S4 BONUS: Changed For Good

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Conor Perkins (00:43):
Hello, and welcome to Poor Unfortunate
Podcast, where today wicked iswhat we do...
it's what we live for! We'rethe two besties you never knew
you needed.
I'm Conor Perkins.

Caroline Aimetti (00:54):
And I'm Caroline Aimetti.
This is a Disney podcast forgrown ups because we believe
that magic gets better with age.
Listener discretion is advised.

Welcome to all of our returning listeners and
viewers.
Thanks so much for joining usonce again.
And welcome to any newlisteners or viewers.
Thank you so much for hittingplay.
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(01:24):
That way other people can findthe podcast.
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algorithmy type of things.
So yeah.
All right, Caroline.

Okay.

What are you talking about today?

We're talking about Wicked
And we're sad because we'lltalk about it more later.
We'll try not to go there now.
But this very much feels likethe end of an era of our lives.
And so we're very sad about it.
But before we get there, wehave to gush about this movie.
And so that's what we're gonnado for the next probably too

(02:02):
long.
But for those of you who arenew to this, this is for you.

For the next clock tick.

For the next clock tick, we are here for you
because we are obsessed.

My God.

Just like we did last time.
First of all, if you didn'tlisten a year ago to our first
wicked bonus, Wizomania, you cantotally catch up on that.
But just like we did last year,we'll give you a little bit of
a rundown of how we consumedWicked for Good this past
weekend.
Um, and what we have to saykind of about, I mean, we saw it
multiple times.
We'll talk about that and kindof our thoughts on the formats

(02:38):
we saw it in, the ways in whichwe consume the movie in relation
to Wicked Part One and all ofthose.
So let's start there.

So Spoilers, spoilers.
Oh, yeah, be ahead.

Oh my God.
I wish I had, I wish I had thefabulous fan that Tori from the
Oz Vlog has.
This maybe this could bespoiler.
I mean, this whole thing isgonna be a spoiler.
So just like if you don't wantto be spoiled, and I really just
like we say with a lot of otherthings, I really recommend not
being spoiled.
Like, even if you're like, I'ma casual wicked viewer, it's not
a big deal.
Just go see it first.

(03:08):
You don't need to hear us talkabout it first.

Even if you know the story, like we are both very
familiar with the musical, andI wanted as few spoilers as
possible for this because anyiteration of it is going to be
new.
There's going to be new things.
There's gonna be it's it, it'sit's not just what happens, but
it's how they do it that isinteresting.
So all the people out there whoare like, how can there be a

(03:32):
spoiler?
It's like everyone's havinglike because we don't know how
they're doing it because noone's made a wicked movie
before.

Yeah.

So be kind and considerate with your spoilers,
people.

Spoilers ahead.
This is it.
This is it.
Turn back now.
Okay.
So, much like we did last year,Conor and I saw Wicked together
three times.
Opening weekend.
And then we each saw off moretime with our families.

And I'm going tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.

You are?

Yes.

Hell yeah.
Hell fucking yeah.
Um, I have at my corporate job,long story, but I'm in charge
of like the music leading up tothe big company wide meeting.
And I like made everybodylisten to Wicked this month.
And the number of slacks that Ilogged back into on Monday of
people being like, Did you seeWicked?
Like, I saw Wicked and I wantto talk about it.
That fixed something in me thatI think needed to be fixed.

(04:30):
Um, so there that was a goodthing.
Yeah.
Exactly now.
I have done what I needed todo.
So we kicked off.
We decided to do Wickedbasically the same way we did it
last year because um, no notesreally.
So our first viewing was IMAX,which I feel like was the right
choice.

And because I'm me and slightly psychotic, um, I
made sure that we booked thesame exact theater and the same
exact seats that we were in forWicked part one.

Yeah.

And I think that was the right choice.
It felt it felt like a fullcircle-y kind of moment.

The one thing I think we both did say though
is I wouldn't change it.
But sitting in the same seatsand having the same, you know,
viewing experiences the firsttime set us up to fail is too
strong of a phrase, but it'sthat's not what I mean.
But this movie is so differentfrom part one that we couldn't

(05:29):
have known that we weren't goingto replicate the experience of
seeing the first part.

Yeah.

Because they're two, they're I mean,
they're all one story, butthey're two different different
films, very different.
Yes.
So I think, I mean, obviouslywe loved it, we sobbed, we were
overwhelmed.
I mean, it was it was we handedout tissues.
Yeah, we handed out tissues.

If any of you are here listening or watching,
because we handed out tissuesand you were at our IMAX
performance, hi.
Thank you.

We're so happy we shared that experience with
you.
It was a it was a goodaudience.
It was like the audience was init, but yeah, like our bodies
were tensed for the entire twohours and 17 minutes.
It was like reallyoverwhelming.
We talked about it until 3 a.m.
in the Times SquareRaising Canes.

Yes, we did.

And then we were ready to go do it again the
next day.
So then the next day, we saw anafternoon screening in Dolby,
which I will say last year whenwe saw it in Dolby, I was like,
okay.
This year it was incredible.
And then seeing it in otherformats, including like
basically regular format laterin the weekend, I sensed the
difference immediately.

(06:33):
Yeah.
Um, that was great.
And then we closed out ourthree viewings together with
4DX.
Which there's no, there's justno substituting the 4DX
experience of Wicked.
I mean, for the fog alone.
The fog alone for another veryspecific part.
Should I just start talkingabout it now?

Let's just start talking about it real quick.

So jumping ahead, I mean, we we have a
light structure for this, youall, but it's it's light.
Well, we have a lot to talkabout.
Um, we'll talk about like themoments that we can't stop
thinking about, which this isdefinitely a part of for me.
But spoiler.
In "As Long As You're Mine",which is, I mean, coming from
somebody who like needed it tobe the world.
I mean, I thought it wasincredible.

(07:15):
And so, like, truly, if it'scoming from me, that's saying
something.
Um, the seats of the seats,like the bottom part of the
seats vibrated.

Vibrated.
And literally before I said it,before it started, I was like,
all I were like joking around.
For "As Long As You're Mine",I'm like, I just want the seat
to like thump on my butt whileit's happening.
And then it did.

I really had a moment where I was like, I'm in
public.
Like, what is happening?

The seats were boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom.

But then there was also just like a light,
like yeah.
So needless to say, werecommend in 4DX.
And it's funny because some ofthe, you know, with the flight
and a lot of the more intense,like the tornado, so much of it
in 4DX is so intense.
And that was our third viewingin like 24 hours.
And I was like, you know, I'mI'm tapped out, right?

(08:07):
Like, I'm not gonna cry.
This is more of like a sensoryexperience.
It got me every damn time,every time.

I think honestly, my last viewing, the fourth
viewing, it got me just as hardas the first one.

Yes, me too.

I think I had like a curve of like slowly like
getting better, and then itjust like Yes.
This last one, I was no good.

Yes, yes.
So we parted ways, and then Isaw it in uh it was in a
showcase theater.
It was technically we were inthe special theater.
I think it was called RPX.
I think it was called RPX.
So I saw an RPX, which I reallyenjoyed.
Um, but Conor went and saw thedouble feature.

I did.
I saw, but it wasn't like theofficial double feature that's
coming out to movie theaters, itwas a double feature at my
local drive-in theater.
So lucky enough in Marylandthat we still have a drive-in,
and our drive-in theater screenboasts the largest screen in the
United States.
So I watched the double featureof Wicked and Wicked: For Good.

(09:11):
Oh my god.
And I have said this onthreads, I will say it until the
day that I die.
I cannot impress upon everyoneenough that this is how these
films were meant to be seen.
You can, of course, watch thesefilms by themselves, but why

(09:32):
would you when watching themtogether unlocks both parts in a
way that I can't describe it.
I like I can't describe it.
This is, I think, one of thefinest representations of
duality in film I've kind ofever seen.
The amount that both filmsreference each other in the

(09:54):
cinematography, in theproduction design, in acting
choices alone, it's completelyinsane.
Um camera work, the""Defying Gravity"" camera work
during the Just You and I,Defying Gravity, where it's
going around the two of them,and how that mirrors the exact
same thing that happens whenthey're singing "For Good"

(10:17):
together.
And the camera work is exactlythe same.
The duality of the shots ofboth of both Elphaba walking out
onto the balcony of the EmeraldCity Attic Tower and Glinda
doing it.
There's so much duality, andbeing able to watch one right

(10:38):
into two, you get to appreciateall of it.
It's so good.
And I know a lot of people aresaying, well, some people are
saying, well, that means that itshould should have been a
single film then.
And I'm like, you know, Idon't, I don't know.
But if making it a single filmmeant sacrificing anything that
we got from both of these films,it wouldn't be worth it to me.

(11:01):
I wouldn't I wouldn't cutanything from the first film,
just as I don't think I wouldcut anything from the second
film.

Yeah.

If anything, I might add to the second film a
little bit more.

Oh my god, absolutely.
Say it could have been longerfor me, but we're very biased
when it comes to that.
And and I don't want to live inany delusional dream world that
people who weren't originallyfans of this material would sit
through a super long singlefilm.
They just wouldn't.
We needed this momentum tobuild up from the first one.
It just wouldn't, we would, butnot everybody would.
And so I wouldn't change it.

It's kind of a thing where I think it's damned
if you do, damned if you don't,because some people certainly
have pointed out, like, youknow, Le Miz has done it.
They did it all in one film.
And I'm like, true, but it wasa long film.
But we've also seen like a filmlike Into the Woods, where
that's a two-act musical thatthey put it into one single
film.

(11:52):
And I think it was actually tothe detriment of the film
because it took such a it tooksuch a drastic turn, which most
musicals do in their second act.
Act one is usually a verycomplete story that is, you
know, about discovery and thenmaking choices and all of that
sort of thing.
And then act two is about theconsequences of those choices.

(12:13):
So, you know, I I think thatthere was no right way of doing
this.
And I think that with what theychose to do, splitting this
into two parts, I thinkultimately it was the right
move.
And watching them togethercertainly is the way to do it

(12:33):
because any complaints thatanyone might have, myself
included, about pacing issues inthe second film, which I've
heard from a lot of people, Ican respect those pacing issues
are almost completely resolvedby watching both films together.

