Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
No, I think I know
what the podcast episode is
going to be Ten times yeah.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Oh wow.
And this one doesn't have a⦠orgo live Live disaster.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Usually we cut these
pieces out.
Oh, that's right, sorry.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Editing.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Hello everyone and
welcome to the Power Platform
Boost podcast, your timelysource of Power Platform news
and updates, with your hostsNick Dolman and Ulrike Ackerbeck
.
As that's what you're lookingat now, is our brain scrambling
to get ready to do a recordingof the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Right, which we're
also trying to do live on
YouTube.
We're trying to do live.
I think that that's nothappening, whether it's the
internet or whatever.
So I've actually we're justgoing to be recording so you
will be able to go back laterand watch this.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
So I'm doing it, so
that way, we can yeah, we can
get going.
We can get going, yes, allright.
Usually this takes us about twohours to get done, and now
we're trying to do it in 30minutes and provide value for
you guys.
Uh, so we're gonna failmiserably and you're gonna be
watching it live.
How's's that?
It's perfect.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
So, yeah, so, let's
actually.
Yeah, weather's great.
Good, we talked about that Good.
Kids are good.
Vacation's good.
How was your weekend?
Weekend's good?
Okay, good Because we have 30minutes, because I have a
mentoring session right afterthis.
So we actually have.
That's what we always shouldhave.
All right, let's dive into thenews and updates that have
happened in the world of thePower Platform in the last two
weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yes, let's do that.
Okay, so you guys are now atNordic Summit and you've spent
your whole day ramping up on allthe new fancy stuff from all
the wonderful speakers here, butalso there's some things
happening online.
So you want to cover the firstnews item on the list, nick,
(02:07):
because you can now see, this isusually what our setup is like
when we report a podcast, right?
Speaker 2 (02:09):
So you're seeing kind
of the behind the scenes.
We have a OneNote where weactually collect these news
stories and look at the variousnewsletters like Power Platform
Weekly and Power Platform DevWeekly and some of these other
ones.
So this is something I saw fromJames.
I should have the full namethere, do I have?
Yeah, james Ryan and he talkedabout getting started with
Playwright for model-driven appsand now this is something.
(02:30):
We saw a session in, I think,london in the spring.
It was on Playwright and wethought, okay, for testing
model-driven apps, this issomething that we need to learn
and get into.
And James has actually startedto put together a whole blog
post on how to use Playwrightand its architecture for testing
model-driven apps.
So, yeah, it looks really cool.
(02:51):
He's got a lot of some code inhere, a lot of interesting
things, and it looks like he'sthings that are missing, and it
looks like he's going tocontinue on with more of these
blog posts.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So this is great
because this is something that I
think is both on your and mylist is to learn how to do
playwright and use that in ourprojects for testing.
Yeah, and I'm wondering if wecan now bring this in and use
this for the other products inthe platform as well, because
you look at something likecustom pages or code apps and
the things we know.
We can't go back and edit it.
So what happens is you createsomething and you delete it.
You throw it away again, right,right.
So then testing becomes veryimportant.
Does this thing do what theother thing did that I just
(03:31):
threw away?
So testing is becoming more andmore important, absolutely,
yeah, it's good to get.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Right Cool.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yes.
So the next thing on the listis something which we all know
is very potent these days and alot of people like killing
low-code.
So Thomas Hanser, one of theorganizers, is Thomas here.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
No, no, okay, good, I
told him not to come.
Oh, perfect, okay, good, goodenough.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
No, no, we talked
about his blog post last time,
which got a lot of attention andcomments, and now someone from
the community that we talk abouta lot, david Wyatt, has also
posted will vibe coding kill lowcode?
And he's actually flipping itaround because his arguments are
that the cost of AI and thecredits is not in the favor of
(04:22):
AI, and he does some simplecalculations saying that, okay,
you can compare what the runswill cost and also you think, oh
, marshall's Law, yeah, it'sgoing to be cheaper and cheaper.
Well, if Microsoft's still notmaking money off Co-Pilot Studio
, do you think it's going to becheaper down the line?
Maybe not.
So if you're looking atsomething that could be a flow,
(04:42):
it should be a flow still.
So what to use for differentscenarios becomes very important
when you look at it from a costperspective and also the
deterministic outcomes.
Some things in yourorganization you can't leave up
to the LLM.
You simply need thatdeterministic outcome and you
need to know what it's going toproduce every single time and
(05:03):
the consistency.
