January 30, 2025 • 34 mins
In this enlightening episode of The Poultry Nerds Podcast, hosts Jennifer Bryant of Bryant's Roost and Carey Blackmon of Double R Farms delve into understanding coccidiosis—a prevalent parasitic infection impacting poultry health. They explore its causes, symptoms, and effective prevention strategies, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a clean brooding environment and promoting robust gut health. Listeners will gain insights into natural remedies, such as incorporating garlic and oregano into chick diets, and learn about the potential risks of medicated feeds. Whether you're a seasoned poultry keeper or a newcomer, this episode offers valuable information to safeguard your flock's well-being.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:00):
Welcome poultry enthusiasts to another exciting
(00:04):
episode of the Poultry NerdsPodcast.
Carey (00:08):
Whether you're raising backyard chickens, diving deep
into the science of avianhealth, or just obsessed with
all things feather and eggs,you're in the right place.
I'm Carey.
Jennifer (00:19):
And I'm Jennifer, your host.
And today we've got an episodepacked with everything you need
to know about coccidiosis.
Carey (00:28):
From expert tips to fascinating facts, we're here to
help you become the ultimatepoultry pro.
It's time to get nerdy aboutpoultry.
Jennifer (00:39):
Looking for a poultry supplement that goes beyond the
basics?
Meet ShowPro Poultry Supplement,the only supplement with
cysteine, a powerful amino acidfor stronger feathers, healthier
birds, and better eggproduction.
Give your flock the boost.
They deserve a show pro poultrysupplement because healthy
(00:59):
poultry starts from the insideout.
You know what?
I realize that's an ad, but itgoes together with what we're
fixing to talk about.
So what's in the show prosupplement that would help with
coccidiosis?
Mhm.
Carey (01:23):
It's got a lot of different vitamins.
A, D, E.
The amino acids, like cysteine,which that one's really for
feather production probably themain thing that helps with
toxidiosis and other pests thatcould be internal or external
(01:46):
like mites or whatever, would bethe sulfur that we add into it.
We mix a little bit of that, notenough to where it's toxic.
We're well below those levels,but it is enough that it has
found to we, we've had birdsthat have gotten oh, what is
(02:06):
that stuff called?
Fowl Pox.
And not all the birds getFowlPox in the persons, where
they keep all their birds.
And we've also had people havebirds where they brought them in
or whatever, and they looked notgreat, but they started feeding
them their feed that has theShowPro in it.
(02:29):
And they got better.
Jennifer (02:32):
You and I have had serious conversations that, and
we actually involved Jeff intoabout sulfur because my breeder
pens are on my well, and it's asulfur well, that's where.
We didn't ever do a podcast.
I don't think about it, but wehave talked extensively about my
sulfur well, and the fact thatmy birds up there, I don't have
(02:55):
a pest problem on my birds.
And of course I didn't have, Ididn't know.
I just was yakking away with youone day, and that it had sulfur
in it, and it was stinking.
And then we put two and twotogether, and went from there.
Carey (03:11):
Yeah, that's why they don't get sick.
Yeah not good for, it's probablynot good for taste, although
some of the stuff I've seenchickens drink and eat, I don't
know that they really.
Their taste buds don't work thesame as ours.
Jennifer (03:27):
I drink it.
It does not bother me in theslightest bit.
Don't have bugs either, I don'tthink.
But, the, we had some guys hereputting up some fencing for us.
And he filled up his water jugwith it and took a huge swig.
It was really hot that day.
And David said he just upchucked everywhere.
He said, that's sulfur water.
And we yeah.
Now he is.
Carey (03:49):
You took it straight out of the well there, buddy.
Jennifer (03:52):
It's 55 degrees.
It's good.
My garden grows good on it too.
Carey (03:57):
Yeah, and you the small pests that will typically
attack, things with leaves onthem and eat the leaves away.
That's not happening with thateither, because they'll bite the
leaves and die.
Jennifer (04:12):
Gosh, I wish they would, I wish it would kill
squash bugs though.
Did not, did squash bugsflourished?
So it didn't help me there.
All right, so let's get back toour topic for the day, which is
coccidiosis and it's a prettygeneralized problem.
If you have an issue with it,you're not alone.
(04:32):
It's very common, but there's alot of things that you can do to
negate the possibility thatyou're going to get it.
And there's a lot of things youdo to.
Amend your soil to try toprevent an overstocking of the
(04:53):
parasite in your soil.
And then, of course, there'streatments that you can do if
you should need to get to thatpoint.
Carey (05:01):
Now, Jeff and I have talked about it, and he says
that every bird will have alevel of coccidiosis.
At any given time in itsintestinal tract.
Jennifer (05:17):
And I believe that, everything is a balance, right?
If you have coccidia, it shouldshow up on every fecal.
There are some present becauselow
Carey (05:30):
levels
Jennifer (05:31):
because the chicken's gut health is a balance.
It's its own ecosystem.
So don't be alarmed if they comeback.
If you had a fecal run and itsays, oh, they've got coccidia
in there.
Yeah, the imbalance is whatwe're wanting to not have.
(05:53):
So our our take on it is toboost their immune system from
the get go and then they don'tget that imbalance and can
handle your dirt, the load inyour dirt.
Carey (06:09):
I'm a pretty firm believer that if you're feeding
your birds a nutritionally soundfeed, they're not even going to
get the sniffles.
I've and I use myself as anexample, but I've been watching
what I eat and taking thevitamins and stuff that I
(06:29):
should, and I have gotten verylittle illness this year and
normally I will get sick to thepoint that it will take me down
for 2 weeks.
Can't get out of bed, can'tfunction, can't do none of it.
Jennifer (06:46):
Gut health.
Carey (06:47):
There you go.
Jennifer (06:48):
Okay, so let's 1st tell everybody what it is,
because if you know what it is.
then you know what you're doing.
The terms are usedinterchangeably, it seems, but
they're very specific.
Coxy means it's just a fearshaped organism.
Coccidia is the parasite thatbugs us, and there's nine
(07:11):
strains of them, and they'respecies specific.
coccidia in your turkeys, that'snot the same one that's going to
be in your Chickens or yourducks.
Coccidiosis is the infectionfrom a coccidia overload.
Okay.
So when you have a problem, now,the right vocabulary.
Carey (07:33):
So when the word gets really long, you got a problem.
Jennifer (07:37):
The bigger the word, the bigger the problem.
