April 27, 2022 • 19 mins
We talk to Niamh Pentony from Boyne Ergonomics about posture and ergonomics, hybrid working and working from home. Let's find out, how can ergonomics help posture?
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James Crow (00:01):
Hi everybody, it's James from Posture Stars. And
today I'm doing a lovely podcastwith Niamh Pentony Of Boyne
ergonomics. Hi, Niamh.
Niamh Pentony (00:10):
Hi, James, how are you?
James Crow (00:12):
Yeah, really good.
It's great to speak to you. I'vebeen watching your stuff on
LinkedIn quite a lot. And you'reputting up some really useful,
helpful and informative stuff.
So I wanted to have a chat withyou about exactly your take on
posture. And how you help yourclients with posture. You're
just south of Dublin a littlebit, is that right? North of
about an hour north of Dublin.
An hour north of Dublin, i'mmiles out then! It's a good job
(00:35):
I'm not visiting, I'd be abouttwo hours late. Okay, well,
you're, you're an ergononomist,and you work with individuals
and with companies helping themdeal with their pain issues,
particularly with a lot of thework from home stuff that's
going on. And posture hasfeatured quite heavily in a lot
(00:56):
of the problems that people arehaving recently. So I might as
well move in and ask my firstquestion, which is Niamh, what
is posture?
Niamh Pentony (01:05):
Me, posture is all about positioning. So
because I find, if we get intothe intricacies of it, people
get a little bit lost. So forme, your posture is your
positioning relative to yourspine. So where's the arms,
where's the legs, where's thehead, where's the shoulders,
(01:25):
where are the hips, you know,yourself, we're always trying to
keep everything as close and asnice and close to the body as we
can I can feel the spine andrelatively neutral postures when
we can when we can.
James Crow (01:39):
Yeah, and unfortunately, in, in the modern
working day, people are spendinga lot of time in situations
where they are either not doingthat, because of their ergonomic
problems, or they're not doingthat because they don't know any
better. Which do you think'sright on that front?
Niamh Pentony (01:57):
What I find is they can't do it, though, even
with the best will in the world,because of the equipment that
they're using, or the workspacethat they're using. They can't
adapt kind of neutral, relaxedposture, or what I call a safe
posture where you know, you havethe least amount of stress on
the body as you can have, it'sjust not always possible. And I
think a lot of it has to do withfatigue. So people are just
(02:18):
spending as I'm sure you'vefound way more time sitting than
they ever did before. And themuscles get tired, your back
gets tired from holding youupright in a chair. And you
might start off with a goodposture. But after 45, 50, 60
minutes, you just have to comedown on yourself because the
muscles are tired from holdingyou. Yeah, it's sort of the lack
(02:38):
of awareness as well, peoplejust don't know how everything
should be positioned to reducethe stress on your body.
James Crow (02:46):
So you put out some really interesting diagrams on
on the social media channelsabout how you should see it and
and how everything goestogether. And I think I don't
think people are naive in thatthey haven't got an awareness of
this, but they can't map it intotheir own bodies. And
particularly when they're atwork, they've just, they've lost
that awareness of how they'resat completely, I think a lot of
(03:08):
the time.
Niamh Pentony (03:09):
Yeah. And then that's where we come in, because
it's so much easier for us tocome in from the outside, and
just see how they're positionedand to give them advice on how
to fix it, it's very easy foranother person to see it. And
and you know, you're so I'm sureyou've noticed yourself when
you're working, we will slipinto poor postures ourselves,
sometimes because you're sofocused on the work that you're
(03:31):
doing, you lose that awarenessof where everything is
positioned,
James Crow (03:35):
Particularly with the screens that tend to because
it's such a big visual stimulusto drag us in. And then also
you've got that that work ethicthat everybody's really keen to
work hard. And even peopleworking remotely now people are
still afraid to step away fromthe desk in case they're seen as
not being present. Which iswhich is bonkers.
Niamh Pentony (03:53):
Yeah, and I talked about this with people
all the time. And that's what Isay to people. If you're in your
original office building, youwould think nothing of getting
up every 30, 40 minutes to goand ask somebody a question or
to go make a cup of coffee, oreven just to go and have a chat
with colleagues like it willtake because you're in the
office building. So you're stillin work in your mind, you're
still working, because you're inoffice. Whereas when you're
(04:16):
working from home when you'rejust at the computer, that is
your office. So I think a lot ofpeople feel that when they step
away from the computer, they'restepping away from work, which
is totally fine, butpsychologically it doesn't feel
like it is
James Crow (04:30):
Yeh it's strange.
Also, just standing up and doinga bit of work. Some people feel
as if that's a weird thing aswell. So so I'm stood up now
I've got a standing desk, I'veraised it I'm standing to do our
podcast, our interview, and Ifeel quite comfortable doing it.
