November 20, 2025 • 34 mins
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Welcome back, Poultry Nerds!
In this jam-packed episode, Carey and Jennifer dive deep into chicken coop design, comparing fixed coops vs. chicken tractors, winter preparation, predator management, bird density, and how chicken math ALWAYS wins.
Whether you’re designing your first backyard coop or upgrading your serious breeding setup, this episode arms you with practical, real-world advice on:
- Choosing between tractors and stationary coops
- Winterizing your birds’ housing
- Keeping flocks stress-free for better egg production & chick vigor
- Managing rats, predators, wind, and weather
- Why you ALWAYS end up needing more than one pen
- Coop planning mistakes we’ve learned the hard way
- How livestock, goats, pigs & other animals affect your setup
- Spacing, bird density, ground maintenance & disease prevention
- Why tractors make your grass GREENER (yes, really!)
If you want healthier birds, better production, and a coop setup that grows WITH your flock, this is a must-listen.
Join Carey of Show Pro Farm Supply and Jennifer of Bryant's Roost as we delve into chickens and quail (mostly) to help you enjoy your birds more and worry less. Backyard chicken keeping shouldnt be stressfull, let's get back to the simple days
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carey (00:39):
Welcome poultry nerds.
On today's episode, we are gonnatalk about chicken coop design,
because I have been gettingasked a lot of questions and so
has Jennifer, and if you'relistening to this when it airs,
originally I'll be in Novemberwhen it's starting to get colder
(01:00):
or is cold.
Depending on what day it is,because last week it was in the
thirties.
Today it's pushing 80, so youknow, you never know, but we're
gonna talk about that and somedifferent ways to give your
chickens the stress-free life towhere they can give you the most
(01:23):
egg production, the mostvigorous chicks, all the good
stuff.
Jennifer (01:29):
So would you believe that in less than four months,
it'll be chick days at the boxstores again already?
Carey (01:37):
So I see that promos coming up.
But not long ago, I was in theold tractor place and I heard
chicks.
Jennifer (01:49):
Really?
Carey (01:50):
And I'm like it's.
This was two weeks ago, so I waslike, it's supposed to be 30
next week.
I got chicks.
But I saw on Facebook a post, avideo from a pretty well known
hatchery that they were likeboxing up their chicks for their
last shipping day.
(02:11):
And I think that was last weektoo yeah.
But this year it's.
It's been a record deal forchicks'cause everybody wants
chicks.
Jennifer (02:25):
This year has been extremely odd.
We have sold more than ever,shipped more than ever, and it
really never quite slowed downto the last couple weeks really.
But.
This generally, we'll just take20, 25 out of the equation right
now.
Generally, right now we'reprepping for holidays.
(02:49):
We're prepping for breeders.
We're dreaming of the coops thatwe wanna build for the spring
chicks we're gonna buy.
I see breeders are puttingtogether their wait lists and
their pre-orders and thehatcheries are doing the same
thing.
Yeah.
I thought let's you know foreverybody that's redesigning or
(03:10):
designing their coops, maybe wecould offer our 2 cents on some
things we have learned over theyears and things we would change
if we were to do'em over.
So my first thing was to comparecontrast.
(03:31):
Fixed structures like coops withruns to chicken tractors and we
both have both.
Carey (03:39):
Yeah, and I gotta say I'm a huge fan of both.
They both have their place.
I really like chicken tractorsbecause you can cram a lot of
birds in there.
You can move'em to a fresh saladevery day or two so you don't
wind up with a smelly mess whenit rains.
(04:00):
There's a lot of pluses to it.
Moving them every day can alsobe one of the negatives'cause
that's a lot of work.
Jennifer (04:11):
I have some pretty elaborate coops I would say.
'cause David likes to build mereally nice stuff and yeah.
Mine are approaching six yearsold at this point.
If I.
Could go back with the knowledgethat I have right now.
I would not have them.
(04:31):
I would do all tractors, believeit or not.
I would, first of all of courseI have AUMA coops because you
taught me into'em and I lovethem now and they're pricey.
But even at that price point,they are significantly cheaper
(04:52):
than what I was built.
Carey (04:56):
Yeah.
I had somebody ask me about'emthe other day after another
show, and I was like, look.
If you're looking for a cheapway out, then you need to keep
looking.
But if you want a one and done,I don't have to worry about this
thing for eight or 10 plusyears, then Illumina Co may be
the thing for you because, Ihave built some pens lately and
(05:21):
by the time you factor in wire,post, post holes.
Wire aerial netting.
Oh, a place for them to hidefrom the weather.
What you're gonna do with theground to keep it in shape, to
(05:41):
make sure you don't oversaturateit with too many cute chicks.
All that stuff.
You're monetarily, you're rightabout the same.
But then if you like to thinkthat your labor is worth
something, then you're gonnaspend more money building
(06:05):
something than you would get anA loom coop hour and a half,
probably for your first one.
Put it together and roll itaround.
Jennifer (06:19):
There's other things that I didn't even think of when
I was making our outline as faras the fixed coops.
Now I really like my fixedcoops, but you do have to have
some ground management as far asthe runs are concerned in order
to keep grass in'em.
Yeah.
But we get droughts and thenthere's nothing you can do at
that point.
It just turns to dirt.
(06:39):
But when you have a fixed coopand a fixed run, then you have
to mow around it.
You have to weed eat around it.
You have to reed inside of it.
You have to.
Maintain the netting and thewire and make sure predators
can't get into it.
And you have to deal with rattunnels because it's all fixed,
it's all stationary.
(07:01):
And the critters know that too.
So
Carey (07:04):
everybody likes chicken.
Jennifer (07:06):
Yeah.
And so while I really do like myfixed coops, there, there is
maintenance that goes along withit that you wouldn't have with
the tractors.
Now we both have Olima cos butthere are other tractors out
there.
I think Joel Saladin has a niceone that has a blueprint that
(07:27):
you can get offline orsomething.
If you live in a very windyarea, you need to keep that in
mind.
And you need to build it to yourweather basically.
Carey (07:36):
Yeah.
Jennifer (07:37):
But if you're mowing the field and you move the
tractor, then you don't haveanything to weed about weed, eat
around, you can just move it andkeep on mowing.
So there's less maintenance justthere.
And because you're moving it alot, the rats don't ever get a
chance to make a comment, figureout where
Carey (08:00):
it is.
Yeah, exactly.
Jennifer (08:02):
And then once you move it, of course, I've got 50
million ducks running around outthere.
So once you move it, the ducksclean up any feed that might've
been s spilled.
