November 24, 2025 • 35 mins
You know you’re delivering great results - now let’s make it easier for clients to refer you!
In this episode, I sit down with Stacey Brown Randall, author of The Referable Client Experience and Generating Business Referrals Without Asking - to discuss what it takes to grow your business consistently through referrals (and spoiler: it's not just delivering great results).
We talk about how to intentionally design a customer experience that creates loyal, raving clients who want to refer you - without awkward asks or cringey follow-up scripts. Stacey breaks down her proven framework for turning great client relationships into a steady stream of warm, aligned referrals - all rooted in human connection, not pressure.
Inside this conversation, you’ll learn:
- Why “doing great work” isn’t enough to earn consistent referrals
- 3 stages of the client journey (new, active, alumni) and how the way your customer feels at each stage impacts their referrals
- How to balance work touch points with relationship touch points
- How to make referrals feel effortless - for both you and your clients
If you’re ready to stop relying on favors and start earning referrals that feel genuine, timely, and aligned, this episode is your roadmap.
Links & References:
- Want more ways to get referrals? Join us at the next PWR Virtual Speed Networking Event!
- For faster business growth through networking, strategy and accountability, check out the Powerful Women Rising Business Growth Community!
- Learn more and connect with Stacey Brown Randall on Instagram or at www.staceybrownrandall.com
Connect with Your Host!
Melissa Snow is a Business Relationship Strategist dedicated to empowering women in entrepreneurship. She founded the Powerful Women Rising Community, which provides female business owners with essential support and resources for business growth.
Melissa's other mission is to revolutionize networking, promoting authenticity and genuine connections over sleazy sales tactics. She runs an incredible monthly Virtual Speed Networking Event which you can attend once at no cost using the code FIRSTTIME
She lives in Colorado Springs with two dogs, her soul cat Giorgio and any number of foster kittens. She loves iced coffee, Taylor Swift, and Threads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
Hello, Stacey.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Thanks for having me, Melissa.
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Yeah, so good to have you.
So we are talking about your,well, we're talking about a lot
of things, but you have a newbook out, which I'm super
excited for you.
Um, excited to talk about that alittle bit and share that with
people.
And, you know, I reached out toyou specifically after I heard
you on another podcast because Ijust loved everything that you
were talking about in terms ofbuilding business through
(00:30):
referrals.
But, you know, doing it, thephrase I use is being a salesy
weirdo.
So how do we build our businessthrough referrals without being
a salesy weirdo?
And so I wanted you to come onand talk about that and share
that with people.
But before we dive into all ofthat, tell us just a little bit
about you and about what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Yeah.
So thanks again.
I am excited to be here.
Always love the opportunity tobust some myths when it comes to
what people think is true aboutreferrals.
Um, and I'm excited for us todive into that.
So I have been working withsmall business owners for the
past 12 years, um, showing themthat you can generate referrals
without asking, withoutmanipulation and without having
(01:10):
to pay for them or network allthe time.
Um, but it's really been, Iwould say, you know, people
always ask me, like, how did youstart this?
Like, how'd you just decide toteach referrals differently?
And I'm like, because I had to,because my first business
failed.
I was starting my secondbusiness and I needed referrals
to work for me.
(01:30):
Um, so that really is whatstarted my journey.
And now I've been doing this for12 years.
It's crazy to think, like, Ihave my I have three kids, and
two of them are seniors in highschool, and I have a sophomore.
And I'm like, wow, when I wasstarting this, like they were
still, they were like inelementary school.
I mean, it makes me feel quiteold, actually.
Um, but you know, referrals areevergreen.
We need them good economy, badeconomy, global pandemic,
(01:53):
unrest.
It doesn't matter.
Referrals are always a way thatuh business owners are gonna
want to generate their clients.
And so it's nice to have kind ofa solution that people can come
to regardless of what's going onin the world.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
One of the things that I reallylove about your book and about
the way that you talk aboutreferrals is I think for so many
people, we think of referrals aslike, okay, I'm gonna be in a
referrals group, right?
Like I'm gonna join this groupwhere Joe is a plumber.
And so Joe the plumber is gonnatell everyone he knows to hire
me, and I'm gonna tell everyonewho needs a plumber to hire Joe
(02:28):
the plumber.
We've never worked with eachother before.
I don't even know if Joe knowshow to be a plumber, but he's in
my leads group.
So I'm gonna refer him and he'sgonna refer me, and that's how
we're gonna build our businessbased on referrals.
And there's really like not onlyis there a totally different way
to do referrals, but there'salso a lot more to it, you know,
like, and that's why I like whatyou talk about in terms of the
(02:50):
referrable client experience,because it's not just about I'm
gonna refer you and you're gonnarefer me.
So let's start kind of at thebeginning of uh, you know, kind
of what the basis of your bookis and tell us what it means to
have a referable clientexperience.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Yeah, I'm glad you kind of used that example
because it's really importantfor people to understand that
the way I teach referrals isthat referrals live in an
ecosystem within your business.
They are probably hiding in lotsof different places and could be
uncovered.
You just don't know where tolook.
You don't know what, like whattype of plans you need versus
what type of tactics you needand where things are.
(03:30):
So, you know, it's interesting.
Um, my first book.
So the book we're talking about,referral client experience, is
actually my second book.
When my first book came out,generating business referrals
without asking, people would sayto me, like, okay, great.
So I'll like follow your fivesteps and then I'll get
referrals and this will begreat, and I'll have the success
your clients are having, like,and I'll know everything I need
to know.
And I was like, oh, no, wait.
That's based on one strategy.
(03:53):
One of the foundational, I thinkI teach three foundational
strategies that every businessshould have.
Now, there are 17 otherstrategies that go along with
that, but they're situationaland they're next level, and you
don't always need them.
But everybody needs thefoundational three.
And so that really startedpushing me to be like, all
right, I probably need to writeanother book so people can
understand where things fit.
(04:14):
So the way I kind of talk aboutwhere the referral client
experience fits in into yourreferrals ecosystem is think
about referrals coming fromthree groups of people, right?
The first group of people, it'susually your low-hanging fruit,
it's usually the easiest groupto get more referrals from, are
the people who are alreadyreferring you.
So if you've been in businessmore than a year, you probably
have received some referrals.
(04:35):
Maybe not a ton, or maybe youhave gotten a ton, but you
probably have the longer you'rein business, you probably have
people who've referred clientsor prospects that didn't become
clients to you.
That's one group.
Those are what we call existingreferral sources.
Referral sources is just theterm we use to describe people
who refer you, right?
So that's existing referralsources mean they've done it
(04:55):
before.
Then you have the potentialreferral sources.
Those are the people that havenever referred you and you
really want them to, and youwish they would.
You want them to become anexisting referral source.
Um, but how you cultivatesomebody who's never referred
you is very different than howyou cultivate somebody who has
referred you.
And so those are two differentgroups of people.
(05:16):
We've got our existing referralsources and we've got our
potential referral sources.
And the third group are ourclients within our client
experience.
Now, that's not to say clientsdon't land on either of the two
other groups, but when we'reworking with a client, we want
to have a referral clientexperience that is kind of
always in operation mode, right?
It's this repeatable clientexperience that's happening for
(05:37):
everybody that's reallypercolating the idea of
referrals throughout the time ofsomebody working with you.