Yeah, that's the thing.
I'm sure that there's nothingwe will say in this episode that
like other people aren'tsaying, but I think it is worth
repeating that this is thecontinuation of the same story.
When the first time when whenpeople text me and ask me how
was it, first of all, I'm notgonna tell you because I just
like want you to run a panel.
Also, basically, unless theylike cut all of the songs, I'm

(13:12):
always gonna think it's amazing,pretty much.
But also, I the one thing thatI do say to people is just
remember, it is it is acontinuation, it is the fallout
of all of the decisions thatthese characters made in the
first movie.
And interestingly, you justnever know because I'm like, and
I feel like at first I waslike, that's something that
maybe people who are, you know,really, really big fans of the

(13:34):
musical, like we are, can canappreciate the most.
And by golly, my dad has seenit on Broadway.
He hasn't seen it on Broadwaysince 2005.
It's been a really long time.
He liked part two better.

I am seeing a lot of people who are enjoying part
two.

He walked out and he and he was like, he was
like, I loved it.
It was way better.
I was like, wow, you just neverknow.
I mean you never know.

It certainly, if you're looking for uh one of the
parts that has the emotionalweight, like more emotional
weight, obviously, act two, parttwo is where you're gonna want
to be.
But yeah, I think I think themindset in which you go into
this film is very important,knowing that, knowing that it is
a continuation of the samestory as opposed to a true

(14:18):
sequel.
Even us going into this, we hadboth watched the the first part
the day before and then wentinto this.
And the the time between evenwatching part one and part two,
you can feel you can feel thatlength of time.
So, yeah, again, as much aspossible, I would recommend

(14:39):
doing a double feature becauseyes, that is how it is intended
to be seen.

I also, for both of us, this movie got
better every single time, too.
Yes, that was another thing.
Look at us, we're insanelybiased.
But they we, like I said, wewent to Raising Canes and we we
talked about the movie until 3a.m.
And there were some things thatwe're like, oh wait, wait, but

(15:06):
what about the we were we werewe weren't picking it apart, but
we were just like, huh?
Yeah.
It's just so I mean it's a it'sa very emotionally overwhelming
film, but also once shit startsto get moving in the latter
half of this movie, it just itis nonstop and you're processing
a lot of things at one time.
So there was one moment that weviewed completely differently,

(15:28):
that we interpreted in oppositeways, and it took a second
viewing for us to actuallyunderstand what was happening in
that moment.
And these we are two people whoknow this show by heart.

So and there are also other moments that have
been left intentionally blurredand ambiguous about how it's
there, so that each time youcome to it, depending on what
you are bringing to it,something new will be revealed,
or so there will be somethingnew for you to take away, which
I think is one of the mostbeautiful things about live

(16:00):
theater.
And I think one of the thingsthat is very, very difficult to
capture or retain from changinglive theater into a film
performance.
And I think that they have thatability for every single time
you watch it, it to be slightlydifferent.
It does feel like every singletime I watch this film, it is
slightly different.

The structure that we have set up is that we
are first going to talk aboutthe changes that were made for
this film and how it differsfrom act two of the Broadway
musical.
I'm sure that will kind ofmeander into the other main
thing we plan to discuss, whichis just like what are the
moments from this film that arejust like living in our heads
rent-free and always will.
I'm sure there will be someoverlap there, but just so you

(16:41):
know, that is going to be themain structure of this episode
because we could definitely gobeat by beat.
And maybe one day, you know, ifwe ever set up a Patreon, we'll
just go beat by beat throughthis film and we'll never know.
But we'll start, we'll kind ofuse the changes that were made
for the film as our jumping offpoint of this discussion, and we
will go from there.

Well, I think a great way that we can segue into
it is just overall, I thinkthat Wicked: For Good, for
better or for worse, regardlessof what you think, is extremely
faithful to act two of themusical.
I came away being like, that'sact two.
And act two of the musical, youknow, a lot of people are like,

(17:23):
it's kind of it kind of doesn'tmake as much sense.
It feels people are will say,like, oh, it's kind of messy.
And, you know, I don'tnecessarily fully agree with
that assessment of act two ofthe musical.

I'm an act two girl, what can I say?
But I really am.

But it is extremely faithful to it.
All of the beats of act two ofthe stage musical are completely
hit and expanded upon in thisin this film.
So let's talk about some of thethings that are that are
differing from it.

I'm gonna try to talk about major things
because I was gonna kick offwith like literally the opening
scene of this movie.

Well, I mean, let's talk about though.
Let's start there because Ithink we can use that as
something else that sort of doescarry through this film as a
whole in in some of theadditional scenes that they've
added.
They've added a lot more actionto it.
They've added the way that thisfilm opens, it feels kind of
like a Marvel movie.
And Elphaba is our superhero,supervillain kind of anti-hero

(18:22):
thing.
And honestly, I think what itdoes is it really grounds us
into the stakes of what ishappening, especially with the
time jump, because there is a12-tide turn time jump, which is
done in the voiceover.
So that's a year.
Um, where in the stage musicalit's two to five years.

And I keep hearing different things, even
like someone online is sayingthat Jon M.
Chu said it was longer than ayear.

No, Dana Fox just did an interview and she was
like, No, it's a year.

I I struck I won't lie to you, I struggle
with that a little bit becauseI'm like, so we have a bunch of
college sophomore dropouts.
What?
What do you mean?
I don't know about that.
I just don't know about that.
But whatever.
Because that does sort of playinto Nessarose like being Which
is they that's a line, like shemakes the joke in the stage
show, I'm an unelected official,and like they took that joke

(19:12):
out, so okay.
But it also like I think italso helps, it helps Fiyero
because he's not stringingGlinda along for like five
years.
It's you know, maybe they'vebeen together for two years.
I get it.
I get it.
Um, but I just love, and thisis something that the stage
musical couldn't allow becausethe obviously the one time in
the stage musical when we seeElphaba fly is in

(19:34):
"Defying Gravity".
Seeing her fly around andseeing what she, we don't get to
see what she's up to in act twoof the musical.
We she mentioned, like, youknow, Nestro says the same thing
she says in this film, like youfly around Oz helping animals,
you know, that you don't evenknow you I've never even met.
And seeing what she's up to, Ithink is just killer.
I think so too.

Seeing what she's up to and then seeing how that
is being spun by the propagandamachine of the Emerald City run
by Madame Morrible.
Yeah, I think is just really,really interesting.
Also, the Yellow Brick Road asa concept being built.

Being built then oh because that is not part
of the musical.

It is part of the book, the the building of the
yellow brick road.

Yes.

And I think that that was such a great way to
again fuse both parts togetherbecause that is something that's
introduced very quickly at theend of part one, and then we get
to see it like and Glinda picksout yellow.

She picks out that beautiful yellow for the
road.
She does.
She does.
Um, I, this is something that Iwanted to bring up, and I guess
maybe now's a good of a time asever.
One of the only disappointingexperiences I've had with this
film is how much of it wasspoiled in the trailers.
Conor and I have talked aboutthis a lot.
Um, so many delightful momentsthat there would have been

(20:53):
nothing like experiencing it forthe first time in the theater
as part of the larger story weretotally stolen from us.
I'm just gonna be straight up.

Yeah.

And so maybe that is why one of these next
moments is a change from themusical and is also something
that has been living in my headran free, which is that we get a
little reprise from Elphaba of"The Wizard and I".
And I am so glad nobody told meI was gonna get that.

I am too.
The new material that StephenSchwartz has written in
"Every Day More Wicked" is it'sso good.
Perfect.

Perfect, so good.

Perfect, perfect.
We get we get the"What is this Feeling?
reprise" with Glinda or nowGlinda and her posse.
And we get, which is fantasticbecause it's like that's the
world that she's living in,still this like superficial what
are other people thinking ofme.
And then Elphaba has hersolitary thing, what's her big
solitary, like I want moment,"Wizard and I", and that comes

(21:51):
back.
And then we have even these newmusical moments.

Yeah, it's perfect.

It's very opening number, like establishing, like
re-establishing where we allare in a really, really great
way.
We've got the ensemble doingtheir "Every Day More Wicked",
we've got, and then we have ourtwo heroes each having their
moment and then coming back intothe ensemble.
It's really, really well done.

What Elphaba, the way that Elphaba phrases
what she's saying in thisreprise to me is so Elphaba.
It's like when I start like andit's so interesting because
it's she has still this likedogged belief that it's like I'm
gonna get people to believe me.
I'm gonna get it's I'm obsessedwith that.
And I also love that she says,like, when I do it, all Oz will

(22:41):
applaud because later than whenshe's singing "No Good Deed",
she's like, was I doing all ofthis for attention?
Like so that people like wouldcelebrate and applaud me.
And I love that now we havethat seed planted when we see
her again for the first time forus, you know, in a year.

Yeah, I agree.
Oh, it's really good.
And then also just the theaccompaniment taking a minor
turn on the when I stop thewizard, all Oz will applaud.
Oh my god.

It's I've been I have been like singing that
under my breath and not stop.
I will I'm obsessed with it.

So I think while we're on the topic of new music
and new new things that havebeen added into the music, yeah,
let's talk about the two newsongs that were written
specifically for this.
So we have"No Place Like Home", which is
Elphaba's new song, and we have"The Girl in the Bubble", which
is Glinda's new song.
Personally, for me,"No Place Like Home" is more of

(23:37):
the one that I gravitate to.
However, watching StephenSchwartz unpack how
"The Girl in the Bubble" waswritten, there are so many
layers into it that I think noone can really appreciate on
first watch.
And on first watch, I was like,I don't know if I really needed
"The Girl in the Bubble".
And then every single time Iwatched it, I'm like, nope, I

(23:58):
changed my mind.
I kind of need"The Girl in the Bubble".

Oh my God.

But before we go to "The Girl in the Bubble", I
want to talk about"No Place Like Home", just
because that's chronologicallythe first one that we get.
I love this song so much.
So, so much.
And every single time I hearit, I love it more and more.
Hearing Elphaba work throughher thought process of why am I

(24:22):
working so hard to save thisplace that doesn't want me?
And having this among theanimals and seeing how she
interacts with them, how theyknow that she is trying to help
them, but failing at it.
And that even they are like, weappreciate what you're doing,

(24:44):
but it's not ever gonna changeanything.
So we're gonna go.
It's so interesting.
And then to have this, thislike this the opening part of
it, which is you know, much morefree-flowing, very
contemplative, turn into thissort of like anthem of say
there's "No Place Like Home"because this home belongs to us

(25:06):
too.
So inspiring.
And also to know that this waswritten years ago.
This song was written yearsago, and it feels so top of mind
right now.
It's just, it's it really is, Ifeel like such a great
resistance anthem.

And it's so interesting to me how I've read
people say online of the song.
So, like, oh yeah, you know,plot and character
development-wise, I didn't needeither of these new songs, and
I'm like hard disagree.
However, I might feel aboutwhere it stacks up in, like I
said, I'm a huge act two lover.
I know people think all thebops are in act one.
I mean, there are so many bopsin act one, but I love the act

(25:46):
two.