But when I've worked withergonomic assessments when
people say hey, you know, youcan stand up during your team's
(04:51):
meeting. It's, it's almost as ifI've said something that
nobody's ever considered.
Niamh Pentony (04:58):
Yeah, and I because I find it I have a
standing desk as well back inthe home office. But I just
find, I can't type and stand.
For me, that's not comfortable.
But I like yourself, I willstand for interviews, I will
stand for my virtual assessmentsbecause I'm happy and
comfortable standing and talkingon the camera. But if I want to
do some work, that involvesquite a lot of concentration, I
(05:20):
will bring it back down to thesitting position. And like that,
I recommend this to people allthe time. And again, they've
just never thought of it. Thatit's so much it is easier to
stand for calls because you'renot a static. If you're standing
typing, yet you're standing, putyour shoulders, your arms,
they're all still in the staticposition. Whereas I'm sure you
find the same when you'restanding for calls. You shuffle
(05:40):
around to talk with your hands,you know, you're not static. And
I think that's a great benefit.
James Crow (05:46):
Yeah, I'm swaying now as we talk, just moving from
foot to foot. And well, maybethat was last night's cider. I'm
not sure one or the other. So mysecond question I have, and
we're starting to answer thisalready is, in terms of your
remote ergonomic assessments iswhat do you do to help people's
posture?
Niamh Pentony (06:04):
The first thing I do I always take two approaches,
the first thing I do is I lookat the equipment they have, is
it fit for purpose, and are theypositioned correctly relative to
that equipment. So are theypositioned correctly relative to
the height of their desk istheir monitor positioned
correctly, then. So I alwaysstart with a desk height. So are
their elbows essentially, in theright position, when they let
(06:28):
the shoulders fall is the elbowlevel with the table? Do they
have support under their feet,under the floor or for us,
whatever it may be. That's yourstarting point. That's the
skeleton and then we kind offill out the workstation from
there is the keyboard, themouse, the monitor all
positioned correctly around thisskeleton. And that's kind of
part one. And then part two forme is always trying to find ways
(06:51):
to build in the mobility duringthe day, because it's all well
and good having the rightequipment, and having yourself
positioned correctly with it.
But for me, I think that's onlyhalf the battle. The other half
is your mobility, you have tokeep moving during the day, or
you will develop problems withyour back, your neck, your
shoulders and your eyes. So it'sthe mobility is incredibly
(07:12):
important. So I always take akind of a two pronged approach
at it. So deal with the physicaldeal with the workstation, but
then try and teach them how tobuild in mobility. Especially
working from home. I thinkthat's the area that suffers the
most lack of mobility.
James Crow (07:29):
Yeah, yeah. And then when people are working from
home, it's a great opportunityto get out and go for a
lunchtime walk or do you knowactually I find working from
home there's there's alwaysstuff to do to keep me mobile,
there's always washing to put onand dishes to clean. And you
know, there's always somethingthat I can do five or 10 minutes
Niamh Pentony (07:45):
I agree, absolutely it's funny because I
an hour.
will do that. And actually,that's why I'm in a co working
space today because I findthere's too much distraction at
home. Because I need to getsomething done so you know, I
want to step away, It's funny Ifind people working from home,
they're not like at least 90% ofpeople are not getting up and
sticking a wash on or getting upand doing a little you know,
(08:06):
some kind of task or chore notrelated to work. I find most
people are actually just stayingat the desk and trying to get
get through the work rather thanactually breaking it up with
other little tasks during theday. And I think they're coming
into March now. The weather,fingers crossed should start
improving a little bit. And Ithink it's a great opportunity.
(08:27):
I always say to people, once theweather improves. Have a look at
what video calls have a look atwhat virtual meetings you have
booked in for the day. What onescan you take on your phone, like
do you need to be in front of ascreen, take it on your phone,
put the earphones in, take it inthe garden, take it out for a
walk, you know, leave the deskfor any call that you can and
(08:47):
just take it on the walk becauseI find it's great. It's great
for productivity, any of thesebrainstorming sessions that
people do with their teams, it'sactually great to do them on the
move because it helps itstimulates the mind and relaxes
your back your neck, yourshoulders and gives you a break
from the desk.
James Crow (09:02):
Yeah, so it's a great idea. A lot of counsellors
and psychotherapists. Now we'restarting to take outdoor
sessions as well just becausegetting people moving is really
good for for their well being.
And that's the kind of task taskrotation kind of thing you know,
if you've got several things onin the days, spread them out so
that you can you can go for yourlittle walks while you're doing
them. There's there's no pointsitting there for six hours and
(09:22):
then having two hours on yourmobile walking around the park.
