July 4, 2024 • 28 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:00):
Hi, and Welcome to Poultry Nerds Podcast.
(00:02):
I'm Jennifer Bryant, and I'mhere with my co host for the
show, Carey Blackmon.
And we're here to help you getall the information you need.
To grow the healthiest,happiest, and best quality birds
possible.
Mhm.
Carey (00:23):
All right.
So today we're going to talkabout chickens.
Imagine that we're going to talkabout hybrids, how to make the
crosses, what some of them, whatsome of the results you get,
things like that.
I know Jennifer has done ahybrid chicken.
I have one that I've beenmessing with.
(00:45):
And so we'll go from there.
How are you doing Jennifer?
Jennifer (00:50):
I'm okay.
It's been a couple years since Idid a hybrid chicken, but I'm
not opposed to doing them again.
Carey (00:58):
It's fun.
That's actually what got hybridchicken, doing stuff with
chicken breeding is actuallywhat got me into quail because I
could see the results faster.
Jennifer (01:09):
Same.
Carey (01:11):
It's like the inner mad scientist in me.
That, that was interesting.
Jennifer (01:18):
Let's define hybrid for people who are new to birds
and may not understand whatwe're talking about, but that
just simply means crossing thegenetics.
Could cross two differentbreeds, two different color
varieties, or even if you hadtwo distinct lines, Say of
(01:39):
Orpingtons, you, and you crossthose, then that would be an F1
hybrid.
So each time you cross oneshould be for a reason.
The reason could be for breedingpurposes to get a show bird, to
get more breeders, to fix agenetic flaw that you're working
on, or it could just be simply,you want to see what you're
(02:00):
going to get when you put thesetwo birds together.
Carey (02:03):
Yeah,
Jennifer (02:05):
It's pretty simple.
You do the Dela Rosa hybrids,right?
Carey (02:10):
Yep.
Jennifer (02:10):
Those are across of Rhode Island Red and Delaware?
Carey (02:15):
That is correct.
Jennifer (02:17):
Okay.
Does it work both ways or onlyone way?
Carey (02:20):
My purpose behind that is I live in more metro than rural
area.
And I have a lot of people thatlive in downtown that want
chickens, but they're notallowed to have roosters.
(02:41):
So the whole thought processbehind the Della Rosa was
something that I could sex rightout of the hatcher.
And with that, I use a RhodeIsland red rooster and a
Delaware hen.
(03:01):
The hens come out red.
Roosters come out white and itworks great.
The birds, I know exactly whatthey are when they come out.
The, it only, I haven't triedpast three generations to see if
it continues to be sex lengthlike that.
(03:23):
I'm guessing the answer is goingto be no, because in theory it
shouldn't.
But it works and a lot of peoplereally like buying.
I can guarantee you it's a redpullet.
So that was the reason why Istarted that.
And I had the Delaware's formeat birds.
(03:47):
I was raising them for that.
And I had some Rhode Island Redsthat were not show quality, but
they were some really goodroosters.
Great personalities.
The temperament was there.
I could put three or four ofthese things in with 10 pullets
(04:08):
and they would not fight eachother.
They would not fight over thehens, really good temperament.
So I put them into that programand it does really, it works.
It's cool.
People like it.
Those and some other.
5 chicks actually paid for myhatching time CT 180 incubator.
Jennifer (04:33):
Yeah.
People who only can havepullets, girls, I mean that the
sex, so what we're doing iswe're using the sex linked genes
to create a auto patch when wedo something.
So I do the same thing withquail.
I put an Egyptian rooster overpharaoh hens and the offspring,
(04:58):
The Egyptians are girls, and thepharaoh phenotype is males,
because they're split.
But you can't see that when youlook at them.
So the dark ones would be males,and the females would be
Egyptian color, which I callblonde, but I think technically
they're red.
(05:18):
But they look blonde to me, soanyway, so hybrids.
Chickens, they serve a purpose.
And they're done on purpose byhatcheries.
The reason why I wanted to talkabout them today is because if
you're new to chickens and youare thinking that you have to
order from a hatchery to getyour chicks, Started or you stop
(05:41):
at tractor supply or whateverand get the impulse buy chicks
Carey (05:47):
A
Jennifer (05:49):
lot of those birds in there are not breeds They are
hybrids so I was looking on someof the websites and The ones
that look like a copper Maranbecause everybody wants those
chocolate eggs They're callingthem dominant coppers, rustic
(06:10):
ramblers mystic Marans.
Let's see, there's a fewdifferent hatcheries that do it,
and they may look a lot like aCoppoMaran, but they are not.
They might have the wrong skincolor, they won't be feathered
all the way down to their outertoe.
(06:32):
They'll be brassy.
They might have a purple sheento them, which you don't want on
any chicken breed.
Honestly, you want the greensheen.
They will probably lay a darkeregg which is why people like
them.
And there's nothing wrong withthem.
