, some smart thingsgoing on there.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
I mean, the last thing I'll say on this whole
note is one thing I'm glad Appledidn't do, because they could
have killed the industry as well.
That's the other thing.
You know, if they do apply allthese things, sometimes you
could imagine they could killthe ecosystem of podcasting.
You have to upload your podcastdirectly to Apple to be in
Apple subscriptions, which ineffect makes Apple a host.

(10:47):
And again, had they bought ahost let's say they bought
Libsyn from the early days couldthey have killed the ecosystem
of hosting instantly, but theydidn't choose to do that.

Speaker 4 (11:00):
No, they didn't.
And of course, actually that'sthe way that it launched, where
you had to upload the audiostraight to Apple.
Now they have a API into thatsystem, so you can just use the
Buzzsprout service if you wantto, or you can use Captivate or

(11:22):
OmniStudio or whoever can useCaptivate or Omni Studio or
whoever anybody that has.
I think they called itdelegated delivery for a time
and then they stopped calling itthat.
But yeah, no, you're right, Imean, they could have done a
Spotify with Anchor bought a bighosting company and caused
significant pain to the rest ofthe hosting industry, but they

(11:44):
didn't, you know, and again, soI think that that's a good you
know, a good thing that weshould, you know, always keep in
the back of our minds whenwe're talking about Apple.
Now let's move on.
It's time for a jingle.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
We're sorry but now it's time for more news about
Spotify on the Pod News WeeklyReview oh good, yes, it's time
for lots of Spotify news, Sam.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
what have we got first?

Speaker 5 (12:13):
Well, what have we got?
First, spotify is wooingpotential video creators with
free ad money.
Sorry, have we not had thisstory before?
I mean, it feels like they weredoing that back in the
beginning and they've done thatevery month since.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Well, I think here.
So this is a story from theAnkler, natalie Jarvie, and she
published a leaked Spotify deckthat they have been showing to
creators.
It's behind a paywall.
One of the slides I mean mostof it shows numbers which the

(12:46):
Ankler was very excited aboutbut actually have been public
and visible and everything else.
But there was one slide wherethey basically said, if you move
to Spotify not necessarily move, but add your show onto Spotify
in video then we will give you$5,000 of free ad credits within
Spotify Ads Manager so that youcan promote their shows.

(13:10):
And I looked at that and Ithought, oh, that is news,
because we've not seen thatnumber, we've not seen what
they've been doing.
But also, if you remember, allof the big numbers, are Spotify
saying creators have seen amassive growth in consumption
after they've added video totheir show Growth in consumption
by 20%, 30%, doubling and allthis kind of stuff.

(13:33):
But Spotify don't say but wegave them five grand of free ads
to drive that consumptionincrease anyway.
So to me it seems a little bitI don't want to use the word
dishonest, but it seems a littlebit odd that you would really
lean onto the increase inconsumption but not actually say

(13:56):
oh, but we do actually give newcreators five grand's worth of
advertising and that has to havean effect, right?

Speaker 5 (14:04):
James, that's cool marketing.
Everyone does it.
I mean, literally, they'refeeding the pipe from one end,
which is basically free credits.
Is no value lost to them at all?
Right?
No, exactly, it's zero cost tothe bottom line.
So they're feeding in the pipe.
And guess what?
By feeding the pipe, oh look,the result is you've got an

(14:25):
increase in awareness.
Not very hard.
That's called marketing.
No, well, indeed, the only bitthey're not doing is the PR part
, which is revealing behind thecurtain how they did it.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
That's all around and you say isn't Spotify video
brilliant?
Because, look, your consumptiongoes up 30%.
Then, without actually saying,but actually, we gave these
people five grand's worth offree advertising, so of course
the consumption is going to goup by 30%.

(14:57):
That puts a very different spinon that number.
So I looked at that and Ithought, mean, I looked at that
and I thought you know, yes, youknow, there's a ton of numbers
in there and the numbers alllook nice.
But just that one thing.
And, by the way, I wouldabsolutely do that if I was
Spotify.
Absolutely, of course I would,because you're giving away free

(15:18):
ads that you're not, that youhaven't sold anyway.
Those are going to be bottom ofthe pile when it comes to
availability.
So of course you're going to dothat.
But yeah, I was just therethinking, all of a sudden, the
story about Spotify video reallyadding consumption isn't
necessarily a story anymore, isit?

Speaker 5 (15:40):
Well, we'll see, when they stop giving away the free
ads, what happens next.
Because they're taking a bet,you know, and the bet is that
they can grow enough the marketawareness and get enough
momentum behind podcast andvideo so that people don't need
to be incentivized.
And if they then take away thatincentivize, will the

(16:02):
trajectory still be upward orwill it fall off a cliff?
That's all we'll find out.
That's the bet they're making.

Speaker 4 (16:07):
Well, yes, yes indeed , and you know and I find it
fascinating because it isn'tjust podcasting that they are
trying to get into this, youknow, into this thing they're
also clearly going and talkingto TV companies and that sort of

(16:29):
thing.
There was an announcement rightat the end of last week that
Network 10, which is one of thefour free-to-air services here
in Australia, they have a newnews programme which is called
10 News Plus and that will beavailable on Spotify.

(16:50):
So it's a news show, it's not apodcast, it's a news show and
they will be adding that intoSpotify so you can watch it
there.
They are calling it a videopodcast, by the way, but I mean
it's.

Speaker 5 (17:04):
So so YouTube.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
I mean, yeah, so does YouTube I mean, so it's so,
it's a very so, all of a sudden,Spotify is very definitely
trying to be YouTube, trying tobe another destination for video
of all of all types, and youknow, and that's and that's fine
, but that's really interesting,isn't it?

Speaker 5 (17:24):
I think I think they've got a massive challenge,
because when you say video, goand see my video, then the
Pavlovian behaviour is to go toYouTube, right?

Speaker 4 (17:34):
Yeah, I would never consider watching a video on
Spotify, I mean you know, yeah,I would never consider doing
that.
But clearly, you know, clearlyit's a thing that they want us
doing.

Speaker 5 (17:46):
But I think they've got a bigger problem.
I think the UI and the UXexperience on Spotify is quite a
poor one.
I think what you're seeing nowis a music app that was
specifically designed for music.
Yeah, shoehorning in podcasting, shoehorning in video,
andhorning in video, and thenactually the ui doesn't actually

(18:08):
work very well, and so you endup with a sort of well, it isn't
youtube, because youtube was avideo first app designed for
video, and so either they'regoing to have to do a massive
rewrite of the whole ui orthey're going to just have this
sort of half-hearted videointerface, which I don't think

(18:29):
is going to support the userexperience.

Speaker 4 (18:33):
Well, it's going to be interesting seeing what
happens there, certainly interms of I mean, it's six months
now since Spotify's videopodcast programme started.
Interesting article in Digidaythis week basically saying that
large podcast networks are a bitwary, they're not really doing
it, they don't really want to doit, but creators YouTubers, if

(18:57):
you like seem very keen indeed.
So there's one company calledYMH Studios saying that they're
earning five times the revenuefrom Spotify than YouTube.
There's another creator calledRiff who says that he's earning
more than double the amount ofrevenue from YouTube on Spotify,

(19:17):
and I thought that it wasinteresting that they split it
up in that way.
So, basically, if you are apodcaster that earns your money
through advertising, then you'renot really sold on this whole
idea of the Spotify videopartner program.

(19:38):
But if you are a YouTuber andyou're used to getting money
from YouTube you don't go outand sell your advertising
yourself, you just earn moneyfrom YouTube Then Spotify looks
very, very good indeed, becauseSpotify pays out considerably
more, and so perhaps that's thedifference here.
Perhaps what we're seeing isthose people who are focused on

(20:02):
ad revenue aren't really gettinga particular benefit from video
, aren't really getting aparticular benefit from video,
aren't really getting aparticular benefit from Spotify,
but those people who are muchmore influence driven, who are
much more driven by, just go outand make me some money Spotify,
youtube.
You can see that they will beabsolutely thrilled with what

(20:22):
Spotify is doing.
So it was an interesting sortof division of the industry, if
you like there.

Speaker 5 (20:29):
We still haven't found out, and it's still not
been revealed, what is thepercentage of subscription money
that the video podcasts receive.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
No, and I would imagine that that's going to
change every single month.
So you know that's probably howthat's going to work.
But yeah, no, you're right.

Speaker 5 (20:48):
Well, maybe there's another way that they can make
money.
They've got porn.
Yay, spotify has a porn problem.
What's this one?

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Now, I am fascinated by this.
This was a story in the Timesin the UK that Spotify has a
porn problem, but it turns outthat it's porn, but it's audio
porn, it's not video porn.
So one of the first things thatalmost any service has when

(21:16):
you're allowed to upload videoto it is that it's totally
filled with porn, but they don'tseem to have that.
What they do, though, have isthey've got I mean, if I can
quote from the articleeverything from lascivious
critiques of skin flicks veryTimes word, isn't it?
Lascivious?
Lascivious critiques of skinflicks to audio erotica and

(21:39):
reels of ASMR sex sounds.
I had to look that up.
I didn't even know what thatmeant.
You didn't know what ASMR meant, no, All right granddad Gosh.

Speaker 5 (21:54):
Well, I'm sorry, I apologise for not having a
smutty mind and going after it.

Speaker 4 (22:00):
So, yes, so it appears that porn is definitely
on the platform, but audio only,which is weird, which I then
don't understand how anybodymakes any money out of that,
because I can't quite work outhow you're going to make any
money out of audio only porn onSpotify.