Carey (07:39):
Okay.
That makes sense.
Jennifer (07:41):
Okay.
So it lives in the dirt.
Okay.
And it's not in the air.
It's not just magicallyappearing.
So if your chicks get it, it hadto be introduced to them somehow
Carey (07:58):
from the dirt.
Jennifer (08:01):
So
Carey (08:02):
is that one of the reasons why you use feeders?
And don't throw feed on thedirt.
Jennifer (08:08):
Listen, we're talking about chicks at this point,
right?
So we haven't got to that pointyet.
We're starting at the beginning.
If your brooder is clean,sterilized, no coccidia is
living in it, and the chickshatched, this is important, if
the chicks hatched on yourproperty and you put them
(08:29):
straight into a clean brooder,Theoretically, they should not
have Proxidia introduced tothem, unless you have it on your
hands, on your clothes, in yourhair.
Unless you introduce it to them,they won't get it.
Now, the reason why I emphasizedThat they hatched on your
(08:50):
property.
If you go to tractor supply oryour neighbor's house and pick
up chicks.
Now, that is now out of yourcontrol and you don't know what
they've been introduced to
Carey (09:03):
and 1 thing 1 thing that would be a huge, just making
people think, hey, I need to gotake care of my chickens.
Do I empty out my incubator ordo I go feed my chickens and
empty out the incubator when Igo in the barn or what?
At one point I never, I wouldnot have thought, Oh, I need to
take care of the chicks firstbecause if I pick up one of my
(09:28):
chickens, if they got poo ontheir foot, I could very well
get my chicks sick when I takethem out of the incubator.
You don't really think aboutthat kind of stuff all the time
necessarily.
Jennifer (09:40):
The rule of thumb would be you take care of the
smallest, newest first.
So you wake up in the morning,you have clean clothes on, and
you go take care of the chicksfirst.
And then you work out to theolder birds.
That's the general rule ofthumb.
Anyway, it
Carey (09:58):
makes sense.
Jennifer (10:00):
Okay, so the symptoms once, once you've determined
that something's going on inyour brooder you've got
symptoms.
Now what I've seen is theyusually become lethargic.
They puff out, they, they'recold.
So they're going to sit underthe heat longer.
(10:20):
Their wings hang down, theirwingtips will be down on the
floor.
What else?
Carey (10:27):
They act like you do when you go out to the wing place and
you get some wings that aren'tdone all the way.
That's what happens to thechickens.
They just, they're droopy.
They mope around.
They don't have an appetite.
They don't want to eat.
You will also see bloody poop.
(10:47):
And at that point, if you're notdoing something immediately.
You, it may be too late you willnotice, their poo should not be
running and it will get runnyand very liquidy before you will
see the blood.
So if you're not taking care ofyour birds every day, paying
(11:10):
attention to what's going on andlooking at that kind of stuff,
you may not notice until it'stoo late, but everything I've
ever seen.
And from when I've actually seenit, when.
There's blood in the poo.
You got maybe a week.
Jennifer (11:31):
So what's going on the inside of the chick is the
parasite has latched on to theintestinal wall.
And it's literally sucking allof the vitamins to itself.
Which prevents the chick fromusing the vitamins to stay
healthy and to grow.
Carey (11:49):
Right.
Jennifer (11:50):
Okay.
So at this point let's back upfor just a second.
So I know a well known breederout of Georgia.
He shows very nice birds and heliterally goes outside and gets
a handful of dirt and puts inhis brooders.
Because he wants to weed out theones that have a weak immune
(12:13):
system from the get go.
That's his goal.
That's his first cull, I guessyou would say.
His first survival of the
Carey (12:21):
fittest.
Jennifer (12:22):
Exactly.
This is the point, if you haveit in your brooders, this is the
point where you decide foryourself which way you're gonna
go.
Are you gonna do survival of thefittest, or are you going to
treat?
Okay, now we're not going totell you which way is the right
(12:43):
way because it's your farm.
It's your rules.
I will tell you what I do and hewill tell you what he does.
And then we're going to tell youhow to do the other way because
I just let him go because I needhim to be healthy.
I breed for survival.
Carey (13:00):
Chick vigor is very important to me because.
I ship birds you can't have abird go a couple of days without
a whole lot because grow gelonly lasts so long and you don't
want somebody getting a box ofbirds that haven't expired.
So you know, they need thatvigor.
(13:20):
They need to be hardy birds.
So I will do I'm pretty brutal.
I want birds that survive, and Iwant fighters, so that's how I
am.
I do not do medicated feed.
Now, I don't bring, dirt fromoutside to try to make it
happen, but I keep a cleanbrooder to prevent it, and also,
(13:46):
there's some other stuff that Ido to prevent it, but
Jennifer (13:50):
We're not as extreme as putting dirt in the brooder.
No, I clean my brooders.
You clean your brooders.
Everything starts off freshevery time.
And we work on building guthealth from the beginning.
So we want to give the chick allthe tools.
It can possibly have to bevigorous.
(14:13):
Okay.
We're not throwing dirt on themand throwing disease on them and
stuff and saying, sink or swim.
That is an extreme that's anextreme.
Yeah, that's a bit much.
Does it?
I understand why I
Carey (14:24):
totally get it.
I do,
Jennifer (14:26):
but it's an extreme way of doing it.
It's not, I'm not going to sayit's wrong.
It's just an extreme.
So we err on the side of.
Give them all of the nutrientsthey need to build strong gut
health, build a strong immunesystem and move them forward in
that way.
I do garlic water and oreganowater in for the 1st week and
(14:49):
then at times of stress if Imove them, but I also have very
good, chick starter, nonmedicated chick starter, but I
add your show pro to it with theother stuff in it.
Now you and Jeff come up with aputting milk out for them in
order to help build gut health,and I think you can use yogurt
(15:13):
too, right?
Carey (15:14):
Yeah, so You can use, it's best to work with raw milk
if you have it available becauseit has the prebiotics and the
probiotics.
And you put out enough for thebirds to consume all of it
within about an hour on daythree.
And then every seven days, likeday three, day seven, 14, 21,
(15:38):
28, do that for the first monthto help them build up the, uh,
the immune system, help it to bestrong, build the gut health.
You can also use plain white,regular yogurt to do that.
There's also another productthat I like to use.
It's a Dr.
