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In this fascinating episode of Poultry Nerds, Jennifer is joined by Jeanette from The Livestock Conservancy and Deborah from High Ground Farm to shine a spotlight on one of America’s rarest heritage chicken breeds — the Black Java. Thought to be nearly extinct, these beautiful long-backed birds boast rich green iridescent plumage, gentle temperaments, and deep historical roots dating back to the early 1800s.
Deborah shares her firsthand experience raising Java chickens since 1999 and explains why they’re perfect for homesteaders. Jeanette offers expert insight into conservation efforts, census data, and the challenges of keeping this breed alive in the face of industrial agriculture trends.
If you've never heard of the Java chicken — or thought they were extinct — this episode is a must-listen! Discover where to find them, how to raise them, and how YOU can help preserve this incredible piece of poultry history.
📍 Topics include:
- Java chicken origins and unique traits
- Why they’re critically endangered
- Historical role in American agriculture
- The importance of slow-growing, dual-purpose breeds
- Challenges in breeding and show standards
- Conservation efforts and how to get involved
Black Java chicken, Java chicken history, endangered chicken breeds, heritage poultry, homesteading chickens, Livestock Conservancy, slow-growing chicken breed, dual-purpose chicken, Java rooster, poultry breed conservation, homestead farming, APA standard chicken breeds, black feathered chickens, American chicken breeds
🔗 Learn more or join the conservation movement: https://livestockconservancy.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:02):
Welcome back Poultry nerds.
I'm Jennifer and Carrie is MIA.
Today he is out on a deliveryand didn't make it back.
So I'm here with Jeanette fromthe Livestock Conservancy and
Deborah from High Ground Farm.
We had a request to discussBlack Javas, and so I invited
(00:24):
you guys here to tell us allabout'em.
And quite honestly, I had neverheard of them before, so it was
news to me to get that email.
So how are you guys doing today?
Jeanette (00:38):
I'm
Jennifer (00:38):
great.
Jeanette (00:39):
Doing great.
Yeah, always happy to talkchickens.
Jennifer (00:45):
So Jeanette is returning.
She was here.
We talked about turkeys.
Did we talk about turkeys?
Jeanette (00:54):
I think.
I think so.
I don't know.
We, we went, of course,
Jennifer (01:00):
we went through down some rabbit holes on your trip
across Europe.
I do remember that.
And somehow we got off on somepigs on an Indian reservation
too.
Like we just totally went toleft field.
I remember all of that stuff.
But Debra, it's nice to meetyou.
Can you tell us about yourselfand where you are and all that
good stuff?
Deborah (01:19):
Sure.
I live in the middle part ofNorth Carolina and have been
here for a long time.
I started with Java Chickens in1999 and it all spun out of an
article that was in Mother EarthNews at the time about the Java
chicken, which they thought wasextinct.
But they discovered, some in theMidwest and Garfield Farm.
(01:43):
Collaborated with the museum oflet's see, what's it called?
Jeanette, correct me if I'mwrong.
Industry,
Jeanette (01:49):
museum of Industry.
Deborah (01:51):
It it was science and industry.
Jeanette (01:53):
Science and industry.
Deborah (01:54):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I always get it mixed up.
And I became involved with thatproject and got lots of job at
chickens, chicks from them andhave kept clothes flock since.
I still have them.
They're lovely.
They're just wonderful breed.
I had chickens before that, butthere's nothing that compares in
my mind.
(02:14):
They're the best for me.
Jennifer (02:17):
I'm looking at a picture of'em in the standard of
perfection, and honestly, theylook a lot like a black
orpington.
Deborah (02:25):
Yes.
Similar.
Jeanette, you can speak on thisas well, but from my
understanding, they were one ofthe original chickens brought in
from the, from Asia.
Not sure exactly of the origin,but there are people that think
that probably from the OliveJava but can't be certain about
that, but probably the early 18hundreds, perhaps earlier they
(02:46):
were home.
Yeah.
Go ahead
Jeanette (02:49):
and we're not really sure what the connection is to,
to Asia.
It the thing about the Javacompared to the Orpington is
there's a big difference intheir profile.
And Javas have the longest backof the American class.
And so if you look at them in anorpington.
(03:12):
Side profiles, the Javas, you'lljust see these super long backs
and they look completelydifferent.
And they also have different legcolor and there's some other
differences too.
But the Javas they're our secondoldest American breed.
The only animal that's beenrecorded earlier than the Javas
is the Dominique Chicken.
(03:33):
And they've been around for along time.
They say as early as 1835, butthey think that they could have
been around even longer thanthat.
So they've really got aconnection with American history
here.
Deborah (03:48):
Yes, that's, I think that's a very good point.
And, for me as a homesteaderand, or homestead life liver the
non-aggression particularly ofthe roosters and the docile of
the hens.
And the hands of, nurturing justinnate personalities, just makes
them such a nice bird to haveround.
(04:10):
So yeah, that's
Jeanette (04:10):
important for homesteaders.
Deborah (04:13):
I agree.
And this is my hypothesis,certainly nothing to prove it,
but I believe that because theywere around the house and,
probably free ranging for a longtime, the ones that were
aggressive just, made it to thetable and they were naturally
weeded out.
I've had Java of course all thistime, and I've kept as many as
(04:33):
six or seven roosters at a time.
I have never had an aggressiverooster.
I should knock on woodsomewhere, but, and they have,
great long spurs, they defendtheir flock.
They're vigilant with theirflock, but not with humans.
I've just not seen that in mineanyway.
Jennifer (04:52):
Why do you think they're on the endangered list?
'cause that's where they are,right?
Jeanette (04:58):
Yeah, they're critically endangered right now.
And the last census we did, wefound only 327 breeding birds in
the US And a lot of that has todo with the museum of Science
and Industry getting outta Java.
'cause they used to produce alot of Javas.
Because they had the.
(05:18):
The incubator that people couldwatch, chicks being hatched at
the museum.
And when they stopped that thatreally put a dent in Java
populations.
'cause prior to that the censuswe did in 2015 we actually had
found almost 2000 breeding birdsout there.
And then it plummeted to 327after that.
(05:42):
It's, it goes to show you thatwhen you put most of your eggs
in one basket, if that basketdisappears you can get a breed
can get in big trouble quick.
Yeah.
It was unfortunate, but, there'ssome living history museums now
that are interested in havingbreeding groups and, that's got
me excited because that not onlyhelps, create new breeding
(06:06):
groups, but it exposes the breedto new audience that maybe had
never heard of them before.
So that's really exciting.
Deborah (06:15):
Yes, I believe raising awareness and just getting the
name out there and the diresituation they're in had will
really help.
There was a time that I.
Was involved selling eggs andother produce to Whole Foods
market and just talking aboutJavas and just, making people
aware of their plight and theirrole in history, I think.
(06:38):
Beneficial.
