John Tucker Must Die

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the podcast everybody. I am your host James. This is another episode of polarized

(00:25):
podcast about polarizing movies, the movies that are divisive on rotten tomatoes, the
movies that audiences and critics disagree on the most. Those are the movies that we
like to talk about. John Tucker Must Die is a critically panned movie. He's sitting
at a 28% by the critics here. He's got a 69 by the audience, I thank you. And it is

(00:49):
from 2006 aggressively 2006 this movie, the cast, the music T2B is 2006. I'm looking at
the poster right here. Let's let's take a look. It looks like it is a woman facing the
opposite direction and you can see above her hindquarters is what we like to call in 2006,

(01:15):
the tramp stamp. And this tramps. This is what it's called. I promise you. And the tramp
stamp reads John Tucker Must Die and the poster of the movie is a tramp stamp that says John
Tucker must die. It says don't get mad. Get even. And we are here to talk about it. I
have never seen it. This is my first time. It's not just me. Let's get everyone else

(01:39):
in here. That's right. Everyone one at a time, though, because I really want to start with
my main man, Brandini right here. Come on. Come on. Man, talk about this guy. It's got
a way from the. Sorry to say, sorry to say hindquarters. I know that was the most clinical

(02:04):
approach to that, but I was trying to be as delicate as it could before I said, though,
the term tramp stamp. But in, I mean, in the spirit of 2006, there is a lot of non-delicate
things said in this movie. So it would go along with what we are about to talk about.
Man, I had not seen this movie before either. Excellent. So watching this at this point

(02:29):
in my life and watching this more is just a movie as opposed to I'm sure when it came
out and we'll talk to our guests and get them in here soon. But like this would have been
something that you're like, well, let's go to the movie theater with our friends because
we are kids and have nothing else to do. It's like, let's we're already at the mall. Let's
go see this movie and date night movie. Yeah. Yeah. Would you, you know, yeah. I mean,

(02:57):
maybe walking out, maybe you might have a conversation or something, but I think it's,
it's, it's fun for date night. Yeah. No, absolutely. And I, I will definitely get into it about
how the perspective of this is coming from a feminine perspective that's really interesting
in comparison to other movies of this time that were very like, you know, I don't know,

(03:21):
high school comedies, you know, getting on the borderline on the ranch side of things.
This, yeah. I mean, I don't know this doesn't star a nerdy boy or a just a male lead. This is
a female lead movie, which is, yeah. I'm sure it's really get raunchy either. Now that you,

(03:44):
I'm trying to think what's, what's some of the raunchiest stuff is. Yeah. Well, it doesn't get
that raunchy, which you know, it's not, it's not an American pie, national lampoon type situation.
Not another team. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, let's hear. I'll, I'll introduce
speaking of feminine perspective. No, let's get you in because yeah, we have so much to talk about.

(04:09):
I took an aggressive amount of notes on this movie because every line said in this movie,
just scenes in general were consounding of like, huh, wait a minute. What?
So yeah, I definitely want to talk about this movie in near pornographic detail. So let's get
into it. I would like to introduce our guest returning. You might know them from our Don't

(04:35):
Worry Darling, right? Is when we all did that together. Oh, Phantom of the Opera, my friend.
Yes. Oh, sexy Phantom. Uh,
Masker. What was it? What do we call it? Sexy Phantom, right? Anyways,
Rock Me Sexy Phantom. Rock Me Sexy Phantom. Returning to the podcast, we have Kara and Maddie. Hey,

(04:56):
Hey, Kara Maddie. What's going on? Is there any new Phantom news, Maddie? Do you know of?
Now that we're on Phantom. Phantom watch. Phantom watch. Phantom watch. Phantom has
left Broadway for good. So I think we have to probably like sleep on it for another like eight
years before they try to revamp it and bring it back. So I'm excited. Do you think they'll do a

(05:19):
traditional approach and just do it as it's always done once you bring it back or they'll try to
modernize it or something? No, they're going to call Basler men and they're going to make a crazy
movie. Yeah. Sign me up. It's going to happen. It's going to happen. Oh my gosh. Who would you cast?
We probably talked about this in Phantom, but in a Basler men feature, trying to think maybe an

(05:42):
Adam driver. We're going to have like a shot. Probably like a,
Shanley is going to go into like retirement and he's going to like come back.
Oh, I mean, he's pretty young. So I don't know. Eight years from now. Or maybe a John Tucker.

(06:05):
He's been in retirement for a while, probably since like 2006.
Oh, I can see Penban's coming back for this.
I'm going to do it. I'm going to. Yeah, Pen, Penban. That's the guy from you.
He's such a phantom. He's got such phantom energy. Are you kidding me? Yes. That's a great call.
I love that. Yeah. With the like creepy voiceovers.

(06:31):
And he's just watching. I mean, he's voyeuristically watching everyone from afar. Come on. It's perfect.
It's actually for Perp. It's genius. Genius. Genius. Genius. I mean, you get a Pattinson.
And of course, hello, Hollywood. Oh, Brandon's got Hollywood on the line. Mr. Hollywood. Hey.
Oh, hey, Brandon. How you doing? I hear you got that new, that new movie I've been looking for.

(06:56):
You're telling me that Hollywood has no ideas. Well, let's take this old one that we haven't
done in, I don't know, five years or so. People's attention spans are so short these days. They
won't even know. Well, we're here. When Phantom comes back, I'm sure it will. We'll be on the case.

(07:18):
Absolutely. And in Cara, I want to hear because I know that you've seen this movie before,
but it's been a minute. What's what's both of your, your history with this movie and
what do you remember? What did you feel going into it this time and coming out? I guess we'll get to that.

(07:44):
Yeah, I watched it when I was probably in high school or something like that. I whatever.
You would be 16, like 16 or 15, right? I just did at Cara. We would have been 14.
Okay. Yeah. So what now? Was that junior high high school at Isolano? High school, freshman.
High school. Okay. Yeah. Eighth ninth grade. 14 to 15. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember enjoying it a lot

(08:10):
at the time. And I like love the soundtrack. I would listen to the soundtrack all the time. And
yeah, it was just a fun one. I think because as we were saying before, it was like from a feminine
perspective of like, we got to get this like guy who's like, throwing us over, you know? So it's
kind of fun. Yeah. And then rewatching it again. I mean, obviously, there's a lot of like problematic

(08:34):
things, but overall, I had a good time. It was fun. I thought it was going to be more cringy.
Like same. I was, I was going into being like expecting to feel embarrassed and just like
wanting to turn it off. But it was, it was kind of a fun ride. I don't know if I'd watch it again,
but it was fun. Yeah. I agree. I thought it was going to go more overboard with some of the outdated

(09:01):
aspects. And there's definitely that there, but there's so many of them. There's plenty.
There's plenty, but it doesn't hold back from the enjoyment of the movie as much as Karah is
saying. And like, it's not like, it doesn't obviously like hold up like it came out yesterday
or something, but overall it's, it's just a bonkers ass movie. Yeah. That regardless of time period.

(09:26):
Like it's not a good movie. No. But I didn't hate it. And I was enjoying it. Like, I guess also
James and I were watching it together. So it was fun to like laugh at it together. And maybe that's
why it was a little more fun in that sense. Yeah. Just like good. Like, uh, like, I don't know,

(09:49):
it's so 2006. It's so 2006. And knowing that I was like early teenager when I watched this,
and I thought that this was like such a good movie, you know, like, we're so young and it is so,
it's a young fun movie. Yeah. Is weird watching something through the lens of like yourself

(10:10):
as a 14 year old again for the first time. Um, very, very long time. So there's a lot of things
I'm just like, Oh, that's not great. Especially when they, when they were like, yeah. And they
were like, I watched this as a 14 year old, like this is not okay. It was on board and just like,
yeah, this makes sense. Yeah. This is totally what high schoolers are doing and acting like.

(10:33):
Comforting to know that there's no way I watched this movie and was like, Oh, this is inspirational.
You know, like it was still fun when I was young. So it's problematic as it is.
You know, it was just fun. It's fun. It's a fun movie.
Yeah. It's a revenge movie. I get it gets the idea across in a, in a, in a bonkers way. But I

(10:54):
think the things that date it as well are like the references to other movies that are within
this movie. Like nothing dates something more than it referencing something outside of the
movie itself is just dating it for sure. And that goes to all the, I saw a lot of bring it on stuff
and they actually say like, bring it on to Heather's and I know, I know Kara, you were,

(11:19):
we were trying to make a list of some of the other ones that 10 things I had hate about you.
Yeah. I mean, the Badgley was Heath Ledger vibes for sure. And then he was, he was singing,
I want you to want me, which is like a song that's in 10 things I hate about you. So
they definitely were referencing that for sure. And then breakfast club, I mean, they're all in
detention and everything. And yeah, to, I would argue in a way that's not that successful because

(11:45):
it's new horns in that reference because the fact that these high schoolers are into cheap
trick and the way that they are was so like, huh, like cheap trick is the song you're bonding over
right now. Like, what are we talking about here? That's like your parents' music. And it's Elvis

(12:05):
Costello. Elvis Costello. Like, and oh my God, let's just say the, the, I have, there's so many
lines that I wrote down, but in regards to Elvis Costello, the ugly brother, which let's be real.
And I'm joking about you in Texas, like, he's a good looking guy. Like, what do you do? Like,
the way that they present him is like, he's just this like meek, not good looking guy. And you're

(12:32):
like, no, he's pretty confident. Like he has like fun banter, like that whole lab partner stuff was
great that he makes jokes about it. And then he's got his own thing going on. And again, he's not a
bad looking guy. So again, that's one of these tropes in these movies that I'm like, immediately
when he's presented, I'm like, Oh, this is the like ducky character, right? This is the, um,

(12:55):
but they even give that treatment to Britney Snow almost of making her seem like the odd,
odd girl that are like, you know, ugly duckling or something. And then she, they got a straight in
her hair. And then all of a sudden she goes, she's so high now that she's got to be, it's all about
status. It seems like in this high school, more than anything. I mean, the movie out the gate is
like, she's the invisible loser, ugly loser with a hot mom. And that's why anyone likes it.