(22:21):
That doesn't seem to have arevenue share.

Speaker 5 (22:24):
But if it's got well again that.
I do recall we had a story acouple of years back about a
female led network which wasdelivering audio based
pornography and again, a genreand a market space that I didn't
realise would be.
You know there as a niche, butit exists and again, if you

(22:48):
stick ads around it and youstick other things, I'm sure
there is a market for it.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
Well, I suppose so.
I suppose so.
There was, by the way, onsatellite radio in the US.
There was a porn channel onthere which fills me with slight
concern, all of theseone-handed truck drivers in the
middle of the night.
Anyway, moving on, you spottedthis one.

(23:14):
So we've been talking aboutDaniel X selling boatloads of
Spotify shares, and you spottedwhat he has sold, what he has
spent all of this new money thathe has on.

Speaker 5 (23:26):
Yeah, I thought you know, okay, he's taken out, you
know, a good half billion plusof money out of Spotify and I
thought, ah, he's got this newhealthcare business in London
that he's opened up and Ithought that's what he's put his
money into.
He's going to grow those out.
That's brilliant.
Well done, daniel.
Or he's basically taken themoney and he's personally
investing into barcelonafootball club I don't know why,

(23:48):
because spotify sponsor it.
But no, sadly, he's investingin a company called helsing,
which is an ai driven militarydrone company.
So he's got a fund thatactually invests into this
german company that's producingdrones and physical hardware.
Now for, I guess, the Ukrainewar.

(24:09):
Now some people say, well, okay, it's on the side of Ukraine,
so that makes it okay.
It doesn't make it okay with me.
I think anyone who'sprofiteering out of war and what
is certainly misery is not okayin my books.
Fundamentally, I don't thinkit's good news that Daniel's
doing this.
I think there are moral linesright.

(24:31):
So my wife was offered to go onto a gambling company in Cyprus
many years ago.
We just turned it down.
It's not something ethically webelieve in, that you should
profiteer off people's miseryfrom gambling.
I wouldn't have joined Wonga,for example.
I just think that company with4,000% interest rates was

(24:54):
morally wrong, but the UK VCmarket couldn't wait to invest
into that company.
They fell over themselves to dothat and again this feels wrong
.
Daniel, I don't think youshould be doing this.
I think there's many otherplaces you could put your money
that would be better served and,I think, would have better
value.

Speaker 4 (25:15):
Well, he is quoted in the Financial Times as saying
I'm sure people will criticiseit and that's okay.
So there we are.
But yes, so that is what he isdoing, which is all a bit
disappointing Elsewhere going onin terms of Spotify legal
problems.
By the looks of things.

(25:36):
What's this story about, samWell?

Speaker 5 (25:41):
the FTC in America, which sort of wakes up every now
and again and does things, butit seems that two senators have
got their knickers in a twistabout Spotify.
Converting standard premiumsubscriptions into higher cost
bundle subscription changed theterms which meant they didn't

(26:02):
have to pay out as much tosongwriters for royalties for
music publishers, and by doingthis they think they've harmed
both the consumer, becausethey're not funding correctly
new artists, and, equally,they're clearly directly
affecting the artists.
Now the mechanical licensecollective, which I'd never

(26:24):
heard of before, sued Spotifyfor allegedly undercompensating
songwriters and publishers, butthey lost that lawsuit in
January.
And so again, what we have nowis a situation where and it's
not just an isolated situationyou hear it all the time from
songwriters and artists thatSpotify don't pay, and your

(26:47):
counter argument, james, hasalways been it's not Spotify,
it's the music publishers, thedistributors, the companies in
between that are not paying outthe money to the artists.
So the perception, therefore,is the artists feel that Spotify
aren't paying them and the FTCfeel that actually, the change

(27:08):
of the compensation paid out byreducing it further is not a
good thing, so they're goingafter Spotify.

Speaker 4 (27:18):
Well it's, yeah, it'll be interesting to see
quite what happens there.
I mean, I think it's.
You know, there's lots ofpeople that try to take people
to court in the US and itdoesn't always seem to go
anywhere.
But yeah, interesting to take apeek at that.
You have a little storyunderneath here which says that

(27:42):
Spotify's SOA, spotify OpenAccess, is going away.
What's all this about?

Speaker 5 (27:49):
Well, it's not an official story.
This is my perception and Ithink I should be very careful.
Look, I think Spotify, afterthe Apple lawsuit, are going to
sit back and go.
How can we make money?
We have left money on the tablebecause we couldn't do it
before.
So in the Spotify app, the ideawas that you would get a Patreon

(28:13):
or a memberful account or you'dget a tech career account or
whatever right.
You'd pay your money on athird-party app or a third-party
website and then tokenize itthrough a Spotify open access,
which was an OAuth access, whichwould verify that you'd paid
somewhere else and you couldhave the playback.

(28:34):
Now, if you're on Spotify andyou have market pressure for
revenue, which they do, andvideo, as we said, isn't going
as good as they thought, thenyou need to come up with another
revenue stream, and I think therevenue stream that they will
sit back and say hang on, howmuch did?
Yeah, those guys at Patreonmade a ton of money last quarter

(28:56):
, and so did Memberful.
I think we can take all thatmoney and we can just directly
do it, and I think that's whereit will go next.

Speaker 4 (29:04):
Yes, well, that'll be interesting to end up seeing.
I didn't realise that all ofthe documentation for Spotify
Open Access is open itself.
It's on GitHub, it turns out,so I'll be reading through all
of that.
But yes, interesting in theworld of Spotify, as ever, which

(29:28):
is always good.
You were just mentioningPatreon there and we have seen
some numbers, haven't we?
In terms of how Patreon havebeen doing.

Speaker 5 (29:37):
Yeah, look, patreon is a really interesting company,
I think the last couple ofweeks my perception of the
podcast industry is that qualitycontent is moving behind
paywalls, and that's not justPatreon, but we're seeing it
with Substack as well, and thenumbers that came out really did
surprise me.
We've learned that the Therapyfor Black Girls earned about

(30:00):
$2,000 in May Okay, nice number.
Wondry's Red Handed earned$59,000 a month and the Yard
from the Roost earns $242,000 amonth, which again goes back to
my point about Spotify.
Soa, those numbers aresignificant.
That's just three podcasts,right?

Speaker 4 (30:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (30:22):
Multiply that by the number of podcasts currently
behind Patreons Paywall and Idon't think that this is going
to be a space that Patreon isgoing to be able to protect for
much longer.

Speaker 4 (30:32):
No, it's interesting seeing that and, you know, some
of those numbers are incredibleas well.
I mean, I should probably saythat PodNews is closer to
therapy for black girls than itis to any of the other two that
you mentioned there, butnevertheless, every little helps
.
Podnewsnet slash Patreon, butyes, the numbers for some of

(30:58):
these shows are very largeindeed.
Only this week, we also saw JoeBudden doing a bad job of
hiding the amount of money thathe's making from his Patreon.
His Patreon app, which heposted onto Instagram for some
reason, covered up some of themoney, but didn't cover it up

(31:19):
quite as much.
So if you turned up thebrightness then you could see it
.
That appears to say that hismembership earnings $902,000.
Now, it's not clear whetherthat's a month or whether that's
90 days or whatever it is.
I would point out that thestandard when you go into
Patreon is a month, so it mightbe a month, but that's quite a

(31:42):
lot of money.
So, yes, interesting seeingthat, and also interesting
seeing the third biggest newspodcast in the UK, politics Joe.
We were talking about videoearlier on and how creators are
moving, or some creators aremoving, from YouTube to Spotify.

(32:03):
Politics Joe has moved fromYouTube to Patreon, put all of
its video podcasts behind aPatreon paywall.
They say that their dependenceon YouTube is a business risk
and that its audio version wasearning twice as much revenue
anyway, even though it only gothalf the audience.
Again, it comes down to the admodel there, I think.

(32:25):
And yeah, in just five daysthey've got 350 paying
subscribers.
They're each paying $10.50 permonth for access.
So you know, just in the firstfive days they're already making
over three and a half grandfrom that.

(32:47):
So you know, I think again,you're right in terms of a lot
of these big shows moving intosome form of a paywall.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
Yeah, and I think people are getting used to it.
I don't think the perceptionthat podcasting is a second
class digital citizen is trueanymore.
You know we're used to payingfor our netflix, our prime, our
apple tv, our spotify.
Well, now, guess what?
You know I'll pay for mypodcast if I can't get it,
because I I'm a fan and I wantto support the show.

(33:20):
This, this is a wholediscussion, james, that I'm
gagging to do, as you can tell,with oscar um and you and have
this out in the open Cause.
I think just as much as Spotifywill wake up to the idea that
there's a lot of money on thetable Now.
I think Apple subscriptions isalso waking up to this idea and
I think you know we've talkedabout it, hinted about it, about

(33:43):
secure RSS.
Well, I think that's the waythat the open podcast community
is going to be able to tap intothis money, and if you're a host
, you should be sitting outfront and center, because this
is where you will make yourmoney.
Hosting as a revenue generator,I think, is a commodity.
I don't think there's enoughincrease in value that you can

(34:06):
make on it.
I think you know you get your1299, you might be able to push
it out with extra services to 20or 25, but you're not going to
make 50 or a hundred dollars amonth from your hosting for each
individual customer, but thisenabling a mechanism of securing
and hosting um high qualitycontent and our Buzzsprout.

