May 27, 2025 • 37 mins
Think postpartum psychosis is just a scary headline? Think again. This powerful episode pulls back the curtain on a condition too often misunderstood and dangerously dismissed. Join us as we listen to Aaisha Alvi, a postpartum psychosis awareness advocate and survivor, whose raw and compelling story will challenge everything you thought you knew. As postpartum providers and professionals, you'll gain invaluable insight into the lived experience of this psychiatric emergency, the critical warning signs, and the potentially life-saving actions you can take. This isn't just theoretical knowledge; it's essential postpartum education that could directly impact the lives of your clients and their families.
Check out this episode on the blog HERE.
Key Time Stamps:
- 01:17: Meeting Aaisha Alvi & the urgent need for PPP awareness.
- 02:24: Aaisha's progression from PPD/PPA to psychosis after birth.
- 05:13: The onset of terrifying delusions & altered reality.
- 06:38 & 09:29: Repeated dismissal by doctors despite clear distress.
- 08:21: PPP after miscarriage: highlighting broader risk factors.
- 17:07: Hallucinations & delusions: the critical diagnostic markers.
- 18:07: PPP as a psychiatric emergency with suicide/infanticide risks.
- 23:34: The heartbreaking impact of dismissed pleas for help.
- 25:16: Aaisha's healing journey: medication, therapy, self-education.
- 21:52: The critical importance of truly listening to mothers.
- 15:18: Challenging the "rare" label & advocating for better care.
- 28:35: Hope for improved provider awareness & life-saving interventions.
Connect with Aaisha
Aaisha Alvi is a postpartum psychosis awareness advocate and writer. Her book, A Mom Like That: A Memoir of Postpartum Psychosis was recently released. You can follow her awareness efforts below.
Read the first 5 chapters of Aaisha's Book: A Mom Like That: A Memoir of Postpartum Psychosis ---> https://books.google.ca/books?id=kd_eEAAAQBAJ&pg=PT12&source=kp_read_button&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&gboemv=1&redir_esc=y
NEXT STEPS:
🎒Download the free Postpartum Restoration Method™ Assessment Tool & Guide for Providers
🔔Sign up for the Postpartum Nutrition Certification Waitlist
👍Rate, REVIEW & share the podcast
📱Connect on Instagram!
📚Get a Copy of the BOOK: Reclaiming Postpartum Wellness
🧠Perinatal Mental Health Certificate Training & Additional Courses for Providers & Postpartum Professionals
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The postpartum care system is failing, leaving
countless mothers strugglingwith depression, anxiety and
autoimmune conditions.
I'm Miranda Bauer and I'vehelped thousands of providers
use holistic care practices toheal their clients at the root.
Subscribe now and join us inaddressing what modern medicine
(00:22):
overlooks, so that you can giveyour clients real, lasting
solutions for lifelongwell-being.
Hey, hey everyone, welcome tothe podcast.
Miranda Bauer here, postpartumUniversity, and we have a very
special guest, aisha Alvi.
She is a postpartum psychosisawareness advocate and writer.
(00:45):
She has a new book, a Mom Likethat.
It's a memoir for postpartumpsychosis, and it was recently
released.
I highly recommend taking alook at that.
You can follow her awarenessefforts at Ayesha Alvey writes
and I'll have that in the shownotes for you.
But this is such a profound andbeautiful conversation, but I
(01:07):
will tell you right away alittle bit of a trigger warning,
because we are going to getinto Aisha's experience with
psychosis.
She is a mother who'sexperienced this herself and has
lived through something mostproviders only read about in
textbooks.
Aisha, I want to give you a big,big welcome and thank you so
(01:31):
much from the bottom of my heartfor sharing your story and your
journey here, which is sobeautiful and so profound in
terms of, like, getting this outinto the world and sharing this
, because it is not an easything to do this out into the
world and sharing this becauseit is not an easy thing to do.
It takes a lot of guts and willand just everything in between
to be able to share your storyand what you have been through.
(01:56):
And I'd love to open up notonly with a welcome but also to
ask what did you most need fromyour care team that maybe you
didn't receive?
Maybe you can share a littlebit more of your story because,
again, this is something thatmost people only read about or
hear about on the news and I'dreally love to help providers
(02:17):
kind of reflect on the realhumanness and the impact of how
care is delivered.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, and thank you so much for the warm welcome,
miranda, and I really appreciateyou allowing me to be here,
because without platforms likeyours, the awareness wouldn't be
able to even get out, like Imean, I could be willing to
share my story, but if thereweren't platforms like yours out
there, it wouldn't get anywhere.
(02:45):
So I really, really want tothank you for that, this
opportunity, and I think youbegan in a really good way in
terms of, like, what did I needfrom providers?
And I think that that willbecome very clear when I retell
some of my story.
So I think I think I'll startwith a little bit of my story,
if that's okay, and then thatwill come right to what I would
(03:08):
have wanted from providers.
So, to begin, I just wanted topoint out that I did have
experienced postpartum psychosistwice, one after the birth of
my daughter and the second timewas after a miscarriage at like
14 weeks.
So I never had any mentalhealth issues prior to
(03:30):
postpartum, to experiencingpostpartum.
I you know I was probably thetype of kid that was like a
little bit on the worried side,but I never had like nothing
that ever restricted my life inany way.
So I was pretty much, like youknow, no previous mental health
issues or anything.
I was a very healthy kid,adolescent and adult.
(03:51):
And then I got pregnant, whichwas something that I was really
looking forward to.
I really wanted to have mychild and my pregnancy was
relatively, you know, uneventfulit was.
I enjoyed being pregnant, itwas.
I was very much looking forwardto having my baby.
And really soon after I gavebirth I started to feel
(04:12):
depressed and super anxious andI kind of didn't really think
much of it, because you know, wealways hear about the baby
blues and stuff like that.
So nobody in my family was tooconcerned and I myself wasn't
that concerned because I knewabout the baby blues.
But then, you know, like thedepression was getting a little
like more severe and like I wasfeeling like really like always
(04:33):
weepy and I started to have likesuper anxious thoughts about,
like you know, is my babygetting enough to drink, and
just like worries that I waskind of becoming obsessive about
.
And then, pretty soon afterthat, I started to experience
intrusive thoughts, like Istarted having thoughts about my
baby drowning or like my baby'shead like being, you know, like
(04:54):
smashed and I didn't know it atthe time because they were
extremely frightening toexperience these intrusive
thoughts.
But they're actually verycommon symptoms and about 90% of
moms in the postpartum periodand a lot of fathers to
experience intrusive thoughts.
So I started having some ofthat.
But then very soon after thatlike I mean, a few days after
(05:17):
the intrusive thoughts started Istarted believing some really
strange things.
Like I started thinking that myfamily would start to act on
the intrusive thoughts in myhead.
So I didn't think that theywere having the thoughts.
I thought they were in my headbut I thought that they would
act on them and that was apretty strange kind of thought.
And then, you know, I startedto slowly, things started to
(05:42):
evolve more and I started tothink that my baby wasn't really
a baby.
And I started to think that mybaby wasn't really a baby and I
started to think that maybe shewas like a grown adult that was
pretending to be a baby.
And then at one point I startedto think that my husband had
plans to molest my daughter.
And even though I had thesestrange beliefs which are
actually called delusions, Ididn't know they were called
(06:04):
that, but strange beliefs arecalled delusions and, like
strange beliefs which areactually called delusions.
