Video and its part in podcasting - Annalise Nielsen from Pacific Content and Lower Street - Podnews Weekly Review

Episode Transcript
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James Cridland (00:00):
It's Friday, the 14th of March 2025.

Announcer (00:04):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Sethi.

I'm James.

Sam Sethi (00:13):
Cridland, the editor of Pod News, and I'm Sam Sethi,
the CEO of TrueFab.

Annalise Nielsen (00:18):
Doesn't matter who the client is or what the
type of project is.
There needs to be some strategyaround YouTube.
Youtube needs to be part of thestory, no matter what that's.

Annalise Nielsen from Pacific Content on video
podcasting and more Plus.
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Sam Sethi (01:03):
OK, live, live, live, live, live.
It's everything's live.
Right Before we get into what'sgoing on with live everywhere
else, Evergreen has launchedEvergreen Now, so tell me more
about that first.

Yeah, this is a free, ad-supported streaming TV
channel.
It works on your Apple box oryour Android phone or your Roku
television, as the Americanslove to play with.
It's a free to watch channelwhich includes films and award
winning podcasts, presumablyfrom Evergreen podcasts.
It also includes live sports,because Evergreen has a deal

(01:38):
with a particular live sport andI can't remember which it is,
but it's some college sportthing.
So, yes, evergreen Now is oneof these fast channels which is
now available.
So that's one side of the live.
Also, another side of the liveincludes things like the news

(01:59):
agents who have done their firstYouTube live, which is a big UK
political show, miss Me, whichis a show produced,
interestingly for the BBC byPersephoneca.
They did a live show, a coupleof live shows, at London's
Hackney Empire and both nightswere sold out.
They just said that their Q&Ashows will be available on

(02:20):
YouTube in podcast form, whichmakes me wonder why the BBC has
allowed that, because it's a BBCshow.
So why have they allowed thatshow to make stuff on YouTube
rather than on the BBC iPlayer?
But anyway, let's not go there.
And also, you know, lots morevideo podcasts with Michelle
Obama have been announced andCBS News have been announced and

(02:43):
goodness knows what else.
So clearly the future is allabout live.
Clearly the future, quite a lotof the future, is all about
video as well, I guess.

Sam Sethi (02:51):
Well, we keep talking about it, but I thought it
might be interesting.
Annalisa Nielsen is Head ofPodcast Strategy and Development
at Lower Street, part ofPacific Content, the acquisition
that was made last year, andshe put out a report talking
about youtube's 1 billion plays,the video strategy of spotify,

(03:11):
um, and she talks aboutsomething else called the
attention diet, and we have awonderful conversation about
women in podcasting.
Do they need an internationalpodcast day to raise awareness
for women in podcasting and whyaren't more women podcasting?
And yeah, I started off, though, by asking Annalise last year,
lower Street bought PacificContent.
You were there at PacificContent when it was purchased.

(03:34):
What's changed?
What's life been like as partof Lower Street?

Well, in a lot of ways things are similar.
I would say like my role ispretty similar across across
both companies, so I sit sort ofbetween marketing and sales.
I, you know, put togetherproposals for clients, I write
our newsletter, I do a lot ofthought leadership kind of

(03:59):
content and plan events forLower Street.
So that's maybe somethingthat's new for me at Lower
Street, but still sort of withinthe same wheelhouse, is what I
was doing at Pacific Content andI would say, like the
difference between the twocompanies or like where we're at
now, you know, pacific Contentwas previously owned by a very
large media conglomerate, sothat definitely impacted sort of

(04:20):
day to day business, and nowpart of a scrappy startup.
So there's a lot moreflexibility that comes with that
.
We are also a global team, sothere are people all over the
world across lots of differenttime zones, which is pretty cool
, and we all work remotely andso, yeah, those are the main

(04:41):
sort of differences.
I would say Lower Street also,like with the acquisition of
Pacific Content, has much moreof a broad offering, I would say
, than Pacific Content did.
Pacific Content was known for avery specific type of project,
whereas Lower Street, you know,we sort of run the gambit in
what we can offer to differentclients.
So those are, I would say, themain differences, but overall,

(05:05):
um, a lot of similarities.
A lot of my colleagues frompacific content came over to
lower street as well, so a lotof familiar faces where I am too
now I was going throughlinkedin and I saw you writing
about youtube and, of course,youtube is now the flavor of the
month.

Sam Sethi (05:23):
Everyone's talking about it allegedly being the
place that podcasting should be,and everyone's going to it.
What are your initial thoughts?

Where is YouTube in the podcast landscape
and where is video moreimportantly, within that podcast
landscape, as well, I thinkthat in a lot of ways, we
conflate video with YouTube, andI don't necessarily think that
those are the same thing, but,to start to level set, a lot of
the conversation around YouTubestarted when it became clear
that YouTube was now the numberone platform that people are

(05:53):
using to consume podcasts.
So YouTube beat out Spotify andApple Podcasts for the first
time, and that was a huge deal.
It is a huge deal.
We should definitely bethinking about that data.
The reality, though, is thatit's YouTube, and then there's
every other podcast platformthat exists out there, and, for
the most part, youtube is theonly platform that people are
using to watch video.
Now, I know that there'sexceptions there.

(06:14):
I know that Spotify is pivotingtowards video.
I know that Apple has videocapabilities.
I know that lots of podcaststhat podcast 2.0, there's lots
of video watching capabilities.
Most people don't even knowthat they can watch video
podcasts across these otherplatforms, particularly Apple,
which has always had videopodcasts, and so, for the
majority of the video podcastconsumption, that's happening on

(06:35):
YouTube.
And then the other thing I willsay is, like YouTube still only
makes up about 30% of thepodcast consumption that we see.
So, yes, it's more than Spotify, it's more than Apple still
about a third of the consumption.
So if we sort of take all ofthose things together then we

(06:56):
can say, like video consumptionprimarily happening on YouTube,
that's really still only about athird of the consumption that's
happening.
I also would say that out ofall of the consumption that's
happening on YouTube, that'sreally still only about a third
of the consumption that'shappening.
I also would say that out of allof the consumption that's
happening on YouTube, not all ofthat is video, actually video
watching.
A lot of that is consumption ofpodcasts that were published on

(07:16):
YouTube but don't have a videocomponent.
So this is like, you know,podcasts that are published with
just a static image, orpodcasts that are published on
YouTube music without a videocomponent.
So that's a big part of that aswell.
And then there's also, you know, the consumption that happens
where there is a video elementof the podcast but people aren't
actually watching that.
They're minimizing theirscreens.

(07:37):
I think we know now a hugeamount of YouTube consumption is
happening on people'stelevisions, so they're putting
it on and then they're doingother things in the background.
This is a huge trend that wesee with YouTube now and
YouTube's really leaning intothat.
You know there was a recentreport that they're beating out
traditional television forconsumption on televisions and
that's you know that consumptionmakes a lot of sense.

(07:59):
It's something to put on in thebackground.
Does that mean that people arewatching those entire videos,
those entire you know one, two,three hour long episodes?
They're not right.
It's something that's on in thebackground.
So I think all of those thingsare important for us to think
about when we think about ourvideo strategy.
When it comes to podcasts, Ithink you know there's a lot of

(08:19):
nuance in this conversation thatI think we're missing when we
just look at this data of youknow YouTube is winning podcasts
and we all need to pivot tovideo like maybe maybe video
makes the most sense for yourpodcast project, maybe it
doesn't make the most sense foryour podcast project.
Video comes with a lot ofadditional costs the majority of
the time, and to do it rightespecially, there's a lot of

(08:41):
costs involved and there's alsoa lot of sacrifices involved in
making a video podcast, becauseit means that you're sacrificing
the ability to do things thatyou can do with audio only
projects one of the things thatI've noticed recently, though,
with the high-end podcasts isthat they are moving to live as
a core strategy.

Sam Sethi (09:00):
so if you look at podcasts like the News Agent or
the Rest is Politics, or evenZateo or the Rest is Politics
USA some of the politicspodcasts I watch, so you know
now what I listen to or watchright, but they've gone live.
Why do you think they are alsomoving to live?

(09:21):
What are your thoughts?

I see what you're saying and I do see that
trend as well.
I don't know.
I think that there's alwaysbeen a bit of a live element in
podcasting.
It's just that we had a lotmore live in-person events back
in the day Before COVID.
That was a huge business linefor a lot of podcasts.
Right Like my Favorite, murderwould have massive tours that
they would do of live shows.

(09:44):
Criminal still does likemassive live show tours.
I feel like they're constantlyon tour.
So I think that's kind ofalways been there as a bit of an
element.
I think the difference is nowit's just moved to being more of
a digital experience ratherthan an in-person live
experience.
I think probably part of thiscomes from a desire, I think

(10:07):
from the audience, to interactmore with podcasters.
You have this very deepparasocial relationship that
builds between a listener and apodcaster.
We know that podcasting is veryit's cliche to say now, but
it's a very intimate medium.
You're listening to them byyourself, usually with
headphones on, although maybethat's changing now with the
rise of YouTube and peopleputting it on in the background

(10:28):
on their TVs.
But for the most part you knowthat's what's sort of been.
A strength of the medium is sortof this relationship that
builds between the listener andthe podcaster, and I think, you
know, most podcast platforms donot really support interactivity
in the way that a lot of otherplatforms, a lot of other
digital media does.
Right Like, social media reallyis built on that interactivity.