Yeh, spread it all through.
Niamh Pentony (09:28):
It has to be broken up. Like if you sit there
for 6 hours, you've done thedamage already. The walks not
going to do anything you know,
James Crow (09:36):
Yeah, well, you're not going to be able to walk
because you'll just collapseonto your knees when you leave
the desk. So yeah, I mean, whenyou're working from home, you've
got a great excuse to movebecause you look after adoptive
kittens. Is that right?
Niamh Pentony (09:51):
Yes. Yeah. So we have our own cat and then we
foster kittens, and untilthey're kind of ready to go to
be adopted. So there's always acreature lurking around to keep
me on my toes and keep me busy.
James Crow (10:03):
Do they jump into the screen when you're doing
remote virtual assessments?
Niamh Pentony (10:08):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And even even my
older cat does it sometimesnormally worn like, I know,
because I work from a bedroomand I'm doing the virtual
assessment, there's always a caton the bed, it always was gonna
be, but there will always be acat on the bed during the day,
James Crow (10:23):
they just can't keep away, can they? They can't keep
away. So. So you're helpingpeople with remote virtual
assessments, and presumablyvisiting offices as well and
helping people in thoseenvironments,
Niamh Pentony (10:35):
back on site, offices, factories, wherever,
wherever there's an issue
James Crow (10:40):
is that it's early 2022. Now, do you think there's
going to be a move back toworkplace predominantly? Or do
you think it's going to stay asa hybrid thing wherever
possible?
Niamh Pentony (10:51):
Majority of people I'm talking to are
staying hybrid, because a lot ofcompanies I'm dealing with now
have gotten rid of a lot oftheir office space. So there's
now where there might have been200 desks, there's now 100 or 75
desks. And they're just rotatingthrough I think hybrid will stay
for the majority people.
James Crow (11:09):
I think so and a sort of hybrid hybrid, because
companies that I talked tolooking for workshops, kind of
want the workshop in the office,and then the remote assessments,
obviously remotely, so they kindof doing teams stuff together
and then sending people off to,to go off and do their own thing
again. And I mean, the pros, thecons of all of it, but it's for
those people who get to workhard, but it's, it's good for
(11:32):
most of them. But I have some ofmy assessments, I see people who
their space at home is just socompromised, that it is
impossible for them to workproperly without the addition of
extra furniture or extraequipment at the very least.
Are you seeing a lot of that?
Niamh Pentony (11:48):
Oh, absolutely. I find especially a lot of younger
workers who are house sharing,like the only private space they
have is their bedroom. And I'vebeen I know I've met on virtual
assessments, young people whoare quite new to the workforce,
they will be sharing a housewith four other people. And the
only space they have is thebedroom. The common areas are
the kitchen and the sittingroom. And there might be
(12:10):
somebody working from there. Soyeah, I've definitely met people
who are really limited forspace. The one thing I'll say
is, there is usually somethingthat can, I've never had an
assessment yet, where we haven'tbeen able to do something. Even
if you've had to think outsideof the box office a little bit,
there's always a way to improveposture, like my own workspace
at home is very small. But youcan make it work. And the thing
(12:33):
is to have been I've foundanywhere cool. But there's been
big advancements on theequipment that you can get for
small spaces. Whereas at thestart of COVID, you were really
very limited on what you couldget. Yeah, that's right. That's
always something you can do.
Even if you have to, you know,jig something together on the
fly, there is always somethingyou can do.
James Crow (12:53):
You can have your own, have your own area with
something as simple as somefloorboard planks, or, you know,
some books under your feet, acouple of pillows and strap them
to your chair, there's alwayssomething you can do. So those
of you who are working at homeand having a rough time of it,
try and take five or 10 minutesto improvise. And you could step
(13:13):
back from where you're workingand look at it as an outsider.
As niamh says, sometimes it'sreally hard to see the wood for
the trees. So pretend you'vewalked into someone else's house
and look at it and think, Well,how can I fix that for them?
Niamh Pentony (13:25):
Yeah, get a third person get I'm sorry, second
person, get someone else to takea side view of you at your desk.
Just sit as you normally would,do what you normally do and
either get someone to record iton your phone in a short video.
Or take a side view that sideview angle, that side of your
picture can tell you so much.
And you'll see straight awaywhat you need to fix. You know
what I mean? Yes, absolutely.
(13:48):
Look at where the hips are, lookwhere the knees are, where's
your head? Where's your elbows?
And then just have a look aroundyour space? What do you have
that could help? You know whatcould help my feet? What can
make me sit a bit higher, youknow, the side view tells you
loads and if you have somebodythat can help and do that for
you, you will be able to seewhere you're going wrong.
