How Can an Egoscue and Ergonomics Expert Help Your Posture?

We talk to Zeena Dhalla, an Egoscue and Ergonomics expert, about how ergonomics and posture improvements can help you feel better and work better too!

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
So hi everybody, it's James fromPosture Stars and today I'm
talking to Zeena Dhalla who is apremier posture alignment
specialist, certified ergonomicspecialist, personal trainer and
pilates instructor from OrangeCounty, California area. I'm out
of breath just talking about allyour qualifications. Hi, Zeena,
how you doing? Hi, Hi, James.
Thanks for having me here. I'mso happy to be here. I've been

(00:22):
waiting so long to speak to you,because there's a lot of stuff
that we have in common. And Ireally wanted to get an idea
about what it is that you dowith posture and how you help
people with your posture. Soit's a perfect fit for the
Posture Stars, podcast. Soyou're in Orange County,
California, and you're workingwith individuals and with
companies, is that right?
That is correct, yes. So I doposture alignment therapy to the

(00:47):
egoscue method. I also do teachposture workshops for corporate
teams such as Google, Microsoft,Red Bull, other large and small
companies of all sizes. And thenI do virtual ergonomics
sessions, as well as teach avirtual ergonomics workshop. And
then my company also also has adesk exercise programme that we
implement, both for individualsand for corporations, perfect.

(01:09):
And this is this is the idealtime for companies to be getting
into that post COVID whenthey're starting to have hybrid
workforce. And so we're reallyin need of that sort of thing.
But don't get me going on. SoI'll be moaning about it for
half an hour on our podcast. SoI have a series of questions
that I like to ask posturespecialists. And the first
question, let's get right on itis Zeena, what is posture?

(01:32):
Posture is how you sit and standand move in space. So one of the
mistakes that people make whenworking with me through the
egoscue method. And for those ofyou who don't know, the egoscue
method is a form of posturalalignment therapy, it's the form
of therapy that I practice isthat in our practice, we often
take pictures, steal pictures,and we watch people in awkward
positions. Or people come in andsay, Well, I look so rounded in

(01:55):
my pictures, and I take pictureswith family or friends. And they
assume it has to do about theirstatic posture. But it's really
so much more than that. So muchof so much of it is involved
with how we move, how we walk,how we stand, and that how we
sit and work at our workstation.
And that can contribute to howour muscles work, how our joints
work, but also can contribute tohow we feel about ourselves. You
know, if you're slouched overall day long, in a posterior

(02:17):
pelvic tilt, that can make youfeel downey and slouchy and
fatigued. So it really canencompass the entire body,
physical and mental as well.
Yeah, totally. I have thisdiscussion loads of times. And
sometimes people counter it andsay, Well, no, they say,
improving your posture isn'tgoing to make you happier and
more confident, it's just goingto change how you are

(02:39):
physically. And I say, Well, youknow, we'll try and take your
body to the supermarket withoutyour brain and try and take your
brain without your body they'rekind of kind of intermeshed. And
there's a lot of good researchout there. And there's a lot of
bad research out there. But atthe end of the day, if you hold
yourself, well, I think you feelbetter about it. And you
certainly feel more confident.
Yeah, you present yourselfbetter to the universe, you feel

(03:01):
better. Everything tends to workbetter things from your jaw,
your eyes, your neck, I mean,everything can work better your
digestion significantly can workbetter if your body is in the
most optimal alignment. So weaim for optimal alignment,
because that's when we have themost efficiency in the body,
when we can work better standbetter, walk better, all those
things. But yeah, it can reallyimpact so many things. The body

(03:25):
achieves what the mind believesit's my favourite quote of all
the body and mind in ourinteractions. I mean, if you've
ever been nervous in your life,James, if you ever were nervous
meeting me today, and you got alittle butterflies in your
stomach, you know, obviouslythere is a link between how we
feel and what is happening inour brain, you know, so we have
to take that into our posture aswell.
Yeah, totally. So speaking oftaking it into your posture,

(03:48):
what exactly do you do? How doyou help people to improve their
posture?
Yeah, so my goal is to give themthe tools that they can utilise
to help improve their bodies.
So. So like I said, we'll meetone on one with somebody, we'll
take a look at their pictures,we'll look at them walk, we'll
look at them bend, then we'll dosome functional testing. And
then I designed a home basedexercise routine for them. So

