December 11, 2020 • 30 mins
Episode 7
We interview Anthony Main, on:
- fuelling your entrepreneurial spirit
- disconnecting to create better balance
- networking consciously, even online
- sharing, and keeping it human, and
- little pivots, not full 180s.
Having started his work with a portfolio career, Anthony has gone on to create The Distance, an award winning App agency, and is now looking back to his portfolio roots to carve out the next chapter.
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Episode Transcript
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Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:10):
Welcome to the seventh episode of
PortfolioCast. Today we'respeaking with Anthony Main.
Having started his work with aportfolio career, before it was
even known as a portfoliocareer, Anthony has gone on to
create The Distance, anaward-winning App Agency, and is
now looking back to his earlierroots to carve out his next
chapter. Welcome, Anthony.
Anthony Main (00:28):
Hi, nice to see you.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:29):
Great to have you here. I'd love to start
right back at the beginningbefore you created The Distance.
As a developer and as I said,you had a portfolio career
before it was known as aportfolio career, as a
freelancer. How did you use yourfreelancing portfolio career to
your benefit?
Anthony Main (00:46):
I've never really thought about it like that.
There was a lot I learnedwithout realising it. So when I
had a full time job, I also hadlots of freelance work on the
side. So when I actually didstep out into the business world
of my own, with my business, Iactually already had a wealth of
portfolio and customers andeverything else. So my first
year, I earnt the same as I didin my full time job. And that
(01:08):
was only because I had alreadycreated this collection of
existing clients, and everythingelse. So without realising it, I
guess I did have a portfoliocareer.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:16):
And networks are really important to
how we all work. But even moreimportant, right now. Do you
still have people that you leanon from the past, or people that
you have been inspired by whenyou were first setting up, etc?
Anthony Main (01:31):
Yeah, when I stepped out, I relied heavily on
my network. So before I steppedout, I'd had six full time jobs
at various agencies aroundYorkshire. And if it wasn't for
those and the closerelationships I built in every
single one of those agencies,the startup business I had, and
the immediate clients I had, Iwouldn't have, I wouldn't have
(01:51):
got anywhere. I didn't know howto do sales, I didn't know how
to do marketing. And it wassimply I was inundated with
calls from my previouscolleagues and managers and
employers who needed me to carryon doing my skills because they
knew how good I was, at whateverI did, and it fit what they
needed. And that just became myclient base. And nowadays, I
(02:12):
have very different networking,my networking is now my peers,
various other business owners,and especially in this this
certain time that we are allgoing through, they're really,
really important. So I'm part ofa growth group on the back of a
course I did. We've known eachother now for the best part six
years. In the real world. We gottogether every three months, and
we've visited each other'soffices, and we know each
(02:32):
other's businesses intimatelynow. But we got together and
every week, we have a call everyThursday morning, just
supporting each other making,helping each other make some
really, really big decisionsthis year. It's been absolutely
invaluable.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (02:44):
That's fantastic to hear. You went on
to create The Distance,obviously. And this year, the
business was named App Agency of2020, which is amazing.
Congratulations.
Anthony Main (02:54):
Yeah, we've done, we've done well, awards-wise
this year. Really well.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (02:57):
Yeah, of course, like most startups, it
wasn't all plain sailing. And Iknow that everything's fantastic
now, but would you mind goingback a bit and talking about the
pivot that you had to make toget to where you are now?
Anthony Main (03:11):
Yeah, I guess those two things kind of came in
the other way round for us. Sowe have been through a
rollercoaster over the last 12years. At one point we have have
nearly closed. And I've beenquite open and spoken about that
in the past. But the first andthe most major pivot we did was
right at the start. So my skillswere originally as a web
developer, I stepped out as afreelance web developer. Within
(03:33):
probably nine months, I wasn'tdoing any web development. I
was, I'd use my technical skillsto embrace the mobile space. I
found it fascinating. I've beendoing web development for a long
period by that point. And Iwanted a new challenge. So I
ended up merging my businesswith someone else, he took on
the web book, and I focusedpurely on mobile. And that's
(03:53):
where I planted my flag. AndI've been flying it for the best
part of 15 years now dedicatedpurely on mobile development,
because the market justflourished. And I guess that's
one of the important things whenyou're running a business, you
have to look for thoseopportunities. I'm already
seeing what potentially needs tobe a minor pivot for us right
now, based upon some changes intechnology. And if Apple make a
(04:16):
decision quite soon, we're gonnahave to pivot a little bit,
quite quickly.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (04:20):
Yeah.
Understanding your market andunderstanding who your potential
client is going to be or yourclients are going to be, i's so
so so important, but also takingon, like you say, taking on new
challenges that you'repassionate about. And I'm
guessing that your passion hasled you throughout all of the
development of so many differentapps. And that changed from web
(04:40):
to mobile.
Anthony Main (04:43):
Yeah, I'm - my friends I used to live with when
I was slightly older used tocall me - a social geek. I was
blowing up computers at the ageof 13. And thanks to my mum and
dad's support for that passionof mine, but I found that my mum
and dad made me quite roundedindividual. And so I was able to
communicate and everything elsewith people, yet still talk
(05:05):
about technology and dumb itdown to a level that becomes a
conversation, whereas thetypical outlook of what a techie
was, was glasses with a plasterbetween them, only came out
between the hours of midnightand 4am and had long greasy
hair. So I kind of broke thatmould a little bit. And now
we're all technologists, right?
We have to be.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (05:24):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there
definitely was those thosestereotypes that were very hard
to avoid. But well done forflying flag on that one too. A
lot of people, professionals,business owners, are going to be
facing the sort of strugglesthat you have done in the past.
(05:45):
And, you know, you've beenthrough, you know, 12 years
running, you've been through arecession, or you've come out
the other side of one recession.
And they may be looking withconcern to 2021. What advice
would you give to somebody whois where you were at, you know,
having to make those decisionsabout what to pivot or what to
change?
Anthony Main (06:05):
Everyone would love to have a crystal ball with
the answers in, but they don'texist. So the best that anyone
can do is think plan,strategise, try and predict
things. There is a book byRichard Branson. And the whole
topic of the book is basicallyhow he'd make big gambles, but
(06:28):
they weren't really gamblesbecause they're always
calculated. So he knew that hecould spend 2 million pounds,
taking a risk.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (06:34):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (06:35):
And it was a complete risk. And but he was,
he knew that he could throw awaythat 2 million pounds. So we
have to be in that sort ofmindset, we have to take the
risks, we have to be very waryof what we're doing. But there
is always going to be a bit of agamble. Just try and be as
calculated, plan ahead, makesure that you do have a buffer
or something to support thefallback plan, I guess, like
(06:58):
we're talking about here,portfolio careers - go for that.
