March 29, 2021 • 33 mins
Does spring give you the urge to plant or build? If your spring DIY project involves digging, be sure to call 8-1-1 first to submit a request to have underground utilities marked. It’s free, and it’s easy. Listen to Derek Leffert from Missouri One Call and Dan Ulhorn from Macon Electric Cooperative discuss how members can stay safe and avoid legal issues by calling 8-1-1 before they dig.
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Episode Transcript
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Erin (00:04):
Hi, my name is Erin , and I am a cooperative member. I
love being a cooperative memberbecause of the energy resources
that are available.
Harrison Waters (00:38):
Welcome to The Power For Your Life podcast,
where we focus on energyefficiency, the value of
electric, cooperativemembership, and safety around
electricity. I'm HarrisonWaters, your host, and today
we'll be discussing diggingsafely. You know, as the
weather warms up, you might beready to dig into some outdoor
projects, but remember, if yourproject involves actual
(01:00):
digging, there's some steps youmight want to take to comply
with laws. And staying safewith me by phone today to talk
about how to stay safe whenworking on projects that
involve digging is Dan Ulhornwith Macon Electric Cooperative
and Derrick Leffert withMissouri One Call. Thank you
both for joining me today.
Derrick Leffert (01:16):
Appreciate the invitation.
Dan Ulhorn (01:18):
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Harrison Waters (01:19):
Absolutely. So we know that we need to have
safe digging practices for manyreasons. You know, maybe tell
me to start, what's, what's themost important reason we need
to be safe while we're digging?
Derrick Leffert (01:31):
Well, I, I can probably start with that and
then Dan could certainly addinto this. Uh, you know, there
are , there's a significantrisk associated with people
that are, that are doingexcavation work, especially as
it relates to undergroundutilities. There's excavation,
safety, you know, trenchcollapses and things like that
to consider. But the primarything that they need to be
worried about is all of the,the various different lines
(01:52):
that are buried under theground, specifically the gas
and electric. You know, thoseare the things that could
certainly hurt you or kill you. So that's the , the primary
reason that that folks need touse our system.
Dan Ulhorn (02:03):
Yeah, I just kind of piggyback off that. Um ,
it's just really important thatour members are, know that
there's, it's real danger downthere and you can't see it
under the ground, but it's ,um, electricity and it's , um,
it , it only gives you onechance.
Harrison Waters (02:18):
Right. Now, is there a specific season that
this occurs or is this a yearround problem? Are a lot of
people in spring starting to dosome of these backyard
projects? So this is probablymore , you know, the more
common time period for it.
Derrick Leffert (02:32):
Yeah, you , this is April . April is a
actually safe digging month. Soit's an opportunity for us to
really kind of , uh, expose the, what, what is out there and
what folks need to be doing. Uh, and the reason April is safe
digging month is because forthe very reason that you just
mentioned, you know, there's,there's , uh, everybody's
wanting to , to get started ontheir , on their projects that
(02:53):
they've been waiting all winterto get done. So , uh, it's
now's a good time.
Dan Ulhorn (02:57):
Yeah, I agree. It's , um, you know, all the
stimulus checks and everythinggoing on and tax money coming
in, people have got a lot ofprojects this spring and , uh,
I would , I would guesstimatethere's be , there'd be a lot
of reasons to, to call, to digright. To make sure that you're
, uh, safe.
Harrison Waters (03:13):
Yeah, I'm sure that Covid did not slow down
the , uh, getting outside and ,and doing some backyard
projects, especially with thosestimulus checks that you
mentioned, Dan, for sure. Maybeif you can, Derek , go ahead
and , and start off by justtelling me some of the first
proper steps when it comes tostarting a backyard project
and, and what , uh, what arethe first necessary things you
(03:33):
need to do?
Derrick Leffert (03:34):
Yeah, so the first thing that , uh,
everybody needs to do is tocontact Missouri One call. Uh,
make sure you have all theinformation , uh, related to
what you're gonna be doing andwhere you're gonna be doing it
at. So all your address,location , uh, what, you know,
how deep you're gonna bedigging, what kind of tools
you're gonna be using. And then, uh, you can either call that
in or you can submit it online.
Uh, and submitting on online iscertainly easier, but , uh,
(03:57):
either way you , whether youcall it in or you submit it
online , uh, we would, we wouldjust encourage you to do that.
Take that very first step. Onceyou get that done, we're gonna
give you a list of theutilities that are in the area,
and , uh, you basically , uh,we'll provide that to you and
we'll send that to you in anemail address . Uh , in an
email. So if you got , if youprovide us with an email
address, we'll send that to you. Um, and then your
(04:20):
responsibility as an excavatordoesn't matter if you're a
homeowner or if you're aprofessional contractor, your
responsibility is to, to makesure that you check off and
make sure that all thoseutilities have responded to
that locate request. So, youknow, when you, when you see
the, the blue marks, the watercompany has responded, when you
see the red marks, the electriccompany has responded in yellow
for gas. So just check thoseoff and make sure all of 'em
(04:43):
have responded. And , and thenwe would always encourage folks
right before they begin theirexcavation to take what we call
pre-ex excavation photos, whichmeans that , um, you , you take
out your , your cell phonecamera or, or any other type of
camera, and just take picturesof what that site looks like
right before you begin yourexcavation. And there's a
(05:05):
variety of different reasons todo that, but those are the ,
the first initial steps that wewould encourage folks to take.
Harrison Waters (05:12):
Yeah, that's great. You know, piggybacking
off of that, you mentioned yourcell phone , and I know that
technology's made things a loteasier to snap those photos
and, and get everything outthere when it comes to
checking, you know, where thelines are and all that . Has
technology played a big role inhow , uh, safe digging, you
know, has evolved over theyears?
Derrick Leffert (05:34):
Uh, Dan, are you located?
Dan Ulhorn (05:36):
Um, no, I have located , um, but uh , I
haven't , haven't done it for afew years, but technology has
definitely, definitely madethings , um, I think flow
better on the paperwork side ofthings and after the marking,
but the still , um, the goodold fashioned paint and
locating is , is the same.
Derrick Leffert (05:54):
Yeah, there's certainly been advances in, in
, in, like Dan said, you know,in the , in the , in the
technology realm as far as, youknow , processing a locate
request, at least on our end,we consistently invest in, in
research and development. Uh,but beyond that, I think the,
the machines that are used toactually locate the lines , uh,
are, are certainly gettingbetter, but it's never going to
(06:16):
be an exact science becausethere's a variety of different
things that could , uh, impacthow, how accurate those locates
are. So , uh, technologycertainly is improving, and,
you know, Missouri One Call is, is heavily invested in making
sure that, that we continue to,to make it easier , uh, for
folks to submit their locaterequests and , uh, provide them
(06:38):
with the tools and resourcesthat they need. But , uh, it ,
it's never gonna be an exactscience, unfortunately.
Harrison Waters (06:44):
Right. Yeah.
And so maybe for those newhomeowners out there, someone
who's never made these calls,maybe someone who has never,
you know, taken on a backyardproject , um, up to either one
of you, you know , can youexplain that process of how,
you know, the tools that areused to locate the wires , um,
or, or the underground , um,utility that we're looking for
(07:07):
here? Can you maybe just highlevel explain how that, how
that's done?
Derrick Leffert (07:11):
Well, I've never been a locator, so I'm
gonna defer to Dan on that andjust kind of fill in the gaps
there where
Dan Ulhorn (07:17):
Sure. Um, yeah, they , the , he, he is right,
right? The technology's beengreat, but there's, you know,
back in the old days , um, I ,you know, guys would take two
pieces of copper and they couldwalk by and they call it
witching, and they could find awater line, and some people
really was really good at it. Istill don't know how that
works, but they could actuallyuse that. But , um, a lot of
(07:38):
times on the water side of it,they actually, they, every time
they put a new line in, theyput a wire in there, they can
hook up to a locator andactually tone the line and get
really accurate. Some of theold water lines, you're ,
you're not gonna , um, kind offind, it's kind of by a mapping
system with electricity, we usekind of the magnetic field or
the power of the wire that thatproduces, and we can find , um,
(08:01):
the , um, the current goingthrough there, and that our
machines will actually pickthat current up and locate it.