(10:51):
That's what it's for is for usto have that, you know,
connection to somebody and beingable to go back and forth with
them.
And YouTube also reallyprioritizes interactivity
between the creator and theaudience and I would say that,
you know, a live event affordsthat type of interactivity in a
way that we don't really get inother spaces in podcasting.

(11:14):
So maybe that's where part ofthis is coming from and also
maybe that's part of the push onYouTube.
Right Like, youtube has acomment section that is usually
very robust and oftentimescreators are in that comment
section responding to people.
It's more of a conversationcompared to a lot of other
podcast platforms that I knowthat there are lots of other

(11:37):
podcast platforms that do havethe ability to allow people to
leave comments or to leavereviews, but that type of
interactivity is not somethingthat's been prioritized or
emphasized across other podcastplatforms, so maybe that's part
of it.

Sam Sethi (11:51):
The last part I wanted to cover.
It's international women inpodcasting.
Right, and what does that mean?
What does that mean for you asa woman?
What does that mean for us asan industry?
Where do men fit within thatconversation?

So let me go back to one of the points that
you made.
That was around discoverability, that you said that you think
that there is a problem andJames said that there isn't, and
I think I agree with you that Ido think discoverability is a
problem.
I think it's always been aproblem in podcasting and we
haven't solved that problem yet,but I think that it used to be
the case that discoverabilitywas the issue and that if people

(12:29):
took a little extra time to dig, you could find really, really
amazing, great content.
I'm not saying that that's nottrue today.
I know that there's a lot ofamazing podcasts being made, but
I think that we are slippinginto a space where there is also
a content problem.
The quality of the content thatI'm seeing come out today it's
not the same as it was fiveyears ago.
It's just not.
We've seen like huge budgetcuts.

(12:51):
We've seen pivots towardsquantity over quality, really
because there's an understandingthat if I can just throw a
bunch of ad markers into thispodcast and pump out content
every other day, then I'm goingto make more money than I would
if I were to invest in qualitycontent.
That got a lot more downloadsover a much fewer episodes and I

(13:13):
think that, like when I talk to, when I have friends, that
friends reach out all the timeand are like what are you
listening to?
What should I listen to?
I don't have recommendationslike I used to have for them.
So I think that there's a realrisk in that and I bring this up
now because I think with thathas sort of come, there's a huge
diversity problem in podcastingthat it's always been there

(13:35):
again, but it is getting muchworse and being in New York, I
think that was reallyhighlighted for me.
I think there are definitely onthe gender side of things.
Podcasting has always been muchmore male dominated.
You know there was it sort ofstarted as like a tech product
and it was definitely gated andvery difficult to get into if

(14:00):
you were a woman.
Back even when I startedgetting into podcasting about 10
years ago, it was very hard tofind anybody who would help me
to learn in a space as a woman.
There wasn't a lot of welcomespaces for me.
There's a lot of jargon thatwas being thrown around without
any sort of, you know, attemptto sort of let me into that

(14:21):
space, and it took a lot ofpersistence to really push
through it to even figure outhow to set up an RSS feed,
frankly, which is crazy backthen.
So you know, I think there'salways been that sort of as a
through line in podcasting andthat's something we should be
working towards fixing for sure.
I think we've come a long way.

(14:41):
I think podcasting has gotten alot more accessible for women.
But if we zoom out beyond justour industry and see how people
perceive us, they perceivepodcasting as being a space for
white dudes sitting around amicrophone.
Right, that's what podcastingis to a lot of people.
That's problematic and I wouldsay, beyond women, there is a

(15:02):
huge lack of people of color whoare on microphones right now
and podcasting and it's it'salarming to me.
Like at on air fest I, I reallyfelt that I'm not.
This isn't a dig at on air fest, it's just, you know, looking
around the room, um, it's gottenworse, we're going in the wrong
direction.
I would say, um, and that isalarming and I think again, I

(15:23):
think that comes with the lackof budgets, huge budget cuts,
unfortunately.
You end up with women andpeople of color.
Their shows get cut from thosebudgets.
So, yeah, I think that's partof the problem.
I would say, as I'm saying this, I think that there's a little
bit of a misconception, too,that when you have the people in

(15:43):
charge be primarily white menwho are making these decisions,
they view podcasts that arehosted by women and are about
women's issues as being niche orlike not scalable, uh, and
that's why they get cut early onor they never get made in the
first place, and that's just notthe case at all.
Um, so yeah, I think that's.

(16:06):
There's also probably a littlebit of that happening now.

Sam Sethi (16:08):
Are you going to be at chicago for podcast movement?
Are you going to be in londonfor the london podcast show?
Where can people find you?

so I would love to be at both of those, but
actually I am heading off onmaternity leave as a
congratulations so thank youvery much.
So, yeah, I will be on a bit ofa break from about a year, but
I will be back in full swingagain 2026.

Sam Sethi (16:31):
So yeah, well, look congratulations and look when
you come back.
I look forward to meeting upwith you.
Thanks a lot and there's plentymore from that interview on
monday james, I'm sorry, andeveryone else I'm sorry, but
this is a Spotify full show, nota Spotify free show, so you
better play that jingle.

Announcer (16:49):
We're sorry, but now it's time for more news about
Spotify on the Pod News WeeklyReview oh good, oh, there we are
.

It's always good to hear that, isn't it?
Oh good Sam, what have?
What have we got?

Sam Sethi (17:04):
well, spotify we he loud and clear.
They've got the loud and clearreport out and they say they've
got a record 10 billion dollarpayout.
Now I've got some thoughts onwhat the report said, but I
can't be critical.
10 billion dollars paid out isa fantastic now this is for?

this is for music artists, isn't it?
They haven't released anythingabout how much they've paid for
podcasters, but for musicartists, yes, $10 billion in
2024.
It brings total lifetimepayouts from Spotify to nearly
$60 billion.

Sam Sethi (17:37):
They're always very careful to talk about paying
publishing rights holders,because Spotify themselves don't
pay artists or songwritersdirectly no, this is the thing
you keep saying as well, wheneveryone goes oh, you make no
money on spotify, when you're amusic artist, and you say and
correctly say, by the way thatit's not spotify's job to pay
the artist directly.

(17:58):
And daniel egg um had a post onyour favorite platform,
linkedin, talking about um.
He says Spotify doesn'tactually pay artists or
songwriters directly.
We pay rights holders likerecord labels and publishers,
and it's up to the artist, basedon the contracts they've signed
, to the amount of money theyget paid.

(18:20):
But you know and again, Isuppose that's the stick that
everyone gets beaten with orbeats spotify with and daniel,
like you, is saying no, no, no,we make the payouts.
Two-thirds of all the moneygets paid out, but we can't
determine how much of that moneythen gets handed on to the
artist well, it's quite a um.

It's the battle of the billions, isn't it?
Because here's spotify talkingabout 10 billion dollars to the
music industry and, of course,youtube, last week, saying that
they have 1 billion listeners topodcasts 1 billion listeners,
and so I guess you know YouTubehas just released a big number.

(18:57):
Why don't we release a biggernumber?
But yeah, I did wonder if thatwas the case.
It was like a FU to YouTube.

Sam Sethi (19:04):
Yeah, you might have lots of, yeah, you might have
lots of people watching, but wehave lots of people paying,
which is the bigger announcement, I guess.

Yes, I guess.
So Spotify interestingly didn'tsend that to me, but they did
send an email saying that BillSimmons is going to stay at
Spotify.
Now the interesting thing fromthe PR people Bill Simmons to
remain at Spotify as head oftalk strategy, reporting into

(19:34):
newly appointed head of podcastbusiness, roman Vossenmuller.
Now, roman Vossenmullerexcellent name, crazy name,
crazy guy.
I ended up sitting down withhim when I was in LA anyway, so
he is a very interesting guy.
He's worked at strategy andmonetization for Spotify.

(19:55):
He's now just called head oftalk strategy, so he's actually
dropped a bit, possibly becausehe hasn't really been too keen

(20:16):
on the whole video thing.
So you know, from Spotify heseems to be much more interested
in pushing YouTube.
So, but you know, interestingto see that he is staying at
Spotify.
Last month was five years sinceSpotify acquired the Ringer,
but you know, certainlyre-signing.
So, yes, interesting too.

Sam Sethi (20:37):
Has he moved his video over to Spotify yet?

I mean, some of his video is on Spotify.
There is a.
So the note says and the noteis a very strange note, it's
seemingly Spotify's word wraphas completely failed, so it's a
very wide email, but the videosays that Spotify's the Ringer

(21:00):
is rolling out video across itspodcast portfolio now with the
majority of shows featuringvideo episodes.
Well, that's been the case onyoutube for quite some time.
Um, it then has a video casestudy, talk the thrones, which
introduced video episodes onspotify and quickly saw a 70

(21:20):
increase in followers, with 84of new users actively watching
in the foreground.
This seems to be a trope fromSpotify that they will say
introduce video and you get asignificant increase in
followers, which I don't fullykind of understand why that
would be the case, butnevertheless, that's what
Spotify is saying.