And if a, if an egg gets crushedor something, the dog cleans
that up.
Carey (08:17):
Oh yeah, that'll clean that out quick.
Jennifer (08:19):
Yeah.
So there's nothing left.
You just have basically.
Green stripes in the field.
Ultimately I have a field setaside that I have planted a
bunch of apple trees in, and nowgranted they're only like four
feet tall right now.
But my plan is to run thetractors between the rows of
(08:40):
fruit treat.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I'm
Carey (08:43):
excited.
I started tracking across myfront yard a couple years ago
because my, I couldn't doanything to get my grass to look
decent.
And I had these tractors I waswanting to demo and try out, so
I was like, Hey, you know what?
Bump it.
Let's do it.
Put a couple of chickens inhere.
Bam.
I did that for the two years ina row, and this year, now that
(09:07):
it's starting to get cold andsome of the grass is starting to
die, my wife was like, Hey.
Can you figure out a way to markthat and next year make sure you
hit that spot?
Because I still have green grassin January.
Jennifer (09:23):
Wow.
Carey (09:24):
Yeah, it's pretty nice.
Jennifer (09:26):
So your lot is a lot smaller than my, because I have
a farm and cows and everythingelse.
So you live more in town, so isthe tractor moving an issue for
you on the smaller space?
Carey (09:40):
No.
Jennifer (09:41):
No,
Carey (09:41):
it's just like anything else.
You don't overpopulate it andyou keep it going.
The ones that I have in my frontyard, they're five by six,
which, you say five by six,that's tiny, you can comfortably
I've had 10 full grown chickensin there and not had any issues
because I moved them every otherday, no buildup of poo or
(10:05):
nothing like that.
Which 10 is a lot for that area.
But I wanted to see the limitsand I wanted to see what the
recommendations was and how itactually applied to real life.
Because lots of manufacturerslike to say, oh, you can put 50
million chickens in this andmove them every 10 minutes.
(10:29):
Or less.
So I wanted to try the numbersand see how it really was.
And it actually wasn't bad.
Now, I did not have broilers,which are just poop machines.
I had actual, like laying alaying flock that had a rooster
in there, it worked out great.
Never had problems with rattunnels, nothing like that.
(10:50):
And I have clocked 73 mile anhour wind on my property with no
issues with the tractors.
So there's always that too.
Pretty solid.
Jennifer (11:04):
Yep.
The back to the keeping thegreenery, one thing I have
noticed in my fixed runs is, ofcourse the chickens eat the
grass and the Yeah.
Carey (11:16):
The good
Jennifer (11:16):
stuff.
The clover and stuff, and theyleave the weeds.
And I have ended up with bigsections of the run being
overtaken with this red.
Thorny thing.
I don't even know what it'scalled, but I know it is the
fire outta, so
Carey (11:30):
this is what you need to do for that.
Jennifer (11:32):
What
Carey (11:32):
You have said you got too many goats, right?
Jennifer (11:36):
They won't even eat this thing.
Goat got thorns on it.
Carey (11:41):
Hey, mine will eat anything.
Oh, Like I've seen mine eat.
I saw mine eating a dead stumpand I'm like, homie, you have
primo non GMO grain feed.
In your trough, why are youeating a dead piece of wood?
And my wife goes, it's probablygot some bugs in it.
Jennifer (12:04):
And
Carey (12:04):
I just looked at her 'cause that was something I
would say.
'cause like when, they'remessing around in the yard and
stuff, but they're not eatingthe grass, eh, probably bugs,
you probably didn't notice.
Jennifer (12:17):
Last time you were here because we were busy like
recording and stuff.
But my goat population hasdwindled significantly.
I think it was like,
Carey (12:26):
I noticed there wasn't as many there, but you Hey, I'm
even
Jennifer (12:30):
damn more.
I have four.
I know, right?
I'm so excited.
So my son and his wife and kidslive across the street and they,
they bought this property thatis somebody planted bamboo,
which is a whole nother story,but I think they actually sold
the property'cause they didn'tknow what to do with all the
(12:51):
bamboo.
It's just like taking overeverything.
And I was like, huh, you reallyneed goats.
So we banded all the boys fromthe spring and took'em over
there and he's oh man, thisrocks.
'cause he doesn't like to mowgrass.
And so he is this rocks, andthen.
Of course I have a problem with,here's another thing you should
(13:12):
think about too.
If you have goats and you havechickens, of course I have giant
chickens, right?
And I have dwarf goats, sothey're about the same size.
So I can't, not a lot ofdifference.
I can't make the door to my maincoop.
Any smaller otherwise five won'tbe able to crouch to get my big
(13:34):
rooster in the back, his name isfive.
He won't be able to crouch toget into the coop anymore'cause
he already has to wiggle inthere because I can't make it
any smaller and I can't keep thedarn goats out.
So I gave up, just opened thebig door.
And the goats keep going inthere and then they get all
excited and they step on mychickens and they end up
(13:55):
breaking toes and breaking legsand different things.
And so I just got mad and sentall the baby goats across the
street.
So now I just have the fournanny goats here and they don't
bother my chickens.
Carey (14:08):
Over there you could take a tractor or something and
outline the property.
Put up some hot wire, turn themsuckers loose.
They'll have it under control inno time.
Jennifer (14:20):
Oh yeah.
So he's, I think they have, Ihad 13 and I have four left, so
they've got nine over there now,and the kids are just loving
them.
They buy animal crackers andthey go outside and feed'em
animal crackers.
Carey (14:34):
That works out great.
I need to find a co.
I need to find a couple females.
A couple of those.
Jennifer (14:41):
I can't do that.
You had all males in the spring,so that's not, works not easy.
That would be actually anotherthing to consider if you have
other livestock that, how thoseare gonna interact with your
coop.
So for example, last year hadthe bright idea to wean my
(15:02):
piglets.
And put them in my runs and letthem root up all the rat tunnels
and stuff, and it workedfantastic.
The problem is piglets grow, Idon't know, 50% a day it seems
like.
So by the time they went throughall 12 of my runs, which was an
experience moving them from runto run, they had torn up quite a
(15:25):
bit of fence.
So we will not be doing thatagain.
Of course I got rid of
Carey (15:31):
pigs.
I discovered something the otherday.
Apparently one of my other pigswas pregnant.
Jennifer (15:37):
Oh no.
So how many do you have now?
Carey (15:41):
Like four littles.
They're like the size of thiswater bottle.
Jennifer (15:45):
Oh my goodness.
Carey (15:46):
And they're already eating feed.
Jennifer (15:51):
I told you if you sprinkle them with water, you
get more pigs
Carey (15:55):
apparently.