If you've got fingers in lots ofdifferent pies, some may fail,
thers may succeed. And then youan quickly make your pivot
ecisions based upon the successtories and not the failures.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (07:11):
Yeah, we've actually just published an
article looking at startups, orhow rather, startups can be
created from portfolio careers.
What sort of advice would yougive to someone who has that
burning entrepreneurial spirit,and is looking for an outlet to
create a new startup,potentially?
Anthony Main (07:30):
Yeah, I mean, it drives a lot of us. And it is
very, very tempting becausepeople see the new stories of
these massive success stories,that people have had with these
these side hustles andeverything else. The problem is
the big news stories are thinand far between in terms of the
massive success. Any startup,well, all right, 99% of startups
(07:51):
need a lot of work, there is amassive commitment to get them
over that line from a great ideato something that is got
longevity, as we all know, moststartups fail within a few
years. And it's gutting to see.
So, any entrepreneur or anapptrepreneur, as I call those
that want to focus on the appspace, they need to be really,
really committed. And thatcommitment needs to be thought
(08:16):
through carefully because thetime commitment is one thing but
it then will look at affectingyour family life, you have to
have the support of other peoplearound you, willing to let you
have that. And as you sort ofsay, you need something else. If
you have plenty of cash and youcan go all in, then great. But a
portfolio career is the idealway for people to support that
(08:36):
ambition, that opportunity, butyou've got to then try and get
that time balance right. If youthen look for VC funding, for
example, they're going to wantyou 100% committed. So you've
got to think carefully aboutwhere my time commitment is and
are you going to be resilientand patient enough to wait to
get to that point of confidence.
That is a long term goal, ratherthan just a short lived dream.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:00):
Yeah, I mean, there is a difference
between starting up a startupand having a business that
recognises the different rolesyou have. So you can be self
employed, stick a company nameon it, you know, attach yourself
to different roles, etc. andstill have a portfolio career.
You don't necessarily have to godown the startup route. But
there's definitely theexcitement there with startups
(09:21):
isn't there?
Anthony Main (09:22):
Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
And there's a lot of support forthem. There is a huge amount of
businesses that are able tosupport you with a lot of free
advice, free content, everythingelse. Starting a business in
21st century is very, verydifferent to what it was before.
Even the local governments havelots and lots of provision for
new businesses. So theopportunities there for those
that have the confidence and thebit between the teeth and the
(09:46):
sheer strength to do it, to befair.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:49):
Yeah.
Bringing us up to the presentday. You're now embarking on a
new chapter of your own careerand you're developing yourself
as a mentor, a consultant,taking on board positions. How
are you approaching these newopportunities having run your
own business for a number ofyears?
Anthony Main (10:08):
Sure. So the two kind of very intermixed so our
clients come to us and many ofthem are the startups that we've
just been talking about. Andthey have great ideas. But their
background can be anything, theyaren't necessarily technically
astute, they won't necessarilyknow the right decision. So I've
always worn a bit of a hat intheir camp. And so in many
(10:29):
cases, I've acted as an interimCTO, or digital director, or
whatever the title might havebeen, to help them with that,
that vision from the technicalaspect. That's what our whole
business is able to provide. Asthe business continues to
develop, and the startups westart to support, start to grow.
(10:50):
I am often asked to take a moreformal position in that sort of
space and help with a morepermanent role. And I do see
that some time in my future,it's not immediately. But as our
business continues to grow anddevelop, I will be able to have
a more formal commitment to someof our clients and give them
that more permanent fixture.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:10):
Will you be looking outside of your client
base for new opportunities? Orare you keeping it close to
home? Close to what you know?
Anthony Main (11:20):
So very good question. We've started to
structure our proposals invarious different ways. So we
can now offer parts of ourservice rather than necessarily
the full app developmentlifecycle.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:32):
Yep.
Anthony Main (11:32):
One of the most important parts is that
discovery element at the start,where we help work with
businesses just to define,structure and explicitly capture
the requirements for thatclient. And that's then used to
go on to development or go for afunding round, put it out for
crowdfunding. And we're doing alot more of that initial piece
(11:52):
of work, which is what someonein my sort of position can help
a business do. Find that idea,justify it, do the due diligence
about the technical side of it,before they start to make that
big investment. We will end updoing a lot more of that for a
much wider number of customersthan those that do go through a
full development lifecycle withus.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:11):
Where do you find the most interest? Is
it still in app development? Oris it in that initial phases? Or
is it helping and mentoringpeople with fantastic ideas, but
need that support?
Anthony Main (12:26):
I've always found it in two places. So one, I
never stepped out because Iwanted to run a business. It
just happened organically. Forme. Some of the proudest stuff
for me in business as having ateam and watching them and being
able to support their careers.
And one of the my mostsatisfying things is watching
some of our staff gettingmortgages, knowing that they
work for us, we're contributingto the next stages of their
life. The other side of it isthe business side. Luckily, in
(12:50):
our agency world, we service andsupport businesses in most types
of industry, everything else. SoI've been able to experience
business from windowmanufacturing, to lorry drivers
to markets, to you name it, I'vebeen there other coalfront seen
what's going on and tried tohelp them put mobile and digital
(13:12):
into those spaces. And that'swhat fascinates me, the
different types of business theway they work, everything. And
from every single one, I learnmore about how to run our
business, but also more abouthow we can then support
businesses in completely diversemarkets. So the sort of stuff we
do for big enterprise, we canuse in small startup, and the
(13:32):
cool innovative stuff that'shappening in startup, we can
help improve big enterprise. Soit is fascinating, and the
diversity is what's alwaysalways excited me in business.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (13:45):
We definitely see that happening.
Even on our Catapult course, fr example, within the communit
, are so diverse. You have peope from completely different wal
s of life in completely differet industries coming together a
d talking about ideas that they'e never faced, or, but you c
n find the connections and you cn find the similarities or the y
u know, pinch an idea from hee and an idea from there and ma
(14:07):
e it work for somebody els. That's definitely an exciti
g space to be within. Have yu found anything that helps y
u balance between your main roe in the agency and your n
w adventures and where you wanto g
Anthony Main (14:22):
Well, I think this sort of networking element that
we've we've been talking about,and the number of different
people that I see around megives me this passion to go and
do other stuff, see what otherbusinesses are doing and the
opportunities that people carvefor themselves in the startup
world and, and even in thegeneral enterprise world. And I
like that variety. And I likethat and that's what drives me.