Paul's product called CEG, andit is organic apple cider
(16:06):
vinegar, cayenne, and garlic.
This is where the CEG comes fromand you put a little bit of that
in there and I'm not 100 percentsure behind the science, but I
know it works.
And I'll give you an example.
(16:27):
Two weeks ago, I hatched out 680quail.
Since then, I have had three.
that passed away, not onpurpose.
Jennifer (16:42):
Not on purpose.
I get what you're saying.
There's
Carey (16:47):
some things that they're used for that, it happens on
purpose, but, I've still got afew hundred of them in brooders
right now waiting to be somebreeders that I have this year
to give me lots of eggs to helptake care of all the people that
want them.
Jennifer (17:04):
I can tell you about the garlic.
Now, garlic is antimicrobial andantibacterial.
That would be why they usegarlic.
And then, because I use it, andI don't know about the cayenne.
I don't have never seen thescience on the cayenne, but the
apple cider vinegar would be tochange your body's pH.
(17:24):
People take apple cider vinegaralso.
Because if you bring your pHdown, it makes you sicknesses
grow in an acidic level,basically, though, you use the
vinegar to bring your pH leveldown into a basic level.
So that would be
Carey (17:41):
like.
As low as five, five and a half,six, that's a really good place,
even for your water to be foryour birds, to help prevent
stuff from growing.
Jennifer (17:55):
On a side note, did you know that apple cider
vinegar is super expensive now?
Like stupid expensive.
So I made my own.
Carey (18:04):
I was going to say I have made it and I buy it by the 55
gallon drum when I buy it.
Because by the gallon isexpensive,
Jennifer (18:14):
what in the world do you do with 55 gallons of apple
cider vinegar?
Carey (18:18):
I have a lot of customers that use it.
And they buy in bulk too.
I break it, I break down acouple of five gallon and sell
it in five gallon buckets.
And I use, I use a lot of it inmy place.
It's vinegar.
It's not like it expires.
Jennifer (18:35):
It just gets better with age, right?
Carey (18:37):
There you go.
Shake the drum up every now andthen.
Jennifer (18:40):
Just a fun one.
Okay.
We've talked about 1 extremewhere you can get rid of them
straight off the bat with thedirt.
Then we've talked about how webuild up the gut health.
To give the chick a good solidstart and sink or swim with
those tools.
And then the next level would bemedicated feed.
(19:03):
So medicated Medicaid feed hasand Prolia in it.
Carey (19:07):
It does, but I really don't like that.
Given if you give a check.
and prolium, it blocks the, thatchick's body from taking in the
vitamins in the feet.
So it's hey, you won't die fromcoccidiosis, but you're not
going to get all the vitaminsthat you want to have, that you
(19:28):
need either.
It's counterintuitive.
So keep a clean brooder.
Jennifer (19:35):
Yes, I have bought, I will be honest, I have bought
medicated feed one time when Ibrought some original birds in,
they were already on, he feedsmedicated feed and I, the stress
of shipping, these were olderbirds, they were four months at
(19:55):
the time and The stress ofshipping the stress of all of
it.
I wanted to limit the amount ofchanges that I expose them to.
So I went out and I bought thesame fee that he used and it
happened to be medicated and Iused about half of that bag.
At 2025 pounds, and slowly movethem over to my feed after a
(20:19):
week, I left him on it for aweek and then slowly moved him
over to my feed and they didfine.
But I felt one less thing that Ichanged was best for them.
Carey (20:28):
That makes sense because one of the things that makes the
very minute amount ofcoccidiosis that's in their, or
cocci, that's in theirintestines, one of the things
that makes it inflame and gofull fledged is stress, extreme
stress can cause it to come outand make everything else happen.
(20:51):
So not wanting to changeanything about the bird's life,
that's, to me, that's goodstewardship.
That's what you should havedone.
Jennifer (21:02):
So when we're giving you all of these options, you
were the only one that knowsyour farm.
And you only know how you'redoing the chicks.
So are the chicks coming to youthrough the mail?
So they're going to be stressed?
Or did you just literally movethem five feet from the
incubator?
So all of these things play arole in the choices that we make
on how we handle The chicks, soamprolium is the same thing
(21:27):
that's in cord.
So that would be the next level.
So now you've got a full fledgedoutbreak, even though you've
done everything.
So do you decide that you'regoing to move on to using cord,
which is amprolium liquid form?
I believe you add it to theirwater.
I honestly have never bought it,so I don't know.
(21:49):
So
Carey (21:50):
I have, because I had a friend of mine that is close to
me that he he's a flipper.
And I'm not big into that, buthe had a problem and wanted me
to come over and help him figureit out.
And I told him, I said, look,this is the deal with the birds.
(22:11):
If you're going to do something,you need to do it fast.
And so we got some amproliumthat, we, I think I got a gallon
sized jug of the cord and youmix it in the water.
It's got instructions on it andneither one of us are vets.
So I would highly recommend youactually read the instructions
(22:32):
and mix it correctly.
They don't have pictures, soyou'll have to read them.
You can make that choice and itdid work out for him and he was
very thankful because he had gota couple of hundred spent layers
from a house up in Arkansas andlost a couple of them on the way
(22:57):
home because they were alreadyso sick from being in that
house, being stressed out fromgoing from Arkansas to Alabama,
it was rough on him.
He had to do that pretty quickbecause they were, their poo was
like water.
It's pretty bad.
There's a, another thing that'scoming out.
I think it's been out for awhile, but it's Tylosin.
(23:21):
T Y L O S I N.
That's another one that you mixup with their water.
And, again, follow theinstructions on that, too.
Jennifer (23:31):
And then how they work is they block the vitamin uptake
to the parasite and basicallystarve it, right?
Carey (23:41):
Yep.
Jennifer (23:42):
But that also is blocking a lot of the vitamin
uptake to the chick.
Yep.
Be aware of that.
Carey (23:49):
It's going to be tough on the chicks too, and if I
remember correctly, like you doit for several days and then you
don't do it and then you do itagain, or you do it and you wait
a couple days.
It's been a couple years, butthere, there is a whole process
to it.
You don't just, it's not a oneand done thing.
Jennifer (24:09):
And you're not going to want to give probiotics or
vitamins while you're doing it,because that's counterintuitive
and not useful to yourpocketbook.
You'll do 1 at a time.
So you would do Corrid if youchoose to do it, and then after
the run of Corrid, you're goingto do your probiotics and your
vitamins and start working onbuilding that gut health back up
(24:33):
again.