James Crow (14:07):
So well my third question is, if you were to
offer one piece of advice to ourlisteners right now, what would
it be? Do you think that wouldbe your advice to use a second
Niamh Pentony (14:15):
That'd be one.
But I have to think my mainperson?
piece of advice is I've actuallygot one myself recently. So I am
very big as you know on mobilitybecause as I said, I think
equipment and positioning is 50%of the problem I think lack of
mobility has a lot to answer forat the moment to what I have
actually recently got like a lotof people have smartwatches that
(14:36):
will buzz every 50 minutes tellthem to move. Very easy to
ignore. A lot of people havelittle apps on their phone that
will be very easy to ignore, hitsnooze. I'm not moving. I'm in
the middle of something. What Ihave actually found and I got
one myself to give it a go and Ifind it really useful. So I got
myself a little productivityclock now it looks like a little
(14:57):
I don't have it here but lookslike a little small alarm clock.
Okay, yeah, you just twist, Itwist it to 45 minutes and my 45
minute segment is green, becauseI'm going very visual, my little
product is green. And I can seeit getting smaller and smaller
and smaller, and then a littlealarm goes off, when it gets to
45 minutes, that has, for mechanged, definitely how I work,
(15:22):
I am a lot more. And I'verecommended to a lot of people
recently, and I'm getting reallygood feedback, I'm a lot more
focused in the time that I'm atthe desk. So when I'm doing my
reports and that kind of thing,I get very easily distracted, I
will type two sentences of areport and I'm gone, I'm away
with the fairies. What I findwith this clock, I see the
green, know I'm gonna get thisdone. So I'm focused when I'm
(15:42):
there, then I move when the timecomes, I get x amount done in
this 45 minutes or 30 minutes,whatever it needs to be, I get x
amount done and I step away andI go do something else. I just
find we have become so reliant,like the likes of the watches,
like they're so easy to ignorethose little movement reminders
that we blocked them outaltogether. So I'm always trying
(16:05):
to find tools and tips that willhelp get people out of the
chair. So it could be themovement, I find other
productivity stuff that worksfor me. Another thing I find is,
yes, use a productivity app orbreak reminder app on your
mobile phone. But don't have thephone on your desk, put the
phone across the room. So everytime you get a notification
(16:27):
every time the alarm goes off,you have to get up and go and
get it yeh it's annoying, andit's irritating. But it does
your body so much good that youhave left that chair, even for a
minute. That's all you do,to dothat frequently during the day
does your body so much good.
James Crow (16:45):
Brilliant. So it's the act of moving isn't it and
having so you're talking abouthaving an external indicator or
an external stimulus, which isoutside of the screen outside of
you your current workingpractice.
Niamh Pentony (16:59):
Yeah, because everything that's inside, it's
so easy to ignore. Whereas Ifind if you have something
external, like the productivityclocks, or the reminders on your
phone, as long as the phone isnot on your desk, it needs to be
outside of your workspace. Sowhen the alarm goes off, you
have to get up to turn it off.
James Crow (17:16):
It's like me in the morning Niamh, if i've got my
alarm clock next to me, then I'mnot getting up for another three
hours. But if it's on the otherside of the room, then I stand a
Okay, so I think I've coveredwhat I want to chat with you
chance.
about we've got what is posture?
How do you help posture and whatwould you recommend people to
(17:39):
do? So how do people get aholdof you? If they want some more
advice from you?
Niamh Pentony (17:44):
Yes, me, my website is
www.boyneergonomics.ie I can becontacted there, there is a link
there to contact me but you canalso email me at
info@boyneergonomics.ie Or youcan find me on Instagram is
probably the best place to findme. And it's going under
boyne_ergonomics I'm always onInstagram, I'm always posting
(18:05):
little tips and just likeyourself, James trying to help
the masses reduce discomfort.
James Crow (18:10):
You are prodigious on Instagram definitely worth
following Niamh on Instagram,everybody, and some really
useful stuff on there. So I'llput some links on my website as
well that those of you who arelistening to this on the website
can click and get out too. Andfor those of you who are sat and
listening to this podcast orwatching this podcast, I urge
(18:32):
you now to turn us off and goand do some movement and do
something else apart fromsitting there and sat staring at
a screen or listening to usbecause as interesting as we are
there's a whole world out thereso go and have a bit of a break.
Niamh Pentony (18:45):
Exactly go put the kettle on, get out of that
chair!
James Crow (18:48):
Go and have a nice cup of tea. Well, Niamh, it's
been great talking to you.
Thanks so much for your time andI hope our listeners have
learned some little tips andtricks there that they'll be
able to apply and we lookforward to seeing you another
time. Thanks for listeningeverybody. This has been the
Posture Stars podcast with NiamhPentony from Boyne Ergonomics.