Here's the thing I think there are more bops in
act one, but I think all of thesongs that carry the most
emotional weight, they're in acttwo.

Far, far and away.
And like two of my favoritesongs ever are in act two.
So it's like very, veryweighted for me.
When I first learned aboutthese songs and I knew what
they, first of all, just tell methat we're gonna have the
phrase "no place like home".
I'm I'm bought in.

Which there are some people, there are some
people out there who are alreadycriticizing like using
"no place like home", andthey're like, if you're gonna
bring that in here, like there'scertain things, whatever.
Oh, disagree.

It's just supposed to be no.

Because also, "no place like home", when
Elphaba goes and visits Nessa,yeah, Nessa's like, what are you
doing here?
And she says there's"no place like home".

Yeah.

Like, so let's not act like this phrase is
divorced from the musical.
It's been there from thebeginning.

Right.
A hundred percent.
I think if Elphaba is going toget another song in act two, it
simply must be, Why am I doingthis?
It has to be like what what andwhen I heard the first little
clip that they released onsocial media of like of Cynthia
singing some of the intro of thesong before it gets.

Why do I love this place that never leaves?
Oh, yeah.

I was just like, take my money.
Yep.
This is yep.
And to me, what I like the mostabout this, interestingly, not
that it's a competition betweenthe two songs at all, but I
actually am more of a girl inthe bubble girl.
Go figure.
We'll talk about that too.
What I love about this is itfeels so like this is coming
from Cynthia's Elphabaspecifically.

(27:18):
Like it, it's for her voice.
It's for her voice.

It's for her voice, but it's also for the
Elphaba that we are telling inthis story.
Because we get to, in a film,see her interact with the
animals in a way that we don'tget to in the stage musical.
Now we've got so many, likefreaking so many Dulci Bear.
We've got we've got a bunch ofthese animal characters that are
so present.

(27:42):
And then to have Dulci Bearreturn and be the catalyst for
how this is God.
Oh my god.

Another thing.
Thank God that wasn't spoiledfor me.

Thank God.

Because I am obsessed with Dulci Bear.
I'm obsessed with Dulci Bear.
And yes, it was just so Ididn't know if she was ever
gonna come back.
And yes, just having and herand her, the last thing that she
says to Elphaba being like,Because I I know you're gonna
keep fighting, because I knowyou.

Because I know you.
I happen to change.

Perfect.

Listen, people perfect.
And you know what?
I have to tip my hat to DanaFox because a lot of these
expanded moments were because ofher.
She she was looking at thescript and was like, I feel like
we could use something here.
Like, I feel like we we havingthat outside eye, having
somebody else.
I was gonna say, like, and thento have people like Stephen

(28:33):
Schwartz and Winnie Holzman whoare so game for it and are like,
Yeah, yes, we value that.
It it it worked so so well.

I love I love the fact that Dana has talked
about hoping that her relativeinexperience with Wicked would
be an asset, and I think it justhas been beyond.
I think it was the fact thatwhen she was offered the job,
she hadn't seen Wicked and shecouldn't really because it was
the pandemic.
So she like watched a lot oflike slime tutorials tutorials

(29:03):
and stuff.
Um, I think that is such a likeI think that's part of it too,
is it's like, you know, we cansit here, having not been a part
of the creative process of thefilm, any of us can, and be
like, oh well, it's so obvious.
Why didn't they call back tothis?
It's because we're removed fromit.
We're not lost in the sauce theway that these folks need to be
to give us the incrediblematerial that they did give us.

And there is so much in Wicked, in Wicked, the
book, in The Wizard of Oz, inthe world.
We can't touch on all of it.

It's impossible.

That like I don't know how someone who is in it
that deep can be removed enoughto give us a script that is this
good and so specific andcharting these sort of like
heartbeat moments of both ofthese characters.
Because that's the other thingis they've really arced this in

(29:55):
such a way for both Glinda andElphaba that they've truly.
Truly, are our two heroesmoving us through this?
Two heroes going about thingsin very, very different ways and
how they are together in a waythat I don't think the musical
really does.
The musical is very firmly likethis is Elphaba's story in Act

(30:15):
Two.
Glinda falls to the background.

Yeah.
There's and it's just sointeresting to think about how
in the book and in the originalworkshops of Wicked the Musical,
Glinda was a side character.
So the evolution of what shehas become is fascinating to me.

To the point where right now Gregory Maguire
is writing Glinda.
A Glinda prequel for my Yeah.

And on that note, same thing that I said
before.
Absolutely, if if now it is thetwo the journey of these two
women, of course, Glinda needs acome to Jesus moment.
Of course that's what her songwould be.
When when people really try tosay, and I've actually heard the
case made more against Girl inthe Bubble being useful plot and

(31:01):
character development-wise, Icould not disagree more.
Of course, in this story,Glinda needs to sing through the
realization that something hasgotta give.

Because that's our convention.
That's how like our conventionof a musical is we sing through
these hard moments.
And for her hardest, like oneof her hardest moments, of
course, she's gonna sing throughit.
I there's no doubt in my mindthat "The Girl in the Bubble"
works as a song emotionally forthe character.
I think if any, and I think iteven works, it works great where
it is.
I think if there's anything inmy mind that I would do is I

(31:34):
would want to see"The Girl in the Bubble" moved
just a bit after where itcurrently hits, after the Madame
Morrible scene where she's toldto shut up.
Like I would love to see Glindajust sort of like That's
interesting.
Just sort of like putting hertoe just slightly out, testing
the waters, getting this hugeblowback, and then making the

(31:56):
choice to work througheverything and then to pop the
bubble.
It's almost like she's pushingagainst the bubble for the first
time.
She gets the blowback, and thennow she's like, I gotta pop
this thing.
I feel like I that's where Iwant it.

I would actually leave it where it is.
And I've said this to you ahundred times because I can't
stop thinking about it.
And I I said to you after wesaw the movie, I was like, I
think all we need is an intro.

Yeah.

Before she catches herself in the mirror.
That doesn't, that to me feelslike the middle of the song, or
the the at least the big likethe beginning of the meat of the
song.
And lo and behold, I found her.
There was an intro.
There was an intro, and it saidexactly what I feel like it
needed, which is she was she'slooking at the mob, she closes
the doors, and she has like acouple of lines of like, okay,

(32:40):
like I can keep doing what I'vebeen doing, and I can pretend
that I'm not seeing this.
Like I can pretend this isn'thappening.
And then you look at yourselfand you're like, no, I can't.
Boom! That's perfect.
Perfect.
And like I, I really, this songis really becoming, it's got me
good.
It wasn't even the first time.
It got me good.

Every single time she is weeping through this.

Weeping, weeping.
It's that overhead shot comingdown.
Oh Alice Brooks.

Oh my god, the cinematography for this film,
incredible.

Oh my god.

The PanaVision lenses that they've done for
this film that were craftedspecifically for Wicked and
Wicked for Good that have neverbeen used in any other movie
ever.
It all works so, so well.
It does make it feel dreamlike.
Like the cinematography work in"The Girl in the Bubble" is
exquisite.

(33:35):
It is absolutely exquisite.
And you know that it's goodbecause lay people coming out of
the theater who don't reallypay attention to cinematography
are like, oh my god, that scene.
How did they do that?
And it's like, it was her and adoll and a lot of rehearsal.

And I think that's the thing about so much
of this franchise.
We can call it a franchise now,right?
I mean, it's one story, butthis franchise in so many facets
from direction tocinematography, design, all of
it, performances.
These folks are at the top oftheir game and they make it all
look way too easy.
And we don't even realizethat's what I've I'm so I so

(34:15):
agree with you because that'swhat I'm realizing.
They make the impossible seemlike a given.

Yeah, like the fact that Ari is running in real
time to make an entrance justlike she would on a stage.

Like is so actually, why don't we talk
about that too?
Why don't we talk about thatscene, which is having Glinda be
in "Wonderful"?

I think it was the right move.

I liked it.

I liked it a lot, and I yeah, that was one of the
things that I think even seeingthat in the promotional stuff,
I was like, duh, of courseGlinda's in "Wonderful".
And it was, and then I thinkthe addition of the scene that
Jon was like, we need to have ascene right before.
If Glinda's gonna be in"Wonderful", we need to have a
scene before.
Um, and I think Dana wasanother person who was like

(34:59):
really instrumental in that.
And she and she was like, ifthese are our two heroes,
they're spending way too muchtime away from each other.
So we need to get them backtogether as soon as possible to
show how much they're missingone another before we separate
them again.
And having that scene ofGlinda's wedding night and
Elphaba showing up and movingthe dialogue of the we can't all

(35:22):
come and go by bubble.
Oh, from being a retort tosomething that is charming
between the two of them.

That scene, first of all, obsessed with
Glinda is alone getting readyfor her wedding, except for her.
People are like, oh, except forher animal friends, her animal
servants, servants, her animalservants, okay?
Amazing, love that.
The fact that she has thepopular flower, the pink popular

(35:52):
flower, and then she takes itin the out before she greets
Elphaba.
And then that exchange whenElphaba is like careful your
dress, and they're just lookingat each other, and you see them
be like, holy shit.
Especially Elphaba, you see iton her face.
Alfred's like, damn.
And like, what are we doing?
We live in two completelydifferent, like, what do we even

(36:13):
have in common anymore?
Almost.
Oh my god, that was sobeautiful, so damn beautiful.
I loved that so much.
I did too.
Cynthia, I can't right now.
We'll we'll talk about itlater.
I because I'll never stop.
Cynthia.

Cynthia, a titan.

She is really making so emotional.
She just does such like abeautiful job.

Yeah.

With like, ah man.

She had literally the we're talking about it now.
Sorry, we're talking about itnow.
Cynthia Erivo had theimpossible task of taking one of
the most iconic fairy talecharacters, iconic film
characters, iconic Broadwaycharacters, and mixing them all

(37:01):
together, and then putting itthrough the eye of a needle for
a film performance, which is acompletely different other
thing, while also putting herown spin on it.
And she sticks the landingevery single time.

And never mind that it's one of the most
difficult things in musicaltheater.
Yes.
And then she's doing actualflying and stunts on top of it.

If we're talking about people making it look too
easy, Cynthia Erivo is the onewho makes it look too easy.

