S4 E21: Daddy Issues

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caroline Aimetti (00:00):
It's giving Shrek and Fiona.

Conor Perkins (00:04):
Honestly?
Which one's Shrek and Fiona?

We would be very funny in that show.

We actually really would.

Yeah, we would.

We would.
I think I Got You Beat would

slay.
Yeah, I think I Got You Beatwould be so, it would be a slay.

It would slay.
We

just did it just now.
That was the audition.

Hello and welcome to Poor Unfortunate Podcast.
I'm Conor Perkins.

And I'm Caroline Aimetti.

This is the Disney Podcast for
Grown Ups where we shoot theshit about Disney the way that
you do with your friends.
Welcome to all of our returninglisteners and viewers.
Thank you so much for joiningus once again.
And welcome to any newlisteners or viewers.
Thank you so much for hittingplay.
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(01:35):
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So thanks for taking the timeit takes to do that.
Or you could do it right now ifyou want.

Right now.
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Right now.
Yeah, whatever.
Right now.
Comment something fun.
I dare you.
So we are now starting ourfinal cycle of season four.
So we are back to the rant andrave.
Caroline, why don't you tellpeople what we're doing?

Yes.
So this is a rant rave idea Ifeel like we've had on the shelf
for a little while.
We've always considered doing.
But then we were inspired byone of our beautiful members of
the Poor Unfortunate Fam, Carlo,who was like, you know, you
guys should totally do anepisode on Disney parents.
And we said, well, we're goingto take it off the shelf and
we're going to do exactly that.
So Conor has the rant today andhe is going to rant about some

(02:38):
not so great Disney parentsfocusing a little bit on a not
so great Disney father.
And then I'm going to take therave and I am going to rave
about an incredible Disneyfather and actually I just
realized that I'm coming back toa film that was part of our
first rant and rave of theseason so I'm bookending it in a
way so Conor why don't you telleveryone who you're going to

(03:02):
rant about today

all right oh

boy I oh boy oh boy all

right you ready for it I

have never been more ready I've been really
looking forward to this episodeand to this rant specifically
so lay it on me

alright I

don't think I'm ready I

don't think you are either but okay so
throughout the 100 plus years ofthe Walt Disney Company we have
seen some really fantasticparents in movies but every once
in a while we get a coupleparents who just low-key suck
ass and now it's easy to rantabout characters like Lady

(03:42):
Tremaine from Cinderella or BuckCluck from Chicken Little or
King Agnar from Frozen becauseit's pretty obvious that they
are directly creating trauma fortheir children.
But I've got a pair that kindof flies under the radar.
We give them a little bit of apass, I think, maybe because
they're royals or they didn'tget to raise their child

(04:04):
themselves or honestly, maybeit's just pretty privileged.
But King Stefan and hisnameless queen wife, who Disney
retroactively named Queen Leah Idon't know they kind of suck as
far as Disney parents go andI'm gonna tell you why and I'm
gonna be focused on the 1959animated Sleeping Beauty because

(04:24):
let's be honest if I were tobring in 2014's Maleficent you
know where Stefan is literallythe fucking villain it would
kind of just be too damn easyand these animated royals They
deserve to be knocked down acouple pegs.
Oh, my God.
So my sources for this areWikipedia, watching the movie,

(04:45):
my brain and personalexperiences being a child, and
also personal experiences beinga child care provider to my
godchildren.

Oh, my God.
Yes.

Those are the sources, people.
I love it.
So brace yourself.
It's a lot of opinion.
I'm going to start with somebackground information.
I've covered this backgroundinformation in previews.
because it's Sleeping Beauty.
So I'm just going to give ussome of the basic points just as
like a refresher.
It was released on January29th, 1959.
It was produced by Walt Disney,directed by Clyde Geronimi, who

(05:18):
was the supervising director,Eric Larson, Wolfgang
Reitherman, and Les Clark.
They were the sequencedirectors.
It was adapted by ErdmanPenner.
The additional story is by JoeRinaldo, Winston Hibbler, Ted
Sears, Bill Peet, Ralph Wright,and Milt Banta.
And it's based on SleepingBeauty by Charles Perrault, with
music by George Bruns and musicfrom the Tchaikovsky Ballet.

(05:40):
It stars, among others, MaryCosta as Aurora, Bill Shirley as
Prince Philip, Eleanor Audleyas Maleficent, Taylor Holmes as
King Stephen.
This was his final film role,actually.
Verna Felton as Flora and thevoice of Queen Lena.

What?

Uncredited.
Barbara Luddy as Meriwether andBarbara Jo Allen as Fauna.
The budget for the film wasapproximately $6 million and the
box office was $51.6 million.

Oh, my God.

Little plot synopsis.
Filled with jealousy, the evilwitch Maleficent curses Princess
Aurora to die on her 16thbirthday.
Thanks to Aurora's guardianfairies, she only falls into a
deep sleep that can be endedwith a kiss from her betrothed,
Prince Philip.
To prevent Philip from rescuingAurora, Maleficent kidnaps and
imprisons him.
The good fairies are the lasthope to free Philip so that he

(06:34):
can awaken Aurora.
There you go.

Thank you.

Okay.
That's all the backgroundinformation we're going to get
because I have a lot to say.
For the purposes of this rant,I'm going to be honing in on
King Stefan more so than thequeen because let's face it,
she's not really in this movie.

Yeah.

But she's not exempt from this.
Okay.
At all.
Because as parents, they commitmore often than not the
cardinal sin of parenting.
Not putting your child first.
Now, I know what you're goingto say.
But Conor, they sent theirchild away for 16 years to keep

(07:12):
her safe.
Oh, he's already passed.
They didn't invite Maleficentto the christening because who
would want the Mistress of Evilto come to an event like that?
And those things are absolutelytrue.
But listen...
There is a way to look at allof this, where nearly every

(07:32):
decision they make in this filmis motivated by their own
self-interest and not Aurora's.
And I'm looking at it that way.
When you're a parent and you'renot prioritizing your child
above all else, everything youdo kind of either boils down to
selfishness or stupidity.

(07:53):
Selfishness in that you end upusing your child as a prop to
fulfill your own personaldesires or ambitions, denying
that they are a person who hasor will grow into having agency
and individuality.
And then stupidity in thatyou're so focused on yourself
that you tend not to thinkthings through, and that can

(08:13):
cause you to make mistakes, andthen there are consequences for
your child.
Dangerous ones.
And like, let's be real,getting your infant cursed to
die by an evil sorceress fairyis pretty up there in terms of
dangerous consequences for yourkid.
So I'm going to take youthrough the movie, and we're
going to look at all of thethings King Stefan and the Queen

(08:35):
in her limited capacity do, andhow they can be read as either
selfish or stupid.

Ha ha! Great.
So

we're going to start with Aurora's christening
the curse.
We're going to kick things offwith the events of the
christening, the kingdompresentation.
So let's zoom out real quick onthis scene.
Let's put it in context becauseit's probably the most
important thing to happen tothese people.
So King Stephen and Queen Leahhave a baby, Princess Aurora.

(09:07):
They have a christening andpresentation to the kingdom in
which people from far and wide,ranging from nobility, all the
way to peasants, are invited toattend to shower the child with
gifts and praise.
It's a public event.
The christening andpresentation of a newborn royal,
that's a public event.

(09:28):
Everyone is welcome, includingKing Stephen's longtime friend
Hubert, whose son Philip isannounced to be betrothed to the
infant child, and three goodfairies show up to give some
magical gifts to the child.
And in the middle of all ofthis, Maleficent an evil fairy
and mistress of darkness, showsup via magic and sort of feigns

(09:51):
feeling slighted at not beinginvited to attend the event, to
which Meriwether, one of thefairy delegation, says that she
wasn't wanted.
At this, Maleficent, havingmade her point, starts to make
her way out when Queen Leia asksif she is offended that she was
excluded.
And Maleficent, clearlyoffended, then takes this as an

(10:14):
opportunity to to punish KingStephen, Queen Leah, and the
kingdom by cursing the child tolive a happy life, but before
the sun sets on her 16thbirthday, she will prick her
finger on the spindle of aspinning wheel and die.
And then she hits it anddisappears before King Stefan
can order his knights to seizeher.
So yeah, it's a big day.

(10:36):
A lot happens.
I think most of what KingStefan and the Queen do in this
scene leans more towards thestupid side of things.
But we've definitely got aselfish read here too.
So we're going to start withthat.
So selfish.
First off, I'm just going toget this said right out of the
gate.

Okay.

I'm not sure Stefan wanted a kid.