(21:42):
So, yeah, and I thought it wasinteresting.
I mean, it's five bullet pointsthat I got from the Spotify PR
people, and one of those bulletpoints was all about video and
how Spotify is really leaninginto video for the Ringer, which
I thought hmm, I wonder whythey would be so keen in

(22:03):
pointing that one out.

Sam Sethi (22:04):
I thought, hmm, I wonder why they would be so keen
in pointing that one out.
Todd Cochran and Rob Greenleethat's right, todd, it's like
he's in the room and basically,great show worth listening to.
They're talking about lots andlots of things to do with audio

(22:25):
and video, um, and one of thethings they talked about was the
user user experience on audiofirst, podcast apps, right, and
they're talking about spotifybeing um a video now app, and
how the ui does not lean or lenditself into video discovery.
So if you actually try and finda video podcast on spotify's

(22:49):
app, it's not easy to find.
You have to search for it, thenit doesn't auto play it, it
plays the audio version firstand then you have to choose an
option to play the video.
And again, the thing that yousay the pr people are telling
you is that you know there's anan increase in the number of
people who follow video becausenow video is there, right, I

(23:09):
could get that if it was TikTok,the report we had a couple of
weeks back, which was you know,the follower count is dead and
the idea is that the algorithmof TikTok is just presenting
video to video to video.
Algorithm of TikTok is justpresenting video to video to
video.
I could see that people wouldthen start clicking on the
follow button because their newusers being discovered video
from a new creator that theydidn't know about and therefore

(23:32):
they just go.
Oh, that's really cool, click,follow, follow.
But when you're on Spotify,that isn't the algorithmic
experience.
You're just having to find theone you want.
Then you have to choose thevideo.
Then you might lean into it orlean back from the video,
whichever way you're going.

So I don't agree that they could have so much of
an increase in the number offollowers just because they've
added video to the podcast feedand I think one of the
interesting things about the newmedia show is Rob Greenlee
tries everything and is verykeen to try new technology and
make sure that that works.

(24:08):
I don't think that Todd Cochranuses any of these new tools.
I'm not sure that he knows whatany of these new tools are.
If he'd actually tried SpotifyI just did a search for the
Ringer found the Bill Simmonsshow, pressed the play button.
Now it's not obvious that it'svideo, but once you get into the
podcast and you press the playbutton, it is in full screen and

(24:30):
it just plays the video in fullscreen.
And I wonder you know on thenew media show how much of it is
Todd Cochran who simply hasn'ttried anything, just making
stuff up in the confident waythat us white men do.

Sam Sethi (24:44):
It's all that us white men do it's all right,
brown men do it as well.
Hey, I could do this.
Yes, just I just thought to go.
You know it's not you white mendon't have the uh monopoly on
making up bullshit.

Yes, yes on confidently spouting bullshit,
but I think, certainly, I thinkcertainly that is an interesting
one and, I think, making the uiclearer.
It's certainly not clear whenyou're searching for the Ringer,
for example, you we talkedabout.
Would Spotify be a good podcastapp?

Sam Sethi (25:28):
if it didn't have the music.
So if you could take all themusic away from Spotify and it
was just a standalone podcastapp, is it a good podcast?

app.
Well, yes, no is the quickanswer.

Sam Sethi (25:40):
No no, it's not.
It's a rubbish podcast app.
The UI sucks.

I mean I have to say I think you know, I mean my
, my views are pretty clear onthis.
I actually think that the applepodcasts um app itself is very
nice.
The ui is very, is very good,it seems to work quite nicely,
but it's not a good player.
The actual player is not verygood and that's the reason why I
use Overcast.
The UI is slightly less good,it has slightly less features,

(26:09):
but the player, when you'replaying the audio, it has voice
boost, it has speed, you knowskip smart speed, whatever it is
, it's got all of that stuffaround the player and that is
why I end up using that, becauseI mean that at the end of the
day, that's what matters really.
But yes, completely agree thatSpotify and YouTube music are

(26:33):
both not very good podcast appsand I think that's an
interesting point that Annalisemakes.
Is that you know, if it didn'thave everything else in there,
would you still use it as apodcast app?
And I I'm sure that the answeris no.

Sam Sethi (26:50):
Yeah, and I think, uh , you know what I find.
Obviously, with my CEO of TrueFans, I look at other apps from
time to time and what you noticeis Spotify is trying to jam
more and more into the same UIwithout changing the UI
completely, and it's becoming, Ithink, nearly impossible to

(27:13):
discover most of the featuresthat they're building now,
because they're so layered thatyou actually can't find things
on the homepage.

It was one of those things that I said to
Roman.
Actually, I said, look, I've.
You know I hadn't used Spotifyfor a number of years.
I'm back using Spotify.
There are so many new featuresin there, but I only noticed
them because I've been away fromthe product for a number of
years.
And he said, yeah, it's aproblem that we've got, you know

(27:42):
, it's a problem that we've got.
That actually, you know, we'realways rolling out new features,
but how do you communicatethose?
Well, and you know, withoutcovering your app full of you
know, windows saying new, youknow, every time you hit a
button.
So, yeah, I find thatfascinating.

Sam Sethi (27:59):
Now you got some other feedback from Spotify,
because Amanda McLaughlin hadsaid that her clients were not
happy with the amount of moneythey were making from video
podcasting on Spotify and thefact that they'd left the
program and gone back to theSpotify Span program, which is
the Spotify advertising network.
So what did?

Spotify say Come on, yeah.
So Spotify gave us a statementthat says, while we can't
comment on specific creators orshows, just remember that
creators who join the SpotifyPartner Program late in the
month, have irregular postingschedules or experience broader
declines in audience engagement,may see lower initial earnings
and less accurate month-to-monthcomparisons.

(28:42):
Are you not just commenting onexactly that specific creator or
show there?
Spotify spokesperson.

Sam Sethi (28:49):
Yes.

Because I checked and the particular show
that Amanda McLaughlin signed upjoined the platform in the
middle of January.
So I think it was.
Well, I can't say what date itwas, but let's just say it was
in the middle of January,because otherwise you'll guess
who it is.
Irregular posting schedules yes, this particular show has

(29:15):
irregular posting schedules.
Sometimes it posts more thanone show a day.
Experience broader declines inaudience engagement.
Well, it did see a slight dropbetween December and January.
So basically, spotify have saidwe can't comment on specific
creators or shows, but let'scomment on this particular
creator or show and say thatthat's the reason why it's not

(29:38):
doing very well.
And at the end of it, my queryback to Spotify was I don't
understand if this show joined.
Let's just say that this showjoined on the 15th of January.
If this show joined on the 15thof January, why would that have
made a difference to the amountof money earned through Spotify
video versus Span?
Because if you've halved theamount of money that you've

(30:00):
earned on Span, you've got halfof that money back through the
Spotify video thing.
So surely that wouldn't havemade any difference at all.
And there was a kind of an umand an uh, from Spotify and they
promised to get back to me andthey haven't.
So you know I'm not quite surewhat's going on there.
Spotify spokesperson goes on andsays overall, though it's still

(30:21):
early, the programme has provenvaluable for the vast majority
of enrolled shows.
Proven valuable for is notearning more money than span.
So, again, that's justworthwhile, bearing in mind.
Amanda McLaughlin came back tome and said look, you know, our
experience is my client optedinto video on Spotify, lost a

(30:44):
pretty significant chunk ofmoney during their first month
in the program.
We've made the best decisionfor us with the data we've
received and we've opted out,and that's as far as it goes.
Now what I would love is tohear from other creators.
So far we've heard from onecreator and that creator has not
had a good experience with theSpotify Video Partner Program.

(31:07):
It'd be lovely to hear fromsome more, and if they're doing
fantastically, then great.

Sam Sethi (31:14):
I would give Spotify one get-out-of-jail card, which
is it is early days, right?
We can't throw the baby outwith a bathwater just after one
or two months of data, because Idon't think there's
insufficient time.
If this was the other wayaround.

If somebody had joined the Spotify partner
program to join SPAN, to jointhe Spotify advertising network,
that Spotify audience network,if we could be strictly accurate

(31:52):
, that obviously you need tofind clients, you need to
educate them on this particularshow, blah, blah, blah.
That is not going to beinstantaneous.
It is going to be instantaneousthe other way, because it's a
revenue share of the money thatSpotify is earning.
So I'm not sure I buy the, butit's early days.

(32:15):
For the Spotify Partner ProgramI could totally buy.
If you're joining Span and youwonder where the money is on
your first month.
You're not going to have verymuch money on the first month.
But for the Spotify PartnerProgram I'm not so sure.

