August 28, 2025 • 43 mins
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In this episode of the Poultry Nerds Podcast, we dive deep into how to assess your chicken’s health—from daily live observations to hands-on necropsy techniques. Carey and Jennifer share detailed notes from their flocks, including Orpington grow-out observations, line breeding practices, and surprising behavior differences when young cockerels are raised with mature roosters.
We also cover:
- What to look for in combs, wattles, eyes, and feathers
- How to check chickens for mites, lice, and scaly leg mites
- The importance of vigor, temperament, and survivability in breeding selection
- Simple tools and methods for performing a home necropsy
- Why observing chickens in natural flocks teaches valuable lessons
Whether you’re showing chickens, running a homestead, or raising poultry for meat and eggs, this episode gives you practical tools to keep your flock healthy and thriving.
🔗 Visit PoultryNerdsPodcast.com
for reference materials, necropsy guides, and bonus resources.
Keywords: assessing chicken health, chicken necropsy, poultry care, backyard chickens, chicken mites, chicken breeding, Orpington chickens, poultry nutrition, homestead chickens
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennifer (00:00):
So I have a, I'm growing out all of these birds
and taking like extreme amountof notes on them.
Yeah.
Per band number.
Okay.
So one of the things I havenoticed, Observation wise is the
Carey (00:18):
so today we're gonna talk about assessing your chicken's
health.
And I called Jennifer and shedidn't realize it until just now
that she was fixing to tell meabout her, assessing her
Orpingtons.
So let's talk about it.
Jennifer (00:38):
I wasn't prepared to talk about that on air though.
I was just talking to you.
Carey (00:43):
You're notice, you're noticing some things and you're
documenting a whole lot.
I am.
And that's important whetheryou're showing chickens or
whether you're building ahomestead.
Jennifer (00:59):
Okay, so what I was fixing to say was that an
observation that I am making isI divide my Orpingtons when I
take'em out of the barn, whichis roughly eight-ish weeks.
Kind of depends on the weather,'cause the time of the year,
but.
I divide'em by the sex at theeight weeks.
(01:21):
So one end of the run, I have 12runs, right?
And so on one side I do all thecock rolls on the other side, I
do all the pulls.
So there is some separation.
Carey (01:32):
Why do you do that?
Jennifer (01:33):
Just because the boys grow bigger, more feed hog.
I don't know.
It just seems like the rightthing to do, but I never, I just
started doing it and I've alwaysdone it.
I can't remember why I starteddoing it, but one thing I am
observing this year, which Ihave never noticed before, is.
(01:54):
I have done multiple M meetingsand so I have several cock birds
and you only need them for what,four to six weeks and then the
rest of the year they're hangingout.
They were in a run bythemselves.
Hanging out in between findingsome girls and the young cock
(02:16):
rolls migrated over to roostwith them, like they went over
the fence to roost with'em.
And so I left them because they,the boys didn't care.
And I was like, okay, as long asyou don't kill'em, you can keep
'em as like your children orwhatever.
I don't know, but they werefine.
But my point being is I havemore groups than I have cock
(02:44):
birds and the cock rolls thathave grown up with the cock
birds are not maturing.
As quickly, and they're puttingall of their energy into growing
size, and so even at six months,they look like Strangly
(03:07):
teenagers, but the boys who wereon their own or may have been
mixed up with pulls just becauseI misgendered them when I moved
them.
Have bigger combs that aregetting their hackle feathers
and their sickle feathers at ayounger age, and they don't seem
(03:30):
to be growing as large as theones that had that dominant cock
bird in with them.
And
Carey (03:40):
What's their temperament like?
Jennifer (03:42):
They're, or paintings, you can just, sit down and sit
with them.
Carey (03:47):
So they're still pretty chill birds.
Yeah.
Nobody's acting stupid ornothing like that.
Jennifer (03:53):
No, but the obs it's at this point, just an
observation.
I would probably need to talk toone of my mentors, my old timers
to see if that is really athing.
But.
The massive size of these Rosthat are with the cock birds,
(04:14):
they, the cock birds are now thesmallest birds in those runs.
That's how much of a differencethere is.
And I don't have small birds.
Carey (04:25):
So what are you doing?
What have you done this yearversus last year different?
And you don't have to like, giveany names or nothing like that.
What have you done?
Jennifer (04:38):
I did more controlled matings, like I didn't do, oh
you're pretty, let's put youwith this one.
It was more.
What family are you with?
And I need to move you down thisway.
So like JC would've been mybiggest bird and I bred him to
(05:00):
his daughters.
And so now the pullets off ofhim would be his.
I was teasing with David lastnight.
They would be his daughtersslash granddaughters.
Line breeding him.
So that was one.
And then I did an outcross to adifferent line because I liked
(05:21):
the color on her bch.
So I brought one of her cockbirds over.
And then those birds, that wasone of the last matings.
And so those birds are stillyoung, so I haven't assessed
them yet.
And then I had one that onemating.
The only reason I put the birdstogether was for the length of
(05:45):
back, I mean his back.
I probably need to put a tapemeasure on it if I'm not good
with measurements off the top ofmy head.
But if I just had to guess.
From shoulder to base of histail, 16, 17 inches.
Carey (06:05):
Wow.
Jennifer (06:06):
Yeah, he's a massive long bird, and so I went and
found my longest backed hens.
And put with him.
And so that was actually my lathey're actually still together
today.
I need to break'em up.
But, so that was my actuallylast pairing.
(06:26):
And so those chicks are stillway too young to really assess
how that worked.
So
Carey (06:34):
I've been changing some of the stuff that I've done.
Like this year,'cause I'm a fanof incubating in the wintertime.
Because to me, keeping a chickwarm is a lot easier than
keeping a chick not too hot.
And, semi-mature or at least athree, four month old bird, in
(06:58):
my experience, can handle theextreme heat of the summer.
Or even a year old, or six eightmonth old bird can handle the
heat of the summer better than achick.
That's just my thing.
But what I'm doing is I'm thetaking the approach of why
should I keep you instead of,oh, you're pretty like what you
(07:24):
said, you ha you're pretty, letme put you here and let me put
you there.
I'm being, I've learned a wholelot.
Over the last couple of yearsfrom a couple of different
people, and I'm starting topurposefully select this for
that to make it better, if thatmakes sense.
(07:46):
Because the better we are asbreeders and improving the birds
that we look for.
Health should be what?
One of our deciding factors likevigor, health, survivability,
(08:09):
what's some other words peopleuse?
Jennifer (08:11):
I don't know.
You totally got me all backwardsthe way we started today.
Carey (08:17):
Sorry.
I was trying to like for once Iwas the one that was trying to
be focused guys and.
It just messed Jennifer up,which is, I guess why the other
works better.
Jennifer (08:30):
It's fine.
I needed to finish my train ofthought and I did, and maybe
somebody knows the answer.
If you already know, if it'salready a thing growing birds
out with the cock birds, slowstheir maturity down then send us
a message and say I knew thatalready, or.
Hey, I'm gonna try it next timeor whatever, but
Carey (08:49):
like for me, so I have a couple, I call'em grandma
chickens.
Great.
They're really good at henhatching.
They will lay where they'resupposed to, like clockwork.
People say, how do you teachyour birds how you're to lay in
(09:11):
a nest box?
I'm like, I don't, grandma does,because I'll take that hen out
of the brood pen when I'm nolonger brooding and when I've
got, chicks in the grow out andwhen they're little grandma's in
there with all of them before Iseparate boys and girls.
They see her getting in thenest.
(09:33):
And they'll do that.
They see her doing chickenthings and they do that.
So for me, at least with thehint, it helps.
And I've also had situationswhere grandpa has been in with
the boys, and boys, sometimesthey'll get stupid and wanna
(09:55):
fight and act dumb.
No matter how docile yourchickens are when they're
teenagers, let's be honest, allteenagers do stupid stuff.
Especially on Carter Avenue.
Grandpa will go over there andlike pop right in the middle of
him and start crowing like crazyy'all shut up.
(10:15):
Get outta here.
Jennifer (10:16):
Kinda rip on Yellowstone if you wanna fight.
Fight with me.
Carey (10:19):
Yeah, that's a really good example.
Jennifer (10:24):
You actually bring up Another thing that I noticed and
didn't remember till just now isthe birds that are with the cock
birds are roosting and haveroosted since they were like
eight weeks old, whereas theones that are without are still
sleeping in mosh pits.