(34:29):
Our sponsors are doing some ofthis, but they've gone halfway.
They haven't gone the whole way, because they sort of do it and
they give you a private feed.
But I think there are more openways of doing this where the
whole open ecosystem can make alot of money.
And the numbers that we'reseeing here $902,000, $242,000,

(34:50):
they are not chump change and Ithink this is the money where
the industry needs to tap intonext.

Speaker 4 (34:55):
Yeah, no, I think it should be very interesting,
particularly as ad revenue goesdown, as it's predicted to do,
or at least not to go up so fast.
So yes, Anyway, moving on.

Speaker 5 (35:10):
Now, yes, now, this is interesting because it
relates a little bit to what wejust talked about, but it's not
about the money, but it's aboutwhere people are now spending
their time and attention, wheretheir eyeballs and ear balls are
going to, because we had theunfortunate situation in the
Middle East, and where didpeople turn for their news,

(35:32):
james?

Speaker 4 (35:33):
Well, I would argue that they turned to where they
normally get their news, whichis the BBC and CNN, and blah
blah blah.
But there were also additionalshows like, for example, the
Rest Is Politics and the Rest IsPolitics US, both of whom
jumped onto YouTube.
And so, the excited pressrelease says, set new audience

(35:55):
records after releasingemergency live episodes 1.1
million video views, another685,000 audio streams in just
one single day, according to theowner Goldhanger at its peak,
more than 50,000 people watchinglive.
Now, those look like bignumbers, but I'm not sure

(36:18):
actually how big those numbersreally are if you were to look
at the great scheme of things interms of live streaming news
outlets as well in terms of livestreaming news outlets as well.

Speaker 5 (36:34):
Well, yeah, I guess that the mainstream still is the
mainstream, right, but wetalked about the US presidential
election being the podcastelection.
Joe Rogan we talked about lastweek having one fifth of people
turning to his podcast, right,so we are seeing a move away.
This reminds me of the time atTechCrunch, when you know they

(36:56):
would publish a story.
It wouldn't be fully validated,and then they'd edit it and
re-edit it and republish andrepublish, and newspapers just
couldn't keep up.
The mainstream news couldn'trepublish, and so what tech
crunch had learned to do was toput enough of a story out to be

(37:16):
first.
That was always the goal befirst to break the news right
and then go back and edit it,and go back and edit it and if
you had a correction, put thecorrection in then.
So I'm seeing with the rest ispolitics.
What they were trying to do waswe're going to get online
straight away and we're going tomake commentary and we're going
to bring the attention to usvery quickly.

(37:37):
You saw the same with the therest is us, um, and you saw the
same with news agents.
You saw the same with many ofthe others.
They're all now learning thatwhat they need to do is get
online very quickly, bring thenews.
Meanwhile, the mainstream mediais like well, we can't get
there till six o'clock for theBBC, or 10 o'clock there's no

(37:58):
breaking news interrupting thisprogramme, so they're always
going to now be behind the curve.
That's what they can't do.
They can't break the news atthe moment when it's broken.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
Well, I think there's a fair amount of um.
Obviously you know CNN and Foxnews and all of that Um and and
those are obviously available inmany different places as well.
I mean, for example, the goldhanger press release got very
excited about the fact that atpeak, 50,000 people were

(38:30):
watching live.
Well, I can tell you, at themoment, a small TV channel in
the UK of Sky News has 8.7thousand people watching their
live feed on YouTube, and that'sjust 8.7 million, james you
mean.
No, 8.7 thousand, but 8.7thousand when there's nothing

(38:51):
going on um you know I see okay,you know what I mean, and so
and so, actually, in terms of,um, you know, in terms of
numbers, it will dosignificantly better when there
is something going on 1.4 000watching uhN, by the way, the
right wing news channel forracists in the UK.

(39:16):
That sums it up, my gosh.
They've even got somethingcalled GBN2 as well, I discover,
can you believe it?
Or ABC News Australia, which isalso available on YouTube
streaming, which has got 2000people, you know, watching it
there currently.
So I, you know I love the goldhanger people to bits, but I

(39:41):
have a feeling that this pressrelease is look, we've got some
numbers that we're going toshare, but there's no context in
terms of how all of the othernews organisations did, and my
suspicion is that actually theydo pretty highly, particularly
when you're having a look atthings like CBS News, which has

(40:04):
live streams all over the place,and ABC News in the US and all
of that.
So, yeah, but good to see, youknow, good to see plucky
podcasting being there.
I have to say that wouldn't bemy first choice either to go and
watch, you know, alastairCampbell and Rory Stewart.
Yes, brilliant, but I wouldmuch rather be sitting there

(40:27):
watching CNN or watching, youknow, the bbc world news or
whatever I, I don't know, I, I'mthe reverse of you actually,
james, I don't.

Speaker 5 (40:35):
I, I literally was looking for commentary from
those podcasts.
I well, yeah, I, I I don't findmainstream media is unbiased.
I think it's very biased, Ithink it's it's government run
and I think you find that.
I mean, certainly, the bbc nowis not um neutral.
I mean its coverage is awful,genuinely awful, and biased to

(40:59):
one party and I wouldn't watchit anymore and I don't watch it.
And itv is irrelevant.
Um, cnn is goes one way and foxgoes the other.
They're not neutral either, andso I I don't find those shows
worth watching anymore, becausethe commentary, I don't think,
is if you know about the filtersthat work behind it, you know

(41:21):
that they are not neutralanymore, and I think we are.
I mean, you know Tony Pastorsaid it once again we're seeing
that in moments of fast-breakingnews, audience turn to podcasts
for explanation.
I think they turned to YouTube.
I think we as a podcastindustry need to get our act
together on the live podcasting.
We really do, and we stillhaven't, in my opinion.

Speaker 4 (41:43):
No, I certainly agree with that.
One final story before we goaround the world the Podcast
Marketing Academy released its2025 Podcast Marketing Trends
Report.
We linked to this from the PodNews newsletter this week.
Really good data in there.
It's well worth a peek.
One of the interesting thingsis that most shows saw a smaller

(42:06):
listenership this year thanlast year, this year than last
year, so the amount of peoplelistening to most shows seems to
have gone down.
There's a bit more nuance tothat in the report itself, but

(42:27):
certainly worth a look.
Lots of really interesting datain there.
Not a massive sample, butnevertheless some really
interesting, you knowinformation in there.
Apparently, business shows andshows with an interview format
grew the most, and the length ofa podcast also grew slightly.
The median episode is well.
We've already broken throughthat 36 minutes 42 seconds,

(42:49):
apparently 5% longer than lastyear.

Speaker 5 (42:52):
Well, john McDermott has an answer for us on that.
James, does he?
Yes, he says we should do adaily show.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Yeah, good luck with that.
Who's going to edit that?
John McDermott.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
Yeah, exactly, no, I'm just saying.
But I mean, you know, break theshow down to two separate shows
, and again you've got you know.
Then break the show down to twoseparate shows, and again
you've got you know, then we'llhit the median quite happily, my
goodness.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
My goodness, that's the last thing that we need.

Speaker 5 (43:17):
Right.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
Anyway, let's go around the world.

Speaker 5 (43:19):
Yes, what's first, congratulations to Sports Social
, great company that they are upin Manchester.
They've signed up some morefootball clubs.
I think it's a great strategybecause with those come the
community and so often thelistenership then, you know, is
quite significant for footballclubs.
They're very loyal to eachindividual one, so signing up

(43:42):
more football clubs is a smartidea.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
I think that makes a ton of sense signing up all of
these things Three new people,three new teams joining Notts
Forest, the Villa and the Foxesoh, look at you.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
You sound like you know what soccer is.
Now, yeah, I've got no idea.
Can I just point out I diddislike their PR release Eight
soccer clubs Come on, you're anEnglish company.
Well, that wasn't their PRrelease.
Eight soccer clubs Come on,you're an English company, it's
football.

Speaker 4 (44:13):
Well, that wasn't their press release.
That was me writing for aninternational audience oh you.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Sorry.

Speaker 4 (44:20):
Sorry, that's how it goes.
I think what I normally try anddo is I normally get the word
football and the word soccer into the same story.
I think I failed on thisparticular occasion, but yes, I
have to kind of explain it forthe hard of thinking.
Staying in the UK.
This was really interesting andit goes to show that actually,

(44:42):
when you do a very niche podcastand you do your research for
that very niche podcast, youlearn an awful lot of things.
There's a very niche podcast.
You learn an awful lot ofthings.
There's a very niche podcastcalled the British Broadcasting
Century, which is celebrating acentury of its own because it's
just reached 100 episodes.
But it has found that well, thehistory books have always said

(45:08):
that the first people to do thisand that and the other in terms
of radio were all men and theywere all based in London.
And it turns out who'd havethought it?
That?
Actually women, lots of womendoing things first in UK radio
and not getting any recognitionwhatsoever.
Similarly, lots of peopleoutside of London also doing

(45:32):
things first.
As an example, the first songthat was played on the BBC was
played in Manchester, not inLondon.
The first radio drama waswritten by somebody called
Phyllis Twigg.
Who wrote it?
But all of the history bookssay it was a bloke called

(45:52):
Richard Hughes, and so on and soforth.
In fact, the first DJ forBritish radio was somebody
called Gertrude Donisthorpe.
Imagine the jingle she had.

Speaker 5 (46:05):
So are you going to say Sarah Cox or something like
that?
No, I'm joking.

Speaker 4 (46:09):
No, so Gertrude Donisthorpe, it's normally again
what a name I know exactly.
So, yes, so well worth a peekat in terms of that, if you're
interested in the radio side.
And I was contacted with thisinformation and I thought, well,
I think the Radio Academy oughtto know about that.

