May 21, 2021 • 25 mins
Whether at home or on vacation, boating, fishing and swimming can be fun ways to enjoy the great outdoors. And safety precautions like life jackets are a given for millions of families who take to the water. But there is an unseen danger that lake-goers everywhere should be aware of. It’s called electric shock drowning, or ESD. Electric Shock Drowning occurs when a person drowns after being electrocuted while swimming in water that is charged with an electrical current.
Learn how to avoid this scary situation by listening to our podcast. Hear from Byron Dudley, Manager of Communication & Member Service and Terry Rosenthal, Manager of Engineering at Laclede Electric Cooperative as they detail what boat and dock owners must do to keep the water safe; and what swimmers need to know to stay safe.
Resources:
Members First - How to Prevent Dock Shock
American Boat & Yacht Council - ESD What you need to know
Safe Electricity - Enjoy Water Recreation Safely
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Robin (00:04):
Hello, my name is Robins and I'm a co-op member. I love
that my co-op is always willingto provide information on how
to stay safe and how to be moreenergy efficient.
Harrison Waters (00:42):
Welcome to The Power For Your Life podcast,
where we focus on energyefficiency, the value of
electric, cooperativemembership, and safety around
electricity. I'm your host,Harrison Waters, and today
we'll be discussing lake andboating safety. You know, when
summer rolls around, boating,fishing and swimming can be fun
ways to enjoy the greatoutdoors and safety precautions
(01:04):
like life jackets are a givenfor millions of families who
take to the water, but there'san unseen danger that lake
goers everywhere should beaware of. It's called Electric
Shock Drowning, or E S dElectric Shock Drowning occurs
when a person drowns afterbeing electrocuted while
swimming in water that'scharged with an electrical
current with me by phone todayto talk about how to stay safe
(01:27):
in the water when boating andswimming is Byron Dudley and
Terry Rosenthal with LaleElectric Cooperative. Guys,
thank you so much for joiningme today.
Byron Dudley (01:36):
Thank you. You bet. Thanks.
Harrison Waters (01:38):
You know, for those who don't know anything
about this topic, maybe explainto us a little bit what is
electric shock drowning and,and what causes it?
Byron Dudley (01:47):
Yeah, sure. Um, so Electric Shock drowning is
ultimately the result ofpassage of low level AC current
through the body. And most ofthe time that has occurred by
faulty electrical wiring on thedock that has leaked into the
water.
Harrison Waters (02:07):
So a follow up to that would be, does it take
a lot of electricity for it tobe dangerous, or how much
electricity has to be in thewater for this to be a concern?
Byron Dudley (02:18):
You know, Harrison, that's a great
question and, and one that weget all the time, and a lot of
people are surprised by theanswers . So one of the things
that for electrocution, the ,the amount of voltage, it
really depends upon thecurrent, through the body and
how long that current exists,however, you know, as little as
10 milliamps. So to put that inperspective, that's one 50th of
(02:43):
the current that's used by a 60white lot bulb can cause
paralysis, which then canresult in drowning. So at 60
milliamps, the body actuallywill go into heart failure,
Harrison Waters (02:58):
And now this is certainly gonna be something
more severe for young ones whenkids are in the water. I'm ,
uh, assuming
Byron Dudley (03:04):
Unfortunately what most of the National
Statistics show is the onesthat are most impacted by
electric shock drowning happento be children, primarily
because they are the onesthat's most often in the water.
So I don't know if we cancorrelate that its age has
(03:26):
anything to do with it, but Ithink it has more to do with
those are the ones that areactually in the water most
frequently.
Harrison Waters (03:34):
So what is the most important thing listeners
need to know about this topicand what can people do to
reduce or prevent electricshock drowning?
Byron Dudley (03:43):
Well, I think the , the most important thing is
that it is something thatunfortunately Harrison happens
more than we would , uh, liketo admit. And with some
preparations , uh, then thosecan certainly be eliminated, if
not definitely reduced from thenumber of of frequency that we
(04:03):
see that occur.
Terry Rosenthal (04:05):
I think one of the most important things is to
make sure that your dock and oryour boats that might be parked
in, in your , uh, dock areinstalled and, and inspected on
a regular basis by, bycertified electricians, and
that they follow the localauthorities requirements for
wiring standards. Um, whichtypically most of them follow
(04:26):
the National Electric Code for,for standard requirements on
how to wire a dock , but theyalso need to check locally to
make sure that, you know, thesta the code is a minimum and a
lot of jurisdictions haveadditional requirements that go
above and beyond the code. Somaking sure that you follow
those local requirements is, isof , of greatest importance.
Harrison Waters (04:45):
And is this something that we need to be
looking at annually? You know,as the, the summer months , uh,
come to us and people areramping back up to get on the
water, is this something thatneeds to be done every year?
Terry Rosenthal (04:57):
Yeah, I think that , uh, our recommendations
have always been that theseoutdoor docks and, and boats
are subject to change over timeand they're exposed to the
weather, especially in thewinter. And, you know, this
past February we had a lot oflakes that froze over and, and
shifted a lot of docks andpossibly caused a lot of dock
damage. So it's always of, ofimportance, especially we
(05:19):
recommend, you know, in thespring before people start
using their docks again, ishave it inspected and make sure
nothing's changed and make sureit's still safe. Test those
GFIs, make sure that they'restill functioning and test that
emergency disconnect that'sthat's out at the , uh, the
boat ramp out to the dock andmake sure it's still working as
well. So those are great thingsthat happen at least annually.