Jennifer (15:57):
I told you so
Carey (15:59):
I got a IBC tote, put it upside down, put a feeder in it
just for the little pigs becausepigs are pigs.
And I had to put a coupleconcrete blocks on top of it.
Because the others were tryingto move it and actually anchor
it to the ground.
But now my, now the little one'srunning there to get away from
(16:21):
the big ones and to eat, and itworks out great.
But again, that's all thingslike if you have those or goats
or whatever, that's all youstuff you should think about
when you think about yourchickens and how you're gonna
set up, if you're gonna do runsor if you're gonna do tractors
or you know what, you need tothink about your goals and what
(16:46):
you have and you need to makesure everything works together.
And
Jennifer (16:51):
And an as animal math takes over, as we talk about
goats and pigs and stuff,tractors are movable and if you
build structure, you're kindabuilt, in there.
So just a side note,'cause wedon't ever do side notes, didn't
you at one point have your Coneyin the Illumina coop?
Carey (17:10):
Yes.
Jennifer (17:11):
How'd that work?
Carey (17:13):
It actually worked great.
And on that subject, theyactually have a kit now that you
can get that's designed to weltpigs.
It has like little sections init, welting station, water, all
that stuff for the littlepiglets.
And I did get a thank you forthat idea.
(17:36):
Because I was like the third orfourth person that had tried
that.
So they started developing intoa little further to make it a
thing.
They're built solid.
I had pigs that weighed 15, 20pounds that ran pretty strong
that was running out of theirpen.
And I, one of them ran through adip net, broke a.
(18:00):
Like less than two week old dipnet.
And so I was like, bump this.
I'm gonna keep y'all safe.
You're going into Theum Co withthe chickens.
And it was hilarious watchingthem drink out of a place Bell
Water.
'cause once they figured outthere was water in it, they
would go push it and as it wouldtilt, the water would come out
(18:22):
and they'd just drink it.
Jennifer (18:25):
Interesting.
Carey (18:25):
Yeah.
I wouldn't try that with bigpigs though.
They'd chew on it.
Jennifer (18:31):
Okay, so let's talk about, now that we've done pros
and cons of the two let's talkabout why you really need more
than one.
Even though you think right nowthat you only need four laying
hands, that will never happen.
We're just here to tell you thatwill never happen.
(19:39):
You will end up with 22.
So you need more than one penfor various reasons.
First and foremost would,
Carey (19:49):
At this point, you're 20 minutes into this podcast and
we're enablers.
Jennifer (19:54):
Yes.
Carey (19:55):
Yeah we will admit it.
And when you say, I'm gettingfour, like she said, 20, 30,
maybe.
Heck, years ago I convinced mywife.
To let me get a couple ofchickens so we could save money
on eggs.
And she's just ignored it eversince
Jennifer (20:15):
we started with 10.
Yeah.
Okay, so there's a couplereasons why you need more than
one pen.
The biggest one that, my biggestreason for more than one pen is
going to be flock security.
So if you have your flockdivided between two pens that
(20:40):
are, say more than 10 feetapart.
Preferably if one gets sick, theother one won't get sick.
Hopefully, if one gets eaten bypredators, the other one won't
because the predator will befull before it needs to go into
the second one.
If you forgot and left the dooropen and they all escaped and
(21:03):
flew away to the neighbor'syard, you still have the other
one.
Because remember, not only areyou investing in the coop.
In the structure, you'reinvesting in genetics in birds
in your time, and you sure asheck don't wanna be starting
over from chicks every timesomething goes wrong because I'm
(21:26):
here to tell you something willgo wrong.
Oh
Carey (21:29):
yeah.
Jennifer (21:30):
So
Carey (21:31):
It's not, when something happens, it's not if a predator
will get one of your chickensit's when.
Because I have a not very largeyard and two very large dogs,
and I still have stuff trying.
I had about two weeks ago acoyote.
(21:51):
We've never had coyotes.
Get this close and buddy, theblack and white brindle looking
color anole.
Scaled a 50 inch tall fence, notmaking any noise but him
running.
(22:12):
And then I saw him in the fieldbeside me, square off.
And then I saw this huge whitemass coming up on the other
side, like it was flanking.
That was Lucy.
And I just walked away.
And both my dogs came back home.
(22:36):
The coyote, it did not work outreal well for that one, and I
had no clue.
Like I, it's a 50 inch tallfence, but I don't know if it
was Billy and Bobby that theywere protecting, or if it was
the chickens or the turkeys orme.
(22:58):
Because I was outside when thisthing was approaching, but they
did their job.
They earned their kibble, that'sfor sure.
But even at having thosemeasures in place, something's
still gonna try to get in,whether it's a coyote, raccoon,
possum, whatever it is, becauseeverybody and everything loves
(23:23):
chicken.
Jennifer (23:24):
Rats.
Mice, they'll chew on theirtoes.
Yeah.
It's, they'll chew on theirpales.
It's everything.
Yeah.
And they are coming.
Don't listen to all the peoplewho are like, oh, pick up your
food at night and you won't haveany trouble.
That is not true.
Mice are gonna, yeah.
You just
Carey (23:40):
having trouble that you see.
Jennifer (23:43):
Yes.
Carey (23:43):
You see all the rat poop around the feeder because
they're cleaning it out.
They're there.
Jennifer (23:48):
Yes.
It is what it is.
You have feed, you're gonna havemice.
But back to why you want morethan two pens.
So you're gonna end up so inFebruary you're gonna buy your
first chicks and then they'regonna grow up and start laying
around June or July.
And then chicken math will takeover and you're gonna buy some
more chicks.
(24:08):
And then you're gonna take inyour friend's birds because she,
has to move and has to get ridof her birds.
So you're gonna take those inand they bought too
Carey (24:16):
many.
Jennifer (24:16):
Yeah.
And then you're gonna have tofigure out how to merge those
two coops, flocks.
And then you got different agesand they got two flocks, and now
you're trying to put'emtogether.
And you've got to introduce'emto each other and quarantine'em.
So there's your two coops rightthere.
And then you're gonna need dogkennels in order in case you got
a broody hen with some chicks.
(24:37):
You gotta keep her separate orsomebody's toe got squished and
so you gotta put her in hospitaland watch her toe and see what's
gonna happen.
Or.
They got into a fight and theircomb is bloody.
I'm just letting you know rightnow that combs get bloody.
It's not a big deal.
Just no, there
Carey (24:56):
It don't matter what breed you have.
A lot of people say, oh,certain, only certain chickens
fight.