Carey (10:43):
Yeah.
And see, so for what originallybrought that to my attention is
last winter.
For the first time ever I lethand hatch happen.
I have, I raised Game Foul andLarge Foul and now I have a
Birand just one.
(11:05):
But Christie loved it.
So my friend's you can take ithome.
She likes it'cause she just hada fit.
But anyway, it was cold and Iwas like, these things are never
hatching.
I'm not, she is hell bent onsetting on'em.
I'll just wait a week or two orthree.
(11:28):
Not quite all of the three.
'cause I don't want'em to smell.
Wait a couple weeks I'll get'emout, fight with her and boom.
Done.
I lost track of time.
They hatched.
And within four weeks, thosechicks was like five, six feet
up in the air on a roof pole.
(11:48):
And because I went out one nightto check on'em and I'm looking
around, I'm, oh they weren't asvigorous as I thought.
And then I start hearingchirping sounds.
I'm like, oh, okay, maybe theygot outta the fence.
'cause the fence that they're inis two by four wire, but the
first.
Can't remember if it's 18 or 24inch hardware cloth, but that
(12:13):
the first, that much all the wayaround it is hardware cloth.
But that big, they would stillget out from time to time, but
they could also fly back in.
And I'm looking around justdark.
They're black.
I think one of'em is like a darkbrown, but for the rest they're
black chickens and.
I look up'cause I hear the henmaking noise.
(12:35):
I'm like they're on a roos poleright up under her.
They're only a month old.
What the crap?
But, chickens they learn how tochicken a lot more when they're
with that example.
Jennifer (12:52):
Yep.
Do you want to move over to ouractual subject for the day?
Carey (12:59):
All of that leads into assessing your chickens for
health.
Jennifer (13:04):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
It's not a big leap.
So today, welcome poultry nerds.
On today's episode, we're gonnatalk about assessing your
chicken's health.
And we have, I have an outlineand we're gonna follow it for
(13:26):
the rest of the, for the rest ofthe time.
Carey (13:28):
Okay.
Jennifer (13:30):
The idea that I had behind the podcast was like
assessing your live birds, butthat, and that would be the
first part, but then you might.
Need to assess a dead bird,which is called a necropsy.
Or when you're harvesting birds,then you also need to kinda pay
(13:53):
attention to what's going oninside of'em to make sure,
they're healthy for you to eatand it gives you insight into
the rest of your flock also.
Carey (14:02):
Yeah.
If you're gonna harvest 20birds, I'm not gonna deep dive.
All 20 of'em.
Jennifer (14:12):
No,
Carey (14:12):
I'm gonna probably go ahead and get it outta the way
pretty quick, and I'm gonna lookat a couple of them and I'm
gonna take my time with thoseand if I'm satisfied with those,
I'm ready for some chicken.
Jennifer (14:28):
Yeah, I have some in the cooler.
I'm gonna bag'em up tomorrow.
Okay.
So let's just start at the top.
So we have live birds.
We're starting at the top.
So you have the chicken's head.
You wanna make sure it's freefrom scabs the eyes.
The scabs would be fightingwould be foul px being picked
(14:52):
on.
Carey (14:54):
Yeah.
Some kind of disease.
Jennifer (14:56):
Yeah, just you can
Carey (14:57):
Tell that they're a little sickly on the.
At their comb and waddle aroundtheir head and stuff.
Jennifer (15:04):
Yeah, you wanna make sure they're bright red.
They're firm.
They're not real pale.
Now I'm gonna say that I don'tknow if this is true for every
breed.
My orpington birds will, theircombs will turn bluish on the
(15:25):
blade.
And then the next day they'll befine.
So I think it's a sign ofhormones, a sign of heat or
stress or something's going onwith them.
So if I see my orpingtons getblue on the blade I don't get
concerned.
I did it first, but it's.
(15:47):
It's most of my birds, it's soit's not just a handful of them.
So it's something, I don't knowif it's in every bird or if it's
just my line.
Do your B birds do that at all?
Carey (15:58):
So like with mine, when they're young it'll be a little
pale until somewhere around thesix to 10 week mark.
And that depends on whether it'smy breasts, my reds.
Or one of my game foul.
And then they'll change.
(16:21):
I call it puberty.
It'll change and they'll getreally red.
And it is not uncommon for me tosee a color variation, but when
I'm walking the yard, I makenote of that variation, and a
day or two later, I'm gonna lookagain.
(16:41):
Because what you said, yourschanged color, but then they're
back.
If a bird changes color on theircomb and waddles, that's not a
panic.
Let's go grab some antibiotics.
Put tons of crap in their water.
That's not that.
I would say the most extreme youshould go to is grab that bird,
(17:05):
put it in a drop pin on theother side of your yard.
And look at it again in a day ortwo.
Jennifer (17:12):
We're gonna have Dr.
Morris on in a couple weeks andwe're gonna talk to her about
combs and Waddles.
We need to put that on our list.
Yeah, we can do that.
Turn blue.
But the bird in my mind when Iwas talking about it is five.
My big cock bird in the back andhe's five years old.
That is not why he is calledfive, but that's, his name is
(17:32):
five, but, and he is five.
But his comb for his entire lifewill be red and then it'll be
blue and it'll come back to red.
And
Carey (17:43):
he's just, but I think that's neat.
Jennifer (17:46):
It is when you have observed your verge as hard as I
have and know that it happens,but
Carey (17:52):
that first time,
Jennifer (17:54):
yeah.
That first time you're like, ohmy God, my bird's gonna die.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we've talked about combs andWaddles.
Carey (18:04):
Yeah.
Jennifer (18:05):
Eyes need to be clear.
No discharge, no cloudiness.
The pupils need to be round andthe same color on both sides of
their head.
So it's funny because peoplelike you're left-handed.
I'm right-handed, so I carry mybirds in my left hand.
How do you carry?
You carry yours in your righthand.
Carey (18:24):
No, I carry mine in my left hand.
Like a football?
Jennifer (18:26):
Yeah.
Okay.
So their head's under your arm?
Carey (18:30):
No, like head forward.
Jennifer (18:32):
Oh, okay.
I carry mine backwards sometimesbecause
Carey (18:34):
I'll probably pet'em with my right hand.
Jennifer (18:36):
Okay.
So e either way you're lookingat the eye closest to you, and
if you always carry them in yourleft hand, you may never turn'em
around to look at their othereye.
Carey (18:47):
No, but I'll grab their head and spin it, be like,
Jennifer (18:50):
but you gotta make a point to do it, is what I'm
saying.
Oh
Carey (18:52):
yeah.
You gotta do that.
Either do it while you'recarrying them, or Jeff talks
about, get your bucket, flip itupside down, and go sit in the
run and watch your birds.
But observing them is probably.
The best way to figure out allof it.
Really.
Jennifer (19:11):
Yep.
Okay.
So we've got clear eyes, samecolor, no discharge from the
eyes and nostrils.
If you do, you've got some kindof respiratory thing going on.
And the best thing you can do,in my opinion, is throw'em
outside in the grass, get'emsome nice fresh air.
But that's for another day.
The beak should line up, not becross beak, not be badly
(19:36):
overhanging, not be broken andcracked.
Carey (19:41):
Yeah, you don't want your beak to look like your chicken
needs braces.
Jennifer (19:45):
You can trim it.
I have trimmed beaks for shows.
I use the dog nail clippers.
And you never go at it with, letme cut an inch and a half off of
it.
You want to cut off a bladeswhip?
And then a blades width.
And then a blades width.
Carey (20:05):
I think with that, the only thing you're really trying
to do is get the point down.
Jennifer (20:10):
Yeah, and get'em to line up and a good solid Emory
board or rasp or something tosmooth it out a little bit.
Carey (20:20):
Yep.
And then you give it a bath anda pedicure.
Jennifer (20:26):
Yes, you can do that too.
Carey (20:28):
If you're getting it ready for a show, might as well
do it right.
Jennifer (20:31):
Feathers should be in good shape.
You need to check'em for mitesand lice.
So a lot of people actuallydon't know how to check their
birds for mice and lights mightmites and lice and
Carey (20:41):
to me, that's a weird, that's a weird thing.
Having, okay, so on my breasts,it's pretty easy.
