To celebrate the end of 2023, Ellen and Tish are resharing the top episodes of the year - ICMI (in case you missed it). Today we revisit Episode 64 on the Just Let Them Theory - which is something Tish and Ellen both put into place in a BIG WAY in 2023 and consider it one if the best midlife skills they learned this year!
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Have you ever felt exhausted by the endless cycle of trying to control the outcomes of those around you? Join us as we delve into the 'Just Let Them Theory', a liberating perspective coined by the phenomenal Mel Robbins. Through candid discussions on the challenges of changing entrenched behaviors and finding peace in personal autonomy, this episode is an invitation to a more fulfilling way of engaging with the world.
In this episode, we unravel the philosophy of allowing people to be themselves, highlighting its profound implications for your emotional peace and relationships. We delve into our personal experiences, sharing how we've learned to trust and respect our loved ones' autonomy. We also venture into the realm of parenting, discussing the profound impact of allowing our children the freedom to fail, learn, and grow from their experiences.
Our conversation takes a deep dive into the power of acceptance and the significance of individuality in relationships. We discuss the harmful effects of trying to change a loved one and how jealousy, a form of control, can erode relationships.
Listen as we explore how letting people pursue their happiness can enhance love in relationships, even if it means risking failure. We also shed light on the importance of empathy and the freedom to express emotions. This is an episode you won't want to miss!
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Website: www.thepositivelymidlifepodcast.com
Email: postivelymidlifepod@gmail.com
Website: www.thepositivelymidlifepodcast.com
Email: postivelymidlifepod@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Tish, have you heard about the Just Let them Theory?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You mean the one from Mel Robbins, right?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yes, exactly, it's simple and powerful, like most
things in life.
You know, I found they aren'trocket science, but this one's
very liberating.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, I know I've heard about it, but I'm really
not that sure I reallycompletely understand how it
works.
So I love that we're going totalk about the Just Let them
Theory today.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
That's right.
Mel shares that we spend somuch time and energy getting
emotionally worked up aboutthings that are totally out of
and beyond our control.
So the theory is about stoppingto try and make people do what
you or me want them to do, and Iknow I do this all the time,
(00:56):
tish.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I know they're amazing listeners who aren't
really familiar with Mel.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I love how we're on a first name basis with her Tish
Kind of like Brene, we're alsoon a first name basis with Brene
.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Exactly, they're just our girl tribe, but these are
women.
These are such relatable womenand I think that's why we feel
so connected to them.
Hopefully our listeners feelthe same about us.
But yes, so Mel Robbins is anAmerican podcast host.
She's an author, a motivationalspeaker and a former lawyer,
(01:34):
and what I love about her is sheis just so real and she gives
very clear, simple messages.
It's not super complex things.
She's very simple and clearabout how to make your life
better.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You know that's right , and I believe she uses all of
these things in her life as well, and she even talks about that.
Her podcast is one of, if notthe most popular podcast in the
world right now and we'll put alink to her website and her
podcast in the show notes ifanybody wants to learn more
about Mel Robbins.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So, alan, you know, to me it's so draining of my
energy when I try and controlhow someone else responds to
things, and this idea of justlet them sounds so free, like a
breath of fresh air to me.
So let's dive in, because Iwant to know more, because I
(02:37):
need to know more.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I hear you, Tish.
I've been practicing saying justlet them in my head and out
loud as we got ready for thisepisode and it sure rolls off
the tongue.
But putting this into practice,I don't think it's going to be
as easy for you and me.
Old habits are difficult tochange, but we can all use a
technique for this.
(03:00):
And control and wanting tocontrol things leads to
unhappiness, and you know that'swhat we're here for on this
podcast is to grow at midlife,to change, to make things better
, to become aware and we bothknow awareness is the first step
in making changes.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
You know, I'm really looking forward to this one.
I feel like we are about tohave more of those midlife
growing pains right, ellen, Ifeel like I have grown so much,
like lately, going through allthese exercises in our podcast,
I think I've grown as much aswhen, maybe during my teenage
(03:41):
years.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I agree, I definitely agree.
You and I go through everythingwe talk about.
So today we're going to talkabout just let them in so much
more.
But you know, I love this partof the show.
I say that every week.
Let's get to our weeklyobsessions.
What do you got from you fish?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Okay, so I have, you know, being the summertime and
being I've been out in the sunquite a bit and stuff like that.
So Hawaiian Tropic has thisamazing after sun body butter
called exotic coconut, and I'msorry, the smell of Hawaiian
(04:22):
Tropic just sends me back to myteen years, hanging out at the
beach bars on Lake Erie, it'sjust south of Buffalo, with my
girl tribe.
So give me some Hawaiian Tropicexotic body bar body butter.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Oh, my God, say that five times, fast you know it
does remind me also of ussitting out on reflective
blankets in college to get ourtams as well, right.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Is this something about the Hawaiian Tropic scent?
It just yeah, just takes meright back.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I love anything .
Coconut Including a drink,including a drink.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Exactly, exactly.
But Ellen, what about you?
What is your obsession for thisweek?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
You know, my obsession is this product called
O-S-E I think that's how youpronounce it.
It's O-S-E-A, and they make aproduct called an ocean cleanser
and it really is super creamy.
It feels like you're washingyour face with the ocean.
(05:35):
It has seaweed in it and Ithink what's great is that it
has no sulfates, battleates,parabens, petrochemicals,
mineral oil, silicon or talc allthose bad things that I know.
She talked to us about a fewweeks ago, so I think this
(05:55):
product is pretty good from thatstandpoint.
But it just feels somoisturizing.
My skin at midlife is dry andit just is a miracle.
So the O-S-E Ocean Cleanser ismy obsession.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh, that sounds really good yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, and it's not too expensive.
You know it's a little moreexpensive than something you
might find at you know CVS, butthings at CVS are the same it's
$18.
So I think people can splurge.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, I think that's a doable luxury.
Okay, I like that.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
All right Links to both of these in our show notes.
But let's jump right back intothe just let them theory tissue
when you quote unquote.
Just let them do whatever it isthey want to do.
You gain emotional peace.
You gain a better relationshipwith those people in your life
that you care about.
(06:52):
I mean, how good does peacesound?
Mel Robin suggests right.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Does that sound good?
Speaker 1 (06:59):
No drama.
Mama Mel suggests the way totap into this is to let people
be themselves and not try andcontrol them.
Does that sound simple?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Deceptively simple, I think.
But let's start with the mostbasic reason that somebody would
want to control others, Likewhy would even someone want to
control someone else?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, I feel some scientific research, or just
some research, or a stat comingon tish right.
What do you got?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
here Exactly exactly.
So this comes from PsychCentraland it states that a person
with a controlling personalityis driven by high levels of
anxiety to feel safe.
So, through their need forcontrol, they might be
(07:50):
unconsciously feeling okay, butthis creates this anxiety that
can create this strong desire tocontrol their surroundings and
especially control other people,and this helps to keep a sense
of order for them.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I can relate to that completely and I think it's
meaningful for us to start withthis tish right.
Why do we or others want tocontrol situations or people?
I am malstated that.
It's like an alarm bell thatgoes off in our head for our
anxiety, and I've realized herein midlife that I have anxiety
(08:31):
and possibly maybe just a teeny,weeny, small bit controlling,
under the guise of this midlifewisdom that I have.
So we've touched that thistheory is about letting go of
control and letting people dowhat they will do, and Mal had a
(08:53):
really good way that sheequated this that when we have
stress or anxiety, it triggerssomething in us, and she said
it's like rowing a boat upstreamagainst a current.