This is this is a role, yes, of course, on uh
in one day on set, they're notperforming the entire musical,
of course.
But this is a role that theactors who play Elphaba have to
live like monks in order to makeit happen.
And it is, I don't even thinkit's a performance that should
that can happen eight times aweek.
Like that's why the standby,like I think, I think just like

(37:53):
Christine in Phantom, I thinkElphaba should have a full-time
alternate, but that's anotherstory for another time.
But Cynthia is singing andacting that material on a film
schedule.
She was sleeping for like fivehours.
It's just not, it's not evenhuman.
It's not even human.
I don't actually know how shepulled it off, especially with a

(38:17):
character like Elphaba.
And I, oh my God.
She, it's really like her andIdina are my dream Elphabas.
I I've talked to you about thisa hundred times.
My favorite Elphabas.
And and this isn't somethingthat is 100% attainable in the
Gershwin theater in New York.
It's not, it's not attainable.
I love a stoic Elphaba.
They're my fave.
Yes, I'm that's that's myflavor of Elphaba that is my

(38:37):
favorite.
And it's crazy because it's noteven like same with Idina.
It's like I stoicism is thebest word I can find, but it's
not that because both of theirElphabas feel deeply.

Yes, deeply.

And I love how often Cynthia allows herself to
shed tears and isn't likehasn't made Elphaba cold hearted
or even overly, she's notsurprised by a lot, like she's
hurt, but she's not surprised bythe way that she's treated and
what goes down.
And I love that.

(39:12):
That is such a fine line towalk of like this like
emotionally deep but reservedElphaba.

But all of the feeling is at the surface.

Yes.
And having that shine and equala character that is naturally
big and bubbly like Glinda, isso hard.
It's so hard.
It's hard to not get swept upin her energy level, and it's
hard to match it in your ownway.
And she does it.

And I think it's because she chooses very
specific places where it's likethere is in her Elphaba, and
we've talked about this manytimes.
There is the stoic reservedbit.
There is the I feel deeply,yeah, like there.
I have I have such a strongwant and desire.
And then I also have like thisstrong sense of justice of what

(39:59):
is right and what is wrong, thatall of those are there.
But then there is also like thesuppression of the child that
never got to be the child,uh-huh.
And finding the places wherethat sort of naivety leaps out
of her.
And then you see it when she'sholding that figurine of herself

(40:20):
where she's like my favorite.

That might be my favorite moment of the whole
two films.

She's like a kid at Christmas, and she's like
becomes shy around the wizardbecause I can't.
There's there's so muchhappening in the way that this
character is being portrayed.
And number one, Elphabas onBroadway, you can't do that.
Like you can't.

You can't you have to go more gawky and
exasperated because it's theonly the Gershwin theater.
I've sat in the last row of theGershwin Theater.
You might as well be in NewJersey.
It would never work.
It would never work.

Not to mention the fact that like you're not
really allowed to explore thecharacter all that much.

We we could do a whole I am fast.
Oh my god, I've listened to toomany interviews.
I've probably listened to everysingle episode of Sentimental
Men shout out if you need morewicked content.
And like you are very limitedin what you can do.
It's wicked, like a lot ofother shows, it's no shade.
It's it's corporate.
It's they've got to keep itrunning and keep it consistent,

(41:24):
which is also a union issue.
And so you can't go out theremaking up riffs you want to do,
making out of the box.
You can't.
You can't do it.
Um, so obviously, I want likewe're dealing with two
completely different animalshere.
And it's so funny how like Iknow that.
As someone obsessed withwicked, I know that.
But how it took me a minute,speaking of seeing this multiple

(41:48):
times, for a moment, like"As Long As You're Mine".
"As Long As You're Mine" let isthe center of my universe.
I mean, I don't even think I'mexaggerating.
"As Long As You're Mine" isIt's a poor island of one of my,
it's it's an island ofpersonality.

It's blue diamonds on a green field.

It was like our Wi-Fi password when we lived
together.
Like Elphaba and Fiyero arelike my ship of all ships.
"As Long As You're Mine" is oneof my favorite songs ever, it
like it's changed everything forme.
Like, I whatever, I'm like inmy 30s now, none of the shit
matters anymore, right?
Like when I got to sing it inlike a Broadway review, fully
fell in love with the guy that Iwas singing it with because I

(42:28):
was just like lost in thefucking sauce.
Like I was in it.
Because I was like, I can'tbelieve I'm finally doing this.
Anyway, as someone who loves iton Broadway and is very
accustomed, first of all, isobsessed with the more R-rated
nature of the book, knew weweren't going to get that.
On stage, it's very steamy.
It's just a lot of feeling eachother up, looking into each
other.

Yeah, they are all over each other.
All over each other, hands,hands, hands.

Yes.
And I never thought too deeplyabout how it was going to happen
on film because I'm like, JonM.
Shu's got this.
Whatever.
I I never thought about thefact that, like, yeah, it it
can't even be super similarbecause you can't stare at each
other and touch each other forfour minutes on film.
And so I I'm talking about thisbecause Cynthia's Elphaba is

(43:14):
just moves so seamlessly intothat song.
Because first of all, whenFiyero is like, I'm going with
her, and both Glinda and Elphabasay, What?

She like whispers it, you almost can't even hear
it because it's she is in suchdisbelief because it is
something that she has alwayswanted and never allowed herself
to even like imagine couldactually happen.

Yes, and like to the point where they're
walking away, they're alone fora minute, and Fiyero is clearly
trying to already kiss her,which I'm obsessed with.
They haven't even gotten out ofthe palace, and he's like, Let
me get some of that.
And she like just keeps going.

And she like puts distance, and then the
dichotomy, I was watching Jon M.
Chew talk about this scene.
Me too, me too.

I mean, I could listen to him talk about
this scene.

Where he was talking about how active Elphaba
is in her lyrics of like, kissme too fierce, they hold me too
tight.
And he's like, But how do youbuild tension?

Yeah, he's like, You can't come out of the
gate.
He's like, You can't do that.

He was like, So, to then take that and pull her
away from it and make that anintrospective thing of these are
the things that I want.
It just highlights the piece ofElphaba that we were talking
about, of where she wants sodeeply, and all of those things
we can see in her, but she's notletting other people see it.

(44:32):
And it's leaping out.

Their first moment of closeness happening in
the mirror.
First of all, ha ha.
Second of all.
No, second of all, I mean, itmakes so much sense.

They're not even on each other.
Like they're like, he's justlike in her like in her hair and
her neck.

And I'm like, just smelling her.

I'm like, they're not kissing or anything.
Like, nope.

But it makes so much sense to me why.
Again, part partially becauseI'm sure right to the left of
this mirror are the propagandaposters that she's saved.
It makes so much sense to me.
People are like, well, Elf wasjust walking away from him.
It makes so much sense to me.
She what she's confronted withher reflection and what everyone
else says about it.

(45:15):
And then there's this guy whoshe loves behind her feeling it,
and she can't believe it.
How but how like I would blameher.

Yeah.
And it's just like, I need aminute.
And that's liter like that'sliterally what she says.
She says, I need help believingyou're with me tonight.
Like it's it's almost just likeyou're picking a different
piece of the of her lyric toinfluence.

You're all lying, lying.
Okay.
If you're trying to tell methat you haven't had a moment
with someone that you're reallyinto and you wanna, you want to
get down, and you're like, I'mgonna like change to the outfit,
but I can't bring myself tolike fully do this because I'm
scared.

Yeah.
And it's also like, I have abunch of like cringy things in
my house.
Let me just take a step backand see how they're reacting to
the things.

Right.
Give her a minute, okay?
And also let's talk about thefact that, and I'm sure that
different Elphabas havedifferent opinions about this.
It seems to me like she's maybenever done this before.
So, like, pardon me if she'snot like immediately all over
him, even though she wants tobe, and even though I want them

(46:22):
to be.
But part of what I enjoy inmedia is like restraint, the
yearning, the restraint, thetease.
Like I have learned a deep,deep lesson, and I thank you,
Jon M Chu.
Like, thank you.
I don't need everybody to bemaking out at all times to be
like this is it.
And I then, because it isallowed to build, I think my
favorite part of the song, itprobably would have been them

(46:45):
flying, but that was spoiled soso early on.

Another thing of marketing, giving us too much.
We didn't need it.

You guys, if I had seen them float together
for the first time, seeing themovie, I would have passed away.
I would have lost my shit.
And I'm kind of sad that Ididn't get that.
But I love then because it hasbeen allowed to build, when they
finally start walking out ofthe treehouse together before
they float, the joy and like thegrins on their faces and like

(47:16):
the abandon for a minute,because we're not in like deep,
like sexy territory, they'rejust so happy for a moment.
And God, we need that in thismovie because it's all downhill
from there.
It is all downhill.
And then they end kneeling inan homage to the Broadway show.
I mean, what more?
Could I always get more ofthis?
Always, but like in thiscontext and in this rating and

(47:38):
in this film, what more could Iask for?

Her delivery of the laugh into the it's just for
the first time, I finally feelwicked, which is such a trap of
a line in the stage, likebecause it has such the ability
to fall in a false way and justfeel like you're saying the name
of the thing.

And the fact that they're kissing, and then
like they both laugh, and likeFiyero's laughing too.
And he's like, What?
Like what?

It was it was perfect, and honestly, it was
perfect.

And we and I had talked to Conor about this
line before we saw the movie,and I was like, Conor, like I
need I need this line to beperfect, and he was like, It's
it's going to be perfect.
And as soon as she said it, yougrabbed me, and I was just
like, I was like, Yeah, they didit.
They they did it because itfelt like such a tribute to the
way that Edina originallybecause it's hers, hers was so

(48:32):
much like that of just likebeing laughing and being like,
it's this like it's this privatemoment.

Yes, and it's it's kind of that thing of like
when you are comfortable, whenyou are with someone that you
trust, you indulge yourselfthose moments of like kind of
cringe.
And that's what she does, whereshe's just like, I'm letting
it, I'm letting it out, I'mletting someone else see the
deep feelings that I have,however ridiculous they might

(48:58):
even be.

Yes, yes, and the build of all of it into that
really because you know, AlfredBen Fiyero don't get a ton of
time.
And in this version of thestory specifically, more so,
even though a lot of it is thesame from the stage show, I
think in this version of thestory specifically, you really
need to believe that this istrue love between the two of
them and they must be together.

(49:20):
Otherwise, her leaving Glindain the relationship we've
created in this film justdoesn't, it's it doesn't make
total sense.
And I think because the songwas allowed to build in that way
and she was vulnerable likethat at the end of it, you're
like, I've seen thisrelationship grow over the
course of three and a halfminutes.
These are two people that needto be together.

