February 20, 2025 • 37 mins
Join Jennifer Bryant of Bryant's Roost and Carey Blackmon of Double R Farms in this engaging episode featuring Gina from Wrather Farms, as they delve into the fascinating world of sex-linked traits in poultry. Discover how to identify and utilize these genetic traits to create auto-sexing breeds, simplifying chick sexing and enhancing flock management. Whether you're a seasoned poultry enthusiast or a curious newcomer, this discussion provides valuable insights into poultry genetics and breeding strategies. Tune in to enhance your understanding of sex-linked traits and their practical applications in poultry keeping.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:00):
Welcome, Poultry Nerds.
(00:01):
We have one of our specialguests back, Gina from Wrather
Farms.
We have had her on before, butwe have a new topic we're going
to talk about today.
Welcome, Gina.
Hey, guys.
Nice to have you back again.
Thank you.
Always awesome to be here.
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(00:42):
out.
Jennifer (00:44):
So we actually got a request.
Carey, you got it somehow.
You sent it to me.
Somebody wanted information onauto sexing and sex sling.
Carey (00:55):
Yup.
Jennifer (00:56):
Yup.
And I was like, racked my brainsfor three days and I'm like, Oh,
I can't.
I don't know.
What do I do?
Who do I call?
And I was like, Tina knows.
Tina to the rescue.
Heck
Gina (01:11):
yeah.
Time for me to talk about it.
Jennifer (01:14):
You have let's first define some stuff.
There's a big difference betweenauto sexing and sex linked.
And I think people sometimesdon't understand that and they
use those terms interchangeably.
Gina (01:28):
Yeah, so an autosexing breed is just that.
It is a breed that breeds truegeneration after generation and
you're able to tell the sex ofthe chicks at hatch based on
their color and their traits.
A sex link is a cross of twobreeds and the differences in
(01:51):
the chick color at hatch onlyhappen in that first generation.
If you breed them forward theability to sex the chicks is not
repeatable.
Jennifer (02:02):
Okay, so let's talk about autosexing first.
So there are no autosexingvariations in Coturnix quail
that we know of.
Nobody has found any yet.
So that kind of rules that partout.
So you have autosexing chickens.
So let's list off some varietiesof chickens that people will be
(02:24):
familiar with.
That would be autosexing.
Gina (02:27):
The most common autosexing breeds are the breeds that are
based on the wild type color.
Your black breasted, red, creelplus barring, which makes the
creel.
And then in the case of theBielefelder, they are cuckoo red
partridge.
You also have your clemethrocks, you're also known as a
(02:53):
barred rock, and your dominiquesto an extent.
So they are barred breeds onblack.
But they are autosexing in the,to the extent that you can
pretty well look at theirheadspots, and the males will
have a larger white headspotthan the females will.
Jennifer (03:10):
Now I don't have them, not familiar with them, but
aren't leg bars autosexing too?
Gina (03:15):
They are.
They would fall in the creelcategory.
They're built on wild type, soif it's a brown bird with
barring, It's going to be wildtype.
If it's a black bird withbarring, then it's going to be
built on extended black.
Jennifer (03:29):
Anything else, any other breeds you can think of
off the top of your head?
Gina (03:34):
Some say that the Welsimer is auto sexing, but they're not
really auto sexing bydefinition.
There are breeders that haveselected those traits in their
line that makes them easier toidentify male versus female, but
they are not.
It's the classical auto sexingbreed.
Jennifer (03:56):
Not to divert off of our topic too terribly much
because we never do that, butisn't Wellsummer's one of those
breeds that people tend todouble mate the serious
breeders?
Gina (04:09):
I don't know.
I'm not a real hip on theWellsummer as a breed.
Jennifer (04:15):
Me either.
It's just one of those littletidbits in the back of my head.
I'm thinking.
I read that somewhere, and somaybe that might create what
you're talking about.
Gina (04:24):
Yeah, the more I learn about different breeds, the more
I learn that there are a lot ofbreeds that probably should be
bred in male and female lines.
It wouldn't surprise me.
Jennifer (04:36):
Okay, so the ones that you have are the Bielefelders.
Yes, that are autosexing.
Okay.
So let's talk about in turkeysI'm not up on turkey genetics,
but to my knowledge, I don'tthink that you can autosex
turkeys At least I've neverheard of it.
Have you?
Gina (04:56):
No.
Jennifer (04:57):
No.Carey, you're being really quiet Do you know of any
turkeys that can be autosexed?
Carey (05:04):
I'm sitting here I'm thinking about all the different
ones that I've seen And I, Ican't,
Gina (05:14):
If it was possible, Frank Reese would have mentioned it in
that seminar back in Knoxville,right?
Yes,
Carey (05:20):
that is true.
Because there was a lot of stuffthat was talked about at that
seminar and that was not.
Gina (05:28):
Yeah.
The autosexing kind of dependson, you'll notice, it depends on
the barring gene.
And if you have a true barringgene in quail, and I've seen you
talk about, your barred quail.
If you have a true barring geneand it lives on the Z
chromosome, then, maybe Anautosexing variety of quail
(05:51):
would be possible.
You'd have to pair it with theright color base, perhaps.
Food for thought.
Jennifer (05:58):
That would be a Brie project.
I'll just send her some and shecan figure it out.
Yeah.
Okay, as far as ducks areconcerned, I have Welsh
Harlequins and they are actuallyautosexing.
I don't raise any other kind ofducks.
I've never have, so I'm surethere probably is something else
out there.
But I just know about them andtheir auto sexing and, I don't,
Carey (06:22):
one of them's face or their beak is different or
something like that.
Jennifer (06:27):
Yeah, their beaks are different beaks.
Their bills are different athatch.
They're different colors.
Gina (06:33):
Yeah.
And, I think the popularity ofthe auto sexing breed and the
sex links, the more we get intothis homesteading movement, the
more important it is.
And the more, the homesteaderscater to the people that live in
town that are slowly beingallowed chickens, they have
(06:54):
restrictions on, we canabsolutely cannot take any
chance on any roosters and thatis.
I dare say half of my customerbase are people that tell me I
have an HOA.
I can't have a rooster and theywant to support local.
They don't want to order from ahatchery.
(07:15):
They don't want to ship theirchicks.
They don't want to buy from thebig box store.
And so the sex link and the autosexing breeds are amazing.
Jennifer (07:25):
So would you agree with me when I said that to keep
the auto sexing traits.
Clean and crisp going forward inyour generations.
You have to carefully select forit.
Gina (07:41):
Of course.
You're a steward of any breedthat you have.
One of the things that any autosexing breed is going to pride
itself on is the ability to sexat hatch.
I know when I first got into theBielefelder, there were, there
was a lot of talk about onlyselecting the clearly marked
chicks.
(08:02):
And the reality is those clearlymarked chicks are also going to
grow up to be your chicks withthe best barring expression.
Whether you pick the chick athatch or you pick the chick in
adulthood.
You're invariably going toselect for the best sparring.
Jennifer (08:20):
So I do the same thing with the ducks.
I just got my ducks local.
I don't show them.
They're not like anybody's lineor anything.
And so I've just been workingfor a few years to clean them
up.
And obviously they have someissues in there.
So I get orange bills, which isnot, that's an automatic cull
out of a breeding program.
If it's sex, if it hatch, if thebills aren't the right color, or
(08:45):
you can't automatically tellwhat the sex is right then, they
actually get moved to adifferent brooder as just a pet
quality, or I call them skeetereaters, because I just put them
out on the pond to eatmosquitoes.