It's exhausting, it's pointless, it's futile, you'll never get
there.
And would it just let themtheory?
You stop rowing upstream, youturn it around and the boat goes
(09:15):
with the flow.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I love that image.
And Mal makes this huge promisethat this simple philosophy
will change your life.
So turning from controllingeverything and everyone, but
rather to let that current takeyou where it's going to go
anyway, because the control isso exhausting and by letting go
(09:44):
of that you are going to begetting back your energy and you
can spend that energy onyourself.
And she even says that her kidsare using this philosophy.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
They're using it on her, which I think is really
funny right.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Exactly so.
I visualize myself fightingagainst this current.
Like Mal suggests for us tounderstand this theory, you can
really feel like the exhaustionof trying to paddle upstream,
and the thing is it doesn'tcreate more control.
You actually feel less control.
(10:25):
But, as Mal says, when you takeyour hands off the oars and the
oar turns around and goesdownstream, floating with how
things are going to go, that'swhen it becomes easy, when you
just go with it.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Right, right, and instead of fighting, you create
this piece for yourself.
I have to say, obviously, thisis where I'm sure the phrase
going with the flow came fromRight Tish.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I guess so yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I know Well Tish, I admitted to being a teeny weeny
bit of a control freak.
Do you catch yourselfcontrolling people, or maybe
your kids?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well see, here's the thing you know when we were new
moms we have to controleverything that our kids did,
right?
Because, heaven forbid they'dstick in their fingers and light
sock If not right.
So but I think I have gottenbetter, as my kids have gotten
older, to start letting themchoose their own path, even when
(11:31):
I didn't agree.
Now I will give them my opinion, but I also let them know that
they need to make their ownchoices.
I had this recently with mydaughter.
Her and her boyfriend arethinking of moving to a town
about an hour away and they'rein this situation where his
(11:51):
employer is helping to pay fortheir rental home and they're
going to walk away from that tobuy a home you know away.
And I think it's crazy and Iwanted to like jump in and I
thought I'm going to tell themmy thoughts and then I ended it
with but you know what you guysare so like financially
(12:12):
responsible and responsibleabout everything.
I'm going to trust that you'regoing to do what's right for you
.
And I love that it was aboutrespecting them.
You know they I'm putting moreweight on the financial help
they're getting, but they'reputting more weight, I think, on
(12:34):
their home ownership.
Yeah, Home ownership.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Home ownership.
You know, Tish, bravo right.
They asked for your opinion,you gave it, but you told them
no, they didn't ask, they didn'task.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Oh, they didn't ask, oh, okay, they didn't ask, they
didn't ask, okay.
But but I very carefully said,hey, these are my thoughts,
because I don't want to comeback, have them come back later
and say, oh, we didn't think ofthat, these are my thoughts.
I know what you guys are tryingto do or whatever, and I know
(13:07):
and I said, I know you're goingto pick the right choice for you
all.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That's great and I learned so much from your
parenting.
Tish, you're years ahead of mewith your kids and I do catch
myself a lot more, especiallywith my children, and I try and
stop it.
I have an example that happenedduring the pandemic.
Everybody here in Marin theboys, they just grew their hair
(13:31):
long.
I mean, it looks like in 1975to me the whole time I was
waiting for, you know, bikeswith banana seats and sissy cars
.
But one of my kids decided tokeep the wrong hair and it has
created this huge push pullbetween us.
I like shorter hair.
I know that it's somethinghe'll eventually change, but the
(13:54):
hair just kept growing and it'scurly and it's gotten bigger
and bigger and bigger.
I even at one point tried tobargain an earring.
You feel it?
You said you wanted an earring,like get a haircut.
Well, that didn't happen.
I mean this is a ridiculousexample, but this is how we want
to be in other people'sbusiness and control.
(14:17):
He is 19.
It is not my business.
I have learned to step away.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Okay, and here's the thing, alan.
What if you just let him havelong hair?
I think you're trying tocontrol more than just his hair.
Maybe it's something about whatthe long hair means, or the
image or whatever.
It's not really the hair, it'sreally what the you know.
(14:44):
So you've caught yourself nowtrying to control this.
And what would happen If youjust said let him have long hair
.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, well, I am here .
I have surrendered.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I have realized.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I mean, this has been a couple years, though, but
this hit home.
You know this is powerful.
It's time for me to let go.
He is on his path.
He is a great kid, you know.
Just let him right here.
Done, Mike, drop there.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Okay, we'll see if we revisit that one.
Yes, we will revisit this one.
So I don't know.
I have always felt that peoplewho try and control you, it's
really more about them notfeeling in control of their own
life, and If they focus on youand controlling you, it makes
(15:42):
them feel like they'recontrolling something.
Yes, and, like I said, itbecomes very tricky with
parenting, because At one pointwe did have to control
everything.
Yeah, then, yeah, we had tostart letting go Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It is not, but it works with parents, with your
husband, wife, your partner atwork, in Friendships.
This is true and true and trueacross the board.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, and you know what, in midlife I want my focus
to be more within me, gettinggood with what I want and what's
important to me.
And that's not to say that it'sa selfish focus, but just
worrying about being the bestperson I can be, controlling the
(16:37):
only happiness that I cancontrol, which is my own.
Okay, there is just so muchdrama surrounding worrying about
what others think and how theymight respond.
I'm said it's just too drainingand I'm done with it.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I Fully agree.
It is beyond time here atmidlife to stop focusing on what
others you're doing, because weknow we can't control it anyway
.
Right, I am with you.
I want peace and I want tospend my time Focusing on things
that matter time and energy.
I always feel like it's nottime in midlife, it's energy.
(17:17):
It's becoming a rare commoditythat energy we love that energy,
and this reminds me ofsomething I learned by going to
Alan on, and I know this is true.
In a A2, they have this phrasecalled keeping your own side of
the street clean.
When you want to go tellsomeone what they should be
doing and how they should bedoing it, what you really need
(17:37):
to do is come back to yourselfand work on yourself, and I
think this is something thateveryone can benefit from.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
You know, and probably why you're hearing it
in an, in an Alan on meeting,because there's a great example
of where you Were very goodreasons.
You want to control somebodynot drinking because it's so
detrimental to them, right, yes,yes, but ultimately you can't
control that.
You know.
(18:09):
Yeah, and we're gonna.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
We're gonna talk about that a little later on too
, but you hit it spot-on, tish.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So it sounds to me like we are right back talking
about boundaries again.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Alan, we're back there again, right we we are we
are.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But, but it's really with a different twist this time
, and instead of theconfrontation, we stop trying to
make others do something and westart just reacting differently
, that's all.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
It's true and, for me , really understanding that this
control is a response toanxiety Hits home, being aware
when it happens and just using Ican't just let them a mantra,
not a theory in a way becauseyou know, whenever you say it,
like I was saying you, you know,just let them, just let them,
(19:04):
even if you have to say it outloud, right, it is what puts
that pause there.
It helps you stop Spinning downeven further and deeper into
control.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So, when you're walking down the street with
your son and you go by ahairdresser and Instead of like
grabbing his arm and you'regonna say, now, we also say,
(19:36):
though, there are times that youshouldn't put this theory into
action, and I think this issuper important, because these
definitely include times wherethere's danger or there's
bullying.
Okay, and it's like a greatexample would be you don't let
somebody get behind the wheel ifyou know they've been drinking,
(19:56):
and that is not.
That is not the time to sayjust let them know, because
that's danger, right.
We don't want to say just letthem as we stand by and watch
somebody be harassed ordiscriminated against, right?