Carey (24:34):
Yeah, after you've followed the process that they
have.
On the bottle, if the bird isstill with you, then I would
definitely start putting thenutrition to the bird to help it
get its strength back andrecover.
Jennifer (24:51):
Yeah.
What you don't want to do isspend all this time and money on
making the bird well, and thenfeed it garbage and expect it to
stay healthy.
Okay.
So if you're going to go throughthe expense and the time of
treating it.
Then go through the expense andtime of treating its gut health
after the fact.
Carey (25:11):
But if you do too much of it You can cause a thiamine
deficiency and that's going tolead to neurological disorders
like, you have a bird walkingaround like they don't know
where they're at because theycould be blind,
Jennifer (25:30):
stargazing
Carey (25:32):
yeah, all that kind of stuff,
Jennifer (25:34):
shaking their head.
Carey (25:35):
Sometimes I'm wondering if mine are shaking their head
at me because they're wonderingwhat I'm doing.
So I don't really look at thatas a symptom a whole lot.
We look at chickens like, whatthe crap are you doing?
But I think mine look at me likethat sometimes too because
there's sometimes when I go inHoudini's pen, he's staring me
(25:56):
down.
Like, why are you in here?
Why did you open the door?
Why are you touching mygirlfriend?
If I pick up one of the handsthat's in there with him, he's
going to come over to my feetand just look at me like, where
are you going?
So I don't really look at thatone as a whole thing.
Jennifer (26:16):
Okay, so now we're out of the brooder and we've got
some older birds.
Now, older birds can getcoccidiosis also, but that is,
that is going to be a husbandryissue at that point.
Are they in mud?
Are they in wet, moistconditions?
Are they overcrowded?
Are they stressed?
(26:37):
Lots and lots of things going onthat way, and the treatment's
going to be the same.
You're And then fix their gutafter the fact.
But mostly you need to work onyour husbandry skills at that
point.
You need to treat the ground,you need to give them more
(26:58):
space, get them onto dry space.
Carey (27:02):
I think most of the time when I see.
people with the issue with adultbirds.
It's because they went intotractor supply on Valentine's
Day and they heard that chirpingsound.
They bought 10 times too manychickens.
(27:23):
They all lived.
Now they don't have enough.
run space, poop space, andthey're really overcrowded.
So there's a lot of poop on theground.
They're overcrowded, they'restressed out, and that's
typically when it starts comingout.
Jennifer (27:42):
Yep, so you can do a couple of things to treat your
ground.
First, we're going to have toget it dried out.
Saw pellets will dry it out.
Ag lime can help dry it out alittle bit.
Sand would probably help dry itout a little bit.
Don't try straw or wood chipsbecause those things hold
moisture.
(28:03):
We're trying to draw we'retrying to dry it out.
Peat moss, I, I use strawpellets and peat moss
everywhere.
Everything stays dry for me.
But you can put salt in the mix.
To help dry stuff out and youdry out bacteria that way and it
kills it.
I use a lot of Ag Lime to changethe pH of my soil.
(28:26):
Because manure is acidic.
So I use a lot of Ag Lime tobring it back down to basic.
What else could we do?
Yeah,
Carey (28:34):
the first time I heard that about salt, I was watching
a TikTok.
When you're, when you need tokill time or when your brain's
running and you need to slow itdown, you just scroll a little
bit cause you see a lot ofhumorous stuff.
But the quail lady was talkingabout how she stroves out salt
and I was like, why in the crapdoes she do that?
(28:57):
But if you think about it, theproperties in salt.
Kills a lot of bacteria.
Jennifer (29:05):
She she has dirt floor and hoop houses and big, long,
200, 200 feet.
Yeah.
She has several of them.
Now I have concrete floors, soI'm not going to use salt, but I
do like we cleaned every pentoday and made it snow in there
with ag lime.
Carey (29:24):
That makes sense because you're killing.
You're lowering the pH or stuffcan't survive and, first the
salt, I was like, what?
Then I thought about it.
People will literally take likeham and pork and, cure it with
salt or.
(29:45):
A long time.
So it makes sense that it killsprobably all kinds of bacteria.
Jennifer (29:52):
So before we recorded this and we were talking about
the salt and I actually did somequick Google searches and stuff
and it's a thing.
You put the salt down and itdries out the the cell walls or
the
Carey (30:07):
membranes.
Jennifer (30:08):
Yeah, membrane, I wanted to say skin and I knew
that wasn't quite right.
The membranes, it drives themout, which kills off the
bacteria.
Yeah, I just never thought aboutit, but I'm working on concrete.
Different, I would do somethingdifferent.
You have to look at yoursituation, be educated and, be
honest about how you want to goforward.
Do you want to continuallymedicate?
(30:30):
Animals to move forward, or doyou, you want to be a little bit
tougher and weed them out alittle bit.
But those are for your choices.
That's not for us to make thatchoice for you just to give you
that information.
Carey (30:45):
Yeah, I have my reasons for doing it.
It works.
You have yours.
And I would say that if yourbirds, it would also, it would
be a good way to find out ifyour birds had really good
hybrid vigor.
But as you grow your breedingprogram, that type, the
resistance and that type ofstuff can grow too.
(31:07):
So
Jennifer (31:09):
before we started doing the podcast and people
would ask me all the time wouldyou treat for this or treat for
that and everything?
And my answer always was.
If you came here to buy chicksand I told you that I
continuously had to treat inorder to keep them alive and
keep them healthy, is that thekind of bird that you want to go
(31:32):
home with?
Or would you rather go home withsomething that was able to
handle the stress, theenvironment stress?
And the immunity stress, theconstant attacks on the immune
system and able to stand upagainst it and take that bird
home.
So when you're shopping, payattention to that.
(31:54):
And decide for yourself whatworks best for you.
Carey (31:58):
Sounds good to me.
Jennifer (32:01):
That was off the top of my head.
All right, I'm going to put thison the website under our
podcast.
You can find all of our podcaston the website, and I will put
the articles that we referencedfor this information as links so
that you can go read that.
for yourself and decide whatworks for you.
(32:23):
And please hit subscribe andfollow and check out the new
website.
And if you have any questions orwant us to do something
different or talk aboutsomething, let us know.
Carey (32:35):
Hey, don't we have an event coming soon?
Jennifer (32:38):
We do.
