August 27, 2024 • 59 mins
Beyond the Stigma: Choosing the Right Therapist with Bernadette Kerr
In This Episode:
- Meet Bernadette Kerr: Kenyan-born licensed therapist, author, and certified ADHD coach with extensive experience in restorative justice, mindfulness, faith, spirituality, and mental health.
- Addressing Mental Health Stigma: Bernadette dives into the stigma surrounding mental health, particularly within the church and Christian communities, and offers ways to overcome it.
- Choosing a Christian Therapist: Learn how to discern whether a therapist truly aligns with Christian beliefs and the importance of asking the right questions.
- The Therapeutic Process: Gain insights into how understanding your own patterns, building trust, and being open to learning can enhance your therapeutic journey.
- Therapy as Sabbath: Explore the concept of therapy as a form of Sabbath, offering rest, validation, and aligning with God’s voice over others’ opinions.
- Contact Bernadette: Website - https://www.kisimabybernie.com and Instagram https://www.instagram.com/kisimabybernie
- Bernadette’s Book: Discover more of Bernadette’s wisdom in her book. Check it out here.
Join the Conversation:
- Have questions for Bernie about mental health, therapy, or hiring a therapist? Email us at admin@positionednetwork.com. We’d love to hear from you!
- Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast, share this episode with your friends, and leave a review!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
All right, welcome to the Positioned Podcast, where
we position you for success inlife, love and business.
I am your host, kimberly Knight, and I am joined by licensed
therapist Bernadette Kerr, whois here to talk about how to
choose a mental health provider.
So I just want to read a littlebit of her accolades, because
(00:23):
they are many.
She is well-qualified to helpus today and I can't wait.
Bernie is a Kenyon-bornlicensed therapist and author.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthe book.
She works with adults andengages through therapeutic work
, conferences, wellness events,masterclasses, webinars,
workshops.
You name it events,masterclasses, webinars,
(00:48):
workshops, you name it, she'sthere.
She's also a certified ADHDcoach.
She also holds additionalcertifications in restorative
justice, mindfulness, faith,spirituality and mental health,
which we're going to talk abouttoday suicide prevention and
crisis management, compassion,fatigue, anxiety, depression,
passion fatigue, anxiety,depression, racial trauma and
PTSD.
I tell you, I can't wait tohear what she has to share with
(01:10):
us.
Welcome, bernie.
Thank you, thank you, it is sogood to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I've loved talking about this topic because we love
having you.
Anyone who's listened to mypodcast knows that I believe in
Jesus, hallelujah.
I believe in prayer and thepower of prayer.
I know deliverance works andtherapy right, and they all have
different roles in our lives,and I would love to hear your
(01:40):
mindset on these things.
And also, how do we find atherapist, because finding one
can be daunting.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, okay.
So I love this question so muchbecause something happens when
it comes to finding a therapistthat we kind of disconnect from
the reality of.
We're always trusting differentforms of systems and people,
but we don't ask them abouttheir faith.
From when you are inkindergarten, you didn't ask
(02:08):
your daycare worker if they werea believer.
You didn't ask the school ifthey were a believer.
When you had to go get yourvaccines and your monthly
checkups, annual checkups, youdidn't ask them if they were a
believer.
When you went to college, youdidn't ask all your professors
if they were a believer.
But what did you do?
You trusted the institution togive you the service that you
went in for, right.
That doesn't change whetherit's a believer who teaches it
(02:29):
or doesn't.
There is a way that they canteach it right, like with the
fruit of the spirit.
But the content one plus one istwo, no matter who teaches it
right, whether it's a parent athome, homeschooling, a teacher
at school, college level oneplus one equals two always, and
so, when it comes to finding atherapist, I am a believer and I
(02:53):
understand the value of talkingto a believer.
And I also know about systemicoppression and how it affects
people's access to resourcessystemic oppression and how it
affects people's access toresources.
I understand that differentschools of therapy.
They actually don't believe inthe therapist sharing about
themselves because they feellike it can affect the clinical
(03:15):
space that it takes away fromthe client, and so that can be a
hindrance for certain people.
But for certain people itdoesn't have to be, because,
again, when we are trained tounderstand how to help you see
patterns patterns of health orpatterns that are unhealthy,
patterns that are congruent withyour beliefs, your morals, your
(03:36):
values, or incongruentbehaviors that are in sync with
what you believe or are not.
Somebody who has the lens of aclinician, regardless of their
belief system, can actually getyou there.
Now we're going to get intothis when we're talking about a
different part around.
Is it necessary to have aChristian therapist?
(03:57):
I think it is very helpful toalso know when we are going in
that whatever issue we're tryingto work out in therapy, it's
actually going to show up withyour clinician.
When we say what happens in theclinical space.
We want to take it outside.
But what's happening outside inyour life, you bring it into
(04:17):
the clinical space.
So if you're distrusting,regardless of the clinician that
you have, a level of distressis going to show up in the room.
And so, as a clinician, I knowthat, even as a believer working
with other believers, they canfind a reason to say why therapy
won't work, because theirpatterns and dynamics of
dysfunction will show up with us.
(04:38):
But the goal is that we learnhow to practice in the clinical
room, how to operate outside ina different way that nourishes
you, that aligns with God's word, that aligns with the freedom
and the liberty that he died onthe cross to give to us.
And whether I'm a believer andmy client is a believer or not,
(04:59):
if they have an experience oftrauma, if they have experiences
of assault and violence, ifthey grew up in families where
there was a lot of disparagingbeliefs or narratives, even in
their work with me theyautomatically hold me as the
figure that hurt them, and itmight take time for them to
actually trust the therapeuticprocess, and so one when you are
(05:22):
getting ready to find atherapist like really be clear
on.
What is it that I would likethem to help me with and what am
I open to learning that Iactually didn't even know was an
issue?
All right, one of our goals isto also bring up blind spots.
As somebody who's having anobjective experience of you, I
can see things from a vantagepoint you don't see, and are you
(05:45):
willing to hear?
You don't have to believe, youdon't have to agree.
Are you willing to hear andexplore?
And so, just coming in with alevel of curiosity of there's
some stuff that I am an experton my life.
Nobody has lived my life and soI'm coming to tell my therapist
about expertise of my life, butI also trust that they have an
expertise of training thatallows them to see the
(06:06):
experiences in my life from acertain vantage point, and I'm
willing to hear and I'm willingto let them come and walk
alongside me, because, if you're, one of the best things that I
learned in my training is, myjob is to not come to tell you
how to live your life.
My job is to walk alongside youin the ways you let me.
So if somebody doesn't let meinto a certain area, I'm not
(06:29):
going to barge my way in becausethat could be traumatizing.
It violates consent, itviolates trust, it shifts the
power dynamic.
I start to take control oversomebody else's life, and that's
not what I came for.
So if you don't let me into aparticular area, I can name it
and I'm also going to walkalongside where you let me, and
so just helping peopleunderstand that, like really do
(06:51):
the introspective work of thisis what I'm coming in for right
now.
As far as I understand it and Iknow that this person that I'm
going to be working with canhelp me understand it
differently and we're incollaboration with each other,
so I'm not coming to tell them,like, why aren't you making
therapy work for me?
Because we're working togetherbut I'm also not so controlling
(07:14):
of the conversation that I'mtrying to be my own therapist,
but I hired a therapist to helpme.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
It does, it does.
So I'm hearing you say thatunderstanding the therapeutic
process right, whatever themodality, is very important, so
that, going in, we're at us whatto do, but to point out some
blind spots and some patternsthat may need to be looked at to
(07:40):
make the adjustments to getwhere we want to go.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, and then now we collaborate and like what is
going to be the treatment goal,right?
So once we've kind of startedthat kind of introductory
conversation and getting alittle bit of background, then
we want to pinpoint, like whatis what is going to be the goal
of therapy, and goals evolve,right.
So we check in every so oftenand so that's kind of the
therapeutic process part ofthings for preparation.
(08:17):
The logistical and liketactical part of things I would
say you know, please know.
If you have insurance coverageor you're going to be paying out
of pocket, recognize whatlimitations might be in your
budget, right.
So for folks who don't haveinsurance, we operate on
something called a sliding scale.
A lot of training institutessometimes are free just because
they want their clinicians tohave folks to work with and they
(08:39):
get supervision, and so that'sa really great outlet for folks
who financially are strapped andmight not have insurance
coverage.
If you do have insurancecoverage, just know what your
co-pays or co-insurancesdeductibles are a deductible of
(09:07):
$3,500 before they start to pay.
And so knowing these thingshelps you to really know.
Okay, am I going in asking forsliding scale upfront?
Am I going in knowing that I'mgoing to have to invest heavily
in the beginning, but after thatfor the rest of the year my
co-pays are going to be $0,right, and that way you can also
kind of budget and have anexpectation of even frequency.
Right, because I have folks whoI see weekly because they can
(09:31):
manage that.
I have folks who I see twice amonth, folks I see once a month
because that's what theirbudgets and their resources,
their current state canfacilitate.
And so the logistical end, Iwould say checking with
insurance.
You know we're in a time of like, um, telehealth, uh, thankfully
, which is helping folks reallyum attend their appointments
(09:52):
without issue.
Because before, right, run intotrain delays, run into traffic
on your way, your session's gone.
But now you can kind of log inanywhere but always know that
you need to have a privateconfidential space.
Like I actually cannot have asession if you need to have a
private confidential space.
Like I actually cannot have asession if you don't have a
private confidential space, themoment a distraction or extra
(10:13):
person is in the room, itchanges the dynamic of what we
can, we can create that day.
And so you know logistically,like know where you're going to
be If you have to be in a car,cause I get it fine, but are you
alone in the car?
You cannot be in a car becauseI get it fine, but are you alone
in the car?
You cannot be in a taxi or atthe beach.
These are experiences I've hadat the beach, in the beach tent,
with their girlfriend.
I'm like we cannot meet and soyou know things like that.
(10:38):
Um, and then have a notebook andpen and paper wow when you go
class you show up with thosethings just to learn a subject.
How much more when you come tolearn about your life and so
really coming ready to learnright, part of the curiosity
it's I'm going to learnsomething.
Today we have an hour to kindof process like multiple themes
(11:00):
and I need to meditate on thesethings.
I need to reflect on thesethings, gather evidence of these
things.
I need to reflect on thesethings, gather evidence of these
things, and this is notnecessarily always possible for
folks, but I would encouragethat.
Do life in community, becauseeven part of those themes and
those blind spots, when you goto someone and be like my
therapist said that I jumped toconclusions and your friends be
(11:21):
like we've been telling youconclusions, we could see, you
know they can help you gatherthe evidence.
Or they can say, hmm, I neverthought of you in this way but
I'm wondering what you said thatmade the therapist maybe here.
Or I wonder how I see you rightas your friend.
I see you in a particular lightand so I might not see those
(11:42):
things.
But we can go.
We can go in like investigation, discovery together.
You know, like as a therapist,I have a therapist and my best
friend is a therapist and I'llbe like best friend.
She said xyz, and she was like Idon't see that about you, you
know.
I, I told her, I was like, yeah, she was like, you know, like,
um, there's a little bit ofpride when you think about this
(12:03):
era.
And I was like me, prideful,you know, and she was like I
don't think of you as prideful.
And then we, we like broke downwhat?
What is the definition of pride?
Puffed up in an area, thinkingyou are beyond reproach in an
area, right, because I'm anexpert now, I'm a therapeutic
expert, I can't be corrected,right and so.
(12:24):
And then so, when we both kindof broke it down, I was like,
all right, the behavior notnecessarily my character as a
person, but my behavior in thisparticular area was puffed up
and so, like, now I canunderstand what humility might
look like, and so, part of alsobeing in community, um, because
even the bible talks about um,in the, in the, in the, in the
(12:45):
presence of multiple kind ofwise counsel, there's safety
right.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So, one.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
therapist is a person of wise counsel, and the people
God has allowed us to do lifewith can also be wise counsel.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So good.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Even in therapy we're talking about how to pick a
loss counsel better, Right,Because sometimes we give people
access and proximity to us whoare not lost, who are not
healthy and hopeful towards ourdestiny.
And so, yeah, from like thetherapeutic piece, definitely
recommend the curiosity, comingready to learn that certain
things about yourself that youmight not be ready to intend to
give expertise about your life,your experiences and being
(13:24):
honest there.