So anything we can do to raiseawareness, I believe is
important.
Back to your, I'm sorry, goahead.
There's a delay.
I was gonna saying it's,
Jeanette (06:48):
and it's, thanks to Deborah.
We were able to get Old WorldWisconsin a start in Javas and,
I drove all the way to Nashvilleand the Wisconsin folks drove
down to Nashville to meet me toget a bunch of chicks that we
had hatched out from Deborah'seggs.
And they're super excited aboutthe Java.
And in their gift shop, theyhave a.
(07:10):
Custom developed Java chickenstuffy that they sell.
Yeah, it's quite cute.
Even has correct leg color, soOf course.
Deborah (07:22):
But of course,
Jeanette (07:23):
yes, of course.
Deborah (07:24):
I think you know, the interest like the the Amer, what
is it, the American Java Clubthere's a lot of interest there.
I get lots of questions fromthem and people of course, that
want hatching eggs.
And so every time a grouphatches eggs, there's a
celebration.
That they have expanded thenumbers a bit.
But you are back to yourquestion, Jennifer, about, while
(07:47):
they fell out of favor, I thinkthere's multiple reasons, and
one is that they grow veryslowly.
Other chickens are mature andready for the table at about six
to eight weeks, and Javas are, afraction of that weight.
They just grow very slowly.
And then also they have blackfeathers and they're very
difficult to remove for sellingthe meat because the pin
(08:09):
feathers of course, remain andlook dark and people.
Don't like that.
So I think there's reasons thatit fell out of favor with
industrialized chickenproduction.
Jennifer (08:21):
So I would, I raised standard orpingtons, so we're
looking at what, nine, 10 monthsfor them to be roughly full
size.
Is that about the same for theJavas?
Deborah (08:33):
Probably yes.
They start laying at about 24weeks, maybe 26 weeks in
contrast to some of the moremainstream birds that might be
laying at 20.
And then table size, if you weregrowing them from meat, I would
guess yes, probably nine or 10months old.
What would you think Jeanette?
Jeanette (08:55):
It, it depends what meat product you want because
you can butcher'em at any age.
But you need to ask yourself, doyou want a fryer?
Do you want a roaster, do youwant a broiler?
So it, it depends.
Typically I find with the slowergrowing birds, that if you want
a fryer which you can cook witha higher heat methods.
(09:16):
You could probably get a fryerby about, 14 weeks.
Then if you wanna get a nicetable bird, like a broiler or a
roaster, now you're talking 18to 20 weeks.
And the roaster may be a bit.
Later, I think that the Javaroosters really come into their
own after they're a year old.
Maybe by the time they're twoyears old.
(09:38):
And the thing that I've foundreally fascinating is at least
in Deborah's hands, they'repretty long lived.
They're, and they're productivevery long too.
Yes.
Yeah.
If you go to our website and goto our Java page, you'll see a
picture of one of her beautifulroosters, and I think he was
probably four or five years oldwhen I took that picture.
(10:01):
And he still looks like acocker.
He just looks beautiful nicelyfleshed out.
And you'll see that super longback that they have.
Yes.
Yeah.
The other thing that's been abit of a challenge with Javas
is, the a PA recognizes only twocolor varieties, the black and
the modeled.
(10:22):
But people like to play withcolor and a lot of times you'll
get white sports or what we callAuburn sports.
And, dang, if the whites aren'tlike the biggest ones, it's
always those off-color birdsthat are the, end up being the
biggest.
But they're not a PA varieties.
(10:44):
And for the conservancies work,we're really concentrate on the
black and the modeled and theblack in part.
Is challenging'cause peopleagain, color and so they migrate
towards the model more, whichleaves the black Java.
The because as Deborah saidcleaning them when you're
(11:06):
processing can be a bitchallenging if they've got black
pin feathers.
The funny thing is, back in theday before industrialization.
People with black chickens wouldboast about how clean their
carcasses was because were,because they were black chickens
and they wanted to ensure theircustomers that they were
(11:27):
beautifully dressed and thatthey took pride in making a a
beautiful table bird with theseblack feathered birds.
But the models definitely aredoing better than the Black
Javas.
And I was able to encourage oldWorld, Wisconsin to concentrate
on the black variety since,there's not a ton of folks, but
(11:50):
I will say, the, the Facebookgroup that, that Deborah had
mentioned the Java Breeders ofAmerica.
There are nearly 600 people inthat group.
Oh yeah.
Deborah (12:03):
Huge interest.
Yes.
And they all boas when theyhatch eggs, they all show their
chicks and boast on, how manythey hatched and how they look
and all.
So I'm real pleased.
I've met some lovely peoplethere that now, we talk on the
phone now, so it's a greatoutreach and a great way to
raise awareness about the Javachicken.
Jeanette (12:23):
Yeah, it would be nice.
Nice to see more in on the showside of things.
'cause I go to some of thebigger poultry shows in the US
and you don't see that manyJavas and, in order,
Deborah (12:36):
no, go ahead.
Go ahead.
I don't wanna
Jeanette (12:38):
garner interest.
Even more.
I think it would be helpful ifwe could get some really good
quality Java on the show floor.
Deborah (12:46):
Yes, the first, maybe the second year that I had them,
I entered them into the NorthCarolina State Fair and of
course, one, all the ribbons ofcourse, because they were the
only job was there.
But after that I became quiteworried about them picking up
some disease and so did not takethem back.
And I think that, for me,because I take biosecurity quite
(13:09):
seriously, that for me has beena barrier.
Perhaps, in the future that'llbe something they'll have some
strategies to work around thatissue.
Jennifer (13:19):
So tell me about the breed club.
How active and open is that?
Deborah (13:24):
Do you mean on Facebook?
Jennifer (13:25):
Just tell, is there a breed club?
Deborah (13:28):
Yes.
There's the, what did you callit?
Jeanette Java.
Jeanette (13:31):
That was the Facebook group.
I don't think there's an actuala PA sanction club.
I don't think so either.
But Facebook group is the nextbest thing.
And and it seems to be a veryactive community there.
Jennifer (13:46):
Yes.
So one of the things I'm lookingat in the SOP.
Is they have black shanks, butthey have yellow feet.
Is that right?
Exactly.
Deborah (13:56):
Yes.
So they have lovely black tops.
The legs are black, the skin,and then the tops of the feet
are black and the toenails areblack.
But then underneath, when youturn it over, the soles of the
feet are yellow.
Jennifer (14:10):
How hard is that as a breeder to maintain that?
Deborah (14:13):
It's tricky.
Jennifer (14:14):
And I'm always
Deborah (14:15):
looking at feet.
Yes.
And then there'll be one thatpops up that's a little pink,
and you think, where did thatcome from?
So then that one is set aside asa laying hand and I won't breed
her.
So I've run into interestingthings through the years.
I've had out of the black job ofthe solid black Java, I had two
white ones, solid white ones uphere.