Sam Sethi (32:30):
Well, I'm sure we'll come back to this one, james.
Now the final bit of theSpotify trilogy of stories.
Spotify is going to markaudiobooks as AI what's?

going on, James?
Yes, so they launched a productfrom Eleven Labs which,
essentially, if you are anauthor and you've written a book
and you want an audiobookversion of that to appear on
Spotify, then you can press acouple of buttons and a voice

(33:03):
from 11 Labs will essentiallymake you an audiobook version
with that AI voice.
So that's what they are doing.
They say that they are going tobe marking the use of AI, so
you know that a particular bookhas been done by AI, but that's

(33:25):
the announcement that they madeat the end of last month.

Sam Sethi (33:28):
Now we've talked about in the past using Notebook
LM, and we've talked aboutWonderCraft and we've talked
about other tools for creatingAI voices, and we've said that
in RSS there's the explicit tag,but we don't have a AI tag yet,
right?
So there isn't astandardization of marking up an

(33:49):
RSS feed that the hosts were AIor the content was created and
I don't think the content beingcreated with AI is that
important, but the hosts are AIand if Spotify is doing this,
are they going to give theindustry a standard that allows
us to follow in the way that weall should mark up content that

(34:10):
is AI, or are we going to stillhave to come up with our own
standard as?

well, sorry, I'm just checking.
You've just said the wordSpotify and standard in the same
phrase.

Sam Sethi (34:20):
Okay, okay, let me lead?

No, I mean no, yes.
Well, I will tell you no,because it's internal to Spotify
.
It's an audio book which isinternal to Spotify.
It's not sent out via RSS toanywhere else, so Spotify has no
standard that they wish to endup doing.
Now, the way that it ismentioned that it is an AI-read

(34:46):
book is in two places.
Firstly, it will clearly say AIin the book metadata in the app
, so you will clearly know thatit is voiced by AI.
But also, the first words youhear are this book has been
voiced by AI or somethingsimilar in the actual audio
itself.

(35:07):
And I think there's a bit of amisunderstanding from quite a
lot of people that just puttingsomething in the show notes
absolves you of mentioning it inthe audio.
That is absolutely not the case, and I have found now quite a
lot of information from the FTC,from the Federal Trade
Commission, basically saying no,it's not good enough just to
put something in the show notes,it has to be in the audio or in

(35:30):
the video as well.
So that's the way that Spotifyis doing it.
Fun fact, by the way, I askedthe FTC, I got in touch with
their press office and wasasking them about this for a
story that I'm going to bewriting soon about making it
clear that you know you've beenpaid for something and a very
nice man from the FTC washelping me with that inquiry.

(35:53):
And then all of a sudden, afterDoge and everything else, he's
not replying to any of my emails.
Can't think why that?
Oh, yes, because he's beenfired, really yes absolutely.

Sam Sethi (36:10):
Oh my God, my emails can't think why that?
Oh yes, because he's been fired.
So really, yes, absolutely so.
Uh, yes, there's a thing theonly joy I have this at the
moment is watching the testershare price on a daily basis
drop yes, well, but other thanthat, and it's very sad.
Now, um, one of the things thatwe have, in the past, talked
about in the GitHub podcastcommunity is how do we do AI,
james?
So I'm going to ask you shouldthere be an AI tag?

(36:32):
Is this the way forward?

Now I was having a conversation with John
McDermott from Canna Roga SharkMedia the other week, who
listens to this particular show,and he was promoting a new show
which is called White Smoke,which is all about what happens
when the Pope dies.
I think he may have spotted anSEO opportunity there and of

(36:55):
course, it's all AI voiced.
So he ended up using AI plushuman intervention to make a
script to make a series of sixor eight shows.
They've been AI voiced, theysound quite good, apparently,
and that's all fine.
And I said where does it saythat it's AI?
And he kind of pushed back onthat a little bit and said why

(37:17):
is that important if it soundsgood enough?
And I thought, well, that's aninteresting point.
And then it reminded me ofQueen's A Night at the Opera
album.
Do you have Queen's A Night atthe Opera album?

Sam Sethi (37:29):
I did.
I don't have any vinyl.
I stupidly sold it.

In the vinyl in the gatefold.
There was a bit on the gatefoldthat said no electronic
instruments keep music live, orsomething uh of that sort.
So there was actually a not AI,if you like it, if you like it
that way um, uh thing in that.

(37:53):
Now obviously you know whathappened to Queen.
They ended up suddenlyrealizing that they could
produce much better, moreexciting music, arguably um,
using uh, using uh, arguablyusing electronics rather than
just acoustic instruments.
And so it comes back to do youinsist that every Howard Jones

(38:17):
track has a declaration on thetrack as you start playing it,
saying this track includes theuse of a drum machine?

Sam Sethi (38:30):
I mean, no, no, but I would like them to include it
that this singer can't sing andhas used auto-tune.

Ah well, there we are.
That would be lovely, wellthere we are.

Sam Sethi (38:38):
You know, cheryl Cole , spice Girls, name them all,
right?
Who, when you hear them withoutauto-tune, sound like a cat
screeching?
Yeah, I'd love the auto-tunelabel on that, please, but they
won't do that.
And, pushing back on John alittle bit, give me the choice,
right, john?
Yes, I agree, the AI voices aregetting much, much better.

(39:03):
There's a really cool new AIthat came out this week called
Sesame, and the character voiceis called Maya and it is truly
amazing.
It's a conversational AI andevery demo I've seen and I've
tried it myself it is very, veryhard to tell that you're not
talking to a normal person.

(39:24):
The quality is unbelievable,and so I can see how you know
going down the road.
The Alan Turing test will we beable to tell that this is a
computer?
I think we will fail and theywill pass the Alan Turing test
right and we will fail.

Yeah, I think there's a bunch of people who
are listening to some of theCaloroga Shark Media stuff now,
or to many other podcasts, whodon't necessarily realise that
they're listening to an AI voice.
I guess my mind has beenchanged somewhat.
Remembering Queen's album,remembering the use of drum

(40:01):
machines Do we really have tomention that?
Do we have to mention if an AIvoice has been used for a
30-second ad in the middle ofthis show?
You know where are the lineshere and I think nobody really
yet knows, do they?
You know in terms of that?

Sam Sethi (40:19):
No, we don't know.

We had a panel in a couple of weeks' time in
Dublin talking about the use ofAI, and then on another panel in
a couple of weeks more inToronto talking about AI.
So doubtless I will be sayingall of this all over again.

Sam Sethi (40:38):
And that's kind of how it works.
Ai from other people is.
In a world of AI where we'regoing to get more and more of it
, I want to cling to the humanrelationship more and more.
Um the, the, the reality ofhuman, uh connection, uh,
feeling, uh, sentiment,experience, uh, the backstory.

(40:59):
The AI has none of those and itcan fake some of it, but it
can't actually have it.

It doesn't have kids, they didn't go to school,
they don't have a partner, they,you know, as Notebook LM
characters, found out one day,and let's also just remember
that there are lots of peopleout there who watch movies and
you are watching actors You'renot watching.
You know a guy who really is onMars.

Sam Sethi (41:26):
Really, come on.
I thought Elon had got therealready.

So you know.
So quite a lot of this is.
You know, the point of quite alot of this stuff is to suspend
belief and to enjoy the moment.
So I don't know, I think it'san interesting one.
Should there be a cleardisclaimer for I'm being paid to
be polite about Tesla orwhatever it might be?

(41:51):
Yes, there should be in my mind, you know, a very clear
understanding of where somebodyhas paid me to say something.
But should there be somethingwhere I just turn around and I
say you know what?
You know, I messed up when Isaid something earlier and I got
my, I got a cloned voice to saythat in my voice and you'll

(42:14):
never know?
I'm not sure, necessarily thatthat needs to be a disclaimer.
The Pod.

Announcer (42:20):
News Weekly Review with Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.

Sam Sethi (42:27):
James, now Google.
We love, love Google, don't we,Because they always add
something to the graveyard.
What have they added to thegraveyard this time?

Yes.
So if you want to talk to yourGoogle smart speaker and you say
Google play the latest news,with an additional word at the
front of that, then that wouldhave given you the latest news
from a big broadcaster.
In the US it's NPR, in the UKit's the BBC, but it might also

(42:57):
be LBC In the UK, it might alsobe Sky News, but it'll play you
a news bulletin and that hasbeen responsible for significant
download numbers for many showsthat Google play the latest
news thing.
Anyway, if you have arelatively recent Android phone
which has switched over toGemini, it no longer plays

(43:21):
anything for you and it justreads you some bad and out of
date news headlines insteadAnother Google triumph.
I am a content partner forGoogle News Audio Briefings and
Google didn't bother to tell usanything about that, which I'm a
little bit salty about.
But yes, so it's yet anotherexample of Google making a

(43:46):
change a product that wasn't,frankly, ready yet to launch,
but they felt that they had toinstantly change, get rid of
Google Assistant and stickGoogle Gemini on mobile phones,
and that's had a very bad effectfor quite a lot of shows.

Sam Sethi (44:02):
It's one of the reasons why I no longer use or
trust Google.
I try to keep away from everyGoogle product because I don't
believe it has longevity.
I think they, on the whim, willchange things.
We saw that with GooglePodcasts recently, obviously.

