June 26, 2025 • 43 mins
Freedom delayed is not freedom denied. This powerful truth lies at the heart of Juneteenth, a holiday that only recently gained federal recognition but carries centuries of profound significance for Black Americans and our shared national story.
On this special solo episode, I dive deep into the complex history of Juneteenth, tracing its origins to that momentous day in 1865 when Union General Gordon Granger arrived in Galveston, Texas with General Order Number Three—finally bringing freedom to enslaved people a full two-and-a-half years after the Emancipation Proclamation. This isn't just Black history hidden in the shadows; it's American history that deserves to be fully understood and celebrated by all.
I share the remarkable story of Miss Opal Lee, the "Grandmother of Juneteenth," who at age 89 began walking 2.5 miles in cities across America to symbolize the 2.5-year delay in freedom. Her persistence helped transform what was once a regional Texas celebration into our newest federal holiday. Yet this recognition comes with complicated realities—from corporate performance activism that fades faster than their marketing campaigns to troubling legislative efforts in 44 states attempting to restrict how racism is taught in schools.
Despite these challenges, I remain optimistic about the enduring power of Juneteenth. We're witnessing an incredible renaissance of Black entrepreneurship, with Black women leading as America's fastest-growing group of entrepreneurs. Our stories are being told with unprecedented richness across literature, film, and television. These triumphs embody the true spirit of Juneteenth—the understanding that delay doesn't mean defeat, and that freedom, once rooted, continues to blossom in beautiful and unexpected ways.
Whether you're gathering with family, supporting Black-owned businesses, or simply learning more about this vital piece of American history, I invite you to celebrate Juneteenth with genuine appreciation for how far we've come and clear-eyed determination about the journey still ahead. Because this holiday belongs to all of us who believe in the ongoing work of freedom.
Keeping Veterans Fit, Inc.
Keepingveteransfit.org
Please follow Pops and Son Conversations on the website, popsandsonconversations.com, and social media @popsandsonconversations
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
welcome back to another episode of pops and son
conversations.
Today is just me, son, akacheck three times.
I gave pops a day off.
You know I'm flying this onesolo, but I still have a great
show lined up for you guys.
On this episode, I want to talkabout a holiday that recently
(00:30):
passed, right, and I actuallywant to give you a little bit of
history and some of my personalopinions as well.
So, if you haven't alreadyguessed, this holiday I'm
talking about is Juneteenth,right?
So y'all remember back in 2021,when all of a sudden, it seemed
like Juneteenth became afederal holiday.
(00:52):
So, for a lot of us, I mean, Iguess I could only speak for
myself, right, but I'm stillspeaking for a lot of us.
But you know, it was our firsttime that we really heard that
name, like on a national scale.
I feel like it was one of thosecollective aha moments.
You know, I personally startedGoogling, you know, doing my
(01:16):
little research and trying tofigure out, like you know,
what's Juneteenth?
Like you heard about it, but itwas like wow, so it's a holiday
now, it.
But it was like wow, so it's aholiday now.
So just that little bit ofAmerican history that was kind
of lost on.
A lot of people got brought tothe forefront.
That wasn't necessarilysomething that was taught in
(01:38):
schools.
I remember learning aboutIndependence Day, 4th of July,
but I didn't get the whole scope.
So I, you know, I had to do alittle research and I think a
lot of people, you know, reallywoke up when they got broadcast
on a national scale like that.
And I remember that first year,that first year, like there was
(01:59):
so much energy around it.
You know, you saw theJuneteenth colors everywhere the
red, black and green the bigcorporations were putting out.
You know all these statementsof solidarity and you know it
felt good, like now that I thinkabout it in hindsight, you know
it was crazy.
It was just a great moment inhistory, a great moment in time.
(02:23):
But you know, now this year June19th, 2025, I got to say, you
know it feels a little quieter.
You know I don't know ifanybody has noticed, but you
know I feel like the corporateads have mostly vanished.
You know there was a big socialmedia buzz.
(02:43):
I feel like that's kind of dieddown as well and I don't know,
it kind of seemed like, you know, maybe like the national
spotlight has moved on now, usBlack folks.
You know we continue tocelebrate it, of course, and
many of us had already beendoing that, but I'm just
speaking kind of on the nationallevel.
So when you think about that itmakes you wonder like what
(03:08):
happened?
Did we lose that momentum?
You know, that crucialcelebration, that inclusive
celebration of freedom?
Did we let that fade into thebackground?
So today I actually want to getinto a little bit of that.
You know just the complexhistory of Juneteenth and why,
(03:29):
why is so important in Americatoday.
But before we get into that, Ido want to go back to the
beginning, because some of y'allmight be like me and didn't
really know the full history ofJuneteenth, how it came about,
what it's all about.
So you know, I want to talkabout that a little bit.
(03:50):
So picture this it's June 19th1865.
A union general named GordonGranger arrives in Galveston,
texas, and he is carrying amessage, general Order number
three.
And this order is about tochange everything.
It begins like this the peopleof Texas are informed that, in
(04:13):
accordance with a proclamationfrom the executive of the United
States, all slaves are free.
But here's the kicker, and thiswill get get me this order,
this general order.
Number three it was happeningmore than two full years after
(04:34):
Lincoln's EmancipationProclamation which is what I
learned about in school offreedom.
They didn't tell us that, youknow.
They didn't tell us that noteverybody was free after this
right.
I guess we just kind of skippedover that one in history class,
but that proclamation that wassupposed to free everybody
(04:55):
actually didn't.
So for two and a half years inTexas, you know, people weren't
free, they were still slaves.
But on that day, june 19th, thefreedom was delivered.
It was delayed but it was notdenied.
(05:16):
So it also went on to statethat an absolute equality of
personal rights and rights ofproperty between former masters
and slaves.
So you know that basicallymeans that we free and we are
equal right.
That's what that means.
But one of the key things aboutthat was free.
(05:36):
So if you can imagine, if youcan imagine the reaction, right,
just imagine that you, you knowworking or whatever, whatever
they had you doing.
You know we'll have to get toodeep into it, but you get this
news, you get this information.
I mean those people had to, hadto feel just an immense amount
(05:59):
of emotion to know that.
You know what they were doing.
Yesterday and the days beforethey no longer had to do, they
were truly free.
You know it wasn't a rumor, itwasn't something that they, you
know, had to dream about.
You know it actually came tofruition.