Harrison Waters (05:39):
Now, is there anything that when you're, when
you're approaching this for thefirst time on the year and
you're walking down to yourdock, is there anything that
listeners need to keep in mindso that they don't potentially
step into a dangeroussituation?
Terry Rosenthal (05:52):
We always recommend that , uh, when you
walk out your boat ramp everysingle time, it's good to look
at the wiring, see if you seeany broken joints, look at ,
uh, the junction locations, thereceptacles, make sure that
they look in good workingorder. And, and if you see
anything, certainly have , uh,somebody look at it , a
professional look at it beforeyou start using the doc .
Harrison Waters (06:14):
Byron , any , uh, additional thoughts here?
Byron Dudley (06:17):
No, I think that's, you know, excellent.
Um, a as you do that and, andTerry hit on it, it's, it's one
of those things that justbecause your dock is maybe even
inspected by a professionaltoday, if tonight a strong
storm comes over or it's heavyboat traffic and those type of
things, all of those nationalelements that that dock is
(06:39):
under can cause a problem tohappen that , uh, wasn't
existing yesterday. So everytime you step on that dock to
take a look around and makesure that, that it's the way
that you left it and the waythat it needs to be, is
definitely , uh, an importantstep.
Harrison Waters (06:55):
Yeah, those are great points. And you know,
I want listeners to understandthat this is not saying that
you are having faultyelectrical due to a
professional coming in anddoing it incorrectly. What
you're stating is naturalelements are causing this to
occur, you know, and it's not afaulty human practice. So
that's why we always need to bediligent on checking , uh,
(07:18):
when, when dealing withelectrical near water .
Terry Rosenthal (07:21):
Yes, certainly for, for floating docks, they
have motion , um, all the timeas they are subject to waves
and, and wind and storms . Soin addition to, you know, I
already mentioned, in additionto looking for your, you know ,
junctions and your conduitsthat, that are on the docks,
that they're in good workingorder, but the grounding
bonding jumpers as well aresubject to motion. So those
(07:41):
grounds that as they go fromthe shoreline with the ground
rod that's driven at theshoreline, and then if you have
a pier , you have motions onthe ramp there as well as where
it attaches to the dock. Sothere should be bonding jumpers
there, and it's good to makesure that those are securely
attached and, and haven'tworked their, their way free or
have a bad connection.
Harrison Waters (07:59):
Yeah, that's great to know. Now, is this all
coming from looking at it fromland to going to the dock? What
if you're visiting another dock, then visiting friends from
one dock to another, andyou're, you're coming up to
shore is are there things youshould be looking out at others
just to , to make it safe? And,and at what point could you
tell that, that you might be ina , uh, a situation , uh, where
(08:21):
you might not want a dock?
Terry Rosenthal (08:23):
We're familiar with wiring and, and , and what
it should look like. And soit's difficult to say, you
know, what somebody should belooking for. But I think that
just taking, if you're atsomebody else's dock, making
sure that there is an emergencyset off at the shore and
knowing where it's at beforeyou go out onto that dock, as
well as just a general overviewof what the, what the wiring on
the dock looks like, so you'renot subjecting yourself to any
(08:45):
potential hazards. If they havea ladder on the dock, is it
adequately grounded and bondedto the frame of the dock? You
know, those are easy things tosee if there's a bonding jumper
on the ladder or not. And ifthere's not, may , maybe you
don't wanna have anyrecreational activities at that
dock.
Harrison Waters (08:59):
That's great.
Yeah. What other things aregonna be important for
listeners to understand inregards to this?
Byron Dudley (09:07):
Well, I think one of the things , uh, Harrison,
that that really is, you know,something that, that concerns
us and and should concern the ,the listeners is, you know,
that electric shock drowning,it , it's referred to as the
silent killer. So in a lot ofways, other than those that,
that Terry has alreadymentioned, outside of that,
(09:29):
there's no visible warning or ,or a way to see that there's
electricity that is energizedin the water, or that if you
jump in that , that now that'senergized. And so it's very
important to know thosesurroundings, have those things
checked earlier because it isdifficult to, to see those
(09:49):
warning signs or know if wateris energized where you're
getting into.
Harrison Waters (09:54):
And is there any way of knowing once you are
in the water, say you wereswimming and something did
occur to where that water wasenergized and you were far
enough away, is there, is thereany way of feeling it? Or maybe
explain this a little bit moreto someone who's not familiar
with this at all, if you heardit for the first time, electric
shock drowning, explain likewhy it's a silent killer and
(10:15):
what's taking place.
Byron Dudley (10:17):
Yeah, sure. So really what that is when you're
in the water, a lot of thereports that have come back
from people that did getshocked, fortunately they were
the ones that they're nearmisses, so they didn't get ,
uh, electrocuted and killed bythat. But a lot of times what
they'll do is they will reportthat they're feeling a tingling
(10:39):
sensation while they're,they're in the water. So if ,
certainly if you are in thewater and you feel that
tingling sensation, that shocksensation, then certainly shout
to others and , and , and let'em know , uh, what's going on.
And the , the other key is, isto try to make yourself as
small as possible. And so theyactually say the best way to do
(11:01):
is, is to try to stay upright,because when you get in those
situations, panic since in,and, and your goal is to get
out as quick as possible. And ,and we understand that, but
that actually can create a moresignificant inf uh , injury and
or death. So stay calm, dothat, stay upright, tuck your
(11:24):
legs, make yourself as small aspossible. And then the, the
most important thing is swimaway from where you're feeling
that tingling sensation. So ifyou're at the boat dock or, or
something, swim away from thatand don't go to a neighbor's
dock and, and grab the ladderand get in. The best place to
(11:44):
actually exit, if at allpossible, is the shoreline
where there's nothing metal,there's no conductors , uh, and
those type of things.
