with Skye Pillsbury - Spotify's Ad Analytics is launched, and Apple to kill value4value? - Podnews Weekly Review

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
James Cridland (00:00):
It's Friday, the 16th of June 2023.

Voice Over (00:04):
The last word in podcasting news.
This is the Pod News WeeklyReview with James Cridland and
Sam Suthey.

I'm James Cridland, the editor of Pod News
in Hayes in London.

Skye Pillsbury (00:18):
And I'm Sky Pillsbury.
I am the creator of the Squeezenewsletter here in California.

In the chapters today.
Spotify ad analytics has beenlaunched, rsscom has launched a
thing called PodViz, and Applemight be killing value for value
.
This podcast is sponsored andhosted by Buzzsprout.
Last week, 3,189 people starteda podcast with Buzzsprout.
Podcast hosting made easy withpowerful tools and remarkable

(00:45):
customer support, and now AI tohelp you publish your show.
and by Pod News Live in Londonthis September.
Tickets at podnewsnet slashlive.

Voice Over (00:56):
From your daily newsletter, the Pod News Weekly
Review.

Sky Pillsbury is in for Sam Suthey, who is
recovering from Pod News Liveearlier this week.
Actually, i believe he's goingto watch a Shakespeare play,
which is very fancy Yeah, whichis good.
So welcome along, sky Pillsbury.

Well thank you so much.

So thrilled to have you Tell folks who, if
there's anybody that doesn'tknow about the Squeeze, tell
folks what the Squeeze is allabout.

I will, but first I just wanted to thank you
for having me on the show,james.
I'm thrilled to be here.
This is a lot of fun alreadyAnd about the Squeeze it's a
newsletter I started just abouta year ago actually.
I realized that the other dayAnd what I do is take a look at
the audio industry for peoplewho work within it, so hopefully

(01:44):
a lot of the people listeningto this might find that
interesting.
My latest story is part of aseries that I'm running on WNYC,
which produces a lot ofpodcasts that people listening
to this may have heard of TheNew York Radio Hour Death, sex
and Money a lot of beloved showsAnd I'm taking a deep dive in

(02:05):
looking at what's, what has beenthe evolution of WNYC and where
do things stand now.
They've had a lot of turnover.
There are actually a lot ofpeople managing that station who
have no radio experience, ifyou can believe that.
So I'm taking a look at sort ofwhat the impact of all of that
has been.

Yeah, and it's a great read as well and very
much enjoying it.
There's a there's a TV show inAustralia which is called Media
Watch, which is essentially aguy basically looking into the
media and looking into when theyscrew things up and everything
else, and the catchphrase forthat is everybody likes it until

(02:43):
they're in it, and I wonderwhether that might be the
catchphrase for the Squeeze.
Who knows?

Yeah, yeah, i can relate to that.
Yeah, it's, it can be a toughgo in this industry sometimes.

Yeah, yeah, well , exactly, and this industry
needs some really good reportingsuch as that.
So that's super good.
Tell me, where do I subscribeto the Squeeze?

You can find it on the Substack website.
So wwwsubstackcom.
Forward slash.
This is the Squeeze, and youcan subscribe right there and
check out my archives.
My main newsletter is totallyfree, so you can come and read
the bulk of my reporting, andthen there's some fun extras If

(03:28):
you decide you want to become apaid subscriber.
So you can check all of thatout on the website.
Excellent.

Well, shall we kick off for this week?
Let's do it.

Spotify has just announced Spotify at Analytics.
It's a free measurement,attribution and brand lift tool.
It uses first party data andthe Spotify Pixel.
It allows advertisers tounderstand if consumers heard an
ad and then took an action.
That seems like maybe the mostimportant thing to know, and

(04:00):
works for music and podcastadvertising on and off the
Spotify platform.
There are more details on theproduct's website.
James, help us understand whythis is important.
This is important.

Well, this is basically a pod site, as was.
So they bought pod sites a yearor so ago And this is pod sites
on steroids.
Basically, they seem to haveadded a bunch of different
features And what's reallyinteresting to me is that it's
not just available to podcastadvertisers on the Spotify

(04:34):
platform.
It's also available to peoplethat aren't advertising the
Spotify at all and not usingSpotify at all, and it's
completely free, which isinteresting.
I guess that Spotify get tokeep the data, i guess so that
they can see how all of thatworks.
But yeah, i thought it was areally interesting move from

(04:56):
them, clearly what that meansfor other podcast attribution
tools.
Who knows?

Yeah, i mean, obviously, from the advertiser
perspective, it's really helpfulto have that information.
Of course, my brain also goesto it's a little bit creepy, but
Well, yeah, i guess that'swhere we are with online
advertising these days.
Right, it's not like that isn'thappening already on a lot of
consumer commerce websites andthings like that.

Yeah, I think my understanding of it is if you
listen to a podcast, it worksout what your IP address is and
what sort of device you're using, And then there's a thing
called the Spotify Pixel whichis put onto your website if
you're an advertiser, and thenthat pixel spots you if you come

(05:43):
and have a look at that website.
So it knows that you've listenedto the ad.
It then knows if you've come tothe website or maybe bought a
product or whatever it ends upbeing.
I'm always sort of slightlynervous about that sort of thing
from a data protection point ofview.
It's one of the reasons why Idon't have any third party

(06:05):
embedded stuff on the Pod Newswebsite, because nobody wants
that.
Ah, good move.
But I think one of the thingsof course that Spotify is going
to learn is it's going to learnwhat the big shows are off the
Spotify platform.
Clearly, they know some of thatwith the megaphone platform
that they have, but they canprobably find out a little bit
more about other shows if peoplestart using that particular

(06:27):
tool.

Bigger and bigger player.
And data, that's for sure.
Oh yes, absolutely.

It's not the only thing that Spotify has done
this week, is it?