Yeah, we did, although you know.
I mean I would be interested toknow from the Pod News report
card.
I would be interested to knowhow well YouTube has actually
done this time around, becauseobviously we had quite a lot of
negative stories about YouTubelast year.
Youtube wasn't particularlyhigh in the list of podcast

(44:39):
platforms for anything really.
So I'm quite keen to find outwhere YouTube is in the Pod News
report card this time around.
I will be doing that atEvolutions by Podcast Movement.
Don't know when yet, becausethat session hasn't yet appeared
on the timetable, but as soonas I know, then you will know
about it as well in the Pod Newsnewsletter.

(45:00):
But I think that there's, youknow.
It'll be interesting to seewhether podcast creators agree
with us that you know Google,you know, seems to have lost its
way, or whether actuallypodcast creators are much
happier with Google and movingforward.

Sam Sethi (45:17):
Let's whiz around the world very quickly then, James.
What's going on in the USA?

What's going on in the US?
Well, audia released its annualfinancial report.
If you remember, this is acompany that launched a ad
skipping podcast app, which,actually, they've still failed
to launch it.
They made a loss of $8.7million last year.
They've not earned a singledollar in revenue.

(45:41):
The CEO, though, received a 17%pay rise.
Well done, well done Audia.
And if you wanted to waste yourtime, you could have gone to
South by Southwest and seenAudia, a company which is
totally useless at making money,sharing their thoughts on how
the company views the podcastindustry's financial landscape.
Why did anybody give thatcompany any time and space on a

(46:07):
South by Southwest stage?
What is going on there?
That makes no sense to mewhatsoever, unless they paid to
be there.

Sam Sethi (46:17):
I thought you were going to say why did any VC give
them money?
Because that's the biggerquestion.
I mean not having released theproduct.
I mean I didn't realise that.
I thought they'd released theproduct, but it was just failing
To me.

this is everything.
Again, this is everything thatis wrong with large areas of the
tech landscape where you getcharlatans like this lot who've
earned no money, who don't seem,by the way, to believe that
podcast creators should share inany of the money that they may

(46:50):
make in the future, even ifthey're going to strip out their
ads.
But they're utter charlatans.
They clearly know nothing aboutrunning a profitable,
successful business and theyhave the temerity to turn around
to us and say what ourfinancial landscape is going to
be.
Go and get in the sea.

(47:11):
From my point of view, let'sleave them alone.

Sam Sethi (47:16):
I think we've.

No, let's not.
Let's have another 10 minuteson all.

Sam Sethi (47:22):
No, let's move on.
Let's put that boot in again.
Where is it?

Let's move on.
There's a new comedy podcastnetwork in town.
It's the WITZ podcast network.
No, it's not, it's the WITZpodcast network.
It's been launched by a companycalled Cineverse, which is
better known for horror and truecrime, and a comedy club brand
called the Stand.
Of course, comedy is the numberone podcast category in the US.

(47:49):
So there's a big thing going onthere, which is nice.
There's the Golden Lobe Awards,which is a comedy podcast
awards ceremony.
If you want to enter, you'vegot one more day to enter.
That Entries are just $32, 25quid if you want to do that.
So that's all good.

(48:12):
In Australia, Mamma Mia Out Loudis recording a show in the
Apple Store in George Street inSydney.
That's a clever plan if you cando that.
It's quite late in the day, Ithink it's between five and six
on a Saturday evening.
You can go there.
I once went to the Apple storein George Street, Sydney,
because the MacBook Air that Iwas using had ballooned in size,

(48:33):
so the battery had gonecompletely wrong, and in three
hours I was due on an aeroplaneand I went into the Apple store
and I said I'm not leaving untilyou take this battery out.

Sam Sethi (48:47):
So you were there until about Monday the following
week.

Were you no, no, no.
And they went and they did thatpretty well instantly and I
said I will not be allowed on aplane if they see the state of
this thing because it's about toburst into flames.
So there we are.
So that was nice.
A couple of people and jobsJason Kalin now working at
Frequency as their chiefcommercial officer.

(49:11):
He's worked for ad exchangesand creative ad platforms for a
long, long time and Matt Whitehas been promoted at Podimo to
be global director of Contentand Production.
Of course, podimo having afantastically good time of it.
Go and have a look at someprevious shows to learn a little

(49:32):
bit more about that.

Announcer (49:33):
Podcast events on the Pod News Weekly Review.

Well, lots of awards are happening or have
just happened.
The iHeartMedia Awards happenedlast week in South by Southwest
, the winners and stuff on thePod News website at some point
Also in India.
I mean, they're all Americanwinners, so not that interested

(50:01):
In India.

Sam Sethi (50:02):
The Podmasters 2025 podcast awards they're not all
American, that's fine.

They won't be all American.
You can only enter in rupees.
Their early bird deadline hasbeen extended to March the 17th.
If you want to try and enterthat, there's quite some form to
fill out if you do.
And, of course, let's notforget that the AMBIs are
happening on the 31st of Marchin Chicago in the US as part of

(50:30):
Evolutions 2025.
They've announced a number ofspeakers.
They've announced me finally.
So that's nice.
So I'm definitely talking once.
I think I'm talking three times, but I'm not quite so sure yet.
I'm not on their list yet, butI'm sure that I'll find it out
sooner or later.
Also talking, dan Granger fromOxford Road is doing a keynote

(50:53):
session on what is a podcast.
What is a podcast, as well asSteve Goldstein and Jay Nachlis.
You would have heard Jay acouple of weeks ago on this very
show talking about the state ofvideo podcasting and how
important that is.
And, who knows, the Pod Newsreport card might have some of
that kind of stuff as well.

(51:14):
You can still use the codepodnews if you want to save on
evolution's passes.
So that's nice.

Sam Sethi (51:18):
Yeah, well, while you're gallivanting over to
Gilead sorry America and doingkeynotes, in April I will be at
the Birmingham University atUniPodFest run by Nina Robinson.
It's her third year.
This is in Birmingham, it's onthe 4th of April and I'll be
talking about the future ofpodcasting there, so that will

(51:39):
be a little event that I'll bedoing there.

Very nice.
And PodCamp 2.0, which is yourthing happening around the same
time as a podcast show in London.
You've got some exciting newsthere, don't you?

Sam Sethi (51:56):
Yeah, nick from Fountain and I have been talking
and I had a two-hourconversation with Julie Costello
.
It's all looking good.
Unfortunately, jason and Fridacouldn't make the call last week
so we haven't still spoken, soI've gone for plan C.
I can't wait any longer to finda venue.
So I've got a venue that I willbe announcing which is nearby.

(52:16):
I just, yeah, city Universitycouldn't do it.
I don't think the London PodcastShow have a priority around
this.
I think they're too busy withother things now, so I'm not
going to wait any longer.
So you'll hear the announcementfrom all of us next week where
we are going to be doing theevent.
But good news is that JulieCostello and the whole crew are

(52:37):
coming over to do two concertsin the UK.
One will be on Friday, the 23rdof May.
Strangely, where I used to livein Leon C in Essex, there's an
event down there and that'sgoing to be fun to go back and a
few of my mates from aroundthere are coming with me.
But they're also doingDingwalls in London during the

(52:58):
London podcast show.
So on the Wednesday nightthey'll be doing that.
So if you want to go along,there'll be details about that
venue and that gig.
And then, yes, we will be doingthe agenda.
I'll be putting that out of allthe speakers and panels and
what we're doing it's a show andtell.
No one's allowed PowerPointsI'm not having any.

(53:18):
So if you've got slideware,don't bring it.
We want to have people showingand talking about what's
actually tangibly out there nowin podcasting 2.0 land and, yeah
, that's the goal of the wholeevent.
So that'll be on the 20th ofMay, 2.0 day.

Very nice and more details on the website,
which is Podcamp2.live.

Announcer (53:39):
The tech stuff on the Pod News Weekly Review.

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday
in the Pod News newsletter.
Here's where Sam talkstechnology Pocket Casts good
news from them.

Sam Sethi (53:50):
Yeah, pocket Casts has opened its web player to
everyone.
You don't need an account tolisten, which is very good.
You can go and try it out.
I think you've put your PodNews Daily up there as an
example link on the Pod Newswebsite, so, yeah, that's an
example you can go to.
Why have they done this, james?

Why have they done this?
Well, they talk about thefuture of podcasting.
Shouldn't be locked behindwalled gardens.
They talk about podcasts.

Sam Sethi (54:15):
Belong to the people, not corporations they talk
about podcasting is one of thelast open corners of the
internet and we're here to keepit that way.
It feels like Matt Mullenberg'sbeen writing some press
releases.

Yeah, well, yes, and great that they have opened
their web player.
It's a very good web player.
It's almost as good as theApple Podcasts web player, and
therein lies the problem for meit's almost as good as that.
It's not as good as that.
It doesn't work on mobile, yetit doesn't show transcripts,
which, by the way, applePodcasts doesn't either yet on
the web you can't install it asa PWA.

(54:49):
Why would you?
Because obviously, pocket Casthas its own app, which is a good
app.
So I'm kind of there thinking Imean, it's great that they have
opened up their web player toeverybody.
It's great that it is available.
I have used that web player inthe past.
It is a good, fully featuredweb player.
You know it's very nice.