Niamh Pentony (19:08):
Thanks James
Hi everybody, it's James from Posture Stars. And
today I'm doing a lovely podcastwith Niamh Pentony Of Boyne
ergonomics. Hi, Niamh.
Niamh Pentony (00:10):
Hi, James, how are you?
James Crow (00:12):
Yeah, really good.
It's great to speak to you. I'vebeen watching your stuff on
LinkedIn quite a lot. And you'reputting up some really useful,
helpful and informative stuff.
So I wanted to have a chat withyou about exactly your take on
posture. And how you help yourclients with posture. You're
just south of Dublin a littlebit, is that right? North of
about an hour north of Dublin.
An hour north of Dublin, i'mmiles out then! It's a good job
(00:35):
I'm not visiting, I'd be abouttwo hours late. Okay, well,
you're, you're an ergononomist,and you work with individuals
and with companies helping themdeal with their pain issues,
particularly with a lot of thework from home stuff that's
going on. And posture hasfeatured quite heavily in a lot
(00:56):
of the problems that people arehaving recently. So I might as
well move in and ask my firstquestion, which is Niamh, what
is posture?
Niamh Pentony (01:05):
Me, posture is all about positioning. So
because I find, if we get intothe intricacies of it, people
get a little bit lost. So forme, your posture is your
positioning relative to yourspine. So where's the arms,
where's the legs, where's thehead, where's the shoulders,
(01:25):
where are the hips, you know,yourself, we're always trying to
keep everything as close and asnice and close to the body as we
can I can feel the spine andrelatively neutral postures when
we can when we can.
James Crow (01:39):
Yeah, and unfortunately, in, in the modern
working day, people are spendinga lot of time in situations
where they are either not doingthat, because of their ergonomic
problems, or they're not doingthat because they don't know any
better. Which do you think'sright on that front?
Niamh Pentony (01:57):
What I find is they can't do it, though, even
with the best will in the world,because of the equipment that
they're using, or the workspacethat they're using. They can't
adapt kind of neutral, relaxedposture, or what I call a safe
posture where you know, you havethe least amount of stress on
the body as you can have, it'sjust not always possible. And I
think a lot of it has to do withfatigue. So people are just
(02:18):
spending as I'm sure you'vefound way more time sitting than
they ever did before. And themuscles get tired, your back
gets tired from holding youupright in a chair. And you
might start off with a goodposture. But after 45, 50, 60
minutes, you just have to comedown on yourself because the
muscles are tired from holdingyou. Yeah, it's sort of the lack
(02:38):
of awareness as well, peoplejust don't know how everything
should be positioned to reducethe stress on your body.
James Crow (02:46):
So you put out some really interesting diagrams on
on the social media channelsabout how you should see it and
and how everything goestogether. And I think I don't
think people are naive in thatthey haven't got an awareness of
this, but they can't map it intotheir own bodies. And
particularly when they're atwork, they've just, they've lost
that awareness of how they'resat completely, I think a lot of
(03:08):
the time.
Niamh Pentony (03:09):
Yeah. And then that's where we come in, because
it's so much easier for us tocome in from the outside, and
just see how they're positionedand to give them advice on how
to fix it, it's very easy foranother person to see it. And
and you know, you're so I'm sureyou've noticed yourself when
you're working, we will slipinto poor postures ourselves,
sometimes because you're sofocused on the work that you're
(03:31):
doing, you lose that awarenessof where everything is
positioned,
James Crow (03:35):
Particularly with the screens that tend to because
it's such a big visual stimulusto drag us in. And then also
you've got that that work ethicthat everybody's really keen to
work hard. And even peopleworking remotely now people are
still afraid to step away fromthe desk in case they're seen as
not being present. Which iswhich is bonkers.
Niamh Pentony (03:53):
Yeah, and I talked about this with people
all the time. And that's what Isay to people. If you're in your
original office building, youwould think nothing of getting
up every 30, 40 minutes to goand ask somebody a question or
to go make a cup of coffee, oreven just to go and have a chat
with colleagues like it willtake because you're in the
office building. So you're stillin work in your mind, you're
still working, because you're inoffice. Whereas when you're
(04:16):
working from home when you'rejust at the computer, that is
your office. So I think a lot ofpeople feel that when they step
away from the computer, they'restepping away from work, which
is totally fine, butpsychologically it doesn't feel
like it is
James Crow (04:30):
Yeh it's strange.
Also, just standing up and doinga bit of work. Some people feel
as if that's a weird thing aswell. So so I'm stood up now
I've got a standing desk, I'veraised it I'm standing to do our
podcast, our interview, and Ifeel quite comfortable doing it.