So apparently there was animmediate reaction.
(06:24):
People was walking off theplantation, there were reports
of people bursting into song,dancing and prayers, and so
those first celebrations whichstarted in 1866, were called
Jubilee Day, and these weredeeply personal.
They were church centergatherings, family reunions, and
for a lot of people it was asearch for their family members
(06:49):
who had been sold off andscattered across the country.
They use those gatherings toshare information and try to
piece their families backtogether.
So I have another reallyinteresting fact about
Juneteenth.
This is about the story of MissOpal Lee.
She's known as the grandmotherof Juneteenth, so as a child.
(07:18):
On June 19th 1939, a white mobburned her family's home to the
ground in Fort Worth, texas,because they just never wanted
them in the neighborhood.
You know, just pure hatred.
They didn't want them there.
So this woman dedicated herlife to making sure Juneteenth
was known not just in Texas butby the entire nation.
So for years, at the age of 89,she began a campaign and she
(07:43):
walked two and a half miles incities across the country.
The two and a half miles was tosymbolize the two and a half
years of delay, but it was herpersistence that helped push
Juneteenth over that finish lineto become a federal holiday.
So, I mean, her story is atestament to the fact that even
(08:06):
this holiday wasn't handed to us.
We had to fight for that too,you know.
So this I say all that to saythat the day is incredibly
meaningful, with an incrediblehistory of struggle and
resilience, and for it tofinally have become a federal
(08:29):
holiday, it's just amazing.
But I want to go back to talkingabout that corporate enthusiasm
that we saw in the beginningand how it kind of started to
feel hollow, a littleperformative, if I could say so.
(08:49):
If you'll recall back 2020,during the George Floyd protests
, that's when everybody kind oftried to cash in.
Everybody wanted to show thatthey were on the right side of
history.
You know that they werestanding with you know what was
right, standing for justice, allthese companies and
(09:11):
corporations right.
You saw the Black Lives Mattersand the Fists and all that
stuff everywhere.
But now all of that is dried up.
I mean, you don't see that andit's crazy when you think about
it up.
I mean, you don't see that andit's crazy when you think about
it.
It's kind of like a timecapsule, a moment in time where
just everywhere you saw themassive support and the outcry
(09:31):
from these big businesses.
But hey, man, as time goes on,you kind of understand.
These people are playing a game, right, they're just playing a
game and it's really all comingdown to numbers for them.
So I remember one moment wherethere was it was Walmart this is
(09:57):
probably the most infamousexample Walmart and their
Juneteenth ice cream.
The flavor was, uh, it was thered velvet cheesecake, right,
and the in the uh, it was like apan african colored uh uh
carton and yeah, so that thatwas just wild.
(10:19):
But I remember that and peoplewere rightfully upset.
The backlash was almost instant.
You know.
I remember people saying likehow could you turn something you
know the commemoration of a dayof slavery and being free into
(10:40):
a dessert, a novelty dessert atthat, because you know it's just
going to be something seasonalthat you know is only going to
come around during Juneteenth?
So it was, it was just crazy,and it shows you once again just
how out of touch a lot of thesecompanies and corporations are
when it comes to actual, theactual humanity behind some of
(11:02):
these, these holidays and thesestatements that they make.
I mean, that was just a clear,a clear cut example of cultural
appropriation at its finest.
You know, they took some sacredand just turn it into a
commercial product for people tobuy, and so they can make some
money.
So, of coursemart did pull that, um, and they apologized, but
(11:25):
the damage was already done.
You know, it left a stain, andsome people might not remember,
but, um, I remember that and tome it's like a simple, a symbol,
um, of just how, like I said,just how, how, how they are out
of touch.
You know they could grab on tosomething, just just slap a
price tag on it, but theycompletely missed the point.
(11:47):
You know what I'm saying Likewhat would have been smart was
to actually make some type ofinvestments into underserved
communities or whatever the caseis something like that, but
just creating a product thatpeople could go and buy.
Now, walmart, we are notrocking with that.
It wasn't actually just them,though.
A lot of people ran theseJuneteenth sales, the same way
(12:13):
that you'll see the sales forFourth of July, independence Day
.
It's everywhere.
You see the discounted prices.
You got the red, white and blueall over the place in the
grocery stores and stuff likethat.
Now is that going to be donefor Juneteenth, is it?
I don't know?
You start to see the differentdisparities that come along with
(12:38):
it.
But I say all that to say thisthere's an irony that's really
staggering Around the same time,everything is happening, the
same companies that were so loudabout this diversity and stuff
(12:58):
and standing on the right sideof history and being for the
people and for the people anddoing standing for justice, now
they're quiet Right Now.
We see them, you know, reallyafraid of the political backlash
under Trump's administration,which we don't have to get too
into.
But y'all know what's beengoing on, right, you know
(13:20):
there's political backlash.
These companies don't want tobe seen a certain way for us,
associating with something thatthey may deem as some type of,
you know, support or oversupport of certain communities.
So it really makes you questionif it was ever genuine to begin
with, which I mean obviouslynot because they only do it for
(13:42):
the money.
I mean obviously not becausethey only do it for the money,
but they take it a step further,and I, you know I hate that
this is happening, but I have totalk about it because it's
mostly happening in my, in myhome state, florida.
You know Florida is just gonebonkers with with these laws and
(14:05):
DeSantis has has kind of turnedit into something really ugly.
So I got a few facts Since 2021, lawmakers in 44 states have
tried to pass bills to limit howteachers talk about racism.
18 of them actually passed them.
So I don't know if y'allremember this, but they're
(14:26):
banning what they call divisiveconcepts or critical race theory
, which has become likebasically like a catch all term
for any time you're talkingabout systemic inequality or
you're talking about racism, youknow it just falls under that.
(14:48):
So they don't want to talkabout that in the schools at all
.
So there's even a law thatanything that could make a
student feel discomfort, guiltor anguish because of their race
, it can't be talked about.
So think about it.
Because of their race, it can'tbe talked about.
(15:08):
So think about it.
How can any teacher, how cananybody teach anything about
race or just about historyperiod and not make somebody
feel, I mean, america's historyis uncomfortable, right?
So in essence, they're justtrying to erase everything from
the history books, everythingthat would teach us about the
(15:30):
struggles and what it took tomake this country what it is
today.
Yeah, they don't want to talkabout any of that stuff.
No, jim Crow, no, slavery, no,none of that.