And then we, we also have adeal where we can actually hook
something onto the wire itself,and , and they call it toning .
That puts a signal out there,and then we can find the , uh,
the actual depth , uh, whereit's at. Um, you know, Derek
(08:21):
said before, things are, youknow, not always accurate, and
that's true. Um, you get intosubdivisions and bigger
subdivisions where you can havemultiple underground , um,
primary line underneath therethat , um, magnetic field can
kind of mess up the locator. So, um, we always, were pretty
good at it, and we contractedcompany and our , our linemen ,
(08:45):
um, do the marking ourselvestoo. But , um, it's, you still
gotta be careful and you can't,just because it says clear,
just, you know, go at it full,full bore. You need to be
careful when you're digging.
Derrick Leffert (08:56):
Just to kinda add to that, I mean, so
there's, there's a variety ofdifferent methods to use.
Witching sticks is the less , the less , uh, the
lesser of all the evils. Ithink surprisingly, it , it
does work for some people, andI , I've actually tried it and
it actually does work, but wecertainly would not recommend ,
uh, utilities to , to locatetheir facilities in that , in
(09:18):
that manner. Yeah . Uh , you'reessentially just inducing that
radio frequency on whateverline you're trying to locate.
And then , uh, once, once thatis done, then they, they
basically take their , theirreceiver, they've got the
transmitter that induces theradio frequency, and they've
got the receiver, and they goout, you'll see 'em swinging
back and forth, and , uh,they're trying to basically
(09:39):
pick up the peak of that signalis what they're trying to do.
And it's, it's, you know, itvaries depending on what
they're trying to locate, but ,uh, it , it's a very, very
complex process to findsomething you can't see.
Harrison Waters (09:51):
Yeah, I bet that's something that , um, I,
I wouldn't even know where tostart and, you know, we'll make
sure that we clarify thatwitching sticks is not the
recommended choice there, butI'm very familiar with that,
and it , it definitely doeslook like , um, I , first time
I saw it, I thought someone wasperforming a magic trick, so,
yeah.
Dan Ulhorn (10:07):
Yeah. We're not recommended it , but it's, it's
kind of neat when you , whenyou say it works , but I , I
definitely wouldn't, I wouldn't, uh, bet on it for sure.
Mm-hmm.,
Harrison Waters (10:17):
You know, when it comes to these projects, I
pr I , I would guess that alittle bit of the issue is, you
know, people get anxious. They,they haven't done the proper
planning. They go out in thebackyard , they've got the
shovel out, they're ready toinstall that, you know , uh,
in-ground pool or whatever itis, and they probably are
getting ready to go. What kindof planning do they need to do,
and how much time, you know,when it comes to making the ne
(10:39):
necessary steps , um, you know,how long before they can get
someone out there, is it, youknow, should they expect to
call a day in advance a coupledays in advance when they
submit that request? What's theti you know, turnaround time
for them?
Derrick Leffert (10:53):
Missouri law requires that , uh, excavators,
no matter what type ofexcavator you are , whether
you're a homeowner or aprofessional contractor , uh,
that they contact us two daysplus a day that it's called in.
So we always tell folks to, togive us three days advanced
notice. So , uh, you know, ifyou wanna start a project on
Saturday, the latest you'regonna contact us is gonna be on
(11:13):
Wednesday. So utilities, again,have the two days plus the day
that it's called in .
Harrison Waters (11:17):
Yeah. That's great information then . No .
Um, and I'm sure weather playsa big factor in that. I know I
had some done in my yard forsome septic work, and then all
of a sudden, you know, theyweren't able to come out and
excavate in my yard. So thenthe, the postings , um, that
were in place had to be redone.
Uh, I know that's important. Iknow you're not , uh, you know,
supposed to go out there andhave faded , um, marks on your
(11:40):
yard. So maybe explain how theweather plays that role or
being delayed, and why, why itis so important to, to make
sure you do this right.
Derrick Leffert (11:50):
Well, so the , the law actually requires
renewal requests when the ,when the marks have become
faded or diminished due toweather construction or other
causes. Uh , Missouri lawactually requires that , uh,
any excavator submit a, arenewal request. And the reason
for that is because , uh,there's, you know, when, when
the , when the marks begin tofade or they become diminished,
(12:13):
or they're, they're, they'requestionable , uh, then
there's, there's someadditional risk associated with
that. And, and so , uh, a lotof times people make the
mistake. They, they , theyrefresh their own tickets,
right? So they just grabwhatever color paint they have,
and they go out there and theyrefresh their own whatever
marks were there. The problemwith that is that when, when
folks do that, they assume theliability if it was mismarked
(12:36):
in the first place, and thentypically, you know, usually p
folks don't have multipledifferent , uh, colors of
paint. So they go out there andmaybe they, they have a , you
know, a orange can of spraypaint, and they use that orange
can of spray paint to , uh,renew the gas marks. Well,
people typically dig , uh, alot more carefully around gas
(12:58):
than they do aroundtelecommunications lines. So
there's that risk associatedwith that there as well. Yeah,
Harrison Waters (13:04):
That's good.
Let's go ahead and take a shortbreak, and when we come back,
Dan and Derek are gonna sharesome more of our digging safety
tips.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Are you planning to landscape or build an addition
to your home? If so, be sure toget utilities located and
marked before you dig. Call 8 11 at least three business days
in advance. It's a free calland it can save you time and
money while keeping you safe.
Learn how to avoid undergroundutilities@safeelectricity.org.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
Visit members first dot co-op to learn more energy
efficiency. Tip number 1 0 1,plant trees and shrubs to
provide shade on the east,south, and west sides of your
home. Evergreen trees andshrubs can provide a wind break
on the north side. Visit. Takecontrol and save dot co-op to
(14:13):
learn more .
Harrison Waters (14:36):
All right , we are back with the Power For
Your Life podcast, and todayI'm visiting with Dan Yoho ,
with Macon Electric Cooperativeand Derek Leer with Missouri
One Call. Guys, you've given usa lot of great information
about this. Maybe, you know,let's tell people why this is
such a big deal. Um, what couldsome of the severities be , uh,
for not doing this properly?
Derrick Leffert (14:58):
So , I'll just tell you that there, there has
been fatalities as a result ofpeople not using the system the
way that it's supposed to beused. Uh, there has been
injuries, a number of differentinjuries , uh, and then
there's, there's fines that canbe levied as a result of people
not using the system the waythat they're supposed to. And
then also , uh, there, therecould be a significant cost to
(15:19):
repair the damages. So, youknow, there was an incident
back in Kansas City in 2012where , uh, uh, an underground
line was struck, an undergroundgas line was struck, the gas
migrated into a restaurant in avery, very populated area , uh,
in downtown Kansas City, blewthe restaurant up and killed
somebody inside thatrestaurant. Uh, so that's the
worst case scenario.
(15:40):
Fortunately, that doesn'thappen a lot , uh, but it , it
can happen and does happen. Andso folks need to understand
that , um, you know, once whenfolks get into a an underground
electric line, they're gonnahave a pretty bad day there
too. So the gas in electricreally is what can hurt you or
kill you , and that's whatfolks need to make sure that
they're, they're the mostcognizant of. Uh, but beyond
(16:02):
that, the ags office can, canfind people, people aren't,
aren't calling in for locaterequests or utilities are not
locating the lines like they'resupposed to. Uh, by law, the
ags office can impose a $10,000penalty per violation on that.
So, you know, there's, there'ssome significant financial
penalties there as well. Inaddition to that, when you talk
(16:25):
about getting into fiber optictelephone lines, if you haven't
done what you're supposed to dounder the law , uh, and you
damage one of those, thoseunderground fiber optic lines,
those can be extraordinarilyexpensive to repair. And I ,
I'm talking in the hundreds ofthousands of dollars if you're
not doing what you're supposedto do. So that's just some of
the penalties. I'm sure Dan'sgot some, some good examples
(16:46):
of, of kind of things that he'sseen as well.