Harrison Waters (11:52):
That's great information. And is there any
way of judging how far away isa safe distance or, or anything
when it comes to water? I mean,is there any kind of
measurement that lets you know,okay, you know, is it once the
tingling sensation has goneaway? Or what can we look for
in terms of a distance?
Byron Dudley (12:09):
Unfortunately, Harrison, that that is an
unknown because it depends upona lot of different things. It
depends upon what's theconductive nature of the water,
what's the mineral, you know,how much , uh, is that , uh,
electricity rating app , thevoltage, all of those things
play such an important role inthat. It's very hard to say,
(12:31):
well, at this distance you'resafe or at that distance,
you're safe. Uh, the key is toget as far away as possible
before you do exit. Andcertainly don't touch the water
and anything conductive metal,the , the dock, those type of
things. So best to be safe andget as far away as possible.
Terry Rosenthal (12:51):
I'd like to add a little bit to that, that
the thing that we wanna makesure people understand is that
instinct might be for somebodyon the, on the dock to, to jump
in and help somebody. And thefirst thing that needs to
happen is somebody needs toshut that emergency disconnect
off at the shoreline. And , uh,and it may even be the
neighbor's dock , so it may besomething that, that you need
(13:12):
to shut all of, you know, theneighbor's emergency disconnect
off as well before anybodytries to enter and help
somebody if they can't swimaway on their own.
Harrison Waters (13:21):
Great. That's good information. Well, you
know, let's go ahead and take ashort break and when we come
back we'll discuss more docksafety.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Here's an important swimming safety tip. Make sure
you know what to do if you arein the water and feel
electricity like tingling onthe skin, a sense of being
bitten, pulsating or vibratingwater safe electricity urges.
If you feel a shock, swim awayfrom the dock. Shout to let
others know. Tuck your legs upto make yourself smaller and
(14:04):
swim away from anything thatcould be energized. Go to shore
if you can. Learnmore@safeelectricity.org. New
sources of power that help heatyour homes and keep businesses
thriving up to the minuteknowledge that brings about new
ways of being efficient thatsaves you and your family money
(14:26):
because of you. Touchstoneenergy cooperatives are
constantly seeking newsolutions, great things lie
ahead and what's here today hasnever been better.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
Visit members first dot co-op to learn more energy
efficiency. Tip number 70, turnoff ceiling fans when leaving
the room. Fan school people,not rooms.
Harrison Waters (15:15):
We're back with the Power for Your Life .
Podcast Visiting Day with ByronDudley and Terry Rosenthal from
Lale Electric Cooperative.
We've been discussing lake andboating safety and the topic of
electric shock drowning. We'vetalked about what dock owners
should do to ensure the areaaround their dock is safe and
what you should do to stay safeas a swimmer. Guys, can you
(15:35):
tell me a little now about whatrole does Lale Electric or any
other electric cooperative playin dock safety?
Byron Dudley (15:43):
Well , I think Harrison, it is the key of the
local electric cooperative toeducate the owners and even the
folks that may be coming ontothose docks of the dangers and
encourage them to make surethat dock is wired accordingly.
And it has been regularlyinspected by a professional
(16:04):
electrical contractor. Thoseare really the keys to
hopefully reducing , uh, anyinstance that this might occur.
Terry Rosenthal (16:13):
We, we have responded before to a report of
electric shock on a dock . Wetend to try to make sure that
the member or homeowner knowsthat it passed our point of
demarcation and responsibility.
But, but yes, we have respondedoccasionally, but we don't have
any authority to make them fixsomething that we see.
Byron Dudley (16:34):
I think our biggest role as any electric
co-op is just to educate theowners of the dangers and, and
encourage them time and timeagain to make sure that their
dock is wired properly and isregularly inspected by that
professional. I think reallythat's where our role starts
(16:57):
and ends because as Terry saidhere anyway, most of those dock
, the wiring from the dockusually comes from the house.
So it's past our quote unquoteresponsibility and or legal
ability to do anything about.
Harrison Waters (17:14):
Are there any other things that you come
across at the lake that arecommon concerns aside from
docks?
Terry Rosenthal (17:22):
Most of it's docks. I'm not aware of very
many incidents in a marinawhere the charger has leaked
through the boat itselfnationally, I've heard of that
happening a few times. Most ofit is always been docks around
in our area anyway.
Byron Dudley (17:35):
I mean, really what we find more than anything
else is that one of two thingshave happened. First of all,
they weren't wired properly andset up properly , uh, or two,
they have been, and then overtime something changes that,
but they don't do regularinspections. So that's
(17:57):
primarily the two thatunfortunately most often happen
at Lake the Ozarks. Somethingelse that we probably need to
say is, and this didunfortunately happen, so you
own the house, I rent the housefrom you, I've come down from
another state. Unfortunately,you didn't take care of your
(18:22):
dock. And so my children wereelectrocuted. We actually have
had a couple of instances , uh,where that has occurred.
Terry Rosenthal (18:30):
Yeah, well, we covered that a little bit. I
think earlier when we talkedabout visiting somebody's dock
, it'd be a similar situationthat you're on somebody else's
dock that's not yours, andmaking sure you know where that
emergency cutoff is located andthat you've done some kind of,
you know, visual inspectionbefore you decide to start
using that dock .