(13:22):
Can we unpack that? That's like the first scene. Just like, oh, okay. She's ugly. I got it. Understood.
Like God, a whole narration too. I just got to say that off the gate too. Anytime there's
narration in this movie, it provides fucking nothing. Nothing. Like anytime she's saying
something, it's all stuff you're already seeing on the fucking TV. So it's like,

(13:43):
yeah, it might as well just like be visual aids or like audio descript, you know, for a blind person.
Basically what's happening like this is what we're seeing on the screen right now. It's like,
oh, I got it. No, I see. Right. But it's just, it's again, it's feed. It's presenting a trope
like it's the movies very smart and funny and witty that way. And so many of these coming of age

(14:06):
movies do start with some type of narration where it's you're getting the like where the
where the main character is at emotionally and how we got a cat.
But you're right. Like it's again, it's another trope presented that it's on successful at because

(14:27):
it more often than not provides nothing. And then also the way she says it is kind of like
like weirdly like slow or like lethargic and it's sleepy a little bit. But okay, I really need us to
spend some time on Jenna McCarthy and the mother daughter relationship in this because off the rip
blew my mind that we are to understand that anytime Jenny McCarthy has a relationship and

(14:54):
breaks up with her boyfriend, they move towns. Crazy. That's an insane move that
she has seemingly been to like 14 different schools or whatever, because her mom has to
leave the town every time she ends a relationship. And so so off. Yeah, again, I'm in the headspace

(15:16):
of like, oh, so the mom's a monster. Like the mom is like a such an egotistical selfish monster
where she is uprooting her child. Like, I don't know, it's maybe every three months.
And she's got to deal with that. And that's like her blight in life is just being this
little like a, yeah, luggage that the mom has as she goes through all these like

(15:40):
twists and romantic relationships and whatnot. And it's just all me. All of that like at the end
when when she is almost confronted, which any McCarthy says to her is who I'm dating
is none of your business to her daughter to her daughter. Yeah, who's in high school and says
like, who won't that is none of your business. And this is your daughter who's a minor in high

(16:02):
school. And you think that who you bring into your household? I don't know. Is none of her business
skips. Yeah. That's a lot to like just shove in your daughter's face. Like, you know what,
I'm going to bring whoever the hell I want home and you got to deal with it. And we're going to
move if, you know, I'm not with them anymore. I miss that detail that they move at every town.

(16:24):
So that's why they moved into this town is because she got done with the magicians.
And then now she's gonna date like a pilot or whatever, which makes sense.
And that's why she's kind of like keeps herself, you know, right. But to add to that, like,
it's funny that you mentioned that because I actually kind of like lived like that too,

(16:45):
except that my mom didn't date around. But I've been to like 12 different schools. So like,
I totally understand that feeling of like, I didn't think my mom was like evil, but like,
I've definitely moved around. So it is a real thing. Like, I think it is definitely like, like,
like, like relatable or like, like a real life thing. And I, my, or my mom didn't move around

(17:09):
because of like who she dated, but just like, just because she got bored of like living in this
apartment and was ready to go to a different apartment. And so yeah, I totally understand
that feeling. Yeah, I mean, that's amazing that you connected the movie on that level. And I,
and it's not like I don't, I've seen this and I know people where they are a lot of,

(17:30):
usually it's like military families, for example. Yeah, yeah, they move around a lot. But that's like,
you're moving for a job. Yeah. So leaving and uprooting them every time a relationship ends.
I'm like, obviously the movie never tells us what the mom does for work. Yeah. Because what could

(17:51):
she do where she's able to just be like, you know what, later and then go live in the house that
they live in. Yeah, that's a family. I'm like, how are you finding this house that you live in?
Like if you're always moving, like how do you find these houses? That's the thing is like,
well, you know, back in, yeah, not too long ago, people could do that. They could afford houses.

(18:12):
That is true. I'm like, what is this? What is this dealio? Such a nice house, such a nice street,
like, area, you know, the school seemed nice and all of that. But I just, it just needed to like
disenfranchise her somehow though. And I thought that was almost like a cheap way to do it. And
also it's not a great not a great follow through. Sorry to interrupt, but like, yeah, it's like,

(18:33):
it's not it needed to victimize her somehow. So we felt bad for her. So she had some something to
climb out of. But the problem with that is like, it never really resolved that with her mom in a
strong enough way. It barely did at the end. And it's all that she really did was like, you know
what, I'm not going to see the pilot tonight. It was essentially all I remember was like, you know,

(18:55):
he's not going to come over. And they put her in braids.
New her new lease on live new hair. Pretty much the new every act of the movies, the new
signifier of a new act of the movie is the different hair. Yeah, braids and shoes folding laundry.

(19:16):
Man, I know I tend to do this with movies when something so ridiculous is presented.
Because in my mind, this is like a really ridiculous scenario. And I could just imagine
Britney Snow being like almost like PTSD, where she's like the health of their her mom's relationship
is like a factor in whether or not she gets to stay around, you know, in this place. And like,

(19:40):
I could imagine Britney Snow being like so like either constantly intervening in her mom's relationship.
So it never gets going or being like, I don't know,
trying to keep the guy around as well. And that's a different movie. And I don't want to go down

(20:03):
too much of that rabbit hole because again, this movie could not give a shit less about that. All
it's doing is saying like, she's a new girl in a new town. And she's self conscious because she
doesn't really have friends and you know, so on and so forth. But I mean, I guess they did say
that like her mom dating around also was like, I don't know what it's like to date like what a

(20:23):
healthy relationship is. I think that was the example they were trying to write. I mean,
they didn't deep dive into that. But like that was the background of it all. Right.
Yeah, not and aggressively not at all. Like, we'll get to the ending of this movie. The last
15 minutes of this movie fucking blew my mind because there it was so wild. What happened

(20:48):
where like where resolutions happen and how much gets wrapped up. And then also just like a lot of
this like, you know, kind of sitcom me, you know, and everybody, you know, the
lesson is at the dance of like everyone trying to figure out like how to give the moral of the
story to the auditorium of like, well, I guess I learned this and people just throwing vegetables.

(21:12):
Why do you have vegetables at a party? They're throwing cake. They had a food.
Right. Oh my god. That part. Yeah. This is Christ. Very truly water. And guys, let's
let's make sure not to undersell essentially the birthday bash of the century that it was

(21:34):
described as being I have it right here. They described the party as being what is it? It is
a combination of John's birthday is like homecoming combined with prom combined with the MTV Music
Awards. I mean, was that not what it looks like, Brandon? You mean a empty hanger where

(22:04):
there's there's so much about this movie that drives me fucking nuts because like we've all seen
high school movies where the party scene, especially growing up, right? Like I don't I'm sure
everybody can sympathize along with me of like, especially like at this age where you're just
starting high school or about to get into it. Like movies that had high school parties.

(22:28):
You were like, oh, cool. Wow. This is this is what it's going to be like and whatnot.
And a fair amount of movies are successful at taking you through the party and being like,
oh, here's this group of people. And then there's this group. And then there's a cool song playing.
And then you just get this vibe of like, oh, yeah, high school parties are so cool. This party on the

(22:49):
other hand looked lame as shit. Which is so funny because just a few minutes prior, all the boys in
the locker room were talking about where they're going to go clubbing to pick up chicks. These boys
know they're going to go out on front street or whatever they called it, wherever that is.
And I was like, and I'm not sure about that party.

(23:14):
And just there were no ride. There were which again, which is so out of place.
Oh, absolutely. Especially to because he is sensibly in love with her to the point of like,
when the video gets presented to watch it, he calls her up to be like, stand next to me so that we

(23:38):
can enjoy this together. So that's where he is. In the case, you know, the strippers in the case.
He's like, yes, strippers. But you know what, the way that the ending the ending presents it is like,
well, it kind of makes sense because I mean, spoiler alert, he doesn't really learn shit.
No, he doesn't. First telling the truth, like he just like, stop it. That was so cringe.

(24:09):
It's like in voiceover. And he's like, and he learned a lesson too. And then it just shows him
and he's like, I'm dating both of you. And then just walks down the high school hall and you're
like, he gets he gets to have his cake, eat it too, and also have the strippers that come out of it.
Exactly. Right. And then he's he wins 2006.

(24:32):
2006 guys can get away with whatever.
The movie is called John Tucker must die. And first of all, they never even suggest a way to
kill him. No, that's not even floated. And also he's thriving at the end. So I like
thing through the whole. I like the idea of and this and there was a lot of this that reminded

(24:54):
me of mean girls, even though mean girls was after and they do a much better job of hiding their
influences. But oh, shit, what was I about to say? I lost my point. Never mind. Forget it.
I'm sorry. Was it some he really? But the fact that the climax of the storyline is a food fight

(25:15):
is like. Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I was thinking of the compare. I was comparing Regina George to
John Tucker, because I like that portion of them trying to sabotage Regina the whole like that
at that at that time and her popularity and clout having so much weight to it that anything that she

(25:36):
anyone else would do that would be embarrassing and anyone else would make fun of.
People just look that as like a new trend and a new thing to latch on to. And a part of that is
that is pretty funny. But then like there's also a part of you that wants the satisfaction of seeing
this guy meet the revenge that the that they're trying to place on him. And it never really

(25:57):
fully gets there. And I think that is kind of a problem because. He's not a nice enough cool guy
to like be happy with how like he he ends up like he gets put at the end. I feel like he's done
enough bad shit to our main characters that you know he should pay the price a little bit. But

(26:18):
I like the idea that he maybe gets a little bit more understanding but barely.
It's a cop out. No, it's a straight cop out. And yeah, I will say the things that they did to him.
I think we're pretty messed up. Like their plan and their strategies for like making him miserable.

(26:40):
Like they're pretty humiliating things. And the fact that he's still like doesn't care. I'm like,
I don't know. He's pretty hard headed. He's pretty confident. He has good. Very confident.
Flip the script on hepatitis. It was pretty amazing. Yeah. Oh yeah. General Herbie.

(27:02):
I could not believe that that was their first plan of attack. One trick him into doing a naked
photo shoot in the woods exposed. Take out an ad. Take out an ad at the local movie theater.
And then use those photos as like to make him the face of General Herbie's. That is devastating.

(27:26):
These girls do worse than what John Tucker did. Yeah. All he did was like not want to be their
boyfriend. Yeah. So I think that's why like the ending kind of like resolved softly because like
what Britney Snow did was pretty much what she like she was lying to him the whole time too.
So like I mean like. Sort of kind of though. Right. Like she was falling in love with him.