Dan Ulhorn (16:49):
Yeah, it's , um, it, it's kind of scary when in
the rural area. I think whenyou go into , uh, bigger city ,
um, you start to see less powerlines , um, in the air and ,
and you, you see a lot morestuff going on the ground just
because the , the , you know,to make it look better in the
city, and subdivisions are abig deal. They don't wanna see
all the poles in the, in theair, so you kind of think more
(17:12):
underground. But what whathappens to people is, is , uh,
you know, backyard or they gotan open field and , um, you
know, gas lines have been putin there years ago , uh, that
people, you know, forget aboutor didn't even know about in
fields and , um, in backyardsand front yards , um, that's
what gets people in trouble.
Electrical lines and primary ,um, especially is , you know,
(17:36):
is dangerous. And it's , youknow, our, our voltage here at
Macon is , uh, 7,200 and , um,that, that's a very dangerous
voltage, but also 110 and two40, you know, if you got a
meter pole and you got anunderground going in your house
or going to your shop , um,that can be just as dangerous
that , that electricity, itaffects people different. And ,
(17:59):
um, and a lot of people havegotten hurt. So it's, it's,
you've gotta really, if youwere going to dig, if you're
gonna put a shovel on theground , it doesn't hurt the
technology we talked aboutearlier. It's so easy to call ,
um, and to get somebody outthere and to check on that ,
uh, we, we've had a lot of, youknow, I was thinking of an
example when we was talkingabout earlier we had a , you
(18:19):
know, you put the flags out,you put the paint out, we had a
, a kid take the flag, so theythought that it was pretty cool
and took 'em home. Now themarking's gone. So you , uh,
you , you want to plan aheadand , and , and before you just
do a project and take the timeto say, Hey, it's gonna take
three days. Um, and that wayyou're digging as quickly as
(18:41):
possible after everything ismarked. Uh , so those things
like that don't happen. Butyeah, you gotta , you gotta be
careful. And electricity, likeI said earlier, is very
unforgiving. So , um, itdoesn't hurt to make a phone
call cuz it could save , uh,yourself , um, and whoever's
working with you their lives.
Harrison Waters (18:58):
Wow. Yeah.
That's great information. So Iguess one of our, the biggest
takeaways for listeners hereis, you know, this isn't just a
recommendation. Um, you know,like Derek mentioned even
before that, you know, there issome legal obligations here to
avoid fines and to just dothings the right way. Um, you
know, from a safety perspective, um, could mean the difference
(19:20):
of , uh, injury or, orsomething, you know, more
severe. Um, is, is thereanything that, that does not
require, I know, you know, ifyou're digging in your flower
bed , you're fine. Is there anyarea that's okay or any depth
that's okay , uh, to be doing?
Derrick Leffert (19:38):
No, that's actually a common
misconception. People, peopleassume that if they're, if
they're just, you know, using ashovel that they don't have to
call, or if they're onlydigging a couple inches, you
know, doing the flower plantingor something like that, that
they don't have to call, that'sactually incorrect. Missouri
law requires anybody, anytimethey disturb the , the earth,
they are required by Missourilaw to contact us. Doesn't
matter if you're digging twoinches, two feet, doesn't
(20:00):
matter if you're using a track, hoe, backhoe, garden, hoe ,
uh, the law requires you tocontact Missouri one call. And
the reason for that is becauseutilities may have been
installed at whatever depthwhen they were initially
installed, but over the courseof time, erosion or
landscaping, things like thatcan change , uh, the depth of
that utility. So it's alwaysimportant for people to assume
(20:22):
that they're , that theutilities are just below the
surface.
Harrison Waters (20:26):
Wow, that , that's great information.
Certainly something I learned,I learned right there, you
know, you can't just ifyou're making a flower bed ,
it's not , uh, you know, it'snot a pass right away .
Derrick Leffert (20:36):
Yeah. And we find that a lot with, you know,
mailboxes. People say, well, I, you know, I'm , I'm just
installing a mailbox. Well ,where are you installing that
mailbox? You're installing thatmailbox right by the road, and
where are all the buriedutilities at Right by the road,
you know? So , uh, that's,that's why it's so important no
matter what they're doing thatthey, they contact us,
Harrison Waters (20:54):
Maybe tell us is, are there certain depths,
you know, I know we all shouldbe concerned, like Derek just
mentioned, any depth needs tobe checked, huh ? Are there
really common depths for allthese different lines? So when
people are, are , are doing,doing work that they're going
to expect to see things likemaybe what's, what does it look
like underground? Are therecertain things that are lower
(21:14):
than others? Um, when it comesto that?
Derrick Leffert (21:18):
Yeah . Dan, you wanna cover how deep your
electric lines are?
Dan Ulhorn (21:21):
Yeah, we , uh, we go four foot , four to five
foot. Um, depends on, like hewas talking about erosion or ,
um, if they're doing dirt work, um, well , if we know that we
talk to the contractor and theymight take some leveling off or
something, we'll , we'll godeeper, but our, our standard
is pretty much four foot , andthen we'll put a two foot , um,
tape inside their , uh, it'skind of an indicator that's,
(21:44):
you know, you're digging , uh,close to our, our line. Um, but
it's , uh, four foot where westart out at .
Derrick Leffert (21:51):
Yeah. And then the , the other utilities, you
know, are , it's varies .
Typically, yourtelecommunication lines are
buried, the , the most shallow, um, they generally take the
path, at least resistance onthose telephone lines. Uh,
natural gas lines wouldprobably be the next , uh, uh,
most shallow. And then, youknow, your water lines are
gonna be below the frost line .
(22:11):
Sewer lines are typically gonnabe deeper just for, you know,
the gravity feed reasons. Uh,and then electric lines are
gonna be somewhere in between.
So , uh, there's no legalrequirement in Missouri for
them to , uh, bury it at anycertain depth. Uh , there are
certain standards like , uh,like Dan mentioned, they've got
a , you know, a four to fivefoot standard. I think that's
probably consistent with theNational Electric Safety Code.
(22:34):
And so other, you know, otherutilities certainly have
recommendations that they needto follow as well, but they,
they're not legally required todo those. In those times . They
don't. And you know, one ofthe, the reasons that, that we
can't impose a , uh, astatewide , um, depth is
because the , the , the soilconditions are, are vastly
(22:56):
different in southern Missourithan they are up in, you know,
the , the river bottoms innorthern Missouri. You know,
it's, it's pretty much all rockdown in the near Branson area.
And , uh, you get up, you know, north east in the farmland
area, you see it a lot more ,uh, you know, it's a lot easier
to dig up there. So that'sanother reason that it's, it's
(23:16):
not required.
Harrison Waters (23:18):
And do you guys get as many calls or, or
issues with the , um,commercial side of things
versus , uh, the residential?
You know, are they havingissues with digging just as
much as residential or kind of,what's the mix there? When it
comes to , um, the, thedifferences for, for dig
safety,
Derrick Leffert (23:36):
Probably the majority of our locate requests
are from professionalcontractors that are doing, you
know, commercial type work,like utility installations,
things like that. Um, ourhomeowner volume accounts for a
lot less. However, last yearour homeowner volume, when
everybody was stuck at homeduring covid and everybody was
(23:57):
doing projects, our homeownervolume went up almost 25%. So ,
um, we, we certainly seehomeowner calls and, and
homeowners are oftentimes a lotless , uh, more know , a lot
less knowledgeable about theone call process and what they
need to be doing. So there's a, there's a real danger there
with, with homeowners becausethey don't know exactly what
(24:20):
they need to be doing and, and, uh, you know, there's that
risk there too.