I didn't know they were calledthat, but strange beliefs are
called delusions and likestrange beliefs that have no
evidence to substantiate it,they're called delusions.
And so I have these strangebeliefs but I didn't realize
that something was wrong aboutthe beliefs that I was having
and I wasn't sharing them withanybody in my family.
But my family did notice that,that that there was something
(06:26):
off about me in terms of likethe way I was behaving and stuff
, because you know, I didn'treally look like I wanted to
share my baby with them, of likeattacked him and started
punching him in the headrandomly.
So my family was like there'ssomething not right about me and
(06:50):
they took me to the doctor,like I would say, maybe like two
or three times.
They took me in and you know, Itold them that I wasn't feeling
like myself and stuff like that, but I was never diagnosed with
anything.
This was over 20 years ago,this the first time I had it and
I was never diagnosed.
And then one day, about fourmonths later, I just
spontaneously woke up and I waslike, wow, why did I believe all
(07:11):
those really bizarre thingsabout my family and about my
baby?
And it just suddenly got betterand I didn't believe those
things anymore.
This is my kind of sound alittle strange, miranda.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You know what I it's not a story that we hear often,
but it's a story that we hear,yeah, and and I am all for like
sharing this story and yourexperience and again I thank you
so much for doing so like whata crazy story, right.
Like wow, like I was listeningin, like holding on to my chair
(07:52):
what's happening next.
But and it's interestingbecause you're you're sharing
your experience you, you went toget help or your family went to
go get you help and you know, Ihad my oldest is almost 16
years old and I feel like thehelp that we had so many years
ago is like very different thanthe help that we have now.
(08:15):
Like we have so many moreoptions.
I don't know if you feel that,but I know that you have another
story as well.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, Miscarriage, yeah.
So if you thought that part wascrazy, like it just got even
worse the second time.
So what happened is that?
Like, even though I didn't gethelp the first time, you know, I
spontaneously got better fourmonths later and like I was kind
of like wondering, why did Ithink those things?
And but because of thatexperience, I was really really
(08:43):
scared of having another child,even though I wanted that
experience.
I was really really scared ofhaving another child, even
though I wanted another child.
I was really scared because Ididn't understand what what that
whole four months had beenabout.
Like I remembered the thingsthat I thought, but I didn't
know why that happened to me.
But you know, like when mydaughter turned like like four
or five years old, I I started,like you know, having baby fever
(09:05):
and I was like, oh, everybodyelse had baby, had their second
baby, so I really wanted to haveanother child and so I got
pregnant and then, close to fourmonths, at like 14 weeks, I
miscarried and within days ofmiscarrying, within days of my
body releasing my baby, Istarted feeling depressed and
anxious again.
(09:25):
But this time I personallyrecognized like I was like, hey,
this feels exactly like how Ifelt after I had, you know, my
daughter and I was like, okay,this is like feels exactly like
that.
I've never felt like thisoutside of that time.
So I was like there's somethingwrong with me and so I went
right away to try to get helpand I explained to the there's
something wrong with me.
And so I went right away to tryto get help and I explained to
(09:47):
the doctor as best as I couldthat I didn't feel like myself
and even though I had moreinsight into my symptoms and I
this time I seriously thoughtsomething was wrong, rather than
my family thinking thatsomething was wrong I got
dismissed by doctors.
I got dismissed by fivedifferent doctors, like family
(10:08):
physician, the doctor that haddelivered my baby, psychologist.
Like I tried all a gamut ofdifferent doctors and I
literally kept getting dismissedand so my symptoms kept
escalating and I again began tothink strange things.
Like I had this thought thatmaybe my daughter needed to die
(10:30):
so that she could go to heavenand I didn't want her to die.
It was like this thought, thesaying that she needs to die,
and I was like so freaked out byit.
But like, when that happened, Iwent to the doctor and I was
like I'm having really bizarrethoughts that are frightening me
and I want it to stop, kind ofthing.
And I got dismissed You're fine.
And then my family started alsonoticing that I was behaving
(10:52):
super bizarrely in response tothese symptoms, and so they
continued to take me to doctorsand my symptoms kept escalating
to the point that, rather thanit just being limited to
delusions which was likethinking false things I started
this time hearing voices andseeing things.
I heard command hallucinationsthat demanded that I stab my
(11:16):
daughter.
They demanded that I harm otherpeople.
And again I tried to go to thedoctor and I told them literally
I am hearing voices that aretelling me to do things and
they're frightening me.
There I feel like harmingpeople and I don't want to harm
people.
Please can you hospitalize me.
And they sent me home.
(11:38):
They literally sent me home,home.
So eventually I saw a sixthdoctor that was a perinatal
psychiatrist, and then she isthe one that ended up diagnosing
me with postpartum psychosis,and she retroactively diagnosed
me with having had postpartumpsychosis that first time as
well.
But like the first time, mypostpartum psychosis lasted four
(12:00):
months and I fortunatelyspontaneously recovered.
But the second time, when itwas worse, like with those
command hallucinations, likedemanding and literally like
forcing me to harm my daughterand other people as well, like I
was forced to suffer with thosesymptoms for like one and a
half months, even though I keptbegging doctors to help me, help
(12:20):
me, and like that wholeexperience is like.
Like the fact that, like Isuffered for so long, I nearly
lost my life and my child's lifebecause of this illness and
because of the ignorancesurrounding this condition, is
what made me like really want tobecome an advocate and raise
awareness of postpartumpsychosis.
Because the reality is that youknow, like there's so much
(12:44):
ignorance about this conditionand what I would have wanted
doctors that I went to to knowis know that this illness exists
.
You know, frankly, know that itexists so that you can help
somebody that's seeking help.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
You know, I think right now, most of our education
for postpartum psychosisrevolves solely on what we hear
on the news.
And that's really frightening,right, because I think we're not
given the information that weneed.
But the reality of it is thatthere's hardly any information
out there when you start lookingat the studies and I've talked
(13:21):
to a lot of clinicalpsychologists and people who are
in the field of mental healthand it's like this is new, we
haven't studied this before andwe're having a hard time
differentiating between, youknow, other postpartum illnesses
and mental health versus whatpsychosis is, and where do we
draw the line?
And so we don't even know thatclinically yet.
(13:44):
We're still learning about it.
So it's so incredibly importantthat you're sharing this story
and I'd love to know, like Ihear this so often mothers who
are terrified of postpartumpsychosis, especially after
something that we hear in thenews, right, something that's
very newsworthy, very scary,very horrific Right pops up and
(14:06):
it's like, oh, she hadpostpartum psychosis and she
tried to get the help but shedidn't, and she was having these
feelings, and then there's alot of misconceptions about okay
, what, what if I have that, youknow?
And and really, what they'reexperiencing is depression and
anxiety right?
How do we differentiate betweenwhat are these typical things
(14:28):
that we normally see depressionand anxiety versus something
that is a lot more rare butstill happens, as in postpartum
psychosis?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Yeah, so that's such a good question, because
apparently that was a problemthat the doctors that I kept
going to were having.
So one of the things like thisis just like my pet peeve.
I don't actually like the wordrare to describe postpartum
psychosis, and I'll just mentionthat briefly, because when we
say that postpartum psychosis israre, I guess we're trying to
(14:58):
state the fact that it doesn'thappen as often as postpartum
depression and postpartumanxiety.
Correct, miranda?
Yes, you got it.
Yeah, but and but what?
What the statistics actuallyare surrounding these conditions
is that postpartum depressionis a very common complication.
