Episode 5
We interview Leila Rastegar Zegna, investor, philanthropist, and founder of Kindred Capital VC, on:
- how to approach success intrinsically,
- living a portfolio life, not just working in a portfolio career,
- work-life integration, not balance,
- using your competitive spirit as a driving force,
- prioritisation and balance with intention.
Leila’s career has been formed with hardworking roots whilst reaching innovative and entrepreneurial heights. Whilst balancing the management of venture funds worth millions, she is also a philanthropist who believes in portfolio life over portfolio work
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Episode Transcript
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Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:09):
Welcome to the fifth episode of
PortfolioCast. Today, werespeaking with Leila Rastegar
Zegna. Leilas career has beenformed with hardworking roots
whilst reaching innovative andentrepreneurial heights. Whilst
balancing the management ofventure funds worth millions,
she is also a philanthropist whobelieves in portfolio life over
portfolio work. Welcome, Leila.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (00:30):
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:32):
So often, I start our PortfolioCast
conversations by starting at thebeginning. What I'd love to do
with you, Leila is start withwhere you are right now, because
it's a pretty exciting time. Myintroduction alluded to the
heights that you've reached. Butfirstly, I'd really like to
congratulate you on Kindred'ssecond fund of 81 million to
(00:53):
back-up even more early stagestartups.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (00:56):
Thank you.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:57):
It's an incredible success.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (00:58):
Thank you.
Yeah, it's a really excitingplace to be.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:01):
So from my perspective, the success is
huge. It's up there in bright,big letters. I mean, you've
experienced a lot of what I cansee as success. But I wonder how
you build up that success? Howdo you approach success, when
the heights are so high?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (01:16):
Yeah, thank you. I love this question.
Because I think actually, I'velearned so much along the way,
that kind of talking about thethe culmination of it, or the
aggregation of it, where I amnow versus the stepping stones
along the way, I think is areally interesting way of
looking at it. I would say youreach success by looking within,
(01:36):
which actually isn't necessarilywhere I started, which is why I
love that question so much, Ican see such a big difference in
the way in which I approach mylife and my career today,
instead of looking within it,what is much more of sort of
intrinsic motivation as opposedto thes extrinsic motivation.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:52):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (01:53):
So I think where I am now is this sort of
amazing place in my life, whereI'm able to channel sort of my
value system, the things that Icare about, the things that are
important to me in terms of thetype of work that I do, and the
type of people I surround myselfwith, because I've founded this
fund alongside a few otherextraordinary people. As you
(02:13):
guys know very well, from havingstarted this company. Anytime
you start a company/anorganisation, I think the
greatest privilege that you haveis you get to construct the
world around you that you wantto live in. And that world, it's
a function of the people who youchoose to bring around you. In
our case, it's not just ourpartnership, and our team at
Kindred, but it's all theentrepreneurs that we choose to
(02:34):
back and we get the privilege ofbacking out of the fund. But
it's also the value system, it'sthe ethos by which you do the
work. It's the systems, it's thespace, literally, it's
absolutely everything in yourworld is constructed to reflect
your worldview. And that justfeels like this enormous
privilege. I think sort oftaking that step back and
thinking about my journey tothis point, I think being a
(02:56):
product of a, an immigrantfamily in the US, and really, I
think doing a lot because it wasmy upbringing, my parents
telling me how important hardwork and dedication and
commitment was and getting an Awas better than getting a B and
going to a great university wasbetter than going to sort of a
second tier University. Andthere was this hierarchy of what
(03:16):
success actually looked like, inmy household and in my life. And
I think many people are raisedwith that type of ethos. And it
obviously has so many wonderfulthings that come with it. But it
it does have a flip side to thecoin, which is oftentimes you're
doing things for externalpraise, or the more classic
definitions of success andachievement. So it took me quite
(03:38):
a long time, probably into mymid 30s or so when I was a good
13-14 years into building mycareer and doing professional
work, when I think I found thething that feels much more
authentically me. And I thinksuccess really stems from that
at the end of the day.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (03:54):
Yeah, absolutely, it's really
important to take a look atthose two ends of the spectrum,
because quite often, we need tofind that middle ground, rather
than it being all about successin other people's eyes, and then
working towards success in ourown eyes.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (04:11):
Yeah, I think for a long time, and I'm
not even sure this is the rightstructure, but we're sort of
much more generallyphilosophically getting into
education. But I think for along time, there can be
structures within education, andthen within organisations that
really feed into that, that kindof show you the rungs on the
ladder that you need to climb.
And everything is quite means tothe end, as opposed to the
appreciation of the thing itselfin that moment in time. So, you
(04:34):
know, you take the honoursclass, to get into the right
university to get into the rightfirst job to then get promoted
within that job to then go tothe right business school in my
case. So you can actually getquite far without ever having to
take a big step back and thinkgenuinely about the things that
you over index to the thingsthat you love, which tend to be
the things that you're reallygood at and vice versa and start
(04:55):
building from that standpoint.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (04:58):
Yeah, I mean, was there anything that
triggered that reflection, thatstep back?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (05:04):
Yeah, I think there wasn't a very
logical next rung on the ladder,frankly. I mean, I think I was
graduating from business schooland my classmates were going to
all sorts of wild and wonderfulplaces. So I was - "okay, do I
want to go and work in thenonprofit sector and work up
leadership ranks within thatsphere? Do I want to go into
(05:25):
sort of the big corporate world?
Do I want to start a company doI want to be in technology? Do I
want to be an investor?" And allof a sudden, this whole world
was open. And I wasn't at thestage of my career where it was
like, just get a first job, goget a great training somewhere.
It was, you should now knowyourself well enough to know
that the next thing you do ishopefully building a track to
something. And I just thinkthere's a lot of pressure on
(05:46):
young people today, maybe on allpeople today, but certainly
young people to find that thingwhere they're going to self
actualize, which is like such aperfect combination of their
passions and their financialmoney making abilities, and to
do that really early on. And Ithink that that pressure
sometimes leads people to make adecision before they really know
who they are, and what theymight want to do with their
(06:08):
lives. So portfolio careers,which, which I know is the bulk
of what we're talking abouttoday, I think it's just
extraordinarily beneficial.
Also, for sort of differentjunctures of your life where,
you know, both you've gotten toknow yourself much better over
time. But contexts change andopportunities change and
environments change. So givingyourself that ability to invent
(06:29):
and reinvent as you go along, Ithink it's really powerful.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (06:32):
Yeah, and that kind of reinvention is
something that is so at theheart of portfolio careers,
because we never really standstill for too long. And that's a
trait that I see again, again,when I'm having these
conversations. And when we spokeabout you becoming one of our
founding members, you mentionedabout having, or rather how you
feel about living a portfolio oflife, and how that is then
(06:55):
reflected back between yourpersonal life and your working
life. Rather than it just beinga career path. Would you mind
talking a little bit more aboutthis way of living and how it's
been for you?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (07:06):
Yeah, I think we all have so many
different responsibilities inour lives, but also so many
different passions. Like, again,going back to this education
example, there was a time whenthe day looked like, you know,
morning doing maths, and scienceand English and literature and
language and art, and you hadthis full spectrum, and sports
(07:28):
and everything in between. Andthen as we get older, as
traditionally, we've gotten justnarrower and narrower in terms
of the types of things thatwe're unable to do. And some of
that is building depth andexpertise in a single area. And
so you have to rinse, repeat,and the law of 10,000 hours, but
I feel that we've really lostsomewhere along the way, that
real breadth to our characters,our personalities. And, frankly,
(07:51):
I think what fuels us to begreat at those things that we do
dedicate a lot more time to. SoI found that I went through a
period of great expansion aseveryone did when they were very
young to becoming more narrowlyfocused on a given category. And
then little by little, I thinkthe last certainly five years,
if not 10 years, starting tolike bolt on more things,
whether that's new projectsoutside of work, or whether
(08:13):
that's in my my home life, mypersonal life, which I was
alluding to, in that firstconversation, where we have
three young startups at home, wehave, we have three young kids.