(14:44):
I see the passion in people. Ijust want to work with as many
people and support them as I canI've always have. In the earlier
days of The Distance, our officewas on the university campus in
York and we ran boot campprogrammes for the students. It
became part of theirextracurricular scores, they
could run to go through our bootcamp, learn about app
development, and then pitch tous what their app ideas were in
(15:07):
order to win a prize. I lovesharing my knowledge, it's one
of the things that that doesdrive me in business. And, and I
want to find more ways that Ican share my, my 15 years of
developing apps and to make morepeople more successful.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (15:21):
Mmm. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely
something, especially having thekind of niche that you do, and
having the experience that goesalong with that niche, is so
hard to find. And often peoplewho have that experience are
tucked away in full time jobsand not able
Anthony Main (15:40):
That's it yeah,
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (15:41):
share their experience, or haven't taken
that jump yet to start changingthings up. On top of all of
these different roles that we'vebeen talking about, there is, of
course, real life. Not just allwork. Your wife is part of The
Distance, and you've justwelcomed your daughter into the
world, 12 weeks of madness. Howdo you create balance between
(16:04):
work and play and given not justthe fact that you know, you're
both involved in the company,lockdown, various different ways
that we have had to deal withthis year.. definitely come into
play because the boundaries areso blurred. So how do you keep
that balance between all of theall of the elements in your
life?
Anthony Main (16:23):
I think this is hold my hands up time and say
I'm not a person to ask. I amabsolutely terrible at this. So
it's more of a do as I say, notas I do answer to be honest. It
is really difficult. Running thebusiness together has been
fantastic. But it does add thosesort of challenges as you sort
of highlight there. What I'vealways been terrible at is being
(16:44):
able to disconnect one from theother. And we would often be
sitting in a bar, taking sometime out for ourselves and over
a glass of Cosmopolitan orsomething similar, we'll be
discussing what the next fewmonths of the business looks
like, which they would end upwith heated discussion, not
exactly what you want. Yeah, Imean, even now more, so now I
have a daughter, I'm having tomake sure I take that
(17:06):
commitment. So I am taking moretime, fixed out of the business
to make sure that I get thatbalance. Because even 12 years
in business, the hours I have toput in every every week is is
still more than most peoplewould commit to their full time
job. So no matter what businessyou run, you're always going to
find that and weeks will belong, and other weeks, you'll
(17:28):
have more flexibility, but youjust have to have a try. I say
have, try and have as muchseparation of those concerns as
possible. And try and segmenttime, make sure you've got the
time allocated in the rightamounts, because work life
balance and health and wellbeingand everything else is becoming
even more the headline storiesof the news all the time. And
(17:50):
I'm a very, very resilientperson with pretty leather skin.
But not everyone is. And youneed to make sure that that
balance is continuous,especially when we're talking
about the startups earlier, isyou've got to prepare for that.
Because you need the peoplearound you to appreciate what's
going to happen in the next fewmonths of their lives. And and
(18:11):
what that disconnect is going tobe like so they've got to think
that through carefully make sureas a team, they're properly
committed to it rather than anindividual.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (18:21):
Yeah, it's amazing how many news stories
there are about it, and howoften we can tell other people,
especially when we're runningbusinesses, you're probably
telling your staff to make surethat looking after themselves.
Anthony Main (18:31):
Yeah, we we have lots of very, very conscious
wellbeing and mental check-inprocesses that we have with our
team, which we're forcing peopleto take holiday when we think
they need it. We've moved to afour day working week, whilst
everybody's working remotelybecause they're finding four
days of solid coding or whateverit is they do in our in our
(18:51):
roles.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (18:52):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (18:53):
Is hard when they don't have the general office
banter in the water cooler chatand a break over lunchtime and
things like that, people dospend more time at the keyboard
and we try and force them to tohave more of a balance.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (19:09):
We've talked about lockdown, you know,
obviously it comes into a lot ofconversations at the moment. It
has affected our lives in somany different ways. As we've
discussed. I know networking isa big part of how you work. You
know, we've talked about thefact that without your network
that you created originally, youwouldn't have been able to do
the things that you did when youwhen you started out and stepped
(19:30):
out.
What advice would you give onmaking the most of networking in
this new remote normal?
Anthony Main (19:38):
I think it needs to be a much more conscious
thing for people to do. In thenormal times. I'd be bouncing
around London going from aclient meeting to another client
meeting and I'd have a few hourshere or there to spare so I'd
hit up one of my contacts andtreat meet for a coffee. If I
was down for the night. therewould always be events
(19:59):
happening. So I could findsomething to attend. Those
things don't happen anymore.
That spontaneity, the diversityof those encounters. You have to
find them. And networks likeyours and various other online
professional places. We need totake advantage of them.
I think what are the events thatI would normally be going to
(20:21):
where I would do networking? Ithink quite a lot of them are
missing out on actually having anetworking sessions at the end
of them.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (20:27):
Yeah,
Anthony Main (20:27):
So it's important, the event creaters help create
more networking opportunities,because the events become very
dry, you finish.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (20:37):
And move onto the next thing...Yeah,
Anthony Main (20:37):
And there's 100 people you could have chatted
to, if, if you're in an eventspace, or whatever it might have
been. So you, I think we do, weall have to take advantage of
it. Or we need to commit more tosocial media and put ourselves
out there at least even on acommon thread where we're
communicating, we're stilltalking to people, we're still
sharing our stories andeverything else. So I think
(20:58):
LinkedIn is an important placefor everybody right now, despite
what people might think aboutit, and how some people are
using it to share their familystories, that it's a space where
people are, and they want tocommunicate, they want to talk,
they want to engage in aconversation, because it's just
as important for them as it isfor you to share it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (21:14):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (21:14):
So we need to take full advantages of these online
platforms and make sure we doengage and not be scared to
share because everyone else isin the same boat right now. So
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (21:24):
Yeah, I find it very interesting that
there is this whole debate abouthow much we should be sharing on
a professional network. I mean,my question is always, how much
would you share in the office?
If you needed to talk tosomebody if you needed to reach
out your network and ask forhelp? Why shouldn't you be doing
it online as much as you wouldhave done in an office space?
Anthony Main (21:44):
Well, yeah, you don't really want to know how
much I share in the office,because it's always way too
much. I've got a baby grow withthe branding on for our
daughter. I'm trying to judgewhether that LinkedIn suitable
or not...
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (21:54):
Oh it is, 100% LinkedIn suitable, because
I want to see it!
Anthony Main (21:59):
Then I'll make sure you get tagged then, Lexi!
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:01):
Excellent! Boundaries can.... we've already
talked about it, boundaries areblurred at the moment. But I
think, you know, showingyourself as a human being in the
stories that you tell, whetherthat's on your website, or
whether that's on your blog, orwhether that's on your social
media, or the conversations youhave over the phone, or on a
zoom call is so important tokeep that human element because
(22:23):
that's what we buy into, right?
Anthony Main (22:25):
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And especially people that areselling themselves, they're
selling their own consultancies,their skills, their knowledge,
all that sort of stuff. Theyhave to be putting it out and
sharing their personal opinion.
And don't be scared of doing it.
In my opinion. That's whatpeople want to hear, the people
buying into, you want to see younot some nice, packaged up,
(22:45):
overly produced, whatever itmight be. I mean, you'll hear me
talking very straight, veryhonest. And I've always been
able to be like that, I wear my,my life on my sleeve, really.