It's actually the number onecomplication of childbirth One
(15:20):
in five births, right, and acondition like postpartum
psychosis is less common, and itoccurs in one to two out of
1,000 live births.
That statistic, though, doesn'taccount for the fact that it
can also happen aftermiscarriage, stillbirth and
pregnancy termination, so westill don't have an accurate
(15:40):
statistic for that.
But that being the case, thereason I'm averse to calling it
rare is because it actuallyhappens at the same incidence as
Down syndrome and cerebralpalsy, which we never refer to
as rare, and so I think thatwhen we call it rare, like it
kind of signals to healthcareproviders in particular, that
they don't really need to be ontop of this because they're
(16:03):
hardly going to see it in clinic.
And that, I feel, was theproblem with why the healthcare
providers couldn't understandand process that what they were
seeing before them was a case ofpostpartum psychosis, because
they're like, oh my God, we'llnever see that Right.
(16:26):
And the reality of the situationis you, what differentiates
postpartum depression frompostpartum psychosis, which is
so important?
Because the reality is that alot of people with postpartum
psychosis will also experience alot of symptoms of other PMADS
perinatal mood and anxietydisorders, like postpartum
depression, postpartum anxietyand postpartum OCD.
(16:47):
So they will likely experiencedepressive symptoms, anxiety
symptoms, intrusive thoughts,and I think I mentioned that in
my story.
I was depressed, I was havinganxious thoughts, I was having
intrusive thoughts.
They will also experienceinsomnia and stuff.
But what the hallmark symptomsof postpartum psychosis are that
(17:09):
tell you this is postpartumpsychosis and not postpartum
depression is if a person ishallucinating and or delusional.
If they have either of thosetwo symptoms, it is not
postpartum depression, it is notpostpartum anxiety, it is not
postpartum OCD.
They have postpartum psychosis,which is a psychiatric emergency
(17:29):
.
There's very few psychiatricdisorders that are considered
life-threatening emergencies andpostpartum psychosis is one of
them.
So like for me to be going intothe doctors and telling them
I'm hearing voices, I'm feelinglike something is like forcing
me to harm people and for themto be like you know, this
(17:51):
probably has postpartumdepression, like that's shocking
.
It really speaks to the fact ofhow ignorant people are of this
condition.
Because, like when I, when Isaw my perinatal psychiatrist
and she was like you weretelling the doctors everything
like it's not, like you'rehiding any of your symptoms from
them, and still they couldn'trecognize it for what it was
(18:14):
right.
And that's like the mostimportant thing that providers
should know about.
They should be able torecognize what the hallmark
symptoms of postpartum psychosisare, because if somebody comes
in complaining of experiencingthose symptoms, they need to be
directed to an emergency roomright away because there is a
very, very real risk of suicideand infanticide.
(18:36):
The rates are 5% suicide rateand 4% infanticide rate and risk
.
So does that kind of?
Oh, should I define whathallucinations and delusions are
?
You sure can?
Yeah, so hallucinations are?
People usually think it justmeans seeing and hearing things,
but it actually is not limitedto seeing and hearing things.
(18:57):
It's seeing, hearing, smellingand feeling things that are not
actually there.
So, like in my postpartumpsychosis, I saw things, I heard
voices, I smelled smells thatwere not there.
I felt things happening to me,like things on my body, and
happening to me that weren'tactually happening and that you
(19:19):
know.
Other people were like why isshe, like you know, moving in
that manner?
I felt like I was being pushed,I felt like I was being pulled
and I was reacting in that way.
So hallucinations can be, cantake different forms.
They don't just involve visualand auditory.
They can be olfactory andtactile.
So they're all about thingsexperiencing.
Those kinds of sensations inthe absence of external stimuli.
(19:42):
And delusions are when a personhas a fixed belief that can't
possibly be true, but the personstill believes it, even when
you present evidence to thecontrary.
Like believing you're like theQueen of England, when, like you
know, you're not, like there'sno evidence to that fact, but
you still believe it and youvery viscerally believe it.
(20:02):
So, like I was believing thatmy husband was going to molest
my daughter.
I had no like evidence of it,but it was like internally I was
like, yeah, this is for suregoing to happen.
I thought my family could readand would act on the thoughts in
my mind.
That's not possible forsomebody else to act on somebody
else's thoughts that areinternal to their mind.
But if you told me that wasimpossible, I wouldn't have
(20:25):
believed you, because that washow strong the delusion was.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You are absolutely blowing my mind right now.
First off, I want to say that,first and foremost, I will never
call postpartum psychosis rareagain, because you are a
thousand percent right and justincredibly brave for sharing
your story and I'm just, I'mawestruck by you right now.
I'm literally sitting on theseat, like the edge of my seat
(20:52):
right now, like listening intothis, and I would love to know,
like what you would, what do yousay to providers who are
listening in, who may encountera mother with early warning
signs of postpartum psychosis,or maybe in the thro of it, like
what do they do, what do theynot do?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well, I would say, listen, like completely listen
to what this person is saying,hear them out.
Don't not try to like placethem into like a like you know,
one of those square peg thingslike when you're trying to fit
something in.
Because I really felt like thedoctors that I saw cause they,
they were my GP from like youknow, since I was in my 20s, so
(21:32):
they knew me fairly well andthey were like she's like
intelligent, she's articulate,she's like things she can't
possibly be quote unquote, crazy.
You know what I mean.
Like I think that that's whatwas going on.
People really need to likelisten to what the person is
saying, because when I went backto look at the notes in my
files, I just kept seeingnotations from the five
(21:53):
different doctors about likethey would write things like
patient is very intelligent,patient is articulate, patient
has insight.
But like, where were the notesthat saying that patient is
hearing voices?
Patient is saying that shefeels like harming people and
wants to be hospitalized.
Like where were those essentialthings in the notes?
They weren't there.
(22:13):
Patient is saying that shefeels like harming people and
wants to be hospitalized Like,where were those essential
things in the notes?
They weren't there.
So I really think that it's soimportant not to let your biases
affect you, like looking at aperson and being like, oh well,
you know, this person's educated, this person.
No, you need to just listen towhat the person is saying.
Well, first of all, be aware ofthis illness.
Listen to what the person issaying Well, first of all, be
aware of this illness.
And then, next of all, afteryou are aware of this illness,
just really listen to what theperson is saying.
(22:35):
Because in a lot of these casesI, like I call myself like a
little bit of a pee pee peestalker, in the sense that I'm
always reading news stories andI have my Google Alerts set to
like things like infanticide,and when I read these stories,
my story is not my own story.
A lot of those cases ofinfanticide, 90% of those
(22:57):
mothers they sought help.
How sad is that.
They reckon, even in theirinsanity, like me, they
recognize that something waswrong and the same people that
were there that could havehelped them didn't Like.
To me, that is.
That is the ultimate tragedy.
Somebody who is literally notin control of their mind has
(23:19):
enough sense to be likesomething's not right and then
they keep getting dismissed likethat.
That is so like heartbreaking tome and to know that, like I
felt like I had a duty to writethis book, because a lot of
those women who had tragicoutcomes to their cases either
they took their own lives orthey took the lives of their
(23:39):
children are and are nowcurrently incarcerated.
I wanted to do justice to theirstories because I was fortunate
enough that mine didn't endthat way, although it very, very
easily could have my.
My psychiatrist, who also hasdone forensics.
She said like you know what,like you were a hair's breadth
from being a story like that,because you were feeling like
(24:01):
stabbing your daughter.