We are not implying that there'sanything wrong with them.
(06:54):
We just want to explain thatwhen you get these, Mystic
Marans, I see them a lot.
They are not Copper Marans.
They are a cross between aBarred Rock and a Copper Maran.
Carey (07:11):
And
Jennifer (07:11):
when you breed them, there is no telling what is
going to come out what it willlook like.
What it barnyard mix, but won'tbe a Copper Maran.
So that's a soapbox of mine ispeople just don't understand.
(07:34):
Now kudos to the hatchery thatI'm looking at for calling them
hybrids.
Occasionally I will see themreferred to as this is a hybrid
breed, which I don't think isthe correct terminology because
it's not a breed.
It's just a hybrid bird.
The other one that I found wascalled an austral white Which is
(07:57):
crossed between a blackaustralarp and a white leghorn
Again it's a hybrid it's meantfor egg laying For its docile
behavior I'm not saying there'sanything wrong with it.
I'm just saying that it's across and it won't breed true.
(08:20):
You can't, they won't all comeout uniform.
So if I breed my Orpingtons, oryou breed your Rhode Island
Reds, I know that if I put thesetwo together, And so do you.
You're gonna get an Orpington ora Rhode Island Red out of them.
There's no question.
If you put a Mystic Maran with aMystic Maran, could
(08:41):
theoretically get some withBarim on them.
You're gonna get a hot messcoming out of there.
Carey (08:47):
So
Jennifer (08:50):
if you think that you can buy a Mystic Maran and take
it to a show, it's not going towork.
Totally different animal thanwhat you will see at a show.
Carey (09:00):
Yeah, it is.
Those, I really hate it forpeople because a lot of times
people order those birds from ahatchery.
And, a lot of the hatcherieswill even say exhibition
quality.
Bye.
If you take a hatcheryexhibition quality to a Black
Copper Maran show you're goingto notice a big difference
(09:23):
between those birds and yourbird.
The same with the Rhode IslandRed.
If you, there's a hatchery outthere that charges a beautiful,
shiny penny for their exhibitionline of Rhode Island Reds, but
when you get those and you hatchthem out or you get them as
chicks, they, You can put thembetween, you can put them side
(09:48):
by side with a standard red andnotice the difference.
Jennifer (09:52):
Yeah and you could, in theory, if you had a long
lifespan ahead of you, takethose birds and breed them into
something.
magnificent through lots ofselection, but I don't know
anybody that has enough patienceto do that.
Rip Stavey (10:09):
Hi there, fellow poultry enthusiasts.
I'm Rip Stalvey from the PoultryKeepers podcast.
Please pardon me forinterrupting.
I promise I won't take long, butthere's something I need to tell
you.
I hope you're enjoying thisPoultry Nerds podcast as much as
I am.
I think my friends CarrieBlackmon and Jennifer Bryant are
doing a great job here, and Iknow they have even more
fantastic shows in the works.
(10:31):
You better subscribe to thispodcast so you don't miss an
episode.
Ha! I know I sure will.
Now let's get back to Carrie andJennifer.
Carey (10:38):
It's Mandelyn, she works with the American Bresse and
when she got those, she's beenworking with them for eight or
nine years now.
And, she's been breeding fortable traits.
And so she's culled really hardthroughout her period of time
doing those.
(10:59):
To be able to get the largerbirds that she has.
It's six, eight year process.
Cause she, she told me that shehas only gotten to that point.
Within the last two years, whichtells me five to six years is
how long of heavy selection,heavy coaling, and everything
(11:23):
else that it took to turn a birdthat was essentially a hatchery
bird into what it's supposed tobe.
Jennifer (11:35):
And eating a lot of chicken.
So when we say that we take abird or a lawn and breed it.
To what we want, like Mandelynhere in five or six years, don't
think that you can hatch a dozenchicks.
And move it along.
I would, I've never asked her,but I would be willing to bet
(11:58):
that she hatches hundreds ofchicks per year to find next
year's breeders.
Carey (12:05):
I know that she has a 1502 GQF and the whatever, the
hatcher that compliments it, andin hatching season.
She fills them up constantly.
I mean she does she hatches outhundreds of birds a year
Jennifer (12:26):
Yeah, and you have to in order to pick the best ones
so the other popular hybrid thatWe see A lot with newbies that
go and they get them fromtractor supply, the bins got
mixed up and they didn't realizethey got them is the infamous
Cornish cross.
(12:47):
Even in its name, it tells youit's a hybrid and that's a cross
between a Cornish and a whiterock.
And that's in simplistic terms.
It's, they, the breeders havebeen bred to a point.
Purpose and to create that crossthat we know the Cornish cross
(13:09):
and nobody really knows exactlywhat those breeders.
I've never seen the breeders.
Have you seen the breeders?