(14:37):
I've had no models.
I've had a couple of Auburns.
But that was unusual.
Their feathers were black, buthad just a little bit of a red
sheen to those, so I gave thoseto a friend for laying hands.
So yes, as a breeder you have toalways be aware and.
Quickly to separate and, choosewhich ones to breed.
(14:58):
Jeanette has been out severaltimes now to help me go through
the flock and choose which onesare best.
But back to your point,Jeanette, about how long they
live, I've had one, one or twolived to be 12 years old.
And they were quite, they did,and they still lay an occasional
egg.
And I've had roosters as old asseven or eight.
(15:19):
So they're really hardy breed.
Jeanette (15:22):
Yeah.
They're really a great utilitybreed.
Jennifer (15:25):
The reason why I asked about the Yellow Feet is I was
raising Cogens for a while, andit was hard to maintain that
yellow skin with the blackpigment always wanting to come
in.
Is that maybe a reason why thebreeders are shying away from
it, just for the difficulty?
Deborah (15:44):
I don't, I can't speak to that.
I don't know.
Jeanette, what do you think?
Jeanette (15:49):
I think it's it's just, it's a solid blackbird.
And the trends that I've seen ofpeople like color and they like
something different.
And it's really put intojeopardy a lot of these solid
colored birds.
The thing is, the blacks, whenthe sun hits them it is like a
(16:10):
rainbow.
It's just so beautiful to seethese birds.
In the sunlight and you can seesome of that green sheen coming
through on our webpage.
It's just really stunning.
And it's not a flat black, it's,it's got that iridescent green
to it that's just spectacular,thick of Cayuga ducks, that
(16:31):
just, yeah, beautiful.
And I think really underrated.
And and that may be one of thereasons why there, there are no
hatcheries that.
Offer Javas just becausethey're, busy selling rainbow
layers and, real coloredchickens and stuff that makes
(16:51):
your eyes pop.
But, there's something to besaid for a solid black bird with
the green sheen.
They're just spectacular.
One thing I want wanted tomention before it jumps outta my
head.
We're still on the lookout forold lines of Java and.
We actually managed to find alady out in I think it was South
(17:12):
Dakota.
The Mrs.
Schuler who happened to fallunder our radar when we were
doing a census.
And she had no idea.
Javas were rare'cause her familyhad.
Java since before World War ii,and they just always had them.
And she was very kind enough toshare some hatching eggs with us
(17:37):
so that we could get the birdsinto some other hands.
And it wasn't long after thatwe, hatched out the chicks and
put them into other hands that Igot a phone call from her one
day and she said they're allgone.
And she had a predator come inand killed all her chickens.
Oh, how horrible.
And it was awful.
(17:58):
And but because we hatched awhole bunch here in North
Carolina.
We could go back to the peoplethat we gave the chicks to and
we actually were able to sendeggs back to Mrs.
Schuler.
And Deb, maybe you can fill insome of the gaps.
'cause you were trying to trackdown her chickens and I think
you managed to find some more,didn't you?
Deborah (18:20):
No, that was a different line.
This was a line I was trying tofind the line of model Javas
that were at the.
College of Agriculture there inPittsburgh?
Oh, okay.
Back years ago.
Yeah.
And'cause I love them.
They were so big.
And so the personality, thosewere the
Jeanette (18:36):
Schuler, those were the Schuler birds?
Deborah (18:39):
No, I was told it was Eileen Jensen.
Oh gosh.
Sorry.
That is correct.
That's okay.
That's okay.
So I talked to Hillary.
Who was the firm manager at thetime that I got them from the
college, and she said they werefrom Eileen Jensen in the
Midwest.
So I found her and talked to heron the phone multiple times.
(19:02):
We had hour long conversations.
She's in her eighties.
Her husband had passed away andshe could no longer manage the
flock, so she sold them tovarious neighbors and to ideal
nursery.
So that's where my, I went downthe rabbit hole looking for them
and found some I called all theneighbors.
(19:25):
I called her to the hatcheries.
She wasn't a hundred percentsure of the name of the
hatchery, so I had to callmultiple hatcheries and did get
some, but they were not thesame.
They were not the same.
And I was very unhappy withthem.
Yeah.
Jeanette (19:42):
And the latest census we did showed none of the
hatcheries had them.
So that block gone.
Deborah (19:49):
Yes.
And then back to their sheen.
I have to comment, I've readthat the sheen of the green on
the black feathers as emeraldbeetle green, like a June bug
would have that shine.
And I think it's very, it isvery much like that.
Their feathers are beautiful andthe roosters, they're, they grow
these very long tail feathers.
(20:11):
At the top, that flutter in thewind.
They're quite beautiful birds.
So I think I have some postedmaybe on my website.
If not, I'll, my blog.
If not, I'll post some of themost recent ones so you can see
them.
But they're just incrediblyphotogenic.
They the pictures always turnout nice yeah.
Jennifer (20:32):
Okay.
So if somebody wanted to getinto them, who would they
contact?
Jeanette (20:39):
I think reaching out to the Java group would be a
good start.
We do have an online breedersand products directory so you
might be able to find breedersthrough that.
But if there aren't any that areclose to you on that directory,
then I would definitely reachout to the Facebook group and,
put a post.
(21:01):
You're looking for'em in acertain area, and you might be
lucky enough to find somebodythat's that's working with them.
I would say that the biggestthing is have patients, they're
critically endangered.
They're not easy to come by, andit may be that you try and make
arrangements in the fall or thewinter to try and get hatching
(21:23):
eggs in the spring.
I, I would suggest starting inthe fall, yeah.
Just to make sure that you goteverything lined up.
Because there is increasinginterest, but they're still
critically endangered, so veryhard to come by.
And if you really want them,just know you, you may have to
travel to get'em, yes.
Jennifer (21:44):
Listening to you guys talk about'em, it sounds like
there's maybe only a handful oflines in the whole United
States.
Deborah (21:53):
I
Jeanette (21:53):
don't
Deborah (21:53):
know how many would know.
Jeanette (21:56):
Yeah.
We haven't done a comprehensivecensus.
Of bloodlines in a long time.
We are taking on a new census in2026.
The conservancy is committed todoing a census of poultry every
five years.
And it's every five yearsbecause it's a bear of a project
to try and get done.
(22:17):
'Cause there are no registriesand, you've got to work through
networks of people to try andreach, the folks that you need
to be.
Reaching out to this upcomingcensus.
We are actually developing ateam of people within the a PA
community.
And what I'm trying to do isline up people that expertise in
(22:44):
a certain class of chickens.
Like I've got somebody that is avery active ao breeder.
She does shemos and when you'rereading within a certain class,
you get to know who's got whatand who's doing what.
And I've got someone for theEnglish class and a person for
waterfowl and I'm continuing tolook for people within the other
(23:08):
classes.
