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Everything You Need to Know About Bird Flu in Backyard Chickens 🐔 | Poultry Nerds Podcast w/ Dr. Teresa Morishita
In this episode of the Poultry Nerds Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Teresa Morishita, a poultry veterinarian and professor of poultry medicine and food safety, to answer all your burning questions about avian influenza (H5N1) and how it affects backyard poultry flocks.
👉 What is bird flu and how does it spread?
👉 Can humans catch bird flu from chickens?
👉 What are the symptoms of avian influenza in chickens?
👉 How can you protect your flock with biosecurity?
👉 Do backyard flocks really get infected — and what happens if they do?
👉 Is a vaccine coming?
This deep-dive is packed with valuable tips for chicken keepers, homesteaders, exhibition breeders, and anyone who loves their birds. 🐣💛
🔬 Featuring real science, real talk, and a lot of nerdy chicken goodness.
🧠 Learn how to build a flock health plan, spot symptoms early, and why “they’re dead” might be the first sign of something serious.
📍 Guest: Dr. Theresa Morishita, DVM – Professor at Western University of Health Sciences College of Veterinary Medicine
🎙️ Hosts: Your favorite Poultry Nerds
Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more feathered facts!
#BirdFlu #AvianInfluenza #BackyardChickens #ChickenHealth #Biosecurity #PoultryVeterinarian #FlockManagement #H5N1 #PoultryPodcast #ChickenKeepers #HomesteadChickens #PoultryNerds #VeterinaryMedicine #PoultryCare
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:00):
All right.
Poultry nerds.
We're here with the episode youguys have been waiting for.
We have a special guest today.
A poultry veterinarian, Dr.
Theresa Morishita.
Welcome, Dr.
Morishita.
How are you?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (00:15):
Welcome and thanks for inviting me to
your podcast.
Jennifer (00:19):
You are very welcome.
We're excited to have you.
I answer all these questions.
People made a list, so we'regonna get to that shortly.
Okay.
So tell us about yourself.
I
Carey (00:27):
get really excited about these podcasts because I really
like to nerd out when we havepeople that know all the facts.
So I'm super excited.
Jennifer (00:40):
Okay, so tell us about yourself.
Where are you?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (00:43):
I I am located, I'm a professor of
poultry medicine and foodsafety, and I'm located in
Pomona, California.
I work at the College ofVeterinary Medicine of Western
University of Health Sciences.
Jennifer (00:59):
Nice.
Are you originally fromCalifornia?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (01:05):
No, I'm originally from Hawaii and of
course I went to myundergraduate education in
Hawaii, but Hawaii doesn't havea vet school, so I went to
California and attended vetschool at the University of
California at Davis.
Jennifer (01:21):
Nice.
And you've been at the WesternUniversity for a long time?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (01:26):
I've been there.
State University.
Okay, say that again'cause itcut out.
So how long have you been at theWestern University?
I've been at Western Universitysince 2006.
And prior to that I was at theOhio State University.
Jennifer (01:45):
We've asked you to come on today to answer all the
questions about the bird flu.
Okay.
I'll do my best.
Now we're talking about thebackyard people, not like
commercial stuff.
But I know they crossed pathsjust a little bit.
Yes.
So explain exactly what it is.
Can you do that?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (02:06):
It's a big thing right now, avian
influenza.
It's hitting a, as you can see,a lot of the commercial, but I
know also for the backyardflocks.
So basically avian influenza iscaused by a type of disease
agent called a virus, and it'scalled the Avian Influenza
(02:28):
Virus.
Some of you may have heard likethe name H five N one.
So that just tells you thespecific type of virus that's
involved in this disease.
Okay.
Can I interrupt you for onesecond?
Sure.
So explain to me what the H, thefive, the n, and the one all
(02:50):
stands for.
Okay.
The virus.
Let's think of it as a, anorange.
Jennifer (02:57):
Okay.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (02:58):
And on the surface of these orange are
all these different types ofprotein.
So the h.
Stands for a type of proteincalled hemagglutinin.
And so let's just say it'srepresented by, have you ever
heard of those poder balls?
Like orange, and sometimesduring Christmas, people stick
(03:22):
cloves all over it.
To have that kind of.
Scent in the house for Christmastime, right?
So just think of this clove asone little protein spike.
So you stick it in the orangeand they're all over the orange
surface.
So that's a hemagglutininprotein.
And then the other proteinthat's important in classifying
(03:43):
the influenza virus is like a,let's say a nail could be a
flathead nail or something,right?
And those represent.
Another type of protein callednease, and those are all on the
surface of the orange.
Now that there are differenttypes of patterns.
(04:06):
There's 16 different types ofthis clove type inserts on the
orange, and then there are ninedifferent possible types.
So the type that we see that is.
Happening throughout the UnitedStates is the type five of the
(04:27):
Hemagglutinin protein, and theother one is the Neuraminidase.
So that's type one.
Okay.
So that's H five N one.
That's how you name theinfluenza virus.
And that's important because wehave a lot of researchers there
that are especially.
(04:48):
The United States Department ofAgriculture, they're looking at
the different types and howthey're spread.
And you'll, you notice thatthere's another one in
Mississippi that was found,right?
I didn't notice, but I believeyou, the H seven and nine,
right?
Yeah,
Carey (05:03):
they found the H seven there.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (05:05):
Oh, wow.
Yeah, so that's the the numberseven of the hemagglutinin.
See, so the common one waseight.
The one that we see is H five.
So remember I told you there's16 different types, so that's
the H seven on that one.
And these viruses, they canreassort different ones.
And we find that some of thosepatterns, like the H five N one,
(05:29):
we call that highly pathogenic,that means it causes a lot of
disease when it happens inpoultry.
So that's what we're worriedabout, you'll also hear the term
low pathogenic, and thoseviruses actually can be carried.
The different assortments, notthe H five N one variety, but
maybe some other numbers.
(05:51):
And they can be carried in likewaterfowl and they don't even
show any signs at all.
The birds are healthy.
We call that low pathogenic, butbecause the viruses always
mutate, then, we have to watchout that those low pathogenic
ones do not become highpathogenic.
So in the past, if you find aflock that.
(06:15):
Is a low pathogenic or any avianinfluenza, they normally will
remove it to try and protect therest of the flocks in the
nation.
Jennifer (06:27):
So if my doing some quick math on the top of my
head, if the H has 16 varietypatterns and the N has nine,
then that's roughly 150.
Options.
Does that sound right?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (06:43):
Yeah.
So a virus can be H one and thenit can be N one and two, and
three, and four, and five, andsix, and seven, eight, and nine.
Jennifer (06:54):
And then you
Dr. Theresa Morishita (06:54):
go to H two and that can have the same
thing.
If you've got the calculator.
Yes.
Jennifer (06:59):
Yeah.
So that's roughly 150 or so.
And so is it still mutating?
Could it be two oh differentoptions next year?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:09):
No, so far we find that there are 16 H
type and nine N type.
Jennifer (07:17):
Gotcha.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:18):
So we have that combination,
Jennifer (07:20):
okay.
Alright.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:21):
And those protein, why are we looking at
the protein?
'cause those proteins help thevirus.
Once it gets into the body, itcan get to the body.
These helps.
Its that's why those areimportant surface proteins on
that
Jennifer (07:36):
virus.
Gotcha.
Okay.
So let's talk about how itspreads then.
So it's being spread throughwild birds.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:46):
Yes.
The original H five N one, weknow that waterfowl were the
initial carriers, but not onlytraditionally the waterfowl are,
and they can carry pathogenicones and they can carry
non-pathogenic.
They're just a source of theinfluenza and that's their
(08:08):
normal host.
But when they have the.
Very virulent one.
That's when it can have die-offsin the waterfall flock, and it
can spread to other birdspecies.
And as we see them in othermammals as well too.
But I want to also.
Know that we think waterfallsare bad, but initially when we
(08:31):
had the H five N one they alsofound that other shorebirds
could also be important in thetransmission, especially near
the Great Lakes they had likeseagulls and that were found to
be positive.
If you're doing any type ofactivity and you see these
birds, so one of things like aspart of the education and
(08:55):
preventing that, if you likehunting ducks, that's good.
If you want, you like thatactivity.
If you like boating or you likebirdwatching.
You're gonna go into theseareas.
So you have to be very cautiousthat if you wear clothes or your
boots or shoes in that area, youdon't wanna use that same shoes
(09:18):
in your poultry, right?
Because that's gonna bringpotential disease agents like
this NT influenza to yourflocks.
So we have to watch the types ofactivities that we don't.
Inadvertently bring disease in.
So think about where the sourcesare.
And I remember being in certainareas, there's a lot of Canada
(09:42):
geese that stay in that area andmaybe water fowl that are in
ponds.
And maybe you go in a familypicnic or something and you're
running around and you can'thelp but step and do and
waterfowl poop, right?
Jennifer (09:57):
'cause
Dr. Theresa Morishita (09:57):
sometimes they're all over.