And this is in Florida.
So that's just one of thethings that just you know.
I think about it like that's now.
(15:53):
Like where are we if we don'tmake a change now?
Where are we in the next 10, 15years?
Like, how much is going to beerased?
How much has already beenerased?
So there's also this Stop WokeAct, which woke is a term that
they like to use, whichbasically just means that
they're talking about thingsthat are like kind of benefiting
(16:14):
or you might say not benefitingcertain races, certain
underserved communities.
Anytime that you talk aboutthis stuff, they like to say
that it's some type of wokeagenda, right, and so this woke
act is actually pulling APAfrican-American studies from
(16:36):
schools because they're sayingit has an ideological bias.
So there's a lot of stuff goingon, right, there's a lot of
pushback against the progress ofblack folks that we see going
on, but I will say there is somepositivity within the midst of
(16:56):
it, like I'm not going to talkall negative the whole time.
I know y'all probably listeninglike, oh man, he just he's just
giving it to us raw.
But you know, I wanted to startthat way so I could get into
some some good things and somegood things that's going on.
But it's also just something tobe conscious about.
You know something to beconscious about.
While we celebrate Juneteenth,while we talk about, you know,
(17:20):
the history of our people, wehave to know what's going on in
the present and how there aredifferent forces actively
working against us.
So, like I said, there's, youknow there's it's like a
coordinated effort to whitewashit.
That's the term whitewashingand it's crazy because I
(17:41):
remember hearing that termgrowing up as well, Like in
school, like they would talkabout how the history books
didn't show the full history andI didn't.
I wasn't able to fully graspthe concept because if that's
all you know, that's all youknow.
But now you know, I'm an olderman and I'm able to go and do my
own research and find out aboutthese very important figures in
(18:07):
history, like Miss Opalita Imentioned earlier and what she
did and how you know it changesthe course of history.
The thing is that you don'tlearn.
But if you don't know, youdon't know, and once you know
better, you do better.
But it's interesting to notethat this whitewashing of the
history, you know it's acontradiction, because while we
(18:32):
now have a federal holiday wherewe can celebrate, you know,
black freedom separately fromIndependence Day, which you know
how are we supposed to look atthat?
You know black folks weren'tfree, so what do we really make
of that?
How do we celebrate somethinglike that?
I'll get to that more a littlebit later, because I have some
(18:52):
thoughts on, you know, the 4thof July and those type of
holidays.
But just listen to thatcontradiction.
Right, you know we gotJuneteenth and it's Black
freedom, but now we can't evenallow our kids to learn about
(19:14):
that in the schools.
And some people might argue,hey, like they don't need to
learn about that in schoolanyway.
That needs to be something thatthey could learn at home.
And I agree with that.
I 100% agree with that as well.
But I think that conversationslike this need to be had so that
we have some reminders that,hey, they're not going to teach
us the right way, they're goingto try to cover it up.
(19:36):
Let's remember and continue topass these good stories down.
Let's continue to pass the goodnews down so that it is not
erased.
It can't be erased.
You know what I mean.
So yeah, the story ofJuneteenth I want to say that.
I want to say it's never beenabout the obstacles.
(20:00):
I look at Juneteenth as moreabout the spirit, the spirit to
overcome the obstacles that wehad to face, for every attempt
to push our history back,there's always a powerful surge
of culture, creativity andcommunity pushing forward, and
(20:24):
we see it today.
I don't want to dwell on, youknow, the fight for too long.
I want to talk about theflourishing and celebrate the
joy and the undeniable progressthat really truly defines the
spirit of this holiday.
So one of the most powerfultransformations I see and I feel
(20:49):
that we're experiencingcollectively is this absolute
equality, right, that generalorder.
Number three it wasn't justabout personal freedom, but also
the right to work and to buildand to own, most importantly to
(21:12):
own and I think that legacy isalive and thriving today more
than ever Right?
So the last few years alone, youknow, we've seen a boom in
black entrepreneurship.
As a matter of fact, there'sthere's data that says that the
(21:33):
number of black owned businessesis growing at a faster pace
than it has in years, and Ithink that's not too hard to see
.
Black men and women well, blackwomen particularly, apparently,
are leading the charge.
They have the fastest growing,they are the fastest growing
(21:55):
group of entrepreneurs in thecountry.
So we represent these.
These black women are gettingit, they're getting it and I
think it's a beautiful, tangibleway to celebrate Juneteenth.
As a matter of fact, that'sprobably the best way to to
celebrate Juneteenth bysupporting black owned
(22:18):
businesses.
I mean, you know, in Atlantayou can feel and see that energy
everywhere, right From amazingrestaurants.
You got tech startups, you gotindependent bookstores, fashion
designers like this.
There's a whole array ofindependent black owned business
(22:40):
and commerce.
Independent Black-ownedbusiness and commerce creativity
.
It's a renaissance here and youknow, as you say, you can build
your own table on your ownterms, and I feel like that is a
(23:05):
profound form of freedom inaction and really the essence of
Juneteenth.
So that's like the spirit of,that's the spirit in our culture
.
For so long, you know, thestory of America was told from
that one single perspective.
But now we living in a goldenage of Black storytelling right
and people laugh and people kindof make jokes about Tubi, but
(23:30):
in reality that's a renaissancein itself of Black storytelling.
Right, there's incredible filmson there.
We're in a time where we havegreat best-selling novels by
Black people.
You know groundbreakingtelevision shows, and we're
doing it all just us, on our own.
(23:51):
You know we're able to create,produce, write everything all by
Black hands and you know thatis just something that is
beautiful in itself and it's notjust stories that are about
struggle.
Right, you got joy, love,comedy, adventure.
(24:13):
It's all-encompassing, it's afull scope of human emotions and
reality, black human emotions,experiences and reality in all
of their complexity.
And you know, it just feelsgood to, you know, for us to
finally have that spotlight thatwe have always deserved.
(24:33):
And I know, you know, I couldbet that our ancestors are
definitely proud.
But I want to say this isn't,this isn't like something that's
just happening all of a sudden.
Right, it's not in a vacuum.
It's definitely the result ofgenerations of artists, writers
(24:55):
and creators.
Who is a form of liberation,right, just the fact that we are
flourishing like, yeah, yeah,it feels good.
Right, it feels really good.