We can all tackle it togetherand hopefully get most
comprehensive census that wewill have to date.
But again it takes a lot of timeand a lot of effort, and I'm
pleased to say the a PA let usofficially form an a PA sanction
committee for census.
(23:30):
So they've put their backingbehind the effort.
And the important thing aboutcensus is it guides.
Conservation efforts for thenext five years and the census
helps us to identify what breedsor what color varieties are in
big trouble.
And we try to bring awareness sothat people that maybe they
(23:53):
didn't know that black Javawere.
Becoming really rare.
We've discovered in our lastcensus that we've actually lost
a bunch of color varietieswithin breeds just because no
one's kept up with it.
Yeah, we're looking forward tothe census and we already have a
sponsor for it.
For folks that are out there andhave breeding flocks, keep your
(24:16):
eyes open for the set, thenotification that the census is
on, we'll probably launch itnext February and it'll probably
carry on for four to six months.
And then and then we'll compileall the data and we usually
publish it with a PA and on ourwebsite and anybody who will
listen to us, we will talk aboutcensus numbers.
(24:38):
Really important work coming upfor poultry.
Jennifer (24:42):
That sounds good.
Deborah, do you wanna tell usabout your website and your blog
and anything else you have goingon?
Deborah (24:51):
The blog is sadly neglected, but it has been going
on for about 10 years.
So you can go back and read,some of the archival, pieces
that I started in the beginning,which, and it goes, it's about
the farm.
So there's various things goingon here.
Java chickens are a big part ofit.
It's all part of sustainableliving and preservation for me.
(25:13):
The house that I live in andwhere we live is, was built in
1840, so it's on the nationalregistry.
So that's part of preservingarchitecture and history the
livestock.
Not all is in the conservancybut the Java chickens certainly
are, but I also have angoragoats just because I adore them.
(25:34):
And I spin the wool.
I spin the wool and make thingsout of that.
So I have connections with,textile artists and that kind of
thing.
I have tours here.
And I have events and things andalways, I'm always talking about
Java chickens.
I'm always talking up Javachickens.
And so people are always sointerested.
I think that's a critical piece.
(25:54):
Again, I've mentioned before ofraising awareness and talking
about what wonderful homesteadbirds they are and how they're
part of our history.
So the blog is high groundfarm.com.
So you can see it there.
It's through the years become abit different, but people would
be able to see chicks and soforth there.
Okay.
(26:14):
And of course there's a Facebookpage for High Ground Farm, and
then there's a personal page,Facebook page for Deborah
Underwood Brown.
And then there's Instagram ofcourse, high ground farmer.
But all of these are justchronicling the going zone here,
but Java chickens certainly area huge part of it.
And do you sell eggs and birds?
(26:36):
I do.
I do.
I, again, the ones that are notbreed standard, I sell as laying
just regular laying hands.
And people are just honored toget them.
And I think when they know thehistory and they know the
numbers are.
So rare.
I think it makes them feel,quite honored to take care of
them and they're stewards of thebreed.
(26:57):
So yes, I do and I sell hatchingeggs and people are interested.
I keep a running list of peoplethat want them.
And it's an ongoing thing to tryto hang on to this beautiful
breed.
Awesome.
Jeanette (27:08):
Debra, you do have to mention your artwork.
Debra's quite the artist andshe's done some beautiful
paintings.
Deborah (27:16):
Oh, thank you.
I do I paint trees, a lot oftrees, but I also paint Java
chickens.
So I have note cards of thingslike Java chickens decorating
their Christmas trees.
And and it takes someimagination because I had to go
down to the barn and look atthem and sketch their faces and
so forth.
But then I had to figure outwhat kind of a tree would a Java
chicken have and what kind ofdecorations would they put on
(27:39):
that tree?
So that took some doing.
But anyway, so their Christmascards with Java chickens and
there's Java chickens.
I wrote a book actually, if Ican find a way to publish the
thing, a children's book, but,and all the watercolor
paintings, of course, areoriginal.
I just paint the things I likeand sometimes other people like
them too.
Jennifer (27:59):
If we hang ornaments in the shape of chickens, then
chickens would hang ornaments inthe shape of people.
Deborah (28:04):
I don't know about that.
They sometimes, I don't thinkthey liked me at all but they
did.
I decided they would hangornaments of food because,
chickens are so food oriented,so they have, they did ornaments
of little vegetables and littlefruits.
And things like that.
That's what their ornamentsended up being.
But maybe I should do littlepeople.
You're right.
Maybe I should.
Jennifer (28:27):
That sounds awesome.
It sounds like you have a nicelittle farm going on.
Deborah (28:31):
It's a, it is just a way of life.
I've lived this way for 50years.
I just came out of the closet,just about 30 years ago.
'cause I used to, I was inmedicine and I would be in the
middle of some big academicthing.
And people would be talkingabout what they did the weekend,
and how they went to the malland they did this and that.
And I'd say you won't believeit.
I was able to spin and I wouldtell'em what I was spinning on
the wheel and what I did on thefarm, and they thought I was
(28:53):
insane and they would just driftaway from me.
But about thir 20, maybe 20years ago, I became really in.
My sons were like, oh mom, thisis so cool.
Tell my, their friends wouldcome over and they'd say, we
can't believe you do this stuff.
It was very hip, and so all of asudden I can talk about it and
(29:13):
I'm it's cool, but it didn't,used to be, it wasn't cool in
the nineties, but it is ainteresting way of life.
But I've lived this way a verylong time.
So
Jennifer (29:23):
Do you eat your birds?
Deborah (29:25):
I, we do if I can help find, I can't process them
myself.
I have this, I just can't.
So if I can get somebody else todo that for me, yes, absolutely.
Yes, they make lovely, it makesa lovely broth.
There is no broth like it tocook a chicken, very long.
And I'm sorry.
And it and and it that makes akind of a gelatinous.
(29:48):
Thick, gelatinous rich chickenbroth.
So it's great.
Jennifer (29:53):
Awesome.
All right.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this.
Ladies.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Deborah (30:00):
I've enjoyed it too.
I'm sorry that the camera didn'twork, but but you might find a
little picture of me somewhereon Facebook.
I usually avoid the camera, so
Jennifer (30:10):
That's all right.
We just post the audio anyway.
Cool.
Alright.
Tell me and.
Sure Jeanette will be backagain.
Jeanette (30:18):
And for folks if they wanna learn more about Javas
livestock conservancy.org we dohave an extensive Java page and
you can see one of Deborah'sbeautiful Java roosters there.
And learn what we do about rarebreeds.
'cause the black job is oneamong almost 200 breeds that we
work with.
Deborah (30:38):
Yes.
And I must say this before wefinish livestock Conservancy has
been just a huge help for me.
I found out when did it start inthe seventies, Jeanette.
I found out about it aboutseven,
Jeanette (30:49):
right after the bicentennial.
Yes.