Carey (13:15):
So at one point in time I wanted to find me a breeding set
Jennifer (13:21):
Because
Carey (13:23):
I know The Cornish cross that you see when you buy the
day old chicks, that is not theparent stock and I wanted to get
like a trio or four of those soI could hatch out my own Cornish
cross, dang.
(13:43):
I can't find anybody to sellthat.
Jennifer (13:45):
No, I think you have to get a license and, get really
business close with thosebreeders.
And I don't even know where theyare.
I had
Carey (13:55):
somebody tell me that he could pull a favor if I really
wanted it.
But it, he said, you better beready to spend money because
people that when they do sellthose breeder sets, he said six,
800 per bird.
Jennifer (14:14):
Wow.
Wow.
Carey (14:17):
And I was like, Whoa,
Jennifer (14:19):
But you can, you can sell those chicks like hotcakes,
too.
Carey (14:24):
Oh, yeah.
Jennifer (14:25):
Those particular Cornish Grasses, those are bred
for meat production, to put on alarge amount of meat very
quickly.
And it's a hybrid that is bredto do that on purpose.
And it's the same concept as amystic Maran to lay the dark
egg, the Cornish cross to put onthe meat.
(14:48):
You have a purpose for doingthat hybrid.
You cannot keep a Cornish crossand breed them together and get
more Cornish crosses.
It does not work.
I know there are a couple peoplethat have tried to keep rangers
and have gotten a couple eggsfrom them, but I've never heard
(15:10):
of anybody hatching out any morerangers.
I don't know anything about theranger parent stock.
Do you know anything about them?
Carey (15:19):
So I know that there is a Rhode Island Red in that mix,
and I'm not 100 percent surewhat else is in that mix, but
yeah, it's, if you do, you'rejust going to get more Rangers.
(15:40):
Now I know somebody that usedthe ISA Browns.
The, for egg production and whatthey did because they wanted to
hatch out more is they got aRhode Island red and a white
legger two roosters, threw themin the pen with about 40 ISA
(16:06):
brown hens and they, thoseroosters were very active and
they hatched out a lot ofchickens.
The rooster chickens thathatched out went off to go be
table birds and the hens laid alot of eggs and are still laying
(16:27):
a lot of eggs today, two years,two years down the road from
this science project.
Jennifer (16:33):
Interesting.
I did the rangers last year,didn't care for them, didn't
care for the personalities,didn't care for their size,
didn't care for their taste,and, but I can say that I did
it, I tried it, and I won't doit again.
Carey (16:47):
Yeah.
Jennifer (16:49):
All right, so here's the big question for all the
animal rights activists, thevegans, and everybody else that
wants to get on the bandwagon.
Is what happens to all thosemale chicks?
If all the people just want thegirl chicks what happens to all
the male chicks?
Carey (17:06):
Sell them.
Jennifer (17:07):
Yeah, we still sell them.
They don't, I, I don't know ofanybody that puts them in a
grinder, at least not here inthe States.
Now that could be something thathappens in other countries, but
as far as I know, it doesn'thappen here.
Carey (17:19):
Yeah, I don't know about that, but there's a large
population of people they wantthose.
Just regular barnyard chickens.
They want the roosters.
They want to grow them and theywill process them because, in
the Hispanic culture, theytypically would rather have a
(17:40):
rooster over a hen when it comesto putting it on the table.
They say it tastes different.
But I know there's a guy localto me that has a large Hispanic
clientele and they actually wanthim to leave the head intact
with the bird when it'sprocessed, because They want to
(18:05):
see that it was in fact, arooster.
Jennifer (18:08):
Interesting.
So I hatch out hundreds of birdsa year to pick my show birds and
my breeders and everything.
And that leaves me with a lot ofmales.
We do grow them out and eatthem.
I have found that canning arooster makes the meat really
(18:28):
tender.
And so that's what we use themfor.
I do have a family that comesand buys extra roosters from me.
He will take as many as I canprovide to him, as long as
they've never crowed.
If they've crowed, he doesn'twant them.
Carey (18:47):
So he wants them young.
Jennifer (18:48):
Yeah.
So he'll come get them in threeor four months, which is odd
because, it's hard for mebecause, it's hard for me to do
a selection at that point.
So the only thing I could reallydo is You know, if they're too,
they're the smallest ones orjust for whatever that's a, you
(19:09):
need to go back and listen tothe selection video or podcast
for that.
But it's hard to select thatyoung age.
So sometimes he's not overlyhappy with that, but he doesn't
want them if they've grown.
So interesting.
That's
Carey (19:24):
definitely a new one.
Yeah, I haven't heard that.
Jennifer (19:28):
Yeah.
Let's see.
So I have a friend that managesa hatchery in Ohio, and I had
emailed him in preparation forthis podcast and asked him what
they do.
With all the little male babiesthat they end up with because
(19:48):
people just want to order thefemales And he said luckily that
they are able to sell them.