(25:21):
Future, you know, you know, canbe written and is written in a
thousand different voices,whereas before, you know, there
may have been few because ofoutside forces that were not
allowing us to speak and expressthe way that we wanted to be
(25:42):
seen and expressed.
So that brings me to whatJuneteenth looks like today.
You know we talked about alittle bit of the history.
You know I gave you the good,the bad, the ugly.
So now, in the present right,four years after we have know,
(26:06):
finally got the nationalrecognition, the national
holiday.
You know we're still like ababy holiday, we're in the
infancy of the holiday, and Ithink that now we have to start
thinking about how we celebrateand moving forward, what it
really means to us and how we'regoing to continue to carry it
(26:27):
if we are to do so.
You know what I mean.
So one of the things that Ithink not only for just, of
course, buying black is probablythe best way.
Just invest in a black-ownedbusiness, go do something that's
Black-owned or whatever it is.
(26:48):
I think that's probably thebest way.
It would be awesome ifJuneteenth every year was that
one day that every Blackbusiness saw an uptick in their
profits.
I feel like that would be adope thing, you know what I mean
Like every black business couldcount on seeing their profits
(27:11):
rise.
You know, you know, being ableto kind of bet on that, I mean,
and really that's how a lot ofthese holidays work.
Anyway, when you think aboutthe economic standpoint, that's
what Christmas is all about,that's what the 4th of July is.
These businesses bank on thesecertain holidays to see an
increase in their income becausethey know people are going to
(27:32):
shop and they're going to buytheir products and things like
that.
So, yeah, let's make Juneteenthbe that day.
Of course, it would be idealthat every day out of the year
we we only buy black.
You know, but hey, we got tostart, we got to start somewhere
.
So I think that would be agreat starting point, just kind
(27:52):
of ensuring like we have a basisthere, like y'all know what
we're doing this year.
This is how it goes.
Everything that you buy todayneeds to be black owned.
So, yeah, I think I think thatwould be a great place to start,
but also things like gatherings.
(28:15):
Of course we got to gather.
That's incredibly important.
Think back to the Jubilee Day.
You know, what they did duringthose Jubilee Days was just kind
of getting together, getting afamily together did during those
Jubilee days was just kind ofgetting together, getting a
family together, you know,socializing, seeing your folks,
that maybe you never saw beforeor maybe you haven't seen in a
(28:36):
good while.
You know.
You know, get the barbecuegoing.
You know there's also somethingthat's going on incredible
right now the festivals, right,atlanta has one, you know, that
draws people from everybackground, right, every race,
to celebrate together.
These festivals are anincredible way to celebrate the
(28:56):
holiday and I think that'sanother key about it too.
Like Everybody can celebrateJuneteenth, right, I don't think
that there needs to be anexclusion there, right, because
when you think about it, whenyou celebrate it, I mean you're
(29:17):
celebrating just a piece ofAmerican history overall.
Like there's no need tofragment things.
I mean, black folks beencelebrating the 4th of July
anyway, like we didn't have aproblem, you know what I mean?
Uh, celebrating that.
So I don't think white folksshould have a problem, or any
other race.
I don't think anybody shouldhave a problem celebrating
(29:38):
Juneteenth.
I mean, I think it could be away to show, you know,
solidarity.
I wouldn't look at it asappropriation.
Just make sure that you'rebeing you as you celebrate.
Like, don't try to, you know,put on some, you know, some
African colors or dashika orwhatever.
The case is Like, just don't gotoo far with it, right?
(29:59):
But you know you could pull upto the cookout if you're invited
.
You know what I mean.
It's all love, so cookout ifyou're invited.
You know what I mean.
It's it's all love, so nah,y'all uh, but yeah, so that's
that's, that's my take on it.
Um, you know, juneteenth, Ithink it's um, like I said,
right now with it just kind ofstill being people I feel like
(30:20):
people kind of like don't knowhow to really celebrate it or
maybe they're kind of still, youknow, confused or don't see the
purpose or the point.
But you know, my goal with thisepisode was just kind of shed a
little bit of light on it, youknow, give some of the history
and then maybe just give a fewways that, if you haven't
(30:43):
already figured out how tocelebrate it, you know, maybe
you could do something you knowto celebrate for next year.
So just keep that in mind.
I do just kind of want to endwith, you know, a closing
message about how we should stayoptimistic.
Right, I'm always going to bethe optimist in the group, in my
(31:07):
family, in my friends, I thinkthat there's always a way to
look toward the silver lining,right?
Because Juneteenth, at itsheart, is a story of hope.
It's a story of resilience.
Think back again to what OpalLee, what her story teaches us.
(31:29):
Think about those first Jubileedays, what that was all about.
Think about the men and womenand how they felt when they
first heard that order.
Right, when they first heardthat order that they were
officially free and it wasn't amyth, it wasn't a rumor.
(31:53):
You know, it was actually theirdreams coming true and a new
path forward in their lives,right?
So that's the type of lightthat I think we need to try to
capture in our minds when wethink about this day.
You know, don't always justthink about the darkness that we
(32:14):
had to to overcome to get here.
Let's just celebrate when wefinally did get here, right, and
I think that spirit is aliveand well.
You know, you see it in thesuccess.
(32:44):
You see it in, you know, blackauthorship, everything that this
Black Excellence campaign hasbeen running and doing for these
past years, and just, you knowhow we've been successful and
soaring and reaching new heightsright In the faces of, you know
, of children.
You know what I'm saying.
In our youth, you know, whenyou see them at the Juneteenth
parade, like that's joy, that'slove.
Right, we got to make sure theylearn about their heritage with
pride.
You know, we got to make sureour families could use this day
(33:06):
to just kind of sit down, evensit down with your elders, right
, record them.
Record you know their oralhistories, ask them questions
about growing up, preserve thosestories of triumph and love,
right, so that it's not lost intime, so that this whitewashing
and this erasing of our historyit doesn't have to happen.
(33:30):
Right, we can preserve it onour own.
We don't have to try to rely onthe school system or anybody
else to teach our history.
We never should have and westill don't have to today.
But we have to remember that wehave to take action about it,
right?
So I want to say that the coremessage of Juneteenth is that
delay doesn't mean defeat.
(33:51):
That's that core message, rightthere.
Delay doesn't mean defeat.
Freedom, once it took root, ithas continued to blossom and
grow in beautiful and unexpectedways and it will continue to in
beautiful and unexpected waysand it will continue to.
