November 20, 2019 • 57 mins
Jennie Thompson is the Foodie Podiatrist.
A practising Podiatrist for 37 years. Jennie sold her successful Podiatry practice to head out in a brand new direction.
Jennie's new mission was to open a cooking school. To show people how to cook for better health.
Jennie founded The Cooks Workshop, with a belief that by educating people about easy, nutritional, enjoyable meal and cooking options, she could promote and support healthier lifestyles.
Jennies passion is to help people eat better. By showing them how.
She still finds time to teach podiatry students at Newcastle University.
Jennie has some very helpful tips on how to manage some common foot problems. And if you have ever agonised over how to find the right Podiatrist for you? She shares some valuable pointers on how to get it right. Which could save you a lot of hassle, frustration and money.
Have ever dreamed of starting something new? Something completely different. But you worried you might have left it to late?
Well you might also enjoy Jennie's story about how she plucked up the courage to start a new business. When most people might have just sailed off into retirement. And how she has overcome many challenges. To get where she is today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Serge (00:01):
Good.
A surge here today on joined byJenny Thompson, the foodie
podiatrist.
Jenny's been a podiatrist for 37years, many of which she spent
running her own practice, uh,which recently she actually sold
and she's now gone off in acompletely different direction.
She still maintains a bit ofconnection with podiatry.
She lectures at Newcastle uni onpodiatry a couple of days a
(00:24):
week.
Uh, but recently she started anew business called the cooks
workshop.
So Jenny, welcome.
Thank you so much.
It's lovely to be here.
It's nice to have you.
It's fun.
Yeah.
Excellent.
So Jenny, I was a bit intriguedby you.
I first heard about or learnedabout you with a, an interview.
You did a podcast with TysonFranklin, who is a pretty well
(00:46):
known Australian podiatrist'swhile in productory circles
anyway, and he has a very goodpodcast actually, if anyone's
interested in podcasts,podiatrists talking to each
other, the temp.
What I found interesting aboutyour story was the fact that
you've had a long career inpodiatry, so you've got a pretty
good understanding.
You're, you're now lecturing andteaching new new people about
(01:09):
the business.
But you've also then decidedafter selling your business that
you're going to go off and dosomething completely new.
So I'm really interested to talkto you about that and what
prompted that and and whatthat's been like.
But podiatry is a big thing inour stores.
Yeah.
We have a lot of clients whocome in and they're at that
point where they're starting tohave some foot issues and
(01:30):
they're looking for solutions tothat thinking, can I get shoes
or I need shoes that are goingto do certain things for me so I
can avoid the dreaded O word,the orthotic.
Or then we have these people whocome in with these poor,
horrific orthotics that they'vebeen have been made for them by,
by people that are justimpossible to fit.
And I'm interested in yourperspective on what over the
(01:54):
years did you feel like, whatwas the reason that most people
were coming to see you when itcame to, to foot pain?
What was bringing them throughyour door?
Jennie (02:03):
It's an interesting question because it's a varied,
a very dumb situation.
The a lot of people, obviouslypain being the operative word.
Um, if you're talking aboutissues that are associated with
leg, hip, back pain are oftenthe, the last cab on the rank,
(02:25):
you know, they'd be seeingeveryone else.
And finally they come to see us,which was possibly the a bad
thing because, um, the problemhad actually become much worse
by the time they came to see us.
And we could have done a lotmore if we'd seen them earlier.
So that was one set of people,the other set of people who have
had foot pain as part of theirfoot degeneration changes in
(02:47):
their feet over the over time.
Um, so that's a different set ofpeople.
And then you have people withfoot pain that's not associated
with biomechanics, just moreassociated with clinical.
So, uh, that sort of breaks thepain down into three areas.
Um, so the, the, the clinicalone we put aside for a minute or
that's just as important.
(03:08):
The other two were oftenfootwear related because people
didn't understand the value ofsupportive footwear or how foot
worked, how it related to theirdaily activities.
Um, how weight gain made adifference, um, how health
issues affected their feet.
Um, generally.
(03:29):
So it was a lot of, uh,education, um, issues or, or, or
health literacy is a term thatwe tend to use a little bit
because people just don't knowenough about how their body
works and how it is affected bywhat they do and what they wear
and all those sort of things.
Yeah.
So it sounds like most peoplewait till they have a problem
(03:51):
before they come and see.
Yeah, I think the community isbroken down into groups of
people and there is certainsmaller percentage that are
fairly proactive about theirhealth and life in general and
they tend to be the more extrememembers of our community I
think.
Um, but I think life gets in theway and we all get busy and we
put it off and, um, I've got tosay men are probably the worst
(04:12):
at that.
Very good at avoiding voiding,having to do something about a
problem.
Yeah.
A physical problem, everything.
But yeah, so, um, we probablysaw more women in that respect
because of that.
Um, also women tended to haveissues related to foot pain that
had been homeless, hormonallyaffected during childbirth and
(04:34):
then again through menopause.
So there was issues withligament.
So those things can happen.
Things like foot pain, right?
Hormones affect, um, thesoftness of ligaments and soft
tissues.
So, and particularly if you gaina lot of weight over pregnancy
and those, how do they affect,they soften it.
So there's an influence ofsoftening, uh, on soft tissue
(04:54):
structures, which then makesthe, the foot structure less
stable in a, in a, in anutshell.
Serge (05:01):
Hmm.
So if you knew that, let's sayyou're approaching menopause or
I don't know if there's an exit,I'm not an expert on that.
We all approach it and thetrepidation, but, but if you are
approaching that in there,assuming there's some way you
can identify before you getthere, if you were to be able to
manage that hormonal process,you sign that you could then
(05:22):
manage the degeneration of thatsoft tissue or is that getting
too,
Jennie (05:26):
that's possible.
But the probable not veryprobable because people don't,
okay.
Um, we often wait till we havesymptoms and again, um, is that
just part of aging and do wereally need to change it and is
it wise to interfere and do wejust have to cop it and, and
deal with the issue?
So there is an impact whether wecould change that impact is
another question.
(05:46):
So once it happens, there'sthings you can do to, well, you
need to reassess your, your footstructure.
Uh, it's not what it was whenyou're 18.
A lot of things have happened inthe meantime too in your life.
And so your foot changes yourfoot.
What may flatten out more, itbecomes, um, perhaps, uh, the
(06:07):
end result of biomechanicalchange happens.
So you ending up with thingsthat, you know, chlorine toes,
hammer toes, banyans, um,calluses and corns, all the
impact of, um, changed footstructure over time and the
impact of footwear over time.
So, uh, it, it's important to,um, to recognize that there has
(06:31):
been change and look at yourfeet differently.
Okay.
A lot of people say that, Oh mymother had Bunyan so I'm going
to get Bunyan's or I've got thembecause I think my, you know,
it's like, thanks mom, she gaveme this a lot of things.
We thank our parents.
Fortunately I think we inheritthe predisposition to develop
Bunyan.
So we would inherit a foot typeof foot structure that a foot
(06:52):
structure that's more likely toinherit Banyan.
So a particularly hyper mobileflattish foot is quite likely to
create a Bunyan cause it becomesmore unlocked, more unstable,
and then the Bunyan forms as astabilizing mechanism.
So you wouldn't inherit that.
I, I, I don't say you inheritedBunyan inherit a predisposition
to[inaudible].
(07:13):
So you said it becomes astabilizing factor.
So I guess the fact that aBunyan forms, does that mean
your body's for me for a reason?
Absolutely.
No, no, no.
So you get deviation of bonesout in one direction and another
as a stabilizing mechanism.
And also because the foot hasbecome much more, uh, mobile in
(07:34):
the forefoot area.
So it's trying to take a grip onthe ground.
It's, it's quite a complex issuebecause it's just one way of it
happening.
So it happens as a result ofyour foot structure and the way
your foot functions.
Yeah.
And so how can fuse affect that?
Well, she's can make adifference in a positive and
negative way, so she's can offeryou more support so you don't
(07:56):
have that level of unlocking andsubluxation and, and softness
underneath the, the footwear.
It allows the deviation or thejoint changes to happen.
But it also can create problemsby exerting pressure in the
wrong places.
So ill fitting shoes canactually create problems as
well.
And juvenile Bunyan's or you'refitting what, what do you mean
(08:17):
by that?
Um, so especially with a youngperson, if you've got a shoe
that's too tight, too narrow inthe wrong places, it can
certainly, um, it can certainlyinfluence the Bunyan's to form.
So, but by you mean likerestricting certain parts of the
force.
And what about in an olderperson that so when your foot,
(08:40):
you've grown up, you, youfinished growing and your foot's
finished developing again.
The support is really importantbecause it's as we get older
than a lot of those changeshappen.
It's not necessarily, so that'sprobably a more a different
phase.
So as we've, we've stoppedgrowing and life has happened
and where we're actually puttingmore pressure on our feed in
different ways.
(09:01):
That's why I say we need to lookat the sort of footwear
differently instead of lookingat the same old shoes you've
worn because that's where peoplefall into a hole about finding a
comfortable shoe because theyoften look at the same shoe
style they've always worninstead of looking for something
that actually meets their needs.
Now where needs and what's yourtake on the whole barefoot shoe
(09:22):
thing where they have the shoesthat are, it's basically just a
bit of rubber on DIA your foot.
So it's any protection.
It's not giving you any supportat all with the idea of
activating your muscles andwhatnot.
And you know, I think there's afair bit of science out there
that supports in principle thatthis is effective and can be
good.
But I think that only applies tocertain foot types and certain
(09:43):
body types.
I'm someone who has got a veryflat pronated mobile foot is not
going to be comfortable and it'smore likely to, um, increase,
um, foot pathology and pathologyfurther up the leg.
Cause you've got to rememberthat the, the foot is the
interface between the ground andthe body.
(10:04):
And so that's where a lot ofthings happen that, uh, where
the body compensates for thingsthat are happening elsewhere.
So, um, and I think that's a,that's a really important thing
to remember as well.
So when you say mobility in thefoot, what do you mean by that?
Within the foot, as in with anyjoint in the body, there is a
specified, normal invertedcommas, range of motion for good
(10:29):
function.
Um, so some people have agreater degree of joint movement
and softness or, uh, flexibilityin soft tissues around it, the
ligaments and the muscles andjoint capsules, things like
that.
So, uh, some people havenaturally greater ranges of
(10:49):
motion in their joints and somepeople are very hypo mobile or
less mobile in their joints.
And so, um, that that's, that'sa difference.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so it makes sense then thatif, if you have a hyper mobile
foot put, when you put it in afirm shoe or a soft shoe, it's
going to have an influence onhow you, your foot's moving
around.
(11:09):
Yeah.
And then of course the rest ofyour body.
So if you've got your foot in agood stable position, then that
influences your knee position,your pelvis, your hips, your
spine.
So it goes all the way all theway up.
And it's really crucial to, um,to have stable foot wear and
that reason.
And so, I mean, what short offoot wear or orthotics will,
(11:35):
we'll get to them.
Um, what kind of things canpeople do to help manage that?
I guess in particularly in theearly stages, it's one thing,
once you've got a problem thatthere's a certain, there's a lot
of different treatments, but ifyou can start to feel you've got
issues with your feet, um, okay.
We have a lot
Serge (11:54):
of clients who go to [inaudible].
They say, Oh, I was given theseexercises to do.
People just seemed veryreluctant.
Jennie (11:59):
I was never very good at prescribing exercises because
people didn't do them.
You know, especially if you givethem too many.
Again, you break this populationdown into people that are
proactive about health andcaring for themselves and some
that, Oh no, it's too hard.
Just give me something to wearin my shoes.
Um, so you can do thestretching, strengthening, and
(12:22):
um, and footwear.
They're probably the main, themain, um, activities.
But I think it's important,perhaps early in the piece to
have an assessment of your feetand try and understand the
potential problems you mightface.
Get someone to tell you whatyour foot type is, the sort of
footwear you should be wearing,um, what will make your feet
(12:43):
worse.
Uh, how, how can you preventproblems having happening?
So I think that's a really goodidea and I think you've got to
pick who you go to see and ringand talk to them before you go
in and say, is this the sort ofhelp you can give me?
Cause podiatrists, um, like anyprofession vary in their
approach to how they,
Serge (13:02):
that's a really interesting point.
So how does someone identify agood podiatrist or the right
podiatrist for them as opposedto, I mean there's so many out
there.
How do you choose the right oneand know that they're good?
Jennie (13:15):
Okay.
So I suppose word of mouth isalways a big thing.
Don't be afraid to ring and askthem if they can help you.
Don't be afraid to get on thephone and talk to them and ask
them, even if you have to pay togo and have an appointment and
talk to them if you're not happywith what they say.
Serge (13:31):
So what kind of kind of questions should people ask?