But they're not ever going to bepart of a breeding program
because you've got to select forthat trait to go forward.
Gina (09:10):
So do you wing band your Skeeter Eaters so you don't pull
them into the breeding flocklater?
Girl,
Jennifer (09:16):
you just, have you ever tried to band a duck?
Negative.
Carey (09:21):
No.
So I would like to watchJennifer try to band a duck.
Jennifer (09:25):
So it's totally different.
Those little webbed feet, theycan shrink them up smaller than
the diameter of their leg andyou spend all that time cuddling
them and holding them andputting that little zip tie on
their leg and you set them downand they just look at you and
they pull that little leg up andwatch it just fall off and you
(09:46):
just want to smack
Gina (09:47):
them.
Oh my, what about wing bands?
Can you wing band them?
Jennifer (09:52):
I'm not comfortable wingbanding right at hatch.
I usually wait like a week ortwo.
I can't see that close and Idon't know sometimes this might
just be a waste of a wingband,if they don't make it kind of
thing.
So all I do is I just dodifferent brooders.
I mean you got to break them upanyway, so why not just break
them up that way.
(10:13):
And then you can band them, whenthey're ready to be mixed back
up.
Yeah.
But I didn't even sell any lastyear.
I just turned them all out to beskeeter eaters.
There's 69 of them out thererunning around right now.
Gina (10:27):
Good Lord.
That's a lot of poop.
Jennifer (10:29):
David counted them about a week ago and he's we
have.
69 ducks.
I was like, don't count them.
We don't count ducks aroundhere.
Gina (10:40):
I'm impressed that he could count that many moving.
Not that he could count thathigh.
That's not what I meant.
Carey (10:48):
But I'm just wondering, like, how David was that bored?
Was he that, was he reallycurious, like, how many ducks am
I feeding?
Jennifer (11:00):
Or, why do we have
Carey (11:02):
no mosquitoes?
Jennifer (11:04):
I will tell you that we do not have mosquitoes here
anymore.
They've eaten them all.
All right, so see we digressed alittle bit again.
Okay, so let's go back to ourthing.
So let's talk about sex linkedbecause that seems to be the
thing that hatcheries and likewhat you were talking about the
suburban homesteaders, they'rereally after, so people are
(11:25):
really maximizing their profitson these sex linked chickens.
So let's talk about how thathappens.
Gina (11:33):
Sure.
All right, chicken genetics.
So female chickens haveautosomes.
What is it?
39 autosome pairs of autosomes,autosomal chromosomes, and then
they have the sex chromosomes.
So females have a Z sexchromosome and a W.
sex chromosome, males have apair of Z chromosomes.
(11:57):
So there are some genes that youwill only find on the Z
chromosome.
And therefore, the female canonly carry or possess one copy.
All right?
That female lays an egg.
She's either going to pass her Zchromosome or her W chromosome.
(12:21):
Every time there's 50 50 shop.
If she passes her Z chromosome,that embryo and that egg will
develop into a male because ithas no choice, but to get.
A Z from the father.
So ZZ is male.
ZW is female.
Alright, so the geneticinformation that she possesses
(12:43):
on that Z chromosome, she willonly pass to her male offspring.
She cannot pass it to her femaleoffspring.
So let's say you have a barredrock, okay?
She has the barring gene.
She only has one copy becausethe barring gene lives on the Z
chromosome.
She's going to pass that barringgene to her sons.
(13:06):
And only her sons, she cannotpass it to her daughters.
So let's say we take that barredrock and we breed her to a.
Rhode Island red.
All right, her sons are going tohatch with a little spot on top
of their head, which indicatesthat they have the barring gene
(13:28):
and that they are male, herdaughters will not have a spot
on their head, and they will befemales, they will be black sex
links, and everybody's seen theterm, everybody's seen the bin
of them at tractor supply.
So that is how a black sex linkis made, is a barred hen to any
(13:50):
non barred rooster.
Jennifer (13:54):
And they're called sex linked because the gene that
we're manipulating to get whatwe want is on the sex linked
gene.
Gina (14:05):
Gene is linked to the sex of the chick.
Okay,
Carey (14:11):
so if you have a barred hen and a non barred rooster,
the dot will be roosters.
Correct.
Jennifer (14:27):
Now you do this at your farm, and you do zombies,
right?
Gina (14:32):
I do.
So zombies are a whole notherball of wax.
Of course! Yeah, zombies are alittle more complicated.
Most people use a white leghornhen.
under an I am Somani cock fortheir zombies.
(14:54):
And the reason why that works sowell is because you have two sex
linked genes at play here.
Your chicks are basically doublesex linked.
The white leghorn typicallyCareys the barring gene, and you
wouldn't know that becausethey're white, and it's hidden
(15:14):
under all that white.
The white lagrine also Careysanother sex linked gene called
the inhibitor of dermal melanin.
And this gene doesn't reallyplay into any other sex linked
hybrid, except when you breed itto an I.
M.
simani, whose identity dependson their dermal melanin being,
(15:38):
black, fully expressed.
And so when you take this henand she only passes her
inhibitor of dermal melanin, Andthe barring gene, which has a
dermal melanin inhibiting actionof its own, a very huge one.
You end up with little malesthat have pale colored legs,
(16:01):
combs, and waddles, and beaks.
You end up with females withdark legs, dark columns and
beaks.
It would appear that the femalesinherit the fibromelanism trait,
and that the males don't, butthat's not true.
Those two sex linked genes thatI mentioned almost completely
(16:24):
obscure any hint offibromyalgism in most of the
male chicks.
Jennifer (16:31):
Okay, so that was pretty complicated sounding.
So let me back up for just asecond.
Is the Iamsamani over the whiteleggern, is that the only way to
make a zombie or is theredifferent ways?
Gina (16:44):
There are different, you can use other dominant white
breeds for your hint.
But it always has to be an I amSomani cock over a white breed.
Let me okay.
Scratch that from the record.
Okay.
Because there are other ways todo it.
(17:05):
Yes, there are other ways tocreate a zombie.
Most of the dominant whitebreeds are yellow skinned or
white skinned breeds that carrythis inhibitor of dermal
melanin.
The one other breed thatimmediately comes to mind that
you can't use are the whitebreasts.
(17:28):
White breasts are usuallydominant white.
They do not have the barringgene But the dominant white is
key to creating a zombie.
You can create a zombie with thebreasts, but it will not be sex
linked.
Your males and your females willboth have dark legs, combs, and
(17:51):
beaks, and you cannot tell themas sex linked.
Jennifer (17:56):
Ooh, you just said something I did not know.
So just because it's zombiedoesn't mean it's a female or
sex linked, right?
See, for some reason I wasthinking zombies were
automatically sex linked.
Gina (18:11):
Most of them are, and there are some people that are
using the breasts to create,because you gotta admit, a male
zombie with that nice dark comb,waddles, dark legs, is
impressive.
So a lot of people are using thebreasts to create zombies that
are not sex links and cannot besexed at hatch, but produce some
(18:34):
really cool looking males.
Jennifer (18:37):
Okay, so for our listeners, they just need to
understand that just because theword zombie is used doesn't mean
they're automatically sexable athatch.
Gina (18:48):
Correct.
Jennifer (18:49):
Gotcha.
So I had seen somebody post thatshe was going to start buying
zombie eggs and sell and hatchthem and then sell the chicks as
sexed chicks and wanted to knowmy, or people's opinions.
It was a Facebook post and Isaid I would not do that because
that would be staking yourreputation on what the Breeder
(19:13):
was doing and yeah, and youdon't know So you just answered
that question for me in the backof my mind.