And it's worked well for me.
It's worked well for me foryears, I'm always brutally
honest with customers, weweren't on board a customer if
we don't think their business isgoing to be a success. So get
(23:08):
stuff peer tested, if you're ina startup world, don't trust
your friends and family, theyare not enough of a litmus to
justify long term investment ina business. So better put on
social if it's not tooexclusive. Get it out there, you
get to get some real publicfeedback. Why not?
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (23:25):
Yeah, and that I mean, that works for
startups, and it works andportfolio careers in it. If
you're deciding to take thestep. You know, maybe you don't
want to do it as publiclybecause of you're still in a
role. But you know, you canstill market research, you can
still find out ideas. Yeah,
Anthony Main (23:40):
Yeah. I just say, your networks there, right. So
that person is about to stepout, will know, half a dozen
people that probably wouldconsider paying for that
services at some point in theirfuture. Give a message drop them
a WhatsApp, just to see whatthey think. I'm sure you'll get
some honest feedback, whatever,whether it's good or bad. It's
(24:01):
worth having. Absolutely.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (24:03):
This is a question that comes up a lot.
How do you define success rightnow? And how has that changed
over the years?
Anthony Main (24:13):
I've kind of covered some of that earlier
about people getting mortgages,that that's a big thing for me.
I've kind of had an informalunwritten mantra to what I want
in life and business. And Ithink this is what underpins
what drives me and everythingelse. And what I've always
wanted to do is create abusiness where everybody wants
to be or everyone wants to bepart of it. And nobody wants to
(24:34):
leave. Whether that becustomers, staff, suppliers, you
name it, I just want it to be agreat place which does what it
does. People enjoy doing it withus, whatever that relationship
looks like. And I just want tokeep doing that. I want
customers to walk away happy andI want them to write great
reviews about us because they'vehad a great experience with. We
(24:55):
aren't just a lock and shutcompany and we don't just
deliver onto a brief. And you'llget the relationship and the
advice and career experience ofall of our team. So it's going
back to those human journeys.
That's exactly what people arebuying. And people want that.
It's not about a box tickingexercise. So success is just, I
guess all those things, sharingthat knowledge growing everyone
(25:19):
else, not just ourselves. Andthey're the sort of things that
drive me that's what I find issuccess. To me. It's not just us
as a business, it's our clientsdoing well, our our client app
is getting downloaded ourclients making great headway
getting bought out, gettinginvestment, whatever it might
be, its its success comes fromall those things as much as it
(25:39):
does from the work we've donefor them.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:43):
Mmm, that's a really good way of putting it
and you can definitely see thatin how you are as a business
owner, but also, you know, whereyou're going with mentoring,
etc. At the heart of everythingyou're doing, is how it's gonna
affect other people. That'sdefinitely heartening to see.
Anthony Main (26:00):
It helps my vanity and my insecurities, my my own
personal validation in theworld, but your way was better.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:10):
Can you tell I'm in marketing? So with
entrepreneurial spirit thatcomes with creating startups or
going out on your own andstepping out and being a
portfolio professional, there'salso curiosity. And I think I'd
like to ask a curious and nosyquestion, If you could...
Anthony Main (26:29):
Mmmm, fascinated!
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:30):
If you could do anything career wise,
what would you do?
Anthony Main (26:34):
That's a good question. I always thought I
would be a good private eye.
Being a technical person, I havea problem solving nature. I'm
not necessarily nosy or nippy, Idon't think I necessarily would
be a good one.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:48):
Yeah,
Anthony Main (26:48):
But I would have loved to have done that
investigative problem solvingworld, and if not, I'd have
loved to be in some form ofpublic service like the
firefighters or a policemen, Ijust would love to be the saving
people. I just never knew I hadthe confidence to do it for
people to be honest, but I don'tknow, something along those
lines.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:04):
I love that!
Anthony Main (27:06):
I was born and bred into digital. And so in the
my path was carved from an earlyage, the passion was there. So I
never really had to questionwhere I was going in life. And
as is, I've got where I havecompletely organically without
much pressure, much decision. SoI feel quite lucky. Other people
pivot, chang,e flex, they'd haveto find themselves in their path
(27:28):
and everything else, whereasmine has been. It's just kind of
happened. And it's happened theway I guess my passion has
driven it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:35):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (27:36):
So I've always been slightly cautious. But I'll
gamble and I'll make the nextstep. And I'll see where that
takes me. If it doesn't work,I'll guess I'll pivot. But there
are little pivots. They don'thave to be like full 180s by any
means. It can be 10 degrees offhere. There are if we're, we've
had to do that as as an IT inthe app industry. We've only
been the Acme industries onlybeen around 1112 years. Yeah,
(27:58):
we've had to change so much inthat time. Because the industry
has changed. When we startedwith iOS, we moved to Android.
We had a quick go with WindowsPhone, because that existed for
a brief history by Microsoft.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (28:12):
Yeah, we did.
Anthony Main (28:14):
I had a great Windows Phone it was fantastic.
And now we're looking at webbeing back again, as the the
platform of choice. It iscontinually changing in the tech
world. And that's why I like it.
But to me, those things arelittle pivots. That's, I guess,
natural progression oftechnology. And we all have to
brace that in our careersnowadays. So yeah, miny pivots,
I guess is my top tip.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (28:37):
That is a very good tip. If you were to
start again, go back to thebeginning, is there anything
that you would have donedifferently?
Anthony Main (28:44):
I'd of probably planned ahead a little bit more,
before I stepped out. I steppedout on just one day purely on a
whim, because I got frustratedwith a previous MD, but I knew I
had confidence doing so itwasn't a blind leap of faith for
me, I was lucky. End of yearone, I hadn't accounted for
corporation tax because I neverknow it was the thing. So a
(29:07):
little bit of planning a littlebit of education, before you
make such wide wild decisions isprobably a good thing. And now I
have a good team around me Wehave great accountants, various
other things business advisorsthat we make very strategic
decisions. Some of them aregambles, but they are gambles
with as much confidence as wepossibly can get to beforehand
and the best thing is to thinkahead before you've made that
(29:31):
wild decision, and it will beit'll be feel a big step but it
will give you more confidence topush yourself harder, if you
know a bit more of the planrather than taking it on a whim.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:42):
Yeah, that is really good advice to end on.
Thank you so much for your timeand for the giggles I'm glad
that we've got a pre Christmasone where we can have lots of
giggles
Anthony Main (29:52):
We need flashing lights really in the background.
So is it time for some eggnognow? It's nearly five o'clock
somewhere.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:00):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for your timeAnthony, and I look forward to
seeing everything that's goingto come from The Distance and
from you.