Dan Ulhorn (24:23):
Yeah, we , um, our , our commercial people,
they've, they , you know, theydon't wanna be fine and they
wanna get their guys hurt, soit's, they're usually really
good at it. They kind of knowthe laws, but , uh, um, just to
piggyback what he was saying,it , uh, homeowners, they don't
know that. But I think that'swhat's really good with
associated in kind of our , howwe work at co-ops. We educate
(24:44):
our members. I do fourth gradedemonstrations and one of my ,
uh, deal that I do with talkingwith the kids is talking about
8 1 1 and , um, uh, you know,using that commercial as much
as I can, and I'm surprised allthe time how many teachers are
like, well , they didn't knowthat. And so it's our job as a
, as a cooperative in the stateof Missouri to educate our
(25:05):
members , um, that they cancall. And I think that's
getting , um, over the years,I'd say over say the last 10
years, that's really improvedand pretty much everybody's is
, is knows that, but , um, it'sa good reminder for all of us
to, we gotta educate our,educate our members the best we
can so they know the facts.
Harrison Waters (25:24):
Yeah. And Dan, are there any other situations
where, you know, members wouldcontact, you know, a co-op
directly or, or just notify youall and it , what situations
would those be if, if thereare?
Dan Ulhorn (25:36):
Oh yeah, there's, there's emergency. I mean, we ,
we'll roll a truck for, foranybody that , uh, you know,
there's emergency situation.
Um, they, they've maybe they ,they've looked up and they've
seen, hey, there's a padmounted transformer there that
, you know, they've seen one ofour danger signs or, or
something like that. Um,they'll , they'll call and ,
and we'll, we'll come out and ,and help them out. Um , working
(25:59):
with our , with our towns anddigging , um, with our
utilities, we'll come out andhelp them first, but we
contract. And , um, also withsome of our locates now , um,
they do a really good job forus, but , uh, yeah, people can
directly call the co-op and wewill get 'em in the right
direction and help 'em . Um, wecan , you can go to our website
(26:20):
, um, and we got a place whereyou can locate online for a
request. So, we'll , either way, um, if it's , if it's a
member of the co-op, don'thesitate to call us, we'll help
you out.
Harrison Waters (26:31):
Great. And, and whose responsibility is it
to, to mark private lines , um,and , and to go out and do that
for, for the members?
Dan Ulhorn (26:39):
Oh , at , at , at Macon we can , um, we'll do
that for a fee. Uh, we takecare of everything , uh, to the
meter. Anything under the meter, um, to the residence , um, or
commercial is, is on, is onthem, but we will, for a fee,
we will be happy to do that.
Derrick Leffert (26:55):
Yeah, and that's an important point to
note here. It , you know,co-ops are really, really good
about kind of helping theirmembers out. Uh, most of the
other utilities will not dothat, so utilities are only
required to mark what they ownand operate. So let's, let's
say you're , you're , um,investor owned utilities or
municipal utilities, a lot oftimes if there's a line, you
(27:16):
know, a private line that runsmaybe from the house to a , a
shed or a barn or somethinglike that , uh, they won't,
they won't take the liabilityof, of marking those lines. So
they're just required to markwhat they own and operate. And
there's a , there's amisconception really all across
the state that, that peopleassume that all in the line
(27:36):
they're gonna be marked when infact, that's not the case. It's
just the public utility lines.
So things like, you know,propane gas lines , um, like
those lines that go from thehouse to , uh, you know, barns
or sheds or pools or whatever.
Uh , those, those are not goingto be marked , uh, unless you
specifically hire someone to dothat.
Harrison Waters (27:57):
Yeah, that's great information. Uh, is there
anything else you guys wouldlike to really stress to , uh,
listeners today about thistopic before they go into , um,
some of these spring projectsthat they're planning?
Dan Ulhorn (28:08):
I think for the co-op side of it, you can just
, uh, don't hesitate to call it, it , it doesn't, it doesn't
take a few minutes to, to makesure things are safe. And if
something doesn't feel right ordoesn't look right, then um,
call us and we'll, we'll beglad to help anybody out , um,
to make sure that they're, thatthey're taken care of and , um,
that nobody gets hurt. That's,that's the end goal is , um,
(28:31):
the financial part of it isreal, but in the end , we want
everybody to , um, not gethurt.
Derrick Leffert (28:37):
Yeah. And I just wanna add too , that it's,
it's a free service. Doesn'tcost anybody to use the service
to call to get their lineslocated. Missouri, one call
just is, is, is operated muchlike a , uh, a cooperative is.
So we are member owned , wheremember governed , uh, we're a
nonprofit organization , uh,and it we're funded solely by
(28:59):
the utilities. It's aninsurance policy for the
utilities, basically. So itdoesn't cost anybody anything
to use this system If , youknow, if you're gonna be doing
some excavation work, it's justgonna cost you a few minutes of
your time. I will tell you ,uh, just to kind of add on to
that, it , the , the attorneygeneral's office who has the
enforcement authority over onecall has gotten very, very
(29:21):
aggressive with the enforcementof the law after that incident
in Kansas City happened. Andthere was the fatality there ,
uh, the ags office took, tooknote of that, and they have
gotten very, very aggressivewith the enforcement of the
law. So , uh, it's, it's notgonna cost you anything but a
few minutes of your time. It'sgonna save you a lot of
headache, a lot of hassle, andit's gonna keep you safe. Uh,
(29:42):
and we appreciate all that theco-ops are doing to, to help us
promote safe digging practices.
Harrison Waters (29:48):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you both. Derek ,is there a or is there a place
that , uh, listeners can go toto learn a little bit more if
they have any additionalquestions?
Derrick Leffert (29:55):
Yeah, absolutely. It's www.mo one
call.com. It's , uh, you know,there's a wealth of information
there that, that folks can, cancheck out. And if they have any
questions, by all means, don'thesitate to reach out to us or
, uh, you know, you cancertainly reach out to folks
like Dan or , or any of theother co-ops throughout the
state. I'm sure they'd be happyto answer your questions as
well.
Harrison Waters (30:16):
So we've been talking a lot about Missouri,
but we have members that are inIowa and Oklahoma. Is there
anything else that they shouldtake into consideration?
Derrick Leffert (30:25):
Yeah, so there's a , there's a
nationwide, you know ,nationwide organization called
the Common Ground Alliance, oryou know, call eight one
one.com is also a , a websiteresource as well. Um, there,
there are places just likeMissouri, one call in every
state, but there aredifferences between the laws.
(30:45):
So , uh, Oki eight 11 is the ,uh, Oklahoma version of
Missouri One Call. Uh, and thenIowa has their own version as
well. There are differentnuances between the states.
Some of the , some of thestates have a smaller tolerance
zone. Some of the states have ,uh, you know, they don't give
utilities as much time tolocate their, their facilities.
(31:05):
So there are various different, uh, rule changes in different
states . The concept's the same, uh, you know, safe excavation
no matter where you're at. Andactually 8 1 11 is, you know, a
nationwide call before you dignumber . So if you're down in
the , uh, Joplin area, youknow, you dial 8 1 11, it's
probably gonna ask you whetheror not you're looking for Oki
eight 11 or if you're lookingfor Missouri one call. Uh, so
(31:28):
it , you know, 8 1 11nationwide number. Uh, but it ,
the concept is the same nomatter what. We want folks to
be safe no matter where they'reat.
Harrison Waters (31:37):
Great. Well, thank you both. This has been ,
uh, fantastic. I know I'velearned a lot and , um, knowing
how important it is to, youknow, have the proper steps in
place before you dig and, andtake on those projects. So
thank you both for joining metoday. Anytime .
Derrick Leffert (31:51):
Thanks for ,
Harrison Waters (31:52):
This has been great. A lot of great tips for
digging safely. So before youtackle your spring projects,
you know , make sure you takethe correct steps for digging
safely. And that is it fortoday.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
Thanks for listening to The Power for Your Life
Podcast. To learn more aboutthis topic and other safety,
efficiency and energytechnology information, contact
your local electriccooperative, or visit us on the
web at members first dot co-op.