Oh my God.
Or

at least, I'm not sure Stefan wanted to have a
kid in order to be a father andbring a new human into the world
that he could shower with hisunconditional love and support.
No.
It seems more likely to me thathe had a kid for the appearance
of it all and to unite hiskingdom with his boy toy,
Hubert.

Yeah, he needed an heir.
Yeah,

yeah.
Literally, they're announcingthe betrothal between Philip and
Aurora the same damn day thatthey're doing the christening
and formal public presentationof the brand fucking new baby
that is where the priority isfor Stefan like literally tell
me that Huber and Stefan are notgay lovers who can't marry each

(11:44):
other because of the times thatthey're living in and they're
just doing the next best thingin making their kids marry so
they're always in each other'slives and their kingdoms are
united like am I wrong no Idon't think I am it's selfish
it's selfishness he's having akid to live out a fantasy
between him is gay lover.
Moving on.
Another thing that happens inthis scene...

(12:05):
Oh, hold on.
Hold on.

No, I know that I'm not even...
This is just the warm-up.
Let's go.

Another thing that happens in the scene that
is kind of both selfish andstupid happens after
Maleficent's arrival.
So, when Maleficent gives herwhole speech about being
distressed at not receiving aninvitation, Meriwether
interjects and says, you weren'twanted.
In this moment, Meriwether hastaken it upon herself to speak

(12:34):
for the king and the kingdom,and Stefan should have
interjected and spoken forhimself.
But instead, he takes the sortof easy way out and kind of
holds back instead of eithereating some humble pie with
Maleficent or standing hisground.
Like, you either didn't wanther or be like, you know what?

(12:54):
That was wrong of us.
We shouldn't have done that.
You gotta pick one.
You can't just do this.
Stupid.
he is being selfish by lettingMeriwether do the heavy lifting
and trying to put himself on theoutside of the conflict which
let's be clear he is very much apart of and is actively
endangering his child now thereis a deleted scene where

(13:18):
Maleficent and Stefan havedialogue back and forth in that
scene yes in that scene Stefantells Maleficent to withdraw
that sorrow Yeah.
Hmm.
Hmm.

(13:38):
Hmm.
So you can see this moment withMeriwether and Maleficent and
Stefan as being stupid becauseif we take away him being

(14:01):
selfish and staying quiet andgive him the benefit of the
doubt, then why else is hestaying silent and not answering
to Maleficent?
He's the one who's supposedlyin charge here.
He needs to take the reins onthe situation before it gets out
of hand unless he doesn'tunderstand that it is getting
out of hand.
Maybe he just doesn't realizethat this is something that he

(14:25):
needs to get involved with toprotect his family and kingdom
which like if you need someoneto spell that out for you woof
But let's take a moment andrewind to the basis of this
whole ass thing.
King Stephen is the ruler of akingdom.
Said kingdom neighbors twofairies, both good and evil,

(14:46):
including Maleficent.
King Stephen and his queendecide to have a public kingdom
wide and beyond really event,but choose to single out and not
invite one person, Maleficent.
That to me is a grossmiscalculation as a ruler and as

(15:09):
a father.
You're responsible for keepingyour people safe.
And now as a father, you areresponsible for keeping your
child safe above all else.
In what world is it a safedecision for your child or
kingdom to essentially call outthe mistress of all evil?
Just say all are welcome andshe probably won't show up.

(15:30):
And if she does, at leastyou're not starting from a place
of hostility and it's easier todiffuse the situation.
It's like throwing a birthdayparty for your kid and a serial
killer lives next door.
And you put up flyers all overthe neighborhood and then you
put up social media invites tooand then you tag the neighbor
you didn't invite in the post.

(15:52):
The serial killer neighborprobably wasn't going to show up
to begin with, but now you justcalled their attention to the
situation and laid down achallenge.
King Stephan could have justsaid...
All are welcome who come in thespirit of peace and celebration
and called it a day.
Because let's be real, if hedid that and Maleficent came up

(16:14):
looking to curse his baby, youknow, then he would be fully
right to like put her down onthe spot before she could even
start doing spells.
But he wasn't thinking thisthing all the way through.
He made stupid, poorly thoughtout decisions and then had the
audacity to act shocked whenMaleficent shows up and deals
cataclysmic And listen, this isone of the things that drives me

(16:41):
nuts.
Even before Maleficent got tocursing this baby, after the
whole Meriwether interjection ofit all and being rude,
Maleficent is leaving.
She legit says, quote, in thatevent, I'd best be on my way and
turns to leave the castle.
And then dumbass Queen Leahgoes, you're not offended, Your

(17:06):
Excellency?
Babes.
Clearly she was offended.
Y'all meant offense when youexcluded her and then didn't
correct Meriwether when she toldMaleficent straight up that she
wasn't wanted.
You put up a boundary andwanted her gone.
You're allowed to do that.
She took that as a slight, andso she's gonna leave.

(17:30):
she's allowed to do that.
You don't get to tell someonethat they aren't welcome and
then be like, but you don't hateme, right?
Who gives a

shit?

You made a choice and you deal with the
consequences.
In the words of Lisa Rinna, ownit.
But because Queen Leah, forsome stupid reason, doesn't
recognize Maleficent as thethreat that she is, she decides
to try and be friends withMaleficent after she was just
told to get the fuck out andstarted to leave.
If you all want Maleficent goneand she is leaving, do not stop

(18:04):
her.
When the queen stopsMaleficent, she opens up a
direct path to her child inwhich Maleficent can do harm.
She didn't think it through.
And that is a stupid,unnecessary mistake that she
couldn't afford to make for herkingdom, but most importantly
for her daughter.

And she gave Maleficent a Your Excellency?
What?
You have to own your royalty,too.

If you're saying get the fuck

out...
assert your dominance.

Say get the fuck out.

Yeah, interesting.

Pick one.
Pick which way we're going tobe here.
Okay, now that I've had mymoment with Leah, I'm directing
things back to Stefan.
This is, I think, one of thethings that we overlook the most
about him, and it honestlycould have saved him and Aurora
and the kingdom from all of thismess.
The man has no concept of howmagic works.

(18:57):
He doesn't know what any of thefairy can do, what the limits
of their power are, whatMaleficent is capable of, the
internal politics of the fairyworld.
He doesn't know any of it.
And yet he makes huge, sweepingdecisions that put his child at
the center of it all.
So let's break it down.

(19:17):
This idiot man decides that heis going to accept a delegation
of fairies to bestow gifts uponhis child while telling another
fairy that she she isn't invitedand showing her the door.
You know what we call that?
Picking a side in a fairyconflict and you never want to

(19:42):
do that.
And what's more, in picking aside, accepting gifts and having
it all go down in your castleover your infant child, you've
now put that baby directly atthe center of the conflict.
You did that.
You open this event up tobecoming a battlefield.

(20:03):
And what do you know, youbearded Slim Jim, it does.
Stupid.
But Stefan doesn't know howmagic works.
After Maleficent sentences hischild to a highly specific
magical death, he asksMeriwether, you can undo this
dreadful curse?
Honestly, Stefan, that wouldhave been good to know before

(20:24):
you pissed off the Mistress ofEvil.
So clearly he doesn't know theextent of Maleficent's magic or
even that of the good fairies.
And he just let two of themmagic his child for free.
Magic is a spectrum.
It can be used for good.
It can be used for bad.
But what are the rules?

(20:45):
Is there a cost of some sort?
If she's going to get the giftof beauty, whose beauty
standards are we using?
He doesn't know.
If she's getting the gift ofsong, are we talking Cynthia
Erivo or Jojo Siwa?
We don't know.
And he doesn't ask.
Magic is not something that youfuck with.
Yeah, it can be cool, but itcan also be dangerous.

(21:07):
You should know exactly whatthe parameters are before you
mess with it, let alone put yourkid under a magic wand.
To continue the analogy of yourkid's birthday party, it's like
someone you kind of sort ofknow showing up to your kid's
birthday party and saying, oh, Igot your kid this fun toy that

(21:27):
lights up when they go to sleep,but it's also been known to
spontaneously combust.
So here you go, little Sally.
It's dangerous.
It's irresponsible.
It's stupid decision-making.

Okay.

And then Stefan has his bonfire temper tantrum
where he burns all of thespinning wheels in the kingdom,
which, side note, I guess no newclothes for the next

16 years.
Right.

This is a very knee-jerk, rash decision that is
being driven by, once again,Stefan's lack of knowledge,
understanding, or belief when itcomes to magic.
He thinks that in burning allof these spinning wheels,
somehow a magical curse is notgoing to take effect, as if
Malek Maleficent is going to belike, well, shit, you got me.