And you know, we're building afamily ourselves, we're building
a new network for ourselves inLondon, where we moved five
years ago. So that sort offriendships and relationships.
And what I've realised is thatin adding all those things into
(08:34):
my life, instead of having lesstime for any one thing, I feel
like my world has expandedhugely. And actually, I feel
that they each make me so muchbetter at the other thing that
I'm doing. Each of them gives meenergy in a different way. And
therefore, you get this lovely,non zero sum phenomenon where
you somehow get more energy,more capacity, more time, from
(08:57):
doing things that are genuinelyinteresting to you in different
ways.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's an
incredible way of describing it.
Because there is definitelythere's all these many, many
pulls on your time. How do youapproach that kind of balance?
And how do you approach gettingtime for just you in all the
things that you do? Is thatpossible, especially with being
a parent as well?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (09:20):
So I'm particularly bad at that last
one, so I won't, I won't pretendto be good. I actually think
that Coronavirus and thelockdown and everything has been
particularly challenging forpeople on that front because
somehow the separation for me ofgetting up putting on sort of
professional work clothes,leaving the house going to an
office and then coming back,there was more of a separation
(09:42):
between one and the other. Andalso there was just more commute
time / downtime in betweenversus if I can hear my family
in the other room, when you andI get off of a podcast call I'm
gonna shut my computer andimmediately go there because
there's such a scarcity of timefor anything that you love. You
just try and pack the day asfull as you can. So it's taken
(10:03):
me six months or so to settleinto something that looks like
it's going to be a new, at leasthybrid, way of working for quite
a long time to come.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (10:11):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (10:11):
And really understand the importance, as
you say, have some time just foryou. And so I'm trying to build
those ends little by little, butI think it comes from this
voracious appetite to be withthe people I love and do the
things that I love to do. So onthat front, I can't claim that I
do a great job. But I think theway in which I think about
balance is much more work/lifeintegration, as opposed to
(10:34):
work/life balance, which I thinkhas come in a very physical
manifestation over lockdown. Andmany people that you talk to, I
think, have seen a reallyenormous silver lining to that,
that sort of time spent in oneanother's company, and all those
little moments. But I think I'veprobably never had balance in my
life, so to speak, and balance,I think, inherently talks about
(10:55):
some perfect equilibrium, whichI think is an impossible
standard. But also, I think, asyou think about balance, well,
there's this troubling thingover here, it needs to be
balanced by something that ispositive, or you have a positive
and negative and they tend to bekind of counterweights to each
other. And yeah, that's not, Iguess how I see or aspire to
live my life. And I think it'sfiguring out a way of, as I
(11:17):
said, getting energy from boththings.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:19):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (11:19):
One of my partners in the firm has a word
that he uses, I reference a lotvery much resonates with me,
which is a word around thingsbeing "generative". So if I come
into a meeting with you, and weboth bring a lot of our brain
power, and our physical energy,mental energy, emotional energy,
we can leave it all in the roomand give it everything that we
(11:41):
have. Oftentimes, you'll leavethat room and you'll actually
have more energy than when youcame in. Like you've just
created something, you'vegenerated something with that
other person. And then othertimes you'll go in, and it can
be a really basic meeting,you're not actually bringing a
huge amount of yourself and youcan leave just feel like
completely drained and depleted.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:59):
Yeah.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (11:59):
So I think figuring out for yourself, what
is generative? What are thosethings that actually generate
energy for you, and then usingthose sort of reserves, if you
will be able to do all thoseother things that are required
of you as an individual. That'sthe way I try and think about
this balance question that youasked.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:15):
That's - yeah, that's a really good way
of describing it, especially theword generative, I think that's
yeah, that's definitely going tocome back for me, I think
that...
Leila Rastegar Zegna (12:23):
I've stolen that from him. Now, I'm
making it my own,
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:27):
It's definitely going to come into my
vocabulary from now on. Sothat's a good way of looking at
it. You mentioned that aboutyour voracious appetite for new
things for new work for, forcreating. And certainly, your
successes, as we've alreadydiscussed, are very much based
on a foundation of a lot of hardwork, you've obviously applied
yourself to do the hard work andreally create something whether
(12:48):
that was studying at Yale, orthen your MBA at Harvard, and
all the businesses that youformed and supported along the
way. And we touched briefly onyour family being a touchstone
on that, and certainly a drivingforce. But I wondered if you
wanted to talk a bit more abouthow that mindset was created,
and how it's taken you from A toB and forwards?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (13:11):
Yeah, so one of my companies that I
helped start with a geneticscompany, a genomics company, and
I'm a big believer in, innature, as well as nurture, I
think there are things that arehard coded into your DNA. It's
quite interesting to watch thechildhood videos of myself and
my older sister, who's she'sthree and a half years older
than me. And there's agymnastics class that we're in
(13:32):
when I'm three, and she's six.
And this other kid in the classdoes a somersault and you see my
sister being like, "That'sawesome", like, "Well done, you
can do a somersault", and thenit pans over to me, and I'm
like, "Oh, she thinks she coulddo a somersault. Like I'll show
you a somersault." You see mylittle three year old self
trying to compete with these sixyear olds, and we're just wired
differently.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (13:51):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (13:51):
I think I always had a bit of that
competitive spirit in me verymuch around competition with
myself and trying to alwaysstrive to be better and
continuous improvement. And Ithink that was fueled by the
fact that I grew up with myfather from the age of 11. And
my sister grew up with my mum.
And she went back to universityto get her graduate degree. So
we were we were separated. Myfather is quite a hard driving
(14:14):
competitive, A is better than Bkind of guy. So I think that
also really shaped a lot of myearly years of being really
proud to do well and show himthat I had done well. And then I
think there's now as I wastalking about the first
question, there's a greatinternal intrinsic motivation
and much more authenticity, Ithink in myself to why I care
(14:37):
about doing well and the thingsthat I'm doing now and frankly,
across everything that I do, Ifeel like it's it's really about
others as opposed to being aboutme. And that feels like a much
better place. It feels like I'mdoing things for reasons that
are really important to me asopposed to somehow trying to get
the award and then show it offto someone else. So it's been a
(14:58):
real journey to that. But Ithink a lot of it is nature and
then a good dose of nurture inthere as well.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (15:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I definitely like
that theory. Nature really doesdrive you I have a very similar
reaction to how I've beenbrought up with my Dad, also the
examples that we were givengrowing up? Yeah, that's very
hard working will work longhours. And it's like one of
those conversations that youconstantly hear parroted back to
you, my grandparents saying,you're very much like a father.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (15:28):
Yeah, of course. And then I think that
makes you sort of hear thatcategorization early on, and
then you make it true. It's likea self fulfilling prophecy. And
I think about it a lot now as amum, because I think both my
parents were these extraordinaryindividuals, great parents
really loving, really nurturing.
And so when I came home with astraight A report card, my
(15:48):
father was really proud of me.
