Welcome back to the Poultry Nerds Podcast! In this episode, we're joined again by Gina from Wrather Farms as we dive deep into the genetics, color varieties, and mislabeling surrounding the Splash Ameraucana. What's the difference between a true Ameraucana vs. Easter Egger? We break it all down – from melanin expression, APA standards, and blue egg genetics to leg color, pea combs, and the reality of chick color at hatch.
You'll also learn the truth about breeding Splash to Splash, the genetic pyramid behind feather coloring, and whether or not those "chipmunk stripe" chicks are really what the hatchery says they are.
Plus — we nerd out on wing banding techniques, color dilution, and using spreadsheets to track flock data like pros. If you're working with Ameraucana chickens, curious about color genetics, or just trying to avoid getting sold an “Americana” imposter, this one’s for you.
#Ameraucana #EasterEgger #PoultryPodcast #SplashAmeraucana #ChickenGenetics #BackyardChickens #BlueEggs #HatchingTime #ColorGenetics #WingBanding #APAStandards #ChickenBreeds #PoultryNerdsPodcast
Feel Free to email us at - poultrynerds@gmail.com
Join us on Facebook at - https://www.facebook.com/PoultryNerds
Sign up for News at PoultryNerds.com
EggFoam.com get your egg shippers and live shipping boxes and always get free shipping!
ShowPro feed supplement for all your feathered friends! Grow them bigger and healthier with the best ingredients.
Coturnix Quail hatching eggs from Bryant's Roost, including jumbo celadons!
Quail cartons and Supplies from Double R Farms
Please subscribe to our podcast and leave a review, we appreciate you. And if you have a subject request, email us. PoultryNerds@Gmail.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:01):
Welcome poultry nerds.
We are back again with Gina fromWrather Farms I'm gonna butcher
your name.
Carey (00:11):
That's what I thought.
While we're name dropping, let'smake sure it's right.
Jennifer (00:17):
Look, I, so I had the
Carey (00:19):
privilege to go by there the other day and see some of
the stuff that I've heard hertalk about.
And I'm just gonna say for thoselisteners that can't see me
holding two thumbs up, twothumbs up.
Jennifer (00:32):
Aw, thank you.
So I've seen pictures of herstore on our Facebook page.
It's cute.
Carey (00:37):
Look, it is really neat.
Like when you pull up and it's,boom, here it is.
And you walk in and you feellike you're in a monstrous
store, and it's got everythingthere.
And then all the.
She looks like a hatching timecommercial behind her.
Which, we can, we on here, weunderstand and support each
other's addictions.
Yeah.
(00:58):
So we get it.
But it was really nice
Gina (01:01):
works, man.
Hatching time has done us good.
Really good.
Yep.
Yep.
Jennifer (01:08):
They do.
So today we've gone through allof your breeds and we're hitting
the last one, I think.
Gina (01:14):
Oh, we haven't talked about the black copper maran.
Jennifer (01:18):
Oh no.
We're gonna put them on hold.
So today we're talking aboutsplashing the maran.
We actually got some requests totalk about this, and that's when
I messaged you and I said, Hey,we've got requests to talk about
these genetics.
So first of all, I wanna startwith the most basic of basic.
(01:40):
What's the difference between anAmericana.
An Americana.
Gina (01:45):
Oh yeah.
Okay.
So if you see birds advertisedas, Hey, Americana, chicks for
sale, they're probably not trueAmericana.
So anyone that breeds trueAmericana is always going to
proceed The Americana name withthe Keller variety, there are
(02:09):
10.
A PA recognized color varietiesfor Americana and a number of
project varieties.
So anyone that is doing thebreed or trying to do the breed,
any kind of justice, is alwaysgonna specify what color variety
they're working with.
The chicks that you see atTractor Supply, the Americana
(02:30):
spelled with an I and I've evenseen'em spell it correctly with
the a u.
They are not actually Americana.
The Americana, with oneexception, the silver Americana
will never have chipmunk stripedchi down.
So if you look in a bin or youlook in, you know somebody's
(02:52):
brooder and they tell you thatthey have Americana and they
have chipmunk stripes, they areEaster Eggers.
Jennifer (03:00):
Oh, you just got a whole bunch of people hitting
the off switch right there,
Gina (03:05):
or they had an aha moment as that was a key thing for me.
When I first started learningabout Americana, I was like,
wait a minute.
All of these chicks in the binat TSC have stripes and I'm a
fool for chipmunk stripes.
I love the wild type chick down.
But then I looked at, the goodbreeders of Americana and none
(03:27):
of those chicks had stripes.
And I said, what's thedifference here?
And that was before I really gotdeep into the color genetics.
So that splash recognized,
Carey (03:40):
like the color genetics thing is a rabbit hole that you
can get on and not look back.
Gina (03:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Flash is a recognized variety asof November 20, 23.
They are a PA recognized.
Jennifer (03:57):
And that was the show that you went to that got you
the show bug, didn't it?
If I remember correctly,
Gina (04:03):
I actually wasn't able to get away to attend that show, so
that was the first show that Iwas an exhibitor, but I was not
in attendance.
Lindsay Hilton.
She was kind enough to take abird up there for me and show on
my behalf and yeah.
I was like, I don't want to missthis again.
Jennifer (04:24):
Yeah.
So now you got the show bug,huh?
Gina (04:28):
I do, and I'm sitting out show season this spring because
everything's in breeding pins.
I don't really have anythingready.
I didn't.
Didn't raise much of anythinglast fall except for the I sha
so I don't have any pulls.
I don't have any Cockrell.
I am going to the show in Dixonin two weeks and I'll take what
(04:49):
I've got.
But yeah, I don't have much, butI still I need my fix, so I'm
going,
Carey (04:56):
it's a thing.
Gina (04:57):
I'll be there too.
Awesome.
I think it's gonna be a reallygood show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's an Americana Breeders Clubmeet.
It's an Americana Alliance meet,and I think it's a meet for many
other breed clubs, and we'regonna have a bunch of I'm
chimani there too.
Awesome.
Carey (05:14):
That's pretty awesome.
Gina (05:16):
Yeah.
Jennifer (05:18):
Okay, so back to the Americana thing.
Do you have any idea why thehatchery started calling the
Easter Eggers Americana?
Gina (05:29):
That is a great question.
I don't know.
Really don't know.
You've stumped me.
Stu me.
Yeah.
Hey, I'm not afraid to say, Idunno something.
I'm not gonna just makesomething up.
Yeah, it's always irked me, butI've never said why do they do
(05:49):
this?
Other than I feel like it'sdeceitful.
I can't think of any otherreason.
It's like the Rhode Island Red.
They're not real Rhode IslandReds not in my book.
Not at TSC.
Yep.
Yeah.
Jennifer (06:04):
All right.
Since we're, just because it'sred doesn't mean it
Carey (06:06):
has that mahogany look.
Gina (06:09):
No.
Jennifer (06:11):
Since we don't know the answer, do you wanna
continue with the show or wewanna end right here?
Carey (06:18):
If we so much more to
Jennifer (06:18):
talk
Carey (06:18):
about if we did that.
We would never hit a rabbit holeand we would never discover
anything.
Jennifer (06:24):
Nope.
Carey (06:25):
Can't give up.
All
Jennifer (06:26):
right, so well, let's talk about Splash.
So tell us the basis of Splash.
Where does it come from?
So think
Gina (06:37):
of Splash as a dilution.
So when you hear about splash,you always or often see people
say BBS comes from A BBS pen,and BBS is black, blue Splash.
Jennifer (06:54):
And splash
Gina (06:55):
is two dilution of blue on black.
So you go black and you add in adilution gene, like adding
creamer to your coffee.
All right.
I'm gonna add a little bit ofcreamer and it's gonna lighten
that coffee up.
So it's gonna lighten the blackto blue, and then if a bird gets
two copies of blue, one fromeach parent, then that's when
(07:19):
you get into splash territory.
So you add a double dose ofcoffee creamer and you get even
lighter.
But the cool thing about Splashis that.
The tricky thing about Splashreally is that while you want to
double up on that blue dilution,to get the splash color you need
(07:40):
to try to keep the melons thatmake the blue feathers that the
splash does get pop.
So you'll hear people say youcan't breed Splash to splash,
because when you do that,eventually you're just gonna end
up with a white bird if you keepdoing it several generations.
I.