I'll grab it like this.
With its legs on either side ofmy hand.
I'll use my thumb and my pinkyto wrap around its ankles, flip
it upside down, pull the wingout, and if there's mites, it's
(21:06):
a white bird.
Boom, they're right there.
Jennifer (21:10):
Okay, so we're looking at the vent and we're looking
for moving freckles.
That's exactly how I do it.
The caveat, if you are new tothat, is it has to be done
within seconds because Yeah.
Carey (21:27):
cause they'll jump.
Jennifer (21:28):
They leave the light.
So once you separate thefeathers, they're scattering.
So when we say pick'em up, movethe feathers, look at the vent.
Six seconds.
Carey (21:39):
It's like cockroaches in the barn when you turn the light
on,
Jennifer (21:42):
right?
Lice is gonna look at the baseof the feathers.
Looks like a Q-tip wrappedaround the feather shaft.
And then they could be whitefreckles that are moving and
you'll see them like on theircomb or on their eyes or on
their ear lobes.
(22:03):
And if you are bathing them, thelice will go to their head, like
fleas on a dog.
Go away from the water and thenyou can really see them.
So that's what you're lookingfor there?
Carey (22:17):
Yep.
Jennifer (22:18):
Okay.
Scaly leg mites.
The nemesis that I have in thebackfield, I, they're in the
backfield.
I don't know where.
So I have a problem with themback there.
So a chicken's leg has scalesand it should be very smooth.
You should be able to run yourfingers down it and really not
even feel the scales so much.
(22:41):
However, if you look at it, andit looks like a ladder that
somebody could climb up, or astaircase that somebody could
climb up, a little bitty tinyperson could climb up.
Those scales are lifted becausethe mites are under the scale,
and as they engorge themselves,it causes the scale to lift.
(23:06):
That is not a good thing.
So I went to the a PA website afew years ago and it suggested
VIX Vapo Rub.
And basically what you're doingthere is you're smothering them
and, that will kill them.
Having done that several times,I am of the opinion that would
(23:30):
work better on like a banum thatmight be up in a cage.
On clean bedding.
Carey (23:38):
Yeah.
Jennifer (23:39):
Not an orpington running the field.
Yeah.
It didn't work.
So the next step I tried waswashing with Dawn and then
coding with the vix.
That did work, but I had torepeat it like three times.
(23:59):
Then I went to the box store andI bought some mite spray.
The citric oil stuff that you,yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Might as well have used thedawn.
So there was that, and then lastyear I finally caved and bought
some PSP and one squirt each legthrew'em back out in the field.
Carey (24:24):
It's funny you say caved.
Jennifer (24:26):
No more.
That
Carey (24:28):
stuff is like stupid expensive.
Jennifer (24:33):
Oh my gosh.
It's crazy, but I mean for howmuch?
But it works.
Birds I've got and how much timeI was spending on fighting these
stupid scaly leg mites and it'sonly one pen.
Nothing else has them.
Okay.
So it's gotta be, they've gottabe in the field in the back
(24:56):
somewhere.
And that's six acres.
How would I ever find them?
Carey (25:00):
So what you do is you take your tractor and get your
spreader and put you about a tonof lime in there.
Jennifer (25:08):
Yeah.
Or probably in your spare time.
Carey (25:11):
Yeah.
Jennifer (25:12):
So that's, I know that I say I never medicate and
hospitalize and blah, blah,blah, and I really don't, but
when it comes to leg scaly,
Carey (25:20):
You're killing bugs.
Jennifer (25:21):
Hang it up and put some PSP on it.
And I wish I had bought ateaspoon off of somebody,
because I think it's eightounces is a hundred and.
70 bucks or something like that.
And I've literally used onesquirt bottle of it in two
years.
Carey (25:40):
Yeah.
Like the eight ounce, is iteight or 32?
Jennifer (25:44):
No, I got the little tiny one that you can lose
really easily.
Yeah.
Another good way to lose$170 isto lose the little bottle,
Carey (25:53):
but I know it's probably in your barn somewhere.
Jennifer (25:56):
No, I know where it is.
It's oh, you
Carey (25:57):
found it.
Jennifer (25:58):
I know exactly where it is.
Carey (25:59):
Okay.
Yep.
Jennifer (26:02):
Okay.
Feet.
We talked about the legs.
We're down to the feet.
We wanna make sure they don'thave bumblefoot.
They're not bruised in any way.
The nails are trimmed and ingood shape.
I have seen chickens, usuallyit's the ones with the leg m
they get really long toenails,that kind of curl.
(26:23):
Like that guy that you see onthe Guinness World Records, oh,
stop.
You had to go
Carey (26:27):
there.
Jennifer (26:28):
It's nasty.
That is
Carey (26:30):
gross.
Jennifer (26:30):
But those chickens, their nails will go crook like
that.
Carey (26:33):
That's why you get some really good sandpaper and staple
it to your roofs polessomewhere.
Jennifer (26:41):
That's not nice.
Carey (26:43):
Just on one end.
It's not like they're all havingto do it.
You'd be surprised.
Freaking chickens will go overthere and rub on it.
I've seen beaks rubbed on it andI've seen feet rubbed on it.
Jennifer (26:56):
I think Gina uses a cinder block, doesn't she?
Carey (27:00):
I know she has a cinder block in her run because she has
grit in one side and oystershells in the other.
But
Jennifer (27:08):
on that block,
Carey (27:10):
yeah.
Something like that.
It's just, it's no differentthan a dog.
A dog's toenails are not gonnaget excessively long if they're
outside walking around on rocksand dirt and stuff.
Jennifer (27:25):
Yeah, we've never turned ladies.
Okay.
So at this point in our outline,the bird could be alive or not.
Carey (27:37):
Yep.
Jennifer (27:37):
You can still do all of those things with a dead
bird, but live would be great.
Carey (27:43):
Yeah.
Jennifer (27:44):
So now at this point, if you walk out into your coop,
you have a dead bird and youreally need to know.
What happened to it?
You have a couple choices.
One, you could bag it, freezeit, and take it to your state
lab for a necropsy.
Here in Tennessee, it was$20.
The last time I did it, whichwas probably 15 years ago,
Carey (28:07):
35 in Alabama.
Jennifer (28:09):
35.
Okay.
So you just have to call yourstate lab and ask them.
And I have seen a lot of thereports, people post them online
and you have to almost have aPhD or read between the lines to
assess the the report.
So just keep
Carey (28:27):
or they're not detailed for crap.
Nope.
Jennifer (28:31):
We think it could be this.
Carey (28:33):
I've seen'em vary.
Very direct.
And have words that were liketwo and three inches long.
And I've seen them sayessentially inconclusive.
I ain't paying$30 to figure thatout.
I'll just look at it myself.
Jennifer (28:49):
Well,$30 plus your time to take it up there and
back.
Carey (28:52):
We can actually ship'em in Alabama.
Jennifer (28:54):
Oh, okay.
Carey (28:55):
If you freeze it and send it with dry ice.
Oh
Jennifer (28:59):
Yeah.
Carey (28:59):
Which, you're gonna have to ship it frozen with about 10
bucks worth of dry ice in it.
Jennifer (29:07):
And over in
Carey (29:08):
a cooler, so yeah.
Jennifer (29:11):
Okay.
Or you could do it yourself.
And you don't really need to bea doctor to do it because we're
just kinda looking at the mainthings.
So you're going to lay the birdon its back and you're gonna
basically undress it.
So to expose the breast meatand.
(29:32):
In order to make it lay flat, ifyou've never done it, you're
going to put it on its back andthen you're gonna put, its your
hands on its haw joints andpress down and that will
dislocate the hips and cause itto lay flat for you.
And that's a good trick to do.
(29:54):
If you are cleaning one for theoven too, you can dislocate'em.
Carey (29:59):
And I wanna say.
That people, this probablybrings up the question of how or
what, or there's a lot of videoson how to cut up a chicken.
There's necropsy videos thathave been done by veterinarians
that show you things to lookfor, but I wanna say, make sure
(30:24):
you have scissors.
And a sharp knife.
Now Cutco is a brand that Ilike.
I was turned onto those by myOh, who turned me onto those?
Jennifer (30:42):
I have a pair,
Carey (30:45):
but it wasn't you.
Jennifer (30:46):
It's a long time ago.
See, we're getting old.