And so you wanna make sure thatyou're cautious about bringing
that dirty shoe or that hasstepped in waterfowl poop or
seabird poop into your flocks.
Okay?
So that's one of the things wethink about for biosecurity.
Jennifer (10:21):
What about when they just fly over like we have, I
have land and we have a hugeflock of Canadian geese that
live on the property behind us.
So they're always flying over.
Dr. Theresa Morita (10:32):
Yes.
That's a, that's another way.
When we think about how can, howdoes our farm get these germs
in?
So one of it is that we go outand we bring it back, right?
And we always know that shoesand clothing can be one source.
The other one is you're talkingabout the environment.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (10:50):
So look at your environment.
What is coming over, what iscontaminating your farm?
So not a lot would be like.
You have exposure because youhave birds, right?
They're a, like a nearby pond ornatural body of water that they
congregate as they migrate northand as they migrate south.
Okay, so there's big four majorPacific, or sorry, four major
(11:15):
flyways where the waterfalls goback and forth in the United
States, Atlanta, Mississippi,central Pacific, and so farms
like yours in that area thatmight have a lot of birds
migrating.
Yes.
Jennifer (11:31):
So we live in their world and we just have to deal
with it.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (11:34):
Yeah.
Now we do, as working with birddiseases, we always can, we
always know that.
And there are other diseasesthat if we have poultry or even.
Flocks of ducks or geese that wehave.
We wanna make sure that thediseases that our pets or our
flocks don't give it to thewildlife.
(11:54):
Because as you can see, once yougive it to the wildlife, they
spread it all over and youcan't, there's.
Tons of'em, right?
Flying over for the migration.
So now we have the H five N oneestablished.
So for us, being on the ground,watching them fly over, you have
to watch out, of potential.
Jennifer (12:16):
So how much poop does it take to contaminate a space
and how long does it live on theground?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (12:24):
When they fly.
So let's just talk about how itspreads in the waterfowl.
So if you've got one infectedduck and they're, of course
they're pooping around and theother,'cause sometimes they come
in flocks of 300,000 orsomething.
So one might be infected and somaybe a little neighbor comes
(12:44):
next to them and then they mightinteract or they might be
picking.
Food or whatever, and they getinfected, so then it spreads
that way, and so now you have toinfect it, spreading it to the
population, so how do you getthat?
So let's just say you had oneinfected duck and he sheds over
(13:05):
your property.
Maybe your chickens are not inthe area, so lucky for you,
right?
But if your chickens are, orducks are out there, pecking
around, or they're in the sameor near the vicinity of that
duck pond or whatever, thenthere's potential.
Spread.
So it's, we always call diseaseslike it's a numbers game.
(13:28):
The more exposure birds have orexposure more likely you will
get that.
Jennifer (13:34):
Now I have ducks that free range my property as the
geese are flying over.
And the
Dr. Theresa Morishita (13:40):
other geese are extract, attract it.
Oh, there's ducks down there,and they go down,
Jennifer (13:45):
yep.
Because they do, you can't
Dr. Theresa Morishita (13:46):
help them when they're migrating.
They're coming up longdistances.
They're gonna look for ponds.
Oh.
A place to rest.
A place to eat.
Until I go further up on myjourney.
So that's why they say if youhave natural ponds and stuff,
it's hard.
So we know like for some zoosthat have a lot of these natural
(14:07):
birds some people have evenunfortunately they've closed the
ponds, but that's.
That's hard for migrating birds.
So they've closed the ponds orthey've have trained dogs that
chase the Canada geese away, orthe waterfowl away.
Jennifer (14:27):
That's what I have
Dr. Theresa Morishita (14:28):
other, yeah.
Others have tactics to make it anon pleasant things.
So some of the things that, howcan we work with nature when
they migrate and yet protect.
Our flocks and some people haveput like things way far away so
the birds go at a furtherdistance and don't come near
(14:50):
like a commercial or backyardflocks, but it's harder for
backyard owners because they'reeverywhere.
But I know like for commercial,we don't wanna have like
artificial ponds or whateverthat may attract the wildlife.
Interesting.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Okay, so let's talk aboutsymptoms now.
(15:13):
Some people concerned aboutearly warning signs.
Now I'm known from being bluntin when people meet me and
stuff.
And so somebody asks me, what'san early warning sign?
And I typically just say they'redead.
Jennifer (15:26):
Is that a pretty accurate sign that you have it?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (15:29):
If you have the highly patented,
pathogenic avian influenza, theyare, they will be dead.
That's one of the first thingsyou know, so you're true.
In finding that, so everybodyknows their flock, and so you're
gonna know when the birds areoff.
So one of the first signs thatbirds are not feeling well is
that they're gonna stop eating,drinking, stop laying eggs,
(15:52):
right?
So if you notice a differencelike that, you could say, Ooh,
something's wrong.
This doesn't mean you have avianinfluenza, but you could say,
oh, some kind of illness.
'cause birds, they're gonna benot eating, not drinking.
Not laying eggs if you've gotlayers, and then they might be
huddled up, they're feathers.
(16:13):
If you've got chickens, they'refluffed up.
They hunched down.
You have that sick chicken pose,right?
Some, something is, or they'regonna be down on the ground
lethargic, so you knowsomething's wrong.
You got some kind of diseasegoing on.
We do know that for the avianinfluenza, it's usually when
it's a highly pathogenic one,you will see death loss.
(16:37):
So they'll be dead and you'llsay, what happened?
My flock was fine, and thenthey're all dead, so if you have
something like that, then I knowthat every state in the United
States has a diagnostic lab.
So you gotta go where your statediagnostic lab is.
And I believe that most countieshave like an extension agent,
(16:59):
right?
And you contact your localagent, you can contact your
local veterinarian, they canhelp you to report that as well
too.
But we do want to catch,potential outbreaks right away.
So what will happen is that wecan suspect.
Even influenza and then they'llhave people that come out and
(17:20):
test it to see if it is or not,
Jennifer (17:24):
okay.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (17:24):
So you probably don't wanna go in there
and say, oh, I wanna see it nowyou open the birds up.
Probably not when you see a lotof dead, and you wanna have
somebody trained to do that.
Jennifer (17:36):
So will the state come in and eradicate your whole
flock if they find that you haveit?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (17:42):
Currently that was the procedure.
Because these are all we have tocall our state and the federal
veterinarian to be involved andthey work on it now.
It's hard.
Yes, they have to get rid ofthat because the principle of
that is that if they get rid ofsources, then it won't go to
(18:05):
your neighbor's farm.
And spread.
We're seeing more and more.
That's why in the early part ofthe H five and even now, you'll
see a lot of depopulation,especially in the larger farms,
because they're trying tocontrol that spread from to
other farms or to backyard.
(18:25):
Poultry flocks, and that's ahard thing for the backyard,
poultry, because you bond withyour birds too.
And some of you have grown yourbirds, especially the
exhibition, poultry, certaingenetic things that you have,
right?
Jennifer (18:40):
Oh yeah.
Does it pass vertically throughthe egg?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (18:45):
No, this is more it can, but this is more
respiratory.
Okay.
And I didn't finish with thesigns, but the main ones with,
Jennifer (18:55):
the main one's dead right?
Respiratory,
Dr. Theresa Morishita (18:58):
well dead.
But if they, you see them alive,they're gonna have severe
respiratory, so hard timebreathing.
Breathing with the open mouth,right?
And then it also passes throughthe intestines, so the feces.
And in the more severe forms youcan see them bloody diarrhea.
Okay.
Jennifer (19:18):
So that mimics a lot of other diseases though, those
symptoms.
Yeah.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (19:24):
Yeah.
Jennifer (19:25):
Yeah.
So what if you had, and I'm justgonna, and coughing
Dr. Theresa Morishita (19:28):
out blood.
Oh.
And then the third one isneurologic signs.
So the head will be twisting,like we call that like a
stargazing, like their head istwisted up.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So the avian influenza has threeclinical.
Forms the neurologic with yourhead twisting up, they have the
(19:50):
digestive issues and then theyhave respiratory.
They can have one or all three.
So you see that kind of me thingin your flock, more likely you
have avian influenza.
So that's why Can youdistinguish it right away from
others?
I always say that.
Virulent Newcastle can also belike that.
(20:11):
And that's also a concern.
At least here in California, andit's, to me, it's just as
important.
It's a exotic disease cominginto the United States, and
those are very similar.
The only way you need, you gottatake it to the lab.
So you brought the questionabout.
(20:32):
It's very similar to otherdiseases.
So you should know your farm.
What kind of diseases do youhave?
And if you see anything unusual,so bloody diarrhea, oh God,
could be coccidia, right?
So take a look at the birds.
If there's a lot, if you seeneurological sign now, co city
(20:54):
is not gonna have respiratorydifficulties.
You're not gonna see them likeopen mouth breathing or
something, puffy heads.
So that's how we would look atthe birds and you can tell that,
but that's where it's importantto at least work with a local
(21:14):
veterinarian or someone.
