November 12, 2024 • 55 mins
Discover how to foster respect and kindness in today's world with insights from Jill Rigby Garner, founder of Manners of the Heart. Jill shares her transformative journey from personal challenges to establishing a nonprofit that’s influenced over 200,000 students, schools, and families globally. We delve into her latest book, "StrongHeart," which offers guidance on embedding respect, kindness, and integrity into daily interactions. You'll hear some amusing personal stories, including the joys and surprises of raising twins and Jill's love for Talenti sea salt caramel gelato.
In an inspiring conversation, we explore the evolution of Manners of the Heart, an endeavor that goes beyond mere etiquette to instill deeper respect and heart-driven attitudes. Jill shares the trials and triumphs of maintaining this mission over the years, from transitioning to online curriculums to overcoming common nonprofit hurdles like fundraising. We discuss the importance of adapting to new educational formats and the organization's global reach, including connections with schools in Uganda and Mexico City. You'll gain valuable insights into balancing a nonprofit's mission with necessary business aspects.
Finally, we tackle the essential role of parenting in cultivating respect and humility in children, introducing concepts like the "Ruby Rule" and "humble confidence." Jill offers wisdom on how parents can model behaviors that their children will emulate, emphasizing transparency and the importance of fathers in shaping a child's self-perception. We also touch on heartwarming family traditions and discuss the ongoing impact of Jill's work through books and seminars. Tune in to explore how cultivating these values can create a more respectful and connected community.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jill (00:05):
I'm Jill Garner.
Keep listening to the Porch andParish podcast.
Jen G (00:09):
Welcome to Porch and Parish the podcast.
I'm your host, jen Gennaro, andtoday we have a truly special
guest joining us, jill RigbyGarner, founder of Manners of
the Heart.
Jill is a nationally acclaimedauthor and speaker whose work
emphasizes the importance ofrespect, kindness and integrity
in every interaction, startingwith building a solid foundation
(00:29):
with our youngest generation.
Today, we'll be talking aboutthe mission behind Manners of
the Heart and the impact theprogram has had on more than
200,000 students, schools andfamilies over the past 20 plus
years.
We'll also be discussing Jill'slatest book, strongheart.
So grab your coffee, settle inand let's get ready to learn
from Jill about how we can allbuild a better, more respectful
(00:51):
world, one small action at atime.
This is Porch and Parish thepodcast.
Mike (00:59):
Keep listening, we'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
At Porch and Parish we're gearing up for our highly
anticipated winter issue,hitting mailboxes and stands in
mid-January.
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Ad space is available and thisissue is going to be a must-read
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Just email editor atporchandparishcom for our media
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Whether you're a local businessorganization or just have a
(01:29):
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Send it our way.
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excellent, living, engagingstories.
Jen G (01:53):
So first up our lightning round.
You are the mother of growntwins, correct?
Jill (01:59):
Yes, Did you?
Jen G (02:00):
ever attempt matching outfits?
Or was it a lost cause after acertain age?
Jill (02:04):
Did you ever attempt matching outfits, or was it a
lost cause after a certain age?
Well, the truth is, up untilthe age of two I dressed them in
the same outfit, but differentcolors.
But I always did a little trickfor my own benefit, and that
was I always put boys in blue sothat I wouldn't get them
confused, because the B for boysfor blue, and then if the one
was in blue it was always boys.
Just to give me a little extraassurance, I'd get it right,
(02:26):
okay.
Jen G (02:26):
So be honest, did you ever mix them up and not figure
it out until later?
I won't tell anybody.
Jill (02:33):
No, we won't tell anybody.
We won't tell a soul, excepteverybody who's listening today.
Um, I did, I confess I did.
It was actually really kind offunny.
I did it more than once, once,but I'll only.
I'll only tell you the one time.
Okay, once, the one time that Idid it.
Um, so, um, I was in the kitchencooking supper and the knob on
the television kept going up andthe sound kept going louder and
(02:56):
louder and I stepped, steppedaround the corner and said don't
touch the knob again.
And I stepped back in.
Of course, soon as I did, itgoes up again.
So I come back out and I said Isaid so the third time.
I came out and I said, allright, and I took the one that
was closest to the TV, put himnext to the sofa, sitting next
(03:17):
to the other brother, and justfuss and fuss and boy, mom said
da, da, da, da and from now onda-da-da-da.
And the other one was justlaughing his head off and I said
you know, it could have beenyou that got in trouble, chad.
Well, what was so funny is itwas actually Chad who had been
turning the knob, and so I wasfussing at him, but I was
calling him Boyce, you see.
(03:39):
But I thought it was Boyce inthe moment, anyway.
They thought it was voice inthe moment, anyway.
They thought it washysterically funny, anyway.
So I got very frustrated and Isaid well, you know what, sooner
or later, you're both going toget in trouble.
So right now, everybody's introuble.
Go to your corner, sit in thecorners for five minutes, and
I'll be back, because they'revery identical, right.
They are very identical.
Yeah yeah, their friends nevergot them confused very often,
(04:04):
but adults have always gottenthem confused Always.
Jen G (04:08):
Okay, so our next question what is your current
favorite snack obsession?
Oh, that's very easy Talentisea salt caramel gelato.
Oh really, oh yes, oh, I'mobsessed with these wild protein
chicken chips.
(04:28):
Have you heard of these?
Jill (04:30):
I don't know that I want to.
Jen G (04:31):
Oh, Mike teases me all the time, but I eat them every
night.
So they're they're made out ofchicken and they're protein
chips and they're delicious andthey have all the weird flavors
that I like, like salt andvinegar, or buffalo.
Okay, they're delicious, butevery time I'm like mid bite
he'll say I like, like salt andvinegar or buffalo, oh okay,
they're delicious, but everytime I'm like mid-bite, he'll
say something like you know,they just scrape those up off
the factory floor or somethinglike just to gross me out.
Jill (04:52):
Oh yeah, doesn't sound appealing to me, oh well they're
wonderful.
Jen G (04:57):
So more for me.
All right, last question of thelightning round.
What is your dream vacation?
Mountains or beach?
So easy.
Jill (05:05):
The beach.
No, I'm sorry.
Why did I say that?
No, it's the mountains.
Wait, why did I say that it isthe mountains and it's the
colder the better?
I don't know why.
We live in South Louisianabecause my husband and I both
love the mountains.
We just got back from ColoradoSprings and we were so
disappointed that we were therethe week before the snow came,
because the snow came last weekand we had been there just the
(05:26):
week before.
But we love the mountains.
Our favorite spot really is thespot that just took such a hard
hit, and that's in NorthCarolina.
Oh, us too.
That's our favorite Highlands,cashers, asheville, that whole
area, that's my very favoriteplace in the world.
Jen G (05:41):
Yeah, mine too.
I used to work up there everysummer at a summer camp.
Love it, I know.
Jill (05:47):
Okay, anyway I was camp mom one summer.
Jen G (05:50):
Where.
Jill (05:51):
Which camp I stayed at Chasatanga.
Oh, I was at Catalina.
Oh well, that's where.
I remember the boys being there, Boyce and Chad.
They went there several years.
Jen G (06:05):
They were junior counselors one year.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Okay, so I must have just missed them because I only
went my college summers, and soI was just a counselor.
Jen G (06:09):
Oh my gosh.
Jill (06:10):
Yeah, love the truffins, love that.
Mike (06:14):
I was the cook with art.
Jen got me a job yeah that wasa summer.
Jen G (06:20):
We had just met, we were dating.
He came up to camp oh that wasfun.
I came up to camp oh that wasfun.
Mike (06:26):
I got a different experience.
I didn't see much mountains.
Jill (06:29):
Yeah, uh-oh.
Mike (06:30):
Yeah, more meatloaf than mountains.
Jill (06:32):
There are a lot of marriages that have come out of
camp.
Did you know that?
I know, yeah, a lot, a lot, alot.
Jen G (06:38):
Wonderful people.
Yes, all right, so let's getinto it.
Let's get into the mission ofManners of the Heart.
So, kind of give us a quickbackground, tell us how and when
the idea first came to you andwhat is the mission of the
organization.
Jill (06:54):
Well, when Boyce and Chad, my sons, started first grade,
started coming to theirelementary school cafeteria.
In answer to the question ofwhat's happened, there's no
manners, the kids are unruly andthere's nothing that resembles
manners.
And so I had an idea Well,couldn't someone come once a
week, walk around the tables andbring paper napkins, and bring
(07:17):
plastic forks and start teaching?
And so when I brought that upat a parent' meeting, our very
astute principal said well, whatday next week are you coming,
jill Right.
So for the next five years Idid, and I came once a week, and
then it got to be twice a week.
And then, by about the thirdyear, teachers were asking me to
come in their classrooms andlet's teach thank you notes or
(07:38):
teach introductions and all ofthe kind of what we think of as
manners or common courtesies.
And by that point it wasbothering me, because for me
that's etiquette.
Those are rules that we learnto follow, but that's etiquette,
that's not manners.
To me, manners is a much deeperdefinition, that it's really
the attitude of the heart that'sbehind the action and it's
(08:01):
really a self-giving motivationbehind your actions rather than
a self-serving motivation.
And so manners is really theattitude behind the actions.
And so as I started gettingdeeper into those thoughts and
started doing some research ofwhy is all this so important
anyway, it really came fullcircle for me that really
(08:23):
teaching manners and working onthose attitudes behind the
actions really has to be rootedin respect, and that's really
what it's all about isrespectful actions and
respectful attitudes towardothers and so started digging
much deeper into all of that andthe lessons took a deeper turn
and got the parents involved andstarted writing notes to the
(08:46):
parents about here's some thingsyou might could do at home to
reinforce the lesson I'mteaching at school and all of
that.
And then we hit fifth grade andwe were moving on to middle
school and it still was onlittle notes I had written and
scribbled on paper and droppedin a shoebox where I just kept
my notes because I had no clueit was going to be my life's
work yet.
And that summer between fifthand sixth grade, my husband left
(09:10):
us and left us behind.
And so there I was with twomiddle school boys and me and I
had been an interior designer,had been my college degree and
profession stepped back intothat, and it became very clear
very quickly that's not where Iwas meant to be, for many
different reasons.
And so for the next two years Istayed on my knees and I would
(09:31):
go and do my things at thechurch and with the boys in
school and all, and then getback in the corner and say so
Lord, what is it I'm supposed todo with my life?
I've got to do something.
I can't keep staying in thecorner and getting up and coming
back and all the while peoplewere calling because I was Ms
Manners and somebody would calland I'd go talk to a Boy Scout
troop or a Girl Scout troop orsomebody's school.
(09:51):
And finally I got really angryone night and I told God I
wasn't going to talk to himanymore until he put it in black
and white and made it clearwhat I was supposed to do with
my life and I'd do whatever hewanted me to do.
But I had to know what it was,because I couldn't figure it out
.
And the next day I picked up inAlberts.
I was in Albertson's grocerystore, picked up a magazine, a
Woman's Day magazine, which Istill kept, and there the
(10:13):
magazine said manners, wherehave they gone?
Kid you not.
And I said well, I don't answerthat problem.
I've got that.
And there was the epiphany ohmy goodness, wait, everybody's
calling.
Schools have been calling,wanting to know what happened.
Things have changed sinceyou're not here and these
lessons have disappeared.
And what are we going to do?
(10:34):
And I went oh my gosh, okay,well, I'm not a speaker, I'm not
a writer, I'm not an educator,I'm not a psychologist.
So where do I start?
And that was the beginning.
That was in 1998.
And I took about two years towrite the first curriculum,
(10:56):
interviewing lots of teachers,lots of principals living at
School, aids, which Holy ripSchool Aids.
Jen G (11:01):
It's shut down now right.
Jill (11:03):
Jamie Fernberg was so kind to me, take whatever you need
just, and I would go live therefor hours and I'd take books
home and look at curricula andhow does this organized?
And anyway, and don't you knowthat?
Uh, the nea conference nationaleducation association was in
new orleans, of course that nextyear.
So I got a, put it out thereand over a hundred sold, over a
(11:26):
hundred curriculum kits.