We do.
So if you want to learn aboutquail, come check us out.
That's on the website too.
And sign up to, to see aboutthat.
Carey (32:49):
Quail mania.
Jennifer (32:50):
Quail mania.
Carey (32:52):
Y'all have a good night.
Jennifer (32:53):
All right.
See ya.
Welcome poultry enthusiasts to another exciting
(00:04):
episode of the Poultry NerdsPodcast.
Carey (00:08):
Whether you're raising backyard chickens, diving deep
into the science of avianhealth, or just obsessed with
all things feather and eggs,you're in the right place.
I'm Carey.
Jennifer (00:19):
And I'm Jennifer, your host.
And today we've got an episodepacked with everything you need
to know about coccidiosis.
Carey (00:28):
From expert tips to fascinating facts, we're here to
help you become the ultimatepoultry pro.
It's time to get nerdy aboutpoultry.
Jennifer (00:39):
Looking for a poultry supplement that goes beyond the
basics?
Meet ShowPro Poultry Supplement,the only supplement with
cysteine, a powerful amino acidfor stronger feathers, healthier
birds, and better eggproduction.
Give your flock the boost.
They deserve a show pro poultrysupplement because healthy
(00:59):
poultry starts from the insideout.
You know what?
I realize that's an ad, but itgoes together with what we're
fixing to talk about.
So what's in the show prosupplement that would help with
coccidiosis?
Mhm.
Carey (01:23):
It's got a lot of different vitamins.
A, D, E.
The amino acids, like cysteine,which that one's really for
feather production probably themain thing that helps with
toxidiosis and other pests thatcould be internal or external
(01:46):
like mites or whatever, would bethe sulfur that we add into it.
We mix a little bit of that, notenough to where it's toxic.
We're well below those levels,but it is enough that it has
found to we, we've had birdsthat have gotten oh, what is
(02:06):
that stuff called?
Fowl Pox.
And not all the birds getFowlPox in the persons, where
they keep all their birds.
And we've also had people havebirds where they brought them in
or whatever, and they looked notgreat, but they started feeding
them their feed that has theShowPro in it.
(02:29):
And they got better.
Jennifer (02:32):
You and I have had serious conversations that, and
we actually involved Jeff intoabout sulfur because my breeder
pens are on my well, and it's asulfur well, that's where.
We didn't ever do a podcast.
I don't think about it, but wehave talked extensively about my
sulfur well, and the fact thatmy birds up there, I don't have
(02:55):
a pest problem on my birds.
And of course I didn't have, Ididn't know.
I just was yakking away with youone day, and that it had sulfur
in it, and it was stinking.
And then we put two and twotogether, and went from there.
Carey (03:11):
Yeah, that's why they don't get sick.
Yeah not good for, it's probablynot good for taste, although
some of the stuff I've seenchickens drink and eat, I don't
know that they really.
Their taste buds don't work thesame as ours.
Jennifer (03:27):
I drink it.
It does not bother me in theslightest bit.
Don't have bugs either, I don'tthink.
But, the, we had some guys hereputting up some fencing for us.
And he filled up his water jugwith it and took a huge swig.
It was really hot that day.
And David said he just upchucked everywhere.
He said, that's sulfur water.
And we yeah.
Now he is.
Carey (03:49):
You took it straight out of the well there, buddy.
Jennifer (03:52):
It's 55 degrees.
It's good.
My garden grows good on it too.
Carey (03:57):
Yeah, and you the small pests that will typically
attack, things with leaves onthem and eat the leaves away.
That's not happening with thateither, because they'll bite the
leaves and die.
Jennifer (04:12):
Gosh, I wish they would, I wish it would kill
squash bugs though.
Did not, did squash bugsflourished?
So it didn't help me there.
All right, so let's get back toour topic for the day, which is
coccidiosis and it's a prettygeneralized problem.
If you have an issue with it,you're not alone.
(04:32):
It's very common, but there's alot of things that you can do to
negate the possibility thatyou're going to get it.
And there's a lot of things youdo to.
Amend your soil to try toprevent an overstocking of the
(04:53):
parasite in your soil.
And then, of course, there'streatments that you can do if
you should need to get to thatpoint.
Carey (05:01):
Now, Jeff and I have talked about it, and he says
that every bird will have alevel of coccidiosis.
At any given time in itsintestinal tract.
Jennifer (05:17):
And I believe that, everything is a balance, right?
If you have coccidia, it shouldshow up on every fecal.
There are some present becauselow
Carey (05:30):
levels
Jennifer (05:31):
because the chicken's gut health is a balance.
It's its own ecosystem.
So don't be alarmed if they comeback.
If you had a fecal run and itsays, oh, they've got coccidia
in there.
Yeah, the imbalance is whatwe're wanting to not have.
(05:53):
So our our take on it is toboost their immune system from
the get go and then they don'tget that imbalance and can
handle your dirt, the load inyour dirt.
Carey (06:09):
I'm a pretty firm believer that if you're feeding
your birds a nutritionally soundfeed, they're not even going to
get the sniffles.
I've and I use myself as anexample, but I've been watching
what I eat and taking thevitamins and stuff that I
(06:29):
should, and I have gotten verylittle illness this year and
normally I will get sick to thepoint that it will take me down
for 2 weeks.
Can't get out of bed, can'tfunction, can't do none of it.
Jennifer (06:46):
Gut health.
Carey (06:47):
There you go.
Jennifer (06:48):
Okay, so let's 1st tell everybody what it is,
because if you know what it is.
then you know what you're doing.
The terms are usedinterchangeably, it seems, but
they're very specific.
Coxy means it's just a fearshaped organism.
Coccidia is the parasite thatbugs us, and there's nine
(07:11):
strains of them, and they'respecies specific.
coccidia in your turkeys, that'snot the same one that's going to
be in your Chickens or yourducks.
Coccidiosis is the infectionfrom a coccidia overload.
Okay.
So when you have a problem, now,the right vocabulary.
Carey (07:33):
So when the word gets really long, you got a problem.
Jennifer (07:37):
The bigger the word, the bigger the problem.
Carey (07:39):
Okay.
That makes sense.
Jennifer (07:41):
Okay.
So it lives in the dirt.
Okay.
And it's not in the air.
It's not just magicallyappearing.
So if your chicks get it, it hadto be introduced to them somehow
Carey (07:58):
from the dirt.