Some states are really helpfulfor the backyard.
Flock.
So get to know your state andwhat they can do for, the
individual flock owners.
Because some states they haveprograms where backyard flock
owners can send birds orwhatever, or but for whether
(21:37):
it's Cox City or not, your localveterinarian can do a fecal exam
or, but you know best becauseyou work with your birds every
day.
Jennifer (21:47):
Observation.
Yeah.
We preach that
Dr. Theresa Morishita (21:49):
a lot.
Observation.
Carey (21:52):
Knowing
Dr. Theresa Morishita (21:52):
and knowing what's normal.
Jennifer (21:54):
Yes.
Carey (21:54):
Yeah.
Now, one question I have
Dr. Theresa Morishita (21:58):
Yeah.
Carey (21:59):
Is there anything you can do from a nutritional standpoint
to build up a strong immunesystem in your bird?
I.
To try to prevent that orprevent them from getting any
kind of diseases.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (22:14):
I know that some researchers are
looking at what do you callthat?
More immune strain or lesssusceptible to certain diseases.
But that's not in the generalpopulation.
And most backyard flux have youlike a certain breed or you like
your certain genetic exhibitionpoultry that you have, yeah.
(22:38):
That type of, is a lot ofresearch and a lot of money
going into that researchdevelop.
Potential strains, but that'shappening more like in the
commercial,
Jennifer (22:49):
that makes sense.
Money talks.
That's
Carey (22:52):
right.
Jennifer (22:54):
Alright.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (22:54):
But they, but the only, yeah, the only
thing for backyard flock is if,certain breeds are more
resistant or whatever, throughyour own observation.
Gotcha.
Jennifer (23:07):
All right, so let's talk about what some, what you
can do to protect your backyardflocks.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (23:14):
So what you could do to protect your
backyard flock.
The number one is biosecurity.
So bio stands for life andsecurity implies some sort of
protection.
So basically, like we talkedabout how to prevent germs from
getting germs of the virus fromgetting into your flock and vice
(23:35):
versa, how to stop your, if youhave a disease from it spreading
to your neighbors, right?
Jennifer (23:43):
cause we
Dr. Theresa Morishita (23:44):
all want to be responsible flock owners.
And so we talked about beingconscious of what we do and what
kind of activities we do, and.
We wanna make sure that whateverclothes we wear and shoes are
(24:05):
clean when we're dealing withour animals, right?
So that's number one.
And you may have seen picturesin the commercial industry.
We wear Tyvek suits whenever wego to a farm, boots and stuff.
Now you don't have to go to thatdegree, but you can have a
dedicated clothes that you usefor your flocks and not for
(24:27):
working with other birds, andthe other one too is knowing the
source of your birds that arecoming in.
A lot of the people that youshould know what is my
background diseases that I havein my flock, so I know what
potential some of them have youheard of the disease mycoplasma?
(24:48):
So there's a lot of.
While there's less in commercialindustry in the backyard flock,
there's not as much regulationsin part of the National Poultry
improvement plan.
So some of, most of the birdsare mycoplasma positive.
So if you've got mycoplasmapositive free, positive birds,
(25:08):
it's your birds, so you're gonnakeep them.
But you have to realize that Imight have to be more.
Careful of how I house my birdsat night, that I wanna make sure
that there's enough ventilationthat especially in the
wintertime, there's not ammoniabuildup that can cause or the
(25:29):
mycoplasma can or exacerbatethat and they will get like more
prone to respiratory diseases.
So just knowing what diseasesyou have and so what potentially
makes you a risk factor.
Okay.
So knowing your birds, getting,trying to get the best source
that you can feeding them goodquality food because we do know
(25:53):
and probably carry no excessivenutritionist if you don't give
good food quality their immunesystem, they can't fully develop
their immune system as well,right?
And, clean water.
Always clean water because, ifyou don't keep your water at
shoulder level for birds theyhave a tendency they can poop in
it and whatever that bird has,whatever disease can spread
(26:17):
through the flock.
So you wanna make sure that yourwater is lifted, at least
shoulder high for the chickensso that they can drink.
Without pooping in thatcontainer.
And then you try to clean thatcontainer if you can, daily.
That's always good hygiene.
So you're keeping your birdswell.
And the other thing, like yousaid, is being aware, am I under
(26:40):
a fly zone or not?
Do I have, do I invite otherbirds in?
Because some of us that likebirds also like to feed the
songbirds.
Bird feeders in.
So again, that's bringingpotential.
You don't know the health statusof the birds.
(27:01):
You're bringing them into yourflock.
And of course, chicken sea.
Ooh, bird feed that fell on theground.
I'm gonna go under there andpeck it.
Unfortunately, those songbirdalso poop there, and then
they'll be exposed.
So if we're serious about ourchickens and keeping them clean,
we probably don't wanna havebird feeders where the chickens
have access to.
(27:21):
And so another.
Another thing too is thefeeding.
Where are you feeding yourbirds?
So if I've got pasture raisedbirds and I'm just putting the
food out there, other wild birdssay, Ooh, free food source, I'm
gonna, and free water.
I'm gonna go over there and eat.
Again, that's just like yourbird feeder, right?
So we have to be conscious wherewe're gonna feed them.
(27:42):
So during these high risk times,it's probably good to feed them
early in the morning in anenclosed area.
I.
Make sure that songbirds, yougotta look at the fencing
diameter that doesn't allowsongbirds through.
Let them eat the food and thenyou can let them out on the
grounds, right?
So those are all things, we justhave to think what wild things
(28:06):
come and get exposed to ouranimals.
Jennifer (28:09):
Can mice and rats track it in?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:13):
We don't.
Have that information yet, butif you look at all the animals
that are in infected potential,
Jennifer (28:26):
it makes sense.
Yeah, it makes sense.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:28):
It makes sense.
Jennifer (28:29):
They walk through the manure, then step on the feed.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:32):
And we know that.
Rats and rodents can perpetuatelike a salmonella enters on a
farm.
So rodent control for allpoultry.
They're out there.
So having a rodent control isreally important,
Jennifer (28:45):
it is.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:47):
So those are all part of the biosecurity
picking up the dead right away.
Now if you have your like deadand that's a lot of dead, like
multiple of your flocks, thenyou have to watch out.
And that's why I would call, ifyou have so many dead a flock,
you might have one or two dead.
And backyard flocks are smaller,so you're not gonna have that
(29:10):
much like mortality, right?
Unless you're a poor keeper ofpoultry.
Yeah.
You don't see too much mortalityof your flock are healthy.
Because chickens, we're talkingabout chickens here, but also
they're pretty strong.
They can live up to 25 years incaptivity.
Jennifer (29:31):
Really?
25?
Yes.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (29:34):
Yes.
Jennifer (29:34):
I have two that are 12.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (29:37):
Oh, see, you're taking good care.
Jennifer (29:41):
I took good care'cause I just threw'em out.
They're on their own and theystill ticking'em along.
Yeah.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (29:47):
geese are like 40.
Oh wow.
So if they're for the chickensthey can live long, but most of
them, those get those old hands.
Are those reproductive problems,
Jennifer (29:59):
all right.
I have a question.
Can humans get the bird flu?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (30:03):
Yes, we can.
Can we give it back to thebirds?
There's always that potentialthat you can do.
You see the wide host range ofbirds, and we notice that from
the outbreaks that occurred,let's say waterfowl.
And it's like they died fromthis too.
And so they die along the lake.
And who's eating it?
(30:23):
The bald eagle.
And he gets affected byinfluenza, the foxes, whatever.
You have the car carnivorousanimals out there, they get
infected, right?
Jennifer (30:34):
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (30:34):
we've also seen on the East coast and
in South America.
Sea lions get.
Now how are they gonna get that?
Because infected seagulls, likethe birds might die and then
they die in the water andsomebody says, Ooh, easy food.
And then just eat it, right?
Jennifer (30:51):
And so
Dr. Theresa Morishita (30:51):
we see a whole variety.
So dogs, cats, all haveinfluenza.
Now we've seen, like in certainparts of the United States, like
in California, there's also beencanine influenza.
And so do.
It's this mixture.
And we do know that the bigpandemic, the worldwide pandemic
that had was like swine mixedwith other animals.
(31:13):
And then when you have thismutation of the different things
and it goes into the human, andonce it gets easily transferred
to the humans, that's how youcan spread.
'cause once it's spread fromhuman to human easily, then.
Then we'll get some kind ofpandemic.
So that's also a reason why inthe early days they try to
(31:35):
eliminate all these potentialflocks, right?
'cause we don't want to have anyworldwide pandemics, and that
hard thing too, if that's yourpet you have to you.
But that was done to helpprotect, the.
Health of your neighbor'sanimals as well as potential
(31:56):
spread because that influenzavirus, has a lot of animals can
be infected, different strains,but those strains can come
together and mutate'cause'causewhen two different strains they
can mutate and transfer thoselittle surface proteins.
Jennifer (32:15):
And then we got a hot mint.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (32:17):
Yeah.