You were feeling like, you know, shoving people into the street
, like those were all the thingsthat and that, and I was crying
and begging to be hospitalizedand they wouldn't hospitalize me
.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Can we talk about your healing journey, not just
the crisis, but the recovery?
What were the things, thepeople, the practices that
helped you most in reclaimingyour life?
What did the providers do?
Obviously, the ones did nothing, but the one who recognized,
like whoa, we got to dosomething.
(24:33):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, so basically the number one thing that helped
was getting on antipsychoticmedication.
The right medication is whathelped.
Like I was so astounded by howquickly like I would say within
two weeks I was like reversingthrough my symptoms and by three
months I was able to get off ofthat medication.
(24:55):
Can you believe that Like atone point I was taking like 18
pills a day for like threemonths and then I was able to
wean off of them Because aftermy psychosis, after all of that
like got controlled, I was ableto come off of that medication.
And then I had to continue withan antidepressant for like a
year and a half and then I wasallowed to wean off of that too.
(25:18):
So medication is the number onething that is absolutely
necessary for postpartumpsychosis.
And then after that, like youknow, after that, you know,
going to therapy and stuff isreally important.
In my case it was superimportant because I had so much
PTSD from from being dismissedand from the fact that my
(25:41):
psychosis was allowed to get sobad.
You know I had so much PTSDfrom that, so I needed a lot of
you know therapy, which mypsychiatrist also provided.
So that was really good and inmy case, what really kind of
helped was just learning as muchas I could about postpartum
psychosis.
I really wanted to know, likewhat was this thing that
(26:04):
happened to me and why, and justeducating myself about it
really helped me, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, that was a really big part of my journey
too, through postpartumdepression and anxiety and rage
and postpartum bipolar, and sothat was absolutely essential
and my journey is like gettingthe help, getting you know,
practicing all the tools I hadto change my lifestyle so much.
I don't know if that was partof your journey too, especially
(26:32):
in terms of like getting off themedication to be well enough,
to like be able to do that andthen like really educate myself,
like that was a huge componentto healing and recovering of
like what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah for sure, like I mean, I'd always been the
type of person that tried toalways like have like a clean
lifestyle.
I was, you know, never the typeof person like even like I was
like, oh, I don't want to beaddicted to caffeine, I don't
want to like you know, I wasalways like that and I think
that you know I do.
I'm such a big like proponentof things like juicing and
(27:06):
things like that.
But I think just having like ahealthy lifestyle in every type
of manner, in terms of just likeemotionally everything, was
like super important.
And my psychiatrist taught meto, you know, take time for
myself and engage in activitiesthat that that would would,
would make me happy and make mefeel at peace, like swimming or
(27:28):
whatever.
It was that that that broughtme that sense of like wholeness,
you know.
So engaging in all of thosekinds of stuff also really
helped.
But I think the most importantfor me was having a doctor that
actually listened to what washappening so it could diagnose
me correctly and get me on themedications that that that would
help, you know, stop what wasgoing on with me.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Here in my home, alaska, there'sso many limited options and
there's like and I just want tobring this up really quickly
because I know a lot of peoplestruggle with this immensely
where they go to their providerand they're like oh well, you
have psychosis and I knowseveral stories here locally
(28:12):
where that has occurred and thenthey're like you need to go
immediately to the hospital.
So they go to the hospital andthen the hospital says that you
know, our emergency room saysthat we don't have anything here
for you, like we can't doanything for you, so you're
going to have to go talk to theyou know your provider and
they're like but my providerjust told me to come here and
(28:33):
like it goes back and forth andthere's real support system.
There's no, no one has thetools here in this state.
Even those who are trained inperinatal mental health.
They don't have the ability tohelp with psychosis, or or they
feel as if they are too liable,like it's too much of a risk for
(28:56):
this to hold onto a patient whohas psychosis, and so they they
want to refer out, and so theywant to refer out.
And the only way to refer outis out of state inpatient care,
which often and when we'retalking about postpartum
psychosis they don't want yourbaby to be a part of that which
is also extremely detrimental,and we have studies that show
(29:19):
that even women who havepostpartum psychosis need to be
with their babies.
They just need to be supportedmore and watched and cared for.
It's actually more detrimentalto their mental health if their
babies are taken away or they'reseparated from them.
So you know, having these toolsthat are ready, and so that
(29:41):
when you do have a client, youknow exactly what you're going
to do when they walk into youroffice and say I need help where
this thing is happening to me.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, yeah, and it's really sad that in North America
we we don't really have thosemother baby units that they have
in the UK and in lots of othercountries.
You know, like that would bethe ideal, but like, even
without having a mother babyunit, like in my story, I
actually never was hospitalizedand it was actually in.
(30:13):
And I know sometimes people arelike, oh, I wish I wasn't
hospitalized but honestly itwould have made my suffering a
lot less.
Like because when you havesomebody with postpartum
psychosis and you hospitalhospitalize them, they can be
stabilized very quickly, likewithin a day.
So, um, like I mean I have, Istill have, like 20 years after
(30:34):
I still have nightmares fromlike you know, like the stuff
that that I hallucinated, saw,the experiences that I had.
I still am very much afraid ofthat, of that moment in in time.
So like it's like reallyshocking to me to see, to hear
that like like hospitals wouldbe sending women home, because I
(30:56):
would think that they would bemore liable in that way, because
if they actually got sent homeand did something, then they
would be held liable.
That's why I always tell umpatients, I always tell them um
who come to me, like, who cometo me and ask me for advice,
like they're, like I think myloved one has postpartum
psychosis.
I always tell them take them tothe emergency room and say that
(31:17):
to them, because then they'llhave to write that in their
report and they can't releaseyou because they will look they
can be held liable for releasingsomebody who is whose family
members expressed concern thatthey had postpartum psychosis.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
This is.
This is brilliant.
This is absolutely amazing, andyou wrote a book like you wrote
a book on this.
Can you tell everybody whatthat book is and what you're
hoping people will learn fromwhat you've written?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, so my book is called A Mom Like that A Memoir
of Postpartum Psychosis.
I know it's a controversialtitle and I specifically chose
that title for a reason becausepeople I've heard people have
conversations where they'll talkabout, like you know, I'm
overwhelmed, I'm like this, I'mhaving rage, but you know I'm
not a mom like that and they'llreference, like you know, some
(32:06):
mom that has committedinfanticide and it always used
to make me feel sad because Iwould be like but I am a mom
like that, like I had postpartumpsychosis and I had those kinds
of thoughts or feelings orwhatever.
And it doesn't make me a badmom, it just meant that I was
really sick, right?
So I wanted people to kind ofthink about that thing of what
(32:28):
is a mom like that?
When you think about, when youthink about calling a woman that
has had a tragic outcome to herpostpartum cycles a story, a
mom like that issue.
I want people to read my bookand think are you really that
different from me?
Because when you read my bookand you see everything that I
was thinking, everything that Iwas saying, everything that I
was trying to do to get myselfhelp, like, do you do people
(32:50):
really think that they're thatmuch different from me and would
they have acted much differentfrom me if they had gone through
what I had went through?
So you know, my book is.
The hope with my book is that itwill increase awareness of this
condition.
It'll give voice to women whohave not made it out of this
condition and taken their ownlives.
(33:11):
It will give voice to women whohave had tragic outcomes and
taken and harmed their ownchildren.
And I want people to understandwhere, what can make somebody
do something like that and howthis illness really messes with
your mind and makes you actuallythink that this is something
(33:32):
that you have to and need to do.