(22:12):
I can curse a whole ass baby todeath, but I can't magic a new
spinning wheel into existencewhen I need it.
Meanwhile, the fairies areliterally watching him do this
and they're like, damn, he'sstupid and doesn't get it.
And then they come up with aplan to save his daughter on
their own.
And even more, they can'tinvolve him in the specifics of
the plan because they don'ttrust this man to not fuck it

(22:36):
up.
Like if he was capable ofmaking well thought out
decisions for his child and hadany understanding or interest in
understanding magic, surelythey would have involved him,
right?
But no.
Thus far, he doesn't get whathe's up against and so they're
like, give us your child, wewill hide her away and bring her

(22:56):
back once the 16th birthday ishere.
So, yeah.
Everything that goes down inthis scene is pretty
aggravating.
King Stefan is using hisfresh-out-the-womb daughter as a
political pawn toward his owndesires and and both he and
Queen Leia provoke and escalatea situation with a magical
adversary from a devastatinglack of knowledge and foresight.

(23:18):
Stefan fundamentally does notunderstand the nuances of magic
in his world, nor the politicalmachinations of the fairies in
his realm.
And despite this ignorance, heallows for his infant daughter
to become a magical fairy testsubject guinea pig, getting
cursed to death by spinningwheel in the process.

(23:39):
Well intentioned or not, thisis grossly irresponsible
parenting.
Moving on.
The remaining scenes involvingKing Stefan and or Queen Leah
all center around Aurora'sreturn.
So this is his party.
This is Stefan's partying withHubert moment, Aurora's eventual

(24:00):
return.
So these all take place roughly16 years after the events from
the beginning of the film wherethe King and Queen have been
living childless in themeantime.
Now with Aurora's birthdayarriving, we see King Stefan
preparing and partaking in grandcelebrations for Aurora's
sundown return, most notablewith his lover Hubert.
They talk about their plans forthe future now that Aurora is

(24:24):
coming home and the curse willbe behind them as they
essentially get drunk with theminstrel.
Then, when everything falls toshit at the 11th hour and Aurora
falls under the sleeping curse,the fairies put the entire
kingdom to sleep only to awakewhen Aurora does, so they have
no idea what happened.
When the fairies recover fromthe blunder and rescue Philip,

(24:47):
who defeats Maleficent and wakesAurora, the pair descend the
stairs into the castle entrancehall to dance and for Aurora to
reunite with her birth parentswhile the fairies look down on
them from above.
I have to say, these scenes arepretty damn revealing about the
way that Stefan especially seeshis daughter.

(25:10):
We get a litany of selfishbehaviors all against a backdrop
of the most asinine countingyour chickens before they've
hatched attitude that isill-becoming of a parent.
So let's talk about selfishmoments.
So Stefan, he says that he isdefinitely sad and worried about

(25:31):
Aurora as he looks out thewindow awaiting her return.
But yet he's very quicklyswayed into toasting and
celebrating right alongsideHubert in his private dining
hall chamber thing.

If

it were me and it were my child, I would be
waiting with bated breath asevery second goes by and would
not be so fast to indulge myselfwhen we are literally at some
of the most dangerous hours ofthe curse.

Right, right.

He's all too quick to put his comfort above
doing whatever he can to ensurethat the plan— as much as he
knows of it, goes off without ahitch.
But also for that matter, whathas he been doing these last 16
years?
After Maleficent cursed hisdaughter and the fairies took
her into hiding, it feels verymuch like he sat on his ass

(26:20):
while Maleficent had her, albeitincompetent, minions out and
about searching for Aurora.
Did he go after Maleficent?
Did he dedicate his life totrying to find another way to
break or prevent this cursewhile the fairies were doing the
heavy lifting of raising hischild on their own?
Did he exhaust every possibleoption that was available to him

(26:41):
to save his daughter, even fromafar?
To To be honest, it doesn'treally seem like he tried to do
anything.
Rather, he was content to justlet the fairies come up with the
things and basically just dothe bare minimum and ride out
the curse doing what he wastold.
That's not what a dad does.
A dad should be ready, willing,and able to go above and beyond

(27:06):
for their child, never restinguntil their child's safety is
assured.
But what's Stefan doing?
He's partying.
He's resting.
That's a no-no.
But now let's get into the waythat Stefan is talking about
Aurora with Hubert in thisscumps scene.

(27:26):
Stefan...
Don't laugh at me.
Stefan is still prepared tomove ahead with the betrothal
plans he made with Hubert.
The plan he made 16 years agoinvolving a child that he has
literally...
no relationship with, andsupposedly loves.

(27:47):
He is putting his plans andinterests ahead of Aurora's
well-being and wants beforeshe's even safely on the other
side of this curse.
And what's worse is that heknows this is wrong, but still
talks about doing it anyway.
What do I mean?
As Hubert talks with all hisgusto about the betrothal,

(28:08):
Stefan pulls back and says, itmay come as a shock to Aurora
when they tell her about thebetrothal.
Not that they shouldn't moveforward with it, just that they
should probably tell her gently,as if that's any better.
Now, some people may try anddefend Stefan bringing up when

(28:28):
Hubert suggests that Philip andAurora marry the same night,
move into the castle the nextday that he built for them.
Stefan's not happy about that.
Stefan says that he doesn'twant to rush things, and he
hoped that he would spend someyears with Aurora before she'd
be wed.
He's says to Hubert, quote, Nowhold on, Hubert.
I haven't even seen my daughteryet, and you're taking her away

(28:50):
from me.
End quote.
And this ends up reducing thetwo gay fuck buds into having a
fish and platter wielding swordfight over how and when they
decide the marriage fate oftheir respective children.
Real classy.
But right after this moment,the two of them see the
silliness of their fighting,concede that it doesn't really
matter because they're both onthe same page of still having

(29:12):
their children wed, and startcontinuing Continuing to plan
for the future.
They fall into fits oflaughter, and then this is how
the scene goes.
Hubert says, The children arebound to fall in love with each
other.
Stephan, Precisely.
And as for grandchildren, I'llhave the royal woodcarvers start
work on the cradle tomorrow.
Hubert, Splendid.
King size, of course.

(29:33):
Stephan, Certainly.
To the woodcarvers' guild.
And then they start toastingagain.
Are you fucking kidding me?
You're sitting here on yourdaughter's 16th birthday during
the last hours of a curse thatwill put her into an eternal
death sleep.
And you're moving ahead withexpectations of marriage and

(29:56):
grandchildren from a daughteryou don't even know?
So much so that you're going tohave the Woodcarvers Guild
start on cradles tomorrow, theday after her 16th birthday.
She ain't even home yet.
And you don't even know her.
Stefan is not allowed Auroradoes not owe either him or Queen

(30:31):
Leia a relationship.
Certainly not when theiractions are the very ones that
caused her curse to happen inthe first place.
And yet, here's Stefan with hisbuddy, toasting his ability to
use his offspring as a pawn inhis own personal plans of ruling
and uniting kingdoms, whileAurora is literally sobbing her

(30:53):
eyes out in a tower as herentire worldview crashes down
around her.
That's a selfish ass dad.

And

now let's look at this whole celebration
reception of the princess as awhole.
Because it's feeling verypolitical, very performative,
very keeping up appearances.
King Stefan and Queen Leah arewaiting to receive their
daughter in the royal hall,legit in front of the entire
kingdom.

(31:22):
They're throwing the biggestbirthday party slash welcome
home celebration ever that hasalready started before they've
even met their daughter.
Their plan is to let the entirekingdom bear witness to their
very first moments with theirestranged daughter.
And...
I can't help but feel that thisis an effort to gain sympathy

(31:46):
from the kingdom or out of apolitical sense of duty that the
kingdom be allowed to share inthis kind of a private moment.
But what about Aurora's needs?
She's not a monarch.
She has no royal training orconcept of what would be
expected of her in a publicdisplay at the grandest level
such as this.
As parents, receiving yourbiological children for the

(32:10):
first time in 16 years, You area stranger, starting from square
one.
If you want to put your bestfoot forward, you need to be
prioritizing the child.
Release them from any addedpressure of the situation.
Take the path of leastresistance to setting the
groundwork of a relationshipwith you.

(32:30):
Meet them for the first timeprivately.
Allow yourselves and your childto feel all the emotions,
unfiltered, awkwardness, all ofit.
But that's not what KingStephan and Queen Leah do.
They're more than happy to putthe biggest and most emotional
moment of their child's life onfull display for everyone

(32:52):
without a second thought.

Now

let's talk stupid.