Gina (19:21):
Yeah, it totally depends on what they're using for their
hens and it also depends a greatdeal on the quality of the I am
Samani cock that they're usingover that because I have used
some I am Samani that Producesome really clear male versus
female and I've used some cocksthat I need to keep these chicks
(19:44):
around for a week and watch thembefore I can be confident on
sex.
Jennifer (19:50):
So again, scrupulous breeding pays off,
Carey (19:55):
correct?
There's a lot of people that, sowhen they look online they see
The prices of I am Somalis andthey think, Oh, I got a black
bird.
It's worth a hundred bucks.
But since we talked last time onthe podcast about that bird not
(20:20):
just my it's one of the snobbybreeds.
I'll say that because if youdon't have the right sheen in
the feathering and everything iscompletely dark, if there's any
red or anything like that.
That bird's a cold, but peopleare still wanting a hundred
(20:42):
bucks for it.
And I'm like, no, you don't knowwhat you have.
Jennifer (20:48):
Oh my gosh.
I have to tell y'all something.
So since she was on the showlast time I didn't know.
I didn't know they weren'tsupposed to have a sheen until
Gina told us last time.
And so now every time somebodyposts, they have these expensive
birds.
I'm like looking at them going.
I wouldn't use that one as myexample picture because there's
red in the comb or, there'ssomething going on there.
(21:10):
I would have never known.
Why does that bird
Carey (21:12):
have a white beak?
Yellow.
That ain't a 25 check.
Gina (21:19):
But I paid a thousand dollars for this breeding pair
and I have to sell all theoffspring I possibly can.
They're purebred, I promise.
Carey (21:28):
I hate to say this, I really do, because it's pretty
unfortunate as it relates topoultry as a whole, but there's
a lot of people out theregetting screwed.
Yeah.
Because they don't know.
Gina (21:43):
Yeah not just
Carey (21:45):
the scammers.
It's People say, oh, this one ofmy favorites.
This is an exhibition RhodeIsland red.
That thing ain't mahogany colorYeah, that's a red sex link.
That's been cleaned up a littlebit like
Jennifer (22:06):
Let's talk about what the hatcheries are doing because
they're making production birdsWith the sex link traits, which
I mean, I'm all for I meaneverybody there's a purpose for
everything We're not makingmoney We are not what did I get
called out yesterday?
Dragging out something.
So comets and red stars andwomen, queens, Isa browns.
Gina (22:31):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there's what, 18or 20 of them now, right?
Oodles and oodles.
And, you've, again, you've gotred sex links, which come under
a variety of names.
And then you've got your blacksex links, which somehow have.
Escaped all of the differentnames, everybody wants to put
their own stamp on their red sexlink.
(22:53):
So cackle uses a Rhode Islandwhite that isn't a Rhode Island
white.
It's like the Rhode Island reddebacle.
The Rhode Island white is whatwe use for our zombies.
from Cackle.
They're a single comb, and atrue Rhode Island White is a
rose comb.
They resemble nothing like aRhode Island Red.
(23:16):
Which, the true Rhode IslandWhite should have the same body
type as a Rhode Island Red.
But anyway, they use, Cackleuses their own version of a
Rhode Island White for theirCinnamon Queens.
Hoover Hatchery, what's HooverHatchery's red sex sling?
There's a red
Jennifer (23:33):
star.
Somebody has a red star.
Gina (23:35):
That may be theirs.
Yeah.
The golden comet is, some otherhatcheries.
They, they trademark all thesenames, but they're basically the
same bird.
They're high production.
Red cross to a high productionsilver base and silver is
another one of those sex linkedgenes.
(23:56):
The red sex links are typicallya Rhode Island red or a New
Hampshire cross to somethingcarrying the silver gene.
And again, that silver henPasses her silver gene only to
her sons and the little whitechicks They'll pluck out of the
hatching basket as males andthey'll ship out the little red
(24:18):
chicks as females
Jennifer (24:20):
and they have a purpose I mean you and I both
sell a lot of female chicks andI mean we end up eating the
roosters and I know you that youdo too we can handle the extra
roosters if people don't wantthem.
So we're not dogging on thepeople buying just the pullets.
(24:42):
That's not what we're doing now.
These are production breeds.
And so they're meant to lay alarge amount of eggs in the 1st,
what?
2 years.
And they serve a purpose butbuyers need to understand they,
they don't reproduce true atall.
They're just going to be hybridbackyard mixes if you breed
(25:03):
them.
Gina (25:03):
Yeah.
And they can be bred forward.
If you're a barnyard mix and youwant to let that, red sex link
sit on eggs and hatch them oryou want to shove her eggs under
your silky.
Go for it.
Yeah, all you can do is create aheartier chicken.
Jennifer (25:19):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, hybrids are best.
Gina (25:21):
Yeah
Jennifer (25:23):
But I just don't want I want to make sure people
understand that if you took anisobrown to an isobrown You're
not gonna get another isobrown
Gina (25:31):
Absolutely.
The one that I get asked aboutthe most is I shouldn't say the
most but frequently are thesapphire gems do you breed
Sapphire gems?
I'm looking for somebody thatbreeds Sapphire gems.
And if anybody tells you thatthey can sell you a Sapphire gem
and they didn't buy it andresell it directly from Hoover
(25:53):
Hatchery, they're not sellingyou a Sapphire gem.
Sapphire gem is another sexlink.
Mystic Morans.
Yep.
There's another sex link.
You're, your local homesteaderis not going to be able to
reproduce those birds.
Know what you're buying beforeyou decide, you want a specific
(26:14):
chicken breed and find out, isit even a breed or is it a first
generation hybrid?
Jennifer (26:21):
Yes some of the best things I ever sold were they,
they weren't sex link.
This is just another digressionin our conversation.
But for hybrid, it was acoaching over in Orpington.
They were just beautiful birdsand they had the best
personalities from both breeds.
Nice.
People ate them up.
I don't do it.
I might do it this year.
(26:41):
I've thought about doing itagain, but Hybrids are
fantastic.
They're very healthy.
Yes.
All right.
So let's divert over to quailfor just a minute I know that
you don't do quail, but sincewe're talking about the sex
linked I have a cage set up todo auto sexing at hatch and the
(27:03):
chicks are Egyptian hens and thephenotype of pharaoh is the
male, meaning the brown ones aremales, the gold ones are
females.
And you do that by manipulatingthe sex linked genes.
You put an Egyptian rooster overpharaoh hens and they're sexable
(27:25):
at hatch.
But only those birds you can'tdo it those birds and do it
again.
It always has to be cleanEgyptian Pharaoh to be able to
do that
Gina (27:38):
Interesting.
Jennifer (27:39):
Yep.
And so that's one of my biggestsellers is those Egyptian hen
chicks because people only wanthens Sure, even in quail.
Gina (27:51):
And are those the people that pretty much want quail only
for their eggs?
Yes.
Okay.
Jennifer (27:57):
Yeah.
When I ship out the chicks, mostof those are going to be to
people who just want a handfulin their backyard, they live in
a subdivision or something, wantthe kids to be able to collect
eggs.
Something along those lines.
They're not prepared to cull orto eat them or deal with extra
(28:17):
roosters.
And so it fits a need for them.
Which I'm all for, if it teachesthe kids to collect eggs and
where they come from, I'm allfor it.
Gina (28:27):
Oh, for sure.
Jennifer (28:28):
Yeah, I can handle the extra roosters.