(55:12):
My question would be I'm just Idon't quite get the talking of
OpenRSS and how exciting it isand blah, blah, blah.
And we're here to make surethat podcasting shouldn't be
locked behind a walled gardenbecause you know, I mean you
don't need an account oranything to get onto Apple
Podcasts on the web.
Spotify works fine on the web.

(55:33):
You can get a free account onthat.
You know, I'm kind of therereally wanting to make it
succeed.
But if you were to ask me myown personal opinion, I'd say I
don't really understand whythey've done it.
Maybe just to make life alittle bit easier for their

(55:53):
paid-for service.

Sam Sethi (55:54):
I don't know I think I call it crack cocaine
marketing, right, which is yougive something away for free,
hook people in and then chargethem on the back of it, right,
and that, I think, is whatthey're doing.
It's a way of saying look you,the barrier to entry to use
pocketcast was you had to createan account, um, or maybe

(56:16):
subscribe or or whatever.
But now you don't have to dothat.
You can experience the wholepocketcast environment and then,
if you really really like itguess what?
If you want the cooler features, then you can create an account
, and if you want even morecooler features, buy a
subscription, right, and it'sjust a natural thing to do.
I think it's a very simple,clear strategy of how you bring

(56:38):
people into a funnel.
But the things that I findquite frustrating for companies
of that size because, let's behonest, it's part of the big
automatic company it's not alittle plucky startup.
I think it's quite.
I'll say it.
I think it's lazy of Apple, andI would go as far to say it's

(57:00):
lazy of Pocket Cast as well notto code it correctly, to be a
PWA, not to have it mobile ready.
I just don't see why you putsomething out that's half-baked
in both cases right, when you'veclearly got enough resource to
go and do it.

I mean, apple's is a PWA now.
It wasn't when it launched, butit is now.
But the Pocket Casts web player, yeah, I mean, you know it was
a bit weird that it didn't workfor mobile.
Now the interesting thing isthat the share links that it
produces are share links whichwill open the Pocket Casts app
if you have that installed.

(57:38):
If not, it will open the webplayer and that's quite nice.
But there again, it will openthe web player and that's quite
nice.
But there again, apple Podcastsdoes that too, and you know I'm
not Apple Podcasts' biggest fan.
But on the other side, theirweb player is a good quality
thing.
You can install it as an app.
It works best if you're usingAndroid, weirdly, but you can

(58:00):
install it as if it's an app.
I'm trying to understand thePocket Casts plan because their
crack cocaine thing.
You'll use the app.
You'll download the free PocketCasts app on either iOS or on
Android.
That's where the majority, vastmajority, 90 X percent of

(58:22):
podcast listens happen.
So I'm I'm I'm just kind oflooking at this and saying you
know it was a very excited pressrelease about how you know
podcasts belong to the people,man, um, but you know you can't
even link to it without usingeither an iTunes ID or a uh or
Pocket Cast's own GUID.

(58:42):
So actually there's no realopenness there.
You know, I don't know, am Ibeing?

Sam Sethi (58:51):
maybe I'm just being a little bit grumpy about it,
maybe, but look, I think it'sall positive in the fact that
you know Apple and Pocket Castand Adam Curry and Dave Jones,
who we talked about last weekwith GodCast, true Fans we're
all web-based players, right,and we talk about Buzzsprout,
blueberry all having web playersas well.

(59:12):
I think it's good that the webis being supported, that it's
not all Flash 2, sorry, iOS andI think you know the proprietary
nature of those, but equally, Iknow I have to go down that
road as true fans.
You just said it 98% of playsare on mobile.
People are Pavlovian, trainedto go to app stores, and

(59:34):
actually it's a good thing insome ways.
The app to home screen debaclethat Apple have, where they
won't say add a app, right is,is a frustration for me and you
said something else just nowwhich is?
It strangely works better onandroid than apple.
Yeah, because apple support forpwas is rubbish and they put

(59:55):
yeah, and they've designed it tobe rubbish right, whereas
android have not designed it tobe rubbish, or at least a lot
better than than the Appleexperience.
So we know what's going on.
I think what will happen, though.
I think Fountain has this.
We will have this soon.
Any web-based platform that hasa player gets a lovely banner

(01:00:17):
at the top of the screen,courtesy of Apple, that says oh,
by the way, you can now loadthis from the App Store if you
want the app experience and thatnice banner which makes users
who'd happen to find you on theweb an easier way to install.
You have to go down that route,and I'm wondering whether
Pocket Cast is saying oh yeah,people have been searching for

(01:00:39):
us or been looking and there'sbeen a gateway to entry.
Okay, open the gateway.
And oh, and, now we can put abanner at the top of this that
says install Pocket Cast fromthe iOS or Android app stores.
Right, I think it's just that.
So it's a little bit of giveaway something, but we're going
to bring you back into the iOSnative experiences and then we

(01:00:59):
can get the subscription out ofyou later.

James Cridland (01:01:02):
Yeah, and as it currently works, um, uh, then,
uh, it does give you a splashscreen the first time that you
go there, which basically sayshey, this doesn't work very well
on mobile, but here's where youcan download and install the
app.
Um, they aren't actually usingthe app banner, which is weird.
Um, but um yeah but, but youknow, there we are, are you can

(01:01:23):
also see that banner working, bythe way, um, if you visit a um
a podcast page on the pod newswebsite, because I've coded up
those banners to automaticallydive straight into the apple
podcasts app, which seems towork quite nicely, very nice um.

Sam Sethi (01:01:40):
I fancy having an audio shake with you, James.
Why would I do that?

This is a company that produces a bunch of
different AI audio tools,presumably so that other
companies can license them.
So Wondercraft has licensed thisone, for example, which is a
tool to separate overlappedvoices.
So if you or I, if I wasrecording this as one track I
record this multi-track so thatI can actually do this anyway,
but if I was recording this asone track, if we were in the
same room and all of that, whatthis tool will allow you to do

(01:02:17):
is go, okay, I want from thisone track where two people are
talking over one another, I wantjust Sam on one track and just
James on the other track, and itwill automatically work out and
separate the two differentvoices from that one piece of
audio, which is really cleverand could make life an awful lot

(01:02:38):
easier for podcast editors.
So I thought that was quite nice.
There's a nice demo that Ilinked to in the release and, as
I say, the tool is alreadyintegrated into WonderCraft and,
from my point of view and I mayhave got this wrong, but I
think WonderCraft is essentiallya big company which is

(01:02:59):
essentially licensing otherpeople's tech, but putting a
standard UX, you know around itand from that point of view, it
works really well, so it's avery clever idea.

Sam Sethi (01:03:11):
Yeah, they license 11 labs.
I mean again, you know, Iremember I mean Microsoft used
to license a ton of third-partyIP and call it Excel or Word and
you, you know, wrap it withtheir own ui around it.
So, yeah, it's not a badstrategy, right?
Yeah, talking of video, talkingof other stuff, alitu, or alitu

(01:03:34):
, how do you say that, james,anyway, um, yeah, alitu, I think
yes.
What have they done?

yeah, yes, they, uh, they now record video.
So if you're doing a remoterecording, then you used to just
get the audio tracks.
Now you get a fancy little MP4download with all of the videos
neatly arranged into a grid,ready to upload straight to
YouTube without any additionalediting.
It's Todd Cochran's idealproduct and it's available to

(01:04:01):
every customer with noadditional cost.

Sam Sethi (01:04:02):
Maybe a license?

Hooray, I mean maybe he might like um, and it's
available to every customerwith no additional cost.
Maybe a license, hooray, but Imean, maybe he might, maybe he
might boostergram, boostergram,boostergram, super, super.

Announcer (01:04:09):
Comments, zaps, fan mail, super chats and email.

Our favorite time of the week, it's the pod
news weekly review inbox yes, somany different ways to get in
touch with us fan mail by usingthe link in our show notes,
super comments on true fans orboosts everywhere else, or email
, and we share any money that wemake just between sam and I.
None of the rest of the massivepod news team, um, gets, uh,

(01:04:37):
any of that, um, so, uh, yes,and my umbral is up and running
as, as you can see, a ton oflittle messages in here.
Bruce, the ugly quacking duckhas sent a row of ducks.
Double two, double two sats.
Thanks again.
There you go, that's nice.
There's another one here sayinganother great episode, there

(01:05:00):
you go See.
Great episode, there you go See.
So Bruce actually gave us someadditional sats for the longer
version of Adam and Dave on theGodcaster that we published on
Monday.
If you've not yet seen that,what else is here?
There's ideas about what to dowith our power supporters here

(01:05:24):
from Lyceum?

Sam Sethi (01:05:25):
Yeah, I will become a power supporter in the near
future.
He says James and Sam, howabout stickers or coasters for
my tea mug, beer, wine glass?
Here is a symbolic krona.
One sec is now around 100satoshis.
Very nice, yes.
No, we're not opening a merchstore.