But when I've worked withergonomic assessments when
people say hey, you know, youcan stand up during your team's
(04:51):
meeting. It's, it's almost as ifI've said something that
nobody's ever considered.
Niamh Pentony (04:58):
Yeah, and I because I find it I have a
standing desk as well back inthe home office. But I just
find, I can't type and stand.
For me, that's not comfortable.
But I like yourself, I willstand for interviews, I will
stand for my virtual assessmentsbecause I'm happy and
comfortable standing and talkingon the camera. But if I want to
do some work, that involvesquite a lot of concentration, I
(05:20):
will bring it back down to thesitting position. And like that,
I recommend this to people allthe time. And again, they've
just never thought of it. Thatit's so much it is easier to
stand for calls because you'renot a static. If you're standing
typing, yet you're standing, putyour shoulders, your arms,
they're all still in the staticposition. Whereas I'm sure you
find the same when you'restanding for calls. You shuffle
(05:40):
around to talk with your hands,you know, you're not static. And
I think that's a great benefit.
James Crow (05:46):
Yeah, I'm swaying now as we talk, just moving from
foot to foot. And well, maybethat was last night's cider. I'm
not sure one or the other. So mysecond question I have, and
we're starting to answer thisalready is, in terms of your
remote ergonomic assessments iswhat do you do to help people's
posture?
Niamh Pentony (06:04):
The first thing I do I always take two approaches,
the first thing I do is I lookat the equipment they have, is
it fit for purpose, and are theypositioned correctly relative to
that equipment. So are theypositioned correctly relative to
the height of their desk istheir monitor positioned
correctly, then. So I alwaysstart with a desk height. So are
their elbows essentially, in theright position, when they let
(06:28):
the shoulders fall is the elbowlevel with the table? Do they
have support under their feet,under the floor or for us,
whatever it may be. That's yourstarting point. That's the
skeleton and then we kind offill out the workstation from
there is the keyboard, themouse, the monitor all
positioned correctly around thisskeleton. And that's kind of
part one. And then part two forme is always trying to find ways
(06:51):
to build in the mobility duringthe day, because it's all well
and good having the rightequipment, and having yourself
positioned correctly with it.
But for me, I think that's onlyhalf the battle. The other half
is your mobility, you have tokeep moving during the day, or
you will develop problems withyour back, your neck, your
shoulders and your eyes. So it'sthe mobility is incredibly
(07:12):
important. So I always take akind of a two pronged approach
at it. So deal with the physicaldeal with the workstation, but
then try and teach them how tobuild in mobility. Especially
working from home. I thinkthat's the area that suffers the
most lack of mobility.
James Crow (07:29):
Yeah, yeah. And then when people are working from
home, it's a great opportunityto get out and go for a
lunchtime walk or do you knowactually I find working from
home there's there's alwaysstuff to do to keep me mobile,
there's always washing to put onand dishes to clean. And you
know, there's always somethingthat I can do five or 10 minutes
Niamh Pentony (07:45):
I agree, absolutely it's funny because I
an hour.
will do that. And actually,that's why I'm in a co working
space today because I findthere's too much distraction at
home. Because I need to getsomething done so you know, I
want to step away, It's funny Ifind people working from home,
they're not like at least 90% ofpeople are not getting up and
sticking a wash on or getting upand doing a little you know,
(08:06):
some kind of task or chore notrelated to work. I find most
people are actually just stayingat the desk and trying to get
get through the work rather thanactually breaking it up with
other little tasks during theday. And I think they're coming
into March now. The weather,fingers crossed should start
improving a little bit. And Ithink it's a great opportunity.
(08:27):
I always say to people, once theweather improves. Have a look at
what video calls have a look atwhat virtual meetings you have
booked in for the day. What onescan you take on your phone, like
do you need to be in front of ascreen, take it on your phone,
put the earphones in, take it inthe garden, take it out for a
walk, you know, leave the deskfor any call that you can and
(08:47):
just take it on the walk becauseI find it's great. It's great
for productivity, any of thesebrainstorming sessions that
people do with their teams, it'sactually great to do them on the
move because it helps itstimulates the mind and relaxes
your back your neck, yourshoulders and gives you a break
from the desk.
James Crow (09:02):
Yeah, so it's a great idea. A lot of counsellors
and psychotherapists. Now we'restarting to take outdoor
sessions as well just becausegetting people moving is really
good for for their well being.
And that's the kind of task taskrotation kind of thing you know,
if you've got several things onin the days, spread them out so
that you can you can go for yourlittle walks while you're doing
them. There's there's no pointsitting there for six hours and
(09:22):
then having two hours on yourmobile walking around the park.
Yeh, spread it all through.