You can also follow us onsocial media at
(32:25):
facebook.com/members. Firstcooperatives
pinterest.com/members first orinstagram.com/members. First ,
if you have a question or topicyou would like us to consider
for an upcoming episode, emailus at members first , a eci.org
(32:46):
.
Hi, my name is Erin , and I am a cooperative member. I
love being a cooperative memberbecause of the energy resources
that are available.
Harrison Waters (00:38):
Welcome to The Power For Your Life podcast,
where we focus on energyefficiency, the value of
electric, cooperativemembership, and safety around
electricity. I'm HarrisonWaters, your host, and today
we'll be discussing diggingsafely. You know, as the
weather warms up, you might beready to dig into some outdoor
projects, but remember, if yourproject involves actual
(01:00):
digging, there's some steps youmight want to take to comply
with laws. And staying safewith me by phone today to talk
about how to stay safe whenworking on projects that
involve digging is Dan Ulhornwith Macon Electric Cooperative
and Derrick Leffert withMissouri One Call. Thank you
both for joining me today.
Derrick Leffert (01:16):
Appreciate the invitation.
Dan Ulhorn (01:18):
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Harrison Waters (01:19):
Absolutely. So we know that we need to have
safe digging practices for manyreasons. You know, maybe tell
me to start, what's, what's themost important reason we need
to be safe while we're digging?
Derrick Leffert (01:31):
Well, I, I can probably start with that and
then Dan could certainly addinto this. Uh, you know, there
are , there's a significantrisk associated with people
that are, that are doingexcavation work, especially as
it relates to undergroundutilities. There's excavation,
safety, you know, trenchcollapses and things like that
to consider. But the primarything that they need to be
worried about is all of the,the various different lines
(01:52):
that are buried under theground, specifically the gas
and electric. You know, thoseare the things that could
certainly hurt you or kill you. So that's the , the primary
reason that that folks need touse our system.
Dan Ulhorn (02:03):
Yeah, I just kind of piggyback off that. Um ,
it's just really important thatour members are, know that
there's, it's real danger downthere and you can't see it
under the ground, but it's ,um, electricity and it's , um,
it , it only gives you onechance.
Harrison Waters (02:18):
Right. Now, is there a specific season that
this occurs or is this a yearround problem? Are a lot of
people in spring starting to dosome of these backyard
projects? So this is probablymore , you know, the more
common time period for it.
Derrick Leffert (02:32):
Yeah, you , this is April . April is a
actually safe digging month. Soit's an opportunity for us to
really kind of , uh, expose the, what, what is out there and
what folks need to be doing. Uh, and the reason April is safe
digging month is because forthe very reason that you just
mentioned, you know, there's,there's , uh, everybody's
wanting to , to get started ontheir , on their projects that
(02:53):
they've been waiting all winterto get done. So , uh, it's
now's a good time.
Dan Ulhorn (02:57):
Yeah, I agree. It's , um, you know, all the
stimulus checks and everythinggoing on and tax money coming
in, people have got a lot ofprojects this spring and , uh,
I would , I would guesstimatethere's be , there'd be a lot
of reasons to, to call, to digright. To make sure that you're
, uh, safe.
Harrison Waters (03:13):
Yeah, I'm sure that Covid did not slow down
the , uh, getting outside and ,and doing some backyard
projects, especially with thosestimulus checks that you
mentioned, Dan, for sure. Maybeif you can, Derek , go ahead
and , and start off by justtelling me some of the first
proper steps when it comes tostarting a backyard project
and, and what , uh, what arethe first necessary things you
(03:33):
need to do?
Derrick Leffert (03:34):
Yeah, so the first thing that , uh,
everybody needs to do is tocontact Missouri One call. Uh,
make sure you have all theinformation , uh, related to
what you're gonna be doing andwhere you're gonna be doing it
at. So all your address,location , uh, what, you know,
how deep you're gonna bedigging, what kind of tools
you're gonna be using. And then, uh, you can either call that
in or you can submit it online.
Uh, and submitting on online iscertainly easier, but , uh,
(03:57):
either way you , whether youcall it in or you submit it
online , uh, we would, we wouldjust encourage you to do that.
Take that very first step. Onceyou get that done, we're gonna
give you a list of theutilities that are in the area,
and , uh, you basically , uh,we'll provide that to you and
we'll send that to you in anemail address . Uh , in an
email. So if you got , if youprovide us with an email
address, we'll send that to you. Um, and then your
(04:20):
responsibility as an excavatordoesn't matter if you're a
homeowner or if you're aprofessional contractor, your
responsibility is to, to makesure that you check off and
make sure that all thoseutilities have responded to
that locate request. So, youknow, when you, when you see
the, the blue marks, the watercompany has responded, when you
see the red marks, the electriccompany has responded in yellow
for gas. So just check thoseoff and make sure all of 'em
(04:43):
have responded. And , and thenwe would always encourage folks
right before they begin theirexcavation to take what we call
pre-ex excavation photos, whichmeans that , um, you , you take
out your , your cell phonecamera or, or any other type of
camera, and just take picturesof what that site looks like
right before you begin yourexcavation. And there's a
(05:05):
variety of different reasons todo that, but those are the ,
the first initial steps that wewould encourage folks to take.
Harrison Waters (05:12):
Yeah, that's great. You know, piggybacking
off of that, you mentioned yourcell phone , and I know that
technology's made things a loteasier to snap those photos
and, and get everything outthere when it comes to
checking, you know, where thelines are and all that . Has
technology played a big role inhow , uh, safe digging, you
know, has evolved over theyears?
Derrick Leffert (05:34):
Uh, Dan, are you located?
Dan Ulhorn (05:36):
Um, no, I have located , um, but uh , I
haven't , haven't done it for afew years, but technology has
definitely, definitely madethings , um, I think flow
better on the paperwork side ofthings and after the marking,
but the still , um, the goodold fashioned paint and
locating is , is the same.
Derrick Leffert (05:54):
Yeah, there's certainly been advances in, in
, in, like Dan said, you know,in the , in the , in the
technology realm as far as, youknow , processing a locate
request, at least on our end,we consistently invest in, in
research and development. Uh,but beyond that, I think the,
the machines that are used toactually locate the lines , uh,
are, are certainly gettingbetter, but it's never going to
(06:16):
be an exact science becausethere's a variety of different
things that could , uh, impacthow, how accurate those locates
are. So , uh, technologycertainly is improving, and,
you know, Missouri One Call is, is heavily invested in making
sure that, that we continue to,to make it easier , uh, for
folks to submit their locaterequests and , uh, provide them
(06:38):
with the tools and resourcesthat they need. But , uh, it ,
it's never gonna be an exactscience, unfortunately.
Harrison Waters (06:44):
Right. Yeah.
And so maybe for those newhomeowners out there, someone
who's never made these calls,maybe someone who has never,
you know, taken on a backyardproject , um, up to either one
of you, you know , can youexplain that process of how,
you know, the tools that areused to locate the wires , um,
or, or the underground , um,utility that we're looking for
(07:07):
here? Can you maybe just highlevel explain how that, how
that's done?
Derrick Leffert (07:11):
Well, I've never been a locator, so I'm
gonna defer to Dan on that andjust kind of fill in the gaps
there where
Dan Ulhorn (07:17):
Sure. Um, yeah, they , the , he, he is right,
right? The technology's beengreat, but there's, you know,
back in the old days , um, I ,you know, guys would take two
pieces of copper and they couldwalk by and they call it
witching, and they could find awater line, and some people
really was really good at it. Istill don't know how that
works, but they could actuallyuse that. But , um, a lot of
(07:38):
times on the water side of it,they actually, they, every time
they put a new line in, theyput a wire in there, they can
hook up to a locator andactually tone the line and get
really accurate. Some of theold water lines, you're ,
you're not gonna , um, kind offind, it's kind of by a mapping
system with electricity, we usekind of the magnetic field or
the power of the wire that thatproduces, and we can find , um,
(08:01):
the , um, the current goingthrough there, and that our
machines will actually pickthat current up and locate it.