Yes.
And I would also just say,like, having seen the double
feature of it, you do get toappreciate how much more Fiyero
and Elphaba have together, likelittle moments that they have
together that solidify thisbeing like an actual love.
From the scene, from theirintroductory scene to the little

(50:04):
moments that they have indancing through life of like he
sees her in the library andwaves, and she's like over it.
From him and Ozdust, that's it.
Yeah, from him and Ozdustwitnessing her dancing from the
train platform.
Like there, people who are likethis romance feels like it's

(50:24):
coming out of nowhere.
I can kind of appreciate whereyou might see that if you're
going in just to part two,really not having a recollection
of part one.
But again, this is this is acase for writing part one into
this.
It's it's fleshed out more thanmany romances that you get in
cinema.
Like it's there.
I agree.

And yet I was thinking about how I'm like, I
can't believe I'm still soobsessed with this pairing.
I mean, I've been obsessedsince like 10.
I'm in my 30s.
How does that even work?
And I was thinking about like,you know, when I was younger, I
was into, I was definitely intothe idea of like, you know, it's
like the hot guy, the nerdygirl, someone seeing you in a
different way than other peoplesee you.

(51:05):
That was what resonated with mewhen I was younger.
And then, you know, as I'mgetting into like my older
teens, my 20s, I'm like, oh,forbidden love, obsessed.
Seeing it as a as a fully grownadult, I'm like, oh, this is
true love because he will puthimself on the line for her to
the death.

Yeah.

He will give up every piece of safety,
privilege, all of it in order toprotect her, in order to have
her.
Yes.

It's so good.

It's so good.
I'm so sorry.

I think we need to move on from
"As Long As You're Mine" becauseotherwise we could probably do
an entire episode just on"As Long As You're Mine".

I will never move on from
"As Long As You're Mine".
Let's move on.
Let's talk about Nessa and Boq.
How about that?
And like "Wicked Witch of theEast" and all of that.
We again, another thing that weknew was going to be different
in advance, just because we knewthat Marissa Bode had had a
hand in changing the, you know,Nessa's ultimate wish in the
stage musical is I don't want tobe in this wheelchair anymore.
I want to be able to walk.
That's gonna fix everything.

(52:07):
And Marissa Bode's like, no,absolutely, 10 out of 10.
So I was always excited for howthey were going to change that.
And then again, we saw how theywere going to change it in the
marketing materials.

Yeah.

Why?

We didn't need to.

Yeah, we didn't need that.
Nope.

Yeah.

So we knew that was coming.
Um, it was still very enjoyableto find out that what she's
looking for is to feel the waythat she felt in school, back at
the Ozdust.
I mean, relatable.
That's relatable.
And now everything that Elphabadoes being so tied to not only
gravity, but also the bringingin the very heavy and important

(52:46):
theme of your heart's desire.
Bringing we have we touched onit in part one with Glinda
writing, you know, I hope youget your heart's desire.
But now it's like, and thisbecame a part of the
conversation online as itpertains to the slippers.
Because people are wondering,okay, how is Dorothy gonna get
home?

And it's like they're enchanted, they are
imbued completes the plot hall.

Put it on, yeah, put it on, and you can
have access to your heart'sdesire.
Love it.

Yeah, I think that was so cleverly, cleverly
done.
And I think the addition of ascene with her really take or
really taking the Nessa scene inthe show and breaking it apart
a bit, so that we see Boq andNessa, we see him make a first
ask to leave, and then we get tosee some of the ruthlessness of

(53:35):
Nessarose, which we don't getto see in the stage musical at
all.

They reference it, they just reference it in a
passing line.

Yeah, you don't you don't get to see any of the
consequences of it to see it andthen have Boq at the train
station, all of thatinteraction, then him back in
her in her care new costume andeverything.
I think that really beefed upher her moment, hers and Boq's
in a way that was really, reallymeaningful, so that the

(54:04):
trajectory of both of thosecharacters, you know, they just
had a little bit more to arc,you know?

Yeah, and it's so interesting.
I think the the the otherchange that's interesting is
what we established in part one,which is Elphaba and Neseros
being adamant that people don'thelp Neseros.
She's completely comp, she cando everything on her own.
In the stage musical, part ofthe song of Wicked Witch of the
East, Neseros things all toElphaba, all of my life have

(54:31):
depended on you.
How do you think that feels?
And obviously that doesn't workfor this version anymore.
So I I thought it was reallyinteresting that the change was
Elphaba saying, But you don'twant me to help you.

And then her saying, but I do now.
And honestly, the way that shesays it, I'm like, because it's
there's an anger to it, and theanger is directed at Elphaba,
but also like at herself.

Yeah.
And it's almost like if she hadif she had read it like, but I
do now, you'd be like, Oh, okay.
But I love that she emphasizednow because it's also like it's
a little bratty.

It's bratty.

It's like, well, I do now.

Which is something that is very true for
that character.
We see it just like the waythat she speaks to Elphaba,
where she's just like, I whenElphaba was like, I shouldn't
have sprouted off like that, andshe's just like, no, you
shouldn't have.
And like she does it in a kindway, but like even her don't say
another word about Glenn, likeshe she tends to be down on the
side.
She shuts her down all the timein a way that it makes sense

(55:29):
that this character would thenget to a point where she's
saying, I want help now, andyou're not here for me.
Like, what the fuck?

And I would have been down with it was
perfectly fine as dialogue, butI would have been totally down
with that being musicalized.
But I actually missed it in thestrangest way, like kind of
like a prelude to the rest ofthe song.

But they kind of changed that to the that night
at the Ostas.
Yeah.
Because then that becomes thethe Wicked Witch of the East
theme that carries through.

And how, man, I think I mean, I know this
music like the back of my hand,but one of the earliest pieces
of the score that you could getonline was Wicked Witch of the
East when she when she isfloating.
Didn't put two and two togetherthat that's the music from the
Ozdust Ballroom.
Didn't realize.
And then I was like, oh my god.

Brilliant.
Brilliant.

Brilliant.
And another thing that Jon M.
Chu had always been um teasingwas like this kind of following
the universal, you know,tradition of monster movies, and
now seeing Ethan Slater'sperformance as Boq spoiler, the
Tin Man.
Yep.

Yeah, that was full the shining coming through
with that act.
Terrifying.

Like terrifying.
And it's like, and I just lovewhen he's got basically all the
same dialogue as he and andsinging parts as he does in the
stage show, but just actuallytaking things literally that's
in this text that really is justso good that you can like to
me, it's like much in the sameway that you do with Shakespeare
of like literally, what is thischaracter saying and what does

(57:09):
that actually mean?
This guy has no heart.
How is someone without a heartgoing to act like that?

Yeah.

He's scary AF.

Scary AF.
Ethan Slater fucking fuckingkilled it.

Killed it.

I think if I could do anything, I would add
another Nessa scene, or even addNessa to like a moment, like
maybe she's called into theEmerald City, and like we see
her at the celebration in umEveryday More Wicked or
whatever.
Like she's there, like she'sbeen brought there, and she's
got like the threat of like thewizard and Morrible like over

(57:47):
her, or even if like she's thereat thank goodness, which
they've now placed inMunchkinland at the opening of
the Yellowbrick Road.

Right.
Why wouldn't she be there?

She could be there, but then that would mess
up Boq finding out aboutFiyero's engagement.
So that's why they weren'tthere.

Got it.
Right.
But I would love to see her,because we we have gotten rid of
the line from the musical, I'man unelected official.
I would love to see herstruggle with being forced to do
this, feeling the pressure togo along with things to prove
that she isn't like Elphaba.
Like, that's good shit.
It's good shit.
It's good.
And like, uh, the other thingliving in my head rent-free, is

(58:26):
going back to Boq, the Tin Man,is him looking up at Glinda
during March of the WitchHunters.
Pardon me.

That's one of those things where it's like
they've left a moment in therefor us as an audience that
whatever we're bringing, eachtime we watch it, we can decide.
Does she recognize him?
Does she not?

Like, is there something in between where
she's like, I feel like I knowthat?

Yes.
Is there is there something inhim where it's like he's is he
recalling what it feels like tohave a heart in looking at her?
Or is the way that he's lookingat, does it feel nothing
anymore?

Such as rage.

Like, yeah, what there's so many reads.

It's so somebody online pointed out, and
and again, this movie is sobrilliant.
Maybe we can just find thingsthat they were like, oh, I we
weren't even trying to do that,but that works too.
In Wizard of Oz, the Tin Mansings, Picture Me a Balcony, and
like talking about like callingup to a woman on the balcony.
Hello.

Bye-bye.

Hello.
Oh my.
That and once I read that, Iwas like, this moment is ever is
everything.

Yeah.

And it just like Tori from the Oz Vlog made
a really great video talkingabout just like, oh my, in this
core group of friends, like wecould have avoided all of this
heartache.
All of their fatal flaw is justthat they can't be honest with
each other.

Yes.

And it was just like felt very distilled in
that stare.

Which low key makes me so sad that they cut
the scene between Boq andElphaba at the train station,
where he literally says, Oh, Imisunderstood.
I thought we were being honest.

Caroline Aimetti (01:00:00):
A hundred percent.

Conor Perkins (01:00:00):
Where it's like, and then he's like, okay, our
friend group, we're not beinghonest with each other.
We're not honest with eachother.
And it literally leads to thedownfall of every single one of
them.

Yep.
And then I really enjoy thatNessero says to Elphaba, like, I
know why you're going to thewedding.
You're trying to, you're tryingto get to Fiyero.
And it might feel a little bitlike, did people pick up on
that?
Elphaba's very subtle.
But if we had kept that scene,it would have been like, no,
everybody in the friend grouphas picked up on some sort of
vibe, which is then interestingbecause it just would tie even

(01:00:29):
more into Glinda's, like, I hearnothing, I see nothing.
I'm pretending this isn'thappening.
If everybody else in the groupis like, you're into Fiyero.

Oof.

Yeah, that scene, bring it back.
Director's cut.

Director's cut.
Director's cut.
One six-hour long film.
That's I love it.
The one thing that I want totalk about, because this also
doubles as like something thatis always on my mind is the
cyclone scene.

Oh, yeah.

We don't get this at all in the stage musical.
It's always implied that ithappens, but it's never outright
shown.
Going from"As Long As You're Mine" into
that shot of those curtainslifting up.
And that I could watch MichelleYeoh.

So good.

Summon Cyclones forever.
It is exquisite.
The visuals, everything thatILM, Industrial Light Magic, has
done, living my brain rent-freeis the image.
It's the wide shot of the stormclouds gathering over the
Emerald City.
And then you see the very, verythin wisp funnel of the cyclone

(01:01:36):
start to form, and then touchdown and just and listen, y'all,
that in 4DX was the shit.
Also, watching the funnel moveacross to Munchkinland, like
starting in the Emerald City andcutting across the tulip fields
towards Munchkinland of like itis very targeted.