And so that doesn't mean everyclient will refer just because
they go through your referralclient experience, but it's
definitely going to catch thosethat would and will.
Um they just need a little bitof help in that area.
And so with the referable clientexperience, I always tell my
(05:57):
clients, it's like, okay, weknow people who've referred you,
people you want to refer you,and then your clients.
Those are the three main groups.
And make sure you have, ofcourse, plans in place for each
of those three groups.
The referable client experienceis kind of the one that's almost
it's as close as you can get toset it and forget it.
Nothing in business is set itand forget it.
But it's like build it and thenget it executed on implemented,
(06:20):
and you don't really have tochange it much.
Um, some of the other ones,there's just more involved with
those strategies.
And when we think about ourclient experience, it really is
just defined as how our clientsfeel when they're working with
us.
That's the definition of clientexperience, is how your clients
feel when they're working withyou.
(06:40):
What I want people to do is payattention to what you have to do
on top of that to make yourselfactually referable.
And there is more than justdoing great work.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Yeah, I was gonna ask that because I'm thinking
about, you know, like how yourclients feel when working with
you.
So that obviously has somethingto do with when they're coming
into your sphere, right?
Like how they're coming in, howyou're converting them, uh,
their experience with onboardingand as your client or receiving
(07:12):
your products or whatever it is,um, their experience with
offboarding, if that is how yourfunnel works or that's how your
client experience works.
But is it more than just likecustomer service and doing a
good job and making sure yourclient gets what they came for
and is happy with what youdelivered?
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
Yeah, it's customer service is a part of your client
experience, but it is not yourclient experience.
And people always like, oh yeah,when there's a problem, like we
solve it with our customerservice, or I'm the business
owner and I answer the question.
So that's the customer service.
And I'm like, that's a piece,right?
Yeah, that's a tiny piece of theoverall client experience.
And what people don't recognizeis that the client experience,
(07:55):
when we say it's how yourclients feel, the feelings
change.
As they move through workingwith you, what we call the the
um the stages that a client goesthrough.
We have three different stagesthat your clients will go
through.
It's new, active, and alumni.
And as your clients move throughthose stages, they're feeling
different things.
(08:15):
And so it's really important tolike drill down and understand
like, okay, do we need to knowhow to solve problems when
things happen?
Yes, right.
That's very, very important.
But it's also understanding thatas a client works with us, their
feelings are changes and we needto meet them where they are.
And you know, I always there's athere's a question I ask it in
the book, I ask it in a lot ofmy presentations.
Um, it's really funny when I doit on virtual presentations and
(08:38):
I'll be like, okay, do youbelieve you do great work?
And Melissa, as you can imagine,like the chat blows up with yes,
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,right.
Like, oh yeah, of course I do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My clients love me.
And then my next question is, isokay, but are you drowning in
referrals?
And then the response is no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no.
Right.
Like, and people sometimes thinkthey're like, oh my gosh, I
(08:59):
think I do great work.
I've got great testimonials.
My clients tell me that theylove me.
What am I doing wrong?
And I'm always like, you're notdoing anything wrong.
You just don't know what ittakes to be able to be referral
and then bridge the gap toreferrals from there.
And it are, they are differentthings we have to do because we
have been sold, you know, we'vebeen sold a bag of lies, which
(09:21):
says do great work equalsreferrals.
And we're all like, but wait, itdoesn't.
And so where do we have to go tolike close that gap?
And I think that's the piecethat people are missing is that
it's more than the great workyou do.
Um, and we do the way that Iteach it to my clients is we
define it as a formula, right?
So your referral clientexperience, making how your
(09:42):
clients feel is defined by thework you do and the relationship
you build.
So it's like the work you do,the outputs, right?
Outreaches, touch points is whatwe call them, right?
So the work touch points you do,and that goes along with the
relationship building touchpoints you're also doing.
And so most people are like,wait, I do a client appreciation
party.
(10:02):
Is it does that count?
I'm like, yes.
But only if you're just doingone and a holiday card, it's
probably not enough.
Because we want about 20%, maybe30%, depending on what you do,
to match, right?
Along with your work touchpoints.
So if you're doing like ahundred work touch points,
there's probably gonna be about20 of them.
And some of them are tiny andsome of them can be bigger, and
everybody kind of gets tocustomize their own based on
(10:24):
what works for them.
But it's this idea that if ifyou really want to know where a
client stands in terms of howthey feel, you have to show them
that you see them more than justthe work you're doing for them.
And that feels like more workfor us as the business owner,
but and it is, right?
Not going to sugarcoat it, butonce you have that in place, it
(10:45):
makes so much more sense interms of how you take care of
your clients.
SPEAKER_00 (10:49):
Yeah.
So I do want to talk about howwe bridge that gap between the
customer experience and actuallylike getting the referrals, but
I want to back up a little bitfirst because you talked about
like how clients feel in thosethree different stages, right?
When they're new clients,they're active clients, they're
alumni clients.
Does it matter really?
This sounds terrible.
Does it matter how they feel?
(11:10):
I don't mean it like that, butin terms of referrals, like
should we be concerned about howthey feel as new clients and
active clients?
Or is our bigger concern howthey feel as alumni?
Because that's likely whenthey're going to be referring
us.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
So that is actually answered by when people are more
likely to refer you.
And that is, I think, a misnomerthat a lot of people have is
they believe they know in whatstage they're more likely to get
referrals.
So if you were to like I eventalk about this in the book,
like if you were to say, Hey,Zancy, when you get most
referrals, I'm like, oh, it'susually like in the active
stage, right?
(11:45):
Like when we're doing work andpeople are starting to see
results and things arehappening, but it's, you know,
it's before they actuallygraduate.
And then I did the data analysisthat I teach in the book.
And I was like, oh, well, that'snot completely true.
Actually, there's a strongportion of my referrals that
come when they're in the newstage.
And so, like that, that had me,this was a number of years ago,
(12:06):
but that had me like shift,like, oh, I need to approach my
new stage differently.
So, you know, and it's notalways about, I think when
people hear me say relationshipbuilding touch points and
bridging the gap to referrals,they feel like there's some kind
of prescriptive answer.
Like you're gonna have to havecoffee with every client in the
first 30 days, and then you haveto say these 17 things.
(12:28):
Like, that's not how it works.
Um, when we think about how yourclients feel in each of the
stages, they actually all prettymuch feel the same way.
There's the same concerns orissues or wonderings they have
as they move through each stage.
Your relationship building touchpoints, if you just speak to
those emotions, you're usuallydoing enough.
(12:50):
It's not like you're trying tolayer on now, I got to go have
coffee with everybody because Idon't, I don't have time for
that.
And most people don't, right?
I don't care how lovely I am.
Nobody wants to have to havecoffee with me all the time,
right?
And so it's really looking atunderstanding when we look at
how your clients are feeling andthen we meet them where they
are, that allows an easier wayfor us to put in relationship
(13:12):
touch points that really candrive home the, hey, I see you
and I know like you're not inthis alone kind of thing.
And every industry, you know,and businesses kind of have
their own way of looking atthat.