Jennifer (08:01):
So
Carey (08:02):
is that one of the reasons why you use feeders?
And don't throw feed on thedirt.
Jennifer (08:08):
Listen, we're talking about chicks at this point,
right?
So we haven't got to that pointyet.
We're starting at the beginning.
If your brooder is clean,sterilized, no coccidia is
living in it, and the chickshatched, this is important, if
the chicks hatched on yourproperty and you put them
(08:29):
straight into a clean brooder,Theoretically, they should not
have Proxidia introduced tothem, unless you have it on your
hands, on your clothes, in yourhair.
Unless you introduce it to them,they won't get it.
Now, the reason why I emphasizedThat they hatched on your
(08:50):
property.
If you go to tractor supply oryour neighbor's house and pick
up chicks.
Now, that is now out of yourcontrol and you don't know what
they've been introduced to
Carey (09:03):
and 1 thing 1 thing that would be a huge, just making
people think, hey, I need to gotake care of my chickens.
Do I empty out my incubator ordo I go feed my chickens and
empty out the incubator when Igo in the barn or what?
At one point I never, I wouldnot have thought, Oh, I need to
take care of the chicks firstbecause if I pick up one of my
(09:28):
chickens, if they got poo ontheir foot, I could very well
get my chicks sick when I takethem out of the incubator.
You don't really think aboutthat kind of stuff all the time
necessarily.
Jennifer (09:40):
The rule of thumb would be you take care of the
smallest, newest first.
So you wake up in the morning,you have clean clothes on, and
you go take care of the chicksfirst.
And then you work out to theolder birds.
That's the general rule ofthumb.
Anyway, it
Carey (09:58):
makes sense.
Jennifer (10:00):
Okay, so the symptoms once, once you've determined
that something's going on inyour brooder you've got
symptoms.
Now what I've seen is theyusually become lethargic.
They puff out, they, they'recold.
So they're going to sit underthe heat longer.
(10:20):
Their wings hang down, theirwingtips will be down on the
floor.
What else?
Carey (10:27):
They act like you do when you go out to the wing place and
you get some wings that aren'tdone all the way.
That's what happens to thechickens.
They just, they're droopy.
They mope around.
They don't have an appetite.
They don't want to eat.
You will also see bloody poop.
(10:47):
And at that point, if you're notdoing something immediately.
You, it may be too late you willnotice, their poo should not be
running and it will get runnyand very liquidy before you will
see the blood.
So if you're not taking care ofyour birds every day, paying
(11:10):
attention to what's going on andlooking at that kind of stuff,
you may not notice until it'stoo late, but everything I've
ever seen.
And from when I've actually seenit, when.
There's blood in the poo.
You got maybe a week.
Jennifer (11:31):
So what's going on the inside of the chick is the
parasite has latched on to theintestinal wall.
And it's literally sucking allof the vitamins to itself.
Which prevents the chick fromusing the vitamins to stay
healthy and to grow.
Carey (11:49):
Right.
Jennifer (11:50):
Okay.
So at this point let's back upfor just a second.
So I know a well known breederout of Georgia.
He shows very nice birds and heliterally goes outside and gets
a handful of dirt and puts inhis brooders.
Because he wants to weed out theones that have a weak immune
(12:13):
system from the get go.
That's his goal.
That's his first cull, I guessyou would say.
His first survival of the
Carey (12:21):
fittest.
Jennifer (12:22):
Exactly.
This is the point, if you haveit in your brooders, this is the
point where you decide foryourself which way you're gonna
go.
Are you gonna do survival of thefittest, or are you going to
treat?
Okay, now we're not going totell you which way is the right
(12:43):
way because it's your farm.
It's your rules.
I will tell you what I do and hewill tell you what he does.
And then we're going to tell youhow to do the other way because
I just let him go because I needhim to be healthy.
I breed for survival.
Carey (13:00):
Chick vigor is very important to me because.
I ship birds you can't have abird go a couple of days without
a whole lot because grow gelonly lasts so long and you don't
want somebody getting a box ofbirds that haven't expired.
So you know, they need thatvigor.
(13:20):
They need to be hardy birds.
So I will do I'm pretty brutal.
I want birds that survive, and Iwant fighters, so that's how I
am.
I do not do medicated feed.
Now, I don't bring, dirt fromoutside to try to make it
happen, but I keep a cleanbrooder to prevent it, and also,
(13:46):
there's some other stuff that Ido to prevent it, but
Jennifer (13:50):
We're not as extreme as putting dirt in the brooder.
No, I clean my brooders.
You clean your brooders.
Everything starts off freshevery time.
And we work on building guthealth from the beginning.
So we want to give the chick allthe tools.
It can possibly have to bevigorous.
(14:13):
Okay.
We're not throwing dirt on themand throwing disease on them and
stuff and saying, sink or swim.
That is an extreme that's anextreme.
Yeah, that's a bit much.
Does it?
I understand why I
Carey (14:24):
totally get it.
I do,
Jennifer (14:26):
but it's an extreme way of doing it.
It's not, I'm not going to sayit's wrong.
It's just an extreme.
So we err on the side of.
Give them all of the nutrientsthey need to build strong gut
health, build a strong immunesystem and move them forward in
that way.
I do garlic water and oreganowater in for the 1st week and
(14:49):
then at times of stress if Imove them, but I also have very
good, chick starter, nonmedicated chick starter, but I
add your show pro to it with theother stuff in it.
Now you and Jeff come up with aputting milk out for them in
order to help build gut health,and I think you can use yogurt
(15:13):
too, right?
Carey (15:14):
Yeah, so You can use, it's best to work with raw milk
if you have it available becauseit has the prebiotics and the
probiotics.
And you put out enough for thebirds to consume all of it
within about an hour on daythree.
And then every seven days, likeday three, day seven, 14, 21,
(15:38):
28, do that for the first monthto help them build up the, uh,
the immune system, help it to bestrong, build the gut health.
You can also use plain white,regular yogurt to do that.
There's also another productthat I like to use.
It's a Dr.
Paul's product called CEG, andit is organic apple cider
(16:06):
vinegar, cayenne, and garlic.
This is where the CEG comes fromand you put a little bit of that
in there and I'm not 100 percentsure behind the science, but I
know it works.
And I'll give you an example.
(16:27):
Two weeks ago, I hatched out 680quail.
Since then, I have had three.
that passed away, not onpurpose.