And then logistically you know,a private, confidential space
to know about your insurancecoverage and how you're going to
be covering for services or ifyou're looking for a no fee or
no fee service.
And then pen and paper ready tolearn and then find community
to kind of process with, if youcan.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Oh, I am loving these starter tips, oh my gosh.
And the passion that you havefor this area is is evident.
And you brought up so many ofthe things that I would bring up
when I'm working in my singlesgroups, right?
Or my coaching groups, right,doing don't.
Don't do this alone, right, youhave to have community.
You must have community, andfather created us that way,
(14:05):
right To, to desire to be incommunity and have that need to
have people speak into our lives.
And I always say you needsomebody who knows you and
somebody who knows you.
So somebody who K-N-O-W-U so.
I see that in you, but let'swork that through.
Oh yeah, I guess we did seethat, right, so that's somebody
(14:26):
who knows you.
That cracks me up.
And then somebody who knows you, n-o-u right, who can say, no,
don't do that.
No, he's not the one you know.
So, doing life in communitywhere people can check you iron
sharpens iron, right?
I also love when you talk aboutbeing intentional about the
process.
I've never, ever, ever thoughtto bring a notebook Like I don't
(14:47):
know why not.
I am an avid note taker butnever thought of that.
Oh my gosh, that was such agood tip.
So you gave us everything from.
You know what to expectfrequency, you talked about.
You know how to make it reallywork and make it even more
impactful.
You know, by bringing it toyour trusted community.
(15:09):
What about the questions to askin selecting right, because I
know that for some people,finding one and narrowing it
down and seeing someone that youcan therapeutically align with
is not that easy.
So what kind of suggestions doyou have for us about that?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah.
So I always encourage likehaving.
So let me start.
If you've never been in therapybefore, we can talk about like
one set of questions.
If you've been in therapybefore because you have a little
bit of experience, then I'dalso encourage like pulling off
of experience.
Then I'd also encourage likepulling off of experience.
But, in general, I say, like,just ask the clinician about
themselves how long they've beendoing this, for if they do
(15:52):
subscribe to a particular styleor modality.
So modality means like atherapeutic philosophy of sorts,
right?
So when I talk about likesomebody who's trauma informed,
let's say somebody who's trainedin CBT, which is cognitive
behavioral therapy, right,there's a particular vantage
point that they use fortreatment of.
You know, our thoughts affectour emotions, affect our
(16:13):
behavior.
So they're always looking forthought, emotional, behavior
sequences.
And then there's like, let'ssay, dbt, which is dialectical
behavioral therapy, and we'realways looking for how opposite
truths are coexisting or wherethey create tension and how to
create area, right.
And then there's likepsychodynamic, we're looking for
like how, um, themes andexperiences from our early, like
(16:34):
childhood life are stillplaying out in our adult lives
and are showing up in multipledifferent spaces in the same way
, psychoanalytical, how they areconscious and it can guide,
guide our consciousdecision-making and behavior.
And so they're digging a lotfor the unconscious, right?
So when you ask a therapist andyou don't have to know what
(16:54):
that means, right, you're justasking do you subscribe to a
particular style of therapy?
Can you tell me more?
How has it shown up withsomebody who's going to be
coming to you for XYZ that I'mcoming to you with.
So, let's say, anxiety, I'mcoming to you to work with you
on anxiety.
So how do you use psychodynamictherapy to treat anxiety?
And then the therapist canexplain a little bit and you
(17:16):
know whatever else that youmight want to know about.
Do you accept insurance and allthese different things?
And then another question isaround faith and all these
different things.
And then another question isaround faith.
So in all my profiles online inmy website, it is clearly stated
that I am trained aroundintegrating spirituality into my
social work practice, into mytherapy practice, and I also
(17:37):
share that I'm a believer.
There are different platformsthat I'm already a part of that
automatically tell you that I'ma believer and I also say for
folks who would like tointegrate this we believer.
And I also say for folks whowould like to integrate this, we
can.
Because I also work with a lotof non-believers and so if
somebody has an explicitlyshared this from their website,
or if you called your insurancefor referrals and they didn't
(17:58):
tell you these things about thetherapist you're reaching out to
, you can ask right, like tellme a little bit about like do
you, do you integratespirituality, specifically do
integrate Christianity into thetherapeutic practice?
And this is the part where, whenI was mentioning before some
some schools of therapists andmodalities, they do allow for a
(18:19):
clinician to share with.
Some schools don't, and Ialways give this disclaimer,
even for our faith community.
Every Christian does notbelieve the same Christ.
Let me talk about it.
When somebody professes thatthey are a Christian, they might
not believe in Jesus Christ,the Lord and Savior, came, was
(18:40):
born of a virgin, dwelt amongstus, surrendered himself to the
cross.
You better preach Right Rose.
Up on the third day aftertaking keys of hell to the grave
Came, dwelt amongst hisdisciples, ascended into heaven
and told us he's coming again.
Gave us the Holy Spirit right.
Everybody does not believe thatJesus.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You took us to church , come on.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And so even asking that right Of like when you say
Christianity, who do you profess?
Who do you profess Christ to be?
That's the spirit.
I don't get offended by thatquestion.
I love when people ask me thatI was like don't come and trust
me blindly, right?
Because again, part of somepeople's relationship pathology
(19:22):
is that they trust easily.
They assume somebody who's in aposition of power is
automatically beyond reproach,and so I love when people ask me
like Jesus is Lord.
He came right, because even itsays the demons know and do
tremble, but they don't believe.
(19:43):
And so you have to ask somebodybecause, right, like Mormons,
can I say all of this on yourpodcast?
Mormons believe that they'reChristian, witnesses believe
they're Christian, catholicsbelieve they're Christian, we
(20:03):
believe we're Christian.
Many other schools believethey're Christians.
Right, and so just understandingthat because also that is going
to impact the ways that you'rebeing advised from a faith
perspective.
That you're being advised froma faith perspective and so I
would say, like those are, let'ssay, questions for somebody who
hasn't been in therapy before,is really seeking to know, like
understanding of the style oftherapy, what to expect.
(20:24):
And then about the clinicianthemselves, their history of
experience, and then, if theybelieve, if you have been in
therapy before, it doesn'tguarantee that if you have a
good experience or a badexperience, that it was because
the clinician was good or notgood.
Right because, uh, even, um, isit in second timothy when it
(20:46):
says in the last days, you willkeep up teachers according to
like the ears right, even in wedo that.
We sometimes pick people whodon't challenge us.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So, because if the enemy is wanting to keep you
bound in a certain area andyou're actively seeking the
liberty that God promised you,you have to be aware of how you
have defined God.
Defined God right.
Some people think of God aslike where were you?
(21:18):
And so?
they put him in the seat of theassailant, in the seat of the
person who rejected them,betrayed them, abandoned them.
And so you come into therapywith that same idea, even as a
professing believer, and so partof even if you've had
experience before and it waswonderful or it was horrendous,
it is not because of theclinician.
You were a different personthen and you create a different
(21:40):
dynamic with each person infront of you.
And so I would say for anyonewho's been hurt in therapy
before, is worried about tryingagain, is frustrated with the
process, your life is worthevery effort.
If you went to a school and theschool flooded, would you stop
looking for a school?
If you went to a school andthere was a fire, if you went to
a school and the teachers wereon strike, you wouldn't stop
(22:03):
seeking learning.
How much more for your ownliberty?
Right, like the kingdom suffersviolence.
We don't love that scripture, weuse it, but we are like ha ha,
like I'm going to the enemy'scamp.
No, no, christ preached agospel of suffering, meaning
like we have a real enemy whodoes not want us to lay claim of
the life, of abundance andliberty and freedom that Christ
(22:25):
called us to.
And it is my job to be when theenemy comes, like in the garden
of Eden, did God really say?
And you say yes, god said Icould be free.
You have to say a resoundingyes or else you will eat of the
fruit of knowledge that we werenot meant to have, which means
we try to put ourself in theseat of God in our lives.
And so, just if you've been intherapy before, regardless of
(22:48):
the experience, come in withquestions, come and say this is
what I found to work, this iswhat I found not to work.
Can you integrate these thingsthat I found to work, whether
it's giving me homework, notgiving me homework, giving me
worksheets don't give meworksheets using examples in the
room, not giving me examples inthe room.
Sending me videos, sending mebooks and quotes and things.
(23:10):
Bring up what has worked foryou before and also let this
clinician show you that there'sa vast majority of tools and
resources that they can bring toyou that you might not have
liked before as well.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Oh, this is so good.
Oh my gosh.
Ok, I don't know if I want torun around the room I speak in
tongues.
I'm not quite sure what I wantto do.
Yet you have given us so much.
Oh my gosh, what Christ?
What Christ?
Oh, tell me, yeah, I guesswe're going to go the other day,
(23:44):
because I hear so many say, ohyeah, let's go in, oh yeah,
let's go in.
I hear so many say, oh God,this God, that, what God?
I need to know what God.
Because everybody saying God isnot saying the same God.
And he said many Christ willcome right.
So saying I am, he's like,don't be deceived, because even
(24:05):
the elect can be deceived.
And I love what you're sayinghere.
You know, just because someonehas a license, just because
someone's been practicing for along time or professes a certain
thing, does not mean number one, they're the clinician for you.
Just, you know, just getting atthe baseline.
And then number two doesn'tmean they're good at their trade
(24:25):
, doesn't mean they're evencalled to it.
And then you do us the whammy.
And this about took me out whenyou said you know, the enemy
(24:49):
can use this to keep you bound.
Now you're seeking your freedom, but if you're not discerning
and you haven't asked thequestions, and then the deepest
recesses of your life?
In theory, right um, because ifyou have a good therapeutic
alliance then you can do thatand trust that.
You know once trust is built.
But just because this person isin a place of authority and you
said this so eloquently doesnot mean you should blindly give
(25:11):
them your trust like, oh mygosh, yeah, I tell my, I tell my
clients, especially the ones westarted.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I was like I'm still a stranger.
You've only known me for anhour, hello.
Or when you even after I'veworked with somebody for a month
, you've only known me for fourhours and for a majority of that
you were talking, not me, right?
so you know, trying to trying tohelp people have context,
because, oh, I've been withbernie for six months, yeah, six
(25:39):
months.
Six months counts as 24 hours.
You've known me for a day.
Oh, okay, you've known me for aday.
Okay, I do want you to trustthe process, but I don't want
you to trust me so blindly,right, even even I'm prone to
error, right, but you know toyour point of what you're
thinking about.
Prayer I go into prayer andconsecration always for my
(26:01):
clients god let me show up inthis room in a way that hinders
them, in a way that, like thatum, soothes their demons instead
of irritating them, like I wantto be an irritant to everyone
that is trying to lay hold ofyou, but I want to do it with
love, like god.
Let your love flow through me,your compassion flow through me,
(26:24):
your wisdom, because even loveis firm as well as patient
indeed my love for a clientmeans I don't tolerate when
they're playing games andtherapy.
I I'm like, hey, we've beentrying to talk about your like
this year trauma.
You've been dancing around itfor three sessions.
You ready or do you want totake a break?
Because I honor one that you?
You are investing value and ifyou're not getting value back,
(26:47):
I'm also not getting value backwhen I have to to go before God
and to be like what did you dowith the gifts that you let your
clients play around in sessionand pay you to still be in the
same position?
I hate that.
Right, it's like.
My goal is that you will notneed me and my goal is that I
will show you how much you needGod so that you will always be
(27:08):
pursuing God, whether it's intherapy out of therapy, in
coaching out of coaching, in thecommunity that you pick.
In the communities, you don'tpick.
When you're practicingforgiveness, when you're
practicing boundaries, like, areyou keeping God at the center
of it all, and did I help you toalso see that God is the same
way?
He is firm and gentle.
(27:31):
Yes, lying on land Love does nottolerate seeing the ones they
love hurt, hurt.
So I don't want to tolerateseeing you hurt or stay in pain
or bondage, and so it's not adisrespect to me, it's a
disrespect to your own healingprocess, and so I'm very clear.