So in terms of, I want to workout, is this podiatrist's going
to help me?
Are they the right fit for me?
Jennie (13:38):
I think you need to say out front.
Listen, I'm, I, I'm looking atbeing a bit proactive with my
feet, my children's feet,whomever, um, and trying to look
at preventing problems.
I've seen what's happened to myparents feed.
Um, see if there's any way I canavoid that happening to me in
the future.
Are you the sort of person thatcan give me an assessment now
(13:59):
and prescribed me a plan ofaction for the future?
And if they don't understandwhat you're saying, then you
move on.
Serge (14:06):
Hmm.
That's brilliant.
Cause I mean, we get like, we'llget quotes, we interview like
we're looking at doing some workat home, we're talking to
different builders.
You get different tradies togive you quotes.
But it seems like it comes toour health.
We never realized or never thinkof, you know, like I can talk to
more than one doctor.
I can talk to numerouspodiatrists, I can interview
them and choose them.
(14:26):
I don't have to just take
Jennie (14:27):
absolutely.
You interview them.
That's the way.
And it's like, it's, it's aprevention strategy strategy.
It's like, um, where I'm at nowwith my, my, my new career or
new area of interest is thatit's prevention.
It's prevention and earlyintervention and management
taking a proactive role in yourlife instead of sitting on the
sidelines and waiting for thingsto fall off.
Serge (14:49):
Hmm.
Yeah.
That's interesting
Jennie (14:52):
cause I know a complaint that I know a lot of my clients
have is that I think it's, it'sa really, it's a big issue.
I think particularly for malepodiatrist, there seems to be a
lot of male podiatrists andaround footwear they have a very
one dimensional view of what youshould wear.
Absolutely.
Interesting.
And I, because with women, theydon't have a concept, they don't
(15:14):
have that innate knowledge offootwear.
Working with the O wordorthotics and women, it can be
an absolute nightmare because weall wear so many different types
of shoes, seasonal changes, men,couple of pairs at the end
you've got to fit them in.
That's usually no problem.
So men and orthotics was alwaysa great thing to do because
there wasn't a problem.
Women, often it came, you knowyou're treating their problem
(15:37):
often came down to a combinationof things.
So really footwear was reallycrucial.
And you know, I used to talk tothem about the sort of shoes and
what they'd be looking for in ashoe.
And I always gave them thatadvice.
Go and try everything on, stoplooking at the same same shoe
that you've always worn.
Try everything on in the shopand find out what's comfortable
cause that's what it comes backto.
(15:57):
If you feel stable andcomfortable then it's probably
the right shoe for you.
But trying to understand whatstable and comfortable feels
like is something that somepeople have never had.
Cause I've always worn thongs,I've always worn floppy ballet
flats or something.
So in introducing them tosupportive footwear, which
doesn't have to be ugly orhorrible, it can be quite a new
(16:17):
thing for them.
Okay.
So you said stability there.
That's cause that's notnecessarily something people
think about comfort, but theydon't necessarily think about
well am I stable?
Stability equals comfort in myhead.
I know for my shoes it does.
If, if my foot, if my foot baseis not feeling stable, then I'm
not going to be stable all overas I'm walking around.
Particularly when you're talkingabout older people, falls risks,
(16:40):
issues with diabetes where theyhave developed complications
like vascular and neurologicalproblems.
So they've perhaps lost feelingin their feet, those sorts of
things.
It's really important that theyhave safe and supportive
footwear.
So the challenges that they'renot horrific looking shoes and
this is a lot of people have intheir head that it's like I
(17:01):
never have to wear sensibleshoes and sensible equals ugly.
And you do get a smallpercentage of people that come
and don't and kill it lookslike, I just want to be
comfortable.
I just want to get out of pain.
So there's that, that group ofpeople, I love them.
They're easy to fix.
It's the ladies that come in andthey used to used to wearing a
court shoe that has no supportand um, you know, you look at
(17:21):
them in the shoe and there'sthis massive gap between where
the arch of their foot is andwhere the shoe finishes in.
And if they don't have a conceptof a good fitting shoe and
perhaps they've never been to adecent shoe store.
And that is another problem withshoe stores is finding somebody
that's not there to sell you ashoe, but someone that actually
understands your needs, you canactually find something that's
(17:43):
gonna work for you.
Yes.
And like you said earlier, givesyou an opportunity to try
things.
Yes.
Serge (17:50):
That's so important.
I mean it's something that we'realways talking about in store.
It's just try things on youdon't like, you don't have to
like everything we know youwon't like everything.
That's not the purpose of it.
You can always take them offagain.
I mean you're the customer atthe end of the day and you, it's
you, you want, you have to buysomething unless you've tried,
tried them on.
And so just go in there and doit.
(18:12):
Just do it.
Yeah.
And I think sometimes peoplefeel like they can look and get,
I can tell what will look goodor what'll work for me or what
weight or they're too narrow.
They're too high.
They're the point.
Cause I've done it a hundredtimes and I know now what shoes
worked for me, but there's a lotof people that haven't got a
clue now and there's also footfoot wear has changed so much
that you know the design andshape of things have changed.
(18:35):
A fine Tozer.
Perfect example.
Years ago you'd put yourselfinto a fine toed shoe pointy
shoe and you were squashed inthere.
It was uncomfortable.
Now lasting is improved so thatjust because it's got a fine tie
pointy toe, it shouldn't beuncomfortable.
It still should fit you, but youwon't know that unless you try
it on.
Of course not every shoe isgoing to work, but and safe
shoes tend to not necessarilyfollow that probably.
(18:57):
No, and that's because thereality is we shoes, the work is
in the lasting, which isessentially the mold of how a
shoe is made around.
That's where the effort goesinto making sure it fits and
that's what you pay for when youinvest in good shoes.
It's that, you know, anyone cango off and knock off a high end
shoe in a, in a, you know, afactory, but they don't spend
(19:19):
the time to get the lastingright, which is what made it so
comfortable.
So they'll look all right, butthey just won't feel that.
And that's, that's reallyimportant.
Trying things on.
But that's really useful.
If it's, it's thinking, well,when I try it on, what am I
thinking about?
Yes, it's comfortable.
Is it stable and how does myfoot feel in it?
Jennie (19:37):
And that's the, that's the advantage of going into a
store and trying mini shoes onso that you start to see the
difference you can, Oh, that'swhat she means.
That's what comfortable feelslike.
That's what stable feels like.
My, my heels not rolling around.
I'm getting support under thearch.
I've got plenty of comfort underthe ball of my foot.
My toes aren't.
Serge (19:59):
Okay.
So you and you, so you, you feelrelaxed and natural when you
walk, is that
Jennie (20:04):
yeah, absolutely.
You can, you walk off and you'renot feeling, you're not wobbling
around.
Yes.
And, and I think back, you know,this is totally just could to
me, is you look at some of thefootwear of the women in the
early or prior to the prior tothe first war if you like.
(20:26):
And women all wore very sort ofsensible, quite often lace up
shoes.
There was, you know, and nowthey could have been dressy, but
there were still on a similarformat.
And I think that probably wasum, a good thing.
Serge (20:42):
Yeah.
In a sense.
So the fact that they were lacedup the head support, they'll
robust, they could run around inthem.
That's
Jennie (20:47):
right.
Cause they only often had onepair of shoes anyway.
Okay.
And so that's what they wore allthe time.
And I think, and especially ifyou look at domestic staff in
movies of the old days,wandering around castles and
serving the ladies andgentlemen, it was, they all wore
sensible shoes.
They were on their feet all thetime.
And uh, and I think we've sortof got away from that.
(21:09):
And I think in Australia,certain climate change, climate
effect here it's, it's not thatcold.
Most of the time we don't wanderaround in the snow.
We don't do all of those things,so we tend to opt for more
casual footwear and we wantthings that are open like we'd
like.
There's this whole big sneakerthing is a is a big fashion
trend at the moment, which isgreat, but in summer you don't
(21:31):
always want to be wrapped up ina sneaker.
Especially I find sandals a bigproblem because I, I think a
sandal really with a closed inback is ideal and yet that's
really hard to find.
Just stabilizes your heel and ifyou stabilize that rear foot
component of your foot, then thewhole thing going forward will
(21:52):
be much more stable and you willfeel much better and you're not
foot stop flopping about becausethen again, if you stabilize
stabilizing that rear foot, therest of your body is more stable
so it holds a position well,which is the whole point of an
orthotic if you like, is to putyour foot back into that.
Well, a good functioningposition to allow us to ability
(22:12):
and good, uh, non pathologicalposture, well economical as far
as energy goes, posture so thatyou, uh, you function much, much
better.
So when you say economical, youmay say your body's not working
too hard.
Absolutely.
Yes.
So how is it that forethought Xcan vary so widely?
(22:34):
Interesting question.
You know, I go back many, many,many years ago when I started my
training and uh, in those dayswe made inner souls, they were
called and they were built froma flat device and we sort of
built pieces on them toaccommodate what needed to be
done for the patient these days.
And then towards the end of mytraining training, the, the, um,
(22:59):
the solid molded orthotic cameinto being that we see now where
it's actually made from aplastic cast of a foot.
And these days, uh, don't startme, but they, um, also there's
the, the scanned variety.
Okay.
So what you scan the foot, scanthe foot and or cast, but mostly
scan the foot and that goes offto a company with a manufactured
(23:23):
computer generated.
And that's a whole nother story.
Okay.
Don't start me.
As I said.
Um, so the, the, so thenorthotic started to change.
And so you've got people thathave trained with various levels
of understanding and howorthotics made the SA, the whole
(23:46):
research around viral mechanics.
That's the study of how we move,um, biomechanics and foot health
has evolved over time.
And so you've got a lot ofpractitioners out there coming
from different levels ofunderstanding about orthotics
and biomechanics.
Uh, and so that's why it's soimportant as, uh, any health
professional to stay up to dateand, and keep understanding
(24:08):
what's changing and disagree oragree it as, as, as you will.
Um, and so that's part of thereason we see such a difference
in, we also see poorcraftsmanship, good
craftsmanship.
We also see money over care andconcern.
(24:31):
So I think that some people arejust, um, very much more focused
in, in what comes in the door.
And that goes for across theboard anyway in any profession
and meant any business.
So I think I always tried togive the best service and if I
(24:52):
prescribed something that wasn'tworking, I was always happy to
change it, rearrange it, dosomething different.
Some people don't do that.
And I also think that you need asense of, I think what's really
important with prescribing, andthis is something that um,
patients need to be aware of iswhen they do go for their
appointment, makes sure thatthey get a really thorough
(25:14):
history that taken, that thepodiatrist really understands
them and how they function, whattheir needs are on a daily
basis, what then their clinicalneeds are.
You know, lots of goodassessments, um, tests done
while they're there to determinethe physical needs, but also the
sort of footwear they're like orneed to wear, whether it be for
(25:35):
work commitments, et cetera.
Um, sort of leisure activitiesthey do because they will may
need two or three differentpairs because the sort of shoe
you put an orthotic into willagain impact on the
effectiveness of that orthotic.
So if you put a verycontrolling, very rigid
controlling orthotic device intoa shoe that is also very rigid
(25:59):
and controlled with lots ofbuilt in correction, you
actually going to create anovercorrection.
Okay.
So I always on on most occasionswould say to somebody if they're
having an orthotic device to geta neutral shoe that's built on a
neutral last, not a correctiveshoe.
And then again see that thing.
I think a lot of people get awaywith the right footwear and
(26:21):
don't necessarily need anorthotic if they will go and get
the right shoes.
Serge (26:25):
Okay.
And so it sounds like going backto what you said earlier about
actually interviewing apodiatrist to talk to them about
how they're going to work withyou.
They should be asking you theright questions in terms of your
lifestyle.
So it's all well and good iflike if you work in a corporate
environment, you have to wearcertain
Jennie (26:44):
types of shoes or you feel that's important for you to
wear them.
How can we make you comfortable?
And you know, we can't fixeverybody and sometimes you just
have to say, look, unless youcan change your footwear, we
can't do anything more, but youcan play with it.
We can put things inside theshoe that little wedges and
things like that inside aparticular shoe to make that
(27:06):
shoe more more functional.
Especially if someone has anorthotic for that shoe and maybe
a good pair of shoes that meetsthe needs here.
Then tinker with the some oftheir special occasion shoes to
try and make them morecomfortable as well.
Yeah, and so because one thingpeople worry about is I have to
wear these orthotics and I knowfor whatever reason they've
(27:26):
accepted there, but then theyfeel like I've, I'm going to a
wedding, I'm going to a functionwhere maybe I'm dressing up like
I don't normally, but I need tobe able to put my thoughts in
this shoe.
So I always say 80% of the time.
Okay.
For the most patients, somepeople have extreme needs and
they need them all the time.
Yeah.
Because it's difficult.