(27:50):
She also really didn't change and become that different, which cracked me up because there
were so many times. She was just trying to sabotage his life. Like she was trying to destroy him.
Not. She wasn't the other girls were. She is like a surrogate and a proxy for their ire and
their frustration with John. And like it. OK. So it cracked me up so much because I like literally

(28:16):
the movie doesn't give you it and I didn't see it at all of her transforming into this new popular
person. And then there's the scene. Yeah. Then there's the scene on the beach. And then he's like
I'm with the prettiest girl in school. And I'm like when did it like most popular girl.
When did this happen? Like what are you being a cheerleader. That was the only thing that

(28:38):
changed. Like they just put her on the cheerleader team. That's the only thing that changed and
then that made him notice her. That's right. And that's right in here.
That's what's so funny about that beach scene is all those people are coming up to her and being
like hey I know you from student council. Hey I know you from gym class. Hey I know you from.
And he's like wow you must be so popular. And she's like no I just lived here for a few weeks and

(28:59):
you never noticed me. I've been your waiter so many times. So many times. I've helped you in
so many your dates. You made an outrage about the meat here. And I just bring that up to you.
I have to mention one of my one of the things that was really funny to me was the other waitress
that she worked with that. Butterfingers. Yeah. That was like well how would you like how would

(29:23):
you know like as she starts describing all the you know all the other girls he's dated and
everything. And she's like well how would you know all of that. And she just starts like making
this sad crying face and just walks off and it's like very very funny visual humor from physical
humor. By the way can I just say I love when like silly movies like this or any movies just make a
random secondary character to tell you exactly what's been going on. Just had like two lines

(29:48):
and she just lists the entire plot. And then you're like I'm like oh thank you like cool I'm on
board I'm all caught up. It makes me think of in like not another teen movie where they essentially
like have a character who mentions like that's their purpose as they're like yeah you know I'm
like exposition person. I just stand in the background and then tell you what's going on in

(30:12):
the plot and whatever and it's it is really funny but I think it's everyone on the same page.
Well it was even funnier to me in the in the scene where we see John Tucker dating women
and like a bunch of different women and whatnot is that one girl who speaks French writes a
children's book and then like a couple other things and I was like wow what a you know what a

(30:33):
tryhard like in high school she's like and I love to the button wasn't I texted you guys about this
is like and the button was like so she's like beautiful smart does all these things and she's
writing a children's book and I was like oh what? So random. That seemed like she just had some extra
time that she was able to do that. Where is she find the time? Yeah she must yeah she is just such a

(31:00):
hard worker. It's interesting when this movie just quickens the pace of like okay you get it like
it over explains certain other things that don't need it then all then all of a sudden when it
could spend a little bit more time getting on to the page where like they figure out about each
other sort of thing like the crossover from that to like them finding out that they're all

(31:24):
dating John Tucker happens and they're playing volleyball and like PE class and then the minute
they find out they all immediately start fucking sprawling like no no discussion at all just
immediately just start throwing volleyball and fucking brawling and going to town which uh
just it was like the nature of an hour and a half movie to me there were certain things

(31:47):
that are like things are underwritten and maybe you could have a little bit more developed but
it was just like we just got to get to it because this is an hour and a half fun teen comedy and
they're just going to start uh you know yelling and fighting and and everything which just makes
it funny when Brittany so it's like guys we gotta stop fighting each other we gotta fight him
all right all within the scene they're like we know each other are dating the same guy we hate

(32:10):
each other we're gonna fight and now we're gonna resolve all within one scene is like and now we're
on the team was like all done so fucking quick and then they're just like immediately in this
war room with all these screens set up it was so cool the visuals that they had I mean and at

(32:39):
one point she just writes on it it's like uh what is she saying uh what is she like
but they're trying to make oh they write out undatable which by the way is spelled wrong
it's undatable it says undatable because it was a new word then it was not a real but now it's

(33:00):
like more common that you spell it undate dh e oboe but it's no e undatable there's no data
there's a couple moments where there's the whole spelling thing and that's coming from the vegans
an idiot which i know vegans are slots vegans are slots the panheasers and they're dumb it was so

(33:25):
weird of like her head is vegan slut yeah is the her attributes well they can't have two smart girls
in the movie so and you can't be smart and slutty no they they lean into the stereotypes so fast
and hard the stereotypes are like in the first couple minutes all laid out which that's where

(33:49):
it's so interesting to me how there are some progressive and like it comes from a feminine
place like genuinely like i want to get to how the estrogen the wearing the man thong and like
him being on more of display than her yeah that's more about the female gaze a little bit

(34:10):
it's very much more about the female gaze and all and also too that it's well i would argue so it's
it's very pro woman where it's you know it's all women that are orchestrating the plot are driving
what their wants and desires are but then i weirdly feel like this movie doesn't pass the beckbeil test
i was just thinking that too because the whole movie is about them trying to get a guy in some way

(34:33):
yeah like every scene is about them talking about the closest is like is like the end when
britney snow is essentially like you guys either we try to get him or we try to date him every
either way it's about john is what she says that was like the closest where it's like trying to get
away from it like yeah and also the fact that kill him or not yeah they all like actually become

(34:57):
friends at the end i guess that is a little helpful but yeah it is so weird to me that there is zero
time spent on the girls and like more about them or them helping each other really like kind of get
over this none of that ever exists in this movie it really blew me away because i was kind of hoping

(35:19):
that the end of this movie would be a little bit more like emotional and more of like we don't need
him this we got this going on you know we got each other now so on and so forth but that never
happened either that or they a complete other way where they go like even more towards heathers and
they fucking kill him and they got a bunch of that he wanted and they got to deal with that i

(35:41):
got one of the two i thought it was gonna be a horror movie i mean the thing is it was 2006 like so on par this is so on par with like the
stereotypes of women at the time which is just so crazy to rewatch because the themes are the movie are
women are sluts if they have sex but then you're approved if you don't but then like men only want

(36:04):
you if you're a little bit of a slut but you can't be a slut enough that it threatens other women
because that's not okay and i think all in general it's more like the women are useless if they're
not wanted by a man that's like in every single situation is like this over over like the generalized
theme of the movie which is like so crazy and i mean car i'm sure you could speak to this of like

(36:28):
that was the standard that was yeah yeah that was just like standard like that's just like what we
are going to do is we're gonna be like we're gonna do what we're gonna do like we're gonna do what we're
gonna do and we're gonna do what we're gonna do and that's just like your your your bread to like

(36:49):
believe like i fully watched this movie when i was 14 and i was like duh yeah like all this makes
treat her or how they teach her how to treat him in order for him to be more
interested as well.
Yes.
Was a whole trip of like playing game like the whole.
Manipulate it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
With holding.
Not talking.

(37:09):
Yeah.
And I have to say that like younger Kara used to do that because that's what I
believed was like a way to like get guys was like be passive aggressive, be
passive with holding be all these things and that and then guys will be more
interested.
But that's what and if Andy means mean to you, it means he likes you.

(37:32):
I thought about that a lot with like the ugly brother.
That's what I'm calling him that like their first interaction.
There were air quotes by it by the way, everybody.
He's not nice to her.
He's like kind of a dick to her in their first like meet cute.
Like he's if you rewatching, so actually not very nice to her and she's like, oh,
my God.
He is.
He is.

(37:53):
He is.
With me.
He was actually such a dick to you.
Like he's like condescending and like very like just unfriendly.
Yeah.
And she's just like.
Oracles in her eyes.
Yeah.
Also admit to being an arsonist that he made his science partner.
Yeah.
So many red flags.

(38:15):
And also to like it really was funny to me that he's supposed to be the
smarter one arguably, right?
Like it's kind of built into that.
But he's not smart, especially in a early scene of them being lab
partners.
He doesn't know how to pour water into a beaker.

(38:36):
He's like, that's like.
It needs to go.
And then he spills it.
And he's like, oh, I'm on fire.
No, it's sodium chloride.
It's salt water.
And he's like, oh, oh.
He's an artsy guy.
He's an artsy guy.
He doesn't know science.
So funny that she's like perceived as being so nerdy and smart for

(38:59):
knowing those things.
Like just when you said pouring water into a thing.
She is such a nerd.
What a freak.
And then there's also like.
I was like, this movie needed like her to also have her own thing
going on.
Where is the.
Definitely.
You know, like in mean girls, like the math club, you know, that

(39:22):
it's a part of that movie where that's a place where she's genuinely
smart and it's unfortunate that society is forcing her to be done.
And that's what's so deep and interesting about this, especially
in relation to what Carl is talking about.
It's like, that's the thing is like it's.
That movie does well to promote like, no, you know what?
Like sure, it's nerdy, but who cares?
Like go do the thing that you're good at and fuck everybody else for

(39:46):
telling you otherwise.
You're definitely right.
Yes, literally nothing.
No, you're so.
Nothing.
All they had to do was lean a little bit more into the
science angle, dude.
Like that's all they had to do make make the brother a little bit
smarter and more scientifically acute and then have her that be
their bonding thing and have both of them feel a little nerdy together.
I don't know.

(40:07):
Like it was not that hard to to give them a little more.
That's such a good point though.
Yeah.
Like the fact that she really has nothing.
So she has to be a cheerleader.
Then there's no there's no sort of conflict for her at all.
And that's what felt so strange is like you just watch her going along
with it.
And then when her mother confronts her, it's like, she's just like,

(40:28):
well, I've got nothing else.
What else am I doing?
And that's like getting the tax.
She literally says that she's like, I got nothing else to do.
That's not a good thing for me.
My job was on the floor.
That's not a good reason for that.
Turn to the darkness.
But I do.
I like how obsessed they are kind of like, I shouldn't say like,

(40:50):
they are so over the top obsessed with getting back at John Tucker
when she's trying to date him and or like trying to feel that out
and all that stuff.
And like, I forget what the blondes character's name is,
but she goes to the point where she's just so in her control room
trying to figure it out.
And that makes it so there's nothing else going on for any of those

(41:14):
characters or anything else for them to do, which is to track from the
movie.
But then also it makes it extremely funny when they start going to
insane lengths to get him.
And the one the main one I'm thinking of the best example where I
Kara watched me probably just go into a fit of laughter because I
thought it was just so insanely ridiculous because it starts with

(41:36):
her and John going on a date on a fucking boat.
Okay, let's go back on this.
Let's go step by step.
Step by step.
They go on a fucking boat already.
I'm just like, how and why.
And they're just them on the boat.
I'm already just like asking so many questions and then it jumps into
like cuts to them like they're on a boat.