Carey (30:48):
Yeah, it's, it is been a while because at first I was
like.
A hundred.
A hundred what?
Jennifer (30:55):
A hundred dollars?
Carey (30:57):
Like these scissors for a hundred to 150 bucks.
These scissors should cut it upfor me.
But having used 15 and$20 pairof poultry shears and using cut
coats, you get what you pay for.
And if you want it to be a quickprocess and less taxing on your
(31:20):
hands, if you do a lot of them.
Get the Cutco and get you a goodknife.
Jennifer (31:26):
Or after you buy six pairs of the$15 ones, you end up
buying Cutco.
You spent twice as much money.
Carey (31:32):
Yeah, you spent double.
Jennifer (31:35):
So anyway, you're going to undress them and expose
the breast meat, dislocate thehips so they kinda lay flat.
You are going to pull the skinback.
You're looking for bruising.
Discoloration is the keel Bonestraight.
Is it scrawny for its age andwhat you were expecting, like a
(31:59):
sign of nutrition and that won'tnecess, it could mean that
you're not feeding correctly,but it could also mean internal
parasites or bullying or not ina feeder space, which we need to
talk about one day.
Yeah,
Carey (32:15):
that's like a whole episode in itself.
Jennifer (32:18):
Yep.
And lots of reasons formalnutrition, but this
particular episode we're talkingabout right now is just the
highlights of things you can belooking for, and then you can
dig deeper into what might causethose.
Carey (32:32):
Yeah.
Jennifer (32:32):
Excessive fat in the body cavity.
That was actually brought to myattention from like my best
friend in Michigan.
She butchers her Americana's,she sends me a picture, which I
sent to you and you sent to Jeffand we're like, what in the
world?
This chicken was like half fat.
Carey (32:50):
Yeah,
Jennifer (32:51):
you had four pounds of meat and four pounds of fat.
And I'm like, what in the worldare you feeding this thing?
And come to find out when Iasked her that, but she listens
to me and so she was feeding theKBA off lock, but she didn't
tell me was, she was sitting outthere in the laundry giving'em
mealworms and black soldierflies and salad and yogurt and
Carey (33:15):
Oh wow.
Jennifer (33:18):
So you're like feeding your chickens to death.
Carey (33:23):
So she, yeah, if you see I'm gonna say a dime sized
golden piece of fat, you'regood.
If you're talking silverdollars, large quarters, even,
unless they're like really thin,like hunks.
(33:45):
That bird's overweight.
Jennifer (33:47):
Yep.
So just, keep your in mind.
And an older bird's gonna havemore fat than a younger bird.
A sedentary bird, it was likekept in a small cage, might have
more.
So just keep that in mind.
Like these are just things tolook for.
And then step back and look atthe big picture that you have
going on in your farm.
The next thing you're gonna lookat is the liver.
(34:09):
That should be like a, it's likea maroonish red color.
It's not supposed to have greenspots or yellow spots or white
spots, or be like a palewhiteish color.
It should be a nice, clean.
What you think of when you thinkof beef liver, that maroon
(34:31):
color.
So yeah.
The gallbladder is gonna be likethis little tiny thing, maybe
the size of your pinky nailbehind the liver.
And if you break it, it willleak this lime green fluorescent
goo on everything completelynormal.
(34:52):
Don't let that freak you out.
The heart should be pink andfirm.
Jeff told me the other day whenI was talking to him that mushy
is a sign of heat stress if youhave a mushy heart.
Carey (35:05):
We are in the south.
Jennifer (35:06):
Yeah, that's true.
The lungs should be nice andpink.
Kinda uni.
We're looking for uniformity andcolor.
Anything that's not uniform is asign of an issue.
The colon, the intestines, youcan actually just slice those
open.
They're just, they're hollow.
They're like a host.
A water hose, just slice'em openand look in'em.
(35:28):
And you're looking for worms?
Blood.
Yeah.
You can along,
Carey (35:37):
but me, they're semi like, not, they're not
transparent, but I guess you'dcall it opaque.
And if you see something in amoving.
Or if you see more red than theguts, you know there's a
(35:59):
problem.
I don't need to cut it open andlook and see exactly what it is.
Jennifer (36:04):
See, I'm all up in there.
I'm like, what is that?
Lemme look.
Just don't see
Carey (36:09):
Okay.
In high school I was almost 19when I graduated'cause my
birthday's late, blah, blah,blah.
So my senior year in highschool, I worked in the meat
market and grocery store.
So going through all that, hey,no problem.
I would cut up steaks like thewhole chunk on the saw, standing
(36:29):
in that red stuff.
No problem.
Checking out the inside of theintestines.
No boy, not happy.
Like you into a chitlin supper,you're saying?
No.
And even as an adult I haveenough kids to have a football
team that I've been responsiblefor, but like that kind of
(36:54):
diaper I can't do I will lose mymost recent meal if it was
yesterday even.
It gets me that bad.
Everything else, I'm good.
Pinky hanging off bleeding.
Bone popped out.
Whatever.
I'm good.
That, Nope.
Jennifer (37:11):
See, I'm good.
Vomit.
I'm out.
Out.
Carey (37:15):
Oh yeah that's the, no, can't do that.
Jennifer (37:17):
All right.
So the most common questionabout this kind of stuff that I
get in my messages is what kindof, tools do I use and I'm
pretty crude.
We have an old piece of granitethat I lay either on a fish
cleaning table or on thetailgate of the gator.
(37:38):
We use the Cutco scissors.
I have a sharp knife.
I do have a Cutco knife, butactually you brought a set up
and I bought a set just like it,it's like a$30 set off of Amazon
and that knife.
Will like slice tea look
Carey (37:52):
That meat cleaver is probably an eighth of an inch
thick.
Yeah.
And it is.
It's serious.
Jennifer (37:59):
Yeah.
And 30 bucks.
Carey (38:01):
Yeah.
Jennifer (38:02):
And so we have a couple knives, just whatever
floats your boat.
David insists that I wear cutproof gloves.
I think they have glass fibersor something in them.
You can bleach'em in the washingmachine afterwards or run'em
through dishwasher.
But you can take the knife andthat, that knife and go across
(38:23):
your fingers and it will not cutyou.
But because I'm accident prone,he insists if I'm going to
butcher chickens to do that.
As far as the actual dispatchingis concerned we have a couple of
methods.
We have the old school hatchetmethod.
The broomstick method is my newfavorite because I can do it by
(38:45):
myself.
And I don't need him to comehelp me.
Because again, the whole hatchetcutting the arm off thing, he's
not a fan.
And then the the cutting of thejugular.
I tried that with a Turkeyactually Saturday and it worked
really nice.
Carey (39:01):
Really?
Jennifer (39:02):
Yes.
Again, it was like
Carey (39:04):
turkeys or they're two people.
Jennifer (39:07):
Yeah, but I could have done, Taylor was with me, but I
could have done it by myself, Ithink.
Carey (39:13):
I gotta see this.
Jennifer (39:14):
Yeah, because
Carey (39:15):
that's, that'll be something.
Jennifer (39:17):
So you don't really need a whole lot of stuff.
We did have a scalar going.
I did have my, I have a pluck.
So we had the pluck her out.
Scalar needs to be at 155degrees.
It's very important it be at155.
'cause you don't wanna cook thebird and you don't want it too
cool.
You need to switch them withtheir feet to get that water and
(39:38):
everything wet.
And put'em in the pluck.
We've tried it with the hose andwithout the hose.
Taylor, my son was doing it andhe likes to do it without the
hose, so we did it without thehose.
Carey (39:51):
Less of a mess.
Jennifer (39:52):
Yeah.
We just laid old feedbackunderneath the pluck.
When we were done, we justrolled the feathers right up
into the feedback.
So there wasn't even a mess whenwe were done.
So we did 10 chickens and oneTurkey in, I don't know, about
an hour and a half.
Carey (40:11):
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
So long story short, when you'relooking at this stuff, if you go
to poultry nerds podcast.com,there's some reference papers
that we've gotten from Dr.
Morida that has pictures.
Talks about different diseasesand what you may find.
(40:32):
So if you wanna go there to helpidentify, no problem.
It's not uncommon for either oneof us to get pictures of that or
poop.
Our Facebook messenger.
Good morning.
Hey.
Yeah, good morning.
My chicken's poop looks likethis.