This is that is a step up andspeak up moment.
(20:16):
This is not a we'll just letthem.
There's a difference here, right, and I think we can all realize
when we need to be present andinvolved and when we need to
start saying just let them.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I agree 100% here, Tish.
I mean you know, you have toknow when you need to take
action, and those are situations, danger, bullying,
discrimination.
All of those need you, as yousaid, to stand up and speak up.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, so let's look at four ways to use this theory.
Okay, so now that we kind ofknow what it is, let's give some
practicality behind this.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yes, I think we both have some situations we can
share here.
All right, the first one isbeing left out.
This is so common.
It's common at any age.
It hurts, still at midlife, andwe can react to it and it
doesn't feel good and it is atrigger, I think, for us to try
(21:26):
and control the situation.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, being left out of a friend situation like, say,
going to a concert or goingdancing or even just going away
from the weekend yeah, that it'shard.
That's a hard moment.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Tricky territory, but have you ever been left out?
Because you're single, TishLeft out.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
You know I have, but over the years I've tended more
to shy away from a lot of couplesituations, so I almost
preferred being left out,because there's nothing worse
than, yeah, I'll go to that NewYear's Eve party with all the
(22:12):
couples.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I just don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
But I totally get that when you're the one left
out, it's hard not to feel thosefeelings.
It definitely is, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It is.
I have as well in a couple ofsituations.
One friend said, would you wantto come?
And I was like, no, but thankyou for asking.
And another situation I wasn'tasked but I heard about it after
and you know, just let them.
Who cares?
Like you were saying, these arenot situations that were going
(22:48):
to be great for me anyway.
Who wants to be the only singleat a couple's dinner party in
New Year's Eve?
I'm totally with you.
But you know I've been left outtoo, with just friends.
There was a time where somefriends went to hear some music
together.
I found out after I wasn'tinvited and I was sad.
But I quickly thought well, Idon't want to invite everybody
(23:12):
every time.
Sometimes I want to go outone-on-one, sometimes I want to
do something solo.
Right, we're not invited toeverything.
And I think if you are feelinghurt, you've got to examine, you
know, do you need to planthings or you somebody who has
(23:32):
really put time and effort intoyour friendships?
Right, take it again, take itback in, think about it and just
let them organize somethingelse, right?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think this one's pretty straightforward, but it's
just to remember.
Not everything is really aboutyou.
Maybe you were excluded becausethat person needed to have a
one-on-one conversation withsomebody.
You don't know the extenuatingcircumstances, and I always
(24:02):
believe having diverse groups offriends is always a positive
thing too, because noteverything is for you, you know
that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I mean, I have heard of someone being upset that some
friends were going on a tripand they really only wanted four
, because four is a hotel room,four is an easier taxi or Uber
or rental car, right, and theyfelt like four was just better.
It's easier to navigate, youknow so a lot of times it's not
about you.
It could be about the situation, right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
But my advice would be to take a breath, kind of get
in this mindset of just letthem and just go with that.
Yeah, Don't make everythinginto this big personal assault
and just let them.
And you know, in a day or twoit's really not that big a deal.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's not, it's not.
And again, that mantra takesyou to a different place.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So a second example is the let people fail.
Okay, so here and this may be alot with our kids, you know,
our kids or younger people, butit could be with friends as well
is, you know, to give peoplethe room to grow, the chance to
(25:27):
learn and take personalresponsibility and to understand
that every choice isn't, youknow, always going to be perfect
or whatever.
But it's okay to let,especially with kids, let your
kids fail.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Let them have that opportunity to pick themselves
up, move on, come back fromstuff.
Those are the lessons thatreally stick with us through our
.
You know it wasn't the easytime.
We remember it's the gettingthrough the hard time and if
you're constantly interveningand hovering and taking care of
(26:10):
and you're not giving them thatopportunity to fail, to regroup
and then to succeed, you'rerobbing them of that.
You are.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And I love this, this kind of idea that you need the
thing of the consequences, and Iknow that's with with children,
but even at work, if you don'tdo something, you know and you
have somebody working for you.
Sometimes you got to let themfail right and understand the
consequences.
I know for me this is whereaddiction is a big one here.
(26:44):
And I know, you know this.
At one point I tried so hard toget someone in my life sober.
They weren't ready.
I had an interventionist, arehab, I mean.
It all failed miserably.
That person did not want myhealth.
I did not understand thisconcept of just let them and I
(27:05):
was trying to control the entiresituation.
And so if I had understood thisat this point in my, at that
point in my life, it would havebeen a lot easier.
And I think this is one of thethe prime examples of let people
fail.
I could have given this personthe room to grow and to take
(27:27):
this on on their own, and Ididn't, and it was a tough
lesson to learn.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You know, every time you step in and maybe
potentially make a problem goaway, you do prevent that person
from growing right.
Yep, you stop being a peoplepleaser or a rainmaker.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yes, no.
I like both of those things andI remember Brandon, our guest
on on some big midlifetransitions.
He said growth, growth ishappens in the hard times.
Yes, you know it happens in thehard times, and I think that's
so true here, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I wanted to, I, I, I just want to round back on that.
You know there's there's this,this whole theory of helicopter
parents, right, and, and they'reconstantly hovering and
hovering and making sureeverything it's good and perfect
and what.
These kids do not know what todo in crisis because there's
(28:37):
nobody hovering there to make itall go away.
So you know, it's this, and Iknow it's one of the hardest
things to do to sit and watchyour child struggle, but it's
one of the best things you cando, and the younger you allow
them to do that, the more skillsthey learn.
(28:58):
So when the stakes get higherand higher, as they do, when we
get older and older, they have atoolbox.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, we always talk about the toolbox and adding to
the toolbox.
Now I was going to talk aboutthe situation with my son and
his dorm room.
It doesn't really belong inthis part of the podcast, but I
think it's interesting that itcame up right, because Will, my
(29:29):
youngest son I think we'vetalked about him quite a bit is
going away to college and wewent and looked at the school
and he showed me where his dormwas and it was not the dorm I
would have picked.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So you have a situation where Will's going to
be going off to college, right,yes, and he had to pick his own
dorm room.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Did you let him just pick it?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Well, I did.
Well, that depends, tish, onhow you say it.
I, like you, added my opinionto the dorm he picked, which I
would have picked something in adifferent location.
And he said, nope, I'm happywith my dorm.
(30:19):
And I went back again to tryand say, well, what about this?
Maybe you know when it'sraining, whatever.
And then I just realized, it'strue, I had this epiphany of
just let him he's happy, why doI want to control where his dorm
is Like?
(30:40):
It was so hard for me.
But this theory, this mantra,it took me three times.
Granted, right, I went backtwice, but on the third time it
was like it hit me, like justlet him he's happy, why am I
getting it?
Like, why, why?
(31:02):
Why as well, I can say here, soyou know this, this theory, I
mean it is really helpful.
I felt like I would have goneback again had I not had it.
What I'd like to do is to notgo at all right, Just accept,
just let him.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Well, here's the thing we're not going to make
all these changes overnight.
We know that these are going tobe things that we need to
practice.
But I have got to give you bigprops on that one, because I
think Ellen of a year ago wouldhave just kept going and going
until she convinced him.
But you are very different fromWill, you know Will is he's
(31:46):
very social in a lot of ways,but he also likes his quiet time
.
So a dorm, sort of removed, isprobably going to be the best
for him, so everybody won't beat his room Exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I mean.
So many reasons why it it is.
So, yeah, and thanks Tish, I dofeel like I've grown in the
last year, and here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think your intentions were good and that's
the thing I think people need tounderstand.