Anthony Main (30:08):
Thank you. It's been a pleasure, Lexi and good
luck to everybody that's takingthis trip along a portfolio
career. It's a great opportunityand hopefully our paths will
cross.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:16):
Yes, brilliant. Thanks very much.
Welcome to the seventh episode of
PortfolioCast. Today we'respeaking with Anthony Main.
Having started his work with aportfolio career, before it was
even known as a portfoliocareer, Anthony has gone on to
create The Distance, anaward-winning App Agency, and is
now looking back to his earlierroots to carve out his next
chapter. Welcome, Anthony.
Anthony Main (00:28):
Hi, nice to see you.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (00:29):
Great to have you here. I'd love to start
right back at the beginningbefore you created The Distance.
As a developer and as I said,you had a portfolio career
before it was known as aportfolio career, as a
freelancer. How did you use yourfreelancing portfolio career to
your benefit?
Anthony Main (00:46):
I've never really thought about it like that.
There was a lot I learnedwithout realising it. So when I
had a full time job, I also hadlots of freelance work on the
side. So when I actually didstep out into the business world
of my own, with my business, Iactually already had a wealth of
portfolio and customers andeverything else. So my first
year, I earnt the same as I didin my full time job. And that
(01:08):
was only because I had alreadycreated this collection of
existing clients, and everythingelse. So without realising it, I
guess I did have a portfoliocareer.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (01:16):
And networks are really important to
how we all work. But even moreimportant, right now. Do you
still have people that you leanon from the past, or people that
you have been inspired by whenyou were first setting up, etc?
Anthony Main (01:31):
Yeah, when I stepped out, I relied heavily on
my network. So before I steppedout, I'd had six full time jobs
at various agencies aroundYorkshire. And if it wasn't for
those and the closerelationships I built in every
single one of those agencies,the startup business I had, and
the immediate clients I had, Iwouldn't have, I wouldn't have
(01:51):
got anywhere. I didn't know howto do sales, I didn't know how
to do marketing. And it wassimply I was inundated with
calls from my previouscolleagues and managers and
employers who needed me to carryon doing my skills because they
knew how good I was, at whateverI did, and it fit what they
needed. And that just became myclient base. And nowadays, I
(02:12):
have very different networking,my networking is now my peers,
various other business owners,and especially in this this
certain time that we are allgoing through, they're really,
really important. So I'm part ofa growth group on the back of a
course I did. We've known eachother now for the best part six
years. In the real world. We gottogether every three months, and
we've visited each other'soffices, and we know each
(02:32):
other's businesses intimatelynow. But we got together and
every week, we have a call everyThursday morning, just
supporting each other making,helping each other make some
really, really big decisionsthis year. It's been absolutely
invaluable.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (02:44):
That's fantastic to hear. You went on
to create The Distance,obviously. And this year, the
business was named App Agency of2020, which is amazing.
Congratulations.
Anthony Main (02:54):
Yeah, we've done, we've done well, awards-wise
this year. Really well.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (02:57):
Yeah, of course, like most startups, it
wasn't all plain sailing. And Iknow that everything's fantastic
now, but would you mind goingback a bit and talking about the
pivot that you had to make toget to where you are now?
Anthony Main (03:11):
Yeah, I guess those two things kind of came in
the other way round for us. Sowe have been through a
rollercoaster over the last 12years. At one point we have have
nearly closed. And I've beenquite open and spoken about that
in the past. But the first andthe most major pivot we did was
right at the start. So my skillswere originally as a web
developer, I stepped out as afreelance web developer. Within
(03:33):
probably nine months, I wasn'tdoing any web development. I
was, I'd use my technical skillsto embrace the mobile space. I
found it fascinating. I've beendoing web development for a long
period by that point. And Iwanted a new challenge. So I
ended up merging my businesswith someone else, he took on
the web book, and I focusedpurely on mobile. And that's
(03:53):
where I planted my flag. AndI've been flying it for the best
part of 15 years now dedicatedpurely on mobile development,
because the market justflourished. And I guess that's
one of the important things whenyou're running a business, you
have to look for thoseopportunities. I'm already
seeing what potentially needs tobe a minor pivot for us right
now, based upon some changes intechnology. And if Apple make a
(04:16):
decision quite soon, we're gonnahave to pivot a little bit,
quite quickly.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (04:20):
Yeah.
Understanding your market andunderstanding who your potential
client is going to be or yourclients are going to be, i's so
so so important, but also takingon, like you say, taking on new
challenges that you'repassionate about. And I'm
guessing that your passion hasled you throughout all of the
development of so many differentapps. And that changed from web
(04:40):
to mobile.
Anthony Main (04:43):
Yeah, I'm - my friends I used to live with when
I was slightly older used tocall me - a social geek. I was
blowing up computers at the ageof 13. And thanks to my mum and
dad's support for that passionof mine, but I found that my mum
and dad made me quite roundedindividual. And so I was able to
communicate and everything elsewith people, yet still talk
(05:05):
about technology and dumb itdown to a level that becomes a
conversation, whereas thetypical outlook of what a techie
was, was glasses with a plasterbetween them, only came out
between the hours of midnightand 4am and had long greasy
hair. So I kind of broke thatmould a little bit. And now
we're all technologists, right?
We have to be.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (05:24):
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there
definitely was those thosestereotypes that were very hard
to avoid. But well done forflying flag on that one too. A
lot of people, professionals,business owners, are going to be
facing the sort of strugglesthat you have done in the past.
(05:45):
And, you know, you've beenthrough, you know, 12 years
running, you've been through arecession, or you've come out
the other side of one recession.
And they may be looking withconcern to 2021. What advice
would you give to somebody whois where you were at, you know,
having to make those decisionsabout what to pivot or what to
change?
Anthony Main (06:05):
Everyone would love to have a crystal ball with
the answers in, but they don'texist. So the best that anyone
can do is think plan,strategise, try and predict
things. There is a book byRichard Branson. And the whole
topic of the book is basicallyhow he'd make big gambles, but
(06:28):
they weren't really gamblesbecause they're always
calculated. So he knew that hecould spend 2 million pounds,
taking a risk.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (06:34):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (06:35):
And it was a complete risk. And but he was,
he knew that he could throw awaythat 2 million pounds. So we
have to be in that sort ofmindset, we have to take the
risks, we have to be very waryof what we're doing. But there
is always going to be a bit of agamble. Just try and be as
calculated, plan ahead, makesure that you do have a buffer
or something to support thefallback plan, I guess, like
(06:58):
we're talking about here,portfolio careers - go for that.
If you've got fingers in lots ofdifferent pies, some may fail,
thers may succeed. And then youan quickly make your pivot
ecisions based upon the successtories and not the failures.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (07:11):
Yeah, we've actually just published an
article looking at startups, orhow rather, startups can be
created from portfolio careers.
What sort of advice would yougive to someone who has that
burning entrepreneurial spirit,and is looking for an outlet to
create a new startup,potentially?