No.
Spotify has also announced thatit's selling its music and
podcast creation tool, soundtrap, back to its original founders.
No terms were given.
That's pretty unusual, anything.
Do you know anything else aboutthat, james?

Yeah, it is pretty unusual, isn't it?
They've done that once beforewith some other products that
they bought and then theythought, well, we don't really
need it.
But I think what's interestingabout this one is that they
spent quite some time making itbetter, and Soundtrap, if you
remember, back a couple of yearsago, was actually promoted as a
way that you could edit andrecord your podcast, so they

(07:12):
were actually doing it like thata few years ago.
They've completely stoppedpromoting it, but, yes, i wonder
whether Spotify have made aprofit.

Yeah, i wonder do you remember what they paid
for it?
I can't pull that up out of mybrain.

They got a $6 million funding round in 2016.
And that was a year before theacquisition, which was in
October 2017, therefore, i'mguessing.
So, yeah, so one would assumethat Spotify is at least looking
for that sort of amount ofmoney.
Yeah, exactly, but yeah, reallyinteresting to end up seeing.

(07:51):
But it's a fancy multi-trackrecorder that does music,
obviously, and podcasts as well.
So, yeah, so interesting,because you used to write for
inside podcasting.
Yes, yeah.

I'm sure I did write about this, but it was so
long ago now.
When did I write for insidepodcasting?
Did I start in?
I can't even remember 2017?
.

Voice Over (08:19):
The OG.
I am the OG, the OG editor ofit.
Yes, that's right.

Yes, the original, the original one I
think I started in it was either2017 or 2018, how embarrassing
that I can't even remember.
And then I wrote until reallyuntil maybe six months past the
start of the pandemic, so likefall of 2020.
I was finishing up the secondseason of the Inside Podcasting

(08:43):
podcast if there are any OGlisteners out there in which I
interviewed podcast creatorsabout their craft, and when the
pandemic hit and I knew that mykids were not going to be in
school in the fall of 2020, isaid I've got to finish this
podcast and finish up writingthis newsletter and hand over
the reins to someone else.
But I probably did write aboutthis.
It does sound familiar, yeah,yeah.

No, it's a good thing still going, although I
believe that other podcastnewsletters are available.

Voice Over (09:13):
Yes.

Spotify.
Spotify also.
They're doing quite a lot ofinteresting things.
They're doing a masterclass,aren't they?

Yes, they're doing a masterclass on quote
unlocking your podcast potential.
One of the speakers is Maya andI'm probably going to mess this
up Maya Prohovnik Prohovnik.
She is the VP of podcastproduct at Spotify, as well as
Jordan Newman, spotify's head ofpodcast partner management, and

(09:45):
Gail Eitor from TeenagerTherapy.
They're going to be running themasterclass and that sounds
pretty interesting.
I wonder what they're going tobe saying.
Are the major drivers ofunlocking your podcast potential
?
Any ideas?
James Indeed.

I've got absolutely no idea, and they ran
it on Wednesday And I believeit's up on the website as of now
, so we can all find outourselves.
I think it's interesting thatMaya Prohovnik all of a sudden
is getting a bit more public.
So I was sent something theother day from someone at

(10:18):
Spotify saying did you know thatMaya Prohovnik has a podcast
that she is doing herself withher, i think, husband, partner?
No, kidding, what's that?

What's the topic ?

The topic is I think it's something to do with
becoming a parent for the firsttime.
So yeah, so very different, butI find it interesting that they
are pushing Maya, as a person,to watch.

That is interesting, given how much
turnover they've had in thepodcast division over there.
They've let go of so much ofthe I guess old guard at this
point And Maya must be new guard.
I wonder if I have an emailfrom her as well.
I've been so heads down writingmy my my upcoming newsletter

(11:10):
issue that I haven't had achance to check.
But that is that's fascinating.
She certainly has a lot on herplate over there in Spotify
podcast, so looking forward toseeing more from her And maybe
I'll check out that podcast,although it sounds like maybe
her kids are much younger thanmine.
If her podcast is about havinga child for the first time, my
oldest is 17.

(11:30):
Oh wow, So we're moving intohaving adult children territory.

Yeah, that sounds terrifying.
My, my, i have a 10 year oldand and so I'm moving into into
teenager territory.

So that's going to be.
Oh yeah, hold on, hold on tight.
Yeah, that's going to be alittle bit terrifying One.

one more little bit of news about Spotify in
Asia.

Yes, so Spotify apparently isn't monetizing its
podcast inventory in Asia at themoment.
This is a claim from AudaciaCEO Kim Treasurer.
She wrote an article forcampaign which contains many
positive stats and quotes fromthe industry in Asia, but this

(12:14):
one sounds a little.
a little less positive perhaps.

It's interesting to see.
I've got a case study, whichyou'll have seen in Thursday's
newsletter, for a letter from acast talking about their a big
thing that they were doing inthe Philippines.
So clearly a cast is makingmoney in in APAC, but yeah, the

(12:37):
the the suggestion here is thatSpotify isn't yet doing that,
which I find interesting.
Normally, Spotify are very keento very quickly jump on
anything that I say, which isn'ttrue, Yes, And they, and they
haven't done that.
So, um, Oh, interesting.

Yes, The I that actually rings the bell for me.
I feel like I saw somethingrecently where where you had
said something and then Spotifycame in and wanted you to get it
right.

Oh yes.

What was that?
What am I?
what am I?
I'm spacing.

Point out my mistakes.
Why don't you?
I don't know, I can't, I can'tremember.

Let's just cut that all out, cut that piece up
with that, but just off therecord, not even, not even part
of this, like no, it wasentertaining to me because it
was like it was clearly Spotify,like worried about something.
Like it wasn't that you hadreported anything.
That wasn't correct.

Yeah.

It was more like the positioning of it.
They weren't happy about it, orsomething.

Yeah, exactly Shoot.

I can't remember .