All of these contri tryingsomebody can try to control
isn't because they have badintentions all the time.
Sometimes it is, but a lot oftimes it's not.
We might have well intentions,well it doesn't.
It doesn't change the fact thatthey need, he needs to pick his
(32:37):
own space.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yes, and why do?
I think I always know betterwith this midlife wisdom, and I
think that's where I really haveto go back to my side of the
street and work on that aspectof it.
So you know what we have.
The third way, and this is tolet people be themselves, who
(33:03):
they are and who they're not.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Say that again, because that's a powerful thing.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
You know it is.
It's just like letting my sonhave his long hair.
He is who he is.
I think there's this wholeconcept of trying to change
people, right?
Yes, and I think that's whatthis is about.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, we need to stop doing this and let them be
themselves, right?
Mm, hmm.
And Mel asks are you in therelationship with truly who they
are?
It's a powerful.
Are you in the relationshipwith this person, whether it's a
parent, child, whether it's afriend, whether it's a lover,
(33:49):
whatever it is, are you reallyin the relationship with truly
who they are?
Let them be who they are.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
This is a huge one for women, I think, in dating,
especially in choosing a partner, and there's this thing of you
don't date a guy for hispotential, don't have a friend
for their potential either.
Don't try and change people,just let them be.
I think we see potential inpeople and want to have the
(34:23):
relationship with a potentialperson, not with a real person,
that dating people for theirpotential is huge at midlife.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Here's the thing If they've gotten to this point in
their life at a certain way, wereally have some balls thinking
we're going to change it.
Come on, this is crazy.
But not saying, well, if hejust did this or he just changed
(34:55):
that, I mean, come on, we'repretty baked into who we're
going to be at this age.
I think this is one of theprime, prime times to say just
let them.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I agree.
I mean, how angry would we beif some guy came and was like
you know what?
I think you got a lot ofpotential.
But I don't really like how youare now, I think you got a lot
of potential to be even better.
Boom, they'd be at the door.
I mean, here's one thing and Iknow I mentioned this before
(35:30):
I've learned that houses arefixer upper.
Men, friends, people, they arenot.
You need to like people as theyare not for what they could be
with a little bit of ourzhuzhing, you know, kids you
zhuzh a lot in your house right,you're zhuzhing and you're
moving pillows.
Forget that shit.
You better like people for whothey are and you make good
(35:55):
choices based on what you need,not what you think this person
can become.
I think this is a great point.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Ellen, I absolutely love that.
You know, whether it's the kids, the parents, the in-laws, the
friends, be in a relationshipwhere who they are right now, at
that moment, and just be goodwith that.
You know, jealousy right itselfis a way to control and I see
(36:27):
this all the time, you know,truly.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, I see it too, Tish, and I think this is a
great point to add here, becausejealousy is just another
attempt to control people,whether it's your partners
playing golf or you know, yoursister's going out with other
friends, or someone spending toomuch time reading, too much
time playing pickleball right.
(36:51):
Not doing the things we wantthem to do.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
You know this kind of happens because I think some
people feel threatened.
You know and you know they'reseeking out love and acceptance.
But jealousy to me it justbackfires on you and in that
attempt to show your extra loveby being extra jealous or
(37:20):
something you know it's, youknow it's, to me it lessens it's
that need to control, shows theinsecurity of your feelings and
it really to me shows less love, less respect.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
You know 100%.
I agree with that.
When you allow people to dowhat they want to do, what makes
them happy, you become presentand your relationships become
deeper and you bring more lovein.
I know this soundscounterintuitive, in some ways
right, but it's like, even ifyou're uncomfortable with it, if
(38:00):
you do that, it brings the loveyou want.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Right.
So I mean and that's not to saythat you just let anyone do
whatever you know- Right, thanks, you have that choice to walk
away, turn and walk away, youknow.
But jealousy itself is justtoxic, you know it's.
It is just the opposite of justlet them.
Jealousy is that ultimatecontrol, and we need to support
(38:27):
people to do what makes themhappy without the control.
It's that.
What is that line?
You know, when you lovesomething, set it free.
If it comes back to you, it'syours, if it doesn't, it never
was.
Same thing, the same thing.
You know you don't need thattoxic jealousy to show your love
(38:50):
and your control over somebody.
You know, let them be who theyare.
If they're meant to stay withyou, they will stay with you.
If they want to be faithful toyou, they'll be faithful to you,
and if they don't, no amount ofjealousy is going to keep
things intact.
There's, no, it's a falsecontrol.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I 100% agree, and I'm gonna quote Ding here and say
free, free, set them free.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
It is.
It's the other mantra, otherthan just let them.
I think that's equally aspowerful.
So I've learned a lot about howmuch time, energy and effort
I've been spending trying tocontrol things here.
So those are my two mantrasTish.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
And something that is perfect for midlife is.
I can create a better flow inmy own life, if I can use this
just let them as a pause tothinking about what I'm really
doing and where my motivationsare, and I'm going to use this
(40:02):
just let them as kind of aself-check.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, I like that, I like that.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
You know, just let them.
Hey, if it's really thatimportant that I maybe can't let
go, you can go back later, butinitially go with the, just let
them.
So I know we've been going on,but I want to get to the fourth
way that we can use this justlet people have their emotions
(40:30):
and feelings.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You know we have talked about this time and time
again.
So if someone's upset, justlisten.
Let them have their feelings.
Don't try and change them ornegate them.
We just talked about this toshare our Barbie episode.
How hard it is for us to listenwithout adding on, without,
(40:55):
maybe, if we're upset, defendingour point of view or telling
them why they're wrong.
So let people have theiremotions and opinions, just let
them.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Correct, I think so many times.
You know politics is a huge onefor this, but there's so many
times where we want to controlthe outcome by controlling the
emotion and we need to listenand let people have their own
emotions.
You know, I've heard years ago,you know they were saying you
(41:27):
know, emotions aren't right orwrong, they just are.
You know and we need to letpeople be upset when they're
upset and not to get into it ornot to try to solve it.
You know, maybe just stop andlisten to what they have to say
and let them have that time withtheir feelings.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yes, yes, and it allows you to kind of step back
and observe You're not trying tosolve, you're not trying to
rescue, you're not trying topush your opinion or why you did
something.
I mean, I had this where afriend got upset with me over
something that I did and I wouldnot give her the space to just
(42:13):
have her emotion and her opinionon what happened.
I wanted to stop her and Iwanted to really be like, well,
no, no, no.
This is why this is how this is, you didn't understand.
I think you've probably donethis with friends or with
siblings.
Right, and this is really whatwe're talking about here.
(42:34):
Everybody is entitled to theirown opinion and feelings and
it's not our place to tell themthe right or wrong or negate
them or try and convince themotherwise.
And this ability to observe, todetach, to just listen is so
(42:55):
key in life and this is a bigmid-life learning for me, Tish.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree with that morestrongly that we need to find
this peace and ease, that wehave to be okay.
Just because somebody has anopposite emotion of how we're
reacting doesn't make them rightor us wrong, or us right and
(43:21):
them wrong.
Think of it as just peace andease.
And the less you need tocontrol people and focus more on
yourself I think that's whereyou're going to find your inner
peace is when you just trulyembrace this idea of just let
(43:42):
them and sit in that for alittle bit and then you make
your decisions.
If it's something that is adeal breaker for you in terms of
a friendship or relationship,then it's a deal breaker.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Or sometimes you can just let them and they might
come back.
It might not be the end you canagree to disagree.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Exactly, I hear you.
I appreciate what you're saying.