(27:46):
If you feel like, well, there'sa difference between saying in
some productions, say you haveto wear them all the time and
people will take that veryliterally.
But if you go into it like wecall them bar shoes or you're
going to walk from the taxi tothe bar and sit down, you know,
we all have them in our water,you're not going very far.
And that is right.
And that's exactly what I say to, to patients.
(28:08):
Don't, don't stress over thistoo much.
You know, it's, it's importantthat you're comfortable and
getting the right support for,for everyday activities.
If you're going out for dinner,as you just said, it's a lot of
sitting down and I look at someof these girls and nightclubs
and don't know how they do it.
I couldn't dance in some ofthose shoes, but they seem to
manage it.
Maybe they're numbed and so isit because some people say, I'm
(28:34):
used to wearing heels and Ican't go into flats.
So the people have the oppositeproblem.
Sometimes if they always were inparticularly high heels that
their muscles get used to it andthen they can develop problems
when they go out of heels.
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's true.
Because if someone's wearing aheel all the time, the the leg
muscles in the back of the legcan shorten over time so that
when they try and go downbarefoot or into our flat shoe,
(28:58):
they get, can get symptoms ofpain in the backs of their legs
and the Achilles tendon and, andthen, uh, also plantar
fasciitis.
So they need to, if it's a hugechange, then obviously they need
to, um, try and do somestretching in adept that most
people that wear heels, and I'mone of them, I wear a little bit
of a heel.
I'm much more comfortable.
(29:19):
I cannot, the structure of myfoot, I cannot go totally flat.
I roll into much are much morecomfortable with a little bit of
a heel.
Okay.
And I know that, so that's whatI do.
And so for a podiatrist tounderstand better about you, it
sounds like they've got to askyou the right questions.
And you also said about thempeople keeping up on, you know,
(29:40):
they been trained
Serge (29:42):
sometime ago when the technology's changed.
Thinking's changed obviously alot.
Jennie (29:46):
It's evolved over.
I was pretty smart, you know, hego, I surrounded myself with
young people.
I used to have a number ofemployees coming through the
door and it didn't turn overmassively, but I would always be
able to access information thatwas current from current staff
as well as doing my[inaudible]updated by myself
Serge (30:08):
without normal.
I mean how normal is it forpodiatrists to be reading peer
reviewed journals and new re newresearch papers and keeping up
to date on them?
Jennie (30:17):
Well, I think you'll find that it's actually fairly
reasonably widespread thatpeople do that there is a demand
for registration and we havecertain amount of CPD points
each year, which continuingeducation.
So yes, there's a criteria setby the registration board, by
our PRA that States we must dothis, this and this to maintain
(30:39):
our registration, which I thinkshould be across the board in
most professions.
And I think it is in, I know itis in any of the medical
professions you need to do that.
Um, and, and that's the otherthing, choosing a podiatrist.
A lot of podiatrists these daystend to Naish themselves.
So they will choose tospecialize even if it's
unofficially their specialtybecomes something they're good
(31:01):
at.
So they work with children orthey work with, um, people with,
um, spinal difficulties, youknow, all sorts of, um, areas
that people can actuallyinitiate themselves into.
So that's another thing too, tothink about what your problems
are, um, and find out if thatpodiatrists you're going to be
said, um, has, has value tooffer.
(31:23):
They're also, I think, visitingtheir website.
If they don't have a website,then I'd be a little bit
concerned because it doesn't, tome, it doesn't mean they're,
they're up to date.
They're probably, I'm justrelying on what's gone by in the
past.
And getting along.
I think they, any business todayreally needs to have a website
(31:43):
that tells you about themselves,tells you what they're trying to
achieve, gives you information.
Serge (31:49):
Okay.
So you can make a bit of anassessment and so you'd, you'd,
you'd lecturing at uni,Newcastle,
Jennie (31:57):
yeah.
Working in the clinical areawith the students.
And I just love it.
It's just a wonderful way ofgiving back end.
It's just, it's reallyinteresting cause it gives me
some perspective.
I should've done it earlier in away while I was still working,
um, of what the students comeout of uni knowing and not
knowing.
I always had students come to mypractice on placement from two
(32:18):
different unis, Western Sydneyand Newcastle.
So I always liked working withstudents.
It's, uh, it's, it's greatinfluencing them with the
knowledge that I've gleaned overthe years.
Hmm.
Serge (32:28):
Yeah.
Hmm.
And have you noticed, has therebeen a change in the type of
people that are going intopodiatry or the, their attitudes
to the profession in terms ofthose young people?
I think he's
Jennie (32:40):
definitely seemed more, more guys going in these days.
And we did in our day.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Um, it's
Jennie (32:48):
a lot of sports interested people.
There's quite a crossover thesedays in allied health, podiatry,
physio, exercise physiology, yousort of, there's a lot of common
ground there.
Yeah.
So you'll find people sort ofveering in different directions,
but in with a lot of the samemotivation.
So a lot of people areinterested in sports, podiatry,
(33:09):
a lot of the guys particularly[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Mmm.
Jennie (33:14):
I S I always say if you don't have empathy, you
shouldn't be in the profession.
And I see the students and Ilook at them and I think you'll
do fine and you, you're going tostruggle because you need to be
able to get in a connection witha patient by the end of that
first consultation.
And that's what I try and tellthem.
Don't look at the paper, look atthem, look at them, talk to
(33:35):
them.
Um, find a common, commonsubject to talk about.
Create a connection.
I think that's it.
Serge (33:43):
Is that something that they're taught in the universe
apart from you havingcompensation?
It's up to their individualteachers to take it.
Jennie (33:51):
Yeah.
That's, I think that's justsomething that comes from
experience and it's just, it'sall about communication and that
is something that you can applyto many aspects of business.
If you're talking aboutmarketing or anything like that.
It's, it's how do you relate tothat person and how can you make
(34:12):
a difference in their life andwhat have you got to offer them.
And I think if you live yourlife thinking, what can I do for
you?
It always comes back eventuallyto someone gives something for
you.
So it's empathy, understand, bekind.
Serge (34:26):
And is that, I mean you're in, you had your own
business for many years andyou've obviously had, you trade
it away and so then you, yousold your business, is that
right?
And I don't know, now I've lostcheck of the block of time.
It must be 18 months if notmore.
Okay.
(34:46):
Yeah.
And then you had this great ideaof, rather than just sailing off
into the sunset and maybe doinga little bit of teaching that
you'd go and start a brand newbusiness doing something
completely.
Jennie (34:56):
Oh, whatever ration that was.
No.
Serge (34:59):
Tell me hat.
How did you get to that headspace?
Jennie (35:02):
It took me eight months of bumming around thinking, what
am I going to do now?
I need a job, but I don't reallywant to go and work in another
podiatry clinic, and so I hadsome ideas and I
Speaker 3 (35:16):
mm.
And this,
Jennie (35:19):
so I was watching television one night and it was
set in Canada.
This lady had set up a awesomeevent space in the country and
it was in a big barn.
It was great for weddings andthings.
That's great.
Then I saw she opened up herkitchen and created cooking
classes and I thought, Hmm,that's what I'm going to do
(35:41):
because my awareness of theissues with food, particularly
for my diabetic patients, butgenerally anyone with chronic
disease that could be impactedby diet, that was huge out
there.
People would, diabetics would goand see their dietician, they'll
go and see a diabetes educatorthat see their specialist.
They'd be told what to eat, butthere was no one showing them
(36:03):
how to do it and put that in thesame on the same side as the
loss of cooking skills that wehave developed over the last
couple of generations wherepeople are not handing it down.
Cooking is a life skill.
It's something you do to say tostay alive.
If you've got no one else to doit for you, you have to learn
(36:23):
how to do it.
And um, I learned to cook mymom's knee then I did and I had
a natural interest in it.
So I did more cooking classesoutside of the, and in school I
taught my children all to cookand I thought that was what
everyone did, but I was wrong.
And I looked around and realizedthere was a huge issue with lack
of skill or an end nutrition inthe community.
(36:45):
So my idea was I would open acooking school and help these
people to learn how to cook forbetter health.
So you were, you kind of had ahealth rather than just being a
nice idea, a recreational thingthat it was like there's a
health focus.
It was always that health focusand the journey has taken the
usual, um, turns and windingroad, um, until I finally come
(37:09):
back and worked out my target,um, market as far as who needs
me and what I want to provide.
So we have fun classes, we haveinteresting cuisines, we do some
cake decorating.
All of those things I can offeras well.
But my main focus now is toprovide, um, empowerment for
people around cooking healthyand tasty meals for themselves.
(37:30):
Okay.
And so you said that peopleoften, if I have health things
like diabetes, they're going andseeing nutritionists and medical
people who are saying, youshould eat this, you should do
that, but they don't know how toactually put that into.
And you find people tend to eatthe same from a narrow parameter
of food choices.
(37:52):
Um, or whether that be foodstyles, ingredients, um, whether
it be takeaways, a lot ofprepackaged food and prepared
food, which has a lot of, sorry,hidden fats and sugars that you
have to be and not only hiddenfats and sugars, but incredible
amount of um, processing and,and added ingredients that may
(38:16):
or may not be good for you.
So my whole idea is to justbreak it back, bring it back to
simple.
It's not that hard.
It's not hard.
Just start to understand whatyou need to eat and how to eat
it.
So the government guidelines,there's a, a beautiful plate
that they've, they've got rid ofthe old pyramid.
(38:37):
Okay.
So guidelines around diet is nowthat you should have half your
plate with fruit and veg withvegetables, a quarter with
protein and the other quarter isyour carbs.
And um, I think fats in there,but I've forgotten where it
fits.
Uh, so your carbs being some ofyour carb vegetables as well as
your pass to your rice as well,corn, those sorts of things.
(38:59):
And I'm living that because Ifigured if I tried to tell
people to do it, I need to liveit.
So it's a really big deal.
It's hard to fill that half aplate with vegetables, but I'm
really making an effort to makesure that what I'm off what I'm
suggesting is possible.
And only 1% of Australians liveby the Australian dietary
guidelines and, and I can sortof see why none of us need to be
(39:21):
perfect.
We just need to start moving inthe right direction.
So that's, that's where I'm at.
Um,
Speaker 4 (39:28):
it's, it's[inaudible] .
Jennie (39:31):
It's amazing how many people, I agree when you start
talking about diet, I, you know,my diet is not so good or I am,
Oh no, I don't eat thatvegetable.
I've never tried that.
Oh, is that nice?
I have never had that one.
I mean, it's just amazing how weget stuck in, in the ruts of
food.
(39:51):
What do you think stops peoplefrom trying different things
that they suggest that not whatstops people doing anything?
I don't know.
Not knowing.
I know actually I think I doknow not knowing what to do with
it.
Not knowing how to, how toincorporate it and how to
prepare it.
Yes.
I think that's quite often theproblem.
And you get issues when you'recooking for a family.
(40:13):
People don't like this.
People don't like that.
And my husband doesn't likethis.
My wife doesn't like that.
So you T again, they, thechoices become narrower.
So that influences what you endup eating.
Cause you think, well I don'twant to cook for me, I just want
to cook whatever on all eightand I have to just, whoever's
doing the cooking aid has tofeed in or they say, well you're
just going to eat it causethat's what I want.
(40:34):
[inaudible] you've got to havearguments and that's right.
It creates a stress.
So people end up the path ofleast resistance and end up
where they were.
So it's a lot of it's education.
It's a lot of, it's, I'm reallybig, I'm really big on flavor,
texture and taste so that itcreates, uh, a desire to
implement these things.
(40:54):
And Oh, that's fantastic.
And that didn't take me long didit enough.
I find that having some, some ofour classes, cause you do a lot
of healthy classes as well.
Um, I just love that look onpeople's face when they taste
something they've made that was,wasn't that difficult and isn't
innately healthy.
Hmm.
Mmm Hmm.
No, that light that we're diet,I think healthy eating, it's
(41:16):
food to feed our bodies.
It's food that sustain life.
That's what it's about is givingourselves the right balance.
And of course we all havesometimes foods that's normal
and that's how we know.
That's fine.
We'll go out for dinner andenjoy it.
But if you spend the rest ofyour time doing some times or
doing the good then, then that'sfine.
And you're going to be on a muchbigger, a better path to health
(41:37):
and longevity.
So if you can do it right mostof the time.
Yeah.
Like anything in life, isn't it?
The reverse of moderation.
Yes.
Yeah.
And it's, it's interestingbecause I, I just don't, um,
I've forgotten what I was goingto say.
You'll have to edit that out.
That's right.
No editing here.
(41:58):
Um, but so what also interestsme is that, that you decide, I
mean, you had this idea that'sone thing and you might have
chosen to make some lifestylechanges yourself at some point,
but you thought, no, I'm goingto go and make a business out of
it.