I'm trying to tell people like I, I fast and pray to show up
well, I would love to show upwell wow you still need to show
(27:54):
up kind of like what you'resaying it's not just prayer,
it's not just fast, it's notjust deliverance, it's also
therapy, because even in therapywe're practicing how to do life
with someone, so we can go outthere and do life better.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yes, every time I think like this can't get any
better.
It just gets better and betterand better, Right?
So you know I'm I'm sittinghere, I'm listening and I have
worked with a lot of mentalhealth professionals, so I
should give that caveat a lotwhen I say a lot, hundreds and,
(28:28):
I'll be honest, maybe eventhousands, because because of
the work that I do outside ofthe podcast Right, and I have
known all types, I have seeneverything from Satanists to.
That's why, when you said it, Iwas like I got a testimony to
tell to people who should havestopped practicing and gone on
(28:49):
to do something different.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Please don't represent my field and you don't
even like people going to techwork with computers.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
They're going through compassion fatigue themselves
and didn't sit themselves down.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yes, I was like, so you're burnt out, you cannot
take anyone beyond.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You cannot.
You need to sit down and gethealed yourself first.
Hear from the Lord.
Is this still what I'm supposedto be doing right now, in this
season or whatever?
Because you're doing moredamage than you are good.
And I'm sitting here and goingwow, the integrity behind you.
Know, I'm doing this work withyou Like I'm paying a price in
(29:32):
order to do this work with you,so I can hold you to a different
accountability in thetherapeutic process, because I'm
in it for real, right.
So when you're telling meyou're fasting and praying, how
you show up and for your clients, that's a whole different level
.
This is why, when you say, ohyeah, I'm a Christian, I need to
know more, I need to know more,right, and I'm sitting here and
(29:56):
I'm thinking about some of theexperiences I've had
professionally and personally.
And I remember after my divorce,I was so devastated and I did
my best to go find counselingand I was.
I didn't know whether to cry orto laugh after this, so I chose
to laugh and I went to thiswoman's house.
She had her office in thebasement and she told me she had
(30:18):
been practicing like 40 years,and I told her what had
transpired during my marriageand the subsequent separation
and divorce.
And I said I'm looking to workthis stuff out so that it's not
showing up in other areas of mylife.
And she fell asleep during thesession.
(30:42):
She literally nodded off andfell asleep and I was so tickled
and I literally took out myphone and I texted my friend.
I don't know whether to wakeher up or give her a blanket.
I didn't know what to do so Ijust sat there for about a good
15 minutes now, and I know howlong it was.
Yeah, she was asleep, she wasknocked out, and I know it was
(31:04):
15 minutes because I'm textingmy friend like, oh my gosh,
maybe is she having a medicalevent.
Because I'm saying maybe I'mthinking, you know, she's like,
you know, when you're, whenyou're sleeping, and your head
snaps, her head snapped and shewoke up.
And then she proceeded to tellme she didn't think that I was
therapy ready.
When I tell you, I was sotickled.
(31:25):
I was so tickled.
I was like, how would youpossibly know?
I said, well, okay, thank youso much.
Um, I was grateful because, youknow, I was really at a very
vulnerable stage and place in mylife and I said, you know,
father would not let me bedeceived into going into the
wrong therapeutic relationship,and it was so blatant that all I
(31:51):
could do was laugh.
I had to laugh, I had to laughand text my friend right.
But I have to tell you and I'vehad some other experiences as
well, some that have beenfabulous over the course of the
years and some that haven't andthat's why I can truly
appreciate someone like you whois really called to the work and
understands the depth ofresponsibility that you have
(32:15):
before the Lord for what you do,right?
He said in all things, you'resupposed to do things as unto
the Lord, not as unto people.
But everyone takes thatdifferently.
Everyone is not coming with thesame level of dedication.
And then we also do sloppyagape.
I call it sloppy agape Now.
So you know, oh yeah, sloppyagape Now.
So you know, oh yes, sloppyagape.
(32:37):
So so I'm, I'm called tocounsel, but you, you haven't
studied, you're not credentialed, you know.
You, you don't like people,You're not sure you're called to
um, to the work, you're tiredof the work, right?
(32:59):
So those kinds of things gointo it again.
So I call I call it that's mylittle term sloppy agape I love
it, I'm.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I wrote it down.
It's like I'm starting.
Is that what you were?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
doing you, writing that down yes, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Um, where are we showing up with sloppy and gaffy
?
Okay, I, I hate that phrase,yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And she said it with such confidence and I'm like,
lady, you still have drool onthe side of your mouth Right
there, and you have the audacityto tell me I am not therapy
ready.
It was so laughable I'm noteven going to address this, but,
that to be said, it took oh.
(33:44):
And then I had another one andI look back now and I was like
what was the enemy doing?
Because it took me so long toget free.
It took me so long, it took mealmost a decade to get free,
because I didn't get what Ineeded.
At the time I went to anothertherapist and really I was like,
oh my gosh, this person wouldbe really, really helpful.
(34:05):
And she said I would love towork with you and everything was
in place and in space and itwas all good and it was going to
even be covered by my insurance.
She was a believer.
I knew where she went to church.
We had that discussion aboutwhat is Christianity to you and
all this good stuff.
This is just had to be my.
(34:26):
My children were still inelementary school, so this had
to be 25 years ago, and I madethe appointment for the next
visit.
She didn't show and I was like,oh my gosh, maybe I got it
wrong, you know, didn't show.
So I called, I left a message,never, never got a call back.
(34:48):
Well, fast forward about a year, about a year, and I get a
phone call from her newassistant saying that I owed a
copay for the visit that I had ayear ago.
Well, she knows your phone,that she.
I said okay, and it turns out,turns out the person that she
(35:12):
hired I knew personally.
Sure did.
I said okay.
First of all, and y'all know me, I call everybody dear one or
sweetheart, sweetheart Does thatsound like me, okay, first of
all.
Second of all, a year later.
Third of all, she didn't evenshow for that visit.
So please, please, if she hasany questions about this, copay,
(35:36):
ask her to give me a call.
I would love to have thatdiscussion because she just like
literally disappeared from mylife.
So I had some very interestingexperiences up front and now,
looking back right on the otherside of healed, looking back, oh
(35:57):
my gosh, what was the enemy'splan here?
Right, and it wasn't until yousaid that that I even started
putting all the twos and twostogether right to make four.
But I have to tell you thisright here this show is going to
be so impactful to the peopleof God that I am excited for
(36:19):
what it means for our mentalhealth and well-being, for what
it means for our mental healthand wellbeing.
And, that said, we have got totalk about the stigma in the
church of God and in the body ofChrist, about mental health
treatment, counseling, therapy.
It's almost like you have to golike underground to do it, like
(36:44):
you know, can't let anybodyknow, right?
Or the only person I can go tois my pastor, and your pastor is
supposed to pastor you.
He may, she may or may not beable to give you the therapeutic
work that you need to do.
They may or may not be equippedfor that that you need to do.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
They may or may not be equipped for that.
Yes, pastoral counseling andyears of training to become a
therapist is very different.
Also, counseling.
Counseling is advice given,right.
He can advise you fromunderstanding of the Bible,
advise you from maybe otherparishioners that they have
counseled who've gone throughsimilar things.
(37:23):
But they are not looking at youand your dynamics, your systems
, your family, your background,your history and conceptualizing
it in scientific knowledge thatGod allowed us to have access
to knowledge for as a therapist,right.
So I support pastoralcounseling, right.
(37:43):
It's part of what we're sayingof in in um amongst, like many
wise counselors, their safety.
I support it.
But I think it is one unfair toto yourself to show up looking
for one thing where it doesn'texist.
If I go looking for oranges andan apple tree, is it the apple
(38:04):
tree that failed me or theorange tree that failed me?
Or is it me who tried to fitright, like a square peg in a
round hole, right?
So when you're going to apastor for pastoral counseling,
be clear what am I going tocounseling for?
But if you're looking fortherapy and you go to a pastor,
be clear that you're going toleave disappointed.
(38:27):
And it's not the pastor whofailed you.
It's not the Lord who failedyou.
You went to the wrong place forthe wrong thing.
Okay, that's one.
Two stigma how I understandstigma, especially in the
Christian community.
Stigma also points to wherethere is idolatry, because if
(38:49):
God says that there is in thewise counsel, there is safety,
seek wise counsel, count thecost before you do something.
And in the day and age that welive in, like even Luke was a
doctor and so, like the Biblealready tells us that God values
(39:13):
health and wellness and themedical and behavioral health
field, you go and say, no, youjust made yourself God over what
God said.
So stigma is actually idolatryand every idol has that.
So, but when you go to somebodywho tells you that they're
showing you where they are stilllacking knowledge, where
they're still lacking surrender,where they're still lacking
(39:34):
freedom, where they're lackingunderstanding and so but I think
we going back to what we'retalking about with authority.
I know I was raised the sameway of like anyone who's in a
position of leadership in thechurch.
It's almost like their word isinfallible.
And now I'm like, oh, you're aman just like me, called to an
office.
I respect the office, I respectthe anoint to be pursuing
(40:03):
Christ so that if this personever comes into disagreement or
in conflict with what the wordsays, that I can also be able to
parse out what they're saying.
So, yes, then there'scommunities or faith systems
like Word of Faith, faithsystems like word of faith.
Word of faith tells you confessand it's done.
(40:24):
So, meaning that now you go tosay, oh, if I'm not well, it's
because I didn't confess wellenough, but I make myself savior
, I make myself Holy Spirit in away, right, and so even the
going back to like who do youprofess Jesus to be?
Does he have power or Do mywords have power?
Because if my words have power,then I start going into works
(40:51):
without faith, right, like I'm.
Word of faith is actually notword of faith.
It is word of me thinking I amsavior, I am Holy spirit, and so
even then, like part of thestigma can be connected to like
just a false gospel of you know,if you just confess and believe
it is done.
Moses needed his father-in-lawto give him wise counsel about
(41:15):
appointing the 70 elders to helphim with his work.
So you know, like if theydidn't call it therapy, but that
was counsel, right, it wascounsel and wisdom from the lord
.
So that even now that we livein a day and age where
communities are not structuredin the same way they were in
biblical times, where there wasa structure of
(41:36):
multi-generational households,there was a structure of wisdom
passed down, there was astructure of men who sat at the
gate and the women who took onthe younger women and counseled
them and mentored them.
We don't have the samestructures always available,
especially in Westernindividualistic societies versus
collectivist cultures, and sowe have to be mindful that the
(42:00):
stigma sometimes also comes fromtrying to fit a collectivist
Bible into an individualistsociety.
But we don't have the sameparameters available for us.
So prayer works.
Prayer, one of our mostpowerful weapons.
Fasting works one of our mostpowerful weapons.
(42:20):
Amen to that, and even the Bibletalks about when, when you run
into somebody who is cold andhungry and you tell them God
bless you and go your way.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Right, like you fail them.
In James right, it says yougive them a meal and a food and
you also tell them about.
God bless you, right.
But I don't say that you aremore of a believer and less of a
believer because you are inpoverty.
Come on, which is kind of whatwe kind of say.
It's like you're more of abeliever or less of a believer
because you're suffering fromdepression or anxiety.
(42:50):
Those things are a product of afallen world.
They're a product of having areal enemy, but they're not a
product of you not believingenough or God not loving you
enough either.
So part of stigma is alsosometimes believing in a false
gospel or truly missing theheart of God for his people and
(43:13):
then hindering people from beingable to experience the heart of
God in multiple avenues.
How many people have receivedthe heart of God at a
supermarket because the personwho was checking them out did it
as unto the Lord and was kindand patient and understanding,
because somebody paid for theirgroceries right In therapy?
Same thing you can experiencethe heart of God because your
(43:34):
clinician is coming in liketruly operating in the gift, the
anointing and the calling thatGod blessed them to be in in
order to help you understandsome of the things you don't
tell other people because it'sso painful or it's so vulnerable
and so sensitive that you'rewilling to trust them there and
they can actually speak to you.
Where was God when I wasexperiencing assault?
(43:55):
He was right there with you,right.
But also when we understandthat the person who was the
person who was causing harm itis because of their lack of
knowing who god is that theycould do that right we will
right.
And so I think, just when weunderstand like stigma is
(44:16):
connected to idolatry, it isconnected to a misconception, a
misinterpretation of the bible,is connected to uh, the person
who might be giving you thatadvice is connected to their
areas of shortcoming orignorance, or arrogance of the
ignorance.