I don't necessarily agree withwhat you're saying, but I'm
going to let you have thosefeelings.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
This is new.
I mean, this is some kind ofnew thinking here.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, for me it is.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Well, I just want to say peace and going with the
flow and ease, I mean thatsounds like a great midlife to
me.
I want to say thanks to ourlisteners for joining us.
Just to say if you like theshow, you can support us with a
Patreon subscription.
The link is in the show notes.
(44:54):
I know Tish and I have ourquarterly Zoom for our patrons.
If you get on soon you can jumpon to that event with us and
till next week midlifers.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Have a great week.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
The Positively Midlife Podcast is presented
solely for general information,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
Tish, have you heard about the Just Let them Theory?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You mean the one from Mel Robbins, right?
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Yes, exactly, it's simple and powerful, like most
things in life.
You know, I found they aren'trocket science, but this one's
very liberating.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
You know, I know I've heard about it, but I'm really
not that sure I reallycompletely understand how it
works.
So I love that we're going totalk about the Just Let them
Theory today.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
That's right.
Mel shares that we spend somuch time and energy getting
emotionally worked up aboutthings that are totally out of
and beyond our control.
So the theory is about stoppingto try and make people do what
you or me want them to do, and Iknow I do this all the time,
(00:56):
tish.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I know they're amazing listeners who aren't
really familiar with Mel.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I love how we're on a first name basis with her Tish
Kind of like Brene, we're alsoon a first name basis with Brene
.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Exactly, they're just our girl tribe, but these are
women.
These are such relatable womenand I think that's why we feel
so connected to them.
Hopefully our listeners feelthe same about us.
But yes, so Mel Robbins is anAmerican podcast host.
She's an author, a motivationalspeaker and a former lawyer,
(01:34):
and what I love about her is sheis just so real and she gives
very clear, simple messages.
It's not super complex things.
She's very simple and clearabout how to make your life
better.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
You know that's right , and I believe she uses all of
these things in her life as well, and she even talks about that.
Her podcast is one of, if notthe most popular podcast in the
world right now and we'll put alink to her website and her
podcast in the show notes ifanybody wants to learn more
about Mel Robbins.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
So, alan, you know, to me it's so draining of my
energy when I try and controlhow someone else responds to
things, and this idea of justlet them sounds so free, like a
breath of fresh air to me.
So let's dive in, because Iwant to know more, because I
(02:37):
need to know more.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I hear you, Tish.
I've been practicing saying justlet them in my head and out
loud as we got ready for thisepisode and it sure rolls off
the tongue.
But putting this into practice,I don't think it's going to be
as easy for you and me.
Old habits are difficult tochange, but we can all use a
technique for this.
(03:00):
And control and wanting tocontrol things leads to
unhappiness, and you know that'swhat we're here for on this
podcast is to grow at midlife,to change, to make things better
, to become aware and we bothknow awareness is the first step
in making changes.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
You know, I'm really looking forward to this one.
I feel like we are about tohave more of those midlife
growing pains right, ellen, Ifeel like I have grown so much,
like lately, going through allthese exercises in our podcast,
I think I've grown as much aswhen, maybe during my teenage
(03:41):
years.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I agree, I definitely agree.
You and I go through everythingwe talk about.
So today we're going to talkabout just let them in so much
more.
But you know, I love this partof the show.
I say that every week.
Let's get to our weeklyobsessions.
What do you got from you fish?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Okay, so I have, you know, being the summertime and
being I've been out in the sunquite a bit and stuff like that.
So Hawaiian Tropic has thisamazing after sun body butter
called exotic coconut, and I'msorry, the smell of Hawaiian
(04:22):
Tropic just sends me back to myteen years, hanging out at the
beach bars on Lake Erie, it'sjust south of Buffalo, with my
girl tribe.
So give me some Hawaiian Tropicexotic body bar body butter.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Oh, my God, say that five times, fast you know it
does remind me also of ussitting out on reflective
blankets in college to get ourtams as well, right.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Is this something about the Hawaiian Tropic scent?
It just yeah, just takes meright back.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Yeah, I love anything .
Coconut Including a drink,including a drink.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Exactly, exactly.
But Ellen, what about you?
What is your obsession for thisweek?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
You know, my obsession is this product called
O-S-E I think that's how youpronounce it.
It's O-S-E-A, and they make aproduct called an ocean cleanser
and it really is super creamy.
It feels like you're washingyour face with the ocean.
(05:35):
It has seaweed in it and Ithink what's great is that it
has no sulfates, battleates,parabens, petrochemicals,
mineral oil, silicon or talc allthose bad things that I know.
She talked to us about a fewweeks ago, so I think this
(05:55):
product is pretty good from thatstandpoint.
But it just feels somoisturizing.
My skin at midlife is dry andit just is a miracle.
So the O-S-E Ocean Cleanser ismy obsession.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Oh, that sounds really good yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Yeah, and it's not too expensive.
You know it's a little moreexpensive than something you
might find at you know CVS, butthings at CVS are the same it's
$18.
So I think people can splurge.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, I think that's a doable luxury.
Okay, I like that.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
All right Links to both of these in our show notes.
But let's jump right back intothe just let them theory tissue
when you quote unquote.
Just let them do whatever it isthey want to do.
You gain emotional peace.
You gain a better relationshipwith those people in your life
that you care about.
(06:52):
I mean, how good does peacesound?
Mel Robin suggests right.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Does that sound good?
Speaker 1 (06:59):
No drama.
Mama Mel suggests the way totap into this is to let people
be themselves and not try andcontrol them.
Does that sound simple?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Deceptively simple, I think.
But let's start with the mostbasic reason that somebody would
want to control others, Likewhy would even someone want to
control someone else?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Well, I feel some scientific research, or just
some research, or a stat comingon tish right.
What do you got?
Speaker 2 (07:30):
here Exactly exactly.
So this comes from PsychCentraland it states that a person
with a controlling personalityis driven by high levels of
anxiety to feel safe.
So, through their need forcontrol, they might be
(07:50):
unconsciously feeling okay, butthis creates this anxiety that
can create this strong desire tocontrol their surroundings and
especially control other people,and this helps to keep a sense
of order for them.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I can relate to that completely and I think it's
meaningful for us to start withthis tish right.
Why do we or others want tocontrol situations or people?
I am malstated that.
It's like an alarm bell thatgoes off in our head for our
anxiety, and I've realized herein midlife that I have anxiety
(08:31):
and possibly maybe just a teeny,weeny, small bit controlling,
under the guise of this midlifewisdom that I have.
So we've touched that thistheory is about letting go of
control and letting people dowhat they will do, and Mal had a
(08:53):
really good way that sheequated this that when we have
stress or anxiety, it triggerssomething in us, and she said
it's like rowing a boat upstreamagainst a current.
It's exhausting, it's pointless, it's futile, you'll never get
there.
And would it just let themtheory?
You stop rowing upstream, youturn it around and the boat goes
(09:15):
with the flow.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I love that image.
And Mal makes this huge promisethat this simple philosophy
will change your life.
So turning from controllingeverything and everyone, but
rather to let that current takeyou where it's going to go
anyway, because the control isso exhausting and by letting go
(09:44):
of that you are going to begetting back your energy and you
can spend that energy onyourself.
And she even says that her kidsare using this philosophy.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
They're using it on her, which I think is really
funny right.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Exactly so.
I visualize myself fightingagainst this current.
Like Mal suggests for us tounderstand this theory, you can
really feel like the exhaustionof trying to paddle upstream,
and the thing is it doesn'tcreate more control.