(46:31):
And so thought, well, I thinkthe Radio Academy ought to know
about that.
And so I contacted them andhopefully the host of this show
will be doing a turn at theRadio Festival in late September
, because that would be good too, wouldn't it?
But still Nice.

Speaker 5 (46:45):
Put the record straight.
Put the record straight.
Okay, let's whiz over down toyour way.
What's going on down under?

Speaker 4 (46:52):
There's a new female-led podcast network here
in Australia.
It's called Kind Regards.
So nice to see those Whiskingover to Germany and for the
first time there, podcasting isnow bigger than radio for young
people, 18 to 29-year-olds andonce the preserve of men, it's
now women who are listening.
Are we getting a theme moreoften?

(47:13):
Yes, they're taking over sam.
What?
What can we do to stop this?

Speaker 5 (47:20):
nothing that's what my wife told me, anyway um, so,
uh.

Speaker 4 (47:26):
yes, women now listen more often to podcasts, with
monthly listening more thantripling for them since 29.
Well, they can multitask betterthan we can, so they're good.
Yes, correct.
If you would like to see thefull report, we are the only
place where you can get the fullreport in English, which is
nice, and if you are asubscriber to the Pod News

(47:46):
newsletter, podnewsnet, slashextras is where to grab that.
If you're not a subscriber,tough, you need to be a
subscriber, because we've hiddenit behind our very, very, very
soft registration wall there.
But trying something there.
Actually, when you download it,it says can we share the domain

(48:10):
name of your email so that thecompany know, firstly, how many
downloads, but also, secondly,roughly what kind of companies
are downloading it, which, ofcourse, is a slight problem,
because my domain name isgridlandnet, so it's very
obvious that it's me.
But you know we need to thinkabout that.

(48:31):
But still.
But there we are Two otherthings.
Do you like tequila Sam?

Speaker 5 (48:37):
No, I've got some really bad experiences with
tequila.
Anyone who remembers me fromMicrosoft at the break for the
border Mexican tequila drinkingnight will know that's the truth
, yes, oh my Well, jasonKalkanis, your friend.

Speaker 4 (48:55):
he ended up launching his own tequila brand as part
of the All In podcast.
He launched it on Saturdaynight.
The tequila cost $1,200 abottle and they've all sold out
already.
Wow.

Speaker 5 (49:13):
Who said grifting in America doesn't work?

Speaker 4 (49:16):
Who, indeed, would say that?
What should we launch, james?
What should we launch?
Maybe we should launch Beermats.
Beer mats.
Pod News did used to have podcoasters, right.

(49:36):
There you go.
Yes, um, so they're coasters,obviously, but for podcasting,
and uh, the idea there is, theywere sort of um, squishy squishy
coasters rather than, um, youknow, beer mats, um, and so the
idea is there that you could, uh, use that to put your your
drink on while you're editing,but also put your microphone on
while you're recording, and itwould make the noises.
Anyway, it turned out it was $25to send one of those overseas,

(50:00):
so I got rid of them all in aNew Zealand podcast conference
and also in the US.
Nielsen says streaming is nowbigger in the US than both
broadcast TV and cable TV, sostreaming is now the number one
TV platform, which I thought wasinteresting.

Speaker 5 (50:19):
Do you agree?

Speaker 4 (50:20):
Yes, I would have thought so.
Yeah, I think you know.
In terms of total time spentwatching.
Yes, I think that probablyexplains a lot in terms of the
malaise that broadcast TV is in,particularly in the US, where
broadcast TV is relativelyunwatchable in terms of the
amount of ads on there.
So, yeah, no, I can, doesn'tthis back up?

Speaker 5 (50:43):
Doesn't this back up what Goldhanger are saying, then
?
Because we've talked aboutYouTube saying that large TV is
their predominant platform now,and now you're saying Nielsen
says that streaming is nowbigger than the US broadcast TV
and then we're saying, on theback of it, live broadcasting to
those platforms that stream aregetting significant audiences.

(51:08):
I think we can see a trendthere.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
James, yes, I think we can, although I would also
say that this is technology, notcontent.
And, of course, you can watchlive TV news from a large
broadcaster on your streamingplatform.
Youtube, for example, is thebiggest streaming platform in
the US, with 12.5% of allstreaming, which is actually not

(51:32):
that much if you consider thatthere are all of those other
streamers out there.
But yeah, so that wasinteresting.
And two other things One fromChina.
You can do one from SouthAfrica.
There you go.
How's that?
One from China that I've got isthat podcasts from luxury brands

(51:53):
.
They've tried to do brandedpodcasting in China and it's not
going so well.
Apparently, according to areport in Jing Daily, people
really aren't getting thenumbers that they were expecting
out of branded content in China.
And, of course, chinesepodcasting very, very different
to podcasting everywhere else.

(52:13):
There's no YouTube in thecountry and also this podcast
isn't available in China.
Everything has to be allowlisted in China.
So we wrote a big, long articleabout this a few months or so
ago.
But yes, interesting times inChina, certainly.

Speaker 5 (52:33):
Not surprising when, after the tariffs that the
Chinese were putting out, theirwarehouses were making all the
luxury branded goods in the samewarehouse production and just
sticking a label on it and thencharging 20x or 30x more.
Yeah, not surprising, luxurybrands podcasts don't do well
over there when they know thatit's basically smoke and mirrors

(52:54):
anyway.
Um, zipping over to southafrica, friend of the show, john
savage.
He's been on the show before hepinged us to say that he
basically needs our help.
The uh production studios thathe's been co-founding for the
last six years is called Amped.
It's a really good podcast hubwith 15,000 independent podcast

(53:16):
creators.
They've got mentors.
It's free for people to use.
So if you're, you know, in CapeTown or wherever you can rock
up there, the equipment'savailable.
They will take you through howto do the whole podcast.
They even do the editing part.
Um, they've had a brand dropout and now they have a

(53:37):
short-term money issue whichthey need to solve.
They're looking to the southafrican government, but you know
they could also do with uhsponsorship help anyway.
Uh, I had a little chat withjohn and I started off by asking
him well, you know what isAmped?
First of all, let me know fromyour mouth and what's currently

(53:57):
happening with it, john.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Amped is my baby right A few lifetimes ago I was
a rock star and I was in a bandthat toured the world for six
years and one of the things Ireally saw in first world
countries is the amount ofinfrastructure and support you
get in the creative space.
But back home in Africa it'sreally different and it's
hardcore, like being a creator,being a music artist, being a

(54:21):
podcaster.
So we had this idea to see ifwe could build an ecosystem for
essentially musicians and webuilt this huge space.
It's got like world-classrecording studios.
It's got live huge space.
It's got like world-classrecording studios, got live
event space.
It's got all this stuff andit's free.
But very shortly like a year in,it moved into a podcasting
space very, very quickly andwe've been in for six years.

(54:44):
We've never applied for funding, we've never needed any help.
We have a community of 15,000.
We record over 200 episodesthere a month of podcasters.
We have five podcasting studiosand a music studio and a
YouTubing studios, video andaudio, both cameras in every
room, full crew and it'scompletely free for the creator
economy.

(55:05):
And what's happened over theselast years is we've created the
biggest podcasters.
I mean part of where the AfricaPodcast Network came from was
through the community we werebuilding at Amped.
The biggest podcasters, thesmallest podcasters and people
have just walked off the streetsaying I don't know what a
podcast is, but I want to makeone.
They all have a home at Amped.
We have masterclasses everysingle week with the biggest

(55:25):
stars.
We do networking sessionsbetween corporates and
podcasters and really it's avery rich, amazing environment.
We have hot desk space in there, free internet.
Like whenever I go in there, Inever know what's happening.
It's just an incrediblecommunity that we've been
spending over the last six years.

Speaker 5 (55:43):
So, given the enormity 15,000, that's pretty
amazing and given the fact thatyou've set this up it's free for
everybody what's the currentstate of play then?

Speaker 1 (55:58):
We're in trouble.
Like I said, we're doing thegovernment's work here.
It's impact work and it'sbuilding a community.
But we've never applied for anyfunding, we've never been given
anything, but we've just, fromday one, we've had brands come
to us and support because theywant to support the creator
industry in Africa and supportwhat we're doing and do little
deals with us and sometimestwo-year deals and three-year
deals, and so we've never reallyworried as long as the
overheads were covered and thecommunity has been thriving.

(56:21):
We've hit a snag because theoverheads for the space, as you
can imagine, is quite high.
The building is big, the gearis amazing, there's 13 staff and
our latest client we'reactually two years into a
three-year partnership deal.
They restructured at the lastminute and the funding just got
pulled immediately.
And even though we've actuallygot a line of brands who want to

(56:41):
work with us, we all know thatbrands don't move quickly.
So we've got like this three tofour month window where we're
going to be forced to close downvery, very shortly if we can't
actually just get through thenext few months.
So we're really putting anappeal out to anyone interested
investing in the creator economy, wanting to support.
We've just launched a backerbuddy crowdfunding site, anyone

(57:03):
who wants to just help get usthrough these next three, four
months and keep the longevity ofAMP running.
And so this is why, like Ireached out to you, this is a
real call to really help a lotof people, a lot of people
really rely on AMP.
We forgot to mention we alsohave post-production facilities
all over and there's thisnatural ecosystem where young
guys have come and built abusiness doing post-production

(57:25):
for the podcasters who are atAMP using our ecosystem.
So the government should reallycome along and play ball here,
but we're in a country wherethat doesn't happen always.