Um, in terms of like where theyhave issue points and new active
or alumni, it's really importantfor people to kind of to keep in
mind because I mean, I alwaystell folks, don't overcomplicate
(13:33):
this, but don't underwhelm iteither by just being like, let
me send them a card andeverything will be great.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So are there feelings that weshould be working towards?
Like, is there a specific way wewant our new clients to feel
that we want our active clientsto feel or our alumni clients in
order to get referrals?
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
Yeah.
So we call this the ideal clientreaction.
And in I think it's chapterthree in the book, I actually
walk through how to completethis exercise.
It's also in the workbook, but Iwalk through how to complete the
exercise because how I want myclients to react may be
different from how you want themto react, how you want your
clients to react.
Now, let's be honest, there'sonly so many adjectives and
(14:13):
descriptives to go along.
So there's a lot of crossover.
I see a lot of similar typeideal client reaction scripts,
but that's just because I get tosee them all, right?
Nobody else sees as many as Ido.
And so the truth is it's it'swhatever works for you.
It's whatever is important toyou, right?
And so, you know, we in the bookwe talk, I talk about a business
(14:34):
coach and I talk about a CPA.
And I share both of their idealclient reaction scripts as they
went through the exercise withme as clients of mine, and
theirs are different.
But if you read them, like thewords are different, but the
sentiment's usually the same,right?
And so I just tell folks, trynot like you can use cared for.
I know for a long, long, long,long time I used care for, but I
always tell folks, I'm like, tryto use different words, right?
(14:57):
Than just I want them to feelcared for.
Like really kind of think abouthow do I want my clients to
react?
Right.
If the work you do can create awow factor, then maybe that's
part of your ideal clientreaction.
That's how you want your clientsto react.
If what you do is difficult andit's gonna be hard and it's
gonna be emotionally likegut-wrenching on your clients,
(15:17):
then maybe feeling like they'recarried, right?
Or like that they have like youhave their back, that may be how
you want them to feel.
If your clients work with youand they're like, I have no idea
what I'm doing, and I'm reallygonna just trust you that you
can get me to where I need togo, right?
Then maybe it's that idea tobeing seen and to understanding
that.
Because we we all have thefeelings that we want our
(15:40):
clients to have.
And if you are intentional aboutidentifying what those feelings
are, what those reactions are,then you can build them, like
when you build out yourrelationship-based touch points,
you can build them with that inmind.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Mm-hmm.
That makes sense.
So you mentioned like sendingcards, you mentioned having
coffee as maybe the thing likewe're not going to do with every
single client, depending on howmany we have.
Um, what are some other ways orexamples of those relationship
touch points?
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Yeah.
So relationship-based touchpoints are the best ones when
they can be like you're notactually having to do all the
work every single timeindividually.
So I want the business ownerslistening to this episode to
think, okay, this is somethingthat I'm gonna like at this
moment, when a client reachesthis step in this new stage or
this point and this activestage, we're gonna deliver X, Y,
(16:29):
Z touch point.
And it's already like, you know,we already know what it is, we
already know what the languageis, we already know what we're
gonna do.
So it's not like being like, oh,it's been 30 days, let me go
take my client to coffee.
Very rarely does coffee meetingsget included into that client
experience, those relationshipbuilding touch points.
So let me, I think this isprobably best answered with an
example.
Um, so let me give you anexample.
(16:50):
So when I was a productivitycoach, so when I started my
after my first business failedand I went back to corporate, I
got certified as a productivitycoach.
Um, I left corporate, started aproductivity coaching practice,
and I was like, hey, don't wantto fail again.
So let's try lots of differentthings and be open to doing
different things.
Um, and one of the things Istarted doing was writing a
(17:12):
journey card to my clients whenthey started first working with
me.
Here's the thing (17:17):
some people write welcome cards to their
clients and they're in the newstage, right?
They're like, hey, thank you somuch for becoming a client.
We're so excited to work withyou.
If you think about thatlanguage, it's actually really
about you.
It's like, oh, we're so excitedthat you're now our client and
we get to work with you.
And underlying means that we aremaking money, right?
I mean, that's like kind of howit's looked at.
(17:38):
And so I always tell folks,like, pay attention to what
they're feeling in the newclient stage.
We refer to this as the quietvoice.
It's all the things your clientis thinking that they're not
saying, but it's running throughtheir heads.
It's concerns, it's assumptions,it's a little bit of buyer's
remorse, right?
It's the excitement.
It's all the things.
(17:58):
It's like the how's this gonnago?
I'm not sure.
They're starting to makeassumptions, right?
The idea here is in that newclient stage, recognize what is
the quiet voice that your clientsays.
And here's the thing clients areall saying the same thing
because of, and you should beable to figure this out.
You may want to ask them if youdon't know, but most people have
(18:20):
a sense of, hey, when someonesigns on the dotted line to work
with me, there's some typicalthings they're probably gonna
feel.
As a as a productivity andbusiness coach, I knew, and I
didn't know with the very firstclient, but after you work with
a couple clients, you kind ofstart figuring this stuff out,
right?
I know when somebody says yes tohiring me, they're gonna go
through a moment of like, ohgosh, she's gonna make me do
(18:41):
work and I'm gonna have tochange and I'm gonna have to be
different, and I'm gonna have towant to do this, and I'm gonna
have to show up and do the work.
Like there's this moment of Ijust thought I just paid for
work, right?
I knew that was.
Why did I think this was a goodidea?
Yeah, like, why am I doing thisagain?
So I know there's that moment,right?
There's the moment of they hadthe pain, the pain spoke loud
(19:01):
enough.
They said yes to hiring me, andthen like logically, they're
like, ah, this is a lot of work.
And so my card that I sent themwasn't a hey, I'm so excited to
work with you card, which is awhat I call the normal typical
welcome card.
It was a journey card.
And it was also my relationshipbuilding touch point and the new
stage.
But that card said specifically,I'm so excited we get to work
(19:22):
together.
I know working with me and goingon this journey together is
going to stretch you and it'sgonna challenge you.
But you are not alone.
I'm your co-pilot and I've gotyour back.
And so that card, it was kind oflike when you read a card like
that and you've never received acard like that from any other
service provider that you'veever hired, right?
(19:43):
You're probably like in thatmoment, you're like, oh, it's
like she's in my head.
She knows this is the thingsthat I'm worried about, right?
Those are the type ofrelationship building touch
points that I'm talking about.
That doesn't mean when you'redone working with someone, you
can't do like the fun,celebratory confetti, champagne,
whatever.
Like there's different touchpoints you can do throughout
different moments and you canmake them work for you and make
(20:04):
them fit your brand and fit yourpersonality as long as they're
speaking to what your client isfeeling.
Once the quiet voice ends andyour client exits the new stage,
then they enter what we call theactive stage.
And the active stage is myfavorite because it's the
easiest place to make an impactwhere most people actually get
(20:24):
lazy.
But it is what we call the lullof complacency.
You're behind the scenes,typically doing all the work,
and the client's just showing upfor a few meetings or a few
calls, depending on what type ofwork you do.
And sometimes they're notshowing up for anything, they're
just waiting for you to deliverthe website you're going to
build for them or whatever itis.
And so you're lulled intocomplacency of what it looks
(20:45):
like to be your client and justfiguring out like if your client
plays the waiting game, right?
That you've got for them whatyou need.
