When Jessica Kupferman steps up to the mic, you know you're in for a blend of wit and wisdom that can only come from a true pioneer in the podcasting world. This episode is a celebration of her indelible mark on the industry, particularly when it comes to amplifying women's voices and providing a bullhorn for independent podcasters. We traverse Jessica's storied journey, from the spark that ignited female-centric podcasting communities to her role in nurturing a space where women's unique experiences in the medium are not just heard but cherished.
With laughter and community spirit, we spotlight Jessica's ingenious blend of technology expertise and comedic flair. Her forthcoming ventures with She Podcasts are a testament to her relentless hustle and the joy she brings to the podcasting universe. As you listen, prepare to be inspired by Jessica's dedication to building networks through humor and a solid work ethic that has reshaped the podcasting landscape.
THAT has made her a Power Mom!! Listen in…
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Host and Executive Producer: Producer Jaime ("Jemmy") Legagneur | Email Me! Jaime@FlintStoneMedia.com | Follow on Instagram: @FlintStoneMedia
Guest Power Mom: Jessica Kupferman of She Podcasts
More About Jessica: Marketing and sales expert with a history of being both the devil's advocate and the first person to give someone the benefit of the doubt.
Follow Jessica: Instagram (@JessKupferman) | Instagram (@ShePodcasts)
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Copyright of
before it even gets started.
First of all, because she and Imy guests today have known each
other for so long and so welland we're both so open that we
both admitted that we're sohappy we actually showered today
, because as moms, sometimesthey don't happen.
So welcome to the show Shower,jessica Kupferman.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Thank you.
Yes, you'll never see her again.
It's good.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
How are you?
Was that the best intro?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
ever.
Yes, thank you, she's filthyWelcome.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
So she gets fouled
mouth during this interview.
Maybe that extends, but, jessica, so glad to have you Thank you,
so I want to frame this alittle bit for for the, the
people who are listening,because you know, this is a huge
moment and I'm in the midst ofwe've been launching the Power
Moms Network.
So, first of all, I just wantto say officially that Jessica
is part of the Power MomsNetwork advisory board and we're
(00:57):
so excited to have you becauseyou are I don't know if I've
said this to you, I don't thinkI have you are one of the bases
of inspiration for all of this.
You know, I had this kind ofthought in my mind.
I couldn't kind of crystallizeas to what I wanted to do, but
I've won.
I've been driven to help women,to help mothers, and you're one
of the people who I've beenwatching how you've been doing
(01:18):
it.
Yeah, thank you, of course, ofcourse, but more to the for
better, for worse, I'm sure, forbetter for better.
But here's more to the point.
It's not just that I've beenwatching you.
You have this gift of makingpeople feel seen, and you've
made me feel seen.
So, in 2017, when I first metyou, you gave I know you call it
(01:40):
a superlative, I don't care yougave me my first ever award.
I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I don't want to deny
it was an award.
It was just that, I don't know,at the time elsie had a thing
about like having officialawards, because she didn't want
anyone to feel like that,because it was awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Let me tell you I
felt yeah so seen and it was um,
it was a learning moment for meto to say I want to create that
for other people at some pointdown the line in my life yeah,
oh my god, absolutely.
And then again, because Ireally want people to understand
why I'm this is I'm so happy tohave you again at podcast
movement.
(02:18):
I first saw you at podcastmovement and it was when I was
first getting the idea going forFlorida Podcast Network and you
sat down with me and you gaveme I don't even know like at
least a good half hour, a goodchunk of your time, and you
talked to me about buildingcommunity, about sponsorships,
about all those things, and itwas like my own little
(02:39):
personalized mini masterclass.
So, yes, I don't even remember.
Thank you, jessica, for being ahuge inspiration for why power
bobs even exists.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
And now that's the
end of the interview.
We're done.
That's so nice.
I mean, we've had so many niceconversations.
I may have given you amasterclass without even
realizing like to me it was justus.
I know, I know because that'swho you are.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
You just, you're
constantly giving Thank you and
I love that.
If I were to boil it down, Ithink it's bringing women
together into community, butalso, more to the point, it's
it's being an advocate forindependent voices, I think for
(03:23):
as long as I've known you.
So when I was I don't know whyI did like probably I'll admit
it clearly that I did likelittle prep for this, because
there's so much I already knewfrom the heart I wanted to talk
to you about, but I did.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I used to do no prep
for my interviews whatsoever,
because I like it better whenyou, when it's organic anyway.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
But I went to the
website and I saw something that
made me bust out laughingbecause I was like, oh my god
you talked about.
You started your businesspodcast because at the time
there a lot of uh well, I get aquote young white dudes
interviewing other young whitedudes yeah, it's all there was,
(04:02):
and they were just like having alittle, I mean yes, you can.
I know exactly, I know that.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
They were having a
little circle jerk with each
other.
That's all it was, and it wasreally frustrating because I
really wanted to grow and ifthey weren't going to help me
then I was going to have to doit myself, which you know just
another day, just another day.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So that's oftentimes
how women feel we're like we
kind of feel left out and thatwe have to do it ourselves and
then we have to help each other.
So so what have you seen that'schanged in the industry in that
regard?
And what have you seen thathasn't changed in the industry
in that regard of?
Is there still?
Is it still just a big circlejerk?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I mean I actually
wouldn't.
I mean I don't know if Iwouldn't know or if I stopped
noticing, because I stopped soonafter that, when I realized
that those people were nothelpful and or weren't going to
help me, I sort of stoppedpaying attention.
Lot of them still have likepodcasts, but like, the people
(05:03):
that I was referring to therespecifically was like john lee
dumas um derrick, what's hisname?
Amy porterfield um what thehell is his name?
Darren, something darren, Idon't know.
Um lewis howes, at the timedemon simon garland, like, and
first I tried getting on theirshows.
That clearly wasn't happening.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
They were mostly
interviewing men, so frustrating
do you know how many timespeople asked to interview glenn
about starting florida podcastnetwork?
I'm like I owed it.
It was, but but I hello sorry,go ahead.
I know, I just had a flashback.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
It's frustrating.
I'll tell you something else.
I just put scott on my, like he.
He just got on my either on mywebsite or somewhere where he's
listed his staff and now all themoney, like here let me give
you money, it all goes to himnow which I'm like disgusting.