Harrison Waters (18:50):
Well, so let me ask you this. If you're less
familiar with a dock you're onor you're visiting others while
on docks and your childnotifies you that they have a
tingly sensation and you're ,you're concerned or worried
that there could be that issue,does turning off the emergency
power supply , does that getrid of this chance or does that
(19:11):
immediately mean you can getyour kid outta the water?
Terry Rosenthal (19:13):
Well, we would hope so. I mean, it's better,
but I mean, it could be theneighbor's dock that it's
leaking from. So that's why Imentioned you may even need to
shut the neighbors shut off,off before you can get 'em out.
And again, like Byron said , ifthey can swim away, you know,
if they haven't gotten enoughcurrent leakage current to
prevent them from swimmingwhere they've gone under or
(19:33):
something, then then I wouldsay swim to the other shoreline
and get out and walk aroundrather than take a chance. If
it was me and it was my childand they had gotten enough
leakage current that they gununder, as soon as I knew that
emergency disconnect was shutoff, I'd go in after 'em, but I
wouldn't go in until thatshutoff was off. And we've seen
that with some of the ESDs,like the Ozarks where somebody
(19:54):
got in trouble, a kid orsomebody got in trouble and the
parent immediately wants tojump in after 'em . And I just,
you know, that, that all thatcan do a lot of times is make,
you know, two victims insteadof one.
Harrison Waters (20:05):
I've heard about devices that you can buy
that detect electrical currentin the water. Um, what can you
guys tell me about thesedevices about using them? They
Terry Rosenthal (20:16):
Only sense in the area where the probes
installed and I've seen 'eminstalled and then they get
algae on 'em and, you know,they don't get the probe
cleaned off. My personalopinion, I would much rather
see a dock that's regularlyinspected has good grounds to
it, the ground rod at the, atthe shorelines installed, and
those GFIs are tested on aregular basis rather than put
(20:39):
some appliance up. That makesme feel like I'm being
protected, but that's just myopinion. I don't particularly
recommend them to my friendsthat have docks at the lake, I
recommend that they get aregular inspection and a
regular test of their GFIs wayahead of buying an appliance
that's looking for voltage onlyin that general area where the
probe's installed
Byron Dudley (21:00):
It , it can give a false sense of security
because if the other stuffisn't done and that's not
working properly, then you haveput yourself unfortunately in a
situation that that deviceisn't gonna help you out.
Terry Rosenthal (21:17):
I guess if we wanted to say anything about it
, Byron, my thoughts would be,you know, if you're doing all
of these other things, ifyou're doing the annual
inspections and you've got theshutoff at the shoreline,
you've got a good ground roddriven , all your bonds are in
in order. If you want to add anextra layer of detection
ability, then by all means goabove and beyond and maybe look
(21:37):
into one of those devices. Butif you're looking to not have
to do the annual inspectionsand pay an electrician to come
out, if you're looking to nothave to have somebody test your
GFIs, then I say, this devicewill not work if you're not
doing the other thingsunderlying that are required.
Harrison Waters (21:53):
Now to recap, should families be concerned
with anyone swimming around amarina? Is that a concern that
they should have?
Terry Rosenthal (22:01):
I think , uh, certainly swimming around a
marina that has a lot of boatsparked at it, two aspects
there. One, there's likely tobe a lot of boat traffic,
people coming and going andthey may not see you in the
water. So that's of concern.
And the second is there'susually a lot of electrical
devices and circuits on thoselarger docks, and so therefore
(22:23):
a lot of these marinas don'teven allow swimming around it.
So certainly as a minimumprecaution, I would verify
whether that marina allowsswimming and is it in a
designated area or is it notallowed at all before you enter
water around a a dense boatdocking facility like that.
Harrison Waters (22:41):
Is there anything else that either of
you would like to add or tellus about today to maybe educate
listeners before they head outto the water this summer? You
Byron Dudley (22:49):
Know, Harrison , we've been talking about docks
specifically, but I think it'sa great time to add in their
swimming pools, hot tubs, thosetype of things because we're
seeing more and more of thoseon our system. And so one of
the things that we wanna makesure that folks recognize is
(23:09):
all of those electrical thingsthat we've talked about with
the docks are certainlyadequate. It needs to be
installed by a professional, itneeds to be safe and all of
that. The other real big thingthat we're, we're seeing more
and more is the location ofthose pools and hot tubs, make
sure that they're not placed byelectrical power lines. We're
(23:33):
seeing more and more folks thatunfortunately are locating
those two close to the powerlines and, and you have to
think that you can be usinglong cleaning tools, long metal
rods that you're cleaning thebottom of your pool and, and ,
uh, if you're too close , uh,certainly you can come into
contact for power lines . So ,uh, folks need to, to also, you
(23:56):
know, be cautious about hottubs and swimming pool
placement as well.
Harrison Waters (24:00):
Great. That's great information. And if
there's a member that's lookingfor any other additional
information, what's the best ,uh, resource for them?
Byron Dudley (24:08):
Yeah, we would always encourage them. Any
questions or or concerns reachout to your local electric
cooperative . Uh , they'regonna have folks there that
will be able to answer thosequestions and, and help with
those type of things to, tomake sure that everything's
done to, you know, mitigatethese type of , uh, risk.
Harrison Waters (24:26):
Well, I think that you both did a fantastic
job in helping us educatemembers on dock safety or water
electrical safety and really tomake sure that you, before you
get out and enjoy that summervacation at the water, to have
a professional come and checkand inspect your docs and
knowing the proper precautionsin order to get into that water
(24:46):
and have a good time. So Ithank you both for joining me
today. Thank
Byron Dudley (24:50):
You. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Thanks for listening to The Power for Your Life
Podcast. To learn more aboutthis topic and other safety
efficiency and energytechnology information, contact
your local electric cooperativeor visit us on the web at
members first dot co-op. Youcan also follow us on social
media at facebook.com/membersfirst cooperatives
pinterest.com/members first orinstagram.com/members. First ,
(25:13):
if you have a question or topicyou'd like us to consider for a
future episode, emailus@membersfirstaeci.org.