That also means that in hismind that AI is not going to be
just AI going forwards, and healso talks about security,
especially with LLMs.
This is a very interestingdiscussion and the technical
debt, etc.
So this is a very, very goodblog post, not just from a
(05:24):
thought leadership perspective,but also going into the details,
and that's what David does.
It's brilliant with that Goinginto the details, giving us the
calculations, the math behindhis reasoning.
So a very good blog post if youwant to check that out.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
And then we had a
name change.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
No, really no.
Microsoft changed the name what?
Speaker 1 (05:45):
That never happens.
Yeah, I know it's so strange,right?
So does anyone remember?
Yeah, of course it's on thescreen, so now you all know.
So we just picked one of thebazillion posts about this on
LinkedIn because somethingchanges a name.
It's big news.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Oh, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
And then I thought,
wow, okay, I need to.
Yeah, okay, so what's going onthen?
And it's so underwhelming Ialmost fell asleep.
It's like, okay, microsoft 365,copilot that we all know and
love the chat is now CopilotStudio Lite.
Yeah, yeah, that's the exactlike.
Hmm.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And then you have the
Copilot Studio Lite Four.
I know it's crazy, right?
And the names actually havedouble quotes in them as well.
I've never seen something thisstupid in my life.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It's so ridiculous
and I think again, like I when I
worked at Microsoft, I actuallywent on a rant about name
changes in one of these meetingswith the marketing people going
on.
You don't realize the impactthat a name change has.
Like sure, on the, the websites, whatever, oh, it's now called
co-pilot, studio light, big deal.
But working in docs, that meansyou have to change a whole
bunch of documentation around.
Think of all the content thatyou folks out there you're
(07:00):
creating for the community youryoutube videos, your blog posts,
all those things that nowthey're kind of terms that are
out of date and interesting.
I was, uh, I got a message fromlisa crosby so I think most of
you know who Lisa Crosby is andI was like, oh, how's it going?
And I don't know if I'm allowedto say but she's writing a book
on Copilot, surprise, surprise.
And she said literally therewas about two days from sending
(07:21):
it to the publisher before thisname change came, so she had to
go through her entire book andmake sure the name changes were
correct before it hit thepublisher.
So anyways, these are the typesof big impacts that I've ranted
about it to the Microsoftmarketing team and kind of got
the little pat on the head likethey're there, it's fine, it's
all right, it's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
Yeah, they think, and
I've started doing this.
Megan Walker taught me this.
When I create a blog post, Ialways make sure to have a thing
at the top going this have athing at the top going this was
accurate at the time I wrote it.
If something along these linesisn't correct anymore, it's not
my fault.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Right.
So yeah, name changes, We'lldata flex our way around that
one.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah, yeah, so
there's other news as well.
Yes, on the nitty-grittydetails right, you talk about
this usual locos that killed thethought leadership on the top,
but then also we have peoplelike Karsten Gross who will
remind us that there arenitty-gritty detail changes as
well that we need to be aware of.
For example, that they have nowexpanded the tolerance for
(08:22):
files that you can use with youragents, so now you can have up
to 1,000 files and have itindexed out from SharePoint, for
instance, or OneDrive.
So it's the 5x the premiumlimits, and I'm surprised
because it's all about 10x thesethings.
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, so Ithink a bit underwhelming again.
Yes, oh no, I think I know whatthe podcast episode is going to
be 10 times yeah.
(08:43):
Right Okay, oh wow.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
And this one doesn't
have a⦠or or go live disaster.
Usually we cut these pieces out.
Oh, that's right, sorry,editing.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
Live editing.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
And also we have a
few.
We have this and then we haveanother post from someone's
actually here and that's a bitinteresting.
Oh, cool I know that Haurang andJesus Christ.
Now I'd find just my headcrashed.
He did a podcast aboutmodel-driven apps the ultimate
cheat sheet, the things hewished he knew before he started
(09:19):
working with model-driven appsand I've talked to people here
today that discovered workingwith model-driven apps from a
session here today andabsolutely love it, and so for
us who grew up with Dataverse,that's kind of a weird concept,
but you have to realize more andmore people are actually coming
into our platform from Copilot,studio or from other products,
(09:39):
and that's weird for us, butit's interesting and you need to
kind of keep feeding theminformation as well.
So this is a very good post byHodang that I really like.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, hodang's a
great guy.
Like if anybody has met him.
He's a super like very humbleguy, but he's produces some
really amazing content and justvery strategic about it as well.