You actually feel less control.
(10:25):
But, as Mal says, when you takeyour hands off the oars and the
oar turns around and goesdownstream, floating with how
things are going to go, that'swhen it becomes easy, when you
just go with it.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Right, right, and instead of fighting, you create
this piece for yourself.
I have to say, obviously, thisis where I'm sure the phrase
going with the flow came fromRight Tish.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I guess so yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
I know Well Tish, I admitted to being a teeny weeny
bit of a control freak.
Do you catch yourselfcontrolling people, or maybe
your kids?
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Well see, here's the thing you know when we were new
moms we have to controleverything that our kids did,
right?
Because, heaven forbid they'dstick in their fingers and light
sock If not right.
So but I think I have gottenbetter, as my kids have gotten
older, to start letting themchoose their own path, even when
(11:31):
I didn't agree.
Now I will give them my opinion, but I also let them know that
they need to make their ownchoices.
I had this recently with mydaughter.
Her and her boyfriend arethinking of moving to a town
about an hour away and they'rein this situation where his
(11:51):
employer is helping to pay fortheir rental home and they're
going to walk away from that tobuy a home you know away.
And I think it's crazy and Iwanted to like jump in and I
thought I'm going to tell themmy thoughts and then I ended it
with but you know what you guysare so like financially
(12:12):
responsible and responsibleabout everything.
I'm going to trust that you'regoing to do what's right for you
.
And I love that it was aboutrespecting them.
You know they I'm putting moreweight on the financial help
they're getting, but they'reputting more weight, I think, on
(12:34):
their home ownership.
Yeah, Home ownership.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Home ownership.
You know, Tish, bravo right.
They asked for your opinion,you gave it, but you told them
no, they didn't ask, they didn'task.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Oh, they didn't ask, oh, okay, they didn't ask, they
didn't ask, okay.
But but I very carefully said,hey, these are my thoughts,
because I don't want to comeback, have them come back later
and say, oh, we didn't think ofthat, these are my thoughts.
I know what you guys are tryingto do or whatever, and I know
(13:07):
and I said, I know you're goingto pick the right choice for you
all.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That's great and I learned so much from your
parenting.
Tish, you're years ahead of mewith your kids and I do catch
myself a lot more, especiallywith my children, and I try and
stop it.
I have an example that happenedduring the pandemic.
Everybody here in Marin theboys, they just grew their hair
(13:31):
long.
I mean, it looks like in 1975to me the whole time I was
waiting for, you know, bikeswith banana seats and sissy cars
.
But one of my kids decided tokeep the wrong hair and it has
created this huge push pullbetween us.
I like shorter hair.
I know that it's somethinghe'll eventually change, but the
(13:54):
hair just kept growing and it'scurly and it's gotten bigger
and bigger and bigger.
I even at one point tried tobargain an earring.
You feel it?
You said you wanted an earring,like get a haircut.
Well, that didn't happen.
I mean this is a ridiculousexample, but this is how we want
to be in other people'sbusiness and control.
(14:17):
He is 19.
It is not my business.
I have learned to step away.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Okay, and here's the thing, alan.
What if you just let him havelong hair?
I think you're trying tocontrol more than just his hair.
Maybe it's something about whatthe long hair means, or the
image or whatever.
It's not really the hair, it'sreally what the you know.
(14:44):
So you've caught yourself nowtrying to control this.
And what would happen If youjust said let him have long hair
.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, well, I am here .
I have surrendered.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I have realized.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I mean, this has been a couple years, though, but
this hit home.
You know this is powerful.
It's time for me to let go.
He is on his path.
He is a great kid, you know.
Just let him right here.
Done, Mike, drop there.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Okay, we'll see if we revisit that one.
Yes, we will revisit this one.
So I don't know.
I have always felt that peoplewho try and control you, it's
really more about them notfeeling in control of their own
life, and If they focus on youand controlling you, it makes
(15:42):
them feel like they'recontrolling something.
Yes, and, like I said, itbecomes very tricky with
parenting, because At one pointwe did have to control
everything.
Yeah, then, yeah, we had tostart letting go Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
It is not, but it works with parents, with your
husband, wife, your partner atwork, in Friendships.
This is true and true and trueacross the board.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, and you know what, in midlife I want my focus
to be more within me, gettinggood with what I want and what's
important to me.
And that's not to say that it'sa selfish focus, but just
worrying about being the bestperson I can be, controlling the
(16:37):
only happiness that I cancontrol, which is my own.
Okay, there is just so muchdrama surrounding worrying about
what others think and how theymight respond.
I'm said it's just too drainingand I'm done with it.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I Fully agree.
It is beyond time here atmidlife to stop focusing on what
others you're doing, because weknow we can't control it anyway
.
Right, I am with you.
I want peace and I want tospend my time Focusing on things
that matter time and energy.
I always feel like it's nottime in midlife, it's energy.
(17:17):
It's becoming a rare commoditythat energy we love that energy,
and this reminds me ofsomething I learned by going to
Alan on, and I know this is true.
In a A2, they have this phrasecalled keeping your own side of
the street clean.
When you want to go tellsomeone what they should be
doing and how they should bedoing it, what you really need
(17:37):
to do is come back to yourselfand work on yourself, and I
think this is something thateveryone can benefit from.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
You know, and probably why you're hearing it
in an, in an Alan on meeting,because there's a great example
of where you Were very goodreasons.
You want to control somebodynot drinking because it's so
detrimental to them, right, yes,yes, but ultimately you can't
control that.
You know.
(18:09):
Yeah, and we're gonna.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
We're gonna talk about that a little later on too
, but you hit it spot-on, tish.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
So it sounds to me like we are right back talking
about boundaries again.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Alan, we're back there again, right we we are we
are.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
But, but it's really with a different twist this time
, and instead of theconfrontation, we stop trying to
make others do something and westart just reacting differently
, that's all.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
It's true and, for me , really understanding that this
control is a response toanxiety Hits home, being aware
when it happens and just using Ican't just let them a mantra,
not a theory in a way becauseyou know, whenever you say it,
like I was saying you, you know,just let them, just let them,
(19:04):
even if you have to say it outloud, right, it is what puts
that pause there.
It helps you stop Spinning downeven further and deeper into
control.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
So, when you're walking down the street with
your son and you go by ahairdresser and Instead of like
grabbing his arm and you'regonna say, now, we also say,
(19:36):
though, there are times that youshouldn't put this theory into
action, and I think this issuper important, because these
definitely include times wherethere's danger or there's
bullying.
Okay, and it's like a greatexample would be you don't let
somebody get behind the wheel ifyou know they've been drinking,
(19:56):
and that is not.
That is not the time to sayjust let them know, because
that's danger, right.
We don't want to say just letthem as we stand by and watch
somebody be harassed ordiscriminated against, right?
This is that is a step up andspeak up moment.
(20:16):
This is not a we'll just letthem.
There's a difference here, right, and I think we can all realize
when we need to be present andinvolved and when we need to
start saying just let them.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I agree 100% here, Tish.
I mean you know, you have toknow when you need to take
action, and those are situations, danger, bullying,
discrimination.
All of those need you, as yousaid, to stand up and speak up.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah, so let's look at four ways to use this theory.
Okay, so now that we kind ofknow what it is, let's give some
practicality behind this.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yes, I think we both have some situations we can
share here.
All right, the first one isbeing left out.
This is so common.
It's common at any age.
It hurts, still at midlife, andwe can react to it and it
doesn't feel good and it is atrigger, I think, for us to try
(21:26):
and control the situation.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yeah, being left out of a friend situation like, say,
going to a concert or goingdancing or even just going away
from the weekend yeah, that it'shard.