Maybe it was a while back, but Oh, and they've
got, they've got an awful lot ofpress, of press focus, you will
know.
So, uh, yeah, it's alwaysinteresting knowing exactly who,
uh, you know when, when.
I always find it interestingasking somebody for a quote at
Spotify, because it's always adifferent person every time, So
it's always quite fun.

Well, and I have to say, for me they're not very
responsive.
I mean, i can't blame them,given the kinds of stories that
I tend to write, but I am.
I find it's really hard.
I mean, i've had better luck,obviously, reaching people at
Gimlet.
I have relationships there, but, um, you know Gimlet, which
doesn't really technically existanymore, i guess, but I have
had a really tough time, uh,with Spotify.

(14:16):
So the fact that you'reactually getting a response,
james, i think says a lot.

Oh well, yeah, Well, maybe, maybe, yeah, it's
interesting about Gimlet andParkast.
They, they, so the thebusinesses are merging, aren't
they, into Spotify studios?

Being absorbed.
It said something like that inthe in the in the memo.
Do we?

know whether or not the brand is actually going
away Are will you no longer seeGimlet or Parkast on the show
It's my, my suspicion is we'llprobably still see that.

Yeah, i don't know, um, you know I according
to, like, the Gimlet union.
Uh, you probably saw they putout a tweet saying as of today,
gimlet is no more.
I can't remember if they saidthe same thing about Parkast.
Yeah, um, so that made me sortof immediately think like that
the brand was going to beabsorbed as well, i think.

(15:06):
I think it's probably.
If they're, if they're not goingto keep those organizations
separate and they're going to becreating, you know just,
they're going to be merging sortof like their own content you
know, spotify studio contentwith Parkast and Gimlet.
I mean, how, even if they keepthe brands for a little while,
does it really make sense to dothat?
in the longterm?
It might just confuse, you know, new listeners.

(15:30):
So I wouldn't be surprised if,in the longer term, those just
become Spotify podcasts.
I don't really see what thebenefit is at this point, given
the fact that if anyone GooglesGimlet or Parkast, they're going
to see all this baggage, youknow acquired and layoffs and
this and that Like.
Why do that?
Why not just absorb them intoSpotify?

(15:51):
It makes me, i mean, i'mheartbroken over it, of course.

Yeah.

But they're, you know, with that, with 200
people being laid off, I mean,who's left?

Well, yeah, exactly, Because if you count up
the amount of people thatworked at Spotify and at Gimlet,
you got to about 200 people.
So I always found that, yeah, alittle bit strange.

Voice Over (16:14):
Anyway there we go, there we go.

Indeed, it remains to be seen.
Let's move on from Spotify,because we have other stories,
do we not?

Yes, we do.
Before we actually startedrecording.
You were telling me a littlebit about how you had a
networking event earlier thisweek in Media City, uk in
Salford earlier this week.
Wait, let me do that again.

And it's Salford Not.

Salford.
Ok, say it again Salford,salford, salford.
Am I saying Salford?
Yeah, do I say the R Yeah?

Voice Over (16:47):
Salford That's an American.
That's really weird.
Salford, yes.

I'll say it with a British accent.
That's right, why not?
It was held at Media City UK inSalford, or said in a British
accent, which you did a momentago, salford earlier this week.
I do a terrible British accent.

That's a terrible British accent.
Sounds like the Queen.
Hey, I'll take that as acompliment.

Your next event is in London on September 27.
But, first tell us how yourevent was that you just had And
yeah, let's start with that Howwas the event that you had
earlier this week?

It was really good.
actually, it was really good.
It's been absolutelyblisteringly hot in the UK this
week.
I think it went up to now.
here you go, see, i'm going tosay it went up to 29, and that
sounds very cold obviously.

So what's that in American?

84.
Yeah, so incredibly hot, whichhas been very nice actually, and
we had a good amount of peoplewho came and there was a lot of
show and tell.
That's the theory behind theseevents, and then either Sam or I

(18:02):
jump on stage and interview thefolks afterwards.
I was trying to understand howmuch one of the people pays its
producers and didn't get much ofan answer.
That was quite funny, but yeah,no, it was a really good event,
so thoroughly enjoyed that.
The next one that we're doingis in London, as you say, on

(18:24):
September the 27th It's the daybefore the British Podcast
Awards.

Oh, perfect.

So if you're making your way to London.
Then just make your way toLondon a day earlier and come to
the networking event that we'rerunning there, an easy add-on.
We've got some super goodspeakers as well.
Can you tell us any of them?
Well, i can tell you.
I think I can tell you thatwe've got the big boss of A-Cast

(18:51):
, ross Adams, and so superlooking forward to that, and
we're hoping for another verybig name, but I don't want to
jinx it by mentioning who it is.

So yeah, that sounds very intriguing.
I wish I was going to be inLondon on September 27.
So where can people get ticketsfor the event, James?

I'm glad you asked.
They can get tickets atpodnewsnet slash live.
It's going to be held in OldTelevision Center, so in White
City, where all of the TV usedto be made and where I once used
to walk around the corridors atwork.
Wow, Really looking forward to.

Do you work in television, James?

I used to work for the BBC.

That I did now actually.

For two years, but I'm cured, now Recovered.
Yeah, super, super, lookingforward to that.
It's now a Soho house And, yes,we're holding it there, so come
along, get your tickets.
Podnewsnet, slash live Andwe'll see you there on September
the 27th.

So for some more news, podcast hosting company
rsscom has launched PodViz.
It's an in-house visualizationtool to produce videos from
audio podcasts for services likeYouTube.
The service supports chapterart and YouTube metadata.
I don't, so what do you thinkabout YouTube videos and all

(20:20):
that for podcasts?
I've heard you talk about itbefore.
Oh yes, What are your thoughts?