And a little school, a littleschool in California and one in
Virginia, and these, you know,little school or a classroom
teacher would buy kit.
And that's where it all started.
Jen G (11:36):
So you wrote a curriculum and then you sold that.
What were you?
How much were you selling itfor?
Jill (11:42):
Oh, let's see.
At that point I think it was$149.
Wow, something like that.
And about two years later Isaid this is the mission of a
nonprofit, that's what this isall about.
And I found it Manners of theHeart as a nonprofit
organization and I reallyhaven't looked back since.
Jen G (12:04):
That is fantastic.
I love that.
I'm inspired, but we'll circleback to that.
It's not about me, right?
Okay, so how has theorganization changed since its
inception?
Jill (12:20):
We have grown.
Hopefully, we had better havegrown in 20 years.
We're in our 22nd year now.
What's been interesting?
I think about Manners of theHeart.
People around us have said onereason that we have survived
this long as a nonprofit because80% of nonprofits are gone
within five years.
The first five years it's evenhigher than that.
(12:42):
In the last five years it'seven gotten higher than that why
do you think that percentage?
um, it's, the non-profit worldis so difficult, um, and it's
not really the rules andregulations as much as it is, um
, trying to fulfill your missionwhile having to raise the funds
in order to fulfill yourmission.
(13:03):
But how much time you mustspend to raise the funds in
order to fulfill your mission.
But how much time you mustspend to raise the funds, you
know that takes away from thefulfillment of the mission.
Right, and it, um, it's, it's avery difficult it's, it's, and,
and you're reliant on.
We're fortunate that we havesomething we can sell so we can
have some self-generated revenue.
So we're not a charity wherewe're totally dependent on, you
(13:24):
know, the generosity of folks,but even with that it's just not
enough hours in a day, you know, to do it all and to do it well
.
That's the hard part, to do itwell.
But so most nonprofits don'tmake it beyond five years.
Like I said, 80% don't make itpast five years.
So those around us who watch usand have watched us for a long
(13:47):
time have said they believe thereason we've survived for so
long is because we've never lostsight of our mission, of our
original mission.
We've never lost sight of itand so it's kept us on course
and it's kept us kind of pureand it's kept us solid and it's
helped us to make some wisedecisions of what to say yes to
and what to say no to.
So it's kept us solid and it'shelped us to make some wise
decisions of what to say yes toand what to say no to.
(14:07):
So it's uh, it's helped us, butto survive.
But back to your originalquestion how have we changed?
What's I find most interestingabout manager?
The heart is we've really we'venever changed our message, nor
have we changed our mission.
But our message hasn't changed,nor will it ever change,
because our message doesn'tchange according to how society
(14:29):
changes or how thoughts come andgo, or the latest parenting
trend, or the new wave ofpsychology, or the new guru
who's hit the scene and has anew answer.
You know, because what we teachis timeless, is timeless truth.
Jen G (14:46):
Has the curriculum adapted at all because of
technology and loans and allthat stuff?
Jill (14:51):
Yes, we have most definitely adapted.
When COVID hit, of course wealready had the curriculum
online.
Of course it was in print,obviously from the beginning.
Of course it was in print,obviously from the beginning.
But we had already pivoted,probably two years before COVID,
so that a teacher who had thecurriculum materials, print
(15:13):
materials, could go online andpull it all up online in PDF
form.
And so we were already at thatpoint then, and in fact we're in
another pivot right now, ofeven doing more online.
It's a.
The curriculum itself is storybased, and so we're right now in
the process of pulling thestories out of the curriculum
(15:34):
and making them children's books, along with animation.
That's our big dream, becausewe do want to reach every kid in
America.
That's been true since thebeginning.
Jen G (15:42):
So to that point, are you guys outside of the Baton Rouge
region?
Jill (15:48):
Oh, we are yeah we're all over the country and we have a
wonderful school in Kampala,uganda, that we've worked with.
This is the fifth year thatwe've worked with them.
It is.
I had a text from the WhatsApp,I guess Is that a?
text Is that considered a textand we go back and forth on
(16:08):
WhatsApp, yesterday from WilfordRugumba, who is the head of
school there, and it's MercyChild Care Center.
It's just a precious school andthe kids often send us videos
because they love to writeoriginal songs and they'll write
a song and perform.
It is just the most preciousthing the, the dialect and the
(16:29):
accent and it's just and eventhe.
They give a new um, the, theway in which they pronounce and
speak the word respect andespecially when they sing, it
just takes you, just totallyunglues you.
It takes the whole idea ofrespect to another level.
It's like it's ethereal orsomething, the way they say it.
It's just beautiful.
Jen G (16:49):
Will you send me that?
I'd love to somehow incorporatethat.
Jill (16:52):
Oh, I'll send you that video.
It's precious.
They're on the porch.
They're on the porch.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
They're on the porch of the school.
Jill (16:59):
That's precious.
And then we're also in awonderful school in Mexico City.
Jen G (17:09):
Like those early curriculum that you sold at
those trade shows or conferences.
Do you track that Like?
Do you know if your program isstill implemented nationwide?
Jill (17:20):
Oh, what a hard question.
We try, we try as best we can.
You know, one of the toughestparts of education, no matter
what you're trying to do ineducation, is the turnover when
a new administration comes in,and so often whatever was is now
(17:42):
gone, whether it's successfulor not.
We have found that to be truetime and time and time again.
Then you go back to ground zeroand you start all over again.
You convince the new folks incharge that, yes, it's as
wonderful as they said, and no,you don't need a different
curriculum.
This you know anyways.
It's always an uphill channel,Always.
And yes, some schools we havetracked, you know, for a long
(18:05):
time.
Many schools we haven't, youknow, we haven't been able to,
you know.
And our curriculum materialsare also sold online, like
through Amazon.
And our curriculum materialsare also sold online like
through Amazon, and we're notprivy to their sales information
.
That's not shared.
So that makes it interestingtoo.
Jen G (18:24):
Well, let's get a little bit more into what Manners of
the Heart is.
So the organization focuses itswork on the emotional wellness
of children through hearteducation.
Jill (18:36):
Can you explain that?
So when you have anunderstanding, as we do, that
the content of the heart,whether it's good, bad or ugly,
determines what a child willthink, say or do, that's where
you begin to gain anunderstanding of what we mean by
heart education, because wefirmly believe that the
(18:57):
education of the heart must be,should be, the heart of
education, because everythingelse comes out of that.
You know, in the last 50 yearsor so, we've really focused on
pouring knowledge into kids'heads and all the STEM education
and we've put boxes, as mymother used to call the
(19:18):
computers.
We've put boxes of every size,shape and form in front of kids
and we've put them in front ofthe boxes and thinking that
technology is going to do it.
But the truth is, when you lookacross education as anyone that
has children or anyone who ison the outside looking in, it's
been a miserable failure and oureducation system is not where
(19:42):
it needs to be.
When you compare children inthe United States to children
internationally, there is nocomparison.
I mean, people who don't knowwould assume the American kids
are on the top in every categoryand that we are in the third
and sometimes in the bottomthird in every comparison you
can think of in literacy,mathematics, science.
(20:03):
Go down the list and you knowwhat's happened.
You know there's somethingterribly wrong and what we
espouse is that we neglected theeducation of the heart.
And until you unlock a child'sheart, their mind is not going
to open to receive the knowledgethat a teacher has to impart to
them.
(20:23):
But the beautiful news is, whenyou do unlock the heart and
there's a heart-to-heartconnection made with a child,
now their mind will open toreceive that information you're
trying to teach them.
But so for us the education ofthe heart really is core.
It is the core of corecurriculum because everything
(20:45):
else comes out of that.
There was a research study doneby Southeastern did a research
study on the energy of the Hearta few years ago and they found
a 28 to 58 percent reduction indiscipline referrals when a
school implemented Manage of theHeart with Fidelity With
Fidelity is the key toeverything in education and they
(21:05):
also had a 15-point gain intheir academic achievement.
Didn't surprise us at all.
But we now have the statisticaldata to prove that when you
work on unlocking the heart andeducation of the heart,
everything else falls into place, and when you don't do that,
nothing falls into place.
Jen G (21:25):
Can you give us an example of how the principles
are implemented into a teacher'sclassroom?
Sure Well, we first start withprofessional development into a
teacher's classroom.
Jill (21:31):
Sure, Well, we first start with professional development,
and we really ask that everyadult on campus attends our
professional developmenttraining, because our goal is
that every interaction a childhas with an adult on campus is a
good one and is one of quality.
And so everyone attendscafeteria workers, the
janitorial staff, the busdrivers, everybody attends.
(21:54):
And what we work on, well, okay.
So everyone attends theprofessional development
training.
And then the way the curriculumitself is implemented is that
every morning the administratorhas a morning announcement and
we provide those because eachmorning goes along with the
lesson being taught that day.
And, just like math or science,we introduce a new concept on
(22:16):
Mondays and there are lessonsfive days a week that are taught
based on that concept.
Like I said, just like math orscience, I mean, a math teacher
is not going to present a newconcept on Monday and not bring
it up again during the week andgive a test on Friday and expect
the children to have learnedanything right.
Same thing is true with Mannersof the Heart.
So there's many different formsof lessons.
(22:39):
Sometimes it's an activity,it's a game, it's a song.
They do lots of differentactivities to keep it
interesting, you know, in a wayof reinforcing the heart
attribute.
And so on Mondays there's aheart attribute and two heart
attributes.
Most weeks that's introduced,and that's introduced through a
story, and it's called theMaryville Stories.
(23:01):
Maryville is this idylliclittle town between the
mountains and the sea.
It's the place every heartyearns to be Wise.
Old Wilbur lives in the one andonly apple tree.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
He's always been there and he always will be.
Jill (23:10):
Did you write that I did?
He's always been there and healways will be.
Did you write that I did?
And, yes, I love Maryville, myboys they were in high school,
middle school and high schoolwhen I was writing all this and
they would knock on the door andsay, mom, are you in Baton
Rouge or Maryville?
We need you in Baton Rouge atthe moment.
And I'd say, hold on a minute,and I'd go walk in the back of
(23:38):
the house and come back out.
Okay, I'm home, boy, what youneed, because I love living in
Maryville.
It's very idyllic andintentionally that way, because
one of the things that's missingin the lives of children today
is idealism.
You know, more times than not,what they see depicted of human
beings on TV or anything on theinternet or wherever they're
looking, is often the worst ofus, it's not the best of us, and
we've forgotten that we need togive children something to
(24:00):
aspire to, something bigger thanthemselves, something better
than themselves, and that's whatMaryville is all about is how
life could be meant to be,should be.
And so a new story isintroduced every Monday that
shows those qualities, thoseattributes we're trying to work
on for the week and then youknow, like I said, we have
different activities during theweek to reinforce that.
(24:22):
The same heart attributes areintroduced each week from pre-K
all the way to second grade andsome schools up to fifth grade,
and um the lessons are ageappropriate.
You know, they build on eachother um as the children grow,
um so the uh introduction andthe um implementation of the
(24:42):
lesson changes.
But the whole school then isworking on the same hard
attributes every week, no matterwhat grade level.
And it's also um the homeroomteacher, the classroom teacher,
really is the one primarilyresponsible in most schools.
It's very adaptable.
Some schools have differentthings, but for the most part
(25:04):
that's the one primarilyresponsible.
Some schools the guidancecounselor will do the
introductory lesson on Mondayand then the classroom teacher
will do the reinforcement lesson.
So there are different ways todo it.
And then there's also a verystrong home connection piece, as
I mentioned.
I did early on, and so everyweek, digitally, a home
(25:26):
connection letter goes homesaying here's what we're working
on this week.
Here's the hard attributes Askyour student to tell you this,
this and this.
We give them questions to askand then we give them activities
and things to do at homereminders that they can do at
home to reinforce the lessonbeing taught in the school.
Last year we introduced a newlittle animated piece, so now
(25:47):
every week has a little shortanimated introduction to that
story and that week's lessonthat the kids can watch at home
with their parents.
Jen G (25:54):
That's sweet, so, speaking of at home with their
parents.
If you could just give onepiece of advice to our listeners
who are parents what is onething that parents can begin
doing today to implement intheir homes?