So this day isn't just for BlackAmericans, any more than the
(34:11):
Fourth of July is just for whiteAmericans.
I think it's all about.
I think it's about all of usunderstanding and celebrating
what it means to be free period.
Right, because we're all free.
You know, in some sense of theword, we, you know, we got some
ways to go in other senses, butat the end of the day, we could
celebrate, fire up the grill,you know, tell them old stories,
(34:35):
pour the uh, uh, the punch.
You know what I mean.
And let's just celebrateprogress, support the creatives
and uplift our communities.
So, with that being said, y'all,I appreciate you listening to
this special edition of Pops andSon Conversations, and you know
(35:01):
I'm thinking of a new slogan,my check three time slogan.
I've been trying to work onsome.
This is the latest one, though.
I've been trying to work onsome.
This is the latest one, though.
If it matters, if it reallymatters, make sure you check
three times.
Y'all tell me how y'all likethat one man.
You already know where to goPopsandSunConversationscom, and
(35:25):
until next time I'm out.
welcome back to another episode of pops and son
conversations.
Today is just me, son, akacheck three times.
I gave pops a day off.
You know I'm flying this onesolo, but I still have a great
show lined up for you guys.
On this episode, I want to talkabout a holiday that recently
(00:30):
passed, right, and I actuallywant to give you a little bit of
history and some of my personalopinions as well.
So, if you haven't alreadyguessed, this holiday I'm
talking about is Juneteenth,right?
So y'all remember back in 2021,when all of a sudden, it seemed
like Juneteenth became afederal holiday.
(00:52):
So, for a lot of us, I mean, Iguess I could only speak for
myself, right, but I'm stillspeaking for a lot of us.
But you know, it was our firsttime that we really heard that
name, like on a national scale.
I feel like it was one of thosecollective aha moments.
You know, I personally startedGoogling, you know, doing my
(01:16):
little research and trying tofigure out, like you know,
what's Juneteenth?
Like you heard about it, but itwas like wow, so it's a holiday
now, it.
But it was like wow, so it's aholiday now.
So just that little bit ofAmerican history that was kind
of lost on.
A lot of people got brought tothe forefront.
That wasn't necessarilysomething that was taught in
(01:38):
schools.
I remember learning aboutIndependence Day, 4th of July,
but I didn't get the whole scope.
So I, you know, I had to do alittle research and I think a
lot of people, you know, reallywoke up when they got broadcast
on a national scale like that.
And I remember that first year,that first year, like there was
(01:59):
so much energy around it.
You know, you saw theJuneteenth colors everywhere the
red, black and green the bigcorporations were putting out.
You know all these statementsof solidarity and you know it
felt good, like now that I thinkabout it in hindsight, you know
it was crazy.
It was just a great moment inhistory, a great moment in time.
(02:23):
But you know, now this year June19th, 2025, I got to say, you
know it feels a little quieter.
You know I don't know ifanybody has noticed, but you
know I feel like the corporateads have mostly vanished.
You know there was a big socialmedia buzz.
(02:43):
I feel like that's kind of dieddown as well and I don't know,
it kind of seemed like, you know, maybe like the national
spotlight has moved on now, usBlack folks.
You know we continue tocelebrate it, of course, and
many of us had already beendoing that, but I'm just
speaking kind of on the nationallevel.
So when you think about that itmakes you wonder like what
(03:08):
happened?
Did we lose that momentum?
You know, that crucialcelebration, that inclusive
celebration of freedom?
Did we let that fade into thebackground?
So today I actually want to getinto a little bit of that.
You know just the complexhistory of Juneteenth and why,
(03:29):
why is so important in Americatoday.
But before we get into that, Ido want to go back to the
beginning, because some of y'allmight be like me and didn't
really know the full history ofJuneteenth, how it came about,
what it's all about.
So you know, I want to talkabout that a little bit.
(03:50):
So picture this it's June 19th1865.
A union general named GordonGranger arrives in Galveston,
texas, and he is carrying amessage, general Order number
three.
And this order is about tochange everything.
It begins like this the peopleof Texas are informed that, in
(04:13):
accordance with a proclamationfrom the executive of the United
States, all slaves are free.
But here's the kicker, and thiswill get get me this order,
this general order.
Number three it was happeningmore than two full years after
(04:34):
Lincoln's EmancipationProclamation which is what I
learned about in school offreedom.
They didn't tell us that, youknow.
They didn't tell us that noteverybody was free after this
right.
I guess we just kind of skippedover that one in history class,
but that proclamation that wassupposed to free everybody
(04:55):
actually didn't.
So for two and a half years inTexas, you know, people weren't
free, they were still slaves.
But on that day, june 19th, thefreedom was delivered.
It was delayed but it was notdenied.
(05:16):
So it also went on to statethat an absolute equality of
personal rights and rights ofproperty between former masters
and slaves.
So you know that basicallymeans that we free and we are
equal right.
That's what that means.
But one of the key things aboutthat was free.
(05:36):
So if you can imagine, if youcan imagine the reaction, right,
just imagine that you, you knowworking or whatever, whatever
they had you doing.
You know we'll have to get toodeep into it, but you get this
news, you get this information.
I mean those people had to, hadto feel just an immense amount
(05:59):
of emotion to know that.
You know what they were doing.
Yesterday and the days beforethey no longer had to do, they
were truly free.
You know it wasn't a rumor, itwasn't something that they, you
know, had to dream about.
You know it actually came tofruition.
So apparently there was animmediate reaction.
(06:24):
People was walking off theplantation, there were reports
of people bursting into song,dancing and prayers, and so
those first celebrations whichstarted in 1866, were called
Jubilee Day, and these weredeeply personal.
They were church centergatherings, family reunions, and
for a lot of people it was asearch for their family members
(06:49):
who had been sold off andscattered across the country.
They use those gatherings toshare information and try to
piece their families backtogether.
So I have another reallyinteresting fact about
Juneteenth.
This is about the story of MissOpal Lee.
She's known as the grandmotherof Juneteenth, so as a child.
(07:18):
On June 19th 1939, a white mobburned her family's home to the
ground in Fort Worth, texas,because they just never wanted
them in the neighborhood.
You know, just pure hatred.
They didn't want them there.
So this woman dedicated herlife to making sure Juneteenth
was known not just in Texas butby the entire nation.
So for years, at the age of 89,she began a campaign and she
(07:43):
walked two and a half miles incities across the country.