Now you're doing the work behindthe scenes and they don't see
it.
You need to acknowledge thewaiting game just like you
acknowledge the quiet voice inthe news stage.
And so it's paying attention tohow your client feels through
(21:05):
the moments of them working withyou and being like, what can I
do here that'll help my clientknow that hey, I got you.
I know, I know things arehappening and I see you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Yeah, that's really smart.
I love your perspective on allof this.
I'm actually, I always takenotes, but I'm like actually
taking notes for my ownbusiness.
Like, maybe you might want totry this.
Um, so it's very cool.
I love it.
Um, okay, so we've talked aboutthe client experience.
We've talked about kind of thethree different stages, thinking
about how you want them to feelat those stages, um, the formula
(21:38):
for the client experience.
So, with this generalunderstanding, I mean, I know
there's a lot more to it, butthey're gonna have to buy your
book if they want to know all ofit.
Um and I can say that.
Uh, so how do we like what ifwe're listening to this, we're
like, this all sounds great.
I'll do all of those things.
How do we like is theresomething specific we need to do
(22:00):
to make the referrals happenfrom there?
Or do we just make sure theyhave a great client experience
and the referrals happenorganically?
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Yeah.
So no, you have to bridge thegap to referrals.
They're not gonna magically showup, right?
And so this is what I tellfolks.
It's like, so most people dogreat work and they're not
getting referrals.
So then we start layering inthese relationship-based touch
points.
And I always say that may getyou some referrals, but it's
probably not gonna get what youmay be able to uncover.
But you can't bridge the gap toreferrals until you have both
(22:31):
the work and therelationship-based touch points.
And in some cases, because therelationship-based touch points
is the best opportunity todeliver on the referral-seed
language, the language I wantyou to use when you're
percolating the idea ofreferrals.
But when we look at referrals ina business, we're looking at
three main ways that referralsare going to come in.
(22:53):
The first is by the rightpeople.
It's just you don't know whothese people are until they
decide to work with you and thenthey start referring you.
And you're like, I didn't doanything.
Like, I'm pretty sure I didn'tdo anything.
I like if you don't haveeverything in place, it makes
more sense.
You're like, usually thesepeople refer very early.
They sign up and then all of asudden they're referring other
people to sign up, and you'relike, what's happening?
(23:13):
Right.
Not every client that comes towork with you is going to be a
right person.
And you can't identify them inadvance.
They have to reveal themselves.
They have to just show up and belike, hello, here I am, and
here's the referral.
Um, the right people, you needto know what to do if and when
you have the right peoplereferring you.
And if you have a strategy likewe talked about earlier, to take
(23:34):
care of existing referralsources, people who are
referring you, they're gonnadrop right into that plan,
right?
Because you're like, oh, thisperson referred me, write my
thank you note, drop them intothis plan, they'll get the rest
of how I create kind of likethat referral gratitude
experience, right?
But when you're thinking aboutthis from the perspective of,
okay, so right people, if wedon't have a strategy for them
(23:55):
that's within the clientexperience, they move to a
separate bucket, right?
They keep being a client, butthey move to a separate labeling
bucket and they get a differentexperience.
The right people happen and it'samazing.
Count your blessings.
But where we build strategiesaround or tactics around, I
should say, is what we call thesecond one is referral hot
zones.
And the third one is what wecall referral moments.
And that is referral hot zonesare where you're more likely to
(24:19):
get referrals in your business.
Maybe it's when people are inthat new stage and there's all
that anticipation.
Maybe when they're in the activestage and they've gotten early
results, like they didn't expectto have something this soon and
now they're looking at it andthis is exciting.
Or maybe it's when you knowthey're finishing up working
with you and their results havebeen achieved and they're done,
or maybe they're in the alumnistage and now it's been six
(24:39):
months since they were a clientand they've referred, right?
We look for patterns withinbusinesses that would reveal
referral hot zones.
And that doesn't mean everybodyhas multiple hot zones.
It depends on how many referralsyou get from clients.
Um, and it depends on when thoseclients in their own, in your
client risk experience arereferring other people.
(25:02):
So there is some data diving wehave to do to establish do you
have referral hot zones and whatare they?
And if you have them, then wewant to put a relationship
building touch point with theright language in those moments
because we're anticipating it'sa higher likelihood.
Again, not everybody's gonnahave them, right?
But it's definitely one to lookat.
And in the book, I give likesome common ones and then some
(25:22):
things to do.
If you don't have them or you'rejust, let's be honest, not gonna
do the work to figure out whereyour referral hot zones are.
There are some ones that you canget started with.
The third one, though, the thirdplace of where we find referrals
is what we call it's just theright moments.
Your clients are just gonna saysomething.
And it's like, I want to beinside your head and I want you
to be like, oh, Stacy said I'msupposed to, like Stacy told me
(25:45):
to say this when this happens,right?
That's really, really important.
Um, so like an easy one is if aclient is referred to you,
because not every client will bereferred, but if a client is
referred to you, like there areright moments throughout the
time that you're working withthat client where you should
remind them that they'rereferred to you.
Right.
So many people think thereferral source for referring
(26:07):
the client, but they don'tremind the client through the
client experience that, hey, youwere referred.
So some right moments are like,hey, when they start working
with you, it's really easy to belike, hey, Melissa, I am so glad
that Shauna Lynn referred you tome and that we have this
opportunity to work together.
Like just that mention is aneasy way to plant a referral
(26:28):
seed and start percolating theidea of generating referrals.
So what I teach when you'rebridging the gap to referrals
isn't complicated, but it doeswork better if you know how your
business is performing from theperspective of identifying the
right people, identifying if youhave referral hot zones, or just
borrowing some, you know,general ones until you figure it
out, and then understanding whatto say in those right moments.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Yeah, that's really good.
I love that.
So if people want to know moreabout you or they want to know
more about how to work with you,or they just want to get the
book, which is amazing, thereferrable client experience.
What's the best way for them todo that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Yeah, well, the new book, referral client
experience, plus the other book,Generating Business Referrals
Without Asking, those are allavailable wherever you like to
purchase books.
So if you want to go to a localbookstore, they can order it for
you.
If you want to go to Amazon, youcan do that too.
So they're available for salewherever you want to buy books.
The home base to learn moreabout me, to find out about my
podcast, um, roadmap referrals,to get some resources, to kind
(27:30):
of just dive into my story andunderstand what I do and how I
work with clients is my website.
And that home base isstacybrownrandall.com.
And I know you'll probably putthat link in the show notes page
so people don't spell Stacywrong because that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
I'm sure it does.
I'm sure it does.
I feel like my name is verysimple, and there's about 94
different ways that people findto spell it.
So, yes, I will put the link forthat in the show notes.
I'll put the name of your bookin the show notes so that people
can go grab that when they wantto.
Um, you mentioned that there's aworkbook that goes with it,
right?
Is that also on Amazon and allthe places?
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Um, depending on when this episode goes live, it
may or may not be.
Um, but as soon as it'savailable, the workbook comes
out, it comes out about a monthafter the book.
So, or maybe a little bit laterthan that.
Um, but the workbook willeventually be available.
There's also a very speciallink.
It's a secret link inside thebook.
So don't link to this one onyour show notes page where
(28:24):
people can go to get moreresources.