Hello, my name is Robins and I'm a co-op member. I love
that my co-op is always willingto provide information on how
to stay safe and how to be moreenergy efficient.
Harrison Waters (00:42):
Welcome to The Power For Your Life podcast,
where we focus on energyefficiency, the value of
electric, cooperativemembership, and safety around
electricity. I'm your host,Harrison Waters, and today
we'll be discussing lake andboating safety. You know, when
summer rolls around, boating,fishing and swimming can be fun
ways to enjoy the greatoutdoors and safety precautions
(01:04):
like life jackets are a givenfor millions of families who
take to the water, but there'san unseen danger that lake
goers everywhere should beaware of. It's called Electric
Shock Drowning, or E S dElectric Shock Drowning occurs
when a person drowns afterbeing electrocuted while
swimming in water that'scharged with an electrical
current with me by phone todayto talk about how to stay safe
(01:27):
in the water when boating andswimming is Byron Dudley and
Terry Rosenthal with LaleElectric Cooperative. Guys,
thank you so much for joiningme today.
Byron Dudley (01:36):
Thank you. You bet. Thanks.
Harrison Waters (01:38):
You know, for those who don't know anything
about this topic, maybe explainto us a little bit what is
electric shock drowning and,and what causes it?
Byron Dudley (01:47):
Yeah, sure. Um, so Electric Shock drowning is
ultimately the result ofpassage of low level AC current
through the body. And most ofthe time that has occurred by
faulty electrical wiring on thedock that has leaked into the
water.
Harrison Waters (02:07):
So a follow up to that would be, does it take
a lot of electricity for it tobe dangerous, or how much
electricity has to be in thewater for this to be a concern?
Byron Dudley (02:18):
You know, Harrison, that's a great
question and, and one that weget all the time, and a lot of
people are surprised by theanswers . So one of the things
that for electrocution, the ,the amount of voltage, it
really depends upon thecurrent, through the body and
how long that current exists,however, you know, as little as
10 milliamps. So to put that inperspective, that's one 50th of
(02:43):
the current that's used by a 60white lot bulb can cause
paralysis, which then canresult in drowning. So at 60
milliamps, the body actuallywill go into heart failure,
Harrison Waters (02:58):
And now this is certainly gonna be something
more severe for young ones whenkids are in the water. I'm ,
uh, assuming
Byron Dudley (03:04):
Unfortunately what most of the National
Statistics show is the onesthat are most impacted by
electric shock drowning happento be children, primarily
because they are the onesthat's most often in the water.
So I don't know if we cancorrelate that its age has
(03:26):
anything to do with it, but Ithink it has more to do with
those are the ones that areactually in the water most
frequently.
Harrison Waters (03:34):
So what is the most important thing listeners
need to know about this topicand what can people do to
reduce or prevent electricshock drowning?
Byron Dudley (03:43):
Well, I think the , the most important thing is
that it is something thatunfortunately Harrison happens
more than we would , uh, liketo admit. And with some
preparations , uh, then thosecan certainly be eliminated, if
not definitely reduced from thenumber of of frequency that we
(04:03):
see that occur.
Terry Rosenthal (04:05):
I think one of the most important things is to
make sure that your dock and oryour boats that might be parked
in, in your , uh, dock areinstalled and, and inspected on
a regular basis by, bycertified electricians, and
that they follow the localauthorities requirements for
wiring standards. Um, whichtypically most of them follow
(04:26):
the National Electric Code for,for standard requirements on
how to wire a dock , but theyalso need to check locally to
make sure that, you know, thesta the code is a minimum and a
lot of jurisdictions haveadditional requirements that go
above and beyond the code. Somaking sure that you follow
those local requirements is, isof , of greatest importance.
Harrison Waters (04:45):
And is this something that we need to be
looking at annually? You know,as the, the summer months , uh,
come to us and people areramping back up to get on the
water, is this something thatneeds to be done every year?
Terry Rosenthal (04:57):
Yeah, I think that , uh, our recommendations
have always been that theseoutdoor docks and, and boats
are subject to change over timeand they're exposed to the
weather, especially in thewinter. And, you know, this
past February we had a lot oflakes that froze over and, and
shifted a lot of docks andpossibly caused a lot of dock
damage. So it's always of, ofimportance, especially we
(05:19):
recommend, you know, in thespring before people start
using their docks again, ishave it inspected and make sure
nothing's changed and make sureit's still safe. Test those
GFIs, make sure that they'restill functioning and test that
emergency disconnect that'sthat's out at the , uh, the
boat ramp out to the dock andmake sure it's still working as
well. So those are great thingsthat happen at least annually.
Harrison Waters (05:39):
Now, is there anything that when you're, when
you're approaching this for thefirst time on the year and
you're walking down to yourdock, is there anything that
listeners need to keep in mindso that they don't potentially
step into a dangeroussituation?
Terry Rosenthal (05:52):
We always recommend that , uh, when you
walk out your boat ramp everysingle time, it's good to look
at the wiring, see if you seeany broken joints, look at ,
uh, the junction locations, thereceptacles, make sure that
they look in good workingorder. And, and if you see
anything, certainly have , uh,somebody look at it , a
professional look at it beforeyou start using the doc .