Jennifer (16:42):
Not on purpose.
I get what you're saying.
There's
Carey (16:47):
some things that they're used for that, it happens on
purpose, but, I've still got afew hundred of them in brooders
right now waiting to be somebreeders that I have this year
to give me lots of eggs to helptake care of all the people that
want them.
Jennifer (17:04):
I can tell you about the garlic.
Now, garlic is antimicrobial andantibacterial.
That would be why they usegarlic.
And then, because I use it, andI don't know about the cayenne.
I don't have never seen thescience on the cayenne, but the
apple cider vinegar would be tochange your body's pH.
(17:24):
People take apple cider vinegaralso.
Because if you bring your pHdown, it makes you sicknesses
grow in an acidic level,basically, though, you use the
vinegar to bring your pH leveldown into a basic level.
So that would be
Carey (17:41):
like.
As low as five, five and a half,six, that's a really good place,
even for your water to be foryour birds, to help prevent
stuff from growing.
Jennifer (17:55):
On a side note, did you know that apple cider
vinegar is super expensive now?
Like stupid expensive.
So I made my own.
Carey (18:04):
I was going to say I have made it and I buy it by the 55
gallon drum when I buy it.
Because by the gallon isexpensive,
Jennifer (18:14):
what in the world do you do with 55 gallons of apple
cider vinegar?
Carey (18:18):
I have a lot of customers that use it.
And they buy in bulk too.
I break it, I break down acouple of five gallon and sell
it in five gallon buckets.
And I use, I use a lot of it inmy place.
It's vinegar.
It's not like it expires.
Jennifer (18:35):
It just gets better with age, right?
Carey (18:37):
There you go.
Shake the drum up every now andthen.
Jennifer (18:40):
Just a fun one.
Okay.
We've talked about 1 extremewhere you can get rid of them
straight off the bat with thedirt.
Then we've talked about how webuild up the gut health.
To give the chick a good solidstart and sink or swim with
those tools.
And then the next level would bemedicated feed.
(19:03):
So medicated Medicaid feed hasand Prolia in it.
Carey (19:07):
It does, but I really don't like that.
Given if you give a check.
and prolium, it blocks the, thatchick's body from taking in the
vitamins in the feet.
So it's hey, you won't die fromcoccidiosis, but you're not
going to get all the vitaminsthat you want to have, that you
(19:28):
need either.
It's counterintuitive.
So keep a clean brooder.
Jennifer (19:35):
Yes, I have bought, I will be honest, I have bought
medicated feed one time when Ibrought some original birds in,
they were already on, he feedsmedicated feed and I, the stress
of shipping, these were olderbirds, they were four months at
(19:55):
the time and The stress ofshipping the stress of all of
it.
I wanted to limit the amount ofchanges that I expose them to.
So I went out and I bought thesame fee that he used and it
happened to be medicated and Iused about half of that bag.
At 2025 pounds, and slowly movethem over to my feed after a
(20:19):
week, I left him on it for aweek and then slowly moved him
over to my feed and they didfine.
But I felt one less thing that Ichanged was best for them.
Carey (20:28):
That makes sense because one of the things that makes the
very minute amount ofcoccidiosis that's in their, or
cocci, that's in theirintestines, one of the things
that makes it inflame and gofull fledged is stress, extreme
stress can cause it to come outand make everything else happen.
(20:51):
So not wanting to changeanything about the bird's life,
that's, to me, that's goodstewardship.
That's what you should havedone.
Jennifer (21:02):
So when we're giving you all of these options, you
were the only one that knowsyour farm.
And you only know how you'redoing the chicks.
So are the chicks coming to youthrough the mail?
So they're going to be stressed?
Or did you just literally movethem five feet from the
incubator?
So all of these things play arole in the choices that we make
on how we handle The chicks, soamprolium is the same thing
(21:27):
that's in cord.
So that would be the next level.
So now you've got a full fledgedoutbreak, even though you've
done everything.
So do you decide that you'regoing to move on to using cord,
which is amprolium liquid form?
I believe you add it to theirwater.
I honestly have never bought it,so I don't know.
(21:49):
So
Carey (21:50):
I have, because I had a friend of mine that is close to
me that he he's a flipper.
And I'm not big into that, buthe had a problem and wanted me
to come over and help him figureit out.
And I told him, I said, look,this is the deal with the birds.
(22:11):
If you're going to do something,you need to do it fast.
And so we got some amproliumthat, we, I think I got a gallon
sized jug of the cord and youmix it in the water.
It's got instructions on it andneither one of us are vets.
So I would highly recommend youactually read the instructions
(22:32):
and mix it correctly.
They don't have pictures, soyou'll have to read them.
You can make that choice and itdid work out for him and he was
very thankful because he had gota couple of hundred spent layers
from a house up in Arkansas andlost a couple of them on the way
(22:57):
home because they were alreadyso sick from being in that
house, being stressed out fromgoing from Arkansas to Alabama,
it was rough on him.
He had to do that pretty quickbecause they were, their poo was
like water.
It's pretty bad.
There's a, another thing that'scoming out.
I think it's been out for awhile, but it's Tylosin.
(23:21):
T Y L O S I N.
That's another one that you mixup with their water.
And, again, follow theinstructions on that, too.
Jennifer (23:31):
And then how they work is they block the vitamin uptake
to the parasite and basicallystarve it, right?
Carey (23:41):
Yep.
Jennifer (23:42):
But that also is blocking a lot of the vitamin
uptake to the chick.
Yep.
Be aware of that.
Carey (23:49):
It's going to be tough on the chicks too, and if I
remember correctly, like you doit for several days and then you
don't do it and then you do itagain, or you do it and you wait
a couple days.
It's been a couple years, butthere, there is a whole process
to it.
You don't just, it's not a oneand done thing.
Jennifer (24:09):
And you're not going to want to give probiotics or
vitamins while you're doing it,because that's counterintuitive
and not useful to yourpocketbook.
You'll do 1 at a time.
So you would do Corrid if youchoose to do it, and then after
the run of Corrid, you're goingto do your probiotics and your
vitamins and start working onbuilding that gut health back up
(24:33):
again.
Carey (24:34):
Yeah, after you've followed the process that they
have.
On the bottle, if the bird isstill with you, then I would
definitely start putting thenutrition to the bird to help it
get its strength back andrecover.
Jennifer (24:51):
Yeah.