Deborah (30:51):
I found out about it in the late seventies and became a
member.
And just through the years, theyhave just been just a huge
advocate and instrumental in megrowing and learning about this.
So I just urge people to.
Check out that website and be amember so they can, be a part of
it.
It's critical, I think.
Jennifer (31:13):
All right, then I'm a member.
Deborah (31:14):
Cool.
Jennifer (31:19):
All right.
Thank you ladies.
Deborah (31:20):
Thank you for asking me.
Nice to see you, Jeanette.
Jeanette (31:24):
Good to meet you.
If I could see you, but I canhear you.
Deborah (31:27):
I understand.
No worries.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
Jeanette (31:31):
Bye.
Welcome back Poultry nerds.
I'm Jennifer and Carrie is MIA.
Today he is out on a deliveryand didn't make it back.
So I'm here with Jeanette fromthe Livestock Conservancy and
Deborah from High Ground Farm.
We had a request to discussBlack Javas, and so I invited
(00:24):
you guys here to tell us allabout'em.
And quite honestly, I had neverheard of them before, so it was
news to me to get that email.
So how are you guys doing today?
Jeanette (00:38):
I'm
Jennifer (00:38):
great.
Jeanette (00:39):
Doing great.
Yeah, always happy to talkchickens.
Jennifer (00:45):
So Jeanette is returning.
She was here.
We talked about turkeys.
Did we talk about turkeys?
Jeanette (00:54):
I think.
I think so.
I don't know.
We, we went, of course,
Jennifer (01:00):
we went through down some rabbit holes on your trip
across Europe.
I do remember that.
And somehow we got off on somepigs on an Indian reservation
too.
Like we just totally went toleft field.
I remember all of that stuff.
But Debra, it's nice to meetyou.
Can you tell us about yourselfand where you are and all that
good stuff?
Deborah (01:19):
Sure.
I live in the middle part ofNorth Carolina and have been
here for a long time.
I started with Java Chickens in1999 and it all spun out of an
article that was in Mother EarthNews at the time about the Java
chicken, which they thought wasextinct.
But they discovered, some in theMidwest and Garfield Farm.
(01:43):
Collaborated with the museum oflet's see, what's it called?
Jeanette, correct me if I'mwrong.
Industry,
Jeanette (01:49):
museum of Industry.
Deborah (01:51):
It it was science and industry.
Jeanette (01:53):
Science and industry.
Deborah (01:54):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah.
I always get it mixed up.
And I became involved with thatproject and got lots of job at
chickens, chicks from them andhave kept clothes flock since.
I still have them.
They're lovely.
They're just wonderful breed.
I had chickens before that, butthere's nothing that compares in
my mind.
(02:14):
They're the best for me.
Jennifer (02:17):
I'm looking at a picture of'em in the standard of
perfection, and honestly, theylook a lot like a black
orpington.
Deborah (02:25):
Yes.
Similar.
Jeanette, you can speak on thisas well, but from my
understanding, they were one ofthe original chickens brought in
from the, from Asia.
Not sure exactly of the origin,but there are people that think
that probably from the OliveJava but can't be certain about
that, but probably the early 18hundreds, perhaps earlier they
(02:46):
were home.
Yeah.
Go ahead
Jeanette (02:49):
and we're not really sure what the connection is to,
to Asia.
It the thing about the Javacompared to the Orpington is
there's a big difference intheir profile.
And Javas have the longest backof the American class.
And so if you look at them in anorpington.
(03:12):
Side profiles, the Javas, you'lljust see these super long backs
and they look completelydifferent.
And they also have different legcolor and there's some other
differences too.
But the Javas they're our secondoldest American breed.
The only animal that's beenrecorded earlier than the Javas
is the Dominique Chicken.
(03:33):
And they've been around for along time.
They say as early as 1835, butthey think that they could have
been around even longer thanthat.
So they've really got aconnection with American history
here.
Deborah (03:48):
Yes, that's, I think that's a very good point.
And, for me as a homesteaderand, or homestead life liver the
non-aggression particularly ofthe roosters and the docile of
the hens.
And the hands of, nurturing justinnate personalities, just makes
them such a nice bird to haveround.
(04:10):
So yeah, that's
Jeanette (04:10):
important for homesteaders.
Deborah (04:13):
I agree.
And this is my hypothesis,certainly nothing to prove it,
but I believe that because theywere around the house and,
probably free ranging for a longtime, the ones that were
aggressive just, made it to thetable and they were naturally
weeded out.
I've had Java of course all thistime, and I've kept as many as
(04:33):
six or seven roosters at a time.
I have never had an aggressiverooster.
I should knock on woodsomewhere, but, and they have,
great long spurs, they defendtheir flock.
They're vigilant with theirflock, but not with humans.
I've just not seen that in mineanyway.
Jennifer (04:52):
Why do you think they're on the endangered list?
'cause that's where they are,right?
Jeanette (04:58):
Yeah, they're critically endangered right now.
And the last census we did, wefound only 327 breeding birds in
the US And a lot of that has todo with the museum of Science
and Industry getting outta Java.
'cause they used to produce alot of Javas.
Because they had the.
(05:18):
The incubator that people couldwatch, chicks being hatched at
the museum.
And when they stopped that thatreally put a dent in Java
populations.
'cause prior to that the censuswe did in 2015 we actually had
found almost 2000 breeding birdsout there.
And then it plummeted to 327after that.
(05:42):
It's, it goes to show you thatwhen you put most of your eggs
in one basket, if that basketdisappears you can get a breed
can get in big trouble quick.
Yeah.
It was unfortunate, but, there'ssome living history museums now
that are interested in havingbreeding groups and, that's got
me excited because that not onlyhelps, create new breeding
(06:06):
groups, but it exposes the breedto new audience that maybe had
never heard of them before.
So that's really exciting.
Deborah (06:15):
Yes, I believe raising awareness and just getting the
name out there and the diresituation they're in had will
really help.
There was a time that I.
Was involved selling eggs andother produce to Whole Foods
market and just talking aboutJavas and just, making people
aware of their plight and theirrole in history, I think.
(06:38):
Beneficial.
So anything we can do to raiseawareness, I believe is
important.
Back to your, I'm sorry, goahead.
There's a delay.
I was gonna saying it's,
Jeanette (06:48):
and it's, thanks to Deborah.
We were able to get Old WorldWisconsin a start in Javas and,
I drove all the way to Nashvilleand the Wisconsin folks drove
down to Nashville to meet me toget a bunch of chicks that we
had hatched out from Deborah'seggs.
And they're super excited aboutthe Java.
And in their gift shop, theyhave a.
(07:10):
Custom developed Java chickenstuffy that they sell.
Yeah, it's quite cute.
Even has correct leg color, soOf course.
Deborah (07:22):
But of course,
Jeanette (07:23):
yes, of course.