I'm

going to stay with this moment, and we're
going to look at it under thestupid lens.
Because aside from being aselfish political decision to
receive your child publicly...
It's also dumb AF.
Like, did they not think thisthrough of like, what would
happen if this didn't go well?
Literally the last time theyhad a big public event with

(33:19):
their daughter, she got fuckingcursed.
And in all these 16 years, theyhaven't killed Maleficent.
They know that they haven'tkilled Maleficent.
So did they not think that shewouldn't show up as a last
resort?
That like, right before sunset,she might be like alright let's
do one final sweep of thecastle for the girl or hell did

(33:42):
they not think things throughthat if the curse didn't go off
and Maleficent was still alivethat she wouldn't just show up
and full on like massacre thekingdom be like oh well you
bested me and now kaboom becausewhen they wake up from their
magical slumber at the end ofthe movie they don't know that
Maleficent isn't dead yet ifPhilly Cheesesteak hadn't yeeted

(34:02):
the sword of truth intoMaleficent's dragon titty you're
in a level 3 threat levellocation Oh my

god.
I

forgot I wrote that.

The fuck was that sentence?
Please, proceed.

Do you need me to repeat

it?
No, I got it.

It's full-on amateur hour over here.
Literally the first secondsthat they have their kid back,
they're making the same damnmistakes.
They are thinking nothingthrough, and it is continually
jeopardizing their daughter'ssafety.
And then just a couple minorcomplaints about King Stefan

(34:50):
just being a doofus.
Okay.
Aurora comes down the stairs atthe end of the movie and King
Stefan says, it's Aurora.
Bitch, you don't know that?
I mean, yeah, when she getsclose, you're like, okay, I can
see some resemblance to thequeen, but she's far away when
you say that.
You don't know.
Also, the queen immediatelyembraces Aurora with tears in

(35:10):
her eyes.
And the best Stefan can do islike rub her hair and smile.
He doesn't like hug her oranything.
Oh,

my God.

He doesn't say anything.
And then when Hubert is tryingto make sense of everything that
happened for Aurora and Philipto be fully in love in this
moment, and it just doesn't makeany sense, Stefan is there, and
he's looking drunk or blazedout of his mind.
He's just like...

Yes, he totally is.

Like, the man legit has shit to say to his
daughter and is completelyunbothered, not even able to
shed a single tear.
Fuck out of here.
Yeah.
If these scenes show usanything about King Stefan and
Queen Leah, it is that in all ofthis time, they've learned
pretty much nothing.
They're foolish enough torepeat the same types of

(35:55):
mistakes for Aurora's return,not thinking things through to
ensure a safe return, but worsethan that, they are unabashedly
treating her as a prop.
They are more interested in theappearance of having a child
and what that child can do forthem rather than what they can
do to protect and provide forher, and that is unacceptable.

(36:15):
In response to Stefan's need tohave a child, I would say this.
If you're so politicallymotivated and you simply have to
do this whole kingdom unitingthing with Hubert, why not try
to have another kid with thequeen after Aurora's curse?
Would it not have been slightlymore fair to love and raise

(36:37):
that child with the expectationof a betrothal so as to release
your cursed and traumatizedfirstborn to assimilate into
kingdom life at her own pacewithout any undue burden of
expectations.
Like, yeah, an arrangedmarriage is still shitty for
this second kid.
But there's a difference inbeing raised with that
expectation from the startversus having it sprung on you

(36:58):
like Aurora.
I don't know.
You could either read this ashim doubling down on his
selfishness or being slightlyless selfish and not making
Aurora submit to this will.
Honestly, either read works.
Take your pick.
He's an ass.
But I know I'm being ridiculousand harsh in all of this.
I know King Stefan and theQueen have certainly been

(37:18):
through trauma of their own, andthey're not the worst Disney
parents, by any means.
But for us watching them,there's a better model to follow
of royals who have beenforcibly separated from their
child, starting a newrelationship with them, and
bringing them into their lives.
King Frederick and Queen Arianaof Corona,

Rapunzel's parents.

Upon the news that their missing daughter has
returned, they greet that momentwithout expectation, no pomp,
no circumstance.
They are not receiving herbefore the kingdom in a grand
public display.
Instead, it is a private,nuanced, delicate moment between
the parents, their child, andher romantic partner.

(38:03):
All of them are free to feelthe So to close this puppy out.
I think it's time we knockthese pretty royal parents down

(38:38):
a few notches.
They fly under the radar andget the benefit of the doubt far
too often.
King Stephen and Queen Leah,they aren't great parents.
They're routinely doing the onething a parent should not be
doing, save when you're donningoxygen masks in the event of an
airplane emergency.
They're putting themselvesbefore their child.

(39:01):
We see them use their childboth in infant form and a
strange 16-year-old raised inthe woods form as an extension
of themselves to enact their ownwill.
This happens with a betrothalto Prince Philip, expectations
of bearing children promptlyafter her return to court life,

(39:22):
and in making a habit out ofhauling her before the kingdom
in her most humble andvulnerable states to perform
royalty to the kingdom.
And by centering themselves,they continually make
sacrifices.
stupid mistakes.
They don't fully consider therepercussions of their actions
for Aurora.
We see this in theirinteractions with Maleficent,

(39:44):
ignorance of magic, and justgeneral hubris in most things.
King Stephen and Queen Leahsired a child into a colossal
shit sandwich of their ownmaking.
And nearly everything they didput their child at risk, or at

(40:05):
the very least, second tothemselves.
Honestly, the guillotine can'tbe invented soon enough.
And that's my rant.

Wow.
So we've got bearded beefjerky.
Bearded Slim Jim.
Bearded Slim Jim and Phillycheesesteak.

Philly cheesesteak.

Fuck them.
Wow.
All right.
Well, you know what?
You did the thing that Ithought couldn't happen.
And you've given me moresympathy and warm feelings
towards Aurora because of this.
Oh.
Because I'm like, yeah, what ifthese people who were suddenly
I found out there my parentsthey did all these things I
would be pissed I would be soupset

the thing I will never ever be able to get to get
behind is the queen goingyou're not offended your
excellency like

she's not all there no clearly she's not all
there

clearly like she's she's a beard she she's a
beard but damn if that ain't afuck up to end all fuck ups let
her leave Stefan where are youin that scene like where is he
he's just silent through it thequeen speaks before he does

yeah I mean and then I totally get like yeah
it's so obvious if we go intoeverything from Maleficent but
like looking at this through thelens of that guy that we meet
in that movie oh my god he's theworst

he's the worst he's actively terrible Like I
was watching, I was rewatchingsome of Maleficent in
preparation for this.
And I'm just like, oh, he just,he just sucks ass.
He doesn't care about his kid.
He doesn't care about his wife.
He only cares about power.

Yeah.

Literally as a child, he's like, looks at the
castle and he's like, somedayI'm going to live there.

Yeah.
I always hated that scene withhim and Hubert, even as a kid.
And I didn't even know why.
And now I know why.

It's literally, it's, It's ick.
Toxic.
It's very ick.
It's icky.
It's very ick.
Yeah.
It's very selfish.

Aurora, I'm so sorry.
I need to give you a little bitmore sympathy.

Honestly, she and Philip, they just need to get
the

fuck out of there.
They do.
Immediately.

Honestly, I could probably go a step further and
just be like, he probablyshouldn't be king.
He's kind of a bad king.
I mean, I

was having that thought as you were saying
all this.
Yeah.
I don't know if he's a verygood king.

No.
No.
Can you imagine being one ofthe, like, peasants in this?
And be like, well, he...
confiscated my spinning wheeland he burned it.
I

can't have new clothes.

That's my job.
That's my trade.
I used to be a, I used to be, Iused to work in textiles.
I was a, I guess I don'tanymore.
So now I've got to learnsomething.
Do you know how hard it is tolearn a new trade in medieval
France?
It's a whole lot of horse shit.

That's

a villain origin story.

Yeah.

All right.
So now that I have completelyobliterated King Stefan Queen
Leah let's talk about some goodparents I like good parents
there are a lot of good parentsthere

are a lot of really good parents this one
jumped out at me and when wewere doing our last episode of
Disney hear me outs thisincredible father was actually
mentioned so shout out to Laurenwho submitted her Disney hear
me out crush which is Mauricefrom Beauty and the Beast

which also side note on threads I did a little
thing.
I'm like, tell me who some ofyour favorite Disney parents are
and some of your leastfavorite.
And Maurice was consistently upthere at the top.

We love to see that people.