As you know well .
I mean, let's start with mythoughts on this rsscom tool.
It's a very smart tool.
If you want to upload yourpodcast onto YouTube and you
want to reach folk there, thenthis does a very nice job.
I think it is the only one thatdoes chapter art.
It supports, by the way, itsupports podcasting 2.0 chapter

(20:44):
art, so it's the fancy one, andit converts that into the video
and everything else and does allof the YouTube metadata so that
the chapters still exist in theYouTube player.
So all of that is very, verysmart, and you don't need to be
with rsscom to use it.
If you host with somebody elsemaybe you host with our sponsor,
buzzsprout then you can stilluse this rsscom slash podviz.

(21:07):
That's V-I-Z or V-I-Z if youwant to pronounce that more
correctly, anyway, so that'spretty good.
What do you think of YouTube,though, getting into the
podcasting world?

You know, i mean , i guess it's fine, it's fine.

Yeah.

I'm just fine with it.
You know, i just have I feel soold school or slash old when I
say this.
but to me, the magic of apodcast is that you're listening
to it and not looking at it.
Yeah, and so the I guess it'sreally just a semantic
frustration for me, and that Ifeel like a YouTube video is a

(21:50):
video, it's not a podcast.
But you know, i know that youknow, a lot of podcasters are
having a lot of great success,you know finding, you know new,
you know bringing new peopleinto their funnel, so to speak,
and that's important.
I certainly wouldn't want thatto, you know, to not happen.
But at the same time, you know,i feel like, you know, the
priority should be makingsomething that sounds great.

(22:12):
But that's just my own, my ownpreference.
And you know, when I talk to mykids, who I mentioned earlier,
i have actually two teenagers inthe house, one's 14, one 17.
They very rarely listen topodcasts unless they're with me
in the car and I've trapped them, yeah, and most of the time
they're watching on YouTube.
So you know, i have to givethat some respect.

(22:35):
I have to honor the fact thatthat is happening and not
pretend that it's not.
You know.

Yeah, yeah, no, indeed, and I think there was
some data that came out from theReuters Institute in
Wednesday's pod news about thenumber one podcast platforms in
various countries for newspodcasts And weirdly, youtube
ended up being number one in theUS, spotify number one pretty

(23:01):
well everywhere else, and I'mjust there.
I don't necessarily see that inthe numbers.

Yes, i heard you talking about this the other
day on the show And it seemsreally surprising to me too,
like where are they gettingthose numbers?
And you know, we know thatnumbers can get ginned up as
well.
We've heard that quite a bit inon YouTube and other platforms,
so you know, who knows?
I don't see the numbers either.
I think you said something likeI'm not seeing the numbers and

(23:29):
I don't know any otherpodcasters who are seeing those
numbers, but maybe they stillexist.
And yeah, i had the same, i amhaving the same experience.

Yeah, Yeah, no, indeed.
Well, it's worth a go anyway,It's a free service from our
friends at rsscom, And I shouldsay that I'm an advisor to RSS.
Sam edits the script for thisvery show.
He's very exercised about thisnext story all about Apple.

(24:01):
What's the what's the story?
sky.

So the big story is that Apple has stopped
micropayments.
Damus, a Nostar app on iOS, hashad to remove the zap button on
post because this is consideredquote selling digital content
by Apple.

Voice Over (24:15):
Yeah, so what's the deal?

with this James.

Well.
So Sam is very upset and hasleft lots of, lots of notes,
which he's highlighted in brightorange in here, but the
implications are.
So Damus is is a chat app, butthe way that Nostar works is
that you can zap someone if youreally like what they have said,
and by zapping somebody, youare giving them a very small

(24:41):
amount of money in the form ofsats, in the form of, you know,
very small amounts of BitcoinAnd and, of course, tim Apple
has gone.
Hang on a minute.
Normally I get 30% of all ofthe money that goes through all
of these apps, so I'd like 30%of the money from this, please.
And Damus is you know the folksbehind the Damus app, you know

(25:04):
understandably slightlyaggrieved, but Sam points out
that apps like fountain, likepodfriend, like other apps that
are using value for value forpodcasting 2.0, payments with
boostergrams and all of thatstreaming sats stuff Those are

(25:25):
all doing much the same sort ofthing.
So this potentially means thatthose may be whisked off the the
Apple App Store as well, whichis slightly scary.
Sam then adds a hashtaggaslighting hashtag, gatekeeper
hashtag, anti competitive.
It's clearly very upset aboutthis.

Yes, he's very worked up and it does seem a bit
draconian to be doing somethinglike this, but at the same time
I I guess this is their policyright, but it does it.
I can see why he is upset.

Yeah, i guess it is their policy And I guess I'm
surprised that they haven'tbeen upholding their policy
until now with these sorts ofapps.
But what I would also say is,of course, you know, there's the
PayPal app, there's yourbanking app, there's, you know,
venmo.
Apple doesn't ask for 30% ofall of the money for those apps,

(26:20):
and isn't this?

the sort of a good point.
Yeah, so that's not about itthat way.

Isn't this the same as a PayPal app or a Venmo
app or everything else?
So I think it's going to beinteresting to see whether Damus
does a good job of you know, ofappealing this and fighting
back, Because it could be, itcould be quite bad for you know,
for podcasting.

(26:46):
That said, of course, Apple hasrecently enabled PWAs, which is
a way of using a website as ifit's an app anyway, And so
perhaps this will just hastenthe use of those.
So who knows?

But anyway, Yeah , whatever the way forward is,
hopefully they will just.
This will help them makedecisions that are clear for
everyone, so that it's not sothat no one is confused and and
sort of at the last minute, youknow, finding out this
information and and with nowarning, that's probably part of
what's most frustrating.

Well, yeah, indeed, they've got basically
two weeks to get that paymentstuff out of their app,
otherwise it'll be taken out ofthe app store entirely.
So you can well understand thatpeople are a little bit upset
about that.
Most definitely, hey, podcastadvertising works.
Sky, no kidding.