It's not a big deal.
Nice.
Yeah.
Gina (28:35):
Have we covered
Jennifer (28:36):
everything?
Gina (28:36):
Just about.
I think, there's two other sexlinked genes that we didn't
touch on.
Carey (28:42):
Okay.
Gina (28:43):
And that would be the chocolate gene.
Which a lot of people don't everthink about.
I don't.
The chocolate gene is a sexlinked recessive.
And in order for a sex linkedrecessive, or any recessive gene
to show up, typically, you haveto have both copies.
(29:05):
A copy of the mother and thefather.
So for a rooster to bechocolate.
He had to have received achocolate gene from both mom and
dad, but females having only onecopy of that Z chromosome will
express a sex link recessivewhen they have one copy.
(29:27):
We call that hemizygous insteadof homozygous because they only
have one copy and they don'thave the matching Z chromosome.
So if you take a chocolaterooster and you breed him to
just about anything, his, he'sgoing to pass his chocolate gene
(29:51):
100 percent of the time.
But if he passes it to his sonsand his sons only get one copy
of that recessive gene.
They won't be chocolate.
If you breed him and he producesa female, that female will be
chocolate every time.
That's an interesting sex linkcross.
(30:15):
Breed him to anything and if itcomes out chocolate, you have a
girl.
Jennifer (30:21):
Nifty!
Gina (30:22):
Yeah.
And then the other one Carey,you would be familiar with this
one, the Slow Feathering Gene.
And Rhode Island Reds have theSlow Feathering Gene, and you'll
notice on breeds that are thathave the Slow Feathering Gene,
the males feather in extremelyslow, because it's a sex linked
(30:46):
gene, and they have a doubledose.
It's a incomplete dominant gene.
So the girls will be slowfeathering, but they won't be as
slow of feathering as the boyswho get two copies.
And that's another
Carey (31:03):
Yeah, that's why you have to, people are like, Oh, I only
need hens, but I want RhodeIsland Reds.
You're gonna have to wait untilthey're about two or three weeks
old.
Gina (31:11):
Yep.
Yep.
Once those little shoulderfeathers start popping out
that's my tell on my line.
The little girls always popthose shoulder feathers out
first.
Jennifer (31:24):
Interesting.
Orpington chicks the girls popout their tail feathers first.
Gina (31:31):
Yeah, that is another way that you know, you see the
little graphics Everybody likesto pass around on the internet
about how you wing sex chicks.
Oh my gosh.
I hate that thing I know Yeah,it pretty much doesn't work
except on specific crosses Youhave to cross a slow feathering
breed to a fast feathering breedAnd only then will you end up
(31:55):
with what slow feathering malesand fast feathering females.
Jennifer (32:01):
I'm sure both of you know that graphic is part of a
longer article, and I've readthe whole article and every time
somebody posted I'd post a linkto it.
I wish you'd read the wholearticle.
Never
Carey (32:15):
And like also I, another one that I've seen is people
will be like.
If you let them hang by theirfeet, if they try to get up,
that's a roo, if it doesn't,then that's a hen.
Gina (32:30):
Just stop it.
Carey (32:31):
And I'm like, Hey, that may work sometimes.
But sometimes you just have ahand that don't wanna be upside
down.
Hey, it works 50%
Gina (32:41):
of the time.
Jennifer (32:43):
I had somebody come get Pulse one time.
My kids
Carey (32:46):
do too.
Jennifer (32:47):
I had somebody come get Pulse one time and they put
'em in their hand and let theirlegs Dan dangle.
And they said if their feet comeup, it's a boy.
And if they stayed dangling, itwas a girl.
Gina (32:59):
Yeah.
I had a fellow show up one timeand was.
He said you let me pick out mychicks.
And I said okay.
He's cause I don't want anyroosters and I'm really good at
picking out.
And I was like, okay.
Yeah.
He was cocky.
And so he looked off in that binof chicks and he's.
(33:22):
Studied him for a minute and hegot real quiet and he said I
don't know on these.
They all look like So he pickedhim out and I heard from about
six weeks later and he said, youknow That dozen chicks I got
from you.
I got to pull it.
Jennifer (33:43):
Oh My gosh
Carey (33:45):
Yeah.
It kills me because the onesthat do that are the ones that
spend hours on Google andYouTube and have no chickens.
Gina (33:58):
Yeah.
Carey (33:59):
They have a handful.
Gina (34:01):
He was apparently
Carey (34:02):
a
Gina (34:03):
lifelong poultryman.
Carey (34:07):
Okay.
Sometimes you might want to seewhat the breeder has to say
because if they've been workingwith the birds for a long time
they may know a thing or twoabout them.
Jennifer (34:19):
I think we covered all of our topics today, autosexing
and sex linked, and I think wetried to touch on all the
different species that weusually talk about.
So we hope that helped everybodyunderstand the difference and
make good decisions for what youwant this spring.
Because it's almost chick daytime.
(34:40):
It is
Gina (34:41):
chick day
Jennifer (34:41):
time.
I know you're sweating already.
It's
Gina (34:45):
on.
Jennifer (34:46):
Yep.
It's here already, quickly.
Carey (34:51):
I've had people messaging me for the last three weeks.
Hey, do you have any Americanbreasts for sale?
I'm like, do I have them?
Yes.
Get back with me in March orApril and you have better luck.
Why so long?
(35:11):
Why so long?
I have a waiting list.
Gina (35:15):
Yeah.
And part of that waiting list is
Jennifer (35:17):
me.
Exactly.
We hatched for ourselves first.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that tests fertility at thesame time too.
Yes.
Yeah, it serves a lot ofpurposes.
We're going to have you back sowe can talk about how breeders
set up in the spring to handleeverything.
Gina (35:34):
Yeah, that'd be good.
Jennifer (35:35):
Maybe give everybody an idea of what we do behind the
scenes.
There's a lot of adventure.
You mean there's
Carey (35:42):
something two breeding?
You don't have just like
Gina (35:46):
a giant pen full of chickens and you just collect
eggs every day?
Jennifer (35:54):
In our white frilly dresses?
Gina (35:56):
Yeah, with the little pockets
Jennifer (35:58):
for each individual egg.
Carey (36:00):
I wear a lab coat.
Hey,
Jennifer (36:02):
I have an egg apron.
It's hanging duly in myincubation room where it has
been since I got it.
That's
Gina (36:09):
one of my friends.
Sent me a picture of the onethat she was getting the other
day and she was like, do youthink there's a market for
these?
Could I make them?
And I said, I just aboutguarantee you that everyone that
owns one used it one time andhung it up.
And you just proved me right.
Jennifer (36:26):
You know what happened?
I put the eggs in it.
I had a sharpie up in the frontpocket and I'm marking all the
eggs and I was like, this isgoing to be cool, from all the
different pens and everything.
And then I squatted down to pickone up and crunched all of the
ones that hit my lap.
Yep.
Yeah, that was it.
I was done.
Went back to my egg trays Icarry around, alright, let's
(36:49):
wrap it up for today.
Thank you Gina for coming back.
Tell everybody where they canfind you if they want to come
see ya.
Gina (36:56):
Yeah, we are Wrather Farms ColumbiaTN on Facebook.
We are WratherFarms.
com on the internet.
We raise Rhode Island Reds,Splash Americana, Bielefelder
Easter Eggers.
I Ayem Cemani, FibromelanisticEaster Eggers, Zombies, Black
(37:18):
Copper Marans, and Olive Eggers.
You got your hands
Carey (37:23):
full.