They offer a rooster pack forpeople who want to just grow
them out for the table the Andthen whatever they can't sell
that way they have an amishcommunity near them that takes
(20:11):
them And grows them out for thesame reason, but there's no
grinding of chicks or anythinglike that.
That the media wants you tothink is happening, at least not
as far as he is concerned.
Carey (20:24):
Yeah, now I do know that does happen with older birds
like quail.
A lot of people use that forfeeding their animals.
But it's no different thanhamburger meat.
Jennifer (20:43):
No, you just grind it up.
It's just meat is meat.
Now my, when I do the sex linkcatch on the quail and I ship
out, that was one of my bestsellers was the quail.
Hens that did leave me with alot of males and that's where
(21:03):
the reptile feeders came intoplay.
So I actually was able tooffload them to reptile people.
Carey (21:12):
Makes sense.
Jennifer (21:13):
We don't grind here at Brian's Roost either.
Everything gets used.
Carey (21:18):
That's right.
Everything gets used.
At one point, didn't you crossan Orpington and a Cochin?
Jennifer (21:30):
I did.
I had an extra Cochin cock birdand I had some yard Orpington
hens.
And so I just put them out inthe yard together.
So when I don't have any use forthem in a breeding pen, I just
throw them out in the yard.
And so he got, his name waspretty boy at the time.
And he has gone off to live witha lady about an hour from here.
(21:54):
And I want to say he's probablypushing four years old at this
point and he's still going good.
But he was with some Orpingtonhens and all of the offspring
came out blue.
with gold flecks and they looklike they had necklaces on and
then they had gold fleckssometimes around their thighs
(22:18):
And I call them black goldbecause they had all the
fantastic qualities of anOrpington.
Good mamas lay eggs regularlygood size, they were heavy, and
the poachin broodiness, which isjust crazy how broody a poachin
is.
I don't even know how that breedexists, honestly, because they
(22:41):
lay four eggs and they go broodyfor the rest of the summer.
We get enough chicks out of themis crazy.
But gosh, I sold those thingslike hotcakes, but the second
generation, I'm sure, was just ahot mess.
There's no telling what came outof those.
Carey (22:59):
And that happens a lot with a lot of different crosses
like that.
When you do something, make ahybrid cross, it's easy to know
what F1 is going to be.
But F2 or F3 is like a box ofchocolates.
Jennifer (23:14):
Yeah.
I saw a post this morning and Iengaged with him and he didn't
really understand.
And it was a quail post, butit's going to apply to chickens.
And what he did was he orderedjumbo eggs from four breeders.
So he would create geneticdiversity.
And I was trying to explain tohim that all he did was create a
(23:38):
bunch of hybrids.
And made a hot mess is what hedid.
And there was no reason to spendthe money to buy from these
breeders he was buying from.
If he was just going to mix themup, because all he did was undo
the work of the breeder.
Now he never, as far as, Ihaven't checked in a little bit,
(23:59):
but as far as I know, he stilldoesn't understand what I'm
trying to tell him.
I bet you
Carey (24:03):
he watched some videos on spiral breeding, and that's what
he was trying to do.
And that is not for.
Jennifer (24:13):
Actually, he breeds dogs and he was trying to apply
his mammal breeding logic
Carey (24:20):
to it.
Jennifer (24:22):
Exactly.
And but for the sake of thispodcast, the reason why I bring
it up is because what he wasdoing was creating hybrids.
Carey (24:31):
Because
Jennifer (24:32):
my line of jumbo browns, and Rebecca's line of
jumbo browns, and your line ofjumbo browns, they're all going
to be different, because we allselect for different things.
Our, even if we say we'reselecting for the same thing,
our eye is different.
And so the genetic makeup, willbe different.
(24:55):
And when we cross them, it's ahybrid.
They're going to have hybridvigor.
They're going to look different.
And you need to keep thoseseparated from your main line.
Carey (25:06):
I would recommend to somebody that if they were
wanting to do something likethat in a bird, get them from
the same person, find some thatyou like, get them from the same
person and.
Try it out before you mix inanother gene pool.
Jennifer (25:32):
Yeah, that's subline.
Carey (25:33):
Yeah don't do that.
Don't undo what that personspent years doing.
Try it out.
You probably going to be happyand it's going to save you a lot
of time.
Jennifer (25:46):
Yeah because the breeders already put in all the
time.
Carey (25:49):
That's right.
That's why they charge so muchfor
Jennifer (25:52):
eggs.
Yeah, exactly.
Carey (25:55):
Thank you for joining us this week.
Before you go, be sure tosubscribe to our podcast so you
can receive all the new episodesright when they are released,
and they are released onThursday mornings.
Feel free to email us atPoultryNerds@gmail.Com and let
us know what you think of theshow.
(26:15):
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make sure to give us a like anda follow.
Until next time, poultry pals,keep clucking, keep learning and
keep it egg citing.
This is Carey from Poultry Nerdssigning off.
Feathers up, everyone.
Mhm.