Speaker 5 (57:34):
So that's one thing that we've seen starting to
happen in other countries.
So let me give you someexamples.
India has invested 1 billion USdollars into the podcast
community.
We interviewed Chloe from AudioUK, the CEO, and she's knocking
on the door of number 10Downing Street begging them to

(57:56):
invest into the podcastecosystem, because we have tax
breaks for films and we have anamazing music industry within
the UK, but the creative artsaround podcasting is not
supported in the UK.
And then, only last week,canada now has started to look
at investing into podcastingbecause, again, without them

(58:20):
investing into their own nativepodcasting community, guess what
?
Donald Trump's 51st state willjust have American podcasting.
Yeah, so again with somethinglike South Africa, with
something like you've alreadycreated.
It's not like you're going tothe government and saying could
we have some money to create?
You know AMPT.
Ampt is already here, built andfunctional.

(58:42):
You're looking now for somesupport to keep this going.
Is there no opportunity thatthe government will come in and
help you at all?

Speaker 1 (58:50):
No, there is because I've been in conversations with
them.
The problem we have is timethis contract that got NFT rug
pulled from us.
It would be an absolute tragedyto close down AMP because of
time.
The reality is if they hadgiven us normal three to four
months notice, there wouldn't bea problem.
But the whole media environmentis in a bit of a shaky space
globally.

(59:10):
No one is spending moneyquickly.
We have been inundated withlove, with support, with brands
saying we want in, with abidding war to work with the
studio, but those things takereal time.
We are out of time and also thegovernment who have come and
said this is an incredibleplatform.
We're definitely going tosupport this.

(59:31):
Apply for this fund and in sixmonths you'll be eligible for it
.
So we're kind of in this funnelwhere we really are stuck and it
takes a lot for me to reach outand ask for the type of help
that I am.
But this is such a.
You know it's hard to explainif you're not from here, but the
rung of the ladder is way below.
Anywhere else, like when you'rein the UK or in America, it's

(59:55):
very easy to get to that firstrung and then it's harder to
keep climbing, but the gap frombeginning is so huge and that's
what Amped has really done.
It's had an impact on culturebecause it's given people
knowledge and information andaccess to stuff they would never
get, and there's nothing elsedoing that.
Here we are impacting thecreator economy and teaching
people how to monetize their art.

(01:00:16):
This is not like my corebusiness.
I'm running my podcast network,but my heart is like this is a
total tragedy if we can't getsupport and we're willing to
sell shares in Amt.
If someone wants to invest, itis profitable.
It's made a profit since dayone for six years.
It's a good business If you'rea record label or a podcast
network, if you want to knowwhere all the talent is, it's

(01:00:37):
here.
So there's a lot of commercialvalue for it as well.
But also if you just want tohelp, then that's Afrikaans for
throw like throw some money intothe funding bucket because it's
for a really good cause.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
So dare I ask what are you looking for to keep
things going?

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
We're looking for $100,000.
That'll keep us going for threeand a half months to four
months.
That'll be plenty.

Speaker 5 (01:01:01):
So if I want to help, first of all, where would I go
for the funding?
Give me the URL.

Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Okay, the URL is backerbuddy.
So I had to try find one ofthese crowdfundings that
actually worked in South Africa,and there are very few of them,
but the most reliable one iscalled backabuddycoza and I'll
send you the link.
It's forward slash campaign,forward slash, save dash dash,
amped dash studios, but I'llsend you the link because it's
not very memorable.
Okay, and then what I'll alsogive you, sam, if you want, is

(01:01:31):
just a link to that video that Isent you.
People can actually see whatgoes on at Amped and I think
that's quite special as well.

Speaker 5 (01:01:38):
If somebody wants to directly connect with you, John,
what would they do?

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
I think the best thing to do is email me at my
personal email address, which isjohn J-O-N, not H at the I,
t-h-e-e-y-e dot C-O dot Z-A.
They can call me.
I'll give you my phone number.
If someone wants to buy sharesin Amt, I'm open to that as well
.
Whatever it takes to keep thisbaby alive, we're willing to do.

Speaker 5 (01:02:03):
John, I wish you all the best in the world, mate.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Sam, you are the best and we really appreciate you
and Pod News.
Thank you.
Podcast events on the Pod NewsWeekly Review.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
Yes, the APA is.
The Audio Production Awardsfrom Audio UK are now open for
entry and Audible is returningas a sponsor.
You've got until mid-Septemberto enter those.
There are very good,well-thought-of awards in the UK
.
If you're eligible to enter,then please do.

(01:02:35):
Spotify has also been around forsome of these large events.
There was a big event at VidConlast week and guess what?
Lots of podcasters were there,thanks to Spotify, that were
hawking their wares over inwherever VidCon was.
So.
Good to see that.
But also good to see Spotify atCannes Lions, at the big

(01:03:00):
advertising conference going onin the south of France.
They ended up giving a fancyaward to Michael Barbaro, and
the award was the Gold CreatorMilestone Award.
They hit 500 million all-timestreams on Spotify, so he's now
got a fancy award.

(01:03:21):
Spotify said that the Daily wasthe fifth podcast to reach 500
million streams, because they'reactually the seventh because
there are two German languagepodcasts that have also reached

(01:03:41):
that milestone as well.
But anyway, congratulations tothe Daily for winning that fancy
award.
When do you suppose that we'llget that award 500 million
all-time streams on Spotify, sam.

Speaker 5 (01:03:56):
Oh, once we do the daily show, yeah right, which
john wants us to do we'll bethere next year and video
obviously, and in video we'll bethere at can next year, not a
problem.
Well, you choose.
James, would you like to go tovidcon or can?
You can't be a both right, sodo we do video or do a daily?
I mean I you choose.

Speaker 4 (01:04:15):
I think we can do both, can't we?
I'm sure we can.
Other events you should bethinking about going to Podcast
Movement 2025.
Hooray, you should be going tothe Empowered Podcast Conference
September 26th to 28th inCharlotte.
How about Radio Days Asia?
That's good too.
That's in Jakarta at thebeginning of September.

(01:04:35):
I'll be there.
And Pod Summit at YYC inCalgary in Alberta.
For most of those, you can getmoney off.
Podnewsnet slash extras is theplace to go for your fancy code
in there.

Speaker 5 (01:04:51):
Now a couple of stories that just grabbed my
attention.
Smart podcasters take breaks.
This was a story in thenewsletter Weirdly James, are
you taking a break?

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
I'm taking a break next week, but only from this
show, not from the Pod NewsDaily, sadly.

Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
I'd love to know what would happen if you took a
break from Pod News Daily aswell.

Speaker 4 (01:05:15):
Well, I'll tell you what would happen.
Nothing would happen, becausethere is no way that anybody
else could publish thatnewsletter, given that there is
no.
Given that there's no you knowback what was the phrase?
Back office?
There's no fancy little buttonsto easily send yes, there's

(01:05:37):
none of that.
So that's what would happenthere.
But yes, I will be in Darwinnext week on a family holiday,
but I'm still going to keep thePod News Daily up and running in
some way, shape or form, sothat will be fun.

Speaker 5 (01:05:52):
The other story that you talked about in Pod News
Daily was a new podcast calledInternet Changemakers, and I was
listening to you and then yousuddenly mentioned somebody who
I have great admiration for,which was Vince Cerf, and so I
thought gosh, I must jump on andlisten to that podcast.
So yeah, it's called InternetChangemakers.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
Yes, it's all about the history of the internet and
is worth a listen.
And also, if you think you knowwhat you're doing in terms of
podcasting, well, why not applyfor the Stony Brook Podcast
Incubator?
They are looking for their nextcohort and it's a two semester

(01:06:34):
programme.
It provides hands on editorial,technical and professional
training for audio creators atall levels.
Now they've got some amazingguest speakers.
Some of those guest speakersValerie Geller, Lauren Purcell,
ira Glass some really, reallybig names.
I did notice when I went andlooked at the guest speakers
that they are all from theUnited States of America.

(01:06:56):
So clearly nobody else in therest of the world has anything
to teach the Americans when itcomes to making audio.
So I'm delighted to learn thatand I am hoping that they change
that for next year, butnevertheless, I'll submit to us.

Speaker 5 (01:07:12):
You know, maybe we should go onto that incubator.
You know, we can learnsomething.

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
Yeah, yeah, that'll be an entertainment.

Speaker 5 (01:07:19):
I'd love us to do that and rock up.
That'd be so funny.
The Tech.
Stuff, tech Stuff On the PodNews Weekly Review.

Speaker 4 (01:07:26):
Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the
Pod News newsletter.
Here's where Sam talkstechnology.
What have we got here, sam?

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
Well, actually more likely you're going to talk
about this section than me.
It's the apple showcase hero.
What is the apple showcase hero, james?

Speaker 4 (01:07:42):
yes, so the apple showcase hero is some art, um,
that apple would like.
If they are going to promoteyour podcast, then you have to
now give them um different pieceof artwork, not just your
square podcast thumbnail, butalso something called showcase

(01:08:03):
hero art, which is very wide andnot very high, and those make
the buttons that you see in theApple podcasts app.
So, and they're basicallysaying, if you don't have
Showcase Hero art, then we'renot going to consider you
anymore.
So that's interesting.
What is also interesting isthat they're specifically asking

(01:08:26):
about trailers.
So I think we can probablyguess what might be happening
next there.
So nothing for you to worryabout if you're not doing Apple
Podcasts promotion, if you'renot filling out that exciting
form to get more push in theApple Podcasts app.
But yeah, you will have toproduce this new artwork and,

(01:08:49):
currently at least upload it toApple, which you have to do
through a fancy form.