(01:01:56):
Like it's not just she summonedit in Munchkinland.
She summoned it there and shesent it that way.

So fucking good.
Also enjoy again, something wecan do on film, which is that
Elphaba's visions are becomingvery like full sensory
experiences.
So she like is they're gettingstronger.
The only note that I have aboutthem is that Elphaba's visions
are first person, except for theone.

(01:02:25):
I just don't like when thingsget spoiled in this, I guess,
because she has a vision of thefinal exit of her and Fiyero
from Oz.
Number one, I wish we hadn'tseen that because if you know
the story, you know what it was.
And obviously I know it'scoming, but I don't want to see
what it looks like because Ididn't know we were gonna, they
were gonna be going into thedesert.
They could have gone throughthe tunnel.
I didn't know where they weregonna go.

(01:02:45):
I don't want to see it.
I don't.
But also, why was she seeingthat vision in third person?
All of her other visions, likewhen she sees Dr.
Dillamond in the cage in inpart one, she has first person
visions.
And I love that.
She like is like inhabitingeither herself or somebody else.
Why was she seeing that fromafar?
I didn't, it didn't make senseto me.

(01:03:05):
And it kind of just spoiled thevisual, which is one of the
final visuals of the wholemovie.

Yeah.

You know, but yes, I love that she's getting
this like full sensory vision ofthat.

Oh, and then Nessa just screaming for Boq,
trying to bring him inside.

Yeah.
I also really enjoyed thefourth time that I saw it.
I was seeing it with less of ait's fucking ridiculous.
Like it's a normal thing.
I know.

This movie hasn't even been on a week.
And I the fourth time.

You know what really hit me the fourth time?
Um, I was seeing it with a moreof a it wasn't like the die
hard fans crowd that we werewith in the city.
I loved the immediate when youcut to the windows of Dorothy's
house and hearing people belike, like, oh my god, it's
happening.
Like Dorothy's here.
Yes.

And then also I love because I was watching the
Oz Vlog, Tori, and she was like,the fact that the curtains are
the same blue gingham, whichwould have been very period
appropriate of someone in a poorhome that they would use the
same fabric as their curtains toalso make the dress brilliant.

Yes.
Brilliant, brilliant,brilliant.
Yep.

Any other new things added to it that we
should talk about?

Well, I think we have to talk about, let's
talk about the Grimmerie andlike magic and like baby Glinda.
If we can, if we can make it.

We can.

Okay.

Baby Glinda.

Baby Glinda again.
See, this is another thing.

This is another thing that you really appreciate
in the double feature in theduality of it, of how the
flashback to young Elphabahappens more or less at the same
exact time in the first filmthat the flashback to our other
hero, young Glinda, happens inthe second film.
Just like beautifully done,reveals some new things about

(01:05:06):
the character.
Again, things that I think alot of Glindas on Broadway and
the West End and national tourshave tried to imbue into their
Glindas or given theirbackstories to motivate certain
things, but of this conditioningthat she has received, not out
of harm or any sort of illintent, but from a parent who

(01:05:29):
sees their child wantingsomething so much, but it's just
not for them.
And then redirecting them andbeing like, everyone loves you,
and that's all you'll ever need.
Like watching the frustration,the heartbreak of that child be
like, I want to be magical, andI'm not.

Every time she says that, I am no good.

Because that was all of us.

Yes.

It was all of us.
That was That was all of us.
That was me at the freakingEpcot Tapestry of Dreams parade,
believing with my whole heartthat when I made that wish, it
was actually gonna come true andit was magic.

Oh, a hundred percent.
And then even and now I've seena lot of people, like actors,
resonate with this because nowas an adult, yes, for me it was
like I believed magic was realand I just wanted to be magical,
but now it's like it's justlike the dream I want to be,
yeah.
Like I want to be this likenaturally talented, amazing

(01:06:27):
person, and it feels like I'mnot.

Where it all comes easy for me and it feels
like I'm not, and I'm not, and Ihave to for that hurts.

It hurts, it hurts.

And then like to see all of your friends like
believe it and then have someonecomfort you and just be like,
okay, well, there's a way thatwe can look at this and just
sort of like, how do we reframethis?
And then you're just like, butit doesn't take away what I
feel, yes, and then thatreframing becomes an identity in
and of itself, where you'relike, I'm gonna push down the

(01:06:57):
thing that I want and go wholehog into this other thing to
cover up how deeply I want thisthing.
And I'm like, and that is thecharacter of Galinda slash
Glinda.
She is so at odds with wantingsomething so deeply and
genuinely, and that is like inthe first film when she was

(01:07:18):
like, and it is my intention tostudy sorcery.
Like you can't.

She says it's my heart's desire.

That's what she wants.
And when that doesn't happen,it activates something in her of
okay, well, if I can't havethat, everyone will love me, and
that'll be enough.

Yeah, and I'm gonna try to have literally
everything else if I can't havethat to fill that hole.

And what ends up breaking it is Elphaba gives her
her heart's desire in the firstfilm when she makes that
decision to make Madame Morribletrain Galinda with her, she's
giving Galinda her heart'sdesire.
And it's like she's the onlyperson actually that has ever

(01:08:04):
believed in Galinda'spossibility of being able to do
real magic.
It's really, really, reallybeautiful of like how much
Elphaba, you know, doesn'treally, she doesn't really give
a shit whether or not Glinda cando magic.
But she's like, if you want to,I'll believe in your ability to
want to do it, as opposed toother people in her life who

(01:08:26):
have told her, Yeah, well, ifbut if you don't have it, let's
just find something else to do.

Mm-hmm.
And that's why another linethat has been living in my head,
rent-free, is when Elphabagives her the Grimmerie at the
end and is like, you gotta takethis now.
And she's like, Well, you knowI can't read it.
Yeah, you know I can't read it.
And the way that Ari says it isso full of like shame.
It's shame, yeah.
It's sadness.
And a lot of people believethat that admission is actually

(01:08:53):
what could potentially beallowing Glinda to have access
to the again, depending on howyou read the final shots of the
film.
If you believe that part of thereason that the Grimmerie is
opening is because of Glinda'sown alignment with like her
spirit and her decision toactually be good, if you if you
read it that way, her admittingto her shortcomings and being

(01:09:15):
honest is part of what allowsthe Grimmerie to open for her.

Yeah.

And that's like that's good.

But then also Elphaba's response, which is
you'll have to learn.
Where it's like, great, so itdoesn't come naturally to you.
Fine, you can learn it, whichis also kind of Elphaba's
argument about the whole, youknow, being a part of a
resistance or whatever.
If it doesn't come naturally toyou to resist, to get on the

(01:09:45):
broom at the end of"Defying Gravity", that's okay.
But that doesn't excuse youfrom having to learn to do it.
Like you still have to learn.
We have to, yeah, we have tochange things.
We can't let good just be aword.

And that and that's why I love with the
Grimmerie flipping open.

Yeah, let's talk about that.

Yeah.
First of all, I mean just likethe whole idea of like, are they
have they always been connectedby the Grimmerie?
Like it's this two book book,you know?

Like duality people.

Again, like it's is there something because
listen, the prophecy says therewill come one with a power to
read the Grimmerie again, butit's like this story about these
two wise ones.
But then it that's why it'slike I I love every single read
of the Grimmerie flipping openat the end.

I love that it's Glinda finally is aligned in her
spirit and aligned, and now sheis going to be able to magic
and she's the most authenticversion of herself in a way that
like you could make the readthat when Glinda finally becomes
the most authentic version ofherself, she's her pinkest that
she's been, and all of that, andlike, and that uh allows her to
open it in the same way thatlike Elphaba has never not been

(01:10:59):
able to be authentic becauseit's not been afforded her
because of what she looks likeand everything like that.
So, of course, the grimmary isgonna open immediately for her
because she can't be anythingother than herself.
Like, that's a great read onthat moment, and I love that
read.

I also was reading, again, probably
overthinking it, but the waythat Cynthia said for both of us
in the stage show, I'm like,for me and you.
She leaned in and looked at herin a way that she was trying to
be like, for me and Fiyero, youhave like it's up to you now
for both of us.

Oh.

To me, it felt so much like the two of us need
you to take it now.
Not just me and you.

See, I I still got the like me and you, like
for both of us.

She like leaned in and looked at her
like, I'm never gonna tell you,but I'm gonna hint it at you.

I did get that where it was like, you know,
this is my clue.
I'm giving you a clue.

I'm giving you a clue.

Yeah.

Yeah, because it's so painful for her, as she
says later, to not be able totell her that she's like, I'm
trying to tell you.

Yeah.

But anyway, back to the grimary flipping
open.
I love the read that it's likeElphaba is giving it over to
her.
And that's kind of what'shappening there.
I love that it's Elphaba beinglike, I'm trying to send you a
message that I'm here.
I'm okay.

Yes.
Yeah, I really like that onebecause there are some people,
there are some people who arelike, Oh, but there is no
rainbow in the sky.
No, there the rainbow is in thesky when she when she's walking
up there.
You could say maybe the rainbowis Elphaba sending the rainbow
because it appears in thewestern sky because the sun is
is setting, and that's the sameplace that Elphaba flies off to

(01:12:31):
at the end of "Defying Gravity"from the same shot.
And if Elphaba is on one sideof the rainbow and Glinda's on
the other, that means thatElphaba has gone further into
the desert through the west ofthe Vinkus.
So she left Kiamo Ko andcontinued to head west.
So it you could say maybe therainbow is Elphaba sending a

(01:12:55):
sign, or you could say maybe theGrimmerie opening is the sign.
I like the thing becausethere's also there's after the
Grimmerie opens, and you getAri's amazing sort of like shock
and awe, and so many emotionsrunning through her face, where
I feel like there's even a pieceof it of her being like, I've

(01:13:15):
never seen this open like thisfor anyone except Elphaba, like
not even Madame.
It's never opened on its ownbefore for someone.
I like that read, but then it'salso justified by the way when
it cuts back to Elphaba, shegives this sort of like smirk,
like smile, and then turns backto Fiyero and walks off, like
almost as if she did something.

Yeah, and I'm because some people read it as
like she did, and that was herbeing like, I'm disconnecting
myself from it.
Now she's got it.
I'd like to believe that shecan ever and will always be able
to communicate things.
Again, this two-piece book willalways be able to do that.
And then that was her moment ofbeing like, I'm still here.
You have to learn.
Yeah, open up the book, girl,get to it.