Yeah, and again I saw this andlike, oh yeah, here, here,
here's Hodig showing off againthis really cool thing that he
made.
So we love you.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
And then I'm looking
at, and then I'm looking at.
Okay, so this is something thatI put in here, that I wanted to
pick your brains on, becauseyou work with this.
Oh, yes.
I knew that this would exciteyou.
So Louise Fries, which is interms of thought leadership, is
one of the big voices in ourcommunity, and usually she rants
.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah, a little bit
yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Like worse than we do
, but this time actually, it was
another kind of take onsomething.
She is talking about how towork with data modeling through
Mermaid, and I know that youworked with it, so did you see
this post?
Speaker 2 (10:41):
I saw the post and
actually Louisa showed me this
oh, actually about a month ortwo ago, as she was working on
it because she said well, I knowyou worked with Dataverse and
Mermaid before.
Can I show you what I'm workingon?
And I'm like, well, sure, so wegot on Teams and she walked me
through and I gave her somefeedback and everything, and at
that time it was all commandline based and so now she's
(11:02):
actually has a front end to it,which she wrote with React as
well, but it's great.
So I don't know if you don'tknow what, if anybody who
doesn't know what Mermaid isMermaid is a kind of a
diagramming language.
Since I discovered Mermaid, Idon't use Visio anymore to write
, to draw my ERDs, my enterpriserelationship diagrams, which
shows the relationships of yourtables in a database or like for
(11:23):
Dataverse, for example.
So with Mermaid you canactually write a text format and
then put that in.
I think there's a website youput in.
It will render it as your ERDdiagram, which is pretty cool.
So what Louisa did is she tookthat concept and then made it
into the Dataverse API.
So once you've done yourdiagram, you're happy with your
(11:45):
ERD.
You take that mermaid format,which is a text format.
You spit it into the machineand it will create those tables
and those columns and thoserelationships.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Doesn't that sound
like something else that we
might have in the platform?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
It sounds a little
bit what plan designer does, but
plan designer is, of course,has some AI behind it, so
sometimes it's a little bitdifferent.
Plan designer doesn't deal withglobal option sets and hers
does, and hers is actually lessAI driven but more deterministic
driven.
So again it kind of goes,reiterates the past, the thing
(12:24):
of, yes, ai is really cool, cando a lot of new things.
But sometimes, like what yousaid, a flow should just be a
flow, it just should follow adeterministic pattern.
So definitely check out it'sopen source.
You can download it from github, being open source too.
If you want to contribute, I'msure she's open to those
contributions to help modifythis.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
So this is probably a
tool that should be in every
solution solution architectstoolbox and I'm looking for her
to create the other way around,because how many of you would
like something thatautomatically documented your
whole um data model and drew itout.
Yeah, and drew it out as amermaid chart, for instance.
Right, that would be somethingvery interesting.
Yes, okay, so moving on, andactually we're doing good on
(13:06):
time and the list is very shortthis time right, because,
because I was traveling and not,yeah, getting ready for this
and everything like that.
But actually this is veryinteresting.
Jonas Rapp is here.
Jonas, he's not in the room,right?
Oh, okay, so you can tell himthat we talked about it and we
also had that both of us.
But right, so this is flippingthe query in Fetchxml Builder
(13:30):
with AI, and this is somethingthat would, if I knew about this
before I saw this post.
I just this week did thismanually.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Oh no.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
It's such a hassle
because you use XRM Toolbox and
you use the Fetch XML Builderand it was a huge, long
relationship from one to theother and you have all the link
entities and then suddenly yougo oh no wait, it's the other
way around, or someone changesthe relationship.
You have to flip it on its head.
Well, actually, now Jonascreated a tool in the Xterm
toolbox that allows you to flipthat around with a click of a
(14:05):
button, which is freakingfantastic, and Jonas is here.
So if you guys like this andwant to chat with him about it
or check it out, Buy Jonas abeer.
Definitely buy.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Jonas a beer.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
So this is very cool,
and then this I haven't seen.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Okay, so this goes
under our fun section.
So you see, here in our OneNotewe do bounce around a little
bit.
When I saw this, this actuallywas really interesting.
So this is a post put out byScott Hanselman.
For those of you who maybe notknow, scott Hanselman does a
very popular podcast.
He's been running it for like athousand years.
(14:45):
Even before His podcast is soold it's older than Marcus's CRM
Rocks podcast and that podcasthas been around forever.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And he's also here.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
He is also here.