Jennifer (25:00):
No,
Carey (25:00):
You put, you could have 20 male chickens in a pen and
everything's fine.
You let them hear.
A hen make a noise, boom, wegotta have a pecking order.
And they will establish thatcrap real fast.
(25:22):
Now, once it's done.
But the one that got picked onso much it, if you don't move,
it is not gonna work out realgood.
Jennifer (25:33):
Combs bleed profusely, but it's not, it looks worse
than it is.
Yeah.
And then also the next thingyou're gonna do is you're gonna
forget there's differencebetween large file and bantams,
and you're gonna end up withgiant orpingtons and some
silkies, and those aren't gonnago together real well.
So you're gonna need two pens,one for each of those.
Carey (25:55):
One for the orpingtons to lay the nice big pretty eggs and
one for the silkies to hatch'em.
Jennifer (26:01):
Yeah, exactly.
So regardless if you think we'reserious or not, plan space for
two pens.
Try to do'em 10 feet apart.
And if you think we're crazy,then just say, okay, I'm gonna
do it anyway.
And that way I can just rotate.
(26:22):
The pasture so they can eat allthe grass in one while you
reseed and straw the other one,and then move them to the other
one.
And that way they always havefresh grass to eat while they're
in their run.
Carey (26:33):
Oh, you do that and you'll have an amazing flock.
That'll be healthy living, goodpumping out eggs 24 7 365.
Like all the things you wantbecause you're giving them fresh
pasture all the time.
Jennifer (26:49):
Yep.
And then all y'all that aretelling us that we're crazy
right now, that you would neverdo that.
I want you to email us next falland let us know how many chicks
you got.
And how much you wanna talkabout chickens.
Carey (27:03):
Right now I only got about 15 chicks.
Jennifer (27:07):
We are not gonna talk about what I've got.
Okay, so I guess the lastcommentary would be on bird
density.
Just don't overpopulate yourpens.
It causes a lot of problems.
It causes a lot of sickness.
It causes pecking orderproblems, it causes fighting and
it, the ammonia builds up.
(27:30):
It's just a hot mess.
So if you truly only want fourbirds by, or build a coop for
eight, so they have plenty ofspace, don't buy the minimum.
And then go from there, becauseyou don't wanna cram 10 chickens
(27:51):
into a four by four prebuilt inbox
Carey (27:55):
coop.
I'm gonna tell you right now youfigure out how many chickens you
want and then you need to figure15 feet square feet per chicken
minimum.
For a couple reasons.
Number one, everybody recommends10, and by the time chicken math
(28:19):
happens, you might get there,but like she said, you, you
build it adequate for double atleast one and a half times what
you're thinking, double ifpossible, that way when it
happens, you're ready.
(28:39):
You know that's what I did.
I recently put in a couple ofstationary pens that I'm using.
One's gonna be for a ratherlarge, I have two large breeding
programs for birds and they'llbe in those,'cause they've got
(28:59):
the aerial nets and all thatkind of stuff.
But I've also, I'm at about onebird every 18, 19 feet and I got
a bunch of random stupid stuffthat I put in'em.
I've got an old above groundpool ladder.
I've got some saw horses thatare different heights that I've
(29:21):
made.
Put some stuff in there thatthey can get on, even if it's
just playing King of theMountain.
I have in one of my pens, thebottom of a 55 gallon drum, like
it's 10 inches deep or somethinglike that.
And you would think, that'sheavy.
They're not gonna knock it overthe bull crap.
(29:43):
I have seen them up on top ofit.
I've seen them in it and I'veseen it on its side.
But if you get crap like thatfor them to play with, they're
not gonna be as abusive to eachother.
Jennifer (29:59):
Dirt baths too.
Make sure they have loose dirtto play in all the time.
Carey (30:04):
I go through mine with a rotor tiller and lime pretty
regular.
Yeah.
Jennifer (30:08):
Oh, and that's the other thing we didn't hit on.
If you have a fixed coop, you'vegot to reed it and clean it all
the time.
If you have a tractor, you justmove it and mow it.
Carey (30:18):
Yeah.
And I, on that note, I suggestyou to do it right the first
time.
Because if you bed that suckerright the first time, you're
gonna spend a little bit moremoney.
But the maintenance that youhave to do through it over the
years is gonna be little insteadof a lot, because I have some
(30:38):
that I spent the money and I putpeat moss and I put sand and I
put stall pellets and all kindsof crap in there, probably 10
inches thick.
And I ain't done crap to themsince.
Except throw some lime on it.
Really thick, hit it with arotor tiller and move to the
(30:59):
next, and that's just because Idon't want any kind of disease
in my dirt.
And you
Jennifer (31:07):
through a lot of lime here, we're actually tilling all
of them tomorrow.
Carey (31:10):
Where there's poop, there's gonna be disease.
Which is why I don't likefeeding on the ground.
That's another podcast.
Jennifer (31:17):
Okay, so because we're gonna get lots of messages.
I know.
Illumina cos yes, we talk aboutIllumina cos'cause we both have
them.
Carrie is actually a dealer.
You can contact him if you wantone.
You can build them with.
Cattle wire and tarps andcheaper.
What I will say on all of thatstuff is make sure that you are
(31:39):
physically able to move them.
So consider that before youbuild them out of heavy wood.
That, that you can physicallymove them if you decide to go
with the tractor.
So that is a consideration to gowith those.
'cause I have had tractorsbefore that David built me that
I couldn't move if my lifedepended on it.
(31:59):
It was so heavy.
So make sure that you can dothat.
And then if you decide to do thestationary, just try to plan it
accordingly, that as you growthat
Carey (32:11):
it
Jennifer (32:11):
still works for you.
Carey (32:13):
So if you do the stationary, make sure that you
do it.
Put a little extra time intoplanning it and make sure that
you do it right the first time.
Otherwise, you'll be mad atyourself for redoing so much in
the pen to begin with.
Make sure.
Another thing that's probablybig is don't overcrowd it.
(32:35):
Overcrowding your chicken pensprobably leads to more disease
problems and maintenanceproblems than anything else.
Jennifer (32:46):
And there's no way to keep the rats out.
There's no amount of bearing it.
Mine is in concrete.
There is no amount of bearingit.
They will come in and justborrow inside of it.
They are the smartest.
Critters I think that I haveever battled.
And it's a battle.
(33:07):
They live in the gravel bedunderneath of my concrete slab
of my barn, and there's nothingyou can do about it.
The barn's 30 by 50.
What are you gonna do about it?
So they're there.
You just control them as bestyou can.
Carey (33:22):
Yep.