Yeah, we still have to go tothe word for ourselves, but we
also still have to say if I hada broken leg, am I going to pray
(44:39):
over the broken leg or am Igoing to pray over it for speedy
healing and still go get a cast.
That's right, that's right, andso come get your mental health
cast.
Yes, Get your cast.
We'll pray for your speedyhealing.
We pray that God brings divinerevelation in the room right.
But that's part of the healing.
The cast is part of the healing.
It's part of the healing.
(45:00):
The medicine is part of thehealing.
So even stigma aroundmedication.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Oh my gosh.
And you know I was just talkingto someone who put their
children on medication and thepushback they got from their
family and and from their churchwas really substantial.
And she was like listen, theyare out of control.
You don't want them to come toyour house because right now
(45:27):
they're out of control and whenthey take the medication they're
much better able to get thetools they need.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's it.
You actually are stable enoughto now take on the tools and the
type of behavioralinterventions that I'm trying to
teach you, because sometimeswe're so depressed, so anxious,
so behaviorally dysregulated wecan't even hear, we can't hear
the intervention we're trying toimplement.
(45:57):
So, yeah, and you actually knowAnissa from part of like the
well, she said this one thing inpassing and I was like, oh my
gosh, kind of like how you saida sloppy agape and I was like
she was like I don't take a yesor a no, I don't take a no from
somebody who can't give me a yes.
She was like whoa.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
I have said that.
I have said that, mm-hmm.
I have said that.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
I have said that this person who cannot come and help
me with my children can alsonot tell me not to put them on
medication.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
That's right.
Have no opinion where you haveno responsibility.
You have no opinion where youhave no responsibility.
She's getting ready to writethis down again.
But have no opinion where youhave no responsibility, and that
goes not only for someoneelse's mental health if you're
not part of their solution.
People's marriages oh, amen,wall, um, and I I I think I did
(46:56):
a podcast on that y'all, evenwith celebrities, stop talking
about other people's marriagesand relationships if you have no
authority.
If father hasn't called you tointercede, hush your mouth.
And if he did call you tointercede, he probably also gave
you a gag order on that too,excuse me, okay.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
You have no responsibility and you have an
opinion can also be gossip,right, or it can be trying to to
behave like the Holy spirit insomebody else's life and that's
blasphemous to the Holy Spirit,right, and like we really have
to be mindful that everything wedo is either unto the Lord or
unto the kingdom of darkness.
(47:33):
There is no in between.
There's no gray.
If it's not glorifying the Lord, it is glorifying the enemy.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
And so, like exactly what you're saying of like, I'm
not going to have an opinionwhere I don't have
responsibility, but I'm going tohave intercession.
God, if this is the right thing, let it work.
Help my friend who's strugglingwith your children, give them
wisdom, give them access toresources, a community, let a
random person on the train justbe moved to you know, be grieved
(48:01):
in their heart for them, etcetera.
Right, intercede, because I'malso interceding when I'm like
God.
I don't want to do um, likethis is this, is this?
Feels like it's beyond myself,and one of the best things that
God ever told me, um, or justeven the word ever told me, is
by this they shall know you'remy disciples, by all your love.
(48:21):
The moment I love somebody andjust say, wow, listening to what
you just told me overwhelms me.
I can't imagine what living itmeans.
Sometimes the person needed tohear wow just the validation wow
all they needed to hear.
Because sometimes I'm like,what intervention, what
worksheet you know, what theory,what you know psychodynamic,
(48:42):
like concept?
What distinction can I givethem?
It's like I'm so grateful that,even after all the craziness of
this week, that you decided toshow up today, because even
sometimes I pause, I'm like howdo you want to use today?
How does it best serve youtoday?
Because I don't feel like wecan dive into some of the harder
things because your week hasalready been full of that.
And so how do we find rest here?
(49:03):
Because even therapy can justbe Sabbath.
Come on Sabbath, like God didnot Sabbath because he was tired
.
He Sabbath because he createdthe world to operate between
work and rest.
And so sometimes, like therapycan be the only Sabbath somebody
gets.
It's like let's utilize it inthat way.
And so go back to stigma.
That was the original question.
(49:24):
Sometimes listening to people'sopinions continues to keep you
out of order with the Lord, indisobedience to the Lord, and so
we really have to be mindful ofwhose voice do we glorify above
God's voice, and if it is ourown, we need to lay it down.
If it's our family member, layit down.
(49:44):
If it is a spiritual leader,pastor, whomever lay it down,
because if it's not the voice ofthe Lord that is at the helm of
your life, you areautomatically going to be
steered in the wrong direction.
And so I would say, like stigma, we have the choice to accept
or reject advice, and so ifsomebody is like I don't know if
(50:05):
you should have your kids onmedication, thank you for
letting me know.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Thank you for sharing .
That's one of my favorite.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I'm going to do nothing, you know usually I just
give that resting.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
My daughter calls it resting profit.
Face right, I just oh.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Usually I just give that resting.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
My daughter calls it resting prophet face right.
I just Bianca has that, Thankyou.
Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
So much but I'm just going to be quiet.
But exactly and even that partof like not taking things
personally, when somebody givesyou advice, they've shown you
their heart.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
That's it.
You know you're coming back tothe show, right, that's it.
You know you're coming back tothe show, right, thank you.
You know you have to come back.
First of all, you preached awhole sermon.
I mean we can pass the plateand give the benediction, give
the invitation for everybody tocome to Christ today, because
you did everything from soup tonuts, ma'am, and I am loving
every single minute.
(51:02):
You have got to come back, somake us a promise You'll come
back.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
I will.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Okay, cause we're going to have you back.
We're definitely going to haveyou back because this I think
this is going to be one of themost impactful shows, because it
is not just about okay, youknow.
I mean I could have done a showabout how to select a therapist
.
I could have done it with thework that I've done outside of
this.
I could have done that.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Especially with your sleeping habits.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
But you brought things that I have never in all
of the years that I've beendoing this work.
You've brought things to bearthat I've never even heard
talked about in therapeuticcircles, right, and the irony is
that, well, we'll have to talkoffline about some of this stuff
(51:53):
, but when you come back again,I'm I just I can't even wait.
I am so excited.
To me, this is one of the mostimpactful and one of the best
ever.
To me, this is one of the mostimpactful and one of the best
ever, and I know that father isgoing to take it far and wide,
because his people are hurtingand that is not his heart.
And also, the times that we areliving in, people have got to
(52:14):
be mentally healthy and prepared, because I'm telling you what
is coming.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
The worst is coming.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, all of this until now was just a warmup, but
all of now.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
God's mercy in reminding us that he's still on
the throne.
But to listen.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yes, listen, yes, yes .
And he said if you grow wearywith the footmen, what do they
show up with?
Horses?
Like what?
Right, this was the practice,because this this up until now,
he was like this is this was meaddressing the stuff, addressing
the stuff that we've beenavoiding, and I'm going to say
(53:12):
this in closing, and then, ofcourse, I want your closing
remarks.
What we don't address willsooner or later address us.
Anything that we don't dealwith is going to deal with us.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
That is my favorite thing Like when you don't master
it will master you.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
And because I think we're living in a dispensation
of time we don't have 40 yearsfor the backside of the desert
to learn lessons, right,everything has been sped up
right, and then we add AI to it,so it exponentially.
Oh, we can't even go there.
If I went there today, if Icould walk that dog today.
But I think that we are livingin a dispensation of time where
(53:55):
things are so rapidly changingand things are happening so fast
.
The word says one thing afteranother, one thing on the heels
of another, right that thereaper would overtake the sower
Before you can even stop tothink about something or get
something fully in place.
You have to have your mentalcapacity just so that you have
(54:16):
the margin in your being to beable to do the things that God
is calling you to do, to be ableto hear being to be able to do
the things that God is callingyou to do, to be able to hear.
Like you said, you can't evenhear what to do next, because
you're still dealing with whathappened to you 20 years ago.
Oh, my Lord, I wish somebodyhad told me.
I wish somebody had told me,but now that I know, now that.
(54:36):
We know we can't.
I know, and not only that, wehave to tell it far and wide, we
have to.
So a few things.
Number one I am going to putyour contact info in the show
notes, because everybody needsBernie, everybody needs Jesus.
Let me be clear Everybody needsJesus first, everybody needs
Jesus first.
But Bernie has Jesus, the realJesus, the crucified, risen and
(55:00):
coming again.
Jesus, amen, amen.
Just in case any of y'all aredoubting the real Jesus, we
settled that.
We settled that.
We settled that now, and alsoI'm going to put the link to
your book.
Can you please tell us what isthe name of your book?
I happen to have it right hereplease pull it up for me I wish
(55:21):
I know I had, but I do kindlestuff.
So, yeah, I had to do thatbecause my books I had so many
they were falling off theshelves.
Let me see.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
So tell us, tell us a little bit about your book as
we wrap up around our worth andpurpose in the Lord, and that
God does delight in us, and soit just walks us through Bible
scripture, prayer excerpts andstories around, chaining towards
the heart of God, towards usLike.
(55:51):
I always joke that I'm arecovering perfectionist, but
it's because I truly didn'tunderstand who I was as a
daughter of the living.
God, the King of heaven andearth.
And so the scripture is meant towalk us through that, to
understand who God is and thenwho we are in response to him
and his word.
That he told us, that he lovesus enough to reveal himself to
us and his heart towards us.
(56:12):
And whether we accept it or not, it is true.
Hopefully the book gets you towalk through acceptance that you
do serve a God who has loved uswith an everlasting love, that
he's not scrambling up there tofigure out all the things you
ever did or didn't do for hisglory and at any point he is
waiting.
He's drawing you with love andkindness towards him.
(56:32):
So it's short and sweet and tothe point and, you know, I hope
it is a jumpstart for people todive more into the word, because
the more you know who theauthor is, the more you want to
know about his writing, and so Ihope that the book helps you to
know about God's love anddelight in his word.
And you were birthed from hisword, and so he did like to keep
(56:54):
reading his word and keepdelighting in it and learning
more about him and who you are.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Oh my goodness.
So God.
Be all the glory that.
That the description of thebook.
You do everything with suchpassion.
The description of the bookjust blessed my whole soul.
So thank you so much, my love,oh my gosh y'all.
So I know a book sale is aboutto blow up because every one of
us needs that book and I lovewhat you said.
I introduced myself.
I am the daughter of the mosthigh God, the ruler and
(57:25):
possessor of heaven and earth.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
I am she, I am she, so to him be all the glory, the
honor and the praise.
Okay, and I know I'm God'sfavorite because in BC and
Brooklyn streets I find parking.
You understand, I find parking.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Oh, oh, that's serious.
The Lord loves me.
Oh, that's serious.
See, okay, I'm just going tosay this.
I know I will tell you what'sreally interesting.
This podcast has been heard in24 countries.
There's two countries I didn'teven know existed and I had to
do a little geography for myself.
Right, I had to check out thegeography for myself, but this
(57:58):
is heard all around the world.
So for some of you, you willnot get the concept of trying to
park in Brooklyn.
Trying to park in Brooklyn islike trying to nail jello to a
wall.
I don't even know how toexplain that.
The fact that you said that youget parking because I thought
you were going to park in theseBrooklyn streets and I'm safe,
but when you said parking, ohsee, that's favor.
(58:22):
No, that's real favor, favor,yeah, that's evidence of a real
godly favor.
Because that parking, god wholets me?
Yeah, yeah, I've gone tobrooklyn and had a park in
queens.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
That's no joke I have my car a 20 minute walk away,
because that's the best I couldfind I've done that.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
I've parked, I've parked in a place and took an
Uber Right Because I had to park.
So far, I have parked and takenthe bus, I have parked and
taken the train, and not becauseI was lazy, but because I was
literally in a different part ofthe county.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
You just couldn't find it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
And you just couldn't find the parking.
And then you know people double, triple park, so we won't even
talk about that, Right?
So then you park your car andyou can't get it back out.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
So no, you have to wait for the person to come down
.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yes, so yes, this woman is walking in divine favor
.
I'm telling you, I could talkto you all day long, but you
have promised us, you promisedus that you're going to come
back to that.