I believe it disgusting anywaymeanwhile, if they only knew
what a disaster that wouldactually be.
(05:55):
He, he starts sweating at thethought of money much less.
He's like just oh, but anyway,yeah, so.
So I so first I tried gettingon their shows, then I tried
doing masterminds and stuff, sothat I could get to know them as
a student, and then maybe theywould put me on their show like,
(06:16):
please, please, can I, can I beincluded?
yeah, I mean, it worked a littlebit it worked a little bit, but
not I mean.
But it turned out that most ofthe masterminds I was taking I
could have taught better,specifically lewis and david,
like I was just like, oh my god,correcting them as they were
speaking.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
There's so many times
when I'm in the audience I
would be doing.
I could get up there and do abetter job yeah, this is not
right.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So, um, after that I just sortof stopped, but I will say that
at the time there were so manyshows that weren't, or that were
just about entrepreneurship, itjust all.
The first boom pre-serial wasentrepreneurship.
Every entrepreneur and theirmother had a podcast that was
(07:02):
telling you how to run yourbusiness.
And then serial came in, Iguess, 2014.
No, 2015.
It was after I had my littleone.
And then, as soon as thathappened, true crime exploded
Health and fitness, you know.
Right around then NPR put everyshow they've ever thought of
online.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is agreat move, you know, and every
(07:23):
newspaper, I mean yeah, they'veever thought of online, yeah,
yeah and um, you know.
And every newspaper, I meanyeah, but I mean.
So I think what's changed isjust that the, the platform,
doesn't just belong to contentcreators or original content
creators anymore, and I don'tthink that's a bad thing, you
know, because it's sowell-rounded, like now it's sort
of like you can think upanything in your in your pretty
(07:46):
head, and it will.
There will be a podcast for it,which is cool.
May not be a good podcast, butthere's got to be one out there
for everything but?
Speaker 1 (07:55):
but you're right, I
think.
I think the nature of thisspace podcasting specifically
because there's microphonesinvolved, there's like almost no
barrier to entry anymore andyou know you can just basically
have your phone and there youcan podcast.
There's microphones involved,there's like almost no barrier
to entry anymore and you knowyou can just basically have your
phone and there you can podcast.
There's no one stopping youanymore, there's no FCC
regulations, like it's not likethat.
So I think this space is veryfertile for allowing voices that
(08:18):
normally wouldn't be able torise above to be able to rise
above, rise above, to be able torise above.
And so that's why, part part,what I've appreciated so much
about you you capturing this inthis industry for women, because
it's not just about amplifyingyour own voice, it's also about
giving a platform for women toamplify theirs.
So you started that.
The women who podcast group.
(08:38):
Okay, just to say, hey, listen,there are women who podcast.
Hello, like, we're here too.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, rather than be
putting words in your mouth.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
What was, what was
your impetus for starting that,
that group, that community?
Speaker 2 (08:52):
I mean, I actually
did start it and called it women
who podcast, because there wasno Facebook group named that.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
if you can even
believe that, I completely
believe you at that at that time.
I completely believe why youcalled it Simply Women Podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Because that's who I
wanted to talk to pretty much
and that's all I want.
Yeah, so I was at a conference,the New Media Expo, which I
believe ended up turning intoBlog World, or had used no, it
had used to be Blog World, andthen it was New Media Expo.
So lots of bloggers, lots ofentrepreneurs, and my flight was
late.
It was in january.
I was supposed to be going tovegas, my flight was delayed and
canceled twice, and then I sawthat elsie was hopping a flight
(09:35):
to vegas to go love her.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Elsie escobar of
lipsons the feed, yep yeah, and
she podcasts, yeah yeah, that'sright.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
And she had a layover
in philly, which is right down
the street from me.
So I was like, oh, what's theflight number?
And I like rushed my pajamas tomeet her.
That's amazing.
Yeah, that's how.
And so I I already knew heronline, like we had taken an
online class together, but Ididn't know her.
I've never met her in person.
We met at the gate.
She refused to sit next to meon the airplane or ask anyone to
switch can't.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And imagine why?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
And then when we got
there she had to go to Whole
Foods and pump.
So I was like, okay, I'll seeyou later.
She was breastfeeding.
Yeah, I was like cool, cool,cool, See you later.
But I only knew about six orseven women at that, and I had
already started my first show,which was Lady Business Radio.
And at that conference I metKatie Kramitzos, I met Natalie
(10:25):
Ekdahl.
They were both doing women'sbusiness shows.
Both of them were like I was soinspired by your show that I
started my own and I was reallyproud of that.
And then I met Mignon Fogarty,who's Grammar Girl, and a couple
other women who are podcasting,and I just wanted to have them
all in a little group to myselfwhen I left, because it was just
(10:46):
a sea of men and I just had thefeeling that men don't deal
with podcasting issues the sameway that women do, and at the
time.
For me, that was tech, that'ssimple, software that's easy,
not too complicated, not toolong, too long, not too detailed
.
I don't want to edit it likeI'm.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
You know, mozart and
it's not because we're too dumb
to understand it, it's becausewe don't have whatever genetic
need.
We they that bed dude like geek, totally geek out on all the
little tiny.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
they have the freedom
god bless them and and the time
to do more, to get more intonitpickiness in podcasting than
we do.
We have a message we want toget out and we want to do it
without hassle.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
I just a lot of my
life is me avoiding hassle and
this was just one of those times, so like I really do go out of
my way to avoid it, yeah, soseriously, this was it was it's
like the crystallization of likeI had this idea that came
together for power, moms, andwhen I, when I thought about
when I was getting ready to talkto you today, I was like,
(11:57):
really so much of the reason whyI started this in terms of this
specific frustration of notbeing able to get have my voice
heard at the table because it'sfull of men, or having the
discussions not apply to me ortake into consideration what's
actually the reality of my lifeas a mother, as a woman and so,
and so I needed that and so Ilove that.
(12:18):
That's part of why you startedthat and you're able to
recognize when you saw thesewomen scattered, that there was.
yeah, so, but here's what I love.
I love that you not only saw,hey, I just want to keep these
numbers at my fingertips andreach out to them.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
No, you made a whole
community woman.
Their advice was so much morevaluable in that weekend than
any man I came across.