So we wanna prevent that.
We don't need no other pandemicagain, right?
Jennifer (32:21):
Gosh, no.
Nope.
All right, let's move to the qand a side.
So I had put it out on Facebook,and we got several really good
questions back.
So Bantam fave asks if a vaccinecan be developed.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (32:41):
There are vaccines that are used in Europe
and Mexico has been usingvaccines too.
And the thought was that isshould we use vaccines or not?
And that's up to the USDepartment of Agriculture,
whether they approve it or not.
So I believe they're looking atthat right now.
Jennifer (33:03):
Okay.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (33:03):
And seeing what.
We can do one of the things thatif we do use the vaccine, one of
the hesitancies of using itbefore was trade because some
countries don't want vaccinatedor
Jennifer (33:21):
products.
Gotcha.
Makes sense.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (33:23):
that would hit hurt the US
agriculture.
Jennifer (33:25):
Yes.
Okay.
Deb is asking about euthanizingthe whole flock instead of
allowing the survivors to createa stronger flock, can we breed
for resistance?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (33:39):
That's one way to do for the survivor,
but as some of the tactics thatare used is that they they will
euthanize whole flock currently.
Whether that changes in thefuture.
We don't know, and one of thethings also that they euthanize
a flock is that, can weguarantee each individual that
(34:01):
has influenza can keep theirbirds safe and not expose or not
spread that disease, right?
Jennifer (34:10):
That's a true statement.
All right.
Amy asks, why are shows beingcanceled when they don't seem to
be a source of issues?
Dr. Theresa Morita (34:23):
I believe that the shows are being
canceled as a precautionary.
Because your bird may lookgreat, but maybe.
He got exposed early on.
He's not showing signs, but he'sshedding and the shows that I'm
familiar with, we have.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (34:42):
Wire cage next to wire cage.
Next to wire cage.
So if one bird's infected, it'seasily spread.
And actually a more commondisease that a spread through
exhibition is infectious laryntracheitis.
And that's why if you ever takeyour birds off from your farm,
you wanna make sure thatthey're.
(35:04):
At least quarantine for three tofour weeks in a separate area
from your main flock, becausediseases show about two weeks.
We call that the incubationperiod.
So the best is to keep themisolated.
You work with them last so thatyour main flock doesn't get
infected,
Jennifer (35:24):
all right.
I had two other questions, but Ithink we already answered those.
So Michael wants to know howthat you can develop a flock
health program for yourself.
Would that just be thebiosecurity?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (35:39):
No.
I would say for all flocks isthat.
You work with someone local andyou try to know what diseases do
I have?
And you go just like how we goto the doctors and we might take
a whole physical exam.
You wanna know what's in yourflock.
When you know what's in yourflock, you know what you can
(36:01):
vaccinate for.
You know what you might haveworms, you might have coccidia.
You know what that is?
So we always say, wheneveryou're getting new birds, keep
'em in quarantine and run'em forall these diseases.
Because what I will say, let'ssay worms or mites and lice,
(36:22):
it's a big headache once you getthat into your farm to have to
treat them all the time because,the roundworm egg can live in
the soil a very long time.
Jennifer (36:31):
Yeah.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (36:32):
so easily, once you get it you're
gonna have to treat, your futureflocks that way, and treating is
money, right?
So the better is to know whatyou're coming in have,
unfortunately, you have to spendthat work with somebody to get
what the, if there are positivefor worms or not.
(36:53):
And if there are no worms orwhatever, then you can have them
with the rest of your flop,right?
So you gotta know, you have toknow, which is for, you said
Michael, right?
Jennifer (37:04):
I was
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:04):
asking that question.
So knowing what you have in yourflock is most important, knowing
that you don't bring it in.
So there is testing periodic,that you wanna do
Jennifer (37:14):
okay.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:14):
I think there's no greater time than
like some of the labs,especially those states that
have big poultry.
Industries there, they helpsubsidize some of the backyard
flocks so that they can run, sothat they will know what's in
their state too.
So the costs might be much less,
Jennifer (37:35):
oh, that's good information.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:36):
Yeah.
Jennifer (37:38):
All right.
Craig is asking, how is itgetting into the commercial
flocks with all of theirbiosecurity?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:45):
Probably the same way that our farms, if
they're on a migratory flyway,you know?
We, they have very goodbiosecurity, biosecurity is only
too strong as the workers orhelp that you get on that farm.
And then we have to becognizant, like we mentioned
before, are there activitiesthat I do that might not be
(38:09):
good?
Jennifer (38:09):
You are only as strong as your weakest link, right?
Carey (38:11):
That's right.
Jennifer (38:14):
All right.
Kristen wants to know if it canjump to other animals like goats
or rabbits, and you said yes,right?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (38:21):
Yeah.
I don't know about rabbits yet,but because maybe they don't get
exposed, they don't eat birds orlike carcasses.
Jennifer (38:30):
Ah, gotcha.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (38:31):
Like we were talking about rodents.
Rodents might probably eat somedead bird.
Jennifer (38:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I happen to know Kristen and soshe probably keeps her rabbits
up on wire and hutches'cause sheshows.
So there's a lot of crossoverbetween showing chickens and
showing rabbits.
So just good hand washing andkeeping clean stuff is probably
the best thing you can do.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (38:53):
Yep.
Yeah.
Their food source is, is notlike some infected bird.
And we don't have birds likethey say a lot of the, like on a
pond, when the birds take off,they fly and they flutter their
wings, right?
And that aerosolizes a lot ofthe water.
(39:14):
That's very similar.
So you got a lot of water.
So that's how all the birds canbe infected.
And if you think about like in adairy operation, all the cows
come into milk, there's a lot ofwater.
'cause somebody's gotta washthat utter down, right?
Jennifer (39:29):
And
Dr. Theresa Morita (39:29):
there's a lot of wet aerosolization in
there too.
So that's probably why.
When the outbreak in dairycattle, you can see a lot of the
workers.
In there because they're exposedto that,
Jennifer (39:42):
all right.
Homestead matters is asking whatis the reasonable threat of it
happening in a backyard flock?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (39:50):
Oh, can I finish out about that different,
oh yeah.
That different animal.
So mentioned, somebody saidgoats, but I believe that there
was a most recent report inEngland that they also found
that now in sheep, it was inEurope.
Yeah.
So
Jennifer (40:07):
possible.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (40:08):
Possible.
Yeah.
'cause they're eating the grassthat maybe birds had pooped on.
Jennifer (40:13):
Makes sense.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (40:15):
I'm sorry, what was the next
question?
Jennifer (40:17):
What is the reasonable threat of it happening in a
backyard flock?
Is there a percentage?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (40:24):
I don't know.
I could actually see apercentage because it depends on
your risk factor for eachindividual farm, if I had some
birds in my backyard.
Then I probably have a low risk,'cause I'm in like an urban
setting.
We have no Flyway here,
Jennifer (40:40):
so if you lived along the, say the Mississippi River,
your threat would be higher thanif you lived in the desert,
probably.
Makes sense.
Carey (40:51):
Yeah, makes perfect sense.
Jennifer (40:54):
I think, there was one more, but I think we already
answered it.
It was about a vaccine, I thinkthat was all of our questions,
and I'm gonna have to saysomething.
I'm gonna put it out here forthe public record.
I was of the opinion that youbreed for resistance, but you
have explained it in such a waythat it makes sense.
The depopulating, I'm gonna haveto say that
Dr. Theresa Morishita (41:16):
it's a sad thing, and we have to get.
It's our flock that is affected.
But if you think for the greatergood, and that's why they always
say if you've got some uniquegenetic stock, you never wanna
keep them.
Only in your farm.
You might know a neighbor andyou say, oh, here's my breed.
Can you help me maintain thisflock?
So let's say you live inTennessee and I live in
(41:41):
California or something.
You might, when you have yourbreed stock.
That you like.
That's why they keep it inanother place, a far location,
Jennifer (41:50):
and
Dr. Theresa Morishita (41:50):
not on the same site if you've got
this.
So I know some people that wereexhibition and they have 20
years they've been working withthis breed that they've been gen
the color pattern or whatever,so they.
That's the safest thing.
They always, we, we do that inthe commercial breeder flocks.
If there's certain breedersthey're located different spots.
(42:12):
You don't keep'em all in onespot.
'cause if you got a disease thatkills it right there.
But now that we have eveninfluenza, you gotta be very
careful because you can't be.
Transferring things state lineif you've got nearby, right?
Yeah.
'cause maybe they're resist,something.
So they should go through aquarantine period before they,
(42:34):
and each state has a quarantinemaybe that could be worked with,
when you're transferring birds.
But just to save all the,'causea lot of the backyard and
exhibition people, they havesaved their birds for a long
time.
So that's why biosecurity ismost important.
Watching all the sources,'causeyou wanna save your bird.
(42:57):
You have some people their aretheir pets, so that's their
individual human animal bond.
So of course you don't wanna putthat bird down.
So that's why it's trulyimportant that you do what
biosecurity to protect them,right?