And there's nothing wrong withthat. And that he, of course he
was doing - he was proud. Andthat's great. But I think
tacitly or implicitly, childrenare quite susceptible to
thinking that their love, ortheir admiration, in some sense
is linked to the achievement asopposed to who you actually are.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:06):
Yeah.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (16:07):
And so I think about that a lot. Now,
when my children do things thatI'm really proud of them for
doing. Do you congratulate theaction? Do you congratulate the
effort? Do you just say, Great,let's laugh about good things
and bad things? Like I thinkthere's much more awareness in
terms of those subtle signs andsignals that you give to your
kids over time, but it certainlyplayed a role in my life growing
up.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:26):
Yeah, definitely. And that self
awareness, levels of selfawareness, has definitely
developed over generations. Isee portfolio careers as an
obvious choice for investors toget involved with, especially
now, I've learned more about youand from you, what would you
recommend to fellow investorsconsidering a change, looking at
(16:47):
whether they should becontinuing in a normal nine to
five? If that's even possible?
There's lots of changing workingenvironments at the moment, or
just considering moving awayfrom just a singular role and
maybe exploring other avenues?
What kind of advice would you,would you give them when they're
looking at it thinking "Whatnext?"
Leila Rastegar Zegna (17:06):
Yeah, I think it's particularly suited,
actually, to investors and ininvestment roles. And part of
that is, I'm thinking aboutinvesting in a company, my hope
is that that founder, that CEO,that team knows more about that
company, that market insight,the dynamics that are very
specific to what they'reoperating in 24/7, than I will,
(17:28):
but what I will know are thingsthat they can't see if they are
in that narrow, very deep veinof being constantly focused
around one thing, one problemthey're trying to solve. And so
I think part of the benefit ofbeing an investor and having
this meta level view across manydifferent businesses, in many
different segments, with manydifferent customer bases and
business models, is actuallythere's far more connectivity to
(17:51):
those dots than may initiallymeet the eye. And so I think
breakthroughs in thought oropening up a window of
opportunity for a founder isvery much predicated on you
being able to see things thatthey by definition don't. And in
my experience, that's been aportfolio literally is the word
that we use to talk about ourown investment portfolio. So
looking at adjacencies, orcommonalities across businesses
(18:14):
that may seem very disparate orvery separate. But also in my
personal life I was having thisconversation with, we use an
executive coach at Kindred atour venture fund. So he works
with us as individual InvestmentPartners, but also on the team
dynamic. And he's been anextraordinary asset to us. I was
having a conversation with him acouple of weeks ago. And he
said, asking me about places inmy life that I felt are very
(18:37):
generative for me, and placeswhere I felt like I had
something really to add, where Iwas quite confident in my
abilities. And I spoke aboutbeing a mother. And I said, I've
only been doing it for fiveyears, our eldest child has
special needs. And I am by nomeans an expert in disabilities
or special needs. I haven't readthe psychology books around
(18:58):
parenting. I'm not apsychologist, PhD by training.
But I feel very confident in mysort of intuition and abilities
as a mum. And if there wasanother parent who wanted to
speak to me about some issuethey were struggling with, or
they were trying to workthrough, I would be so excited
to take that call and give themat least some of what I've
learned along the way. And wewere trying to think about that
(19:19):
mindset on how to take thatmindset into the investment
realm that I work inprofessionally, where you're not
the expert in the room, again,on that domain or on that
technology, or you shouldn't beotherwise you probably shouldn't
be investing in that CEO. Butactually there are some areas
where you have - you over-index,you've got great intuition,
you've got great gut orjudgement, you really back your
(19:41):
understanding of something andyou can bring those things to
bear. So again, throughout mylife, personal/professional, I
feel like there are theseexperiences that you can bring
to bear as you think aboutsupporting folks professionally
from an investment perspective.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (19:54):
Yeah, no, that's really sound advice and
it seems to be a stream for moreand more investors. Or more to
the point, they're realisingthat this is the kind of life
that they have actually beenliving for a while and put it
into a framework a little bit,or you put it into perspective.
And then you can think, Oh,actually, what else could I do?
I don't necessarily just have tobe an investor, I could be going
(20:16):
and using my skills elsewhere.
Not only are you managing 100million+ in a VC fund for
Kindred capital, as a main role,you also have your side hustles.
In being a board member for manycompanies, as well as your
private angel investments, andyour support of charities, too.
And we talked about balance alittle bit before, but I guess
how do you juggle yourpriorities within your portfolio
(20:38):
life? How do you determine whattime you're going to give to
each element you know throughoutyour week?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (20:46):
I do think you need to be really
intentional about this stuff.
Because otherwise, you know, alot of people are run by their
inboxes, for example, and thenyou're letting someone else
essentially dictate orprioritise what you do, because
the thing that's at the top ofyour inbox is the thing that you
lay your attention to. So thekind of urgent and important
matrix and thinking about theintentionality behind how you
spend your time. So I thinkthere's a few different ways in
(21:09):
which I do this. One of which ismy husband. And I actually,
every year go through a set ofgoal setting really, almost like
a OKR process. But ourselves asindividuals, which is both has a
mix of personal and professionalin it. So we'll create a number
of the goals that are mostimportant to us to do in that
given year. And we'd have alovely dinner and talk about it
(21:31):
together and critique eachother's and get to a final form.
And then we have a mid-yearcheck in and an end of year
review, which we sounds quiteformulaic, but is always really
fun, and always includes quite abit of alcohol. And I think
what's really helpful about thatis you I think you have to find
these punctuation points,essentially, because life is
very busy and very fast moving.
(21:54):
And so you can pull your headup, and three months have gone
by and, again, you've beendictated by the here and now and
the things that are competingfor your time as opposed to the
intentionality of how you wantto spend it. And so putting
those punctuation points whereyou have to take a big step
back, think about what you wantto achieve over a given period
of time. And don't narrow it tosomething that's too short,
where you can't actually makemeaningful progress. But give
(22:17):
yourself six months or 12months. And then someone who
knows you very well, who caresfor you who can help keep you
honest, essentially making surethat you're sort of having those
check ins with with that personas well. I think the other thing
that we learned that we've madethis change a few years ago, is
kind of as we were talking aboutthat concept of being
generative, if both of us aregoing to be full time working
(22:39):
parents really involved in theworld involved in a number of
different initiatives that wecare about, the quantity of time
that we can spend, for example,with our kids, or as a family
unit is always going to havesome ceiling on it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:51):
Yeah.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (22:52):
And I think genuinely, I am a better
mother and wife and daughter andsister and friend and all the
rest of it because of all theamazing stimulus that I get in
my, in my job in my workingportfolio. And so because that
quantity of time is capped to anextent, I think we've just put
all our effort and focus intomaking it as high quality as
(23:12):
possible when we're together. Sofor us, I think that's worked
really well of saying you wantto do lots of different things,
you need to be able to do themin an intense enough way where
you get value, even if the timethat you're able to allocate
them is still relativelyconstricted.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (23:26):
Yeah, I'm really intrigued by this idea of
how you build up that energyfrom one another. And yeah,
intensity doesn't have to be anegative thing. Intensity, can
be a really, as you say,generative thing.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (23:39):
For me it is I think it's different for
different people, do your MyersBriggs personality test, see
where you get your energy from?
But for me, really, it's aboutpeople about other human beings
and being able to interact withthem and learn from them and
learn with them is somethingthat just gives me enormous
energy.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (23:57):
And is that something that you also have
reflected back to you in yourpartnership with your husband?
Leila Rastegar Zegn (24:02):
Completely.