And I mean I specifically wentout of my way to ask, like John
Lee Doobus, questions aboutgrowth and you know, and, and
then the answer he gave me, god,I mean it was so.
God bless him, right, but itwas so, mathy.
I was like how do you grow?
And he was like how long isyour show?
I said about an hour and hegoes, split it into two half
(12:56):
hour shows and your downloadshave doubled.
And I was like, thanks, like Icouldn't figure that out,
matthew matthewson okay, okayfor the people who are listening
and not watching.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
You know the face
that squidward gives to
spongebob all the time that'sthe face.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I was trying to do
the flat um the line smile emoji
, like I was just so annoyed.
You nailed it.
It was annoying.
It was annoying and I was likenot disappointed.
Here's a lovely person, but Iwas just disappointed in what I
thought was going to be amagical secret.
It was really like do whateveryou can, you know, do hustle, do
(13:39):
what you got to do is reallythe answer.
And I didn't want that answer.
I wanted an answer that morethat like Mignon would give me,
or that Elsie would give me, orthat you would give me, which is
like literally anything else,to cut your show in half.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
But you know what's
funny?
I think the lack of a goodanswer, a lack of an answer that
was relevant to you, ended upgetting you to move in the
direction that ended up actuallybeing the answer.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
actual answer was
yeah, community was,
relationships, was collaborationlike all of those things were
actually the answer.
You guys can all thank john leedumas.
He's actually.
He's actually also the personthat taught me how to podcast.
Because I googled how topodcast, his little five dollar
ebook came up on amazon andthat's what I used to just slap
(14:23):
it together in like two weeks,my first show.
Yes, we owe it all to JLD, I'msorry to say.
He loves it when I say it.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
There's always a man
at the top.
There's always a man.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
He loves what I say,
even if you have to be inspired
to do the opposite of that man.
There's always a man, but yeah,Exactly, Exactly, Exactly.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
But what I do love is
that you did.
You were inspired to do theopposite because, as a growing
podcaster so 2017, I'd beendoing it about three years at
that point and trying mydamnedest to get seen.
I mean, that's why you guysgave me that award.
You're like she's all over theplace.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I was I will not be
ignored.
I was that girl.
Was it the most hard working,or something?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
because you were
busting oh no, that's, that's
listen.
You do not go for boring whenyou your awards.
You called it the.
You called it the in your faceaward.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
I got the in your
face podcast really, it just
meant this woman is everywhere.
Uh, she's what it means.
It meant to me that you'reworking really hard.
You know who would win thataward now ariel nissenblatt.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
She is everywhere, or
she was amazing because it was
amazing, because I walked intothat room so it was um like a
pre pre-day for pod fest, likeattached to it as a pre-day.
So I walked into that room, soit was um like a pre pre-day for
pod fest, like attached to itas a pre-day.
So I walked into that room fullof women and you and elsie
(15:53):
walked up to me and knew who Iwas, which blew the heck, like
blew my mind right of course weknow who you were teaching me,
though I was learning while Iwas experiencing this how to
make people feel seen, and howI've carried that with me.
For are you ready?
For how long I've carried thatwith me?
You ready?
I?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
can't believe you
have this.
Oh my god, I can't believe youhave it.
(16:50):
Where did you get this from?
Speaker 1 (16:57):
you cried so, yes,
yes, dreams do come true,
because you showed me that thedream can.
I could like cry right now, butgod, the dream can extend so
much further than than yourself.
And my show at the time wascalled curve the cube and it was
(17:21):
about dreamers becoming doers,and so the dreaming was, I mean,
huge for me.
That, that concept of having adream, martin luther king, you
know it was like dreamersbecoming doers, and so the
dreaming was, I mean, huge forme.
That concept of having a dream,martin Luther King, you know it
was like have a dream, it couldbe such a big thing.
And I had this dream and youmade me feel, seen, there were
moments when, in the early partof my career, where it's like I
(17:42):
just needed that push, I neededthat validation I need, and you
were there to give that.
And so I want to say, first ofall, thank you for that, but,
but then also thank you for thelearning lesson of that, because
you lit a spark, mama Right,and I'm carrying that torch with
tons of pride as I build powermoms, so clearly you're good at
(18:07):
making people feel seen.
You're good at buildingspecifically women empowered and
empowering communities.
So I guess my question now isthis, because that's, that was
my first introduction to thecommunity.
I love it, that little momentthere.
I love it.
I called you a hustling fool.
How have you seen the community?
Yeah, you called me a hustlingfool.
(18:28):
It was the best day ever.
I know it was so funny.
How have you seen thatcommunity evolve?
Because I know with thepandemic it took a hit because
you guys were starting to doyour own conferences and stuff.
So just how, what's the stateof the union these days with the
she Podcasts community?
Speaker 2 (18:43):
You know, at the time
I really thought the event was
going to be the way to geteveryone together.
I still believe that, had wenot had a pandemic.
But I have to say I've spentthe last four years so engrossed
in cleaning up a pandemic mess,financial mess of the pandemic
and stuff like that that.
I haven't really dedicated asmuch time to the community
(19:06):
itself as I would like to, whichis kind of why we started the
Sonic Bloom Awards, because I Ireally do want to highlight and
acknowledge people who work hardnot just for our industry but
for their own industry.
That they're just like killingit on the.
You know in the name of youknow like Jenny wetter, repro.
You know in the name of you.
Know like jenny wetter, repro.
(19:26):
You know reproductive rightsand, um, she's just the first
person that came to my head, butthere, but there are so many
right.
So you know, like nicole walkerand latrice, like stories all
around us, like those, areamazing I just released an
episode with nicole walker today.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
literally just
released an episode with her
today, I swear to God.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
She's amazing.
She's, you know, and they'reall so dedicated that I, you
know we didn't want to gounnoticed.
But I can't say that I'm asclose.
First of all, when we firststarted the group, it was like,
I mean, it quickly shot to 5,000people, but like I felt like I
knew them, like I knew them,whereas now it's 21,000, I guess
like six or 7,000 are active,and that makes sense, because
(20:09):
once you start your podcast andyou're going, you may not need
the group as much as you did,but I wish I had a better pulse
on it, but you know it.
Also, we really wanted thepeople in the community to
support and educate each other,and so that has definitely, has
always been that way and it isstill that way.