Yeah.
And stop their exposure.
Jennifer (43:18):
Yep.
I want to say thank you forcoming on the podcast today.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this.
Yes,
Carey (43:25):
thank you.
Me too.
This is awesome.
Thank you.
I've learned a lot.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (43:28):
Yes.
And you guys are doing a greatjob because we have to get this
word out.
And to educate everyone aboutthese issues, to help prevent
that,
Jennifer (43:39):
all right.
Good
Dr. Theresa Morishita (43:39):
job.
Jennifer (43:40):
Thanks.
We hope to talk to you again inthe future.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (43:43):
Okay.
Be happy to.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thanks.
Bye.
All right.
Poultry nerds.
We're here with the episode youguys have been waiting for.
We have a special guest today.
A poultry veterinarian, Dr.
Theresa Morishita.
Welcome, Dr.
Morishita.
How are you?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (00:15):
Welcome and thanks for inviting me to
your podcast.
Jennifer (00:19):
You are very welcome.
We're excited to have you.
I answer all these questions.
People made a list, so we'regonna get to that shortly.
Okay.
So tell us about yourself.
I
Carey (00:27):
get really excited about these podcasts because I really
like to nerd out when we havepeople that know all the facts.
So I'm super excited.
Jennifer (00:40):
Okay, so tell us about yourself.
Where are you?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (00:43):
I I am located, I'm a professor of
poultry medicine and foodsafety, and I'm located in
Pomona, California.
I work at the College ofVeterinary Medicine of Western
University of Health Sciences.
Jennifer (00:59):
Nice.
Are you originally fromCalifornia?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (01:05):
No, I'm originally from Hawaii and of
course I went to myundergraduate education in
Hawaii, but Hawaii doesn't havea vet school, so I went to
California and attended vetschool at the University of
California at Davis.
Jennifer (01:21):
Nice.
And you've been at the WesternUniversity for a long time?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (01:26):
I've been there.
State University.
Okay, say that again'cause itcut out.
So how long have you been at theWestern University?
I've been at Western Universitysince 2006.
And prior to that I was at theOhio State University.
Jennifer (01:45):
We've asked you to come on today to answer all the
questions about the bird flu.
Okay.
I'll do my best.
Now we're talking about thebackyard people, not like
commercial stuff.
But I know they crossed pathsjust a little bit.
Yes.
So explain exactly what it is.
Can you do that?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (02:06):
It's a big thing right now, avian
influenza.
It's hitting a, as you can see,a lot of the commercial, but I
know also for the backyardflocks.
So basically avian influenza iscaused by a type of disease
agent called a virus, and it'scalled the Avian Influenza
(02:28):
Virus.
Some of you may have heard likethe name H five N one.
So that just tells you thespecific type of virus that's
involved in this disease.
Okay.
Can I interrupt you for onesecond?
Sure.
So explain to me what the H, thefive, the n, and the one all
(02:50):
stands for.
Okay.
The virus.
Let's think of it as a, anorange.
Jennifer (02:57):
Okay.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (02:58):
And on the surface of these orange are
all these different types ofprotein.
So the h.
Stands for a type of proteincalled hemagglutinin.
And so let's just say it'srepresented by, have you ever
heard of those poder balls?
Like orange, and sometimesduring Christmas, people stick
(03:22):
cloves all over it.
To have that kind of.
Scent in the house for Christmastime, right?
So just think of this clove asone little protein spike.
So you stick it in the orangeand they're all over the orange
surface.
So that's a hemagglutininprotein.
And then the other proteinthat's important in classifying
(03:43):
the influenza virus is like a,let's say a nail could be a
flathead nail or something,right?
And those represent.
Another type of protein callednease, and those are all on the
surface of the orange.
Now that there are differenttypes of patterns.
(04:06):
There's 16 different types ofthis clove type inserts on the
orange, and then there are ninedifferent possible types.
So the type that we see that is.
Happening throughout the UnitedStates is the type five of the
(04:27):
Hemagglutinin protein, and theother one is the Neuraminidase.
So that's type one.
Okay.
So that's H five N one.
That's how you name theinfluenza virus.
And that's important because wehave a lot of researchers there
that are especially.
(04:48):
The United States Department ofAgriculture, they're looking at
the different types and howthey're spread.
And you'll, you notice thatthere's another one in
Mississippi that was found,right?
I didn't notice, but I believeyou, the H seven and nine,
right?
Yeah,
Carey (05:03):
they found the H seven there.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (05:05):
Oh, wow.
Yeah, so that's the the numberseven of the hemagglutinin.
See, so the common one waseight.
The one that we see is H five.
So remember I told you there's16 different types, so that's
the H seven on that one.
And these viruses, they canreassort different ones.
And we find that some of thosepatterns, like the H five N one,
(05:29):
we call that highly pathogenic,that means it causes a lot of
disease when it happens inpoultry.
So that's what we're worriedabout, you'll also hear the term
low pathogenic, and thoseviruses actually can be carried.
The different assortments, notthe H five N one variety, but
maybe some other numbers.
(05:51):
And they can be carried in likewaterfowl and they don't even
show any signs at all.
The birds are healthy.
We call that low pathogenic, butbecause the viruses always
mutate, then, we have to watchout that those low pathogenic
ones do not become highpathogenic.
So in the past, if you find aflock that.
(06:15):
Is a low pathogenic or any avianinfluenza, they normally will
remove it to try and protect therest of the flocks in the
nation.
Jennifer (06:27):
So if my doing some quick math on the top of my
head, if the H has 16 varietypatterns and the N has nine,
then that's roughly 150.
Options.
Does that sound right?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (06:43):
Yeah.
So a virus can be H one and thenit can be N one and two, and
three, and four, and five, andsix, and seven, eight, and nine.
Jennifer (06:54):
And then you
Dr. Theresa Morishita (06:54):
go to H two and that can have the same
thing.
If you've got the calculator.
Yes.
Jennifer (06:59):
Yeah.
So that's roughly 150 or so.
And so is it still mutating?
Could it be two oh differentoptions next year?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:09):
No, so far we find that there are 16 H
type and nine N type.
Jennifer (07:17):
Gotcha.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:18):
So we have that combination,
Jennifer (07:20):
okay.
Alright.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:21):
And those protein, why are we looking at
the protein?
'cause those proteins help thevirus.
Once it gets into the body, itcan get to the body.
These helps.
Its that's why those areimportant surface proteins on
that
Jennifer (07:36):
virus.
Gotcha.
Okay.
So let's talk about how itspreads then.
So it's being spread throughwild birds.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (07:46):
Yes.
The original H five N one, weknow that waterfowl were the
initial carriers, but not onlytraditionally the waterfowl are,
and they can carry pathogenicones and they can carry
non-pathogenic.
They're just a source of theinfluenza and that's their
(08:08):
normal host.
But when they have the.
Very virulent one.
That's when it can have die-offsin the waterfall flock, and it
can spread to other birdspecies.
And as we see them in othermammals as well too.
But I want to also.
Know that we think waterfallsare bad, but initially when we
(08:31):
had the H five N one they alsofound that other shorebirds
could also be important in thetransmission, especially near
the Great Lakes they had likeseagulls and that were found to
be positive.
If you're doing any type ofactivity and you see these
birds, so one of things like aspart of the education and
(08:55):
preventing that, if you likehunting ducks, that's good.
If you want, you like thatactivity.
If you like boating or you likebirdwatching.
You're gonna go into theseareas.
So you have to be very cautiousthat if you wear clothes or your
boots or shoes in that area, youdon't wanna use that same shoes
(09:18):
in your poultry, right?
Because that's gonna bringpotential disease agents like
this NT influenza to yourflocks.
So we have to watch the types ofactivities that we don't.
Inadvertently bring disease in.
So think about where the sourcesare.
And I remember being in certainareas, there's a lot of Canada
(09:42):
geese that stay in that area andmaybe water fowl that are in
ponds.
And maybe you go in a familypicnic or something and you're
running around and you can'thelp but step and do and
waterfowl poop, right?
Jennifer (09:57):
'cause
Dr. Theresa Morishita (09:57):
sometimes they're all over.
And so you wanna make sure thatyou're cautious about bringing
that dirty shoe or that hasstepped in waterfowl poop or
seabird poop into your flocks.
Okay?
So that's one of the things wethink about for biosecurity.
Jennifer (10:21):
What about when they just fly over like we have, I
have land and we have a hugeflock of Canadian geese that
live on the property behind us.
So they're always flying over.
Dr. Theresa Morita (10:32):
Yes.
That's a, that's another way.
When we think about how can, howdoes our farm get these germs
in?
So one of it is that we go outand we bring it back, right?
And we always know that shoesand clothing can be one source.
The other one is you're talkingabout the environment.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (10:50):
So look at your environment.
What is coming over, what iscontaminating your farm?
So not a lot would be like.
You have exposure because youhave birds, right?
They're a, like a nearby pond ornatural body of water that they
congregate as they migrate northand as they migrate south.