But what's happening when thatdoes happen is that people
(08:02):
aren't paying attention to thesubtle details in the blue
feathers that they did get inthat first generation or that
second generation, and they'reunintentionally breeding out
their meins that they needed tohold onto while reading those
splash.
So it is possible to have anexclusively splash block.
(08:27):
And work to keep good color.
Jennifer (08:32):
Interesting.
So
Carey (08:35):
now I couldn't imagine somebody could not keeping good
records and letting that happen,
Gina (08:39):
nobody does that.
Jennifer (08:41):
It's hard.
I've been known to just, recordsis hard.
Yeah.
It's, you get so busy and youmess'em up too.
Okay, so you're starting with ablack bird and then you have a
blue bird.
Do you have to keep a black or ablue to I don't know emphasize
the splash more later, I guessis the word I'm looking for,
rejuvenate it.
Gina (09:02):
A lot of people do.
And the reason for that is so ona bluebird, a good blue
Americana.
We'll have a darker lacingaround the edge of the feather,
and on a blue you can clearlysee that.
You can see whether they havethe mein or not.
(09:22):
And I say the mein, technicallythey should have two copies of
the melan, a Meno gene, and theyshould also have two copies of
the pattern gene.
So you can look at a blue andyou can say, that's a good blue.
That bird has good color.
On a splash, it's a little bitmore difficult and it's more
(09:42):
difficult on the females than itis on the males.
So when people do screw up ortheir birds start getting
lighter and lighter, it iscommon practice to go back to
the blue so they can pull theirmelons back in.
But when you do that, you onlypulled one copy of the meins
back in.
(10:02):
Let's say you went back to ablue cop, so you're only.
Your offspring is still onlygonna be heterozygous for the
melanins that you need.
You still need to work to getyour splash homozygous, which is
a key thing in any variety, isthat you have homozygosity that
(10:23):
will read through.
Jennifer (10:27):
Okay?
I don't know anything aboutSplash because I don't breed it
and I don't need to know it.
So I'm trying to think ofquestions from a completely
ignorant side of the ball gamehere.
So the splash pattern, is that adistinct pattern or can those
splash swatches come up anywhereon the bird?
Gina (10:51):
It can come up anywhere.
The males, typically it's stillsexually, dimorphic, plumage, we
call it.
And that's when the boys lookdifferent than the girls.
So the males are still going tohave a darker head and shoulders
all the way through the tail.
The females are going to be alittle bit more evenly colored.
Jennifer (11:11):
Gotcha, gotcha.
But, and so these, but the color
Gina (11:14):
can pop up anywhere on the body.
Jennifer (11:17):
Okay.
So these melons you're talkingabout, how do you see those?
Gina (11:23):
In the, in my females, I will look at individual
feathers, whether I have to liftthat feather up, put my hand
underneath it, and I'm lookingfor the lacing that I would be
looking for.
In a blue, you can stand wayback off of a blue and you could
see all of that lacing would besplash.
You have to look at feathersindividually.
Carey (11:44):
Now when you're talking about the lacing, what does that
look like?
Is it like similar to barring isthe way it follows around?
How does it look?
Gina (11:54):
It's not true lacing.
It's technically, I guessprobably called edging.
Okay.
And there's some argument as towhether it is a truly darker
edge on the feather.
Or if it only appears to bedarker when it's laid over
another colored feather.
And so what I want to do with mysplash, and this is why I say I,
(12:18):
I lift the feather up, lay it inmy hand, or i'll pluck the
feather.
I want to see a definite darkerborder all the way around the
edge of that feather where ithas color and it's just on the
edge.
Jennifer (12:35):
So it's kinda like when you're coloring a little
kid is coloring in the coloringbook and then they have the
outline of the color.
Gina (12:42):
Yes, that is exactly, that's a great analogy.
Jennifer (12:47):
Yeah.
It's just chickens.
Chickens aren't that hard untilwe start breaking them apart
into pieces which we tend to dowell.
We are nerds.
It's, yep.
So do the splash Americana haveblue legs?
They have what Color?
Color?
Legs?
Light.
Color legs.
Cool.
(13:08):
And is that easily kept forcolor or is that bleed out to If
you don't pay attention, it's
Gina (13:17):
pretty easily kept.
So it the leg color follows theextension of black locust, the
extension of black jean.
The splash are, they can bebuilt on er, which is virgin, or
they can be built on the actualextension of black, extended
(13:37):
black.
Either one works, but that legcolor kind of follows that along
with a lack of inhibitor or aninhibitor of dermal melanin.
A lack of that will give themthat darker leg.
Jennifer (13:54):
Interesting.
Okay.
And then they have a beat of thecomb.
Their comb is, which kind?
They have a Pete comb.
I wanted to call it a be comband I was like, no, that's
Gina (14:13):
should be.
Low in the front and low andtight to the head and the back.
Raised in the middle.
You want three nice clean rowsof peas, and that goes for any
Americana.
Pretty much.
Same for the slate legs, theAmericana standard for almost
every color variety calls forslate legs.
The Americana as a breed as awhole is described as a medium
(14:37):
sized ve.
So many.
Medium is the most commonlyreferenced word in the Americana
standard.
You know your tail is the mediumlink.
Your beak is a medium link.
Your saddle's a mediumly, yourbeard and your mouths, your
neck, your back, your thighs,your shanks.
Everything is medium.
Carey (14:55):
Is what is medium,
Gina (14:57):
exactly.
It's not.
Is
Carey (14:59):
medium fist width or is it like fist and stick your
pinky out to the side.
Are we talking like somewherebetween a game foul and a large
foul?
What?
Jennifer (15:12):
Yeah.
All those things.
Yeah.
Carey (15:14):
So they define it as medium.
They don't have I think gamefoul is like five pounds, two
ounces or something like that,and they have different style
ranges.
But like they just, for theAmericana's, they just say
medium.
Gina (15:32):
The Americana Cox should be six and a half pounds.
Okay.
He should be five and a halfpounds.
Carey (15:38):
Okay.
Jennifer (15:40):
Yeah, those are little tiny chickens.
Carey (15:44):
Yeah, those, so I'm guessing those are just for.
WW would that be considered adual purpose bird?
Gina (15:54):
They are considered a dual purpose bird.
And the Americana from my lineanyway that I've processed, I
had been I not disappointed withthem as table birds.
They grow fairly fast.
I've got I'm growing out myRhode Island reds and my
Americana together.
My Rhode Island reds they'retall, they're lanky.
(16:17):
They take much, much longer tofinish out.
My Americana excess cock rolls.
They they finish out pretty goodand they'll have more meat on
them than the reds at the sameage.
Yeah.
And they're not they're notterrible layers at all.
Jennifer (16:35):
Okay so we haven't talked about the laying yet.
So they lay blue eggs, right?
They do, yeah.
Is it like a robin's egg blue orlike a sky blue, or can you
brief for a different blue
Gina (16:48):
range of colors that are acceptable for Americana?
Some of them range from prettygreen to.
Robin's egg blue.
The robin's egg blue is prettyrare, but somewhere in the
middle is where most of us fall.
Jennifer (17:08):
And,
Gina (17:08):
There are those that select for egg color.
I've done that a little bit, butI've got some greener layers in
my flock that I'm holding ontobecause they have some
confirmation traits that I wantto keep.
And I'm not ready to cull foregg color just yet.
So
Jennifer (17:28):
do, yeah.
Does the blue get lighter withthe season or with the age of
the hen?
I have
Gina (17:35):
not experienced that in my birds.
My best, my biggest bluestlayer, she will hold onto her
color right to the end of hercycle.
I don't, I'm not sure whatdrives that.
I know it's really common inlike the cream leg bars.
I hear that a lot, that they'llstart off really blue and by the
(17:56):
time they get done to, down tothe end of their cycle, they're,
very pale.
But yeah, I have not experiencedthat in my Americana.
Jennifer (18:04):
Does the Blue Egg taste different than the White
Egg?
Of
Gina (18:07):
course
Jennifer (18:08):
it does.
Carey (18:09):
Yes.
Yes.
It's just like saladon eggs.
They taste different.
Gina (18:15):
An egg is an egg unless it's a duck egg and then it's
fantastic
Jennifer (18:19):
uhhuh.
Yep.
I see that question a lot onsocial media.
Fertilized eggs, blue eggs.
Do they taste different?
An egg is an egg, I think.
I can't tell a difference.
Gina (18:30):
That's one of the moron claim to fame is that moron eggs
tastes better.
Jennifer (18:36):
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can't tell a difference.
Gina (18:40):
No, I can't either.