That would kind of helpfacilitate the principles that
are taught through Manners ofthe Heart.
Jill (26:17):
I would probably start with the Ruby Rule, and it's
something that we came up withand we all know.
The golden rule right Treatothers the way you want to be
treated.
The Ruby Rule is to respectothers the way you want to be
respected, and that begins withthe marital relationship.
That's where it begins is theidea of you know I'm going to be
respected and that begins withthe marital relationship.
That's where it begins is theidea of you know I'm going to be
(26:38):
respectful of you and you'll berespectful of me, and the
children will see that you knowto begin to lead by example in
us and we'll be respectful ofthe children and the children
will be respectful of us, andone thing I often say is that,
um, disrespect is something thatneeds to be called out and
(26:58):
dealt with in the moment,instantaneously, whenever there
is.
I remember growing up if mymother said something and my
shoulder elevated a little, Imean daddy would say do I see
something going on over there?
What is that?
What would you think?
Think something different thanwhat your mother said?
Or if your eyes rolled.
(27:19):
Any form of disrespect needs tobe called out, not in a harsh
ugly way, but I call itpersuasive.
Pressure is what I teachparents, which is discipline,
not punishment.
Punishment is often given, isfear-based, and it's often done
in anger in a moment.
But all punishment does is makea kid feel rotten.
(27:42):
They made a mistake.
But you miss the effectivenessof a punishment when it's
punishment rather thandiscipline.
An effective discipline is anaction taken to change an
inappropriate behavior.
So when you punish a kid fordoing wrong and think about it,
if you're trying to instillgoodness, kindness,
(28:03):
respectfulness, if you're tryingto instill respect in them and
they're barked at for beingdisrespectful, a child looks at
that and says okay.
So what does it look like?
Is that what it looks like?
Is that respect, you know, butwhen it's done with persuasive
pressure.
By that I mean you use do not,don't.
(28:25):
So instead of don't do, blah,blah, blah.
Don't fill in the blank.
It's instead of doing this,we're going to do this, and you
always give the alternative.
So you're always giving theright behavior to replace the
wrong behavior.
That's persuasive pressure,consistent and persistent
reminders, and beyond that, inthe earliest, youngest children.
(28:48):
I'll give you two things.
Say, we have a three or fouryear old and we're going to
begin teaching how to keep theirroom clean.
Well, if you're going toinstill respect, then you have
to instill an other-centeredperspective in your child.
And so, rather than say we'regoing to keep our shoes on the
floor in the closet, we're goingto keep the stuffed animals on
the bottom shelf so your room'snot a mess.
No, we're going to say so thatno one comes in and trips over
(29:10):
it.
We're going to connect you.
We're going to say so that noone comes in and trips over it.
We're going to connect.
You see the difference?
Yeah, we're going to connectwhat we're asking of our
children, the expectation of howit affects those around them,
so that they begin to have thisother-centered perspective of
how their actions affect thosearound them, either in a
positive or negative way.
So that's one thing, and theother thing is, since we're all
(29:33):
in the South, I love it.
I did an interview this morningwith a woman in New Jersey and
I said I know you're not goingto like this, but I'm going to
say it anyway why is it that yessir and no sir, and yes ma'am
and no ma'am are considered assuch a Southern thing?
That's so wrong.
That is the best, best, easiest,most important way of
instilling respect in childrenand a respect for authority.
(29:56):
And when you start it young,it's absolutely incredible.
When it is present, thedifference it makes in
preventive parenting, because itsets in place the understanding
there's a difference betweenchildren and adults.
It sets in place a respect forauthority which translates far
beyond that relationship withyou and your child.
(30:18):
It translates into oh, this ishow I'm supposed to speak to all
adults.
Oh, I'm supposed to listen whenan adult speaks to me, it
translates well.
And when it is not present, andyes, sir and no sir, yes, women
are not taught you set yourselfup for a much more difficult
pathway to helping your childrengain respect for adults and to
(30:41):
gain respect for authority andthen it becomes a rule they have
to follow, rather than becominga part of who they are and
understanding that we giverespect because respect is meant
to be given.
Jen G (30:53):
That's so good.
I do feel like we have we'vedone pretty well with that.
I mean, I grew up in a familythat was very yes sir, no sir,
and it's like nails on achalkboard.
If a kid says yeah, what do youcall them?
Okay, so when you first beganthis, you were not a writer,
educator, speaker.
(31:14):
And now, how many books haveyou published?
Well, it's not a writer,educator speaker.
Jill (31:17):
And now, how many books have you published?
Well, it's all in.
How you want to count it,there's seven curriculum manuals
and three parenting books.
Jen G (31:24):
This is a beautiful book, so I am holding strong heart,
cultivating humility, respectand resiliency in your Child,
which just came out recently,right, july, july, okay.
So can you?
Well, strong heart?
That's something that you'vesaid before in your curriculum,
right?
Okay?
(31:45):
So can you kind of tell us howyou define that and what's the
premise of a strong heart?
Jill (31:50):
Well, I love to tell that story and it's kind of
interesting that you've justdone a story on Diane Lipscomb,
because it was Diane Lipscomb'sschool in Baton Rouge that where
strong heart first came to me.
That thought just went throughmy mind that's a neat
coincidence and she had asked meto be the fifth grade
(32:11):
commencement speaker.
I was so honored I can say I'vebeen a commencement speaker for
fifth grade.
And so as I was working on whatdo these fifth graders need to
hear?
They had had Manners of theHeart at their school for five
years.
So these were Manners of theHeart kids and their discipline,
referrals had gone down,academics had come up, things
were rocking and rolling, and soI thought what do they need to
(32:33):
hear before they go to middleschool?
That's what I need to speakinto their hearts at their fifth
grade graduation.
And so by the time I got to theschool and a couple of weeks
later, strongheart had reallyformulated in my heart, but up
until that point I had not beenusing that term in the
curriculum.
And so I took a whiteboard andI put it on an easel and I drew
(32:55):
the outline of a strong heartwith a big heart and put a
little head and arms and turnedhim into a little character, and
so I asked the kids todayyou're going to teach us because
your manners are the hard kids.
So if I told you this characteris called strong heart, tell me
what do you believe should bein the heart of a strong heart?
Well, these fifth gradersstarted saying things like
(33:18):
obedience and compassion andrespect and all these wonderful
qualities, love and joy andkindness.
And, oh goodness, all theteachers, and the parents
particularly, were just besidethemselves, and so I wrote in
all those beautiful qualitiesand filled in his heart, and
then I took a step back and Isaid, okay, looks like a pretty
(33:40):
strong heart to me.
Here's what you need to hearfrom me today.
You're going into middle schooland a lot of kids in your life,
even some of your closestfriends, are going to get off
track and they're going to tryto pull you off track with them.
And they're going to try topull you off track with them,
and they're going to try to getyou into stuff that you know you
shouldn't.
You should say no to, but youknow what.
We all make mistakes and you'regoing to say yes, and when you
(34:03):
do, I want you to see whathappens to your heart.
And so they gave me somescenarios which turned my head
upside down, because theyalready knew the things they
were going to be asked to do.
And I said so.
You said yes, and here's whathappened.
And I erased a piece of theoutline of the heart, and so we
removed the whole outline of theheart.
And then I said so, you know,this is manager of the heart.
(34:25):
Kids, what's going to happen toall that good stuff if your
heart's broken?
And they said it's going to fallout?
And I said and what gets inwhen the good stuff falls out?
And they said the bad stuff.
I said what happens to love?
And they said hate.
I said what happens to respect,disrespect, and we flipped it
all around, and now we had theseawful heart attributes in front
(34:45):
of us.
And so then I asked a questionthat gave an answer that stunned
everyone in the room, and so Isaid so now who has our strong
heart become?
And a little boy raised hishand and he said oh, I bet he's
(35:06):
a murderer.
We all gasp, but you can nevershow surprise in front of kids
or you'll lose them.
I said well, you know what thatcould be.
And a little girl on the frontrow said, oh, I bet she's really
depressed.
And, as hard as it was to hearthose answers, how amazing it is
that these were fifth graderswith that level of emotional
(35:30):
maturity that they couldunderstand, because they were
absolutely right.
They could understand thegravity of that moment, of what
they were looking at, and I said, ok, well, here's the really
tough question.
And these were fifth graderswho broke Strongheart's heart.
There's silence.
(35:51):
Finally a little hand went up.
It was a little boy and he saidhe did.
I said you're right.
And then you heard she did, wedid, we break our hearts and I
said you got it, you got it.
I mean, there's theaccountability we hope every
child understands, right, andespecially going into middle
(36:14):
school.
Jen G (36:15):
And that's also taking ownership over your own
decisions.
Right, Completely Well,nowadays, all anybody ever talks
about is mindfulness and havinga strong mind, so you're kind
of flipping it on its head,which is, I'm noticing, a trend.
You know you like to pose wordsthat are typically opposites
right, I do.
But why the emphasis on theheart rather than the mind?
Jill (36:40):
Yes, because you know I'll tell you something interesting.
Scientifically speaking, theactual physical manifestation of
this is real.
A lot of research has been donesince about the 60s, sometime
into the 70s, about theheart-mind connection and the
physiology is really interestingbecause it is actually true
(37:02):
that there's more I forgot whatyou call the word.
There are more neurons, maybe,okay, going from the heart to
the mind than from the mind tothe heart.
Things fire often, more oftenfrom the heart to the mind than
they do from the mind to theheart, interesting heart to the
(37:23):
mind than they do from the mindto the heart.
And one of the things, like Imentioned earlier, is that
what's in the heart, the contentof the heart, whether it's good
, whether it's bad or whetherit's ugly, right, which is, you
know, the good things that arethere, the bad things that are
there, or the things that havebeen done to a child that caused
trouble that's what I mean bythe ugliness Determines the
(37:46):
content of the heart, determineswhat a child will think and
what he will say and what hewill do One day.
A little second grade boy saidMiss Jill, I got it.
I said what you got and he saidwhat comes out of here and he's
pointing to his mouth, camefrom down in here and he pointed
to his heart.
I said, buddy, you got it, yougot it.
(38:07):
And that's that's why I cringewhen I hear so much discussion
and I read I've.
There's never a day that goesby that I'm not reading another,
the latest, something right,and then this whole world, this
whole area of of interest.
But I cringe when I readsomething else about mindfulness
, because we've got it upsidedown.
(38:27):
We truly do.
And again, the evidence, sosadly, is all around us.
All of the statistics that wewant to see go down, keep
escalating, the anxiety, thedepression, suicide, all of the
things that our young adults andteenagers are dealing with
today, all the numbers are goingin the wrong direction.
(38:48):
And yet, you know, I livefrustrated.
I say frustrated all the timebecause I know we have an answer
.
We can't get enough people tohear it.
Jen G (39:02):
It starts at home, right, so it's something we can all do
at home today.
So you mentioned self-respectin your definition of strong
heart, not self-esteem.
What's the difference?
Jill (39:15):
Go back again to the 60s and 70s.
If we gave one person creditfor telling us we needed
self-esteem, it would be CarlRogers, who was the grandfather
of humanism.
And the word self-esteem wasactually coined in the 1890s
kind of stayed nowhere, and thenit popped up into the clinical
circles around the 1920s to the1940s and then when the 60s hit
(39:40):
and everything went crazy whichy'all have only heard about, but
I know about.
Everything went crazy whichy'all have only heard about, but
I know about when everythingwent wild, that's when Carl
Rogers interjected into oursociety that you know what the
kids didn't feel good aboutthemselves.
The 50s were too rigid.
They had to break out and whatthey now need is to feel good
(40:00):
about themselves.
And that's what we need to do.
And we have been doing that now, totally obsessed with the
building of self-esteem, for 60years or more.
And again the roof is in thepudding, we were told.
The promises of self-esteem werethat we would get along better
because people would feel goodabout themselves.
(40:22):
People would have tremendousconfidence about themselves.
People would have tremendousconfidence.
This is kind of almost funny tome.
Anxiety would go down.
Of course that's an epidemicproblem today.
The levels of anxiety, vitriolwould go down, less violence.