Niamh Pentony (09:28):
It has to be broken up. Like if you sit there
for 6 hours, you've done thedamage already. The walks not
going to do anything you know,
James Crow (09:36):
Yeah, well, you're not going to be able to walk
because you'll just collapseonto your knees when you leave
the desk. So yeah, I mean, whenyou're working from home, you've
got a great excuse to movebecause you look after adoptive
kittens. Is that right?
Niamh Pentony (09:51):
Yes. Yeah. So we have our own cat and then we
foster kittens, and untilthey're kind of ready to go to
be adopted. So there's always acreature lurking around to keep
me on my toes and keep me busy.
James Crow (10:03):
Do they jump into the screen when you're doing
remote virtual assessments?
Niamh Pentony (10:08):
Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And even even my
older cat does it sometimesnormally worn like, I know,
because I work from a bedroomand I'm doing the virtual
assessment, there's always a caton the bed, it always was gonna
be, but there will always be acat on the bed during the day,
James Crow (10:23):
they just can't keep away, can they? They can't keep
away. So. So you're helpingpeople with remote virtual
assessments, and presumablyvisiting offices as well and
helping people in thoseenvironments,
Niamh Pentony (10:35):
back on site, offices, factories, wherever,
wherever there's an issue
James Crow (10:40):
is that it's early 2022. Now, do you think there's
going to be a move back toworkplace predominantly? Or do
you think it's going to stay asa hybrid thing wherever
possible?
Niamh Pentony (10:51):
Majority of people I'm talking to are
staying hybrid, because a lot ofcompanies I'm dealing with now
have gotten rid of a lot oftheir office space. So there's
now where there might have been200 desks, there's now 100 or 75
desks. And they're just rotatingthrough I think hybrid will stay
for the majority people.
James Crow (11:09):
I think so and a sort of hybrid hybrid, because
companies that I talked tolooking for workshops, kind of
want the workshop in the office,and then the remote assessments,
obviously remotely, so they kindof doing teams stuff together
and then sending people off to,to go off and do their own thing
again. And I mean, the pros, thecons of all of it, but it's for
those people who get to workhard, but it's, it's good for
(11:32):
most of them. But I have some ofmy assessments, I see people who
their space at home is just socompromised, that it is
impossible for them to workproperly without the addition of
extra furniture or extraequipment at the very least.
Are you seeing a lot of that?
Niamh Pentony (11:48):
Oh, absolutely. I find especially a lot of younger
workers who are house sharing,like the only private space they
have is their bedroom. And I'vebeen I know I've met on virtual
assessments, young people whoare quite new to the workforce,
they will be sharing a housewith four other people. And the
only space they have is thebedroom. The common areas are
the kitchen and the sittingroom. And there might be
(12:10):
somebody working from there. Soyeah, I've definitely met people
who are really limited forspace. The one thing I'll say
is, there is usually somethingthat can, I've never had an
assessment yet, where we haven'tbeen able to do something. Even
if you've had to think outsideof the box office a little bit,
there's always a way to improveposture, like my own workspace
at home is very small. But youcan make it work. And the thing
(12:33):
is to have been I've foundanywhere cool. But there's been
big advancements on theequipment that you can get for
small spaces. Whereas at thestart of COVID, you were really
very limited on what you couldget. Yeah, that's right. That's
always something you can do.
Even if you have to, you know,jig something together on the
fly, there is always somethingyou can do.
James Crow (12:53):
You can have your own, have your own area with
something as simple as somefloorboard planks, or, you know,
some books under your feet, acouple of pillows and strap them
to your chair, there's alwayssomething you can do. So those
of you who are working at homeand having a rough time of it,
try and take five or 10 minutesto improvise. And you could step
(13:13):
back from where you're workingand look at it as an outsider.
As niamh says, sometimes it'sreally hard to see the wood for
the trees. So pretend you'vewalked into someone else's house
and look at it and think, Well,how can I fix that for them?
Niamh Pentony (13:25):
Yeah, get a third person get I'm sorry, second
person, get someone else to takea side view of you at your desk.
Just sit as you normally would,do what you normally do and
either get someone to record iton your phone in a short video.
Or take a side view that sideview angle, that side of your
picture can tell you so much.
And you'll see straight awaywhat you need to fix. You know
what I mean? Yes, absolutely.
(13:48):
Look at where the hips are, lookwhere the knees are, where's
your head? Where's your elbows?
And then just have a look aroundyour space? What do you have
that could help? You know whatcould help my feet? What can
make me sit a bit higher, youknow, the side view tells you
loads and if you have somebodythat can help and do that for
you, you will be able to seewhere you're going wrong.
James Crow (14:07):
So well my third question is, if you were to
offer one piece of advice to ourlisteners right now, what would
it be? Do you think that wouldbe your advice to use a second
Niamh Pentony (14:15):
That'd be one.