Carey (18:43):
That's, you want people go
Gina (18:47):
right, Carrie?
Carey (18:49):
I was gonna say there's, you can tell a difference when
you taste them, when you feedthem differently.
But I don't know about the eggs.
I know you could
Gina (18:56):
tell a difference when you feed them too much fish meal.
Carey (19:00):
Now you get a little heavy handed with a fish meal
during breeding season and youaccidentally go to eat one of
those.
Taste a little fishy.
You'd
Gina (19:10):
be sorry.
Is terrible.
I've done it twice now and Idon't ever wanna do it again.
Jennifer (19:17):
So you are just keeping Splash on Splash in the
pen.
Are you keeping blues and blacksalso?
Gina (19:24):
I'm not.
I am exclusively Splash.
Jennifer (19:28):
So you've you've stunned me.
I just was under the impressionthat you had to keep a BBS pen.
So
Gina (19:35):
that's what everyone
Jennifer (19:36):
I'm really stunned.
So if you kept a, let's just sayyou kept a b, S pen and you have
one of each, does that meanyou're just gonna get a variety
in the chicks also, when theyhatch?
So
Gina (19:51):
if you put a, let's say you've got a black male over
blue females, you're gonna get50% hatch black, 50% hatch blue
because those females are goingto have one blue gene in
themselves that they can pass totheir chicks 50% of the time.
(20:14):
If you put a black over splashhens, the splash is gonna
contribute one blue gene 100% ofthe time.
So 100% of your chicks therewill be blue.
It'll be one dilution on black.
If you have a blue male onsplash ends, you can get blue or
(20:38):
splash.
Yeah, you can just keep mixingit up.
All of this, you have to have astrategy ideally, unless you're
just multiplying.
Carey (20:49):
Whoa.
You wanna have a plan?
Gina (20:52):
Yeah, ideally
Carey (20:55):
I thought it was just a hatching addiction.
I have a question.
Jennifer (21:01):
Okay.
Carey (21:02):
Have you noticed with them having the melan gene, do
they have some of the samehatchability issues that other
breed with a melanin gene have?
Gina (21:16):
No, the melanins that they have are common to a lot of
breeds,
Jennifer (21:21):
right?
Gina (21:21):
There are a lot of different meins.
There are plumage melons, thereare skin tissue, organ bone
melons,
Jennifer (21:31):
Gotcha.
Gina (21:32):
These are pretty much just plumage melons and I should say
one mein in the meno gene, andthen the pattern gene, which
just organizes the black color.
It doesn't.
Recognize it.
Carey (21:51):
Okay.
I was curious how that wasworked with them because I don't
know a lot about Americana's.
I have not gotten into thatrabbit hole.
But I was curious about theother, I recently got sent down
one rabbit hole about a me geneand hatchability issues and
(22:11):
trying to figure that out.
And I was wondering if.
All the melan genes were tiedtogether or just how different
they were still in the, tryingto figure all that out.
Gina (22:24):
I think you get into the hatchability issues when you try
to stack all of those meins.
Jennifer (22:31):
Okay,
Carey (22:34):
that
Jennifer (22:34):
makes sense.
So gimme an example of stackingthem.
Gina (22:38):
So I think of chicken colored genetics as a pyramid.
So if you think about the baseof your pyramid, every chicken
in the world is going to beeither silver or gold based.
That's gonna be your foundation.
So we're talking splashAmericana today.
We'll say the splash Americanashould be silver based.
(23:01):
And then the next layer of thepyramid up, every chicken in the
world has some sort of, or oneof the five extensions of black.
That they need to be homozygousfor, meaning they inherit a copy
from both parents, which is whatcauses any variety to bring
breed.
True.
(23:22):
Okay.
So for the splash Americana,it's going to either be extended
black itself or burin.
So then the third level of thepyramid, we know that we need
the metic gene or the, I'msorry.
We'll back up.
We'll say blue.
All right, so we've got thissilver based bird who's gonna be
(23:45):
black with the extended blackallele.
Then we're gonna add the bluedilution.
So we're gonna turn it into ablue bird two copies of blue, or
going to turn it into a splash.
Then I'm gonna stack anotherlevel on the pyramid, and I'm
gonna add in the metic gene,which is going to give a little
(24:07):
bit more color to those.
Double diluted feathers.
And then I'm gonna add anotherLE level to the pyramid, and I'm
gonna add the pattern gene,which is gonna push some of that
extra melanin right to the edgeof the feather and give us that
lacing or edging.
And that's how you build aticket.
Jennifer (24:28):
Okay, so I thought of something that somebody might
not realize.
So when you take the birds tothe shows, it doesn't, it's not
going to matter if your birdcame from a BBS pen or a true
splash pen.
Okay.
(24:48):
Because they're just beingjudged on the phenotype at the
shows.
Carey (24:54):
Correct.
Jennifer (24:54):
And the judge doesn't know if it came from a exclusive
splash pen versus a mixed pen,
Carey (25:03):
nor does he care.
He does know who your daddy is.
Gina (25:07):
No.
And you can get good resultsboth ways genetically.
They can be the.
If you have your genetics youcan breed splash to splash
perpetually, but your geneticshave to be right.
Yeah.
Jennifer (25:26):
Cool.
Do these birds come in banham oronly large foul?
Gina (25:32):
Yes.
So I, every variety of Americanaalso comes in a bantam size.
I don't know, which, I'm not hipon all the Banham news.
But for the most part, all the aPA accepted large file varieties
(25:53):
are also a b, a accepted, exceptI don't think that splash is a
VA accepted yet.
I think that they just got selfblue bantams accepted last fall.
Jennifer (26:11):
Yeah.
All right.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Everything's a work in progress.
That's true.
Once you grasp in the chickenworld that everything is a work
in progress to some point.
Then you realize that you justjump on the train and keep on
trekking with everybody else.
Carey (26:31):
In some instances it helps with your anxiety when
you're trying to perfect yourline.
In some instances, it makes itworse knowing that it's a work
in progress.
I guess if other people arehaving the same problem, you are
you don't feel by yourself.
But once you've improved theline so much.
It's it's a thing.
Jennifer (26:53):
Yeah.
Gina (26:54):
So a splash to splash.
I just wanted to, there's a onebreeder in mind in particular
that has been working on provingthat you can breed Splash to
Splash successfully and.
Generation after generation, hehas some splash that look almost
ermine.
(27:14):
He's got his melons down
Carey (27:17):
all right, so
Gina (27:18):
that's for me too.
Carey (27:20):
I have a question that probably all of our listeners
have been waiting over 20minutes to find out the answer
to what is the differencebetween an Americana and a
Easter egger?
Gina (27:33):
The difference.
Did we covered this at thebeginning though, right?
Or did I cover it in my head?
Jennifer (27:41):
No, we talked about it.
He just wasn't paying attention.
But I think now that we've gotall the details, now we can go
back.
So if you have Americana,regardless of where you got them
from, but now we know that theyhave to have Slate Lakes.
They have to have peak combs.
And if, and they have to bespelled with the a u in them and
(28:07):
they have to have a color beforetheir name or they're just
Easter Eggers, right?
Yes.
So that's what I wanted
Carey (28:14):
to get at.
That's like we talked aboutdifferent parts of that over the
last.
20 minutes or whatever, but Iwanted people to know, because
you do see a lot of peoplesaying they have one thing and
they don't.
So you need to know that you'relooking for a bird that has
slate or a gray colored legs.
(28:36):
You need to know that you'relooking for a bird that has a
peon, or somebody's trying totell you they got something that
they don't.
And it's not worth what they'retrying to charge
Gina (28:49):
and delay it's chicks, if you're buying chicks, the big
tell for me was always theseEaster egger chicks that they're
marketing as Americana's with anI or even marketing as
Americana.
With the correct spelling youare, there's one single variety
of Americana that hatches withthe wild type chick chipmunk
(29:11):
down, and that is the silverAmericana.
And you will not find a silverAmericana through any hatchery.
Silver Americana are bred byonly a handful of breeders.
But you look off in that bin atTSC or rural King or whatever
farm store you go to, and yousee all those chipmunk striped
(29:32):
chicks.
Just know now, you know they arenot true Americana.
Carey (29:38):
Somebody lying.
Gina (29:38):
Yeah.
Jennifer (29:40):
Okay.
So now I wanna talk about yourfarm for just a minute.
How do you keep your recordsstraight with all these breeds?
Do you wing band?