That's a hard moment.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Tricky territory, but have you ever been left out?
Because you're single, TishLeft out.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
You know I have, but over the years I've tended more
to shy away from a lot of couplesituations, so I almost
preferred being left out,because there's nothing worse
than, yeah, I'll go to that NewYear's Eve party with all the
(22:12):
couples.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I just don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
But I totally get that when you're the one left
out, it's hard not to feel thosefeelings.
It definitely is, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It is.
I have as well in a couple ofsituations.
One friend said, would you wantto come?
And I was like, no, but thankyou for asking.
And another situation I wasn'tasked but I heard about it after
and you know, just let them.
Who cares?
Like you were saying, these arenot situations that were going
(22:48):
to be great for me anyway.
Who wants to be the only singleat a couple's dinner party in
New Year's Eve?
I'm totally with you.
But you know I've been left outtoo, with just friends.
There was a time where somefriends went to hear some music
together.
I found out after I wasn'tinvited and I was sad.
But I quickly thought well, Idon't want to invite everybody
(23:12):
every time.
Sometimes I want to go outone-on-one, sometimes I want to
do something solo.
Right, we're not invited toeverything.
And I think if you are feelinghurt, you've got to examine, you
know, do you need to planthings or you somebody who has
(23:32):
really put time and effort intoyour friendships?
Right, take it again, take itback in, think about it and just
let them organize somethingelse, right?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I think this one's pretty straightforward, but it's
just to remember.
Not everything is really aboutyou.
Maybe you were excluded becausethat person needed to have a
one-on-one conversation withsomebody.
You don't know the extenuatingcircumstances, and I always
(24:02):
believe having diverse groups offriends is always a positive
thing too, because noteverything is for you, you know
that's right, that's right.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
I mean, I have heard of someone being upset that some
friends were going on a tripand they really only wanted four
, because four is a hotel room,four is an easier taxi or Uber
or rental car, right, and theyfelt like four was just better.
It's easier to navigate, youknow so a lot of times it's not
about you.
It could be about the situation, right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
But my advice would be to take a breath, kind of get
in this mindset of just letthem and just go with that.
Yeah, Don't make everythinginto this big personal assault
and just let them.
And you know, in a day or twoit's really not that big a deal.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
It's not, it's not.
And again, that mantra takesyou to a different place.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So a second example is the let people fail.
Okay, so here and this may be alot with our kids, you know,
our kids or younger people, butit could be with friends as well
is, you know, to give peoplethe room to grow, the chance to
(25:27):
learn and take personalresponsibility and to understand
that every choice isn't, youknow, always going to be perfect
or whatever.
But it's okay to let,especially with kids, let your
kids fail.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Let them have that opportunity to pick themselves
up, move on, come back fromstuff.
Those are the lessons thatreally stick with us through our
.
You know it wasn't the easytime.
We remember it's the gettingthrough the hard time and if
you're constantly interveningand hovering and taking care of
(26:10):
and you're not giving them thatopportunity to fail, to regroup
and then to succeed, you'rerobbing them of that.
You are.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
And I love this, this kind of idea that you need the
thing of the consequences, and Iknow that's with with children,
but even at work, if you don'tdo something, you know and you
have somebody working for you.
Sometimes you got to let themfail right and understand the
consequences.
I know for me this is whereaddiction is a big one here.
(26:44):
And I know, you know this.
At one point I tried so hard toget someone in my life sober.
They weren't ready.
I had an interventionist, arehab, I mean.
It all failed miserably.
That person did not want myhealth.
I did not understand thisconcept of just let them and I
(27:05):
was trying to control the entiresituation.
And so if I had understood thisat this point in my, at that
point in my life, it would havebeen a lot easier.
And I think this is one of thethe prime examples of let people
fail.
I could have given this personthe room to grow and to take
(27:27):
this on on their own, and Ididn't, and it was a tough
lesson to learn.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
You know, every time you step in and maybe
potentially make a problem goaway, you do prevent that person
from growing right.
Yep, you stop being a peoplepleaser or a rainmaker.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
Yes, no.
I like both of those things andI remember Brandon, our guest
on on some big midlifetransitions.
He said growth, growth ishappens in the hard times.
Yes, you know it happens in thehard times, and I think that's
so true here, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
I wanted to, I, I, I just want to round back on that.
You know there's there's this,this whole theory of helicopter
parents, right, and, and they'reconstantly hovering and
hovering and making sureeverything it's good and perfect
and what.
These kids do not know what todo in crisis because there's
(28:37):
nobody hovering there to make itall go away.
So you know, it's this, and Iknow it's one of the hardest
things to do to sit and watchyour child struggle, but it's
one of the best things you cando, and the younger you allow
them to do that, the more skillsthey learn.
(28:58):
So when the stakes get higherand higher, as they do, when we
get older and older, they have atoolbox.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
Yeah, we always talk about the toolbox and adding to
the toolbox.
Now I was going to talk aboutthe situation with my son and
his dorm room.
It doesn't really belong inthis part of the podcast, but I
think it's interesting that itcame up right, because Will, my
(29:29):
youngest son I think we'vetalked about him quite a bit is
going away to college and wewent and looked at the school
and he showed me where his dormwas and it was not the dorm I
would have picked.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
So you have a situation where Will's going to
be going off to college, right,yes, and he had to pick his own
dorm room.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Did you let him just pick it?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Well, I did.
Well, that depends, tish, onhow you say it.
I, like you, added my opinionto the dorm he picked, which I
would have picked something in adifferent location.
And he said, nope, I'm happywith my dorm.
(30:19):
And I went back again to tryand say, well, what about this?
Maybe you know when it'sraining, whatever.
And then I just realized, it'strue, I had this epiphany of
just let him he's happy, why doI want to control where his dorm
is Like?
(30:40):
It was so hard for me.
But this theory, this mantra,it took me three times.
Granted, right, I went backtwice, but on the third time it
was like it hit me, like justlet him he's happy, why am I
getting it?
Like, why, why?
(31:02):
Why as well, I can say here, soyou know this, this theory, I
mean it is really helpful.
I felt like I would have goneback again had I not had it.
What I'd like to do is to notgo at all right, Just accept,
just let him.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Well, here's the thing we're not going to make
all these changes overnight.
We know that these are going tobe things that we need to
practice.
But I have got to give you bigprops on that one, because I
think Ellen of a year ago wouldhave just kept going and going
until she convinced him.
But you are very different fromWill, you know Will is he's
(31:46):
very social in a lot of ways,but he also likes his quiet time
.
So a dorm, sort of removed, isprobably going to be the best
for him, so everybody won't beat his room Exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
I mean.
So many reasons why it it is.
So, yeah, and thanks Tish, I dofeel like I've grown in the
last year, and here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
I think your intentions were good and that's
the thing I think people need tounderstand.
All of these contri tryingsomebody can try to control
isn't because they have badintentions all the time.
Sometimes it is, but a lot oftimes it's not.
We might have well intentions,well it doesn't.
It doesn't change the fact thatthey need, he needs to pick his
(32:37):
own space.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yes, and why do?
I think I always know betterwith this midlife wisdom, and I
think that's where I really haveto go back to my side of the
street and work on that aspectof it.
So you know what we have.
The third way, and this is tolet people be themselves, who
(33:03):
they are and who they're not.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Say that again, because that's a powerful thing.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
You know it is.
It's just like letting my sonhave his long hair.
He is who he is.
I think there's this wholeconcept of trying to change
people, right?