Oh, I know, Gary, isn't it?
What was it that gave you thatconfidence to actually do it
rather than just think about,well, just believing I could.
(42:21):
Um, it's possibly a bit of adownfall of mine.
I just think, Oh, I can do thatand so off I go and do it and my
husband's rolling his eyes andI'm thinking, Oh my goodness.
And it's very rarely scary causeI'm funding this myself and fast
running out of money.
But it's just a matter of doingit.
And I was naive, Lee thoughtit'll just all happen.
(42:42):
And so then you hit that slump afew months down the track I
think, Hmm, they're not coming,what's going on?
So then you realize that youhave a lot more work to do.
It's very different to running abusiness that was established
and sort of ran itself in a lotof ways.
This is different and that, butthey're not, you turn that into
something exciting.
And so you start the idea ofnetworking and what's networking
(43:04):
really.
What is that?
And then you explore the optionsavailable to you and you try and
align yourself with the rightpeople.
Find people on LinkedIn thatmatched with your, um, your
ideas.
I entered a businesscompetition, which I was lucky
enough to win it.
And this was a turning point forme because during that
(43:25):
competition we had to redo ourbusiness plans and define our
target market.
And I realized at that time thatI had, cause I was trying to
feed to do too many differenttypes of needs.
So it might, I thought I've gotto pull this back to where my
passion is.
My passion is to help people eatbetter.
So I was approached by one ofthe judges at the end of that
(43:47):
competition and she said, Ithink we need to work together.
Collaboration is a wonderfulthing.
So then she is the CEO of Nedoat st Mary's, which is a, um, an
organization that manages amongother things disability care
homes.
So they manage care homes forpeople who have generally, um,
(44:10):
intellectual disability.
And she was concerned at thequality of the food being served
to the residents.
And the problem being that therewas no training around cooking.
The people that were caring forthem were also cooking for them
without necessarily Ninjaattritional or cooking skills.
Probably more about what's easy.
(44:31):
What's quick.
What's the bottom line though,is that the residents make the
decision about what they eat.
So if they want KFC, right, theyget it.
So the issue was quite complex.
It was to teach, to teach andmake aware the support workers
knew about nutritional and basiccooking skills, but also ways
(44:56):
that they can work with theresidents to encourage them to
make healthy food choices.
And that's quite complex.
So we, we developed a program, Igot hold of a dietician, we put
it together and we've nowcompleted the training of their
support workers.
We had up to 60 people to train,did that through workshops, two
workshops each and now we'reexcited to go to the next phase
(45:19):
where we're actually going intothe houses and we're going to
work directly with theresidents.
Wow.
Okay.
One to two and you can see whatit's like to actually implement
what you've created and, and,and yeah, and give them, because
a lot, most of the thingsactivities done in care homes is
to stimulate and improve levelsof independence for these
(45:41):
people.
So this is a life skill and Ithink it's a really important
thing to, for them to learn.
And it's going to be, I'm reallyexcited because a lot of them
already like cooking, butcooking is a creative, intuitive
thing for a lot of people.
And that's how I'm an intuitivecook.
I cook because I feel it.
(46:02):
And regardless of level ofdisability, people can also have
that level of intuition.
And we're also looking to, tofind those people in these
groups to see if we can then doongoing classes as part of
their, their leisure or theircontinuing education.
So I'm looking to try andconnect with other disability
care agencies, um, who want usto do the same for them because
(46:25):
I think no one is, there's noone doing it.
And it's a huge niche.
And the regulations by thegovernment do say that residents
in care homes should be fedaccording to Australian national
guidelines.
And uh, I don't think that'snecessarily happening.
So that's interesting thatyou've ended up there from where
you started with this ID andthrough putting yourself out
(46:47):
there and you, you said youentered a competition, um, which
you won.
And then that triggered youmeeting somebody who then said,
Hey, we need to talk.
It's taking all those individualsteps has enabled you to get to
where you are.
And it sounds like you've got a,you know, it's so exciting.
(47:07):
It is so exciting.
I to the point, I had a contactfrom a lady called dr Megan
checkup, who's a medicalnutritionist and she's got an
incredibly interesting, she hasa PhD in molecular biology.
She ran research labs atWestmead hospital and cancer
research.
She's done lots of things.
You now as a young child andshe's chosen to open up a
nutritional based clinic andshe's approached me and we're
(47:30):
working, collaborating togetherto create a workshops next year
around all these needs aboutchronic disease and managing
health and seasonal health andseasonal issues, gut health, all
of those sort of things.
Um, so that's really exciting.
So, and someone else contactedme recently who's managers,
(47:52):
dietician for bariatric health,for people who are having
bariatric surgery and she'd liketo implement some workshops.
That's where you have stomachsreducing sleep and that sort of
thing.
So quite interesting way to,they end up only being able to
eat small portions, but we stillwant them to be lovely and tasty
(48:14):
and still very nice.
So, and ma also, if you onlyhaving small portions, making
sure that your nutritionalbalance is right is really
important.
Getting enough of what you'dneed.
Absolutely.
So yeah, we're looking togetherto work together as well.
So these people are coming at meand it's fantastic.
It's so exciting.
Yeah,
Serge (48:31):
that's amazing.
So, I mean if you were to, totell people, like if someone's
got this idea of their ownbusiness and they're thinking
they're at a point in their lifewhere it's, it's do or die at
home, it's now or never like ifI'm going to do it, what are the
first kind of steps that youwould say that again to help
them kind of get started?
Jennie (48:49):
Okay.
So obviously do your research.
I think the really importantthing is to find a niche.
Find something someone's notdoing because otherwise your
competition is much, muchbigger.
Absolutely.
Find something.
And if even if you have aproduct that's fairly common,
find a way of presenting it ormarketing that has a point of
(49:12):
difference.
And as you said earlier, youhave points of difference with
your footwear.
Uh, I think that's, and whatyou're doing here is a point of
difference.
So you have to try and separateyourself from the herd a little
bit.
Um, and I'm running, running,running against the wind, but
I'm really trying hard to stayfocused and to follow my dream.
(49:35):
So I think stick with it.
If you really think, if you canafford it, make sure you do the
numbers first.
That's really important.
Um, be realistic about yournumbers.
Most of us don't do all of that.
We just run in with an idea andsay, let's do it.
Which is fine.
If it was my husband who's amuch more, um, sort of a logical
(49:59):
progression of things with him,he, he would be a lot, probably
do things a lot more, but thenhe may never ever do it either
because it looked a bit too, tooproblematic.
You can overanalyze it.
And that's my positive and mynegative thoughts.
I'm not sure what, which it is.
Sometimes it's great that I jumpin with both feet.
Sometimes it's silly, but not tobe a got lost.
(50:20):
What have you got to lose?
Sorry.
Serge (50:21):
Okay, well you're not left wondering.
Oh, I wonder if I wa you'llknow.
Jennie (50:25):
And you know what, Eagle , someone had to start doing
something, someone had to startmaking a change, so let it be
me.
Yeah.
Serge (50:33):
And so, um, it's, it's interesting that we often have
these ideas.
Um, you would do and you think,okay, I can see opportunities
here.
I can see a direction that Icould go in, but it's, it's
taking those first steps can bevery, very daunting.
(50:53):
And you said that you use thingslike LinkedIn.
You started trying to connectwith people online and through
different networking things toput it out there, what you're
doing and connect with people.
And so as a consequence, it'slike you're taking, you've met
all these scientific basednutritionists and,
Jennie (51:10):
and shifts.
I found a lot of chips that waybecause I started with more.
I just started with what I couldfind.
So, Oh yes, I'd be interested todo a class, come on, let's do a
class.
You know, and it's sort ofthing.
So you work through, um, workingwith different people and then
you find people you have synergywith and as you start to settle
down, you find the people thatyou need to make your business
(51:32):
what it wants, what you want itto be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
And who knows where it'll go.
I don't know.
Isn't it funny?
I'm not getting any younger.
And, uh, but that's neverbothered me either.
I'd just get on with it becausealways everyone's got something
to offer.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Yeah.
Excellent.
So
Serge (51:53):
you've still kept your connection with podiatry?
Um,
Jennie (51:56):
I think, um, I've been at it for too long to let that
go.
Um, but I definitely don't thinkI'd want to go back to clinic.
I'm really happy at doing,working with students.
I think it's wonderful.
Serge (52:07):
And do you, have you found this new awareness that
you're building all the timearound nutrition and food and
with what you're doing and theidea of preparing meals for
people and fine tuning thatprocess when you go back to the
clinics with your students, isthat influencing how you're
talking to them?
Jennie (52:26):
That's a really interesting question.
And I have to say yes, not justabout food, but about
communication using this, the,some of the skills I've either
had before or I've honed more orjust the things I've learned
about communicating and, andnetworking and talking to
people.
Um, I had to do a talk to thestudents about going into
(52:47):
private practice as soon as theygraduated and whether or not to
do it.
And so a lot of those thingscame into play.
It's, it's, it's, it's, I thinkthat is a mistake myself for
them to do that straight away.
And it's like impartingknowledge around the growth that
I've had through this journey asmuch as the growth that I had
through my podiatry journey.
Yes, absolutely.
(53:08):
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's, they're still connectedand it's, it's again, something
great to talk to people.
Sorry.
Surge.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
Okay.
Serge (53:23):
Sorry I've interrupted you there.
Now you've lost your train ofthought.
Jennie (53:29):
So we'll leave everyone guessing what they were laughing
at.
Cause it's good to have a littlebit of mystery in your life.
I'm not perfect.
Thank you.
Yeah, so it's, it's, it's agreat connector with the
students as well to talk aboutwhat I'm doing outside of
podiatry and it sort of showsthem that life's can go in all
directions.
(53:50):
Yeah.
That's when you least expect it.
But if you have a go, if youhave a can you take that action
and that's the, that's thereally important.
A lot of people don't have a go.
I look at a lot of people I knowand I, cause I think people say,
Oh, you know, you're doingreally well.
It's fantastic.
And I think what is it?
Why?
Why do I have a go and whysomeone else who had the same
(54:13):
idea doesn't have a go.
And I dunno, it's just ournature I suppose.
Well what is it that you thinkis like, I would imagine you
would have had people said toyou, I could be wrong here, but
I would imagine when you startedtelling people that you're going
to do this, I would've thought,wow, that's amazing, but you
know, I couldn't do that.
Or I think it's amazing you'redoing it because for me it's
(54:34):
just seems like too much or toodifficult or that is true.
That's the sort of stuff youwould get said.
What is it, do you think peopleare like, if you know why I
think it is many, a number ofyears ago I had to do an
analysis.
I was in a, um, uh, uh, coachingprogram and we had to come up
(54:54):
with our why.
Okay, why am I doing what I'mdoing?
And of course there's always thecliched cause I cared cause all
of these things.
And then I broke it down andit's because I like to problem
solve and, and I think aboutmost of my life, it's all based
on problem solving, evenbringing up kids.
It's how can I make thatsolution happen?
(55:15):
How can I achieve that in thebest pot with the best possible
outcome?
And so I think that's what itcomes down to.
It's just my desire to createchange, my desire to make
something happen and find a wayto do that.
I think that's, maybe that'sjust because I'm a problem
solver.
I like to problem solve andsound good at it, but I like to
problem solve.
(55:36):
Well, it's a good start.
It's amazing what you can getgood at.
I've had an incredible journey.
There's been so many down days,I think I can't do this anymore.
I just can't keep trying.
It's not going to work.
And then somehow you just get upand you get going and have a
good night's sleep and you trywhen you're having those
moments, like what, what, whatdo you do?
Something?
(55:56):
Action.
Action is the cure.
You know, you do something, goand meet somebody, go to a
meeting, cut across that.
Um, that sense of um, panic andfear and do something.
Action is the solving.
Hmm.
Hmm.
That's good advice.
Thank you.
Surge.
And so if people wanted toconnect with you, ah, Cox
(56:18):
workshop.com.
Dot.
EU is, um, so we're on Facebook,we're on LinkedIn, we're on
Instagram, we have our ownwebsite.
I welcome anyone that wants tobe involved in creating change
amongst positive diet.
Um, I also want people who wantto come along to our classes, um
(56:39):
, developing this program withdoc checkup, which will start
next.
It'll be once a month for 10months.
It's set up over a wholeroutine.
So we've got a number ofprograms in the pipeline.
If they just want to come andhave some fun and learn about
Thai finger food.
We do beautiful classes likethat with some lovely people as
well.
We teach healthy plant basedmeals.
We teach, um, talking abouthealthy desserts as well as cake
(57:03):
decorating.
So there's something foreverybody.
Um, but there's plenty ofoptions on our website and I'm
just at the moment putting up,working on next year's
offerings.