Gina (29:49):
I am a spreadsheets nerd, yes.
We band, we like band multipleleg bands if need be.
I have wing bands and I justtold Keith last night, I'm like,
I am getting the nerve to usethese wing bands this week.
I've got birds that I don't havea choice this year.
(30:10):
I have to wing band.
Carey (30:12):
So you meant tell you how to do it.
Gina (30:14):
Tell me.
Carey (30:15):
All right.
This is what you do.
You go look at your group ofbirds that you want to wing
band, but you're terrified towing band them.
And then you find one that's acoal.
All right?
Then you pick'em up and you hold'em in one hand and find the
little spot between their wingand their body.
You feel the tendon on one sideof your thumb and their body on
(30:37):
the other side.
Poke it in the middle and snapit together.
And when you discover that youfreaked out all this time over
absolutely nothing becausethere's not even any a drop of
blood that comes out and youdidn't kill it.
It was a cold bird if youaccidentally did, but it wasn't
that bad.
Jennifer (30:54):
Yeah,
Carey (30:55):
because this guy right here, the one that will call a
bird because it don't like thechirp, was terrified of killing
a bird from wing banding.
Gina (31:08):
Yeah.
Carey (31:09):
And like I watched Jennifer even has a YouTube
video.
I watched her video.
I listened to her make fun ofme.
I listened to her laugh at me.
I.
And pretty much shamed me intoit.
And I was like, you know what?
Bump it.
I'm gonna go out here.
I opened the brooder up and Ilooked and I was like, I don't
(31:30):
really like you.
Let's do you first.
Boom, grabbed him up.
Chicken one hand fell for thatlittle spot between the tendon,
the wing and the body.
Popped it right through and waslike.
I'm, people can't see me, but myeyes are like the size of a half
dollar right now.
(31:50):
They're like, woo.
Jennifer (31:51):
Oh, you squealed like a little girl on Christmas.
Carey (31:53):
I didn't see any blood and I was so excited that I
could hardly get the pliers toclamp the thing together while I
was doing all this, and I waslike.
Gina (32:05):
That's, I didn't kill, I think I'm more worried about the
pliers than anything.
I'm like, I'm gonna I fumblewith tools.
I'm a do it yourselfer girl.
I love tools.
I don't back down from usingtools, but I will fumble with
them.
So I'm the fumble.
They're pretty
Jennifer (32:21):
well, there's two kinds.
Did you get the zip or did youget the other one?
I don't think you,
Carey (32:27):
the jiffies or the zip.
Jennifer (32:29):
So if you got the Jiffies, then you have to have
'em on the tool to do it.
We have the zips.
They're better.
Gina (32:36):
This is 8 93 Jiffy.
Jennifer (32:40):
All right, hold it up.
Let me see it.
Carey (32:41):
Yeah, let's get scientific for our listeners, or
we can say it.
Jennifer (32:46):
So there's two kinds of wing bands.
That's what we're talking about.
So I use the zips and they're alot, just like putting an
earring in is all they reallyare.
Carey (32:56):
That's what that is.
Jennifer (32:59):
Yeah, that's what, yeah.
Carey (33:00):
So you take the triangle.
Jennifer (33:01):
Yeah, I can do that.
Carey (33:02):
Poke it right through there.
Yeah.
And then I will say this isweird.
So for me, I found it easier touse my hand to bend it down.
And put the hole over the otherpiece that you squish through
it.
Yeah, I'll do that and get it inplace and pinch it with the same
(33:23):
hand that I have the chicken.
And then just reach over, grabthe pliers, pinch it onto the
next.
There you go buddy.
Have a good life.
Jennifer (33:32):
Yeah.
Now all this anxiety over, we'retalking about it.
And do you have to be, all thisanxiety ever talking about is
worse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What
Gina (33:44):
I wanna be particular about you just gonna do it,
putting it a certain way up, oris there a preference that you
found?
You're like, man, I wish I hadput that wing band on the other
way.
So are your ears pierced?
Jennifer (33:57):
The will they were once.
When you, I know exactly.
Okay.
So if you had your earrings inright now, see I haven't worn'em
in a long time either.
But if you put'em in, you knowhow like the whole kind of
attaches to the earring and thenyou get end up having to play
with it to loosen it back upagain.
It's the same thing with thewing band.
So on the breasts where I wantthe number up, so my wing bands
(34:18):
are are have my name on'em.
They say Bryant Roost on'em, andon the other side has the
numbers.
And so on the Orpington's andthe cos, I have the point going
underneath of their wing.
And so the blunt end is whereyou would pick'em up so you
don't poke yourself and you haveto flip it over to read the
(34:38):
numbers.
But on the breasts where I'mwanting to read the numbers
quickly, because you know I'mmoving those through for meat, I
left them pointy side out, sothe numbers are up.
Does that make sense?
Gina (34:52):
Yeah.
But I think that's what I wouldwant too, so I can read the
numbers without.
Trying to turn the bird upsidedown.
Carey (34:58):
See, like for me, my, you don't have to turn it upside
down.
You can flip it.
Yeah.
You don't have to turn it.
Jennifer (35:02):
Yeah.
Gina (35:03):
So
Jennifer (35:03):
just keep in mind that the point I put in will jab you.
Carey (35:08):
Yeah.
I put mine in to where, on myreds where you can like, tug it
up under their wing.
'cause they don't, I even havered ones for them but, and the
perfect age
Jennifer (35:20):
to do it is two to three weeks.
Carey (35:22):
Yeah.
Gina (35:24):
Yeah that's why I brought it up to Keith last night.
It was like, these birds, we'vegotta get'em wing banded before
they get much older.
We're kinda, do you
Jennifer (35:32):
have one right there that needs to be done?
We can do it live on the airright now
Carey (35:39):
if we do that.
This, we're gonna have to putthis clip on YouTube.
Gina (35:43):
No.
The oldest ones I have in thisroom with me are five days old.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a little bit harder.
Yeah.
Carey (35:50):
Yeah.
They're like, they're
Gina (35:53):
less, we could keep it splash related,
Carey (35:56):
but it won't splash out.
But if you do it when they're inthat age range, or roughly
around 50 grams, like it's morecomfortable when you're holding
it because it's not small enoughto slide through your fingers.
Jennifer (36:14):
Yeah,
Carey (36:14):
but it's big enough.
It is not too big where youcan't hold the bird with one
hand.
I don't know.
I like the two week brand.
After you do a few of'em, you'llbe like, I should have been
doing this years ago.
Gina (36:30):
But yeah.
Back to your original question,how we how I keep track of
things.
I am a spreadsheet nerd.
Big time.
I have a spreadsheet that Ibuilt.
Years ago, and I just start anew one every year, make a copy
of the old and transfer over theinformation.
And that spreadsheet is whereall of my information lives.
(36:51):
So on Google Sheets every birdhas a number.
Every bird has notes, theirhatch date, their parentage
anything that's ever been donewith that bird gets documented.
That bird's location, what pennumber they're in right now.
Everything.
And then I got pivot tables thatI can run data analysis on and,
(37:12):
how many birds did I haveavailable for sale and how many
birds of this breed I have.
And, just summarizes all thatstuff.
Carey (37:20):
My inner computer is I wanna see this dagum
spreadsheet.
'cause that's, man she's gotchicken records with pivot
tables in'em.
That's pretty awesome.
Jennifer (37:31):
Yeah.
I don't even know what that is.
Pivot
Gina (37:34):
table is rock.
Carey (37:37):
I, one day I was, we're gonna, we're gonna
Jennifer (37:38):
have to have lunch one day.
Carey (37:40):
I was telling my wife, I was like, Hey, I created a
spreadsheet this today.
And she looked at me and I waslike, she has if then statements
in it and tables.
Yeah.
Jennifer (37:51):
And
Carey (37:51):
she was like, and you didn't get me to do it for you.
I said, no.
Because normally, like she'sreally handy at Excel and I'll
give her some weird crap that Iwant a sheet to do and, act like
she doesn't have anything elseto do with her time, but create
a sheet for me and get her to doit for me.
But yeah, I was pretty proud ofmyself.
(38:12):
I did it myself.
Gina (38:14):
Yeah.
Nice.
I
Carey (38:16):
may actually grow up one day.
Gina (38:19):
Yeah.
Jennifer (38:19):
All right.
We have gone down all the rabbitholes I think at this point,
don't you?
That we need to for today.
Carey (38:28):
We've talked about Americana's, how to identify
them.