Um, and so that helps them kindof go deeper with what they're
learning in the book as well.
So I always tell folks if you'reif you're gonna buy the book and
do the work, um, whether you buythe workbook or not, get the
free resources because there'smore examples and ideas and
things like that as well.
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
Okay, amazing.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for being aguest, Stacey.
This has been really, reallyhelpful.
And I feel like I'm pretty like,I'm pretty good with referrals
and you know, thinking aboutrelationships and how do we
build relationships so that itexpands our business through,
you know, whether it'snetworking or client
relationships or things likethat.
(29:02):
But this has definitely given mea lot of things to think about.
So thank you so much for comingon and sharing with us.
Awesome.
Thank you for having me.
Hello, Stacey.
Welcome to the Powerful WomenRising Podcast.
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Thanks for having me, Melissa.
It's great to be here.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Yeah, so good to have you.
So we are talking about your,well, we're talking about a lot
of things, but you have a newbook out, which I'm super
excited for you.
Um, excited to talk about that alittle bit and share that with
people.
And, you know, I reached out toyou specifically after I heard
you on another podcast because Ijust loved everything that you
were talking about in terms ofbuilding business through
(00:30):
referrals.
But, you know, doing it, thephrase I use is being a salesy
weirdo.
So how do we build our businessthrough referrals without being
a salesy weirdo?
And so I wanted you to come onand talk about that and share
that with people.
But before we dive into all ofthat, tell us just a little bit
about you and about what you do.
SPEAKER_01 (00:48):
Yeah.
So thanks again.
I am excited to be here.
Always love the opportunity tobust some myths when it comes to
what people think is true aboutreferrals.
Um, and I'm excited for us todive into that.
So I have been working withsmall business owners for the
past 12 years, um, showing themthat you can generate referrals
without asking, withoutmanipulation and without having
(01:10):
to pay for them or network allthe time.
Um, but it's really been, Iwould say, you know, people
always ask me, like, how did youstart this?
Like, how'd you just decide toteach referrals differently?
And I'm like, because I had to,because my first business
failed.
I was starting my secondbusiness and I needed referrals
to work for me.
(01:30):
Um, so that really is whatstarted my journey.
And now I've been doing this for12 years.
It's crazy to think, like, Ihave my I have three kids, and
two of them are seniors in highschool, and I have a sophomore.
And I'm like, wow, when I wasstarting this, like they were
still, they were like inelementary school.
I mean, it makes me feel quiteold, actually.
Um, but you know, referrals areevergreen.
We need them good economy, badeconomy, global pandemic,
(01:53):
unrest.
It doesn't matter.
Referrals are always a way thatuh business owners are gonna
want to generate their clients.
And so it's nice to have kind ofa solution that people can come
to regardless of what's going onin the world.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
One of the things that I reallylove about your book and about
the way that you talk aboutreferrals is I think for so many
people, we think of referrals aslike, okay, I'm gonna be in a
referrals group, right?
Like I'm gonna join this groupwhere Joe is a plumber.
And so Joe the plumber is gonnatell everyone he knows to hire
me, and I'm gonna tell everyonewho needs a plumber to hire Joe
(02:28):
the plumber.
We've never worked with eachother before.
I don't even know if Joe knowshow to be a plumber, but he's in
my leads group.
So I'm gonna refer him and he'sgonna refer me, and that's how
we're gonna build our businessbased on referrals.
And there's really like not onlyis there a totally different way
to do referrals, but there'salso a lot more to it, you know,
like, and that's why I like whatyou talk about in terms of the
(02:50):
referrable client experience,because it's not just about I'm
gonna refer you and you're gonnarefer me.
So let's start kind of at thebeginning of uh, you know, kind
of what the basis of your bookis and tell us what it means to
have a referable clientexperience.
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
Yeah, I'm glad you kind of used that example
because it's really importantfor people to understand that
the way I teach referrals isthat referrals live in an
ecosystem within your business.
They are probably hiding in lotsof different places and could be
uncovered.
You just don't know where tolook.
You don't know what, like whattype of plans you need versus
what type of tactics you needand where things are.
(03:30):
So, you know, it's interesting.
Um, my first book.
So the book we're talking about,referral client experience, is
actually my second book.
When my first book came out,generating business referrals
without asking, people would sayto me, like, okay, great.
So I'll like follow your fivesteps and then I'll get
referrals and this will begreat, and I'll have the success
your clients are having, like,and I'll know everything I need
to know.
And I was like, oh, no, wait.
That's based on one strategy.
(03:53):
One of the foundational, I thinkI teach three foundational
strategies that every businessshould have.
Now, there are 17 otherstrategies that go along with
that, but they're situationaland they're next level, and you
don't always need them.
But everybody needs thefoundational three.
And so that really startedpushing me to be like, all
right, I probably need to writeanother book so people can
understand where things fit.
(04:14):
So the way I kind of talk aboutwhere the referral client
experience fits in into yourreferrals ecosystem is think
about referrals coming fromthree groups of people, right?
The first group of people, it'susually your low-hanging fruit,
it's usually the easiest groupto get more referrals from, are
the people who are alreadyreferring you.
So if you've been in businessmore than a year, you probably
have received some referrals.
(04:35):
Maybe not a ton, or maybe youhave gotten a ton, but you
probably have the longer you'rein business, you probably have
people who've referred clientsor prospects that didn't become
clients to you.
That's one group.
Those are what we call existingreferral sources.
Referral sources is just theterm we use to describe people
who refer you, right?
So that's existing referralsources mean they've done it
(04:55):
before.
Then you have the potentialreferral sources.
Those are the people that havenever referred you and you
really want them to, and youwish they would.
You want them to become anexisting referral source.
Um, but how you cultivatesomebody who's never referred
you is very different than howyou cultivate somebody who has
referred you.
And so those are two differentgroups of people.
(05:16):
We've got our existing referralsources and we've got our
potential referral sources.
And the third group are ourclients within our client
experience.
Now, that's not to say clientsdon't land on either of the two
other groups, but when we'reworking with a client, we want
to have a referral clientexperience that is kind of
always in operation mode, right?
It's this repeatable clientexperience that's happening for
(05:37):
everybody that's reallypercolating the idea of
referrals throughout the time ofsomebody working with you.
And so that doesn't mean everyclient will refer just because
they go through your referralclient experience, but it's
definitely going to catch thosethat would and will.
Um they just need a little bitof help in that area.
And so with the referable clientexperience, I always tell my
(05:57):
clients, it's like, okay, weknow people who've referred you,
people you want to refer you,and then your clients.
Those are the three main groups.
And make sure you have, ofcourse, plans in place for each
of those three groups.
The referable client experienceis kind of the one that's almost
it's as close as you can get toset it and forget it.
Nothing in business is set itand forget it.
But it's like build it and thenget it executed on implemented,
(06:20):
and you don't really have tochange it much.
Um, some of the other ones,there's just more involved with
those strategies.
And when we think about ourclient experience, it really is
just defined as how our clientsfeel when they're working with
us.
That's the definition of clientexperience, is how your clients
feel when they're working withyou.
(06:40):
What I want people to do is payattention to what you have to do
on top of that to make yourselfactually referable.
And there is more than justdoing great work.