The two and a half miles was tosymbolize the two and a half
years of delay, but it was herpersistence that helped push
Juneteenth over that finish lineto become a federal holiday.
So, I mean, her story is atestament to the fact that even
(08:06):
this holiday wasn't handed to us.
We had to fight for that too,you know.
So this I say all that to saythat the day is incredibly
meaningful, with an incrediblehistory of struggle and
resilience, and for it tofinally have become a federal
(08:29):
holiday, it's just amazing.
But I want to go back to talkingabout that corporate enthusiasm
that we saw in the beginningand how it kind of started to
feel hollow, a littleperformative, if I could say so.
(08:49):
If you'll recall back 2020,during the George Floyd protests
, that's when everybody kind oftried to cash in.
Everybody wanted to show thatthey were on the right side of
history.
You know that they werestanding with you know what was
right, standing for justice, allthese companies and
(09:11):
corporations right.
You saw the Black Lives Mattersand the Fists and all that
stuff everywhere.
But now all of that is dried up.
I mean, you don't see that andit's crazy when you think about
it up.
I mean, you don't see that andit's crazy when you think about
it.
It's kind of like a timecapsule, a moment in time where
just everywhere you saw themassive support and the outcry
(09:31):
from these big businesses.
But hey, man, as time goes on,you kind of understand.
These people are playing a game, right, they're just playing a
game and it's really all comingdown to numbers for them.
So I remember one moment wherethere was it was Walmart this is
(09:57):
probably the most infamousexample Walmart and their
Juneteenth ice cream.
The flavor was, uh, it was thered velvet cheesecake, right,
and the in the uh, it was like apan african colored uh uh
carton and yeah, so that thatwas just wild.
(10:19):
But I remember that and peoplewere rightfully upset.
The backlash was almost instant.
You know.
I remember people saying likehow could you turn something you
know the commemoration of a dayof slavery and being free into
(10:40):
a dessert, a novelty dessert atthat, because you know it's just
going to be something seasonalthat you know is only going to
come around during Juneteenth?
So it was, it was just crazy,and it shows you once again just
how out of touch a lot of thesecompanies and corporations are
when it comes to actual, theactual humanity behind some of
(11:02):
these, these holidays and thesestatements that they make.
I mean, that was just a clear,a clear cut example of cultural
appropriation at its finest.
You know, they took some sacredand just turn it into a
commercial product for people tobuy, and so they can make some
money.
So, of coursemart did pull that, um, and they apologized, but
(11:25):
the damage was already done.
You know, it left a stain, andsome people might not remember,
but, um, I remember that and tome it's like a simple, a symbol,
um, of just how, like I said,just how, how, how they are out
of touch.
You know they could grab on tosomething, just just slap a
price tag on it, but theycompletely missed the point.
(11:47):
You know what I'm saying Likewhat would have been smart was
to actually make some type ofinvestments into underserved
communities or whatever the caseis something like that, but
just creating a product thatpeople could go and buy.
Now, walmart, we are notrocking with that.
It wasn't actually just them,though.
A lot of people ran theseJuneteenth sales, the same way
(12:13):
that you'll see the sales forFourth of July, independence Day
.
It's everywhere.
You see the discounted prices.
You got the red, white and blueall over the place in the
grocery stores and stuff likethat.
Now is that going to be donefor Juneteenth, is it?
I don't know?
You start to see the differentdisparities that come along with
(12:38):
it.
But I say all that to say thisthere's an irony that's really
staggering Around the same time,everything is happening, the
same companies that were so loudabout this diversity and stuff
(12:58):
and standing on the right sideof history and being for the
people and for the people anddoing standing for justice, now
they're quiet Right Now.
We see them, you know, reallyafraid of the political backlash
under Trump's administration,which we don't have to get too
into.
But y'all know what's beengoing on, right, you know
(13:20):
there's political backlash.
These companies don't want tobe seen a certain way for us,
associating with something thatthey may deem as some type of,
you know, support or oversupport of certain communities.
So it really makes you questionif it was ever genuine to begin
with, which I mean obviouslynot because they only do it for
(13:42):
the money.
I mean obviously not becausethey only do it for the money,
but they take it a step further,and I, you know I hate that
this is happening, but I have totalk about it because it's
mostly happening in my, in myhome state, florida.
You know Florida is just gonebonkers with with these laws and
(14:05):
DeSantis has has kind of turnedit into something really ugly.
So I got a few facts Since 2021, lawmakers in 44 states have
tried to pass bills to limit howteachers talk about racism.
18 of them actually passed them.
So I don't know if y'allremember this, but they're
(14:26):
banning what they call divisiveconcepts or critical race theory
, which has become likebasically like a catch all term
for any time you're talkingabout systemic inequality or
you're talking about racism, youknow it just falls under that.
(14:48):
So they don't want to talkabout that in the schools at all
.
So there's even a law thatanything that could make a
student feel discomfort, guiltor anguish because of their race
, it can't be talked about.
So think about it.
Because of their race, it can'tbe talked about.
(15:08):
So think about it.
How can any teacher, how cananybody teach anything about
race or just about historyperiod and not make somebody
feel, I mean, america's historyis uncomfortable, right?
So in essence, they're justtrying to erase everything from
the history books, everythingthat would teach us about the
(15:30):
struggles and what it took tomake this country what it is
today.
Yeah, they don't want to talkabout any of that stuff.
No, jim Crow, no, slavery, no,none of that.
And this is in Florida.
So that's just one of thethings that just you know.
I think about it like that's now.
(15:53):
Like where are we if we don'tmake a change now?
Where are we in the next 10, 15years?
Like, how much is going to beerased?
How much has already beenerased?
So there's also this Stop WokeAct, which woke is a term that
they like to use, whichbasically just means that
they're talking about thingsthat are like kind of benefiting
(16:14):
or you might say not benefitingcertain races, certain
underserved communities.
Anytime that you talk aboutthis stuff, they like to say
that it's some type of wokeagenda, right, and so this woke
act is actually pulling APAfrican-American studies from
(16:36):
schools because they're sayingit has an ideological bias.
So there's a lot of stuff goingon, right, there's a lot of
pushback against the progress ofblack folks that we see going
on, but I will say there is somepositivity within the midst of
(16:56):
it, like I'm not going to talkall negative the whole time.
I know y'all probably listeninglike, oh man, he just he's just
giving it to us raw.