And I also just wanted to showhealth care providers how much
suffering can be caused becauseof their own ignorance of a
condition like this, like youknow, their own liability in in
these, in these tragedies, when,if they remain ignorant.
And then the last thing wasjust to increase public
(33:53):
awareness of it.
Like I had like four reasonsfor writing my book and that
that was the four reasons.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
This is incredible.
Again, you are absolutelyblowing my mind, aisha, and I am
so grateful for you, and Ican't wait to share this book
with the world, literally.
I have some big plans in mymind of how this is going to
happen, but if you haven't readit, please, please, please, go
get this book and I'm going tolink that in the show notes here
(34:21):
.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I also wanted to send you a link that anybody can
read the first five chapters ofmy book for free, and I'll send
you that link to put in yourshow notes as well.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Oh my gosh, you're amazing.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you so much, I appreciate you, thank you, and I
appreciate all the work thatyou do as well.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Thank you, and I appreciate allpartumu the letter
ucom which is in the show notes, and if you found today's
episode valuable, please leave areview to help us reach more
providers like you.
Together, we're building afuture where mothers are fully
supported and thriving.
The postpartum care system is failing, leaving
countless mothers strugglingwith depression, anxiety and
autoimmune conditions.
I'm Miranda Bauer and I'vehelped thousands of providers
use holistic care practices toheal their clients at the root.
Subscribe now and join us inaddressing what modern medicine
(00:22):
overlooks, so that you can giveyour clients real, lasting
solutions for lifelongwell-being.
Hey, hey everyone, welcome tothe podcast.
Miranda Bauer here, postpartumUniversity, and we have a very
special guest, aisha Alvi.
She is a postpartum psychosisawareness advocate and writer.
(00:45):
She has a new book, a Mom Likethat.
It's a memoir for postpartumpsychosis, and it was recently
released.
I highly recommend taking alook at that.
You can follow her awarenessefforts at Ayesha Alvey writes
and I'll have that in the shownotes for you.
But this is such a profound andbeautiful conversation, but I
(01:07):
will tell you right away alittle bit of a trigger warning,
because we are going to getinto Aisha's experience with
psychosis.
She is a mother who'sexperienced this herself and has
lived through something mostproviders only read about in
textbooks.
Aisha, I want to give you a big,big welcome and thank you so
(01:31):
much from the bottom of my heartfor sharing your story and your
journey here, which is sobeautiful and so profound in
terms of, like, getting this outinto the world and sharing this
, because it is not an easything to do this out into the
world and sharing this becauseit is not an easy thing to do.
It takes a lot of guts and willand just everything in between
to be able to share your storyand what you have been through.
(01:56):
And I'd love to open up notonly with a welcome but also to
ask what did you most need fromyour care team that maybe you
didn't receive?
Maybe you can share a littlebit more of your story because,
again, this is something thatmost people only read about or
hear about on the news and I'dreally love to help providers
(02:17):
kind of reflect on the realhumanness and the impact of how
care is delivered.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, and thank you so much for the warm welcome,
miranda, and I really appreciateyou allowing me to be here,
because without platforms likeyours, the awareness wouldn't be
able to even get out, like Imean, I could be willing to
share my story, but if thereweren't platforms like yours out
there, it wouldn't get anywhere.
(02:45):
So I really, really want tothank you for that, this
opportunity, and I think youbegan in a really good way in
terms of, like, what did I needfrom providers?
And I think that that willbecome very clear when I retell
some of my story.
So I think I think I'll startwith a little bit of my story,
if that's okay, and then thatwill come right to what I would
(03:08):
have wanted from providers.
So, to begin, I just wanted topoint out that I did have
experienced postpartum psychosistwice, one after the birth of
my daughter and the second timewas after a miscarriage at like
14 weeks.
So I never had any mentalhealth issues prior to
(03:30):
postpartum, to experiencingpostpartum.
I you know I was probably thetype of kid that was like a
little bit on the worried side,but I never had like nothing
that ever restricted my life inany way.
So I was pretty much, like youknow, no previous mental health
issues or anything.
I was a very healthy kid,adolescent and adult.
(03:51):
And then I got pregnant, whichwas something that I was really
looking forward to.
I really wanted to have mychild and my pregnancy was
relatively, you know, uneventfulit was.
I enjoyed being pregnant, itwas.
I was very much looking forwardto having my baby.
And really soon after I gavebirth I started to feel
(04:12):
depressed and super anxious andI kind of didn't really think
much of it, because you know, wealways hear about the baby
blues and stuff like that.
So nobody in my family was tooconcerned and I myself wasn't
that concerned because I knewabout the baby blues.
But then, you know, like thedepression was getting a little
like more severe and like I wasfeeling like really like always
(04:33):
weepy and I started to have likesuper anxious thoughts about,
like you know, is my babygetting enough to drink, and
just like worries that I waskind of becoming obsessive about
.
And then, pretty soon afterthat, I started to experience
intrusive thoughts, like Istarted having thoughts about my
baby drowning or like my baby'shead like being, you know, like
(04:54):
smashed and I didn't know it atthe time because they were
extremely frightening toexperience these intrusive
thoughts.
But they're actually verycommon symptoms and about 90% of
moms in the postpartum periodand a lot of fathers to
experience intrusive thoughts.
So I started having some ofthat.
But then very soon after thatlike I mean, a few days after
(05:17):
the intrusive thoughts started Istarted believing some really
strange things.
Like I started thinking that myfamily would start to act on
the intrusive thoughts in myhead.
So I didn't think that theywere having the thoughts.
I thought they were in my headbut I thought that they would
act on them and that was apretty strange kind of thought.
And then, you know, I startedto slowly, things started to
(05:42):
evolve more and I started tothink that my baby wasn't really
a baby.
And I started to think that mybaby wasn't really a baby and I
started to think that maybe shewas like a grown adult that was
pretending to be a baby.
And then at one point I startedto think that my husband had
plans to molest my daughter.
And even though I had thesestrange beliefs which are
actually called delusions, Ididn't know they were called
(06:04):
that, but strange beliefs arecalled delusions and, like
strange beliefs which areactually called delusions.
I didn't know they were calledthat, but strange beliefs are
called delusions and likestrange beliefs that have no
evidence to substantiate it,they're called delusions.
And so I have these strangebeliefs but I didn't realize
that something was wrong aboutthe beliefs that I was having
and I wasn't sharing them withanybody in my family.
But my family did notice that,that that there was something
(06:26):
off about me in terms of likethe way I was behaving and stuff
, because you know, I didn'treally look like I wanted to
share my baby with them, of likeattacked him and started
punching him in the headrandomly.
So my family was like there'ssomething not right about me and
(06:50):
they took me to the doctor,like I would say, maybe like two
or three times.
They took me in and you know, Itold them that I wasn't feeling
like myself and stuff like that, but I was never diagnosed with
anything.
This was over 20 years ago,this the first time I had it and
I was never diagnosed.
And then one day, about fourmonths later, I just
spontaneously woke up and I waslike, wow, why did I believe all
(07:11):
those really bizarre thingsabout my family and about my
baby?
And it just suddenly got betterand I didn't believe those
things anymore.
This is my kind of sound alittle strange, miranda.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
You know what I it's not a story that we hear often,
but it's a story that we hear,yeah, and and I am all for like
sharing this story and yourexperience and again I thank you
so much for doing so like whata crazy story, right.