So, but anyone that seem in theindustry of, um, anyone that
works with supporting peoplethat need help, whether it be
(57:24):
intellectually disabled oranyone that's disabled or
anything in that, who they, whoneed, who care for people around
meal preparation and wants touse or collaborate with me, I'd
love to talk to them.
Yeah.
Terrific.
Serge (57:40):
Well, I recommend I should give you a call.
Thank you for coming in.
It's been really interestingtalking to you so much for
having me.
I appreciate you coming in andmaking the time to do it today.
So thank you very much.
Thanks.
Good.
A surge here today on joined byJenny Thompson, the foodie
podiatrist.
Jenny's been a podiatrist for 37years, many of which she spent
running her own practice, uh,which recently she actually sold
and she's now gone off in acompletely different direction.
She still maintains a bit ofconnection with podiatry.
She lectures at Newcastle uni onpodiatry a couple of days a
(00:24):
week.
Uh, but recently she started anew business called the cooks
workshop.
So Jenny, welcome.
Thank you so much.
It's lovely to be here.
It's nice to have you.
It's fun.
Yeah.
Excellent.
So Jenny, I was a bit intriguedby you.
I first heard about or learnedabout you with a, an interview.
You did a podcast with TysonFranklin, who is a pretty well
(00:46):
known Australian podiatrist'swhile in productory circles
anyway, and he has a very goodpodcast actually, if anyone's
interested in podcasts,podiatrists talking to each
other, the temp.
What I found interesting aboutyour story was the fact that
you've had a long career inpodiatry, so you've got a pretty
good understanding.
You're, you're now lecturing andteaching new new people about
(01:09):
the business.
But you've also then decidedafter selling your business that
you're going to go off and dosomething completely new.
So I'm really interested to talkto you about that and what
prompted that and and whatthat's been like.
But podiatry is a big thing inour stores.
Yeah.
We have a lot of clients whocome in and they're at that
point where they're starting tohave some foot issues and
(01:30):
they're looking for solutions tothat thinking, can I get shoes
or I need shoes that are goingto do certain things for me so I
can avoid the dreaded O word,the orthotic.
Or then we have these people whocome in with these poor,
horrific orthotics that they'vebeen have been made for them by,
by people that are justimpossible to fit.
And I'm interested in yourperspective on what over the
(01:54):
years did you feel like, whatwas the reason that most people
were coming to see you when itcame to, to foot pain?
What was bringing them throughyour door?
Jennie (02:03):
It's an interesting question because it's a varied,
a very dumb situation.
The a lot of people, obviouslypain being the operative word.
Um, if you're talking aboutissues that are associated with
leg, hip, back pain are oftenthe, the last cab on the rank,
(02:25):
you know, they'd be seeingeveryone else.
And finally they come to see us,which was possibly the a bad
thing because, um, the problemhad actually become much worse
by the time they came to see us.
And we could have done a lotmore if we'd seen them earlier.
So that was one set of people,the other set of people who have
had foot pain as part of theirfoot degeneration changes in
(02:47):
their feet over the over time.
Um, so that's a different set ofpeople.
And then you have people withfoot pain that's not associated
with biomechanics, just moreassociated with clinical.
So, uh, that sort of breaks thepain down into three areas.
Um, so the, the, the clinicalone we put aside for a minute or
that's just as important.
(03:08):
The other two were oftenfootwear related because people
didn't understand the value ofsupportive footwear or how foot
worked, how it related to theirdaily activities.
Um, how weight gain made adifference, um, how health
issues affected their feet.
Um, generally.
(03:29):
So it was a lot of, uh,education, um, issues or, or, or
health literacy is a term thatwe tend to use a little bit
because people just don't knowenough about how their body
works and how it is affected bywhat they do and what they wear
and all those sort of things.
Yeah.
So it sounds like most peoplewait till they have a problem
(03:51):
before they come and see.
Yeah, I think the community isbroken down into groups of
people and there is certainsmaller percentage that are
fairly proactive about theirhealth and life in general and
they tend to be the more extrememembers of our community I
think.
Um, but I think life gets in theway and we all get busy and we
put it off and, um, I've got tosay men are probably the worst
(04:12):
at that.
Very good at avoiding voiding,having to do something about a
problem.
Yeah.
A physical problem, everything.
But yeah, so, um, we probablysaw more women in that respect
because of that.
Um, also women tended to haveissues related to foot pain that
had been homeless, hormonallyaffected during childbirth and
(04:34):
then again through menopause.
So there was issues withligament.
So those things can happen.
Things like foot pain, right?
Hormones affect, um, thesoftness of ligaments and soft
tissues.
So, and particularly if you gaina lot of weight over pregnancy
and those, how do they affect,they soften it.
So there's an influence ofsoftening, uh, on soft tissue
(04:54):
structures, which then makesthe, the foot structure less
stable in a, in a, in anutshell.
Serge (05:01):
Hmm.
So if you knew that, let's sayyou're approaching menopause or
I don't know if there's an exit,I'm not an expert on that.
We all approach it and thetrepidation, but, but if you are
approaching that in there,assuming there's some way you
can identify before you getthere, if you were to be able to
manage that hormonal process,you sign that you could then
(05:22):
manage the degeneration of thatsoft tissue or is that getting
too,
Jennie (05:26):
that's possible.
But the probable not veryprobable because people don't,
okay.
Um, we often wait till we havesymptoms and again, um, is that
just part of aging and do wereally need to change it and is
it wise to interfere and do wejust have to cop it and, and
deal with the issue?
So there is an impact whether wecould change that impact is
another question.
(05:46):
So once it happens, there'sthings you can do to, well, you
need to reassess your, your footstructure.
Uh, it's not what it was whenyou're 18.
A lot of things have happened inthe meantime too in your life.
And so your foot changes yourfoot.
What may flatten out more, itbecomes, um, perhaps, uh, the
(06:07):
end result of biomechanicalchange happens.
So you ending up with thingsthat, you know, chlorine toes,
hammer toes, banyans, um,calluses and corns, all the
impact of, um, changed footstructure over time and the
impact of footwear over time.
So, uh, it, it's important to,um, to recognize that there has
(06:31):
been change and look at yourfeet differently.
Okay.
A lot of people say that, Oh mymother had Bunyan so I'm going
to get Bunyan's or I've got thembecause I think my, you know,
it's like, thanks mom, she gaveme this a lot of things.
We thank our parents.
Fortunately I think we inheritthe predisposition to develop
Bunyan.
So we would inherit a foot typeof foot structure that a foot
(06:52):
structure that's more likely toinherit Banyan.
So a particularly hyper mobileflattish foot is quite likely to
create a Bunyan cause it becomesmore unlocked, more unstable,
and then the Bunyan forms as astabilizing mechanism.
So you wouldn't inherit that.
I, I, I don't say you inheritedBunyan inherit a predisposition
to[inaudible].
(07:13):
So you said it becomes astabilizing factor.
So I guess the fact that aBunyan forms, does that mean
your body's for me for a reason?
Absolutely.
No, no, no.
So you get deviation of bonesout in one direction and another
as a stabilizing mechanism.
And also because the foot hasbecome much more, uh, mobile in
(07:34):
the forefoot area.
So it's trying to take a grip onthe ground.
It's, it's quite a complex issuebecause it's just one way of it
happening.
So it happens as a result ofyour foot structure and the way
your foot functions.
Yeah.
And so how can fuse affect that?
Well, she's can make adifference in a positive and
negative way, so she's can offeryou more support so you don't
(07:56):
have that level of unlocking andsubluxation and, and softness
underneath the, the footwear.
It allows the deviation or thejoint changes to happen.
But it also can create problemsby exerting pressure in the
wrong places.
So ill fitting shoes canactually create problems as
well.
And juvenile Bunyan's or you'refitting what, what do you mean
(08:17):
by that?
Um, so especially with a youngperson, if you've got a shoe
that's too tight, too narrow inthe wrong places, it can
certainly, um, it can certainlyinfluence the Bunyan's to form.
So, but by you mean likerestricting certain parts of the
force.
And what about in an olderperson that so when your foot,
(08:40):
you've grown up, you, youfinished growing and your foot's
finished developing again.
The support is really importantbecause it's as we get older
than a lot of those changeshappen.
It's not necessarily, so that'sprobably a more a different
phase.
So as we've, we've stoppedgrowing and life has happened
and where we're actually puttingmore pressure on our feed in
different ways.
(09:01):
That's why I say we need to lookat the sort of footwear
differently instead of lookingat the same old shoes you've
worn because that's where peoplefall into a hole about finding a
comfortable shoe because theyoften look at the same shoe
style they've always worninstead of looking for something
that actually meets their needs.
Now where needs and what's yourtake on the whole barefoot shoe
(09:22):
thing where they have the shoesthat are, it's basically just a
bit of rubber on DIA your foot.
So it's any protection.
It's not giving you any supportat all with the idea of
activating your muscles andwhatnot.
And you know, I think there's afair bit of science out there
that supports in principle thatthis is effective and can be
good.
But I think that only applies tocertain foot types and certain
(09:43):
body types.
I'm someone who has got a veryflat pronated mobile foot is not
going to be comfortable and it'smore likely to, um, increase,
um, foot pathology and pathologyfurther up the leg.
Cause you've got to rememberthat the, the foot is the
interface between the ground andthe body.
(10:04):
And so that's where a lot ofthings happen that, uh, where
the body compensates for thingsthat are happening elsewhere.
So, um, and I think that's a,that's a really important thing
to remember as well.
So when you say mobility in thefoot, what do you mean by that?
Within the foot, as in with anyjoint in the body, there is a
specified, normal invertedcommas, range of motion for good
(10:29):
function.
Um, so some people have agreater degree of joint movement
and softness or, uh, flexibilityin soft tissues around it, the
ligaments and the muscles andjoint capsules, things like
that.
So, uh, some people havenaturally greater ranges of
(10:49):
motion in their joints and somepeople are very hypo mobile or
less mobile in their joints.
And so, um, that that's, that'sa difference.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so it makes sense then thatif, if you have a hyper mobile
foot put, when you put it in afirm shoe or a soft shoe, it's
going to have an influence onhow you, your foot's moving
around.
(11:09):
Yeah.
And then of course the rest ofyour body.
So if you've got your foot in agood stable position, then that
influences your knee position,your pelvis, your hips, your
spine.
So it goes all the way all theway up.
And it's really crucial to, um,to have stable foot wear and
that reason.
And so, I mean, what short offoot wear or orthotics will,
(11:35):
we'll get to them.
Um, what kind of things canpeople do to help manage that?
I guess in particularly in theearly stages, it's one thing,
once you've got a problem thatthere's a certain, there's a lot
of different treatments, but ifyou can start to feel you've got
issues with your feet, um, okay.
We have a lot
Serge (11:54):
of clients who go to [inaudible].
They say, Oh, I was given theseexercises to do.
People just seemed veryreluctant.
Jennie (11:59):
I was never very good at prescribing exercises because
people didn't do them.
You know, especially if you givethem too many.
Again, you break this populationdown into people that are
proactive about health andcaring for themselves and some
that, Oh no, it's too hard.
Just give me something to wearin my shoes.
Um, so you can do thestretching, strengthening, and
(12:22):
um, and footwear.
They're probably the main, themain, um, activities.
But I think it's important,perhaps early in the piece to
have an assessment of your feetand try and understand the
potential problems you mightface.
Get someone to tell you whatyour foot type is, the sort of
footwear you should be wearing,um, what will make your feet
(12:43):
worse.
Uh, how, how can you preventproblems having happening?
So I think that's a really goodidea and I think you've got to
pick who you go to see and ringand talk to them before you go
in and say, is this the sort ofhelp you can give me?
Cause podiatrists, um, like anyprofession vary in their
approach to how they,
Serge (13:02):
that's a really interesting point.
So how does someone identify agood podiatrist or the right
podiatrist for them as opposedto, I mean there's so many out
there.
How do you choose the right oneand know that they're good?
Jennie (13:15):
Okay.
So I suppose word of mouth isalways a big thing.
Don't be afraid to ring and askthem if they can help you.
Don't be afraid to get on thephone and talk to them and ask
them, even if you have to pay togo and have an appointment and
talk to them if you're not happywith what they say.
Serge (13:31):
So what kind of kind of questions should people ask?
So in terms of, I want to workout, is this podiatrist's going
to help me?
Are they the right fit for me?
Jennie (13:38):
I think you need to say out front.
Listen, I'm, I, I'm looking atbeing a bit proactive with my
feet, my children's feet,whomever, um, and trying to look
at preventing problems.
I've seen what's happened to myparents feed.
Um, see if there's any way I canavoid that happening to me in
the future.
Are you the sort of person thatcan give me an assessment now
(13:59):
and prescribed me a plan ofaction for the future?
And if they don't understandwhat you're saying, then you
move on.