Gina (37:24):
Yes, I
Jennifer (37:25):
do.
That was a lot.
Carey (37:28):
Yeah.
Jennifer (37:29):
Alright, Poultry Nerds, we'll see you guys later.
Carey (37:33):
Take care.
Mhm.
Welcome, Poultry Nerds.
(00:01):
We have one of our specialguests back, Gina from Wrather
Farms.
We have had her on before, butwe have a new topic we're going
to talk about today.
Welcome, Gina.
Hey, guys.
Nice to have you back again.
Thank you.
Always awesome to be here.
Judith (00:22):
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with Cysteine a powerful aminoacid for stronger feathers,
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(00:42):
out.
Jennifer (00:44):
So we actually got a request.
Carey, you got it somehow.
You sent it to me.
Somebody wanted information onauto sexing and sex sling.
Carey (00:55):
Yup.
Jennifer (00:56):
Yup.
And I was like, racked my brainsfor three days and I'm like, Oh,
I can't.
I don't know.
What do I do?
Who do I call?
And I was like, Tina knows.
Tina to the rescue.
Heck
Gina (01:11):
yeah.
Time for me to talk about it.
Jennifer (01:14):
You have let's first define some stuff.
There's a big difference betweenauto sexing and sex linked.
And I think people sometimesdon't understand that and they
use those terms interchangeably.
Gina (01:28):
Yeah, so an autosexing breed is just that.
It is a breed that breeds truegeneration after generation and
you're able to tell the sex ofthe chicks at hatch based on
their color and their traits.
A sex link is a cross of twobreeds and the differences in
(01:51):
the chick color at hatch onlyhappen in that first generation.
If you breed them forward theability to sex the chicks is not
repeatable.
Jennifer (02:02):
Okay, so let's talk about autosexing first.
So there are no autosexingvariations in Coturnix quail
that we know of.
Nobody has found any yet.
So that kind of rules that partout.
So you have autosexing chickens.
So let's list off some varietiesof chickens that people will be
(02:24):
familiar with.
That would be autosexing.
Gina (02:27):
The most common autosexing breeds are the breeds that are
based on the wild type color.
Your black breasted, red, creelplus barring, which makes the
creel.
And then in the case of theBielefelder, they are cuckoo red
partridge.
You also have your clemethrocks, you're also known as a
(02:53):
barred rock, and your dominiquesto an extent.
So they are barred breeds onblack.
But they are autosexing in the,to the extent that you can
pretty well look at theirheadspots, and the males will
have a larger white headspotthan the females will.
Jennifer (03:10):
Now I don't have them, not familiar with them, but
aren't leg bars autosexing too?
Gina (03:15):
They are.
They would fall in the creelcategory.
They're built on wild type, soif it's a brown bird with
barring, It's going to be wildtype.
If it's a black bird withbarring, then it's going to be
built on extended black.
Jennifer (03:29):
Anything else, any other breeds you can think of
off the top of your head?
Gina (03:34):
Some say that the Welsimer is auto sexing, but they're not
really auto sexing bydefinition.
There are breeders that haveselected those traits in their
line that makes them easier toidentify male versus female, but
they are not.
It's the classical auto sexingbreed.
Jennifer (03:56):
Not to divert off of our topic too terribly much
because we never do that, butisn't Wellsummer's one of those
breeds that people tend todouble mate the serious
breeders?
Gina (04:09):
I don't know.
I'm not a real hip on theWellsummer as a breed.
Jennifer (04:15):
Me either.
It's just one of those littletidbits in the back of my head.
I'm thinking.
I read that somewhere, and somaybe that might create what
you're talking about.
Gina (04:24):
Yeah, the more I learn about different breeds, the more
I learn that there are a lot ofbreeds that probably should be
bred in male and female lines.
It wouldn't surprise me.
Jennifer (04:36):
Okay, so the ones that you have are the Bielefelders.
Yes, that are autosexing.
Okay.
So let's talk about in turkeysI'm not up on turkey genetics,
but to my knowledge, I don'tthink that you can autosex
turkeys At least I've neverheard of it.
Have you?
Gina (04:56):
No.
Jennifer (04:57):
No.Carey, you're being really quiet Do you know of any
turkeys that can be autosexed?
Carey (05:04):
I'm sitting here I'm thinking about all the different
ones that I've seen And I, Ican't,
Gina (05:14):
If it was possible, Frank Reese would have mentioned it in
that seminar back in Knoxville,right?
Yes,
Carey (05:20):
that is true.
Because there was a lot of stuffthat was talked about at that
seminar and that was not.
Gina (05:28):
Yeah.
The autosexing kind of dependson, you'll notice, it depends on
the barring gene.
And if you have a true barringgene in quail, and I've seen you
talk about, your barred quail.
If you have a true barring geneand it lives on the Z
chromosome, then, maybe Anautosexing variety of quail
(05:51):
would be possible.
You'd have to pair it with theright color base, perhaps.
Food for thought.
Jennifer (05:58):
That would be a Brie project.
I'll just send her some and shecan figure it out.
Yeah.
Okay, as far as ducks areconcerned, I have Welsh
Harlequins and they are actuallyautosexing.
I don't raise any other kind ofducks.
I've never have, so I'm surethere probably is something else
out there.
But I just know about them andtheir auto sexing and, I don't,
Carey (06:22):
one of them's face or their beak is different or
something like that.
Jennifer (06:27):
Yeah, their beaks are different beaks.
Their bills are different athatch.
They're different colors.
Gina (06:33):
Yeah.
And, I think the popularity ofthe auto sexing breed and the
sex links, the more we get intothis homesteading movement, the
more important it is.
And the more, the homesteaderscater to the people that live in
town that are slowly beingallowed chickens, they have
(06:54):
restrictions on, we canabsolutely cannot take any
chance on any roosters and thatis.
I dare say half of my customerbase are people that tell me I
have an HOA.
I can't have a rooster and theywant to support local.
They don't want to order from ahatchery.
(07:15):
They don't want to ship theirchicks.
They don't want to buy from thebig box store.
And so the sex link and the autosexing breeds are amazing.
Jennifer (07:25):
So would you agree with me when I said that to keep
the auto sexing traits.
Clean and crisp going forward inyour generations.
You have to carefully select forit.
Gina (07:41):
Of course.
You're a steward of any breedthat you have.
One of the things that any autosexing breed is going to pride
itself on is the ability to sexat hatch.
I know when I first got into theBielefelder, there were, there
was a lot of talk about onlyselecting the clearly marked
chicks.
(08:02):
And the reality is those clearlymarked chicks are also going to
grow up to be your chicks withthe best barring expression.
Whether you pick the chick athatch or you pick the chick in
adulthood.
You're invariably going toselect for the best sparring.
Jennifer (08:20):
So I do the same thing with the ducks.
I just got my ducks local.
I don't show them.
They're not like anybody's lineor anything.
And so I've just been workingfor a few years to clean them
up.
And obviously they have someissues in there.
So I get orange bills, which isnot, that's an automatic cull
out of a breeding program.
If it's sex, if it hatch, if thebills aren't the right color, or
(08:45):
you can't automatically tellwhat the sex is right then, they
actually get moved to adifferent brooder as just a pet
quality, or I call them skeetereaters, because I just put them
out on the pond to eatmosquitoes.
But they're not ever going to bepart of a breeding program
because you've got to select forthat trait to go forward.
Gina (09:10):
So do you wing band your Skeeter Eaters so you don't pull
them into the breeding flocklater?
Girl,
Jennifer (09:16):
you just, have you ever tried to band a duck?