So tell us why.
I

couldn't agree more.
I have a lot to say.
This was like, I was like,

I'm

sad.
My husband passed by me typingthis and he was like, I've never
seen you concentrate harder onsomething in my entire life.
So here we go.
Beauty and the Beast is filledwith some of the most memorable,
rich, game-changing charactersin Disney history.
Who can forget Lumiere's charm,the Beast's soulfulness,

(44:24):
Gaston's swagger, Mrs.
Potts' warmth, and Belle'sbravery and intelligence?

Come on, SA.

Come on.
This fantastic cast ofcharacters may make it easy to
overlook Maurice, Belle'sinventor father who sets the
events of the story in motion.
But Maurice isn't just anadorkable, side character he is
a truly excellent parent one whois not only responsible for

(44:51):
raising one of the best Disneyheroines in the game but a
parent whose quest to love andprotect his daughter as fully as
possible has shaped furtherdevelopment of the beloved
Beauty and the Beast franchisedeepening its message from
screen to stage and back to thescreen in live action form in

(45:11):
this essay I can't with I'malready over myself.
Let's keep going.

Oh, girl, that was me.
That was me literally reading.

So we are going to explore the way that
Maurice's unflinching love,acceptance, and celebration of
Belle for who she is has notonly created one of the most
secure parent-childrelationships in all of Disney,
but why the deepening of hisrole and backstory with each
iteration of the story provesthat a parent's love can be so
powerful that it's actually morelike magic.

Hashtag the deepening.

The deepening.
quick quick quick backgroundinformation we have talked about
Beauty and the Beast on herebefore this was my first rant of
the season was about Beauty andthe Beast so you've heard about
it so Beauty and the Beast wasreleased November 22nd 1991
directed by Gary Truesdale andKirk Weiss based on Beauty and
the Beast by Gabrielle SuzanneBarbeau de Villeneuve the

(46:06):
screenplay by Linda Wolvertonproducer Don Hahn and starring
among others Paige O'Hara asBelle Robbie Benson as the Beast
and Rex So, what do we knowabout Maurice?
Maurice is an inventor wholives in a cottage in a small
French village with his daughterBelle.
He is regarded by the villageas quote, crazy, loony, and

(46:27):
wacky for his unusual choice inprofession.
We don't know quite for howlong, but he has spent some time
raising Belle on his own afterhis wife's passing.
Maurice is based on the fatherfrom the original La Belle et la
Bête, but differs prettymajorly from that character.
In the original fairy taleBeauty's father is a widowed

(46:48):
merchant of 12 children he haslost his fortune but gets word
that one of his lost trade shipshas returned before leaving to
see it he asks his children ifthey'd like him to bring gifts
back for them and Beauty asksfor a rose while her siblings
ask for jewels and finery andall of that on his way home from
the trip which yielded noreturn of his fortune the
merchant takes shelter in acastle during a snowstorm he

(47:10):
finds food and drink left forhim by an invisible host and as
he leaves the next day Soundslike a Stefan.
Yeah.
Very Stefan.
Yeah, very Stefan.
So Maurice's even moreimpressive character considering

(47:45):
this very lacklusterinspiration.
So let's talk about theoriginal animated Maurice.
Clipping along at a prettybrisk 90 minutes, the 1991
animated film could causeMaurice to fade into the
background, but there is so muchgoing on and so much history
and trust between him and Belleat every single interaction they
have and in the way he speaksabout her to other people.

(48:08):
So let's start with what Ithink is the most beautiful
thing about Maurice's parenting,his radical acceptance of Belle
for who Let's take apart whatI'm realizing might be one of my
favorite Disney scenes ever,especially when we talk about it
later when it gets kind offleshed out a little bit.
And that is when we first meetMaurice as Belle returns home to

(48:30):
help him work on his newestinvention.
It encapsulates the features ofthe relationship between
Maurice and Belle that prove tome that their parent-child
attachment is extremely secure.
So thank you to my childpsychology class that I took at
NYU for this.
this information.

Looking back on growing up?

Looking back on growing up.

Looking back on growing up, baby.
Looking

back on growing up.
I took a two.
It's a good class.

It's a really good class.
It's a good

class.
So in this scene alone, we cansee that Maurice is emotionally
available and responsive, thathe provides Belle with a safe
home base to return to afterbeing able to explore the world,
and that there is a mutualtrust between them.
So let's start with trust.
I think this is the strongestThere is a sense of camaraderie

(49:18):
and equality between Belle andMaurice that is immediately
obvious.
It feels healthy for anadult-parent-child relationship.
They start talking about theirrespective passions right away.
He asks Belle if she had a goodtime in town while she
wordlessly looks through histools to hand him what he may
need without him really needingto say anything.
Maurice accepts Belle's inputand knowledge, trusting that she

(49:40):
understands his work.
Belle's trust in Mauricebecomes even more obvious in the
way that she is able to confidein him about the way she was
treated that day and probablyevery day in town.
Just today, she heard peoplesay about her that it's a pity
and a sin she doesn't quite fitin and that the whole town's
talking about it.
It's not right for a woman toread.

(50:00):
Papa, do you think I'm odd?
Belle asks.
And she asks it in a way thatimplies that she expects her
father will respond truthfullywith facts and reasoning.
So there is that responsivenessthat she can rely on.
I also just have to say thatevery Belle delivery of this
line absolutely kills me becauseit's so vulnerable and for

(50:21):
someone as self-assured as Belleto ask it the way that she does
always breaks my heart.
Yeah.
Ugh.
So, emotional availability andresponsiveness.
Maurice allows Belle to see himin a fully human way.
When she gets home, he'sfrustrated over his inability to
get his machine to work.
He never puts on airs of fatherknows best.
He doesn't try to come off asperfect.

(50:42):
There is a transparency andtrust there.
Now that's safe home base toreturn to after exploring the
world, another part of thatsecure parent-child attachment.
What I love about Maurice'sanswer to Belle's question in
the animated version, because wewill talk about the other
versions as well, is thatMaurice seems truly baffled by

(51:02):
the question.
When he says, my daughter, odd,where would you get an idea
like that?
He is genuinely asking whereBelle heard that.
Because Maurice doesn't reallygive a hoot what people think of
him.
He absolutely has privilege andhis ability to live like this
as a man in France during thistime period but I still think he

(51:22):
serves as an excellent examplefor Belle in tuning out of the
gossipy ways of the village soalthough we see Belle's armor
crack in this really touchingway I think she is able to walk
through town with her head heldhigh or her nose stuck in a book
perhaps because of the wayMaurice raised her so there is

(51:43):
also that freedom for Belle toexplore the world that's part of
this Even if Maurice knows thepeople in town can be judgy or
cruel, he doesn't try to shelterBelle from their views, but he
makes their home a safe homebase for her to return to
afterward.
Also, on the note of Maurice'sraising of Belle, I need to give

(52:04):
him a lot of credit here, too.
As evidenced by Gaston's visionof his future family with
Belle, or the woman in townjuggling what looks like at
least five children on her own,

And all she needs is six eggs?

Yeah, please.
One egg each.
Based on all this, men in thistime are not expected to do the
work of raising children.
And although Maurice doesn'tseem to make a lot of money, it
looks like he rigged up thecottage to give Belle the best
life possible within theirmeans.
There's a watermill.
There's chicken, goats, books.
It feels like a home.
And on top of this, Bellerejects the idea of being

(52:42):
Gaston's little wife.
She was clearly raised in a waythat is proven to her that
there is something more in storefor her than being the
caretaker of the home by defaultjust because she is a woman.
Maurice gave her that.
And let's face it, in this timeperiod with its belief that
women shouldn't be educatingthemselves, it is more than
likely that Maurice is the onewho first put a book in Belle's

(53:04):
hand and taught her to read.
For that alone, he is theultimate father in my book.

Yeah.

Back to Belle's ability to confide in
her father in moments of highemotion, we see Ugh.
So back to their conversationin the cottage.
As Belle and Maurice continuetheir conversation and Belle

(53:43):
tells him she doesn't reallyhave anyone to talk to, Maurice
begins to make what we mightthink could be a little bit of a
blunder.
What about that Gaston?
He's a handsome fella.
And we want to be like,Maurice, what?
But let's remember, this guyclearly doesn't get into town a
lot, so probably doesn't know alot about what Gaston is really
like and is not naive to thefact that as radical as Belle

(54:06):
may be, it's still a man's worldand she may need to get married
in order to survive in it.
But then, Belle responds bysaying everything that's wrong
with Gaston and finishing with,Papa, he's not for me.
And Maurice just doesn't pushit further.
When Belle tells him how shefeels about something, Maurice
accepts it.
No questions asked.