Anthony Main (07:30):
Yeah, I mean, it drives a lot of us. And it is
very, very tempting becausepeople see the new stories of
these massive success stories,that people have had with these
these side hustles andeverything else. The problem is
the big news stories are thinand far between in terms of the
massive success. Any startup,well, all right, 99% of startups
(07:51):
need a lot of work, there is amassive commitment to get them
over that line from a great ideato something that is got
longevity, as we all know, moststartups fail within a few
years. And it's gutting to see.
So, any entrepreneur or anapptrepreneur, as I call those
that want to focus on the appspace, they need to be really,
really committed. And thatcommitment needs to be thought
(08:16):
through carefully because thetime commitment is one thing but
it then will look at affectingyour family life, you have to
have the support of other peoplearound you, willing to let you
have that. And as you sort ofsay, you need something else. If
you have plenty of cash and youcan go all in, then great. But a
portfolio career is the idealway for people to support that
(08:36):
ambition, that opportunity, butyou've got to then try and get
that time balance right. If youthen look for VC funding, for
example, they're going to wantyou 100% committed. So you've
got to think carefully aboutwhere my time commitment is and
are you going to be resilientand patient enough to wait to
get to that point of confidence.
That is a long term goal, ratherthan just a short lived dream.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:00):
Yeah, I mean, there is a difference
between starting up a startupand having a business that
recognises the different rolesyou have. So you can be self
employed, stick a company nameon it, you know, attach yourself
to different roles, etc. andstill have a portfolio career.
You don't necessarily have to godown the startup route. But
there's definitely theexcitement there with startups
(09:21):
isn't there?
Anthony Main (09:22):
Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
And there's a lot of support forthem. There is a huge amount of
businesses that are able tosupport you with a lot of free
advice, free content, everythingelse. Starting a business in
21st century is very, verydifferent to what it was before.
Even the local governments havelots and lots of provision for
new businesses. So theopportunities there for those
that have the confidence and thebit between the teeth and the
(09:46):
sheer strength to do it, to befair.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (09:49):
Yeah.
Bringing us up to the presentday. You're now embarking on a
new chapter of your own careerand you're developing yourself
as a mentor, a consultant,taking on board positions. How
are you approaching these newopportunities having run your
own business for a number ofyears?
Anthony Main (10:08):
Sure. So the two kind of very intermixed so our
clients come to us and many ofthem are the startups that we've
just been talking about. Andthey have great ideas. But their
background can be anything, theyaren't necessarily technically
astute, they won't necessarilyknow the right decision. So I've
always worn a bit of a hat intheir camp. And so in many
(10:29):
cases, I've acted as an interimCTO, or digital director, or
whatever the title might havebeen, to help them with that,
that vision from the technicalaspect. That's what our whole
business is able to provide. Asthe business continues to
develop, and the startups westart to support, start to grow.
(10:50):
I am often asked to take a moreformal position in that sort of
space and help with a morepermanent role. And I do see
that some time in my future,it's not immediately. But as our
business continues to grow anddevelop, I will be able to have
a more formal commitment to someof our clients and give them
that more permanent fixture.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:10):
Will you be looking outside of your client
base for new opportunities? Orare you keeping it close to
home? Close to what you know?
Anthony Main (11:20):
So very good question. We've started to
structure our proposals invarious different ways. So we
can now offer parts of ourservice rather than necessarily
the full app developmentlifecycle.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (11:32):
Yep.
Anthony Main (11:32):
One of the most important parts is that
discovery element at the start,where we help work with
businesses just to define,structure and explicitly capture
the requirements for thatclient. And that's then used to
go on to development or go for afunding round, put it out for
crowdfunding. And we're doing alot more of that initial piece
(11:52):
of work, which is what someonein my sort of position can help
a business do. Find that idea,justify it, do the due diligence
about the technical side of it,before they start to make that
big investment. We will end updoing a lot more of that for a
much wider number of customersthan those that do go through a
full development lifecycle withus.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (12:11):
Where do you find the most interest? Is
it still in app development? Oris it in that initial phases? Or
is it helping and mentoringpeople with fantastic ideas, but
need that support?
Anthony Main (12:26):
I've always found it in two places. So one, I
never stepped out because Iwanted to run a business. It
just happened organically. Forme. Some of the proudest stuff
for me in business as having ateam and watching them and being
able to support their careers.
And one of the my mostsatisfying things is watching
some of our staff gettingmortgages, knowing that they
work for us, we're contributingto the next stages of their
life. The other side of it isthe business side. Luckily, in
(12:50):
our agency world, we service andsupport businesses in most types
of industry, everything else. SoI've been able to experience
business from windowmanufacturing, to lorry drivers
to markets, to you name it, I'vebeen there other coalfront seen
what's going on and tried tohelp them put mobile and digital
(13:12):
into those spaces. And that'swhat fascinates me, the
different types of business theway they work, everything. And
from every single one, I learnmore about how to run our
business, but also more abouthow we can then support
businesses in completely diversemarkets. So the sort of stuff we
do for big enterprise, we canuse in small startup, and the
(13:32):
cool innovative stuff that'shappening in startup, we can
help improve big enterprise. Soit is fascinating, and the
diversity is what's alwaysalways excited me in business.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (13:45):
We definitely see that happening.
Even on our Catapult course, fr example, within the communit
, are so diverse. You have peope from completely different wal
s of life in completely differet industries coming together a
d talking about ideas that they'e never faced, or, but you c
n find the connections and you cn find the similarities or the y
u know, pinch an idea from hee and an idea from there and ma
(14:07):
e it work for somebody els. That's definitely an exciti
g space to be within. Have yu found anything that helps y
u balance between your main roe in the agency and your n
w adventures and where you wanto g
Anthony Main (14:22):
Well, I think this sort of networking element that
we've we've been talking about,and the number of different
people that I see around megives me this passion to go and
do other stuff, see what otherbusinesses are doing and the
opportunities that people carvefor themselves in the startup
world and, and even in thegeneral enterprise world. And I
like that variety. And I likethat and that's what drives me.
(14:44):
I see the passion in people. Ijust want to work with as many
people and support them as I canI've always have. In the earlier
days of The Distance, our officewas on the university campus in
York and we ran boot campprogrammes for the students. It
became part of theirextracurricular scores, they
could run to go through our bootcamp, learn about app
development, and then pitch tous what their app ideas were in
(15:07):
order to win a prize. I lovesharing my knowledge, it's one
of the things that that doesdrive me in business. And, and I
want to find more ways that Ican share my, my 15 years of
developing apps and to make morepeople more successful.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (15:21):
Mmm. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely
something, especially having thekind of niche that you do, and
having the experience that goesalong with that niche, is so
hard to find. And often peoplewho have that experience are
tucked away in full time jobsand not able
Anthony Main (15:40):
That's it yeah,
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (15:41):
share their experience, or haven't taken
that jump yet to start changingthings up. On top of all of
these different roles that we'vebeen talking about, there is, of
course, real life. Not just allwork. Your wife is part of The
Distance, and you've justwelcomed your daughter into the
world, 12 weeks of madness. Howdo you create balance between
(16:04):
work and play and given not justthe fact that you know, you're
both involved in the company,lockdown, various different ways
that we have had to deal withthis year.. definitely come into
play because the boundaries areso blurred. So how do you keep
that balance between all of theall of the elements in your
life?