I mean, I think personalitywise, we're very different
actually, in the sense that wehave different profiles, we have
different MBTI profiles. Butactually, what I find is that
this sort of fundamental valuesystem is very much the same.
And we both I think, just have areal passion for learning -
being continuous, lifelonglearners, for being really
(24:23):
curious. We're both involved invery different things. And so
it's really fun to be able tobring that into the relationship
and learn from each other andwhat we're doing. You know, I
was listening actually to,there's a famous marriage
counsellor, and Esther Perel,who's done a whole bunch of
podcasts. And she's this amazingindividual. And she gave a talk
in London a year or two ago, andI was listening to what she was
(24:44):
saying. And she essentially wastalking about how there's so
many different types ofrelationships that can work,
obviously, and for some of them,it's this, I own this realm, and
you own that realm and partnertogether and that's the way in
which we have a productiverelationship and for others,
everything very intermingled.
And I think you want to get thatmatch right, right? You want to
sort of be cognizant that youwant to be in one or the other
(25:06):
category, I think both of us areeating off of each other's
plates all the time in everyaspect of our lives type of
thing. And that works for us.
And it's great to have a partnerlike that.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:15):
Yeah, I mean, you do have very different
outlooks or different areas thatyou work in. But do you often
collaborate? And would you haveany advice for people who are
hearing more and more now,especially with people who are
facing redundancy, it's oftenhappening for both of them? And
then they think about, okay, howcan we work together? How can we
collaborate together? And thatcould be excellent, or it can be
(25:36):
a big strain on therelationship?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (25:38):
Oh, definitely.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:38):
Do you have any advice?
Leila Rastegar Zegn (25:39):
Definitely, it's really funny, because when
we were leaving, both of us arerunning businesses in San
Francisco. And when we left tomove over to London, we were
figuring out what to do next.
And my husband has a verycreative marketing type of brain
and I have a much moreanalytical mathematics type of
brain. And so it just seemed onpaper, like it would be this
perfect match. And we were like,let's brainstorm some ideas. And
(26:00):
let's see if maybe we build abusiness together. And so we got
out, there's a whiteboard, andthere was a pen. And I think
like 10 minutes later, we werealmost using that pen to sort of
sign the divorce paperwork typeof thing, like it was just, it
just clearly wasn't going towork for the two of us.
Interestingly, though, it'sworked incredibly well in
another context. So wecollaborate on a philanthropic
(26:21):
initiative that we have aroundRare Disease Research. And that
is, that's just been anextraordinary way of bringing
very differential skill sets tothe table. I think what what's
interesting about one versus theother is for one of them, we are
collaborating on a project whereit's owned and operated by
someone else. And we are inputs,and we're fueling that programme
(26:42):
in different ways.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:45):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (26:45):
Versus it being something that is ours,
where there is one CEO or onedecision maker, and for us, I
think it's just worked a lotbetter to be in the input
collaboration mode together, asopposed to there being one
decision maker. And I supposethe other thing, which isn't
maybe implicit in what I'msaying, but I think really
understanding and knowing whereyour great strengths are, but
(27:05):
your strengths tend to be theareas that you're really good
at, you really enjoy. And Ithink having the confidence in
that and leaning into that, butalso letting the other person
express where they have that,more clear separation of roles,
responsibilities andcapabilities, probably will lead
to a much, much better outcome.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:24):
Absolutely, you've given some amazing pieces
of advice. So thank you. And Iwonder what's the biggest lesson
you've learned or had to learnwithin your time or as a
portfolio professional that youwould impart on anybody who is
working their way up? Or along,perhaps, this career path? What
kind of stumbles? Have you hadthat you thought? "Actually, if
(27:45):
I was to do that, again, I wouldavoid that."
Leila Rastegar Zegna (27:49):
Yeah, I think that the best decisions
that I've made, and conversely,the worst decisions that I've
made, have all come down topeople, I tend to be quite
analytical and in my head, andactually, this coach that I was
telling you about said to me theother day said, I think you
treat your body is the way toget your head around, it's like
you're not actually thinkingabout your body at all, or what
(28:09):
it's telling you, it's just likethis vehicle to get the sort of
cerebral part of you around. AndI think sometimes you can
analyse an opportunity, a lot.
And you can say, well, gosh,this is a really exciting market
or space, or look at the amountof money that these guys have
raised or look at who else isinterested. And actually, the
reality is, I think, any companyany opportunity is just a set of
human individuals that areworking towards a common goal.
(28:29):
And all we know is that thefuture is uncertain. That is the
only certainty that has beenabsolutely validated by this
period of unprecedented economicand environmental times. And so
I think not anchoring to that atall and saying, hopefully, the
only constant here will be theindividual humans who are coming
around a project, an idea, acompany, an organisation, and so
(28:52):
tethering yourself to people whoyou respect deeply, who you
think you have a lot to learnfrom and with, who share the
same fundamental value system asyou do. I think those are the
most important things. And ifyou get that right, then those
people that kind of humancapital is going to go off and
do extraordinary things. And soeven if that one first project
(29:13):
doesn't work out, the next one,or the fifth one down the line,
to the famous Steve Jobs, quoteabout not being able to connect
the dots looking forward. Butlooking back, you absolutely
can.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:23):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (29:24):
I think, you know, I wouldn't be where I
am today, had it not been for afew conversations with a few
extraordinary individuals that Imet along the way without a
preconception of, I'm doing thisto get to there. They just have
to be quite open, I think, tothe serendipity and listen to
your gut when you meet someoneextraordinary.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:41):
Has that been anyone along the way that
really stands out for you as arole model, somebody that you
have come back to time and timeagain, whether that's personally
or from afar? That has reallyinspired that kind of outlook?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (29:55):
Yeah, definitely. I mean, many people
actually, I have someone who Iconsider as my mentor, I think
he would blush a lot if he knewthat I was calling him that. And
I don't think he would considerhimself that, which in part is
why I've gotten so much valuebecause it's been incredibly
organic, what sort of a formalrelationship.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:14):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (30:14):
But it's someone who I just respect
hugely both personally andprofessionally. And it's an
individual who had justastronomical success in Silicon
Valley, quite reasonably earlyon in his life. He was employee
number five at Google, and wenton to be their Chief Business
Officer and just anextraordinary career. But
(30:34):
really, instead of getting anyego and hubris from that,
actually is probably the mosthumble person I've ever spoken
to, thinks back to actually thetrade offs, the sacrifices that
he had to make in order to buildthat career. And one of which
was he and his wife at the timeseparated, they had two young
kids, he didn't get to see themas often as he would have liked
to. And he's trying to rectify alot of that in the life that he
(30:58):
leads now, which is stillincredibly high performance. He
was the executive chairman ofTwitter for a number of years,
has a number of board seats intruly game changing global
organisations, but is a familyman in a way in which I've
rarely seen with anyone elseI've come across, has all of his
values in the right place,talking more about his failures
than his achievements, and isjust someone who I aspire hugely
(31:21):
to in terms of how he's livedhis life. So certainly him and
then I would say, honestly, thepeople in my partnership that I
get to work with every day. AndI do think that was the
culmination of many, many yearsof saying, Well, if I get to
construct the reality in which Ilive in every single day, then
these are the people that I wantto pinch myself that I get to
work with and for, and I havethat which is amazing.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (31:40):
Oh, that's brilliant. I think that is a
perfect place to wrap up. It hasbeen truly a pleasure to talk to
you. I have learnt so much inthe last little bit and I wish
you every luck with everythingthat Kindred is going to do and
you're going to do personally.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (31:55):
Thank you so much, Lexi. It was great fun.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (31:57):
Fantastic.