We've talked about their genesand we've talked about the
difference in somebody trying toshaft you and somebody selling
you an actual Americana andspelling it correctly and melons
and
Gina (38:44):
look at you.
Gina.
Gina, did we leave
Carey (38:46):
anything out?
Gina (38:48):
There's so much more to the Americana than what we
talked about today.
They're awesome birds.
But yeah, the splash inparticular, I think we pretty
well covered it.
Jennifer (39:01):
Yep.
All right.
You let us know how the wingbanding goes.
Okay.
I will.
It's fixing to happen.
All right.
Carey (39:07):
Tell Keith we wanted him to video it for us.
Jennifer (39:10):
Okay.
Yes, I promise not to spoil.
Alright, thanks for being backagain.
Carey (39:15):
Yep.
Jennifer (39:18):
All right.
See you guys.
Thank you.
Welcome poultry nerds.
We are back again with Gina fromWrather Farms I'm gonna butcher
your name.
Carey (00:11):
That's what I thought.
While we're name dropping, let'smake sure it's right.
Jennifer (00:17):
Look, I, so I had the
Carey (00:19):
privilege to go by there the other day and see some of
the stuff that I've heard hertalk about.
And I'm just gonna say for thoselisteners that can't see me
holding two thumbs up, twothumbs up.
Jennifer (00:32):
Aw, thank you.
So I've seen pictures of herstore on our Facebook page.
It's cute.
Carey (00:37):
Look, it is really neat.
Like when you pull up and it's,boom, here it is.
And you walk in and you feellike you're in a monstrous
store, and it's got everythingthere.
And then all the.
She looks like a hatching timecommercial behind her.
Which, we can, we on here, weunderstand and support each
other's addictions.
Yeah.
(00:58):
So we get it.
But it was really nice
Gina (01:01):
works, man.
Hatching time has done us good.
Really good.
Yep.
Yep.
Jennifer (01:08):
They do.
So today we've gone through allof your breeds and we're hitting
the last one, I think.
Gina (01:14):
Oh, we haven't talked about the black copper maran.
Jennifer (01:18):
Oh no.
We're gonna put them on hold.
So today we're talking aboutsplashing the maran.
We actually got some requests totalk about this, and that's when
I messaged you and I said, Hey,we've got requests to talk about
these genetics.
So first of all, I wanna startwith the most basic of basic.
(01:40):
What's the difference between anAmericana.
An Americana.
Gina (01:45):
Oh yeah.
Okay.
So if you see birds advertisedas, Hey, Americana, chicks for
sale, they're probably not trueAmericana.
So anyone that breeds trueAmericana is always going to
proceed The Americana name withthe Keller variety, there are
(02:09):
10.
A PA recognized color varietiesfor Americana and a number of
project varieties.
So anyone that is doing thebreed or trying to do the breed,
any kind of justice, is alwaysgonna specify what color variety
they're working with.
The chicks that you see atTractor Supply, the Americana
(02:30):
spelled with an I and I've evenseen'em spell it correctly with
the a u.
They are not actually Americana.
The Americana, with oneexception, the silver Americana
will never have chipmunk stripedchi down.
So if you look in a bin or youlook in, you know somebody's
(02:52):
brooder and they tell you thatthey have Americana and they
have chipmunk stripes, they areEaster Eggers.
Jennifer (03:00):
Oh, you just got a whole bunch of people hitting
the off switch right there,
Gina (03:05):
or they had an aha moment as that was a key thing for me.
When I first started learningabout Americana, I was like,
wait a minute.
All of these chicks in the binat TSC have stripes and I'm a
fool for chipmunk stripes.
I love the wild type chick down.
But then I looked at, the goodbreeders of Americana and none
(03:27):
of those chicks had stripes.
And I said, what's thedifference here?
And that was before I really gotdeep into the color genetics.
So that splash recognized,
Carey (03:40):
like the color genetics thing is a rabbit hole that you
can get on and not look back.
Gina (03:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Flash is a recognized variety asof November 20, 23.
They are a PA recognized.
Jennifer (03:57):
And that was the show that you went to that got you
the show bug, didn't it?
If I remember correctly,
Gina (04:03):
I actually wasn't able to get away to attend that show, so
that was the first show that Iwas an exhibitor, but I was not
in attendance.
Lindsay Hilton.
She was kind enough to take abird up there for me and show on
my behalf and yeah.
I was like, I don't want to missthis again.
Jennifer (04:24):
Yeah.
So now you got the show bug,huh?
Gina (04:28):
I do, and I'm sitting out show season this spring because
everything's in breeding pins.
I don't really have anythingready.
I didn't.
Didn't raise much of anythinglast fall except for the I sha
so I don't have any pulls.
I don't have any Cockrell.
I am going to the show in Dixonin two weeks and I'll take what
(04:49):
I've got.
But yeah, I don't have much, butI still I need my fix, so I'm
going,
Carey (04:56):
it's a thing.
Gina (04:57):
I'll be there too.
Awesome.
I think it's gonna be a reallygood show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's an Americana Breeders Clubmeet.
It's an Americana Alliance meet,and I think it's a meet for many
other breed clubs, and we'regonna have a bunch of I'm
chimani there too.
Awesome.
Carey (05:14):
That's pretty awesome.
Gina (05:16):
Yeah.
Jennifer (05:18):
Okay, so back to the Americana thing.
Do you have any idea why thehatchery started calling the
Easter Eggers Americana?
Gina (05:29):
That is a great question.
I don't know.
Really don't know.
You've stumped me.
Stu me.
Yeah.
Hey, I'm not afraid to say, Idunno something.
I'm not gonna just makesomething up.
Yeah, it's always irked me, butI've never said why do they do
(05:49):
this?
Other than I feel like it'sdeceitful.
I can't think of any otherreason.
It's like the Rhode Island Red.
They're not real Rhode IslandReds not in my book.
Not at TSC.
Yep.
Yeah.
Jennifer (06:04):
All right.
Since we're, just because it'sred doesn't mean it
Carey (06:06):
has that mahogany look.
Gina (06:09):
No.
Jennifer (06:11):
Since we don't know the answer, do you wanna
continue with the show or wewanna end right here?
Carey (06:18):
If we so much more to
Jennifer (06:18):
talk
Carey (06:18):
about if we did that.
We would never hit a rabbit holeand we would never discover
anything.
Jennifer (06:24):
Nope.
Carey (06:25):
Can't give up.
All
Jennifer (06:26):
right, so well, let's talk about Splash.
So tell us the basis of Splash.
Where does it come from?
So think
Gina (06:37):
of Splash as a dilution.
So when you hear about splash,you always or often see people
say BBS comes from A BBS pen,and BBS is black, blue Splash.
Jennifer (06:54):
And splash
Gina (06:55):
is two dilution of blue on black.
So you go black and you add in adilution gene, like adding
creamer to your coffee.
All right.
I'm gonna add a little bit ofcreamer and it's gonna lighten
that coffee up.
So it's gonna lighten the blackto blue, and then if a bird gets
two copies of blue, one fromeach parent, then that's when
(07:19):
you get into splash territory.
So you add a double dose ofcoffee creamer and you get even
lighter.
But the cool thing about Splashis that.
The tricky thing about Splashreally is that while you want to
double up on that blue dilution,to get the splash color you need
(07:40):
to try to keep the melons thatmake the blue feathers that the
splash does get pop.
So you'll hear people say youcan't breed Splash to splash,
because when you do that,eventually you're just gonna end
up with a white bird if you keepdoing it several generations.
I.
But what's happening when thatdoes happen is that people
(08:02):
aren't paying attention to thesubtle details in the blue
feathers that they did get inthat first generation or that
second generation, and they'reunintentionally breeding out
their meins that they needed tohold onto while reading those
splash.
So it is possible to have anexclusively splash block.
(08:27):
And work to keep good color.
Jennifer (08:32):
Interesting.
So
Carey (08:35):
now I couldn't imagine somebody could not keeping good
records and letting that happen,
Gina (08:39):
nobody does that.
Jennifer (08:41):
It's hard.
I've been known to just, recordsis hard.
Yeah.
It's, you get so busy and youmess'em up too.
Okay, so you're starting with ablack bird and then you have a
blue bird.
Do you have to keep a black or ablue to I don't know emphasize
the splash more later, I guessis the word I'm looking for,
rejuvenate it.
Gina (09:02):
A lot of people do.
And the reason for that is so ona bluebird, a good blue
Americana.