I'm holding you to that, andwhat I'm going to ask everyone
is if you have questions.
If you have questions, emailyour questions.
(59:28):
I'm going to put a link in theshow notes for you to do that,
so that the next time Berniecomes on, if you have any
questions, we can get thoseanswered for you or at least
point you to a resource.
That would be good for you.
All right, all right, y'all.
Until next time, be wonderfullyblessed.
This is the position podcast.
(59:48):
Signing out.
Have a great day.
Bye now.
All right, welcome to the Positioned Podcast, where
we position you for success inlife, love and business.
I am your host, kimberly Knight, and I am joined by licensed
therapist Bernadette Kerr, whois here to talk about how to
choose a mental health provider.
So I just want to read a littlebit of her accolades, because
(00:23):
they are many.
She is well-qualified to helpus today and I can't wait.
Bernie is a Kenyon-bornlicensed therapist and author.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthe book.
She works with adults andengages through therapeutic work
, conferences, wellness events,masterclasses, webinars,
workshops.
You name it events,masterclasses, webinars,
(00:48):
workshops, you name it, she'sthere.
She's also a certified ADHDcoach.
She also holds additionalcertifications in restorative
justice, mindfulness, faith,spirituality and mental health,
which we're going to talk abouttoday suicide prevention and
crisis management, compassion,fatigue, anxiety, depression,
passion fatigue, anxiety,depression, racial trauma and
PTSD.
I tell you, I can't wait tohear what she has to share with
(01:10):
us.
Welcome, bernie.
Thank you, thank you, it is sogood to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I've loved talking about this topic because we love
having you.
Anyone who's listened to mypodcast knows that I believe in
Jesus, hallelujah.
I believe in prayer and thepower of prayer.
I know deliverance works andtherapy right, and they all have
different roles in our lives,and I would love to hear your
(01:40):
mindset on these things.
And also, how do we find atherapist, because finding one
can be daunting.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yes, okay.
So I love this question so muchbecause something happens when
it comes to finding a therapistthat we kind of disconnect from
the reality of.
We're always trusting differentforms of systems and people,
but we don't ask them abouttheir faith.
From when you are inkindergarten, you didn't ask
(02:08):
your daycare worker if they werea believer.
You didn't ask the school ifthey were a believer.
When you had to go get yourvaccines and your monthly
checkups, annual checkups, youdidn't ask them if they were a
believer.
When you went to college, youdidn't ask all your professors
if they were a believer.
But what did you do?
You trusted the institution togive you the service that you
went in for, right.
That doesn't change whetherit's a believer who teaches it
(02:29):
or doesn't.
There is a way that they canteach it right, like with the
fruit of the spirit.
But the content one plus one istwo, no matter who teaches it
right, whether it's a parent athome, homeschooling, a teacher
at school, college level oneplus one equals two always, and
so, when it comes to finding atherapist, I am a believer and I
(02:53):
understand the value of talkingto a believer.
And I also know about systemicoppression and how it affects
people's access to resourcessystemic oppression and how it
affects people's access toresources.
I understand that differentschools of therapy.
They actually don't believe inthe therapist sharing about
themselves because they feellike it can affect the clinical
(03:15):
space that it takes away fromthe client, and so that can be a
hindrance for certain people.
But for certain people itdoesn't have to be, because,
again, when we are trained tounderstand how to help you see
patterns patterns of health orpatterns that are unhealthy,
patterns that are congruent withyour beliefs, your morals, your
(03:36):
values, or incongruentbehaviors that are in sync with
what you believe or are not.
Somebody who has the lens of aclinician, regardless of their
belief system, can actually getyou there.
Now we're going to get intothis when we're talking about a
different part around.
Is it necessary to have aChristian therapist?
(03:57):
I think it is very helpful toalso know when we are going in
that whatever issue we're tryingto work out in therapy, it's
actually going to show up withyour clinician.
When we say what happens in theclinical space.
We want to take it outside.
But what's happening outside inyour life, you bring it into
(04:17):
the clinical space.
So if you're distrusting,regardless of the clinician that
you have, a level of distressis going to show up in the room.
And so, as a clinician, I knowthat, even as a believer working
with other believers, they canfind a reason to say why therapy
won't work, because theirpatterns and dynamics of
dysfunction will show up with us.
(04:38):
But the goal is that we learnhow to practice in the clinical
room, how to operate outside ina different way that nourishes
you, that aligns with God's word, that aligns with the freedom
and the liberty that he died onthe cross to give to us.
And whether I'm a believer andmy client is a believer or not,
(04:59):
if they have an experience oftrauma, if they have experiences
of assault and violence, ifthey grew up in families where
there was a lot of disparagingbeliefs or narratives, even in
their work with me theyautomatically hold me as the
figure that hurt them, and itmight take time for them to
actually trust the therapeuticprocess, and so one when you are
(05:22):
getting ready to find atherapist like really be clear
on.
What is it that I would likethem to help me with and what am
I open to learning that Iactually didn't even know was an
issue?
All right, one of our goals isto also bring up blind spots.
As somebody who's having anobjective experience of you, I
can see things from a vantagepoint you don't see, and are you
(05:45):
willing to hear?
You don't have to believe, youdon't have to agree.
Are you willing to hear andexplore?
And so, just coming in with alevel of curiosity of there's
some stuff that I am an experton my life.
Nobody has lived my life and soI'm coming to tell my therapist
about expertise of my life, butI also trust that they have an
expertise of training thatallows them to see the
(06:06):
experiences in my life from acertain vantage point, and I'm
willing to hear and I'm willingto let them come and walk
alongside me, because, if you're, one of the best things that I
learned in my training is, myjob is to not come to tell you
how to live your life.
My job is to walk alongside youin the ways you let me.
So if somebody doesn't let meinto a certain area, I'm not
(06:29):
going to barge my way in becausethat could be traumatizing.
It violates consent, itviolates trust, it shifts the
power dynamic.
I start to take control oversomebody else's life, and that's
not what I came for.
So if you don't let me into aparticular area, I can name it
and I'm also going to walkalongside where you let me, and
so just helping peopleunderstand that, like really do
(06:51):
the introspective work of thisis what I'm coming in for right
now.
As far as I understand it and Iknow that this person that I'm
going to be working with canhelp me understand it
differently and we're incollaboration with each other,
so I'm not coming to tell them,like, why aren't you making
therapy work for me?
Because we're working togetherbut I'm also not so controlling
(07:14):
of the conversation that I'mtrying to be my own therapist,
but I hired a therapist to helpme.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (07:20):
It does, it does.
So I'm hearing you say thatunderstanding the therapeutic
process right, whatever themodality, is very important, so
that, going in, we're at us whatto do, but to point out some
blind spots and some patternsthat may need to be looked at to
(07:40):
make the adjustments to getwhere we want to go.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Yes, and then now we collaborate and like what is
going to be the treatment goal,right?
So once we've kind of startedthat kind of introductory
conversation and getting alittle bit of background, then
we want to pinpoint, like whatis what is going to be the goal
of therapy, and goals evolve,right.
So we check in every so oftenand so that's kind of the
therapeutic process part ofthings for preparation.
(08:17):
The logistical and liketactical part of things I would
say you know, please know.
If you have insurance coverageor you're going to be paying out
of pocket, recognize whatlimitations might be in your
budget, right.
So for folks who don't haveinsurance, we operate on
something called a sliding scale.
A lot of training institutessometimes are free just because
they want their clinicians tohave folks to work with and they
(08:39):
get supervision, and so that'sa really great outlet for folks
who financially are strapped andmight not have insurance
coverage.
If you do have insurancecoverage, just know what your
co-pays or co-insurancesdeductibles are a deductible of
(09:07):
$3,500 before they start to pay.
And so knowing these thingshelps you to really know.
Okay, am I going in asking forsliding scale upfront?
Am I going in knowing that I'mgoing to have to invest heavily
in the beginning, but after thatfor the rest of the year my
co-pays are going to be $0,right, and that way you can also
kind of budget and have anexpectation of even frequency.
Right, because I have folks whoI see weekly because they can
(09:31):
manage that.
I have folks who I see twice amonth, folks I see once a month
because that's what theirbudgets and their resources,
their current state canfacilitate.
And so the logistical end, Iwould say checking with
insurance.
You know we're in a time of like, um, telehealth, uh, thankfully
, which is helping folks reallyum attend their appointments
(09:52):
without issue.
Because before, right, run intotrain delays, run into traffic
on your way, your session's gone.
But now you can kind of log inanywhere but always know that
you need to have a privateconfidential space.
Like I actually cannot have asession if you need to have a
private confidential space.
Like I actually cannot have asession if you don't have a
private confidential space, themoment a distraction or extra
(10:13):
person is in the room, itchanges the dynamic of what we
can, we can create that day.
And so you know logistically,like know where you're going to
be If you have to be in a car,cause I get it fine, but are you
alone in the car?
You cannot be in a car becauseI get it fine, but are you alone
in the car?
You cannot be in a taxi or atthe beach.
These are experiences I've hadat the beach, in the beach tent,
with their girlfriend.
I'm like we cannot meet and soyou know things like that.
(10:38):
Um, and then have a notebook andpen and paper wow when you go
class you show up with thosethings just to learn a subject.
How much more when you come tolearn about your life and so
really coming ready to learnright, part of the curiosity
it's I'm going to learnsomething.
Today we have an hour to kindof process like multiple themes
(11:00):
and I need to meditate on thesethings.
I need to reflect on thesethings, gather evidence of these
things.
I need to reflect on thesethings, gather evidence of these
things, and this is notnecessarily always possible for
folks, but I would encouragethat.
Do life in community, becauseeven part of those themes and
those blind spots, when you goto someone and be like my
therapist said that I jumped toconclusions and your friends be
(11:21):
like we've been telling youconclusions, we could see, you
know they can help you gatherthe evidence.
Or they can say, hmm, I neverthought of you in this way but
I'm wondering what you said thatmade the therapist maybe here.
Or I wonder how I see you rightas your friend.
I see you in a particular lightand so I might not see those
(11:42):
things.
But we can go.
We can go in like investigation, discovery together.
You know, like as a therapist,I have a therapist and my best
friend is a therapist and I'llbe like best friend.
She said xyz, and she was like Idon't see that about you, you
know.
I, I told her, I was like, yeah, she was like, you know, like,
um, there's a little bit ofpride when you think about this
(12:03):
era.
And I was like me, prideful,you know, and she was like I
don't think of you as prideful.
And then we, we like broke downwhat?
What is the definition of pride?
Puffed up in an area, thinkingyou are beyond reproach in an
area, right, because I'm anexpert now, I'm a therapeutic
expert, I can't be corrected,right and so.
(12:24):
And then so, when we both kindof broke it down, I was like,
all right, the behavior notnecessarily my character as a
person, but my behavior in thisparticular area was puffed up
and so, like, now I canunderstand what humility might
look like, and so, part of alsobeing in community, um, because
even the bible talks about um,in the, in the, in the, in the
(12:45):
presence of multiple kind ofwise counsel, there's safety
right.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So, one.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
therapist is a person of wise counsel, and the people
God has allowed us to do lifewith can also be wise counsel.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
So good.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Even in therapy we're talking about how to pick a
loss counsel better, Right,Because sometimes we give people
access and proximity to us whoare not lost, who are not
healthy and hopeful towards ourdestiny.
And so, yeah, from like thetherapeutic piece, definitely
recommend the curiosity, comingready to learn that certain
things about yourself that youmight not be ready to intend to
give expertise about your life,your experiences and being
(13:24):
honest there.
And then logistically you know,a private, confidential space
to know about your insurancecoverage and how you're going to
be covering for services or ifyou're looking for a no fee or
no fee service.
And then pen and paper ready tolearn and then find community
to kind of process with, if youcan.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Oh, I am loving these starter tips, oh my gosh.
And the passion that you havefor this area is is evident.
And you brought up so many ofthe things that I would bring up
when I'm working in my singlesgroups, right?
Or my coaching groups, right,doing don't.
Don't do this alone, right, youhave to have community.
You must have community, andfather created us that way,
(14:05):
right To, to desire to be incommunity and have that need to
have people speak into our lives.
And I always say you needsomebody who knows you and
somebody who knows you.
So somebody who K-N-O-W-U so.