We would just be better peopleand more peaceful, and everyone
(40:43):
would get along better andthings would be good.
If we esteemed ourselves Well,therein lies the problem,
because that is the truestdefinition of self-esteem is the
esteeming of self.
Now, we understood eons ago thatvainglory vanity, pumping
oneself up, was considered veryin poor taste at the minimum and
(41:06):
very damaging and dangerous atthe at the most.
Um, one of the foremostresearchers in this whole world
of um self-esteem was RoyBymeister out of um, uh, florida
, and then he moved toCalifornia later at Stanford.
But he really was jumped on theself-esteem bandwagon in the
70s until he was involved in afive-year research study on why
(41:29):
kids got into trouble at the ageof 13, and by 20 they had a rap
sheet and were hardenedcriminals.
And what could we do to changethat?
The hypothesis was that theyhad low self-esteem and going
into the study.
Well, at the end of the studythey found the converse to be
true.
It was high self-esteem thatcaused them to become criminals.
(41:52):
It was the sense of entitlement.
And you have shoes that I'llnever have.
I'm going to do what I've gotto do to get those shoes.
You have what I want.
I can't see how I'm going toget it, so I'm going to take it.
Jen G (42:04):
So high self-esteem can lead to just this.
What was the word?
You just Entitlement,entitlement, thank you.
But then, going to the nextpoint, you also talk about
humble confidence a lot.
So how do you strike the rightbalance between having healthy
self-respect, self-esteem, butbeing humble.
Jill (42:25):
Yes, so self-esteem and self-respect to me are polar
opposites.
Many think that they'resynonyms, but they're not.
They are absolutely polaropposites.
Self-esteem comes from theesteeming of self, while
self-respect comes from theesteeming of others.
If you think about being facedwith disrespect, well, our
(42:49):
natural inclination is to hitback right.
But if we choose to returnrespect when we've been met with
disrespect, we actually are thestronger of the two people
right in that interaction,because we are choosing to stand
strong and not returndisrespect with disrespect.
So we're actually the strongerperson.
(43:10):
But what does it take to dothat?
It takes tremendous humility tobe able to do that, and it's in
those humble actions that weactually gain confidence.
And I love to put those twowords together.
As you said, humble confidence.
I love to put those two wordstogether.
As you said, humble confidence.
(43:31):
And interestingly, when we thinkabout humility, many people
think of a doormat or someonewho just always puts someone
else ahead of themselves.
But truly, someone once saidhumility is not thinking of
yourself.
Thinking less of yourself isthinking of yourself less, which
I love, that definition ofhumility.
So it's not the idea of puttingyour head down and you know as
(43:52):
we think of.
You know, the little kid who'slooking down and, you know, is
scared and walking away.
No, no, no, no.
It's actually the one who isthinking of how can I serve
others, how can I be the bestthat I can be?
We don't think about it as ahumble person, but truly it is.
To give you just an example ofthat the Bible tells us that
(44:14):
Moses most people, whatever yourfaith, understand Moses, know
Moses, who led the people out ofEgypt, a strong leader, and yet
the Bible tells us that Moseswas the most humble man on earth
.
Well, how can that be?
It's because we've misconstruedthe definition of humility.
Humility is actually strength.
Humility is not a person ofweakness and humility a truly
(44:38):
humble person.
It's more about your attitude,the reason behind what you're
doing.
So think of it in this way thekid who works really, really,
really, really hard to becomethe best math student you know
in the class.
But the reason isn't so that hegets a trophy, because he could
care less about a trophy.
It's so that he can master thatskill, because it comes easy
(45:00):
for him and he can feel thathe's good at it and it comes
easy.
But his motive isn't to get thetrophy.
It's so that he can feel thathe's good at it and it comes
easy.
But his motive isn't to get thetrophy, it's so that he can
turn around and help the otherkids who are struggling with it
learn what he's learned.
Oh, you see what I mean.
Yeah, tremendous humility.
Mike (45:15):
But he's the number one math kid in the class yeah, yeah
humble confidence I have apractical question how many
mirrors should a teenage girlhave in her room?
Jill (45:31):
One very small mirror, don't you think?
One and I have no idea what youjust brought me into here.
It's not my fault.
Mike (45:39):
It's not a debate.
It's not an ongoing debate.
Jill (45:41):
It's not my fault.
Mike (45:43):
I was an only child.
I grew up with a lot of mirrorsin my room and I noticed, when
you go places like vacation orlike let's take camp, like
Chasatonga, catalina, yeah,there are no mirrors, no, and
you end up focusing on otherimportant things in life.
You know, it's almost likethat's the first thing that came
(46:04):
to mind here as far as raisingmy own kids.
It's like they're very focused.
They go in their rooms on theirphones, on their devices.
They look at themselves.
They're not thinking aboutothers, even though our kids are
great.
Jill (46:18):
Do you know that the analogy I use is the mirror or
the window?
Mike (46:22):
Interesting Okay.
Jill (46:23):
Did you know that?
Mike (46:24):
I heard you say it earlier though.
Jill (46:27):
I've wondered.
I was like, wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, I think of the, the, theword picture that I give people
the imagery that I like to give,because a lot of these concepts
are very hard for people tograsp a young parents, because
it's so counter-cultural, but weknow it's to be timeless truth.
But, um, if you think of themirror of self-esteem and, um,
(46:48):
you know, kids don't pick up amirror.
We put the mirror in front ofthem, we put a hand, them to
them.
But here's the deal if you'relooking in a mirror, who do you
see yourself right and who doyou not see?
others right, because you can'tsee through the mirror.
And in the mirror ofself-esteem, kids can't see the
possibilities of who they canbecome.
They can see what's behind themin the mirror, right but they
(47:11):
can't see what's in front ofthem.
And here's the key that youwere alluding to the longer a
kid is being raised in themirror of self-esteem, the more
loss they get in themselves.
And we know as ladies, right,we know as as ladies that, jen,
that the longer you look in themirror, the things look better
or worse, typically not better.
Mike (47:31):
Oh yeah, we get the 10x mirrors, so we can see like
every pore too.
Jill (47:35):
You know like I know, and then that little pin dot that
you're trying to cover up is nowthe size of a quarter yeah it's
like, oh gosh, and so what?
so what happens?
The longer they get look in themirror, they get lost in
themselves and one of two thingshappen.
Either they become entitled,right, self-conceited and it's
going to be all about me, it'sabout me, it's about me and what
(47:55):
am I going to get and what'swhat's coming my way tomorrow,
what am I doing this weekend?
And you know we're goingshopping again and you know it's
all about me.
Or they become self-conceitedbecause they I mean
self-conscious, because they getlost in themselves and therein
they fall into all of the wrongbehaviors and everything we're
trying to keep desperately tokeep them away from.
(48:15):
But it's not high and lowself-esteem, it's the whole
issue of being lost in themirror, of self-esteem lost in
the mirror oh gosh you have justgiven him so much ammo and I'm
never gonna hear the end.
Mike (48:28):
I'm so sorry I'm gonna go inside.
Lucy, a parenting expert, toldme that this is your new
consequence if you aredisrespectful, take your
full-length mirror out.
Jen G (48:40):
I'm so sorry, don't hate me okay, so you offer a strong
word for dads and their role inthe moral decline of our culture
.
How does that relate to raisinga strong heart?
Jill (48:53):
Okay, so Jen just got you back.
I did, I did, jen just got youback.
So I believe the greatest okay,I'm going to really be tough to
say responsibility instead ofrole the greatest responsibility
I believe a dad has in the homeis to be the man that he wants
(49:15):
his daughter to marry, ouch, andto be the man he wants his son
to become.
Jen G (49:23):
Agree completely.
I don't think anybody woulddisagree, right, I mean?
Jill (49:27):
that's a that's a lot.
That's a lot but and no onedoes it perfectly, of course,
and we can't do anything any ofit perfectly but one of the
things we can become so guiltyof as parents is, uh, and we
don't mean to do this, but wefall into this trap of expecting
more of our children than we doof ourselves.
You know, we'll let ourselvesoff the hook because we're
(49:49):
working and we're busy and wegot so much going on and gosh,
we got four kids and you know.
But the truth is we can teachkids what we know, but they're
going to emulate who we are andwe don't do it perfectly.
And when we mess up, we ask forforgiveness, and that's part of
our duty really is to betransparent and let them see we
(50:12):
make mistakes, just like you do.
Jen G (50:15):
Talk about the mirror of self-reflection as your kids
start to get older and they'lldo a gesture or something I'm
like, oh my gosh, looking in amirror, yeah.
Jill (50:25):
I know what you mean I know.
Jen G (50:27):
Okay, we've kept you here for over an hour at this point.
Mike (50:30):
I love this and we got a new camp friend.
Jen G (50:32):
Yeah, we do have a camp friend, that's so cool.
Mike (50:35):
Anybody else out there go to summer camps in North
Carolina?
Let us know.
Especially Catalina andChasatonga.
That holds a special place inthe heart.
Jill (50:46):
And there especially catalina and chasatonga, that
that holds a special place inthe heart too, and there's a lot
, as you know, in louisiana.
Yeah, there's a lot of kidsfrom louisiana to go up there.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
I said that summer I went.
Jill (50:51):
I stayed six weeks.
It was heaven I did the highropes course, the junior
counselor girls the day before Iwas leaving said miss, jill,
you haven't done the high ropescourse.
I said that's okay, I know Iwasn't intended.
Yes, miss, you're doing it.
And they drug me up and I didit.
It's life-changing, reallylife-changing.
Jen G (51:10):
Charged with teaching that one day and I could not go
through with it.
I couldn't, but I did leadcaving expeditions and also
trips on the Appalachian trailfor 10 days at a time.
Hey, that's big.
But I didn't even know.
I had a fear of heights of time.
Hey, that's big but I didn'teven know.
I had a fear of heights.
So I do want to get to one morething.
In the closing pages of thebook you share the armor prayer
God gave you more than 25 yearsago as a way of preparing your
(51:33):
heart and protecting your familyfor each new day.
Would you recite that for us?
Jill (51:38):
I will I will.
Jen G (51:40):
Do you need a cheat sheet ?
Jill (51:41):
No, I do not need a cheat sheet.
I did not think you did.
I don't.
I started praying that whenboys in first grade and my
husband and I pray it.
Now I do.
The Lord sent me a beautifulman 16 years ago.
Next week I'm still on ourhoneymoon.
I'm so proud to say, anyway,sweetest man on earth, I know
you have a sweet one, but I'msorry, mine's the sweetest and
(52:04):
anyway.
But we pray it every morningand we hug and embrace and we
pray it on behalf of ourgrandchildren now.
So the prayer goes like thisLord, place upon her, and we say
singular plural pronouns.
So we say, lord, place upon ourhead because the two have
become one in marriage, right?
So, lord, place upon our headthe helmet of salvation to
(52:26):
protect our mind.
Place upon our chest thebreastplate of righteousness to
protect our heart.
Buckle around us the belt oftruth that we would know the
truth and speak the truth, thatwe would not be deceived.
Nor would we deceive Lord,we'll carry the sword of the
Spirit, your word, as anoffensive weapon.
Enable us to walk in the pathof peace you lay before us this
(52:48):
day, not stepping to the left orto the right, but walking in
its narrow way, with the HolySpirit dwelling within, with
Jesus Christ, our brother,standing with us and with you,
the Lord, god Almighty,empowering us, and with you, the
Lord, god Almighty empoweringus.
We will stand and hold theshield of faith this day for
(53:10):
Garrett, allie, jack, austin,Kate, addison and Elliot, until
each can carry it in their ownfaith In Jesus' name amen.
Jen G (53:21):
Amen.
That is so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that withus.
You're so welcome.
I would like for our listenersto know that the proceeds from
your book Speaking in All thatyou Do goes to Manners of the
Heart to help further themission God has given you.
So we just we want to thank youfor all that you've done for
our community and for being withus here today.
And how can people interestedin your books or in adopting
(53:47):
your curriculum get a hold ofyou?
Jill (53:49):
Yes, they can visit mannersoftheheartorg to learn
more about our curriculum workand to learn more about our
parenting work.