We'll have a darker lacingaround the edge of the feather,
and on a blue you can clearlysee that.
You can see whether they havethe mein or not.
(09:22):
And I say the mein, technicallythey should have two copies of
the melan, a Meno gene, and theyshould also have two copies of
the pattern gene.
So you can look at a blue andyou can say, that's a good blue.
That bird has good color.
On a splash, it's a little bitmore difficult and it's more
(09:42):
difficult on the females than itis on the males.
So when people do screw up ortheir birds start getting
lighter and lighter, it iscommon practice to go back to
the blue so they can pull theirmelons back in.
But when you do that, you onlypulled one copy of the meins
back in.
(10:02):
Let's say you went back to ablue cop, so you're only.
Your offspring is still onlygonna be heterozygous for the
melanins that you need.
You still need to work to getyour splash homozygous, which is
a key thing in any variety, isthat you have homozygosity that
(10:23):
will read through.
Jennifer (10:27):
Okay?
I don't know anything aboutSplash because I don't breed it
and I don't need to know it.
So I'm trying to think ofquestions from a completely
ignorant side of the ball gamehere.
So the splash pattern, is that adistinct pattern or can those
splash swatches come up anywhereon the bird?
Gina (10:51):
It can come up anywhere.
The males, typically it's stillsexually, dimorphic, plumage, we
call it.
And that's when the boys lookdifferent than the girls.
So the males are still going tohave a darker head and shoulders
all the way through the tail.
The females are going to be alittle bit more evenly colored.
Jennifer (11:11):
Gotcha, gotcha.
But, and so these, but the color
Gina (11:14):
can pop up anywhere on the body.
Jennifer (11:17):
Okay.
So these melons you're talkingabout, how do you see those?
Gina (11:23):
In the, in my females, I will look at individual
feathers, whether I have to liftthat feather up, put my hand
underneath it, and I'm lookingfor the lacing that I would be
looking for.
In a blue, you can stand wayback off of a blue and you could
see all of that lacing would besplash.
You have to look at feathersindividually.
Carey (11:44):
Now when you're talking about the lacing, what does that
look like?
Is it like similar to barring isthe way it follows around?
How does it look?
Gina (11:54):
It's not true lacing.
It's technically, I guessprobably called edging.
Okay.
And there's some argument as towhether it is a truly darker
edge on the feather.
Or if it only appears to bedarker when it's laid over
another colored feather.
And so what I want to do with mysplash, and this is why I say I,
(12:18):
I lift the feather up, lay it inmy hand, or i'll pluck the
feather.
I want to see a definite darkerborder all the way around the
edge of that feather where ithas color and it's just on the
edge.
Jennifer (12:35):
So it's kinda like when you're coloring a little
kid is coloring in the coloringbook and then they have the
outline of the color.
Gina (12:42):
Yes, that is exactly, that's a great analogy.
Jennifer (12:47):
Yeah.
It's just chickens.
Chickens aren't that hard untilwe start breaking them apart
into pieces which we tend to dowell.
We are nerds.
It's, yep.
So do the splash Americana haveblue legs?
They have what Color?
Color?
Legs?
Light.
Color legs.
Cool.
(13:08):
And is that easily kept forcolor or is that bleed out to If
you don't pay attention, it's
Gina (13:17):
pretty easily kept.
So it the leg color follows theextension of black locust, the
extension of black jean.
The splash are, they can bebuilt on er, which is virgin, or
they can be built on the actualextension of black, extended
(13:37):
black.
Either one works, but that legcolor kind of follows that along
with a lack of inhibitor or aninhibitor of dermal melanin.
A lack of that will give themthat darker leg.
Jennifer (13:54):
Interesting.
Okay.
And then they have a beat of thecomb.
Their comb is, which kind?
They have a Pete comb.
I wanted to call it a be comband I was like, no, that's
Gina (14:13):
should be.
Low in the front and low andtight to the head and the back.
Raised in the middle.
You want three nice clean rowsof peas, and that goes for any
Americana.
Pretty much.
Same for the slate legs, theAmericana standard for almost
every color variety calls forslate legs.
The Americana as a breed as awhole is described as a medium
(14:37):
sized ve.
So many.
Medium is the most commonlyreferenced word in the Americana
standard.
You know your tail is the mediumlink.
Your beak is a medium link.
Your saddle's a mediumly, yourbeard and your mouths, your
neck, your back, your thighs,your shanks.
Everything is medium.
Carey (14:55):
Is what is medium,
Gina (14:57):
exactly.
It's not.
Is
Carey (14:59):
medium fist width or is it like fist and stick your
pinky out to the side.
Are we talking like somewherebetween a game foul and a large
foul?
What?
Jennifer (15:12):
Yeah.
All those things.
Yeah.
Carey (15:14):
So they define it as medium.
They don't have I think gamefoul is like five pounds, two
ounces or something like that,and they have different style
ranges.
But like they just, for theAmericana's, they just say
medium.
Gina (15:32):
The Americana Cox should be six and a half pounds.
Okay.
He should be five and a halfpounds.
Carey (15:38):
Okay.
Jennifer (15:40):
Yeah, those are little tiny chickens.
Carey (15:44):
Yeah, those, so I'm guessing those are just for.
WW would that be considered adual purpose bird?
Gina (15:54):
They are considered a dual purpose bird.
And the Americana from my lineanyway that I've processed, I
had been I not disappointed withthem as table birds.
They grow fairly fast.
I've got I'm growing out myRhode Island reds and my
Americana together.
My Rhode Island reds they'retall, they're lanky.
(16:17):
They take much, much longer tofinish out.
My Americana excess cock rolls.
They they finish out pretty goodand they'll have more meat on
them than the reds at the sameage.
Yeah.
And they're not they're notterrible layers at all.
Jennifer (16:35):
Okay so we haven't talked about the laying yet.
So they lay blue eggs, right?
They do, yeah.
Is it like a robin's egg blue orlike a sky blue, or can you
brief for a different blue
Gina (16:48):
range of colors that are acceptable for Americana?
Some of them range from prettygreen to.
Robin's egg blue.
The robin's egg blue is prettyrare, but somewhere in the
middle is where most of us fall.
Jennifer (17:08):
And,
Gina (17:08):
There are those that select for egg color.
I've done that a little bit, butI've got some greener layers in
my flock that I'm holding ontobecause they have some
confirmation traits that I wantto keep.
And I'm not ready to cull foregg color just yet.
So
Jennifer (17:28):
do, yeah.
Does the blue get lighter withthe season or with the age of
the hen?
I have
Gina (17:35):
not experienced that in my birds.
My best, my biggest bluestlayer, she will hold onto her
color right to the end of hercycle.
I don't, I'm not sure whatdrives that.
I know it's really common inlike the cream leg bars.
I hear that a lot, that they'llstart off really blue and by the
(17:56):
time they get done to, down tothe end of their cycle, they're,
very pale.
But yeah, I have not experiencedthat in my Americana.
Jennifer (18:04):
Does the Blue Egg taste different than the White
Egg?
Of
Gina (18:07):
course
Jennifer (18:08):
it does.
Carey (18:09):
Yes.
Yes.
It's just like saladon eggs.
They taste different.
Gina (18:15):
An egg is an egg unless it's a duck egg and then it's
fantastic
Jennifer (18:19):
uhhuh.
Yep.
I see that question a lot onsocial media.
Fertilized eggs, blue eggs.
Do they taste different?
An egg is an egg, I think.
I can't tell a difference.
Gina (18:30):
That's one of the moron claim to fame is that moron eggs
tastes better.
Jennifer (18:36):
Uhhuh.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I can't tell a difference.
Gina (18:40):
No, I can't either.
Carey (18:43):
That's, you want people go
Gina (18:47):
right, Carrie?
Carey (18:49):
I was gonna say there's, you can tell a difference when
you taste them, when you feedthem differently.
But I don't know about the eggs.
I know you could
Gina (18:56):
tell a difference when you feed them too much fish meal.
Carey (19:00):
Now you get a little heavy handed with a fish meal
during breeding season and youaccidentally go to eat one of
those.
Taste a little fishy.
You'd
Gina (19:10):
be sorry.
Is terrible.
I've done it twice now and Idon't ever wanna do it again.
Jennifer (19:17):
So you are just keeping Splash on Splash in the
pen.
Are you keeping blues and blacksalso?
Gina (19:24):
I'm not.
I am exclusively Splash.
Jennifer (19:28):
So you've you've stunned me.