Negative.
Carey (09:21):
No.
So I would like to watchJennifer try to band a duck.
Jennifer (09:25):
So it's totally different.
Those little webbed feet, theycan shrink them up smaller than
the diameter of their leg andyou spend all that time cuddling
them and holding them andputting that little zip tie on
their leg and you set them downand they just look at you and
they pull that little leg up andwatch it just fall off and you
(09:46):
just want to smack
Gina (09:47):
them.
Oh my, what about wing bands?
Can you wing band them?
Jennifer (09:52):
I'm not comfortable wingbanding right at hatch.
I usually wait like a week ortwo.
I can't see that close and Idon't know sometimes this might
just be a waste of a wingband,if they don't make it kind of
thing.
So all I do is I just dodifferent brooders.
I mean you got to break them upanyway, so why not just break
them up that way.
(10:13):
And then you can band them, whenthey're ready to be mixed back
up.
Yeah.
But I didn't even sell any lastyear.
I just turned them all out to beskeeter eaters.
There's 69 of them out thererunning around right now.
Gina (10:27):
Good Lord.
That's a lot of poop.
Jennifer (10:29):
David counted them about a week ago and he's we
have.
69 ducks.
I was like, don't count them.
We don't count ducks aroundhere.
Gina (10:40):
I'm impressed that he could count that many moving.
Not that he could count thathigh.
That's not what I meant.
Carey (10:48):
But I'm just wondering, like, how David was that bored?
Was he that, was he reallycurious, like, how many ducks am
I feeding?
Jennifer (11:00):
Or, why do we have
Carey (11:02):
no mosquitoes?
Jennifer (11:04):
I will tell you that we do not have mosquitoes here
anymore.
They've eaten them all.
All right, so see we digressed alittle bit again.
Okay, so let's go back to ourthing.
So let's talk about sex linkedbecause that seems to be the
thing that hatcheries and likewhat you were talking about the
suburban homesteaders, they'rereally after, so people are
(11:25):
really maximizing their profitson these sex linked chickens.
So let's talk about how thathappens.
Gina (11:33):
Sure.
All right, chicken genetics.
So female chickens haveautosomes.
What is it?
39 autosome pairs of autosomes,autosomal chromosomes, and then
they have the sex chromosomes.
So females have a Z sexchromosome and a W.
sex chromosome, males have apair of Z chromosomes.
(11:57):
So there are some genes that youwill only find on the Z
chromosome.
And therefore, the female canonly carry or possess one copy.
All right?
That female lays an egg.
She's either going to pass her Zchromosome or her W chromosome.
(12:21):
Every time there's 50 50 shop.
If she passes her Z chromosome,that embryo and that egg will
develop into a male because ithas no choice, but to get.
A Z from the father.
So ZZ is male.
ZW is female.
Alright, so the geneticinformation that she possesses
(12:43):
on that Z chromosome, she willonly pass to her male offspring.
She cannot pass it to her femaleoffspring.
So let's say you have a barredrock, okay?
She has the barring gene.
She only has one copy becausethe barring gene lives on the Z
chromosome.
She's going to pass that barringgene to her sons.
(13:06):
And only her sons, she cannotpass it to her daughters.
So let's say we take that barredrock and we breed her to a.
Rhode Island red.
All right, her sons are going tohatch with a little spot on top
of their head, which indicatesthat they have the barring gene
(13:28):
and that they are male, herdaughters will not have a spot
on their head, and they will befemales, they will be black sex
links, and everybody's seen theterm, everybody's seen the bin
of them at tractor supply.
So that is how a black sex linkis made, is a barred hen to any
(13:50):
non barred rooster.
Jennifer (13:54):
And they're called sex linked because the gene that
we're manipulating to get whatwe want is on the sex linked
gene.
Gina (14:05):
Gene is linked to the sex of the chick.
Okay,
Carey (14:11):
so if you have a barred hen and a non barred rooster,
the dot will be roosters.
Correct.
Jennifer (14:27):
Now you do this at your farm, and you do zombies,
right?
Gina (14:32):
I do.
So zombies are a whole notherball of wax.
Of course! Yeah, zombies are alittle more complicated.
Most people use a white leghornhen.
under an I am Somani cock fortheir zombies.
(14:54):
And the reason why that works sowell is because you have two sex
linked genes at play here.
Your chicks are basically doublesex linked.
The white leghorn typicallyCareys the barring gene, and you
wouldn't know that becausethey're white, and it's hidden
(15:14):
under all that white.
The white lagrine also Careysanother sex linked gene called
the inhibitor of dermal melanin.
And this gene doesn't reallyplay into any other sex linked
hybrid, except when you breed itto an I.
M.
simani, whose identity dependson their dermal melanin being,
(15:38):
black, fully expressed.
And so when you take this henand she only passes her
inhibitor of dermal melanin, Andthe barring gene, which has a
dermal melanin inhibiting actionof its own, a very huge one.
You end up with little malesthat have pale colored legs,
(16:01):
combs, and waddles, and beaks.
You end up with females withdark legs, dark columns and
beaks.
It would appear that the femalesinherit the fibromelanism trait,
and that the males don't, butthat's not true.
Those two sex linked genes thatI mentioned almost completely
(16:24):
obscure any hint offibromyalgism in most of the
male chicks.
Jennifer (16:31):
Okay, so that was pretty complicated sounding.
So let me back up for just asecond.
Is the Iamsamani over the whiteleggern, is that the only way to
make a zombie or is theredifferent ways?
Gina (16:44):
There are different, you can use other dominant white
breeds for your hint.
But it always has to be an I amSomani cock over a white breed.
Let me okay.
Scratch that from the record.
Okay.
Because there are other ways todo it.
(17:05):
Yes, there are other ways tocreate a zombie.
Most of the dominant whitebreeds are yellow skinned or
white skinned breeds that carrythis inhibitor of dermal
melanin.
The one other breed thatimmediately comes to mind that
you can't use are the whitebreasts.
(17:28):
White breasts are usuallydominant white.
They do not have the barringgene But the dominant white is
key to creating a zombie.
You can create a zombie with thebreasts, but it will not be sex
linked.
Your males and your females willboth have dark legs, combs, and
(17:51):
beaks, and you cannot tell themas sex linked.
Jennifer (17:56):
Ooh, you just said something I did not know.
So just because it's zombiedoesn't mean it's a female or
sex linked, right?
See, for some reason I wasthinking zombies were
automatically sex linked.
Gina (18:11):
Most of them are, and there are some people that are
using the breasts to create,because you gotta admit, a male
zombie with that nice dark comb,waddles, dark legs, is
impressive.
So a lot of people are using thebreasts to create zombies that
are not sex links and cannot besexed at hatch, but produce some
(18:34):
really cool looking males.
Jennifer (18:37):
Okay, so for our listeners, they just need to
understand that just because theword zombie is used doesn't mean
they're automatically sexable athatch.
Gina (18:48):
Correct.
Jennifer (18:49):
Gotcha.
So I had seen somebody post thatshe was going to start buying
zombie eggs and sell and hatchthem and then sell the chicks as
sexed chicks and wanted to knowmy, or people's opinions.
It was a Facebook post and Isaid I would not do that because
that would be staking yourreputation on what the Breeder
(19:13):
was doing and yeah, and youdon't know So you just answered
that question for me in the backof my mind.
Gina (19:21):
Yeah, it totally depends on what they're using for their
hens and it also depends a greatdeal on the quality of the I am
Samani cock that they're usingover that because I have used
some I am Samani that Producesome really clear male versus
female and I've used some cocksthat I need to keep these chicks
(19:44):
around for a week and watch thembefore I can be confident on
sex.