(01:13:57):
You can do it.
Like, yeah, you gotta learn.
You gotta start somewhere.
And I'm almost like, what ifthere's the and I don't
obviously like Glinda not beingable to do magic is a key part
of the story.
I don't believe that she canreally.
However, who's to say that therainbow doesn't come from her in
some way?
You know, like when she'sfeeling deeply, because in both
of the times that it appears,she's feeling deeply.

(01:14:19):
She's wanting something so, sobadly.
Just like Dorothy so badlywants to go over the rainbow.
What if it's just manifestingin a way that she doesn't even
realize?
Which she's so badly wantingElphaba.
She's so badly wanting to beable to do magic.
What if she made the rainbow?

Yeah, maybe.

You know?

But I do think one of the things that's really,
really cool is if you look atwhat spell it opens to.

God bless the internet.
God bless the internet.
I mean, seriously, y'all.
Seriously.

Because uh so good.
People, I God, I love them.
I just love fans.
On one of the on one of thecopies of the Grimmerie, I
believe one of the notebooks orsomething, there is a there's
like an alphabet key of thesymbols and the markings.
Someone has taken that and theyhave taken freeze frames of
different spells that the bookhas opened to and translated the
spells.
And y'all, they all are fullass spells in English, the

(01:15:15):
transformation spell of the theflying monkeys.

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

It's good shit.

It's a good spell, like where it's just like
yeah, but this is a healingspell.
It has the two hands and it'sit's a healing spell.
And that could be heal Oz, thatcould be heal yourself, it
could also be her showing thespell because the other place
that we saw the hands is in theFiyero spell.

(01:15:42):
It could also be Elphaba sayingthis is I use this to save
Fiyero.
So many reads on that scene,and they're leaving it
intentionally muddy andambiguous this way.
And I'm like, because all ofthese reads are valid, they all
work, but I don't think it's anyone thing to say it's any one

(01:16:05):
definitive thing, I think woulddo what everyone who made this
film it would be doing them alla disservice.

I totally agree.

Okay, so is that all of the new stuff that was
added?

I mean, probably not, but we just tap
it.

We have we're gonna keep going.
What are we moving on to next?

Um, we've kind of touched it.
Um, just moments that areliving in our head rent-free.
Well, what have we not talkedabout?
I have a couple of things, butI mean, I could go on forever.

I mean, the big one is the closet.

The closet.

So, y'all, if you don't know this already, which
I don't know how, but after theysing "For Good" in Kiamo Ko.
The most heartbreaking scene Ithink I've seen in like all of
cinema happens, and they'rehugging, Elphaba's crying, and
then she kind of pats Glinda andis like, Come on, come with me.

(01:16:56):
And then she's like, No one canknow that you were here.

And she takes her into the room ahead of where
and they run up the steps, andit reminds you of when they're
running on the steps at theOzdust, and you're like, What
the fuck happened?

Again, that's the duality, people.
Like, literally, it'severywhere.
It should be studied, and Iprobably will study.
I'll write a paper about it.
I don't care.

We're getting our PhDs, yeah.

Um, and then she puts her in a closet.
Elphaba puts Glinda in acloset, and she goes, You stay
here.
And then she goes, shewhispers, everything is going to
be fine.
I love you.
And then Glinda just like takesa beat and chokes back, and
then she says, I love you too.
And then they shut the door,and we get this incredible shot

(01:17:39):
of the two on either side withthe city.

I can't I can't cry about this anymore.
Bad enough.

Letting everything out.
It's brilliant, it's awful,it's horrendoble and perfect,
and was born out of animprovisation in rehearsal.
Jon Chu didn't call cut andjust let Cynthia and Ari keep

(01:18:05):
going.
And they were so embodied intothese characters that they did
this whole thing and mimed thisdoor shutting and this moment.
And he said in interviewsalready where he's like, it it
was like some sort of divinething, like God was showing me
something that needed to be inthis film through the two of

(01:18:28):
them.
There is too much literalmagic, I believe, that is
happening in and around thismovie between Cynthia and Ari's
voices literally lining up onwavelengths.
Like, it's just there's toomuch fate and destiny happening
in this film for me to like notbelieve in magic.

(01:18:49):
And it's kind of like the best.
And I'm gonna start crying.
And like what we what we need,like this movie makes me believe
in magic again because magicisn't something that is
unattainable, it's created, andit's created by people who care
deeply.

(01:19:09):
And there are so many peoplewho worked on this film who
cared so deeply about what theywere doing and understood what
it meant to people, andunderstood what these characters
mean to people and therelationships mean to people,
that it created magic, likeactual magic.

(01:19:30):
Things started just happening,and that is why this movie is
perfect, like to me.
That's why I wouldn't want tochange anything.
Yeah, while I certainly havethings that I would want to
change, I wouldn't want tochange anything, and I can't
disrespect this by I don't know,even being too critical about

(01:19:53):
it because I'm just likesomething else is happening, and
that's kind of been true of themusical itself always is like
it didn't win the Tony Award,but something else and something
more meaningful was happeningwith this, and there's a reason
why this show is still playingon Broadway.
There's a reason why The Wizardof Oz is a story that we
continue to tell, and it'sbecause it's not, I don't know,

(01:20:18):
whatever happens this awardseason, it almost doesn't matter
because it's not about theawards for this story.
We got something better, we gotsome we got magic, and we got
hope.
And that's worth something tome.
All right.
Now that I finish preaching,fuck you, bitch.

(01:20:41):
So that's the closet scene.

Um I mean, um that's living in my head went
free.
Well, I agree with everythingthat you're saying, and that's
how I feel.
I mean, I feel exactly the sameway, and like just having that
the final shot be an homage tothe Broadway poster.

(01:21:04):
It's just like I'm gonna losemy shit.

Girl me too, grow me too.

I mean, I know that like my experience and
your experience, like I knowthat we we're not having like
individual, like uniqueexperiences with this, but it
just it just means so much tothat.
Yes, whatever.
Like, we're all such huge fansof it.
We'll always have things thatwe can think of, we'll always
have things we can point out.
But to know that this finallymade it to a film and it was

(01:21:36):
done with so much love and careis like such a it's so
important.
And like I don't know, justlike in a in a time when it's
like, and I think like Cynthiaand Ari have talked about this
when it comes to like even likethe press tour, like in a time
when it's so cool not to care.
This has just totally likeblown that apart.

Yeah.

And I'm so, so grateful for that.
And that and and what we weretalking about earlier, where
it's like what what Tori fromthe Oz Vlog said of like they
cared about the fans.

They cared about the fans, they didn't have to.
A media conglomerate like NBCUniversal, they don't they don't
have to give a shit about thesmall fans, about the
influencers, about about peoplewho have been keeping Oz
memorabilia alive in a very,very like niche corner of the
internet.
They didn't have to reach outto them and be like, hey, you're

(01:22:28):
part of this.

Yeah.

But they did because they were like, no,
you're actually who this is for.

Yeah.

I think that's and that's what the final shot
tells us.
And it's something that they'vebeen saying the whole time of
like, we've been always beenthinking of the fans, we've
always been thinking of thepeople that this has meant the
world to.
And I'm just like, oh, yeah,yeah, you kind of have to say
that.
That final shot is like, no, wewere telling you the truth.
Like, this was for you.

Yeah.

And it's like it felt like someone coming through
on a promise in that finalshot.
Like, yeah.

I did.
Fuck.
Um, and it's obvious.
I mean, all of all of that isso evident in literally every
single aspect of of this moviein both of these films, that I
couldn't even begin to, Icouldn't even begin to count all
the ways.
We would need five more hours.
Yeah.
But I really was, I don't know.

(01:23:22):
There was something about it,it's embodied in everybody.
I mean, I mean, let's for 20seconds, like Jonathan Bailey,
like, yes, he's expanded a bitin this, but like he doesn't
have a ton of time to accomplishwhat he needs to accomplish.
And God, he did, he put hisentire heart and soul into that.
Like the look that he givesElphaba when it's like, it's
time, you have to go, killed me,killed me.

(01:23:43):
But I mean, Ari, Cynthia,Jonathan Bailey, every single
person, just every single actorwas just giving in everything.
And I'm just like so, sograteful.
Um God, I need to like getthrough this.

I mean, like, I I know, we're so ridiculous, so
stupid.

This is so dumb.
This is literally so dumb.

Folks, we acknowledge, we know, we know,
we know what this, we know whatthis looks like.
We're not we're not thatdeleted.

I know.
Um, but I mean, uh both ofthese characters, all of these
characters mean so much toeverybody, but I mean Elphaba
especially just like means somuch to so many people in so
many different ways.
And like the way that likeCynthia, I feel like held all of
that, but also like didn't andwas like, I I can't hold all of
that, and I'm here to like dowhat I need to do.
And like thinking about thefact that like she was

(01:24:36):
performing "No Good Deed" aloneon like an empty sound stage,
and like the whole thing gotCGI'd in after, and like the
place that she had to go to dothat.
I I'm just like that is likethat's like why I just like that
is why I want to do this.
That's why I want to beinvolved in this.

(01:24:56):
It's like people summoning likethe most concentrated version
of their humanity with theirimagination is like that's
that's magic to me.
Yeah, and that that number, I Ithere are no words for no good.
There are no words.
Um there, there's actually II'm not even gonna talk about it

(01:25:18):
because there's nothing to say.
I mean, it just shook me to myfucking core.
It was perfect.
But I even think about I was soimpacted by the trapdoor scene
when when Fiyero comes back forher.
Because that's pretty much whatit is in this the stage show.
And it can be easy maybe to seethat scene as a point towards

(01:25:43):
we're in the last final momentsof the movie and we're just
moving towards it.
And the fact that she there'slike a tear rolling out of her
eye when she looks at him isjust like to me, as such a deep
fan of the show and thischaracter, it's just like you're
just really, you're really init.
Like you're really, reallythinking about like what would
that feel like?

She's lived it.

That was like everything.
Yeah, that was it.
That was everything that I Icould have, I didn't even know
that I needed from that.
Cause again, it has to be likeshe's going to never speak to
Glinda again for this life andthis person.
It's gotta be fucking worth it.
And it is.