Okay, so there's big four majorPacific, or sorry, four major
(11:15):
flyways where the waterfalls goback and forth in the United
States, Atlanta, Mississippi,central Pacific, and so farms
like yours in that area thatmight have a lot of birds
migrating.
Yes.
Jennifer (11:31):
So we live in their world and we just have to deal
with it.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (11:34):
Yeah.
Now we do, as working with birddiseases, we always can, we
always know that.
And there are other diseasesthat if we have poultry or even.
Flocks of ducks or geese that wehave.
We wanna make sure that thediseases that our pets or our
flocks don't give it to thewildlife.
(11:54):
Because as you can see, once yougive it to the wildlife, they
spread it all over and youcan't, there's.
Tons of'em, right?
Flying over for the migration.
So now we have the H five N oneestablished.
So for us, being on the ground,watching them fly over, you have
to watch out, of potential.
Jennifer (12:16):
So how much poop does it take to contaminate a space
and how long does it live on theground?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (12:24):
When they fly.
So let's just talk about how itspreads in the waterfowl.
So if you've got one infectedduck and they're, of course
they're pooping around and theother,'cause sometimes they come
in flocks of 300,000 orsomething.
So one might be infected and somaybe a little neighbor comes
(12:44):
next to them and then they mightinteract or they might be
picking.
Food or whatever, and they getinfected, so then it spreads
that way, and so now you have toinfect it, spreading it to the
population, so how do you getthat?
So let's just say you had oneinfected duck and he sheds over
(13:05):
your property.
Maybe your chickens are not inthe area, so lucky for you,
right?
But if your chickens are, orducks are out there, pecking
around, or they're in the sameor near the vicinity of that
duck pond or whatever, thenthere's potential.
Spread.
So it's, we always call diseaseslike it's a numbers game.
(13:28):
The more exposure birds have orexposure more likely you will
get that.
Jennifer (13:34):
Now I have ducks that free range my property as the
geese are flying over.
And the
Dr. Theresa Morishita (13:40):
other geese are extract, attract it.
Oh, there's ducks down there,and they go down,
Jennifer (13:45):
yep.
Because they do, you can't
Dr. Theresa Morishita (13:46):
help them when they're migrating.
They're coming up longdistances.
They're gonna look for ponds.
Oh.
A place to rest.
A place to eat.
Until I go further up on myjourney.
So that's why they say if youhave natural ponds and stuff,
it's hard.
So we know like for some zoosthat have a lot of these natural
(14:07):
birds some people have evenunfortunately they've closed the
ponds, but that's.
That's hard for migrating birds.
So they've closed the ponds orthey've have trained dogs that
chase the Canada geese away, orthe waterfowl away.
Jennifer (14:27):
That's what I have
Dr. Theresa Morishita (14:28):
other, yeah.
Others have tactics to make it anon pleasant things.
So some of the things that, howcan we work with nature when
they migrate and yet protect.
Our flocks and some people haveput like things way far away so
the birds go at a furtherdistance and don't come near
(14:50):
like a commercial or backyardflocks, but it's harder for
backyard owners because they'reeverywhere.
But I know like for commercial,we don't wanna have like
artificial ponds or whateverthat may attract the wildlife.
Interesting.
Yeah, that's interesting.
Okay, so let's talk aboutsymptoms now.
(15:13):
Some people concerned aboutearly warning signs.
Now I'm known from being bluntin when people meet me and
stuff.
And so somebody asks me, what'san early warning sign?
And I typically just say they'redead.
Jennifer (15:26):
Is that a pretty accurate sign that you have it?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (15:29):
If you have the highly patented,
pathogenic avian influenza, theyare, they will be dead.
That's one of the first thingsyou know, so you're true.
In finding that, so everybodyknows their flock, and so you're
gonna know when the birds areoff.
So one of the first signs thatbirds are not feeling well is
that they're gonna stop eating,drinking, stop laying eggs,
(15:52):
right?
So if you notice a differencelike that, you could say, Ooh,
something's wrong.
This doesn't mean you have avianinfluenza, but you could say,
oh, some kind of illness.
'cause birds, they're gonna benot eating, not drinking.
Not laying eggs if you've gotlayers, and then they might be
huddled up, they're feathers.
(16:13):
If you've got chickens, they'refluffed up.
They hunched down.
You have that sick chicken pose,right?
Some, something is, or they'regonna be down on the ground
lethargic, so you knowsomething's wrong.
You got some kind of diseasegoing on.
We do know that for the avianinfluenza, it's usually when
it's a highly pathogenic one,you will see death loss.
(16:37):
So they'll be dead and you'llsay, what happened?
My flock was fine, and thenthey're all dead, so if you have
something like that, then I knowthat every state in the United
States has a diagnostic lab.
So you gotta go where your statediagnostic lab is.
And I believe that most countieshave like an extension agent,
(16:59):
right?
And you contact your localagent, you can contact your
local veterinarian, they canhelp you to report that as well
too.
But we do want to catch,potential outbreaks right away.
So what will happen is that wecan suspect.
Even influenza and then they'llhave people that come out and
(17:20):
test it to see if it is or not,
Jennifer (17:24):
okay.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (17:24):
So you probably don't wanna go in there
and say, oh, I wanna see it nowyou open the birds up.
Probably not when you see a lotof dead, and you wanna have
somebody trained to do that.
Jennifer (17:36):
So will the state come in and eradicate your whole
flock if they find that you haveit?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (17:42):
Currently that was the procedure.
Because these are all we have tocall our state and the federal
veterinarian to be involved andthey work on it now.
It's hard.
Yes, they have to get rid ofthat because the principle of
that is that if they get rid ofsources, then it won't go to
(18:05):
your neighbor's farm.
And spread.
We're seeing more and more.
That's why in the early part ofthe H five and even now, you'll
see a lot of depopulation,especially in the larger farms,
because they're trying tocontrol that spread from to
other farms or to backyard.
(18:25):
Poultry flocks, and that's ahard thing for the backyard,
poultry, because you bond withyour birds too.
And some of you have grown yourbirds, especially the
exhibition, poultry, certaingenetic things that you have,
right?
Jennifer (18:40):
Oh yeah.
Does it pass vertically throughthe egg?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (18:45):
No, this is more it can, but this is more
respiratory.
Okay.
And I didn't finish with thesigns, but the main ones with,
Jennifer (18:55):
the main one's dead right?
Respiratory,
Dr. Theresa Morishita (18:58):
well dead.
But if they, you see them alive,they're gonna have severe
respiratory, so hard timebreathing.
Breathing with the open mouth,right?
And then it also passes throughthe intestines, so the feces.
And in the more severe forms youcan see them bloody diarrhea.
Okay.
Jennifer (19:18):
So that mimics a lot of other diseases though, those
symptoms.
Yeah.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (19:24):
Yeah.
Jennifer (19:25):
Yeah.
So what if you had, and I'm justgonna, and coughing
Dr. Theresa Morishita (19:28):
out blood.
Oh.
And then the third one isneurologic signs.
So the head will be twisting,like we call that like a
stargazing, like their head istwisted up.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
So the avian influenza has threeclinical.
Forms the neurologic with yourhead twisting up, they have the
(19:50):
digestive issues and then theyhave respiratory.
They can have one or all three.
So you see that kind of me thingin your flock, more likely you
have avian influenza.
So that's why Can youdistinguish it right away from
others?
I always say that.
Virulent Newcastle can also belike that.
(20:11):
And that's also a concern.
At least here in California, andit's, to me, it's just as
important.
It's a exotic disease cominginto the United States, and
those are very similar.
The only way you need, you gottatake it to the lab.
So you brought the questionabout.
(20:32):
It's very similar to otherdiseases.
So you should know your farm.
What kind of diseases do youhave?
And if you see anything unusual,so bloody diarrhea, oh God,
could be coccidia, right?
So take a look at the birds.
If there's a lot, if you seeneurological sign now, co city
(20:54):
is not gonna have respiratorydifficulties.
You're not gonna see them likeopen mouth breathing or
something, puffy heads.
So that's how we would look atthe birds and you can tell that,
but that's where it's importantto at least work with a local
(21:14):
veterinarian or someone.
Some states are really helpfulfor the backyard.
Flock.
So get to know your state andwhat they can do for, the
individual flock owners.
Because some states they haveprograms where backyard flock
owners can send birds orwhatever, or but for whether
(21:37):
it's Cox City or not, your localveterinarian can do a fecal exam
or, but you know best becauseyou work with your birds every
day.
Jennifer (21:47):
Observation.
Yeah.
We preach that
Dr. Theresa Morishita (21:49):
a lot.
Observation.
Carey (21:52):
Knowing
Dr. Theresa Morishita (21:52):
and knowing what's normal.
Jennifer (21:54):
Yes.
Carey (21:54):
Yeah.
Now, one question I have
Dr. Theresa Morishita (21:58):
Yeah.
Carey (21:59):
Is there anything you can do from a nutritional standpoint
to build up a strong immunesystem in your bird?