Deborah (07:24):
I think you know, the interest like the the Amer, what
is it, the American Java Clubthere's a lot of interest there.
I get lots of questions fromthem and people of course, that
want hatching eggs.
And so every time a grouphatches eggs, there's a
celebration.
That they have expanded thenumbers a bit.
But you are back to yourquestion, Jennifer, about, while
(07:47):
they fell out of favor, I thinkthere's multiple reasons, and
one is that they grow veryslowly.
Other chickens are mature andready for the table at about six
to eight weeks, and Javas are, afraction of that weight.
They just grow very slowly.
And then also they have blackfeathers and they're very
difficult to remove for sellingthe meat because the pin
(08:09):
feathers of course, remain andlook dark and people.
Don't like that.
So I think there's reasons thatit fell out of favor with
industrialized chickenproduction.
Jennifer (08:21):
So I would, I raised standard orpingtons, so we're
looking at what, nine, 10 monthsfor them to be roughly full
size.
Is that about the same for theJavas?
Deborah (08:33):
Probably yes.
They start laying at about 24weeks, maybe 26 weeks in
contrast to some of the moremainstream birds that might be
laying at 20.
And then table size, if you weregrowing them from meat, I would
guess yes, probably nine or 10months old.
What would you think Jeanette?
Jeanette (08:55):
It, it depends what meat product you want because
you can butcher'em at any age.
But you need to ask yourself, doyou want a fryer?
Do you want a roaster, do youwant a broiler?
So it, it depends.
Typically I find with the slowergrowing birds, that if you want
a fryer which you can cook witha higher heat methods.
(09:16):
You could probably get a fryerby about, 14 weeks.
Then if you wanna get a nicetable bird, like a broiler or a
roaster, now you're talking 18to 20 weeks.
And the roaster may be a bit.
Later, I think that the Javaroosters really come into their
own after they're a year old.
Maybe by the time they're twoyears old.
(09:38):
And the thing that I've foundreally fascinating is at least
in Deborah's hands, they'repretty long lived.
They're, and they're productivevery long too.
Yes.
Yeah.
If you go to our website and goto our Java page, you'll see a
picture of one of her beautifulroosters, and I think he was
probably four or five years oldwhen I took that picture.
(10:01):
And he still looks like acocker.
He just looks beautiful nicelyfleshed out.
And you'll see that super longback that they have.
Yes.
Yeah.
The other thing that's been abit of a challenge with Javas
is, the a PA recognizes only twocolor varieties, the black and
the modeled.
(10:22):
But people like to play withcolor and a lot of times you'll
get white sports or what we callAuburn sports.
And, dang, if the whites aren'tlike the biggest ones, it's
always those off-color birdsthat are the, end up being the
biggest.
But they're not a PA varieties.
(10:44):
And for the conservancies work,we're really concentrate on the
black and the modeled and theblack in part.
Is challenging'cause peopleagain, color and so they migrate
towards the model more, whichleaves the black Java.
The because as Deborah saidcleaning them when you're
(11:06):
processing can be a bitchallenging if they've got black
pin feathers.
The funny thing is, back in theday before industrialization.
People with black chickens wouldboast about how clean their
carcasses was because were,because they were black chickens
and they wanted to ensure theircustomers that they were
(11:27):
beautifully dressed and thatthey took pride in making a a
beautiful table bird with theseblack feathered birds.
But the models definitely aredoing better than the Black
Javas.
And I was able to encourage oldWorld, Wisconsin to concentrate
on the black variety since,there's not a ton of folks, but
(11:50):
I will say, the, the Facebookgroup that, that Deborah had
mentioned the Java Breeders ofAmerica.
There are nearly 600 people inthat group.
Oh yeah.
Deborah (12:03):
Huge interest.
Yes.
And they all boas when theyhatch eggs, they all show their
chicks and boast on, how manythey hatched and how they look
and all.
So I'm real pleased.
I've met some lovely peoplethere that now, we talk on the
phone now, so it's a greatoutreach and a great way to
raise awareness about the Javachicken.
Jeanette (12:23):
Yeah, it would be nice.
Nice to see more in on the showside of things.
'cause I go to some of thebigger poultry shows in the US
and you don't see that manyJavas and, in order,
Deborah (12:36):
no, go ahead.
Go ahead.
I don't wanna
Jeanette (12:38):
garner interest.
Even more.
I think it would be helpful ifwe could get some really good
quality Java on the show floor.
Deborah (12:46):
Yes, the first, maybe the second year that I had them,
I entered them into the NorthCarolina State Fair and of
course, one, all the ribbons ofcourse, because they were the
only job was there.
But after that I became quiteworried about them picking up
some disease and so did not takethem back.
And I think that, for me,because I take biosecurity quite
(13:09):
seriously, that for me has beena barrier.
Perhaps, in the future that'llbe something they'll have some
strategies to work around thatissue.
Jennifer (13:19):
So tell me about the breed club.
How active and open is that?
Deborah (13:24):
Do you mean on Facebook?
Jennifer (13:25):
Just tell, is there a breed club?
Deborah (13:28):
Yes.
There's the, what did you callit?
Jeanette Java.
Jeanette (13:31):
That was the Facebook group.
I don't think there's an actuala PA sanction club.
I don't think so either.
But Facebook group is the nextbest thing.
And and it seems to be a veryactive community there.
Jennifer (13:46):
Yes.
So one of the things I'm lookingat in the SOP.
Is they have black shanks, butthey have yellow feet.
Is that right?
Exactly.
Deborah (13:56):
Yes.
So they have lovely black tops.
The legs are black, the skin,and then the tops of the feet
are black and the toenails areblack.
But then underneath, when youturn it over, the soles of the
feet are yellow.
Jennifer (14:10):
How hard is that as a breeder to maintain that?
Deborah (14:13):
It's tricky.
Jennifer (14:14):
And I'm always
Deborah (14:15):
looking at feet.
Yes.
And then there'll be one thatpops up that's a little pink,
and you think, where did thatcome from?
So then that one is set aside asa laying hand and I won't breed
her.
So I've run into interestingthings through the years.
I've had out of the black job ofthe solid black Java, I had two
white ones, solid white ones uphere.
(14:37):
I've had no models.
I've had a couple of Auburns.
But that was unusual.
Their feathers were black, buthad just a little bit of a red
sheen to those, so I gave thoseto a friend for laying hands.
So yes, as a breeder you have toalways be aware and.
Quickly to separate and, choosewhich ones to breed.
(14:58):
Jeanette has been out severaltimes now to help me go through
the flock and choose which onesare best.
But back to your point,Jeanette, about how long they
live, I've had one, one or twolived to be 12 years old.
And they were quite, they did,and they still lay an occasional
egg.
And I've had roosters as old asseven or eight.
(15:19):
So they're really hardy breed.
Jeanette (15:22):
Yeah.
They're really a great utilitybreed.