(20:29):
You can post anything in thatgroup and someone will be kind
enough to respectfully answeryour question without making you
feel stupid, which is all wewanted, right?
Speaker 1 (20:37):
So, like I mean, I
don't know that I have to be in
there so much anymore you know,yeah, you've you set such an
example of that collaborativespirit and everything that I can
see.
How that, how that's true, youknow, yes, I'm very lucky that
it does sort of bleed throughwhat you do.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
You know, like if you
, if you set certain behavioral
standards in a community foryourself, then other people just
follow it, which is great, andso it's something that we didn't
even want responsibility for atfirst.
Like elsieie and I were likeyou lead it, no, you lead it,
you lead it, I don't want tolead it.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
So we're like all
right, that's so interesting
because it totally flies in theface of the whole idea of women
have to be are our cutthroat.
It also flies in the face of,you know, the people who are
leaders.
They then have to becompetitive with each other.
That's not at all how.
You guys neither of us are.
No, not at all, and you've builtsuch the whole community.
(21:35):
That's the spirit of it, and Ithink so.
So I'm curious, though.
So you talked about why youstarted the community in terms
of a reaction to having it belike all men talking about
podcasting and helping eachother.
But why so, if a lot of women,almost every woman on this
(21:55):
planet, has experienced feelinglike they can't get their voice
heard?
Not all women take action anddo anything about it?
What do you think it was withinyourself that made you feel
like I need to do something?
Why does Jessica?
Why is Jessica a doer?
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Oppositional defiance
.
That's why that is seriously,why I didn't realize until
recently how much that hasfueled my life.
But it is pure.
I mean like I always tell my my25 year old, I was like because
, um, you know, like I graduatedcollege, I mean like I had
dropped out to have my daughterand then, um, my father-in-law
(22:35):
was like I don't think you'llever go back and I was like you
want to.
Are you sure about that?
I'm sure he was just trying togoad me, but you know you, he
maybe knew exactly what to say.
You can accomplish a lot withspite.
And so I was like.
I was like I'm spiteful.
I felt spiteful and resentful.
I mean, like I went to the firstpodcast movement the first
(22:56):
podcast movement was almost allwhite men speakers, except for
Jamie Tardy who had only been,who was doing the state of
podcasting and had only reallybeen doing it for like three
years.
You know, people who have beendoing it a long time were
furious about that that firstyear.
Um, but yeah, I think the doingis just like being annoyed
enough and impatient enough and,you know, stupidly brave enough
(23:22):
, I guess.
Like I, like I have, I alwaysthink something's going to be
easier than it was.
I mean, first of all, it wasjust a tiny, you know Facebook
group with all my friends.
I didn't know that it was evengoing to turn into this.
It wasn't specifically thedream, it just sort of happened.
Um, I didn't, I didn't set outwith that goal of becoming a
leader in the you know and Istill, like I said, it was kind
(23:45):
of you got accidentally, went inthat direction.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
It was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Yeah, I mean like I
had a baby and when I came back
the, the women's entrepreneurialcommunity was pretty well taken
care of in the podcastingcommunity, else he was like
drowning without someone elsehelping in that group.
So I just started dedicatingall my time to it because
somebody needed you know to tohelp and I just you know to to
(24:09):
help and I just you know, tohelp her.
So I and it wasn't just hers,it was just like I started the
group and then seven monthslater I had a baby.
So it was, you know, it's justtiming.
But yeah, I mean, as far asdoing, though, I think I'm not
as kind and sweet.
I mean like I'm just impatientand annoyed.
And it's true, it's like, ifI'm impatient and annoyed, like
I think one time I went topodcast movement and I was like
(24:29):
why are all the T-shirts alwaysfucking navy blue?
I'm sick of this shit.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You can't have a
green.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
And why are they
always all men's?
Speaker 1 (24:37):
cuts when I you know
when you have.
Can we get a V-neck on some ofthem?
Can we get an amen for a V-neck?
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yes, my God, when you
wear, when you have big boobs
and you wear all the way up toyour neck, it just looks like
they fall in five inches.
It's not nice, it's not nicegentlemen, if you're listening.
It's not good.
So, yeah, so, like a looser, Idon't know, I just was like
there's nothing pretty here tolook at, there's nothing fun
(25:08):
here to look at, there's nothingfun here to look at, it's all
tech shit and white dudes andblack t-shirts.
I just, you know, I'm in this,I'm a visual person, and I got
you know.
And then, and I am, and youknow, with my friends I started
bitching about it, just likethis, and they were like you
should have your own show.
And I was like I don't know,but you know, I was just being
funny doing shtick and they werelike no, no, no, we would like
you to do that.
And I was like, oh, all, right,cool.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Okie dokie, jessica
sees something that must be done
and Jessica shall do it.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I mean, there's got
to be even if you've never done
this before.
There have got to be times youcan look back on your life and
been like you're doing a jobthat makes no sense in a company
, when, a they don't even needthis job done and, b your
skillset is so much better forsomething else.
Don't you just go to like I'mthe type of person that will go
to my boss and be like listen,this is all great, but here's
(26:02):
how this would be more efficientand here's how I would help you
with that.
I can't just sit and do stupidshit for the rest of my life for
no reason, Like I can't.
I wish I could believe me.
If I could, my life would be somuch simpler and I wouldn't
have been fired so many times,probably for having a big mouth.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
All right, all right.
So then now you mentionedyou've mentioned your daughter,
you mentioned your kids what doyou, while your kids are, seeing
what you, seeing what you do,building a community?
Well, I first.
Actually, I was going to askyou about your boys first, but I
want to ask you about yourdaughter first.
So, because I think there are alot of parenting stories that I
(26:43):
don't think get spoken aboutenough.
You of, like, miscarriage, Idon't think gets talked about
enough, those kinds of things.
So your journey is another onethat doesn't get spoken about
enough.
So I would love for you to tellus a little bit about this
story.
But first, start just tellingus about Emily, because whenever
you post about her, I'm like,oh man, I wish I could have met
her.
I wish I could have met her.
(27:04):
She's very funny.
So tell us about Emily, becausewhenever you post about her,
I'm like, oh man, I wish I couldhave met her.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I wish I could have
met her Tell us about Emily.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
She would have been
27 last month, correct?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, the 22nd.
Yeah, a couple weeks ago.