I see that in you, but let'swork that through.
Oh yeah, I guess we did seethat, right, so that's somebody
(14:26):
who knows you.
That cracks me up.
And then somebody who knows you, n-o-u right, who can say, no,
don't do that.
No, he's not the one you know.
So, doing life in communitywhere people can check you iron
sharpens iron, right?
I also love when you talk aboutbeing intentional about the
process.
I've never, ever, ever thoughtto bring a notebook Like I don't
(14:47):
know why not.
I am an avid note taker butnever thought of that.
Oh my gosh, that was such agood tip.
So you gave us everything from.
You know what to expectfrequency, you talked about.
You know how to make it reallywork and make it even more
impactful.
You know, by bringing it toyour trusted community.
(15:09):
What about the questions to askin selecting right, because I
know that for some people,finding one and narrowing it
down and seeing someone that youcan therapeutically align with
is not that easy.
So what kind of suggestions doyou have for us about that?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah.
So I always encourage likehaving.
So let me start.
If you've never been in therapybefore, we can talk about like
one set of questions.
If you've been in therapybefore because you have a little
bit of experience, then I'dalso encourage like pulling off
of experience.
Then I'd also encourage likepulling off of experience.
But, in general, I say, like,just ask the clinician about
themselves how long they've beendoing this, for if they do
(15:52):
subscribe to a particular styleor modality.
So modality means like atherapeutic philosophy of sorts,
right?
So when I talk about likesomebody who's trauma informed,
let's say somebody who's trainedin CBT, which is cognitive
behavioral therapy, right,there's a particular vantage
point that they use fortreatment of.
You know, our thoughts affectour emotions, affect our
(16:13):
behavior.
So they're always looking forthought, emotional, behavior
sequences.
And then there's like, let'ssay, dbt, which is dialectical
behavioral therapy, and we'realways looking for how opposite
truths are coexisting or wherethey create tension and how to
create area, right.
And then there's likepsychodynamic, we're looking for
like how, um, themes andexperiences from our early, like
(16:34):
childhood life are stillplaying out in our adult lives
and are showing up in multipledifferent spaces in the same way
, psychoanalytical, how they areconscious and it can guide,
guide our consciousdecision-making and behavior.
And so they're digging a lotfor the unconscious, right?
So when you ask a therapist andyou don't have to know what
(16:54):
that means, right, you're justasking do you subscribe to a
particular style of therapy?
Can you tell me more?
How has it shown up withsomebody who's going to be
coming to you for XYZ that I'mcoming to you with.
So, let's say, anxiety, I'mcoming to you to work with you
on anxiety.
So how do you use psychodynamictherapy to treat anxiety?
And then the therapist canexplain a little bit and you
(17:16):
know whatever else that youmight want to know about.
Do you accept insurance and allthese different things?
And then another question isaround faith and all these
different things.
And then another question isaround faith.
So in all my profiles online inmy website, it is clearly stated
that I am trained aroundintegrating spirituality into my
social work practice, into mytherapy practice, and I also
(17:37):
share that I'm a believer.
There are different platformsthat I'm already a part of that
automatically tell you that I'ma believer and I also say for
folks who would like tointegrate this we believer.
And I also say for folks whowould like to integrate this, we
can.
Because I also work with a lotof non-believers and so if
somebody has an explicitlyshared this from their website,
or if you called your insurancefor referrals and they didn't
(17:58):
tell you these things about thetherapist you're reaching out to
, you can ask right, like tellme a little bit about like do
you, do you integratespirituality, specifically do
integrate Christianity into thetherapeutic practice?
And this is the part where, whenI was mentioning before some
some schools of therapists andmodalities, they do allow for a
(18:19):
clinician to share with.
Some schools don't, and Ialways give this disclaimer,
even for our faith community.
Every Christian does notbelieve the same Christ.
Let me talk about it.
When somebody professes thatthey are a Christian, they might
not believe in Jesus Christ,the Lord and Savior, came, was
(18:40):
born of a virgin, dwelt amongstus, surrendered himself to the
cross.
You better preach Right Rose.
Up on the third day aftertaking keys of hell to the grave
Came, dwelt amongst hisdisciples, ascended into heaven
and told us he's coming again.
Gave us the Holy Spirit right.
Everybody does not believe thatJesus.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
You took us to church , come on.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
And so even asking that right Of like when you say
Christianity, who do you profess?
Who do you profess Christ to be?
That's the spirit.
I don't get offended by thatquestion.
I love when people ask me thatI was like don't come and trust
me blindly, right?
Because again, part of somepeople's relationship pathology
(19:22):
is that they trust easily.
They assume somebody who's in aposition of power is
automatically beyond reproach,and so I love when people ask me
like Jesus is Lord.
He came right, because even itsays the demons know and do
tremble, but they don't believe.
(19:43):
And so you have to ask somebodybecause, right, like Mormons,
can I say all of this on yourpodcast?
Mormons believe that they'reChristian, witnesses believe
they're Christian, catholicsbelieve they're Christian, we
(20:03):
believe we're Christian.
Many other schools believethey're Christians.
Right, and so just understandingthat because also that is going
to impact the ways that you'rebeing advised from a faith
perspective.
That you're being advised froma faith perspective and so I
would say, like those are, let'ssay, questions for somebody who
hasn't been in therapy before,is really seeking to know, like
understanding of the style oftherapy, what to expect.
(20:24):
And then about the clinicianthemselves, their history of
experience, and then, if theybelieve, if you have been in
therapy before, it doesn'tguarantee that if you have a
good experience or a badexperience, that it was because
the clinician was good or notgood.
Right because, uh, even, um, isit in second timothy when it
(20:46):
says in the last days, you willkeep up teachers according to
like the ears right, even in wedo that.
We sometimes pick people whodon't challenge us.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
So, because if the enemy is wanting to keep you
bound in a certain area andyou're actively seeking the
liberty that God promised you,you have to be aware of how you
have defined God.
Defined God right.
Some people think of God aslike where were you?
(21:18):
And so?
they put him in the seat of theassailant, in the seat of the
person who rejected them,betrayed them, abandoned them.
And so you come into therapywith that same idea, even as a
professing believer, and so partof even if you've had
experience before and it waswonderful or it was horrendous,
it is not because of theclinician.
You were a different personthen and you create a different
(21:40):
dynamic with each person infront of you.
And so I would say for anyonewho's been hurt in therapy
before, is worried about tryingagain, is frustrated with the
process, your life is worthevery effort.
If you went to a school and theschool flooded, would you stop
looking for a school?
If you went to a school andthere was a fire, if you went to
a school and the teachers wereon strike, you wouldn't stop
(22:03):
seeking learning.
How much more for your ownliberty?
Right, like the kingdom suffersviolence.
We don't love that scripture, weuse it, but we are like ha ha,
like I'm going to the enemy'scamp.
No, no, christ preached agospel of suffering, meaning
like we have a real enemy whodoes not want us to lay claim of
the life, of abundance andliberty and freedom that Christ
(22:25):
called us to.
And it is my job to be when theenemy comes, like in the garden
of Eden, did God really say?
And you say yes, god said Icould be free.
You have to say a resoundingyes or else you will eat of the
fruit of knowledge that we werenot meant to have, which means
we try to put ourself in theseat of God in our lives.
And so, just if you've been intherapy before, regardless of
(22:48):
the experience, come in withquestions, come and say this is
what I found to work, this iswhat I found not to work.
Can you integrate these thingsthat I found to work, whether
it's giving me homework, notgiving me homework, giving me
worksheets don't give meworksheets using examples in the
room, not giving me examples inthe room.
Sending me videos, sending mebooks and quotes and things.
(23:10):
Bring up what has worked foryou before and also let this
clinician show you that there'sa vast majority of tools and
resources that they can bring toyou that you might not have
liked before as well.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
Oh, this is so good.
Oh my gosh.
Ok, I don't know if I want torun around the room I speak in
tongues.
I'm not quite sure what I wantto do.
Yet you have given us so much.
Oh my gosh, what Christ?
What Christ?
Oh, tell me, yeah, I guesswe're going to go the other day,
(23:44):
because I hear so many say, ohyeah, let's go in, oh yeah,
let's go in.
I hear so many say, oh God,this God, that, what God?
I need to know what God.
Because everybody saying God isnot saying the same God.
And he said many Christ willcome right.
So saying I am, he's like,don't be deceived, because even
(24:05):
the elect can be deceived.
And I love what you're sayinghere.
You know, just because someonehas a license, just because
someone's been practicing for along time or professes a certain
thing, does not mean number one, they're the clinician for you.
Just, you know, just getting atthe baseline.
And then number two doesn'tmean they're good at their trade
(24:25):
, doesn't mean they're evencalled to it.
And then you do us the whammy.
And this about took me out whenyou said you know, the enemy
(24:49):
can use this to keep you bound.
Now you're seeking your freedom, but if you're not discerning
and you haven't asked thequestions, and then the deepest
recesses of your life?
In theory, right um, because ifyou have a good therapeutic
alliance then you can do thatand trust that.
You know once trust is built.
But just because this person isin a place of authority and you
said this so eloquently doesnot mean you should blindly give
(25:11):
them your trust like, oh mygosh, yeah, I tell my, I tell my
clients, especially the ones westarted.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I was like I'm still a stranger.
You've only known me for anhour, hello.
Or when you even after I'veworked with somebody for a month
, you've only known me for fourhours and for a majority of that
you were talking, not me, right?
so you know, trying to trying tohelp people have context,
because, oh, I've been withbernie for six months, yeah, six
(25:39):
months.
Six months counts as 24 hours.
You've known me for a day.
Oh, okay, you've known me for aday.
Okay, I do want you to trustthe process, but I don't want
you to trust me so blindly,right, even even I'm prone to
error, right, but you know toyour point of what you're
thinking about.
Prayer I go into prayer andconsecration always for my
(26:01):
clients god let me show up inthis room in a way that hinders
them, in a way that, like thatum, soothes their demons instead
of irritating them, like I wantto be an irritant to everyone
that is trying to lay hold ofyou, but I want to do it with
love, like god.
Let your love flow through me,your compassion flow through me,
(26:24):
your wisdom, because even loveis firm as well as patient
indeed my love for a clientmeans I don't tolerate when
they're playing games andtherapy.
I I'm like, hey, we've beentrying to talk about your like
this year trauma.
You've been dancing around itfor three sessions.
You ready or do you want totake a break?
Because I honor one that you?
You are investing value and ifyou're not getting value back,
(26:47):
I'm also not getting value backwhen I have to to go before God
and to be like what did you dowith the gifts that you let your
clients play around in sessionand pay you to still be in the
same position?
I hate that.
Right, it's like.
My goal is that you will notneed me and my goal is that I
will show you how much you needGod so that you will always be
(27:08):
pursuing God, whether it's intherapy out of therapy, in
coaching out of coaching, in thecommunity that you pick.
In the communities, you don'tpick.
When you're practicingforgiveness, when you're
practicing boundaries, like, areyou keeping God at the center
of it all, and did I help you toalso see that God is the same
way?
He is firm and gentle.
(27:31):
Yes, lying on land Love does nottolerate seeing the ones they
love hurt, hurt.
So I don't want to tolerateseeing you hurt or stay in pain
or bondage, and so it's not adisrespect to me, it's a
disrespect to your own healingprocess, and so I'm very clear.
I'm trying to tell people like I, I fast and pray to show up
well, I would love to show upwell wow you still need to show
(27:54):
up kind of like what you'resaying it's not just prayer,
it's not just fast, it's notjust deliverance, it's also
therapy, because even in therapywe're practicing how to do life
with someone, so we can go outthere and do life better.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yes, every time I think like this can't get any
better.
It just gets better and betterand better, Right?
So you know I'm I'm sittinghere, I'm listening and I have
worked with a lot of mentalhealth professionals, so I
should give that caveat a lotwhen I say a lot, hundreds and,
(28:28):
I'll be honest, maybe eventhousands, because because of
the work that I do outside ofthe podcast Right, and I have
known all types, I have seeneverything from Satanists to.
That's why, when you said it, Iwas like I got a testimony to
tell to people who should havestopped practicing and gone on
(28:49):
to do something different.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Please don't represent my field and you don't
even like people going to techwork with computers.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
They're going through compassion fatigue themselves
and didn't sit themselves down.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yes, I was like, so you're burnt out, you cannot
take anyone beyond.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
You cannot.