Jennifer (19:50):
So again, scrupulous breeding pays off,
Carey (19:55):
correct?
There's a lot of people that, sowhen they look online they see
The prices of I am Somalis andthey think, Oh, I got a black
bird.
It's worth a hundred bucks.
But since we talked last time onthe podcast about that bird not
(20:20):
just my it's one of the snobbybreeds.
I'll say that because if youdon't have the right sheen in
the feathering and everything iscompletely dark, if there's any
red or anything like that.
That bird's a cold, but peopleare still wanting a hundred
(20:42):
bucks for it.
And I'm like, no, you don't knowwhat you have.
Jennifer (20:48):
Oh my gosh.
I have to tell y'all something.
So since she was on the showlast time I didn't know.
I didn't know they weren'tsupposed to have a sheen until
Gina told us last time.
And so now every time somebodyposts, they have these expensive
birds.
I'm like looking at them going.
I wouldn't use that one as myexample picture because there's
red in the comb or, there'ssomething going on there.
(21:10):
I would have never known.
Why does that bird
Carey (21:12):
have a white beak?
Yellow.
That ain't a 25 check.
Gina (21:19):
But I paid a thousand dollars for this breeding pair
and I have to sell all theoffspring I possibly can.
They're purebred, I promise.
Carey (21:28):
I hate to say this, I really do, because it's pretty
unfortunate as it relates topoultry as a whole, but there's
a lot of people out theregetting screwed.
Yeah.
Because they don't know.
Gina (21:43):
Yeah not just
Carey (21:45):
the scammers.
It's People say, oh, this one ofmy favorites.
This is an exhibition RhodeIsland red.
That thing ain't mahogany colorYeah, that's a red sex link.
That's been cleaned up a littlebit like
Jennifer (22:06):
Let's talk about what the hatcheries are doing because
they're making production birdsWith the sex link traits, which
I mean, I'm all for I meaneverybody there's a purpose for
everything We're not makingmoney We are not what did I get
called out yesterday?
Dragging out something.
So comets and red stars andwomen, queens, Isa browns.
Gina (22:31):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there's what, 18or 20 of them now, right?
Oodles and oodles.
And, you've, again, you've gotred sex links, which come under
a variety of names.
And then you've got your blacksex links, which somehow have.
Escaped all of the differentnames, everybody wants to put
their own stamp on their red sexlink.
(22:53):
So cackle uses a Rhode Islandwhite that isn't a Rhode Island
white.
It's like the Rhode Island reddebacle.
The Rhode Island white is whatwe use for our zombies.
from Cackle.
They're a single comb, and atrue Rhode Island White is a
rose comb.
They resemble nothing like aRhode Island Red.
(23:16):
Which, the true Rhode IslandWhite should have the same body
type as a Rhode Island Red.
But anyway, they use, Cackleuses their own version of a
Rhode Island White for theirCinnamon Queens.
Hoover Hatchery, what's HooverHatchery's red sex sling?
There's a red
Jennifer (23:33):
star.
Somebody has a red star.
Gina (23:35):
That may be theirs.
Yeah.
The golden comet is, some otherhatcheries.
They, they trademark all thesenames, but they're basically the
same bird.
They're high production.
Red cross to a high productionsilver base and silver is
another one of those sex linkedgenes.
(23:56):
The red sex links are typicallya Rhode Island red or a New
Hampshire cross to somethingcarrying the silver gene.
And again, that silver henPasses her silver gene only to
her sons and the little whitechicks They'll pluck out of the
hatching basket as males andthey'll ship out the little red
(24:18):
chicks as females
Jennifer (24:20):
and they have a purpose I mean you and I both
sell a lot of female chicks andI mean we end up eating the
roosters and I know you that youdo too we can handle the extra
roosters if people don't wantthem.
So we're not dogging on thepeople buying just the pullets.
(24:42):
That's not what we're doing now.
These are production breeds.
And so they're meant to lay alarge amount of eggs in the 1st,
what?
2 years.
And they serve a purpose butbuyers need to understand they,
they don't reproduce true atall.
They're just going to be hybridbackyard mixes if you breed
(25:03):
them.
Gina (25:03):
Yeah.
And they can be bred forward.
If you're a barnyard mix and youwant to let that, red sex link
sit on eggs and hatch them oryou want to shove her eggs under
your silky.
Go for it.
Yeah, all you can do is create aheartier chicken.
Jennifer (25:19):
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, hybrids are best.
Gina (25:21):
Yeah
Jennifer (25:23):
But I just don't want I want to make sure people
understand that if you took anisobrown to an isobrown You're
not gonna get another isobrown
Gina (25:31):
Absolutely.
The one that I get asked aboutthe most is I shouldn't say the
most but frequently are thesapphire gems do you breed
Sapphire gems?
I'm looking for somebody thatbreeds Sapphire gems.
And if anybody tells you thatthey can sell you a Sapphire gem
and they didn't buy it andresell it directly from Hoover
(25:53):
Hatchery, they're not sellingyou a Sapphire gem.
Sapphire gem is another sexlink.
Mystic Morans.
Yep.
There's another sex link.
You're, your local homesteaderis not going to be able to
reproduce those birds.
Know what you're buying beforeyou decide, you want a specific
(26:14):
chicken breed and find out, isit even a breed or is it a first
generation hybrid?
Jennifer (26:21):
Yes some of the best things I ever sold were they,
they weren't sex link.
This is just another digressionin our conversation.
But for hybrid, it was acoaching over in Orpington.
They were just beautiful birdsand they had the best
personalities from both breeds.
Nice.
People ate them up.
I don't do it.
I might do it this year.
(26:41):
I've thought about doing itagain, but Hybrids are
fantastic.
They're very healthy.
Yes.
All right.
So let's divert over to quailfor just a minute I know that
you don't do quail, but sincewe're talking about the sex
linked I have a cage set up todo auto sexing at hatch and the
(27:03):
chicks are Egyptian hens and thephenotype of pharaoh is the
male, meaning the brown ones aremales, the gold ones are
females.
And you do that by manipulatingthe sex linked genes.
You put an Egyptian rooster overpharaoh hens and they're sexable
(27:25):
at hatch.
But only those birds you can'tdo it those birds and do it
again.
It always has to be cleanEgyptian Pharaoh to be able to
do that
Gina (27:38):
Interesting.
Jennifer (27:39):
Yep.
And so that's one of my biggestsellers is those Egyptian hen
chicks because people only wanthens Sure, even in quail.
Gina (27:51):
And are those the people that pretty much want quail only
for their eggs?
Yes.
Okay.
Jennifer (27:57):
Yeah.
When I ship out the chicks, mostof those are going to be to
people who just want a handfulin their backyard, they live in
a subdivision or something, wantthe kids to be able to collect
eggs.
Something along those lines.
They're not prepared to cull orto eat them or deal with extra
(28:17):
roosters.
And so it fits a need for them.
Which I'm all for, if it teachesthe kids to collect eggs and
where they come from, I'm allfor it.
Gina (28:27):
Oh, for sure.
Jennifer (28:28):
Yeah, I can handle the extra roosters.
It's not a big deal.
Nice.
Yeah.
Gina (28:35):
Have we covered
Jennifer (28:36):
everything?
Gina (28:36):
Just about.
I think, there's two other sexlinked genes that we didn't
touch on.
Carey (28:42):
Okay.