Serge (14:06):
Hmm.
That's brilliant.
Cause I mean, we get like, we'llget quotes, we interview like
we're looking at doing some workat home, we're talking to
different builders.
You get different tradies togive you quotes.
But it seems like it comes toour health.
We never realized or never thinkof, you know, like I can talk to
more than one doctor.
I can talk to numerouspodiatrists, I can interview
them and choose them.
(14:26):
I don't have to just take
Jennie (14:27):
absolutely.
You interview them.
That's the way.
And it's like, it's, it's aprevention strategy strategy.
It's like, um, where I'm at nowwith my, my, my new career or
new area of interest is thatit's prevention.
It's prevention and earlyintervention and management
taking a proactive role in yourlife instead of sitting on the
sidelines and waiting for thingsto fall off.
Serge (14:49):
Hmm.
Yeah.
That's interesting
Jennie (14:52):
cause I know a complaint that I know a lot of my clients
have is that I think it's, it'sa really, it's a big issue.
I think particularly for malepodiatrist, there seems to be a
lot of male podiatrists andaround footwear they have a very
one dimensional view of what youshould wear.
Absolutely.
Interesting.
And I, because with women, theydon't have a concept, they don't
(15:14):
have that innate knowledge offootwear.
Working with the O wordorthotics and women, it can be
an absolute nightmare because weall wear so many different types
of shoes, seasonal changes, men,couple of pairs at the end
you've got to fit them in.
That's usually no problem.
So men and orthotics was alwaysa great thing to do because
there wasn't a problem.
Women, often it came, you knowyou're treating their problem
(15:37):
often came down to a combinationof things.
So really footwear was reallycrucial.
And you know, I used to talk tothem about the sort of shoes and
what they'd be looking for in ashoe.
And I always gave them thatadvice.
Go and try everything on, stoplooking at the same same shoe
that you've always worn.
Try everything on in the shopand find out what's comfortable
cause that's what it comes backto.
(15:57):
If you feel stable andcomfortable then it's probably
the right shoe for you.
But trying to understand whatstable and comfortable feels
like is something that somepeople have never had.
Cause I've always worn thongs,I've always worn floppy ballet
flats or something.
So in introducing them tosupportive footwear, which
doesn't have to be ugly orhorrible, it can be quite a new
(16:17):
thing for them.
Okay.
So you said stability there.
That's cause that's notnecessarily something people
think about comfort, but theydon't necessarily think about
well am I stable?
Stability equals comfort in myhead.
I know for my shoes it does.
If, if my foot, if my foot baseis not feeling stable, then I'm
not going to be stable all overas I'm walking around.
Particularly when you're talkingabout older people, falls risks,
(16:40):
issues with diabetes where theyhave developed complications
like vascular and neurologicalproblems.
So they've perhaps lost feelingin their feet, those sorts of
things.
It's really important that theyhave safe and supportive
footwear.
So the challenges that they'renot horrific looking shoes and
this is a lot of people have intheir head that it's like I
(17:01):
never have to wear sensibleshoes and sensible equals ugly.
And you do get a smallpercentage of people that come
and don't and kill it lookslike, I just want to be
comfortable.
I just want to get out of pain.
So there's that, that group ofpeople, I love them.
They're easy to fix.
It's the ladies that come in andthey used to used to wearing a
court shoe that has no supportand um, you know, you look at
(17:21):
them in the shoe and there'sthis massive gap between where
the arch of their foot is andwhere the shoe finishes in.
And if they don't have a conceptof a good fitting shoe and
perhaps they've never been to adecent shoe store.
And that is another problem withshoe stores is finding somebody
that's not there to sell you ashoe, but someone that actually
understands your needs, you canactually find something that's
(17:43):
gonna work for you.
Yes.
And like you said earlier, givesyou an opportunity to try
things.
Yes.
Serge (17:50):
That's so important.
I mean it's something that we'realways talking about in store.
It's just try things on youdon't like, you don't have to
like everything we know youwon't like everything.
That's not the purpose of it.
You can always take them offagain.
I mean you're the customer atthe end of the day and you, it's
you, you want, you have to buysomething unless you've tried,
tried them on.
And so just go in there and doit.
(18:12):
Just do it.
Yeah.
And I think sometimes peoplefeel like they can look and get,
I can tell what will look goodor what'll work for me or what
weight or they're too narrow.
They're too high.
They're the point.
Cause I've done it a hundredtimes and I know now what shoes
worked for me, but there's a lotof people that haven't got a
clue now and there's also footfoot wear has changed so much
that you know the design andshape of things have changed.
(18:35):
A fine Tozer.
Perfect example.
Years ago you'd put yourselfinto a fine toed shoe pointy
shoe and you were squashed inthere.
It was uncomfortable.
Now lasting is improved so thatjust because it's got a fine tie
pointy toe, it shouldn't beuncomfortable.
It still should fit you, but youwon't know that unless you try
it on.
Of course not every shoe isgoing to work, but and safe
shoes tend to not necessarilyfollow that probably.
(18:57):
No, and that's because thereality is we shoes, the work is
in the lasting, which isessentially the mold of how a
shoe is made around.
That's where the effort goesinto making sure it fits and
that's what you pay for when youinvest in good shoes.
It's that, you know, anyone cango off and knock off a high end
shoe in a, in a, you know, afactory, but they don't spend
(19:19):
the time to get the lastingright, which is what made it so
comfortable.
So they'll look all right, butthey just won't feel that.
And that's, that's reallyimportant.
Trying things on.
But that's really useful.
If it's, it's thinking, well,when I try it on, what am I
thinking about?
Yes, it's comfortable.
Is it stable and how does myfoot feel in it?
Jennie (19:37):
And that's the, that's the advantage of going into a
store and trying mini shoes onso that you start to see the
difference you can, Oh, that'swhat she means.
That's what comfortable feelslike.
That's what stable feels like.
My, my heels not rolling around.
I'm getting support under thearch.
I've got plenty of comfort underthe ball of my foot.
My toes aren't.
Serge (19:59):
Okay.
So you and you, so you, you feelrelaxed and natural when you
walk, is that
Jennie (20:04):
yeah, absolutely.
You can, you walk off and you'renot feeling, you're not wobbling
around.
Yes.
And, and I think back, you know,this is totally just could to
me, is you look at some of thefootwear of the women in the
early or prior to the prior tothe first war if you like.
(20:26):
And women all wore very sort ofsensible, quite often lace up
shoes.
There was, you know, and nowthey could have been dressy, but
there were still on a similarformat.
And I think that probably wasum, a good thing.
Serge (20:42):
Yeah.
In a sense.
So the fact that they were lacedup the head support, they'll
robust, they could run around inthem.
That's
Jennie (20:47):
right.
Cause they only often had onepair of shoes anyway.
Okay.
And so that's what they wore allthe time.
And I think, and especially ifyou look at domestic staff in
movies of the old days,wandering around castles and
serving the ladies andgentlemen, it was, they all wore
sensible shoes.
They were on their feet all thetime.
And uh, and I think we've sortof got away from that.
(21:09):
And I think in Australia,certain climate change, climate
effect here it's, it's not thatcold.
Most of the time we don't wanderaround in the snow.
We don't do all of those things,so we tend to opt for more
casual footwear and we wantthings that are open like we'd
like.
There's this whole big sneakerthing is a is a big fashion
trend at the moment, which isgreat, but in summer you don't
(21:31):
always want to be wrapped up ina sneaker.
Especially I find sandals a bigproblem because I, I think a
sandal really with a closed inback is ideal and yet that's
really hard to find.
Just stabilizes your heel and ifyou stabilize that rear foot
component of your foot, then thewhole thing going forward will
(21:52):
be much more stable and you willfeel much better and you're not
foot stop flopping about becausethen again, if you stabilize
stabilizing that rear foot, therest of your body is more stable
so it holds a position well,which is the whole point of an
orthotic if you like, is to putyour foot back into that.
Well, a good functioningposition to allow us to ability
(22:12):
and good, uh, non pathologicalposture, well economical as far
as energy goes, posture so thatyou, uh, you function much, much
better.
So when you say economical, youmay say your body's not working
too hard.
Absolutely.
Yes.
So how is it that forethought Xcan vary so widely?
(22:34):
Interesting question.
You know, I go back many, many,many years ago when I started my
training and uh, in those dayswe made inner souls, they were
called and they were built froma flat device and we sort of
built pieces on them toaccommodate what needed to be
done for the patient these days.
And then towards the end of mytraining training, the, the, um,
(22:59):
the solid molded orthotic cameinto being that we see now where
it's actually made from aplastic cast of a foot.
And these days, uh, don't startme, but they, um, also there's
the, the scanned variety.
Okay.
So what you scan the foot, scanthe foot and or cast, but mostly
scan the foot and that goes offto a company with a manufactured
(23:23):
computer generated.
And that's a whole nother story.
Okay.
Don't start me.
As I said.
Um, so the, the, so thenorthotic started to change.
And so you've got people thathave trained with various levels
of understanding and howorthotics made the SA, the whole
(23:46):
research around viral mechanics.
That's the study of how we move,um, biomechanics and foot health
has evolved over time.
And so you've got a lot ofpractitioners out there coming
from different levels ofunderstanding about orthotics
and biomechanics.
Uh, and so that's why it's soimportant as, uh, any health
professional to stay up to dateand, and keep understanding
(24:08):
what's changing and disagree oragree it as, as, as you will.
Um, and so that's part of thereason we see such a difference
in, we also see poorcraftsmanship, good
craftsmanship.
We also see money over care andconcern.
(24:31):
So I think that some people arejust, um, very much more focused
in, in what comes in the door.
And that goes for across theboard anyway in any profession
and meant any business.
So I think I always tried togive the best service and if I
(24:52):
prescribed something that wasn'tworking, I was always happy to
change it, rearrange it, dosomething different.
Some people don't do that.
And I also think that you need asense of, I think what's really
important with prescribing, andthis is something that um,
patients need to be aware of iswhen they do go for their
appointment, makes sure thatthey get a really thorough
(25:14):
history that taken, that thepodiatrist really understands
them and how they function, whattheir needs are on a daily
basis, what then their clinicalneeds are.
You know, lots of goodassessments, um, tests done
while they're there to determinethe physical needs, but also the
sort of footwear they're like orneed to wear, whether it be for
(25:35):
work commitments, et cetera.
Um, sort of leisure activitiesthey do because they will may
need two or three differentpairs because the sort of shoe
you put an orthotic into willagain impact on the
effectiveness of that orthotic.
So if you put a verycontrolling, very rigid
controlling orthotic device intoa shoe that is also very rigid
(25:59):
and controlled with lots ofbuilt in correction, you
actually going to create anovercorrection.
Okay.
So I always on on most occasionswould say to somebody if they're
having an orthotic device to geta neutral shoe that's built on a
neutral last, not a correctiveshoe.
And then again see that thing.
I think a lot of people get awaywith the right footwear and
(26:21):
don't necessarily need anorthotic if they will go and get
the right shoes.
Serge (26:25):
Okay.
And so it sounds like going backto what you said earlier about
actually interviewing apodiatrist to talk to them about
how they're going to work withyou.
They should be asking you theright questions in terms of your
lifestyle.
So it's all well and good iflike if you work in a corporate
environment, you have to wearcertain
Jennie (26:44):
types of shoes or you feel that's important for you to
wear them.
How can we make you comfortable?
And you know, we can't fixeverybody and sometimes you just
have to say, look, unless youcan change your footwear, we
can't do anything more, but youcan play with it.
We can put things inside theshoe that little wedges and
things like that inside aparticular shoe to make that
(27:06):
shoe more more functional.
Especially if someone has anorthotic for that shoe and maybe
a good pair of shoes that meetsthe needs here.
Then tinker with the some oftheir special occasion shoes to
try and make them morecomfortable as well.
Yeah, and so because one thingpeople worry about is I have to
wear these orthotics and I knowfor whatever reason they've
(27:26):
accepted there, but then theyfeel like I've, I'm going to a
wedding, I'm going to a functionwhere maybe I'm dressing up like
I don't normally, but I need tobe able to put my thoughts in
this shoe.
So I always say 80% of the time.
Okay.
For the most patients, somepeople have extreme needs and
they need them all the time.
Yeah.
Because it's difficult.
(27:46):
If you feel like, well, there'sa difference between saying in
some productions, say you haveto wear them all the time and
people will take that veryliterally.
But if you go into it like wecall them bar shoes or you're
going to walk from the taxi tothe bar and sit down, you know,
we all have them in our water,you're not going very far.
And that is right.
And that's exactly what I say to, to patients.
(28:08):
Don't, don't stress over thistoo much.
You know, it's, it's importantthat you're comfortable and
getting the right support for,for everyday activities.