Jennifer (15:25):
The reason why I asked about the Yellow Feet is I was
raising Cogens for a while, andit was hard to maintain that
yellow skin with the blackpigment always wanting to come
in.
Is that maybe a reason why thebreeders are shying away from
it, just for the difficulty?
Deborah (15:44):
I don't, I can't speak to that.
I don't know.
Jeanette, what do you think?
Jeanette (15:49):
I think it's it's just, it's a solid blackbird.
And the trends that I've seen ofpeople like color and they like
something different.
And it's really put intojeopardy a lot of these solid
colored birds.
The thing is, the blacks, whenthe sun hits them it is like a
(16:10):
rainbow.
It's just so beautiful to seethese birds.
In the sunlight and you can seesome of that green sheen coming
through on our webpage.
It's just really stunning.
And it's not a flat black, it's,it's got that iridescent green
to it that's just spectacular,thick of Cayuga ducks, that
(16:31):
just, yeah, beautiful.
And I think really underrated.
And and that may be one of thereasons why there, there are no
hatcheries that.
Offer Javas just becausethey're, busy selling rainbow
layers and, real coloredchickens and stuff that makes
(16:51):
your eyes pop.
But, there's something to besaid for a solid black bird with
the green sheen.
They're just spectacular.
One thing I want wanted tomention before it jumps outta my
head.
We're still on the lookout forold lines of Java and.
We actually managed to find alady out in I think it was South
(17:12):
Dakota.
The Mrs.
Schuler who happened to fallunder our radar when we were
doing a census.
And she had no idea.
Javas were rare'cause her familyhad.
Java since before World War ii,and they just always had them.
And she was very kind enough toshare some hatching eggs with us
(17:37):
so that we could get the birdsinto some other hands.
And it wasn't long after thatwe, hatched out the chicks and
put them into other hands that Igot a phone call from her one
day and she said they're allgone.
And she had a predator come inand killed all her chickens.
Oh, how horrible.
And it was awful.
(17:58):
And but because we hatched awhole bunch here in North
Carolina.
We could go back to the peoplethat we gave the chicks to and
we actually were able to sendeggs back to Mrs.
Schuler.
And Deb, maybe you can fill insome of the gaps.
'cause you were trying to trackdown her chickens and I think
you managed to find some more,didn't you?
Deborah (18:20):
No, that was a different line.
This was a line I was trying tofind the line of model Javas
that were at the.
College of Agriculture there inPittsburgh?
Oh, okay.
Back years ago.
Yeah.
And'cause I love them.
They were so big.
And so the personality, thosewere the
Jeanette (18:36):
Schuler, those were the Schuler birds?
Deborah (18:39):
No, I was told it was Eileen Jensen.
Oh gosh.
Sorry.
That is correct.
That's okay.
That's okay.
So I talked to Hillary.
Who was the firm manager at thetime that I got them from the
college, and she said they werefrom Eileen Jensen in the
Midwest.
So I found her and talked to heron the phone multiple times.
(19:02):
We had hour long conversations.
She's in her eighties.
Her husband had passed away andshe could no longer manage the
flock, so she sold them tovarious neighbors and to ideal
nursery.
So that's where my, I went downthe rabbit hole looking for them
and found some I called all theneighbors.
(19:25):
I called her to the hatcheries.
She wasn't a hundred percentsure of the name of the
hatchery, so I had to callmultiple hatcheries and did get
some, but they were not thesame.
They were not the same.
And I was very unhappy withthem.
Yeah.
Jeanette (19:42):
And the latest census we did showed none of the
hatcheries had them.
So that block gone.
Deborah (19:49):
Yes.
And then back to their sheen.
I have to comment, I've readthat the sheen of the green on
the black feathers as emeraldbeetle green, like a June bug
would have that shine.
And I think it's very, it isvery much like that.
Their feathers are beautiful andthe roosters, they're, they grow
these very long tail feathers.
(20:11):
At the top, that flutter in thewind.
They're quite beautiful birds.
So I think I have some postedmaybe on my website.
If not, I'll, my blog.
If not, I'll post some of themost recent ones so you can see
them.
But they're just incrediblyphotogenic.
They the pictures always turnout nice yeah.
Jennifer (20:32):
Okay.
So if somebody wanted to getinto them, who would they
contact?
Jeanette (20:39):
I think reaching out to the Java group would be a
good start.
We do have an online breedersand products directory so you
might be able to find breedersthrough that.
But if there aren't any that areclose to you on that directory,
then I would definitely reachout to the Facebook group and,
put a post.
(21:01):
You're looking for'em in acertain area, and you might be
lucky enough to find somebodythat's that's working with them.
I would say that the biggestthing is have patients, they're
critically endangered.
They're not easy to come by, andit may be that you try and make
arrangements in the fall or thewinter to try and get hatching
(21:23):
eggs in the spring.
I, I would suggest starting inthe fall, yeah.
Just to make sure that you goteverything lined up.
Because there is increasinginterest, but they're still
critically endangered, so veryhard to come by.
And if you really want them,just know you, you may have to
travel to get'em, yes.
Jennifer (21:44):
Listening to you guys talk about'em, it sounds like
there's maybe only a handful oflines in the whole United
States.
Deborah (21:53):
I
Jeanette (21:53):
don't
Deborah (21:53):
know how many would know.
Jeanette (21:56):
Yeah.
We haven't done a comprehensivecensus.
Of bloodlines in a long time.
We are taking on a new census in2026.
The conservancy is committed todoing a census of poultry every
five years.
And it's every five yearsbecause it's a bear of a project
to try and get done.
(22:17):
'Cause there are no registriesand, you've got to work through
networks of people to try andreach, the folks that you need
to be.
Reaching out to this upcomingcensus.
We are actually developing ateam of people within the a PA
community.
And what I'm trying to do isline up people that expertise in
(22:44):
a certain class of chickens.
Like I've got somebody that is avery active ao breeder.
She does shemos and when you'rereading within a certain class,
you get to know who's got whatand who's doing what.
And I've got someone for theEnglish class and a person for
waterfowl and I'm continuing tolook for people within the other
(23:08):
classes.
We can all tackle it togetherand hopefully get most
comprehensive census that wewill have to date.
But again it takes a lot of timeand a lot of effort, and I'm
pleased to say the a PA let usofficially form an a PA sanction
committee for census.
(23:30):
So they've put their backingbehind the effort.
And the important thing aboutcensus is it guides.
Conservation efforts for thenext five years and the census
helps us to identify what breedsor what color varieties are in
big trouble.
And we try to bring awareness sothat people that maybe they
(23:53):
didn't know that black Javawere.
Becoming really rare.
We've discovered in our lastcensus that we've actually lost
a bunch of color varietieswithin breeds just because no
one's kept up with it.
Yeah, we're looking forward tothe census and we already have a
sponsor for it.