Speaker 5 (01:08:57):
Yeah, and they give you a graphic to show what it
might look like as well.

Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
So now taking this further and, by the way, they
require it as a PSD file, as alayered PSD file, which is a
Photoshop file.
I don't have Photoshop, so whenI made the graphics for the Pod
News Daily, which I did do acouple of years ago, I actually
had to pay somebody, because Idon't have Photoshop and so,

(01:09:23):
therefore, I had to pay somebodythat did so.
I think it's a bit grumpy, butI suppose what can you do?

Speaker 5 (01:09:31):
Well, look, the lovely term showcase hero sounds
great.
Fundamentally, it's a bannerright, nothing more, nothing
less when you look at it, andthey can then slice and dice it
based on screen size.
So we have, within thepodcasting 2.0 community, had a
banner tag proposed.
Russell Harrowworth from Pod 2proposed it back in May 2023.

(01:09:55):
And Dave Jones, the Podsage,has also been updating the
images tag to include thesupport for the Apple Hero as
well.
So really, james, withoutsounding trite, isn't it just a
banner that gets placed into theRSS feed that Apple can then
just ingest if they want to?

Speaker 4 (01:10:15):
Well, wouldn't that be good.
So just to correct you, thepodcast images tag is going away
.
It will be the first tag to bedeprecated.
The podcast images tag will nolonger exist.
There is a new tag which iscoming, called the podcast image
tag.

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
Oh yes, because that clears it up for me.

Speaker 4 (01:10:37):
And there's a reason why Dave is doing that.
And firstly, brilliant thatPodcasting 2.0 is now grown up
enough to go.
You know what, when we make amistake, we should actually say
now we've made a mistake, we'renot going to support that tag
going forward.
I think that this is abrilliant move and I'm very,
very pleased to see that thepodcast image tag is very

(01:11:00):
different, so it couldn't bemade backwards compatible with
the images tag.
But what that has in it is it'sgot a thing called a purpose
field and the purpose field.
You can say that this is abanner for Russell, you can say
that this is a, you know, asmall thumbnail, if you like, or
you can say that this is anApple showcase hero purpose, and

(01:11:27):
then whatever is looking atyour RSS feed, the theory is can
go OK, I know what to do withthat image and I know what that
image is for, and so all of that, I think, makes perfect sense.
I would be very keen to see asI'm sure, frankly, that Apple
would to see these specialimages just embedded in the RSS

(01:11:53):
feed.
That makes them available toall apps and also makes them
available so that Apple doesn'thave to deal with all of this
uploading and downloading andvery, very manual work in terms
of sticking those images intotheir app.
I just noticed that the actualdemo example can't be right,

(01:12:26):
because it has today explainedjpg, but you just said they have
to be PSD.
Suggestion for thedocumentation has been that that
width is taken out.
But this is the beauty ofworking on this standard in an
open way.
It just means that everybodycan actually do that, so yeah,

(01:12:48):
so I think it's a nice piece ofwork.
Now, hopefully, we're not goingto get to a stage where we've
done this without Apple havingany input whatsoever.
Apple can always, of course,turn around and say we're not
going to use this yet, but if wewere going to use it, these are
the things that we would likechanged, please.
That would be a brilliant thingif Apple were to do that comes

(01:13:12):
around to giving some feedbackinto this spec so that maybe at
some point in the future theyactually turn around and start
ingesting all of this stuff.

Speaker 5 (01:13:23):
Yeah, Now moving on very quickly, then.
Pocket Cast has addedtranscripts to its web player.
What's it doing?

Speaker 4 (01:13:31):
Yes, so if you have your own transcript using the
Podcasting 2.0 transcript tag,then that's cool and it'll
appear in there.
If you don't have your owntranscript, then one will get
made for the listener if theyare a plus or patron subscriber,
which I think makes sensebecause it costs money to get

(01:13:53):
these things done.
I think makes sense because itcosts money to get these things
done.
It looks very cool.
It's got named voices in thereas well.
So if you're producing your owntranscript, then you can make
it look very smart and youshould see a transcript for this
show appear in the web playerof Pocket Cast.
It's been, of course, availablein the app for the last couple
of months as well.

Speaker 5 (01:14:16):
Congratulations to Ellie Podrolls.
Pocket Casts, along with TrueFans, are one of the apps that
support podrolls.
You've been doing some work,james I assume because it's on
your website with Daniel J Lewisto improve the number of
examples that people can see forhow to do a pod role.

Speaker 4 (01:14:35):
Yeah, so on the podcasting2.org website we are
just doing a bit moredocumentation and a bit more
sort of examples of how thingswork and pod role which stupid
name.
Let's call them creatorrecommendations.
That is something that you knowI've added a bunch of artwork

(01:14:57):
for, so you can actually seewhat it looks like in Pocket
Casts and in various otherplaces.
So there's a full guide to that.
Anybody can edit it, not justme.
So if anybody else wants to addtheir website True Fans to that
, then they would be more thanwelcome.
Just podcasting2.org, find thepage in the documentation

(01:15:22):
section and hit that buttonmarked Edit this page.
And it couldn't be easier.
I might do that later.

Speaker 5 (01:15:29):
Yes, wonder where that came from.
Now, moving on the searchengines, there's a new one
around James, called POSUMA.
What is POSUMA?

Speaker 4 (01:15:40):
Yes, it is a.
Now it's in German language fora start, and so therefore it's
quite difficult to use unlessyou speak German.
But the idea behind it is thatit focuses on content filters
rather than on algorithms.
So you can basically say Iwould like a business podcast, I
would like it to be 12 minuteslong.

(01:16:01):
Go and it will find a businesspodcast like that for you.
So they're calling it morediverse and fairer.
Not so sure They've got somefunding from a university, but
you know it's worth giving it aplay anyway.
There's more details of that inthe Pod News newsletter.

(01:16:21):
I think I take their pressrelease in German, but then
there's a link to get thattranslated automatically.
So it's worth a peek.
And talking about Germans, arewe?
We are Orphonic.
Didn't know Orphonic, I didn'tknow that's wild yes.
The good folks at Orphonic.
So they make some very, veryclever audio treatment tools

(01:16:49):
which we use every single week.
If you're listening to thisshow on Buzzsprout, you will.
You know as you are then thisshow goes through Orphonic
Buzzsprout.
Call it magic mastering, butit's actually Orphonic under the
hood.
But Orphonic have added a newfeature if you use them directly
, which removes coughs, throatclearing, sneezing and similar

(01:17:14):
sounds sniffs as well, I guessjust in time for hay fever
season or flu season.
So they are so bright, soclever.
I ended up having I think Iended up seeing them at the last
podcast movement in Washingtonand we went out for a nice
Mexican lunch, I seem toremember, and that was great fun

(01:17:35):
.
But yeah, they are so, soclever working with audio, so
it's well worth taking a peek atthat.

Speaker 5 (01:17:42):
Another company that's been doing audio
enhancement is a company calledHans.
Who are they?

Speaker 4 (01:17:48):
They are a company, I think, based somewhere in the
Scandinavian countries, or maybein Germany actually as well, in
fact.
But anyway, it turns out thatquite a lot of new Intel laptops
have specific chips in themthat can deal with quite a lot
of the AI.
Now that you need to do thingslike noise removal or things

(01:18:12):
like stem separation so gettingrid of the vocal from a track,
for example you can do thatdirectly on your laptop if
you've got a particular chip inthere from Intel, and so this
company called Hance has donethat.
That looks to me reallyinteresting, because you can
imagine in a couple of years,you can imagine something like

(01:18:34):
Descript or something likeHindenburg, actually using AI
generated tools to do what we'recurrently doing with Adobe
Podcast or with Studio Sound orwith whatever else is going on.
So very, very smart is that,yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:18:54):
And just worked out their name.
Why?
Because they've got enhancementcompany.

Speaker 4 (01:18:59):
Hans, oh nice, hans.
Yes, very good, very good,that's nice.
And talking about AI, iheart isusing AI translated, is using
AI translations to produce 10 ofits popular podcasts in lots of
different languages.
So, on Purpose with Jay Shetty,your friend will be translated

(01:19:22):
into all manner of otherlanguages.
I think they're starting withSpanish and then moving on to
French, arabic, portuguese,hindi and Mandarin, with plans
to expand even more in thefuture.
There's a long article which Ilinked through to, where they
basically say they've beentrying to do this for a while.
They haven't found a goodenough tool, but they've now

(01:19:43):
found one.
It's a tool which is run by acompany called Speech Lab, which
I've never heard of, but yes,so all of that looks quite
interesting and quite smart.

Speaker 5 (01:19:54):
Yeah, they're doing quite a few shows they're doing,
you know.
I wonder why they picked those.
I mean, we've talked about itin the past.
Uh, there was an interview, uhwith mr beast about how he is
reliant on the youtubetranslation, which is critical
to his business, because I thinkhe said something like 85 of
his audience is outside of theenglish-speaking language.

(01:20:16):
Um, so I, iheart, are pickingup on that as well, that they
can actually get a massiveaudience outside the US for
English speaking languages.
It'll be interesting to seewhat the uptake in that is after
they've done it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
Yes, it will be, and I think they've chosen these
quite carefully in terms of thetypes of shows, because there
seems to be one of each show.
You know, basically in herethere's shows about things that
you can learn, there's showsabout history, there's shows
about sort of lifestyles, thingsabout true crime, just so they

(01:20:53):
can find out what works indifferent markets.
So, yeah, I think that there'sdefinitely, you know, some
interesting work going on there,just to find out what you know,
how you could actually use thisparticular tool.
It turns out that it sounds asif it's not that expensive to do

(01:21:14):
, and so, therefore, they canprobably move relatively quickly
to just see what happens andthen move on.