Jennifer (33:23):
So anyway, we'll leave that for another day or you can
text us.
Carey (33:28):
Yep.
Jennifer (33:29):
But make sure
Carey (33:30):
you like and follow us.
Check us out on our socialmedias.
You can send us messages there.
Carry it at and Jennifer atpoultry and nerd podcast.com.
You can email us directly if youdon't care which one of us
answers your questions.
Send it toinfo@poultrynerdspodcast.com and
(33:50):
the first one to see it.
We'll get back to you as soon aspossible.
Until then, we'll see you nexttime.
Jennifer (33:57):
All right.
Bye.
Welcome poultry nerds.
On today's episode, we are gonnatalk about chicken coop design,
because I have been gettingasked a lot of questions and so
has Jennifer, and if you'relistening to this when it airs,
originally I'll be in Novemberwhen it's starting to get colder
(01:00):
or is cold.
Depending on what day it is,because last week it was in the
thirties.
Today it's pushing 80, so youknow, you never know, but we're
gonna talk about that and somedifferent ways to give your
chickens the stress-free life towhere they can give you the most
(01:23):
egg production, the mostvigorous chicks, all the good
stuff.
Jennifer (01:29):
So would you believe that in less than four months,
it'll be chick days at the boxstores again already?
Carey (01:37):
So I see that promos coming up.
But not long ago, I was in theold tractor place and I heard
chicks.
Jennifer (01:49):
Really?
Carey (01:50):
And I'm like it's.
This was two weeks ago, so I waslike, it's supposed to be 30
next week.
I got chicks.
But I saw on Facebook a post, avideo from a pretty well known
hatchery that they were likeboxing up their chicks for their
last shipping day.
(02:11):
And I think that was last weektoo yeah.
But this year it's.
It's been a record deal forchicks'cause everybody wants
chicks.
Jennifer (02:25):
This year has been extremely odd.
We have sold more than ever,shipped more than ever, and it
really never quite slowed downto the last couple weeks really.
But.
This generally, we'll just take20, 25 out of the equation right
now.
Generally, right now we'reprepping for holidays.
(02:49):
We're prepping for breeders.
We're dreaming of the coops thatwe wanna build for the spring
chicks we're gonna buy.
I see breeders are puttingtogether their wait lists and
their pre-orders and thehatcheries are doing the same
thing.
Yeah.
I thought let's you know foreverybody that's redesigning or
(03:10):
designing their coops, maybe wecould offer our 2 cents on some
things we have learned over theyears and things we would change
if we were to do'em over.
So my first thing was to comparecontrast.
(03:31):
Fixed structures like coops withruns to chicken tractors and we
both have both.
Carey (03:39):
Yeah, and I gotta say I'm a huge fan of both.
They both have their place.
I really like chicken tractorsbecause you can cram a lot of
birds in there.
You can move'em to a fresh saladevery day or two so you don't
wind up with a smelly mess whenit rains.
(04:00):
There's a lot of pluses to it.
Moving them every day can alsobe one of the negatives'cause
that's a lot of work.
Jennifer (04:11):
I have some pretty elaborate coops I would say.
'cause David likes to build mereally nice stuff and yeah.
Mine are approaching six yearsold at this point.
If I.
Could go back with the knowledgethat I have right now.
I would not have them.
(04:31):
I would do all tractors, believeit or not.
I would, first of all of courseI have AUMA coops because you
taught me into'em and I lovethem now and they're pricey.
But even at that price point,they are significantly cheaper
(04:52):
than what I was built.
Carey (04:56):
Yeah.
I had somebody ask me about'emthe other day after another
show, and I was like, look.
If you're looking for a cheapway out, then you need to keep
looking.
But if you want a one and done,I don't have to worry about this
thing for eight or 10 plusyears, then Illumina Co may be
the thing for you because, Ihave built some pens lately and
(05:21):
by the time you factor in wire,post, post holes.
Wire aerial netting.
Oh, a place for them to hidefrom the weather.
What you're gonna do with theground to keep it in shape, to
(05:41):
make sure you don't oversaturateit with too many cute chicks.
All that stuff.
You're monetarily, you're rightabout the same.
But then if you like to thinkthat your labor is worth
something, then you're gonnaspend more money building
(06:05):
something than you would get anA loom coop hour and a half,
probably for your first one.
Put it together and roll itaround.
Jennifer (06:19):
There's other things that I didn't even think of when
I was making our outline as faras the fixed coops.
Now I really like my fixedcoops, but you do have to have
some ground management as far asthe runs are concerned in order
to keep grass in'em.
Yeah.
But we get droughts and thenthere's nothing you can do at
that point.
It just turns to dirt.
(06:39):
But when you have a fixed coopand a fixed run, then you have
to mow around it.
You have to weed eat around it.
You have to reed inside of it.
You have to.
Maintain the netting and thewire and make sure predators
can't get into it.
And you have to deal with rattunnels because it's all fixed,
it's all stationary.
(07:01):
And the critters know that too.
So
Carey (07:04):
everybody likes chicken.
Jennifer (07:06):
Yeah.
And so while I really do like myfixed coops, there, there is
maintenance that goes along withit that you wouldn't have with
the tractors.
Now we both have Olima cos butthere are other tractors out
there.
I think Joel Saladin has a niceone that has a blueprint that
(07:27):
you can get offline orsomething.
If you live in a very windyarea, you need to keep that in
mind.
And you need to build it to yourweather basically.
Carey (07:36):
Yeah.
Jennifer (07:37):
But if you're mowing the field and you move the
tractor, then you don't haveanything to weed about weed, eat
around, you can just move it andkeep on mowing.
So there's less maintenance justthere.
And because you're moving it alot, the rats don't ever get a
chance to make a comment, figureout where
Carey (08:00):
it is.
Yeah, exactly.
Jennifer (08:02):
And then once you move it, of course, I've got 50
million ducks running around outthere.
So once you move it, the ducksclean up any feed that might've
been s spilled.
And if a, if an egg gets crushedor something, the dog cleans
that up.
Carey (08:17):
Oh yeah, that'll clean that out quick.
Jennifer (08:19):
Yeah.
So there's nothing left.
You just have basically.
Green stripes in the field.
Ultimately I have a field setaside that I have planted a
bunch of apple trees in, and nowgranted they're only like four
feet tall right now.
But my plan is to run thetractors between the rows of
(08:40):
fruit treat.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I'm
Carey (08:43):
excited.
I started tracking across myfront yard a couple years ago
because my, I couldn't doanything to get my grass to look
decent.