I just was under the impressionthat you had to keep a BBS pen.
So
Gina (19:35):
that's what everyone
Jennifer (19:36):
I'm really stunned.
So if you kept a, let's just sayyou kept a b, S pen and you have
one of each, does that meanyou're just gonna get a variety
in the chicks also, when theyhatch?
So
Gina (19:51):
if you put a, let's say you've got a black male over
blue females, you're gonna get50% hatch black, 50% hatch blue
because those females are goingto have one blue gene in
themselves that they can pass totheir chicks 50% of the time.
(20:14):
If you put a black over splashhens, the splash is gonna
contribute one blue gene 100% ofthe time.
So 100% of your chicks therewill be blue.
It'll be one dilution on black.
If you have a blue male onsplash ends, you can get blue or
(20:38):
splash.
Yeah, you can just keep mixingit up.
All of this, you have to have astrategy ideally, unless you're
just multiplying.
Carey (20:49):
Whoa.
You wanna have a plan?
Gina (20:52):
Yeah, ideally
Carey (20:55):
I thought it was just a hatching addiction.
I have a question.
Jennifer (21:01):
Okay.
Carey (21:02):
Have you noticed with them having the melan gene, do
they have some of the samehatchability issues that other
breed with a melanin gene have?
Gina (21:16):
No, the melanins that they have are common to a lot of
breeds,
Jennifer (21:21):
right?
Gina (21:21):
There are a lot of different meins.
There are plumage melons, thereare skin tissue, organ bone
melons,
Jennifer (21:31):
Gotcha.
Gina (21:32):
These are pretty much just plumage melons and I should say
one mein in the meno gene, andthen the pattern gene, which
just organizes the black color.
It doesn't.
Recognize it.
Carey (21:51):
Okay.
I was curious how that wasworked with them because I don't
know a lot about Americana's.
I have not gotten into thatrabbit hole.
But I was curious about theother, I recently got sent down
one rabbit hole about a me geneand hatchability issues and
(22:11):
trying to figure that out.
And I was wondering if.
All the melan genes were tiedtogether or just how different
they were still in the, tryingto figure all that out.
Gina (22:24):
I think you get into the hatchability issues when you try
to stack all of those meins.
Jennifer (22:31):
Okay,
Carey (22:34):
that
Jennifer (22:34):
makes sense.
So gimme an example of stackingthem.
Gina (22:38):
So I think of chicken colored genetics as a pyramid.
So if you think about the baseof your pyramid, every chicken
in the world is going to beeither silver or gold based.
That's gonna be your foundation.
So we're talking splashAmericana today.
We'll say the splash Americanashould be silver based.
(23:01):
And then the next layer of thepyramid up, every chicken in the
world has some sort of, or oneof the five extensions of black.
That they need to be homozygousfor, meaning they inherit a copy
from both parents, which is whatcauses any variety to bring
breed.
True.
(23:22):
Okay.
So for the splash Americana,it's going to either be extended
black itself or burin.
So then the third level of thepyramid, we know that we need
the metic gene or the, I'msorry.
We'll back up.
We'll say blue.
All right, so we've got thissilver based bird who's gonna be
(23:45):
black with the extended blackallele.
Then we're gonna add the bluedilution.
So we're gonna turn it into ablue bird two copies of blue, or
going to turn it into a splash.
Then I'm gonna stack anotherlevel on the pyramid, and I'm
gonna add in the metic gene,which is going to give a little
(24:07):
bit more color to those.
Double diluted feathers.
And then I'm gonna add anotherLE level to the pyramid, and I'm
gonna add the pattern gene,which is gonna push some of that
extra melanin right to the edgeof the feather and give us that
lacing or edging.
And that's how you build aticket.
Jennifer (24:28):
Okay, so I thought of something that somebody might
not realize.
So when you take the birds tothe shows, it doesn't, it's not
going to matter if your birdcame from a BBS pen or a true
splash pen.
Okay.
(24:48):
Because they're just beingjudged on the phenotype at the
shows.
Carey (24:54):
Correct.
Jennifer (24:54):
And the judge doesn't know if it came from a exclusive
splash pen versus a mixed pen,
Carey (25:03):
nor does he care.
He does know who your daddy is.
Gina (25:07):
No.
And you can get good resultsboth ways genetically.
They can be the.
If you have your genetics youcan breed splash to splash
perpetually, but your geneticshave to be right.
Yeah.
Jennifer (25:26):
Cool.
Do these birds come in banham oronly large foul?
Gina (25:32):
Yes.
So I, every variety of Americanaalso comes in a bantam size.
I don't know, which, I'm not hipon all the Banham news.
But for the most part, all the aPA accepted large file varieties
(25:53):
are also a b, a accepted, exceptI don't think that splash is a
VA accepted yet.
I think that they just got selfblue bantams accepted last fall.
Jennifer (26:11):
Yeah.
All right.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Everything's a work in progress.
That's true.
Once you grasp in the chickenworld that everything is a work
in progress to some point.
Then you realize that you justjump on the train and keep on
trekking with everybody else.
Carey (26:31):
In some instances it helps with your anxiety when
you're trying to perfect yourline.
In some instances, it makes itworse knowing that it's a work
in progress.
I guess if other people arehaving the same problem, you are
you don't feel by yourself.
But once you've improved theline so much.
It's it's a thing.
Jennifer (26:53):
Yeah.
Gina (26:54):
So a splash to splash.
I just wanted to, there's a onebreeder in mind in particular
that has been working on provingthat you can breed Splash to
Splash successfully and.
Generation after generation, hehas some splash that look almost
ermine.
(27:14):
He's got his melons down
Carey (27:17):
all right, so
Gina (27:18):
that's for me too.
Carey (27:20):
I have a question that probably all of our listeners
have been waiting over 20minutes to find out the answer
to what is the differencebetween an Americana and a
Easter egger?
Gina (27:33):
The difference.
Did we covered this at thebeginning though, right?
Or did I cover it in my head?
Jennifer (27:41):
No, we talked about it.
He just wasn't paying attention.
But I think now that we've gotall the details, now we can go
back.
So if you have Americana,regardless of where you got them
from, but now we know that theyhave to have Slate Lakes.
They have to have peak combs.
And if, and they have to bespelled with the a u in them and
(28:07):
they have to have a color beforetheir name or they're just
Easter Eggers, right?
Yes.
So that's what I wanted
Carey (28:14):
to get at.
That's like we talked aboutdifferent parts of that over the
last.
20 minutes or whatever, but Iwanted people to know, because
you do see a lot of peoplesaying they have one thing and
they don't.
So you need to know that you'relooking for a bird that has
slate or a gray colored legs.
(28:36):
You need to know that you'relooking for a bird that has a
peon, or somebody's trying totell you they got something that
they don't.
And it's not worth what they'retrying to charge
Gina (28:49):
and delay it's chicks, if you're buying chicks, the big
tell for me was always theseEaster egger chicks that they're
marketing as Americana's with anI or even marketing as
Americana.
With the correct spelling youare, there's one single variety
of Americana that hatches withthe wild type chick chipmunk
(29:11):
down, and that is the silverAmericana.
And you will not find a silverAmericana through any hatchery.
Silver Americana are bred byonly a handful of breeders.
But you look off in that bin atTSC or rural King or whatever
farm store you go to, and yousee all those chipmunk striped
(29:32):
chicks.
Just know now, you know they arenot true Americana.
Carey (29:38):
Somebody lying.
Gina (29:38):
Yeah.
Jennifer (29:40):
Okay.
So now I wanna talk about yourfarm for just a minute.
How do you keep your recordsstraight with all these breeds?
Do you wing band?
Gina (29:49):
I am a spreadsheets nerd, yes.
We band, we like band multipleleg bands if need be.
I have wing bands and I justtold Keith last night, I'm like,
I am getting the nerve to usethese wing bands this week.
I've got birds that I don't havea choice this year.
(30:10):
I have to wing band.
Carey (30:12):
So you meant tell you how to do it.
Gina (30:14):
Tell me.
Carey (30:15):
All right.
This is what you do.
You go look at your group ofbirds that you want to wing
band, but you're terrified towing band them.
And then you find one that's acoal.
All right?
Then you pick'em up and you hold'em in one hand and find the
little spot between their wingand their body.
You feel the tendon on one sideof your thumb and their body on
(30:37):
the other side.
Poke it in the middle and snapit together.