If you're going out for dinner,as you just said, it's a lot of
sitting down and I look at someof these girls and nightclubs
and don't know how they do it.
I couldn't dance in some ofthose shoes, but they seem to
manage it.
Maybe they're numbed and so isit because some people say, I'm
(28:34):
used to wearing heels and Ican't go into flats.
So the people have the oppositeproblem.
Sometimes if they always were inparticularly high heels that
their muscles get used to it andthen they can develop problems
when they go out of heels.
Absolutely.
Yeah, that's true.
Because if someone's wearing aheel all the time, the the leg
muscles in the back of the legcan shorten over time so that
when they try and go downbarefoot or into our flat shoe,
(28:58):
they get, can get symptoms ofpain in the backs of their legs
and the Achilles tendon and, andthen, uh, also plantar
fasciitis.
So they need to, if it's a hugechange, then obviously they need
to, um, try and do somestretching in adept that most
people that wear heels, and I'mone of them, I wear a little bit
of a heel.
I'm much more comfortable.
(29:19):
I cannot, the structure of myfoot, I cannot go totally flat.
I roll into much are much morecomfortable with a little bit of
a heel.
Okay.
And I know that, so that's whatI do.
And so for a podiatrist tounderstand better about you, it
sounds like they've got to askyou the right questions.
And you also said about thempeople keeping up on, you know,
(29:40):
they been trained
Serge (29:42):
sometime ago when the technology's changed.
Thinking's changed obviously alot.
Jennie (29:46):
It's evolved over.
I was pretty smart, you know, hego, I surrounded myself with
young people.
I used to have a number ofemployees coming through the
door and it didn't turn overmassively, but I would always be
able to access information thatwas current from current staff
as well as doing my[inaudible]updated by myself
Serge (30:08):
without normal.
I mean how normal is it forpodiatrists to be reading peer
reviewed journals and new re newresearch papers and keeping up
to date on them?
Jennie (30:17):
Well, I think you'll find that it's actually fairly
reasonably widespread thatpeople do that there is a demand
for registration and we havecertain amount of CPD points
each year, which continuingeducation.
So yes, there's a criteria setby the registration board, by
our PRA that States we must dothis, this and this to maintain
(30:39):
our registration, which I thinkshould be across the board in
most professions.
And I think it is in, I know itis in any of the medical
professions you need to do that.
Um, and, and that's the otherthing, choosing a podiatrist.
A lot of podiatrists these daystend to Naish themselves.
So they will choose tospecialize even if it's
unofficially their specialtybecomes something they're good
(31:01):
at.
So they work with children orthey work with, um, people with,
um, spinal difficulties, youknow, all sorts of, um, areas
that people can actuallyinitiate themselves into.
So that's another thing too, tothink about what your problems
are, um, and find out if thatpodiatrists you're going to be
said, um, has, has value tooffer.
(31:23):
They're also, I think, visitingtheir website.
If they don't have a website,then I'd be a little bit
concerned because it doesn't, tome, it doesn't mean they're,
they're up to date.
They're probably, I'm justrelying on what's gone by in the
past.
And getting along.
I think they, any business todayreally needs to have a website
(31:43):
that tells you about themselves,tells you what they're trying to
achieve, gives you information.
Serge (31:49):
Okay.
So you can make a bit of anassessment and so you'd, you'd,
you'd lecturing at uni,Newcastle,
Jennie (31:57):
yeah.
Working in the clinical areawith the students.
And I just love it.
It's just a wonderful way ofgiving back end.
It's just, it's reallyinteresting cause it gives me
some perspective.
I should've done it earlier in away while I was still working,
um, of what the students comeout of uni knowing and not
knowing.
I always had students come to mypractice on placement from two
(32:18):
different unis, Western Sydneyand Newcastle.
So I always liked working withstudents.
It's, uh, it's, it's greatinfluencing them with the
knowledge that I've gleaned overthe years.
Hmm.
Serge (32:28):
Yeah.
Hmm.
And have you noticed, has therebeen a change in the type of
people that are going intopodiatry or the, their attitudes
to the profession in terms ofthose young people?
I think he's
Jennie (32:40):
definitely seemed more, more guys going in these days.
And we did in our day.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Um, it's
Jennie (32:48):
a lot of sports interested people.
There's quite a crossover thesedays in allied health, podiatry,
physio, exercise physiology, yousort of, there's a lot of common
ground there.
Yeah.
So you'll find people sort ofveering in different directions,
but in with a lot of the samemotivation.
So a lot of people areinterested in sports, podiatry,
(33:09):
a lot of the guys particularly[inaudible]
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Mmm.
Jennie (33:14):
I S I always say if you don't have empathy, you
shouldn't be in the profession.
And I see the students and Ilook at them and I think you'll
do fine and you, you're going tostruggle because you need to be
able to get in a connection witha patient by the end of that
first consultation.
And that's what I try and tellthem.
Don't look at the paper, look atthem, look at them, talk to
(33:35):
them.
Um, find a common, commonsubject to talk about.
Create a connection.
I think that's it.
Serge (33:43):
Is that something that they're taught in the universe
apart from you havingcompensation?
It's up to their individualteachers to take it.
Jennie (33:51):
Yeah.
That's, I think that's justsomething that comes from
experience and it's just, it'sall about communication and that
is something that you can applyto many aspects of business.
If you're talking aboutmarketing or anything like that.
It's, it's how do you relate tothat person and how can you make
(34:12):
a difference in their life andwhat have you got to offer them.
And I think if you live yourlife thinking, what can I do for
you?
It always comes back eventuallyto someone gives something for
you.
So it's empathy, understand, bekind.
Serge (34:26):
And is that, I mean you're in, you had your own
business for many years andyou've obviously had, you trade
it away and so then you, yousold your business, is that
right?
And I don't know, now I've lostcheck of the block of time.
It must be 18 months if notmore.
Okay.
(34:46):
Yeah.
And then you had this great ideaof, rather than just sailing off
into the sunset and maybe doinga little bit of teaching that
you'd go and start a brand newbusiness doing something
completely.
Jennie (34:56):
Oh, whatever ration that was.
No.
Serge (34:59):
Tell me hat.
How did you get to that headspace?
Jennie (35:02):
It took me eight months of bumming around thinking, what
am I going to do now?
I need a job, but I don't reallywant to go and work in another
podiatry clinic, and so I hadsome ideas and I
Speaker 3 (35:16):
mm.
And this,
Jennie (35:19):
so I was watching television one night and it was
set in Canada.
This lady had set up a awesomeevent space in the country and
it was in a big barn.
It was great for weddings andthings.
That's great.
Then I saw she opened up herkitchen and created cooking
classes and I thought, Hmm,that's what I'm going to do
(35:41):
because my awareness of theissues with food, particularly
for my diabetic patients, butgenerally anyone with chronic
disease that could be impactedby diet, that was huge out
there.
People would, diabetics would goand see their dietician, they'll
go and see a diabetes educatorthat see their specialist.
They'd be told what to eat, butthere was no one showing them
(36:03):
how to do it and put that in thesame on the same side as the
loss of cooking skills that wehave developed over the last
couple of generations wherepeople are not handing it down.
Cooking is a life skill.
It's something you do to say tostay alive.
If you've got no one else to doit for you, you have to learn
(36:23):
how to do it.
And um, I learned to cook mymom's knee then I did and I had
a natural interest in it.
So I did more cooking classesoutside of the, and in school I
taught my children all to cookand I thought that was what
everyone did, but I was wrong.
And I looked around and realizedthere was a huge issue with lack
of skill or an end nutrition inthe community.
(36:45):
So my idea was I would open acooking school and help these
people to learn how to cook forbetter health.
So you were, you kind of had ahealth rather than just being a
nice idea, a recreational thingthat it was like there's a
health focus.
It was always that health focusand the journey has taken the
usual, um, turns and windingroad, um, until I finally come
(37:09):
back and worked out my target,um, market as far as who needs
me and what I want to provide.
So we have fun classes, we haveinteresting cuisines, we do some
cake decorating.
All of those things I can offeras well.
But my main focus now is toprovide, um, empowerment for
people around cooking healthyand tasty meals for themselves.
(37:30):
Okay.
And so you said that peopleoften, if I have health things
like diabetes, they're going andseeing nutritionists and medical
people who are saying, youshould eat this, you should do
that, but they don't know how toactually put that into.
And you find people tend to eatthe same from a narrow parameter
of food choices.
(37:52):
Um, or whether that be foodstyles, ingredients, um, whether
it be takeaways, a lot ofprepackaged food and prepared
food, which has a lot of, sorry,hidden fats and sugars that you
have to be and not only hiddenfats and sugars, but incredible
amount of um, processing and,and added ingredients that may
(38:16):
or may not be good for you.
So my whole idea is to justbreak it back, bring it back to
simple.
It's not that hard.
It's not hard.
Just start to understand whatyou need to eat and how to eat
it.
So the government guidelines,there's a, a beautiful plate
that they've, they've got rid ofthe old pyramid.
(38:37):
Okay.
So guidelines around diet is nowthat you should have half your
plate with fruit and veg withvegetables, a quarter with
protein and the other quarter isyour carbs.
And um, I think fats in there,but I've forgotten where it
fits.
Uh, so your carbs being some ofyour carb vegetables as well as
your pass to your rice as well,corn, those sorts of things.
(38:59):
And I'm living that because Ifigured if I tried to tell
people to do it, I need to liveit.
So it's a really big deal.
It's hard to fill that half aplate with vegetables, but I'm
really making an effort to makesure that what I'm off what I'm
suggesting is possible.
And only 1% of Australians liveby the Australian dietary
guidelines and, and I can sortof see why none of us need to be
(39:21):
perfect.
We just need to start moving inthe right direction.
So that's, that's where I'm at.
Um,
Speaker 4 (39:28):
it's, it's[inaudible] .
Jennie (39:31):
It's amazing how many people, I agree when you start
talking about diet, I, you know,my diet is not so good or I am,
Oh no, I don't eat thatvegetable.
I've never tried that.
Oh, is that nice?
I have never had that one.
I mean, it's just amazing how weget stuck in, in the ruts of
food.
(39:51):
What do you think stops peoplefrom trying different things
that they suggest that not whatstops people doing anything?
I don't know.
Not knowing.
I know actually I think I doknow not knowing what to do with
it.
Not knowing how to, how toincorporate it and how to
prepare it.
Yes.
I think that's quite often theproblem.
And you get issues when you'recooking for a family.
(40:13):
People don't like this.
People don't like that.
And my husband doesn't likethis.
My wife doesn't like that.
So you T again, they, thechoices become narrower.
So that influences what you endup eating.
Cause you think, well I don'twant to cook for me, I just want
to cook whatever on all eightand I have to just, whoever's
doing the cooking aid has tofeed in or they say, well you're
just going to eat it causethat's what I want.
(40:34):
[inaudible] you've got to havearguments and that's right.
It creates a stress.
So people end up the path ofleast resistance and end up
where they were.
So it's a lot of it's education.
It's a lot of, it's, I'm reallybig, I'm really big on flavor,
texture and taste so that itcreates, uh, a desire to
implement these things.
(40:54):
And Oh, that's fantastic.
And that didn't take me long didit enough.
I find that having some, some ofour classes, cause you do a lot
of healthy classes as well.
Um, I just love that look onpeople's face when they taste
something they've made that was,wasn't that difficult and isn't
innately healthy.
Hmm.
Mmm Hmm.
No, that light that we're diet,I think healthy eating, it's
(41:16):
food to feed our bodies.
It's food that sustain life.
That's what it's about is givingourselves the right balance.
And of course we all havesometimes foods that's normal
and that's how we know.
That's fine.
We'll go out for dinner andenjoy it.
But if you spend the rest ofyour time doing some times or
doing the good then, then that'sfine.
And you're going to be on a muchbigger, a better path to health
(41:37):
and longevity.
So if you can do it right mostof the time.
Yeah.
Like anything in life, isn't it?
The reverse of moderation.
Yes.
Yeah.
And it's, it's interestingbecause I, I just don't, um,
I've forgotten what I was goingto say.
You'll have to edit that out.
That's right.
No editing here.
(41:58):
Um, but so what also interestsme is that, that you decide, I
mean, you had this idea that'sone thing and you might have
chosen to make some lifestylechanges yourself at some point,
but you thought, no, I'm goingto go and make a business out of
it.
Oh, I know, Gary, isn't it?
What was it that gave you thatconfidence to actually do it
rather than just think about,well, just believing I could.
(42:21):
Um, it's possibly a bit of adownfall of mine.
I just think, Oh, I can do thatand so off I go and do it and my
husband's rolling his eyes andI'm thinking, Oh my goodness.
And it's very rarely scary causeI'm funding this myself and fast
running out of money.
But it's just a matter of doingit.
And I was naive, Lee thoughtit'll just all happen.