We do a lot of parentingseminars and workshops one night
, or sometimes we do a wholeweekend series, like through
churches, friday night, andSaturday series as well, and
they can go tojillgarnercontentorg to learn
(54:10):
more about that aspect of ourwork.
Jen G (54:13):
I love that.
I'm already writing down alittle note.
We're going to get a littleparenting retreat going up.
That's cool, all righty.
Ms Jill, thank you so much,it's been a pleasure, thank you,
it's a pleasure.
Jill (54:24):
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you.
The pleasure's been all mine.
Thank you, bye.
I'm Jill Garner.
Keep listening to the Porch andParish podcast.
Jen G (00:09):
Welcome to Porch and Parish the podcast.
I'm your host, jen Gennaro, andtoday we have a truly special
guest joining us, jill RigbyGarner, founder of Manners of
the Heart.
Jill is a nationally acclaimedauthor and speaker whose work
emphasizes the importance ofrespect, kindness and integrity
in every interaction, startingwith building a solid foundation
(00:29):
with our youngest generation.
Today, we'll be talking aboutthe mission behind Manners of
the Heart and the impact theprogram has had on more than
200,000 students, schools andfamilies over the past 20 plus
years.
We'll also be discussing Jill'slatest book, strongheart.
So grab your coffee, settle inand let's get ready to learn
from Jill about how we can allbuild a better, more respectful
(00:51):
world, one small action at atime.
This is Porch and Parish thepodcast.
Mike (00:59):
Keep listening, we'll be right back.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
At Porch and Parish we're gearing up for our highly
anticipated winter issue,hitting mailboxes and stands in
mid-January.
If you've been looking for away to reach the Zachary
community, now is the time tosecure your spot.
Ad space is available and thisissue is going to be a must-read
.
Just email editor atporchandparishcom for our media
kit and pricing details.
Whether you're a local businessorganization or just have a
(01:29):
message to share, we've got theperfect placement for you and,
as always, we want to hear fromyou.
Have a feature story idea orknow someone with an inspiring
tale?
Send it our way.
Help us shine a light on whatmakes our community so special.
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excellent, living, engagingstories.
Jen G (01:53):
So first up our lightning round.
You are the mother of growntwins, correct?
Jill (01:59):
Yes, Did you?
Jen G (02:00):
ever attempt matching outfits?
Or was it a lost cause after acertain age?
Jill (02:04):
Did you ever attempt matching outfits, or was it a
lost cause after a certain age?
Well, the truth is, up untilthe age of two I dressed them in
the same outfit, but differentcolors.
But I always did a little trickfor my own benefit, and that
was I always put boys in blue sothat I wouldn't get them
confused, because the B for boysfor blue, and then if the one
was in blue it was always boys.
Just to give me a little extraassurance, I'd get it right,
(02:26):
okay.
Jen G (02:26):
So be honest, did you ever mix them up and not figure
it out until later?
I won't tell anybody.
Jill (02:33):
No, we won't tell anybody.
We won't tell a soul, excepteverybody who's listening today.
Um, I did, I confess I did.
It was actually really kind offunny.
I did it more than once, once,but I'll only.
I'll only tell you the one time.
Okay, once, the one time that Idid it.
Um, so, um, I was in the kitchencooking supper and the knob on
the television kept going up andthe sound kept going louder and
(02:56):
louder and I stepped, steppedaround the corner and said don't
touch the knob again.
And I stepped back in.
Of course, soon as I did, itgoes up again.
So I come back out and I said Isaid so the third time.
I came out and I said, allright, and I took the one that
was closest to the TV, put himnext to the sofa, sitting next
(03:17):
to the other brother, and justfuss and fuss and boy, mom said
da, da, da, da and from now onda-da-da-da.
And the other one was justlaughing his head off and I said
you know, it could have beenyou that got in trouble, chad.
Well, what was so funny is itwas actually Chad who had been
turning the knob, and so I wasfussing at him, but I was
calling him Boyce, you see.
(03:39):
But I thought it was Boyce inthe moment, anyway.
They thought it was voice inthe moment, anyway.
They thought it washysterically funny, anyway.
So I got very frustrated and Isaid well, you know what, sooner
or later, you're both going toget in trouble.
So right now, everybody's introuble.
Go to your corner, sit in thecorners for five minutes, and
I'll be back, because they'revery identical, right.
They are very identical.
Yeah yeah, their friends nevergot them confused very often,
(04:04):
but adults have always gottenthem confused Always.
Jen G (04:08):
Okay, so our next question what is your current
favorite snack obsession?
Oh, that's very easy Talentisea salt caramel gelato.
Oh really, oh yes, oh, I'mobsessed with these wild protein
chicken chips.
(04:28):
Have you heard of these?
Jill (04:30):
I don't know that I want to.
Jen G (04:31):
Oh, Mike teases me all the time, but I eat them every
night.
So they're they're made out ofchicken and they're protein
chips and they're delicious andthey have all the weird flavors
that I like, like salt andvinegar, or buffalo.
Okay, they're delicious, butevery time I'm like mid bite
he'll say I like, like salt andvinegar or buffalo, oh okay,
they're delicious, but everytime I'm like mid-bite, he'll
say something like you know,they just scrape those up off
the factory floor or somethinglike just to gross me out.
Jill (04:52):
Oh yeah, doesn't sound appealing to me, oh well they're
wonderful.
Jen G (04:57):
So more for me.
All right, last question of thelightning round.
What is your dream vacation?
Mountains or beach?
So easy.
Jill (05:05):
The beach.
No, I'm sorry.
Why did I say that?
No, it's the mountains.
Wait, why did I say that it isthe mountains and it's the
colder the better?
I don't know why.
We live in South Louisianabecause my husband and I both
love the mountains.
We just got back from ColoradoSprings and we were so
disappointed that we were therethe week before the snow came,
because the snow came last weekand we had been there just the
(05:26):
week before.
But we love the mountains.
Our favorite spot really is thespot that just took such a hard
hit, and that's in NorthCarolina.
Oh, us too.
That's our favorite Highlands,cashers, asheville, that whole
area, that's my very favoriteplace in the world.
Jen G (05:41):
Yeah, mine too.
I used to work up there everysummer at a summer camp.
Love it, I know.
Jill (05:47):
Okay, anyway I was camp mom one summer.
Jen G (05:50):
Where.
Jill (05:51):
Which camp I stayed at Chasatanga.
Oh, I was at Catalina.
Oh well, that's where.
I remember the boys being there, Boyce and Chad.
They went there several years.
Jen G (06:05):
They were junior counselors one year.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Okay, so I must have just missed them because I only
went my college summers, and soI was just a counselor.
Jen G (06:09):
Oh my gosh.
Jill (06:10):
Yeah, love the truffins, love that.
Mike (06:14):
I was the cook with art.
Jen got me a job yeah that wasa summer.
Jen G (06:20):
We had just met, we were dating.
He came up to camp oh that wasfun.
I came up to camp oh that wasfun.
Mike (06:26):
I got a different experience.
I didn't see much mountains.
Jill (06:29):
Yeah, uh-oh.
Mike (06:30):
Yeah, more meatloaf than mountains.
Jill (06:32):
There are a lot of marriages that have come out of
camp.
Did you know that?
I know, yeah, a lot, a lot, alot.
Jen G (06:38):
Wonderful people.
Yes, all right, so let's getinto it.
Let's get into the mission ofManners of the Heart.
So, kind of give us a quickbackground, tell us how and when
the idea first came to you andwhat is the mission of the
organization.
Jill (06:54):
Well, when Boyce and Chad, my sons, started first grade,
started coming to theirelementary school cafeteria.
In answer to the question ofwhat's happened, there's no
manners, the kids are unruly andthere's nothing that resembles
manners.
And so I had an idea Well,couldn't someone come once a
week, walk around the tables andbring paper napkins, and bring
(07:17):
plastic forks and start teaching?
And so when I brought that upat a parent' meeting, our very
astute principal said well, whatday next week are you coming,
jill Right.
So for the next five years Idid, and I came once a week, and
then it got to be twice a week.
And then, by about the thirdyear, teachers were asking me to
come in their classrooms andlet's teach thank you notes or
(07:38):
teach introductions and all ofthe kind of what we think of as
manners or common courtesies.
And by that point it wasbothering me, because for me
that's etiquette.
Those are rules that we learnto follow, but that's etiquette,
that's not manners.
To me, manners is a much deeperdefinition, that it's really
the attitude of the heart that'sbehind the action and it's
(08:01):
really a self-giving motivationbehind your actions rather than
a self-serving motivation.
And so manners is really theattitude behind the actions.
And so as I started gettingdeeper into those thoughts and
started doing some research ofwhy is all this so important
anyway, it really came fullcircle for me that really
(08:23):
teaching manners and working onthose attitudes behind the
actions really has to be rootedin respect, and that's really
what it's all about isrespectful actions and
respectful attitudes towardothers and so started digging
much deeper into all of that andthe lessons took a deeper turn
and got the parents involved andstarted writing notes to the
(08:46):
parents about here's some thingsyou might could do at home to
reinforce the lesson I'mteaching at school and all of
that.
And then we hit fifth grade andwe were moving on to middle
school and it still was onlittle notes I had written and
scribbled on paper and droppedin a shoebox where I just kept
my notes because I had no clueit was going to be my life's
work yet.
And that summer between fifthand sixth grade, my husband left
(09:10):
us and left us behind.
And so there I was with twomiddle school boys and me and I
had been an interior designer,had been my college degree and
profession stepped back intothat, and it became very clear
very quickly that's not where Iwas meant to be, for many
different reasons.
And so for the next two years Istayed on my knees and I would
(09:31):
go and do my things at thechurch and with the boys in
school and all, and then getback in the corner and say so
Lord, what is it I'm supposed todo with my life?
I've got to do something.
I can't keep staying in thecorner and getting up and coming
back and all the while peoplewere calling because I was Ms
Manners and somebody would calland I'd go talk to a Boy Scout
troop or a Girl Scout troop orsomebody's school.
(09:51):
And finally I got really angryone night and I told God I
wasn't going to talk to himanymore until he put it in black
and white and made it clearwhat I was supposed to do with
my life and I'd do whatever hewanted me to do.
But I had to know what it was,because I couldn't figure it out
.
And the next day I picked up inAlberts.
I was in Albertson's grocerystore, picked up a magazine, a
Woman's Day magazine, which Istill kept, and there the
(10:13):
magazine said manners, wherehave they gone?
Kid you not.
And I said well, I don't answerthat problem.
I've got that.
And there was the epiphany ohmy goodness, wait, everybody's
calling.
Schools have been calling,wanting to know what happened.
Things have changed sinceyou're not here and these
lessons have disappeared.
And what are we going to do?
(10:34):
And I went oh my gosh, okay,well, I'm not a speaker, I'm not
a writer, I'm not an educator,I'm not a psychologist.
So where do I start?
And that was the beginning.
That was in 1998.
And I took about two years towrite the first curriculum,
(10:56):
interviewing lots of teachers,lots of principals living at
School, aids, which Holy ripSchool Aids.
Jen G (11:01):
It's shut down now right.
Jill (11:03):
Jamie Fernberg was so kind to me, take whatever you need
just, and I would go live therefor hours and I'd take books
home and look at curricula andhow does this organized?
And anyway, and don't you knowthat?
Uh, the nea conference nationaleducation association was in
new orleans, of course that nextyear.
So I got a, put it out thereand over a hundred sold, over a
(11:26):
hundred curriculum kits.
And a little school, a littleschool in California and one in
Virginia, and these, you know,little school or a classroom
teacher would buy kit.
And that's where it all started.
Jen G (11:36):
So you wrote a curriculum and then you sold that.
What were you?
How much were you selling itfor?
Jill (11:42):
Oh, let's see.
At that point I think it was$149.
Wow, something like that.
And about two years later Isaid this is the mission of a
nonprofit, that's what this isall about.
And I found it Manners of theHeart as a nonprofit
organization and I reallyhaven't looked back since.
Jen G (12:04):
That is fantastic.
I love that.
I'm inspired, but we'll circleback to that.
It's not about me, right?