Anthony Main (16:23):
I think this is hold my hands up time and say
I'm not a person to ask. I amabsolutely terrible at this. So
it's more of a do as I say, notas I do answer to be honest. It
is really difficult. Running thebusiness together has been
fantastic. But it does add thosesort of challenges as you sort
of highlight there. What I'vealways been terrible at is being
(16:44):
able to disconnect one from theother. And we would often be
sitting in a bar, taking sometime out for ourselves and over
a glass of Cosmopolitan orsomething similar, we'll be
discussing what the next fewmonths of the business looks
like, which they would end upwith heated discussion, not
exactly what you want. Yeah, Imean, even now more, so now I
have a daughter, I'm having tomake sure I take that
(17:06):
commitment. So I am taking moretime, fixed out of the business
to make sure that I get thatbalance. Because even 12 years
in business, the hours I have toput in every every week is is
still more than most peoplewould commit to their full time
job. So no matter what businessyou run, you're always going to
find that and weeks will belong, and other weeks, you'll
(17:28):
have more flexibility, but youjust have to have a try. I say
have, try and have as muchseparation of those concerns as
possible. And try and segmenttime, make sure you've got the
time allocated in the rightamounts, because work life
balance and health and wellbeingand everything else is becoming
even more the headline storiesof the news all the time. And
(17:50):
I'm a very, very resilientperson with pretty leather skin.
But not everyone is. And youneed to make sure that that
balance is continuous,especially when we're talking
about the startups earlier, isyou've got to prepare for that.
Because you need the peoplearound you to appreciate what's
going to happen in the next fewmonths of their lives. And and
(18:11):
what that disconnect is going tobe like so they've got to think
that through carefully make sureas a team, they're properly
committed to it rather than anindividual.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (18:21):
Yeah, it's amazing how many news stories
there are about it, and howoften we can tell other people,
especially when we're runningbusinesses, you're probably
telling your staff to make surethat looking after themselves.
Anthony Main (18:31):
Yeah, we we have lots of very, very conscious
wellbeing and mental check-inprocesses that we have with our
team, which we're forcing peopleto take holiday when we think
they need it. We've moved to afour day working week, whilst
everybody's working remotelybecause they're finding four
days of solid coding or whateverit is they do in our in our
(18:51):
roles.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (18:52):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (18:53):
Is hard when they don't have the general office
banter in the water cooler chatand a break over lunchtime and
things like that, people dospend more time at the keyboard
and we try and force them to tohave more of a balance.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (19:09):
We've talked about lockdown, you know,
obviously it comes into a lot ofconversations at the moment. It
has affected our lives in somany different ways. As we've
discussed. I know networking isa big part of how you work. You
know, we've talked about thefact that without your network
that you created originally, youwouldn't have been able to do
the things that you did when youwhen you started out and stepped
(19:30):
out.
What advice would you give onmaking the most of networking in
this new remote normal?
Anthony Main (19:38):
I think it needs to be a much more conscious
thing for people to do. In thenormal times. I'd be bouncing
around London going from aclient meeting to another client
meeting and I'd have a few hourshere or there to spare so I'd
hit up one of my contacts andtreat meet for a coffee. If I
was down for the night. therewould always be events
(19:59):
happening. So I could findsomething to attend. Those
things don't happen anymore.
That spontaneity, the diversityof those encounters. You have to
find them. And networks likeyours and various other online
professional places. We need totake advantage of them.
I think what are the events thatI would normally be going to
(20:21):
where I would do networking? Ithink quite a lot of them are
missing out on actually having anetworking sessions at the end
of them.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (20:27):
Yeah,
Anthony Main (20:27):
So it's important, the event creaters help create
more networking opportunities,because the events become very
dry, you finish.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (20:37):
And move onto the next thing...Yeah,
Anthony Main (20:37):
And there's 100 people you could have chatted
to, if, if you're in an eventspace, or whatever it might have
been. So you, I think we do, weall have to take advantage of
it. Or we need to commit more tosocial media and put ourselves
out there at least even on acommon thread where we're
communicating, we're stilltalking to people, we're still
sharing our stories andeverything else. So I think
(20:58):
LinkedIn is an important placefor everybody right now, despite
what people might think aboutit, and how some people are
using it to share their familystories, that it's a space where
people are, and they want tocommunicate, they want to talk,
they want to engage in aconversation, because it's just
as important for them as it isfor you to share it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (21:14):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (21:14):
So we need to take full advantages of these online
platforms and make sure we doengage and not be scared to
share because everyone else isin the same boat right now. So
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (21:24):
Yeah, I find it very interesting that
there is this whole debate abouthow much we should be sharing on
a professional network. I mean,my question is always, how much
would you share in the office?
If you needed to talk tosomebody if you needed to reach
out your network and ask forhelp? Why shouldn't you be doing
it online as much as you wouldhave done in an office space?
Anthony Main (21:44):
Well, yeah, you don't really want to know how
much I share in the office,because it's always way too
much. I've got a baby grow withthe branding on for our
daughter. I'm trying to judgewhether that LinkedIn suitable
or not...
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (21:54):
Oh it is, 100% LinkedIn suitable, because
I want to see it!
Anthony Main (21:59):
Then I'll make sure you get tagged then, Lexi!
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (22:01):
Excellent! Boundaries can.... we've already
talked about it, boundaries areblurred at the moment. But I
think, you know, showingyourself as a human being in the
stories that you tell, whetherthat's on your website, or
whether that's on your blog, orwhether that's on your social
media, or the conversations youhave over the phone, or on a
zoom call is so important tokeep that human element because
(22:23):
that's what we buy into, right?
Anthony Main (22:25):
Yeah, yeah, 100%.
And especially people that areselling themselves, they're
selling their own consultancies,their skills, their knowledge,
all that sort of stuff. Theyhave to be putting it out and
sharing their personal opinion.
And don't be scared of doing it.
In my opinion. That's whatpeople want to hear, the people
buying into, you want to see younot some nice, packaged up,
(22:45):
overly produced, whatever itmight be. I mean, you'll hear me
talking very straight, veryhonest. And I've always been
able to be like that, I wear my,my life on my sleeve, really.
And it's worked well for me.