Hi, and Welcome to Poultry Nerds Podcast.
(00:02):
I'm Jennifer Bryant, and I'mhere with my co host for the
show, Carey Blackmon.
And we're here to help you getall the information you need.
To grow the healthiest,happiest, and best quality birds
possible.
Mhm.
Carey (00:23):
All right.
So today we're going to talkabout chickens.
Imagine that we're going to talkabout hybrids, how to make the
crosses, what some of them, whatsome of the results you get,
things like that.
I know Jennifer has done ahybrid chicken.
I have one that I've beenmessing with.
(00:45):
And so we'll go from there.
How are you doing Jennifer?
Jennifer (00:50):
I'm okay.
It's been a couple years since Idid a hybrid chicken, but I'm
not opposed to doing them again.
Carey (00:58):
It's fun.
That's actually what got hybridchicken, doing stuff with
chicken breeding is actuallywhat got me into quail because I
could see the results faster.
Jennifer (01:09):
Same.
Carey (01:11):
It's like the inner mad scientist in me.
That, that was interesting.
Jennifer (01:18):
Let's define hybrid for people who are new to birds
and may not understand whatwe're talking about, but that
just simply means crossing thegenetics.
Could cross two differentbreeds, two different color
varieties, or even if you hadtwo distinct lines, Say of
(01:39):
Orpingtons, you, and you crossthose, then that would be an F1
hybrid.
So each time you cross oneshould be for a reason.
The reason could be for breedingpurposes to get a show bird, to
get more breeders, to fix agenetic flaw that you're working
on, or it could just be simply,you want to see what you're
(02:00):
going to get when you put thesetwo birds together.
Carey (02:03):
Yeah,
Jennifer (02:05):
It's pretty simple.
You do the Dela Rosa hybrids,right?
Carey (02:10):
Yep.
Jennifer (02:10):
Those are across of Rhode Island Red and Delaware?
Carey (02:15):
That is correct.
Jennifer (02:17):
Okay.
Does it work both ways or onlyone way?
Carey (02:20):
My purpose behind that is I live in more metro than rural
area.
And I have a lot of people thatlive in downtown that want
chickens, but they're notallowed to have roosters.
(02:41):
So the whole thought processbehind the Della Rosa was
something that I could sex rightout of the hatcher.
And with that, I use a RhodeIsland red rooster and a
Delaware hen.
(03:01):
The hens come out red.
Roosters come out white and itworks great.
The birds, I know exactly whatthey are when they come out.
The, it only, I haven't triedpast three generations to see if
it continues to be sex lengthlike that.
(03:23):
I'm guessing the answer is goingto be no, because in theory it
shouldn't.
But it works and a lot of peoplereally like buying.
I can guarantee you it's a redpullet.
So that was the reason why Istarted that.
And I had the Delaware's formeat birds.
(03:47):
I was raising them for that.
And I had some Rhode Island Redsthat were not show quality, but
they were some really goodroosters.
Great personalities.
The temperament was there.
I could put three or four ofthese things in with 10 pullets
(04:08):
and they would not fight eachother.
They would not fight over thehens, really good temperament.
So I put them into that programand it does really, it works.
It's cool.
People like it.
Those and some other.
5 chicks actually paid for myhatching time CT 180 incubator.
Jennifer (04:33):
Yeah.
People who only can havepullets, girls, I mean that the
sex, so what we're doing iswe're using the sex linked genes
to create a auto patch when wedo something.
So I do the same thing withquail.
I put an Egyptian rooster overpharaoh hens and the offspring,
(04:58):
The Egyptians are girls, and thepharaoh phenotype is males,
because they're split.
But you can't see that when youlook at them.
So the dark ones would be males,and the females would be
Egyptian color, which I callblonde, but I think technically
they're red.
(05:18):
But they look blonde to me, soanyway, so hybrids.
Chickens, they serve a purpose.
And they're done on purpose byhatcheries.
The reason why I wanted to talkabout them today is because if
you're new to chickens and youare thinking that you have to
order from a hatchery to getyour chicks, Started or you stop
(05:41):
at tractor supply or whateverand get the impulse buy chicks
Carey (05:47):
A
Jennifer (05:49):
lot of those birds in there are not breeds They are
hybrids so I was looking on someof the websites and The ones
that look like a copper Maranbecause everybody wants those
chocolate eggs They're callingthem dominant coppers, rustic
(06:10):
ramblers mystic Marans.
Let's see, there's a fewdifferent hatcheries that do it,
and they may look a lot like aCoppoMaran, but they are not.
They might have the wrong skincolor, they won't be feathered
all the way down to their outertoe.
(06:32):
They'll be brassy.
They might have a purple sheento them, which you don't want on
any chicken breed.
Honestly, you want the greensheen.
They will probably lay a darkeregg which is why people like
them.
And there's nothing wrong withthem.
We are not implying that there'sanything wrong with them.