Yep, she would have been 27.
She passed away at 19 from adrug overdose in Utah, which is
across the country.
I had sent her to Utah as alast resort because rehabs just
weren't working.
Anyway, let's start at thebeginning.
So she was always so she'shilarious.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
She was hilarious and
funny and quirky, can't imagine
where she gets it from.
What can I say?
Speaker 2 (27:42):
But she was very
sassy and you know, and like,
yes, I have all those traits,but she also has always been
kind of quirky, mental healthwise.
She, you know like just little,I don't know.
Like you're a kid and you knowwhat it's like to be a kid.
So when your kid does somethingyou've never even considered to
(28:03):
be normal, you're like, oh God,is she an alien from another
planet or what I don't know,notice, yeah, so she kind of was
like that, like even in thewomb.
Honestly, I've never thrown upso much in my life, ever.
But with the boys, no, nothinghealthier than all get out.
But with her, oh my god, it wasamazing.
(28:24):
I'm alive, I just threw up somuch and I had no expectation of
it, anyway.
So yeah, our relationship waslike that.
Sometimes she would hate myguts because I wouldn't let her
do what she wanted that's everykid, I guess and most of the
time I was like her best bud.
But she still had a tendency todo stuff like.
I'll give you an example she umhated gym class, like, and so
(28:52):
she would forget it was gym dayand wear high heels and those
gym teachers were onto her andbe like you're gonna do
basketball in those shoes, Idon't care, oh my goodness yeah
a couple times we made her doshaunti's workout and she was
like that man is a sadist.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
But yeah, so Apple
didn't fall far from the tree.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Miss Oppositional
Defiance no I think all three of
them are actually, and I mean,if I can just allow them to,
somehow it hasn't gone well sofar.
I mean, like the first 20 yearsof your life, if you're
oppositional, it's really nogood.
It's only when you become anadult and you become in charge
of your own things that you'rejust like.
You know what I'm going to do,since I don't like this.
You know, you just have toharness your talents for good
(29:37):
instead of evil.
Don't take revenge.
You just have to createsomething better, or you have to
show this person that they'vedisrespected the wrong person,
or whatever it takes.
Whatever it takes for you to dosomething productive with your
disgruntledness.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Do you often find
that your advice, or how you
give advice, how you teach toyour children, mirrors how you
would give, let's say, advice toa budding podcaster on a couch
at a conference?
You know how you like tellingtelling people how to guide
their lives yeah, is it similar?
Speaker 2 (30:10):
yeah, probably.
I'm pretty straightforward andI and I try to simplify concepts
so that it doesn't feeloverwhelming and, and I probably
mother like- that too yeahbecause I saw, um some,
something you posted recently.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Because, uh, for
anybody who's wondering, geez
jimmy knows a lot about.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yes, I stalk her, but
we're friends on facebook so
it's like allowed or whatever.
So I told you, I told her a setinto relationship miss.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I've watched it for
years, the dating pain, so I saw
that one thing about yourparenting that I thought was
really interesting, cause I'mlike, oh my gosh, that resonate
with that.
So much you don't lie to yourkids about anything.
No, never, and and and and.
Let me tell you like I thinklittle lies are lies too Like
they're all lies.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
They all create
mistrust.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
There's a whole box
of donuts in the in the cabinet
and your kid wants a donut andthey're not allowed to have it.
Just tell them why they're notallowed to have a donut.
Don't tell them there's nodonut.
Just say listen, they're donuts, you're not allowed to have one
.
Go sit down.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Yeah, I mean, if they
can see the box, you're just a
liar to say they don't exist.
And kids don't like liars, theydon't.
So if you tell them like mysister's done a lot of this,
actually she's different from me.
First of all, she's much moreconcerned about organic food and
(31:33):
health and wellness.
She lives in California.
We grew up in the East Coast,so like she went there for what
my great-grandmother said, forthe weather.
But she did do a lot of likesugars, poison, you know that
kind of thing and and still Ithink you know.
Or or if somebody passes awayand and you don't want the kid
to know exactly what happened,like she makes some, she makes
(31:55):
things up and then later they'relike later they're like oh, mom
lied to us about this.
Mom lied to us about that.
I don't want to.
I don't want to do that, I haveI lied.
Mom lied to us about that.
I don't want to.
I don't want to do that, I have.
I lied to my older son one time.
He still throws it in my face.
He still throws it in my face.
We, we were trying to get ridof some of his thousand stuffed
animals and we told him thatthere was a hospital in alaska
(32:18):
full of children that neededtoys and he packed him up and
shipped him off to these sickkids that did not exist.
And he's still angry about it.
He was eight, he's 25 now andhe's like you lied so I mean, so
do you?
Speaker 1 (32:33):
did you rewind the
tape back to that moment when,
uh, you were faced with whetheror not to explain what a pimp
was, and you said, all right,I'm just gonna go with?
Speaker 2 (32:42):
the truth here and
just see what happens.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
We had to describe
what a pimp who explained that.
I thought it was hysterical.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I mean it was
actually much easier the third
time than it was the first twotimes.
First of all, he was older,he's older.
They were like eight and seven.
I don't even know if they knewwhat sex was, but like, but like
(33:18):
.
I had to sort of tell them in avery roundabout way that you
know, adults like to kiss andhug and touch each other and
sometimes people who aren'tmarried and don't have
boyfriends or girlfriends willpay someone for that.
I mean that's really what it is.
There you go and then, and thenthis time I mean he does know
it's.
You know he's 10, so he didn'tknow what sex was.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
So I just said
similar to say by the way,
everybody listening just wrotethat down, just in case their
kid asked them they will thefirst time was because of pimp
my ride.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
I was really bitter
about that.
Like what?
Like?
It's a great show, but do youhave to use pimp like do you
have to in the title?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
it was such a good
show such a good show.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Um, it was a great
show and they loved.
I mean.
Think about, I mean wouldn'tyou want love your kid to watch
a rapper?
You know, upgrade cars and makethem cool and and, yeah, yeah,
pimp them out and like now youhave to explain what that means.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Yeah, it was a shame.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Oh my god, yeah I
don't lie to them.
I know they'll find out if I do.
At first I'm a terrible liar.
Everyone catches me in a lie.
I do not lie, I just learned.
I always got caught.