You need to sit down and gethealed yourself first.
Hear from the Lord.
Is this still what I'm supposedto be doing right now, in this
season or whatever?
Because you're doing moredamage than you are good.
And I'm sitting here and goingwow, the integrity behind you.
Know, I'm doing this work withyou Like I'm paying a price in
(29:32):
order to do this work with you,so I can hold you to a different
accountability in thetherapeutic process, because I'm
in it for real, right.
So when you're telling meyou're fasting and praying, how
you show up and for your clients, that's a whole different level
.
This is why, when you say, ohyeah, I'm a Christian, I need to
know more, I need to know more,right, and I'm sitting here and
(29:56):
I'm thinking about some of theexperiences I've had
professionally and personally.
And I remember after my divorce,I was so devastated and I did
my best to go find counselingand I was.
I didn't know whether to cry orto laugh after this, so I chose
to laugh and I went to thiswoman's house.
She had her office in thebasement and she told me she had
(30:18):
been practicing like 40 years,and I told her what had
transpired during my marriageand the subsequent separation
and divorce.
And I said I'm looking to workthis stuff out so that it's not
showing up in other areas of mylife.
And she fell asleep during thesession.
(30:42):
She literally nodded off andfell asleep and I was so tickled
and I literally took out myphone and I texted my friend.
I don't know whether to wakeher up or give her a blanket.
I didn't know what to do so Ijust sat there for about a good
15 minutes now, and I know howlong it was.
Yeah, she was asleep, she wasknocked out, and I know it was
(31:04):
15 minutes because I'm textingmy friend like, oh my gosh,
maybe is she having a medicalevent.
Because I'm saying maybe I'mthinking, you know, she's like,
you know, when you're, whenyou're sleeping, and your head
snaps, her head snapped and shewoke up.
And then she proceeded to tellme she didn't think that I was
therapy ready.
When I tell you, I was sotickled.
(31:25):
I was so tickled.
I was like, how would youpossibly know?
I said, well, okay, thank youso much.
Um, I was grateful because, youknow, I was really at a very
vulnerable stage and place in mylife and I said, you know,
father would not let me bedeceived into going into the
wrong therapeutic relationship,and it was so blatant that all I
(31:51):
could do was laugh.
I had to laugh, I had to laughand text my friend right.
But I have to tell you and I'vehad some other experiences as
well, some that have beenfabulous over the course of the
years and some that haven't andthat's why I can truly
appreciate someone like you whois really called to the work and
understands the depth ofresponsibility that you have
(32:15):
before the Lord for what you do,right?
He said in all things, you'resupposed to do things as unto
the Lord, not as unto people.
But everyone takes thatdifferently.
Everyone is not coming with thesame level of dedication.
And then we also do sloppyagape.
I call it sloppy agape Now.
So you know, oh yeah, sloppyagape Now.
So you know, oh yes, sloppyagape.
(32:37):
So so I'm, I'm called tocounsel, but you, you haven't
studied, you're not credentialed, you know.
You, you don't like people,You're not sure you're called to
um, to the work, you're tiredof the work, right?
(32:59):
So those kinds of things gointo it again.
So I call I call it that's mylittle term sloppy agape I love
it, I'm.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I wrote it down.
It's like I'm starting.
Is that what you were?
Speaker 1 (33:12):
doing you, writing that down yes, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Um, where are we showing up with sloppy and gaffy
?
Okay, I, I hate that phrase,yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
And she said it with such confidence and I'm like,
lady, you still have drool onthe side of your mouth Right
there, and you have the audacityto tell me I am not therapy
ready.
It was so laughable I'm noteven going to address this, but,
that to be said, it took oh.
(33:44):
And then I had another one andI look back now and I was like
what was the enemy doing?
Because it took me so long toget free.
It took me so long, it took mealmost a decade to get free,
because I didn't get what Ineeded.
At the time I went to anothertherapist and really I was like,
oh my gosh, this person wouldbe really, really helpful.
(34:05):
And she said I would love towork with you and everything was
in place and in space and itwas all good and it was going to
even be covered by my insurance.
She was a believer.
I knew where she went to church.
We had that discussion aboutwhat is Christianity to you and
all this good stuff.
This is just had to be my.
(34:26):
My children were still inelementary school, so this had
to be 25 years ago, and I madethe appointment for the next
visit.
She didn't show and I was like,oh my gosh, maybe I got it
wrong, you know, didn't show.
So I called, I left a message,never, never got a call back.
(34:48):
Well, fast forward about a year, about a year, and I get a
phone call from her newassistant saying that I owed a
copay for the visit that I had ayear ago.
Well, she knows your phone,that she.
I said okay, and it turns out,turns out the person that she
(35:12):
hired I knew personally.
Sure did.
I said okay.
First of all, and y'all know me, I call everybody dear one or
sweetheart, sweetheart Does thatsound like me, okay, first of
all.
Second of all, a year later.
Third of all, she didn't evenshow for that visit.
So please, please, if she hasany questions about this, copay,
(35:36):
ask her to give me a call.
I would love to have thatdiscussion because she just like
literally disappeared from mylife.
So I had some very interestingexperiences up front and now,
looking back right on the otherside of healed, looking back, oh
(35:57):
my gosh, what was the enemy'splan here?
Right, and it wasn't until yousaid that that I even started
putting all the twos and twostogether right to make four.
But I have to tell you thisright here this show is going to
be so impactful to the peopleof God that I am excited for
(36:19):
what it means for our mentalhealth and well-being, for what
it means for our mental healthand wellbeing.
And, that said, we have got totalk about the stigma in the
church of God and in the body ofChrist, about mental health
treatment, counseling, therapy.
It's almost like you have to golike underground to do it, like
(36:44):
you know, can't let anybodyknow, right?
Or the only person I can go tois my pastor, and your pastor is
supposed to pastor you.
He may, she may or may not beable to give you the therapeutic
work that you need to do.
They may or may not be equippedfor that that you need to do.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
They may or may not be equipped for that.
Yes, pastoral counseling andyears of training to become a
therapist is very different.
Also, counseling.
Counseling is advice given,right.
He can advise you fromunderstanding of the Bible,
advise you from maybe otherparishioners that they have
counseled who've gone throughsimilar things.
(37:23):
But they are not looking at youand your dynamics, your systems
, your family, your background,your history and conceptualizing
it in scientific knowledge thatGod allowed us to have access
to knowledge for as a therapist,right.
So I support pastoralcounseling, right.
(37:43):
It's part of what we're sayingof in in um amongst, like many
wise counselors, their safety.
I support it.
But I think it is one unfair toto yourself to show up looking
for one thing where it doesn'texist.
If I go looking for oranges andan apple tree, is it the apple
(38:04):
tree that failed me or theorange tree that failed me?
Or is it me who tried to fitright, like a square peg in a
round hole, right?
So when you're going to apastor for pastoral counseling,
be clear what am I going tocounseling for?
But if you're looking fortherapy and you go to a pastor,
be clear that you're going toleave disappointed.
(38:27):
And it's not the pastor whofailed you.
It's not the Lord who failedyou.
You went to the wrong place forthe wrong thing.
Okay, that's one.
Two stigma how I understandstigma, especially in the
Christian community.
Stigma also points to wherethere is idolatry, because if
(38:49):
God says that there is in thewise counsel, there is safety,
seek wise counsel, count thecost before you do something.
And in the day and age that welive in, like even Luke was a
doctor and so, like the Biblealready tells us that God values
(39:13):
health and wellness and themedical and behavioral health
field, you go and say, no, youjust made yourself God over what
God said.
So stigma is actually idolatryand every idol has that.
So, but when you go to somebodywho tells you that they're
showing you where they are stilllacking knowledge, where
they're still lacking surrender,where they're still lacking
(39:34):
freedom, where they're lackingunderstanding and so but I think
we going back to what we'retalking about with authority.
I know I was raised the sameway of like anyone who's in a
position of leadership in thechurch.
It's almost like their word isinfallible.
And now I'm like, oh, you're aman just like me, called to an
office.
I respect the office, I respectthe anoint to be pursuing
(40:03):
Christ so that if this personever comes into disagreement or
in conflict with what the wordsays, that I can also be able to
parse out what they're saying.
So, yes, then there'scommunities or faith systems
like Word of Faith, faithsystems like word of faith.
Word of faith tells you confessand it's done.
(40:24):
So, meaning that now you go tosay, oh, if I'm not well, it's
because I didn't confess wellenough, but I make myself savior
, I make myself Holy Spirit in away, right, and so even the
going back to like who do youprofess Jesus to be?
Does he have power or Do mywords have power?
Because if my words have power,then I start going into works
(40:51):
without faith, right, like I'm.
Word of faith is actually notword of faith.
It is word of me thinking I amsavior, I am Holy spirit, and so
even then, like part of thestigma can be connected to like
just a false gospel of you know,if you just confess and believe
it is done.
Moses needed his father-in-lawto give him wise counsel about
(41:15):
appointing the 70 elders to helphim with his work.
So you know, like if theydidn't call it therapy, but that
was counsel, right, it wascounsel and wisdom from the lord
.
So that even now that we livein a day and age where
communities are not structuredin the same way they were in
biblical times, where there wasa structure of
(41:36):
multi-generational households,there was a structure of wisdom
passed down, there was astructure of men who sat at the
gate and the women who took onthe younger women and counseled
them and mentored them.
We don't have the samestructures always available,
especially in Westernindividualistic societies versus
collectivist cultures, and sowe have to be mindful that the
(42:00):
stigma sometimes also comes fromtrying to fit a collectivist
Bible into an individualistsociety.
But we don't have the sameparameters available for us.
So prayer works.
Prayer, one of our mostpowerful weapons.
Fasting works one of our mostpowerful weapons.
(42:20):
Amen to that, and even the Bibletalks about when, when you run
into somebody who is cold andhungry and you tell them God
bless you and go your way.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
Right, like you fail them.
In James right, it says yougive them a meal and a food and
you also tell them about.
God bless you, right.
But I don't say that you aremore of a believer and less of a
believer because you are inpoverty.
Come on, which is kind of whatwe kind of say.
It's like you're more of abeliever or less of a believer
because you're suffering fromdepression or anxiety.
(42:50):
Those things are a product of afallen world.
They're a product of having areal enemy, but they're not a
product of you not believingenough or God not loving you
enough either.
So part of stigma is alsosometimes believing in a false
gospel or truly missing theheart of God for his people and
(43:13):
then hindering people from beingable to experience the heart of
God in multiple avenues.
How many people have receivedthe heart of God at a
supermarket because the personwho was checking them out did it
as unto the Lord and was kindand patient and understanding,
because somebody paid for theirgroceries right In therapy?
Same thing you can experiencethe heart of God because your
(43:34):
clinician is coming in liketruly operating in the gift, the
anointing and the calling thatGod blessed them to be in in
order to help you understandsome of the things you don't
tell other people because it'sso painful or it's so vulnerable
and so sensitive that you'rewilling to trust them there and
they can actually speak to you.
Where was God when I wasexperiencing assault?
(43:55):
He was right there with you,right.
But also when we understandthat the person who was the
person who was causing harm itis because of their lack of
knowing who god is that theycould do that right we will
right.
And so I think, just when weunderstand like stigma is
(44:16):
connected to idolatry, it isconnected to a misconception, a
misinterpretation of the bible,is connected to uh, the person
who might be giving you thatadvice is connected to their
areas of shortcoming orignorance, or arrogance of the
ignorance.
Yeah, we still have to go tothe word for ourselves, but we
also still have to say if I hada broken leg, am I going to pray
(44:39):
over the broken leg or am Igoing to pray over it for speedy
healing and still go get a cast.
That's right, that's right, andso come get your mental health
cast.
Yes, Get your cast.
We'll pray for your speedyhealing.
We pray that God brings divinerevelation in the room right.
But that's part of the healing.
The cast is part of the healing.
It's part of the healing.
(45:00):
The medicine is part of thehealing.
So even stigma aroundmedication.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Oh my gosh.
And you know I was just talkingto someone who put their
children on medication and thepushback they got from their
family and and from their churchwas really substantial.