Thanks very much.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (31:59):
All right.
Take care. Bye.
Welcome to the fifth episode of
PortfolioCast. Today, werespeaking with Leila Rastegar
Zegna. Leilas career has beenformed with hardworking roots
whilst reaching innovative andentrepreneurial heights. Whilst
balancing the management ofventure funds worth millions,
she is also a philanthropist whobelieves in portfolio life over
portfolio work. Welcome, Leila.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (00:30):
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:32):
So often, I start our PortfolioCast
conversations by starting at thebeginning. What I'd love to do
with you, Leila is start withwhere you are right now, because
it's a pretty exciting time. Myintroduction alluded to the
heights that you've reached. Butfirstly, I'd really like to
congratulate you on Kindred'ssecond fund of 81 million to
(00:53):
back-up even more early stagestartups.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (00:56):
Thank you.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:57):
It's an incredible success.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (00:58):
Thank you.
Yeah, it's a really excitingplace to be.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:01):
So from my perspective, the success is
huge. It's up there in bright,big letters. I mean, you've
experienced a lot of what I cansee as success. But I wonder how
you build up that success? Howdo you approach success, when
the heights are so high?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (01:16):
Yeah, thank you. I love this question.
Because I think actually, I'velearned so much along the way,
that kind of talking about thethe culmination of it, or the
aggregation of it, where I amnow versus the stepping stones
along the way, I think is areally interesting way of
looking at it. I would say youreach success by looking within,
(01:36):
which actually isn't necessarilywhere I started, which is why I
love that question so much, Ican see such a big difference in
the way in which I approach mylife and my career today,
instead of looking within it,what is much more of sort of
intrinsic motivation as opposedto thes extrinsic motivation.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:52):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (01:53):
So I think where I am now is this sort of
amazing place in my life, whereI'm able to channel sort of my
value system, the things that Icare about, the things that are
important to me in terms of thetype of work that I do, and the
type of people I surround myselfwith, because I've founded this
fund alongside a few otherextraordinary people. As you
(02:13):
guys know very well, from havingstarted this company. Anytime
you start a company/anorganisation, I think the
greatest privilege that you haveis you get to construct the
world around you that you wantto live in. And that world, it's
a function of the people who youchoose to bring around you. In
our case, it's not just ourpartnership, and our team at
Kindred, but it's all theentrepreneurs that we choose to
(02:34):
back and we get the privilege ofbacking out of the fund. But
it's also the value system, it'sthe ethos by which you do the
work. It's the systems, it's thespace, literally, it's
absolutely everything in yourworld is constructed to reflect
your worldview. And that justfeels like this enormous
privilege. I think sort oftaking that step back and
thinking about my journey tothis point, I think being a
(02:56):
product of a, an immigrantfamily in the US, and really, I
think doing a lot because it wasmy upbringing, my parents
telling me how important hardwork and dedication and
commitment was and getting an Awas better than getting a B and
going to a great university wasbetter than going to sort of a
second tier University. Andthere was this hierarchy of what
(03:16):
success actually looked like, inmy household and in my life. And
I think many people are raisedwith that type of ethos. And it
obviously has so many wonderfulthings that come with it. But it
it does have a flip side to thecoin, which is oftentimes you're
doing things for externalpraise, or the more classic
definitions of success andachievement. So it took me quite
(03:38):
a long time, probably into mymid 30s or so when I was a good
13-14 years into building mycareer and doing professional
work, when I think I found thething that feels much more
authentically me. And I thinksuccess really stems from that
at the end of the day.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (03:54):
Yeah, absolutely, it's really
important to take a look atthose two ends of the spectrum,
because quite often, we need tofind that middle ground, rather
than it being all about successin other people's eyes, and then
working towards success in ourown eyes.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (04:11):
Yeah, I think for a long time, and I'm
not even sure this is the rightstructure, but we're sort of
much more generallyphilosophically getting into
education. But I think for along time, there can be
structures within education, andthen within organisations that
really feed into that, that kindof show you the rungs on the
ladder that you need to climb.
And everything is quite means tothe end, as opposed to the
appreciation of the thing itselfin that moment in time. So, you
(04:34):
know, you take the honoursclass, to get into the right
university to get into the rightfirst job to then get promoted
within that job to then go tothe right business school in my
case. So you can actually getquite far without ever having to
take a big step back and thinkgenuinely about the things that
you over index to the thingsthat you love, which tend to be
the things that you're reallygood at and vice versa and start
(04:55):
building from that standpoint.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (04:58):
Yeah, I mean, was there anything that
triggered that reflection, thatstep back?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (05:04):
Yeah, I think there wasn't a very
logical next rung on the ladder,frankly. I mean, I think I was
graduating from business schooland my classmates were going to
all sorts of wild and wonderfulplaces. So I was - "okay, do I
want to go and work in thenonprofit sector and work up
leadership ranks within thatsphere? Do I want to go into
(05:25):
sort of the big corporate world?
Do I want to start a company doI want to be in technology? Do I
want to be an investor?" And allof a sudden, this whole world
was open. And I wasn't at thestage of my career where it was
like, just get a first job, goget a great training somewhere.
It was, you should now knowyourself well enough to know
that the next thing you do ishopefully building a track to
something. And I just thinkthere's a lot of pressure on
(05:46):
young people today, maybe on allpeople today, but certainly
young people to find that thingwhere they're going to self
actualize, which is like such aperfect combination of their
passions and their financialmoney making abilities, and to
do that really early on. And Ithink that that pressure
sometimes leads people to make adecision before they really know
who they are, and what theymight want to do with their
(06:08):
lives. So portfolio careers,which, which I know is the bulk
of what we're talking abouttoday, I think it's just
extraordinarily beneficial.
Also, for sort of differentjunctures of your life where,
you know, both you've gotten toknow yourself much better over
time. But contexts change andopportunities change and
environments change. So givingyourself that ability to invent
(06:29):
and reinvent as you go along, Ithink it's really powerful.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (06:32):
Yeah, and that kind of reinvention is
something that is so at theheart of portfolio careers,
because we never really standstill for too long. And that's a
trait that I see again, again,when I'm having these
conversations. And when we spokeabout you becoming one of our
founding members, you mentionedabout having, or rather how you
feel about living a portfolio oflife, and how that is then
(06:55):
reflected back between yourpersonal life and your working
life. Rather than it just beinga career path. Would you mind
talking a little bit more aboutthis way of living and how it's
been for you?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (07:06):
Yeah, I think we all have so many
different responsibilities inour lives, but also so many
different passions. Like, again,going back to this education
example, there was a time whenthe day looked like, you know,
morning doing maths, and scienceand English and literature and
language and art, and you hadthis full spectrum, and sports
(07:28):
and everything in between. Andthen as we get older, as
traditionally, we've gotten justnarrower and narrower in terms
of the types of things thatwe're unable to do. And some of
that is building depth andexpertise in a single area. And
so you have to rinse, repeat,and the law of 10,000 hours, but
I feel that we've really lostsomewhere along the way, that
real breadth to our characters,our personalities. And, frankly,
(07:51):
I think what fuels us to begreat at those things that we do
dedicate a lot more time to. SoI found that I went through a
period of great expansion aseveryone did when they were very
young to becoming more narrowlyfocused on a given category. And
then little by little, I thinkthe last certainly five years,
if not 10 years, starting tolike bolt on more things,
whether that's new projectsoutside of work, or whether
(08:13):
that's in my my home life, mypersonal life, which I was
alluding to, in that firstconversation, where we have
three young startups at home, wehave, we have three young kids.