(04:10):
and what makes the egoscuemethod unique is we'll have
certain stretches that will holdone side or the other, or we'll
have certain exercises that maybe a full body exercise that we
are integrating a lot ofdifferent muscle groups, we may
have an exercise that has anisolation aspect to it. So we're
only going to work the gluteshere and nothing else. But then
we also have a series ofexercises where we'll get

(04:31):
someone to lay in a position foranywhere from five minutes to 60
minutes and allow thegravitational force and reading
to realign the body. And I thinkthat's the missing link and a
lot of corrective exerciseprogrammes that the egoscue
method has is that again, mentalpiece of it. Sometimes what it
takes is for us to relax for usto allow the universe to shift

(04:53):
us into a new position and grantby that I mean gravitational
force, right. So So, you know,I'll design this exercise
programme for them, they'll goaway, they'll do it every single
day on their own. And then theycome back a week later,
sometimes two weeks later,depending on the client, we'll
reassess. How are they feeling?
How are they walking? How arethey standing, where's their
pain level, and then we'lladjust that design. And so the

(05:16):
goal is to give them a menu ofexercises anywhere from 15
minutes to against 60 minutes,depending on their life and
their schedule, and where theyare and their pain. And for them
to continue to do thoseexercises on a day to day basis.
And it is like brushing yourteeth. I mean, your posture work
is something that I feel like weall need to be doing on a day to
day basis because of ourlifestyles, because our

(05:37):
lifestyles are so stationary, soOh rounded forward at a
computer, that I'm of thephilosophy that even if they're
not working with me, they mighthave 1, 2, 3 exercises that they
keep in their back pocketforever, that will always help
them just bring that body backinto better alignment.
Yeah. So I mean, what what I'vebeen tending to do now is having

(05:58):
people take parts of theirworking day and have as part of
their job working on sortingtheir posture posture out,
because otherwise, you know, itneeds to be a daily thing. You
can't just say, I'm going tochange my posture. And then 10
minutes later, well, yeah, youchanged your posture for 10
minutes.
Right? Exactly. So there's somany elements of that. So to to

(06:19):
reflect on a comment you saidabout throughout the day. The
other thing we do with thecorporate work is teach people
how to do this throughout theworkday. So if someone's working
with me one on one, theexercises we're going to give
out might be exercises on thefloor, or using a wall or using
a block or something thatrequires some equipment and some
time away from the workstation.
But when I'm dealing withcorporate clients, or in big
teams, then the exercises we'reteaching them have to do with

(06:42):
either sitting or standing attheir workstation. So it may not
be as customised for theirparticular posture, deviation,
but some scapular retraction,some pelvic movement, I mean,
those movements really canbenefit anybody, anywhere,
anytime. And that links me tothe work that I also do with
ergonomics. If you if you lookat the research for ergonomics,
more and more research is comingout about this concept of taking

(07:04):
breaks. So why not when you takethat break throughout your
workday, physically and mentallywhy not do a posture exercise at
the same time, why not retractyour scapula? Why not activate
your hip flexors, why not, youknow, stretch your lower back, I
mean, do all the things, we takethe work from a egoscue method
and really bring it to theworkspace and the workstation as
well. So two different separatepractices, but all really aiming

(07:28):
for the same goal.
Yeah and that's becoming a lotmore popular now where people
are taking modalities likePilates or yoga and bringing
them to the workplace officeenvironment where staff can
apply those activities duringthe working day as opposed to
after the working day in orderto try and patch themselves
together again, and ergonomicsis becoming, it's really coming

(07:51):
in into its own at the moment attime of recording, it's sort of
mid 2022. If you're listening tothis in mid 2032, then I'm
probably going to be even greyerthan I am now. But at last
people, and Zeena too, at lastpeople were both sporting salt
and pepper haircuts. And yeah, Iwas watching on video. There's

(08:14):
quite a lot of similarity goingon. But yeah, more and more
companies are starting torealise that they need an
ergonomics programme for theirstaff. And that posture and
ergonomics go hand in hand. So,you know, it's always surprising
when when we find companies who,who haven't considered that or
who are who are new into thatarena and think, oh my gosh, we
can get more productivity fromour staff and our staff can be