What's wrong with it?
We're, use us as a resource.
(40:54):
That's why we're here.
We have fun.
Yes.
But we like to teach people andlike to be a resource so
Jennifer (41:02):
we don't give us a
Carey (41:02):
shout.
Jennifer (41:03):
The answer.
Carey (41:04):
If you want to, you can email info@poultrynerds.com.
Poultry nerds podcast.com.
That comes to us.
So yeah, we'll help you out.
Jennifer (41:16):
All right.
Till next time,
Carey (41:17):
have a good one.
So I have a, I'm growing out all of these birds
and taking like extreme amountof notes on them.
Yeah.
Per band number.
Okay.
So one of the things I havenoticed, Observation wise is the
Carey (00:18):
so today we're gonna talk about assessing your chicken's
health.
And I called Jennifer and shedidn't realize it until just now
that she was fixing to tell meabout her, assessing her
Orpingtons.
So let's talk about it.
Jennifer (00:38):
I wasn't prepared to talk about that on air though.
I was just talking to you.
Carey (00:43):
You're notice, you're noticing some things and you're
documenting a whole lot.
I am.
And that's important whetheryou're showing chickens or
whether you're building ahomestead.
Jennifer (00:59):
Okay, so what I was fixing to say was that an
observation that I am making isI divide my Orpingtons when I
take'em out of the barn, whichis roughly eight-ish weeks.
Kind of depends on the weather,'cause the time of the year,
but.
I divide'em by the sex at theeight weeks.
(01:21):
So one end of the run, I have 12runs, right?
And so on one side I do all thecock rolls on the other side, I
do all the pulls.
So there is some separation.
Carey (01:32):
Why do you do that?
Jennifer (01:33):
Just because the boys grow bigger, more feed hog.
I don't know.
It just seems like the rightthing to do, but I never, I just
started doing it and I've alwaysdone it.
I can't remember why I starteddoing it, but one thing I am
observing this year, which Ihave never noticed before, is.
(01:54):
I have done multiple M meetingsand so I have several cock birds
and you only need them for what,four to six weeks and then the
rest of the year they're hangingout.
They were in a run bythemselves.
Hanging out in between findingsome girls and the young cock
(02:16):
rolls migrated over to roostwith them, like they went over
the fence to roost with'em.
And so I left them because they,the boys didn't care.
And I was like, okay, as long asyou don't kill'em, you can keep
'em as like your children orwhatever.
I don't know, but they werefine.
But my point being is I havemore groups than I have cock
(02:44):
birds and the cock rolls thathave grown up with the cock
birds are not maturing.
As quickly, and they're puttingall of their energy into growing
size, and so even at six months,they look like Strangly
(03:07):
teenagers, but the boys who wereon their own or may have been
mixed up with pulls just becauseI misgendered them when I moved
them.
Have bigger combs that aregetting their hackle feathers
and their sickle feathers at ayounger age, and they don't seem
(03:30):
to be growing as large as theones that had that dominant cock
bird in with them.
And
Carey (03:40):
What's their temperament like?
Jennifer (03:42):
They're, or paintings, you can just, sit down and sit
with them.
Carey (03:47):
So they're still pretty chill birds.
Yeah.
Nobody's acting stupid ornothing like that.
Jennifer (03:53):
No, but the obs it's at this point, just an
observation.
I would probably need to talk toone of my mentors, my old timers
to see if that is really athing.
But.
The massive size of these Rosthat are with the cock birds,
(04:14):
they, the cock birds are now thesmallest birds in those runs.
That's how much of a differencethere is.
And I don't have small birds.
Carey (04:25):
So what are you doing?
What have you done this yearversus last year different?
And you don't have to like, giveany names or nothing like that.
What have you done?
Jennifer (04:38):
I did more controlled matings, like I didn't do, oh
you're pretty, let's put youwith this one.
It was more.
What family are you with?
And I need to move you down thisway.
So like JC would've been mybiggest bird and I bred him to
(05:00):
his daughters.
And so now the pullets off ofhim would be his.
I was teasing with David lastnight.
They would be his daughtersslash granddaughters.
Line breeding him.
So that was one.
And then I did an outcross to adifferent line because I liked
(05:21):
the color on her bch.
So I brought one of her cockbirds over.
And then those birds, that wasone of the last matings.
And so those birds are stillyoung, so I haven't assessed
them yet.
And then I had one that onemating.
The only reason I put the birdstogether was for the length of
(05:45):
back, I mean his back.
I probably need to put a tapemeasure on it if I'm not good
with measurements off the top ofmy head.
But if I just had to guess.
From shoulder to base of histail, 16, 17 inches.
Carey (06:05):
Wow.
Jennifer (06:06):
Yeah, he's a massive long bird, and so I went and
found my longest backed hens.
And put with him.
And so that was actually my lathey're actually still together
today.
I need to break'em up.
But, so that was my actuallylast pairing.
(06:26):
And so those chicks are stillway too young to really assess
how that worked.
So
Carey (06:34):
I've been changing some of the stuff that I've done.
Like this year,'cause I'm a fanof incubating in the wintertime.
Because to me, keeping a chickwarm is a lot easier than
keeping a chick not too hot.
And, semi-mature or at least athree, four month old bird, in
(06:58):
my experience, can handle theextreme heat of the summer.
Or even a year old, or six eightmonth old bird can handle the
heat of the summer better than achick.
That's just my thing.
But what I'm doing is I'm thetaking the approach of why
should I keep you instead of,oh, you're pretty like what you
(07:24):
said, you ha you're pretty, letme put you here and let me put
you there.
I'm being, I've learned a wholelot.
Over the last couple of yearsfrom a couple of different
people, and I'm starting topurposefully select this for
that to make it better, if thatmakes sense.
(07:46):
Because the better we are asbreeders and improving the birds
that we look for.
Health should be what?
One of our deciding factors likevigor, health, survivability,
(08:09):
what's some other words peopleuse?
Jennifer (08:11):
I don't know.
You totally got me all backwardsthe way we started today.
Carey (08:17):
Sorry.
I was trying to like for once Iwas the one that was trying to
be focused guys and.
It just messed Jennifer up,which is, I guess why the other
works better.
Jennifer (08:30):
It's fine.
I needed to finish my train ofthought and I did, and maybe
somebody knows the answer.
If you already know, if it'salready a thing growing birds
out with the cock birds, slowstheir maturity down then send us
a message and say I knew thatalready, or.
Hey, I'm gonna try it next timeor whatever, but
Carey (08:49):
like for me, so I have a couple, I call'em grandma
chickens.
Great.
They're really good at henhatching.
They will lay where they'resupposed to, like clockwork.
People say, how do you teachyour birds how you're to lay in
(09:11):
a nest box?
I'm like, I don't, grandma does,because I'll take that hen out
of the brood pen when I'm nolonger brooding and when I've
got, chicks in the grow out andwhen they're little grandma's in
there with all of them before Iseparate boys and girls.
They see her getting in thenest.
(09:33):
And they'll do that.
They see her doing chickenthings and they do that.
So for me, at least with thehint, it helps.
And I've also had situationswhere grandpa has been in with
the boys, and boys, sometimesthey'll get stupid and wanna
(09:55):
fight and act dumb.
No matter how docile yourchickens are when they're
teenagers, let's be honest, allteenagers do stupid stuff.
Especially on Carter Avenue.
Grandpa will go over there andlike pop right in the middle of
him and start crowing like crazyy'all shut up.
(10:15):
Get outta here.
Jennifer (10:16):
Kinda rip on Yellowstone if you wanna fight.
Fight with me.
Carey (10:19):
Yeah, that's a really good example.
Jennifer (10:24):
You actually bring up Another thing that I noticed and
didn't remember till just now isthe birds that are with the cock
birds are roosting and haveroosted since they were like
eight weeks old, whereas theones that are without are still
sleeping in mosh pits.
Carey (10:43):
Yeah.
And see, so for what originallybrought that to my attention is
last winter.
For the first time ever I lethand hatch happen.
I have, I raised Game Foul andLarge Foul and now I have a
Birand just one.
(11:05):
But Christie loved it.
So my friend's you can take ithome.
She likes it'cause she just hada fit.
But anyway, it was cold and Iwas like, these things are never
hatching.
I'm not, she is hell bent onsetting on'em.
I'll just wait a week or two orthree.