Like wow, like I was listeningin, like holding on to my chair
(07:52):
what's happening next.
But and it's interestingbecause you're you're sharing
your experience you, you went toget help or your family went to
go get you help and you know, Ihad my oldest is almost 16
years old and I feel like thehelp that we had so many years
ago is like very different thanthe help that we have now.
(08:15):
Like we have so many moreoptions.
I don't know if you feel that,but I know that you have another
story as well.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Yeah, Miscarriage, yeah.
So if you thought that part wascrazy, like it just got even
worse the second time.
So what happened is that?
Like, even though I didn't gethelp the first time, you know, I
spontaneously got better fourmonths later and like I was kind
of like wondering, why did Ithink those things?
And but because of thatexperience, I was really really
(08:43):
scared of having another child,even though I wanted that
experience.
I was really really scared ofhaving another child, even
though I wanted another child.
I was really scared because Ididn't understand what what that
whole four months had beenabout.
Like I remembered the thingsthat I thought, but I didn't
know why that happened to me.
But you know, like when mydaughter turned like like four
or five years old, I I started,like you know, having baby fever
(09:05):
and I was like, oh, everybodyelse had baby, had their second
baby, so I really wanted to haveanother child and so I got
pregnant and then, close to fourmonths, at like 14 weeks, I
miscarried and within days ofmiscarrying, within days of my
body releasing my baby, Istarted feeling depressed and
anxious again.
(09:25):
But this time I personallyrecognized like I was like, hey,
this feels exactly like how Ifelt after I had, you know, my
daughter and I was like, okay,this is like feels exactly like
that.
I've never felt like thisoutside of that time.
So I was like there's somethingwrong with me and so I went
right away to try to get helpand I explained to the there's
something wrong with me.
And so I went right away to tryto get help and I explained to
(09:47):
the doctor as best as I couldthat I didn't feel like myself
and even though I had moreinsight into my symptoms and I
this time I seriously thoughtsomething was wrong, rather than
my family thinking thatsomething was wrong I got
dismissed by doctors.
I got dismissed by fivedifferent doctors, like family
(10:08):
physician, the doctor that haddelivered my baby, psychologist.
Like I tried all a gamut ofdifferent doctors and I
literally kept getting dismissedand so my symptoms kept
escalating and I again began tothink strange things.
Like I had this thought thatmaybe my daughter needed to die
(10:30):
so that she could go to heavenand I didn't want her to die.
It was like this thought, thesaying that she needs to die,
and I was like so freaked out byit.
But like, when that happened, Iwent to the doctor and I was
like I'm having really bizarrethoughts that are frightening me
and I want it to stop, kind ofthing.
And I got dismissed You're fine.
And then my family started alsonoticing that I was behaving
(10:52):
super bizarrely in response tothese symptoms, and so they
continued to take me to doctorsand my symptoms kept escalating
to the point that, rather thanit just being limited to
delusions which was likethinking false things I started
this time hearing voices andseeing things.
I heard command hallucinationsthat demanded that I stab my
(11:16):
daughter.
They demanded that I harm otherpeople.
And again I tried to go to thedoctor and I told them literally
I am hearing voices that aretelling me to do things and
they're frightening me.
There I feel like harmingpeople and I don't want to harm
people.
Please can you hospitalize me.
And they sent me home.
(11:38):
They literally sent me home,home.
So eventually I saw a sixthdoctor that was a perinatal
psychiatrist, and then she isthe one that ended up diagnosing
me with postpartum psychosis,and she retroactively diagnosed
me with having had postpartumpsychosis that first time as
well.
But like the first time, mypostpartum psychosis lasted four
(12:00):
months and I fortunatelyspontaneously recovered.
But the second time, when itwas worse, like with those
command hallucinations, likedemanding and literally like
forcing me to harm my daughterand other people as well, like I
was forced to suffer with thosesymptoms for like one and a
half months, even though I keptbegging doctors to help me, help
(12:20):
me, and like that wholeexperience is like.
Like the fact that, like Isuffered for so long, I nearly
lost my life and my child's lifebecause of this illness and
because of the ignorancesurrounding this condition, is
what made me like really want tobecome an advocate and raise
awareness of postpartumpsychosis.
Because the reality is that youknow, like there's so much
(12:44):
ignorance about this conditionand what I would have wanted
doctors that I went to to knowis know that this illness exists
.
You know, frankly, know that itexists so that you can help
somebody that's seeking help.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
You know, I think right now, most of our education
for postpartum psychosisrevolves solely on what we hear
on the news.
And that's really frightening,right, because I think we're not
given the information that weneed.
But the reality of it is thatthere's hardly any information
out there when you start lookingat the studies and I've talked
(13:21):
to a lot of clinicalpsychologists and people who are
in the field of mental healthand it's like this is new, we
haven't studied this before andwe're having a hard time
differentiating between, youknow, other postpartum illnesses
and mental health versus whatpsychosis is, and where do we
draw the line?
And so we don't even know thatclinically yet.
(13:44):
We're still learning about it.
So it's so incredibly importantthat you're sharing this story
and I'd love to know, like Ihear this so often mothers who
are terrified of postpartumpsychosis, especially after
something that we hear in thenews, right, something that's
very newsworthy, very scary,very horrific Right pops up and
(14:06):
it's like, oh, she hadpostpartum psychosis and she
tried to get the help but shedidn't, and she was having these
feelings, and then there's alot of misconceptions about okay
, what, what if I have that, youknow?
And and really, what they'reexperiencing is depression and
anxiety right?
How do we differentiate betweenwhat are these typical things
(14:28):
that we normally see depressionand anxiety versus something
that is a lot more rare butstill happens, as in postpartum
psychosis?
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Yeah, so that's such a good question, because
apparently that was a problemthat the doctors that I kept
going to were having.
So one of the things like thisis just like my pet peeve.
I don't actually like the wordrare to describe postpartum
psychosis, and I'll just mentionthat briefly, because when we
say that postpartum psychosis israre, I guess we're trying to
(14:58):
state the fact that it doesn'thappen as often as postpartum
depression and postpartumanxiety.
Correct, miranda?
Yes, you got it.
Yeah, but and but what?
What the statistics actuallyare surrounding these conditions
is that postpartum depressionis a very common complication.
It's actually the number onecomplication of childbirth One
(15:20):
in five births, right, and acondition like postpartum
psychosis is less common, and itoccurs in one to two out of
1,000 live births.
That statistic, though, doesn'taccount for the fact that it
can also happen aftermiscarriage, stillbirth and
pregnancy termination, so westill don't have an accurate
(15:40):
statistic for that.
But that being the case, thereason I'm averse to calling it
rare is because it actuallyhappens at the same incidence as
Down syndrome and cerebralpalsy, which we never refer to
as rare, and so I think thatwhen we call it rare, like it
kind of signals to healthcareproviders in particular, that
they don't really need to be ontop of this because they're
(16:03):
hardly going to see it in clinic.
And that, I feel, was theproblem with why the healthcare
providers couldn't understandand process that what they were
seeing before them was a case ofpostpartum psychosis, because
they're like, oh my God, we'llnever see that Right.
(16:26):
And the reality of the situationis you, what differentiates
postpartum depression frompostpartum psychosis, which is
so important?
Because the reality is that alot of people with postpartum
psychosis will also experience alot of symptoms of other PMADS
perinatal mood and anxietydisorders, like postpartum
depression, postpartum anxietyand postpartum OCD.