(08:37):
happier. So we're more likely toretain them. And we can attract
better quality staff by justhaving them look after what they
do with themselves whilstthey're working. Which to me,
it's a no brainer. You know,it's a no brainer. So I can give
you some statistics. So the, thenumbers I mean, obviously
there's a bunch of extra studiesout there but some other
research studies that I haveutilised in my workshops and

(08:58):
things like that, if somebody'sin neck or back or hand or arm
pain, their productivity can godown by up to 36%. I mean that's
1/3 of their work day. And justby implementing some ergonomics
changes and shifts, you canreduce musculoskeletal disorders
by 64% Lost workdays by 88%. Andthen there was a new research

(09:20):
study that just came out lastyear in 2021 on posture break,
sorry, active breaks andpostural shift interventions.
And they're showing that thatconcept of every 30 to 60
minutes taking a quick break orchanging your posture or moving
your body can reduce the onsetof neck and low back pain
between 55 and 80%. Thereoccurrence between 65 and 78%.

(09:42):
And it can reduce the recoverytime by 100%. So I mean those
are staggering numbers. Really,if there's one thing you do in
your life, it's to learn how totake a positive break in the
middle of your day. Improveproductivity, you know, so I
mean, that's the overall goal.

(10:02):
And you're right. companiesreally need to embrace this and
the day of working in an officefive days a week, where you get
to walk to the water cooler, andyou stand by there and drink a
water with your friend, or pickup coffee or climb the stairs
for a meeting, those are gone.
Now, we're waking up in themorning, working from home a
couple days a week, we'resitting on our computer for a
couple hours, maybe we get up togo pick up the kids from school,
come back, go back to ourcomputer, you know, I mean, the

(10:24):
workforce is changing. And theworkforce wants this change. I
mean, I'm sure you've heard ofthe great resignation, right?
People are quitting at alarmingrates, what are they looking
for, they're not looking formore money, they're not looking
for a different title. They'relooking for work life balance.
So they're leaving these thesesorts of companies that are
still standing strong to thoseold fashioned ways of working to

(10:45):
come to companies, where theywhere they can get that work
life balance. And so what we tryto encourage them to do as a
company is if you can offer themergonomics from the moment they
start, your workers comp claimswill go down, their productivity
will go up, and they're gonnafeel appreciated. And you may be
able to steal that person fromfrom another company, not that I
endorsed this, but you may beable to encourage someone to

(11:07):
come to your team as a result ofoffering them these wellness
benefits that people desperatelydesperately need.
Yeah, totally. It's anonboarding process. Why? Why
would you want someone to workfor you for four years, five
years, until there's a problemand then try and fix it, you
need to be proactive aboutthese, I just want to say that
I'm not sure what's moreimpressive than the stats that

(11:28):
you've rolled off. Or the factthat you can remember all those
I teach a lot of corporateworkshops. Well, I put the
stats.
statistics in the workshop,because I feel like people learn
by doing. So by just saying thisto James, you're like, Whoa, I
had no idea. So when people hearthat, they go, Wow, I had no
idea the impact of this, Ialways start every workshop with

(11:50):
that really concrete researchinformation. So people don't
think it's just a fluff hour ofuseless time, we're going to
talk about elbow position, hipposition and exercises. No, it's
really so much more significantthan that. So I I do dig in
every month and do my researchand pull extract what I think
will be useful for people tohear.
So that's really great. In theUK, here, we have a thing called

(12:11):
DSC, which is kind ofobligatory. And most people a
lot of companies are doing 99pDSC is where you just tick a
couple of boxes and say, I knowmy screen wants to be at this
height and my elbow wants to bedoing this and and companies who
are still offering that I thinkare completely missing the boat
with regards to employeeretention and wellbeing
strategies and actually havinginteractive sessions with

(12:35):
someone like yourself or likemyself is the answer to that
problem.
It really is. And we I mean, webelieve people learn by doing.
So our workshops not onlyinclude the exercises that we
encourage people to do on camerawith us, we do a live posture
assessment. So for teaching aposture workshop on the
biomechanics of posture, andsome of the things that you and

(12:56):
I both know about differentposture deviations, we teach a
workshop on that. So forteaching that workshop, we'll
have somebody actually stand upon camera, after we've given
them the theory. So we gothrough all the theory of like,
this is what kyphosis is, thisis what lordosis is, this is
what swayback is. And then wehave people analyse their
appear. And it's actually so funwhen you have an engaged team.
And they're like, Oh, I see it,oh, look at their feet, look at