And you know, we're building afamily ourselves, we're building
a new network for ourselves inLondon, where we moved five
years ago. So that sort offriendships and relationships.
And what I've realised is thatin adding all those things into
(08:34):
my life, instead of having lesstime for any one thing, I feel
like my world has expandedhugely. And actually, I feel
that they each make me so muchbetter at the other thing that
I'm doing. Each of them gives meenergy in a different way. And
therefore, you get this lovely,non zero sum phenomenon where
you somehow get more energy,more capacity, more time, from
(08:57):
doing things that are genuinelyinteresting to you in different
ways.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:00):
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's an
incredible way of describing it.
Because there is definitelythere's all these many, many
pulls on your time. How do youapproach that kind of balance?
And how do you approach gettingtime for just you in all the
things that you do? Is thatpossible, especially with being
a parent as well?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (09:20):
So I'm particularly bad at that last
one, so I won't, I won't pretendto be good. I actually think
that Coronavirus and thelockdown and everything has been
particularly challenging forpeople on that front because
somehow the separation for me ofgetting up putting on sort of
professional work clothes,leaving the house going to an
office and then coming back,there was more of a separation
(09:42):
between one and the other. Andalso there was just more commute
time / downtime in betweenversus if I can hear my family
in the other room, when you andI get off of a podcast call I'm
gonna shut my computer andimmediately go there because
there's such a scarcity of timefor anything that you love. You
just try and pack the day asfull as you can. So it's taken
(10:03):
me six months or so to settleinto something that looks like
it's going to be a new, at leasthybrid, way of working for quite
a long time to come.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (10:11):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (10:11):
And really understand the importance, as
you say, have some time just foryou. And so I'm trying to build
those ends little by little, butI think it comes from this
voracious appetite to be withthe people I love and do the
things that I love to do. So onthat front, I can't claim that I
do a great job. But I think theway in which I think about
balance is much more work/lifeintegration, as opposed to
(10:34):
work/life balance, which I thinkhas come in a very physical
manifestation over lockdown. Andmany people that you talk to, I
think, have seen a reallyenormous silver lining to that,
that sort of time spent in oneanother's company, and all those
little moments. But I think I'veprobably never had balance in my
life, so to speak, and balance,I think, inherently talks about
(10:55):
some perfect equilibrium, whichI think is an impossible
standard. But also, I think, asyou think about balance, well,
there's this troubling thingover here, it needs to be
balanced by something that ispositive, or you have a positive
and negative and they tend to bekind of counterweights to each
other. And yeah, that's not, Iguess how I see or aspire to
live my life. And I think it'sfiguring out a way of, as I
(11:17):
said, getting energy from boththings.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:19):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (11:19):
One of my partners in the firm has a word
that he uses, I reference a lotvery much resonates with me,
which is a word around thingsbeing "generative". So if I come
into a meeting with you, and weboth bring a lot of our brain
power, and our physical energy,mental energy, emotional energy,
we can leave it all in the roomand give it everything that we
(11:41):
have. Oftentimes, you'll leavethat room and you'll actually
have more energy than when youcame in. Like you've just
created something, you'vegenerated something with that
other person. And then othertimes you'll go in, and it can
be a really basic meeting,you're not actually bringing a
huge amount of yourself and youcan leave just feel like
completely drained and depleted.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:59):
Yeah.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (11:59):
So I think figuring out for yourself, what
is generative? What are thosethings that actually generate
energy for you, and then usingthose sort of reserves, if you
will be able to do all thoseother things that are required
of you as an individual. That'sthe way I try and think about
this balance question that youasked.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:15):
That's - yeah, that's a really good way
of describing it, especially theword generative, I think that's
yeah, that's definitely going tocome back for me, I think
that...
Leila Rastegar Zegna (12:23):
I've stolen that from him. Now, I'm
making it my own,
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:27):
It's definitely going to come into my
vocabulary from now on. Sothat's a good way of looking at
it. You mentioned that aboutyour voracious appetite for new
things for new work for, forcreating. And certainly, your
successes, as we've alreadydiscussed, are very much based
on a foundation of a lot of hardwork, you've obviously applied
yourself to do the hard work andreally create something whether
(12:48):
that was studying at Yale, orthen your MBA at Harvard, and
all the businesses that youformed and supported along the
way. And we touched briefly onyour family being a touchstone
on that, and certainly a drivingforce. But I wondered if you
wanted to talk a bit more abouthow that mindset was created,
and how it's taken you from A toB and forwards?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (13:11):
Yeah, so one of my companies that I
helped start with a geneticscompany, a genomics company, and
I'm a big believer in, innature, as well as nurture, I
think there are things that arehard coded into your DNA. It's
quite interesting to watch thechildhood videos of myself and
my older sister, who's she'sthree and a half years older
than me. And there's agymnastics class that we're in
(13:32):
when I'm three, and she's six.
And this other kid in the classdoes a somersault and you see my
sister being like, "That'sawesome", like, "Well done, you
can do a somersault", and thenit pans over to me, and I'm
like, "Oh, she thinks she coulddo a somersault. Like I'll show
you a somersault." You see mylittle three year old self
trying to compete with these sixyear olds, and we're just wired
differently.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (13:51):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (13:51):
I think I always had a bit of that
competitive spirit in me verymuch around competition with
myself and trying to alwaysstrive to be better and
continuous improvement. And Ithink that was fueled by the
fact that I grew up with myfather from the age of 11. And
my sister grew up with my mum.
And she went back to universityto get her graduate degree. So
we were we were separated. Myfather is quite a hard driving
(14:14):
competitive, A is better than Bkind of guy. So I think that
also really shaped a lot of myearly years of being really
proud to do well and show himthat I had done well. And then I
think there's now as I wastalking about the first
question, there's a greatinternal intrinsic motivation
and much more authenticity, Ithink in myself to why I care
(14:37):
about doing well and the thingsthat I'm doing now and frankly,
across everything that I do, Ifeel like it's it's really about
others as opposed to being aboutme. And that feels like a much
better place. It feels like I'mdoing things for reasons that
are really important to me asopposed to somehow trying to get
the award and then show it offto someone else. So it's been a
(14:58):
real journey to that. But Ithink a lot of it is nature and
then a good dose of nurture inthere as well.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (15:06):
Yeah, absolutely. I definitely like
that theory. Nature really doesdrive you I have a very similar
reaction to how I've beenbrought up with my Dad, also the
examples that we were givengrowing up? Yeah, that's very
hard working will work longhours. And it's like one of
those conversations that youconstantly hear parroted back to
you, my grandparents saying,you're very much like a father.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (15:28):
Yeah, of course. And then I think that
makes you sort of hear thatcategorization early on, and
then you make it true. It's likea self fulfilling prophecy. And
I think about it a lot now as amum, because I think both my
parents were these extraordinaryindividuals, great parents
really loving, really nurturing.
And so when I came home with astraight A report card, my
(15:48):
father was really proud of me.