And I had these tractors I waswanting to demo and try out, so
I was like, Hey, you know what?
Bump it.
Let's do it.
Put a couple of chickens inhere.
Bam.
I did that for the two years ina row, and this year, now that
(09:07):
it's starting to get cold andsome of the grass is starting to
die, my wife was like, Hey.
Can you figure out a way to markthat and next year make sure you
hit that spot?
Because I still have green grassin January.
Jennifer (09:23):
Wow.
Carey (09:24):
Yeah, it's pretty nice.
Jennifer (09:26):
So your lot is a lot smaller than my, because I have
a farm and cows and everythingelse.
So you live more in town, so isthe tractor moving an issue for
you on the smaller space?
Carey (09:40):
No.
Jennifer (09:41):
No,
Carey (09:41):
it's just like anything else.
You don't overpopulate it andyou keep it going.
The ones that I have in my frontyard, they're five by six,
which, you say five by six,that's tiny, you can comfortably
I've had 10 full grown chickensin there and not had any issues
because I moved them every otherday, no buildup of poo or
(10:05):
nothing like that.
Which 10 is a lot for that area.
But I wanted to see the limitsand I wanted to see what the
recommendations was and how itactually applied to real life.
Because lots of manufacturerslike to say, oh, you can put 50
million chickens in this andmove them every 10 minutes.
(10:29):
Or less.
So I wanted to try the numbersand see how it really was.
And it actually wasn't bad.
Now, I did not have broilers,which are just poop machines.
I had actual, like laying alaying flock that had a rooster
in there, it worked out great.
Never had problems with rattunnels, nothing like that.
(10:50):
And I have clocked 73 mile anhour wind on my property with no
issues with the tractors.
So there's always that too.
Pretty solid.
Jennifer (11:04):
Yep.
The back to the keeping thegreenery, one thing I have
noticed in my fixed runs is, ofcourse the chickens eat the
grass and the Yeah.
Carey (11:16):
The good
Jennifer (11:16):
stuff.
The clover and stuff, and theyleave the weeds.
And I have ended up with bigsections of the run being
overtaken with this red.
Thorny thing.
I don't even know what it'scalled, but I know it is the
fire outta, so
Carey (11:30):
this is what you need to do for that.
Jennifer (11:32):
What
Carey (11:32):
You have said you got too many goats, right?
Jennifer (11:36):
They won't even eat this thing.
Goat got thorns on it.
Carey (11:41):
Hey, mine will eat anything.
Oh, Like I've seen mine eat.
I saw mine eating a dead stumpand I'm like, homie, you have
primo non GMO grain feed.
In your trough, why are youeating a dead piece of wood?
And my wife goes, it's probablygot some bugs in it.
Jennifer (12:04):
And
Carey (12:04):
I just looked at her 'cause that was something I
would say.
'cause like when, they'remessing around in the yard and
stuff, but they're not eatingthe grass, eh, probably bugs,
you probably didn't notice.
Jennifer (12:17):
Last time you were here because we were busy like
recording and stuff.
But my goat population hasdwindled significantly.
I think it was like,
Carey (12:26):
I noticed there wasn't as many there, but you Hey, I'm
even
Jennifer (12:30):
damn more.
I have four.
I know, right?
I'm so excited.
So my son and his wife and kidslive across the street and they,
they bought this property thatis somebody planted bamboo,
which is a whole nother story,but I think they actually sold
the property'cause they didn'tknow what to do with all the
(12:51):
bamboo.
It's just like taking overeverything.
And I was like, huh, you reallyneed goats.
So we banded all the boys fromthe spring and took'em over
there and he's oh man, thisrocks.
'cause he doesn't like to mowgrass.
And so he is this rocks, andthen.
Of course I have a problem with,here's another thing you should
(13:12):
think about too.
If you have goats and you havechickens, of course I have giant
chickens, right?
And I have dwarf goats, sothey're about the same size.
So I can't, not a lot ofdifference.
I can't make the door to my maincoop.
Any smaller otherwise five won'tbe able to crouch to get my big
(13:34):
rooster in the back, his name isfive.
He won't be able to crouch toget into the coop anymore'cause
he already has to wiggle inthere because I can't make it
any smaller and I can't keep thedarn goats out.
So I gave up, just opened thebig door.
And the goats keep going inthere and then they get all
excited and they step on mychickens and they end up
(13:55):
breaking toes and breaking legsand different things.
And so I just got mad and sentall the baby goats across the
street.
So now I just have the fournanny goats here and they don't
bother my chickens.
Carey (14:08):
Over there you could take a tractor or something and
outline the property.
Put up some hot wire, turn themsuckers loose.
They'll have it under control inno time.
Jennifer (14:20):
Oh yeah.
So he's, I think they have, Ihad 13 and I have four left, so
they've got nine over there now,and the kids are just loving
them.
They buy animal crackers andthey go outside and feed'em
animal crackers.
Carey (14:34):
That works out great.
I need to find a co.
I need to find a couple females.
A couple of those.
Jennifer (14:41):
I can't do that.
You had all males in the spring,so that's not, works not easy.
That would be actually anotherthing to consider if you have
other livestock that, how thoseare gonna interact with your
coop.
So for example, last year hadthe bright idea to wean my
(15:02):
piglets.
And put them in my runs and letthem root up all the rat tunnels
and stuff, and it workedfantastic.
The problem is piglets grow, Idon't know, 50% a day it seems
like.
So by the time they went throughall 12 of my runs, which was an
experience moving them from runto run, they had torn up quite a
(15:25):
bit of fence.
So we will not be doing thatagain.
Of course I got rid of
Carey (15:31):
pigs.
I discovered something the otherday.
Apparently one of my other pigswas pregnant.
Jennifer (15:37):
Oh no.
So how many do you have now?
Carey (15:41):
Like four littles.
They're like the size of thiswater bottle.
Jennifer (15:45):
Oh my goodness.
Carey (15:46):
And they're already eating feed.
Jennifer (15:51):
I told you if you sprinkle them with water, you
get more pigs
Carey (15:55):
apparently.
Jennifer (15:57):
I told you so
Carey (15:59):
I got a IBC tote, put it upside down, put a feeder in it
just for the little pigs becausepigs are pigs.
And I had to put a coupleconcrete blocks on top of it.
Because the others were tryingto move it and actually anchor
it to the ground.
But now my, now the little one'srunning there to get away from
(16:21):
the big ones and to eat, and itworks out great.
But again, that's all thingslike if you have those or goats
or whatever, that's all youstuff you should think about
when you think about yourchickens and how you're gonna
set up, if you're gonna do runsor if you're gonna do tractors
or you know what, you need tothink about your goals and what
(16:46):
you have and you need to makesure everything works together.