SPEAKER_00 (06:50):
Yeah, I was gonna ask that because I'm thinking
about, you know, like how yourclients feel when working with
you.
So that obviously has somethingto do with when they're coming
into your sphere, right?
Like how they're coming in, howyou're converting them, uh,
their experience with onboardingand as your client or receiving
(07:12):
your products or whatever it is,um, their experience with
offboarding, if that is how yourfunnel works or that's how your
client experience works.
But is it more than just likecustomer service and doing a
good job and making sure yourclient gets what they came for
and is happy with what youdelivered?
SPEAKER_01 (07:31):
Yeah, it's customer service is a part of your client
experience, but it is not yourclient experience.
And people always like, oh yeah,when there's a problem, like we
solve it with our customerservice, or I'm the business
owner and I answer the question.
So that's the customer service.
And I'm like, that's a piece,right?
Yeah, that's a tiny piece of theoverall client experience.
And what people don't recognizeis that the client experience,
(07:55):
when we say it's how yourclients feel, the feelings
change.
As they move through workingwith you, what we call the the
um the stages that a client goesthrough.
We have three different stagesthat your clients will go
through.
It's new, active, and alumni.
And as your clients move throughthose stages, they're feeling
different things.
(08:15):
And so it's really important tolike drill down and understand
like, okay, do we need to knowhow to solve problems when
things happen?
Yes, right.
That's very, very important.
But it's also understanding thatas a client works with us, their
feelings are changes and we needto meet them where they are.
And you know, I always there's athere's a question I ask it in
the book, I ask it in a lot ofmy presentations.
Um, it's really funny when I doit on virtual presentations and
(08:38):
I'll be like, okay, do youbelieve you do great work?
And Melissa, as you can imagine,like the chat blows up with yes,
yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,right.
Like, oh yeah, of course I do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My clients love me.
And then my next question is, isokay, but are you drowning in
referrals?
And then the response is no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no.
Right.
Like, and people sometimes thinkthey're like, oh my gosh, I
(08:59):
think I do great work.
I've got great testimonials.
My clients tell me that theylove me.
What am I doing wrong?
And I'm always like, you're notdoing anything wrong.
You just don't know what ittakes to be able to be referral
and then bridge the gap toreferrals from there.
And it are, they are differentthings we have to do because we
have been sold, you know, we'vebeen sold a bag of lies, which
(09:21):
says do great work equalsreferrals.
And we're all like, but wait, itdoesn't.
And so where do we have to go tolike close that gap?
And I think that's the piecethat people are missing is that
it's more than the great workyou do.
Um, and we do the way that Iteach it to my clients is we
define it as a formula, right?
So your referral clientexperience, making how your
(09:42):
clients feel is defined by thework you do and the relationship
you build.
So it's like the work you do,the outputs, right?
Outreaches, touch points is whatwe call them, right?
So the work touch points you do,and that goes along with the
relationship building touchpoints you're also doing.
And so most people are like,wait, I do a client appreciation
party.
(10:02):
Is it does that count?
I'm like, yes.
But only if you're just doingone and a holiday card, it's
probably not enough.
Because we want about 20%, maybe30%, depending on what you do,
to match, right?
Along with your work touchpoints.
So if you're doing like ahundred work touch points,
there's probably gonna be about20 of them.
And some of them are tiny andsome of them can be bigger, and
everybody kind of gets tocustomize their own based on
(10:24):
what works for them.
But it's this idea that if ifyou really want to know where a
client stands in terms of howthey feel, you have to show them
that you see them more than justthe work you're doing for them.
And that feels like more workfor us as the business owner,
but and it is, right?
Not going to sugarcoat it, butonce you have that in place, it
(10:45):
makes so much more sense interms of how you take care of
your clients.
SPEAKER_00 (10:49):
Yeah.
So I do want to talk about howwe bridge that gap between the
customer experience and actuallylike getting the referrals, but
I want to back up a little bitfirst because you talked about
like how clients feel in thosethree different stages, right?
When they're new clients,they're active clients, they're
alumni clients.
Does it matter really?
This sounds terrible.
Does it matter how they feel?
(11:10):
I don't mean it like that, butin terms of referrals, like
should we be concerned about howthey feel as new clients and
active clients?
Or is our bigger concern howthey feel as alumni?
Because that's likely whenthey're going to be referring
us.
SPEAKER_01 (11:25):
So that is actually answered by when people are more
likely to refer you.
And that is, I think, a misnomerthat a lot of people have is
they believe they know in whatstage they're more likely to get
referrals.
So if you were to like I eventalk about this in the book,
like if you were to say, Hey,Zancy, when you get most
referrals, I'm like, oh, it'susually like in the active
stage, right?
(11:45):
Like when we're doing work andpeople are starting to see
results and things arehappening, but it's, you know,
it's before they actuallygraduate.
And then I did the data analysisthat I teach in the book.
And I was like, oh, well, that'snot completely true.
Actually, there's a strongportion of my referrals that
come when they're in the newstage.
And so, like that, that had me,this was a number of years ago,
(12:06):
but that had me like shift,like, oh, I need to approach my
new stage differently.
So, you know, and it's notalways about, I think when
people hear me say relationshipbuilding touch points and
bridging the gap to referrals,they feel like there's some kind
of prescriptive answer.
Like you're gonna have to havecoffee with every client in the
first 30 days, and then you haveto say these 17 things.
(12:28):
Like, that's not how it works.
Um, when we think about how yourclients feel in each of the
stages, they actually all prettymuch feel the same way.
There's the same concerns orissues or wonderings they have
as they move through each stage.
Your relationship building touchpoints, if you just speak to
those emotions, you're usuallydoing enough.
(12:50):
It's not like you're trying tolayer on now, I got to go have
coffee with everybody because Idon't, I don't have time for
that.
And most people don't, right?
I don't care how lovely I am.
Nobody wants to have to havecoffee with me all the time,
right?
And so it's really looking atunderstanding when we look at
how your clients are feeling andthen we meet them where they
are, that allows an easier wayfor us to put in relationship
(13:12):
touch points that really candrive home the, hey, I see you
and I know like you're not inthis alone kind of thing.
And every industry, you know,and businesses kind of have
their own way of looking atthat.
Um, in terms of like where theyhave issue points and new active
or alumni, it's really importantfor people to kind of to keep in
mind because I mean, I alwaystell folks, don't overcomplicate
(13:33):
this, but don't underwhelm iteither by just being like, let
me send them a card andeverything will be great.
SPEAKER_00 (13:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So are there feelings that weshould be working towards?
Like, is there a specific way wewant our new clients to feel
that we want our active clientsto feel or our alumni clients in
order to get referrals?
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
Yeah.
So we call this the ideal clientreaction.
And in I think it's chapterthree in the book, I actually
walk through how to completethis exercise.
It's also in the workbook, but Iwalk through how to complete the
exercise because how I want myclients to react may be
different from how you want themto react, how you want your
clients to react.
Now, let's be honest, there'sonly so many adjectives and
(14:13):
descriptives to go along.
So there's a lot of crossover.
I see a lot of similar typeideal client reaction scripts,
but that's just because I get tosee them all, right?
Nobody else sees as many as Ido.
And so the truth is it's it'swhatever works for you.
It's whatever is important toyou, right?