And there's nothing wrong withthat. And that he, of course he
was doing - he was proud. Andthat's great. But I think
tacitly or implicitly, childrenare quite susceptible to
thinking that their love, ortheir admiration, in some sense
is linked to the achievement asopposed to who you actually are.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:06):
Yeah.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (16:07):
And so I think about that a lot. Now,
when my children do things thatI'm really proud of them for
doing. Do you congratulate theaction? Do you congratulate the
effort? Do you just say, Great,let's laugh about good things
and bad things? Like I thinkthere's much more awareness in
terms of those subtle signs andsignals that you give to your
kids over time, but it certainlyplayed a role in my life growing
up.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (16:26):
Yeah, definitely. And that self
awareness, levels of selfawareness, has definitely
developed over generations. Isee portfolio careers as an
obvious choice for investors toget involved with, especially
now, I've learned more about youand from you, what would you
recommend to fellow investorsconsidering a change, looking at
(16:47):
whether they should becontinuing in a normal nine to
five? If that's even possible?
There's lots of changing workingenvironments at the moment, or
just considering moving awayfrom just a singular role and
maybe exploring other avenues?
What kind of advice would you,would you give them when they're
looking at it thinking "Whatnext?"
Leila Rastegar Zegna (17:06):
Yeah, I think it's particularly suited,
actually, to investors and ininvestment roles. And part of
that is, I'm thinking aboutinvesting in a company, my hope
is that that founder, that CEO,that team knows more about that
company, that market insight,the dynamics that are very
specific to what they'reoperating in 24/7, than I will,
(17:28):
but what I will know are thingsthat they can't see if they are
in that narrow, very deep veinof being constantly focused
around one thing, one problemthey're trying to solve. And so
I think part of the benefit ofbeing an investor and having
this meta level view across manydifferent businesses, in many
different segments, with manydifferent customer bases and
business models, is actuallythere's far more connectivity to
(17:51):
those dots than may initiallymeet the eye. And so I think
breakthroughs in thought oropening up a window of
opportunity for a founder isvery much predicated on you
being able to see things thatthey by definition don't. And in
my experience, that's been aportfolio literally is the word
that we use to talk about ourown investment portfolio. So
looking at adjacencies, orcommonalities across businesses
(18:14):
that may seem very disparate orvery separate. But also in my
personal life I was having thisconversation with, we use an
executive coach at Kindred atour venture fund. So he works
with us as individual InvestmentPartners, but also on the team
dynamic. And he's been anextraordinary asset to us. I was
having a conversation with him acouple of weeks ago. And he
said, asking me about places inmy life that I felt are very
(18:37):
generative for me, and placeswhere I felt like I had
something really to add, where Iwas quite confident in my
abilities. And I spoke aboutbeing a mother. And I said, I've
only been doing it for fiveyears, our eldest child has
special needs. And I am by nomeans an expert in disabilities
or special needs. I haven't readthe psychology books around
(18:58):
parenting. I'm not apsychologist, PhD by training.
But I feel very confident in mysort of intuition and abilities
as a mum. And if there wasanother parent who wanted to
speak to me about some issuethey were struggling with, or
they were trying to workthrough, I would be so excited
to take that call and give themat least some of what I've
learned along the way. And wewere trying to think about that
(19:19):
mindset on how to take thatmindset into the investment
realm that I work inprofessionally, where you're not
the expert in the room, again,on that domain or on that
technology, or you shouldn't beotherwise you probably shouldn't
be investing in that CEO. Butactually there are some areas
where you have - you over-index,you've got great intuition,
you've got great gut orjudgement, you really back your
(19:41):
understanding of something andyou can bring those things to
bear. So again, throughout mylife, personal/professional, I
feel like there are theseexperiences that you can bring
to bear as you think aboutsupporting folks professionally
from an investment perspective.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (19:54):
Yeah, no, that's really sound advice and
it seems to be a stream for moreand more investors. Or more to
the point, they're realisingthat this is the kind of life
that they have actually beenliving for a while and put it
into a framework a little bit,or you put it into perspective.
And then you can think, Oh,actually, what else could I do?
I don't necessarily just have tobe an investor, I could be going
(20:16):
and using my skills elsewhere.
Not only are you managing 100million+ in a VC fund for
Kindred capital, as a main role,you also have your side hustles.
In being a board member for manycompanies, as well as your
private angel investments, andyour support of charities, too.
And we talked about balance alittle bit before, but I guess
how do you juggle yourpriorities within your portfolio
(20:38):
life? How do you determine whattime you're going to give to
each element you know throughoutyour week?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (20:46):
I do think you need to be really
intentional about this stuff.
Because otherwise, you know, alot of people are run by their
inboxes, for example, and thenyou're letting someone else
essentially dictate orprioritise what you do, because
the thing that's at the top ofyour inbox is the thing that you
lay your attention to. So thekind of urgent and important
matrix and thinking about theintentionality behind how you
spend your time. So I thinkthere's a few different ways in
(21:09):
which I do this. One of which ismy husband. And I actually,
every year go through a set ofgoal setting really, almost like
a OKR process. But ourselves asindividuals, which is both has a
mix of personal and professionalin it. So we'll create a number
of the goals that are mostimportant to us to do in that
given year. And we'd have alovely dinner and talk about it
(21:31):
together and critique eachother's and get to a final form.
And then we have a mid-yearcheck in and an end of year
review, which we sounds quiteformulaic, but is always really
fun, and always includes quite abit of alcohol. And I think
what's really helpful about thatis you I think you have to find
these punctuation points,essentially, because life is
very busy and very fast moving.
(21:54):
And so you can pull your headup, and three months have gone
by and, again, you've beendictated by the here and now and
the things that are competingfor your time as opposed to the
intentionality of how you wantto spend it. And so putting
those punctuation points whereyou have to take a big step
back, think about what you wantto achieve over a given period
of time. And don't narrow it tosomething that's too short,
where you can't actually makemeaningful progress. But give
(22:17):
yourself six months or 12months. And then someone who
knows you very well, who caresfor you who can help keep you
honest, essentially making surethat you're sort of having those
check ins with with that personas well. I think the other thing
that we learned that we've madethis change a few years ago, is
kind of as we were talking aboutthat concept of being
generative, if both of us aregoing to be full time working
(22:39):
parents really involved in theworld involved in a number of
different initiatives that wecare about, the quantity of time
that we can spend, for example,with our kids, or as a family
unit is always going to havesome ceiling on it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:51):
Yeah.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (22:52):
And I think genuinely, I am a better
mother and wife and daughter andsister and friend and all the
rest of it because of all theamazing stimulus that I get in
my, in my job in my workingportfolio. And so because that
quantity of time is capped to anextent, I think we've just put
all our effort and focus intomaking it as high quality as
(23:12):
possible when we're together. Sofor us, I think that's worked
really well of saying you wantto do lots of different things,
you need to be able to do themin an intense enough way where
you get value, even if the timethat you're able to allocate
them is still relativelyconstricted.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (23:26):
Yeah, I'm really intrigued by this idea of
how you build up that energyfrom one another. And yeah,
intensity doesn't have to be anegative thing. Intensity, can
be a really, as you say,generative thing.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (23:39):
For me it is I think it's different for
different people, do your MyersBriggs personality test, see
where you get your energy from?
But for me, really, it's aboutpeople about other human beings
and being able to interact withthem and learn from them and
learn with them is somethingthat just gives me enormous
energy.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (23:57):
And is that something that you also have
reflected back to you in yourpartnership with your husband?
Leila Rastegar Zegn (24:02):
Completely.
I mean, I think personalitywise, we're very different
actually, in the sense that wehave different profiles, we have
different MBTI profiles. Butactually, what I find is that
this sort of fundamental valuesystem is very much the same.