(16:47):
So they will likely experiencedepressive symptoms, anxiety
symptoms, intrusive thoughts,and I think I mentioned that in
my story.
I was depressed, I was havinganxious thoughts, I was having
intrusive thoughts.
They will also experienceinsomnia and stuff.
But what the hallmark symptomsof postpartum psychosis are that
(17:09):
tell you this is postpartumpsychosis and not postpartum
depression is if a person ishallucinating and or delusional.
If they have either of thosetwo symptoms, it is not
postpartum depression, it is notpostpartum anxiety, it is not
postpartum OCD.
They have postpartum psychosis,which is a psychiatric emergency
(17:29):
.
There's very few psychiatricdisorders that are considered
life-threatening emergencies andpostpartum psychosis is one of
them.
So like for me to be going intothe doctors and telling them
I'm hearing voices, I'm feelinglike something is like forcing
me to harm people and for themto be like you know, this
(17:51):
probably has postpartumdepression, like that's shocking
.
It really speaks to the fact ofhow ignorant people are of this
condition.
Because, like when I, when Isaw my perinatal psychiatrist
and she was like you weretelling the doctors everything
like it's not, like you'rehiding any of your symptoms from
them, and still they couldn'trecognize it for what it was
(18:14):
right.
And that's like the mostimportant thing that providers
should know about.
They should be able torecognize what the hallmark
symptoms of postpartum psychosisare, because if somebody comes
in complaining of experiencingthose symptoms, they need to be
directed to an emergency roomright away because there is a
very, very real risk of suicideand infanticide.
(18:36):
The rates are 5% suicide rateand 4% infanticide rate and risk
.
So does that kind of?
Oh, should I define whathallucinations and delusions are
?
You sure can?
Yeah, so hallucinations are?
People usually think it justmeans seeing and hearing things,
but it actually is not limitedto seeing and hearing things.
(18:57):
It's seeing, hearing, smellingand feeling things that are not
actually there.
So, like in my postpartumpsychosis, I saw things, I heard
voices, I smelled smells thatwere not there.
I felt things happening to me,like things on my body, and
happening to me that weren'tactually happening and that you
(19:19):
know.
Other people were like why isshe, like you know, moving in
that manner?
I felt like I was being pushed,I felt like I was being pulled
and I was reacting in that way.
So hallucinations can be, cantake different forms.
They don't just involve visualand auditory.
They can be olfactory andtactile.
So they're all about thingsexperiencing.
Those kinds of sensations inthe absence of external stimuli.
(19:42):
And delusions are when a personhas a fixed belief that can't
possibly be true, but the personstill believes it, even when
you present evidence to thecontrary.
Like believing you're like theQueen of England, when, like you
know, you're not, like there'sno evidence to that fact, but
you still believe it and youvery viscerally believe it.
(20:02):
So, like I was believing thatmy husband was going to molest
my daughter.
I had no like evidence of it,but it was like internally I was
like, yeah, this is for suregoing to happen.
I thought my family could readand would act on the thoughts in
my mind.
That's not possible forsomebody else to act on somebody
else's thoughts that areinternal to their mind.
But if you told me that wasimpossible, I wouldn't have
(20:25):
believed you, because that washow strong the delusion was.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
You are absolutely blowing my mind right now.
First off, I want to say that,first and foremost, I will never
call postpartum psychosis rareagain, because you are a
thousand percent right and justincredibly brave for sharing
your story and I'm just, I'mawestruck by you right now.
I'm literally sitting on theseat, like the edge of my seat
(20:52):
right now, like listening intothis, and I would love to know,
like what you would, what do yousay to providers who are
listening in, who may encountera mother with early warning
signs of postpartum psychosis,or maybe in the thro of it, like
what do they do, what do theynot do?
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Well, I would say, listen, like completely listen
to what this person is saying,hear them out.
Don't not try to like placethem into like a like you know,
one of those square peg thingslike when you're trying to fit
something in.
Because I really felt like thedoctors that I saw cause they,
they were my GP from like youknow, since I was in my 20s, so
(21:32):
they knew me fairly well andthey were like she's like
intelligent, she's articulate,she's like things she can't
possibly be quote unquote, crazy.
You know what I mean.
Like I think that that's whatwas going on.
People really need to likelisten to what the person is
saying, because when I went backto look at the notes in my
files, I just kept seeingnotations from the five
(21:53):
different doctors about likethey would write things like
patient is very intelligent,patient is articulate, patient
has insight.
But like, where were the notesthat saying that patient is
hearing voices?
Patient is saying that shefeels like harming people and
wants to be hospitalized.
Like where were those essentialthings in the notes?
They weren't there.
(22:13):
Patient is saying that shefeels like harming people and
wants to be hospitalized Like,where were those essential
things in the notes?
They weren't there.
So I really think that it's soimportant not to let your biases
affect you, like looking at aperson and being like, oh well,
you know, this person's educated, this person.
No, you need to just listen towhat the person is saying.
Well, first of all, be aware ofthis illness.
Listen to what the person issaying Well, first of all, be
aware of this illness.
And then, next of all, afteryou are aware of this illness,
just really listen to what theperson is saying.
(22:35):
Because in a lot of these casesI, like I call myself like a
little bit of a pee pee peestalker, in the sense that I'm
always reading news stories andI have my Google Alerts set to
like things like infanticide,and when I read these stories,
my story is not my own story.
A lot of those cases ofinfanticide, 90% of those
(22:57):
mothers they sought help.
How sad is that.
They reckon, even in theirinsanity, like me, they
recognize that something waswrong and the same people that
were there that could havehelped them didn't Like.
To me, that is.
That is the ultimate tragedy.
Somebody who is literally notin control of their mind has
(23:19):
enough sense to be likesomething's not right and then
they keep getting dismissed likethat.
That is so like heartbreaking tome and to know that, like I
felt like I had a duty to writethis book, because a lot of
those women who had tragicoutcomes to their cases either
they took their own lives orthey took the lives of their
(23:39):
children are and are nowcurrently incarcerated.
I wanted to do justice to theirstories because I was fortunate
enough that mine didn't endthat way, although it very, very
easily could have my.
My psychiatrist, who also hasdone forensics.
She said like you know what,like you were a hair's breadth
from being a story like that,because you were feeling like
(24:01):
stabbing your daughter.
You were feeling like, you know, shoving people into the street
, like those were all the thingsthat and that, and I was crying
and begging to be hospitalizedand they wouldn't hospitalize me
.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Can we talk about your healing journey, not just
the crisis, but the recovery?
What were the things, thepeople, the practices that
helped you most in reclaimingyour life?
What did the providers do?
Obviously, the ones did nothing, but the one who recognized,
like whoa, we got to dosomething.
(24:33):
What happened?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, so basically the number one thing that helped
was getting on antipsychoticmedication.
The right medication is whathelped.
Like I was so astounded by howquickly like I would say within
two weeks I was like reversingthrough my symptoms and by three
months I was able to get off ofthat medication.
(24:55):
Can you believe that Like atone point I was taking like 18
pills a day for like threemonths and then I was able to
wean off of them Because aftermy psychosis, after all of that
like got controlled, I was ableto come off of that medication.
And then I had to continue withan antidepressant for like a
year and a half and then I wasallowed to wean off of that too.
(25:18):
So medication is the number onething that is absolutely
necessary for postpartumpsychosis.
And then after that, like youknow, after that, you know,
going to therapy and stuff isreally important.