(13:17):
their knees, look at their head.
And if they can do it for theirpeers, and they could do it for
themselves, right. And that samething with the ergonomics
workshop, we'll do. We'll getpictures ahead of time for that
one. And we'll put them onscreen again, after we've given
the theory of how you should besitting and standing at your
desk. People will go Oh, yeah,that back of the chair needs to
come apart. Oh, look, the elbowposition is too small, you know,
so that, again, learn by doingmodality makes a huge

(13:38):
difference. I mean, listen, Iwork for Google, they're my
biggest customer. They have ahuge ergonomics team. But people
if they're not fully engaged init, unless it's in front of
their face, it's really hard toget them to watch a video or
take from a slide deck. What todo, they really need to be told
engaged with be part of theprocess. And so I feel like

(13:59):
that's what we excel at and whatmy company is doing well.
Yeah, that's perfect. I guessyou do. We don't tend to have it
in the UK Lunch and Learn isthat a US thing?. Yeah, yeah, we
shouldWe do lunch and learns for HR
teams. And then like I said,we'll do virtual events for
Google depending on like if theyhave a social hour, and they

(14:19):
want something fun to be done.
I'm doing one of those onThursday.
Fantastic! So that's my thirdquestion, which is, if you were
to offer some advice to ourlisteners, right now, if there's
one thing that they could do toimprove their posture, Zeena,
what would that be?
I would say do some reallysimple scapular retraction
throughout your day, just wakeup those muscles behind you. So
sit up tall, bring your handsdown by your sides. Just squeeze

(14:41):
your shoulder blades togetherbehind you and release and do
that 10 times and then go backto typing at your computer. I
mean, there's a gazillion otherexercises I could give you. But
this that simple act of wakingup those muscles, pulling the
shoulders back and remindingyourself where your shoulder
should be in space where yourhead should be in space that

(15:01):
little tiny acts, you do 10 ofthose three times a day four
times a day, that's a good startfor at least getting you out of
the slouchy forward headposition that a majority of us
are in throughout the day.
Yeah, and I love that becauseit's a really simple thing to
do. You know, it's not likehaving to hang yourself upside
down from a bar and touch yourleft toe with your right ear
hole. And you know,We could do that, if you want! I

(15:21):
also love doing cheststretching, just grabbing onto
the back of your chair, stickingyour chest out, squeezing your
shoulder blades together,keeping your elbows straight,
just a quick little simple chestrate, stress stretches, amazing
thing to do, just sitting uptall and maybe doing some pelvic
tilts where you're just tuckingand arching your pelvis while
you're even typing on thekeyboard. You don't even have to

(15:43):
I mean, I'm talking to you rightnow, James, as we're doing this
podcast, and you can see sort ofmy my shoulder movement here.
But I'm doing some pelvic curls.
I'm sitting in my kneelingchair, you know, so
I thought that was an earthquakegoing on in California.
But there's just some simplelittle things you know, we do
glute contractions in so Jamesis watching me now, you know, up

(16:03):
and down, popping up and down inthe video. And I'm just engaging
my glutes, releasing my glutes,engaging my glutes, releasing my
glutes. And again, I don't haveto take my hands off the
keyboard to do that. Right. Ican be on a video call, turn off
my video, do some glutecontractions, turn the video
back on again. Keep it onentertain people. So yeah,
simple little things that youcan deal with throughout your
day at your workstation thatwill give you that must have

(16:23):
blood flow to the muscles.
Really at the end of the day iswhat we're looking
Simple little things there.
There we have it. Great Zeena.
That's fantastic. It's beengreat speaking to you. How do
people get ahold of you? If theywant to find you.
Yes, they can go to my websiteverticalign.com. All of our
services are listed on there.
There's a contact us page,there's a link to be able to
book a discovery call. So allthe resources are there It's

(16:44):
verticalign So let's take verticand align put it together
verticalign.comFantastic! Zeena Thanks so much
for your time. It's been reallyinformative. It's been lovely to
speak to you and I hope that'sbeen useful to our listeners as
well. You've been listening tothe Posture Stars podcast. This
is James signing over and out.
Goodbye Zeena.

(17:06):
Thank you for having me.