And we both I think, just have areal passion for learning -
being continuous, lifelonglearners, for being really
(24:23):
curious. We're both involved invery different things. And so
it's really fun to be able tobring that into the relationship
and learn from each other andwhat we're doing. You know, I
was listening actually to,there's a famous marriage
counsellor, and Esther Perel,who's done a whole bunch of
podcasts. And she's this amazingindividual. And she gave a talk
in London a year or two ago, andI was listening to what she was
(24:44):
saying. And she essentially wastalking about how there's so
many different types ofrelationships that can work,
obviously, and for some of them,it's this, I own this realm, and
you own that realm and partnertogether and that's the way in
which we have a productiverelationship and for others,
everything very intermingled.
And I think you want to get thatmatch right, right? You want to
sort of be cognizant that youwant to be in one or the other
(25:06):
category, I think both of us areeating off of each other's
plates all the time in everyaspect of our lives type of
thing. And that works for us.
And it's great to have a partnerlike that.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:15):
Yeah, I mean, you do have very different
outlooks or different areas thatyou work in. But do you often
collaborate? And would you haveany advice for people who are
hearing more and more now,especially with people who are
facing redundancy, it's oftenhappening for both of them? And
then they think about, okay, howcan we work together? How can we
collaborate together? And thatcould be excellent, or it can be
(25:36):
a big strain on therelationship?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (25:38):
Oh, definitely.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:38):
Do you have any advice?
Leila Rastegar Zegn (25:39):
Definitely, it's really funny, because when
we were leaving, both of us arerunning businesses in San
Francisco. And when we left tomove over to London, we were
figuring out what to do next.
And my husband has a verycreative marketing type of brain
and I have a much moreanalytical mathematics type of
brain. And so it just seemed onpaper, like it would be this
perfect match. And we were like,let's brainstorm some ideas. And
(26:00):
let's see if maybe we build abusiness together. And so we got
out, there's a whiteboard, andthere was a pen. And I think
like 10 minutes later, we werealmost using that pen to sort of
sign the divorce paperwork typeof thing, like it was just, it
just clearly wasn't going towork for the two of us.
Interestingly, though, it'sworked incredibly well in
another context. So wecollaborate on a philanthropic
(26:21):
initiative that we have aroundRare Disease Research. And that
is, that's just been anextraordinary way of bringing
very differential skill sets tothe table. I think what what's
interesting about one versus theother is for one of them, we are
collaborating on a project whereit's owned and operated by
someone else. And we are inputs,and we're fueling that programme
(26:42):
in different ways.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:45):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (26:45):
Versus it being something that is ours,
where there is one CEO or onedecision maker, and for us, I
think it's just worked a lotbetter to be in the input
collaboration mode together, asopposed to there being one
decision maker. And I supposethe other thing, which isn't
maybe implicit in what I'msaying, but I think really
understanding and knowing whereyour great strengths are, but
(27:05):
your strengths tend to be theareas that you're really good
at, you really enjoy. And Ithink having the confidence in
that and leaning into that, butalso letting the other person
express where they have that,more clear separation of roles,
responsibilities andcapabilities, probably will lead
to a much, much better outcome.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:24):
Absolutely, you've given some amazing pieces
of advice. So thank you. And Iwonder what's the biggest lesson
you've learned or had to learnwithin your time or as a
portfolio professional that youwould impart on anybody who is
working their way up? Or along,perhaps, this career path? What
kind of stumbles? Have you hadthat you thought? "Actually, if
(27:45):
I was to do that, again, I wouldavoid that."
Leila Rastegar Zegna (27:49):
Yeah, I think that the best decisions
that I've made, and conversely,the worst decisions that I've
made, have all come down topeople, I tend to be quite
analytical and in my head, andactually, this coach that I was
telling you about said to me theother day said, I think you
treat your body is the way toget your head around, it's like
you're not actually thinkingabout your body at all, or what
(28:09):
it's telling you, it's just likethis vehicle to get the sort of
cerebral part of you around. AndI think sometimes you can
analyse an opportunity, a lot.
And you can say, well, gosh,this is a really exciting market
or space, or look at the amountof money that these guys have
raised or look at who else isinterested. And actually, the
reality is, I think, any companyany opportunity is just a set of
human individuals that areworking towards a common goal.
(28:29):
And all we know is that thefuture is uncertain. That is the
only certainty that has beenabsolutely validated by this
period of unprecedented economicand environmental times. And so
I think not anchoring to that atall and saying, hopefully, the
only constant here will be theindividual humans who are coming
around a project, an idea, acompany, an organisation, and so
(28:52):
tethering yourself to people whoyou respect deeply, who you
think you have a lot to learnfrom and with, who share the
same fundamental value system asyou do. I think those are the
most important things. And ifyou get that right, then those
people that kind of humancapital is going to go off and
do extraordinary things. And soeven if that one first project
(29:13):
doesn't work out, the next one,or the fifth one down the line,
to the famous Steve Jobs, quoteabout not being able to connect
the dots looking forward. Butlooking back, you absolutely
can.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:23):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (29:24):
I think, you know, I wouldn't be where I
am today, had it not been for afew conversations with a few
extraordinary individuals that Imet along the way without a
preconception of, I'm doing thisto get to there. They just have
to be quite open, I think, tothe serendipity and listen to
your gut when you meet someoneextraordinary.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:41):
Has that been anyone along the way that
really stands out for you as arole model, somebody that you
have come back to time and timeagain, whether that's personally
or from afar? That has reallyinspired that kind of outlook?
Leila Rastegar Zegna (29:55):
Yeah, definitely. I mean, many people
actually, I have someone who Iconsider as my mentor, I think
he would blush a lot if he knewthat I was calling him that. And
I don't think he would considerhimself that, which in part is
why I've gotten so much valuebecause it's been incredibly
organic, what sort of a formalrelationship.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:14):
Yeah,
Leila Rastegar Zegna (30:14):
But it's someone who I just respect
hugely both personally andprofessionally. And it's an
individual who had justastronomical success in Silicon
Valley, quite reasonably earlyon in his life. He was employee
number five at Google, and wenton to be their Chief Business
Officer and just anextraordinary career. But
(30:34):
really, instead of getting anyego and hubris from that,
actually is probably the mosthumble person I've ever spoken
to, thinks back to actually thetrade offs, the sacrifices that
he had to make in order to buildthat career. And one of which
was he and his wife at the timeseparated, they had two young
kids, he didn't get to see themas often as he would have liked
to. And he's trying to rectify alot of that in the life that he
(30:58):
leads now, which is stillincredibly high performance. He
was the executive chairman ofTwitter for a number of years,
has a number of board seats intruly game changing global
organisations, but is a familyman in a way in which I've
rarely seen with anyone elseI've come across, has all of his
values in the right place,talking more about his failures
than his achievements, and isjust someone who I aspire hugely
(31:21):
to in terms of how he's livedhis life. So certainly him and
then I would say, honestly, thepeople in my partnership that I
get to work with every day. AndI do think that was the
culmination of many, many yearsof saying, Well, if I get to
construct the reality in which Ilive in every single day, then
these are the people that I wantto pinch myself that I get to
work with and for, and I havethat which is amazing.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (31:40):
Oh, that's brilliant. I think that is a
perfect place to wrap up. It hasbeen truly a pleasure to talk to
you. I have learnt so much inthe last little bit and I wish
you every luck with everythingthat Kindred is going to do and
you're going to do personally.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (31:55):
Thank you so much, Lexi. It was great fun.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (31:57):
Fantastic.
Thanks very much.
Leila Rastegar Zegna (31:59):
All right.
Take care. Bye.
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