Harrison Waters (06:14):
Byron , any , uh, additional thoughts here?
Byron Dudley (06:17):
No, I think that's, you know, excellent.
Um, a as you do that and, andTerry hit on it, it's, it's one
of those things that justbecause your dock is maybe even
inspected by a professionaltoday, if tonight a strong
storm comes over or it's heavyboat traffic and those type of
things, all of those nationalelements that that dock is
(06:39):
under can cause a problem tohappen that , uh, wasn't
existing yesterday. So everytime you step on that dock to
take a look around and makesure that, that it's the way
that you left it and the waythat it needs to be, is
definitely , uh, an importantstep.
Harrison Waters (06:55):
Yeah, those are great points. And you know,
I want listeners to understandthat this is not saying that
you are having faultyelectrical due to a
professional coming in anddoing it incorrectly. What
you're stating is naturalelements are causing this to
occur, you know, and it's not afaulty human practice. So
that's why we always need to bediligent on checking , uh,
(07:18):
when, when dealing withelectrical near water .
Terry Rosenthal (07:21):
Yes, certainly for, for floating docks, they
have motion , um, all the timeas they are subject to waves
and, and wind and storms . Soin addition to, you know, I
already mentioned, in additionto looking for your, you know ,
junctions and your conduitsthat, that are on the docks,
that they're in good workingorder, but the grounding
bonding jumpers as well aresubject to motion. So those
(07:41):
grounds that as they go fromthe shoreline with the ground
rod that's driven at theshoreline, and then if you have
a pier , you have motions onthe ramp there as well as where
it attaches to the dock. Sothere should be bonding jumpers
there, and it's good to makesure that those are securely
attached and, and haven'tworked their, their way free or
have a bad connection.
Harrison Waters (07:59):
Yeah, that's great to know. Now, is this all
coming from looking at it fromland to going to the dock? What
if you're visiting another dock, then visiting friends from
one dock to another, andyou're, you're coming up to
shore is are there things youshould be looking out at others
just to , to make it safe? And,and at what point could you
tell that, that you might be ina , uh, a situation , uh, where
(08:21):
you might not want a dock?
Terry Rosenthal (08:23):
We're familiar with wiring and, and , and what
it should look like. And soit's difficult to say, you
know, what somebody should belooking for. But I think that
just taking, if you're atsomebody else's dock, making
sure that there is an emergencyset off at the shore and
knowing where it's at beforeyou go out onto that dock, as
well as just a general overviewof what the, what the wiring on
the dock looks like, so you'renot subjecting yourself to any
(08:45):
potential hazards. If they havea ladder on the dock, is it
adequately grounded and bondedto the frame of the dock? You
know, those are easy things tosee if there's a bonding jumper
on the ladder or not. And ifthere's not, may , maybe you
don't wanna have anyrecreational activities at that
dock.
Harrison Waters (08:59):
That's great.
Yeah. What other things aregonna be important for
listeners to understand inregards to this?
Byron Dudley (09:07):
Well, I think one of the things , uh, Harrison,
that that really is, you know,something that, that concerns
us and and should concern the ,the listeners is, you know,
that electric shock drowning,it , it's referred to as the
silent killer. So in a lot ofways, other than those that,
that Terry has alreadymentioned, outside of that,
(09:29):
there's no visible warning or ,or a way to see that there's
electricity that is energizedin the water, or that if you
jump in that , that now that'senergized. And so it's very
important to know thosesurroundings, have those things
checked earlier because it isdifficult to, to see those
(09:49):
warning signs or know if wateris energized where you're
getting into.
Harrison Waters (09:54):
And is there any way of knowing once you are
in the water, say you wereswimming and something did
occur to where that water wasenergized and you were far
enough away, is there, is thereany way of feeling it? Or maybe
explain this a little bit moreto someone who's not familiar
with this at all, if you heardit for the first time, electric
shock drowning, explain likewhy it's a silent killer and
(10:15):
what's taking place.
Byron Dudley (10:17):
Yeah, sure. So really what that is when you're
in the water, a lot of thereports that have come back
from people that did getshocked, fortunately they were
the ones that they're nearmisses, so they didn't get ,
uh, electrocuted and killed bythat. But a lot of times what
they'll do is they will reportthat they're feeling a tingling
(10:39):
sensation while they're,they're in the water. So if ,
certainly if you are in thewater and you feel that
tingling sensation, that shocksensation, then certainly shout
to others and , and , and let'em know , uh, what's going on.
And the , the other key is, isto try to make yourself as
small as possible. And so theyactually say the best way to do
(11:01):
is, is to try to stay upright,because when you get in those
situations, panic since in,and, and your goal is to get
out as quick as possible. And ,and we understand that, but
that actually can create a moresignificant inf uh , injury and
or death. So stay calm, dothat, stay upright, tuck your
(11:24):
legs, make yourself as small aspossible. And then the, the
most important thing is swimaway from where you're feeling
that tingling sensation. So ifyou're at the boat dock or, or
something, swim away from thatand don't go to a neighbor's
dock and, and grab the ladderand get in. The best place to
(11:44):
actually exit, if at allpossible, is the shoreline
where there's nothing metal,there's no conductors , uh, and
those type of things.
Harrison Waters (11:52):
That's great information. And is there any
way of judging how far away isa safe distance or, or anything
when it comes to water? I mean,is there any kind of
measurement that lets you know,okay, you know, is it once the
tingling sensation has goneaway? Or what can we look for
in terms of a distance?