Are you kidding?
I am just I'm just learningthis to.
Apparently, according to EdisonResearch, 46% of weekly podcast
listeners have bought a productor service because they heard a
podcast ad for it.
That is not not incredible newsto you and me, but hopefully it

(28:04):
is reaching the ears of peoplewho need to hear it.
That data is actually up quitea bit from 34% in Q1 of 2020.

Yeah, and I when I was writing this up, i was
there thinking well, that meansthat podcast ads are more
effective, right?
And then I thought, no, it justmeans that people have listened
to podcasts for longer And sotherefore they're more likely to
have bought something, i guess.
Oh, yes, because it's it's.
these have ever bought aproduct or service?

(28:34):
And I have a.
I have a bit of a thing aboutresearch that asks have you ever
done something?
Because I'm there going.
yeah, i mean I've.
I've once stood on a on a Legobrick, in in their feet That
doesn't necessarily mean thatI'm going to do that again.
You know what I mean.

Yes, that's right.
It's not a cumulative like haveyou has, have you done it even
more and more as time has goneby.
It's just have you ever done it, and then that's that one sort
of sunk cost and it lastsforever.
So have you, james, boughtsomething that you've heard in
an ad on a podcast?

I mean, i guess I probably have, because I've
heard an awful lot of ads.
Yes, have I bought them?
Have I bought somethingspecifically because I heard I
don't know, i think maybe.
Yeah, i think maybe I waslistening to ATP once and and
they were talking so excitedlyabout hover for for website

(29:31):
domain names that I went tohover, so yeah, so maybe I have.

Yeah, well, there you go, You can you can,
you can.

You can chalk me down in terms of that, and
Triton is going to make iteasier for people to buy all
kinds of advertising in thefuture.

Yes, it's letting advertisers book ads on
broadcast radio and streamingalongside podcasts.
Apparently, the company claimsit as an industry first.
Broadcast radio inventoryincludes iHeart medias 850 plus
stations and will shortly add3,400 plus stations represented
by Katz media.
The company suggests thatmaking advertising easier to buy

(30:08):
will benefit all parts of theindustry.
Is this an industry first,james?
Do you know?

Yeah, i don't know whether it's necessarily an
industry.
First, i have a feeling thatthere's a system called Jet in
the UK which I think is doingmuch the same sort of thing, but
I wonder whether or not lots ofpeople are going to be buying
ads on broadcast radio as aresult, and I wonder whether or

(30:36):
not it's just broadcast radiowanting a little bit of the halo
effect from podcast advertising.
Obviously, podcast advertisingis increasing an awful lot at
the moment.
I think it was up by 26% lastyear, or maybe it was even 29%,
whereas you have a look atbroadcast radio and that is most
certainly not up by 26%.

(30:56):
So maybe it's iHeart going.
Yeah, this is another way ofgetting our product in front of
ad buyers, and Katz media ishuge.
It represents pretty well therest of the industry.
So maybe it's a dying mediumgoing.
We need to be able for peopleto buy our stuff in other places

(31:20):
.
I don't know, but yeah,interesting.

I think it's definitely a smart move And
actually, to be honest with you,i'm surprised that, i mean,
this makes it sound like thatwasn't possible before, like it
just seems so, like in some waysit seems like, yeah, of course
you should be able to buy both.
You know, check both of thoseboxes when you're making an ad
buy.
But in any event, it soundslike the right thing to do, i
agree.
I think it probably is going togive terrestrial radio a bit of

(31:48):
a, you know, some kind of abounce or halo effect, whatever
you want to call it.

So I think that's a good thing.

So some news around the world.
James in Saudi Arabia, spotifymore news from Spotify is
running a gaming podcast PodCampin Saudi Arabia.
The company is working withKearnyng Cultures and Gamers 8.
I haven't heard of any of thosecompanies.

Saudi Arabia's a fascinating market, as a lot of
the Arab markets are in termsof podcasting real growth going
on And I find it interestingthat Spotify is very much
getting behind specific contentin this way in the country.
So Kearnyng Cultures is apodcast production company.

(32:35):
that's quite a few of the Arabbut speaking nations.
So, yeah, i find thatinteresting that Spotify is
doing that.
you know, work with creators.
I mean, i was at a big event inGermany that Spotify was
running as well, so you know,you can very clearly see that

(32:55):
they are doing a little bit ofthis stuff.
So that was interesting spotting.
And in Australia, the InfiniteDial 2023 Australia it's the
gold standard of data, includingpodcast consumption data.
That's going to come out onJune the 27th, that is.
You'll be able to watch that ona webinar, probably on June the

(33:18):
26th in the US, june the 27thin Australia.
Hello TimeZones And it willgive us a new number for how
many people listen to podcastsin Australia.
It would be nice if Australiabeat the US, but not sure
whether that's going to happen.

Time will tell The tech stuff on the Pod News
Weekly Review.

Yes, it's the stuff you'll find every Monday
in the Pod News newsletter.
Here's where we do all of thetech talk.
Good Luck, Sky.
Let's start with news about 3Dsound.

Ah yes, Noiser is to launch 3D sound across the
company's podcast network.
The company uses 3D sound todescribe binaural sound, a
recording technique that workson any player or headphones.
Oh, I like binaural sound.
It makes things sound, so 3D.

Yeah, yeah, and it works.
Binaural sound is nice becauseit works on pretty well anything
And it works through Applepodcasts and you know Google
podcasts and Spotify andeverything else.
There is Dolby Atmos, which ismuch more complicated, which
basically doesn't, and that'sthe surround sound stuff.
Do you think that people carethat much about?

(34:32):
you know audio quality andaudio sound.