And as much as that was the moment that I feel
like you needed, the moment thatI needed, and was I'm so
desperate to act, is all of thefinal stuff that we get with
Glinda over an incredible score.
The score lives in my head,rent-free.
The score for this film is amasterpiece.
How they found new themes,interwove them, introduced them

(01:26:44):
to us when we didn't evenrealize it, teased out different
pieces of other songs.
But this final scene withGlinda where she's back in,
she's back in her apartment.
She has the bottle, and sheputs it next to the same pink
light from"What is this Feeling?"?
And it just feels like a littlepiece of their dorm room right

(01:27:06):
there.
And then there's the grimary.
What I needed was to see her goback to that tower where
everything happened, where likeshe wishes that maybe she could
have made another choice, and tojust watch her go through the
journey and go up the stairsagain and just like feel that I
needed her alone.

(01:27:27):
I needed to see her alonebecause that's what that's what
this is at the end of the day.
It's Glinda lives her lifebelieving that every person that
she's ever loved the most isgone.
Nessa, Boq, Fiyero, Elphaba Ba.

Yeah.

And to just see her like feeling the loneliness
and persevering through it andgoing up those stairs and then
looking out, and like, I don'tknow, it's just I needed that.
I needed that.
And we got it.
Because it was real.
It's real.
I'm like, what would what wouldGlinda be doing?

(01:28:05):
Like all these questions thatwe ask ourselves as actors on
the stage of like, what wouldthey be doing in this time?
What would they be doing here,or what would this look like?
Or if we didn't have theconstraints of the stage, how
would they feel that?
We got to do it.

Yeah.
The experience of Wicked beingon film, I mean, has recaptured.
I I remember clearly the daythat I saw Wicked for the first
time.
I didn't sleep the nightbefore.
And I remember it had not beenspoiled for me yet.
So when the fucking scarecrowcame out and knocked on the
floor, my I was like, I I leftmy body.

(01:28:42):
I was like, what's happening?

Yeah.

And and this and this film experience,
because of like the little thenew things and the surprises and
the care has allowed me to feelrecapture that feeling, feel
like a kid again.
And and and it's funny, likespeaking of that, that last,
those last moments with Glinda,how crazy is it that when we got
the first moments, the firstimages from the film, that's

(01:29:04):
what we were seeing.

We were that's what we were seeing.
We were seeing the last momentof both films.

Yeah, and that thinking about that really, I
guess to move towards wrappingthis up, which is so sad, but
like really made me think abouteven like between me and you,
just like how much we've likewaited for this movie and wanted
this movie and been excited forthis movie, and like it's been
something that has gotten usboth through a lot.

(01:29:31):
Yeah, and I know that that'sthe case for so many, so many
people.
And I know that like this partof it's gotta end.
And but like wicked, but wickednever ends.

No, no, it doesn't.

And listen, I got this poster the first time I
saw Wicked, I was 10 years old.
I literally have lived a wholeass life.
I'm a grown fucking woman, andit's this is just this means the
same thing to me as it alwayshas, and like it always.
Will.
And like we've we've just like,as you can see, like we've had

(01:30:05):
so much fun buying the merch.
Where you pull up your waterbottle.

We've got the awalas.

We got the awallas.
We got the cake worthies.
We got like the cops, themunchkin tin, the advent
calendar.
The advent calendar, theglitter jersey.

The candles, the candles, everything.
But yeah, so wicked, it doesn'tend.
This part, I think, does haveto end.

It's really, it's genuinely like it is sad.
I know it's so theater kid andit's so things have to end to
have meaning.
It's so special that for usthat it was like tied to this
period in our lives, which islike, even though even one year
has passed, this feels like thepoint in their lives that
Elphaba and Glinda are at in"For Good".

(01:30:55):
Of like, oh, this is the we'rein the real world now.
And like to have be been ableto like grow up with this in
that way and like see actorsaround our age doing this is I
feel so grateful that we arelike at the that they're our
age.

There are age.
Yes.
To see that that Ariana Grandewas us seeing this show.

Yeah.

And now she gets to do it.

Yeah.

I'm like, it she feels like all of us.
Like seeing her do this, itfeels like all of us.
And that's one of the things Ikeep having when I watch
"For Good" is I just keep seeingin my brain, it becomes meta
for me where I start seeing ayounger Ariana Grande and a
younger Cynthia Riva.
And I just like, I want to goback in time and when I tell
them I'd be like, it's you two.

(01:31:41):
It's it's you two.
Like you get to be the ones todo it.
And like the Ari who who gotoffered the role, who says, I'm
gonna take such good care ofher.
And I'm like, You did.
I want to go to that Ari and belike, You did.
You did.
We all we all loved it.
We loved you.
It just it makes it wickeddoesn't end.

(01:32:02):
I think it just changes alittle bit.
And so speaking of things thatare gonna change for Wicked,
today, funnily enough, wefinally got some confirmation
from Variety.
Um, they're officiallyreporting that Universal,
Stephen Schwartz, Winnie Holzmanare actively looking into ways

(01:32:24):
to continue on in the Wicked Ozuniverse, not moving forward
with Elphaba and Glinda's storyper se, but something that is
adjunct to the story.
So I'm excited to see where theend of this era leads into a
new era of Wicked and what thatlooks like, and being able to go

(01:32:47):
into that blind because we haveno idea what it's gonna look
like.
And in some ways, that's justas exciting to me.
I cannot express what a gift ithas been to be able to be a fan
and to really.
I mean, as a performer, there'salways parts of you that are

(01:33:07):
like, God, I wish I was in thatfilm, God, I wish I was in that
show, like that sort of thing.
I don't have that with thisbecause I I am just so I'm like,
I am so lucky to be able towitness this, yeah, and that's
enough for me, and that doesn'thappen often as a performer, and
that's been such a gift, but Ithink the biggest gift of all

(01:33:30):
has been to share this with you,Caroline.
Like it just like I said to youafter we saw it and we were
parting ways.
I was like, you know, when Iread Wicked in sixth grade,
entirely too young.

Both of us just sitting there just reading
about animal sex clubs.

And when I started falling in love with the
musical, there was there werepeople who certainly liked it
who were around me, but therewas no I couldn't find anybody
who else who who got it who waslike understanding it in the way
that I was.
And and it wasn't until muchlater when I found you that I
was like, finally, like you'rethe you're the person.

(01:34:15):
And to be able to share thiswith you has been like the honor
of a lifetime.
I'm so so lucky.
So, so lucky to have my act twoElphaba, act one Glinda to my
act one Elphaba, act two Glinda.
I'm a fucking mess.

You're gonna kill me!

So thank you for being with us for this.
Um, I know this is not a Disneyfilm, but this is just as
important as any Disney film hasever been, I think, for either
of us.
And it's a joy to be able toshare it with you.
It's a joy for us to have to beable to work through these
emotions with each other andhave people who are like, hey, I

(01:35:04):
might actually want to listento that or watch it happen.
So thank you for being herewith us for all of this.

And it's so lovely, like it's so nice to, I
mean, based off of everyone'slike, we want a bonus for you

know, Wicked (01:35:18):
For Good, and like that enthusiasm is so great.
And it's helping us like evolvethis podcast, which will
obviously always be a Disneypodcast, but like that's why
we're like kind of like introingit in a new way of like, you
know, we believe that magic getsbetter with age.
Like, we really do believethat.
Yeah.
And like we just want to talkabout all of the things that

(01:35:39):
make in times like these, I meanall the time, but in times like
these and like being inadulthood and like living in the
world we're living in, like, wejust want to like focus on and
talk about the things that makeus be like, no, no, like that's
the kind of thing that makes mebelieve that magic is real.
So it's like really special tobe able to do that.

Yeah.
So if you liked this episode,please make sure that you hit
follow or subscribe whereveryou're listening or watching.
Make sure that you leave acomment, leave a written review,
and hit five stars.
We don't want you to miss outon anything.
And those comments and thosereviews are one of the best
things that you can do to helpus get seen in search results,
get pushed to other people.

(01:36:19):
And then the other great thingthat you can do is, you know,
you can share this with someone.
So find your Elphaba, find yourGlinda, find your Fiyero, give
this a share to them.
Um, someone who you want toshare wicked with or have shared
wicked with, you know, youryour good friend, your best
friend.
Sharing one wonderful, one notso short podcast episode.

(01:36:42):
So thanks for doing that.

I can't go on.
Okay, follow us on socialmedia.
Oh my God, I can't feelanymore.
We are @poorunfortunatepodcasteverywhere.
So if this is the first timeyou're joining us, please really
I do encourage you to follow uson social media just so we can
hear from you.
So we are@poorunfortunatepodcast on
Instagram, Facebook, TikTok,Threads, Blue Sky, find us

(01:37:07):
anywhere and everywhere.
DM us, comment on one of ourposts, reply to a story,
literally anything.
We just want to talk aboutWicked with you forevermore.
And if you want even more PoorUnfortunate podcasts in your
life, especially if you are newhere and you're like, give me
more.
I hope you feel like that.

I hope so too.

I hope so.
Um, please join the PoorUnfortunate Fam, which is in two
places.
It is our private Facebookgroup and it is our Discord
server.
Um, so if you want to talkabout Wicked, if you want to
connect with other people wholove Disney and Wicked, we'll
have a lengthy conversationabout Wicked in there, I am
sure.

And maybe I'll just build a channel for Wicked.

Well, like a Wicked channel.
But I mean, there's nothingmore us than that.
So that feels right to me.
Um, and it's just a fantasticway for Conor and I to know
who's out there listening, whatyou're interested in.
Like I said, is we talk aboutother things in this world that
are magical.
Like we want to hear what'smagical for you and build the
podcast around that.
So please join us because wewould love, love, love to meet

(01:38:07):
you and become friends.

And if you're looking for any poor unfortunate
podcast merch, we do have thatavailable in our shop, the Poor
Unfortunate Shop, which is poorunfortunate podcast.com/ shop.
And then, as I always say, itdoes take us a little bit of
money to keep the podcast up andrunning and coming to you.
We do have a PayPal account.
It's linked in the episodedescription and in our website
links and our social mediaaccounts.
Truly, anything that you haveto spare goes a long way for us.

(01:38:31):
It could be a dollar, fivedollars, ten dollars more than
that.
It could be a one-time donationor it could be a monthly
donation.
It all just goes right backinto the podcast, helping us
keep it free.
And to all of our monthlydonors, thank you so much.
We would not be able to do thiswithout you.
You have changed this podcastfor good.
So, yeah, we'll be back nextweek with another episode of

(01:38:57):
Caroline What's New, I believe.
And then we will be back forour 100th full-length episode.
So if you haven't alreadychecked out the Poor Unfortunate
Fam uh or checked out oursocial media for ways in which
you can be a part of the 100thepisode, please do that because
we would love to come have youwith us and celebrate.

(01:39:19):
So thank you.

Big times here at Poor Unfortunate Podcast.

Big times, lots to cry about.
All right.
So until then, the Lucas.

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