Byron Dudley (12:09):
Unfortunately, Harrison, that that is an
unknown because it depends upona lot of different things. It
depends upon what's theconductive nature of the water,
what's the mineral, you know,how much , uh, is that , uh,
electricity rating app , thevoltage, all of those things
play such an important role inthat. It's very hard to say,
(12:31):
well, at this distance you'resafe or at that distance,
you're safe. Uh, the key is toget as far away as possible
before you do exit. Andcertainly don't touch the water
and anything conductive metal,the , the dock, those type of
things. So best to be safe andget as far away as possible.
Terry Rosenthal (12:51):
I'd like to add a little bit to that, that
the thing that we wanna makesure people understand is that
instinct might be for somebodyon the, on the dock to, to jump
in and help somebody. And thefirst thing that needs to
happen is somebody needs toshut that emergency disconnect
off at the shoreline. And , uh,and it may even be the
neighbor's dock , so it may besomething that, that you need
(13:12):
to shut all of, you know, theneighbor's emergency disconnect
off as well before anybodytries to enter and help
somebody if they can't swimaway on their own.
Harrison Waters (13:21):
Great. That's good information. Well, you
know, let's go ahead and take ashort break and when we come
back we'll discuss more docksafety.
Speaker 5 (13:42):
Here's an important swimming safety tip. Make sure
you know what to do if you arein the water and feel
electricity like tingling onthe skin, a sense of being
bitten, pulsating or vibratingwater safe electricity urges.
If you feel a shock, swim awayfrom the dock. Shout to let
others know. Tuck your legs upto make yourself smaller and
(14:04):
swim away from anything thatcould be energized. Go to shore
if you can. Learnmore@safeelectricity.org. New
sources of power that help heatyour homes and keep businesses
thriving up to the minuteknowledge that brings about new
ways of being efficient thatsaves you and your family money
(14:26):
because of you. Touchstoneenergy cooperatives are
constantly seeking newsolutions, great things lie
ahead and what's here today hasnever been better.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
Visit members first dot co-op to learn more energy
efficiency. Tip number 70, turnoff ceiling fans when leaving
the room. Fan school people,not rooms.
Harrison Waters (15:15):
We're back with the Power for Your Life .
Podcast Visiting Day with ByronDudley and Terry Rosenthal from
Lale Electric Cooperative.
We've been discussing lake andboating safety and the topic of
electric shock drowning. We'vetalked about what dock owners
should do to ensure the areaaround their dock is safe and
what you should do to stay safeas a swimmer. Guys, can you
(15:35):
tell me a little now about whatrole does Lale Electric or any
other electric cooperative playin dock safety?
Byron Dudley (15:43):
Well , I think Harrison, it is the key of the
local electric cooperative toeducate the owners and even the
folks that may be coming ontothose docks of the dangers and
encourage them to make surethat dock is wired accordingly.
And it has been regularlyinspected by a professional
(16:04):
electrical contractor. Thoseare really the keys to
hopefully reducing , uh, anyinstance that this might occur.
Terry Rosenthal (16:13):
We, we have responded before to a report of
electric shock on a dock . Wetend to try to make sure that
the member or homeowner knowsthat it passed our point of
demarcation and responsibility.
But, but yes, we have respondedoccasionally, but we don't have
any authority to make them fixsomething that we see.
Byron Dudley (16:34):
I think our biggest role as any electric
co-op is just to educate theowners of the dangers and, and
encourage them time and timeagain to make sure that their
dock is wired properly and isregularly inspected by that
professional. I think reallythat's where our role starts
(16:57):
and ends because as Terry saidhere anyway, most of those dock
, the wiring from the dockusually comes from the house.
So it's past our quote unquoteresponsibility and or legal
ability to do anything about.
Harrison Waters (17:14):
Are there any other things that you come
across at the lake that arecommon concerns aside from
docks?
Terry Rosenthal (17:22):
Most of it's docks. I'm not aware of very
many incidents in a marinawhere the charger has leaked
through the boat itselfnationally, I've heard of that
happening a few times. Most ofit is always been docks around
in our area anyway.
Byron Dudley (17:35):
I mean, really what we find more than anything
else is that one of two thingshave happened. First of all,
they weren't wired properly andset up properly , uh, or two,
they have been, and then overtime something changes that,
but they don't do regularinspections. So that's
(17:57):
primarily the two thatunfortunately most often happen
at Lake the Ozarks. Somethingelse that we probably need to
say is, and this didunfortunately happen, so you
own the house, I rent the housefrom you, I've come down from
another state. Unfortunately,you didn't take care of your
(18:22):
dock. And so my children wereelectrocuted. We actually have
had a couple of instances , uh,where that has occurred.
Terry Rosenthal (18:30):
Yeah, well, we covered that a little bit. I
think earlier when we talkedabout visiting somebody's dock
, it'd be a similar situationthat you're on somebody else's
dock that's not yours, andmaking sure you know where that
emergency cutoff is located andthat you've done some kind of,
you know, visual inspectionbefore you decide to start
using that dock .
Harrison Waters (18:50):
Well, so let me ask you this. If you're less
familiar with a dock you're onor you're visiting others while
on docks and your childnotifies you that they have a
tingly sensation and you're ,you're concerned or worried
that there could be that issue,does turning off the emergency
power supply , does that getrid of this chance or does that
(19:11):
immediately mean you can getyour kid outta the water?
Terry Rosenthal (19:13):
Well, we would hope so. I mean, it's better,
but I mean, it could be theneighbor's dock that it's
leaking from. So that's why Imentioned you may even need to
shut the neighbors shut off,off before you can get 'em out.