(06:54):
We just want to explain thatwhen you get these, Mystic
Marans, I see them a lot.
They are not Copper Marans.
They are a cross between aBarred Rock and a Copper Maran.
Carey (07:11):
And
Jennifer (07:11):
when you breed them, there is no telling what is
going to come out what it willlook like.
What it barnyard mix, but won'tbe a Copper Maran.
So that's a soapbox of mine ispeople just don't understand.
(07:34):
Now kudos to the hatchery thatI'm looking at for calling them
hybrids.
Occasionally I will see themreferred to as this is a hybrid
breed, which I don't think isthe correct terminology because
it's not a breed.
It's just a hybrid bird.
The other one that I found wascalled an austral white Which is
(07:57):
crossed between a blackaustralarp and a white leghorn
Again it's a hybrid it's meantfor egg laying For its docile
behavior I'm not saying there'sanything wrong with it.
I'm just saying that it's across and it won't breed true.
(08:20):
You can't, they won't all comeout uniform.
So if I breed my Orpingtons, oryou breed your Rhode Island
Reds, I know that if I put thesetwo together, And so do you.
You're gonna get an Orpington ora Rhode Island Red out of them.
There's no question.
If you put a Mystic Maran with aMystic Maran, could
(08:41):
theoretically get some withBarim on them.
You're gonna get a hot messcoming out of there.
Carey (08:47):
So
Jennifer (08:50):
if you think that you can buy a Mystic Maran and take
it to a show, it's not going towork.
Totally different animal thanwhat you will see at a show.
Carey (09:00):
Yeah, it is.
Those, I really hate it forpeople because a lot of times
people order those birds from ahatchery.
And, a lot of the hatcherieswill even say exhibition
quality.
Bye.
If you take a hatcheryexhibition quality to a Black
Copper Maran show you're goingto notice a big difference
(09:23):
between those birds and yourbird.
The same with the Rhode IslandRed.
If you, there's a hatchery outthere that charges a beautiful,
shiny penny for their exhibitionline of Rhode Island Reds, but
when you get those and you hatchthem out or you get them as
chicks, they, You can put thembetween, you can put them side
(09:48):
by side with a standard red andnotice the difference.
Jennifer (09:52):
Yeah and you could, in theory, if you had a long
lifespan ahead of you, takethose birds and breed them into
something.
magnificent through lots ofselection, but I don't know
anybody that has enough patienceto do that.
Rip Stavey (10:09):
Hi there, fellow poultry enthusiasts.
I'm Rip Stalvey from the PoultryKeepers podcast.
Please pardon me forinterrupting.
I promise I won't take long, butthere's something I need to tell
you.
I hope you're enjoying thisPoultry Nerds podcast as much as
I am.
I think my friends CarrieBlackmon and Jennifer Bryant are
doing a great job here, and Iknow they have even more
fantastic shows in the works.
(10:31):
You better subscribe to thispodcast so you don't miss an
episode.
Ha! I know I sure will.
Now let's get back to Carrie andJennifer.
Carey (10:38):
It's Mandelyn, she works with the American Bresse and
when she got those, she's beenworking with them for eight or
nine years now.
And, she's been breeding fortable traits.
And so she's culled really hardthroughout her period of time
doing those.
(10:59):
To be able to get the largerbirds that she has.
It's six, eight year process.
Cause she, she told me that shehas only gotten to that point.
Within the last two years, whichtells me five to six years is
how long of heavy selection,heavy coaling, and everything
(11:23):
else that it took to turn a birdthat was essentially a hatchery
bird into what it's supposed tobe.
Jennifer (11:35):
And eating a lot of chicken.
So when we say that we take abird or a lawn and breed it.
To what we want, like Mandelynhere in five or six years, don't
think that you can hatch a dozenchicks.
And move it along.
I would, I've never asked her,but I would be willing to bet
(11:58):
that she hatches hundreds ofchicks per year to find next
year's breeders.
Carey (12:05):
I know that she has a 1502 GQF and the whatever, the
hatcher that compliments it, andin hatching season.
She fills them up constantly.
I mean she does she hatches outhundreds of birds a year
Jennifer (12:26):
Yeah, and you have to in order to pick the best ones
so the other popular hybrid thatWe see A lot with newbies that
go and they get them fromtractor supply, the bins got
mixed up and they didn't realizethey got them is the infamous
Cornish cross.
(12:47):
Even in its name, it tells youit's a hybrid and that's a cross
between a Cornish and a whiterock.
And that's in simplistic terms.
It's, they, the breeders havebeen bred to a point.
Purpose and to create that crossthat we know the Cornish cross
(13:09):
and nobody really knows exactlywhat those breeders.
I've never seen the breeders.
Have you seen the breeders?
Carey (13:15):
So at one point in time I wanted to find me a breeding set
Jennifer (13:21):
Because
Carey (13:23):
I know The Cornish cross that you see when you buy the
day old chicks, that is not theparent stock and I wanted to get
like a trio or four of those soI could hatch out my own Cornish
cross, dang.