Yeah, I did see that.
So yeah, so basically whatMicrosoft is doing, so what I
started in my career withcomputers, I started writing in
BASIC on my Commodore 64, whichwas the 6502 BASIC.
Of course it was modified alittle bit.
Microsoft this past week or twohas made that open source, that
old B, old basic interpreter,kind of a, just I don't know
(15:17):
kind of a bit of a throwback,which was really interesting and
it's just kind of when I sawthat I thought, okay, this is a
fun little post.
It brings me back to my rootswhen I got my journey into
technology as well.
Who here started writing?
Who wrote?
Who's written like basic beforeback in the old?
Yeah, all the guys with grayhair mostly.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And Trish, of course,
and Trish, trish, not you, of
course.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Yeah, yeah, no gray
hair Sorry.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
And not a guy.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
last I checked, no,
no, no, I know Love you.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Alright, okay, this
I've seen pictures of this looks
like fun.
Yes, okay, this.
I've seen pictures of thislooks like fun.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yes, I've written and
I've had a dot.
Okay, I'm showing my age now.
I had a dot matrix printer.
I printed out code and tried toedit and fix what's wrong and
everything.
Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, it bringsme back.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, 100%, yeah,
right.
So actually we have a problembecause we're at the bottom of
the list.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
No, we're not.
We skipped over stuff, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yeah, okay, you look
at the stuff, but actually what
this allows us to do is open itup for questions.
Yeah, oh, yeah, wow, which wecan do.
Or we could also show oursources and go through some of
the newsletters where we get ourcontent, if we wanted to.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Right.
Does anybody have any questionsfor us or about the podcast or?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
no-transcript.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Very quiet crowd.
Oh, we do have a question howoften do you have this book up?
Yeah, so yeah, the question ishow often do we have the podcast
?
Every two weeks we publish.
It gets published on Wednesdays.
So the way our schedule isright now, we will be releasing
this episode on Wednesday.
(17:00):
And we're on YouTube, we're onSpotify, apple Podcasts and
wherever podcasts are found, andwe do have both a video and an
audio.
Well, basically it's the videoversion on Spotify and YouTube,
but we have the audio version aswell.
But, yeah, great question, andwe've been doing this podcast
(17:22):
now for since March of 2023.
So, wow, almost two years thisspring.
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
We should probably
celebrate.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yes, cake, have a
party.
So this is our.
I actually had to no, no, nowait.
So this is our.
I actually had to no, no, nowait.
I should have brought thepodcast up, but this is where
you can find us.
This is what you're looking for.
If you're looking for the logoand the site, this is where you
get all the latest episodes.
(17:58):
Yep, and I also wanted to shinea little light on some of the
sources for our content.
Karina and Daniel is actuallyhere, and Magnus, who run the
Power Platform weekly newsletter, shows up in my inbox every
Monday morning and it's full ofresources and what came out
(18:21):
lately that last week.
So this is one of the sourceswhere we find our information.
Yeah, so this is where you cansee the MyRibBent data risk
converter that Lee's Freeze made, for instance.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, and a lot of
the videos and content and
things like that.
So it's a really great resourceto kind of stay on top of
things.
So there is a lot of stuff togo through every week on that.
But I highly recommend if youhaven't already subscribed to
the Power Platform Weekly.
Also, there's on Wednesdays thePower Platform Dev Weekly,
which is very similar to thisbut really focuses more on the
(18:54):
pro development side of thePower Platform.
So just magically bring that up.
And the other thing that wetypically do too is, of course
we're we're on LinkedIn this isthe same as probably everybody
else to see what's going on.
If we see something interestinguh, come up on a on an article
there, like you see here, uh,some of those other links we
(19:16):
will grab those links, put themin the one note.
Sometimes, if we see somethingreally cool, it's almost like a
contest of who can get it intothe one note first yeah so yeah,
a few doubles this time as well.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah, yep, yeah,
that's it, I think right so I
think we're going to wrap it up,and what we usually do before
we do that is to talk aboutwhat's coming, because we're at
an event right now, um, which wehave been talking about for a
while.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, I did want to
talk a little bit about nordic
summit, so so we're here todaylive recording How's it been
your day so far with NordicSummit.
I know you are working, you'regetting badges handed out and
you're directing people andeverything.
How's it been going?
Speaker 1 (19:55):
It has been going so
smoothly, I must say, because I
am part of the organizingcommittee, but we do have 15
volunteers who do a fantasticjob, so round of applause for
them.