And when you discover that youfreaked out all this time over
absolutely nothing becausethere's not even any a drop of
blood that comes out and youdidn't kill it.
It was a cold bird if youaccidentally did, but it wasn't
that bad.
Jennifer (30:54):
Yeah,
Carey (30:55):
because this guy right here, the one that will call a
bird because it don't like thechirp, was terrified of killing
a bird from wing banding.
Gina (31:08):
Yeah.
Carey (31:09):
And like I watched Jennifer even has a YouTube
video.
I watched her video.
I listened to her make fun ofme.
I listened to her laugh at me.
I.
And pretty much shamed me intoit.
And I was like, you know what?
Bump it.
I'm gonna go out here.
I opened the brooder up and Ilooked and I was like, I don't
(31:30):
really like you.
Let's do you first.
Boom, grabbed him up.
Chicken one hand fell for thatlittle spot between the tendon,
the wing and the body.
Popped it right through and waslike.
I'm, people can't see me, but myeyes are like the size of a half
dollar right now.
(31:50):
They're like, woo.
Jennifer (31:51):
Oh, you squealed like a little girl on Christmas.
Carey (31:53):
I didn't see any blood and I was so excited that I
could hardly get the pliers toclamp the thing together while I
was doing all this, and I waslike.
Gina (32:05):
That's, I didn't kill, I think I'm more worried about the
pliers than anything.
I'm like, I'm gonna I fumblewith tools.
I'm a do it yourselfer girl.
I love tools.
I don't back down from usingtools, but I will fumble with
them.
So I'm the fumble.
They're pretty
Jennifer (32:21):
well, there's two kinds.
Did you get the zip or did youget the other one?
I don't think you,
Carey (32:27):
the jiffies or the zip.
Jennifer (32:29):
So if you got the Jiffies, then you have to have
'em on the tool to do it.
We have the zips.
They're better.
Gina (32:36):
This is 8 93 Jiffy.
Jennifer (32:40):
All right, hold it up.
Let me see it.
Carey (32:41):
Yeah, let's get scientific for our listeners, or
we can say it.
Jennifer (32:46):
So there's two kinds of wing bands.
That's what we're talking about.
So I use the zips and they're alot, just like putting an
earring in is all they reallyare.
Carey (32:56):
That's what that is.
Jennifer (32:59):
Yeah, that's what, yeah.
Carey (33:00):
So you take the triangle.
Jennifer (33:01):
Yeah, I can do that.
Carey (33:02):
Poke it right through there.
Yeah.
And then I will say this isweird.
So for me, I found it easier touse my hand to bend it down.
And put the hole over the otherpiece that you squish through
it.
Yeah, I'll do that and get it inplace and pinch it with the same
(33:23):
hand that I have the chicken.
And then just reach over, grabthe pliers, pinch it onto the
next.
There you go buddy.
Have a good life.
Jennifer (33:32):
Yeah.
Now all this anxiety over, we'retalking about it.
And do you have to be, all thisanxiety ever talking about is
worse.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What
Gina (33:44):
I wanna be particular about you just gonna do it,
putting it a certain way up, oris there a preference that you
found?
You're like, man, I wish I hadput that wing band on the other
way.
So are your ears pierced?
Jennifer (33:57):
The will they were once.
When you, I know exactly.
Okay.
So if you had your earrings inright now, see I haven't worn'em
in a long time either.
But if you put'em in, you knowhow like the whole kind of
attaches to the earring and thenyou get end up having to play
with it to loosen it back upagain.
It's the same thing with thewing band.
So on the breasts where I wantthe number up, so my wing bands
(34:18):
are are have my name on'em.
They say Bryant Roost on'em, andon the other side has the
numbers.
And so on the Orpington's andthe cos, I have the point going
underneath of their wing.
And so the blunt end is whereyou would pick'em up so you
don't poke yourself and you haveto flip it over to read the
(34:38):
numbers.
But on the breasts where I'mwanting to read the numbers
quickly, because you know I'mmoving those through for meat, I
left them pointy side out, sothe numbers are up.
Does that make sense?
Gina (34:52):
Yeah.
But I think that's what I wouldwant too, so I can read the
numbers without.
Trying to turn the bird upsidedown.
Carey (34:58):
See, like for me, my, you don't have to turn it upside
down.
You can flip it.
Yeah.
You don't have to turn it.
Jennifer (35:02):
Yeah.
Gina (35:03):
So
Jennifer (35:03):
just keep in mind that the point I put in will jab you.
Carey (35:08):
Yeah.
I put mine in to where, on myreds where you can like, tug it
up under their wing.
'cause they don't, I even havered ones for them but, and the
perfect age
Jennifer (35:20):
to do it is two to three weeks.
Carey (35:22):
Yeah.
Gina (35:24):
Yeah that's why I brought it up to Keith last night.
It was like, these birds, we'vegotta get'em wing banded before
they get much older.
We're kinda, do you
Jennifer (35:32):
have one right there that needs to be done?
We can do it live on the airright now
Carey (35:39):
if we do that.
This, we're gonna have to putthis clip on YouTube.
Gina (35:43):
No.
The oldest ones I have in thisroom with me are five days old.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a little bit harder.
Yeah.
Carey (35:50):
Yeah.
They're like, they're
Gina (35:53):
less, we could keep it splash related,
Carey (35:56):
but it won't splash out.
But if you do it when they're inthat age range, or roughly
around 50 grams, like it's morecomfortable when you're holding
it because it's not small enoughto slide through your fingers.
Jennifer (36:14):
Yeah,
Carey (36:14):
but it's big enough.
It is not too big where youcan't hold the bird with one
hand.
I don't know.
I like the two week brand.
After you do a few of'em, you'llbe like, I should have been
doing this years ago.
Gina (36:30):
But yeah.
Back to your original question,how we how I keep track of
things.
I am a spreadsheet nerd.
Big time.
I have a spreadsheet that Ibuilt.
Years ago, and I just start anew one every year, make a copy
of the old and transfer over theinformation.
And that spreadsheet is whereall of my information lives.
(36:51):
So on Google Sheets every birdhas a number.
Every bird has notes, theirhatch date, their parentage
anything that's ever been donewith that bird gets documented.
That bird's location, what pennumber they're in right now.
Everything.
And then I got pivot tables thatI can run data analysis on and,
(37:12):
how many birds did I haveavailable for sale and how many
birds of this breed I have.
And, just summarizes all thatstuff.
Carey (37:20):
My inner computer is I wanna see this dagum
spreadsheet.
'cause that's, man she's gotchicken records with pivot
tables in'em.
That's pretty awesome.
Jennifer (37:31):
Yeah.
I don't even know what that is.
Pivot
Gina (37:34):
table is rock.
Carey (37:37):
I, one day I was, we're gonna, we're gonna
Jennifer (37:38):
have to have lunch one day.
Carey (37:40):
I was telling my wife, I was like, Hey, I created a
spreadsheet this today.
And she looked at me and I waslike, she has if then statements
in it and tables.
Yeah.
Jennifer (37:51):
And
Carey (37:51):
she was like, and you didn't get me to do it for you.
I said, no.
Because normally, like she'sreally handy at Excel and I'll
give her some weird crap that Iwant a sheet to do and, act like
she doesn't have anything elseto do with her time, but create
a sheet for me and get her to doit for me.
But yeah, I was pretty proud ofmyself.
(38:12):
I did it myself.
Gina (38:14):
Yeah.
Nice.
I
Carey (38:16):
may actually grow up one day.
Gina (38:19):
Yeah.
Jennifer (38:19):
All right.
We have gone down all the rabbitholes I think at this point,
don't you?
That we need to for today.
Carey (38:28):
We've talked about Americana's, how to identify
them.
We've talked about their genesand we've talked about the
difference in somebody trying toshaft you and somebody selling
you an actual Americana andspelling it correctly and melons
and
Gina (38:44):
look at you.
Gina.
Gina, did we leave
Carey (38:46):
anything out?
Gina (38:48):
There's so much more to the Americana than what we
talked about today.
They're awesome birds.
But yeah, the splash inparticular, I think we pretty
well covered it.
Jennifer (39:01):
Yep.
All right.
You let us know how the wingbanding goes.
Okay.
I will.
It's fixing to happen.
All right.
Carey (39:07):
Tell Keith we wanted him to video it for us.
Jennifer (39:10):
Okay.
Yes, I promise not to spoil.
Alright, thanks for being backagain.
Carey (39:15):
Yep.
Jennifer (39:18):
All right.
See you guys.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.