And so, you know, we in the bookwe talk, I talk about a business
(14:34):
coach and I talk about a CPA.
And I share both of their idealclient reaction scripts as they
went through the exercise withme as clients of mine, and
theirs are different.
But if you read them, like thewords are different, but the
sentiment's usually the same,right?
And so I just tell folks, trynot like you can use cared for.
I know for a long, long, long,long time I used care for, but I
always tell folks, I'm like, tryto use different words, right?
(14:57):
Than just I want them to feelcared for.
Like really kind of think abouthow do I want my clients to
react?
Right.
If the work you do can create awow factor, then maybe that's
part of your ideal clientreaction.
That's how you want your clientsto react.
If what you do is difficult andit's gonna be hard and it's
gonna be emotionally likegut-wrenching on your clients,
(15:17):
then maybe feeling like they'recarried, right?
Or like that they have like youhave their back, that may be how
you want them to feel.
If your clients work with youand they're like, I have no idea
what I'm doing, and I'm reallygonna just trust you that you
can get me to where I need togo, right?
Then maybe it's that idea tobeing seen and to understanding
that.
Because we we all have thefeelings that we want our
(15:40):
clients to have.
And if you are intentional aboutidentifying what those feelings
are, what those reactions are,then you can build them, like
when you build out yourrelationship-based touch points,
you can build them with that inmind.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Mm-hmm.
That makes sense.
So you mentioned like sendingcards, you mentioned having
coffee as maybe the thing likewe're not going to do with every
single client, depending on howmany we have.
Um, what are some other ways orexamples of those relationship
touch points?
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Yeah.
So relationship-based touchpoints are the best ones when
they can be like you're notactually having to do all the
work every single timeindividually.
So I want the business ownerslistening to this episode to
think, okay, this is somethingthat I'm gonna like at this
moment, when a client reachesthis step in this new stage or
this point and this activestage, we're gonna deliver X, Y,
(16:29):
Z touch point.
And it's already like, you know,we already know what it is, we
already know what the languageis, we already know what we're
gonna do.
So it's not like being like, oh,it's been 30 days, let me go
take my client to coffee.
Very rarely does coffee meetingsget included into that client
experience, those relationshipbuilding touch points.
So let me, I think this isprobably best answered with an
example.
Um, so let me give you anexample.
(16:50):
So when I was a productivitycoach, so when I started my
after my first business failedand I went back to corporate, I
got certified as a productivitycoach.
Um, I left corporate, started aproductivity coaching practice,
and I was like, hey, don't wantto fail again.
So let's try lots of differentthings and be open to doing
different things.
Um, and one of the things Istarted doing was writing a
(17:12):
journey card to my clients whenthey started first working with
me.
Here's the thing (17:17):
some people write welcome cards to their
clients and they're in the newstage, right?
They're like, hey, thank you somuch for becoming a client.
We're so excited to work withyou.
If you think about thatlanguage, it's actually really
about you.
It's like, oh, we're so excitedthat you're now our client and
we get to work with you.
And underlying means that we aremaking money, right?
I mean, that's like kind of howit's looked at.
(17:38):
And so I always tell folks,like, pay attention to what
they're feeling in the newclient stage.
We refer to this as the quietvoice.
It's all the things your clientis thinking that they're not
saying, but it's running throughtheir heads.
It's concerns, it's assumptions,it's a little bit of buyer's
remorse, right?
It's the excitement.
It's all the things.
(17:58):
It's like the how's this gonnago?
I'm not sure.
They're starting to makeassumptions, right?
The idea here is in that newclient stage, recognize what is
the quiet voice that your clientsays.
And here's the thing clients areall saying the same thing
because of, and you should beable to figure this out.
You may want to ask them if youdon't know, but most people have
(18:20):
a sense of, hey, when someonesigns on the dotted line to work
with me, there's some typicalthings they're probably gonna
feel.
As a as a productivity andbusiness coach, I knew, and I
didn't know with the very firstclient, but after you work with
a couple clients, you kind ofstart figuring this stuff out,
right?
I know when somebody says yes tohiring me, they're gonna go
through a moment of like, ohgosh, she's gonna make me do
(18:41):
work and I'm gonna have tochange and I'm gonna have to be
different, and I'm gonna have towant to do this, and I'm gonna
have to show up and do the work.
Like there's this moment of Ijust thought I just paid for
work, right?
I knew that was.
Why did I think this was a goodidea?
Yeah, like, why am I doing thisagain?
So I know there's that moment,right?
There's the moment of they hadthe pain, the pain spoke loud
(19:01):
enough.
They said yes to hiring me, andthen like logically, they're
like, ah, this is a lot of work.
And so my card that I sent themwasn't a hey, I'm so excited to
work with you card, which is awhat I call the normal typical
welcome card.
It was a journey card.
And it was also my relationshipbuilding touch point and the new
stage.
But that card said specifically,I'm so excited we get to work
(19:22):
together.
I know working with me and goingon this journey together is
going to stretch you and it'sgonna challenge you.
But you are not alone.
I'm your co-pilot and I've gotyour back.
And so that card, it was kind oflike when you read a card like
that and you've never received acard like that from any other
service provider that you'veever hired, right?
(19:43):
You're probably like in thatmoment, you're like, oh, it's
like she's in my head.
She knows this is the thingsthat I'm worried about, right?
Those are the type ofrelationship building touch
points that I'm talking about.
That doesn't mean when you'redone working with someone, you
can't do like the fun,celebratory confetti, champagne,
whatever.
Like there's different touchpoints you can do throughout
different moments and you canmake them work for you and make
(20:04):
them fit your brand and fit yourpersonality as long as they're
speaking to what your client isfeeling.
Once the quiet voice ends andyour client exits the new stage,
then they enter what we call theactive stage.
And the active stage is myfavorite because it's the
easiest place to make an impactwhere most people actually get
(20:24):
lazy.
But it is what we call the lullof complacency.
You're behind the scenes,typically doing all the work,
and the client's just showing upfor a few meetings or a few
calls, depending on what type ofwork you do.
And sometimes they're notshowing up for anything, they're
just waiting for you to deliverthe website you're going to
build for them or whatever itis.
And so you're lulled intocomplacency of what it looks
(20:45):
like to be your client and justfiguring out like if your client
plays the waiting game, right?
That you've got for them whatyou need.
Now you're doing the work behindthe scenes and they don't see
it.
You need to acknowledge thewaiting game just like you
acknowledge the quiet voice inthe news stage.
And so it's paying attention tohow your client feels through
(21:05):
the moments of them working withyou and being like, what can I
do here that'll help my clientknow that hey, I got you.
I know, I know things arehappening and I see you.
SPEAKER_00 (21:15):
Yeah, that's really smart.
I love your perspective on allof this.
I'm actually, I always takenotes, but I'm like actually
taking notes for my ownbusiness.
Like, maybe you might want totry this.
Um, so it's very cool.
I love it.
Um, okay, so we've talked aboutthe client experience.
We've talked about kind of thethree different stages, thinking
about how you want them to feelat those stages, um, the formula
(21:38):
for the client experience.
So, with this generalunderstanding, I mean, I know
there's a lot more to it, butthey're gonna have to buy your
book if they want to know all ofit.
Um and I can say that.