My mother caught me every dime.
So around 14,.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
I was like I'm done
here, I'm just going to get in
trouble for the truth from nowon.
Lying is not worth it.
Let me ask you this If you knowthat there was no way you could
be the kind of parent thattells little white lies to your
kids and Jessica be the kind ofparent that, like, tells the
little white lies to your kids,and you know, jessica just says
it has as it is, were you ever?
(34:52):
Was there ever a part of youwhen you're, when you're
building your community andmeeting people and talking to
people and collaborating withpeople on a professional level?
Was there ever a part of youthat said I can't be that way?
Or were you just always stillbravely blunt?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
I have ADHD too, so
like.
So I've learned a lot of thingsabout myself, reflecting on
college and high school likelater.
I mean I had a lot of time tothink.
Right, I had Emily when I was22 and Nate when I was 23.
Right, so I was home a lot withno friends because they were
all out doing other stuff.
So like I was really young whenI had my two kids and you know,
(35:30):
and I was really caught up inthat.
And then when they got olderand I wasn't like, I've spent a
lot of the last couple yearstrying to learn about myself,
because you just don't have timewhen you're younger.
And so I can tell you that Ihave always been blunt.
It has not always made mepopular, um, it was really
unappreciated until I was moreof an adult as a kid I heard did
(35:54):
you do stand-up comedy as partof this?
Speaker 1 (35:57):
a little?
Speaker 2 (35:57):
yeah, yeah, you did
right when you had, I was 22
with a baby, so like I couldn'tgo to clubs at 11 and wait to do
open mic, like I couldn'treally.
Yeah, it wasn't until laterthat I did stand up comedy and
writing courses and stuff likethat, but yeah, I mean,
eventually I became the friendthat people would look at to say
(36:19):
what everyone else was thinkingand like little things.
That actually taught me thattoo.
Like you know, I went to summercamp for like 10 years and you
know, like I would say, fiveyears ago we were all at a lunch
and the waiter was being reallypersonal, like he just, instead
of writing down our food andleaving, he was like what are
(36:41):
you guys doing?
Speaker 1 (36:42):
What are you here
from?
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And they all started
looking at me and I was like,
thank you, okay, like we'd likewater now, um, and he walks away
.
He walks away and half thetable's like what the hell's
wrong with you?
And I was like what?
And they're like we rely on youto get rid of people like that.
(37:03):
And I was like, oh, okay, I'msorry, I had no idea that they
were like appreciate this partof me that everyone else seems
to hate.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
So we all do.
I can tell you that much,jessica.
We all love this, this elementof you, this element of your
energy.
It's so awesome.
I have two final questions,real quick, okay before.
I let you go.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
You don't have to let
me go, but okay, you don't have
to let me go but okay, that'sfun.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Okay, so you talked
about how people look at you to
say something, to take chargeand be that voice at that moment
it's actually an accent whoknew where I did.
Back towards the beginning ofthe conversation, I looked at
you as the person to help mefigure out how to find my own
voice and how to become a leaderand grow.
So when you think about howyour kids are watching you and
(38:01):
what your kids are seeing whenthey look at you as they see you
be an advocate in this way forwomen's voices and all these
things, how do you hope thatinfluences, especially in
particular, with respect to yoursons?
How do you hope that influenceshow they see women?
Speaker 2 (38:18):
So I definitely know
I was.
I didn't know what you weregoing to ask, but I was thinking
it definitely affected Emilybecause she did a lot of like,
so she died in Christmas 2016.
And that's right after you knowwho was elected president for
the first time she had a lot tosay about that.
Let me tell you she did so, like, so, like.
I was actually quite proud athow angry and boisterous I mean
(38:40):
truly, sometimes just downrightinappropriate, but but I still
I've never stopped her frombeing that way, because it's her
voice, it's her way ofexpressing that and like, yeah,
I mean actually it's kind of sad, jimmy, because my mom died
when I was 30 and she was myother best bud, so like my mom
died, my daughter died.
Just I mean I'm just left withall these dum-dums in here I'm
(39:05):
just kidding, they're lovely.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
That's why you, when
you call elsie or you call me,
yeah, that's right?
Speaker 2 (39:10):
no, I mean, I'm a
sister, but she's across the
country, um.
So yeah, so like the sons.
So there's definitely thatwhole you never hit a girl thing
that the older one, um, learnedthe younger one.
I've never had to tell that too, like you don't have to teach
new gender.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I forget how old
jordan is 11 or 12 okay, oh my
god, he's like two years, almost12.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
I don't know if
you've had to teach him that,
but I've never had to teachisaac don't hit a girl, because
you just don't hit people everyeah, period your hands are kept
to yourself at all times, solike there's some stuff about
women that he will innately know, that that nate will have to be
told, for example, also likeyou don't really.
This is actually one good thingabout having surprise children
(39:55):
when you're young and then youtry for one when you're old.
It's like they're far enoughapart where you can see how you
parented differently.
Like one time nate came intoour bedroom and I forget what he
was doing something and andscott goes, stop whining like a
girl and I punch, like I just Ididn't even, it wasn't even like
.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I was just like what
the hell?
Speaker 2 (40:15):
did you just say.
I was like do you really thinkthat's appropriate?
What does that tell him aboutwomen?
And he was like, oh my God,you're right.
Like he never thought of it,because that's just what we
fucking put up with.
Yeah, he's being told you runlike a girl, you hit like a girl
.
So, like isaac will never hearhopefully, he will never hear
(40:35):
that shit come out of someone'smouth an adult that he respects.
Because we now realize mostlybecause of 2018 and me too
movement, but you know also allthe different ways our society
has changed since my older twowere born.
Like we know better.
You don't question it.
You know pimping and sex work isa perfect example, like one
time I told elsie.
I was like did you just tell?
(40:56):
I was like I don't know.
Like her youngest was one ofher children, was trying to
dress um provocatively.
And I was like just tell hershe's dressed like a hooker.
She's like that won't doanything.
We respect sex workers.
Now I was like okay, I mean, Imean I can't say I disagree.
(41:17):
It's empowering, right, it's awomen's empowerment thing.
I don't want to necessarilydisparage sex, sex workers.
That's just what I was told.
You look like a hooker, youdon't want to look right, but
now I guess that's not a badthing, because everybody's work
is respectable.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Oh, we can't even say
that you look, you're gonna end
up on the pole like that.