(13:43):
I can't find anybody to sellthat.
Jennifer (13:45):
No, I think you have to get a license and, get really
business close with thosebreeders.
And I don't even know where theyare.
I had
Carey (13:55):
somebody tell me that he could pull a favor if I really
wanted it.
But it, he said, you better beready to spend money because
people that when they do sellthose breeder sets, he said six,
800 per bird.
Jennifer (14:14):
Wow.
Wow.
Carey (14:17):
And I was like, Whoa,
Jennifer (14:19):
But you can, you can sell those chicks like hotcakes,
too.
Carey (14:24):
Oh, yeah.
Jennifer (14:25):
Those particular Cornish Grasses, those are bred
for meat production, to put on alarge amount of meat very
quickly.
And it's a hybrid that is bredto do that on purpose.
And it's the same concept as amystic Maran to lay the dark
egg, the Cornish cross to put onthe meat.
(14:48):
You have a purpose for doingthat hybrid.
You cannot keep a Cornish crossand breed them together and get
more Cornish crosses.
It does not work.
I know there are a couple peoplethat have tried to keep rangers
and have gotten a couple eggsfrom them, but I've never heard
(15:10):
of anybody hatching out any morerangers.
I don't know anything about theranger parent stock.
Do you know anything about them?
Carey (15:19):
So I know that there is a Rhode Island Red in that mix,
and I'm not 100 percent surewhat else is in that mix, but
yeah, it's, if you do, you'rejust going to get more Rangers.
(15:40):
Now I know somebody that usedthe ISA Browns.
The, for egg production and whatthey did because they wanted to
hatch out more is they got aRhode Island red and a white
legger two roosters, threw themin the pen with about 40 ISA
(16:06):
brown hens and they, thoseroosters were very active and
they hatched out a lot ofchickens.
The rooster chickens thathatched out went off to go be
table birds and the hens laid alot of eggs and are still laying
(16:27):
a lot of eggs today, two years,two years down the road from
this science project.
Jennifer (16:33):
Interesting.
I did the rangers last year,didn't care for them, didn't
care for the personalities,didn't care for their size,
didn't care for their taste,and, but I can say that I did
it, I tried it, and I won't doit again.
Carey (16:47):
Yeah.
Jennifer (16:49):
All right, so here's the big question for all the
animal rights activists, thevegans, and everybody else that
wants to get on the bandwagon.
Is what happens to all thosemale chicks?
If all the people just want thegirl chicks what happens to all
the male chicks?
Carey (17:06):
Sell them.
Jennifer (17:07):
Yeah, we still sell them.
They don't, I, I don't know ofanybody that puts them in a
grinder, at least not here inthe States.
Now that could be something thathappens in other countries, but
as far as I know, it doesn'thappen here.
Carey (17:19):
Yeah, I don't know about that, but there's a large
population of people they wantthose.
Just regular barnyard chickens.
They want the roosters.
They want to grow them and theywill process them because, in
the Hispanic culture, theytypically would rather have a
(17:40):
rooster over a hen when it comesto putting it on the table.
They say it tastes different.
But I know there's a guy localto me that has a large Hispanic
clientele and they actually wanthim to leave the head intact
with the bird when it'sprocessed, because They want to
(18:05):
see that it was in fact, arooster.
Jennifer (18:08):
Interesting.
So I hatch out hundreds of birdsa year to pick my show birds and
my breeders and everything.
And that leaves me with a lot ofmales.
We do grow them out and eatthem.
I have found that canning arooster makes the meat really
(18:28):
tender.
And so that's what we use themfor.
I do have a family that comesand buys extra roosters from me.
He will take as many as I canprovide to him, as long as
they've never crowed.
If they've crowed, he doesn'twant them.
Carey (18:47):
So he wants them young.
Jennifer (18:48):
Yeah.
So he'll come get them in threeor four months, which is odd
because, it's hard for mebecause, it's hard for me to do
a selection at that point.
So the only thing I could reallydo is You know, if they're too,
they're the smallest ones orjust for whatever that's a, you
(19:09):
need to go back and listen tothe selection video or podcast
for that.
But it's hard to select thatyoung age.
So sometimes he's not overlyhappy with that, but he doesn't
want them if they've grown.
So interesting.
That's
Carey (19:24):
definitely a new one.
Yeah, I haven't heard that.
Jennifer (19:28):
Yeah.
Let's see.
So I have a friend that managesa hatchery in Ohio, and I had
emailed him in preparation forthis podcast and asked him what
they do.
With all the little male babiesthat they end up with because
(19:48):
people just want to order thefemales And he said luckily that
they are able to sell them.
They offer a rooster pack forpeople who want to just grow
them out for the table the Andthen whatever they can't sell
that way they have an amishcommunity near them that takes
(20:11):
them And grows them out for thesame reason, but there's no
grinding of chicks or anythinglike that.