Yes, and I think that's whatthis is about.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
Yeah, we need to stop doing this and let them be
themselves, right?
Mm, hmm.
And Mel asks are you in therelationship with truly who they
are?
It's a powerful.
Are you in the relationshipwith this person, whether it's a
parent, child, whether it's afriend, whether it's a lover,
(33:49):
whatever it is, are you reallyin the relationship with truly
who they are?
Let them be who they are.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
This is a huge one for women, I think, in dating,
especially in choosing a partner, and there's this thing of you
don't date a guy for hispotential, don't have a friend
for their potential either.
Don't try and change people,just let them be.
I think we see potential inpeople and want to have the
(34:23):
relationship with a potentialperson, not with a real person,
that dating people for theirpotential is huge at midlife.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Here's the thing If they've gotten to this point in
their life at a certain way, wereally have some balls thinking
we're going to change it.
Come on, this is crazy.
But not saying, well, if hejust did this or he just changed
(34:55):
that, I mean, come on, we'repretty baked into who we're
going to be at this age.
I think this is one of theprime, prime times to say just
let them.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I agree.
I mean, how angry would we beif some guy came and was like
you know what?
I think you got a lot ofpotential.
But I don't really like how youare now, I think you got a lot
of potential to be even better.
Boom, they'd be at the door.
I mean, here's one thing and Iknow I mentioned this before
(35:30):
I've learned that houses arefixer upper.
Men, friends, people, they arenot.
You need to like people as theyare not for what they could be
with a little bit of ourzhuzhing, you know, kids you
zhuzh a lot in your house right,you're zhuzhing and you're
moving pillows.
Forget that shit.
You better like people for whothey are and you make good
(35:55):
choices based on what you need,not what you think this person
can become.
I think this is a great point.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Ellen, I absolutely love that.
You know, whether it's the kids, the parents, the in-laws, the
friends, be in a relationshipwhere who they are right now, at
that moment, and just be goodwith that.
You know, jealousy right itselfis a way to control and I see
(36:27):
this all the time, you know,truly.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, I see it too, Tish, and I think this is a
great point to add here, becausejealousy is just another
attempt to control people,whether it's your partners
playing golf or you know, yoursister's going out with other
friends, or someone spending toomuch time reading, too much
time playing pickleball right.
(36:51):
Not doing the things we wantthem to do.
Speaker 2 (36:57):
You know this kind of happens because I think some
people feel threatened.
You know and you know they'reseeking out love and acceptance.
But jealousy to me it justbackfires on you and in that
attempt to show your extra loveby being extra jealous or
(37:20):
something you know it's, youknow it's, to me it lessens it's
that need to control, shows theinsecurity of your feelings and
it really to me shows less love, less respect.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
You know 100%.
I agree with that.
When you allow people to dowhat they want to do, what makes
them happy, you become presentand your relationships become
deeper and you bring more lovein.
I know this soundscounterintuitive, in some ways
right, but it's like, even ifyou're uncomfortable with it, if
(38:00):
you do that, it brings the loveyou want.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Right.
So I mean and that's not to saythat you just let anyone do
whatever you know- Right, thanks, you have that choice to walk
away, turn and walk away, youknow.
But jealousy itself is justtoxic, you know it's.
It is just the opposite of justlet them.
Jealousy is that ultimatecontrol, and we need to support
(38:27):
people to do what makes themhappy without the control.
It's that.
What is that line?
You know, when you lovesomething, set it free.
If it comes back to you, it'syours, if it doesn't, it never
was.
Same thing, the same thing.
You know you don't need thattoxic jealousy to show your love
(38:50):
and your control over somebody.
You know, let them be who theyare.
If they're meant to stay withyou, they will stay with you.
If they want to be faithful toyou, they'll be faithful to you,
and if they don't, no amount ofjealousy is going to keep
things intact.
There's, no, it's a falsecontrol.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I 100% agree, and I'm gonna quote Ding here and say
free, free, set them free.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
It is.
It's the other mantra, otherthan just let them.
I think that's equally aspowerful.
So I've learned a lot about howmuch time, energy and effort
I've been spending trying tocontrol things here.
So those are my two mantrasTish.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
And something that is perfect for midlife is.
I can create a better flow inmy own life, if I can use this
just let them as a pause tothinking about what I'm really
doing and where my motivationsare, and I'm going to use this
(40:02):
just let them as kind of aself-check.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, I like that, I like that.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
You know, just let them.
Hey, if it's really thatimportant that I maybe can't let
go, you can go back later, butinitially go with the, just let
them.
So I know we've been going on,but I want to get to the fourth
way that we can use this justlet people have their emotions
(40:30):
and feelings.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
You know we have talked about this time and time
again.
So if someone's upset, justlisten.
Let them have their feelings.
Don't try and change them ornegate them.
We just talked about this toshare our Barbie episode.
How hard it is for us to listenwithout adding on, without,
(40:55):
maybe, if we're upset, defendingour point of view or telling
them why they're wrong.
So let people have theiremotions and opinions, just let
them.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
Correct, I think so many times.
You know politics is a huge onefor this, but there's so many
times where we want to controlthe outcome by controlling the
emotion and we need to listenand let people have their own
emotions.
You know, I've heard years ago,you know they were saying you
(41:27):
know, emotions aren't right orwrong, they just are.
You know and we need to letpeople be upset when they're
upset and not to get into it ornot to try to solve it.
You know, maybe just stop andlisten to what they have to say
and let them have that time withtheir feelings.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
Yes, yes, and it allows you to kind of step back
and observe You're not trying tosolve, you're not trying to
rescue, you're not trying topush your opinion or why you did
something.
I mean, I had this where afriend got upset with me over
something that I did and I wouldnot give her the space to just
(42:13):
have her emotion and her opinionon what happened.
I wanted to stop her and Iwanted to really be like, well,
no, no, no.
This is why this is how this is, you didn't understand.
I think you've probably donethis with friends or with
siblings.
Right, and this is really whatwe're talking about here.
(42:34):
Everybody is entitled to theirown opinion and feelings and
it's not our place to tell themthe right or wrong or negate
them or try and convince themotherwise.
And this ability to observe, todetach, to just listen is so
(42:55):
key in life and this is a bigmid-life learning for me, Tish.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree with that morestrongly that we need to find
this peace and ease, that wehave to be okay.
Just because somebody has anopposite emotion of how we're
reacting doesn't make them rightor us wrong, or us right and
(43:21):
them wrong.
Think of it as just peace andease.
And the less you need tocontrol people and focus more on
yourself I think that's whereyou're going to find your inner
peace is when you just trulyembrace this idea of just let
(43:42):
them and sit in that for alittle bit and then you make
your decisions.
If it's something that is adeal breaker for you in terms of
a friendship or relationship,then it's a deal breaker.
Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Or sometimes you can just let them and they might
come back.
It might not be the end you canagree to disagree.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Exactly, I hear you.
I appreciate what you're saying.
I don't necessarily agree withwhat you're saying, but I'm
going to let you have thosefeelings.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
This is new.
I mean, this is some kind ofnew thinking here.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Yeah, for me it is.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Well, I just want to say peace and going with the
flow and ease, I mean thatsounds like a great midlife to
me.
I want to say thanks to ourlisteners for joining us.
Just to say if you like theshow, you can support us with a
Patreon subscription.
The link is in the show notes.
(44:54):
I know Tish and I have ourquarterly Zoom for our patrons.
If you get on soon you can jumpon to that event with us and
till next week midlifers.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Have a great week.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
The Positively Midlife Podcast is presented
solely for general information,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
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