(41:57):
Oh, we can't see him because it's too far or whatever on a little
video device.
I love that she's got the little video device and everything.
Yeah, from Charper image and cut to jump cut to them on another fucking
little tiny fucking tiny boat just chasing them going after them.
And I just like I lost my mind.
It was just so funny to me that they were going to like that lengths to

(42:21):
try to chase after her just to monitor everything that was going on.
Got to the point where it was campy and funny.
I was already reeling getting even to that point because first off
they go on their legitimate date is how they described it or how
Brittany describes it.
And then the start of it is they go to the restaurant she worked at,
but he says that they're doing takeout weird moves.

(42:44):
Like they get really nicely dressed up and then go to the restaurant
and then he's like, actually we're getting takeout.
No, just kidding.
We're going to run out the door.
And then I mean, pretty nice surprise.
I would assume is you're like, oh my God, look at this very decked out
and very like there's like candleabra on the.
There's sales.

(43:05):
She doesn't even have a coat.
Like I'd be so annoyed if like you didn't give me the heads up that I'm
like I said not bring warm clothes like.
I'm not.
Absolutely.
Right. No.
I don't know how much that cost him because they mentioned at the very
beginning that like his family is loaded, but are they like high
school or taking a girl on a private charter boat dinner?

(43:30):
Loaded.
He goes out to dinner every week.
New different.
It has to be Maddie because the name of the fucking boat is called
fast break, which is a basketball term.
So I was just like my mind was.
Because they're so rich that John alone,
not the family boat necessarily,
just a boat for the basketball player of the family has a boat named

(43:55):
after a basketball term.
Right.
We never, we never see their parents.
We never really get a high school basketball money.
Yeah.
The only other sign of wealth is when he sensed her.
10 bouquets of long stem white roses.
I'd also be so annoyed.

(44:17):
Like if you sent that to me now to deal with all this $500,
like it's not romantic.
It's stressful and annoying and embarrassing.
So then you would sympathize with the teacher because man,
he was a ball buster about it.
The second it started happening,
that one teacher cropped up multiple times and he just was like,

(44:38):
such a fucking ball buster.
Like barely anything's happening.
And he's like, like yelling at them.
And sometimes it's like really aggressive where he's just, I don't know.
Yeah.
The adults in this movie were really weird to me because none of,
there was no outside of Jenna McCarthy.
There's no other sympathetic or kind of adult that's helping them.

(45:01):
And like being kind of a mentor, if you will, like that's what this
movie needs as well.
Like they need a Tina Fey in this movie where all the girls kind of,
you know,
they don't want to be seen with that teacher, but that teacher's like kind
of cool.
So there's a little bit of that going on,
but there's all of the teachers and coaches are at like very minimal.

(45:25):
And when they are in there,
they're just yelling at these children.
And like some of it's crazy where he gets a coach is very mean to him.
A pansy ass.
Yeah.
Okay.
The whole movie is like pretty homophobic.
Like there's a lot of homophobic elements in this movie.

(45:47):
There are a ton of dated shit where like the STD thing was off the
rep for me was a very dated thing because the way that people treat
John having an STD is like making fun of him.
I don't think in this day and age, I think we're actually for good,

(46:08):
have gotten past this like STDs aren't just like a punchline really.
It's like, Hey, are you like, are you okay?
Like, you know,
the whole way that that came about, like when they like tricked him
into taking nude photos and a thing and then put it on the movie
screen, I was like, that's like pretty revenge for me.
Like, that's like really not okay nowadays.

(46:33):
And then yeah, the most.
And all that.
Actually terrible.
And then the estrogen thing, they're like, they're drugging him.
Yeah.
And the effects of that are like, silly.
Let's talk about the effects of the way that they said, I was like,
this is so just like.
Massageness and misunderstood of taking estrogen a couple of times.

(46:56):
You immediately becomes passive aggressive is the first time.
You're immediately like in the height of PMS saying and the way
that that is portrayed is just like, he's a monster for chocolate.
He has to have it.
Everyone is bad at him.
Like his chest hurts.
Like he's crying.
He was a full breakdown.

(47:17):
And then he's like, I mean, some of that stuff is like pretty,
like kind of relatable, but no, it is.
But it's funny to say like, that is just such a huge laughing point
of the video.
Yeah.
He would take a little bit of estrogen.
That's what's going to be terrible things.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(47:39):
The problem with that is because I, it is funny.
Like when it's happening, it's funny.
I was laughing about it.
I couldn't fully get into it because again, I hate to keep bringing
up mean girls, but it's like when the mean girls does well to show
a passage of time when Regina starts eating those, the bars that
make her gain weight.
So, so it makes sense why she would.

(48:02):
In the time of the movie, it happens very quickly, but the movie does
well to show passage of time.
So you know that this didn't just happen overnight.
The way that this movie on being that competent, it made it seem like
he, he, it happened instantly.
He took a little bit of, he took some estrogen and then bang, he is.
Having a period.
Yeah.

(48:23):
He's having a period.
Like within minutes, it made it seem like they, I had to go, I went
back and watch it and it was like, it makes it seem like it's maybe
the next day, but it was like, it's like instantaneous.
Yeah.
Yeah.
In the height of female trouble.
But then what happens next with the thong kind of makes you
retroactively think back on that and just, I don't know, some of the

(48:44):
stupidest stuff in the movie makes me like have a better opinion
about the movie because all the shit with the thong and then all the
other guys wearing it and everything to had a certain humor to it.
And then they all line up to do the fucking basketball drills and
the thong was just like, that was, that was funny.
And they do a fucking front flip and dunk and everything like that.

(49:07):
That shit is so preposterous and far fetch that that's where the
movie starts to get me on its side a little bit more.
If it's been as more preposterous throughout or more heartfelt,
it unfortunately kind of rides the line, but there's, there's some
funny silly stuff to, you know,
So the pitch John gives to the guys to, you know, it's cool.

(49:31):
One of those flipping it on its head is he says that it's like
letting your best friend sleep in a silk hammock.
Uh huh.
I mean, the way he turns around all these situations, like I can't
help but be like respect.
Yeah, like I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Like I just, I liked him the whole movie.

(49:52):
I was like, sure.
If he's able to make it acceptable for everyone.
That's the part.
He's like ever actually insecure. He's so confident that he's
horrible situations that he's not even to go. I was like, I kind of like this guy.
Yeah. Like I think the hatred isn't been able to bring him down.
Yeah. The positivity conquers.
Like even when the other guy like, why are you acting like a girl?

(50:15):
Or like, why are you wearing girls underwear?
It's like he switches it around and is like, oh, this is actually not that bad.
And I don't know. Like that's where what you were saying, James,
like where the movie gets me is like, they're not like, they start making fun
of him for being too feminine or something. But then he like uses that as like
an empowerment thing. And that's when I'm like, okay, the movie's not that bad in that sense.

(50:39):
Like, and it is directed by a female director. So like, I don't know.
And then it starts to lose me again is where it, you know,
he becomes completely hypocritical.
And in the other instance where they try to goof on him is they get a little peak inside
the boys locker room and see how boys act when there's no one else around.

(51:02):
And you get to see in his words, not just Donald Trump's,
but in his words, a little bit of locker room talk in which they all just make a bunch of fart noises
and whip each other with towels and refer to women as an old wine that they're about to uncork.
And then you get that you get that all on tape.

(51:23):
You get that all on video and then he gets confronted with it.
And his excuse is that's just locker room talk.
Like that's just between me and the fellas. And that's a certain status quo that I got to live up to that.
I'm just peacocking for my fellow dudes, but I don't actually mean any of that.
And she's completely taken with that excuse and understands completely, which that that that part does not work.

(51:50):
That's where that's where it's like they're trying to make him this heartfelt person when and making him win that scenario.
I don't think works works as well.
But like, it's also it's it's not like she was great either.
Because in that same scene, she's exposed for having like, right, like ganged up with all of his other ex-girlfriends to trick him into falling up with her.

(52:14):
So he could break her heart.
I was like, that's what I mean, like, no one is good here. No one is good here.
And then the solution is that those guys in the front row are like, no, he's a star.
He like bang the harder girls in school and the girls are like, that's right.
And they throw cake at each other. Everyone is friends again.
Like that. Everyone is that ending is insane.

(52:38):
Oh, my God. OK. Speaking of the friend. So the friend that he like his best friend that he has in the movie, the big guy adds almost nothing to the movie.
And what was so confounding to me is that you have Scott here.
So why isn't he do they ever have a really like one scene together?

(53:00):
If you like, we've been told that he's his brother could have fooled me. Like they're never in a scene together. It never really seems like they go anywhere together.
And it just was so he asked about Bethany or sorry, Brittany Snow. That's like there's a there one scene. That's it. Yeah.
And I just don't understand why you wouldn't have Scott be the hang along to John, you know, maybe because typically in these movies, it would be Scott is envious of the notoriety that John gets.

(53:35):
So that's part of his character arc is he is learning to accept himself that he it's like it's not about being popular.
It's about like being who you are, you know, fundamentally. And that's a thing that that character would learn. But Scott never learns that at all. I mean, I guess he does.
But in two minutes at the very end of this movie, he goes, you know what, actually, let's you know, let's date. And a lot happens in the last two minutes.

(54:02):
Let's be lab lab partners. Yeah, let's be lab partners again. But I know that the storyline like Brittany Snow and John Tucker are like falling in love and you kind of start to like feel that but then she's also flirting with the brother and you can
I was like, team am I supposed to be on? I don't know.
I don't know anymore. Now I'm starting to realize that John Tucker is the main character of this movie.

(54:28):
He is. That's the whole movie is about him and no one else has as much going on as John Tucker does and there's never there's never like a point where like anyone does anything outside of John Tucker to really fucking matter.
I wonder what he what number he was on like on the call sheets when they were filming like if he was number one. Yeah, because that would.