It's worked well for me foryears, I'm always brutally
honest with customers, weweren't on board a customer if
we don't think their business isgoing to be a success. So get
(23:08):
stuff peer tested, if you're ina startup world, don't trust
your friends and family, theyare not enough of a litmus to
justify long term investment ina business. So better put on
social if it's not tooexclusive. Get it out there, you
get to get some real publicfeedback. Why not?
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (23:25):
Yeah, and that I mean, that works for
startups, and it works andportfolio careers in it. If
you're deciding to take thestep. You know, maybe you don't
want to do it as publiclybecause of you're still in a
role. But you know, you canstill market research, you can
still find out ideas. Yeah,
Anthony Main (23:40):
Yeah. I just say, your networks there, right. So
that person is about to stepout, will know, half a dozen
people that probably wouldconsider paying for that
services at some point in theirfuture. Give a message drop them
a WhatsApp, just to see whatthey think. I'm sure you'll get
some honest feedback, whatever,whether it's good or bad. It's
(24:01):
worth having. Absolutely.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (24:03):
This is a question that comes up a lot.
How do you define success rightnow? And how has that changed
over the years?
Anthony Main (24:13):
I've kind of covered some of that earlier
about people getting mortgages,that that's a big thing for me.
I've kind of had an informalunwritten mantra to what I want
in life and business. And Ithink this is what underpins
what drives me and everythingelse. And what I've always
wanted to do is create abusiness where everybody wants
to be or everyone wants to bepart of it. And nobody wants to
(24:34):
leave. Whether that becustomers, staff, suppliers, you
name it, I just want it to be agreat place which does what it
does. People enjoy doing it withus, whatever that relationship
looks like. And I just want tokeep doing that. I want
customers to walk away happy andI want them to write great
reviews about us because they'vehad a great experience with. We
(24:55):
aren't just a lock and shutcompany and we don't just
deliver onto a brief. And you'llget the relationship and the
advice and career experience ofall of our team. So it's going
back to those human journeys.
That's exactly what people arebuying. And people want that.
It's not about a box tickingexercise. So success is just, I
guess all those things, sharingthat knowledge growing everyone
(25:19):
else, not just ourselves. Andthey're the sort of things that
drive me that's what I find issuccess. To me. It's not just us
as a business, it's our clientsdoing well, our our client app
is getting downloaded ourclients making great headway
getting bought out, gettinginvestment, whatever it might
be, its its success comes fromall those things as much as it
(25:39):
does from the work we've donefor them.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (25:43):
Mmm, that's a really good way of putting it
and you can definitely see thatin how you are as a business
owner, but also, you know, whereyou're going with mentoring,
etc. At the heart of everythingyou're doing, is how it's gonna
affect other people. That'sdefinitely heartening to see.
Anthony Main (26:00):
It helps my vanity and my insecurities, my my own
personal validation in theworld, but your way was better.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:10):
Can you tell I'm in marketing? So with
entrepreneurial spirit thatcomes with creating startups or
going out on your own andstepping out and being a
portfolio professional, there'salso curiosity. And I think I'd
like to ask a curious and nosyquestion, If you could...
Anthony Main (26:29):
Mmmm, fascinated!
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:30):
If you could do anything career wise,
what would you do?
Anthony Main (26:34):
That's a good question. I always thought I
would be a good private eye.
Being a technical person, I havea problem solving nature. I'm
not necessarily nosy or nippy, Idon't think I necessarily would
be a good one.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (26:48):
Yeah,
Anthony Main (26:48):
But I would have loved to have done that
investigative problem solvingworld, and if not, I'd have
loved to be in some form ofpublic service like the
firefighters or a policemen, Ijust would love to be the saving
people. I just never knew I hadthe confidence to do it for
people to be honest, but I don'tknow, something along those
lines.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:04):
I love that!
Anthony Main (27:06):
I was born and bred into digital. And so in the
my path was carved from an earlyage, the passion was there. So I
never really had to questionwhere I was going in life. And
as is, I've got where I havecompletely organically without
much pressure, much decision. SoI feel quite lucky. Other people
pivot, chang,e flex, they'd haveto find themselves in their path
(27:28):
and everything else, whereasmine has been. It's just kind of
happened. And it's happened theway I guess my passion has
driven it.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (27:35):
Yeah.
Anthony Main (27:36):
So I've always been slightly cautious. But I'll
gamble and I'll make the nextstep. And I'll see where that
takes me. If it doesn't work,I'll guess I'll pivot. But there
are little pivots. They don'thave to be like full 180s by any
means. It can be 10 degrees offhere. There are if we're, we've
had to do that as as an IT inthe app industry. We've only
been the Acme industries onlybeen around 1112 years. Yeah,
(27:58):
we've had to change so much inthat time. Because the industry
has changed. When we startedwith iOS, we moved to Android.
We had a quick go with WindowsPhone, because that existed for
a brief history by Microsoft.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (28:12):
Yeah, we did.
Anthony Main (28:14):
I had a great Windows Phone it was fantastic.
And now we're looking at webbeing back again, as the the
platform of choice. It iscontinually changing in the tech
world. And that's why I like it.
But to me, those things arelittle pivots. That's, I guess,
natural progression oftechnology. And we all have to
brace that in our careersnowadays. So yeah, miny pivots,
I guess is my top tip.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (28:37):
That is a very good tip. If you were to
start again, go back to thebeginning, is there anything
that you would have donedifferently?
Anthony Main (28:44):
I'd of probably planned ahead a little bit more,
before I stepped out. I steppedout on just one day purely on a
whim, because I got frustratedwith a previous MD, but I knew I
had confidence doing so itwasn't a blind leap of faith for
me, I was lucky. End of yearone, I hadn't accounted for
corporation tax because I neverknow it was the thing. So a
(29:07):
little bit of planning a littlebit of education, before you
make such wide wild decisions isprobably a good thing. And now I
have a good team around me Wehave great accountants, various
other things business advisorsthat we make very strategic
decisions. Some of them aregambles, but they are gambles
with as much confidence as wepossibly can get to beforehand
and the best thing is to thinkahead before you've made that
(29:31):
wild decision, and it will beit'll be feel a big step but it
will give you more confidence topush yourself harder, if you
know a bit more of the planrather than taking it on a whim.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (29:42):
Yeah, that is really good advice to end on.
Thank you so much for your timeand for the giggles I'm glad
that we've got a pre Christmasone where we can have lots of
giggles
Anthony Main (29:52):
We need flashing lights really in the background.
So is it time for some eggnognow? It's nearly five o'clock
somewhere.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:00):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for your timeAnthony, and I look forward to
seeing everything that's goingto come from The Distance and
from you.
Anthony Main (30:08):
Thank you. It's been a pleasure, Lexi and good
luck to everybody that's takingthis trip along a portfolio
career. It's a great opportunityand hopefully our paths will
cross.
Lexi Radcliffe-Hart (30:16):
Yes, brilliant. Thanks very much.
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