(11:28):
Not quite all of the three.
'cause I don't want'em to smell.
Wait a couple weeks I'll get'emout, fight with her and boom.
Done.
I lost track of time.
They hatched.
And within four weeks, thosechicks was like five, six feet
up in the air on a roof pole.
(11:48):
And because I went out one nightto check on'em and I'm looking
around, I'm, oh they weren't asvigorous as I thought.
And then I start hearingchirping sounds.
I'm like, oh, okay, maybe theygot outta the fence.
'cause the fence that they're inis two by four wire, but the
first.
Can't remember if it's 18 or 24inch hardware cloth, but that
(12:13):
the first, that much all the wayaround it is hardware cloth.
But that big, they would stillget out from time to time, but
they could also fly back in.
And I'm looking around justdark.
They're black.
I think one of'em is like a darkbrown, but for the rest they're
black chickens and.
I look up'cause I hear the henmaking noise.
(12:35):
I'm like they're on a roos poleright up under her.
They're only a month old.
What the crap?
But, chickens they learn how tochicken a lot more when they're
with that example.
Jennifer (12:52):
Yep.
Do you want to move over to ouractual subject for the day?
Carey (12:59):
All of that leads into assessing your chickens for
health.
Jennifer (13:04):
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
It's not a big leap.
So today, welcome poultry nerds.
On today's episode, we're gonnatalk about assessing your
chicken's health.
And we have, I have an outlineand we're gonna follow it for
(13:26):
the rest of the, for the rest ofthe time.
Carey (13:28):
Okay.
Jennifer (13:30):
The idea that I had behind the podcast was like
assessing your live birds, butthat, and that would be the
first part, but then you might.
Need to assess a dead bird,which is called a necropsy.
Or when you're harvesting birds,then you also need to kinda pay
(13:53):
attention to what's going oninside of'em to make sure,
they're healthy for you to eatand it gives you insight into
the rest of your flock also.
Carey (14:02):
Yeah.
If you're gonna harvest 20birds, I'm not gonna deep dive.
All 20 of'em.
Jennifer (14:12):
No,
Carey (14:12):
I'm gonna probably go ahead and get it outta the way
pretty quick, and I'm gonna lookat a couple of them and I'm
gonna take my time with thoseand if I'm satisfied with those,
I'm ready for some chicken.
Jennifer (14:28):
Yeah, I have some in the cooler.
I'm gonna bag'em up tomorrow.
Okay.
So let's just start at the top.
So we have live birds.
We're starting at the top.
So you have the chicken's head.
You wanna make sure it's freefrom scabs the eyes.
The scabs would be fightingwould be foul px being picked
(14:52):
on.
Carey (14:54):
Yeah.
Some kind of disease.
Jennifer (14:56):
Yeah, just you can
Carey (14:57):
Tell that they're a little sickly on the.
At their comb and waddle aroundtheir head and stuff.
Jennifer (15:04):
Yeah, you wanna make sure they're bright red.
They're firm.
They're not real pale.
Now I'm gonna say that I don'tknow if this is true for every
breed.
My orpington birds will, theircombs will turn bluish on the
(15:25):
blade.
And then the next day they'll befine.
So I think it's a sign ofhormones, a sign of heat or
stress or something's going onwith them.
So if I see my orpingtons getblue on the blade I don't get
concerned.
I did it first, but it's.
(15:47):
It's most of my birds, it's soit's not just a handful of them.
So it's something, I don't knowif it's in every bird or if it's
just my line.
Do your B birds do that at all?
Carey (15:58):
So like with mine, when they're young it'll be a little
pale until somewhere around thesix to 10 week mark.
And that depends on whether it'smy breasts, my reds.
Or one of my game foul.
And then they'll change.
(16:21):
I call it puberty.
It'll change and they'll getreally red.
And it is not uncommon for me tosee a color variation, but when
I'm walking the yard, I makenote of that variation, and a
day or two later, I'm gonna lookagain.
(16:41):
Because what you said, yourschanged color, but then they're
back.
If a bird changes color on theircomb and waddles, that's not a
panic.
Let's go grab some antibiotics.
Put tons of crap in their water.
That's not that.
I would say the most extreme youshould go to is grab that bird,
(17:05):
put it in a drop pin on theother side of your yard.
And look at it again in a day ortwo.
Jennifer (17:12):
We're gonna have Dr.
Morris on in a couple weeks andwe're gonna talk to her about
combs and Waddles.
We need to put that on our list.
Yeah, we can do that.
Turn blue.
But the bird in my mind when Iwas talking about it is five.
My big cock bird in the back andhe's five years old.
That is not why he is calledfive, but that's, his name is
(17:32):
five, but, and he is five.
But his comb for his entire lifewill be red and then it'll be
blue and it'll come back to red.
And
Carey (17:43):
he's just, but I think that's neat.
Jennifer (17:46):
It is when you have observed your verge as hard as I
have and know that it happens,but
Carey (17:52):
that first time,
Jennifer (17:54):
yeah.
That first time you're like, ohmy God, my bird's gonna die.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we've talked about combs andWaddles.
Carey (18:04):
Yeah.
Jennifer (18:05):
Eyes need to be clear.
No discharge, no cloudiness.
The pupils need to be round andthe same color on both sides of
their head.
So it's funny because peoplelike you're left-handed.
I'm right-handed, so I carry mybirds in my left hand.
How do you carry?
You carry yours in your righthand.
Carey (18:24):
No, I carry mine in my left hand.
Like a football?
Jennifer (18:26):
Yeah.
Okay.
So their head's under your arm?
Carey (18:30):
No, like head forward.
Jennifer (18:32):
Oh, okay.
I carry mine backwards sometimesbecause
Carey (18:34):
I'll probably pet'em with my right hand.
Jennifer (18:36):
Okay.
So e either way you're lookingat the eye closest to you, and
if you always carry them in yourleft hand, you may never turn'em
around to look at their othereye.
Carey (18:47):
No, but I'll grab their head and spin it, be like,
Jennifer (18:50):
but you gotta make a point to do it, is what I'm
saying.
Oh
Carey (18:52):
yeah.
You gotta do that.
Either do it while you'recarrying them, or Jeff talks
about, get your bucket, flip itupside down, and go sit in the
run and watch your birds.
But observing them is probably.
The best way to figure out allof it.
Really.
Jennifer (19:11):
Yep.
Okay.
So we've got clear eyes, samecolor, no discharge from the
eyes and nostrils.
If you do, you've got some kindof respiratory thing going on.
And the best thing you can do,in my opinion, is throw'em
outside in the grass, get'emsome nice fresh air.
But that's for another day.
The beak should line up, not becross beak, not be badly
(19:36):
overhanging, not be broken andcracked.
Carey (19:41):
Yeah, you don't want your beak to look like your chicken
needs braces.
Jennifer (19:45):
You can trim it.
I have trimmed beaks for shows.
I use the dog nail clippers.
And you never go at it with, letme cut an inch and a half off of
it.
You want to cut off a bladeswhip?
And then a blades width.
And then a blades width.
Carey (20:05):
I think with that, the only thing you're really trying
to do is get the point down.
Jennifer (20:10):
Yeah, and get'em to line up and a good solid Emory
board or rasp or something tosmooth it out a little bit.
Carey (20:20):
Yep.
And then you give it a bath anda pedicure.
Jennifer (20:26):
Yes, you can do that too.
Carey (20:28):
If you're getting it ready for a show, might as well
do it right.
Jennifer (20:31):
Feathers should be in good shape.
You need to check'em for mitesand lice.
So a lot of people actuallydon't know how to check their
birds for mice and lights mightmites and lice and
Carey (20:41):
to me, that's a weird, that's a weird thing.
Having, okay, so on my breasts,it's pretty easy.
I'll grab it like this.
With its legs on either side ofmy hand.
I'll use my thumb and my pinkyto wrap around its ankles, flip
it upside down, pull the wingout, and if there's mites, it's
(21:06):
a white bird.
Boom, they're right there.
Jennifer (21:10):
Okay, so we're looking at the vent and we're looking
for moving freckles.
That's exactly how I do it.
The caveat, if you are new tothat, is it has to be done
within seconds because Yeah.
Carey (21:27):
cause they'll jump.
Jennifer (21:28):
They leave the light.
So once you separate thefeathers, they're scattering.