Gina (28:43):
And that would be the chocolate gene.
Which a lot of people don't everthink about.
I don't.
The chocolate gene is a sexlinked recessive.
And in order for a sex linkedrecessive, or any recessive gene
to show up, typically, you haveto have both copies.
(29:05):
A copy of the mother and thefather.
So for a rooster to bechocolate.
He had to have received achocolate gene from both mom and
dad, but females having only onecopy of that Z chromosome will
express a sex link recessivewhen they have one copy.
(29:27):
We call that hemizygous insteadof homozygous because they only
have one copy and they don'thave the matching Z chromosome.
So if you take a chocolaterooster and you breed him to
just about anything, his, he'sgoing to pass his chocolate gene
(29:51):
100 percent of the time.
But if he passes it to his sonsand his sons only get one copy
of that recessive gene.
They won't be chocolate.
If you breed him and he producesa female, that female will be
chocolate every time.
That's an interesting sex linkcross.
(30:15):
Breed him to anything and if itcomes out chocolate, you have a
girl.
Jennifer (30:21):
Nifty!
Gina (30:22):
Yeah.
And then the other one Carey,you would be familiar with this
one, the Slow Feathering Gene.
And Rhode Island Reds have theSlow Feathering Gene, and you'll
notice on breeds that are thathave the Slow Feathering Gene,
the males feather in extremelyslow, because it's a sex linked
(30:46):
gene, and they have a doubledose.
It's a incomplete dominant gene.
So the girls will be slowfeathering, but they won't be as
slow of feathering as the boyswho get two copies.
And that's another
Carey (31:03):
Yeah, that's why you have to, people are like, Oh, I only
need hens, but I want RhodeIsland Reds.
You're gonna have to wait untilthey're about two or three weeks
old.
Gina (31:11):
Yep.
Yep.
Once those little shoulderfeathers start popping out
that's my tell on my line.
The little girls always popthose shoulder feathers out
first.
Jennifer (31:24):
Interesting.
Orpington chicks the girls popout their tail feathers first.
Gina (31:31):
Yeah, that is another way that you know, you see the
little graphics Everybody likesto pass around on the internet
about how you wing sex chicks.
Oh my gosh.
I hate that thing I know Yeah,it pretty much doesn't work
except on specific crosses Youhave to cross a slow feathering
breed to a fast feathering breedAnd only then will you end up
(31:55):
with what slow feathering malesand fast feathering females.
Jennifer (32:01):
I'm sure both of you know that graphic is part of a
longer article, and I've readthe whole article and every time
somebody posted I'd post a linkto it.
I wish you'd read the wholearticle.
Never
Carey (32:15):
And like also I, another one that I've seen is people
will be like.
If you let them hang by theirfeet, if they try to get up,
that's a roo, if it doesn't,then that's a hen.
Gina (32:30):
Just stop it.
Carey (32:31):
And I'm like, Hey, that may work sometimes.
But sometimes you just have ahand that don't wanna be upside
down.
Hey, it works 50%
Gina (32:41):
of the time.
Jennifer (32:43):
I had somebody come get Pulse one time.
My kids
Carey (32:46):
do too.
Jennifer (32:47):
I had somebody come get Pulse one time and they put
'em in their hand and let theirlegs Dan dangle.
And they said if their feet comeup, it's a boy.
And if they stayed dangling, itwas a girl.
Gina (32:59):
Yeah.
I had a fellow show up one timeand was.
He said you let me pick out mychicks.
And I said okay.
He's cause I don't want anyroosters and I'm really good at
picking out.
And I was like, okay.
Yeah.
He was cocky.
And so he looked off in that binof chicks and he's.
(33:22):
Studied him for a minute and hegot real quiet and he said I
don't know on these.
They all look like So he pickedhim out and I heard from about
six weeks later and he said, youknow That dozen chicks I got
from you.
I got to pull it.
Jennifer (33:43):
Oh My gosh
Carey (33:45):
Yeah.
It kills me because the onesthat do that are the ones that
spend hours on Google andYouTube and have no chickens.
Gina (33:58):
Yeah.
Carey (33:59):
They have a handful.
Gina (34:01):
He was apparently
Carey (34:02):
a
Gina (34:03):
lifelong poultryman.
Carey (34:07):
Okay.
Sometimes you might want to seewhat the breeder has to say
because if they've been workingwith the birds for a long time
they may know a thing or twoabout them.
Jennifer (34:19):
I think we covered all of our topics today, autosexing
and sex linked, and I think wetried to touch on all the
different species that weusually talk about.
So we hope that helped everybodyunderstand the difference and
make good decisions for what youwant this spring.
Because it's almost chick daytime.
(34:40):
It is
Gina (34:41):
chick day
Jennifer (34:41):
time.
I know you're sweating already.
It's
Gina (34:45):
on.
Jennifer (34:46):
Yep.
It's here already, quickly.
Carey (34:51):
I've had people messaging me for the last three weeks.
Hey, do you have any Americanbreasts for sale?
I'm like, do I have them?
Yes.
Get back with me in March orApril and you have better luck.
Why so long?
(35:11):
Why so long?
I have a waiting list.
Gina (35:15):
Yeah.
And part of that waiting list is
Jennifer (35:17):
me.
Exactly.
We hatched for ourselves first.
Yeah.
Yep.
And that tests fertility at thesame time too.
Yes.
Yeah, it serves a lot ofpurposes.
We're going to have you back sowe can talk about how breeders
set up in the spring to handleeverything.
Gina (35:34):
Yeah, that'd be good.
Jennifer (35:35):
Maybe give everybody an idea of what we do behind the
scenes.
There's a lot of adventure.
You mean there's
Carey (35:42):
something two breeding?
You don't have just like
Gina (35:46):
a giant pen full of chickens and you just collect
eggs every day?
Jennifer (35:54):
In our white frilly dresses?
Gina (35:56):
Yeah, with the little pockets
Jennifer (35:58):
for each individual egg.
Carey (36:00):
I wear a lab coat.
Hey,
Jennifer (36:02):
I have an egg apron.
It's hanging duly in myincubation room where it has
been since I got it.
That's
Gina (36:09):
one of my friends.
Sent me a picture of the onethat she was getting the other
day and she was like, do youthink there's a market for
these?
Could I make them?
And I said, I just aboutguarantee you that everyone that
owns one used it one time andhung it up.
And you just proved me right.
Jennifer (36:26):
You know what happened?
I put the eggs in it.
I had a sharpie up in the frontpocket and I'm marking all the
eggs and I was like, this isgoing to be cool, from all the
different pens and everything.
And then I squatted down to pickone up and crunched all of the
ones that hit my lap.
Yep.
Yeah, that was it.
I was done.
Went back to my egg trays Icarry around, alright, let's
(36:49):
wrap it up for today.
Thank you Gina for coming back.
Tell everybody where they canfind you if they want to come
see ya.
Gina (36:56):
Yeah, we are Wrather Farms ColumbiaTN on Facebook.
We are WratherFarms.
com on the internet.
We raise Rhode Island Reds,Splash Americana, Bielefelder
Easter Eggers.
I Ayem Cemani, FibromelanisticEaster Eggers, Zombies, Black
(37:18):
Copper Marans, and Olive Eggers.
You got your hands
Carey (37:23):
full.
Gina (37:24):
Yes, I
Jennifer (37:25):
do.
That was a lot.
Carey (37:28):
Yeah.
Jennifer (37:29):
Alright, Poultry Nerds, we'll see you guys later.
Carey (37:33):
Take care.
Mhm.
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