I don't think we need James and Sam on a t-shirt
.
No, I don't think anyone'sbuying that.
I got a lot of pod coastersprinted up.
See what I did there.
A lot of pod coasters printedup and I thought, well, these
will be really nice to send topeople.
And then I realized thatbecause they're not flat like a

(01:06:16):
sticker is, it's obvious thatthere is something in the
envelope.
Australia Post wanted to chargeme $26 every time I sent one of
those overseas and so no, so Igot rid of all of them in New
Zealand.
So that's how that works.
But yes, you know, I wouldn'tbe too upset in terms of

(01:06:39):
stickers.
I would go to Sticker Mule, butthe guy that runs Sticker Mule
has turned into an idiot, so Ican't do that anymore.
But if I can find a decentcompany, then I'm up for
stickers.
I think one of the excitingthings about sending a new
subscriber a sticker is that itends up being sent with an

(01:07:01):
Australian stamp from Australia.
Sticker is that it ends upbeing sent with an Australian
stamp from Australia.
So, firstly, it takes about sixweeks to get to you and you'll
forget that you were gettinganything in the first place.
So it'll be a nice surprise.
But also, secondly, it'll have,I don't know, a cuddly koala or
a kangaroo on the stamp orwherever it works.
So I'll be up for stickers, butI know that you've got other
ideas as well.

(01:07:22):
In fact, neil Velio sends us1,500 sats.
As a power supporter, I'd sayyou do enough for us all.
Oh, thanks, neil, but I'd nevercomplain about a WhatsApp group
for us.
Oh, a WhatsApp group for theSensational 17.
That's an interesting idea.

Sam Sethi (01:07:40):
Yeah, I mean, they're pretty quick to do.
We can put one together.
I just wonder how theconversation will go within it.
That's all.
I'm on several other WhatsAppgroups and they get initial
excitement and then they fadeaway, unless somebody within the
group.

I agree.
I mean, I would be very happyif anybody wanted.
I would be very happy to give,wanted, I would be very happy to
give um, uh, our powersupporters, um, access to the
pod news mastodon so you canpost there.
But then you can post on the onthe podcast index, uh, mastodon
as well, or you can post on onyou know your own one, um, but
I'd be very, very happy to endup uh, doing that.

(01:08:18):
But yeah, you know, I'm justsort of yeah, yes, I, I agree,
it's what you actually put there.
Claire Wheat-Brown, 1,000 sats.
Thank you, claire.
Thanks for the mention ofPodcasting 2.0.
In practice, she says in theupcoming Fan Zone Next week, on
Podcasting 2.0, which is thisweek, march the 13th, which was

(01:08:39):
yesterday, I tell a story,jackanory style, that'll go way
over the heads of the Americans,of boosting and personal
connection and how I got intothis 2.0 stuff in which Pod News
, weekly Review and Buzzcast aremain characters.
Excellent, excellent work ofmentioning our sponsor,
buzzsprout.
Thank you, clare Wake-Brown.
Looking forward to seeing you inLondon in a month or two's time

(01:09:03):
.
What else have we got?
Two to two again from Bruce.
Yes, more from Bruce.
I'm a big fan of Bruce, I enjoySaturday mornings with a cup of
tea and pod news.
Thanks, the ugly quacking duck.
Now, if you're enjoying that,that must mean that you're in
the US, bruce.
I'm guessing, but I don't know,because it turns out that
you're in the US, bruce.

(01:09:24):
I'm guessing, but I don't know,because it turns out that you
are also anonymous podcast guruuser.
Thanks for the entertainingnews and conversations.
So, yes, there we are.

Sam Sethi (01:09:32):
Neil Velio.
Again, I agree, hosts need toremember why they're here to
serve listeners, not justcreators.
If a tag benefits a listener,it should be a no-brainer.
What's that in reference to, Iwonder?

What is that in reference to?
I think that's in reference topodcast hosts not integrating as
many tags as you would likethem to integrate.
Yes, indeed, yes, hosts arethere to serve listeners, but
obviously the creators are thepeople that pay them the money,
which is an interestingdichotomyotomy, that isn't it?

Sam Sethi (01:10:08):
but have you noticed where the boosts are coming from
, uh, and who they're not comingfrom?
And I'm I'm actually worriedabout where they're coming from
and not coming from in the sensethat podcast um, uh, guru and
true fans are the people wherewe're getting the content from
or the boost from.
Yes, we used to get a ton fromFountain.

(01:10:31):
Now, either people on Fountainjust don't like us anymore,
which may be a case becausethey're, you know, into their
nostrils, I don't know, but wedon't seem to be getting any
from Fountain anymore.
And where is Mitch?
Where's?

Podfusk, yes, indeed, that is an interesting
point, and an interesting pointwell made.
We've not made any changes.

Sam Sethi (01:11:18):
An interesting point well made.
We've not made any changes.
We still use good old fashioned, you know, links to proper
nodes and everything else.
So really there should be noreason why those haven't.
You know those have gone away,but they clearly have.
So, yes, who knows?
I know, I know fountain'smoving to ln address and, uh, ln
urlp, um, but we, we supportthat as well.
Um, I know that um, but youknow where's where, where is um
other apps?
I just don't get it.
I mean, have we has the old bapocalypse really hit, um, I'm
not sure.
Yeah, I just thought I'd make anobservation, just it just
surprised me, that's all you,you make you?

I mean, has the old bee apocalypse really hit?
I'm not sure.
I just thought I'd make anobservation.
It just surprised me, that'sall.
You make a good point.
It would be interesting, withAdam and Dave, to listen
carefully as to where those arecoming from as well and see if
there's any correlation inbetween those.
It may just be that you knoweverybody using Fountain is

(01:11:58):
friends with Mr Trump orwhatever.
I don't know, but that may bethe case.
Anyway, thank you to our powersupporters for your very kind
support.
Weeklypodnewsnet if you wouldlike to join the Sensational 17,
who are Cameron Moll, MarshallBrown, Matt Medeiros, Mike

(01:12:20):
Hamilton, Dave Jackson, RachelCorbett, Cy Jobling, David
Marzell, Jim James Rocky, Thomas, Neil Velio, Ms Eileen Smith,
Claire Waite-Brown, JohnMcDermott, James Burt, the late
Bloomer actor, and BrianEntsminger, who is our newest
supporter.
Thank you all for doing that,Much appreciated and that makes

(01:12:41):
a real difference.
So that's very kind.
So what's?

Sam Sethi (01:12:44):
happened for you this week, sam.
Thanks to you I think Thanks toyou we are now looking in the
audio for the ID3 tags when wedon't have chapters, and we've
also added support for Podlove'ssimple chapters as well.

Very nice too.
So Podlove is supported, I know, by Omni Studio and some of the
other Triton podcast hostingcompanies, podcast um hosting
companies.
Um, so that's a nice thing.
And um, so you are using id3chapters as a fallback if the
podcasting 2.0 chapters don'texist, because obviously

(01:13:22):
podcasting 2.0 chapters thebenefit with those is you don't
have to re-upload audio.
Um, you can just change thejson file and away you go.

Sam Sethi (01:13:30):
Exactly, yeah, perfect but we just thought,
where there isn't a chapter,let's try and find something.
And Spotify and YouTube usedthe Podlove format.
So again we're seeing within alot of bigger podcasts that the
chapters they're using.
So we thought, why not?

You're also supporting WebSub now, which is
nice, and you've updated Podpingas well.
Everything going fine withWebSub.
It was relatively easy tosupport.

Sam Sethi (01:14:00):
Yeah, it took us a day.
That's all Not a big thing.
And again for the non-Podpingsupported hosts again it just
means we get quicker updates.
So yeah, it's a fallback,another fallback.

Worthwhile looking at that, I I would still
love to understand why I'm I'mtold by some people that web sub
is impossible and completelyunfit for purpose, so not, not
not from where I'm sitting.
Um, uh, you're doing somethingto um anger uh podcast, aren't

(01:14:33):
you?

Sam Sethi (01:14:34):
Old podcast hosts.
Yes, the podcasting 1.0 host,yeah, quite happy to anger them.
Really, the idea is we decided,instead of having blank pages
when you go to something thatshould have chapters or
transcripts, that we will tellyou that this host does or
doesn't support the feature.
So, for example, with thenewsagent, captivate does

(01:14:56):
support chapters and transcripts, but the newsagent Global does
not provide transcripts orchapters.
So, on the transcript page, ifthe email is available in the
RSS feed, we'll even then put arequest chapters or transcripts
option for you as well, so it'llsend an email on your behalf to

(01:15:17):
the creator.
So we're doing that.
We are going to take it alittle bit further.
We are going to try and agitatenow to ask creators to switch
and we are going to promotepodcasting 2.0 hosts very
aggressively.
I think, yes, very interesting,and some podcasting 2.0 hosts
very aggressively.

I think yes, very interesting, and some
podcasting 2.0 hosts haveaffiliate deals which you should
probably sign up to.

Sam Sethi (01:15:41):
We have.

That way, you can earn some money too, as do
our sponsors Buzzsprout I thinkthey've got an affiliate deal.
They do, yes, they do, and wehave the link to it.