(54:49):
Yeah, totally defeats the purpose of the movie. Yeah, so to me for that reason, it's supposed to be like, yeah, trying to take him down but all he does is like succeed. Yeah, that way.
And you kind of like him. Yeah, and like these women are just like, who do we take down next? You're just like so nobody learns any lessons.
And that guy is on the stage thing like they almost try to do a carry thing with the water and like an embarrassment and then like the food fight and like those four jabronis at the front are just kind of like supposed to be like the chorus the Greek chorus almost of like of like,

(55:25):
Okay, this is what I learned from the movie and there's going to be like, yeah, or they're going to be like no, no, represent us and then like it goes through five different fucking arcs arc completions in five seconds and I couldn't I couldn't actually keep track by the time they were all having a food fight I
thought I couldn't understand if it was happier angry fat food fight because we're all getting along until like 30 like five seconds before.

(55:54):
Before the birthday party scene, then everyone has a falling out and then everyone at the birthday party is unhappy with each other, and then they have a food fight and then everyone spends again.
That's usually what happens to you so it doesn't make sense.
It actually you know what it makes perfect sense.
I think that this movie just suffers like other movies similarly, where it's like we have to have this in this movie, and then you're retroactively trying to be like, okay, like, you know, how do we get from here.

(56:27):
You know, we want the climax to be a food fight.
How do we get there?
And we got this band. I forgot the band is someone in the oh yeah band in 2006 come on. What are we doing? Your DJs at this point.

(56:48):
That song sounded familiar some indie rock song and it was not the best one on the soundtrack the soundtrack is pretty great and dirty little secret is almost like the come it comes back at the end and like a nice little fun way and it was funny car and I watched
What was it a house bunny car?
Oh, that's a good movie.
The lead singer of all American rejects plays a part in the movie and he's pretty funny. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

(57:18):
He's a pen bad.
He's a pen bad.
He was like in a frat too. So he's like the cool nerdy guy.
Yeah.
That's breaking stereotypes. That's kind of cool.
In a sense.
Like he's not like the nerdy guy or the cool guy. He's like both.
Yeah.
Indie rock cool guy at the time. Yeah. Yeah.

(57:42):
It's got Emma Stone in it too. Right.
Correct.
She's like the she's like the oh are you saying is she in that. Yeah.
And then also Bruce Willis's daughter.
Yeah. Yeah.
But man, even though you see what you will about the scary movies. I mean, it's on a Faris is a

(58:04):
very, very funny. She's so funny. So funny. So funny. And it's almost like she's how's funny.
She's fucking hilarious in that movie. I'm like I never seen.
Yeah. You know, you can weirdly brush her off because you're like oh yeah the girl that's in all those really stupid spoof movies.

(58:26):
But that's what she's doing at. She was going at it because of her. Yeah.
You know, she's a little nilson level funny. She's my favorite.
Oh yeah. Oh my god. Oh yeah.
We did that. Psycho. Psycho in that movie. But I love her in that. So funny though.
Yeah. Which that movie needed that. Do we do that?

(58:50):
Yeah, we like her. We didn't like other stuff. We liked her. Yeah.
She's a lot. The toothpaste stuff I remember. But the stuff with her like Brian Reynolds little brother was weird and interesting.
But any other notes on this one, the outstanding stuff that we didn't mention because I feel like I had a couple little tasty edibles before I watched the movie.

(59:20):
I was like rolled on through and had a great time for the most part. And as far as an hour and a half is concerned, I can think of worse ways.
But I was like crying at that boat thing. That was escalated in such a funny, funny way that is like somehow the highlight of it.
Like schoolgirls getting a boat to chase a bigger boat with like the video camera equipment and stuff. I was like, what are we doing here?

(59:50):
It sounds like. It didn't really reference that this town they live on is on the edge of a giant lake. Like ever. I saw like it's in Seattle.
I think that they could. I think it's like in Washington. Yeah.
I guess they do have that little beach party. I guess that's it. But yeah. Yeah. No other reference to boats or canoeing or anything. The entire movie.

(01:00:16):
Right. But also to the reason that they're there is so stupid because like, why do you need this video footage? I know they just don't like, oh no, he's really pulling out the big guns.
We've never been on a boat. He's really trying. This really means something.
Yeah, because they hate him. But how dare he date somebody else? That's. And that's where they turn like, oh, well, actually, I would want to date him again.

(01:00:39):
And he should be doing these kind of things for me. Oh my gosh. And he like proposes and gives him for his watch. Oh, yeah.
Oh my God. That's how we know he loves you. He let you wear his giant watch. Don't ask me if you fucking watch.

(01:01:00):
If a guy gave you a watch like that watch, you would be like, oh, that's really sweet that you did this, but.
No, thanks. This is like. This is a gesture. It's a man's watch.
I'm sure that was a thing in high school, but it just seems so silly now.
Like that. Just give me the letterman's jacket. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:01:22):
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
No, I can make sense, Maddie. Like that does seem like a high school thing. Like, oh my God. Yeah. Like he gave me something of his.
I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I reinvented. I'm wearing his fruca necklace.
I can make it a watch. Make it a what? Like there's so many other things that people actually do in high school and.

(01:01:44):
I know. I don't like the jacket or hoodie or something.
Well, I guess he just had to watch on him at the time. Like that was the only he's not gonna take off his shirt.
Maybe.
Right. But I mean, that doesn't. Yeah, that makes worse.
It definitely wasn't premeditated. It was like, you know what? Let me just give you my watch.

(01:02:08):
I like that.
All the girls are like, oh, my God.
I like the contrast of how stupid it is to how heavy like they take it, how big a video it is for them.
Yeah.
Says everything about him and how they look at him, which I guess is successful because it's a stupid gesture, but.
It's coming from, oh, John Tucker did it. Oh, John Tucker's watch.

(01:02:34):
And then also to it's followed by like one of those stereotypical scenes where she's walking down the hallway and music's playing and she's just big, stupid watch.
And she's just like, everybody's looking at my watch. Everybody knows that I'm with them and you're like, there she goes.
There she goes.

(01:02:59):
It's like rewatching it. Like I was just back in that fortnight all the time. So like that's how you saw the world. That's how.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How like dramatic everything was. Yeah.
In high school, everything.
Or racing. Yeah. Like everything.
And then it's like, what life felt like in a weird way. It was such a good time capsule of feelings. Just be like that would have just been monumental slash devastating slash things we'd be so upset about.

(01:03:27):
And then the look of it, it looks like what it looked like when we were in high school, the closest thing it could approximate to.
And it's like, this is what our high school styles, purportedly kind of like we're trying to look like. The other funny part for me that I was cracking up at because I thought the, I don't know who was playing the vegan activists.

(01:03:49):
I think it was.
Very funny. And I liked when she got into the back to hide in the back of John Tucker's car or Land Rover. I liked his Land Rover. It was cool Land Rover.

(01:04:11):
Like transfer like the emotions that she goes through is first upset because she's like, who is who else has he been with to finding out? Oh, it's 100% hemp.
And then realizing, oh, this is mine. And then to like, I might as well take it.

(01:04:32):
There was like such a progress of emotions that was so funny that she never said anything. She just was like, angry.
I was surprised, accepting.
100% hemp fabric, the 100% hemp killed me. Like that sound so uncomfortable.
It's a bra. Yeah.
Aerotype.

(01:04:53):
We got in there with like, just for the joke and I'm just like, funny.
I wish she owned like her sexuality more. Like, I know like she did, but they all kind of made fun of her for being a slut. But I wish she kind of like owned it a little bit more because then it would have been like, yeah, you can do whatever you want.
Yeah.

(01:05:14):
Her job was to like to teach Britney Snow how to be, you know, like how to how to like make out which ended up being like the most male gaze part of the movie was her teaching her like how to kiss and then the, you know, young boy.
Yeah. And the young boy says, Holy Jamma llama.
Jamma llama is what he says. I because I have the subtitles on I was like, huh?

(01:05:38):
Holy Jamma.
Oh, 2006 slain. You know, Brandon, how we used to say that all the time.
See, that's what's so weird. And this is where I sometimes struggle with like, what is like being a feminist and like what is like massage and has taken all that stuff and it's it can sometimes be a blur line because I had that same experience with a girlfriend, like in junior high.

(01:06:04):
And, but like, they so it feels like normal. I don't know to me. It feels like a lot more.
But then to have the guy witness that that felt like the male gaze part of it. Right. Exactly. Do you know me?
Exactly. Yeah.
Without him walking in. Yeah. Or whatever.
Whatever fine however they played it, but that for sure made it.

(01:06:28):
Yeah, like I think girls make I mean, I don't want to say all girls do, but like it's more common for girls to make out with girls.
But then it's the male gaze part of it when like someone's like, you know, like, so I don't know. Like it was it didn't seem weird that she was teaching her how to make out.
She's never been out before.
I did it out completely. It could have just like, oh, John's coming back better hide. Like it didn't need the little kid being like, yeah.

(01:06:54):
Yeah, exactly.
So I don't know. That's where sometimes I'm like making guys dumb is kind of funny, though. I don't know. The locker room thing.
And you're just showing how like, how like, how dumb they are and how like something so simple could just like drop us to our knees and be like,
Like that angle could be funnier than. Yeah, I don't know.

(01:07:15):
And that's kind of how I feel about this movie is like there's some blurred lines where it's like it does feel like female empowerment and feministic.
But then like, also a lot of male gaze. So I don't know. I think the male gaze part is just that it was 2006. And that was just the norm back then, you know, like that was just what was the standard like Maddie was saying.

(01:07:37):
Those broad lines kind of help it because I think if it yeah, if it had been too much of the male centric sort of thing in a different sort of way where yeah, it was more national lampoon American pie and it only had like tinges of that it wasn't it wasn't
the main ball. The main point of it. And it was just, you know, John Tucker coming out on top was kind of goofy and almost spoke to just yeah, the, yeah, the privilege of this dumbass.

(01:08:04):
He's still dumb. He hasn't changed, but he's still just gotten better and progress and everything.
And so, you know, it's just like, yeah, I don't know the more like this is the society of high school or like, you know, maybe you're no matter what you do, you know, so you might as well not try to like live off hate and bring someone down.
And this movie doesn't do go this way at all. It tries to be with the moral statement at the end, you know, like maybe but like that's it's I like that that side of it if it had gone there a little bit more and and I'm glad for movies like mean girls that

(01:08:37):
are able to be so heartfelt and funny at the same time and then yeah movies like heathers where it's able to be so fucked up and really goes the the whole mile the other direction.
The other one we watched recently brand and I forget the name of it was really kind of like a heathers thing to where it just escalates to this whole whole other level.