Because now pole dancing is asport, because I think it's
gonna be allowed in the olympicsactually you would say you're
gonna end up on the pole.
Speaker 2 (41:43):
She's like will you
get me one from amazon tomorrow?
I'd like to start practicing.
It means nothing and that'sfine, I'm okay with that.
I mean, I just took a minute totry and rephrase Right, like
you know.
But what I ended up telling herwas I ended up, you know, and
actually I met Meg shortly afterthis and I was like here's the
deal.
This is what I said becauseobviously I couldn't disparage
(42:04):
sex workers.
So I was like your mom isworried that you will be put in
a situation where someone willbe behaving inappropriately to
you for your age, like she's 12.
I said you look 16 but you don'twant people to treat you like
you're 16 or 18, because it'snot appropriate and it will
traumatize you that's it verywell put, very well put.
(42:27):
Yeah, communication major thankyou so much, but yeah, so, so,
yeah, I mean, like the crowdgoes wild, yeah, yeah, but also,
jimmy, it's, it's actually moreimportant to me that my husband
treat me a certain way.
He treats me as an equal.
He takes care of the food, he'sa better, cleaner than me, um,
but we take, you know, we taketurns doing everything.
He's a full, equal partner, um,and that is really what I
(42:51):
wanted to see.
That's really why I divorcednate and emily's dad is because
I didn't.
They were one and two, but Ididn't want him to see that's
how you treat women and I didn'twant her to see that's how she
should be treated.
And I may or may not have beensuccessful because they still
had, you know, he still hadcustody.
So there is still some massage,some influence.
Yeah, probably grew out of ittoo.
You know, we were both reallyyoung.
(43:12):
He was like 29, but like youknow, and he's 50 something now,
I don't know.
But you know he's remarried andall the things.
So I'm sure he's learned hislessons.
But like I wanted them to seewhat a proper relationship looks
like.
And I will tell you my olderson, he's 25.
He's had two relationships andboth of them have been for two
years or longer.
So he's respectful, he'sthoughtful, he's goofy, but
(43:37):
they're good men.
I married a good man and I'mgrowing two good men, and so are
you.
You will never have to Thankyou, you will probably.
I mean, it's hard when you're asingle mom because you worry
like what kind of?
You don't just worry, I meanjust from being a single mom.
I don't want to speak for you.
I worried about being so busytaking care of things.
(44:00):
I didn't spend enough time withthem.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
That's the first
thing, and then the second thing
oh my god, that that definedlike the first 10 years of his
life.
Yeah, you're probably still onthat a little bit.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
I love that.
And then the other half of itis like if I remain single, how
will they ever know what lovelooks like?
How will I ever?
Speaker 1 (44:17):
know what love looks
like.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Do I get to know what
love looks like?
I hope so, because this isbullshit, exactly Right.
And I know you struggled withthat one yourself because I
stopped you through it and youwere just like I don't know.
And I actually because I'm mymemory is like iffy, like I
don't remember if it wasstrictly dating apps or just
different relationships that youwere like becoming, but I could
tell you were becoming likelike what's the word now I can't
(44:42):
think jaded, almost just likehope, like hopeless, like I'm
just gonna give up.
You're just like you know what.
I'm just giving hope and Ithought maybe that's safest for
now, because this sucks, becauseI didn't want to settle.
I didn't want to settle, and whyshould you?
Speaker 1 (44:56):
You shouldn't.
I was not going to settle forsomeone who wasn't going to be
the role, like a good role modelA good man.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
You need a good man
Period.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Although if you count
the entire United States
population, probably they arerare because you know, there's
people out there that are socrazy.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
But unfortunately
that's true, according
especially to my dating roster.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
Same with me girl.
I did internet dating in 2001.
Oh my God.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
You don't even know
Married dudes.
Dude, it was a wide field, atotal wide field.
I could write a whole book.
So okay, so as you talk I meanwe've talked about first of all
I already know the name of theone of the name of this episode
is going to be at least my rideenough, I will.
So it's gonna be pimping ain'teasy, it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Pimpin' Ain't Easy.
Yes, oh my God, I love that somuch.
It's so funny.
Oh my God, do you want to hearsomething funny?
At the award, my two collegefriends this just reminded me.
You might want to edit it out,I don't know but at the award,
my two college friends, missyand Amy, were there to help.
Like they came early to up towhat and they were getting, you
(46:12):
know, they were getting kind oftired of like the like you can
do it, music, so that.
So for the podcasting dynamicduo, their own award, by the way
that they won.
They wanted us to play walk andI was like you know what?
I'm going to do it just for youguys.
And they were so excitedthey're like who's gonna?
(46:34):
I can't wait to see who's gonnawalk up for that, having no
idea it would be themselves thatit was.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Oh my god, that's
just they did it to themselves.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
That's hilarious.
It ain't easy.
That's exactly.
I love it.
Please name it.
Speaker 1 (46:47):
That it's hilarious,
I love it so I think what we,
what what my listeners are goingto realize from this
conversation is a little bitabout leadership, a little bit
about building community, alittle bit about the importance
of empowering women's voices.
I mean a little, a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
You covered a lot.
That's a good interview, I haveto say a little bit about
mental health.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
A that's a good
interview.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
I have to say a
little bit about mental health,
a little bit about, you know,parenting late you did, you
covered the gamut.
I'm telling you you deservethat award again.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
You're a great
podcaster, fully.
Thank you, thank you.
So in episode five of the show,I was speaking with a woman
named Rebecca Caffiero, andsomething she said really struck
me.
I want to ask you about it realquick.
She was talking about thedifference between your zone of
excellence and your zone ofgenius.
Your zone of excellence beingwhat you're good at, Like I'm
(47:42):
yeah, I'm good at a certain listof things, and your zone of
genius, what you actually livefor.
So I think we've talked a wholelot about what you're good at.
I mean, I can see the praisesof you as as all the things all
the time, but what is your zoneof genius?
What do you live for?
Comedy?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Yeah, my zone of
genius is being funny, like it
or not.
And um and I.
It's funny that youdifferentiated that, because
towards the end of emily's life,all I wanted her to do was find
one of those.