Okay, so how has theorganization changed since its
inception?
Jill (12:20):
We have grown.
Hopefully, we had better havegrown in 20 years.
We're in our 22nd year now.
What's been interesting?
I think about Manners of theHeart.
People around us have said onereason that we have survived
this long as a nonprofit because80% of nonprofits are gone
within five years.
The first five years it's evenhigher than that.
(12:42):
In the last five years it'seven gotten higher than that why
do you think that percentage?
um, it's, the non-profit worldis so difficult, um, and it's
not really the rules andregulations as much as it is, um
, trying to fulfill your missionwhile having to raise the funds
in order to fulfill yourmission.
(13:03):
But how much time you mustspend to raise the funds in
order to fulfill your mission.
But how much time you mustspend to raise the funds, you
know that takes away from thefulfillment of the mission.
Right, and it, um, it's, it's avery difficult it's, it's, and,
and you're reliant on.
We're fortunate that we havesomething we can sell so we can
have some self-generated revenue.
So we're not a charity wherewe're totally dependent on, you
(13:24):
know, the generosity of folks,but even with that it's just not
enough hours in a day, you know, to do it all and to do it well
.
That's the hard part, to do itwell.
But so most nonprofits don'tmake it beyond five years.
Like I said, 80% don't make itpast five years.
So those around us who watch usand have watched us for a long
(13:47):
time have said they believe thereason we've survived for so
long is because we've never lostsight of our mission, of our
original mission.
We've never lost sight of itand so it's kept us on course
and it's kept us kind of pureand it's kept us solid and it's
helped us to make some wisedecisions of what to say yes to
and what to say no to.
So it's kept us solid and it'shelped us to make some wise
decisions of what to say yes toand what to say no to.
(14:07):
So it's uh, it's helped us, butto survive.
But back to your originalquestion how have we changed?
What's I find most interestingabout manager?
The heart is we've really we'venever changed our message, nor
have we changed our mission.
But our message hasn't changed,nor will it ever change,
because our message doesn'tchange according to how society
(14:29):
changes or how thoughts come andgo, or the latest parenting
trend, or the new wave ofpsychology, or the new guru
who's hit the scene and has anew answer.
You know, because what we teachis timeless, is timeless truth.
Jen G (14:46):
Has the curriculum adapted at all because of
technology and loans and allthat stuff?
Jill (14:51):
Yes, we have most definitely adapted.
When COVID hit, of course wealready had the curriculum
online.
Of course it was in print,obviously from the beginning.
Of course it was in print,obviously from the beginning.
But we had already pivoted,probably two years before COVID,
so that a teacher who had thecurriculum materials, print
(15:13):
materials, could go online andpull it all up online in PDF
form.
And so we were already at thatpoint then, and in fact we're in
another pivot right now, ofeven doing more online.
It's a.
The curriculum itself is storybased, and so we're right now in
the process of pulling thestories out of the curriculum
(15:34):
and making them children's books, along with animation.
That's our big dream, becausewe do want to reach every kid in
America.
That's been true since thebeginning.
Jen G (15:42):
So to that point, are you guys outside of the Baton Rouge
region?
Jill (15:48):
Oh, we are yeah we're all over the country and we have a
wonderful school in Kampala,uganda, that we've worked with.
This is the fifth year thatwe've worked with them.
It is.
I had a text from the WhatsApp,I guess Is that a?
text Is that considered a textand we go back and forth on
(16:08):
WhatsApp, yesterday from WilfordRugumba, who is the head of
school there, and it's MercyChild Care Center.
It's just a precious school andthe kids often send us videos
because they love to writeoriginal songs and they'll write
a song and perform.
It is just the most preciousthing the, the dialect and the
(16:29):
accent and it's just and eventhe.
They give a new um, the, theway in which they pronounce and
speak the word respect andespecially when they sing, it
just takes you, just totallyunglues you.
It takes the whole idea ofrespect to another level.
It's like it's ethereal orsomething, the way they say it.
It's just beautiful.
Jen G (16:49):
Will you send me that?
I'd love to somehow incorporatethat.
Jill (16:52):
Oh, I'll send you that video.
It's precious.
They're on the porch.
They're on the porch.
Speaker 4 (16:57):
They're on the porch of the school.
Jill (16:59):
That's precious.
And then we're also in awonderful school in Mexico City.
Jen G (17:09):
Like those early curriculum that you sold at
those trade shows or conferences.
Do you track that Like?
Do you know if your program isstill implemented nationwide?
Jill (17:20):
Oh, what a hard question.
We try, we try as best we can.
You know, one of the toughestparts of education, no matter
what you're trying to do ineducation, is the turnover when
a new administration comes in,and so often whatever was is now
(17:42):
gone, whether it's successfulor not.
We have found that to be truetime and time and time again.
Then you go back to ground zeroand you start all over again.
You convince the new folks incharge that, yes, it's as
wonderful as they said, and no,you don't need a different
curriculum.
This you know anyways.
It's always an uphill channel,Always.
And yes, some schools we havetracked, you know, for a long
(18:05):
time.
Many schools we haven't, youknow, we haven't been able to,
you know.
And our curriculum materialsare also sold online, like
through Amazon.
And our curriculum materialsare also sold online like
through Amazon, and we're notprivy to their sales information
.
That's not shared.
So that makes it interestingtoo.
Jen G (18:24):
Well, let's get a little bit more into what Manners of
the Heart is.
So the organization focuses itswork on the emotional wellness
of children through hearteducation.
Jill (18:36):
Can you explain that?
So when you have anunderstanding, as we do, that
the content of the heart,whether it's good, bad or ugly,
determines what a child willthink, say or do, that's where
you begin to gain anunderstanding of what we mean by
heart education, because wefirmly believe that the
(18:57):
education of the heart must be,should be, the heart of
education, because everythingelse comes out of that.
You know, in the last 50 yearsor so, we've really focused on
pouring knowledge into kids'heads and all the STEM education
and we've put boxes, as mymother used to call the
(19:18):
computers.
We've put boxes of every size,shape and form in front of kids
and we've put them in front ofthe boxes and thinking that
technology is going to do it.
But the truth is, when you lookacross education as anyone that
has children or anyone who ison the outside looking in, it's
been a miserable failure and oureducation system is not where
(19:42):
it needs to be.
When you compare children inthe United States to children
internationally, there is nocomparison.
I mean, people who don't knowwould assume the American kids
are on the top in every categoryand that we are in the third
and sometimes in the bottomthird in every comparison you
can think of in literacy,mathematics, science.
(20:03):
Go down the list and you knowwhat's happened.
You know there's somethingterribly wrong and what we
espouse is that we neglected theeducation of the heart.
And until you unlock a child'sheart, their mind is not going
to open to receive the knowledgethat a teacher has to impart to
them.
(20:23):
But the beautiful news is, whenyou do unlock the heart and
there's a heart-to-heartconnection made with a child,
now their mind will open toreceive that information you're
trying to teach them.
But so for us the education ofthe heart really is core.
It is the core of corecurriculum because everything
(20:45):
else comes out of that.
There was a research study doneby Southeastern did a research
study on the energy of the Hearta few years ago and they found
a 28 to 58 percent reduction indiscipline referrals when a
school implemented Manage of theHeart with Fidelity With
Fidelity is the key toeverything in education and they
(21:05):
also had a 15-point gain intheir academic achievement.
Didn't surprise us at all.
But we now have the statisticaldata to prove that when you
work on unlocking the heart andeducation of the heart,
everything else falls into place, and when you don't do that,
nothing falls into place.
Jen G (21:25):
Can you give us an example of how the principles
are implemented into a teacher'sclassroom?
Sure Well, we first start withprofessional development into a
teacher's classroom.
Jill (21:31):
Sure, Well, we first start with professional development,
and we really ask that everyadult on campus attends our
professional developmenttraining, because our goal is
that every interaction a childhas with an adult on campus is a
good one and is one of quality.
And so everyone attendscafeteria workers, the
janitorial staff, the busdrivers, everybody attends.
(21:54):
And what we work on, well, okay.
So everyone attends theprofessional development
training.
And then the way the curriculumitself is implemented is that
every morning the administratorhas a morning announcement and
we provide those because eachmorning goes along with the
lesson being taught that day.
And, just like math or science,we introduce a new concept on
(22:16):
Mondays and there are lessonsfive days a week that are taught
based on that concept.
Like I said, just like math orscience, I mean, a math teacher
is not going to present a newconcept on Monday and not bring
it up again during the week andgive a test on Friday and expect
the children to have learnedanything right.
Same thing is true with Mannersof the Heart.
So there's many different formsof lessons.
(22:39):
Sometimes it's an activity,it's a game, it's a song.
They do lots of differentactivities to keep it
interesting, you know, in a wayof reinforcing the heart
attribute.
And so on Mondays there's aheart attribute and two heart
attributes.
Most weeks that's introduced,and that's introduced through a
story, and it's called theMaryville Stories.
(23:01):
Maryville is this idylliclittle town between the
mountains and the sea.
It's the place every heartyearns to be Wise.
Old Wilbur lives in the one andonly apple tree.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
He's always been there and he always will be.
Jill (23:10):
Did you write that I did?
He's always been there and healways will be.
Did you write that I did?
And, yes, I love Maryville, myboys they were in high school,
middle school and high schoolwhen I was writing all this and
they would knock on the door andsay, mom, are you in Baton
Rouge or Maryville?
We need you in Baton Rouge atthe moment.
And I'd say, hold on a minute,and I'd go walk in the back of
(23:38):
the house and come back out.
Okay, I'm home, boy, what youneed, because I love living in
Maryville.
It's very idyllic andintentionally that way, because
one of the things that's missingin the lives of children today
is idealism.
You know, more times than not,what they see depicted of human
beings on TV or anything on theinternet or wherever they're
looking, is often the worst ofus, it's not the best of us, and
we've forgotten that we need togive children something to
(24:00):
aspire to, something bigger thanthemselves, something better
than themselves, and that's whatMaryville is all about is how
life could be meant to be,should be.
And so a new story isintroduced every Monday that
shows those qualities, thoseattributes we're trying to work
on for the week and then youknow, like I said, we have
different activities during theweek to reinforce that.
(24:22):
The same heart attributes areintroduced each week from pre-K
all the way to second grade andsome schools up to fifth grade,
and um the lessons are ageappropriate.
You know, they build on eachother um as the children grow,
um so the uh introduction andthe um implementation of the
(24:42):
lesson changes.
But the whole school then isworking on the same hard
attributes every week, no matterwhat grade level.
And it's also um the homeroomteacher, the classroom teacher,
really is the one primarilyresponsible in most schools.
It's very adaptable.
Some schools have differentthings, but for the most part
(25:04):
that's the one primarilyresponsible.
Some schools the guidancecounselor will do the
introductory lesson on Mondayand then the classroom teacher
will do the reinforcement lesson.
So there are different ways todo it.
And then there's also a verystrong home connection piece, as
I mentioned.
I did early on, and so everyweek, digitally, a home
(25:26):
connection letter goes homesaying here's what we're working
on this week.
Here's the hard attributes Askyour student to tell you this,
this and this.
We give them questions to askand then we give them activities
and things to do at homereminders that they can do at
home to reinforce the lessonbeing taught in the school.
Last year we introduced a newlittle animated piece, so now
(25:47):
every week has a little shortanimated introduction to that
story and that week's lessonthat the kids can watch at home
with their parents.
Jen G (25:54):
That's sweet, so, speaking of at home with their
parents.
If you could just give onepiece of advice to our listeners
who are parents what is onething that parents can begin
doing today to implement intheir homes?
That would kind of helpfacilitate the principles that
are taught through Manners ofthe Heart.
Jill (26:17):
I would probably start with the Ruby Rule, and it's
something that we came up withand we all know.
The golden rule right Treatothers the way you want to be
treated.
The Ruby Rule is to respectothers the way you want to be
respected, and that begins withthe marital relationship.
That's where it begins is theidea of you know I'm going to be
respected and that begins withthe marital relationship.