(01:09:02):
And I have to alter remember it has has the person from like Shiva baby and bodies bodies bodies. Oh, oh yeah. Bottoms bottoms. Excellent movie and yeah more.
So more so the Heather and Heather kind of Heather's kind of direction where it goes like whoa they're really going this far with it wow.
Yeah, like go bigger home yeah this movie is like it's all it's like it feels like it's almost there it's like yeah it's like out like the longing for female camaraderie it's revealing that like women.

(01:09:32):
It's beneficial and it's like, you know, we take men down by each other but then it just kind of misses the point. Yeah, because I do like the right trajectory. It just like totally fails. Yeah, because I do like how you're saying like the woman gossiping

(01:09:53):
and the revenge stuff like that's fun like why not like that's fun you know and being high school sure women talk about that stuff too but yeah it just it just yeah like they could have helped each other and support each other but I think down to the very end they
still wanted to be enemies with each other they were still competing.

(01:10:14):
It's got it. You're not about the downfall of John Tucker it's about yeah just it's not you're not going to get through to this right this Greek God of a man.
And I'm curious and then I guess it brings us to you know there is talks of a sequel and number a number two on its way so maybe it'll be a horror or yeah and he guesses on what that like what is an what is an older

(01:10:42):
John Tucker like is he settled down is he is it about his kids is it is it like he's figured everything out in life and it's perfect or is it he's got issues and yeah I wonder does he really die this time.
That would be.

(01:11:13):
Okay gosh.
I also thought the blonde in this movie was Catherine Heigl for the first like 20 minutes movie I didn't realize I see that I could see the yeah I could totally see that.

(01:11:44):
Yeah I would like to see other like female revenge movies.
That's fine.
Yeah.
I'll deal with this. This is one kind of miss the mark for me and just didn't didn't land. They made it better in a way.
They didn't kill the guy.
I kind of think that's the angle I would have like yeah he must die and then not one of them suggested a way to kill it.
It could have should have escalated a little closer to that line when the movie is titled John Tucker must fucking die like it doesn't even.

(01:12:10):
Yeah, doesn't even he's not at risk at all.
Right like shouldn't the ending of this movie been where he dies but then it's revealed like it was like a ski like he doesn't actually die right.
But they think they actually did.
Something like that right like yeah.
Yeah.

(01:12:32):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yes.
This viewer says yes.
You almost seems like the Ferris Bueller of the school except like he's cheating on his girlfriend.
Because everyone treats him like Ferris Bueller.
Oh, he's easily the coolest guy. Yeah, I mean, yeah, some notes I took. Yeah, like I said obscene amount of notes some quotes to riddle off is just right from the get go is john Tucker let's face it.

(01:13:04):
He's the man.
Just okay.
And then he's somewhere between an Abercrombie model and a great God.
Also batch.
Yeah, right. I mean, yes.
I'm not a model.
Just take more than that.

(01:13:25):
I texted you guys this but the line that when they're all sitting there at the computer or whatever and his face is up on the screen is we need to define john and they say he's a statue wrapped in a peening in a frame made of muscles.
If I had a nickel.
That's that's the that's the type of stuff we're getting from this movie is these just bangers also not to nitpick but there's the scene where all the girls are eating chocolate stuff.

(01:13:53):
And the vegan girl looks like she's eating chocolate just saying I had that in the back of my mind as well and she was.
Yeah, I was like, is there any milk chocolate in there. Maybe she's just going for the dark chocolate.
Maybe it's just the dark chocolate.
I had thought I took that in the back of my mind.
I just clocked what they had with them in that scene because it's so much diet coke in this movie get out of here.

(01:14:17):
Absolutely but there's so much diet coke.
In that scene.
They have just their housing a jar of peanut butter.
They have to chocolate syrup containers a bunch of diet diet coke and then yeah just an open can of chocolate frosting and that's just kind of the chocolate charcuterie board that they're rocking with.

(01:14:38):
Speaking of strange food items how about the guy at the mascot had eating popcorn out of it.
His buddy eating popcorn out of the mascot head.
What the fuck was that about?
There's a lot of popcorn.
It's probably all very stinky and like wet and not crispy anymore and just look.

(01:14:59):
This is so gross. Can I say what I think the most fucked up part of the movie or one of them is when they do the add the movie theater for him having genital herpes and then he turns that into getting like most responsible teenager award.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
We have a whole panel of teenagers sitting out there that have like open out.

(01:15:22):
Yeah, have.
And then they're like trying to hug him and he's like pushing them off.
I was like this is so bad.
That was very good.
That was so bad.
I was like this whole start to finish this little storyline is just pretty messed up.
Oh yeah. And for me the so after the estrogen, then it gets turned around immediately where beautiful women just come up to him because now he's emotional so now it's attractive because he's so emotional.

(01:15:58):
One of them says that that call me on my peer counseling hotline.
She's like a bear.
For other high schoolers.
Yeah, whoa, what I didn't.
Is that a thing.
Yeah, I was kind of reeling on that.

(01:16:20):
Whoa, was that where people doing that.
I just did at times it seems kind of weird like high schoolers giving other high schoolers advice.
So messed up.
You know, I guess I'm sure it's good to talk to somebody your age but yeah, I didn't didn't know that that was the thing about peer counseling hotlines that people.
And it's just okay so Scott describes Brittany Snow's character as she's into old school Elvis Costello. She listens to obscure podcasts.

(01:16:49):
And then she reads David Edgers, you know, she's deep man.
Podcast in 2006 though I mean that was kind of surprising.
Yeah, I'm listening to like fucking Super Ego or something.
No, right. She's not even having Kevin Spock has.
Serial Serial is probably past that.

(01:17:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Can I say one more thing about the boat thing I have on my notes. I'm trying to remember at what time it said but someone someone says not on the high seas.
I think that's the blonde girl.

(01:17:35):
Can't fight on the not on the high seas.
The ocean or the on the lake.
And then she also head taps that Brittany Snow at one point like she's freaking out instead of slapping her she just like taps her like.
There's a lot of like open hand slapping in this movie and yeah just like pushing.

(01:17:59):
I didn't notice wow.
I'm gonna have to watch again.
The volleyball scene where they're just throwing volleyball is full speed.
That is true.
Progresses into them just open hand like slapping each other on the face.
Wait, yeah, too much women fighting in a movie about them trying to kill a man.
Also to the reason that the whole volleyball thing happened is because the teacher immediately got acute angina.

(01:18:26):
They just say that I don't know what the fuck that man.
I don't know.
Remember how she's like walking to the medical thing.
Acute angina which just seems like okay that she is that way the volleyball classes by all the P.E. classes had to be together on medical leave for giving gender confirmation surgery.

(01:18:50):
It seemed like she had a heart attack because it was a situation where like Brittany Snow is passing the teacher in the hallway and then all of a sudden she just starts to collapse.
And then she died.
And then they're like she came down with acute angina.
And then that's why they have to have the other teacher be the you know do the P.E. class and then she's like okay now you guys need to get together and we're gonna play volleyball and all that shit.

(01:19:21):
But yeah acute angina was officially John Tucker's demise because if he had not given that teacher a heart attack with his good books.
That's right.
None of his girlfriends would have met each other.
Cross-pollinated.
So that really.
Thank God we're in a movie.
Yeah.
I know.
I like that.

(01:19:42):
Oh this is how he keeps them separate.
Like I forget the term that they use.
Oh yeah.
But like he goes to different clicks.
Okay.
Yeah that's what the waitress tells us.
Yes.
The crying waitress tells us that she dates girls from different clicks.
And then during basketball season he says his dad doesn't allow him to have girlfriends.
That's why he gets.
And I'm like.

(01:20:03):
I don't know.
I'm sorry but it is.
It's manipulative.
But like it kind of works.
It's bad.
It's kind of like what her mom's doing.
He's a smart guy.
Her mom and him have a lot in common.
So she's like.

(01:20:27):
Maybe she needs to take a page out of his book and just spread to different.
Like dates someone from out of town.
Not from someone from the town that she's.
No more skips.
The pilot might be the move.
Maybe get closer to that pilot.
She was.
She was banging.
Yeah.
That might be the move.
He was a tall guy.
Tall drink of water.
Tall drink of water.

(01:20:48):
Brandon do you like a man in uniform?
I'm like.
I'm like.
Jenny McCarthy.
He can buy me expensive.
I want to watch.
I want to travel.
It would actually fit my wrist.
So they say that all about the clicks and this whole thing that he has.
But then it's completely undercut because then it shows him walking into the

(01:21:09):
school and he's just playing grab ass all the way down the hallway.
Yeah.
So explicit.
So explicit.
So explicit.
So explicit.
So explicit.
So explicit.
So explicit in just licking girls fingers.
Weling alley.
There's zero way.
You're telling me that no other women saw this going down before,

(01:21:33):
which is impossible because if they're dating,
then the second he shows up there clocking him right?
You're like,
if you're with somebody you're like, oh,
my significant other is here.
But he's like,
like going to grab her ass, going to go over here, just hug her,
talk to her in a little smooch.
And then he just keeps moving through.
And I'm like, OK, well, this just, I mean, I'm sorry to, again,

(01:21:54):
pick a movie that doesn't mean to make sense.
But that kind of stuff is just so wacky.
It's like a music video that part.
Like that's where it's just like we're going to play play a song and have them
yeah, go through and show them what a play area is all in one scene.
Well, the song plays.
But yeah, it's like they were like five feet away and just like, hey, wait a second.
You just I took from that how important it gossip is.

(01:22:17):
Like, yeah, I believe in this.
Like he was benefiting so much from women not talking to each other.
And I think gossip is amazing.
It's amazing. That's how women that's how women used to talk or like find out about things.
Relief for women like like watching this movie.
I was like, this is why gossip is so important because women can figure things out so fast
because for women, like information is currency.

(01:22:39):
It's just so important.
It's some it's how we communicate to yeah.
People are like safe in a way.
But yeah, also, it's just I love it.
Just like locker room talk in my right brain.
Yeah.
What?
I think it's just.
Man, I'm sorry.

(01:23:01):
Time to.
Meanwhile, women are like building webs and creating.
War rooms with computers.
We're just like.
Oh, yeah, we're doing the arm that's working.
That was so close.
Oh, yeah.
Eating popcorn out of.
It's just like a party day.