In fact, I didn't even want herto find one of those, I wanted
her to admit one of thosebecause you already know, if you
are listening mental health ornot, a addict or not you know
(48:27):
what shit you're good at.
That's easy, and that is thething that you don't respect
about yourself.
That's the zone of genius,right?
I'm funny.
Therefore, it can't possibly bea career, because it's easy for
me and for her it was allgenius.
She could draw first grade.
She comes over.
Her first art class was likeshe's trying to tell me how to
draw.
I already know how to draweverything.
(48:48):
She was six.
I was like why don't you teachher?
Then, honey, go ahead.
So that was her zone of genius.
Therefore, it was boring.
You know it's boring.
So then your zone of excellenceis the thing that you, a skill
that you've honed, for better orfor worse, and for me that is
(49:13):
for better or for worse, and forme that is gosh.
That is really hard toverbalize.
I am a tech.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
I'm a tech, I'm the
every man's tech expert.
Okay, so like if you want toknow how to figure out.
Speaker 2 (49:24):
But I've already
figured out a lot of it too.
So I don't mean, like, whyisn't my printer working?
I mean like I can you know?
If you want to set up an onlinebusiness and sell stuff, I know
how to do that.
If you want to start a podcast,I know how to do that.
If you want to know which AI isgoing to make you a whole
creative plan, from start tofinish, including the social
media, I can tell you who doesthat.
(49:45):
I can tell you who will get youleads for sales.
I can tell you who will planyour vacations for you.
I can tell you all about.
I just am constantly dabbling intech and, like also, I worked
for a really long time.
That's how I met Elsie in.
That first online group wascalled RHHB school by Marie
Forleo.
(50:05):
It was rich, happy and hot Bschool and those women were all
starting like they were coachesand and um life.
You know helpers and authentic.
You know authenticity expertsand stuff.
They didn't have a clue how tobuild a website.
So I got busy.
I knew how to do every techthing we were learning how to do
(50:27):
in that group and I was justconstantly in the Facebook group
being like no, what you need isthis.
No, what you need is this I'llhelp you with it, I'll help you
with it.
I'll help you with it.
That's my zone of excellence, Ithink, is explaining tech to
people who find it toooverwhelming and confusing, and
then fixing the shit so it'seasier, you know creating
systems, solutions Butterfly.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
I call it internet
batgirl.
But yeah, but yeah, of courseyours would sound way more
badass than what I know.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Well, my husband's
into batman, you know he's
thinking he's got the bat toolbelt and stuff.
So that's me.
It's amazing.
So like, yeah, my job of geniusis being funny.
I am still.
I'm at the precipice offiguring out how that's gonna
serve me.
I'm trying to do it more.
I was a little disappointed.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
I didn't see you at
the precipice of figuring out
how that's going to serve me.
I'm trying to do it more.
I was a little disappointed Ididn't see you at the on stage
for the open mic at podfest.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
I didn't know there
was one Disappointed, but my
kids, I know.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
So now you need to
make sure that you're on that
stage.
Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yeah, Every every um
like the second.
The event was over Scott andand stuff, so that's why I
didn't.
I couldn't participate inpodcast this year, um cause I
wanted them to come to.
I wanted him to see universalfor the first time and he loved
it.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Sure, I really wish
he would have met Jordan.
I should have taken your kidwith me.
I love the photo you set up.
That was it.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
That was at the
medieval feast and where were
you guys when you saw thatpicture?
It's just called pirates dinneror something like pirates
dinner in Orlando, I don't know.
But basically, if you've everbeen to medieval times, it's
very similar but it's pirates.
So you get an eye patch and abandana and then you sit while
while you cheer on pirates whoare like fighting each other in
a in a boat over a princess.
Yeah, it was it was pretty cool.
(52:04):
I mean, we really.
He really wanted to go to thetitanic museum but it was sold
out.
That was his idea of a goodtime is watching people die in
Titanic over and over and overagain.
So bizarre.
But apparently that's a thing,jenny.
I've looked it up and there areactually birthday party
decorations for Titanic, whichis so weird.
What?
Yes, I know Plates and stuffwith the big bonus on it?
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Let me guess on
Amazon.
It's found on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (52:29):
I mean honestly, but
like what if your kids in World
War II you just have like aHolocaust birthday party, like
that's basically what this is?
Thousands of people died.
It makes no sense to me.
Hindenburg yay, so bizarreHappy birthday.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
Happy birthday,
hindenburg.
Happy birthday.
Watch the people drown.
Oh my god, jessicaica, I cantalk to you forever.
Jeez, louise, I know, sorry,sorry if people want, no, no, if
you want to get in touch withyou for to experience your zone
of excellence and the techbutterfly stuff or badass batman
thing that you just said, um,or, and get a side of your zone
(53:08):
of genius, a side of comedy atthe same time, how do they
connect with you?
How do they find, follow andsupport you, jessica?
Speaker 2 (53:13):
I mean right now the
only things I have live are
ShePodcastcom, but I am workingon JessicaKupfermancom, so check
back on that and see if there'sanything happening there,
because I'm trying to update itas soon as I can.
I'm going to start being morevisible on TikTok and maybe
start telling funny stories justas a way to to like work my
(53:34):
comedy muscle a little bit.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
You know what Comedy
and and and and tragedy are two
sides of the same coin.
Oh, my God, yes, and you'veknown both and I think that you
can.
You can absolutely shine andbring a whole nother level of of
comfort and community to topeople by doing so.
I can't wait to see what whatthe future brings.
And thank you again for yourtime today and for being part of
(53:59):
our advisory board.
Speaker 2 (54:01):
So excited to have
you.
We didn't even talk about your,your network, but I'm so
excited for you, I'm honoredthat I am even in the smallest
way, way, a glimmer of idea foryou to create it.
So thank you so much.
That really means a lot to me.
And you are still a hustlingfool.
I love it.
Nothing has changed.
(54:21):
I mean, at least someone sawyou for that.
I love that you're like.
You finally saw me for beingthe hustling fool that I am.
It's true, it's true, we did,and I and yeah, I'm glad you
take that with you because atthe time it was really important
for me and Elsie to torecognize you for that.
You've seen some veryhardworking and a little
unappreciated.
Speaker 1 (54:39):
So it meant so much
to me, so much to me.
So thank you for continuing toallow people to be seen, jessica
.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Thanks for being here
,