I.
To try to prevent that orprevent them from getting any
kind of diseases.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (22:14):
I know that some researchers are
looking at what do you callthat?
More immune strain or lesssusceptible to certain diseases.
But that's not in the generalpopulation.
And most backyard flux have youlike a certain breed or you like
your certain genetic exhibitionpoultry that you have, yeah.
(22:38):
That type of, is a lot ofresearch and a lot of money
going into that researchdevelop.
Potential strains, but that'shappening more like in the
commercial,
Jennifer (22:49):
that makes sense.
Money talks.
That's
Carey (22:52):
right.
Jennifer (22:54):
Alright.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (22:54):
But they, but the only, yeah, the only
thing for backyard flock is if,certain breeds are more
resistant or whatever, throughyour own observation.
Gotcha.
Jennifer (23:07):
All right, so let's talk about what some, what you
can do to protect your backyardflocks.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (23:14):
So what you could do to protect your
backyard flock.
The number one is biosecurity.
So bio stands for life andsecurity implies some sort of
protection.
So basically, like we talkedabout how to prevent germs from
getting germs of the virus fromgetting into your flock and vice
(23:35):
versa, how to stop your, if youhave a disease from it spreading
to your neighbors, right?
Jennifer (23:43):
cause we
Dr. Theresa Morishita (23:44):
all want to be responsible flock owners.
And so we talked about beingconscious of what we do and what
kind of activities we do, and.
We wanna make sure that whateverclothes we wear and shoes are
(24:05):
clean when we're dealing withour animals, right?
So that's number one.
And you may have seen picturesin the commercial industry.
We wear Tyvek suits whenever wego to a farm, boots and stuff.
Now you don't have to go to thatdegree, but you can have a
dedicated clothes that you usefor your flocks and not for
(24:27):
working with other birds, andthe other one too is knowing the
source of your birds that arecoming in.
A lot of the people that youshould know what is my
background diseases that I havein my flock, so I know what
potential some of them have youheard of the disease mycoplasma?
(24:48):
So there's a lot of.
While there's less in commercialindustry in the backyard flock,
there's not as much regulationsin part of the National Poultry
improvement plan.
So some of, most of the birdsare mycoplasma positive.
So if you've got mycoplasmapositive free, positive birds,
(25:08):
it's your birds, so you're gonnakeep them.
But you have to realize that Imight have to be more.
Careful of how I house my birdsat night, that I wanna make sure
that there's enough ventilationthat especially in the
wintertime, there's not ammoniabuildup that can cause or the
(25:29):
mycoplasma can or exacerbatethat and they will get like more
prone to respiratory diseases.
So just knowing what diseasesyou have and so what potentially
makes you a risk factor.
Okay.
So knowing your birds, getting,trying to get the best source
that you can feeding them goodquality food because we do know
(25:53):
and probably carry no excessivenutritionist if you don't give
good food quality their immunesystem, they can't fully develop
their immune system as well,right?
And, clean water.
Always clean water because, ifyou don't keep your water at
shoulder level for birds theyhave a tendency they can poop in
it and whatever that bird has,whatever disease can spread
(26:17):
through the flock.
So you wanna make sure that yourwater is lifted, at least
shoulder high for the chickensso that they can drink.
Without pooping in thatcontainer.
And then you try to clean thatcontainer if you can, daily.
That's always good hygiene.
So you're keeping your birdswell.
And the other thing, like yousaid, is being aware, am I under
(26:40):
a fly zone or not?
Do I have, do I invite otherbirds in?
Because some of us that likebirds also like to feed the
songbirds.
Bird feeders in.
So again, that's bringingpotential.
You don't know the health statusof the birds.
(27:01):
You're bringing them into yourflock.
And of course, chicken sea.
Ooh, bird feed that fell on theground.
I'm gonna go under there andpeck it.
Unfortunately, those songbirdalso poop there, and then
they'll be exposed.
So if we're serious about ourchickens and keeping them clean,
we probably don't wanna havebird feeders where the chickens
have access to.
(27:21):
And so another.
Another thing too is thefeeding.
Where are you feeding yourbirds?
So if I've got pasture raisedbirds and I'm just putting the
food out there, other wild birdssay, Ooh, free food source, I'm
gonna, and free water.
I'm gonna go over there and eat.
Again, that's just like yourbird feeder, right?
So we have to be conscious wherewe're gonna feed them.
(27:42):
So during these high risk times,it's probably good to feed them
early in the morning in anenclosed area.
I.
Make sure that songbirds, yougotta look at the fencing
diameter that doesn't allowsongbirds through.
Let them eat the food and thenyou can let them out on the
grounds, right?
So those are all things, we justhave to think what wild things
(28:06):
come and get exposed to ouranimals.
Jennifer (28:09):
Can mice and rats track it in?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:13):
We don't.
Have that information yet, butif you look at all the animals
that are in infected potential,
Jennifer (28:26):
it makes sense.
Yeah, it makes sense.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:28):
It makes sense.
Jennifer (28:29):
They walk through the manure, then step on the feed.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:32):
And we know that.
Rats and rodents can perpetuatelike a salmonella enters on a
farm.
So rodent control for allpoultry.
They're out there.
So having a rodent control isreally important,
Jennifer (28:45):
it is.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (28:47):
So those are all part of the biosecurity
picking up the dead right away.
Now if you have your like deadand that's a lot of dead, like
multiple of your flocks, thenyou have to watch out.
And that's why I would call, ifyou have so many dead a flock,
you might have one or two dead.
And backyard flocks are smaller,so you're not gonna have that
(29:10):
much like mortality, right?
Unless you're a poor keeper ofpoultry.
Yeah.
You don't see too much mortalityof your flock are healthy.
Because chickens, we're talkingabout chickens here, but also
they're pretty strong.
They can live up to 25 years incaptivity.
Jennifer (29:31):
Really?
25?
Yes.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (29:34):
Yes.
Jennifer (29:34):
I have two that are 12.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (29:37):
Oh, see, you're taking good care.
Jennifer (29:41):
I took good care'cause I just threw'em out.
They're on their own and theystill ticking'em along.
Yeah.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (29:47):
geese are like 40.
Oh wow.
So if they're for the chickensthey can live long, but most of
them, those get those old hands.
Are those reproductive problems,
Jennifer (29:59):
all right.
I have a question.
Can humans get the bird flu?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (30:03):
Yes, we can.
Can we give it back to thebirds?
There's always that potentialthat you can do.
You see the wide host range ofbirds, and we notice that from
the outbreaks that occurred,let's say waterfowl.
And it's like they died fromthis too.
And so they die along the lake.
And who's eating it?
(30:23):
The bald eagle.
And he gets affected byinfluenza, the foxes, whatever.
You have the car carnivorousanimals out there, they get
infected, right?
Jennifer (30:34):
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (30:34):
we've also seen on the East coast and
in South America.
Sea lions get.
Now how are they gonna get that?
Because infected seagulls, likethe birds might die and then
they die in the water andsomebody says, Ooh, easy food.
And then just eat it, right?
Jennifer (30:51):
And so
Dr. Theresa Morishita (30:51):
we see a whole variety.
So dogs, cats, all haveinfluenza.
Now we've seen, like in certainparts of the United States, like
in California, there's also beencanine influenza.
And so do.
It's this mixture.
And we do know that the bigpandemic, the worldwide pandemic
that had was like swine mixedwith other animals.
(31:13):
And then when you have thismutation of the different things
and it goes into the human, andonce it gets easily transferred
to the humans, that's how youcan spread.
'cause once it's spread fromhuman to human easily, then.
Then we'll get some kind ofpandemic.
So that's also a reason why inthe early days they try to
(31:35):
eliminate all these potentialflocks, right?
'cause we don't want to have anyworldwide pandemics, and that
hard thing too, if that's yourpet you have to you.
But that was done to helpprotect, the.
Health of your neighbor'sanimals as well as potential
(31:56):
spread because that influenzavirus, has a lot of animals can
be infected, different strains,but those strains can come
together and mutate'cause'causewhen two different strains they
can mutate and transfer thoselittle surface proteins.
Jennifer (32:15):
And then we got a hot mint.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (32:17):
Yeah.
So we wanna prevent that.
We don't need no other pandemicagain, right?
Jennifer (32:21):
Gosh, no.
Nope.
All right, let's move to the qand a side.
So I had put it out on Facebook,and we got several really good
questions back.
So Bantam fave asks if a vaccinecan be developed.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (32:41):
There are vaccines that are used in Europe
and Mexico has been usingvaccines too.
And the thought was that isshould we use vaccines or not?
And that's up to the USDepartment of Agriculture,
whether they approve it or not.
So I believe they're looking atthat right now.
Jennifer (33:03):
Okay.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (33:03):
And seeing what.
We can do one of the things thatif we do use the vaccine, one of
the hesitancies of using itbefore was trade because some
countries don't want vaccinatedor
Jennifer (33:21):
products.
Gotcha.