(01:23:22):
Well, maybe we should move on to some reviews here.
Does anybody want to want to take a break or anything?
We we get to move on.
I want to take a quick bathroom break.
That's cool.
OK, we take a little little break and we'll be right back.
All right, we are back.
Let's check out some reviews from critics and audiences.

(01:23:46):
We'll start with the critics side.
They gave it a 28 percent on rotten tomatoes.
Some of the top critics here.
Let's check it out from Anna Smith from Time Out says,
not the worst of its kind, but few over the age of 14.
We'll find it worth forking out for.
Working out forking out Mula.

(01:24:07):
It's a lot of doing stuff like that.
14, if you're 14, I guess, like, are you going to spend the money
to go see it in the movie theaters?
I guess is what they're saying.
Claudia Pueg USA.
Today, John Tucker must die is trying to be mean girls
with a more pointed purpose, but it's less fun than it sounds.
Two out of four.
James Burr are Dennelli real views.

(01:24:31):
One and a half out of four says the jokes are obvious and unfunny.
The storyline goes nowhere.
That's interesting or unexpected.
And the only chemistry happens in a science lab.
Fairly true.
I'm in a body bag from Peter Travers.
He gave it a zero out of four and said it's a timid,

(01:24:52):
screamingly unfunny ripoff of Heather's.
Peter Travers really defending Heather's.
And then last, Jeanette Katzolas from New York Times.
Two out of five, a dispiriting revenge fantasy engineered by three
waspish Barbies against one disposable Ken.

(01:25:14):
Oh, I just agree with that from New York Times.
She.
Let's move to audience reviews.
Use 69% just to remind you on the audience side.
Let's let's see what they have to say.
Here's a five star review from Amira was was.

(01:25:40):
Just a classic early 2000s cliche, but amazing in every way.
It for sure kept my interest, but I did first watch it when I was like 10.
So I have a love in my heart for this movie.
I'm rewatching it currently as an adult and it's still an easy, easy rewatch.
It's funny and interesting and gives me all the right vibes watching it.
If you haven't seen it, you have to go watch it right now.

(01:26:00):
What are you waiting for?
Call the action.
You got to love that review.
Oh, yeah.
Call the action at the end.
Trevor Renshaw gave it a five.
Such a good movie seen at many times.
It's funny, dramatic and a classic teen movie filled with shenanigans
and different stereotypes.
This movie is a cliche about high school dating and life in general, a good

(01:26:24):
movie to watch for a sleepover if you're in the mood for juicy gossip and fun pranks.
This is a fun sleepover movie, right?
Yeah, I do.
That was the vibe.
That's such a good way to describe it.
That should be a genre because you want to laugh with it,
laugh about it with people and like poke fun at it too.
Yeah.

(01:26:44):
And also not pay attention to our.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like you can zone out if you need to.
You can zone out and talk to your friends at the sleepover.
And you know exactly what's happening.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It really sticks to the core point of it, of like they're just going after John Tucker,
maybe not the diet part, but they're going after him.
The whole focus is on him.

(01:27:05):
We'll do maybe one or two more.
From Pam Renterra, five stars.
The soundtrack, a perfect time capsule.
Penn Badgley playing the long game to get the girl.
Chef's kiss.
This cast, absolutely 10 out of 10 casting.
A classic that immediately takes me back to high school.

(01:27:26):
Oh yeah.
From Summer Coupu, five stars.
I love this movie.
SM.
So much.
All the characters were perfect.
John Tucker is fine.
NGL ID Gaff.
Oh, God.
Wow.
Okay.
I want to experience what Kate and John had.

(01:27:47):
And I love the little trio with Heather, Beth and Carrie.
And Penn was such a cutie.
I want to watch a movie with her.
Yeah, there's some.
These are whoever that person is.
I just stepped into Letterbox reviews and these are so fun.
There's a lot more fun and cool.
Come from from good people.

(01:28:08):
It seems like I'll do these last two are kind of fun.
From Stoltz, Molly Stutz, five stars.
Most girl boss movie ever.
All men should die.
From Nyla, five stars.
Every man gets what he deserves.
The person in the watch screen.

(01:28:28):
No, he didn't.
No, he didn't.
That's not what happened.
That's not what happened.
That's just.
Well, unless she thinks she deserves to be like, I don't know.
With two girls that are okay with him dating.
He turns to ethical nominogamy.
That's essentially what happened.
Yeah, which is.
Yeah, he becomes like.

(01:28:49):
I don't know that he got like what he deserved.
I think.
Unless what he what he.
Yeah, he deserves open, honest relationship.
Then give what he deserves.
Honestly.
And polygamy.
Um, from Haley, five stars.
Sorry, I'll do this maybe one once more.

(01:29:09):
This was this was a prequel to big love.
The polygamous.
Never.
I just watched that sale right over my head.
And that's the sequel is like he's a Mormon.
Oh, now we're talking.

(01:29:30):
Oh my God.
And maybe if that's where a play.
Yeah, he's a polygamous.
And then all all his wives have to get back on them.
Oh, he like.
He's so confident.
He genuinely doesn't think what he's doing is wrong.
Yeah.
Okay.
Hey, Brandon, can you get that Mr. Hollywood back on the line?
Please.
Yeah, hold on.

(01:29:51):
From Haley.
Haley five stars.
Forced feminization is a topic line is so progressive of them.
Probably my 10th rewatch.
Well, forever love this film.
It's so offensively perfect.
I can't take it.
Sophia Bush made and still makes me feel a specific way in this.
Lol.
Who else remembers that gay kiss being way longer?
Holy jamalama kiss her again.

(01:30:14):
So that's the female gaze.
On that as well.
You know what?
That person should go to jail.
You're so bad.
Probably for a lot of a lot of teenage girls.
This was like a wake up call movie.
They were just like, sure.

(01:30:36):
Like we don't even know.
So I think I liked parts of this that maybe I wasn't expecting to like.
Yeah.
I mean, overall.
I love that for them.
Yeah.
How, how hot do you think John Tucker is like on a scale of one to 10.
Also for men, I feel like John Tucker was probably a wake up call to a lot.

(01:30:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A lot of people that watched this movie were like, ooh.
Yeah.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I'll just do one more.
I'm sorry.
These are fun from IRI five stars.
Once a cheater, always a cheater and asshole is always an asshole.
A red flag is always a red flag.
A jerk will always be a jerk.
Don't go saying anyone.

(01:31:18):
Don't go saying anyone.
You can fix him.
Girl.
No, nothing can fix his unbearable mind.
Nothing and no one, even a good girl like you and God, you literally deserve so much more than him, more than that treatment.
Focus on yourself first.
Okay.
I'm gonna live with Adam.
He's not a loss.
I love Scott.
He's just so my type.
Why do guys like him don't exist here?
There's just so much John Tucker here.

(01:31:40):
Where's here?
I don't know.
I think that was a breakup letter.
Okay.
She lives in a movie.
She's like a talking to the characters like the real people like she's got some heartbreak from freshman year that she still has not done.
Oh, yeah.

(01:32:02):
Scott is her Tucker.
He's the other Tucker.
The other tuck.
The pen vaguely.
The tuck everlasting, if you will.
Maybe that's the sequel.
John Tucker everlasting.
Let's throw a score on this bad boy.
Any other final thoughts?

(01:32:23):
Maddie, would you like to start us off?
Or if you want to pass the torch on to anyone else, feel free.
What am I?
What am I scoring?
Any final thoughts and then zero out of 100, zero being Pupi Dupi Snoopy 100 being.
Yeah, bring me back here again.
I'm blending like watching it today.
Like as though it's watched for the first time, it's probably a terrible movie, but watching it through the lens of being 14 again and watching that movie and being the world as I saw it then again was such a treat.

(01:32:56):
And I think it is such a time capsule, even though so many elements of it are so messed up, that was the time.
So it is just like such a good throwback.
I'm blending those two perspectives.
I like have to be in the middle.
I have to give it like a 56.
Yeah, very fair.

(01:33:17):
Yeah, it is still fun as problematic as it is.
It is still fun and it's such a good throwback and it's just the soundtrack is amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah, soundtrack is great.
Like we that was that was our times.
That was it. That was our life.
And it's, I'm still mad that it's not more like a horror. I thought that they were actually going to try to kill him. So yeah, when I was younger, I was the first time I watched it. I was like pretty bummed about that, you know, like I thought it was going to be scary.

(01:33:46):
But
56.
Yeah, the John Tucker two is going to be an E24 movie.
Warmhouse.
Yes, they're like, they're like, we, as women do not have the confidence to actually deal with the situation the way that we want to.
John Tucker will die.
Definitely will die.

(01:34:09):
FR.
And GL IDG. I had to give.
Please, any final fats that we didn't get this get to share and if you had to score it.
Okay, so everything Maddie said, because I totally agree where it was like, if I watched it now, I don't know how into it I'd be.

(01:34:33):
But like, I like it for nostalgia purposes.
And it wasn't a horrible movie.
Yeah.
I lost my train.
Yeah, I thought I liked that it was just kind of like there wasn't a big conflict.
It's like one of those things you could easily put on if you're like, you had a long day at work and you just want to put on something feel good and fall asleep to or, you know, you just know like nothing bad or crazy is going to happen.

(01:35:04):
Other than the boat scene that was pretty wild.
I'm overhyping it, but I just thought it was so funny.
Yeah.
And yeah, like I was saying earlier too, it was like,
it did feel like there was some like feminist parts, but also there were a lot of like blurred lines were.
Yeah, it was because of the time in 2006 of the male gaze being the standard like that was just the norm.

(01:35:31):
I would have to get it.
I'd say a 69.
Yeah, well Brandon on to you. Good sir.
If you like.
Yeah, that third.

(01:35:53):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Or take the three point shot.
Yeah, which he actually did.
That was real.
Yeah.
That's where I was just chuckling at the soil.
It was like, he's doing this with the final shot.
Get out of here, John Tucker.
He's Florida right now.
You can't do that.
So dramatic.