That's where it begins is theidea of you know I'm going to be
(26:38):
respectful of you and you'll berespectful of me, and the
children will see that you knowto begin to lead by example in
us and we'll be respectful ofthe children and the children
will be respectful of us, andone thing I often say is that,
um, disrespect is something thatneeds to be called out and
(26:58):
dealt with in the moment,instantaneously, whenever there
is.
I remember growing up if mymother said something and my
shoulder elevated a little, Imean daddy would say do I see
something going on over there?
What is that?
What would you think?
Think something different thanwhat your mother said?
Or if your eyes rolled.
(27:19):
Any form of disrespect needs tobe called out, not in a harsh
ugly way, but I call itpersuasive.
Pressure is what I teachparents, which is discipline,
not punishment.
Punishment is often given, isfear-based, and it's often done
in anger in a moment.
But all punishment does is makea kid feel rotten.
(27:42):
They made a mistake.
But you miss the effectivenessof a punishment when it's
punishment rather thandiscipline.
An effective discipline is anaction taken to change an
inappropriate behavior.
So when you punish a kid fordoing wrong and think about it,
if you're trying to instillgoodness, kindness,
(28:03):
respectfulness, if you're tryingto instill respect in them and
they're barked at for beingdisrespectful, a child looks at
that and says okay.
So what does it look like?
Is that what it looks like?
Is that respect, you know, butwhen it's done with persuasive
pressure.
By that I mean you use do not,don't.
(28:25):
So instead of don't do, blah,blah, blah.
Don't fill in the blank.
It's instead of doing this,we're going to do this, and you
always give the alternative.
So you're always giving theright behavior to replace the
wrong behavior.
That's persuasive pressure,consistent and persistent
reminders, and beyond that, inthe earliest, youngest children.
(28:48):
I'll give you two things.
Say, we have a three or fouryear old and we're going to
begin teaching how to keep theirroom clean.
Well, if you're going toinstill respect, then you have
to instill an other-centeredperspective in your child.
And so, rather than say we'regoing to keep our shoes on the
floor in the closet, we're goingto keep the stuffed animals on
the bottom shelf so your room'snot a mess.
No, we're going to say so thatno one comes in and trips over
(29:10):
it.
We're going to connect you.
We're going to say so that noone comes in and trips over it.
We're going to connect.
You see the difference?
Yeah, we're going to connectwhat we're asking of our
children, the expectation of howit affects those around them,
so that they begin to have thisother-centered perspective of
how their actions affect thosearound them, either in a
positive or negative way.
So that's one thing, and theother thing is, since we're all
(29:33):
in the South, I love it.
I did an interview this morningwith a woman in New Jersey and
I said I know you're not goingto like this, but I'm going to
say it anyway why is it that yessir and no sir, and yes ma'am
and no ma'am are considered assuch a Southern thing?
That's so wrong.
That is the best, best, easiest,most important way of
instilling respect in childrenand a respect for authority.
(29:56):
And when you start it young,it's absolutely incredible.
When it is present, thedifference it makes in
preventive parenting, because itsets in place the understanding
there's a difference betweenchildren and adults.
It sets in place a respect forauthority which translates far
beyond that relationship withyou and your child.
(30:18):
It translates into oh, this ishow I'm supposed to speak to all
adults.
Oh, I'm supposed to listen whenan adult speaks to me, it
translates well.
And when it is not present, andyes, sir and no sir, yes, women
are not taught you set yourselfup for a much more difficult
pathway to helping your childrengain respect for adults and to
(30:41):
gain respect for authority andthen it becomes a rule they have
to follow, rather than becominga part of who they are and
understanding that we giverespect because respect is meant
to be given.
Jen G (30:53):
That's so good.
I do feel like we have we'vedone pretty well with that.
I mean, I grew up in a familythat was very yes sir, no sir,
and it's like nails on achalkboard.
If a kid says yeah, what do youcall them?
Okay, so when you first beganthis, you were not a writer,
educator, speaker.
(31:14):
And now, how many books haveyou published?
Well, it's not a writer,educator speaker.
Jill (31:17):
And now, how many books have you published?
Well, it's all in.
How you want to count it,there's seven curriculum manuals
and three parenting books.
Jen G (31:24):
This is a beautiful book, so I am holding strong heart,
cultivating humility, respectand resiliency in your Child,
which just came out recently,right, july, july, okay.
So can you?
Well, strong heart?
That's something that you'vesaid before in your curriculum,
right?
Okay?
(31:45):
So can you kind of tell us howyou define that and what's the
premise of a strong heart?
Jill (31:50):
Well, I love to tell that story and it's kind of
interesting that you've justdone a story on Diane Lipscomb,
because it was Diane Lipscomb'sschool in Baton Rouge that where
strong heart first came to me.
That thought just went throughmy mind that's a neat
coincidence and she had asked meto be the fifth grade
(32:11):
commencement speaker.
I was so honored I can say I'vebeen a commencement speaker for
fifth grade.
And so as I was working on whatdo these fifth graders need to
hear?
They had had Manners of theHeart at their school for five
years.
So these were Manners of theHeart kids and their discipline,
referrals had gone down,academics had come up, things
were rocking and rolling, and soI thought what do they need to
(32:33):
hear before they go to middleschool?
That's what I need to speakinto their hearts at their fifth
grade graduation.
And so by the time I got to theschool and a couple of weeks
later, strongheart had reallyformulated in my heart, but up
until that point I had not beenusing that term in the
curriculum.
And so I took a whiteboard andI put it on an easel and I drew
(32:55):
the outline of a strong heartwith a big heart and put a
little head and arms and turnedhim into a little character, and
so I asked the kids todayyou're going to teach us because
your manners are the hard kids.
So if I told you this characteris called strong heart, tell me
what do you believe should bein the heart of a strong heart?
Well, these fifth gradersstarted saying things like
(33:18):
obedience and compassion andrespect and all these wonderful
qualities, love and joy andkindness.
And, oh goodness, all theteachers, and the parents
particularly, were just besidethemselves, and so I wrote in
all those beautiful qualitiesand filled in his heart, and
then I took a step back and Isaid, okay, looks like a pretty
(33:40):
strong heart to me.
Here's what you need to hearfrom me today.
You're going into middle schooland a lot of kids in your life,
even some of your closestfriends, are going to get off
track and they're going to tryto pull you off track with them.
And they're going to try topull you off track with them,
and they're going to try to getyou into stuff that you know you
shouldn't.
You should say no to, but youknow what.
We all make mistakes and you'regoing to say yes, and when you
(34:03):
do, I want you to see whathappens to your heart.
And so they gave me somescenarios which turned my head
upside down, because theyalready knew the things they
were going to be asked to do.
And I said so.
You said yes, and here's whathappened.
And I erased a piece of theoutline of the heart, and so we
removed the whole outline of theheart.
And then I said so, you know,this is manager of the heart.
(34:25):
Kids, what's going to happen toall that good stuff if your
heart's broken?
And they said it's going to fallout?
And I said and what gets inwhen the good stuff falls out?
And they said the bad stuff.
I said what happens to love?
And they said hate.
I said what happens to respect,disrespect, and we flipped it
all around, and now we had theseawful heart attributes in front
(34:45):
of us.
And so then I asked a questionthat gave an answer that stunned
everyone in the room, and so Isaid so now who has our strong
heart become?
And a little boy raised hishand and he said oh, I bet he's
(35:06):
a murderer.
We all gasp, but you can nevershow surprise in front of kids
or you'll lose them.
I said well, you know what thatcould be.
And a little girl on the frontrow said, oh, I bet she's really
depressed.
And, as hard as it was to hearthose answers, how amazing it is
that these were fifth graderswith that level of emotional
(35:30):
maturity that they couldunderstand, because they were
absolutely right.
They could understand thegravity of that moment, of what
they were looking at, and I said, ok, well, here's the really
tough question.
And these were fifth graderswho broke Strongheart's heart.
There's silence.
(35:51):
Finally a little hand went up.
It was a little boy and he saidhe did.
I said you're right.
And then you heard she did, wedid, we break our hearts and I
said you got it, you got it.
I mean, there's theaccountability we hope every
child understands, right, andespecially going into middle
(36:14):
school.
Jen G (36:15):
And that's also taking ownership over your own
decisions.
Right, Completely Well,nowadays, all anybody ever talks
about is mindfulness and havinga strong mind, so you're kind
of flipping it on its head,which is, I'm noticing, a trend.
You know you like to pose wordsthat are typically opposites
right, I do.
But why the emphasis on theheart rather than the mind?
Jill (36:40):
Yes, because you know I'll tell you something interesting.
Scientifically speaking, theactual physical manifestation of
this is real.
A lot of research has been donesince about the 60s, sometime
into the 70s, about theheart-mind connection and the
physiology is really interestingbecause it is actually true
(37:02):
that there's more I forgot whatyou call the word.
There are more neurons, maybe,okay, going from the heart to
the mind than from the mind tothe heart.
Things fire often, more oftenfrom the heart to the mind than
they do from the mind to theheart, interesting heart to the
(37:23):
mind than they do from the mindto the heart.
And one of the things, like Imentioned earlier, is that
what's in the heart, the contentof the heart, whether it's good
, whether it's bad or whetherit's ugly, right, which is, you
know, the good things that arethere, the bad things that are
there, or the things that havebeen done to a child that caused
trouble that's what I mean bythe ugliness Determines the
(37:46):
content of the heart, determineswhat a child will think and
what he will say and what hewill do One day.
A little second grade boy saidMiss Jill, I got it.
I said what you got and he saidwhat comes out of here and he's
pointing to his mouth, camefrom down in here and he pointed
to his heart.
I said, buddy, you got it, yougot it.
(38:07):
And that's that's why I cringewhen I hear so much discussion
and I read I've.
There's never a day that goesby that I'm not reading another,
the latest, something right,and then this whole world, this
whole area of of interest.
But I cringe when I readsomething else about mindfulness
, because we've got it upsidedown.
(38:27):
We truly do.
And again, the evidence, sosadly, is all around us.
All of the statistics that wewant to see go down, keep
escalating, the anxiety, thedepression, suicide, all of the
things that our young adults andteenagers are dealing with
today, all the numbers are goingin the wrong direction.
(38:48):
And yet, you know, I livefrustrated.
I say frustrated all the timebecause I know we have an answer
.
We can't get enough people tohear it.
Jen G (39:02):
It starts at home, right, so it's something we can all do
at home today.
So you mentioned self-respectin your definition of strong
heart, not self-esteem.
What's the difference?
Jill (39:15):
Go back again to the 60s and 70s.
If we gave one person creditfor telling us we needed
self-esteem, it would be CarlRogers, who was the grandfather
of humanism.
And the word self-esteem wasactually coined in the 1890s
kind of stayed nowhere, and thenit popped up into the clinical
circles around the 1920s to the1940s and then when the 60s hit
(39:40):
and everything went crazy whichy'all have only heard about, but
I know about.
Everything went crazy whichy'all have only heard about, but
I know about when everythingwent wild, that's when Carl
Rogers interjected into oursociety that you know what the
kids didn't feel good aboutthemselves.
The 50s were too rigid.
They had to break out and whatthey now need is to feel good
(40:00):
about themselves.
And that's what we need to do.
And we have been doing that now, totally obsessed with the
building of self-esteem, for 60years or more.
And again the roof is in thepudding, we were told.
The promises of self-esteem werethat we would get along better
because people would feel goodabout themselves.
(40:22):
People would have tremendousconfidence about themselves.
People would have tremendousconfidence.
This is kind of almost funny tome.
Anxiety would go down.
Of course that's an epidemicproblem today.
The levels of anxiety, vitriolwould go down, less violence.
We would just be better peopleand more peaceful, and everyone
(40:43):
would get along better andthings would be good.
If we esteemed ourselves Well,therein lies the problem,
because that is the truestdefinition of self-esteem is the
esteeming of self.
Now, we understood eons ago thatvainglory vanity, pumping
oneself up, was considered veryin poor taste at the minimum and
(41:06):
very damaging and dangerous atthe at the most.
Um, one of the foremostresearchers in this whole world
of um self-esteem was RoyBymeister out of um, uh, florida
, and then he moved toCalifornia later at Stanford.