And so actually the work thatwe do is majority through the
year.
But of course, this is whenshe's come to shove and we need
to actually pull through, andI'm really happy about how it
(20:17):
all turned out and it's beenvery calm to be an organizer
here.
It's a lot of work, but we'reall calm and it's all working as
it should.
And, of course, if anyone wantsto contribute, we're always
looking for new people.
It's a very good experience myfavorite.
I can say that we went to dinnerThursday night and then we had
a bit too much to drink and whenwe came back, girl said okay,
so let's go in the room and dosome work.
(20:37):
And me and auntie went you arekidding, right?
And she's like, no, no, and soshe pushed us all into a room
and then we thought, okay, whatdo we do?
So we kicked our shoes off andwe bought some more drinks and
we put some music on and we weresinging and dancing and doing
all the work and it's a lot offun, and so you make friends and
you have a good time, andthat's why we're all here and
(20:58):
doing this, volunteering ourtime.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Awesome.
And you just had a session Idid with Manju and Manju's not
here, but it was part of thementoring program, which I was
really pleased to be a part ofthis year.
So we worked together on thispresentation, we did around
PowerPages and Copilots and Ithink Manju knocked it out of
the park.
Oh yeah, her demo was just spoton.
She kind of hit the high points.
(21:21):
A great job and was really andshe didn't need me there at all,
I think I was just eye candy ofsome sort.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
usually.
That's why I have you keep youaround as well.
No, I was talking to Manjuafter her session and there was
a guy coming around to say, andhe said, best session of the
conference.
Oh, wow, Okay, so I mean sheknocked it out of the park park.
Definitely, definitely, but weare not that.
You are not done.
You have more things.
You're more busy than I amtoday actually now you're doing
(21:47):
the mentoring, speed mentoringin about seven minutes.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yes, of course, and
then you also have a very
honorable work yeah, so I'll bewrapping it up with the, the
keynote, uh, about a topic I I'mvery.
Yeah, here I go already.
This is going to be a disaster.
This is going to be hard Aboutburnout in our industry and I
think a lot of us have, over theyears, have either experienced
(22:11):
it, could be in the process ofexperience it, or you could hit
it at some point.
So hopefully I can kind ofshare my journey, kind of help
people identify the warningsigns a little bit, kind of
address a little bit what we'reall feeling.
It is very personal, veryemotional I'm.
Honestly.
I am freaking out becausethere's going to be 300 people
staring at me, but I will havemy friends in the crowd, like
(22:33):
before I have done this sessionbefore and that will help me
through it.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
We love you, support
you and you're very brave for
talking about this in front ofall these people.
So that will be the closingkeynote and that will be the
last thing that happens from theorganizing part before the
mingle and drinks.
And now my computer died.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
No, just the screen
went out.
Oh, okay, yeah.
So what I do want to do,because this is the first time
we have done this podcastrecording in front of people.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
I'm going to try to
turn, see if I can.
Oh, I can.
Yeah, oh no, this is trying to.
I'm still new.
That's so nice, it's so new,but yeah, basically, yeah.
So there's everybody in thecrowd.
For those who are watching athome on Wednesday we can pretend
we did the live yeah we canpretend we did live.
Oh yeah, we did live.
So, yeah, really appreciate allyou folks coming to the session
(23:20):
today and we really appreciatethose who have been listening
over the years and hopefully tocontinue to do so.
We're evolving, we're changing,we're trying stuff out.
We're trying stuff out likethis today we look at the
podcast itself.
We deviate a lot away fromsometimes lately, away from the
(23:40):
Power Platform talk about thingsaround AI, which I think is top
of mind for everybody.
So it will always be Boost andthe reason why is because we've
branded ourselves permanentlythat it will be something,
something Boost.
It may not ever always be PowerPlatform Boost, but it will be
Boost Podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And also we have
ducks which we should have had.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
I should have had my
bag of ducks, so get me later.
We have a bag of Power PlatformBoost ducks that are not going
back to Canada with me?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yes, because his wife
doesn't want to.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Well, my wife carried
them over last, a bunch over
last time.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Yeah, for security.
I think that was a fun exercise.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
But, as always, thank
you for being like the best
podcast co-host ever.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank
you, thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you, thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you,thank you, thank you, thank you
, thank you, thank you, thankyou, thank you.
(24:44):
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Thank you for listening to thePower Platform Boost podcast
(25:05):
with your host, luric Akebek,and Nick Dolman.
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