And she was like listen, theyare out of control.
You don't want them to come toyour house because right now
(45:27):
they're out of control and whenthey take the medication they're
much better able to get thetools they need.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's it.
You actually are stable enoughto now take on the tools and the
type of behavioralinterventions that I'm trying to
teach you, because sometimeswe're so depressed, so anxious,
so behaviorally dysregulated wecan't even hear, we can't hear
the intervention we're trying toimplement.
(45:57):
So, yeah, and you actually knowAnissa from part of like the
well, she said this one thing inpassing and I was like, oh my
gosh, kind of like how you saida sloppy agape and I was like
she was like I don't take a yesor a no, I don't take a no from
somebody who can't give me a yes.
She was like whoa.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
I have said that.
I have said that, mm-hmm.
I have said that.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
I have said that this person who cannot come and help
me with my children can alsonot tell me not to put them on
medication.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
That's right.
Have no opinion where you haveno responsibility.
You have no opinion where youhave no responsibility.
She's getting ready to writethis down again.
But have no opinion where youhave no responsibility, and that
goes not only for someoneelse's mental health if you're
not part of their solution.
People's marriages oh, amen,wall, um, and I I I think I did
(46:56):
a podcast on that y'all, evenwith celebrities, stop talking
about other people's marriagesand relationships if you have no
authority.
If father hasn't called you tointercede, hush your mouth.
And if he did call you tointercede, he probably also gave
you a gag order on that too,excuse me, okay.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
You have no responsibility and you have an
opinion can also be gossip,right, or it can be trying to to
behave like the Holy spirit insomebody else's life and that's
blasphemous to the Holy Spirit,right, and like we really have
to be mindful that everything wedo is either unto the Lord or
unto the kingdom of darkness.
(47:33):
There is no in between.
There's no gray.
If it's not glorifying the Lord, it is glorifying the enemy.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (47:41):
And so, like exactly what you're saying of like, I'm
not going to have an opinionwhere I don't have
responsibility, but I'm going tohave intercession.
God, if this is the right thing, let it work.
Help my friend who's strugglingwith your children, give them
wisdom, give them access toresources, a community, let a
random person on the train justbe moved to you know, be grieved
(48:01):
in their heart for them, etcetera.
Right, intercede, because I'malso interceding when I'm like
God.
I don't want to do um, likethis is this, is this?
Feels like it's beyond myself,and one of the best things that
God ever told me, um, or justeven the word ever told me, is
by this they shall know you'remy disciples, by all your love.
(48:21):
The moment I love somebody andjust say, wow, listening to what
you just told me overwhelms me.
I can't imagine what living itmeans.
Sometimes the person needed tohear wow just the validation wow
all they needed to hear.
Because sometimes I'm like,what intervention, what
worksheet you know, what theory,what you know psychodynamic,
(48:42):
like concept?
What distinction can I givethem?
It's like I'm so grateful that,even after all the craziness of
this week, that you decided toshow up today, because even
sometimes I pause, I'm like howdo you want to use today?
How does it best serve youtoday?
Because I don't feel like wecan dive into some of the harder
things because your week hasalready been full of that.
And so how do we find rest here?
(49:03):
Because even therapy can justbe Sabbath.
Come on Sabbath, like God didnot Sabbath because he was tired
.
He Sabbath because he createdthe world to operate between
work and rest.
And so sometimes, like therapycan be the only Sabbath somebody
gets.
It's like let's utilize it inthat way.
And so go back to stigma.
That was the original question.
(49:24):
Sometimes listening to people'sopinions continues to keep you
out of order with the Lord, indisobedience to the Lord, and so
we really have to be mindful ofwhose voice do we glorify above
God's voice, and if it is ourown, we need to lay it down.
If it's our family member, layit down.
(49:44):
If it is a spiritual leader,pastor, whomever lay it down,
because if it's not the voice ofthe Lord that is at the helm of
your life, you areautomatically going to be
steered in the wrong direction.
And so I would say, like stigma, we have the choice to accept
or reject advice, and so ifsomebody is like I don't know if
(50:05):
you should have your kids onmedication, thank you for
letting me know.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
Thank you for sharing .
That's one of my favorite.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
I'm going to do nothing, you know usually I just
give that resting.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
My daughter calls it resting profit.
Face right, I just oh.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Usually I just give that resting.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
My daughter calls it resting prophet face right.
I just Bianca has that, Thankyou.
Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
So much but I'm just going to be quiet.
But exactly and even that partof like not taking things
personally, when somebody givesyou advice, they've shown you
their heart.
Speaker 1 (50:42):
That's it.
You know you're coming back tothe show, right, that's it.
You know you're coming back tothe show, right, thank you.
You know you have to come back.
First of all, you preached awhole sermon.
I mean we can pass the plateand give the benediction, give
the invitation for everybody tocome to Christ today, because
you did everything from soup tonuts, ma'am, and I am loving
every single minute.
(51:02):
You have got to come back, somake us a promise You'll come
back.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
I will.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
Okay, cause we're going to have you back.
We're definitely going to haveyou back because this I think
this is going to be one of themost impactful shows, because it
is not just about okay, youknow.
I mean I could have done a showabout how to select a therapist
.
I could have done it with thework that I've done outside of
this.
I could have done that.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
Especially with your sleeping habits.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
But you brought things that I have never in all
of the years that I've beendoing this work.
You've brought things to bearthat I've never even heard
talked about in therapeuticcircles, right, and the irony is
that, well, we'll have to talkoffline about some of this stuff
(51:53):
, but when you come back again,I'm I just I can't even wait.
I am so excited.
To me, this is one of the mostimpactful and one of the best
ever.
To me, this is one of the mostimpactful and one of the best
ever, and I know that father isgoing to take it far and wide,
because his people are hurtingand that is not his heart.
And also, the times that we areliving in, people have got to
(52:14):
be mentally healthy and prepared, because I'm telling you what
is coming.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
The worst is coming.
Speaker 1 (52:23):
Yeah, all of this until now was just a warmup, but
all of now.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
God's mercy in reminding us that he's still on
the throne.
But to listen.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yes, listen, yes, yes .
And he said if you grow wearywith the footmen, what do they
show up with?
Horses?
Like what?
Right, this was the practice,because this this up until now,
he was like this is this was meaddressing the stuff, addressing
the stuff that we've beenavoiding, and I'm going to say
(53:12):
this in closing, and then, ofcourse, I want your closing
remarks.
What we don't address willsooner or later address us.
Anything that we don't dealwith is going to deal with us.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (53:29):
That is my favorite thing Like when you don't master
it will master you.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
And because I think we're living in a dispensation
of time we don't have 40 yearsfor the backside of the desert
to learn lessons, right,everything has been sped up
right, and then we add AI to it,so it exponentially.
Oh, we can't even go there.
If I went there today, if Icould walk that dog today.
But I think that we are livingin a dispensation of time where
(53:55):
things are so rapidly changingand things are happening so fast
.
The word says one thing afteranother, one thing on the heels
of another, right that thereaper would overtake the sower
Before you can even stop tothink about something or get
something fully in place.
You have to have your mentalcapacity just so that you have
(54:16):
the margin in your being to beable to do the things that God
is calling you to do, to be ableto hear being to be able to do
the things that God is callingyou to do, to be able to hear.
Like you said, you can't evenhear what to do next, because
you're still dealing with whathappened to you 20 years ago.
Oh, my Lord, I wish somebodyhad told me.
I wish somebody had told me,but now that I know, now that.
(54:36):
We know we can't.
I know, and not only that, wehave to tell it far and wide, we
have to.
So a few things.
Number one I am going to putyour contact info in the show
notes, because everybody needsBernie, everybody needs Jesus.
Let me be clear Everybody needsJesus first, everybody needs
Jesus first.
But Bernie has Jesus, the realJesus, the crucified, risen and
(55:00):
coming again.
Jesus, amen, amen.
Just in case any of y'all aredoubting the real Jesus, we
settled that.
We settled that.
We settled that now, and alsoI'm going to put the link to
your book.
Can you please tell us what isthe name of your book?
I happen to have it right hereplease pull it up for me I wish
(55:21):
I know I had, but I do kindlestuff.
So, yeah, I had to do thatbecause my books I had so many
they were falling off theshelves.
Let me see.
Speaker 2 (55:31):
So tell us, tell us a little bit about your book as
we wrap up around our worth andpurpose in the Lord, and that
God does delight in us, and soit just walks us through Bible
scripture, prayer excerpts andstories around, chaining towards
the heart of God, towards usLike.
(55:51):
I always joke that I'm arecovering perfectionist, but
it's because I truly didn'tunderstand who I was as a
daughter of the living.
God, the King of heaven andearth.
And so the scripture is meant towalk us through that, to
understand who God is and thenwho we are in response to him
and his word.
That he told us, that he lovesus enough to reveal himself to
us and his heart towards us.
(56:12):
And whether we accept it or not, it is true.
Hopefully the book gets you towalk through acceptance that you
do serve a God who has loved uswith an everlasting love, that
he's not scrambling up there tofigure out all the things you
ever did or didn't do for hisglory and at any point he is
waiting.
He's drawing you with love andkindness towards him.
(56:32):
So it's short and sweet and tothe point and, you know, I hope
it is a jumpstart for people todive more into the word, because
the more you know who theauthor is, the more you want to
know about his writing, and so Ihope that the book helps you to
know about God's love anddelight in his word.
And you were birthed from hisword, and so he did like to keep
(56:54):
reading his word and keepdelighting in it and learning
more about him and who you are.
Speaker 1 (56:58):
Oh my goodness.
So God.
Be all the glory that.
That the description of thebook.
You do everything with suchpassion.
The description of the bookjust blessed my whole soul.
So thank you so much, my love,oh my gosh y'all.
So I know a book sale is aboutto blow up because every one of
us needs that book and I lovewhat you said.
I introduced myself.
I am the daughter of the mosthigh God, the ruler and
(57:25):
possessor of heaven and earth.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
I am she, I am she, so to him be all the glory, the
honor and the praise.
Okay, and I know I'm God'sfavorite because in BC and
Brooklyn streets I find parking.
You understand, I find parking.
Speaker 1 (57:35):
Oh, oh, that's serious.
The Lord loves me.
Oh, that's serious.
See, okay, I'm just going tosay this.
I know I will tell you what'sreally interesting.
This podcast has been heard in24 countries.
There's two countries I didn'teven know existed and I had to
do a little geography for myself.
Right, I had to check out thegeography for myself, but this
(57:58):
is heard all around the world.
So for some of you, you willnot get the concept of trying to
park in Brooklyn.
Trying to park in Brooklyn islike trying to nail jello to a
wall.
I don't even know how toexplain that.
The fact that you said that youget parking because I thought
you were going to park in theseBrooklyn streets and I'm safe,
but when you said parking, ohsee, that's favor.
(58:22):
No, that's real favor, favor,yeah, that's evidence of a real
godly favor.
Because that parking, god wholets me?
Yeah, yeah, I've gone tobrooklyn and had a park in
queens.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
That's no joke I have my car a 20 minute walk away,
because that's the best I couldfind I've done that.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
I've parked, I've parked in a place and took an
Uber Right Because I had to park.
So far, I have parked and takenthe bus, I have parked and
taken the train, and not becauseI was lazy, but because I was
literally in a different part ofthe county.
Speaker 2 (58:55):
You just couldn't find it.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
And you just couldn't find the parking.
And then you know people double, triple park, so we won't even
talk about that, Right?
So then you park your car andyou can't get it back out.
Speaker 2 (59:03):
So no, you have to wait for the person to come down
.
Speaker 1 (59:06):
Yes, so yes, this woman is walking in divine favor
.
I'm telling you, I could talkto you all day long, but you
have promised us, you promisedus that you're going to come
back to that.
I'm holding you to that, andwhat I'm going to ask everyone
is if you have questions.
If you have questions, emailyour questions.
(59:28):
I'm going to put a link in theshow notes for you to do that,
so that the next time Berniecomes on, if you have any
questions, we can get thoseanswered for you or at least
point you to a resource.
That would be good for you.
All right, all right, y'all.
Until next time, be wonderfullyblessed.
This is the position podcast.
(59:48):
Signing out.
Have a great day.
Bye now.
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