In my case it was superimportant because I had so much
PTSD from from being dismissedand from the fact that my
(25:41):
psychosis was allowed to get sobad.
You know I had so much PTSDfrom that, so I needed a lot of
you know therapy, which mypsychiatrist also provided.
So that was really good and inmy case, what really kind of
helped was just learning as muchas I could about postpartum
psychosis.
I really wanted to know, likewhat was this thing that
(26:04):
happened to me and why, and justeducating myself about it
really helped me, I think.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Yeah, that was a really big part of my journey
too, through postpartumdepression and anxiety and rage
and postpartum bipolar, and sothat was absolutely essential
and my journey is like gettingthe help, getting you know,
practicing all the tools I hadto change my lifestyle so much.
I don't know if that was partof your journey too, especially
(26:32):
in terms of like getting off themedication to be well enough,
to like be able to do that andthen like really educate myself,
like that was a huge componentto healing and recovering of
like what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah for sure, like I mean, I'd always been the
type of person that tried toalways like have like a clean
lifestyle.
I was, you know, never the typeof person like even like I was
like, oh, I don't want to beaddicted to caffeine, I don't
want to like you know, I wasalways like that and I think
that you know I do.
I'm such a big like proponentof things like juicing and
(27:06):
things like that.
But I think just having like ahealthy lifestyle in every type
of manner, in terms of just likeemotionally everything, was
like super important.
And my psychiatrist taught meto, you know, take time for
myself and engage in activitiesthat that that would would,
would make me happy and make mefeel at peace, like swimming or
(27:28):
whatever.
It was that that that broughtme that sense of like wholeness,
you know.
So engaging in all of thosekinds of stuff also really
helped.
But I think the most importantfor me was having a doctor that
actually listened to what washappening so it could diagnose
me correctly and get me on themedications that that that would
help, you know, stop what wasgoing on with me.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Here in my home, alaska, there'sso many limited options and
there's like and I just want tobring this up really quickly
because I know a lot of peoplestruggle with this immensely
where they go to their providerand they're like oh well, you
have psychosis and I knowseveral stories here locally
(28:12):
where that has occurred and thenthey're like you need to go
immediately to the hospital.
So they go to the hospital andthen the hospital says that you
know, our emergency room saysthat we don't have anything here
for you, like we can't doanything for you, so you're
going to have to go talk to theyou know your provider and
they're like but my providerjust told me to come here and
(28:33):
like it goes back and forth andthere's real support system.
There's no, no one has thetools here in this state.
Even those who are trained inperinatal mental health.
They don't have the ability tohelp with psychosis, or or they
feel as if they are too liable,like it's too much of a risk for
(28:56):
this to hold onto a patient whohas psychosis, and so they they
want to refer out, and so theywant to refer out.
And the only way to refer outis out of state inpatient care,
which often and when we'retalking about postpartum
psychosis they don't want yourbaby to be a part of that which
is also extremely detrimental,and we have studies that show
(29:19):
that even women who havepostpartum psychosis need to be
with their babies.
They just need to be supportedmore and watched and cared for.
It's actually more detrimentalto their mental health if their
babies are taken away or they'reseparated from them.
So you know, having these toolsthat are ready, and so that
(29:41):
when you do have a client, youknow exactly what you're going
to do when they walk into youroffice and say I need help where
this thing is happening to me.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, yeah, and it's really sad that in North America
we we don't really have thosemother baby units that they have
in the UK and in lots of othercountries.
You know, like that would bethe ideal, but like, even
without having a mother babyunit, like in my story, I
actually never was hospitalizedand it was actually in.
(30:13):
And I know sometimes people arelike, oh, I wish I wasn't
hospitalized but honestly itwould have made my suffering a
lot less.
Like because when you havesomebody with postpartum
psychosis and you hospitalhospitalize them, they can be
stabilized very quickly, likewithin a day.
So, um, like I mean I have, Istill have, like 20 years after
(30:34):
I still have nightmares fromlike you know, like the stuff
that that I hallucinated, saw,the experiences that I had.
I still am very much afraid ofthat, of that moment in in time.
So like it's like reallyshocking to me to see, to hear
that like like hospitals wouldbe sending women home, because I
(30:56):
would think that they would bemore liable in that way, because
if they actually got sent homeand did something, then they
would be held liable.
That's why I always tell umpatients, I always tell them um
who come to me, like, who cometo me and ask me for advice,
like they're, like I think myloved one has postpartum
psychosis.
I always tell them take them tothe emergency room and say that
(31:17):
to them, because then they'llhave to write that in their
report and they can't releaseyou because they will look they
can be held liable for releasingsomebody who is whose family
members expressed concern thatthey had postpartum psychosis.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
This is.
This is brilliant.
This is absolutely amazing, andyou wrote a book like you wrote
a book on this.
Can you tell everybody whatthat book is and what you're
hoping people will learn fromwhat you've written?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, so my book is called A Mom Like that A Memoir
of Postpartum Psychosis.
I know it's a controversialtitle and I specifically chose
that title for a reason becausepeople I've heard people have
conversations where they'll talkabout, like you know, I'm
overwhelmed, I'm like this, I'mhaving rage, but you know I'm
not a mom like that and they'llreference, like you know, some
(32:06):
mom that has committedinfanticide and it always used
to make me feel sad because Iwould be like but I am a mom
like that, like I had postpartumpsychosis and I had those kinds
of thoughts or feelings orwhatever.
And it doesn't make me a badmom, it just meant that I was
really sick, right?
So I wanted people to kind ofthink about that thing of what
(32:28):
is a mom like that?
When you think about, when youthink about calling a woman that
has had a tragic outcome to herpostpartum cycles a story, a
mom like that issue.
I want people to read my bookand think are you really that
different from me?
Because when you read my bookand you see everything that I
was thinking, everything that Iwas saying, everything that I
was trying to do to get myselfhelp, like, do you do people
(32:50):
really think that they're thatmuch different from me and would
they have acted much differentfrom me if they had gone through
what I had went through?
So you know, my book is.
The hope with my book is that itwill increase awareness of this
condition.
It'll give voice to women whohave not made it out of this
condition and taken their ownlives.
(33:11):
It will give voice to women whohave had tragic outcomes and
taken and harmed their ownchildren.
And I want people to understandwhere, what can make somebody
do something like that and howthis illness really messes with
your mind and makes you actuallythink that this is something
(33:32):
that you have to and need to do.
And I also just wanted to showhealth care providers how much
suffering can be caused becauseof their own ignorance of a
condition like this, like youknow, their own liability in in
these, in these tragedies, when,if they remain ignorant.
And then the last thing wasjust to increase public
(33:53):
awareness of it.
Like I had like four reasonsfor writing my book and that
that was the four reasons.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
This is incredible.
Again, you are absolutelyblowing my mind, aisha, and I am
so grateful for you, and Ican't wait to share this book
with the world, literally.
I have some big plans in mymind of how this is going to
happen, but if you haven't readit, please, please, please, go
get this book and I'm going tolink that in the show notes here
(34:21):
.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
I also wanted to send you a link that anybody can
read the first five chapters ofmy book for free, and I'll send
you that link to put in yourshow notes as well.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Oh my gosh, you're amazing.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Thank you so much, I appreciate you, thank you, and I
appreciate all the work thatyou do as well.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Thank you, and I appreciate allpartumu the letter
ucom which is in the show notes, and if you found today's
episode valuable, please leave areview to help us reach more
providers like you.
Together, we're building afuture where mothers are fully
supported and thriving.
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