And
Jennifer (16:51):
And an as animal math takes over, as we talk about
goats and pigs and stuff,tractors are movable and if you
build structure, you're kindabuilt, in there.
So just a side note,'cause wedon't ever do side notes, didn't
you at one point have your Coneyin the Illumina coop?
Carey (17:10):
Yes.
Jennifer (17:11):
How'd that work?
Carey (17:13):
It actually worked great.
And on that subject, theyactually have a kit now that you
can get that's designed to weltpigs.
It has like little sections init, welting station, water, all
that stuff for the littlepiglets.
And I did get a thank you forthat idea.
(17:36):
Because I was like the third orfourth person that had tried
that.
So they started developing intoa little further to make it a
thing.
They're built solid.
I had pigs that weighed 15, 20pounds that ran pretty strong
that was running out of theirpen.
And I, one of them ran through adip net, broke a.
(18:00):
Like less than two week old dipnet.
And so I was like, bump this.
I'm gonna keep y'all safe.
You're going into Theum Co withthe chickens.
And it was hilarious watchingthem drink out of a place Bell
Water.
'cause once they figured outthere was water in it, they
would go push it and as it wouldtilt, the water would come out
(18:22):
and they'd just drink it.
Jennifer (18:25):
Interesting.
Carey (18:25):
Yeah.
I wouldn't try that with bigpigs though.
They'd chew on it.
Jennifer (18:31):
Okay, so let's talk about, now that we've done pros
and cons of the two let's talkabout why you really need more
than one.
Even though you think right nowthat you only need four laying
hands, that will never happen.
We're just here to tell you thatwill never happen.
(19:39):
You will end up with 22.
So you need more than one penfor various reasons.
First and foremost would,
Carey (19:49):
At this point, you're 20 minutes into this podcast and
we're enablers.
Jennifer (19:54):
Yes.
Carey (19:55):
Yeah we will admit it.
And when you say, I'm gettingfour, like she said, 20, 30,
maybe.
Heck, years ago I convinced mywife.
To let me get a couple ofchickens so we could save money
on eggs.
And she's just ignored it eversince
Jennifer (20:15):
we started with 10.
Yeah.
Okay, so there's a couplereasons why you need more than
one pen.
The biggest one that, my biggestreason for more than one pen is
going to be flock security.
So if you have your flockdivided between two pens that
(20:40):
are, say more than 10 feetapart.
Preferably if one gets sick, theother one won't get sick.
Hopefully, if one gets eaten bypredators, the other one won't
because the predator will befull before it needs to go into
the second one.
If you forgot and left the dooropen and they all escaped and
(21:03):
flew away to the neighbor'syard, you still have the other
one.
Because remember, not only areyou investing in the coop.
In the structure, you'reinvesting in genetics in birds
in your time, and you sure asheck don't wanna be starting
over from chicks every timesomething goes wrong because I'm
(21:26):
here to tell you something willgo wrong.
Oh
Carey (21:29):
yeah.
Jennifer (21:30):
So
Carey (21:31):
It's not, when something happens, it's not if a predator
will get one of your chickensit's when.
Because I have a not very largeyard and two very large dogs,
and I still have stuff trying.
I had about two weeks ago acoyote.
(21:51):
We've never had coyotes.
Get this close and buddy, theblack and white brindle looking
color anole.
Scaled a 50 inch tall fence, notmaking any noise but him
running.
(22:12):
And then I saw him in the fieldbeside me, square off.
And then I saw this huge whitemass coming up on the other
side, like it was flanking.
That was Lucy.
And I just walked away.
And both my dogs came back home.
(22:36):
The coyote, it did not work outreal well for that one, and I
had no clue.
Like I, it's a 50 inch tallfence, but I don't know if it
was Billy and Bobby that theywere protecting, or if it was
the chickens or the turkeys orme.
(22:58):
Because I was outside when thisthing was approaching, but they
did their job.
They earned their kibble, that'sfor sure.
But even at having thosemeasures in place, something's
still gonna try to get in,whether it's a coyote, raccoon,
possum, whatever it is, becauseeverybody and everything loves
(23:23):
chicken.
Jennifer (23:24):
Rats.
Mice, they'll chew on theirtoes.
Yeah.
It's, they'll chew on theirpales.
It's everything.
Yeah.
And they are coming.
Don't listen to all the peoplewho are like, oh, pick up your
food at night and you won't haveany trouble.
That is not true.
Mice are gonna, yeah.
You just
Carey (23:40):
having trouble that you see.
Jennifer (23:43):
Yes.
Carey (23:43):
You see all the rat poop around the feeder because
they're cleaning it out.
They're there.
Jennifer (23:48):
Yes.
It is what it is.
You have feed, you're gonna havemice.
But back to why you want morethan two pens.
So you're gonna end up so inFebruary you're gonna buy your
first chicks and then they'regonna grow up and start laying
around June or July.
And then chicken math will takeover and you're gonna buy some
more chicks.
(24:08):
And then you're gonna take inyour friend's birds because she,
has to move and has to get ridof her birds.
So you're gonna take those inand they bought too
Carey (24:16):
many.
Jennifer (24:16):
Yeah.
And then you're gonna have tofigure out how to merge those
two coops, flocks.
And then you got different agesand they got two flocks, and now
you're trying to put'emtogether.
And you've got to introduce'emto each other and quarantine'em.
So there's your two coops rightthere.
And then you're gonna need dogkennels in order in case you got
a broody hen with some chicks.
(24:37):
You gotta keep her separate orsomebody's toe got squished and
so you gotta put her in hospitaland watch her toe and see what's
gonna happen.
Or.
They got into a fight and theircomb is bloody.
I'm just letting you know rightnow that combs get bloody.
It's not a big deal.
Just no, there
Carey (24:56):
It don't matter what breed you have.
A lot of people say, oh,certain, only certain chickens
fight.
Jennifer (25:00):
No,
Carey (25:00):
You put, you could have 20 male chickens in a pen and
everything's fine.
You let them hear.
A hen make a noise, boom, wegotta have a pecking order.
And they will establish thatcrap real fast.
(25:22):
Now, once it's done.
But the one that got picked onso much it, if you don't move,
it is not gonna work out realgood.
Jennifer (25:33):
Combs bleed profusely, but it's not, it looks worse
than it is.
Yeah.
And then also the next thingyou're gonna do is you're gonna
forget there's differencebetween large file and bantams,
and you're gonna end up withgiant orpingtons and some
silkies, and those aren't gonnago together real well.