And then we, we also have adeal where we can actually hook
something onto the wire itself,and , and they call it toning .
That puts a signal out there,and then we can find the , uh,
the actual depth , uh, whereit's at. Um, you know, Derek
(08:21):
said before, things are, youknow, not always accurate, and
that's true. Um, you get intosubdivisions and bigger
subdivisions where you can havemultiple underground , um,
primary line underneath therethat , um, magnetic field can
kind of mess up the locator. So, um, we always, were pretty
good at it, and we contractedcompany and our , our linemen ,
(08:45):
um, do the marking ourselvestoo. But , um, it's, you still
gotta be careful and you can't,just because it says clear,
just, you know, go at it full,full bore. You need to be
careful when you're digging.
Derrick Leffert (08:56):
Just to kinda add to that, I mean, so
there's, there's a variety ofdifferent methods to use.
Witching sticks is the less
lesser of all the evils. Ithink surprisingly, it , it
does work for some people, andI , I've actually tried it and
it actually does work, but wecertainly would not recommend ,
uh, utilities to , to locatetheir facilities in that , in
(09:18):
that manner. Yeah . Uh , you'reessentially just inducing that
radio frequency on whateverline you're trying to locate.
And then , uh, once, once thatis done, then they, they
basically take their , theirreceiver, they've got the
transmitter that induces theradio frequency, and they've
got the receiver, and they goout, you'll see 'em swinging
back and forth, and , uh,they're trying to basically
(09:39):
pick up the peak of that signalis what they're trying to do.
And it's, it's, you know, itvaries depending on what
they're trying to locate, but ,uh, it , it's a very, very
complex process to findsomething you can't see.
Harrison Waters (09:51):
Yeah, I bet that's something that , um, I,
I wouldn't even know where tostart and, you know, we'll make
sure that we clarify thatwitching sticks is not the
recommended choice there, butI'm very familiar with that,
and it , it definitely doeslook like , um, I , first time
I saw it, I thought someone wasperforming a magic trick, so,
yeah.
Dan Ulhorn (10:07):
Yeah. We're not recommended it , but it's, it's
kind of neat when you , whenyou say it works , but I , I
definitely wouldn't, I wouldn't, uh, bet on it for sure.
Mm-hmm.
Harrison Waters (10:17):
You know, when it comes to these projects, I
pr I , I would guess that alittle bit of the issue is, you
know, people get anxious. They,they haven't done the proper
planning. They go out in thebackyard , they've got the
shovel out, they're ready toinstall that, you know , uh,
in-ground pool or whatever itis, and they probably are
getting ready to go. What kindof planning do they need to do,
and how much time, you know,when it comes to making the ne
(10:39):
necessary steps , um, you know,how long before they can get
someone out there, is it, youknow, should they expect to
call a day in advance a coupledays in advance when they
submit that request? What's theti you know, turnaround time
for them?
Derrick Leffert (10:53):
Missouri law requires that , uh, excavators,
no matter what type ofexcavator you are , whether
you're a homeowner or aprofessional contractor , uh,
that they contact us two daysplus a day that it's called in.
So we always tell folks to, togive us three days advanced
notice. So , uh, you know, ifyou wanna start a project on
Saturday, the latest you'regonna contact us is gonna be on
(11:13):
Wednesday. So utilities, again,have the two days plus the day
that it's called in .
Harrison Waters (11:17):
Yeah. That's great information then . No .
Um, and I'm sure weather playsa big factor in that. I know I
had some done in my yard forsome septic work, and then all
of a sudden, you know, theyweren't able to come out and
excavate in my yard. So thenthe, the postings , um, that
were in place had to be redone.
Uh, I know that's important. Iknow you're not , uh, you know,
supposed to go out there andhave faded , um, marks on your
(11:40):
yard. So maybe explain how theweather plays that role or
being delayed, and why, why itis so important to, to make
sure you do this right.
Derrick Leffert (11:50):
Well, so the , the law actually requires
renewal requests when the ,when the marks have become
faded or diminished due toweather construction or other
causes. Uh , Missouri lawactually requires that , uh,
any excavator submit a, arenewal request. And the reason
for that is because , uh,there's, you know, when, when
the , when the marks begin tofade or they become diminished,
(12:13):
or they're, they're, they'requestionable , uh, then
there's, there's someadditional risk associated with
that. And, and so , uh, a lotof times people make the
mistake. They, they , theyrefresh their own tickets,
right? So they just grabwhatever color paint they have,
and they go out there and theyrefresh their own whatever
marks were there. The problemwith that is that when, when
folks do that, they assume theliability if it was mismarked
(12:36):
in the first place, and thentypically, you know, usually p
folks don't have multipledifferent , uh, colors of
paint. So they go out there andmaybe they, they have a , you
know, a orange can of spraypaint, and they use that orange
can of spray paint to , uh,renew the gas marks. Well,
people typically dig , uh, alot more carefully around gas
(12:58):
than they do aroundtelecommunications lines. So
there's that risk associatedwith that there as well. Yeah,
Harrison Waters (13:04):
That's good.
Let's go ahead and take a shortbreak, and when we come back,
Dan and Derek are gonna sharesome more of our digging safety
tips.
Speaker 5 (13:28):
Are you planning to landscape or build an addition
to your home? If so, be sure toget utilities located and
marked before you dig. Call 8 11 at least three business days
in advance. It's a free calland it can save you time and
money while keeping you safe.
Learn how to avoid undergroundutilities@safeelectricity.org.
Speaker 6 (13:51):
Visit members first dot co-op to learn more energy
efficiency. Tip number 1 0 1,plant trees and shrubs to
provide shade on the east,south, and west sides of your
home. Evergreen trees andshrubs can provide a wind break
on the north side. Visit. Takecontrol and save dot co-op to
(14:13):
learn more .
Harrison Waters (14:36):
All right , we are back with the Power For
Your Life podcast, and todayI'm visiting with Dan Yoho ,
with Macon Electric Cooperativeand Derek Leer with Missouri
One Call. Guys, you've given usa lot of great information
about this. Maybe, you know,let's tell people why this is
such a big deal. Um, what couldsome of the severities be , uh,
for not doing this properly?
Derrick Leffert (14:58):
So , I'll just tell you that there, there has
been fatalities as a result ofpeople not using the system the
way that it's supposed to beused. Uh, there has been
injuries, a number of differentinjuries , uh, and then
there's, there's fines that canbe levied as a result of people
not using the system the waythat they're supposed to. And
then also , uh, there, therecould be a significant cost to
(15:19):
repair the damages. So, youknow, there was an incident
back in Kansas City in 2012where , uh, uh, an underground
line was struck, an undergroundgas line was struck, the gas
migrated into a restaurant in avery, very populated area , uh,
in downtown Kansas City, blewthe restaurant up and killed
somebody inside thatrestaurant. Uh, so that's the
worst case scenario.
(15:40):
Fortunately, that doesn'thappen a lot , uh, but it , it
can happen and does happen. Andso folks need to understand
that , um, you know, once whenfolks get into a an underground
electric line, they're gonnahave a pretty bad day there
too. So the gas in electricreally is what can hurt you or
kill you , and that's whatfolks need to make sure that
they're, they're the mostcognizant of. Uh, but beyond
(16:02):
that, the ags office can, canfind people, people aren't,
aren't calling in for locaterequests or utilities are not
locating the lines like they'resupposed to. Uh, by law, the
ags office can impose a $10,000penalty per violation on that.
So, you know, there's, there'ssome significant financial
penalties there as well. Inaddition to that, when you talk
(16:25):
about getting into fiber optictelephone lines, if you haven't
done what you're supposed to dounder the law , uh, and you
damage one of those, thoseunderground fiber optic lines,
those can be extraordinarilyexpensive to repair. And I ,
I'm talking in the hundreds ofthousands of dollars if you're
not doing what you're supposedto do. So that's just some of
the penalties. I'm sure Dan'sgot some, some good examples
(16:46):
of, of kind of things that he'sseen as well.