Speaker 5 (01:21:22):
Would this be separate RSS feeds or would they
use something like thealternative enclosure?
I doubt they're going to usethe alternative enclosure and I
think you've said in the pastthat it's probably better if
they do use separate feeds, butI would like to see single feeds
with multiple alternativeenclosure languages in.

Speaker 4 (01:21:39):
But anyway, yes, and I think I err on the side of a
separate feed if the language isdifferent.
But it would be nice to be ableto link between those feeds in
some way, shape or form.
But of course you need,everything needs to be different
if you're in a differentlanguage.
So if you're, you know so, thetitle is probably going to be

(01:22:01):
different, the artwork isprobably going to be different,
the description certainly willbe.
So I think, once you're at thatposition, I think you should
probably have a separate feed,but wouldn't it be nice to have,
in the same way that HTML does,to have oh, if you want this in
German, it's over here and todo a language link there, and

(01:22:26):
that would be very nice to endup doing.
And you know, that sounds to melike that might be a podcasting
2.0 tag in the making at somepoint.

(01:22:50):
Yes, there are so many differentways to get in touch with us
fan mail, by using the link inour show notes, or super
comments, or boosts everywhereelse, or email, or, you know,
fan mail, for example, as twopeople have done this week,
which is very exciting.
You can do that by followingthe link you'll find in our show
notes, and that's somethingthat our sponsor, buzzsprout,
puts together, and very cleverit is too, and very clever it is

(01:23:20):
too.
There is a message here from7372, which turns out to be
Scott, who's host of the TalkWith History podcast.
Hello Scott, in Alhambra inCalifornia I've watched lots of
very good pantomimes in theAlhambra, but that was the
Alhambra in Bradford which Isuspect is something different,
the Alhambra in Bradford, whichI suspect is something different
.
Anyway, he says gentlemen, onthe topic of video podcasts, I

(01:23:40):
feel like your campaign againstvideo steady on is starting to
alienate those of us podcastersthat have a video component.
I have a small but growingpodcast, but I was video first
with a YouTube channel.
I recently had my first everpodcast sponsor and was able to
sell much higher ad ratesbecause I had a video aspect,
albeit small, for video.
I agree that podcasts should beaudio first, but video isn't a

(01:24:04):
bad thing, it's just a differentthing.
Thanks for the show and for theanalysis.
Yes, I think that's veryinteresting feedback, scott.
What do you think Sam?

Speaker 5 (01:24:15):
Yeah, look, I think we've gone through the video
bashing period, We've gonethrough the AI bashing period.
I mean, again, you know well,let's be fair, you know, when
anything new comes around,change is not the thing that
most people adopt first.
I think now that we'rebeginning to see the word
creators used more than we arejust the generic podcaster.

(01:24:37):
So I think people are startingto realize that they're
multi-channel.
We talk about omni-channel allthe time.
So, yeah, look, I think we justhave to get over ourselves,
right?
Those people that want to do aYouTube video or a Spotify video
, crack on, you know, and if youreach a bigger audience because
of it and you get more revenuethrough advertising, well done

(01:25:01):
you.
It's the amount of work you putin.
I guess that determines it.
We don't have anything reallyagainst it.
I think what's happened is theword podcast has been hijacked.
You know we talked about itearlier Spotify podcast and news
podcast that you mentioned fromAustralia.
You know they're using the termpodcast because it latches onto

(01:25:22):
the user quickly, it frames itfor them to what type of content
it might be, even though it'snot specifically a audio podcast
, which is where the wordoriginated from.
So, look, let's get overourselves.
If you want to do it, crack on.
If you don't, no worries.

Speaker 4 (01:25:38):
Yeah, I think we're not necessarily campaigning
against video.
Certainly I'm not campaigningagainst video.
I'm just urging quite a lot ofcaution, and I'll give you an
example of that caution.
This is a clip of the Hot Messpodcast, which has been away for
the last couple of weeks andlast couple of months in fact

(01:26:01):
but is now coming back.
I'm going to play a bit.
It starts with the host of HotMess telling us what she's doing
with her show, and then it goesinto something else.
So let's have a quick listen tosome of this.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
So Hot Mess is going to be on my Alex Earle YouTube
channel and it's also going tobe on the Hot Mess channel on
Spotify, Because I know thatthere's so many of you guys, my
Earle girls I love you guysdearly who come back and listen
to Hot Mess every single week,or you did for the past year and
a half.
So while it was on pause, Istarted vlogging on YouTube.
Today we're going to seeSally's apartment in New York

(01:26:35):
City.
Hey, MTV, welcome to my club.
Everyone's trying to decide ifwe're going to day three.
Come with us on a family tripto Disney.
Give a warm, loud and a welcomemy special chicken.
We're about to do our firstshot together.

Speaker 4 (01:26:55):
It is officially time for our Coachella bidding.
Lady Gaga just went back on NowI understood the first half of
that.
There she is talking about howshe's been trying vlogging and
things, and then we got thatjust sort of random.
Here's lots of music and here'slots of audio that doesn't
necessarily fit together verywell lots of audio that doesn't

(01:27:17):
necessarily fit together verywell.
Anyway, it turns out this is aYouTube video which has been
also made available as a pieceof audio.
None of that bit makes any sense, none of the clips.
It was lots of clips of herwearing virtually no clothing,
running around doing, you know,whatever it is that influencers
do these days, but none of thatmakes sense for an audio
listener.

(01:27:37):
And that's the concern thatI've got.
If we end up with bad audiowhich the beginning of that was
because it was just on a lav micin some holiday destination
followed by random bits of musicand clips that make no sense
without video, then I'm justconcerned about what that means

(01:27:59):
in terms of what the future of apodcast is.
And it's not just me saying thatTriton's Sharon Taylor posted
something this week sayinglisten up, your audio audience
is watching you, not necessarilyyour podcast.
I'm basically saying that wehave to be careful not to break

(01:28:21):
the audio experience in our rushto video, and I think that that
audio is a really good exampleof just breaking the audio
experience.
What's going on there, and do Ifeel included in that, or do I
feel excluded because I can'tsee any of the fancy pictures?
That's the concern that I'vegot really with all of this

(01:28:43):
Quite.
Apart from what it means for usas an industry, what it means
for us as listeners, the concernthat I've got is that if we're
not careful, we break what makespodcasting great by doing stuff
like that.

Speaker 5 (01:28:58):
The jury will adjudicate over time.
I guess Vote with your ears.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
Anyway, thank you, scott, for the fan mail.
I appreciate it.
Also.
We've got another piece of fanmail, which is excellent fan
mail.
What does this one say?

Speaker 5 (01:29:14):
another piece of fan mail, which is excellent fan
mail.
What does this one say?
It's from Wilmington, delaware.
It says I really enjoy andappreciate your weekly show.
It's been really great athelping me build my three shows
and my media network,askralphcom.
Well, you're very welcome andthank you for listening.

Speaker 4 (01:29:31):
Yes, this is excellent.
This is our 20th supporter,ralph Estep.
Thank you, ralph.
I hope I've pronounced yoursurname correctly.
If I was a good presenter, whatI would have done is gone to
listen to one of your threepodcasts and actually heard you
say what your name was, but Ihaven't yet done that.

(01:29:52):
One of those is called Grit andGrowth Business, which is all
about strategies that growbusinesses, also financial
information, and also a podcastcalled the Truth Unveiled, which
you can find wherever you getyour podcasts.
So, ralph, thank you so muchfor doing that.
Really appreciate it, and thatgoes to both Sam and myself.

(01:30:16):
Much appreciated.

Speaker 5 (01:30:17):
Now for some boosts, james.
What have we got?

Speaker 4 (01:30:20):
Yes, we've got a ton of boosts in here.
Seth 979 sats using TrueFans,loving this episode and
listening on the beta of theTrueFans app.
How's the TrueFans app going,sam Well?

Speaker 5 (01:30:33):
it's no longer a beta James, it's now in the actual
app store.
So I'm very happy about that.
In fact, I didn't even know,because apple didn't tell me.
Somebody told me that it's goneinto the app store, which was
even funny.
I'm walking my dog and they'regoing.
Oh, by the way, do you knowyour apps in the app store?
No, won't be in the app store.
No, I had a.
I had a issue to deal with.
Oh, it's in the app store.

(01:30:53):
Really excellent, thank youvery much.
Wow, um, so yes, that was quitefunny.
Um, but yes, it's great thatit's in there.
Um, I'll update where we arewith the rest of it in the
section later below yes,excellent.

Speaker 4 (01:31:05):
Well, I'm looking forward, uh, to that.
Um, also looking forward to youbeing in the android app store,
uh, which you're not yet by thelooks of things, but, uh, every
very soon.
Yes, a row of ducks from theUgly Quacking Duck.
Thank you, bruce.
I think last time we said, well, why don't you do your own
podcast?
And he said, oh, if only, ifonly I had great content, then

(01:31:28):
we would be loved.
No ads needed, ha, podcastingis still fun.
Pod News does another greatepisode.
Thank you both, sam and James.
73s, well, 73s to you too.
Thank you Most appreciated.
What else have we got here,neil Velio?