So when we say pick'em up, movethe feathers, look at the vent.
Six seconds.
Carey (21:39):
It's like cockroaches in the barn when you turn the light
on,
Jennifer (21:42):
right?
Lice is gonna look at the baseof the feathers.
Looks like a Q-tip wrappedaround the feather shaft.
And then they could be whitefreckles that are moving and
you'll see them like on theircomb or on their eyes or on
their ear lobes.
(22:03):
And if you are bathing them, thelice will go to their head, like
fleas on a dog.
Go away from the water and thenyou can really see them.
So that's what you're lookingfor there?
Carey (22:17):
Yep.
Jennifer (22:18):
Okay.
Scaly leg mites.
The nemesis that I have in thebackfield, I, they're in the
backfield.
I don't know where.
So I have a problem with themback there.
So a chicken's leg has scalesand it should be very smooth.
You should be able to run yourfingers down it and really not
even feel the scales so much.
(22:41):
However, if you look at it, andit looks like a ladder that
somebody could climb up, or astaircase that somebody could
climb up, a little bitty tinyperson could climb up.
Those scales are lifted becausethe mites are under the scale,
and as they engorge themselves,it causes the scale to lift.
(23:06):
That is not a good thing.
So I went to the a PA website afew years ago and it suggested
VIX Vapo Rub.
And basically what you're doingthere is you're smothering them
and, that will kill them.
Having done that several times,I am of the opinion that would
(23:30):
work better on like a banum thatmight be up in a cage.
On clean bedding.
Carey (23:38):
Yeah.
Jennifer (23:39):
Not an orpington running the field.
Yeah.
It didn't work.
So the next step I tried waswashing with Dawn and then
coding with the vix.
That did work, but I had torepeat it like three times.
(23:59):
Then I went to the box store andI bought some mite spray.
The citric oil stuff that you,yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
Might as well have used thedawn.
So there was that, and then lastyear I finally caved and bought
some PSP and one squirt each legthrew'em back out in the field.
Carey (24:24):
It's funny you say caved.
Jennifer (24:26):
No more.
That
Carey (24:28):
stuff is like stupid expensive.
Jennifer (24:33):
Oh my gosh.
It's crazy, but I mean for howmuch?
But it works.
Birds I've got and how much timeI was spending on fighting these
stupid scaly leg mites and it'sonly one pen.
Nothing else has them.
Okay.
So it's gotta be, they've gottabe in the field in the back
(24:56):
somewhere.
And that's six acres.
How would I ever find them?
Carey (25:00):
So what you do is you take your tractor and get your
spreader and put you about a tonof lime in there.
Jennifer (25:08):
Yeah.
Or probably in your spare time.
Carey (25:11):
Yeah.
Jennifer (25:12):
So that's, I know that I say I never medicate and
hospitalize and blah, blah,blah, and I really don't, but
when it comes to leg scaly,
Carey (25:20):
You're killing bugs.
Jennifer (25:21):
Hang it up and put some PSP on it.
And I wish I had bought ateaspoon off of somebody,
because I think it's eightounces is a hundred and.
70 bucks or something like that.
And I've literally used onesquirt bottle of it in two
years.
Carey (25:40):
Yeah.
Like the eight ounce, is iteight or 32?
Jennifer (25:44):
No, I got the little tiny one that you can lose
really easily.
Yeah.
Another good way to lose$170 isto lose the little bottle,
Carey (25:53):
but I know it's probably in your barn somewhere.
Jennifer (25:56):
No, I know where it is.
It's oh, you
Carey (25:57):
found it.
Jennifer (25:58):
I know exactly where it is.
Carey (25:59):
Okay.
Yep.
Jennifer (26:02):
Okay.
Feet.
We talked about the legs.
We're down to the feet.
We wanna make sure they don'thave bumblefoot.
They're not bruised in any way.
The nails are trimmed and ingood shape.
I have seen chickens, usuallyit's the ones with the leg m
they get really long toenails,that kind of curl.
(26:23):
Like that guy that you see onthe Guinness World Records, oh,
stop.
You had to go
Carey (26:27):
there.
Jennifer (26:28):
It's nasty.
That is
Carey (26:30):
gross.
Jennifer (26:30):
But those chickens, their nails will go crook like
that.
Carey (26:33):
That's why you get some really good sandpaper and staple
it to your roofs polessomewhere.
Jennifer (26:41):
That's not nice.
Carey (26:43):
Just on one end.
It's not like they're all havingto do it.
You'd be surprised.
Freaking chickens will go overthere and rub on it.
I've seen beaks rubbed on it andI've seen feet rubbed on it.
Jennifer (26:56):
I think Gina uses a cinder block, doesn't she?
Carey (27:00):
I know she has a cinder block in her run because she has
grit in one side and oystershells in the other.
But
Jennifer (27:08):
on that block,
Carey (27:10):
yeah.
Something like that.
It's just, it's no differentthan a dog.
A dog's toenails are not gonnaget excessively long if they're
outside walking around on rocksand dirt and stuff.
Jennifer (27:25):
Yeah, we've never turned ladies.
Okay.
So at this point in our outline,the bird could be alive or not.
Carey (27:37):
Yep.
Jennifer (27:37):
You can still do all of those things with a dead
bird, but live would be great.
Carey (27:43):
Yeah.
Jennifer (27:44):
So now at this point, if you walk out into your coop,
you have a dead bird and youreally need to know.
What happened to it?
You have a couple choices.
One, you could bag it, freezeit, and take it to your state
lab for a necropsy.
Here in Tennessee, it was$20.
The last time I did it, whichwas probably 15 years ago,
Carey (28:07):
35 in Alabama.
Jennifer (28:09):
35.
Okay.
So you just have to call yourstate lab and ask them.
And I have seen a lot of thereports, people post them online
and you have to almost have aPhD or read between the lines to
assess the the report.
So just keep
Carey (28:27):
or they're not detailed for crap.
Nope.
Jennifer (28:31):
We think it could be this.
Carey (28:33):
I've seen'em vary.
Very direct.
And have words that were liketwo and three inches long.
And I've seen them sayessentially inconclusive.
I ain't paying$30 to figure thatout.
I'll just look at it myself.
Jennifer (28:49):
Well,$30 plus your time to take it up there and
back.
Carey (28:52):
We can actually ship'em in Alabama.
Jennifer (28:54):
Oh, okay.
Carey (28:55):
If you freeze it and send it with dry ice.
Oh
Jennifer (28:59):
Yeah.
Carey (28:59):
Which, you're gonna have to ship it frozen with about 10
bucks worth of dry ice in it.
Jennifer (29:07):
And over in
Carey (29:08):
a cooler, so yeah.
Jennifer (29:11):
Okay.
Or you could do it yourself.
And you don't really need to bea doctor to do it because we're
just kinda looking at the mainthings.
So you're going to lay the birdon its back and you're gonna
basically undress it.
So to expose the breast meatand.
(29:32):
In order to make it lay flat, ifyou've never done it, you're
going to put it on its back andthen you're gonna put, its your
hands on its haw joints andpress down and that will
dislocate the hips and cause itto lay flat for you.
And that's a good trick to do.
(29:54):
If you are cleaning one for theoven too, you can dislocate'em.
Carey (29:59):
And I wanna say.
That people, this probablybrings up the question of how or
what, or there's a lot of videoson how to cut up a chicken.
There's necropsy videos thathave been done by veterinarians
that show you things to lookfor, but I wanna say, make sure
(30:24):
you have scissors.
And a sharp knife.
Now Cutco is a brand that Ilike.
I was turned onto those by myOh, who turned me onto those?
Jennifer (30:42):
I have a pair,
Carey (30:45):
but it wasn't you.
Jennifer (30:46):
It's a long time ago.
See, we're getting old.
Carey (30:48):
Yeah, it's, it is been a while because at first I was
like.
A hundred.
A hundred what?
Jennifer (30:55):
A hundred dollars?
Carey (30:57):
Like these scissors for a hundred to 150 bucks.
These scissors should cut it upfor me.
But having used 15 and$20 pairof poultry shears and using cut
coats, you get what you pay for.
And if you want it to be a quickprocess and less taxing on your
(31:20):
hands, if you do a lot of them.
Get the Cutco and get you a goodknife.
Jennifer (31:26):
Or after you buy six pairs of the$15 ones, you end up
buying Cutco.