Dan Ulhorn (16:49):
Yeah, it's , um, it, it's kind of scary when in
the rural area. I think whenyou go into , uh, bigger city ,
um, you start to see less powerlines , um, in the air and ,
and you, you see a lot morestuff going on the ground just
because the , the , you know,to make it look better in the
city, and subdivisions are abig deal. They don't wanna see
all the poles in the, in theair, so you kind of think more
(17:12):
underground. But what whathappens to people is, is , uh,
you know, backyard or they gotan open field and , um, you
know, gas lines have been putin there years ago , uh, that
people, you know, forget aboutor didn't even know about in
fields and , um, in backyardsand front yards , um, that's
what gets people in trouble.
Electrical lines and primary ,um, especially is , you know,
(17:36):
is dangerous. And it's , youknow, our, our voltage here at
Macon is , uh, 7,200 and , um,that, that's a very dangerous
voltage, but also 110 and two40, you know, if you got a
meter pole and you got anunderground going in your house
or going to your shop , um,that can be just as dangerous
that , that electricity, itaffects people different. And ,
(17:59):
um, and a lot of people havegotten hurt. So it's, it's,
you've gotta really, if youwere going to dig, if you're
gonna put a shovel on theground , it doesn't hurt the
technology we talked aboutearlier. It's so easy to call ,
um, and to get somebody outthere and to check on that ,
uh, we, we've had a lot of, youknow, I was thinking of an
example when we was talkingabout earlier we had a , you
(18:19):
know, you put the flags out,you put the paint out, we had a
, a kid take the flag, so theythought that it was pretty cool
and took 'em home. Now themarking's gone. So you , uh,
you , you want to plan aheadand , and , and before you just
do a project and take the timeto say, Hey, it's gonna take
three days. Um, and that wayyou're digging as quickly as
(18:41):
possible after everything ismarked. Uh , so those things
like that don't happen. Butyeah, you gotta , you gotta be
careful. And electricity, likeI said earlier, is very
unforgiving. So , um, itdoesn't hurt to make a phone
call cuz it could save , uh,yourself , um, and whoever's
working with you their lives.
Harrison Waters (18:58):
Wow. Yeah.
That's great information. So Iguess one of our, the biggest
takeaways for listeners hereis, you know, this isn't just a
recommendation. Um, you know,like Derek mentioned even
before that, you know, there issome legal obligations here to
avoid fines and to just dothings the right way. Um, you
know, from a safety perspective, um, could mean the difference
(19:20):
of , uh, injury or, orsomething, you know, more
severe. Um, is, is thereanything that, that does not
require, I know, you know, ifyou're digging in your flower
bed , you're fine. Is there anyarea that's okay or any depth
that's okay , uh, to be doing?
Derrick Leffert (19:38):
No, that's actually a common
misconception. People, peopleassume that if they're, if
they're just, you know, using ashovel that they don't have to
call, or if they're onlydigging a couple inches, you
know, doing the flower plantingor something like that, that
they don't have to call, that'sactually incorrect. Missouri
law requires anybody, anytimethey disturb the , the earth,
they are required by Missourilaw to contact us. Doesn't
matter if you're digging twoinches, two feet, doesn't
(20:00):
matter if you're using a track, hoe, backhoe, garden, hoe ,
uh, the law requires you tocontact Missouri one call. And
the reason for that is becauseutilities may have been
installed at whatever depthwhen they were initially
installed, but over the courseof time, erosion or
landscaping, things like thatcan change , uh, the depth of
that utility. So it's alwaysimportant for people to assume
(20:22):
that they're , that theutilities are just below the
surface.
Harrison Waters (20:26):
Wow, that , that's great information.
Certainly something I learned,I learned right there, you
know, you can't just
it's not , uh, you know, it'snot a pass right away .
Derrick Leffert (20:36):
Yeah. And we find that a lot with, you know,
mailboxes. People say, well, I, you know, I'm , I'm just
installing a mailbox. Well ,where are you installing that
mailbox? You're installing thatmailbox right by the road, and
where are all the buriedutilities at Right by the road,
you know? So , uh, that's,that's why it's so important no
matter what they're doing thatthey, they contact us,
Harrison Waters (20:54):
Maybe tell us is, are there certain depths,
you know, I know we all shouldbe concerned, like Derek just
mentioned, any depth needs tobe checked, huh ? Are there
really common depths for allthese different lines? So when
people are, are , are doing,doing work that they're going
to expect to see things likemaybe what's, what does it look
like underground? Are therecertain things that are lower
(21:14):
than others? Um, when it comesto that?
Derrick Leffert (21:18):
Yeah . Dan, you wanna cover how deep your
electric lines are?
Dan Ulhorn (21:21):
Yeah, we , uh, we go four foot , four to five
foot. Um, depends on, like hewas talking about erosion or ,
um, if they're doing dirt work, um, well , if we know that we
talk to the contractor and theymight take some leveling off or
something, we'll , we'll godeeper, but our, our standard
is pretty much four foot , andthen we'll put a two foot , um,
tape inside their , uh, it'skind of an indicator that's,
(21:44):
you know, you're digging , uh,close to our, our line. Um, but
it's , uh, four foot where westart out at .
Derrick Leffert (21:51):
Yeah. And then the , the other utilities, you
know, are , it's varies .
Typically, yourtelecommunication lines are
buried, the , the most shallow, um, they generally take the
path, at least resistance onthose telephone lines. Uh,
natural gas lines wouldprobably be the next , uh, uh,
most shallow. And then, youknow, your water lines are
gonna be below the frost line .
(22:11):
Sewer lines are typically gonnabe deeper just for, you know,
the gravity feed reasons. Uh,and then electric lines are
gonna be somewhere in between.
So , uh, there's no legalrequirement in Missouri for
them to , uh, bury it at anycertain depth. Uh , there are
certain standards like , uh,like Dan mentioned, they've got
a , you know, a four to fivefoot standard. I think that's
probably consistent with theNational Electric Safety Code.
(22:34):
And so other, you know, otherutilities certainly have
recommendations that they needto follow as well, but they,
they're not legally required todo those. In those times . They
don't. And you know, one ofthe, the reasons that, that we
can't impose a , uh, astatewide , um, depth is
because the , the , the soilconditions are, are vastly
(22:56):
different in southern Missourithan they are up in, you know,
the , the river bottoms innorthern Missouri. You know,
it's, it's pretty much all rockdown in the near Branson area.
And , uh, you get up, you know, north east in the farmland
area, you see it a lot more ,uh, you know, it's a lot easier
to dig up there. So that'sanother reason that it's, it's
(23:16):
not required.
Harrison Waters (23:18):
And do you guys get as many calls or, or
issues with the , um,commercial side of things
versus , uh, the residential?
You know, are they havingissues with digging just as
much as residential or kind of,what's the mix there? When it
comes to , um, the, thedifferences for, for dig
safety,
Derrick Leffert (23:36):
Probably the majority of our locate requests
are from professionalcontractors that are doing, you
know, commercial type work,like utility installations,
things like that. Um, ourhomeowner volume accounts for a
lot less. However, last yearour homeowner volume, when
everybody was stuck at homeduring covid and everybody was
(23:57):
doing projects, our homeownervolume went up almost 25%. So ,
um, we, we certainly seehomeowner calls and, and
homeowners are oftentimes a lotless , uh, more know , a lot
less knowledgeable about theone call process and what they
need to be doing. So there's a, there's a real danger there
with, with homeowners becausethey don't know exactly what
(24:20):
they need to be doing and, and, uh, you know, there's that
risk there too.