So you're gonna need two pens,one for each of those.
Carey (25:55):
One for the orpingtons to lay the nice big pretty eggs and
one for the silkies to hatch'em.
Jennifer (26:01):
Yeah, exactly.
So regardless if you think we'reserious or not, plan space for
two pens.
Try to do'em 10 feet apart.
And if you think we're crazy,then just say, okay, I'm gonna
do it anyway.
And that way I can just rotate.
(26:22):
The pasture so they can eat allthe grass in one while you
reseed and straw the other one,and then move them to the other
one.
And that way they always havefresh grass to eat while they're
in their run.
Carey (26:33):
Oh, you do that and you'll have an amazing flock.
That'll be healthy living, goodpumping out eggs 24 7 365.
Like all the things you wantbecause you're giving them fresh
pasture all the time.
Jennifer (26:49):
Yep.
And then all y'all that aretelling us that we're crazy
right now, that you would neverdo that.
I want you to email us next falland let us know how many chicks
you got.
And how much you wanna talkabout chickens.
Carey (27:03):
Right now I only got about 15 chicks.
Jennifer (27:07):
We are not gonna talk about what I've got.
Okay, so I guess the lastcommentary would be on bird
density.
Just don't overpopulate yourpens.
It causes a lot of problems.
It causes a lot of sickness.
It causes pecking orderproblems, it causes fighting and
it, the ammonia builds up.
(27:30):
It's just a hot mess.
So if you truly only want fourbirds by, or build a coop for
eight, so they have plenty ofspace, don't buy the minimum.
And then go from there, becauseyou don't wanna cram 10 chickens
(27:51):
into a four by four prebuilt inbox
Carey (27:55):
coop.
I'm gonna tell you right now youfigure out how many chickens you
want and then you need to figure15 feet square feet per chicken
minimum.
For a couple reasons.
Number one, everybody recommends10, and by the time chicken math
(28:19):
happens, you might get there,but like she said, you, you
build it adequate for double atleast one and a half times what
you're thinking, double ifpossible, that way when it
happens, you're ready.
(28:39):
You know that's what I did.
I recently put in a couple ofstationary pens that I'm using.
One's gonna be for a ratherlarge, I have two large breeding
programs for birds and they'llbe in those,'cause they've got
(28:59):
the aerial nets and all thatkind of stuff.
But I've also, I'm at about onebird every 18, 19 feet and I got
a bunch of random stupid stuffthat I put in'em.
I've got an old above groundpool ladder.
I've got some saw horses thatare different heights that I've
(29:21):
made.
Put some stuff in there thatthey can get on, even if it's
just playing King of theMountain.
I have in one of my pens, thebottom of a 55 gallon drum, like
it's 10 inches deep or somethinglike that.
And you would think, that'sheavy.
They're not gonna knock it overthe bull crap.
(29:43):
I have seen them up on top ofit.
I've seen them in it and I'veseen it on its side.
But if you get crap like thatfor them to play with, they're
not gonna be as abusive to eachother.
Jennifer (29:59):
Dirt baths too.
Make sure they have loose dirtto play in all the time.
Carey (30:04):
I go through mine with a rotor tiller and lime pretty
regular.
Yeah.
Jennifer (30:08):
Oh, and that's the other thing we didn't hit on.
If you have a fixed coop, you'vegot to reed it and clean it all
the time.
If you have a tractor, you justmove it and mow it.
Carey (30:18):
Yeah.
And I, on that note, I suggestyou to do it right the first
time.
Because if you bed that suckerright the first time, you're
gonna spend a little bit moremoney.
But the maintenance that youhave to do through it over the
years is gonna be little insteadof a lot, because I have some
(30:38):
that I spent the money and I putpeat moss and I put sand and I
put stall pellets and all kindsof crap in there, probably 10
inches thick.
And I ain't done crap to themsince.
Except throw some lime on it.
Really thick, hit it with arotor tiller and move to the
(30:59):
next, and that's just because Idon't want any kind of disease
in my dirt.
And you
Jennifer (31:07):
through a lot of lime here, we're actually tilling all
of them tomorrow.
Carey (31:10):
Where there's poop, there's gonna be disease.
Which is why I don't likefeeding on the ground.
That's another podcast.
Jennifer (31:17):
Okay, so because we're gonna get lots of messages.
I know.
Illumina cos yes, we talk aboutIllumina cos'cause we both have
them.
Carrie is actually a dealer.
You can contact him if you wantone.
You can build them with.
Cattle wire and tarps andcheaper.
What I will say on all of thatstuff is make sure that you are
(31:39):
physically able to move them.
So consider that before youbuild them out of heavy wood.
That, that you can physicallymove them if you decide to go
with the tractor.
So that is a consideration to gowith those.
'cause I have had tractorsbefore that David built me that
I couldn't move if my lifedepended on it.
(31:59):
It was so heavy.
So make sure that you can dothat.
And then if you decide to do thestationary, just try to plan it
accordingly, that as you growthat
Carey (32:11):
it
Jennifer (32:11):
still works for you.
Carey (32:13):
So if you do the stationary, make sure that you
do it.
Put a little extra time intoplanning it and make sure that
you do it right the first time.
Otherwise, you'll be mad atyourself for redoing so much in
the pen to begin with.
Make sure.
Another thing that's probablybig is don't overcrowd it.
(32:35):
Overcrowding your chicken pensprobably leads to more disease
problems and maintenanceproblems than anything else.
Jennifer (32:46):
And there's no way to keep the rats out.
There's no amount of bearing it.
Mine is in concrete.
There is no amount of bearingit.
They will come in and justborrow inside of it.
They are the smartest.
Critters I think that I haveever battled.
And it's a battle.
(33:07):
They live in the gravel bedunderneath of my concrete slab
of my barn, and there's nothingyou can do about it.
The barn's 30 by 50.
What are you gonna do about it?
So they're there.
You just control them as bestyou can.
Carey (33:22):
Yep.
Jennifer (33:23):
So anyway, we'll leave that for another day or you can
text us.
Carey (33:28):
Yep.
Jennifer (33:29):
But make sure
Carey (33:30):
you like and follow us.
Check us out on our socialmedias.
You can send us messages there.
Carry it at and Jennifer atpoultry and nerd podcast.com.
You can email us directly if youdon't care which one of us
answers your questions.
Send it toinfo@poultrynerdspodcast.com and
(33:50):
the first one to see it.
We'll get back to you as soon aspossible.
Until then, we'll see you nexttime.
Jennifer (33:57):
All right.
Bye.
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