You spent twice as much money.
Carey (31:32):
Yeah, you spent double.
Jennifer (31:35):
So anyway, you're going to undress them and expose
the breast meat, dislocate thehips so they kinda lay flat.
You are going to pull the skinback.
You're looking for bruising.
Discoloration is the keel Bonestraight.
Is it scrawny for its age andwhat you were expecting, like a
(31:59):
sign of nutrition and that won'tnecess, it could mean that
you're not feeding correctly,but it could also mean internal
parasites or bullying or not ina feeder space, which we need to
talk about one day.
Yeah,
Carey (32:15):
that's like a whole episode in itself.
Jennifer (32:18):
Yep.
And lots of reasons formalnutrition, but this
particular episode we're talkingabout right now is just the
highlights of things you can belooking for, and then you can
dig deeper into what might causethose.
Carey (32:32):
Yeah.
Jennifer (32:32):
Excessive fat in the body cavity.
That was actually brought to myattention from like my best
friend in Michigan.
She butchers her Americana's,she sends me a picture, which I
sent to you and you sent to Jeffand we're like, what in the
world?
This chicken was like half fat.
Carey (32:50):
Yeah,
Jennifer (32:51):
you had four pounds of meat and four pounds of fat.
And I'm like, what in the worldare you feeding this thing?
And come to find out when Iasked her that, but she listens
to me and so she was feeding theKBA off lock, but she didn't
tell me was, she was sitting outthere in the laundry giving'em
mealworms and black soldierflies and salad and yogurt and
Carey (33:15):
Oh wow.
Jennifer (33:18):
So you're like feeding your chickens to death.
Carey (33:23):
So she, yeah, if you see I'm gonna say a dime sized
golden piece of fat, you'regood.
If you're talking silverdollars, large quarters, even,
unless they're like really thin,like hunks.
(33:45):
That bird's overweight.
Jennifer (33:47):
Yep.
So just, keep your in mind.
And an older bird's gonna havemore fat than a younger bird.
A sedentary bird, it was likekept in a small cage, might have
more.
So just keep that in mind.
Like these are just things tolook for.
And then step back and look atthe big picture that you have
going on in your farm.
The next thing you're gonna lookat is the liver.
(34:09):
That should be like a, it's likea maroonish red color.
It's not supposed to have greenspots or yellow spots or white
spots, or be like a palewhiteish color.
It should be a nice, clean.
What you think of when you thinkof beef liver, that maroon
(34:31):
color.
So yeah.
The gallbladder is gonna be likethis little tiny thing, maybe
the size of your pinky nailbehind the liver.
And if you break it, it willleak this lime green fluorescent
goo on everything completelynormal.
(34:52):
Don't let that freak you out.
The heart should be pink andfirm.
Jeff told me the other day whenI was talking to him that mushy
is a sign of heat stress if youhave a mushy heart.
Carey (35:05):
We are in the south.
Jennifer (35:06):
Yeah, that's true.
The lungs should be nice andpink.
Kinda uni.
We're looking for uniformity andcolor.
Anything that's not uniform is asign of an issue.
The colon, the intestines, youcan actually just slice those
open.
They're just, they're hollow.
They're like a host.
A water hose, just slice'em openand look in'em.
(35:28):
And you're looking for worms?
Blood.
Yeah.
You can along,
Carey (35:37):
but me, they're semi like, not, they're not
transparent, but I guess you'dcall it opaque.
And if you see something in amoving.
Or if you see more red than theguts, you know there's a
(35:59):
problem.
I don't need to cut it open andlook and see exactly what it is.
Jennifer (36:04):
See, I'm all up in there.
I'm like, what is that?
Lemme look.
Just don't see
Carey (36:09):
Okay.
In high school I was almost 19when I graduated'cause my
birthday's late, blah, blah,blah.
So my senior year in highschool, I worked in the meat
market and grocery store.
So going through all that, hey,no problem.
I would cut up steaks like thewhole chunk on the saw, standing
(36:29):
in that red stuff.
No problem.
Checking out the inside of theintestines.
No boy, not happy.
Like you into a chitlin supper,you're saying?
No.
And even as an adult I haveenough kids to have a football
team that I've been responsiblefor, but like that kind of
(36:54):
diaper I can't do I will lose mymost recent meal if it was
yesterday even.
It gets me that bad.
Everything else, I'm good.
Pinky hanging off bleeding.
Bone popped out.
Whatever.
I'm good.
That, Nope.
Jennifer (37:11):
See, I'm good.
Vomit.
I'm out.
Out.
Carey (37:15):
Oh yeah that's the, no, can't do that.
Jennifer (37:17):
All right.
So the most common questionabout this kind of stuff that I
get in my messages is what kindof, tools do I use and I'm
pretty crude.
We have an old piece of granitethat I lay either on a fish
cleaning table or on thetailgate of the gator.
(37:38):
We use the Cutco scissors.
I have a sharp knife.
I do have a Cutco knife, butactually you brought a set up
and I bought a set just like it,it's like a$30 set off of Amazon
and that knife.
Will like slice tea look
Carey (37:52):
That meat cleaver is probably an eighth of an inch
thick.
Yeah.
And it is.
It's serious.
Jennifer (37:59):
Yeah.
And 30 bucks.
Carey (38:01):
Yeah.
Jennifer (38:02):
And so we have a couple knives, just whatever
floats your boat.
David insists that I wear cutproof gloves.
I think they have glass fibersor something in them.
You can bleach'em in the washingmachine afterwards or run'em
through dishwasher.
But you can take the knife andthat, that knife and go across
(38:23):
your fingers and it will not cutyou.
But because I'm accident prone,he insists if I'm going to
butcher chickens to do that.
As far as the actual dispatchingis concerned we have a couple of
methods.
We have the old school hatchetmethod.
The broomstick method is my newfavorite because I can do it by
(38:45):
myself.
And I don't need him to comehelp me.
Because again, the whole hatchetcutting the arm off thing, he's
not a fan.
And then the the cutting of thejugular.
I tried that with a Turkeyactually Saturday and it worked
really nice.
Carey (39:01):
Really?
Jennifer (39:02):
Yes.
Again, it was like
Carey (39:04):
turkeys or they're two people.
Jennifer (39:07):
Yeah, but I could have done, Taylor was with me, but I
could have done it by myself, Ithink.
Carey (39:13):
I gotta see this.
Jennifer (39:14):
Yeah, because
Carey (39:15):
that's, that'll be something.
Jennifer (39:17):
So you don't really need a whole lot of stuff.
We did have a scalar going.
I did have my, I have a pluck.
So we had the pluck her out.
Scalar needs to be at 155degrees.
It's very important it be at155.
'cause you don't wanna cook thebird and you don't want it too
cool.
You need to switch them withtheir feet to get that water and
(39:38):
everything wet.
And put'em in the pluck.
We've tried it with the hose andwithout the hose.
Taylor, my son was doing it andhe likes to do it without the
hose, so we did it without thehose.
Carey (39:51):
Less of a mess.
Jennifer (39:52):
Yeah.
We just laid old feedbackunderneath the pluck.
When we were done, we justrolled the feathers right up
into the feedback.
So there wasn't even a mess whenwe were done.
So we did 10 chickens and oneTurkey in, I don't know, about
an hour and a half.
Carey (40:11):
That's pretty good.
Yeah.
So long story short, when you'relooking at this stuff, if you go
to poultry nerds podcast.com,there's some reference papers
that we've gotten from Dr.
Morida that has pictures.
Talks about different diseasesand what you may find.
(40:32):
So if you wanna go there to helpidentify, no problem.
It's not uncommon for either oneof us to get pictures of that or
poop.
Our Facebook messenger.
Good morning.
Hey.
Yeah, good morning.
My chicken's poop looks likethis.
What's wrong with it?
We're, use us as a resource.
(40:54):
That's why we're here.
We have fun.
Yes.
But we like to teach people andlike to be a resource so
Jennifer (41:02):
we don't give us a
Carey (41:02):
shout.
Jennifer (41:03):
The answer.
Carey (41:04):
If you want to, you can email info@poultrynerds.com.
Poultry nerds podcast.com.
That comes to us.
So yeah, we'll help you out.
Jennifer (41:16):
All right.
Till next time,
Carey (41:17):
have a good one.
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