(54:27):
He trusts her judgment ofsituations and people's
character without pause.
And it's not that he doesn'thave this tendency at times.
Philippe clearly wants to leadMaurice away from the path of
doom in the forest, but Mauricebelieves he knows best and leads
them down the path that hechooses instead.
But he not like this when itcomes to Belle.
And his ability to step back ina conversation about a

(54:51):
potential future husband forBelle is once again pretty
remarkable for a father in thistime and place.
A man with one daughter and notmuch money would usually be
laser focused on marrying heroff.
Her preferences be damned.
Maurice demonstrates this trustagain at the climax of the
film.
Belle tells him that the Beast,the guy who took him prisoner

(55:12):
and then separated him from hisdaughter, is actually kind and
gentle because Belle told himso.
Papa, what are we going to do?
Belle asks him as the mob headsto the castle.
Even after her time away, Bellereverts immediately back to her
and Maurice being a team.
We'll think of something, hesays.
We.

Yeah, he's game for it.
He's just

like, yep.

He's like, oh yeah, the guy who threw me in
jail and everything, you tell mehe's nice?

I believe you.
Yeah, I believe you.
Yep.
He doesn't even need to likesay, he just rolls with it.

It's just great.

Yep.
And in a world that can makeBelle feel very alone Maurice is
her constant.
Maurice is also an excellentresponsive listener.
Although he does do a littlebit of fixing sometimes when
Belle expresses her feelings, hedoesn't shut them down or
coddle them.
He hears Belle's expressions ofloneliness and explains to her
what he's trying to do to helpthem start fresh, win first

(56:05):
prize money at the fair.
Just a beautiful gem of ascene, that scene, and one that
is deepened in later versions ofthe story, and we will get
there.
Maurice is also just a goodguy, and you can't be a good
pairing if you aren't a goodperson.
The way that Maurice behaveswhen he arrives at the Beast's
castle is a perfectencapsulation of this.
He attempts to find thecastle's owner before settling

(56:26):
in and says, please, thank you,beg your pardon.
He almost got eaten by wolvesand he still remembers his
manners.
He apologizes and assures theBeast that he meant no harm.
And although he's a littlespooked by the talking objects,
his first real reaction is oneof awe and respect.
Incredible, he says of Lumiere.
And he greets Chip as if hewere a real human child.
Just green flags all around.

Yeah, Maurice and Chip especially, that
relationship is like all greenflags.
Absolutely.
The greenest of green flags.

Absolutely.
And the fact that Belle andMaurice are literally everything
to each other is what sets thisplot in motion.
That's how powerful their loveis.
There's a shot of Mauricesitting in the snow after
getting laughed out of thetavern, crying, will no one help
me?
And it fades right into a shotof Belle crying on her bed in
the castle.

(57:15):
It really makes you see howvery alone in the world these
two are without each other.
One of the things Belle holdsmost dear is her freedom, and
she will only put one thing infront of it, Maurice.
I've lost my father, my dreams,everything, she says to Mrs.
Potts.
Her show of strength falters infront of the Beast for the

(57:36):
first time when she realizes shenever got to say goodbye to her
father.
And Maurice will literally doanything to fight for Belle.
Although he can come off as alittle kooky or scatterbrained
maybe in the beginning of thefilm, he becomes an unstoppable
force when it comes toprotecting Belle.
He allows his role as a fatherto make him the best version of

(57:56):
himself.
When Maurice first meets theBeast, he's understandably
pretty terrified.
But when Belle arrives at thecastle, Maurice is firm.
And for the only time, we seehim tell Belle what to do.
He tells her to leave.
No time to explain.
You must go now.
And he says, no, Belle, I won'tlet you do this.
He becomes very assertive.

I know, he like I'm an old man I've lived my
life

oh my god that destroys me that I can't handle
can't I also love that Mauricemakes his big entrance back into
town right after the songGaston finishes it's like he's
ruining all the fun he has bagsunder his eyes he is sick as a
dog and he doesn't care what thehell kind of party was just
happening in this tavern I thinkparents so often get shamed for

(58:41):
this kind of like buzzkillbehavior and some of the best
parents I know don't give a ratass if they come off as weird or
no fun for defending theirchild's safety.

It's very Joyce Byers.
Yes, it

is.
It

is.
Like, I know my kid.
I know my kid.
Yes.
I know what's going on.
This isn't right.

Absolutely.
Where are you, my son?
Belle! Belle! He's gettingthrown to the ground and doesn't
even seem to care because he isso single-minded about getting
someone to help him.
And even though the townspeopleshrug him off and mock him,
saying he's always good for alaugh, there is clearly some
something about thissingle-minded protectiveness of

(59:19):
Belle that is threatening toGaston.
It makes me wonder if he choseto propose when Maurice was out
of town for a reason.
Yes, he tries to get him cartedoff to an asylum in order to
use him as a bargaining chipwith Belle, obviously more proof
of how powerful Maurice'srelationship with Belle is.
But it really feels likeMaurice's unwavering insistence

(59:40):
that the truth will out aboutBelle is a huge threat, and
getting him out of the way issuper Yes, Maurice is a little
unique, but nothing he doesreally lives up to the crackpot
and wacky old coot names that hegets called.
And I think some of thismockery is to diminish Maurice's
very real power as a father.

(01:00:00):
And in that same way, I thinkwe diminish him too.
It can be kind of easy to glossover the things Maurice says
because, like I said, the filmis pretty well-paced and full of
a lot of vibrant characters.
But at one point, Maurice saysof Saving Belle, I don't care.
care what it takes.
That's the voice of a hero.
He begins to dig his heelsfurther and further into the

(01:00:23):
ground as his efforts to findhelp for Belle fail, and he
decides to go back for herhimself alone.
The guy who once told Bellethat Gaston is a handsome fella
says, get your hands off me tohis cronies by the end of the
film.
Rather than drowning in fear,Maurice lets his fight for
Belle's life give him power andstrength.
And even though we could saythat the biggest obstacles

(01:00:47):
between Belle and the Beast aremaybe at first the Beast's
initial cruelty or then laterGaston.
Belle's love for Maurice is thething that puts the most
distance between the two ofthem, not in a bad way, but as a
testament to the strength oftheir bond.
It's the Beast's treatment ofMaurice that initially makes
Belle hate him.
And then it's her need toprotect him and her missing him

(01:01:09):
that sets in motion the arrivalof Gaston to the castle.
She is in the midst of a lovestory that will litter change
the fate of the kingdom and itis still not going to distract
her from her love for herfather.
Maurice is clearly doingsomething very right.
And let's face it, Belledoesn't need Maurice to survive.
I mean, I give him all of thecredit for the life he created

(01:01:32):
for younger Belle, but she'sintelligent and capable and
definitely is not relying onMaurice for financial stability.
So I think it's just love.
I think about the number oftimes they call after each other
as they're being torn apart inthis film, and I see a
relationship that transcendsparent-child.
It's just two souls who loveeach other deeply.
Ultimately, Belle is allowed tobe exactly who she is with

(01:01:56):
Maurice.
He never seeks to change her orimpose his own or society's
beliefs upon her.
And this absolutely beautifulquality is taken to the next
level in the Broadway musical.
Let's talk about it.
Quick, quick,

Conor Perkins (01:02:10):
quick.
She got there.
She's got the shirt.

Caroline Aimetti (01:02:13):
I'm wearing my B2B shirt.
So Beauty and the Beast openedon Broadway on April 18th, 1994,
directed by Robert Jess Roth,based on Beauty and the Beast by
Linda Wolverton, with a book byLinda Wolverton, music by Alan
Menken, and lyrics by HowardAshman and Tim Rice, starring,
among others, Susan Egan asBelle, Terrence Mann as the
Beast, and Tom Bosley asMaurice.

(01:02:36):
So I am going to focus here onthe most important addition to
Maurice's character and story,one of the new songs written for
the musical.
No matter what disclaimer I'min love with this song and I
think it's perfect

also disclaimer it is not in the new version
that is currently touring andpissed her the fuck off

yeah I was really upset I was like I felt
the moment come and I was likewe passed it we passed it what's
happening

I felt it too and I was like oh

yeah it's necessary this song fills in and
musicalizes the moment afterBelle asks Maurice if he thinks
she's odd and yes this isexactly where Maurice would
start singing Not only does thissong offer a more explicit
mention of Belle's similarity toher mother, which I think is
beautiful, but it succinctlycrystallizes, captures, and
deepens what makes Maurice anincredible father.