(42:42):
And so then you hit that slump afew months down the track I
think, Hmm, they're not coming,what's going on?
So then you realize that youhave a lot more work to do.
It's very different to running abusiness that was established
and sort of ran itself in a lotof ways.
This is different and that, butthey're not, you turn that into
something exciting.
And so you start the idea ofnetworking and what's networking
(43:04):
really.
What is that?
And then you explore the optionsavailable to you and you try and
align yourself with the rightpeople.
Find people on LinkedIn thatmatched with your, um, your
ideas.
I entered a businesscompetition, which I was lucky
enough to win it.
And this was a turning point forme because during that
(43:25):
competition we had to redo ourbusiness plans and define our
target market.
And I realized at that time thatI had, cause I was trying to
feed to do too many differenttypes of needs.
So it might, I thought I've gotto pull this back to where my
passion is.
My passion is to help people eatbetter.
So I was approached by one ofthe judges at the end of that
(43:47):
competition and she said, Ithink we need to work together.
Collaboration is a wonderfulthing.
So then she is the CEO of Nedoat st Mary's, which is a, um, an
organization that manages amongother things disability care
homes.
So they manage care homes forpeople who have generally, um,
(44:10):
intellectual disability.
And she was concerned at thequality of the food being served
to the residents.
And the problem being that therewas no training around cooking.
The people that were caring forthem were also cooking for them
without necessarily Ninjaattritional or cooking skills.
Probably more about what's easy.
(44:31):
What's quick.
What's the bottom line though,is that the residents make the
decision about what they eat.
So if they want KFC, right, theyget it.
So the issue was quite complex.
It was to teach, to teach andmake aware the support workers
knew about nutritional and basiccooking skills, but also ways
(44:56):
that they can work with theresidents to encourage them to
make healthy food choices.
And that's quite complex.
So we, we developed a program, Igot hold of a dietician, we put
it together and we've nowcompleted the training of their
support workers.
We had up to 60 people to train,did that through workshops, two
workshops each and now we'reexcited to go to the next phase
(45:19):
where we're actually going intothe houses and we're going to
work directly with theresidents.
Wow.
Okay.
One to two and you can see whatit's like to actually implement
what you've created and, and,and yeah, and give them, because
a lot, most of the thingsactivities done in care homes is
to stimulate and improve levelsof independence for these
(45:41):
people.
So this is a life skill and Ithink it's a really important
thing to, for them to learn.
And it's going to be, I'm reallyexcited because a lot of them
already like cooking, butcooking is a creative, intuitive
thing for a lot of people.
And that's how I'm an intuitivecook.
I cook because I feel it.
(46:02):
And regardless of level ofdisability, people can also have
that level of intuition.
And we're also looking to, tofind those people in these
groups to see if we can then doongoing classes as part of
their, their leisure or theircontinuing education.
So I'm looking to try andconnect with other disability
care agencies, um, who want usto do the same for them because
(46:25):
I think no one is, there's noone doing it.
And it's a huge niche.
And the regulations by thegovernment do say that residents
in care homes should be fedaccording to Australian national
guidelines.
And uh, I don't think that'snecessarily happening.
So that's interesting thatyou've ended up there from where
you started with this ID andthrough putting yourself out
(46:47):
there and you, you said youentered a competition, um, which
you won.
And then that triggered youmeeting somebody who then said,
Hey, we need to talk.
It's taking all those individualsteps has enabled you to get to
where you are.
And it sounds like you've got a,you know, it's so exciting.
(47:07):
It is so exciting.
I to the point, I had a contactfrom a lady called dr Megan
checkup, who's a medicalnutritionist and she's got an
incredibly interesting, she hasa PhD in molecular biology.
She ran research labs atWestmead hospital and cancer
research.
She's done lots of things.
You now as a young child andshe's chosen to open up a
nutritional based clinic andshe's approached me and we're
(47:30):
working, collaborating togetherto create a workshops next year
around all these needs aboutchronic disease and managing
health and seasonal health andseasonal issues, gut health, all
of those sort of things.
Um, so that's really exciting.
So, and someone else contactedme recently who's managers,
(47:52):
dietician for bariatric health,for people who are having
bariatric surgery and she'd liketo implement some workshops.
That's where you have stomachsreducing sleep and that sort of
thing.
So quite interesting way to,they end up only being able to
eat small portions, but we stillwant them to be lovely and tasty
(48:14):
and still very nice.
So, and ma also, if you onlyhaving small portions, making
sure that your nutritionalbalance is right is really
important.
Getting enough of what you'dneed.
Absolutely.
So yeah, we're looking togetherto work together as well.
So these people are coming at meand it's fantastic.
It's so exciting.
Yeah,
Serge (48:31):
that's amazing.
So, I mean if you were to, totell people, like if someone's
got this idea of their ownbusiness and they're thinking
they're at a point in their lifewhere it's, it's do or die at
home, it's now or never like ifI'm going to do it, what are the
first kind of steps that youwould say that again to help
them kind of get started?
Jennie (48:49):
Okay.
So obviously do your research.
I think the really importantthing is to find a niche.
Find something someone's notdoing because otherwise your
competition is much, muchbigger.
Absolutely.
Find something.
And if even if you have aproduct that's fairly common,
find a way of presenting it ormarketing that has a point of
(49:12):
difference.
And as you said earlier, youhave points of difference with
your footwear.
Uh, I think that's, and whatyou're doing here is a point of
difference.
So you have to try and separateyourself from the herd a little
bit.
Um, and I'm running, running,running against the wind, but
I'm really trying hard to stayfocused and to follow my dream.
(49:35):
So I think stick with it.
If you really think, if you canafford it, make sure you do the
numbers first.
That's really important.
Um, be realistic about yournumbers.
Most of us don't do all of that.
We just run in with an idea andsay, let's do it.
Which is fine.
If it was my husband who's amuch more, um, sort of a logical
(49:59):
progression of things with him,he, he would be a lot, probably
do things a lot more, but thenhe may never ever do it either
because it looked a bit too, tooproblematic.
You can overanalyze it.
And that's my positive and mynegative thoughts.
I'm not sure what, which it is.
Sometimes it's great that I jumpin with both feet.
Sometimes it's silly, but not tobe a got lost.
(50:20):
What have you got to lose?
Sorry.
Serge (50:21):
Okay, well you're not left wondering.
Oh, I wonder if I wa you'llknow.
Jennie (50:25):
And you know what, Eagle , someone had to start doing
something, someone had to startmaking a change, so let it be
me.
Yeah.
Serge (50:33):
And so, um, it's, it's interesting that we often have
these ideas.
Um, you would do and you think,okay, I can see opportunities
here.
I can see a direction that Icould go in, but it's, it's
taking those first steps can bevery, very daunting.
(50:53):
And you said that you use thingslike LinkedIn.
You started trying to connectwith people online and through
different networking things toput it out there, what you're
doing and connect with people.
And so as a consequence, it'slike you're taking, you've met
all these scientific basednutritionists and,
Jennie (51:10):
and shifts.
I found a lot of chips that waybecause I started with more.
I just started with what I couldfind.
So, Oh yes, I'd be interested todo a class, come on, let's do a
class.
You know, and it's sort ofthing.
So you work through, um, workingwith different people and then
you find people you have synergywith and as you start to settle
down, you find the people thatyou need to make your business
(51:32):
what it wants, what you want itto be.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's interesting.
And who knows where it'll go.
I don't know.
Isn't it funny?
I'm not getting any younger.
And, uh, but that's neverbothered me either.
I'd just get on with it becausealways everyone's got something
to offer.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
Yeah.
Excellent.
So
Serge (51:53):
you've still kept your connection with podiatry?
Um,
Jennie (51:56):
I think, um, I've been at it for too long to let that
go.
Um, but I definitely don't thinkI'd want to go back to clinic.
I'm really happy at doing,working with students.
I think it's wonderful.
Serge (52:07):
And do you, have you found this new awareness that
you're building all the timearound nutrition and food and
with what you're doing and theidea of preparing meals for
people and fine tuning thatprocess when you go back to the
clinics with your students, isthat influencing how you're
talking to them?
Jennie (52:26):
That's a really interesting question.
And I have to say yes, not justabout food, but about
communication using this, the,some of the skills I've either
had before or I've honed more orjust the things I've learned
about communicating and, andnetworking and talking to
people.
Um, I had to do a talk to thestudents about going into
(52:47):
private practice as soon as theygraduated and whether or not to
do it.
And so a lot of those thingscame into play.
It's, it's, it's, it's, I thinkthat is a mistake myself for
them to do that straight away.
And it's like impartingknowledge around the growth that
I've had through this journey asmuch as the growth that I had
through my podiatry journey.
Yes, absolutely.
(53:08):
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's, they're still connectedand it's, it's again, something
great to talk to people.
Sorry.
Surge.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
Okay.
Serge (53:23):
Sorry I've interrupted you there.
Now you've lost your train ofthought.
Jennie (53:29):
So we'll leave everyone guessing what they were laughing
at.
Cause it's good to have a littlebit of mystery in your life.
I'm not perfect.
Thank you.
Yeah, so it's, it's, it's agreat connector with the
students as well to talk aboutwhat I'm doing outside of
podiatry and it sort of showsthem that life's can go in all
directions.
(53:50):
Yeah.
That's when you least expect it.
But if you have a go, if youhave a can you take that action
and that's the, that's thereally important.
A lot of people don't have a go.
I look at a lot of people I knowand I, cause I think people say,
Oh, you know, you're doingreally well.
It's fantastic.
And I think what is it?
Why?
Why do I have a go and whysomeone else who had the same
(54:13):
idea doesn't have a go.
And I dunno, it's just ournature I suppose.
Well what is it that you thinkis like, I would imagine you
would have had people said toyou, I could be wrong here, but
I would imagine when you startedtelling people that you're going
to do this, I would've thought,wow, that's amazing, but you
know, I couldn't do that.
Or I think it's amazing you'redoing it because for me it's
(54:34):
just seems like too much or toodifficult or that is true.
That's the sort of stuff youwould get said.
What is it, do you think peopleare like, if you know why I
think it is many, a number ofyears ago I had to do an
analysis.
I was in a, um, uh, uh, coachingprogram and we had to come up
(54:54):
with our why.
Okay, why am I doing what I'mdoing?
And of course there's always thecliched cause I cared cause all
of these things.
And then I broke it down andit's because I like to problem
solve and, and I think aboutmost of my life, it's all based
on problem solving, evenbringing up kids.
It's how can I make thatsolution happen?
(55:15):
How can I achieve that in thebest pot with the best possible
outcome?
And so I think that's what itcomes down to.
It's just my desire to createchange, my desire to make
something happen and find a wayto do that.
I think that's, maybe that'sjust because I'm a problem
solver.
I like to problem solve andsound good at it, but I like to
problem solve.
(55:36):
Well, it's a good start.
It's amazing what you can getgood at.
I've had an incredible journey.
There's been so many down days,I think I can't do this anymore.
I just can't keep trying.
It's not going to work.
And then somehow you just get upand you get going and have a
good night's sleep and you trywhen you're having those
moments, like what, what, whatdo you do?
Something?
(55:56):
Action.
Action is the cure.
You know, you do something, goand meet somebody, go to a
meeting, cut across that.
Um, that sense of um, panic andfear and do something.
Action is the solving.
Hmm.
Hmm.
That's good advice.
Thank you.
Surge.
And so if people wanted toconnect with you, ah, Cox
(56:18):
workshop.com.
Dot.
EU is, um, so we're on Facebook,we're on LinkedIn, we're on
Instagram, we have our ownwebsite.
I welcome anyone that wants tobe involved in creating change
amongst positive diet.
Um, I also want people who wantto come along to our classes, um
(56:39):
, developing this program withdoc checkup, which will start
next.
It'll be once a month for 10months.
It's set up over a wholeroutine.
So we've got a number ofprograms in the pipeline.
If they just want to come andhave some fun and learn about
Thai finger food.
We do beautiful classes likethat with some lovely people as
well.
We teach healthy plant basedmeals.
We teach, um, talking abouthealthy desserts as well as cake
(57:03):
decorating.
So there's something foreverybody.
Um, but there's plenty ofoptions on our website and I'm
just at the moment putting up,working on next year's
offerings.
So, but anyone that seem in theindustry of, um, anyone that
works with supporting peoplethat need help, whether it be
(57:24):
intellectually disabled oranyone that's disabled or
anything in that, who they, whoneed, who care for people around
meal preparation and wants touse or collaborate with me, I'd
love to talk to them.
Yeah.
Terrific.
Serge (57:40):
Well, I recommend I should give you a call.
Thank you for coming in.
It's been really interestingtalking to you so much for
having me.
I appreciate you coming in andmaking the time to do it today.
So thank you very much.
Thanks.
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