But he really was jumped on theself-esteem bandwagon in the
70s until he was involved in afive-year research study on why
(41:29):
kids got into trouble at the ageof 13, and by 20 they had a rap
sheet and were hardenedcriminals.
And what could we do to changethat?
The hypothesis was that theyhad low self-esteem and going
into the study.
Well, at the end of the studythey found the converse to be
true.
It was high self-esteem thatcaused them to become criminals.
(41:52):
It was the sense of entitlement.
And you have shoes that I'llnever have.
I'm going to do what I've gotto do to get those shoes.
You have what I want.
I can't see how I'm going toget it, so I'm going to take it.
Jen G (42:04):
So high self-esteem can lead to just this.
What was the word?
You just Entitlement,entitlement, thank you.
But then, going to the nextpoint, you also talk about
humble confidence a lot.
So how do you strike the rightbalance between having healthy
self-respect, self-esteem, butbeing humble.
Jill (42:25):
Yes, so self-esteem and self-respect to me are polar
opposites.
Many think that they'resynonyms, but they're not.
They are absolutely polaropposites.
Self-esteem comes from theesteeming of self, while
self-respect comes from theesteeming of others.
If you think about being facedwith disrespect, well, our
(42:49):
natural inclination is to hitback right.
But if we choose to returnrespect when we've been met with
disrespect, we actually are thestronger of the two people
right in that interaction,because we are choosing to stand
strong and not returndisrespect with disrespect.
So we're actually the strongerperson.
(43:10):
But what does it take to dothat?
It takes tremendous humility tobe able to do that, and it's in
those humble actions that weactually gain confidence.
And I love to put those twowords together.
As you said, humble confidence.
I love to put those two wordstogether.
As you said, humble confidence.
(43:31):
And interestingly, when we thinkabout humility, many people
think of a doormat or someonewho just always puts someone
else ahead of themselves.
But truly, someone once saidhumility is not thinking of
yourself.
Thinking less of yourself isthinking of yourself less, which
I love, that definition ofhumility.
So it's not the idea of puttingyour head down and you know as
(43:52):
we think of.
You know, the little kid who'slooking down and, you know, is
scared and walking away.
No, no, no, no.
It's actually the one who isthinking of how can I serve
others, how can I be the bestthat I can be?
We don't think about it as ahumble person, but truly it is.
To give you just an example ofthat the Bible tells us that
(44:14):
Moses most people, whatever yourfaith, understand Moses, know
Moses, who led the people out ofEgypt, a strong leader, and yet
the Bible tells us that Moseswas the most humble man on earth
.
Well, how can that be?
It's because we've misconstruedthe definition of humility.
Humility is actually strength.
Humility is not a person ofweakness and humility a truly
(44:38):
humble person.
It's more about your attitude,the reason behind what you're
doing.
So think of it in this way thekid who works really, really,
really, really hard to becomethe best math student you know
in the class.
But the reason isn't so that hegets a trophy, because he could
care less about a trophy.
It's so that he can master thatskill, because it comes easy
(45:00):
for him and he can feel thathe's good at it and it comes
easy.
But his motive isn't to get thetrophy.
It's so that he can feel thathe's good at it and it comes
easy.
But his motive isn't to get thetrophy, it's so that he can
turn around and help the otherkids who are struggling with it
learn what he's learned.
Oh, you see what I mean.
Yeah, tremendous humility.
Mike (45:15):
But he's the number one math kid in the class yeah, yeah
humble confidence I have apractical question how many
mirrors should a teenage girlhave in her room?
Jill (45:31):
One very small mirror, don't you think?
One and I have no idea what youjust brought me into here.
It's not my fault.
Mike (45:39):
It's not a debate.
It's not an ongoing debate.
Jill (45:41):
It's not my fault.
Mike (45:43):
I was an only child.
I grew up with a lot of mirrorsin my room and I noticed, when
you go places like vacation orlike let's take camp, like
Chasatonga, catalina, yeah,there are no mirrors, no, and
you end up focusing on otherimportant things in life.
You know, it's almost likethat's the first thing that came
(46:04):
to mind here as far as raisingmy own kids.
It's like they're very focused.
They go in their rooms on theirphones, on their devices.
They look at themselves.
They're not thinking aboutothers, even though our kids are
great.
Jill (46:18):
Do you know that the analogy I use is the mirror or
the window?
Mike (46:22):
Interesting Okay.
Jill (46:23):
Did you know that?
Mike (46:24):
I heard you say it earlier though.
Jill (46:27):
I've wondered.
I was like, wow, that's amazing.
Yeah, I think of the, the, theword picture that I give people
the imagery that I like to give,because a lot of these concepts
are very hard for people tograsp a young parents, because
it's so counter-cultural, but weknow it's to be timeless truth.
But, um, if you think of themirror of self-esteem and, um,
(46:48):
you know, kids don't pick up amirror.
We put the mirror in front ofthem, we put a hand, them to
them.
But here's the deal if you'relooking in a mirror, who do you
see yourself right and who doyou not see?
others right, because you can'tsee through the mirror.
And in the mirror ofself-esteem, kids can't see the
possibilities of who they canbecome.
They can see what's behind themin the mirror, right but they
(47:11):
can't see what's in front ofthem.
And here's the key that youwere alluding to the longer a
kid is being raised in themirror of self-esteem, the more
loss they get in themselves.
And we know as ladies, right,we know as as ladies that, jen,
that the longer you look in themirror, the things look better
or worse, typically not better.
Mike (47:31):
Oh yeah, we get the 10x mirrors, so we can see like
every pore too.
Jill (47:35):
You know like I know, and then that little pin dot that
you're trying to cover up is nowthe size of a quarter yeah it's
like, oh gosh, and so what?
so what happens?
The longer they get look in themirror, they get lost in
themselves and one of two thingshappen.
Either they become entitled,right, self-conceited and it's
going to be all about me, it'sabout me, it's about me and what
(47:55):
am I going to get and what'swhat's coming my way tomorrow,
what am I doing this weekend?
And you know we're goingshopping again and you know it's
all about me.
Or they become self-conceitedbecause they I mean
self-conscious, because they getlost in themselves and therein
they fall into all of the wrongbehaviors and everything we're
trying to keep desperately tokeep them away from.
(48:15):
But it's not high and lowself-esteem, it's the whole
issue of being lost in themirror, of self-esteem lost in
the mirror oh gosh you have justgiven him so much ammo and I'm
never gonna hear the end.
Mike (48:28):
I'm so sorry I'm gonna go inside.
Lucy, a parenting expert, toldme that this is your new
consequence if you aredisrespectful, take your
full-length mirror out.
Jen G (48:40):
I'm so sorry, don't hate me okay, so you offer a strong
word for dads and their role inthe moral decline of our culture
.
How does that relate to raisinga strong heart?
Jill (48:53):
Okay, so Jen just got you back.
I did, I did, jen just got youback.
So I believe the greatest okay,I'm going to really be tough to
say responsibility instead ofrole the greatest responsibility
I believe a dad has in the homeis to be the man that he wants
(49:15):
his daughter to marry, ouch, andto be the man he wants his son
to become.
Jen G (49:23):
Agree completely.
I don't think anybody woulddisagree, right, I mean?
Jill (49:27):
that's a that's a lot.
That's a lot but and no onedoes it perfectly, of course,
and we can't do anything any ofit perfectly but one of the
things we can become so guiltyof as parents is, uh, and we
don't mean to do this, but wefall into this trap of expecting
more of our children than we doof ourselves.
You know, we'll let ourselvesoff the hook because we're
(49:49):
working and we're busy and wegot so much going on and gosh,
we got four kids and you know.
But the truth is we can teachkids what we know, but they're
going to emulate who we are andwe don't do it perfectly.
And when we mess up, we ask forforgiveness, and that's part of
our duty really is to betransparent and let them see we
(50:12):
make mistakes, just like you do.
Jen G (50:15):
Talk about the mirror of self-reflection as your kids
start to get older and they'lldo a gesture or something I'm
like, oh my gosh, looking in amirror, yeah.
Jill (50:25):
I know what you mean I know.
Jen G (50:27):
Okay, we've kept you here for over an hour at this point.
Mike (50:30):
I love this and we got a new camp friend.
Jen G (50:32):
Yeah, we do have a camp friend, that's so cool.
Mike (50:35):
Anybody else out there go to summer camps in North
Carolina?
Let us know.
Especially Catalina andChasatonga.
That holds a special place inthe heart.
Jill (50:46):
And there especially catalina and chasatonga, that
that holds a special place inthe heart too, and there's a lot
, as you know, in louisiana.
Yeah, there's a lot of kidsfrom louisiana to go up there.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
I said that summer I went.
Jill (50:51):
I stayed six weeks.
It was heaven I did the highropes course, the junior
counselor girls the day before Iwas leaving said miss, jill,
you haven't done the high ropescourse.
I said that's okay, I know Iwasn't intended.
Yes, miss, you're doing it.
And they drug me up and I didit.
It's life-changing, reallylife-changing.
Jen G (51:10):
Charged with teaching that one day and I could not go
through with it.
I couldn't, but I did leadcaving expeditions and also
trips on the Appalachian trailfor 10 days at a time.
Hey, that's big.
But I didn't even know.
I had a fear of heights of time.
Hey, that's big but I didn'teven know.
I had a fear of heights.
So I do want to get to one morething.
In the closing pages of thebook you share the armor prayer
God gave you more than 25 yearsago as a way of preparing your
(51:33):
heart and protecting your familyfor each new day.
Would you recite that for us?
Jill (51:38):
I will I will.
Jen G (51:40):
Do you need a cheat sheet ?
Jill (51:41):
No, I do not need a cheat sheet.
I did not think you did.
I don't.
I started praying that whenboys in first grade and my
husband and I pray it.
Now I do.
The Lord sent me a beautifulman 16 years ago.
Next week I'm still on ourhoneymoon.
I'm so proud to say, anyway,sweetest man on earth, I know
you have a sweet one, but I'msorry, mine's the sweetest and
(52:04):
anyway.
But we pray it every morningand we hug and embrace and we
pray it on behalf of ourgrandchildren now.
So the prayer goes like thisLord, place upon her, and we say
singular plural pronouns.
So we say, lord, place upon ourhead because the two have
become one in marriage, right?
So, lord, place upon our headthe helmet of salvation to
(52:26):
protect our mind.
Place upon our chest thebreastplate of righteousness to
protect our heart.
Buckle around us the belt oftruth that we would know the
truth and speak the truth, thatwe would not be deceived.
Nor would we deceive Lord,we'll carry the sword of the
Spirit, your word, as anoffensive weapon.
Enable us to walk in the pathof peace you lay before us this
(52:48):
day, not stepping to the left orto the right, but walking in
its narrow way, with the HolySpirit dwelling within, with
Jesus Christ, our brother,standing with us and with you,
the Lord, god Almighty,empowering us, and with you, the
Lord, god Almighty empoweringus.
We will stand and hold theshield of faith this day for
(53:10):
Garrett, allie, jack, austin,Kate, addison and Elliot, until
each can carry it in their ownfaith In Jesus' name amen.
Jen G (53:21):
Amen.
That is so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that withus.
You're so welcome.
I would like for our listenersto know that the proceeds from
your book Speaking in All thatyou Do goes to Manners of the
Heart to help further themission God has given you.
So we just we want to thank youfor all that you've done for
our community and for being withus here today.
And how can people interestedin your books or in adopting
(53:47):
your curriculum get a hold ofyou?
Jill (53:49):
Yes, they can visit mannersoftheheartorg to learn
more about our curriculum workand to learn more about our
parenting work.
We do a lot of parentingseminars and workshops one night
, or sometimes we do a wholeweekend series, like through
churches, friday night, andSaturday series as well, and
they can go tojillgarnercontentorg to learn
(54:10):
more about that aspect of ourwork.
Jen G (54:13):
I love that.
I'm already writing down alittle note.
We're going to get a littleparenting retreat going up.
That's cool, all righty.
Ms Jill, thank you so much,it's been a pleasure, thank you,
it's a pleasure.
Jill (54:24):
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you.
The pleasure's been all mine.
Thank you, bye.
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