(01:03:26):
He accepts and celebrates Bellefor exactly who she is and
makes sure she knows that he isalways on her side.
I mean, I literally don't knowhow to just not like quote the
lyrics of this entire song, butlike here's the best moments.
Here's the lyrics for the wholesong.
I wish I could just sit hereand play it for you all because
if you don't know, Go listen toit after this, but it's a

(01:03:48):
perfect song.
He says to Belle, talking aboutthe townspeople, they are the
common herd and you can take myword.
You are unique.
Creme de la creme.
No matter what you do, I'm onyour side.
And if my point of view issomewhat misty-eyed, there's
nothing clearer in my life thanwhat I wish and feel for you.
And that's a lot, no matterwhat.

(01:04:09):
I cannot deal with this song.
I can't deal with this song.

There she goes.

This song also gives Belle the chance to
affirm Maurice back and tell himwhat she loves about him too,
which is so special.
And the final part of the songabsolutely breaks me every
single time.
It's why I believe the showrequires this song.
It basically establishes thestakes of everything that will
happen shortly thereafter whenBelle sacrifices herself And

(01:04:38):
Belle says, Hmm.
Hmm.
I

love this song.
There she goes.
There she goes.

And then Maury says, you're never strange,
Belle.
Don't ever change.
And then together they sing,you're all I've got, no matter
what.
Yeah, it's just the way that hesays...
You're never strange.
I actually can't deal with it.
Okay, I have to move on.
It's a perfect fit for Maurice.
It starts like a littlepattery.

(01:05:27):
It becomes sweet and poignant,and it proves that Maurice is
full of depths to mine.
He isn't just odd.
He's a survivor.
He's a fighter, and he is afather who requires nothing from
his daughter aside from hertruest expression of herself in
a world that discourages it.
It's clear in the song thatMaurice has shown Belle exactly
what radical acceptance and lovelook like, And it's exactly

(01:05:51):
what she is able to offer theBeast.
A rejection of what the worlddeems strange or ugly and an
acceptance of someone's heart.
Belle's second big solo, AChange in Me, was added to the
show in 1998 when Toni Braxtonjoined the show as Belle and has
been included in the musicalever since.
Bravo.
It's a

fantastic song.

Yes.
Belle absolutely needed an acttwo solo.
Absolutely needed it.
And her revelation about whoshe has become is revealed to
who?
Maurice.
He is the person she trustswith some of her most vulnerable
budding feelings and she'salmost figuring out her thoughts
in real time in front of himbecause he allows her the space
to do so I could go on and onabout the musical but we need to

(01:06:34):
keep moving because I am goingto track the final deepening
Maurice via the live action filmadaptation we have talked about
this on the podcast as well thelive action Beauty and the
Beast was released on March 17th2017 directed by Bill Condon
based on Beauty and the Beast byLinda Wolverton, and the
screenplay is by Stephen Chboskyand Evan Spiliotopoulos with

(01:06:56):
music by Alan Menken, lyrics byTim Rice, and starring among
others Emma Watson as Belle, DanStevens as the Beast, and Kevin
Kline as Maurice! Please.
By now you're probablywondering if I'm well, and the
answer is probably no, but let'skeep going.
I want to take a look at thisversion of the scene between
Belle and Maurice that weexamined from the animated film.

(01:07:16):
Not only does the dialoguedeepen some of Maurice's
incredible parental qualitiesbut it introduces the song How
Does a Moment Last Forever.

Easily like the best part of that movie is that
song.

So good.
So good.
And it also introduces evenmore information about Belle's
mother and I believe this iswhat ultimately moves Maurice
from incredible father to theheart of the story between Belle
and the Beast.
We first see Maurice working inhis home workshop.
In this version of the storyhe's an artist and we see him
tinkering with figurines in amusic box while singing How Does

(01:07:52):
a Moment Last Forever, one ofthe new songs for the film.
And we will come back to thesong in a little while.
When Belle asks Maurice if hethinks she's odd, we get even
more information about Maurice'sparenting.
This is a small village, youknow, small-minded as well, he
says.
So there's that secureattachment, freedom to explore
again.
Belle can experience thecruelty of the village while

(01:08:14):
knowing that she can return toher father for affirmation of
her worth outside of theirgossip.
Small means safe, he adds.
We find out later in the filmthat Maurice was forced to leave
Paris with Babybel when hiswife was sickened with and
eventually killed by the plaguethat overtook the city.
This man has some baggage.

(01:08:36):
Yeah.
We're gaining even more of anunderstanding of what the
musical Maurice might have meantwhen he sang no matter what the
pain, we've come this far.
But despite this fear that mustnaturally live inside Maurice
that something could happen toBelle too.
He never limits herexplorations or her dreaming but
he also delicately remindsBelle why they need to live in a

(01:08:59):
town that makes her feel soalone.
He hears her but he wants tomake sure she knows that this
isn't all for nothing.
Safety becomes a huge theme ofthis Belle and Maurice
relationship.
You have my word, Maurice sayswhen Belle asks for a rose on
his journey and it isn't thefirst time she's asked for this.
Whenever Maurice tries to sellhis wares, Belle asks for a rose

(01:09:22):
and he brings it back the nextday.
They have repeated patternsthat prove to Belle that she can
trust and rely upon Maurice inan unpredictable world that took
her mother from her.
This also explains why Mauricestops for the rose at the
castle.
He gave Belle his word and intheir relationship that is
everything.
Belle eventually has to findout on her own how her mother

(01:09:44):
died and the circumstances oftheir leaving her in Paris and
this kind of secrecy might seemtroubling, but I wonder if it's
because Maurice didn't wantBelle to know that he left her
mother because he didn't wanther to ever fear he would leave
her too.
Hence, they're very predictablerituals and their wordless
communication and knowing looks.
It's all about thatreliability, that trust, that

(01:10:06):
repetition.
I

never thought of that.
That's devastating.

Oh my God.
This man.
This man.
And then there's the scene whenBelle trades her life for
Maurice's.
In this version of the scene,Belle has to pretend that she's
actually going to leave Mauricethere so that she can shove him
out of the cell at the lastsecond because there's no way in
hell that Maurice is going towillingly let her take his
place.
Belle's anger in this scenealso comes from the Beast daring

(01:10:34):
to call Maurice a thief.
Liar.
She snarls back at him.
This scene becomes even moreheart-wrenching than the
original somehow because Mauriceacknowledges the loss of
Belle's mother and says he willnot lose Belle too.
Belle Listen to me.
It's all right.
Now go live your life andforget me.
Forget me?

(01:10:54):
Of course.
Maurice knows that this isimpossible.
But he holds Belle's freedomand ability to make her own life
in the highest regard that it'sprobably all he can think of to
say.
And then this isn't even theonly time Maurice is willing to
lay down his life in exchangefor Belle's ability to be free.
Gaston fully offers to preventhim from being carted off to the

(01:11:16):
asylum in exchange for Belle'shand.
And it's an absolute no.
no from Maurice.
And he had already said no toGaston, fixing that little issue
from the animated version, evenas he was threatened with being
left for dead in the woods.
Maurice even tries to hitGaston.
He is not playing around.

Kevin Kline Maurice.
Kevin Kline Maurice.
He don't fucks.

He will fight you.

He don't fuck with Gaston.

And this is all against the backdrop of this
time period when, as Gastonlikes to remind Belle and
Maurice, Belle could be at riskof ending up in the streets
without a male figure in herlife.
This not only heightens thestakes of Maurice's need to
protect her and keep the two ofthem together, but it makes his
unwillingness to marry her offeven more impressive.
Back to the dungeon scene.

(01:12:02):
I'm sorry, this is filled withso many tangents, but there's so
much going on.
Maurice's parting words toBelle are, I love you, Belle.
Don't be afraid.
And as she hugs him for herfake-out farewell, he is
smiling.
And it nearly killed me.
And I don't think it's like aputting on a brave face kind of
smile, it's a relief that Bellewill get to keep her life.

(01:12:23):
And more than that, Belle'sapparent decision to leave him
to rot in this dungeon foreverdoesn't change how he feels
about her at

all.
No.

It's heartbreaking.

Because it's the same decision that he had to
make for his wife.

Right.

He's like, I know what's going on for you right
now because I had to do the samething and I'm letting you know
that it's okay.

It makes me want to like primal sob.
I can't.
It's

a good dad.

Maurice I love that in both this and the
animated film, Maurice allowsBelle to fight her own battles
when it's time.
She races into the castle tofind the beast and stop Gaston
on her own in both versions.

(01:13:09):
And she knows that she can doit because Maurice has never
made her feel otherwise.
I mean, like, did Maurice writethe book The Anxious
Generation?
Possibly.
Speaking of Belle, there's thesaying that we are an average of
the five people we spend themost time with.
And at the start of this film,Belle is basically just an
average of Maurice and maybe thebookseller or Père Robert in

(01:13:32):
this version.
So I think it's safe to saythat so many of the qualities
that Belle possesses that makeher one of the most iconic
heroines of all time werefostered by having Maurice for a
father.
Now, do not get me wrong.
Women are not made or unmade bytheir male parental figures or
even lack their Belle is specialbecause of who she chose to be.