But you know, I wanted to startthat way so I could get into
some some good things and somegood things that's going on.
But it's also just something tobe conscious about.
You know something to beconscious about.
While we celebrate Juneteenth,while we talk about, you know,
(17:20):
the history of our people, wehave to know what's going on in
the present and how there aredifferent forces actively
working against us.
So, like I said, there's, youknow there's it's like a
coordinated effort to whitewashit.
That's the term whitewashingand it's crazy because I
(17:41):
remember hearing that termgrowing up as well, Like in
school, like they would talkabout how the history books
didn't show the full history andI didn't.
I wasn't able to fully graspthe concept because if that's
all you know, that's all youknow.
But now you know, I'm an olderman and I'm able to go and do my
own research and find out aboutthese very important figures in
(18:07):
history, like Miss Opalita Imentioned earlier and what she
did and how you know it changesthe course of history.
The thing is that you don'tlearn.
But if you don't know, youdon't know, and once you know
better, you do better.
But it's interesting to notethat this whitewashing of the
history, you know it's acontradiction, because while we
(18:32):
now have a federal holiday wherewe can celebrate, you know,
black freedom separately fromIndependence Day, which you know
how are we supposed to look atthat?
You know black folks weren'tfree, so what do we really make
of that?
How do we celebrate somethinglike that?
I'll get to that more a littlebit later, because I have some
(18:52):
thoughts on, you know, the 4thof July and those type of
holidays.
But just listen to thatcontradiction.
Right, you know we gotJuneteenth and it's Black
freedom, but now we can't evenallow our kids to learn about
(19:14):
that in the schools.
And some people might argue,hey, like they don't need to
learn about that in schoolanyway.
That needs to be something thatthey could learn at home.
And I agree with that.
I 100% agree with that as well.
But I think that conversationslike this need to be had so that
we have some reminders that,hey, they're not going to teach
us the right way, they're goingto try to cover it up.
(19:36):
Let's remember and continue topass these good stories down.
Let's continue to pass the goodnews down so that it is not
erased.
It can't be erased.
You know what I mean.
So yeah, the story ofJuneteenth I want to say that.
I want to say it's never beenabout the obstacles.
(20:00):
I look at Juneteenth as moreabout the spirit, the spirit to
overcome the obstacles that wehad to face, for every attempt
to push our history back,there's always a powerful surge
of culture, creativity andcommunity pushing forward, and
(20:24):
we see it today.
I don't want to dwell on, youknow, the fight for too long.
I want to talk about theflourishing and celebrate the
joy and the undeniable progressthat really truly defines the
spirit of this holiday.
So one of the most powerfultransformations I see and I feel
(20:49):
that we're experiencingcollectively is this absolute
equality, right, that generalorder.
Number three it wasn't justabout personal freedom, but also
the right to work and to buildand to own, most importantly to
(21:12):
own and I think that legacy isalive and thriving today more
than ever Right?
So the last few years alone, youknow, we've seen a boom in
black entrepreneurship.
As a matter of fact, there'sthere's data that says that the
(21:33):
number of black owned businessesis growing at a faster pace
than it has in years, and Ithink that's not too hard to see
.
Black men and women well, blackwomen particularly, apparently,
are leading the charge.
They have the fastest growing,they are the fastest growing
(21:55):
group of entrepreneurs in thecountry.
So we represent these.
These black women are gettingit, they're getting it and I
think it's a beautiful, tangibleway to celebrate Juneteenth.
As a matter of fact, that'sprobably the best way to to
celebrate Juneteenth bysupporting black owned
(22:18):
businesses.
I mean, you know, in Atlantayou can feel and see that energy
everywhere, right From amazingrestaurants.
You got tech startups, you gotindependent bookstores, fashion
designers like this.
There's a whole array ofindependent black owned business
(22:40):
and commerce.
Independent Black-ownedbusiness and commerce creativity
.
It's a renaissance here and youknow, as you say, you can build
your own table on your ownterms, and I feel like that is a
(23:05):
profound form of freedom inaction and really the essence of
Juneteenth.
So that's like the spirit of,that's the spirit in our culture
.
For so long, you know, thestory of America was told from
that one single perspective.
But now we living in a goldenage of Black storytelling right
and people laugh and people kindof make jokes about Tubi, but
(23:30):
in reality that's a renaissancein itself of Black storytelling.
Right, there's incredible filmson there.
We're in a time where we havegreat best-selling novels by
Black people.
You know groundbreakingtelevision shows, and we're
doing it all just us, on our own.
(23:51):
You know we're able to create,produce, write everything all by
Black hands and you know thatis just something that is
beautiful in itself and it's notjust stories that are about
struggle.
Right, you got joy, love,comedy, adventure.
(24:13):
It's all-encompassing, it's afull scope of human emotions and
reality, black human emotions,experiences and reality in all
of their complexity.
And you know, it just feelsgood to, you know, for us to
finally have that spotlight thatwe have always deserved.
(24:33):
And I know, you know, I couldbet that our ancestors are
definitely proud.
But I want to say this isn't,this isn't like something that's
just happening all of a sudden.
Right, it's not in a vacuum.
It's definitely the result ofgenerations of artists, writers
(24:55):
and creators.
Who is a form of liberation,right, just the fact that we are
flourishing like, yeah, yeah,it feels good.
Right, it feels really good.
(25:21):
Future, you know, you know, canbe written and is written in a
thousand different voices,whereas before, you know, there
may have been few because ofoutside forces that were not
allowing us to speak and expressthe way that we wanted to be
(25:42):
seen and expressed.
So that brings me to whatJuneteenth looks like today.
You know we talked about alittle bit of the history.
You know I gave you the good,the bad, the ugly.
So now, in the present right,four years after we have know,
(26:06):
finally got the nationalrecognition, the national
holiday.
You know we're still like ababy holiday, we're in the
infancy of the holiday, and Ithink that now we have to start
thinking about how we celebrateand moving forward, what it
really means to us and how we'regoing to continue to carry it
(26:27):
if we are to do so.
You know what I mean.
So one of the things that Ithink not only for just, of
course, buying black is probablythe best way.
Just invest in a black-ownedbusiness, go do something that's
Black-owned or whatever it is.
(26:48):
I think that's probably thebest way.
It would be awesome ifJuneteenth every year was that
one day that every Blackbusiness saw an uptick in their
profits.