You know, I think that it depends on the
type of podcast you're listeningto, potentially.
But if you're putting together,say like a fiction podcast or
you know something where reallyfeeling that sense of
multidimensional sound can makea difference, I don't know that
it's a reason to not listen to apodcast if they don't have it,

(34:59):
if you're really interested inwhatever their, whatever the
content is.
But I do think that once you'veexperienced it it's pretty
incredible and you might gethooked and then start looking
for more stuff.
So if Noiser is going to bedoing this across their network
of podcasts, maybe they feellike that will give them some
kind of an edge.

Yeah, I think it's probably an interesting
thing.
I know that in terms of DolbyAtmos.
I think Q-Code has done a bitof work with that.
I think Wondery as well.
I think the Wondery appsupports that as well, but
that's good.
It's time for a drink, becausewe're going to be mentioning AI.

Do you do a drink?
Is there?
a drinking game 7.30 am in themorning for me here, but I'll
take a drink.
Snippid has launched a chatGBT-powered feature that
automatically summarizes the keypoints from podcasts you listen
to.
You can join the waitlist onthe Snippid website.

(35:59):
By the way it's spelledS-N-I-P-D.
So how do you feel about thischat GBT-powered feature, james?

Yeah, I'm always slightly nervous about stuff
that takes things that creatorshave done and messes about with
it, as this feature clearly does.
What happens if chat GBT getsthe wrong end of the stick?
I never quite know who'sresponsible then, So I'm never

(36:29):
quite sure about it.
But it's the only use currentlythat I'm giving AI when I'm
writing the daily newsletter isthat occasionally I will copy
and paste a long press release.
This will as a former personwho worked in PR Sky, you will

(36:51):
hate this, But I will copy andpaste a press release into
Google Bard and say please tellme what this press release is
about in just two sentences.

I think that's brilliant, james.
I don't hate it at all.
In fact, when I was a publicist, my very first job I just have
to mention this, my very firstjob was at a PR firm, and
they're like quote unquote.
Secret sauce, they felt, wasthat at the top of their press
releases they would have sort ofa literal like box, like a

(37:25):
square box on the first page,and within that square box they
had two sentences that summarizethe entire press release, and I
really think it did help forthem like get the point across.
It was like an easy way forjournalists to just like get the
information and move on, and sothe fact that you're now using
chat GBT to do it, i actuallythink is a brilliant thing.
I mean that's the perfect usefor something like that

(37:47):
Absolutely And that's the bestway to get it wrong.
So you sort of have tounderstand, you have to make
sure that they're actuallygetting it right.
But which is always the thingthat for me and AI and chat GBT,
all this stuff seems a littlewobbly Like, are they going to
get it right?
But as long as you know andJames, you're very intelligent,
i'm sure you understand themeaning of press releases with a
quick skim So as long as youknow that, then I think you're

(38:09):
safe.

And I'm supportive.
Well, it depends.
It depends Some of the pressreleases I get.
I simply do understand them.
So, yeah, and sometimes thepress releases say one thing and
mean another.
So overhaul FM is a new podcastapp that came out last week.
The press release says no ads,says it curates its featured

(38:30):
podcasts, but then in the nextparagraph literally the next
paragraph says that if you're apodcaster, you can pay $89 or
more to advertise your podcastas a feature within the app.
So it's not curated at all.
No, and it's also pretty,pretty rubbish.
It doesn't play the pod clockapp testing podcast that that

(38:53):
we've put out there.
It doesn't support episodeimages.
One kind of wonders why they,why they've bothered?
basically because it's clearlya podcast that doesn't work very
well.

Yeah, I wonder who's behind this.
It sounds a little janky and.

I would suspect it's like one person who's
behind it And yeah, and theydon't know much about the whole
podcast landscape, But yeah soyeah.
So anyway, so that's, that's anew podcast that that you can,
that you can happily ignore.
It seems to use the Apple, theApple data, and the very clever

(39:33):
Nathan Gathwright is doingsomething smart, isn't?

it.
Yes, he's working on atranscription service to produce
word by word Jason transcripts.
We all need more transcripts,so this sounds like a good thing
, right.

Yeah, it's always good to see more
transcription tools out there.
I believe that it's going to beon transcribefm, which he said
surprisingly wasn't taken.
It wasn't taken, nathan,becausefm is really expensive,
because there's a nice mancalled George and George will
sell thosefm's to people.
But, yeah, so so that should be.

(40:07):
That should be really good.
And it does remind me thatNathan, who I think listens to
the show, did actually writesome code for me which came in a
busy week for me, which I thenignored, and I've got no idea
where that code is now to dosome word by word, jason, stuff
for this very show and forothers as well, so I should
probably Nathan, resend the code.

(40:29):
Yes, yes, i think it's somewhereon MasterDawn, but who knows?
Let's have a quick look at someupcoming events.
Podcast movement, of course,happening in Denver between
October the 21st and the 24th,which should be fun.
The first set of speakers hasbeen announced.
I am going.
I like moderating panels,otherwise I'm not speaking.
So if you're running a paneland you need a white middle aged

(40:53):
man, then great, go for it.
That should be a winning plan.

I think that's a great idea.

Yeah, yeah, because because you know, let's
face it, there's not enough ofthose And a couple of big events
obviously coming on inSeptember.
There's pod news live, which istowards the end of September in
London on the 27th, pod newsdot net slash live for those
tickets.
The British podcast awards onSeptember the 28th, which I

(41:23):
think there might be a couponcode for for you to get money
off those.
I should go and check that, butthat should be good.
There's a thing called theindependent podcast awards,
which will be held in London onOctober the 12th.
What do you think of aindependent podcast awards?

Well, i'd love to know what they mean by
independent first off.
You know, are these, you knowwho's who's behind them?
I, i.
This is the first I've heard ofthem.

Oh well, it's two companies, one called why
now, and one called verbaldiorama.
Wow.

That's quite a name, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, purple, purple diorama Yes, and they
define independent podcasters asbeing podcasters that don't
have the financial backing ofbrands to support them.