Speaker 5 (01:31:44):
Yeah, neil Velio said you could get a video version
of this show with minimal extraediting in Descript within 15
minutes.
I'm not saying you should, butyou definitely can, and it would
look pretty decent.
Underlord might well be takingour souls as payment, though,
which is the ai within d script,but yeah, they just want us to

(01:32:04):
hand the keys to our kingdom tothem.
Reference to the youtube clipat the beginning look um a.
We couldn't do a video becausewe use clean feed and so there
is no video element to this.
But all the interviews that Ido are done with Descript and,
yes, I have thought aboutputting out video clips from it
and it's pretty quick to do.
But again, it's just the amountof work and time required and

(01:32:27):
I'm not sure that the returnwould be relevant.

Speaker 4 (01:32:31):
Yeah, and I thought it was interesting, Dallas
Taylor, who does a podcastcalled 20,000 Hertz.
He has just started a YouTubechannel but he's not doing his
podcast there.
He's doing a separate type ofshow for YouTube and one of the
interesting things that he'sdone there is he has interviewed

(01:32:53):
people for that particular showand he's still done all of the
tidying up of the audio and thede-umming and the de-erring and
everything else.
So it looks slightly weirdbecause there's quite a lot of
jump cuts in there, as peoplesay ums and errs all the way
through, but it's a great watch.
But again, it's very, verydifferent.
I simply don't necessarily havethe time in order to edit that

(01:33:17):
whole thing together.
If Hindenburg, the editing toolthat I used, edited video
alongside the audio, then Imight consider it, but at the
moment it doesn't.
So I'm going to steer wellclear of that.
But thank you, Neil, for theidea.
John McDermott, 1887 Sats.
You're both right about therest is and agents.

(01:33:39):
We were talking about thesebrands that both Goldhanger and
Global have put together.
I think Goldhanger, he says, isputting out the best shows out
there and I discovered a lotbecause of the name.
However, I still get confusedbetween the rest is politics and
the rest is history.
Really, Also, I see true fansto dollars and I have topped two

(01:34:01):
.
What does it say?
Also, I see true fans todollars and I have topped two
dollars, and I don't know ifthat's a lot or I'm cheap.
Well, I mean, it's two dollars.

Speaker 5 (01:34:13):
I'm wondering whether he's saying what's he talking
about?
I'm wondering whether he'stopped.
What's he talking about?
Whether he's topped up hiswallet or he's supporting this
show.
I can check for $2, because youcan directly support the show
for $2 or $3 or $10 or whateveramount, and then, when the
episode drops, you get apercentage of that $2 based on

(01:34:36):
the length of the show.
So we don't do what Patreondoes, which is just this is why
the show is always so long.
Yes, Seven hours coming soon.

Speaker 4 (01:34:50):
Anyway, thank you, john, much appreciated.
And yes, I think littlesub-brands are a good idea.
What else have we got in here?
We've got Silas fromLinux1234Sats talking about Home
Assistant and basically sayingit's a thing put together by
mostly seemingly random people,a bit like podcasting.

(01:35:11):
Fair enough, and he also saysso.
We have actually found the onemethod to make the slowest
method of communication evenslower by having conversations
between different boosters inthis show.
Nice, yes, I think you'reabsolutely correct there.
So, silas, thank you for that.
And finally, mike Dell.

(01:35:32):
Bloober is Mike Dell, 1,701 satsfrom Castomatic and the message
is testing Albi Hub.
That was actually sent to thePod News Daily.
Mike, you can test the Albi Hubas much as you like by doing
that.
That's absolutely fine.
So, thank you.
It'd be interesting to find outactually, given that that's
gone to the Pod News Daily,whether or not I got that in

(01:35:56):
Strike, because Strike, ofcourse, uses an LN address or an
LN URL, so I might take a peekat that.
Thank you so much to ourtalented 20, weeklypodnewsnet,
including our brand new RalphEstep Jr, also Brian Brian
Ensminger and Neil Velio, foryour kind support, and the rest

(01:36:20):
of the talented 20, is that whatwe're going for?

Speaker 5 (01:36:24):
I couldn't think of a preposition, so that's the one
I've gone for.

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
yes, oh, preposition, listen to you Went to a grammar
school.
Somebody went to army school,so did you.
So don't knock it I didn't goto army school ah, that's true
so what's happened for you thisweek, sam?

Speaker 5 (01:36:42):
otherwise well uh, as I said, true fans everywhere is
our strategy.
So we're in the app store.
We've now submitted the googleandroid play store version just
waiting for, and we've alsosubmitted the updated app for
Apple TV, apple Watch andCarPlay.
So, again, hopefully by nextweek certainly sooner we'll be

(01:37:07):
on all of those platforms andwe're also we submitted our Fire
TV because that's really simple, because basically, it's a PWA
within a wrap of Chrome, andthat's the way they do.
It's a pwa within a wrapperchrome and that's the way they
do it.
That's not us determining that.
It's not like you can do it ina native app.
So it actually worked outreally quick.
So, yeah, so we should be onandroid, fire tv and multiple

(01:37:28):
tvs and in car very, veryshortly very nice.

Speaker 4 (01:37:32):
I do notice that on the google app store or the
google play store, there is anapp called true fan, and true
fan looks quite fascinating.
It's a way of you play quizzesand if you play enough quizzes,
you win a personalized videomessage from your favorite
celebrities how.
Oh, how dodgy does that soundit's not us.

(01:37:55):
Yes, not you.
Not us no gosh Anyway.
So, hls, what are you doinghere?

Speaker 5 (01:38:10):
We're taking some of the most popular shows on our
platform and we're testingconverting those through FFmpeg
into HLS and then we're going totest broadcasting those out
just to see what the cost is,what the bandwidth requirement
is on the CDN and various otherbits and pieces.

Speaker 4 (01:38:25):
So yeah, we're just doing some testing very nice,
okay, well, that all sounds fun.
And then you've got a fewthings in terms of roadmap and
then, and then I think we haveto hear about paddle, don't we?
So anyway, a few things in yourroadmap.
Um, blue sky.
It says here and verify tag.
What are those two things?

Speaker 5 (01:38:43):
yeah, so, uh, the way that apple did it with the
verify txt tag for um hosts,we're doing the same thing.
So we've got a test with pod 2at the moment where they're
going to use the verify taginstead of the email that we
currently do to verify or claima podcast, and that's going to
be much better.

(01:39:04):
And then, on the back of that,we gave them an api true fans
api to use, which will thenallow us to publish the activity
stream or that podcast directlyto the host.
So first party data back to thehost via our api very nice.

Speaker 4 (01:39:21):
Oh, that all sounds, uh, that all sounds fancy.
Uh, so there we are paddle.

Speaker 5 (01:39:28):
Go on then yes, I won a little tournament.
I won the local villagetournament, well, the club
tournament.
So, yes, I'm quite chuffed.

Speaker 4 (01:39:35):
Yes, moving along wow , very good, very good.
So what's happening for you,james?
Well I'm I'm looking forward toa holiday next week, um,
partial holiday.
I'll still be doing the podnews daily, but, um, I get this
show off, which is nice, um, uh,up in darwin, which is, uh,
very hot up there.

(01:39:55):
It's the only place inAustralia, on the Australian
mainland, to see any action inthe war in terms of bombings and
things.
So that was interesting.
The Second World War is theparticular war I'm talking about
.
I've got no idea what mighthappen between now and 24 hours

(01:40:15):
time.
So, yes, so that's all fun, andI've been going through the joys
of running a developer beta ofthe iPhone and the Mac and
everything else.
I'll tell you one other thingthat really annoys me about it

(01:40:37):
is so I've been playing aroundwith, obviously, all of the new
features in iOS and iPadOS andMacOS and, by the way, the
second developer beta is way,way better than the first one,
as you might expect, anyway.
And one of the things that isvery clear to say as soon as you
might expect, anyway, one ofthe things that he's very clear

(01:40:58):
to say as soon as you downloadit is this is confidential, you
must not post about it.
You must not say anything aboutit.
The only thing that you must dois you must use this for
yourself.
And I'm there like reading, youknow, all kinds of people
posting about it and doingYouTube videos about it and

(01:41:20):
everything else.
And I'm there thinking, youknow, either uphold that apple
and get very annoyed with thosepeople or not, because I've been
playing around with some of thetools and some of the tools are
very nice and they will makeamazingly good stories, but I
don't want to list, you knowthat yet, so I haven't kind of

(01:41:40):
done that.
So, um, yeah, so it's, it'sjust an odd one really.

Speaker 5 (01:41:46):
I did upgrade and I regret it already.

Speaker 4 (01:41:50):
I tell you what, um, uh, spotlight from, uh and here
I am breaking the rules.
But anyway, what Spotlight from?
And here I am breaking therules.
But anyway, spotlight inversion two is much worse than
Spotlight in version one, sothat seems to have had a
regression.
So I'm feeling already badabout upgrading as well, but
still, you know, there you go.
But anyway, that's it for thisweek.

(01:42:12):
All of our podcast storiestaken from the Pod News daily
newsletter at podnewsnet you cansupport the show by streaming
sats.

Speaker 5 (01:42:19):
You can give us feedback using the Buzzsprout
fan mail, like we have this weekin our show notes.
You can send us super commentsor boosts or become a power
supporter like the talented 20at weeklypodnewsnet.

Speaker 4 (01:42:33):
Our music is from TM Studios.
Our voiceover is Sheila Dee,our audio is recorded using
Clean Feet, we edit withHindenburg and we're hosted and
sponsored by Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.
Get updated every day.
Subscribe to our newsletter atpodnewsnet.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
Tell your friends and grow the show and support us,
and support us.
The Pod News Weekly.
Review will return next week.
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