I feel like that would be adope thing, you know what I mean
Like every black business couldcount on seeing their profits
(27:11):
rise.
You know, you know, being ableto kind of bet on that, I mean,
and really that's how a lot ofthese holidays work.
Anyway, when you think aboutthe economic standpoint, that's
what Christmas is all about,that's what the 4th of July is.
These businesses bank on thesecertain holidays to see an
increase in their income becausethey know people are going to
(27:32):
shop and they're going to buytheir products and things like
that.
So, yeah, let's make Juneteenthbe that day.
Of course, it would be idealthat every day out of the year
we we only buy black.
You know, but hey, we got tostart, we got to start somewhere
.
So I think that would be agreat starting point, just kind
(27:52):
of ensuring like we have a basisthere, like y'all know what
we're doing this year.
This is how it goes.
Everything that you buy todayneeds to be black owned.
So, yeah, I think I think thatwould be a great place to start,
but also things like gatherings.
(28:15):
Of course we got to gather.
That's incredibly important.
Think back to the Jubilee Day.
You know, what they did duringthose Jubilee Days was just kind
of getting together, getting afamily together did during those
Jubilee days was just kind ofgetting together, getting a
family together, you know,socializing, seeing your folks,
that maybe you never saw beforeor maybe you haven't seen in a
(28:36):
good while.
You know.
You know, get the barbecuegoing.
You know there's also somethingthat's going on incredible
right now the festivals, right,atlanta has one, you know, that
draws people from everybackground, right, every race,
to celebrate together.
These festivals are anincredible way to celebrate the
(28:56):
holiday and I think that'sanother key about it too.
Like Everybody can celebrateJuneteenth, right, I don't think
that there needs to be anexclusion there, right, because
when you think about it, whenyou celebrate it, I mean you're
(29:17):
celebrating just a piece ofAmerican history overall.
Like there's no need tofragment things.
I mean, black folks beencelebrating the 4th of July
anyway, like we didn't have aproblem, you know what I mean?
Uh, celebrating that.
So I don't think white folksshould have a problem, or any
other race.
I don't think anybody shouldhave a problem celebrating
(29:38):
Juneteenth.
I mean, I think it could be away to show, you know,
solidarity.
I wouldn't look at it asappropriation.
Just make sure that you'rebeing you as you celebrate.
Like, don't try to, you know,put on some, you know, some
African colors or dashika orwhatever.
The case is Like, just don't gotoo far with it, right?
(29:59):
But you know you could pull upto the cookout if you're invited
.
You know what I mean.
It's all love, so cookout ifyou're invited.
You know what I mean.
It's it's all love, so nah,y'all uh, but yeah, so that's
that's, that's my take on it.
Um, you know, juneteenth, Ithink it's um, like I said,
right now with it just kind ofstill being people I feel like
(30:20):
people kind of like don't knowhow to really celebrate it or
maybe they're kind of still, youknow, confused or don't see the
purpose or the point.
But you know, my goal with thisepisode was just kind of shed a
little bit of light on it, youknow, give some of the history
and then maybe just give a fewways that, if you haven't
(30:43):
already figured out how tocelebrate it, you know, maybe
you could do something you knowto celebrate for next year.
So just keep that in mind.
I do just kind of want to endwith, you know, a closing
message about how we should stayoptimistic.
Right, I'm always going to bethe optimist in the group, in my
(31:07):
family, in my friends, I thinkthat there's always a way to
look toward the silver lining,right?
Because Juneteenth, at itsheart, is a story of hope.
It's a story of resilience.
Think back again to what OpalLee, what her story teaches us.
(31:29):
Think about those first Jubileedays, what that was all about.
Think about the men and womenand how they felt when they
first heard that order.
Right, when they first heardthat order that they were
officially free and it wasn't amyth, it wasn't a rumor.
(31:53):
You know, it was actually theirdreams coming true and a new
path forward in their lives,right?
So that's the type of lightthat I think we need to try to
capture in our minds when wethink about this day.
You know, don't always justthink about the darkness that we
(32:14):
had to to overcome to get here.
Let's just celebrate when wefinally did get here, right, and
I think that spirit is aliveand well.
You know, you see it in thesuccess.
(32:44):
You see it in, you know, blackauthorship, everything that this
Black Excellence campaign hasbeen running and doing for these
past years, and just, you knowhow we've been successful and
soaring and reaching new heightsright In the faces of, you know
, of children.
You know what I'm saying.
In our youth, you know, whenyou see them at the Juneteenth
parade, like that's joy, that'slove.
Right, we got to make sure theylearn about their heritage with
pride.
You know, we got to make sureour families could use this day
(33:06):
to just kind of sit down, evensit down with your elders, right
, record them.
Record you know their oralhistories, ask them questions
about growing up, preserve thosestories of triumph and love,
right, so that it's not lost intime, so that this whitewashing
and this erasing of our historyit doesn't have to happen.
(33:30):
Right, we can preserve it onour own.
We don't have to try to rely onthe school system or anybody
else to teach our history.
We never should have and westill don't have to today.
But we have to remember that wehave to take action about it,
right?
So I want to say that the coremessage of Juneteenth is that
delay doesn't mean defeat.
(33:51):
That's that core message, rightthere.
Delay doesn't mean defeat.
Freedom, once it took root, ithas continued to blossom and
grow in beautiful and unexpectedways and it will continue to in
beautiful and unexpected waysand it will continue to.
So this day isn't just for BlackAmericans, any more than the
(34:11):
Fourth of July is just for whiteAmericans.
I think it's all about.
I think it's about all of usunderstanding and celebrating
what it means to be free period.
Right, because we're all free.
You know, in some sense of theword, we, you know, we got some
ways to go in other senses, butat the end of the day, we could
celebrate, fire up the grill,you know, tell them old stories,
(34:35):
pour the uh, uh, the punch.
You know what I mean.
And let's just celebrateprogress, support the creatives
and uplift our communities.
So, with that being said, y'all,I appreciate you listening to
this special edition of Pops andSon Conversations, and you know
(35:01):
I'm thinking of a new slogan,my check three time slogan.
I've been trying to work onsome.
This is the latest one, though.
I've been trying to work onsome.
This is the latest one, though.
If it matters, if it reallymatters, make sure you check
three times.
Y'all tell me how y'all likethat one man.
You already know where to goPopsandSunConversationscom, and
(35:25):
until next time I'm out.
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