Dan Ulhorn (24:23):
Yeah, we , um, our , our commercial people,
they've, they , you know, theydon't wanna be fine and they
wanna get their guys hurt, soit's, they're usually really
good at it. They kind of knowthe laws, but , uh, um, just to
piggyback what he was saying,it , uh, homeowners, they don't
know that. But I think that'swhat's really good with
associated in kind of our , howwe work at co-ops. We educate
(24:44):
our members. I do fourth gradedemonstrations and one of my ,
uh, deal that I do with talkingwith the kids is talking about
8 1 1 and , um, uh, you know,using that commercial as much
as I can, and I'm surprised allthe time how many teachers are
like, well , they didn't knowthat. And so it's our job as a
, as a cooperative in the stateof Missouri to educate our
(25:05):
members , um, that they cancall. And I think that's
getting , um, over the years,I'd say over say the last 10
years, that's really improvedand pretty much everybody's is
, is knows that, but , um, it'sa good reminder for all of us
to, we gotta educate our,educate our members the best we
can so they know the facts.
Harrison Waters (25:24):
Yeah. And Dan, are there any other situations
where, you know, members wouldcontact, you know, a co-op
directly or, or just notify youall and it , what situations
would those be if, if thereare?
Dan Ulhorn (25:36):
Oh yeah, there's, there's emergency. I mean, we ,
we'll roll a truck for, foranybody that , uh, you know,
there's emergency situation.
Um, they, they've maybe they ,they've looked up and they've
seen, hey, there's a padmounted transformer there that
, you know, they've seen one ofour danger signs or, or
something like that. Um,they'll , they'll call and ,
and we'll, we'll come out and ,and help them out. Um , working
(25:59):
with our , with our towns anddigging , um, with our
utilities, we'll come out andhelp them first, but we
contract. And , um, also withsome of our locates now , um,
they do a really good job forus, but , uh, yeah, people can
directly call the co-op and wewill get 'em in the right
direction and help 'em . Um, wecan , you can go to our website
(26:20):
, um, and we got a place whereyou can locate online for a
request. So, we'll , either way, um, if it's , if it's a
member of the co-op, don'thesitate to call us, we'll help
you out.
Harrison Waters (26:31):
Great. And, and whose responsibility is it
to, to mark private lines , um,and , and to go out and do that
for, for the members?
Dan Ulhorn (26:39):
Oh , at , at , at Macon we can , um, we'll do
that for a fee. Uh, we takecare of everything , uh, to the
meter. Anything under the meter, um, to the residence , um, or
commercial is, is on, is onthem, but we will, for a fee,
we will be happy to do that.
Derrick Leffert (26:55):
Yeah, and that's an important point to
note here. It , you know,co-ops are really, really good
about kind of helping theirmembers out. Uh, most of the
other utilities will not dothat, so utilities are only
required to mark what they ownand operate. So let's, let's
say you're , you're , um,investor owned utilities or
municipal utilities, a lot oftimes if there's a line, you
(27:16):
know, a private line that runsmaybe from the house to a , a
shed or a barn or somethinglike that , uh, they won't,
they won't take the liabilityof, of marking those lines. So
they're just required to markwhat they own and operate. And
there's a , there's amisconception really all across
the state that, that peopleassume that all in the line
(27:36):
they're gonna be marked when infact, that's not the case. It's
just the public utility lines.
So things like, you know,propane gas lines , um, like
those lines that go from thehouse to , uh, you know, barns
or sheds or pools or whatever.
Uh , those, those are not goingto be marked , uh, unless you
specifically hire someone to dothat.
Harrison Waters (27:57):
Yeah, that's great information. Uh, is there
anything else you guys wouldlike to really stress to , uh,
listeners today about thistopic before they go into , um,
some of these spring projectsthat they're planning?
Dan Ulhorn (28:08):
I think for the co-op side of it, you can just
, uh, don't hesitate to call it, it , it doesn't, it doesn't
take a few minutes to, to makesure things are safe. And if
something doesn't feel right ordoesn't look right, then um,
call us and we'll, we'll beglad to help anybody out , um,
to make sure that they're, thatthey're taken care of and , um,
that nobody gets hurt. That's,that's the end goal is , um,
(28:31):
the financial part of it isreal, but in the end , we want
everybody to , um, not gethurt.
Derrick Leffert (28:37):
Yeah. And I just wanna add too , that it's,
it's a free service. Doesn'tcost anybody to use the service
to call to get their lineslocated. Missouri, one call
just is, is, is operated muchlike a , uh, a cooperative is.
So we are member owned , wheremember governed , uh, we're a
nonprofit organization , uh,and it we're funded solely by
(28:59):
the utilities. It's aninsurance policy for the
utilities, basically. So itdoesn't cost anybody anything
to use this system If , youknow, if you're gonna be doing
some excavation work, it's justgonna cost you a few minutes of
your time. I will tell you ,uh, just to kind of add on to
that, it , the , the attorneygeneral's office who has the
enforcement authority over onecall has gotten very, very
(29:21):
aggressive with the enforcementof the law after that incident
in Kansas City happened. Andthere was the fatality there ,
uh, the ags office took, tooknote of that, and they have
gotten very, very aggressivewith the enforcement of the
law. So , uh, it's, it's notgonna cost you anything but a
few minutes of your time. It'sgonna save you a lot of
headache, a lot of hassle, andit's gonna keep you safe. Uh,
(29:42):
and we appreciate all that theco-ops are doing to, to help us
promote safe digging practices.
Harrison Waters (29:48):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you both. Derek ,is there a or is there a place
that , uh, listeners can go toto learn a little bit more if
they have any additionalquestions?
Derrick Leffert (29:55):
Yeah, absolutely. It's www.mo one
call.com. It's , uh, you know,there's a wealth of information
there that, that folks can, cancheck out. And if they have any
questions, by all means, don'thesitate to reach out to us or
, uh, you know, you cancertainly reach out to folks
like Dan or , or any of theother co-ops throughout the
state. I'm sure they'd be happyto answer your questions as
well.
Harrison Waters (30:16):
So we've been talking a lot about Missouri,
but we have members that are inIowa and Oklahoma. Is there
anything else that they shouldtake into consideration?
Derrick Leffert (30:25):
Yeah, so there's a , there's a
nationwide, you know ,nationwide organization called
the Common Ground Alliance, oryou know, call eight one
one.com is also a , a websiteresource as well. Um, there,
there are places just likeMissouri, one call in every
state, but there aredifferences between the laws.
(30:45):
So , uh, Oki eight 11 is the ,uh, Oklahoma version of
Missouri One Call. Uh, and thenIowa has their own version as
well. There are differentnuances between the states.
Some of the , some of thestates have a smaller tolerance
zone. Some of the states have ,uh, you know, they don't give
utilities as much time tolocate their, their facilities.
(31:05):
So there are various different, uh, rule changes in different
states . The concept's the same, uh, you know, safe excavation
no matter where you're at. Andactually 8 1 11 is, you know, a
nationwide call before you dignumber . So if you're down in
the , uh, Joplin area, youknow, you dial 8 1 11, it's
probably gonna ask you whetheror not you're looking for Oki
eight 11 or if you're lookingfor Missouri one call. Uh, so
(31:28):
it , you know, 8 1 11nationwide number. Uh, but it ,
the concept is the same nomatter what. We want folks to
be safe no matter where they'reat.
Harrison Waters (31:37):
Great. Well, thank you both. This has been ,
uh, fantastic. I know I'velearned a lot and , um, knowing
how important it is to, youknow, have the proper steps in
place before you dig and, andtake on those projects. So
thank you both for joining metoday. Anytime .
Derrick Leffert (31:51):
Thanks for ,
Harrison Waters (31:52):
This has been great. A lot of great tips for
digging safely. So before youtackle your spring projects,
you know , make sure you takethe correct steps for digging
safely. And that is it fortoday.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
Thanks for listening to The Power for Your Life
Podcast. To learn more aboutthis topic and other safety,
efficiency and energytechnology information, contact
your local electriccooperative, or visit us on the
web at members first dot co-op.
You can also follow us onsocial media at
(32:25):
facebook.com/members. Firstcooperatives
pinterest.com/members first orinstagram.com/members. First ,
if you have a question or topicyou would like us to consider
for an upcoming episode, emailus at members first , a eci.org
(32:46):
.
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