For folks that are out there andhave breeding flocks, keep your
(24:16):
eyes open for the set, thenotification that the census is
on, we'll probably launch itnext February and it'll probably
carry on for four to six months.
And then and then we'll compileall the data and we usually
publish it with a PA and on ourwebsite and anybody who will
listen to us, we will talk aboutcensus numbers.
(24:38):
Really important work coming upfor poultry.
Jennifer (24:42):
That sounds good.
Deborah, do you wanna tell usabout your website and your blog
and anything else you have goingon?
Deborah (24:51):
The blog is sadly neglected, but it has been going
on for about 10 years.
So you can go back and read,some of the archival, pieces
that I started in the beginning,which, and it goes, it's about
the farm.
So there's various things goingon here.
Java chickens are a big part ofit.
It's all part of sustainableliving and preservation for me.
(25:13):
The house that I live in andwhere we live is, was built in
1840, so it's on the nationalregistry.
So that's part of preservingarchitecture and history the
livestock.
Not all is in the conservancybut the Java chickens certainly
are, but I also have angoragoats just because I adore them.
(25:34):
And I spin the wool.
I spin the wool and make thingsout of that.
So I have connections with,textile artists and that kind of
thing.
I have tours here.
And I have events and things andalways, I'm always talking about
Java chickens.
I'm always talking up Javachickens.
And so people are always sointerested.
I think that's a critical piece.
(25:54):
Again, I've mentioned before ofraising awareness and talking
about what wonderful homesteadbirds they are and how they're
part of our history.
So the blog is high groundfarm.com.
So you can see it there.
It's through the years become abit different, but people would
be able to see chicks and soforth there.
Okay.
(26:14):
And of course there's a Facebookpage for High Ground Farm, and
then there's a personal page,Facebook page for Deborah
Underwood Brown.
And then there's Instagram ofcourse, high ground farmer.
But all of these are justchronicling the going zone here,
but Java chickens certainly area huge part of it.
And do you sell eggs and birds?
(26:36):
I do.
I do.
I, again, the ones that are notbreed standard, I sell as laying
just regular laying hands.
And people are just honored toget them.
And I think when they know thehistory and they know the
numbers are.
So rare.
I think it makes them feel,quite honored to take care of
them and they're stewards of thebreed.
(26:57):
So yes, I do and I sell hatchingeggs and people are interested.
I keep a running list of peoplethat want them.
And it's an ongoing thing to tryto hang on to this beautiful
breed.
Awesome.
Jeanette (27:08):
Debra, you do have to mention your artwork.
Debra's quite the artist andshe's done some beautiful
paintings.
Deborah (27:16):
Oh, thank you.
I do I paint trees, a lot oftrees, but I also paint Java
chickens.
So I have note cards of thingslike Java chickens decorating
their Christmas trees.
And and it takes someimagination because I had to go
down to the barn and look atthem and sketch their faces and
so forth.
But then I had to figure outwhat kind of a tree would a Java
chicken have and what kind ofdecorations would they put on
(27:39):
that tree?
So that took some doing.
But anyway, so their Christmascards with Java chickens and
there's Java chickens.
I wrote a book actually, if Ican find a way to publish the
thing, a children's book, but,and all the watercolor
paintings, of course, areoriginal.
I just paint the things I likeand sometimes other people like
them too.
Jennifer (27:59):
If we hang ornaments in the shape of chickens, then
chickens would hang ornaments inthe shape of people.
Deborah (28:04):
I don't know about that.
They sometimes, I don't thinkthey liked me at all but they
did.
I decided they would hangornaments of food because,
chickens are so food oriented,so they have, they did ornaments
of little vegetables and littlefruits.
And things like that.
That's what their ornamentsended up being.
But maybe I should do littlepeople.
You're right.
Maybe I should.
Jennifer (28:27):
That sounds awesome.
It sounds like you have a nicelittle farm going on.
Deborah (28:31):
It's a, it is just a way of life.
I've lived this way for 50years.
I just came out of the closet,just about 30 years ago.
'cause I used to, I was inmedicine and I would be in the
middle of some big academicthing.
And people would be talkingabout what they did the weekend,
and how they went to the malland they did this and that.
And I'd say you won't believeit.
I was able to spin and I wouldtell'em what I was spinning on
the wheel and what I did on thefarm, and they thought I was
(28:53):
insane and they would just driftaway from me.
But about thir 20, maybe 20years ago, I became really in.
My sons were like, oh mom, thisis so cool.
Tell my, their friends wouldcome over and they'd say, we
can't believe you do this stuff.
It was very hip, and so all of asudden I can talk about it and
(29:13):
I'm it's cool, but it didn't,used to be, it wasn't cool in
the nineties, but it is ainteresting way of life.
But I've lived this way a verylong time.
So
Jennifer (29:23):
Do you eat your birds?
Deborah (29:25):
I, we do if I can help find, I can't process them
myself.
I have this, I just can't.
So if I can get somebody else todo that for me, yes, absolutely.
Yes, they make lovely, it makesa lovely broth.
There is no broth like it tocook a chicken, very long.
And I'm sorry.
And it and and it that makes akind of a gelatinous.
(29:48):
Thick, gelatinous rich chickenbroth.
So it's great.
Jennifer (29:53):
Awesome.
All right.
I have thoroughly enjoyed this.
Ladies.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Deborah (30:00):
I've enjoyed it too.
I'm sorry that the camera didn'twork, but but you might find a
little picture of me somewhereon Facebook.
I usually avoid the camera, so
Jennifer (30:10):
That's all right.
We just post the audio anyway.
Cool.
Alright.
Tell me and.
Sure Jeanette will be backagain.
Jeanette (30:18):
And for folks if they wanna learn more about Javas
livestock conservancy.org we dohave an extensive Java page and
you can see one of Deborah'sbeautiful Java roosters there.
And learn what we do about rarebreeds.
'cause the black job is oneamong almost 200 breeds that we
work with.
Deborah (30:38):
Yes.
And I must say this before wefinish livestock Conservancy has
been just a huge help for me.
I found out when did it start inthe seventies, Jeanette.
I found out about it aboutseven,
Jeanette (30:49):
right after the bicentennial.
Yes.
Deborah (30:51):
I found out about it in the late seventies and became a
member.
And just through the years, theyhave just been just a huge
advocate and instrumental in megrowing and learning about this.
So I just urge people to.
Check out that website and be amember so they can, be a part of
it.
It's critical, I think.
Jennifer (31:13):
All right, then I'm a member.
Deborah (31:14):
Cool.
Jennifer (31:19):
All right.
Thank you ladies.
Deborah (31:20):
Thank you for asking me.
Nice to see you, Jeanette.
Jeanette (31:24):
Good to meet you.
If I could see you, but I canhear you.
Deborah (31:27):
I understand.
No worries.
Bye.
Love you.
Bye.
Jeanette (31:31):
Bye.
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