It's going to get tricky because there are
podcasters who are sort ofhybrids.
There are podcasters who get afund, you know, get funding by
you know.
I just know that many timeswhen I've tried to really be
clear about like okay, this iswhat an indie podcaster is, i
wonder how strict they're goingto be, because there's there's a
lot of gray areas in terms ofhow podcasters fund their

(42:38):
creations?
Yeah, Exactly.

I mean there was .
there was one in India, I thinkit might have been the ambies,
where one of the nominations forthe indie podcast award was a
show from my heart, which I'mnot sure necessarily fits the
bill.

I remember that, yeah, yeah.

I mean, I guess, from my point of view, I I'm I
really don't like the idea ofindie podcast awards, because
what you're basically sayingthere is that indie podcasts
aren't good enough to win thebig awards, So you have to have
special awards for them.
And I'm kind of there thinkingno, that's entirely wrong.
Indie podcasts are great andfantastic and can very easily

(43:22):
win awards.

That's a good point.

I'm kind of you know, i mean supportive To them,
but I'm also thinking, yeah,you know.
So.
M McGowan, who is the creatorand host of verbal diorama, said
that independent podcasts arethe cornerstone of podcasting.
These are people with regularjobs, families and other
commitments who still endeavorto put out quality podcast

(43:45):
content regularly, often fromspare bedrooms, garages or the
dining room table, whichcompletely agree.
And so the Phoenix Arts Club inLondon on the 12th of October.
I remember the Phoenix ArtsClub because that was one place
in London that was still openafter the pubs closed, and so,

(44:09):
therefore, that was somewherethat I got to know relatively
well when I used to work in thecenter of London And I was a
member.
I was a member.

So this will be just your, your old stomping
grounds, if you stop by, forsure, yeah.

So maybe I should, although frankly that
would mean getting on a planeand we don't want that.
And October the 21st, the Afrosand Audio podcast festival,
which is happening in Baltimoreas well.
And then finally, for this, theInternational Women's Podcast
Awards, hosted in London, again,i think, good Lord On Monday,

(44:48):
the 6th of November.
And there are more events, bothpaid for and free, at Pod News
virtual events or events in aplace with people.
If you're organizing something,you can tell the world about it
, and it's free.
podnewsnet slash events.
Boostergram.
Boostergram Corner.

Voice Over (45:03):
Corner Corner on the Pod News Weekly Review.

Oh yes, it's our favorite time of the week,
Isn't it Sky?
It's Boostergram Corner.

Ah, yes, i'm so excited about Boostergram Corner
.
Yes.

Yes, I'm guessing that inside podcasting,
when you were doing thatpodcast didn't have uh
boostergrams on it because uhboostergrams hadn't been
invented yet.

No, we definitely did.
This is totally new to me,although I do think it has
something to do with uhcommentary that you've gotten
from people who listen to theshow.

Yes, that's, uh, that is exactly it.
So a boostergram is somebodythat has sent a boost, which is
a small amount of money, um, andthey accompany that with a
message, um, which is, uh, anexcellent way.
I always think of gettingcomments in, because every
comment makes you richer, ooh,uh, albeit not that much richer,

(45:59):
um.
So, uh, we've got one from themere mortals podcast, um, uh,
here, haven't we?

Yes, it says hope your pod news event goes
schmick fellas.
I'm not really sure whatschmick means, but okay, um,
james, don't forget to bring meback some pod fans swag when you
come home.
I'm a medium.

Yeah, Well, um, that's Kyrin from the mere
mortals podcast.
He is uh, he's an, he's an.
Aussie Schmick means somethingthat's really, really good.

I'm feeling schmick, so is.
it's an Australian slang term,i assume.

Yeah, yeah, it's Australian slang.
I've lived there for six years.
I understand Australian slangnow, so that's a good thing
isn't it?

Oh nice.

Uh, he sent us a row of ducks double two, double
, two sats.
Uh, thank you, kyrin, for that.
The bad news is that Sam didnot give me any pod fans swag,
uh, so unfortunately, i'm notbringing any back into the great
country of Australia And sotherefore I won't be able to uh,
bring that back to you.

So next time.

But who knows, maybe we can do the yeah another
time.
uh, uh, september.
Uh, i'm sure that that's a planUm, and a massively long uh
message here from Martin atPodfriend.

Yes, it's massively long, it's two words.
Love listening.
Yes, and he sent you 10,000sats, which I guess must be even
more, uh, more money, so you'reeven richer.

Yes, That's um 10,000 sats, which is two, two
dollars 60.
So, um, that's almost enoughfor, uh, half of a pint of beer.

Yes, I was just going to say you can buy
yourself half a drink, uh,something relatively inexpensive
, okay.
So, yes, something superinexpensive.

Somebody was saying, uh, we were.
I was chatting to somebody wholistens to this show, um, at uh
Pod News Live earlier on in theweek and they said, what's all
this boostergram stuff?
What does it?
what, what, what, what even isa boostergram?
And I said, well, it's about$2,000 so far, and that and that
changed their, uh, their, their, their thought of, uh, how all

(48:05):
of this stuff works.

So well, it really does add up right.
Yeah, like every little, everylittle bit, i mean I mentioned
earlier I have paid subscribersfrom my newsletter and each time
I get a little ding and someonesubscribed it.
really it really does.
over time It builds up.

So it's an important thing.
And, of course, there's uhstreaming sats as well, which is
where you say I'm going to um,i'm going to pay I don't know 10
sats or maybe 100 sats everyminute that you listen Um, and
that's another great way of umof earning out of this uh as
well.
It's all to do with value forvalue, what value you get, um,

(48:41):
and giving that value back interms of time, talent or
treasure.
Uh, if you get value from whatwe do at the Pod News Weekly
Review, it's um separate fromPod News.
Sam and I share everything fromit and we really appreciate
your support so we can helpcontinue making this show.
Um, you can either um supportus with uh dollars at
weeklypodnewsnet or support uswith sats by hitting the boost

(49:03):
button in your podcast app.
If you don't have a suitablepodcast app, then that's fine.
Just download Fountain.
That will work uh excellently,uh, or you can find out more at
podnewsnet slash new podcastapps.
How's your week been?
That's going.