(01:36:17):
This movie is so confounding in all and so many choices that it makes, but I did manage to find some interest to what we've mentioned already about it is that this movie subsequently is progressive in ways.
And then really regressive, I would argue in other ways.
So it's like, yeah, I would have loved to see this movie lean more into the femininity of it because I think a majority of people who have a fondness for this are probably women, you know, and they connect with this more so then all of the kind of shitty bro masculine stereotypes,

(01:37:00):
still having them in there.
It, and maybe you know what I don't know what the production was like maybe that was like studio notes or something like that to the director, because it's like we want both genders to have fun in the movie theater but this movie would have been so much better if it would have leaned into I think what,
at least I would like to believe it's like ethos is and like the perspective that it's coming from, and it just never really commits to that it presents it which is again, I would argue like at the time, progressive because again so many of these movies are about like about a man going through

(01:37:37):
these things as opposed to girls and whatnot.
But I cannot excuse the last 15 minutes of this movie that is crazy to me.
Now, the party sucks.
So confusing about what happens like.
Yeah, I already mentioned her coming out on stage and then the film starting and then it like stops and then it's like, what's everybody mad about, and then it's like, okay, cut that okay now we're going here.

(01:38:06):
It's always over everybody is you know, and I just I literally was so shocked by the resolution of this movie with john Tucker is a bit where they're like, and he learned something to just kidding.
He's like, well, he's a perfect angel with a bunch of women hasn't changed. It's the same person at the start of this movie. Nothing really happened to him. He's a perfect angel and I was like, well, fuck you movie like at a bare minimum you could have, you did not need to show that joke button to the scene being like,

(01:38:43):
hey ladies, let's get out of here. You didn't need to do that. You could have been like in my mind a shot of like him walking through the hallway and then maybe seeing Brittany Stone being like, you know what I understand you a little bit more I respect you more and I maybe have
to say that the movie doesn't get a shit about that. And so it's hard for me to like, give it even even above a 50, because I do also recognize to like what you know, are what we were talking about is it's it is nice.

(01:39:14):
It is nice to watch a movie where you're like, I'm never, you know, in danger, or there's nothing's ever really going to go wrong where you have to like deal with the fallout of something going wrong.
You know, and then movies can kind of get bogged down in that you know, all of that it's kind of nice that this movie just moves at a clip and it's like you know what fuck it who cares let's go on to the next thing and that's that's got a place you know what movies can be fun.

(01:39:40):
You know, you need to be, you know, deep or yeah, I don't know, something other than just enjoyable. But for me, I'm going to give this movie a, I'm going to give this a 46%.
Excellent. Excellent. On on to me. Yeah, I mean, I, I like where we're all headed in this discussion where we've all been able to enjoy the some of the positives of it.

(01:40:09):
And I think for that, for me to start with, I think it is subjective of me to enjoy the 2006 aspect of this movie, I think that goes a long way from the attire, the wardrobe to the music and, you know, fucking a shanty shit like that.
Like there's there's just trappings of that that are fun for me that makes this movie kind of like I've always kind of been curious about it because it came out at a time when I was in high school so it was on my radar but never saw it.

(01:40:41):
Now that I have seen it, where it wouldn't really be at the type of movie that I would want to throw on naturally as a, as a grown man now but I thought it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be but also it was extremely frustrating that it didn't go one way or the other in terms of full

(01:41:03):
full wacky crazy nonsense sort of stuff in terms of either really trying to go for him and make it dark humor in violent and in that way or more heartfelt and more dramatic even in that sense and instead it kind of just made it

(01:41:28):
more like a good movie. Yeah, I can see why it could be a good sleepover movie or a good movie to just throw on for like a party or something that you're having on in the background because it really just takes the premise and then just does the premise very straight down the
line. I'm really concerned about anything deeper so much so that I really feel like it's just like laying out the hijinks that they have like one by one they just kind of do their thing they do the general herpes thing they whatever they do the boat they do the

(01:41:58):
estrogen thing and it's just about going through the motions that at that point it doesn't really have anything else to say like satirical like satirical wise or any sort of other commentary otherwise because it could get and I'm sure if they you know we'll see with the
film you can get very meta with it as well in terms of how much they were referencing other comedy movies or or a parody or anything like that but instead it really is subpar I could say lukewarm but I think it's subpar I think I would go kind of lower on this because I don't find myself wanting to go back to it for

(01:42:32):
anything memorable I'm gonna go 39 39 for for me not not my favorite but there's a couple times where I laughed really hard and I liked the music and I enjoyed watching it with Cara and if you are gonna watch I'd say watch it with a friend and

(01:42:56):
you know have a sleepover have a pizza party have some babies have something that else is going on besides just the movie and I think it'll it'll be a good time if you're giving your your full self to the movie I don't know if it's going to be that the best
the best experience I thank you guys so much for journeying on this podcast I was curious if you guys want to play a little movie game that I have cooked up here for the John Tucker fans of the world it'll take but a moment

(01:43:33):
I do want to just add one comment to my last or to my opinion was that my favorite parts of the movie were not did not involve John Tucker at all like my favorite parts were like when the girls were together and cooking up some stuff like that was like the best part of it
something just happened to my can you guys hear me and see me that was my favorite part was just like the girl camaraderie that Maddie was saying was my favorite part of the whole movie and yeah I think it's a fun like buddy comedy or not comedy but just like a fun buddy movie

(01:44:13):
nothing yeah that's a yeah it's I mean even as a title I like how straightforward it is yeah I kind of I kind of like that but I do they I kind of wish they would have said it in the movie to that I don't know maybe not it could be like they did say it did they say die

(01:44:34):
yeah I then proceeded to come up with ways that they're not going to kill him right and dateable just make him undateable is undateable undateable
John Tucker must be undateable is the real movie maybe that's the thing for the sequel he'll be undad

(01:44:56):
take away so this movie is the John Tucker must die Ranker game I take different lists that are on this website Ranker and all of these lists have John Tucker must die in them somewhere in the ranking somewhere in the list

(01:45:22):
is our movie here so I'm going to give you the category the list that I have here and it is up to you to guess what number this movie is on the list and the person who is closest to the number gets the point and then it's going to be first to I think we go to three here
so let's see what happens we're starting with the first category here and this is going to go to you Maddie is this list and John Tucker must die is on this list where is John Tucker must die on this list of funniest movies about high school out of 110 movies where does John Tucker must die rank funniest movies about high school

(01:46:07):
number one being the funniest I thought you're going to tell me what number one is I well maybe it's this one okay okay no oh that's true I'll tell you at the end of this I can I can find out and we can I can tell you at the end of this I'm I say this is

(01:46:28):
110 yeah sorry yeah this is a big one 3333 alright Cara to you out of 110 high school movies where does this one rank

(01:46:52):
5858 and to you Brandon 7575 alright John Tucker must die is the 41st funniest movie so Maddie you did 33 that makes you the closest and you get our first point

(01:47:18):
nice I almost said 44 damn it wow that would have been right almost right on the money
anyone want to take a guess what the funniest movie is quick guess high school super bad
oh that's a good guess that is a really good guess oh that's number three this could be a family feud type situation to you but funniest movie about high school

(01:47:49):
no no it is breakfast club funniest funniest yeah that's what they get that's what the people voted on classic maybe people yeah yeah yeah
funny super bad yeah yeah that's our generation funny yeah yeah yeah that's the thing alright next to you Cara in this category of 47 movies where does John Tucker must die rank on best movies to watch when getting over a breakup

(01:48:29):
oh 47 movies probably I'm gonna say for for alright to you Maddie I'm going 10 number 10
alright Brandon 15 number 15 why don't we all agree that it's probably it's pretty high up there yeah it's such a big part of the movie there's so much like it's like yeah four different fresh it

(01:49:03):
is number nine Maddie you are on the got it clearly you played this game before I don't know who told you but you are in the lead with two points for this next category this one's going to Brandon out of 21 movies where does John Tucker must die rank on 21 movies with volleyball scenes that we really did

(01:49:32):
oh well number 12 how many to you Maddie 21 movies with volleyball scenes that we really dig we really dig 7 7 and Cara 10 10 damn Maddie it is number 6

(01:50:01):
she just scored the hat trick three in a row to zero I have other questions here but I don't know it would take it so it was the first one to three so we're kind of we're kind of done here unless you guys want to play in tickets to
John Tucker must die to you guys have to take me when it comes out if it's in movie theaters you guys could just have me over we'll just have a pizza party party yeah well that was a blast I think if anything this is a this is a movie that was fun to yeah watch together and always fun to decide

(01:50:50):
always fun to discuss I think the episodes that you two are on are definitely some of our best and if you guys have enjoyed yourselves here please listen to that Phantom of the Opera
episode because that one is a is a true blast as well I can't wait to have you guys on again so keep your eyes out for any other polarizing movies that that you're into but

(01:51:12):
in the meantime stay tuned for more Phantom news from Maddie more Phantom news from Maddie I will keep you guys updated is there anything else you want to share Maddie before we head off here
no about the movie or anything in general any other anything you would recommend pop culture wise music movies anything else that TV I will say that this movie hit great because I have rewatched all these like the H1 and MTV reality shows from back

(01:51:43):
today and this movie rings true because flat butts were so in the low right low rise jeans and no but and I'm so glad that we're past that as a society you can't wear a lot of this way jeans like that you have a butt that's my take away that's my take away so my problem with the movie flat butts

(01:52:04):
yeah I'm glad I'm glad we because we never brought it up I was thinking I thought that it I'm just so it's just it's a look you don't see anymore and it's good for good reason exactly exactly thank God for the high waisted
anything else for you car that you think is get to share thank you so much for joining us as well.
I'm about this. Anything else or any other things that you'd recommend to people that you've been watching or listening to.

(01:52:34):
Well thank you again.
And looking forward to next time.
Brandini same question.
Um, right review us is what I would say. Great review subscribe on Apple podcasts. Hope you have a wonderful time at Kirk cellar brandini and I'm looking forward to that concert report.

(01:52:59):
And you get back and from all of us here at polarized pod we we truly appreciate you stopping by for this john Tucker must die very special episode and we'll see you next time for walk hard.
Wait no, we already did that one. Right now we are doing walk hard next next week.

(01:53:21):
Damn it. We're doing the double next week. We've already done walk hard. I'm so sorry about my release dates. I'm not sure it's been such a long episode. I forgot from the beginning.
We are doing the double next week. It is starring Jesse Eisenberg. It is rated certified fresh by the critics 83%. It is a poopy doopie snoopy 15% from the audience came out 2013 directed by Richard I.

(01:53:50):
Oh, hey, yeah, stars Jesse Eisenberg, me was a cow. Ska Wallace Sean.
And we hope you join us for that. We love you all and we'll see you next time.
Bye.

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