Makes sense.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (33:23):
that would hit hurt the US
agriculture.
Jennifer (33:25):
Yes.
Okay.
Deb is asking about euthanizingthe whole flock instead of
allowing the survivors to createa stronger flock, can we breed
for resistance?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (33:39):
That's one way to do for the survivor,
but as some of the tactics thatare used is that they they will
euthanize whole flock currently.
Whether that changes in thefuture.
We don't know, and one of thethings also that they euthanize
a flock is that, can weguarantee each individual that
(34:01):
has influenza can keep theirbirds safe and not expose or not
spread that disease, right?
Jennifer (34:10):
That's a true statement.
All right.
Amy asks, why are shows beingcanceled when they don't seem to
be a source of issues?
Dr. Theresa Morita (34:23):
I believe that the shows are being
canceled as a precautionary.
Because your bird may lookgreat, but maybe.
He got exposed early on.
He's not showing signs, but he'sshedding and the shows that I'm
familiar with, we have.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (34:42):
Wire cage next to wire cage.
Next to wire cage.
So if one bird's infected, it'seasily spread.
And actually a more commondisease that a spread through
exhibition is infectious laryntracheitis.
And that's why if you ever takeyour birds off from your farm,
you wanna make sure thatthey're.
(35:04):
At least quarantine for three tofour weeks in a separate area
from your main flock, becausediseases show about two weeks.
We call that the incubationperiod.
So the best is to keep themisolated.
You work with them last so thatyour main flock doesn't get
infected,
Jennifer (35:24):
all right.
I had two other questions, but Ithink we already answered those.
So Michael wants to know howthat you can develop a flock
health program for yourself.
Would that just be thebiosecurity?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (35:39):
No.
I would say for all flocks isthat.
You work with someone local andyou try to know what diseases do
I have?
And you go just like how we goto the doctors and we might take
a whole physical exam.
You wanna know what's in yourflock.
When you know what's in yourflock, you know what you can
(36:01):
vaccinate for.
You know what you might haveworms, you might have coccidia.
You know what that is?
So we always say, wheneveryou're getting new birds, keep
'em in quarantine and run'em forall these diseases.
Because what I will say, let'ssay worms or mites and lice,
(36:22):
it's a big headache once you getthat into your farm to have to
treat them all the time because,the roundworm egg can live in
the soil a very long time.
Jennifer (36:31):
Yeah.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (36:32):
so easily, once you get it you're
gonna have to treat, your futureflocks that way, and treating is
money, right?
So the better is to know whatyou're coming in have,
unfortunately, you have to spendthat work with somebody to get
what the, if there are positivefor worms or not.
(36:53):
And if there are no worms orwhatever, then you can have them
with the rest of your flop,right?
So you gotta know, you have toknow, which is for, you said
Michael, right?
Jennifer (37:04):
I was
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:04):
asking that question.
So knowing what you have in yourflock is most important, knowing
that you don't bring it in.
So there is testing periodic,that you wanna do
Jennifer (37:14):
okay.
And
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:14):
I think there's no greater time than
like some of the labs,especially those states that
have big poultry.
Industries there, they helpsubsidize some of the backyard
flocks so that they can run, sothat they will know what's in
their state too.
So the costs might be much less,
Jennifer (37:35):
oh, that's good information.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:36):
Yeah.
Jennifer (37:38):
All right.
Craig is asking, how is itgetting into the commercial
flocks with all of theirbiosecurity?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (37:45):
Probably the same way that our farms, if
they're on a migratory flyway,you know?
We, they have very goodbiosecurity, biosecurity is only
too strong as the workers orhelp that you get on that farm.
And then we have to becognizant, like we mentioned
before, are there activitiesthat I do that might not be
(38:09):
good?
Jennifer (38:09):
You are only as strong as your weakest link, right?
Carey (38:11):
That's right.
Jennifer (38:14):
All right.
Kristen wants to know if it canjump to other animals like goats
or rabbits, and you said yes,right?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (38:21):
Yeah.
I don't know about rabbits yet,but because maybe they don't get
exposed, they don't eat birds orlike carcasses.
Jennifer (38:30):
Ah, gotcha.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (38:31):
Like we were talking about rodents.
Rodents might probably eat somedead bird.
Jennifer (38:36):
Yeah, yeah.
I happen to know Kristen and soshe probably keeps her rabbits
up on wire and hutches'cause sheshows.
So there's a lot of crossoverbetween showing chickens and
showing rabbits.
So just good hand washing andkeeping clean stuff is probably
the best thing you can do.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (38:53):
Yep.
Yeah.
Their food source is, is notlike some infected bird.
And we don't have birds likethey say a lot of the, like on a
pond, when the birds take off,they fly and they flutter their
wings, right?
And that aerosolizes a lot ofthe water.
(39:14):
That's very similar.
So you got a lot of water.
So that's how all the birds canbe infected.
And if you think about like in adairy operation, all the cows
come into milk, there's a lot ofwater.
'cause somebody's gotta washthat utter down, right?
Jennifer (39:29):
And
Dr. Theresa Morita (39:29):
there's a lot of wet aerosolization in
there too.
So that's probably why.
When the outbreak in dairycattle, you can see a lot of the
workers.
In there because they're exposedto that,
Jennifer (39:42):
all right.
Homestead matters is asking whatis the reasonable threat of it
happening in a backyard flock?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (39:50):
Oh, can I finish out about that different,
oh yeah.
That different animal.
So mentioned, somebody saidgoats, but I believe that there
was a most recent report inEngland that they also found
that now in sheep, it was inEurope.
Yeah.
So
Jennifer (40:07):
possible.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (40:08):
Possible.
Yeah.
'cause they're eating the grassthat maybe birds had pooped on.
Jennifer (40:13):
Makes sense.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (40:15):
I'm sorry, what was the next
question?
Jennifer (40:17):
What is the reasonable threat of it happening in a
backyard flock?
Is there a percentage?
Dr. Theresa Morishita (40:24):
I don't know.
I could actually see apercentage because it depends on
your risk factor for eachindividual farm, if I had some
birds in my backyard.
Then I probably have a low risk,'cause I'm in like an urban
setting.
We have no Flyway here,
Jennifer (40:40):
so if you lived along the, say the Mississippi River,
your threat would be higher thanif you lived in the desert,
probably.
Makes sense.
Carey (40:51):
Yeah, makes perfect sense.
Jennifer (40:54):
I think, there was one more, but I think we already
answered it.
It was about a vaccine, I thinkthat was all of our questions,
and I'm gonna have to saysomething.
I'm gonna put it out here forthe public record.
I was of the opinion that youbreed for resistance, but you
have explained it in such a waythat it makes sense.
The depopulating, I'm gonna haveto say that
Dr. Theresa Morishita (41:16):
it's a sad thing, and we have to get.
It's our flock that is affected.
But if you think for the greatergood, and that's why they always
say if you've got some uniquegenetic stock, you never wanna
keep them.
Only in your farm.
You might know a neighbor andyou say, oh, here's my breed.
Can you help me maintain thisflock?
So let's say you live inTennessee and I live in
(41:41):
California or something.
You might, when you have yourbreed stock.
That you like.
That's why they keep it inanother place, a far location,
Jennifer (41:50):
and
Dr. Theresa Morishita (41:50):
not on the same site if you've got
this.
So I know some people that wereexhibition and they have 20
years they've been working withthis breed that they've been gen
the color pattern or whatever,so they.
That's the safest thing.
They always, we, we do that inthe commercial breeder flocks.
If there's certain breedersthey're located different spots.
(42:12):
You don't keep'em all in onespot.
'cause if you got a disease thatkills it right there.
But now that we have eveninfluenza, you gotta be very
careful because you can't be.
Transferring things state lineif you've got nearby, right?
Yeah.
'cause maybe they're resist,something.
So they should go through aquarantine period before they,
(42:34):
and each state has a quarantinemaybe that could be worked with,
when you're transferring birds.
But just to save all the,'causea lot of the backyard and
exhibition people, they havesaved their birds for a long
time.
So that's why biosecurity ismost important.
Watching all the sources,'causeyou wanna save your bird.
(42:57):
You have some people their aretheir pets, so that's their
individual human animal bond.
So of course you don't wanna putthat bird down.
So that's why it's trulyimportant that you do what
biosecurity to protect them,right?
Yeah.
And stop their exposure.
Jennifer (43:18):
Yep.
I want to say thank you forcoming on the podcast today.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this.
Yes,
Carey (43:25):
thank you.
Me too.
This is awesome.
Thank you.
I've learned a lot.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (43:28):
Yes.
And you guys are doing a greatjob because we have to get this
word out.
And to educate everyone aboutthese issues, to help prevent
that,
Jennifer (43:39):
all right.
Good
Dr. Theresa Morishita (43:39):
job.
Jennifer (43:40):
Thanks.
We hope to talk to you again inthe future.
Dr. Theresa Morishita (43:43):
Okay.
Be happy to.
All right.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thanks.
Bye.
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