What you don't want to do isspend all this time and money on
making the bird well, and thenfeed it garbage and expect it to
stay healthy.
Okay.
So if you're going to go throughthe expense and the time of
treating it.
Then go through the expense andtime of treating its gut health
after the fact.
Carey (25:11):
But if you do too much of it You can cause a thiamine
deficiency and that's going tolead to neurological disorders
like, you have a bird walkingaround like they don't know
where they're at because theycould be blind,
Jennifer (25:30):
stargazing
Carey (25:32):
yeah, all that kind of stuff,
Jennifer (25:34):
shaking their head.
Carey (25:35):
Sometimes I'm wondering if mine are shaking their head
at me because they're wonderingwhat I'm doing.
So I don't really look at thatas a symptom a whole lot.
We look at chickens like, whatthe crap are you doing?
But I think mine look at me likethat sometimes too because
there's sometimes when I go inHoudini's pen, he's staring me
(25:56):
down.
Like, why are you in here?
Why did you open the door?
Why are you touching mygirlfriend?
If I pick up one of the handsthat's in there with him, he's
going to come over to my feetand just look at me like, where
are you going?
So I don't really look at thatone as a whole thing.
Jennifer (26:16):
Okay, so now we're out of the brooder and we've got
some older birds.
Now, older birds can getcoccidiosis also, but that is,
that is going to be a husbandryissue at that point.
Are they in mud?
Are they in wet, moistconditions?
Are they overcrowded?
Are they stressed?
(26:37):
Lots and lots of things going onthat way, and the treatment's
going to be the same.
You're And then fix their gutafter the fact.
But mostly you need to work onyour husbandry skills at that
point.
You need to treat the ground,you need to give them more
(26:58):
space, get them onto dry space.
Carey (27:02):
I think most of the time when I see.
people with the issue with adultbirds.
It's because they went intotractor supply on Valentine's
Day and they heard that chirpingsound.
They bought 10 times too manychickens.
(27:23):
They all lived.
Now they don't have enough.
run space, poop space, andthey're really overcrowded.
So there's a lot of poop on theground.
They're overcrowded, they'restressed out, and that's
typically when it starts comingout.
Jennifer (27:42):
Yep, so you can do a couple of things to treat your
ground.
First, we're going to have toget it dried out.
Saw pellets will dry it out.
Ag lime can help dry it out alittle bit.
Sand would probably help dry itout a little bit.
Don't try straw or wood chipsbecause those things hold
moisture.
(28:03):
We're trying to draw we'retrying to dry it out.
Peat moss, I, I use strawpellets and peat moss
everywhere.
Everything stays dry for me.
But you can put salt in the mix.
To help dry stuff out and youdry out bacteria that way and it
kills it.
I use a lot of Ag Lime to changethe pH of my soil.
(28:26):
Because manure is acidic.
So I use a lot of Ag Lime tobring it back down to basic.
What else could we do?
Yeah,
Carey (28:34):
the first time I heard that about salt, I was watching
a TikTok.
When you're, when you need tokill time or when your brain's
running and you need to slow itdown, you just scroll a little
bit cause you see a lot ofhumorous stuff.
But the quail lady was talkingabout how she stroves out salt
and I was like, why in the crapdoes she do that?
(28:57):
But if you think about it, theproperties in salt.
Kills a lot of bacteria.
Jennifer (29:05):
She she has dirt floor and hoop houses and big, long,
200, 200 feet.
Yeah.
She has several of them.
Now I have concrete floors, soI'm not going to use salt, but I
do like we cleaned every pentoday and made it snow in there
with ag lime.
Carey (29:24):
That makes sense because you're killing.
You're lowering the pH or stuffcan't survive and, first the
salt, I was like, what?
Then I thought about it.
People will literally take likeham and pork and, cure it with
salt or.
(29:45):
A long time.
So it makes sense that it killsprobably all kinds of bacteria.
Jennifer (29:52):
So before we recorded this and we were talking about
the salt and I actually did somequick Google searches and stuff
and it's a thing.
You put the salt down and itdries out the the cell walls or
the
Carey (30:07):
membranes.
Jennifer (30:08):
Yeah, membrane, I wanted to say skin and I knew
that wasn't quite right.
The membranes, it drives themout, which kills off the
bacteria.
Yeah, I just never thought aboutit, but I'm working on concrete.
Different, I would do somethingdifferent.
You have to look at yoursituation, be educated and, be
honest about how you want to goforward.
Do you want to continuallymedicate?
(30:30):
Animals to move forward, or doyou, you want to be a little bit
tougher and weed them out alittle bit.
But those are for your choices.
That's not for us to make thatchoice for you just to give you
that information.
Carey (30:45):
Yeah, I have my reasons for doing it.
It works.
You have yours.
And I would say that if yourbirds, it would also, it would
be a good way to find out ifyour birds had really good
hybrid vigor.
But as you grow your breedingprogram, that type, the
resistance and that type ofstuff can grow too.
(31:07):
So
Jennifer (31:09):
before we started doing the podcast and people
would ask me all the time wouldyou treat for this or treat for
that and everything?
And my answer always was.
If you came here to buy chicksand I told you that I
continuously had to treat inorder to keep them alive and
keep them healthy, is that thekind of bird that you want to go
(31:32):
home with?
Or would you rather go home withsomething that was able to
handle the stress, theenvironment stress?
And the immunity stress, theconstant attacks on the immune
system and able to stand upagainst it and take that bird
home.
So when you're shopping, payattention to that.
(31:54):
And decide for yourself whatworks best for you.
Carey (31:58):
Sounds good to me.
Jennifer (32:01):
That was off the top of my head.
All right, I'm going to put thison the website under our
podcast.
You can find all of our podcaston the website, and I will put
the articles that we referencedfor this information as links so
that you can go read that.
for yourself and decide whatworks for you.
(32:23):
And please hit subscribe andfollow and check out the new
website.
And if you have any questions orwant us to do something
different or talk aboutsomething, let us know.
Carey (32:35):
Hey, don't we have an event coming soon?
Jennifer (32:38):
We do.
We do.
So if you want to learn aboutquail, come check us out.
That's on the website too.
And sign up to, to see aboutthat.
Carey (32:49):
Quail mania.
Jennifer (32:50):
Quail mania.
Carey (32:52):
Y'all have a good night.
Jennifer (32:53):
All right.
See ya.
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