That the media wants you tothink is happening, at least not
as far as he is concerned.
Carey (20:24):
Yeah, now I do know that does happen with older birds
like quail.
A lot of people use that forfeeding their animals.
But it's no different thanhamburger meat.
Jennifer (20:43):
No, you just grind it up.
It's just meat is meat.
Now my, when I do the sex linkcatch on the quail and I ship
out, that was one of my bestsellers was the quail.
Hens that did leave me with alot of males and that's where
(21:03):
the reptile feeders came intoplay.
So I actually was able tooffload them to reptile people.
Carey (21:12):
Makes sense.
Jennifer (21:13):
We don't grind here at Brian's Roost either.
Everything gets used.
Carey (21:18):
That's right.
Everything gets used.
At one point, didn't you crossan Orpington and a Cochin?
Jennifer (21:30):
I did.
I had an extra Cochin cock birdand I had some yard Orpington
hens.
And so I just put them out inthe yard together.
So when I don't have any use forthem in a breeding pen, I just
throw them out in the yard.
And so he got, his name waspretty boy at the time.
And he has gone off to live witha lady about an hour from here.
(21:54):
And I want to say he's probablypushing four years old at this
point and he's still going good.
But he was with some Orpingtonhens and all of the offspring
came out blue.
with gold flecks and they looklike they had necklaces on and
then they had gold fleckssometimes around their thighs
(22:18):
And I call them black goldbecause they had all the
fantastic qualities of anOrpington.
Good mamas lay eggs regularlygood size, they were heavy, and
the poachin broodiness, which isjust crazy how broody a poachin
is.
I don't even know how that breedexists, honestly, because they
(22:41):
lay four eggs and they go broodyfor the rest of the summer.
We get enough chicks out of themis crazy.
But gosh, I sold those thingslike hotcakes, but the second
generation, I'm sure, was just ahot mess.
There's no telling what came outof those.
Carey (22:59):
And that happens a lot with a lot of different crosses
like that.
When you do something, make ahybrid cross, it's easy to know
what F1 is going to be.
But F2 or F3 is like a box ofchocolates.
Jennifer (23:14):
Yeah.
I saw a post this morning and Iengaged with him and he didn't
really understand.
And it was a quail post, butit's going to apply to chickens.
And what he did was he orderedjumbo eggs from four breeders.
So he would create geneticdiversity.
And I was trying to explain tohim that all he did was create a
(23:38):
bunch of hybrids.
And made a hot mess is what hedid.
And there was no reason to spendthe money to buy from these
breeders he was buying from.
If he was just going to mix themup, because all he did was undo
the work of the breeder.
Now he never, as far as, Ihaven't checked in a little bit,
(23:59):
but as far as I know, he stilldoesn't understand what I'm
trying to tell him.
I bet you
Carey (24:03):
he watched some videos on spiral breeding, and that's what
he was trying to do.
And that is not for.
Jennifer (24:13):
Actually, he breeds dogs and he was trying to apply
his mammal breeding logic
Carey (24:20):
to it.
Jennifer (24:22):
Exactly.
And but for the sake of thispodcast, the reason why I bring
it up is because what he wasdoing was creating hybrids.
Carey (24:31):
Because
Jennifer (24:32):
my line of jumbo browns, and Rebecca's line of
jumbo browns, and your line ofjumbo browns, they're all going
to be different, because we allselect for different things.
Our, even if we say we'reselecting for the same thing,
our eye is different.
And so the genetic makeup, willbe different.
(24:55):
And when we cross them, it's ahybrid.
They're going to have hybridvigor.
They're going to look different.
And you need to keep thoseseparated from your main line.
Carey (25:06):
I would recommend to somebody that if they were
wanting to do something likethat in a bird, get them from
the same person, find some thatyou like, get them from the same
person and.
Try it out before you mix inanother gene pool.
Jennifer (25:32):
Yeah, that's subline.
Carey (25:33):
Yeah don't do that.
Don't undo what that personspent years doing.
Try it out.
You probably going to be happyand it's going to save you a lot
of time.
Jennifer (25:46):
Yeah because the breeders already put in all the
time.
Carey (25:49):
That's right.
That's why they charge so muchfor
Jennifer (25:52):
eggs.
Yeah, exactly.
Carey (25:55):
Thank you for joining us this week.
Before you go, be sure tosubscribe to our podcast so you
can receive all the new episodesright when they are released,
and they are released onThursday mornings.
Feel free to email us atPoultryNerds@gmail.Com and let
us know what you think of theshow.
(26:15):
If you're on Facebook, check usout at the Poultry Nerds and
make sure to give us a like anda follow.
Until next time, poultry pals,keep clucking, keep learning and
keep it egg citing.
This is Carey from Poultry Nerdssigning off.
Feathers up, everyone.
Mhm.
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