Oh, it's really busy, busy writing Um.
I'm writing the third part inmy series and, uh, last time I
focused on WNYC studios andprogress there over the past
four years, and in my next issueI'll actually be continuing the
thread and adding a bunch ofinformation, uh, that I didn't
include last time because ofspace.
um, specifically, all you knowalso about WNYC studios and and

(49:42):
its progress, its innovation, orlack thereof, over the past
four years, but I'll also belooking at the WNYC newsroom, um
, in this last piece to see, um,why, why the output there has
changed as well.
So I'm really really busytrying to get that out before I
leave on vacation.
I'm leaving on vacation, comingto where you are right now,

(50:03):
james, flying to London onFriday.

Yes, which will be very exciting.
It may still be very, very hot,uh, or it'll probably be be
back to its normal, uh sort ofum pouring itself.
Um, uh you, you, uh.
Have you got anything excitingplanned?
Are you coming to see someshows while you're here, and
that sort of thing?

Yes, we've got a few things on the calendar, but
we didn't schedule a lot.
We we like with our two kids,our plan is usually one touristy
thing during the day, then thekids can have a break, we can,
my husband and I can walk around, grab a drink, whatever, and
then we all meet up at nightagain.
So we've got it's pretty loose.
Um, i've found that in London,like you, don't have to reserve

(50:43):
a lot of stuff in advance,although we have gotten tickets
to uh Book of Mormon, whichprobably isn't totally age
appropriate, but we think ourkids are going to love it.
Um, and uh, some other funthings.
And obviously we're going to doall the touristy stuff, like
you know, uh towers of Londonand Buckingham Palace and all of
that.
So we're really looking forwardto that.

Yes And uh, yes, no, it's, it's, it's going to
be, it's going to be a good, agood time, i think, And uh, yeah
, and enjoy uh the the fun ofthe um, uh, of the subway and
everything else.
Uh, it's um.
The thing that surprises meafter spending, you know,
obviously, quite, quite a lot oftime away but I used to live
here Um is just the amount of,um, uh, the amount of people

(51:24):
that's gone from the streets.
I was in the city of London onFriday And, um, you know it,
when I was living here, um five,six, seven years ago, um, the
city of London would beabsolutely full of, you know,
bankers finishing their Fridaygoing to the pub, um, and it
would have been impossible to,you know, sit down for a quiet

(51:47):
beer.
Um, this, this Friday, whichwas the start of a of a holiday
weekend as well, uh, this Friday, there was literally one person
in the pub that I walked pastat, uh, half past seven in the
evening.
Wow, um, because everybodyworks from home now.

Yeah, you know the.
I live in the Bay Area, as youknow, and our downtown, downtown
San Francisco, is similar.
It's it's much quieter than itused to be, it's um, it's really
distressing.
Yeah, that's, that's, that's uhsad to hear.
I'm, i'm, i'm.
I hope things change over time.
Yeah, we'll have to see.

I hope so, I hope so.
It does make you wonder what'sgoing to happen to the property
market and all of that.
but still, there you go.

Oh yeah, real estate.
It's definitely in trouble herein San Francisco.
We'll have to see whether thereis over time, if there's a
return or if people just stay athome.
It seems like it's definitelygoing to lean towards people
staying at home, but who knows,We'll see what the future holds.
In any event, James, I'm goingto definitely go to London so I
can show people my amazingBritish accent, as I was, you

(52:52):
know, doing that for you earlierin the call.
I'll be, you know, just reallyblowing people away with my
British accent for the next week.

Yes, yes, not necessarily sure that that's a
thing.

You sound genuinely shocked.

There's a worry.
There's a worry, we'll have afantastic time in the UK.

Thank you, and how about you?
What's happening for you thisweek, james?

Well, i mean, obviously I'm spending.
I'm spending a long time onplanes, trains and automobiles,
except not the automobiles bit.
So Manchester was lovely.
It was very unusual going toManchester and it being sunny,
so that was a nice thing.
And yes, and I'm just gettingready to tomorrow morning I will

(53:38):
be flying your way.
I'm going over to Torontospending the night in a airport
hotel because flights and thenToronto, vancouver back home, so
imagine the excitement that I'mgoing to have.
It's a 14, 14 and a half hourflight.
Oh wow, In coach.

Yeah, brutal, brutal.
But the reward of being in yourhome, sweet home, i'm sure.
Oh, yes, yes, very much lookingforward to that.

And yeah, and then, and then, and then.
my next flight will be over toDenver, colorado, for podcast
movement.
That is, of course, assumingthat your company, your assuming
that your country hasn't goneinto civil war by then.

No, you never know here in the US.

Wow, what on earth.

Anyway, let's not.
Let's not get into politics.
A different conversation for adifferent time.

It most certainly is, and that's it for
this week.

Yes, you can ask Sam and James questions using
the email, weekly at pod newsdot net, or send them a booster
gram for feedback which, asyou've been able to tell you,
you might even hear your ownfeedback on this very show.

Oh yes.

If your podcast app doesn't support boost, then
grab a new app from pod news dotnet.
Forward slash new podcast apps.

Our music is from studio dragonfly, i voice
over is Sheila D, and we'rehosted and sponsored by
Buzzsprout podcast hosting madeeasy.
Thank you so much, sky.

This was a thrill.
I really enjoyed it.
Please have me back.
This was lots of fun.

Voice Over (55:14):
Get updated every day.
Subscribe to our newsletter atpod news dot net.

Tell your friends and grow the show and
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Voice Over (55:24):
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