Sam Sethi (01:15:52):
Yes, we're going to be doing a little bit more.
We're working with a couple ofhosts on some ideas about how we
can be a little bit moreaggressive than affiliate deals,
but anyway, uh, it requires afew more things from us, like a
support for the verified tag andan api from true fans.
But anyway, we'll talk aboutthat in another show.
Um, we also added co-listening,which is fun, and we've had

(01:16:12):
some really good feedback frompeople, so people are now
getting real-time notificationswhen people are listening to the
same episode and that's workingnicely.
And claire weight brown, who wementioned earlier, um, who's
one of our past supporters.
Um, she's done a fantastic job.
Fan zone is now 18 episodes areready to go.
We're on rsscom with that.
Who's hosting it for us?

(01:16:33):
Thank you guys.
And that will be out next week.
So I'm very excited, very cool.

What's been happening for you, james?
Well, I have been doing a fewthings.
So, firstly, having a look atthe pod news report card, diving
through the data.
It's too late for you to fillit in now, but diving in through
the data, good news is that wegot a significant increase to
last year's numbers from peoplewho have filled that in, which

(01:16:59):
is great.
I think possibly even double,so that's super helpful.
I mean, we got 20,000 coming in, but 19,500 of those were bots,
so that was handy and, in fact,one of the things that I am now
seeing.
If you've been following thenumber of subscribers to the Pod

(01:17:20):
News newsletter over the lastweek or so, then you will have
seen that drop quite a lot.
The reason why it's droppingquite a lot is that Yahoo has
finally got around to cancellingquite a lot of accounts that
were used by some robots orsomething to weirdly to sign up

(01:17:43):
to the Pod News newsletter.
I'm not quite sure why you as arobot would want to do that,
but anyway, all of these havefinally been cancelled and the
way that PodNews works is afterthree times, after your email
bounces three times, then weautomatically unsubscribe you.
So that's why the numbers havebeen going down quite a lot over

(01:18:04):
the last week or so, but it'snice to get rid of the robots
because that'll increase theopen rate, which is always good.
So, yes, and obviously I shouldhave been going to Athens in
Greece.
This is where.
I should have been speaking toyou from, but no such luck.
I've been here, which hasactually been really good

(01:18:25):
because I've been able to hunkerdown and get a few things done
which I've meant to do.
One of the fatal mistakes, sam,that I did yesterday was that I
typed in the upgrade code tojust update the version of Linux
I was using on one of myservers to the latest version.

(01:18:46):
You know how that works andnormally that works fine.
In this particular case, it gothalfway through and then hung
the box, and that was the boxthat I send the Pod News
newsletter through.
Now I did.
It was on my list to move itfrom where it was, somewhere
which was cheaper anyway.

(01:19:08):
But, yes, I spent six hourstrying to get that box fixed and
set back up again.
One of the frustrating has theexpletive jar.
Is it full?
Oh, my goodness.
I mean one of the annoyingthings is that Amazon has lots
of documentation.
Quite a lot of it is wrong.
So you go in and you go, okay,well, you know what are the

(01:19:31):
magic incantations to set uplet's encrypt on this box.
And so you go and you use themand it doesn't work.
And so you've removed the boxand start all over again,
assuming that you've made amistake, and you try again and
it doesn't work, and then yourealise that, ah, actually no,
these instructions by Amazon fortheir own boxes don't actually

(01:19:53):
work and you should use someweird instruction by some
Japanese blogger who's workedout how to get it to work, and
it's just a deeply frustratingthing.
But anyway, but that's allfixed now, so that's nice and
that will save me somewhere inthe region of $7 a month or
something One less box for me toworry about, in the region of

(01:20:13):
$7 a month or something One lessbox for me to worry about.
But yeah, how?

Sam Sethi (01:20:16):
frustrating.
And are you got the full roofon?
Have you got a car that's stillon four wheels?

I mean how are you?
Yes, so we ended up.
We didn't lose power, which Iwas amazed at.
I thought that we were going tolose power because all of our
power and all of our internetare all on overhead poles, so I
was assuming that any old treewould fall onto that and we'd be
without power for days.
300,000 households inQueensland were without power

(01:20:48):
during the cyclone, but we werenot one of those.
So, hooray, it did rain a lot,um, uh, a pool turned bright
green, because of course it didUm, but um, so that was um, so
that was good.
But yeah, we, um, uh, we andmost of Brisbane got away
relatively okay, uh, which wasuh, good, um, cause nobody

(01:21:12):
really wanted that kind of stuff.
So, yeah, so it was aninteresting time, but no,
everything is sort of relativelygood.
The only casualty has been Itook our yard brush out to brush
away all of the leaves from allof the drains close to our

(01:21:36):
house to make sure that all ofthose works, and managed to
break my brush, so Amazon isvery lucky.

Sam Sethi (01:21:43):
I thought you were going to say you found a cobra
hiding in there.

No, no, no so Amazon is very lucky that I've
ordered a new brush from them,and a brush made out of plastic
this time instead of out ofmetal that rusts.
So that's all good.
But no, everything wasremarkably okay for us.
Not so okay for people on theGold Coast, not so okay for some
people on Bribie Island andplaces like that, and in fact,

(01:22:07):
if you have a look at SurfersParadise, which used to be this
beautiful sandy beach where youcould watch people surfing from
and everything else, the waveshas essentially washed all of
the sand away.
So now Surfers Paradise is mostdefinitely not a paradise.
It's a two and a half metrecliff of sand and that's it sand

(01:22:31):
and that's it.
So there'll be no playingaround on that beach for a while
until they manage to, you know,scoop up all of the sand and
stick it back on the beach again.
So that's a bit of a shame, butapart from that, everything was
all good, which was nice.

Sam Sethi (01:22:45):
And I just have a little thank you for you, which
is thank you for that email yousent me, which is some of the
feedback from the report thatmade me skip on a Monday morning
.

That was really nice.
Yeah, the report card's nice.
It's got a lot of really nicefeedback about individual
podcast apps and particularlynice feedback about I wouldn't
want to be the guy at Apple Nicefeedback.
No, it's actually as muchbetter for Apple.

Sam Sethi (01:23:09):
That wasn't me, I promise you.
I didn't write that.
It wasn't me.

Much.
That wasn't me, I promise you.
I didn't write that.
It wasn't me Much better forApple this year, but yeah so.
But no, it's been really niceactually seeing it and really
nice this time actually havingthe time to go through and do
that properly and also, for thefirst time, having the bravery
to go in and have a look at thementions that people made about
the Pod News newsletter.
Because that was the lastquestion is can Pod News do
anything better?
You know what's your feedbackBlah, blah, blah And-.

Sam Sethi (01:23:42):
Less AI, less AI.

I don't remember a single negative comment in
there.
It was all positive, which wasreally nice.
I didn't make that questionjust so that you would write
positive things.
I made that question becauseI'm genuinely interested, but
everything was all positive,which was really good.

(01:24:03):
The one interesting piece offeedback that I've had this week
has been somebody replying tothe email saying I don't suppose
anybody will read this, butwhich is always a good start,
and saying it'd be really niceif, instead of the top two, I
listed the top five podcasts inthe middle of the page.
Now, in the middle of the page,it's a little section called

(01:24:26):
number one for podcasting, whichis a little bit of a joke about
iHeart, and then it lists well,what she called the top two,
but clearly is not clear enough.
It's the number one in Spotifyin the US and then the number
one in Spotify in anothercountry because there are flags
there, but it's clearly notclear enough because she's

(01:24:47):
looked at that and gone.
It's the top two in Spotify andthe top two in Apple.
So really interesting, reallyinteresting getting feedback
like that and you go oh, I cansee why you've read it that way.
Right, I'll need to go andchange that and make that work
better.

Sam Sethi (01:25:02):
User feedback yes.

Yeah, so really interesting.
So I've enjoyed doing a littlebit of that.
A little bit of that as werecord this 114 minutes so far.
Let's see how much of that hasescaped after the edit.

Sam Sethi (01:25:20):
But that's it for this week All of our podcast
stories taken from the Pod NewsDaily newsletter at podnewsnet.
So the length of this show isyour fault, fundamentally
because everything's taken fromyour podcast daily.
Right, that's what I thoughtI'd say.
But you can support this showby streaming such.
You can give us feedback usingbuzzsprout fan mail in the link
in our show notes, and you cansend us either a super comment

(01:25:43):
or a boost.
Uh, you can also become a powersupporter with that now
sensational 17.
Who's going to be the?
What would 18 be, james?
What's the moniker that we'lladd.

Maybe the 18th can tell us.

Sam Sethi (01:25:56):
There you go At weeklypodnewsnet.

Yes, bring your credit card.
Our music is from StudioDragonfly.
Our voiceover is Sheila Dee.
We use Clean Feed for our audio.
We edit with Hindenburg andwe're hosted and sponsored by
Buzzsprout.
Start podcasting, keeppodcasting.

Get updated every day .
Subscribe to our newsletter atpodnewsnet.

Annalise Nielsen (01:26:19):
Tell your friends and grow the show and
support us, and support us.
The Pod News.

Weekly Review will return next week.
Keep listening.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Video and its part in podcasting - Annalise Nielsen from Pacific Content and Lower Street