But I have to think my mainperson?
piece of advice is I've actuallygot one myself recently. So I am
very big as you know on mobilitybecause as I said, I think
equipment and positioning is 50%of the problem I think lack of
mobility has a lot to answer forat the moment to what I have
actually recently got like a lotof people have smartwatches that
(14:36):
will buzz every 50 minutes tellthem to move. Very easy to
ignore. A lot of people havelittle apps on their phone that
will be very easy to ignore, hitsnooze. I'm not moving. I'm in
the middle of something. What Ihave actually found and I got
one myself to give it a go and Ifind it really useful. So I got
myself a little productivityclock now it looks like a little
(14:57):
I don't have it here but lookslike a little small alarm clock.
Okay, yeah, you just twist, Itwist it to 45 minutes and my 45
minute segment is green, becauseI'm going very visual, my little
product is green. And I can seeit getting smaller and smaller
and smaller, and then a littlealarm goes off, when it gets to
45 minutes, that has, for mechanged, definitely how I work,
(15:22):
I am a lot more. And I'verecommended to a lot of people
recently, and I'm getting reallygood feedback, I'm a lot more
focused in the time that I'm atthe desk. So when I'm doing my
reports and that kind of thing,I get very easily distracted, I
will type two sentences of areport and I'm gone, I'm away
with the fairies. What I findwith this clock, I see the
green, know I'm gonna get thisdone. So I'm focused when I'm
(15:42):
there, then I move when the timecomes, I get x amount done in
this 45 minutes or 30 minutes,whatever it needs to be, I get x
amount done and I step away andI go do something else. I just
find we have become so reliant,like the likes of the watches,
like they're so easy to ignorethose little movement reminders
that we blocked them outaltogether. So I'm always trying
(16:05):
to find tools and tips that willhelp get people out of the
chair. So it could be themovement, I find other
productivity stuff that worksfor me. Another thing I find is,
yes, use a productivity app orbreak reminder app on your
mobile phone. But don't have thephone on your desk, put the
phone across the room. So everytime you get a notification
(16:27):
every time the alarm goes off,you have to get up and go and
get it yeh it's annoying, andit's irritating. But it does
your body so much good that youhave left that chair, even for a
minute. That's all you do,to dothat frequently during the day
does your body so much good.
James Crow (16:45):
Brilliant. So it's the act of moving isn't it and
having so you're talking abouthaving an external indicator or
an external stimulus, which isoutside of the screen outside of
you your current workingpractice.
Niamh Pentony (16:59):
Yeah, because everything that's inside, it's
so easy to ignore. Whereas Ifind if you have something
external, like the productivityclocks, or the reminders on your
phone, as long as the phone isnot on your desk, it needs to be
outside of your workspace. Sowhen the alarm goes off, you
have to get up to turn it off.
James Crow (17:16):
It's like me in the morning Niamh, if i've got my
alarm clock next to me, then I'mnot getting up for another three
hours. But if it's on the otherside of the room, then I stand a
Okay, so I think I've coveredwhat I want to chat with you
chance.
about we've got what is posture?
How do you help posture and whatwould you recommend people to
(17:39):
do? So how do people get aholdof you? If they want some more
advice from you?
Niamh Pentony (17:44):
Yes, me, my website is
www.boyneergonomics.ie I can becontacted there, there is a link
there to contact me but you canalso email me at
info@boyneergonomics.ie Or youcan find me on Instagram is
probably the best place to findme. And it's going under
boyne_ergonomics I'm always onInstagram, I'm always posting
(18:05):
little tips and just likeyourself, James trying to help
the masses reduce discomfort.
James Crow (18:10):
You are prodigious on Instagram definitely worth
following Niamh on Instagram,everybody, and some really
useful stuff on there. So I'llput some links on my website as
well that those of you who arelistening to this on the website
can click and get out too. Andfor those of you who are sat and
listening to this podcast orwatching this podcast, I urge
(18:32):
you now to turn us off and goand do some movement and do
something else apart fromsitting there and sat staring at
a screen or listening to usbecause as interesting as we are
there's a whole world out thereso go and have a bit of a break.
Niamh Pentony (18:45):
Exactly go put the kettle on, get out of that
chair!
James Crow (18:48):
Go and have a nice cup of tea. Well, Niamh, it's
been great talking to you.
Thanks so much for your time andI hope our listeners have
learned some little tips andtricks there that they'll be
able to apply and we lookforward to seeing you another
time. Thanks for listeningeverybody. This has been the
Posture Stars podcast with NiamhPentony from Boyne Ergonomics.
Niamh Pentony (19:08):
Thanks James
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