And again, like Byron said , ifthey can swim away, you know,
if they haven't gotten enoughcurrent leakage current to
prevent them from swimmingwhere they've gone under or
(19:33):
something, then then I wouldsay swim to the other shoreline
and get out and walk aroundrather than take a chance. If
it was me and it was my childand they had gotten enough
leakage current that they gununder, as soon as I knew that
emergency disconnect was shutoff, I'd go in after 'em, but I
wouldn't go in until thatshutoff was off. And we've seen
that with some of the ESDs,like the Ozarks where somebody
(19:54):
got in trouble, a kid orsomebody got in trouble and the
parent immediately wants tojump in after 'em . And I just,
you know, that, that all thatcan do a lot of times is make,
you know, two victims insteadof one.
Harrison Waters (20:05):
I've heard about devices that you can buy
that detect electrical currentin the water. Um, what can you
guys tell me about thesedevices about using them? They
Terry Rosenthal (20:16):
Only sense in the area where the probes
installed and I've seen 'eminstalled and then they get
algae on 'em and, you know,they don't get the probe
cleaned off. My personalopinion, I would much rather
see a dock that's regularlyinspected has good grounds to
it, the ground rod at the, atthe shorelines installed, and
those GFIs are tested on aregular basis rather than put
(20:39):
some appliance up. That makesme feel like I'm being
protected, but that's just myopinion. I don't particularly
recommend them to my friendsthat have docks at the lake, I
recommend that they get aregular inspection and a
regular test of their GFIs wayahead of buying an appliance
that's looking for voltage onlyin that general area where the
probe's installed
Byron Dudley (21:00):
It , it can give a false sense of security
because if the other stuffisn't done and that's not
working properly, then you haveput yourself unfortunately in a
situation that that deviceisn't gonna help you out.
Terry Rosenthal (21:17):
I guess if we wanted to say anything about it
, Byron, my thoughts would be,you know, if you're doing all
of these other things, ifyou're doing the annual
inspections and you've got theshutoff at the shoreline,
you've got a good ground roddriven , all your bonds are in
in order. If you want to add anextra layer of detection
ability, then by all means goabove and beyond and maybe look
(21:37):
into one of those devices. Butif you're looking to not have
to do the annual inspectionsand pay an electrician to come
out, if you're looking to nothave to have somebody test your
GFIs, then I say, this devicewill not work if you're not
doing the other thingsunderlying that are required.
Harrison Waters (21:53):
Now to recap, should families be concerned
with anyone swimming around amarina? Is that a concern that
they should have?
Terry Rosenthal (22:01):
I think , uh, certainly swimming around a
marina that has a lot of boatsparked at it, two aspects
there. One, there's likely tobe a lot of boat traffic,
people coming and going andthey may not see you in the
water. So that's of concern.
And the second is there'susually a lot of electrical
devices and circuits on thoselarger docks, and so therefore
(22:23):
a lot of these marinas don'teven allow swimming around it.
So certainly as a minimumprecaution, I would verify
whether that marina allowsswimming and is it in a
designated area or is it notallowed at all before you enter
water around a a dense boatdocking facility like that.
Harrison Waters (22:41):
Is there anything else that either of
you would like to add or tellus about today to maybe educate
listeners before they head outto the water this summer? You
Byron Dudley (22:49):
Know, Harrison , we've been talking about docks
specifically, but I think it'sa great time to add in their
swimming pools, hot tubs, thosetype of things because we're
seeing more and more of thoseon our system. And so one of
the things that we wanna makesure that folks recognize is
(23:09):
all of those electrical thingsthat we've talked about with
the docks are certainlyadequate. It needs to be
installed by a professional, itneeds to be safe and all of
that. The other real big thingthat we're, we're seeing more
and more is the location ofthose pools and hot tubs, make
sure that they're not placed byelectrical power lines. We're
(23:33):
seeing more and more folks thatunfortunately are locating
those two close to the powerlines and, and you have to
think that you can be usinglong cleaning tools, long metal
rods that you're cleaning thebottom of your pool and, and ,
uh, if you're too close , uh,certainly you can come into
contact for power lines . So ,uh, folks need to, to also, you
(23:56):
know, be cautious about hottubs and swimming pool
placement as well.
Harrison Waters (24:00):
Great. That's great information. And if
there's a member that's lookingfor any other additional
information, what's the best ,uh, resource for them?
Byron Dudley (24:08):
Yeah, we would always encourage them. Any
questions or or concerns reachout to your local electric
cooperative . Uh , they'regonna have folks there that
will be able to answer thosequestions and, and help with
those type of things to, tomake sure that everything's
done to, you know, mitigatethese type of , uh, risk.
Harrison Waters (24:26):
Well, I think that you both did a fantastic
job in helping us educatemembers on dock safety or water
electrical safety and really tomake sure that you, before you
get out and enjoy that summervacation at the water, to have
a professional come and checkand inspect your docs and
knowing the proper precautionsin order to get into that water
(24:46):
and have a good time. So Ithank you both for joining me
today. Thank
Byron Dudley (24:50):
You. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 6 (24:52):
Thanks for listening to The Power for Your Life
Podcast. To learn more aboutthis topic and other safety
efficiency and energytechnology information, contact
your local electric cooperativeor visit us on the web at
members first dot co-op. Youcan also follow us on social
media at facebook.com/membersfirst cooperatives
pinterest.com/members first orinstagram.com/members. First ,
(25:13):
if you have a question or topicyou'd like us to consider for a
future episode, emailus@membersfirstaeci.org.
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