(01:13:53):
But given that this filmspecifically focuses on the
importance of fathers, it'sworth noting that Belle's
attitude toward men is likelyshaped by having Maurice as a
father.
Belle does not implicitly obeymen the way women of her time
are expected to.
Further than that, she callsGaston a monster, and let's be
real, he's kind of a typical manof that time, and in this film

(01:14:17):
is even celebrated as a hero.
And Belle sees what he reallyis.
She doesn't shrug his behavioroff as like, that's how men are,
because she knows what anexcellent, kind man looks like.
And it's also why she isunwilling to put up with the
beast's shit behavior andtherefore get to the heart
underneath.
Belle is argumentative, asGaston says.

(01:14:37):
Translation, she has opinionsof her own.
And I believe her raising byMaurice gave her the ability to
practice speaking her mind.
As I said, Belle is who she isbecause of her own convictions
bravery, intelligence, andcompassion.
But I think an excellentchildhood prepped her for the
kind of woman that she wanted tobe.
So let's talk about the song,How Does a Moment Last Forever.

(01:15:00):
Maurice sings this song lookingat the little figurines of
Belle's mother holding babyBelle the first time we see him.
How can a story never die?
It is love we must hold on to,never easy, but we try.
Sometimes our happiness iscaptured.
Somehow our time and placestands still.
Love lives on inside our heartsand always will.

(01:15:21):
That's what he sings.
We see Maurice trying tocapture every memory of of his
wife through his art.
His home is littered withdrawings of her.
His life's focus is preventingthe loss of Belle and preserving
her safety and her freedom atthe same time.
The melody of this song becomesone of the musical themes of
the film with Belle picking itup later in the film as she

(01:15:44):
learns about the beast's cruelfather and difficult childhood.
Although at this point she issinging about the inhabitants of
the castle, she could almost betalking about herself and
Maurice when she sings How inthe midst of all this sorrow can
so much hope and love endure?
Shortly before this song, Mrs.
Potts reminds the Beast that,quote, you can't judge people by

(01:16:07):
who their father is.
Now can you?
The influence of fathers andchildhood begin to move to the
forefront of this version of thestory, and the music is giving
us this clue.
Using the same melody, Bellecontinues to sing, I can't go
back into my childhood, one thatmy father made secure.
And then she sings, Don't getme started on this amazing nod

(01:16:30):
to the song from the musical.
But it is Belle's knowledge ofthe Beast's father and her
recognition of the ways theirchildhoods were vastly different
that allow her to begin to openher heart to him despite his
thorniness and his cruelty.
This softening is what beginstheir love story.
And they come to know eachother even more deeply when the

(01:16:52):
Beast is sort of the first realwitness to Belle's realization
of the sacrifice Maurice had tomake for Belle by leaving his
wife to die.
And all of these realizationsbegin with the melody of
Maurice's song.
Maurice's life revolves aroundpreserving and capturing his
love for the wife he lost.
The question his song asks, howdoes a moment last forever, is

(01:17:16):
answered in the Celine Dioncover of the song during the end
credits.
Still our song lives on.
That song is Belle and herpicking up of the melody of her
father's song is what sets heron the And so Maurice and his
love for his family becomes theheart of this story.

(01:17:38):
Belle is able to move beyondthe hurt of her past because of
the boundless love given to herby her father and is able to
love the beast's wounds intohealing because of it.
And he is then able to heal hisown wounds himself by letting
Belle go, by putting someoneelse ahead of himself, all

(01:18:00):
because of her love for herfather.

Yeah, it's because of Maurice.
It's because of Maurice.
When she's like, I miss him,and then he's like, you should
go to him.
The whole crux of his arc alsorevolves around Maurice and
changing his perspective onMaurice as well.

It's true.
It's so true.
So to wrap this up.

I kind of don't want you to.

Maurice.

I love Maurice Land.

It's literally, I have like a lump in
my throat this all time.
I love that both Beauty and theBeast films end with some sort
of shot of Maurice.
In the animated version, hewipes his happy tears and in the
live action, he's painting ascene of the not quite wedding
but sort of wedding celebration.
He isn't interfering.

(01:18:50):
He's not inserting his feelingsin any way.
He is simply bearing witness,knowing that his daughter has
always had the tools to be herown person and make her own
decisions.
And Maurice appears fourth inthe end credits of the live
action film and I don't thinkit's just because of the Kevin
Kline of it all.
I mean, what a gorgeousperformance though.

(01:19:11):
I think there's also a reasonthat each new iteration of
Maurice becomes deeper.
He is a character and fatherwhose love for his child ripples
out to affect so many livesbeyond his own.
I always used to lament thefact that No Matter What didn't
make it into the live actionfilm, but now I see that the

(01:19:32):
only logical next step forMaurice was for him to be the
Ooh.
Ooh.

That really got me.
Oh, that just really got meright now.
No.
No.
Not this.

No.

Not you putting respect on the live-action
Beauty and the Beast for me.
Why are you doing that?

Let me tell you.
Let me tell you something.

Oh, no.

Watching that film through this perspective
of, like, latch on to Maurice,latch on to How Does a Moment
Last Forever, I was like, wait.

Better movie.

Better movie.
Because, seriously, like, Theytook that song and they were
like, this is the song of themovie.
And you really have to be like,why?
Why?
And it's

because of this.
That's the thing that gotCeline at the end because she
wasn't going to do it.
She wasn't going to do itbecause she was like, oh no, I
did the first one.
That was such an importantthing.
It was between me and myhusband.
And then she heard the song andshe was like, I need to sing
this song for him.
Because that song is the cruxof that version of the movie.

I can't.
Yeah.

That was a dissertation.
You have your doctorate,Maurice.

Put No Matter What back.
This is my plea.
If nothing else comes fromthis, please, Disney Theatrical.
Where's the camera?
There.
Disney Theatrical, please putNo Matter What back into the
musical.
I know that Act 1 is longerthan Act 2, but we will sit.
We're sat.

We're sat.
We

need it.

We're already here.

Because Maurice isn't just a silly old
man.
He's so much more than that.
Please, please put the songback in.

Thank you.

Maurice.

He's the best.
He literally is the thing thateverything hinges on.

Yeah.

Everything hinges on him.

Everything hinges on him.
He raised this girl alone.
He put a book in her hand andwas like, I'm going to show you
how to read this.
Everyone else be damned.
Like...
What?

And storytelling wise, every time that it feels
like the story is starting toswerve from the sort of like
destiny path that it needs toget, the happy ending,

who

is there to nudge the story?
It's Maurice.
In every version.
He's there at all the pivotalmoments to sort of like knock it
one way, knock at the other sothat the happily ever after
happens.

Yeah.
And this man's worst nightmarecomes comes true his daughter
gets taken from him the thinghe's been trying to avoid if
we're moving forward with thethe backstory from the live
action let's say and then whenshe turns back up she wants to
leave again and is also like bythe way the person who who did
that to me is a good person andhe's like okay what what

yeah and also like she shows back up and then
she's like I'm showing back upbecause I love you and I want to
take care of you but I alsowant to let you know that I can
love you and want to take careof you and all of that and still
say that I'm leaving and youtaught me how to do that like
that's a parent's that's theparent's dream to have your

(01:23:03):
child say to you I love youunconditionally and I will
always be here for you and youhave raised me so well that I am
okay on my own and I havethings that I want and I have
things that I'm going to chaseafter and I'm going to do it
that's the dream of a parent andshe does it Alright.

Okay.

What a way to close out the saison.

The saison.

In terms of Ransom Raves.

Yeah.

Beginning and ending with Beauty and the
Beast.

Yes.
I'm so sorry.
I do have a bad habit of goingback to the well of like the
movies that I cannot stopthinking about and obviously
Beauty and the Beast is one ofthem.
I'm sorry.
I know there are so many Disneymovies in the world.

I can't imagine what this rave would be if it
wasn't Maurice as as like thisis my parent that I need to
shout out he's too special

yes

well I hope you all enjoyed that that's gonna do
it for us for this episodethank you all so much for
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(01:24:26):
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(01:24:47):
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Thank you.
Okie dokie.

(01:26:56):
Well, we will be back soon withsome more Caroline What's New
and then a showdown episode aswe keep trucking along steadily
towards the end of season four.
Yeah.
So until then, Beluga Savruga.

Beluga Savruga.

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