Uh, so how do we like what ifwe're listening to this, we're
like, this all sounds great.
I'll do all of those things.
How do we like is theresomething specific we need to do
(22:00):
to make the referrals happenfrom there?
Or do we just make sure theyhave a great client experience
and the referrals happenorganically?
SPEAKER_01 (22:07):
Yeah.
So no, you have to bridge thegap to referrals.
They're not gonna magically showup, right?
And so this is what I tellfolks.
It's like, so most people dogreat work and they're not
getting referrals.
So then we start layering inthese relationship-based touch
points.
And I always say that may getyou some referrals, but it's
probably not gonna get what youmay be able to uncover.
But you can't bridge the gap toreferrals until you have both
(22:31):
the work and therelationship-based touch points.
And in some cases, because therelationship-based touch points
is the best opportunity todeliver on the referral-seed
language, the language I wantyou to use when you're
percolating the idea ofreferrals.
But when we look at referrals ina business, we're looking at
three main ways that referralsare going to come in.
(22:53):
The first is by the rightpeople.
It's just you don't know whothese people are until they
decide to work with you and thenthey start referring you.
And you're like, I didn't doanything.
Like, I'm pretty sure I didn'tdo anything.
I like if you don't haveeverything in place, it makes
more sense.
You're like, usually thesepeople refer very early.
They sign up and then all of asudden they're referring other
people to sign up, and you'relike, what's happening?
(23:13):
Right.
Not every client that comes towork with you is going to be a
right person.
And you can't identify them inadvance.
They have to reveal themselves.
They have to just show up and belike, hello, here I am, and
here's the referral.
Um, the right people, you needto know what to do if and when
you have the right peoplereferring you.
And if you have a strategy likewe talked about earlier, to take
(23:34):
care of existing referralsources, people who are
referring you, they're gonnadrop right into that plan,
right?
Because you're like, oh, thisperson referred me, write my
thank you note, drop them intothis plan, they'll get the rest
of how I create kind of likethat referral gratitude
experience, right?
But when you're thinking aboutthis from the perspective of,
okay, so right people, if wedon't have a strategy for them
(23:55):
that's within the clientexperience, they move to a
separate bucket, right?
They keep being a client, butthey move to a separate labeling
bucket and they get a differentexperience.
The right people happen and it'samazing.
Count your blessings.
But where we build strategiesaround or tactics around, I
should say, is what we call thesecond one is referral hot
zones.
And the third one is what wecall referral moments.
And that is referral hot zonesare where you're more likely to
(24:19):
get referrals in your business.
Maybe it's when people are inthat new stage and there's all
that anticipation.
Maybe when they're in the activestage and they've gotten early
results, like they didn't expectto have something this soon and
now they're looking at it andthis is exciting.
Or maybe it's when you knowthey're finishing up working
with you and their results havebeen achieved and they're done,
or maybe they're in the alumnistage and now it's been six
(24:39):
months since they were a clientand they've referred, right?
We look for patterns withinbusinesses that would reveal
referral hot zones.
And that doesn't mean everybodyhas multiple hot zones.
It depends on how many referralsyou get from clients.
Um, and it depends on when thoseclients in their own, in your
client risk experience arereferring other people.
(25:02):
So there is some data diving wehave to do to establish do you
have referral hot zones and whatare they?
And if you have them, then wewant to put a relationship
building touch point with theright language in those moments
because we're anticipating it'sa higher likelihood.
Again, not everybody's gonnahave them, right?
But it's definitely one to lookat.
And in the book, I give likesome common ones and then some
(25:22):
things to do.
If you don't have them or you'rejust, let's be honest, not gonna
do the work to figure out whereyour referral hot zones are.
There are some ones that you canget started with.
The third one, though, the thirdplace of where we find referrals
is what we call it's just theright moments.
Your clients are just gonna saysomething.
And it's like, I want to beinside your head and I want you
to be like, oh, Stacy said I'msupposed to, like Stacy told me
(25:45):
to say this when this happens,right?
That's really, really important.
Um, so like an easy one is if aclient is referred to you,
because not every client will bereferred, but if a client is
referred to you, like there areright moments throughout the
time that you're working withthat client where you should
remind them that they'rereferred to you.
Right.
So many people think thereferral source for referring
(26:07):
the client, but they don'tremind the client through the
client experience that, hey, youwere referred.
So some right moments are like,hey, when they start working
with you, it's really easy to belike, hey, Melissa, I am so glad
that Shauna Lynn referred you tome and that we have this
opportunity to work together.
Like just that mention is aneasy way to plant a referral
(26:28):
seed and start percolating theidea of generating referrals.
So what I teach when you'rebridging the gap to referrals
isn't complicated, but it doeswork better if you know how your
business is performing from theperspective of identifying the
right people, identifying if youhave referral hot zones, or just
borrowing some, you know,general ones until you figure it
out, and then understanding whatto say in those right moments.
SPEAKER_00 (26:50):
Yeah, that's really good.
I love that.
So if people want to know moreabout you or they want to know
more about how to work with you,or they just want to get the
book, which is amazing, thereferrable client experience.
What's the best way for them todo that?
SPEAKER_01 (27:06):
Yeah, well, the new book, referral client
experience, plus the other book,Generating Business Referrals
Without Asking, those are allavailable wherever you like to
purchase books.
So if you want to go to a localbookstore, they can order it for
you.
If you want to go to Amazon, youcan do that too.
So they're available for salewherever you want to buy books.
The home base to learn moreabout me, to find out about my
podcast, um, roadmap referrals,to get some resources, to kind
(27:30):
of just dive into my story andunderstand what I do and how I
work with clients is my website.
And that home base isstacybrownrandall.com.
And I know you'll probably putthat link in the show notes page
so people don't spell Stacywrong because that happens.
SPEAKER_00 (27:43):
I'm sure it does.
I'm sure it does.
I feel like my name is verysimple, and there's about 94
different ways that people findto spell it.
So, yes, I will put the link forthat in the show notes.
I'll put the name of your bookin the show notes so that people
can go grab that when they wantto.
Um, you mentioned that there's aworkbook that goes with it,
right?
Is that also on Amazon and allthe places?
SPEAKER_01 (28:02):
Um, depending on when this episode goes live, it
may or may not be.
Um, but as soon as it'savailable, the workbook comes
out, it comes out about a monthafter the book.
So, or maybe a little bit laterthan that.
Um, but the workbook willeventually be available.
There's also a very speciallink.
It's a secret link inside thebook.
So don't link to this one onyour show notes page where
(28:24):
people can go to get moreresources.
Um, and so that helps them kindof go deeper with what they're
learning in the book as well.
So I always tell folks if you'reif you're gonna buy the book and
do the work, um, whether you buythe workbook or not, get the
free resources because there'smore examples and ideas and
things like that as well.
SPEAKER_00 (28:41):
Okay, amazing.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for being aguest, Stacey.
This has been really, reallyhelpful.
And I feel like I'm pretty like,I'm pretty good with referrals
and you know, thinking aboutrelationships and how do we
build relationships so that itexpands our business through,
you know, whether it'snetworking or client
relationships or things likethat.
(29:02):
But this has definitely given mea lot of things to think about.
So thank you so much for comingon and sharing with us.
Awesome.
Thank you for having me.
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